June 24, 2026 • 31 mins
Stability is the word we all want to hear in supply chain, but Lucas Cunha thinks we should stop waiting for it. The pace of AI, the churn in global trade, and the squeeze of nonstop deadlines are pushing logistics, procurement, and operations teams into a new reality where adaptability is the real baseline for survival. We dig into what that means on the ground when you are trying to keep materials moving, keep suppliers aligned, and keep leadership confident that risk is actually under control.
Lucas shares how Otrafy approaches supplier management and regulatory compliance with AI workflows that can pull data out of messy documents and compare it against complex requirements across jurisdictions. We talk real examples like pesticide thresholds that vary country by country, plus the rising pressure around claims such as organic, pesticide-free, and PFAS-free. Then we layer in the things that are making planning harder right now: shifting tariffs, ingredient swaps like food coloring replacements, and the operational “sanity” it takes to keep running while rules and costs change under your feet.
We also zoom in on FSMA 204 and the 2026 traceability deadline, including the expectation to trace critical tracking events fast, potentially in under 24 hours. From there, the conversation turns toward the bigger disruption ahead: AI-driven decision-making, the possibility of machine-to-machine procurement, and the risks of chasing speed without guardrails. If you care about AI in supply chain, food traceability, regulatory compliance, and practical ways to stay competitive, this one is for you. Subscribe, share this with a teammate, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:09):
Good to see you.
So good to see you.
Glad you decided to hang outwith us again today if it's your
first time.
Welcome, supply chainunfiltered.
It's what we do over here andtalk about everything and
everything, anything you canthink of related to supply
chain, logistics, procurement,all the good stuff.
And with us today we have LucasKuna.
(00:32):
He's CEO and co-founder ofAutravi, and I'll let him kind
of share little details aboutwhat he does day to day.
But to kind of set up today'sshow, I'm sure you find yourself
and the people around you atwork is just everyone is so darn
busy, right?
And you've got to cram all thestuff in and get it all done.
(00:57):
And the deadlines just keepcoming faster and faster.
And so when Lucas and I hadchatted a while ago, we were
going to, you know, kind ofcover the what's going on with
the upcoming FSMA 204requirements related to uh the
food industry.
And we're going to get to thatin a little bit here.
But when he and I were chatting,he uh Lucas had kind of
(01:21):
mentioned that he was justreally struck by how important
adaptability is and why it isyou know key to helping us
survive in today's businesslandscape.
So we're gonna uh get to that,Lucas.
I want uh you to address that ina second, but welcome to the
show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Hi, Melanie, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Hi, hi, good to see you.
Um so I just wondered from yourperspective what can you can you
recall what led you to thisrealization about the importance
of adaptability today?
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Yeah, um well, so I think it's a little bit of my
background.
I always thought it was reallyimportant.
Um I I never really thought thatyou know uh at the rate of uh
technology evolution, um, it'sonly gone up um from our
parents' generation, ourgrandparents' generation.
(02:21):
And we're now at a stage whereit's you know it's uh explosive
intelligence coming, and so it'suh we have to adapt fast.
I feel like you know, in thepast you could uh do the same
process the same way for yourentire life.
Uh and and you know that wouldbe your your life and your job
(02:41):
and your career, but that's nolonger a luxury that we have uh
because of the rate of changewith technology.
We just have to adapt reallyfast in uh everything that we
do.
We have to learn new technologyso that we stay in touch with
our families, we have to learnnew technology so that we stay
competitive with uh othercompanies and other people doing
the same services that we are,or if we're in the job market,
we have to stay uh adaptable sothat we still are relevant to
(03:03):
that job market.
Um and so I think you knowadaptability uh it's it's
everything.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
And can you give us a little uh a snippet about um
what Autrify is?
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Yeah, of course.
So um we started off as a uhsupplier management company, uh
so basically helping uh food andbeverage and manufacturing
companies optimize supplier datacollection.
And we evolved and we always itwas kind of a transformation,
not an evolution.
Uh we were always looking atways to optimize those data
(03:38):
exchanges between buyers andsellers by leveraging the best
technology.
Um like you know, artificialintelligence always been a part
of it, uh OCR and it extractionfrom PDFs and papers, uh, it's
always been a part of it.
Um into now what we're doing isuh you know all inclusive,
comprehensive workflows that areable to uh collect data from
(04:00):
suppliers, connect that datawith international regulations,
see if you're compliant andready to go into different
markets for different use casesand different strategies.
Uh so one uh great example herewould be like you know,
pesticide levels, for example.
Pesticide levels, the permittedlevels of pesticides in
different countries aredifferent.
Uh and so if you are using wheatflour in the manufacturing of a
(04:22):
final product, then that uhwheat flour is gonna be tested
by pest for pesticides, uh, andand then you're gonna have to
compare that pesticide testingresults, which is usually like a
three, four hundred uh types ofpesticides plus, uh, against the
regulation in the US.
Uh it was like uh Title 40 anduh subsection 180 or something.
(04:43):
Um when you're comparing that,you're gonna have to do a lot of
uh very uh complex andknowledge-based processes, and
then if you go into Europe, youhave to do the same, and if you
go into Brazil, you have to dothe same.
And so every jurisdiction youwant to go after, you're gonna
have to get the knowledge orfigure out if what you're doing
is compliant or not, uh and ifyou can do that or not.
Uh so what we do is we build allthis uh amazing AI that is able
(05:05):
to uh analyze first the level ofcompliance on the materials that
you're purchasing and then putit against uh the desirable
level of compliance from whereyou're gonna be selling it to or
what the requirements are forthe material uh and and give you
uh statuses updates.
Uh whether if it's like youknow, can you make sure that
this product is really organic?
Uh can you you claim uhpesticide free in the EU?
(05:28):
Uh can you you know uh can youclaim that there is no PFAS in
here?
Is uh one of the chemicals thatwe use here a PFAS?
Is there any uh food coloring?
Uh all of those uh scenarios uhour platform can be used to um
analyze, optimize, and come backwith answers uh for everyday
supply chain operators.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
And uh has that process become I'll I'll say
kind of dizzy uh with theconstant change of tariffs.
You know, I guess uh we got somenew news overnight that the the
numbers um being um given fordifferent for Canada, I believe,
had just shifted.
(06:10):
And uh I expect more of that.
So I I would imagine that inorder to keep keep current and
keep the the the pace, the quickpace that we're looking for, um
you have to rely on technologyright now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
Yeah, it's super interesting.
When you first reach out to me,it it's uh a few months ago, I
guess, right?
Yeah, um, I I feel like it wasbefore the announcements and and
uh I think Fisma was still superrelevant.
Yeah.
Uh and so uh you know it's funnyhow Fisma still is really
relevant, but I guess like withwhat's going on, people just
(06:46):
have to focus on figuring outhow to get their their processes
right.
Yeah.
Uh and so we what I'm seeing alot of my uh large enterprise
customers are spending a lot oftheir time on um look for those
food colorings and trying tofind replacements and trying to
find if those replacements arelegally able to do the same that
(07:07):
the other ones were.
Right.
Different jurisdictions, andthen trying to um figure out how
you buy those, but then you alsodeal with trade tariffs because
maybe they were coming fromBrazil or from Canada, and now
you don't know how much you'regonna have to pay for them
anymore.
Um, so yeah, those supply chainsare very messy.
And uh I like to think we givethem a helpful hand to uh let
(07:27):
them be able to, you know, atleast have some level of sanity
and continue to operate.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Yeah, we need all the how we need all the helpful
hands we can get right now.
Um so in so in this uh you knowprocess of learning to adapt and
doing so um as as quickly aspossible, we still want, I I
would imagine we still want tofind some realm of stability.
Um the way things are right now,do you think that's even
(07:55):
possible for supply chains toaspire to?
And if so, how do you think wecan get there into some
stability?
SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Um I don't think we're gonna get there.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Okay.
I appreciate your realism.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
I don't think we're gonna get there.
Um I think that um the the wholepush to you know manufacture in
America, I actually think it'spossible if we do that with a
lot of automation, robotics, andand AI in the process.
Uh which will be superinteresting to see play out.
So I but I do feel like it'spossible.
(08:33):
Now that said, uh that is gonnamake uh US manufacturing in
general have to evolve faster,and so stability is not gonna be
a luxury we're gonna have fromthat standpoint.
But then I also look at theother standpoint, which is um so
that's like uh I'm thinkingabout that as like governance,
government, all that kind ofstuff, right?
(08:54):
I don't see stability comingfrom there.
Uh I I can't say it's bad orgood, I just don't see
stability, right?
Um on the other side, I look atthe speed of uh technology
evolution as I was mentioning inthe beginning, yeah.
And and I think AI, the uh speedof AI, uh the knowledge uh that
uh agents are having, the waysthat they organize, like all
(09:17):
those kinds of things, it'sexplosive.
It's uh it's a lot.
I try to keep up.
I try to read a lot of uh PhDtype publications and keep in
touch with a lot of friends whoare in the industry.
We are a part of some reallycool programs with uh companies
like Microsoft, Google, uh thatkind of like you know get us to
have a lot of those niceconversations.
(09:37):
But the rate of speed ofdevelopment there is not gonna
stop in the foreseeable future,and uh it's gonna be a market
opportunity for newcomers tokind of enter markets that were
before dominated by establishedplayers, right?
So let's say you can eliminate alot of the uh bureaucratic cost
of your supply chain, um, andthen you can optimize for maybe
(09:59):
like higher quality materials oryou know, like all organic or
whatever the customer wants, andyou don't worry as much as the
bureaucracy.
I think it's gonna be reallyhard for the already existing
established companies to do thatprocess, but for a new
up-and-coming company that isbeing built on the age of AI,
they will do that by nature,that's who they are.
And so that is gonna takestability away.
(10:22):
So I think I don't see marketstability because it's gonna be
crazy competition levels that wehaven't seen in a while, and I
don't see regulatory stabilityas well.
So I just I don't think it'sgonna happen.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
No, that's that's a really interesting point.
So for companies that are uhstarting up or or their their
basis has always been intechnology and the latest
technologies, they're thelearning curve curve is just
part of evolving, just generallyspeaking.
They don't have to kind of erasesomething they've already been
(10:55):
using.
And um I that would that wouldalso make them, I would think,
more seamless in theiroperations instead of a company
that's embedded moretraditionally in processes.
Yeah.
Um I I hadn't thought of that.
Thank you.
Uh yeah, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
So they have to adapt, right?
And yeah, I think it's gonna bea very sh big shock.
And I think the shock's gonnacome from when those nascent
companies, and it might take afew years for that to actually
come become concrete, but whenthey start uh biting market
share, and and they would bitemarket share because of
(11:34):
innovative type of strategiesthat were not available before,
um, and that would require acomplete shift of workplace and
and processes around thoseestablished companies.
That's when uh you know thecraziness is gonna start kind of
really kicking in and people aregonna try to react.
But you know, I think uh it'sgonna be interesting to watch.
(11:54):
I think you know the reason whyI moved to America, and one of
the big reasons why I love thiscountry is that you actually
have uh up-and coming brandsbecoming really big and
dominating the market andestablished brands losing their
market share.
And that is why this market isso interesting, right?
Because this is kind of anongoing theme for America.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Yeah, opportunity abounds.
Um, so so at the same timethough, uh companies that
operate faster, um and ifthere's a way for them to do so
and stay lean or hone leanness,I'll say, um that would give
(12:33):
them the competitive edge, no?
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yes.
Uh so new companies they whatI'm saying is they're starting
lean.
Okay.
And they're they're startinglean because they're leveraging
these types of technologies thatallow them to structure without
having to have a huge overheador too much communication and
all that.
For the well-established oldertype companies, it's a little
(12:59):
bit tougher because it's morepainful.
Like, are you gonna just cutthose departments?
Are you gonna uh are you gonnareplace them and put them
somewhere else?
You have to really think aboutthat process and how that looks
like.
There's a lot of work that couldbe replaced and better uh
optimized somewhere else forsure, uh, to become a
differentiator, but then youknow, even by having to think
about that problem, you'relosing on speed.
(13:20):
Um, and then it depends on likehow much speed is really
relevant.
Um, yeah, so anyways, so there'sno thoughts.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
So I I wanted to mention something.
I I saw it um in the last day orso.
Uh something going on withAutrify and AI Academy and
Google, and is there somethinggoing on with you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Um so we yeah, so we gotadmitted to the uh um Google uh
AI Academy for AmericanManufacturing, which is a uh
super cool program that gets usto work with a lot of the folks
at Google that are buildingthese edge technologies uh to
really enable us to build thebest systems that will give the
(14:03):
market uh the best products uhfrom that supply chain
perspective.
And um and yeah, so we we uh gotaccepted in the program.
There's a handful of companiesthat got selected, and it's
really looking at the future ofAmerican infrastructure,
manufacturing in America, all ofthat.
How does that shape up with theinnovations and technologies
that are required to enable thatto become a reality?
(14:24):
And so that's awesome.
Uh it's very exciting for us.
Uh yeah, I have a lot of plansof things that we're trying to
do there.
Happy to talk more about that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Oh, we we look forward to um seeing seeing them
roll out.
But I I do want to ask yousomething I don't want to
forget, and we touched on it, orI touched on it early on in the
beginning of the show.
Um, so we've got that deadlinecoming up for the SMA SMA,
sorry, FSMA 204 requirements umJanuary of 2026.
(14:55):
And uh I guess it's the foodmanufacturers have to be able to
trace every critical trackingevent from harvest all the way
through delivery and do that inunder 24 hours.
Um do you think the industry isgonna be ready to make that
happen?
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Yeah.
Yeah?
No?
No, yeah, let me think about it.
Um I I I feel like theregulation and uh it's been a
while since I last looked at it,but I feel like it was uh uh
postponed and then it was kindof like uh phased or something,
and so there is like some phasedapproach to it and depends on
(15:38):
which industry you're onspecifically on the food and
beverage, so it's not gonna beapplicable to every single uh
manufacturer out there, itreally depends on like what your
manufacturing is.
There's a few uh nuances tothat, but um but in general,
let's say you know this comes uptomorrow.
I don't think the industry isgonna be ready because uh of all
the other craziness that ishappening, right?
So yeah, so you have all thisstuff that is going on with food
(16:01):
colouring, trade tariffs, um thenew tech that I was just talking
about for half an hour.
Um you have all that stuffcoming up, and then you also
have the traceability.
Uh I think the new tech goesreally well with the
traceability needs, but it alsotakes time for the companies
that need to be compliant toimplement that new tech.
(16:23):
And so if you come up tomorrow,if you come up, you know,
beginning of 2026, uh then youknow that's like five months
away from now.
I I I would think that the firstfew audits, the best that the
let's say someone today sayslike, hey, I'm officially gonna
be announced, I'm gonna beaudited starting this day.
(16:43):
If let's say you come to UltraFitoday and they're like, hey, um
we're gonna be uh starting toget inspected January 1st of
2026.
Uh we have five months.
If we kick something off today,I think we can still do it by
leveraging a lot of the AIworkflows that we have built to
um map which uh materials arecoming in and when they're
(17:06):
coming in.
But there's gonna be some levelsof uh you know people learning
and adapting to maybe some likethe data from the past few years
and then pushing that data fromthe past few years into our
standardized format.
Uh that we could still do it,but it would be a rush for sure.
Yeah.
And so and so I'm thinking aboutthat and looking across the
market and seeing a lot ofcompanies that aren't doing it
yet, and and and they also haveto deal with all this new stuff
(17:29):
around the trade tariffs,competition, AI for marketing,
all those kinds of things.
Uh, I don't think that we'll beready.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
So with this reliance on technology that is
only going to grow, um, how longdo you think it's gonna take um
for the uh across the professionto kind of cross over from a
predominantly human-guidedsupply chain decision metric,
right?
Um, over to trust it more andmore solely based on AI?
(18:01):
Is it gonna take uh you knowfive years?
Are we gonna push that out alittle more?
Are we gonna give AI integrationa pause at some point, do you
think, or is it just completelyfull steam ahead?
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
I think it's full steam ahead.
I don't think we can stop it.
Uh we just had like uh I thinkGroc 4 was just released uh
yesterday or two days ago now,and um they were covering PhD
level intelligence at mostdomains across like physics,
mathematics, and all those kindsof things.
(18:38):
And and so when you can imaginelike one imagine you have one
person in the company that has aPhD knowledge in every single
domain, yeah, uh, and works 24-7and don't stop.
Uh and then imagine that you canbreak that knowledge into a lot
of little small targetedproblems that you're running
through all the time.
Um it's very disruptive.
(19:00):
And and I don't think it's gonnastop being disruptive.
Um because with the technologyis only evolving, and then when
you get into robotics and thenrobotics starts having sensors
that also further train the AI,that's just like you know, it's
explosion of knowledge and it'sgonna be a lot is gonna happen.
Um and so I don't think we'regonna get to uh uh a point of uh
(19:24):
stability.
Um and I feel like the timeframe so okay, so let's go
through some of the stuff thatI've been thinking about.
Okay, thanks for for disruption.
So uh take the pesticide exampleI just gave you, right?
Let's say you're a bigmultinational company and you
have uh 10,000 uh ingredients ormaterials that you use on your
(19:48):
supply chain, and uh you havefor each of those materials a
pesticide report that getsupdated every year, every six
months, every two years, howeverfrequently.
And then every time that you dothat, you have to let's say some
of those materials are criticaland you're using across all of
your jurisdictions, so then youhave to put that through a
regulatory team that would thenlook at every single of the
(20:08):
allowed limits of pesticides,compare against legislation,
come back with allowed or notallowed at multiple
jurisdictions.
Uh now the AI can do all thatprocess.
That's the pro that's one of theprocesses that we're covering,
right?
Um so let's say you have the AIthat is able to do that and is
able to do that accurately,which is what we have, um, or
(20:29):
you have the human process thatis, you know, uh it takes time
and and maybe you can do likemultiple checkpoints and things
like that, but it's just likeit's slower and it's more
expensive.
Um with time you're gonna haveto adapt to the uh AI version
because otherwise you're gonnastart losing competitivity.
(20:51):
Um let me give you a differentexample of a vision.
I I think in five years buyingand selling is gonna be run by
machines because machines arebetter negotiated than humans if
you give them the rightparameters, and I think we can
uh there is a classical likechess player exam where you know
the chess players used to becompeting against chess players,
and then the machines came inand started kind of competing
(21:12):
against chess players, and thenwith time uh the machines were
only competing with machinesbecause the traditional best
chess player in the worldcouldn't beat the machine
anymore.
Uh we're gonna have similarstyle kind of scenario happening
to buying and selling.
And so it's probably gonna beirresponsible to let the machine
to let a human do the buying andselling, not a machine.
The machines are just gonna buyand sell from each other.
But now you have all this otherstuff which is human built, like
(21:34):
the legislations and thequalities and all those kinds of
uh areas that we really careabout, but maybe they're not
around uh strategies ofnegotiation.
Um so those are gonna be thebottlenecks.
Because those would go by humanspeed.
So now then you have a companylike Ultrafy coming in and say,
actually we can automate thatand then maybe we can you know
do that in a few hours insteadof like a few months, and
(21:55):
fraction of cost, and you'reable to continue moving your
procurement processautomatically.
So that's really the vision thatI think is gonna happen in the
next five years and it's verydisruptive.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
I'll say.
Um so so uh as we're workingtowards um generating greater
speed in production, dataanalysis, and helping us make
decisions faster and faster.
Are there risks in doing that?
Um or no?
I I I mean I Yeah.
(22:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
Like Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So okay.
So let's go back to the examplethat I just gave.
Let's say you unleash aprocurement AGI in the world,
right?
So this machine is a procurementexpert and is it has the best
negotiation methodology to getyou to get you the best price
every single time.
There's a lot of stuff that goeson that procurement process,
(22:50):
which is not only pricing.
But if you think about it verysimplistically, I think the
first thing the machine is gonnado is maybe be a great
negotiator.
Let's say we unleash that on theworld and you know, traditional
companies just start buyingstuff uh faster and saying,
like, hey, look at how muchmoney I'm saving.
But at the same time, by doingthat, they're taking all these
(23:12):
additional risks, which beforewe had human um many mediators
that kind of like, you know,didn't let that happen because
you had those processes.
If we don't consider thoseadditional processes that are
vital to maintaining afunctional, low-risk, uh
stabilized supply chain, thenthe we're gonna be bringing
additional risks to thecustomer.
(23:33):
And I actually think that'sgonna happen.
I think we're gonna have somecompanies that will put the cars
before the horses and we'll seethat happening where you know
they unleash tech that maybedidn't consider all the
variables, and because of thatwe had a worse outcome.
I don't think it's the fault ofthe technology.
The technology is gonna do whatit's been designed to do.
It's the fault of the person whois unleashing it without
(23:55):
thinking about the variables.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah, sometimes you know we get so focused on the
outcomes that we so much want tosee that we um kind of s leave
off some of the things we needto pay attention to.
It's just human nature, Isuppose.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Um depends on who's in charge, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Yeah, that too.
Um so I'm just you know, I thinkon you know where we're at today
and kind of looking forward, howare things gonna look during the
holiday season um and the impactto retail?
So with the tariffs and allregulations, all the things
(24:34):
going on, suppliers are havingto make adjustments,
manufacturers are makingadjustments, and while some of
them may choose to compromisequality to get around higher
cost, or ultimately the consumeris gonna end up paying the price
literally and figuratively, um,it's probably gonna impact the
(24:54):
customer experience and maybeeven you know kind of uh risk
the brand trust that they'vecome to know.
Um is there any way around thatas we're working towards you
know making things happen fasterand getting that competitive
edge and trying to get aroundhaving to own the increase in
(25:18):
cost?
I mean, is there any way acompany can get around all the
things that we're having to dealwith right now?
And is is the answer technologyand more technology?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
I mean, um I don't think they can get a I don't
think anyone so there might beways to get around uh a lot of
tariffs, but not a ways to getaround tariffs in general.
I don't think that's gonna be apossibility.
Yeah, yeah.
Um and so there is gonna beadditional cost anyways.
Now you could uh probablyaddress that by cutting
(25:53):
unnecessary expenses uh whereyou could on like processes that
maybe could be re uh replaced bytechnology.
Uh and then maybe instead ofspending the effort there, then
you spend those additionalresources in like more sales or
something.
So I think it's just like uhdedication of how those
resources are gonna be be uhoptimized.
I don't see a way that itdoesn't translate to more
(26:15):
expensive products though, uh inthe in the short term.
Yeah.
Um look, I I come I grew up inin Brazil, like that's my uh the
place of birth.
And and I grew up around the uhidea of tariffs, right?
Because like Brazil has so manytariffs.
Yeah.
And and the price of the iPhoneand the price of like a computer
(26:39):
in Brazil, it it's not as badanymore because we actually had
some cuts over the past decade.
But it used to be like three,four times the price of buying
it in America, uh, because ofall the tariffs.
And so and so I remember thatpeople would rather get flights
to Florida, go to spend a weekin the beach and Disneyland and
all that, and buy theircomputers, and they would come
(27:00):
back home and be like, Okay,this was cheaper than buying my
computer uh here in my hometown.
Yeah.
And so it just took uh uh youknow, I think uh customer
behavior evolves and customersthat have money and resources,
they are not dumb, they'resmart, and they would make the
best choices for them.
Um and the conscious customer,which is like cost-sensitive
(27:23):
customer, uh, they will probablybuy the cheaper options.
You know, they probably startgoing for uh cost optimization,
whether that's through like Ibuy a large quantity or I buy a
lower quality, or I buy from thebrand that doesn't have a brand
but it's cheaper.
So the you know, like all the umuh private label kind of
(27:46):
scenario and like the uhKirkland by Costco or 365 by
Amazon, whatever that is, uhwe're gonna I think we're gonna
see more explosion of thosetypes of brands.
SPEAKER_00 (27:58):
There's that adaptability that we were
talking about earlier.
Um so if if we've got if uhbusinesses like you know the
ultimate goal is you know wehave to increase speed in all
things, and we continue toincrease that speed year over
year.
I'm just wondering, with allthis, where exactly do we want
to arrive?
(28:18):
What's the destination pointwith this quest for more speed?
Or or or is is there is there nodestination?
It's just kind of a continuum.
SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
I guess like human nature, we just want to do more
with less and have more.
As long as we have newtechnology, let's say we can go
mine in the moon or mine in anasteroid, and now we have all
the gold available and you knowwe can make things cheaper.
I I we would do it because weare humans and we want to
explore and we want to uh buildmore, better.
(28:53):
We want to leave our mark inhistory.
And I don't think it stops us.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
I I I'm I'm I'm thinking about uh a few years
ago there was a very for a timethere was a very popular poster
that you know we would buy andstick up on the wall.
And it was uh I if I recallright, it was a picture of a um
uh a man, you know, with youknow really nice suit on, lots
(29:18):
of jewelry, the cool sunglasses,and he's standing, it looks like
it's probably his mansion, andthere's a bunch of really cool
different cars all around him,and and at the top it says, He
who has the most toys wins.
And so it that it just somethingyou said just brought that to
(29:39):
mind, and it's just we just wantmore, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Well, you didn't you have to define winning, right?
I I guess like then that gets onmy this is my my personal view
on uh on my philosophy is Iactually I think we should be
striving to build the best wecan and do as much as we can
because that makes societybetter off, but it doesn't mean
that we are doing it to havemore things, right?
Okay, I actually I actually feellike I personally do it because
it's my passion, I love doingit.
(30:03):
I am a builder, that's what Ido, right?
If I have the opportunity, Ifeel like the more clients, the
more users, the more uh teammembers that I have, that is the
higher impact that my vision ofwhat the a better world will
look like um has, and it's likemore of making that a reality.
So that's why I do it.
I uh I don't think we should doit for things because I don't
(30:23):
think you derive happiness fromthings.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
There you go.
Good place, good place to closeout this episode.
This is really fun.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your yourthoughts and sharing with us.
Um Lucas Cuna, CEO andco-founder of Autrify.
If anyone wants to get in touchwith you and have their own
conversation with you, what'sthe best way for them to do so?
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Yeah, they can go to our website.
There is a um uh button that youcan click and and you can send
us a request.
Uh otherwise, if you just wantto brainstorm, exchange ideas,
you can find me on LinkedIn.
Uh our company name is Autrify OT R A F Y.
Just type my name in uh Autrifyand you'll find me there.
Just uh shout out for theepisode here, and I'll accept
your invite and we can talk.
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
Okay, thank you.
Really appreciate it, Lucas.
Uh and uh if you want to kind ofget more adept at working harder
and faster, just like we've beentalking about, you know, you
gotta update your skills, right?
Upskill.
Uh we can help you do that.
You go to ismworld.org, checkout the training and
certifications drop-down menu.
(31:27):
We've got a boatload of coursesand uh workshops and and so much
more to get you uh up to speed,pun intended.
Thanks for tuning in.
I'm Melanie Stern.
Have a great rest of your day.
Good to see you.
So good to see you.
Glad you decided to hang outwith us again today if it's your
first time.
Welcome, supply chainunfiltered.
It's what we do over here andtalk about everything and
everything, anything you canthink of related to supply
chain, logistics, procurement,all the good stuff.
And with us today we have LucasKuna.
(00:32):
He's CEO and co-founder ofAutravi, and I'll let him kind
of share little details aboutwhat he does day to day.
But to kind of set up today'sshow, I'm sure you find yourself
and the people around you atwork is just everyone is so darn
busy, right?
And you've got to cram all thestuff in and get it all done.
(00:57):
And the deadlines just keepcoming faster and faster.
And so when Lucas and I hadchatted a while ago, we were
going to, you know, kind ofcover the what's going on with
the upcoming FSMA 204requirements related to uh the
food industry.
And we're going to get to thatin a little bit here.
But when he and I were chatting,he uh Lucas had kind of
(01:21):
mentioned that he was justreally struck by how important
adaptability is and why it isyou know key to helping us
survive in today's businesslandscape.
So we're gonna uh get to that,Lucas.
I want uh you to address that ina second, but welcome to the
show.
SPEAKER_01 (01:41):
Hi, Melanie, thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:43):
Hi, hi, good to see you.
Um so I just wondered from yourperspective what can you can you
recall what led you to thisrealization about the importance
of adaptability today?
SPEAKER_01 (02:01):
Yeah, um well, so I think it's a little bit of my
background.
I always thought it was reallyimportant.
Um I I never really thought thatyou know uh at the rate of uh
technology evolution, um, it'sonly gone up um from our
parents' generation, ourgrandparents' generation.
(02:21):
And we're now at a stage whereit's you know it's uh explosive
intelligence coming, and so it'suh we have to adapt fast.
I feel like you know, in thepast you could uh do the same
process the same way for yourentire life.
Uh and and you know that wouldbe your your life and your job
(02:41):
and your career, but that's nolonger a luxury that we have uh
because of the rate of changewith technology.
We just have to adapt reallyfast in uh everything that we
do.
We have to learn new technologyso that we stay in touch with
our families, we have to learnnew technology so that we stay
competitive with uh othercompanies and other people doing
the same services that we are,or if we're in the job market,
we have to stay uh adaptable sothat we still are relevant to
(03:03):
that job market.
Um and so I think you knowadaptability uh it's it's
everything.
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
And can you give us a little uh a snippet about um
what Autrify is?
SPEAKER_01 (03:16):
Yeah, of course.
So um we started off as a uhsupplier management company, uh
so basically helping uh food andbeverage and manufacturing
companies optimize supplier datacollection.
And we evolved and we always itwas kind of a transformation,
not an evolution.
Uh we were always looking atways to optimize those data
(03:38):
exchanges between buyers andsellers by leveraging the best
technology.
Um like you know, artificialintelligence always been a part
of it, uh OCR and it extractionfrom PDFs and papers, uh, it's
always been a part of it.
Um into now what we're doing isuh you know all inclusive,
comprehensive workflows that areable to uh collect data from
(04:00):
suppliers, connect that datawith international regulations,
see if you're compliant andready to go into different
markets for different use casesand different strategies.
Uh so one uh great example herewould be like you know,
pesticide levels, for example.
Pesticide levels, the permittedlevels of pesticides in
different countries aredifferent.
Uh and so if you are using wheatflour in the manufacturing of a
(04:22):
final product, then that uhwheat flour is gonna be tested
by pest for pesticides, uh, andand then you're gonna have to
compare that pesticide testingresults, which is usually like a
three, four hundred uh types ofpesticides plus, uh, against the
regulation in the US.
Uh it was like uh Title 40 anduh subsection 180 or something.
(04:43):
Um when you're comparing that,you're gonna have to do a lot of
uh very uh complex andknowledge-based processes, and
then if you go into Europe, youhave to do the same, and if you
go into Brazil, you have to dothe same.
And so every jurisdiction youwant to go after, you're gonna
have to get the knowledge orfigure out if what you're doing
is compliant or not, uh and ifyou can do that or not.
Uh so what we do is we build allthis uh amazing AI that is able
(05:05):
to uh analyze first the level ofcompliance on the materials that
you're purchasing and then putit against uh the desirable
level of compliance from whereyou're gonna be selling it to or
what the requirements are forthe material uh and and give you
uh statuses updates.
Uh whether if it's like youknow, can you make sure that
this product is really organic?
Uh can you you claim uhpesticide free in the EU?
(05:28):
Uh can you you know uh can youclaim that there is no PFAS in
here?
Is uh one of the chemicals thatwe use here a PFAS?
Is there any uh food coloring?
Uh all of those uh scenarios uhour platform can be used to um
analyze, optimize, and come backwith answers uh for everyday
supply chain operators.
SPEAKER_00 (05:49):
And uh has that process become I'll I'll say
kind of dizzy uh with theconstant change of tariffs.
You know, I guess uh we got somenew news overnight that the the
numbers um being um given fordifferent for Canada, I believe,
had just shifted.
(06:10):
And uh I expect more of that.
So I I would imagine that inorder to keep keep current and
keep the the the pace, the quickpace that we're looking for, um
you have to rely on technologyright now.
SPEAKER_01 (06:24):
Yeah, it's super interesting.
When you first reach out to me,it it's uh a few months ago, I
guess, right?
Yeah, um, I I feel like it wasbefore the announcements and and
uh I think Fisma was still superrelevant.
Yeah.
Uh and so uh you know it's funnyhow Fisma still is really
relevant, but I guess like withwhat's going on, people just
(06:46):
have to focus on figuring outhow to get their their processes
right.
Yeah.
Uh and so we what I'm seeing alot of my uh large enterprise
customers are spending a lot oftheir time on um look for those
food colorings and trying tofind replacements and trying to
find if those replacements arelegally able to do the same that
(07:07):
the other ones were.
Right.
Different jurisdictions, andthen trying to um figure out how
you buy those, but then you alsodeal with trade tariffs because
maybe they were coming fromBrazil or from Canada, and now
you don't know how much you'regonna have to pay for them
anymore.
Um, so yeah, those supply chainsare very messy.
And uh I like to think we givethem a helpful hand to uh let
(07:27):
them be able to, you know, atleast have some level of sanity
and continue to operate.
SPEAKER_00 (07:31):
Yeah, we need all the how we need all the helpful
hands we can get right now.
Um so in so in this uh you knowprocess of learning to adapt and
doing so um as as quickly aspossible, we still want, I I
would imagine we still want tofind some realm of stability.
Um the way things are right now,do you think that's even
(07:55):
possible for supply chains toaspire to?
And if so, how do you think wecan get there into some
stability?
SPEAKER_01 (08:04):
Um I don't think we're gonna get there.
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Okay.
I appreciate your realism.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (08:13):
I don't think we're gonna get there.
Um I think that um the the wholepush to you know manufacture in
America, I actually think it'spossible if we do that with a
lot of automation, robotics, andand AI in the process.
Uh which will be superinteresting to see play out.
So I but I do feel like it'spossible.
(08:33):
Now that said, uh that is gonnamake uh US manufacturing in
general have to evolve faster,and so stability is not gonna be
a luxury we're gonna have fromthat standpoint.
But then I also look at theother standpoint, which is um so
that's like uh I'm thinkingabout that as like governance,
government, all that kind ofstuff, right?
(08:54):
I don't see stability comingfrom there.
Uh I I can't say it's bad orgood, I just don't see
stability, right?
Um on the other side, I look atthe speed of uh technology
evolution as I was mentioning inthe beginning, yeah.
And and I think AI, the uh speedof AI, uh the knowledge uh that
uh agents are having, the waysthat they organize, like all
(09:17):
those kinds of things, it'sexplosive.
It's uh it's a lot.
I try to keep up.
I try to read a lot of uh PhDtype publications and keep in
touch with a lot of friends whoare in the industry.
We are a part of some reallycool programs with uh companies
like Microsoft, Google, uh thatkind of like you know get us to
have a lot of those niceconversations.
(09:37):
But the rate of speed ofdevelopment there is not gonna
stop in the foreseeable future,and uh it's gonna be a market
opportunity for newcomers tokind of enter markets that were
before dominated by establishedplayers, right?
So let's say you can eliminate alot of the uh bureaucratic cost
of your supply chain, um, andthen you can optimize for maybe
(09:59):
like higher quality materials oryou know, like all organic or
whatever the customer wants, andyou don't worry as much as the
bureaucracy.
I think it's gonna be reallyhard for the already existing
established companies to do thatprocess, but for a new
up-and-coming company that isbeing built on the age of AI,
they will do that by nature,that's who they are.
And so that is gonna takestability away.
(10:22):
So I think I don't see marketstability because it's gonna be
crazy competition levels that wehaven't seen in a while, and I
don't see regulatory stabilityas well.
So I just I don't think it'sgonna happen.
SPEAKER_00 (10:32):
No, that's that's a really interesting point.
So for companies that are uhstarting up or or their their
basis has always been intechnology and the latest
technologies, they're thelearning curve curve is just
part of evolving, just generallyspeaking.
They don't have to kind of erasesomething they've already been
(10:55):
using.
And um I that would that wouldalso make them, I would think,
more seamless in theiroperations instead of a company
that's embedded moretraditionally in processes.
Yeah.
Um I I hadn't thought of that.
Thank you.
Uh yeah, that's pretty cool.
SPEAKER_01 (11:13):
So they have to adapt, right?
And yeah, I think it's gonna bea very sh big shock.
And I think the shock's gonnacome from when those nascent
companies, and it might take afew years for that to actually
come become concrete, but whenthey start uh biting market
share, and and they would bitemarket share because of
(11:34):
innovative type of strategiesthat were not available before,
um, and that would require acomplete shift of workplace and
and processes around thoseestablished companies.
That's when uh you know thecraziness is gonna start kind of
really kicking in and people aregonna try to react.
But you know, I think uh it'sgonna be interesting to watch.
(11:54):
I think you know the reason whyI moved to America, and one of
the big reasons why I love thiscountry is that you actually
have uh up-and coming brandsbecoming really big and
dominating the market andestablished brands losing their
market share.
And that is why this market isso interesting, right?
Because this is kind of anongoing theme for America.
SPEAKER_00 (12:11):
Yeah, opportunity abounds.
Um, so so at the same timethough, uh companies that
operate faster, um and ifthere's a way for them to do so
and stay lean or hone leanness,I'll say, um that would give
(12:33):
them the competitive edge, no?
SPEAKER_01 (12:38):
Yes.
Uh so new companies they whatI'm saying is they're starting
lean.
Okay.
And they're they're startinglean because they're leveraging
these types of technologies thatallow them to structure without
having to have a huge overheador too much communication and
all that.
For the well-established oldertype companies, it's a little
(12:59):
bit tougher because it's morepainful.
Like, are you gonna just cutthose departments?
Are you gonna uh are you gonnareplace them and put them
somewhere else?
You have to really think aboutthat process and how that looks
like.
There's a lot of work that couldbe replaced and better uh
optimized somewhere else forsure, uh, to become a
differentiator, but then youknow, even by having to think
about that problem, you'relosing on speed.
(13:20):
Um, and then it depends on likehow much speed is really
relevant.
Um, yeah, so anyways, so there'sno thoughts.
SPEAKER_00 (13:27):
So I I wanted to mention something.
I I saw it um in the last day orso.
Uh something going on withAutrify and AI Academy and
Google, and is there somethinggoing on with you?
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
Um so we yeah, so we gotadmitted to the uh um Google uh
AI Academy for AmericanManufacturing, which is a uh
super cool program that gets usto work with a lot of the folks
at Google that are buildingthese edge technologies uh to
really enable us to build thebest systems that will give the
(14:03):
market uh the best products uhfrom that supply chain
perspective.
And um and yeah, so we we uh gotaccepted in the program.
There's a handful of companiesthat got selected, and it's
really looking at the future ofAmerican infrastructure,
manufacturing in America, all ofthat.
How does that shape up with theinnovations and technologies
that are required to enable thatto become a reality?
(14:24):
And so that's awesome.
Uh it's very exciting for us.
Uh yeah, I have a lot of plansof things that we're trying to
do there.
Happy to talk more about that.
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Oh, we we look forward to um seeing seeing them
roll out.
But I I do want to ask yousomething I don't want to
forget, and we touched on it, orI touched on it early on in the
beginning of the show.
Um, so we've got that deadlinecoming up for the SMA SMA,
sorry, FSMA 204 requirements umJanuary of 2026.
(14:55):
And uh I guess it's the foodmanufacturers have to be able to
trace every critical trackingevent from harvest all the way
through delivery and do that inunder 24 hours.
Um do you think the industry isgonna be ready to make that
happen?
SPEAKER_01 (15:16):
Yeah.
Yeah?
No?
No, yeah, let me think about it.
Um I I I feel like theregulation and uh it's been a
while since I last looked at it,but I feel like it was uh uh
postponed and then it was kindof like uh phased or something,
and so there is like some phasedapproach to it and depends on
(15:38):
which industry you're onspecifically on the food and
beverage, so it's not gonna beapplicable to every single uh
manufacturer out there, itreally depends on like what your
manufacturing is.
There's a few uh nuances tothat, but um but in general,
let's say you know this comes uptomorrow.
I don't think the industry isgonna be ready because uh of all
the other craziness that ishappening, right?
So yeah, so you have all thisstuff that is going on with food
(16:01):
colouring, trade tariffs, um thenew tech that I was just talking
about for half an hour.
Um you have all that stuffcoming up, and then you also
have the traceability.
Uh I think the new tech goesreally well with the
traceability needs, but it alsotakes time for the companies
that need to be compliant toimplement that new tech.
(16:23):
And so if you come up tomorrow,if you come up, you know,
beginning of 2026, uh then youknow that's like five months
away from now.
I I I would think that the firstfew audits, the best that the
let's say someone today sayslike, hey, I'm officially gonna
be announced, I'm gonna beaudited starting this day.
(16:43):
If let's say you come to UltraFitoday and they're like, hey, um
we're gonna be uh starting toget inspected January 1st of
2026.
Uh we have five months.
If we kick something off today,I think we can still do it by
leveraging a lot of the AIworkflows that we have built to
um map which uh materials arecoming in and when they're
(17:06):
coming in.
But there's gonna be some levelsof uh you know people learning
and adapting to maybe some likethe data from the past few years
and then pushing that data fromthe past few years into our
standardized format.
Uh that we could still do it,but it would be a rush for sure.
Yeah.
And so and so I'm thinking aboutthat and looking across the
market and seeing a lot ofcompanies that aren't doing it
yet, and and and they also haveto deal with all this new stuff
(17:29):
around the trade tariffs,competition, AI for marketing,
all those kinds of things.
Uh, I don't think that we'll beready.
SPEAKER_00 (17:36):
So with this reliance on technology that is
only going to grow, um, how longdo you think it's gonna take um
for the uh across the professionto kind of cross over from a
predominantly human-guidedsupply chain decision metric,
right?
Um, over to trust it more andmore solely based on AI?
(18:01):
Is it gonna take uh you knowfive years?
Are we gonna push that out alittle more?
Are we gonna give AI integrationa pause at some point, do you
think, or is it just completelyfull steam ahead?
SPEAKER_01 (18:16):
I think it's full steam ahead.
I don't think we can stop it.
Uh we just had like uh I thinkGroc 4 was just released uh
yesterday or two days ago now,and um they were covering PhD
level intelligence at mostdomains across like physics,
mathematics, and all those kindsof things.
(18:38):
And and so when you can imaginelike one imagine you have one
person in the company that has aPhD knowledge in every single
domain, yeah, uh, and works 24-7and don't stop.
Uh and then imagine that you canbreak that knowledge into a lot
of little small targetedproblems that you're running
through all the time.
Um it's very disruptive.
(19:00):
And and I don't think it's gonnastop being disruptive.
Um because with the technologyis only evolving, and then when
you get into robotics and thenrobotics starts having sensors
that also further train the AI,that's just like you know, it's
explosion of knowledge and it'sgonna be a lot is gonna happen.
Um and so I don't think we'regonna get to uh uh a point of uh
(19:24):
stability.
Um and I feel like the timeframe so okay, so let's go
through some of the stuff thatI've been thinking about.
Okay, thanks for for disruption.
So uh take the pesticide exampleI just gave you, right?
Let's say you're a bigmultinational company and you
have uh 10,000 uh ingredients ormaterials that you use on your
(19:48):
supply chain, and uh you havefor each of those materials a
pesticide report that getsupdated every year, every six
months, every two years, howeverfrequently.
And then every time that you dothat, you have to let's say some
of those materials are criticaland you're using across all of
your jurisdictions, so then youhave to put that through a
regulatory team that would thenlook at every single of the
(20:08):
allowed limits of pesticides,compare against legislation,
come back with allowed or notallowed at multiple
jurisdictions.
Uh now the AI can do all thatprocess.
That's the pro that's one of theprocesses that we're covering,
right?
Um so let's say you have the AIthat is able to do that and is
able to do that accurately,which is what we have, um, or
(20:29):
you have the human process thatis, you know, uh it takes time
and and maybe you can do likemultiple checkpoints and things
like that, but it's just likeit's slower and it's more
expensive.
Um with time you're gonna haveto adapt to the uh AI version
because otherwise you're gonnastart losing competitivity.
(20:51):
Um let me give you a differentexample of a vision.
I I think in five years buyingand selling is gonna be run by
machines because machines arebetter negotiated than humans if
you give them the rightparameters, and I think we can
uh there is a classical likechess player exam where you know
the chess players used to becompeting against chess players,
and then the machines came inand started kind of competing
(21:12):
against chess players, and thenwith time uh the machines were
only competing with machinesbecause the traditional best
chess player in the worldcouldn't beat the machine
anymore.
Uh we're gonna have similarstyle kind of scenario happening
to buying and selling.
And so it's probably gonna beirresponsible to let the machine
to let a human do the buying andselling, not a machine.
The machines are just gonna buyand sell from each other.
But now you have all this otherstuff which is human built, like
(21:34):
the legislations and thequalities and all those kinds of
uh areas that we really careabout, but maybe they're not
around uh strategies ofnegotiation.
Um so those are gonna be thebottlenecks.
Because those would go by humanspeed.
So now then you have a companylike Ultrafy coming in and say,
actually we can automate thatand then maybe we can you know
do that in a few hours insteadof like a few months, and
(21:55):
fraction of cost, and you'reable to continue moving your
procurement processautomatically.
So that's really the vision thatI think is gonna happen in the
next five years and it's verydisruptive.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
I'll say.
Um so so uh as we're workingtowards um generating greater
speed in production, dataanalysis, and helping us make
decisions faster and faster.
Are there risks in doing that?
Um or no?
I I I mean I Yeah.
(22:26):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (22:27):
Like Yeah, yeah, for sure.
So okay.
So let's go back to the examplethat I just gave.
Let's say you unleash aprocurement AGI in the world,
right?
So this machine is a procurementexpert and is it has the best
negotiation methodology to getyou to get you the best price
every single time.
There's a lot of stuff that goeson that procurement process,
(22:50):
which is not only pricing.
But if you think about it verysimplistically, I think the
first thing the machine is gonnado is maybe be a great
negotiator.
Let's say we unleash that on theworld and you know, traditional
companies just start buyingstuff uh faster and saying,
like, hey, look at how muchmoney I'm saving.
But at the same time, by doingthat, they're taking all these
(23:12):
additional risks, which beforewe had human um many mediators
that kind of like, you know,didn't let that happen because
you had those processes.
If we don't consider thoseadditional processes that are
vital to maintaining afunctional, low-risk, uh
stabilized supply chain, thenthe we're gonna be bringing
additional risks to thecustomer.
(23:33):
And I actually think that'sgonna happen.
I think we're gonna have somecompanies that will put the cars
before the horses and we'll seethat happening where you know
they unleash tech that maybedidn't consider all the
variables, and because of thatwe had a worse outcome.
I don't think it's the fault ofthe technology.
The technology is gonna do whatit's been designed to do.
It's the fault of the person whois unleashing it without
(23:55):
thinking about the variables.
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Yeah, sometimes you know we get so focused on the
outcomes that we so much want tosee that we um kind of s leave
off some of the things we needto pay attention to.
It's just human nature, Isuppose.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
Um depends on who's in charge, right?
SPEAKER_00 (24:12):
Yeah, that too.
Um so I'm just you know, I thinkon you know where we're at today
and kind of looking forward, howare things gonna look during the
holiday season um and the impactto retail?
So with the tariffs and allregulations, all the things
(24:34):
going on, suppliers are havingto make adjustments,
manufacturers are makingadjustments, and while some of
them may choose to compromisequality to get around higher
cost, or ultimately the consumeris gonna end up paying the price
literally and figuratively, um,it's probably gonna impact the
(24:54):
customer experience and maybeeven you know kind of uh risk
the brand trust that they'vecome to know.
Um is there any way around thatas we're working towards you
know making things happen fasterand getting that competitive
edge and trying to get aroundhaving to own the increase in
(25:18):
cost?
I mean, is there any way acompany can get around all the
things that we're having to dealwith right now?
And is is the answer technologyand more technology?
SPEAKER_01 (25:30):
I mean, um I don't think they can get a I don't
think anyone so there might beways to get around uh a lot of
tariffs, but not a ways to getaround tariffs in general.
I don't think that's gonna be apossibility.
Yeah, yeah.
Um and so there is gonna beadditional cost anyways.
Now you could uh probablyaddress that by cutting
(25:53):
unnecessary expenses uh whereyou could on like processes that
maybe could be re uh replaced bytechnology.
Uh and then maybe instead ofspending the effort there, then
you spend those additionalresources in like more sales or
something.
So I think it's just like uhdedication of how those
resources are gonna be be uhoptimized.
I don't see a way that itdoesn't translate to more
(26:15):
expensive products though, uh inthe in the short term.
Yeah.
Um look, I I come I grew up inin Brazil, like that's my uh the
place of birth.
And and I grew up around the uhidea of tariffs, right?
Because like Brazil has so manytariffs.
Yeah.
And and the price of the iPhoneand the price of like a computer
(26:39):
in Brazil, it it's not as badanymore because we actually had
some cuts over the past decade.
But it used to be like three,four times the price of buying
it in America, uh, because ofall the tariffs.
And so and so I remember thatpeople would rather get flights
to Florida, go to spend a weekin the beach and Disneyland and
all that, and buy theircomputers, and they would come
(27:00):
back home and be like, Okay,this was cheaper than buying my
computer uh here in my hometown.
Yeah.
And so it just took uh uh youknow, I think uh customer
behavior evolves and customersthat have money and resources,
they are not dumb, they'resmart, and they would make the
best choices for them.
Um and the conscious customer,which is like cost-sensitive
(27:23):
customer, uh, they will probablybuy the cheaper options.
You know, they probably startgoing for uh cost optimization,
whether that's through like Ibuy a large quantity or I buy a
lower quality, or I buy from thebrand that doesn't have a brand
but it's cheaper.
So the you know, like all the umuh private label kind of
(27:46):
scenario and like the uhKirkland by Costco or 365 by
Amazon, whatever that is, uhwe're gonna I think we're gonna
see more explosion of thosetypes of brands.
SPEAKER_00 (27:58):
There's that adaptability that we were
talking about earlier.
Um so if if we've got if uhbusinesses like you know the
ultimate goal is you know wehave to increase speed in all
things, and we continue toincrease that speed year over
year.
I'm just wondering, with allthis, where exactly do we want
to arrive?
(28:18):
What's the destination pointwith this quest for more speed?
Or or or is is there is there nodestination?
It's just kind of a continuum.
SPEAKER_01 (28:32):
I guess like human nature, we just want to do more
with less and have more.
As long as we have newtechnology, let's say we can go
mine in the moon or mine in anasteroid, and now we have all
the gold available and you knowwe can make things cheaper.
I I we would do it because weare humans and we want to
explore and we want to uh buildmore, better.
(28:53):
We want to leave our mark inhistory.
And I don't think it stops us.
SPEAKER_00 (28:57):
I I I'm I'm I'm thinking about uh a few years
ago there was a very for a timethere was a very popular poster
that you know we would buy andstick up on the wall.
And it was uh I if I recallright, it was a picture of a um
uh a man, you know, with youknow really nice suit on, lots
(29:18):
of jewelry, the cool sunglasses,and he's standing, it looks like
it's probably his mansion, andthere's a bunch of really cool
different cars all around him,and and at the top it says, He
who has the most toys wins.
And so it that it just somethingyou said just brought that to
(29:39):
mind, and it's just we just wantmore, right?
SPEAKER_01 (29:41):
Well, you didn't you have to define winning, right?
I I guess like then that gets onmy this is my my personal view
on uh on my philosophy is Iactually I think we should be
striving to build the best wecan and do as much as we can
because that makes societybetter off, but it doesn't mean
that we are doing it to havemore things, right?
Okay, I actually I actually feellike I personally do it because
it's my passion, I love doingit.
(30:03):
I am a builder, that's what Ido, right?
If I have the opportunity, Ifeel like the more clients, the
more users, the more uh teammembers that I have, that is the
higher impact that my vision ofwhat the a better world will
look like um has, and it's likemore of making that a reality.
So that's why I do it.
I uh I don't think we should doit for things because I don't
(30:23):
think you derive happiness fromthings.
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (30:26):
There you go.
Good place, good place to closeout this episode.
This is really fun.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate your yourthoughts and sharing with us.
Um Lucas Cuna, CEO andco-founder of Autrify.
If anyone wants to get in touchwith you and have their own
conversation with you, what'sthe best way for them to do so?
SPEAKER_01 (30:45):
Yeah, they can go to our website.
There is a um uh button that youcan click and and you can send
us a request.
Uh otherwise, if you just wantto brainstorm, exchange ideas,
you can find me on LinkedIn.
Uh our company name is Autrify OT R A F Y.
Just type my name in uh Autrifyand you'll find me there.
Just uh shout out for theepisode here, and I'll accept
your invite and we can talk.
SPEAKER_00 (31:06):
Okay, thank you.
Really appreciate it, Lucas.
Uh and uh if you want to kind ofget more adept at working harder
and faster, just like we've beentalking about, you know, you
gotta update your skills, right?
Upskill.
Uh we can help you do that.
You go to ismworld.org, checkout the training and
certifications drop-down menu.
(31:27):
We've got a boatload of coursesand uh workshops and and so much
more to get you uh up to speed,pun intended.
Thanks for tuning in.
I'm Melanie Stern.
Have a great rest of your day.
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