July 22, 2026 • 27 mins
Sustainability can feel like a moving target when elections, tariff headlines, and shifting regulations keep rewriting the rules. We sit down with Kris Spriano, former Vice President of Programs and Development at the Sustainable Purchasing Leadership Council (SPLC) and current Product Materials Manager at Arista Networks, to get honest about what’s really happening inside procurement teams and why many companies are getting quieter about sustainable sourcing even while the work continues behind the scenes.
We dig into how trade and economic volatility affects supplier availability, and why “just move sourcing” is rarely a clean fix in a complex global supply chain. Kris breaks down what smart regionalization looks like, how lean thinking and network design can lower greenhouse gas emissions, and why a tariff-driven shuffle can actually make climate impact worse if you ignore the fundamentals.
From electric fleets and the emerging push to electrify heavy equipment in construction (a major emissions driver) to the overlooked climate footprint of food supply chains, we talk through where sustainable procurement can create real, measurable change. We also get practical about what leadership looks like, including how governments embed sustainability into RFPs and specifications, plus the three reasons that keep sustainable purchasing alive: customer and stakeholder demands, brand reputation risk, and operational cost savings. Finally, we look ahead at AI procurement tools and how they can speed up RFP work and sustainability requirements, as long as teams validate what the tech produces.
If this helps you rethink your procurement strategy, subscribe, share this with a colleague, and leave a review so more supply chain leaders can find the show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:04):
For real stories on how global business gets done.
This is Supply Chain Unfiltered,presented by the Institute for
Supply Management.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Good to be here with you for another episode of
Supply Chain Unfiltered.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM, andwe are going to put a I'll say a
spotlight today on procurement.
You know, we talk about lots ofdifferent aspects of supply
management, and todayprocurement is it.
(00:42):
And I, you know, there it it I'mjust perplexed, I can't even get
the message out.
The uh it's kind of strange.
I find it strange in that youknow, we've got a lot of, I'll
say, business and politicalinitiatives that have kind of
been shifting, um, and thathappens, you know, after
(01:02):
elections.
And we we kind of some companieshave taken a different look or
kind of put things on pause ortaken a step back when it comes
to looking at sustainability inprocurement practices.
And that's going to be today'suh focus.
And with us is Chris Briano,she's the vice president of
(01:26):
programs and developmentsustainable purchasing
leadership council.
Great to have you here, Chris.
Thanks, Melanie.
Great to be here.
Yeah, so um as you know, wewe've seen global supply chains,
you know, shifting, you know,changing their position, you
know, going to differentregions, changing suppliers, um,
(01:47):
looking at different countriesas far as where they're doing
business and who they're doingbusiness with.
Are you finding that morecompanies um and their
manufacturers are leaning intoor away, fading away from
sustainable sourcing?
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Yeah, great question, Melanie.
It's it's certainly uh, I wouldcall it a volatile time for
those of us focused on,especially those of us focused
on reducing toxins, ensuringfair labor, you know, promoting
small and local businessdevelopment and uh addressing
climate change all throughprocurement and and supply
(02:29):
chain.
Um definitely US policy isencouraging us recently to kind
of shift away from some of thiswork.
Um, however, I think it it's itwarrants saying that you know
it's really only been recentyears where federal governments
around the world have haveactually been catching up, I'd
(02:52):
like to say, on addressingsupply chain sustainability
impacts and opportunities.
Ultimately, this work was reallyset in motion over a decade ago
to respond to things like brandreputation risks, customer and
shareholder demands, and even toreally prevent, or excuse me, um
(03:13):
present cost savings andoperational efficiency
opportunities, amongst otherthings.
So, you know, right now, while Ido see companies becoming less
motivated to talk about thiswork publicly, um, the business
case for sustainable sourcinghas already been proven and is
(03:35):
proven a long time ago.
So I don't anticipate companiesand their manufacturers really
changing their positions on it,but certainly the conversation
needs to go back to thefundamentals of why we're doing
it, really refreshing executiveleaders on, you know, again, why
why we we started this work inthe first place.
SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Good point.
Um, because sometimes, you know,we we get caught in the weeds
and the weeds keep changing.
And so we that's a good way toput it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
I don't like the dandelions in particular, but
you know, they taste goodsometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Yeah, and and either way, when you're dealing with
weeds, you're gonna get yourhands dirty.
But um yeah, but with so so youmentioned the word volatility,
okay.
Um, we're all feeling it.
And with today's trade andeconomic volatilities going on,
how do you think that um that'simpacted the availability of
(04:32):
sustainable sources?
Um and like suppliers, yeah.
And and are are there specificindustries that you you find
have been affected more thanothers?
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
Yeah, this is a tough one, not gonna lie.
Um, I I think at this pointwe're still waiting to see the
the true impact of thisvolatility on all sources or
suppliers, not necessarily justsustainable suppliers and and
sources.
Um, certainly for those in ourSPLC membership that have been
(05:05):
focused on increasing localUS-based sourcing and community
development over the years,there's a chance that, you know,
maybe some of that will helpwith some of the tariff
policies, for example.
Um, you know, think about foodservice companies that are
sourcing local, uh locally,excuse me, um for things like
(05:28):
vegetables, for example.
Um, but even in that example,there's still the question
around, you know, what's theimpact, the trade and economic
impact of equipment and suppliesthat they need to really, you
know, um do their work.
Are those things still comingfrom international sources?
And and as our listeners know,um, our global supply chains are
(05:52):
highly complex and take manyyears to redesign and optimize.
Yeah.
So I think even Chat GPT isreally going to struggle with
estimating the total impacthere.
And it's it's not just aboutsustainable sources, it's really
about the whole supply chain.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So so if you think about umsupply chains that have you know
made these pivots or are in theprocess of doing so, and they're
going more regional, so tospeak.
Um, and so you've got, you know,the logistics changes, um, are
(06:33):
with with uh I'll say shorterroutes, for example, or just uh
changing the mechanism of thesupply chain itself.
Is that help address in in adirect or indirect way the
climate crisis or climatechange, the things that we're
having to deal with because ofthose shifts?
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
Yeah, potentially.
I I do see an opportunity herein um in my previous role as a
supply chain sustainabilitypractitioner.
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
It was really incredible to see the cost and
greenhouse gas emissions savedand avoided from you know what
I'd call smart regionalization.
Um, but I think I think here'sthe key.
It's it's all about optimizingsupply chain design and
fulfillment to your actualsupply availability and demands.
(07:23):
And that that comes down to someelementary concepts around the
you know, the old leanmanufacturing.
Um and and and it, you know,really optimizing based on the
presence or lack of excessivetariffs alone, um, you know,
independent of that leanmanufacturing approach, it
(07:45):
really isn't going to help us atall with the climate crisis.
And in fact, I could potentiallysee it making it worse, you
know, if organizations are justmoving to move things into a
different country, but notreally looking at, you know,
smart supply chain design.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
So it's almost like um companies are having to, I
don't want to say pick theirpoison, but um, you know, oh,
we're not going to be able to doall the things and reach all the
goals that we want to, includingkeeping things really focused on
sustainability.
So and because of all theregulations constantly changing,
(08:25):
tariffs changing, we might thinkwe have the end-all be-all
solution today, but that couldchange tomorrow.
And that's um that's I mean,that's a level of of I'm gonna
say chaos.
I mean, how yeah, how do youever how do you ever get
comfortable with that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
Yeah, uh you know, we've heard it, we've we've
heard it a lot that you know,and until there's some
stabilization of what thesecompanies can expect with
tariffs, they're not gonna beinclined to change anything,
right?
Like, like you have to knowwhere you're headed, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
But then I think too, another um, I'll say
challenge is that if if you'vegot companies choosing to do
business, choosing to dobusiness with suppliers,
choosing to use product andmaterials that may not be as
sustainable as as others thatthey may have chosen to work
(09:26):
with in the past, at what pointuh does it become problematic,
if at all, if somewhere in thefuture we get to that a little
bit more stabilization, and allof a sudden you've got customers
that are tooting their horn, andall of a sudden um
sustainability is back to wherewe've always wanted it to be,
(09:48):
and it's a uh a key initiativeand something we all want to
aspire to.
And then you look back in therecent history and you've made
kind of adjustments that may notalign with sustainability
practices.
Are people going to get calledout?
Do you do you get what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Yeah, I think so.
I I think so.
Um I think you're referring toum, you know, just just shifting
away from sustainability to thepoint where to survive.
There's a lot of catch-up to do,right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and so I I also want tobring up um, you know, EVs.
I have to do it.
Um been such a big, big push forit.
Um and we've got the thetechnologies.
I mean, I know uh you knowthere's a lot of um chatter
about uh Tesla, but it kind ofin general, the EV initiatives
(10:45):
are have they lost some momentumsince now it seems that
especially in the US, fossilfuel-based vehicles are kind of
still the preference by manylogistics companies, I'm
guessing because of cost.
So is there have we lost the youknow the momentum we had with
sustainability related to youknow equipment that logistics
(11:09):
companies rely on?
SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I can't speak to thepreference of logistics
companies uh specifically, butbut you know, the SPLC does
serve all different types oforganizations, not just
corporations, but governmentsand universities.
And I can say that we havegovernment organizations here in
(11:35):
the US that have had greatsuccess with electric fleets and
buses, such as you know, KingCounty in Washington, City of
Portland and Oregon.
And I can even point to you knowa new group just launched in the
last year called the NorthAmerican Electric Construction
Coalition that's taking thiseven further with a mission to
(12:00):
motivate heavy equipmentmanufacturers to also offer
electric options.
Um, and you know, it's worthnoting that the construction
sector in particular isresponsible for more than 23% of
global greenhouse gas emissions.
Um, and you know, so the C4cities beneath this new
(12:21):
initiative have formed this newcollaboration and are doing what
they should be.
They're focused on their ownlargest opportunities,
construction in this case, toreduce greenhouse gas emissions.
So, you know, I'm you know, I doagree that cuts to tax
incentives for EVs and you know,certainly the cuts to um tax
(12:45):
incentives around renewableenergy projects are going to
hurt.
They're they are absolutelygoing to hurt.
And and we see that demonstratedalready in some of our uh
multi-stakeholdercollaboratives, but it really
doesn't take away from the factthat you know these are
innovative new solutions thatoffer a wide range of benefits,
(13:07):
not just to the organizationsthat purchase them, but really
to our environment and andcommunity health.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, yeah, everybody, everybody benefits.
Um so you mentioned the foodindustry earlier.
Um are they fully embracingsustainable practices?
I mean, in in light of all thesechanges, and do you think from
what you've seen, is it kind ofa slow adoption or um is it more
(13:36):
cumbersome to bring theseinitiatives to light?
Um are they bogged down byregulation or is it is it
lightening up?
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah, yeah, great, great question.
You know, we're we're definitelyand and ever since I joined the
SPLC in 2017, I've I've seen,you know, parts of the food
industry really embracingsustainable practices,
sustainable supply chains.
And and we see this largelydriven by leading food
(14:07):
purchasers that are reallyresponding to their customers'
demands, such as um SPLCmembers, NGM Resorts, Eramark,
Sedexo, and even a lot ofuniversities, um, you know,
where food and food service isone is one of their largest
greenhouse gas emissionsimpacts.
You wouldn't think that, but itis.
(14:29):
Um, universities like BostonUniversity, MIT, and Harvard
here in my backyard areabsolutely prioritizing this.
Um, you know, overall, I thinkthese organizations are making
great progress with their foodsuppliers, but but also looking
at their own operationalefficiencies to reduce food
(14:50):
waste, for example, um, youknow, locally source.
Um they they also use uh quiteoften sustainability labels like
fair trade, um, multiple seafooduh sustainability labels are out
there as well.
And and they're even going asfar as reducing toxins in the
packaging that that touch thefood that their you know their
(15:14):
cons or their consumer, theirend users, let's call them, uh
consume.
So, you know, overall, Iwouldn't say that adoption in
the food industry and you know,the food industry customers are
and is any slower or faster thanany other industry.
I think they got a late start,maybe compared to like, yeah.
(15:35):
Yeah, there you go.
I like that.
Compared to like, you know, ITelectronics where I came from.
Yeah.
Um, but but IT electronicsreally had to respond to
responsible sourcing, you know,out of necessity way back when.
Um, and with 24% of globalgreenhouse gas emissions really
coming from food, agriculture,and land use, I think the food
(15:59):
industry has a tremendousopportunity to really catch up
and leapfrog any otherindustry's progress if they
choose to do so.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Wow.
I I just when you were when youwere talking about um
agriculture, you know, and food,of course, I in my head I I I
had my cousin pop up who's beena um vegetarian forever, and all
the arguments, all the argumentshe would have about um methane
(16:28):
and cattle and and all thethings, you know.
Um so I'm wondering too, do anyspecific companies,
organizations come to mind ifyou were to kind of title title
them as being the goats ofsustainable practices in
(16:50):
procurement?
Like, you know, that they arejust at the at the top, you
know, they are someone that thatcould mentor the rest of us and
how they go about it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Oh, you put me on the spot here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
Sorry.
Um and I'm sure there are many.
I will I will say that there arethere are.
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
And and you know, it it it ebbs and flows sometimes,
right?
Um so so yeah, I mean, certainlythere are people or
organizations like the ones thatI've already mentioned that have
been doing this for a long time.
I I I wouldn't have mentionedthese folks had they not been,
(17:37):
you know, committed to it for along time and and are really
showing progress, right?
Um, and it's funny becausethey're not always the
organizations that that you hearabout, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
And and I think I think that's what is so unique
about how we serve thecommunity.
Um, you know, we don't focus,like I said, we don't just focus
on corporations.
Corporations, you know, throughour measurement and benchmarking
platform navigator, we we'veproven what we thought to be
(18:13):
true that corporations are doingreally well compared to
governments and higher ed inintegrating sustainability
strategically, right?
Yeah.
You think corporate socialresponsibility, you think you
know, procurement, supplychain-related strategic goals,
you know, embedded in everydaylife.
That's great, right?
(18:34):
But but what I think a lot ofpeople don't realize is that the
government sector, and thisisn't necessarily the federal
government, sometimes it is, butthe government sector from
federal, state to localgovernments like Multnomah
County, for example, City ofPortland, those two I had
mentioned, they've been doingthis for a long time.
(18:56):
And they're really good atembedding sustainability into
RFPs and specifications, reallytruly leveraging the procurement
process to advance sustainableprocurement.
Believe it or not, that'ssomething that I had never seen
up until the point when I gothere at the SPLC.
(19:16):
So I think that there's a hugeopportunity for
cross-pollination of ideas, ofyou know, addressing challenges.
And, you know, the leaders thatI mentioned today, you know, are
coupled with leaders that werecognize every year in our SPLC
leadership awards that you canactually see on our website.
(19:39):
Um, and and you know, that theopportunity to to become a
leader is within reach of ofreally any organizations that
that's committed to learning anddoing um alongside of everyone
else.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
And and uh for those of us that uh may not have, I'll
say, like, let's say the topthree reasons why you want to
procure your materials, yoursupplies through um sustainable
practices.
Um what are what are those threetop characteristics, three
(20:16):
reasons why we want to kind ofgo that route?
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah, I we always we always describe you know the
reasons as as kind of in in kindof two buckets.
Like there there are the reasonsto do good, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Like you would think that you don't need to spell it
out, but hey, I'm asking.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Right, right.
Like we need a world to live inin you know 20 years, 30, 30
years.
We you know, we need um peopleto have equal access to
opportunity and thrive, all thatstuff, all the sustainability
stuff, right?
Yeah, um, but but when you'redoing this as a profession, you
(21:02):
know, you really have to be ableto switch over to, you know, why
is the organization wanting todo this?
And and that's really where youknow we talk about the customer
demands, the stakeholderdemands.
You know, if if you look atcorporations, which I I think
(21:24):
most folks listening are aregonna be in a corporation, they
you know, you may not know thatyou know that that customers,
big customers, especially B2Bcustomers, often send
sustainability questionnaires toyour company to respond to
(21:45):
because they care about it,right?
They want to know what you'redoing.
What are your highest impacts?
What are you doing about it?
I think a lot of people inprocurement don't even know that
that's going on unless theystart working in supply chain
sustainability, right?
Um, so stakeholders care, right?
Your your business revenue isnow tied to it.
(22:07):
Um, brand reputation risks.
I I talked about that earlier.
The last thing you want is aglobal article on your contract
manufacturer whose employees arejumping off the roof because of
bad labor conditions.
Um, that's that happened.
I don't know if everyone knowsthat.
(22:30):
And um that's a huge risk toyour organization's
profitability and resilience,right?
Or sustainability and you know,financial sustainability, right?
Yeah.
Um, and and I think especiallywith supply chain sustainability
activities, you know,operational and cost savings
(22:50):
opportunities.
I I worked directly um with youknow folks, uh team members when
I was at Cisco Systems onoptimizing packaging and
logistics, getting rid of wastefor the sake of getting rid of
waste.
The amount of money that wesaved from that was incredible.
(23:11):
And and that, yes, we reducedgreenhouse gas emissions, yes,
you know, we dematerialized,right?
We reduced waste.
But at the end of the day, wemade the company more
profitable.
And and those are you know whatI call the organizational
benefits that really necessitatework in this area.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
And kind of looking forward a little bit here, are
do you know of anysustainability trends that we
should be watching for andsomething something new to get
excited about?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Um, you know, there's I I'm I'm gonna give you
the the canned answer thateverybody gives.
AI.
And I I say that as a you know,like a as a joke kind of, but
it's not a joke.
Like, like I was just at the ISMWorld Conference, as a matter of
(24:08):
fact, and the whole um, youknow, the the expo hall was
peppered with AI enabledprocurement tools.
Yeah, really, really cool toolsthat you know take
specification, RFPs, RFPresponses, let's say, and
compare them and you know, helpyou do that, that just very um
(24:32):
sometimes pretty mundaneprocurement work that we all
have to do.
And and you know, I you hearabout AI and how it's changing
things, but until you see itlike firsthand and get some
practical examples of how it'shelping people, you know, you
don't fully get it right.
So I fully got it when I was inFlorida.
(24:53):
And and I see that, you know,really um layering over into the
work that we do in supply chainsustainability and sustainable
procurement.
You know, I mentioned Maltnomasuh counties or or local county
governments that are integratingsustainability into their um RFP
(25:14):
process.
You could literally take chatGPT or whatever Google's
offering is, doesn't matterwhich one, and you could ask it
to you know look for um you knowthe environmental specifications
built into public contracts andand it'll give it to you.
I've seen it done.
(25:35):
Um now that said, you know, isit credible?
Is it really what you should befocused on?
It's a starting point, right?
Right.
But but then you know, coming tous would be great because that
is the type of thing that we dois we bring people together to
kind of you know come up withthese templates for that
purpose.
Um, but but I I I really do feellike everybody else, that AI is
(26:00):
is really gonna make our workeasier when it comes to not just
procurement, but sustainableprocurement as well.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
And Chris, if uh if we've got you know some uh some
listeners that just have to keepthis going and want to learn
more and uh learn more about theSPLC, um, how how do you suggest
they do that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:24):
Well, I would love to talk directly with them.
We're we're yeah, yeah, we're avery open NGO, 501c3 nonprofit,
and uh and we're alwaysreachable.
Um my my email, direct email, isChris K R I S at sustainable
purchasing.org.
(26:45):
So I'd I'd welcome anybody toreach out anytime.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Oh, thank you.
And um, thanks so much forsharing and appreciate all your
transparency.
Um it was just a pleasure.
And thank you.
We will we will be in touch.
Uh another it was a great topic,so thank you again.
Um, and if you find that we uhacross our episodes and that
(27:09):
you've listened to before andwatched, that there's a topic
that, hey, you know, why haven'tthese guys covered that?
Let us know, okay?
Send us an email atsupplychainunfiltered at
ismworld.org.
Love to hear your ideas.
Uh have a great weekend untilthen a great productive work
week.
Um and thanks for tuning in.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andSupply Chain Unfiltered.
For real stories on how global business gets done.
This is Supply Chain Unfiltered,presented by the Institute for
Supply Management.
SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
Good to be here with you for another episode of
Supply Chain Unfiltered.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM, andwe are going to put a I'll say a
spotlight today on procurement.
You know, we talk about lots ofdifferent aspects of supply
management, and todayprocurement is it.
(00:42):
And I, you know, there it it I'mjust perplexed, I can't even get
the message out.
The uh it's kind of strange.
I find it strange in that youknow, we've got a lot of, I'll
say, business and politicalinitiatives that have kind of
been shifting, um, and thathappens, you know, after
(01:02):
elections.
And we we kind of some companieshave taken a different look or
kind of put things on pause ortaken a step back when it comes
to looking at sustainability inprocurement practices.
And that's going to be today'suh focus.
And with us is Chris Briano,she's the vice president of
(01:26):
programs and developmentsustainable purchasing
leadership council.
Great to have you here, Chris.
Thanks, Melanie.
Great to be here.
Yeah, so um as you know, wewe've seen global supply chains,
you know, shifting, you know,changing their position, you
know, going to differentregions, changing suppliers, um,
(01:47):
looking at different countriesas far as where they're doing
business and who they're doingbusiness with.
Are you finding that morecompanies um and their
manufacturers are leaning intoor away, fading away from
sustainable sourcing?
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
Yeah, great question, Melanie.
It's it's certainly uh, I wouldcall it a volatile time for
those of us focused on,especially those of us focused
on reducing toxins, ensuringfair labor, you know, promoting
small and local businessdevelopment and uh addressing
climate change all throughprocurement and and supply
(02:29):
chain.
Um definitely US policy isencouraging us recently to kind
of shift away from some of thiswork.
Um, however, I think it it's itwarrants saying that you know
it's really only been recentyears where federal governments
around the world have haveactually been catching up, I'd
(02:52):
like to say, on addressingsupply chain sustainability
impacts and opportunities.
Ultimately, this work was reallyset in motion over a decade ago
to respond to things like brandreputation risks, customer and
shareholder demands, and even toreally prevent, or excuse me, um
(03:13):
present cost savings andoperational efficiency
opportunities, amongst otherthings.
So, you know, right now, while Ido see companies becoming less
motivated to talk about thiswork publicly, um, the business
case for sustainable sourcinghas already been proven and is
(03:35):
proven a long time ago.
So I don't anticipate companiesand their manufacturers really
changing their positions on it,but certainly the conversation
needs to go back to thefundamentals of why we're doing
it, really refreshing executiveleaders on, you know, again, why
why we we started this work inthe first place.
SPEAKER_01 (03:55):
Good point.
Um, because sometimes, you know,we we get caught in the weeds
and the weeds keep changing.
And so we that's a good way toput it.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (04:06):
I don't like the dandelions in particular, but
you know, they taste goodsometimes.
SPEAKER_01 (04:11):
Yeah, and and either way, when you're dealing with
weeds, you're gonna get yourhands dirty.
But um yeah, but with so so youmentioned the word volatility,
okay.
Um, we're all feeling it.
And with today's trade andeconomic volatilities going on,
how do you think that um that'simpacted the availability of
(04:32):
sustainable sources?
Um and like suppliers, yeah.
And and are are there specificindustries that you you find
have been affected more thanothers?
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
Yeah, this is a tough one, not gonna lie.
Um, I I think at this pointwe're still waiting to see the
the true impact of thisvolatility on all sources or
suppliers, not necessarily justsustainable suppliers and and
sources.
Um, certainly for those in ourSPLC membership that have been
(05:05):
focused on increasing localUS-based sourcing and community
development over the years,there's a chance that, you know,
maybe some of that will helpwith some of the tariff
policies, for example.
Um, you know, think about foodservice companies that are
sourcing local, uh locally,excuse me, um for things like
(05:28):
vegetables, for example.
Um, but even in that example,there's still the question
around, you know, what's theimpact, the trade and economic
impact of equipment and suppliesthat they need to really, you
know, um do their work.
Are those things still comingfrom international sources?
And and as our listeners know,um, our global supply chains are
(05:52):
highly complex and take manyyears to redesign and optimize.
Yeah.
So I think even Chat GPT isreally going to struggle with
estimating the total impacthere.
And it's it's not just aboutsustainable sources, it's really
about the whole supply chain.
SPEAKER_01 (06:09):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So so if you think about umsupply chains that have you know
made these pivots or are in theprocess of doing so, and they're
going more regional, so tospeak.
Um, and so you've got, you know,the logistics changes, um, are
(06:33):
with with uh I'll say shorterroutes, for example, or just uh
changing the mechanism of thesupply chain itself.
Is that help address in in adirect or indirect way the
climate crisis or climatechange, the things that we're
having to deal with because ofthose shifts?
SPEAKER_02 (06:52):
Yeah, potentially.
I I do see an opportunity herein um in my previous role as a
supply chain sustainabilitypractitioner.
SPEAKER_01 (07:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (07:02):
It was really incredible to see the cost and
greenhouse gas emissions savedand avoided from you know what
I'd call smart regionalization.
Um, but I think I think here'sthe key.
It's it's all about optimizingsupply chain design and
fulfillment to your actualsupply availability and demands.
(07:23):
And that that comes down to someelementary concepts around the
you know, the old leanmanufacturing.
Um and and and it, you know,really optimizing based on the
presence or lack of excessivetariffs alone, um, you know,
independent of that leanmanufacturing approach, it
(07:45):
really isn't going to help us atall with the climate crisis.
And in fact, I could potentiallysee it making it worse, you
know, if organizations are justmoving to move things into a
different country, but notreally looking at, you know,
smart supply chain design.
SPEAKER_01 (08:02):
So it's almost like um companies are having to, I
don't want to say pick theirpoison, but um, you know, oh,
we're not going to be able to doall the things and reach all the
goals that we want to, includingkeeping things really focused on
sustainability.
So and because of all theregulations constantly changing,
(08:25):
tariffs changing, we might thinkwe have the end-all be-all
solution today, but that couldchange tomorrow.
And that's um that's I mean,that's a level of of I'm gonna
say chaos.
I mean, how yeah, how do youever how do you ever get
comfortable with that?
SPEAKER_02 (08:44):
Yeah, uh you know, we've heard it, we've we've
heard it a lot that you know,and until there's some
stabilization of what thesecompanies can expect with
tariffs, they're not gonna beinclined to change anything,
right?
Like, like you have to knowwhere you're headed, absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (09:05):
But then I think too, another um, I'll say
challenge is that if if you'vegot companies choosing to do
business, choosing to dobusiness with suppliers,
choosing to use product andmaterials that may not be as
sustainable as as others thatthey may have chosen to work
(09:26):
with in the past, at what pointuh does it become problematic,
if at all, if somewhere in thefuture we get to that a little
bit more stabilization, and allof a sudden you've got customers
that are tooting their horn, andall of a sudden um
sustainability is back to wherewe've always wanted it to be,
(09:48):
and it's a uh a key initiativeand something we all want to
aspire to.
And then you look back in therecent history and you've made
kind of adjustments that may notalign with sustainability
practices.
Are people going to get calledout?
Do you do you get what I mean?
SPEAKER_02 (10:07):
Yeah, I think so.
I I think so.
Um I think you're referring toum, you know, just just shifting
away from sustainability to thepoint where to survive.
There's a lot of catch-up to do,right?
SPEAKER_01 (10:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Um, and so I I also want tobring up um, you know, EVs.
I have to do it.
Um been such a big, big push forit.
Um and we've got the thetechnologies.
I mean, I know uh you knowthere's a lot of um chatter
about uh Tesla, but it kind ofin general, the EV initiatives
(10:45):
are have they lost some momentumsince now it seems that
especially in the US, fossilfuel-based vehicles are kind of
still the preference by manylogistics companies, I'm
guessing because of cost.
So is there have we lost the youknow the momentum we had with
sustainability related to youknow equipment that logistics
(11:09):
companies rely on?
SPEAKER_02 (11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah, I I can't speak to thepreference of logistics
companies uh specifically, butbut you know, the SPLC does
serve all different types oforganizations, not just
corporations, but governmentsand universities.
And I can say that we havegovernment organizations here in
(11:35):
the US that have had greatsuccess with electric fleets and
buses, such as you know, KingCounty in Washington, City of
Portland and Oregon.
And I can even point to you knowa new group just launched in the
last year called the NorthAmerican Electric Construction
Coalition that's taking thiseven further with a mission to
(12:00):
motivate heavy equipmentmanufacturers to also offer
electric options.
Um, and you know, it's worthnoting that the construction
sector in particular isresponsible for more than 23% of
global greenhouse gas emissions.
Um, and you know, so the C4cities beneath this new
(12:21):
initiative have formed this newcollaboration and are doing what
they should be.
They're focused on their ownlargest opportunities,
construction in this case, toreduce greenhouse gas emissions.
So, you know, I'm you know, I doagree that cuts to tax
incentives for EVs and you know,certainly the cuts to um tax
(12:45):
incentives around renewableenergy projects are going to
hurt.
They're they are absolutelygoing to hurt.
And and we see that demonstratedalready in some of our uh
multi-stakeholdercollaboratives, but it really
doesn't take away from the factthat you know these are
innovative new solutions thatoffer a wide range of benefits,
(13:07):
not just to the organizationsthat purchase them, but really
to our environment and andcommunity health.
SPEAKER_01 (13:13):
Yeah, yeah, everybody, everybody benefits.
Um so you mentioned the foodindustry earlier.
Um are they fully embracingsustainable practices?
I mean, in in light of all thesechanges, and do you think from
what you've seen, is it kind ofa slow adoption or um is it more
(13:36):
cumbersome to bring theseinitiatives to light?
Um are they bogged down byregulation or is it is it
lightening up?
SPEAKER_02 (13:46):
Yeah, yeah, great, great question.
You know, we're we're definitelyand and ever since I joined the
SPLC in 2017, I've I've seen,you know, parts of the food
industry really embracingsustainable practices,
sustainable supply chains.
And and we see this largelydriven by leading food
(14:07):
purchasers that are reallyresponding to their customers'
demands, such as um SPLCmembers, NGM Resorts, Eramark,
Sedexo, and even a lot ofuniversities, um, you know,
where food and food service isone is one of their largest
greenhouse gas emissionsimpacts.
You wouldn't think that, but itis.
(14:29):
Um, universities like BostonUniversity, MIT, and Harvard
here in my backyard areabsolutely prioritizing this.
Um, you know, overall, I thinkthese organizations are making
great progress with their foodsuppliers, but but also looking
at their own operationalefficiencies to reduce food
(14:50):
waste, for example, um, youknow, locally source.
Um they they also use uh quiteoften sustainability labels like
fair trade, um, multiple seafooduh sustainability labels are out
there as well.
And and they're even going asfar as reducing toxins in the
packaging that that touch thefood that their you know their
(15:14):
cons or their consumer, theirend users, let's call them, uh
consume.
So, you know, overall, Iwouldn't say that adoption in
the food industry and you know,the food industry customers are
and is any slower or faster thanany other industry.
I think they got a late start,maybe compared to like, yeah.
(15:35):
Yeah, there you go.
I like that.
Compared to like, you know, ITelectronics where I came from.
Yeah.
Um, but but IT electronicsreally had to respond to
responsible sourcing, you know,out of necessity way back when.
Um, and with 24% of globalgreenhouse gas emissions really
coming from food, agriculture,and land use, I think the food
(15:59):
industry has a tremendousopportunity to really catch up
and leapfrog any otherindustry's progress if they
choose to do so.
SPEAKER_01 (16:08):
Wow.
I I just when you were when youwere talking about um
agriculture, you know, and food,of course, I in my head I I I
had my cousin pop up who's beena um vegetarian forever, and all
the arguments, all the argumentshe would have about um methane
(16:28):
and cattle and and all thethings, you know.
Um so I'm wondering too, do anyspecific companies,
organizations come to mind ifyou were to kind of title title
them as being the goats ofsustainable practices in
(16:50):
procurement?
Like, you know, that they arejust at the at the top, you
know, they are someone that thatcould mentor the rest of us and
how they go about it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
Oh, you put me on the spot here.
SPEAKER_01 (17:05):
Sorry.
Um and I'm sure there are many.
I will I will say that there arethere are.
SPEAKER_02 (17:14):
And and you know, it it it ebbs and flows sometimes,
right?
Um so so yeah, I mean, certainlythere are people or
organizations like the ones thatI've already mentioned that have
been doing this for a long time.
I I I wouldn't have mentionedthese folks had they not been,
(17:37):
you know, committed to it for along time and and are really
showing progress, right?
Um, and it's funny becausethey're not always the
organizations that that you hearabout, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (17:51):
And and I think I think that's what is so unique
about how we serve thecommunity.
Um, you know, we don't focus,like I said, we don't just focus
on corporations.
Corporations, you know, throughour measurement and benchmarking
platform navigator, we we'veproven what we thought to be
(18:13):
true that corporations are doingreally well compared to
governments and higher ed inintegrating sustainability
strategically, right?
Yeah.
You think corporate socialresponsibility, you think you
know, procurement, supplychain-related strategic goals,
you know, embedded in everydaylife.
That's great, right?
(18:34):
But but what I think a lot ofpeople don't realize is that the
government sector, and thisisn't necessarily the federal
government, sometimes it is, butthe government sector from
federal, state to localgovernments like Multnomah
County, for example, City ofPortland, those two I had
mentioned, they've been doingthis for a long time.
(18:56):
And they're really good atembedding sustainability into
RFPs and specifications, reallytruly leveraging the procurement
process to advance sustainableprocurement.
Believe it or not, that'ssomething that I had never seen
up until the point when I gothere at the SPLC.
(19:16):
So I think that there's a hugeopportunity for
cross-pollination of ideas, ofyou know, addressing challenges.
And, you know, the leaders thatI mentioned today, you know, are
coupled with leaders that werecognize every year in our SPLC
leadership awards that you canactually see on our website.
(19:39):
Um, and and you know, that theopportunity to to become a
leader is within reach of ofreally any organizations that
that's committed to learning anddoing um alongside of everyone
else.
SPEAKER_01 (19:53):
And and uh for those of us that uh may not have, I'll
say, like, let's say the topthree reasons why you want to
procure your materials, yoursupplies through um sustainable
practices.
Um what are what are those threetop characteristics, three
(20:16):
reasons why we want to kind ofgo that route?
SPEAKER_02 (20:21):
Yeah, I we always we always describe you know the
reasons as as kind of in in kindof two buckets.
Like there there are the reasonsto do good, right?
SPEAKER_01 (20:36):
Like you would think that you don't need to spell it
out, but hey, I'm asking.
SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Right, right.
Like we need a world to live inin you know 20 years, 30, 30
years.
We you know, we need um peopleto have equal access to
opportunity and thrive, all thatstuff, all the sustainability
stuff, right?
Yeah, um, but but when you'redoing this as a profession, you
(21:02):
know, you really have to be ableto switch over to, you know, why
is the organization wanting todo this?
And and that's really where youknow we talk about the customer
demands, the stakeholderdemands.
You know, if if you look atcorporations, which I I think
(21:24):
most folks listening are aregonna be in a corporation, they
you know, you may not know thatyou know that that customers,
big customers, especially B2Bcustomers, often send
sustainability questionnaires toyour company to respond to
(21:45):
because they care about it,right?
They want to know what you'redoing.
What are your highest impacts?
What are you doing about it?
I think a lot of people inprocurement don't even know that
that's going on unless theystart working in supply chain
sustainability, right?
Um, so stakeholders care, right?
Your your business revenue isnow tied to it.
(22:07):
Um, brand reputation risks.
I I talked about that earlier.
The last thing you want is aglobal article on your contract
manufacturer whose employees arejumping off the roof because of
bad labor conditions.
Um, that's that happened.
I don't know if everyone knowsthat.
(22:30):
And um that's a huge risk toyour organization's
profitability and resilience,right?
Or sustainability and you know,financial sustainability, right?
Yeah.
Um, and and I think especiallywith supply chain sustainability
activities, you know,operational and cost savings
(22:50):
opportunities.
I I worked directly um with youknow folks, uh team members when
I was at Cisco Systems onoptimizing packaging and
logistics, getting rid of wastefor the sake of getting rid of
waste.
The amount of money that wesaved from that was incredible.
(23:11):
And and that, yes, we reducedgreenhouse gas emissions, yes,
you know, we dematerialized,right?
We reduced waste.
But at the end of the day, wemade the company more
profitable.
And and those are you know whatI call the organizational
benefits that really necessitatework in this area.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
And kind of looking forward a little bit here, are
do you know of anysustainability trends that we
should be watching for andsomething something new to get
excited about?
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (23:44):
Um, you know, there's I I'm I'm gonna give you
the the canned answer thateverybody gives.
AI.
And I I say that as a you know,like a as a joke kind of, but
it's not a joke.
Like, like I was just at the ISMWorld Conference, as a matter of
(24:08):
fact, and the whole um, youknow, the the expo hall was
peppered with AI enabledprocurement tools.
Yeah, really, really cool toolsthat you know take
specification, RFPs, RFPresponses, let's say, and
compare them and you know, helpyou do that, that just very um
(24:32):
sometimes pretty mundaneprocurement work that we all
have to do.
And and you know, I you hearabout AI and how it's changing
things, but until you see itlike firsthand and get some
practical examples of how it'shelping people, you know, you
don't fully get it right.
So I fully got it when I was inFlorida.
(24:53):
And and I see that, you know,really um layering over into the
work that we do in supply chainsustainability and sustainable
procurement.
You know, I mentioned Maltnomasuh counties or or local county
governments that are integratingsustainability into their um RFP
(25:14):
process.
You could literally take chatGPT or whatever Google's
offering is, doesn't matterwhich one, and you could ask it
to you know look for um you knowthe environmental specifications
built into public contracts andand it'll give it to you.
I've seen it done.
(25:35):
Um now that said, you know, isit credible?
Is it really what you should befocused on?
It's a starting point, right?
Right.
But but then you know, coming tous would be great because that
is the type of thing that we dois we bring people together to
kind of you know come up withthese templates for that
purpose.
Um, but but I I I really do feellike everybody else, that AI is
(26:00):
is really gonna make our workeasier when it comes to not just
procurement, but sustainableprocurement as well.
SPEAKER_01 (26:09):
And Chris, if uh if we've got you know some uh some
listeners that just have to keepthis going and want to learn
more and uh learn more about theSPLC, um, how how do you suggest
they do that?
SPEAKER_02 (26:24):
Well, I would love to talk directly with them.
We're we're yeah, yeah, we're avery open NGO, 501c3 nonprofit,
and uh and we're alwaysreachable.
Um my my email, direct email, isChris K R I S at sustainable
purchasing.org.
(26:45):
So I'd I'd welcome anybody toreach out anytime.
SPEAKER_01 (26:48):
Oh, thank you.
And um, thanks so much forsharing and appreciate all your
transparency.
Um it was just a pleasure.
And thank you.
We will we will be in touch.
Uh another it was a great topic,so thank you again.
Um, and if you find that we uhacross our episodes and that
(27:09):
you've listened to before andwatched, that there's a topic
that, hey, you know, why haven'tthese guys covered that?
Let us know, okay?
Send us an email atsupplychainunfiltered at
ismworld.org.
Love to hear your ideas.
Uh have a great weekend untilthen a great productive work
week.
Um and thanks for tuning in.
I'm Melanie Stern for ISM andSupply Chain Unfiltered.
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