April 29, 2026 • 25 mins
Scaling globally is exhilarating right up until the “how fast can we hire” question meets reality. A new client award or a winning bid can force a rapid ramp in a country where you have no entity, no local payroll, and no clear view of employment law. That’s when opportunity turns into internal panic, and the clock starts ticking on delivery dates, revenue, and credibility.
We sit down with Rebecca Croucher, Chief Growth Officer at Atlas, to map the real path from plan to headcount. We talk through what it takes to open a new country the traditional way, including legal entity setup timelines that can stretch from weeks to 12 to 18 months, plus the added layers of local contracts, statutory benefits, insurance requirements, pensions, and employer liability. Then we contrast that with the employer of record model and why companies use EOR services to hire quickly and stay compliant while they validate a market.
We also dig into the details that most global expansion plans miss: visa delays that can stall a build by six to nine months, cultural expectations that shape retention and day to day work, and the hard truth that there’s no single compliance tool that replaces local expertise. We close with practical planning guidance for near term market expansion, including role type, industry regulations, and how data protection typically works when teams operate inside your infrastructure.
If you found this helpful, subscribe, share the episode with a teammate planning global hiring, and leave us a review.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Glad to have you here with us again.
Appreciate your viewership.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andanother episode of Supply Chain
Unfiltered.
When you think of uhscalability, you know, it's it's
exciting just to even have areason to have the conversation,
right?
Um, because it's circled aroundgrowth.
(00:30):
And but there's a lot that comeswith it, and there's a lot of
aspects that you have to coverand plan and revisit often.
But there are also thoseinstances when you have uh
opportunity for scale that youdidn't anticipate.
But the the time required toturn it around and get things
(00:53):
going is very very small, verytight.
And it's easy to kind of uh setoff the internal panic button
when it happens.
So we're gonna get into thatconversation and how to best
manage those situations, eventhough they're great
opportunities.
You want to kind of temper thenegativity that can come out of
(01:16):
it.
Uh so with us today we haveRebecca Croucher.
She's Chief Growth Officer forAtlas.
Thanks so much for being here,Rebecca.
Absolutely, thanks for havingme.
Okay.
So um, can you just tell us alittle bit about yourself and
Atlas and kind of give us uhsome bullet points on what are
the benefits of working with anemployer of record?
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Uh, sure.
So a little bit about myself.
I have been um in the um in thehuman capital industry for the
last six years and recentlyjoined Atlas um HXM in January.
And uh we primarily provideemployer of record services.
Um and what that means is if acompany is um growing globally,
(02:03):
wants to hire outside of theirmain country, uh, we will hire
their and we will employ theiremployees.
So they don't have to set up alegal entity and how and with
with how long that takes, whichI'm sure we'll get into.
They don't have to have likeemployment lawyers, um, benefit
specialists, visa specialists ifthey want to bring in somebody
(02:24):
from outside the country.
Um, and so anything that'sneeded to employ somebody
globally in a different country,we provide that service.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
So you basically take a load off.
We take a lot of load off inhuman in human terms.
Okay.
So so uh let's take, forexample, let's say we've got
we're looking at an enterpriseand they're awarded a new client
or projects that requires thisquick turn scalability we
mentioned um at the intro, andwe've got to do it in order to
(02:54):
meet the contract scope.
Um, what are the things that youwould recommend that need to be
addressed first?
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Um, if they're trying to do it themselves or if
they quickly more so want toemploy a service?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
You know what?
If you can give us both andalmost do a quick side-by-side.
Sure.
Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
Well, and this is why, like this is what happens,
and typically why people uhwould they start down the path
of let's say you don't have uman entity set up in uh in
Mexico, for instance.
Okay.
Um, you and typically a clientis or working with somebody and
(03:36):
um and they win a bid, right?
So the first thing they wouldhave to do is establish a legal
entity, and that could take uhone, there's a cost of that.
Okay.
So it could be 10,000, it couldbe 50.
Um, but it's not just likeestablishing the legal entity,
but it's like how long does thattake?
So it might be as little as sixweeks, it might be as long as 12
to 18 months in some countries.
(03:58):
Um, to establish a legal entity,sometimes you have to have real
estate.
You have to be, um, you have toown property.
Sometimes you have to havesomebody that lives in the
country that would be um uhcorporate secretary, uh director
for that company.
So there's a lot of requirementsin each in each country, there's
(04:19):
a lot of requirements that goeswith setting up a business.
So it's the timing, it's therequirements, and it's the cost.
And again, that's just to set upyour legal entity.
That's not even to start hiringpeople yet.
So then once you uh if you haveyour legal entity set up, um,
then you have to construct yourum employment agreements.
(04:40):
And so you need basically like aum employer employment lawyer to
ensure that you're meeting theregulations of that country in
the employment agreement.
Um, then you also need to knowum anything that goes along like
what kind of insurance, what arethe statutory insurances that
(05:00):
you have to cover for thatemployee?
Um, what does the employer haveto cover?
And then what are the employees'rights from a um vacation
perspective for holidays, um,for their own time off?
So there's a lot that goes intoum the employment law side of
it, and then the HR side of it,and then same thing with
(05:23):
benefits.
So does the country have um amandatory or do they does the
country provide that, which theemployer would have to pay for
insurance?
Is there optional insurance thatthe employee can elect to have
as well?
And then there's 401k, which wehave in the US, but a lot of
countries have pensions thathave to be funded.
Um, and then you have to knowlike what's mandatory, what's
(05:44):
optional.
So there's about 10 differentcomponents that we just covered
that are required when you aretrying to set up business and
just operate in a country.
So there's a lot that goes intothat.
Um, there's a lot of time,there's a lot of cost, and then
there's a lot of risk andliability that you have to
understand when you are goinginto a country, um, especially
(06:05):
around employment law.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Wow.
I I I said a lot.
Yeah, I've been sitting here,it's like my chest is getting
tight.
So I think that's what I thinkthat's what happens.
Yeah, definitely.
Okay, so um, so based on all thethings that you just mentioned,
and can you kind of pull fromsome of your own experiences?
You don't have to call outspecific clients.
(06:28):
I wouldn't ask you to do that.
But are there specificchallenges that that come to
mind that you've already beenthrough with companies and and
how how would we best distillthe right information, um, you
know, prioritize the decisionsto help remove that that panic,
that chaos, and at the same timemaintain the efficiency and the
(06:52):
cost savings we're alwayslooking for, even when you're
opening up these new territoriesand having to staff up.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Um the I think the biggest thing when somebody's
trying to do this is to first uhunderstand the time it's gonna
take, because that is typicallywhat people turn to us when they
realize how long it's gonna taketo for them to establish just
the entity.
And that's when um if ifsomebody once somebody kind of
(07:22):
starts going down working withsomebody where you need to hire
somebody in a different country,and a lot of times for us, um,
our clients will win a bid andneed to hire people in a
specific country to supporttheir clients.
And so the first recommendationis when you when you are even in
a bidding process or any kind ofuh negotiation to uh win some
type of business or if you'relooking to expand globally, um,
(07:45):
the first thing to do is tounderstand how long it's gonna
take because the timing and whenpeople want to grow fast and
expand quickly globally, that isthe number one thing that that
kills the momentum, is when theyrealize how long it's gonna
take.
Not like the expertise of whatwhat's needed to do, but the
first thing they realize is thatthis is gonna take me a year.
(08:08):
And so, and that, and thatreally that uh that hurts kind
of the the revenue uh growth,the timing of it.
And then a lot of times um theyalso have their backs up against
a wall where there's anopportunity that is um based on
timing as well, that theyrealize that they can't, like
even though they want to bid,now they have to go back to
(08:28):
their clients to say, we can'teven hire people in that country
until we have an entityestablished and it's gonna take
me a long time to get it.
So that's when that that wouldbe like my first recommendation
is when you're looking to expandglobally, um, first is
understanding how long it takesin that country.
And then a quick second, whichthis this might even be this
(08:49):
might even be more um importantthan the first, is really
understanding the employmentlaws in that country, and if you
are ready to either assume therisk or assume the the laws and
regulations that that countryhas around their employees.
Um so as you know, the US um isvery uh employer friendly, and
(09:11):
employees do not have as manyrights as um as they do in other
countries.
And so other countries reallyput employees first, and so
they're guaranteed you know umstatutory vacation.
Um, they can take off for insome countries for a certain
amount of time, um, maternity,paternity leave, very extensive
(09:33):
in some countries, uh, mentalhealth leave, very extensive in
some countries.
So there's a there's a lot ofthings to look at from an
employment um or an employee uhrights and regulations uh that
should be looked at equally tosee if that's a comp country
that's gonna be profitable foryou to go in.
Um and that and if you are gonnaget really the best um value for
(09:57):
the money that you're gonnaspend to employ somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So uh with you mentioning you know the
challenges that come, especiallywhen you are looking at hiring
in other countries and the thedifference in pr how we
prioritize um employer versusemployees.
What uh what do you have youfound is the most common
(10:21):
oversight that uh and and youcan choose the the business of
uh the country of origin for abusiness?
Um what's the biggest oversightthat um that seems seems to
arise when they're when uhbusinesses are making those
decisions on how how we hire orhow we go about um presenting um
(10:46):
uh opportunities for potentialstaff?
And you know, is it a is it acultural issue?
Is it a legal issue?
What what are you finding?
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
That um like um tell me again what you're looking
for.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
So so when businesses want to grow
globally, or let's say they'veidentified a specific market
they would like to enter into,or there's this bid and they
have to act quickly and theyreally, really want it.
Um what do you find is perhapsthe most common oversight that
that company kind of steps on asfar as what they're not
(11:28):
considering when they're lookingto hire staff?
Is it from a culturalperspective or um legal
perspective or something else?
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
So there's two things that um that immediately
come to mind.
Okay.
Um one is when they are whenthey're getting ready to hire.
There's a big difference betweenif they want to hire somebody
that is um a country, you know,country national, somebody that
lives in that country, or ifthey want to bring in people to
that country.
(11:59):
So visa requirements.
So um we've had we have uhcompanies that have come to us
to say we went through all thework to establish an entity and
get everything set up.
And then we realized that wewanted to bring in these teams
and now we can't get visas againfor like six to nine months.
So that's one.
unknown (12:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
And then two is um locally, um, if somebody's
hiring locals, their firstquestion to us is um um, is are
your support services um local?
Do they understand the localculture?
Because in some countries, um,in APAC specifically in the
Middle East, you have to knowthat you have to be of the
(12:39):
culture, you have to understandthe culture in order to make the
work environment palatable forthem to want to work in, um you
have to be part of the culture.
So that's that's a big piece ofit for when companies are trying
to expand, then they need tohave, you know, make sure that
they have when they are hiringtheir HR and their and their
different um folks in operationslike in countries, that those
(13:03):
have to be typically um somebodythat understands the culture
very well and that is part ofthat.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
And in this whole process, um are there specific
uh tools that you use um to helpbusinesses maintain compliance
in all the areas when they'reopening up those new markets?
And do those tools um can theyhelp prevent or support um a
(13:30):
seamless uh prevent issues andsupport a seamless process?
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Uh our our tools uh would be really the we have uh
it's it's for us, it's more theexpertise of the lawyers and the
um the HR personnel, right?
So they have been in theindustry, they understand the
(13:58):
rules and regulations, uh, theyare constantly monitoring them
in each country and in our andlike the support teams sit in
country um and in region.
So um it's not so much a toolbecause it's there is no tool
that is, I mean, I'm surethere's one somewhere, but there
is not a tool that we have or weuse that provides a validated
(14:20):
set of rules and regulations umthat change all the time.
So we have to monitor um, and weuse different resources for
monitoring the different umlegal uh changes that are
happening in each country on adaily, weekly, monthly basis.
So, you know, there's a lot ofthings that are happening
annually, and then there arethings that are just being
(14:41):
pushed out, that are being votedon, that are newly um, you know,
newly newly regulatedindustries, like um crypto,
right?
Brand new industry.
Some countries have not caughtup and added that um under any
type of regulatory requirements.
So as new things roll out, AI isanother example.
(15:02):
So as new things roll out, um,there could be some type of
inclusion of something thataffects employment or company
insurance, liability.
Um, so there are a lot of piecesand moving parts here, but I
would say as far as a tool, Imean, we may we maintain a
number of things internally thatum enables us to push those
(15:24):
changes out to existing clients,alert, you know, prospective
clients uh that are that arecoming on.
Um but that that is really kindof the employer services that
are provided by EORs really umcovers a deep layer of service
that covers um employerliability, um, insurance,
(15:46):
benefits, HR, employment law.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
And uh when you're working with clients and you
know they've got all thatenthusiasm and they're so
excited about uh you know wherethey're headed and what's next,
um, and you want to support themand and carry them through, but
also because you're the expertand you know what the venture is
(16:10):
gonna entail, how do you havethose conversations where you
have to kind of say, yeah, yeah,yeah, but I need to present you
with what the limitations are.
How do you have thatconversation?
SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
Uh so that that's uh that that that that's like the
core of our conversation, right?
And um, and a lot of times umcompanies have challenges and
that's why they come, right?
So then the first thing is like,have you are you are you just do
you did you immediately knowthat you needed to really kind
of outsource the employment, ordid you run into a situation
(16:46):
where you can't establish anentity, you can't get employer
insurance?
Like, so we we ask them like,you know, what led them to us?
Um, and then the first few, thefirst types of questions are
what is the job description forthe employee?
Are they a manual laborer?
Are they working in a mine?
Are they flying a plane?
Are they a doctor?
Are they a nurse?
(17:08):
So there are a lot of industriesand types of roles that have um
different types of insurancerequirements, certifications,
regulations.
Um I'm trying to think of likethere's just so many different
types of roles.
And so the first thing that welook at is what is the type,
what country are they in?
What is the type of role?
And then that kind of starts theour compliance.
(17:30):
Uh, we know there's certainindustries that we would
immediately hand over to ourcompliance team.
And then we know there arecertain types of roles that we
would immediately send over toour compliance team as well to
make sure that our agreementswould cover that type of
employee.
So is there a collectivebargaining agreement?
Is there a union?
So there's a lot of a lot of uhthings that go into can we cover
(17:51):
that type of employee in thatspecific country under the
agreements that we currentlyhave.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
And whenever there's, you know, whenever a
company is opening new business,expanding their markets, uh, it
affects every department.
And so what I'm wondering, youknow, I know you mentioned, you
know, you you touch HR obviouslyin a big way.
Um, and I would imagine you'dhave to kind of consider how is
(18:21):
the expansion um going to impactthe current employer-to-employee
relations relationship becauseyou want to continue to be able
to nurture that.
Um and but at the same time,there's also the aspect of brand
identity, and how do you havethose conversations where how
(18:42):
they can continue to weave thatin?
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Uh yes.
So um I just had conversationsthis week and I asked them,
like, what's the number onething that you are that you want
to ensure that you're gettingout of this?
And I'm like, sometimes I'mthinking they want to make sure
that they're covered from acompliance perspective or cost
was important.
What the theme this week fromevery single client or partner
(19:08):
that I talked to was that theemployee experience was great,
that service of the employeeswas the number one thing that
was important.
So um that I don't know why itjust happened to be this week
that that was the top thing, butthat is um, I mean, it's pretty
common for um for this type ofrole in this situation, because
(19:31):
in a lot of countries, sometimeswe are um sometimes we are
hiring um C level people indifferent countries, which you
wouldn't think that we typicallydo, but we see a lot of that.
Um, and then we also hire a lotof knowledge workers that have
very specific skills, and theemployer is willing to hire them
in a different country.
(19:51):
So they are looking for the besttalent sometimes, and sometimes
those people live or have movedto a country where they want to
live in.
Um, so we do see a lot of umhighly skilled um people in
these roles at time, and so it'simportant for them to still feel
like they are getting the samelevel of uh support, benefits,
(20:12):
um, different options, and thatthey're a priority.
So uh employee experience, um,at least for this week, has been
the number one thing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Uh I'm glad we, you know, timing is everything,
right?
So thank you very much forsharing that.
Uh I I don't want to forget toum give a mention regarding
data, right?
Um it's everything, it's how II'm just wondering if if there
are differences depending onwhere the business is and how
(20:44):
it's categorized, protected,reported.
I imagine that there's lots ofdifferences there.
And uh when you uh addterritory, um you add human
interaction, you add systems tothe process, and the more you
add, there's more touch points,which tends to increase the
(21:06):
risk.
So when a company is looking toopen a new market, what what
would you say the employer needto needs to look for to keep the
company data, the employees, andthe information safe?
Um in this process of opening upthe market.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
If they're trying if they're opening up the market on
their own, then they typicallyhave their own their own kind of
corporate infrastructure fordata protection, GDPR, um,
depending on where they're doingbusiness, rules and regulations.
Um, so they would they wouldtypically already have that uh
covered.
And then if they're going theemployer of record route, um
(21:51):
then we look at the same thingslike who's deploying the
laptops, who's managing thesecurity.
And it's typically the employerthat is at least managing.
Managing like the network of theemployer of record employee.
So we might deploy laptops, butthey they're imaged with the
company type of information thatthe actual original employer is
(22:13):
coming from.
So I would say that they managea lot of their own data, whether
it's our employee or theirs.
They're still working withinthat employer's infrastructure.
And so they are they're usuallyprotected and covered under that
employer as far as like dataprotection goes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
And love for you to share your insights on if we've
got anyone that's considering anear-term market expansion.
What should they be consideringwhen planning for this in the
near term?
(22:54):
Whatever, I don't know if youwant to call it a six-month, a
year out.
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
So the um I think the top things that are being
considered right now is justwhat type of uh are they looking
for a place to establish like amanufacturing plant, right?
So with the with the tariffs andeverything that's um that is uh
happening right now um in the inthe political landscape, they
would need to first establishwhat type, you know, are they
(23:23):
looking to hire developers,right?
Which are which is differentthan a manufacturing type
environment.
But we still we still see andhave a lot of clients um
actually on the manufacturingside.
Um if it's in the finance, um,you know, there's a lot of
regulatory requirements uh foreach country in the in the
financial and in and insurancekind of industries.
(23:45):
Um so it just depends on whattype of um employees they are
looking to place or what type ofskills they need.
Um that would be like the firstthing and then determining
what's the best country toactually expand into.
So typically like a quick callto an EOR can help guide you to
the countries that you shouldfocus on and then the things
(24:07):
that you should look out fordepending on what industry
you're in.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Well, you've calmed me down.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um no, the your your uh youradvice and insights are um very
much appreciated.
Thank you.
And for anyone um tuning intothe show that uh wants to learn
more and have their ownconversation with you, how how
would you prefer they reach out?
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
Um I would love to reach out and link in with
anybody on LinkedIn, um, or Ican give you our information
that we're if you put it out toanybody.
Um, I'm happy to share theinformation with you, but
excited to talk to anybody thatwould like to um to discuss any
challenges that you have orthings that you're looking for
advice on expanding globally.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
What an exciting and inspirational business you're
involved in.
I mean, really.
It's it's it's awesome, yeah.
Uh Rebecca Croucher, ChiefGrowth Officer for Atlas, thanks
so much for being here.
Uh, if uh you are looking fortools to maximize uh your
employee talent andorganizational flow, you can
(25:15):
always check out what ISM has ontap.
Uh feel free to check out thewebsite ismworld.org.
Lots to choose from there.
If you're not a member, you maywant to consider that as well.
Just check out the membershippage.
I'm Melanie Stern.
Thanks for uh hanging out withus.
Always appreciate it.
Have a great rest of your day.
Glad to have you here with us again.
Appreciate your viewership.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andanother episode of Supply Chain
Unfiltered.
When you think of uhscalability, you know, it's it's
exciting just to even have areason to have the conversation,
right?
Um, because it's circled aroundgrowth.
(00:30):
And but there's a lot that comeswith it, and there's a lot of
aspects that you have to coverand plan and revisit often.
But there are also thoseinstances when you have uh
opportunity for scale that youdidn't anticipate.
But the the time required toturn it around and get things
(00:53):
going is very very small, verytight.
And it's easy to kind of uh setoff the internal panic button
when it happens.
So we're gonna get into thatconversation and how to best
manage those situations, eventhough they're great
opportunities.
You want to kind of temper thenegativity that can come out of
(01:16):
it.
Uh so with us today we haveRebecca Croucher.
She's Chief Growth Officer forAtlas.
Thanks so much for being here,Rebecca.
Absolutely, thanks for havingme.
Okay.
So um, can you just tell us alittle bit about yourself and
Atlas and kind of give us uhsome bullet points on what are
the benefits of working with anemployer of record?
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Uh, sure.
So a little bit about myself.
I have been um in the um in thehuman capital industry for the
last six years and recentlyjoined Atlas um HXM in January.
And uh we primarily provideemployer of record services.
Um and what that means is if acompany is um growing globally,
(02:03):
wants to hire outside of theirmain country, uh, we will hire
their and we will employ theiremployees.
So they don't have to set up alegal entity and how and with
with how long that takes, whichI'm sure we'll get into.
They don't have to have likeemployment lawyers, um, benefit
specialists, visa specialists ifthey want to bring in somebody
(02:24):
from outside the country.
Um, and so anything that'sneeded to employ somebody
globally in a different country,we provide that service.
SPEAKER_01 (02:33):
So you basically take a load off.
We take a lot of load off inhuman in human terms.
Okay.
So so uh let's take, forexample, let's say we've got
we're looking at an enterpriseand they're awarded a new client
or projects that requires thisquick turn scalability we
mentioned um at the intro, andwe've got to do it in order to
(02:54):
meet the contract scope.
Um, what are the things that youwould recommend that need to be
addressed first?
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Um, if they're trying to do it themselves or if
they quickly more so want toemploy a service?
SPEAKER_01 (03:08):
You know what?
If you can give us both andalmost do a quick side-by-side.
Sure.
Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (03:14):
Well, and this is why, like this is what happens,
and typically why people uhwould they start down the path
of let's say you don't have uman entity set up in uh in
Mexico, for instance.
Okay.
Um, you and typically a clientis or working with somebody and
(03:36):
um and they win a bid, right?
So the first thing they wouldhave to do is establish a legal
entity, and that could take uhone, there's a cost of that.
Okay.
So it could be 10,000, it couldbe 50.
Um, but it's not just likeestablishing the legal entity,
but it's like how long does thattake?
So it might be as little as sixweeks, it might be as long as 12
to 18 months in some countries.
(03:58):
Um, to establish a legal entity,sometimes you have to have real
estate.
You have to be, um, you have toown property.
Sometimes you have to havesomebody that lives in the
country that would be um uhcorporate secretary, uh director
for that company.
So there's a lot of requirementsin each in each country, there's
(04:19):
a lot of requirements that goeswith setting up a business.
So it's the timing, it's therequirements, and it's the cost.
And again, that's just to set upyour legal entity.
That's not even to start hiringpeople yet.
So then once you uh if you haveyour legal entity set up, um,
then you have to construct yourum employment agreements.
(04:40):
And so you need basically like aum employer employment lawyer to
ensure that you're meeting theregulations of that country in
the employment agreement.
Um, then you also need to knowum anything that goes along like
what kind of insurance, what arethe statutory insurances that
(05:00):
you have to cover for thatemployee?
Um, what does the employer haveto cover?
And then what are the employees'rights from a um vacation
perspective for holidays, um,for their own time off?
So there's a lot that goes intoum the employment law side of
it, and then the HR side of it,and then same thing with
(05:23):
benefits.
So does the country have um amandatory or do they does the
country provide that, which theemployer would have to pay for
insurance?
Is there optional insurance thatthe employee can elect to have
as well?
And then there's 401k, which wehave in the US, but a lot of
countries have pensions thathave to be funded.
Um, and then you have to knowlike what's mandatory, what's
(05:44):
optional.
So there's about 10 differentcomponents that we just covered
that are required when you aretrying to set up business and
just operate in a country.
So there's a lot that goes intothat.
Um, there's a lot of time,there's a lot of cost, and then
there's a lot of risk andliability that you have to
understand when you are goinginto a country, um, especially
(06:05):
around employment law.
SPEAKER_01 (06:07):
Wow.
I I I said a lot.
Yeah, I've been sitting here,it's like my chest is getting
tight.
So I think that's what I thinkthat's what happens.
Yeah, definitely.
Okay, so um, so based on all thethings that you just mentioned,
and can you kind of pull fromsome of your own experiences?
You don't have to call outspecific clients.
(06:28):
I wouldn't ask you to do that.
But are there specificchallenges that that come to
mind that you've already beenthrough with companies and and
how how would we best distillthe right information, um, you
know, prioritize the decisionsto help remove that that panic,
that chaos, and at the same timemaintain the efficiency and the
(06:52):
cost savings we're alwayslooking for, even when you're
opening up these new territoriesand having to staff up.
SPEAKER_00 (07:00):
Um the I think the biggest thing when somebody's
trying to do this is to first uhunderstand the time it's gonna
take, because that is typicallywhat people turn to us when they
realize how long it's gonna taketo for them to establish just
the entity.
And that's when um if ifsomebody once somebody kind of
(07:22):
starts going down working withsomebody where you need to hire
somebody in a different country,and a lot of times for us, um,
our clients will win a bid andneed to hire people in a
specific country to supporttheir clients.
And so the first recommendationis when you when you are even in
a bidding process or any kind ofuh negotiation to uh win some
type of business or if you'relooking to expand globally, um,
(07:45):
the first thing to do is tounderstand how long it's gonna
take because the timing and whenpeople want to grow fast and
expand quickly globally, that isthe number one thing that that
kills the momentum, is when theyrealize how long it's gonna
take.
Not like the expertise of whatwhat's needed to do, but the
first thing they realize is thatthis is gonna take me a year.
(08:08):
And so, and that, and thatreally that uh that hurts kind
of the the revenue uh growth,the timing of it.
And then a lot of times um theyalso have their backs up against
a wall where there's anopportunity that is um based on
timing as well, that theyrealize that they can't, like
even though they want to bid,now they have to go back to
(08:28):
their clients to say, we can'teven hire people in that country
until we have an entityestablished and it's gonna take
me a long time to get it.
So that's when that that wouldbe like my first recommendation
is when you're looking to expandglobally, um, first is
understanding how long it takesin that country.
And then a quick second, whichthis this might even be this
(08:49):
might even be more um importantthan the first, is really
understanding the employmentlaws in that country, and if you
are ready to either assume therisk or assume the the laws and
regulations that that countryhas around their employees.
Um so as you know, the US um isvery uh employer friendly, and
(09:11):
employees do not have as manyrights as um as they do in other
countries.
And so other countries reallyput employees first, and so
they're guaranteed you know umstatutory vacation.
Um, they can take off for insome countries for a certain
amount of time, um, maternity,paternity leave, very extensive
(09:33):
in some countries, uh, mentalhealth leave, very extensive in
some countries.
So there's a there's a lot ofthings to look at from an
employment um or an employee uhrights and regulations uh that
should be looked at equally tosee if that's a comp country
that's gonna be profitable foryou to go in.
Um and that and if you are gonnaget really the best um value for
(09:57):
the money that you're gonnaspend to employ somebody.
SPEAKER_01 (10:01):
So uh with you mentioning you know the
challenges that come, especiallywhen you are looking at hiring
in other countries and the thedifference in pr how we
prioritize um employer versusemployees.
What uh what do you have youfound is the most common
(10:21):
oversight that uh and and youcan choose the the business of
uh the country of origin for abusiness?
Um what's the biggest oversightthat um that seems seems to
arise when they're when uhbusinesses are making those
decisions on how how we hire orhow we go about um presenting um
(10:46):
uh opportunities for potentialstaff?
And you know, is it a is it acultural issue?
Is it a legal issue?
What what are you finding?
SPEAKER_00 (10:58):
That um like um tell me again what you're looking
for.
SPEAKER_01 (11:03):
So so when businesses want to grow
globally, or let's say they'veidentified a specific market
they would like to enter into,or there's this bid and they
have to act quickly and theyreally, really want it.
Um what do you find is perhapsthe most common oversight that
that company kind of steps on asfar as what they're not
(11:28):
considering when they're lookingto hire staff?
Is it from a culturalperspective or um legal
perspective or something else?
SPEAKER_00 (11:38):
So there's two things that um that immediately
come to mind.
Okay.
Um one is when they are whenthey're getting ready to hire.
There's a big difference betweenif they want to hire somebody
that is um a country, you know,country national, somebody that
lives in that country, or ifthey want to bring in people to
that country.
(11:59):
So visa requirements.
So um we've had we have uhcompanies that have come to us
to say we went through all thework to establish an entity and
get everything set up.
And then we realized that wewanted to bring in these teams
and now we can't get visas againfor like six to nine months.
So that's one.
unknown (12:18):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
And then two is um locally, um, if somebody's
hiring locals, their firstquestion to us is um um, is are
your support services um local?
Do they understand the localculture?
Because in some countries, um,in APAC specifically in the
Middle East, you have to knowthat you have to be of the
(12:39):
culture, you have to understandthe culture in order to make the
work environment palatable forthem to want to work in, um you
have to be part of the culture.
So that's that's a big piece ofit for when companies are trying
to expand, then they need tohave, you know, make sure that
they have when they are hiringtheir HR and their and their
different um folks in operationslike in countries, that those
(13:03):
have to be typically um somebodythat understands the culture
very well and that is part ofthat.
SPEAKER_01 (13:08):
And in this whole process, um are there specific
uh tools that you use um to helpbusinesses maintain compliance
in all the areas when they'reopening up those new markets?
And do those tools um can theyhelp prevent or support um a
(13:30):
seamless uh prevent issues andsupport a seamless process?
SPEAKER_00 (13:36):
Uh our our tools uh would be really the we have uh
it's it's for us, it's more theexpertise of the lawyers and the
um the HR personnel, right?
So they have been in theindustry, they understand the
(13:58):
rules and regulations, uh, theyare constantly monitoring them
in each country and in our andlike the support teams sit in
country um and in region.
So um it's not so much a toolbecause it's there is no tool
that is, I mean, I'm surethere's one somewhere, but there
is not a tool that we have or weuse that provides a validated
(14:20):
set of rules and regulations umthat change all the time.
So we have to monitor um, and weuse different resources for
monitoring the different umlegal uh changes that are
happening in each country on adaily, weekly, monthly basis.
So, you know, there's a lot ofthings that are happening
annually, and then there arethings that are just being
(14:41):
pushed out, that are being votedon, that are newly um, you know,
newly newly regulatedindustries, like um crypto,
right?
Brand new industry.
Some countries have not caughtup and added that um under any
type of regulatory requirements.
So as new things roll out, AI isanother example.
(15:02):
So as new things roll out, um,there could be some type of
inclusion of something thataffects employment or company
insurance, liability.
Um, so there are a lot of piecesand moving parts here, but I
would say as far as a tool, Imean, we may we maintain a
number of things internally thatum enables us to push those
(15:24):
changes out to existing clients,alert, you know, prospective
clients uh that are that arecoming on.
Um but that that is really kindof the employer services that
are provided by EORs really umcovers a deep layer of service
that covers um employerliability, um, insurance,
(15:46):
benefits, HR, employment law.
SPEAKER_01 (15:48):
And uh when you're working with clients and you
know they've got all thatenthusiasm and they're so
excited about uh you know wherethey're headed and what's next,
um, and you want to support themand and carry them through, but
also because you're the expertand you know what the venture is
(16:10):
gonna entail, how do you havethose conversations where you
have to kind of say, yeah, yeah,yeah, but I need to present you
with what the limitations are.
How do you have thatconversation?
SPEAKER_00 (16:24):
Uh so that that's uh that that that that's like the
core of our conversation, right?
And um, and a lot of times umcompanies have challenges and
that's why they come, right?
So then the first thing is like,have you are you are you just do
you did you immediately knowthat you needed to really kind
of outsource the employment, ordid you run into a situation
(16:46):
where you can't establish anentity, you can't get employer
insurance?
Like, so we we ask them like,you know, what led them to us?
Um, and then the first few, thefirst types of questions are
what is the job description forthe employee?
Are they a manual laborer?
Are they working in a mine?
Are they flying a plane?
Are they a doctor?
Are they a nurse?
(17:08):
So there are a lot of industriesand types of roles that have um
different types of insurancerequirements, certifications,
regulations.
Um I'm trying to think of likethere's just so many different
types of roles.
And so the first thing that welook at is what is the type,
what country are they in?
What is the type of role?
And then that kind of starts theour compliance.
(17:30):
Uh, we know there's certainindustries that we would
immediately hand over to ourcompliance team.
And then we know there arecertain types of roles that we
would immediately send over toour compliance team as well to
make sure that our agreementswould cover that type of
employee.
So is there a collectivebargaining agreement?
Is there a union?
So there's a lot of a lot of uhthings that go into can we cover
(17:51):
that type of employee in thatspecific country under the
agreements that we currentlyhave.
SPEAKER_01 (17:57):
And whenever there's, you know, whenever a
company is opening new business,expanding their markets, uh, it
affects every department.
And so what I'm wondering, youknow, I know you mentioned, you
know, you you touch HR obviouslyin a big way.
Um, and I would imagine you'dhave to kind of consider how is
(18:21):
the expansion um going to impactthe current employer-to-employee
relations relationship becauseyou want to continue to be able
to nurture that.
Um and but at the same time,there's also the aspect of brand
identity, and how do you havethose conversations where how
(18:42):
they can continue to weave thatin?
SPEAKER_00 (18:46):
Uh yes.
So um I just had conversationsthis week and I asked them,
like, what's the number onething that you are that you want
to ensure that you're gettingout of this?
And I'm like, sometimes I'mthinking they want to make sure
that they're covered from acompliance perspective or cost
was important.
What the theme this week fromevery single client or partner
(19:08):
that I talked to was that theemployee experience was great,
that service of the employeeswas the number one thing that
was important.
So um that I don't know why itjust happened to be this week
that that was the top thing, butthat is um, I mean, it's pretty
common for um for this type ofrole in this situation, because
(19:31):
in a lot of countries, sometimeswe are um sometimes we are
hiring um C level people indifferent countries, which you
wouldn't think that we typicallydo, but we see a lot of that.
Um, and then we also hire a lotof knowledge workers that have
very specific skills, and theemployer is willing to hire them
in a different country.
(19:51):
So they are looking for the besttalent sometimes, and sometimes
those people live or have movedto a country where they want to
live in.
Um, so we do see a lot of umhighly skilled um people in
these roles at time, and so it'simportant for them to still feel
like they are getting the samelevel of uh support, benefits,
(20:12):
um, different options, and thatthey're a priority.
So uh employee experience, um,at least for this week, has been
the number one thing.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Uh I'm glad we, you know, timing is everything,
right?
So thank you very much forsharing that.
Uh I I don't want to forget toum give a mention regarding
data, right?
Um it's everything, it's how II'm just wondering if if there
are differences depending onwhere the business is and how
(20:44):
it's categorized, protected,reported.
I imagine that there's lots ofdifferences there.
And uh when you uh addterritory, um you add human
interaction, you add systems tothe process, and the more you
add, there's more touch points,which tends to increase the
(21:06):
risk.
So when a company is looking toopen a new market, what what
would you say the employer needto needs to look for to keep the
company data, the employees, andthe information safe?
Um in this process of opening upthe market.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
If they're trying if they're opening up the market on
their own, then they typicallyhave their own their own kind of
corporate infrastructure fordata protection, GDPR, um,
depending on where they're doingbusiness, rules and regulations.
Um, so they would they wouldtypically already have that uh
covered.
And then if they're going theemployer of record route, um
(21:51):
then we look at the same thingslike who's deploying the
laptops, who's managing thesecurity.
And it's typically the employerthat is at least managing.
Managing like the network of theemployer of record employee.
So we might deploy laptops, butthey they're imaged with the
company type of information thatthe actual original employer is
(22:13):
coming from.
So I would say that they managea lot of their own data, whether
it's our employee or theirs.
They're still working withinthat employer's infrastructure.
And so they are they're usuallyprotected and covered under that
employer as far as like dataprotection goes.
SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
And love for you to share your insights on if we've
got anyone that's considering anear-term market expansion.
What should they be consideringwhen planning for this in the
near term?
(22:54):
Whatever, I don't know if youwant to call it a six-month, a
year out.
SPEAKER_00 (23:00):
So the um I think the top things that are being
considered right now is justwhat type of uh are they looking
for a place to establish like amanufacturing plant, right?
So with the with the tariffs andeverything that's um that is uh
happening right now um in the inthe political landscape, they
would need to first establishwhat type, you know, are they
(23:23):
looking to hire developers,right?
Which are which is differentthan a manufacturing type
environment.
But we still we still see andhave a lot of clients um
actually on the manufacturingside.
Um if it's in the finance, um,you know, there's a lot of
regulatory requirements uh foreach country in the in the
financial and in and insurancekind of industries.
(23:45):
Um so it just depends on whattype of um employees they are
looking to place or what type ofskills they need.
Um that would be like the firstthing and then determining
what's the best country toactually expand into.
So typically like a quick callto an EOR can help guide you to
the countries that you shouldfocus on and then the things
(24:07):
that you should look out fordepending on what industry
you're in.
SPEAKER_01 (24:12):
Well, you've calmed me down.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Um no, the your your uh youradvice and insights are um very
much appreciated.
Thank you.
And for anyone um tuning intothe show that uh wants to learn
more and have their ownconversation with you, how how
would you prefer they reach out?
SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
Um I would love to reach out and link in with
anybody on LinkedIn, um, or Ican give you our information
that we're if you put it out toanybody.
Um, I'm happy to share theinformation with you, but
excited to talk to anybody thatwould like to um to discuss any
challenges that you have orthings that you're looking for
advice on expanding globally.
SPEAKER_01 (24:53):
What an exciting and inspirational business you're
involved in.
I mean, really.
It's it's it's awesome, yeah.
Uh Rebecca Croucher, ChiefGrowth Officer for Atlas, thanks
so much for being here.
Uh, if uh you are looking fortools to maximize uh your
employee talent andorganizational flow, you can
(25:15):
always check out what ISM has ontap.
Uh feel free to check out thewebsite ismworld.org.
Lots to choose from there.
If you're not a member, you maywant to consider that as well.
Just check out the membershippage.
I'm Melanie Stern.
Thanks for uh hanging out withus.
Always appreciate it.
Have a great rest of your day.
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