May 22, 2024 • 56 mins
Mo & Rho break down the game 1 choke job we just watched from Indiana and if they have a chance to bounce back. Who actually wants to win the east? We also discuss what we expect to see in the west throughout the series. How has the most to gain by winning a championship and who has the most to lose?
It’s safe to say we do NOT agree on everyone so come listen in and let us know your thoughts!
There is so much to discuss so join us for season 2 episode 21 of the Swishlist Podcast!!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
All right, everybody.
Season two, episode 21 comingoff of game one, Indiana Pacers
versus the Boston Celtics.
A choke job from your guy,Tyrese Halliburton, a choke job
from your guy, my guy, when hedoesn't play well, we still win
game seven.
Your guy, when he doesn't playwell, turns the ball over and
you lose.
Uh, just saying, we're going tojump right into it.
(00:23):
the game tonight, and we'regonna talk a lot about really
the final teams that areremaining.
I know it's been a few days, butanybody that's been listening to
us, I know they're gonna want tocatch up here, hear what we
think, because they know thatme, I am Mr Minnesota.
My Timberwolves are going to thefinals.
I've been waiting for this formy whole life, waiting for this
my whole life, and it's finallygonna happen.
(00:43):
But before we get into anyMinnesota conversations, we have
to talk about the game that wejust watched.
Indiana had it.
They literally had it and theychoked it away, handed the game
to him, handed the game to thenumber one team in NBA.
The only thing, only thing Ineeded the Pacers to do was just
steal one game.
(01:04):
Oh my gosh.
You steal, you steal one ofthose games and then they're
bound to win one at home.
Yes.
Yes, my thing with this serieswas if the Pacers were going to
not win a game at TD Garden,then it was going to be a five
game series.
They were going to steal one athome, go back.
If they could have stolen that,you go back to Boston and this
(01:27):
could go seven, just like itwent in New York.
Yeah, it could be 2 2.
2 2, then it's a 3 2, you getone back at home, game seven.
In TD garden, you know, but theylost this game and we'll see how
game two goes.
But this, they gave the, theygave the game to the number one
team.
You just handed it to them.
(01:48):
So many opportunities to closethe game out and they just gave
it to them.
And people are going to talkabout the foul, uh, the free
throw line disparity, but, uh,that's just style of basketball.
At this point, it's the samething with the Lakers.
Uh, the way the Pacers play is,you know, They shoot a lot.
They drive and but, but theygot, they drive.
They didn't, they didn't, theydidn't get a free, they shot a
(02:10):
free throw at with five minutesand I think 56 seconds in the
first quarter and didn't shootanother free throw until the
fourth quarter.
It's'cause they don't drive atthe hoop like that.
But they've got bigs that arelike, what are we, what are we
talking about?
Miles, Turner shoots the ball.
What are we talking about?
They've got guys that areshooting in the paint.
No they don't.
They've guys that drive theball.
They do.
No, they don't.
(02:30):
They really don't.
They do.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
The free throw disparity shouldnot be that bad.
No, it shouldn't, but theCeltics, it should be in Boston
more than's favor.
It should be in Boston's favor,but it should never be that bad.
Yes.
I mean, it was what, when it,when it mattered, the free throw
disparity was, it was three to24, I think, or something like
(02:50):
that.
It was horrendous.
Horrendous.
Shouldn't be that way.
Pacers blew it, regardless.
Tyrese Hallenburton blew it.
The Andrew Nemhart blew it.
They, they had opportunities towin, and they turned the ball
over.
So, shout out to Jalen Brown forhitting one of the most clutch
(03:12):
shots I've ever seen.
Um, but yeah, that's, it was agreat game.
First half was beautiful.
They end, they end going even.
Uh, but, you just, you know.
I text you about this.
You just kind of feel like thePacers are just playing catch up
the whole time.
(03:32):
Even when they're up, you'restill super scared.
And I think experience startedto show towards the end of the
game.
Yeah, so, so here's the freethrow disparity, right?
So, the Indiana Pacers shot 9for 10.
Boston shot 24 for 30.
I'm okay if that's somewhereclose.
If, if Boston's gonna go 24 for30, they're gonna get 30
attempts.
I think that Indiana at leastshould be somewhere between 16
(03:54):
and 21.
That's just how I feel.
I do believe that Boston styleof play is they're going to be
shooting more free throws.
I mean, you can look at onematchup in particular when Jalen
Brown is being guarded by TyreseHalliburton.
The guy can't defend him.
The guy can't defend him.
It's like, it's like when yourbig brother, it's like when
you're playing on, you'replaying dunk ball with your big
(04:15):
brother.
He's a senior and you're inseventh grade.
That's what it looks like.
Like he just gets pushed around.
Uh, If there's one thing thatTyrese Halliburton should learn
coming out of this series, uh,it should be what a weight room
looks like.
Because that's what he needs todo, is lift some weights.
He is, he's just not strongenough to go against the Boston
(04:37):
Celtics.
If you're playing the Knicks,and it's a lot of 6'3 guys,
Cause they're running theVillanova guys.
You can, you're somewhat viable.
But when you play Boston andthey're going to, you're going
to be switching on Tatum andJalen Brown.
I'm not saying you have to bejacked.
That's not what I'm saying.
But you can't get pushed likethat when you're as tall as he
is.
You can't get pushed like that.
(04:58):
He's not T.
J.
McConnell, okay?
And I don't even think T.
J.
would get pushed like that.
So, so for me, he's gotta hitthe weight room.
He needs to get some composure.
Because the two turnovers justdribbling the basketball, they
broke the back of the team.
I'm telling you.
And I didn't even think theywere going to be in a position
(05:19):
to win the game when I saw, youknow, Boston jumps out to a 12
run.
That's that's we see this kindof thing happened in the NBA
where you're playing the law ofaverages.
Maybe one team comes out andthey make six straight shots and
you miss five straight and thenthey miss four in a row.
You make five in a row and itevens out more often than not.
And so that wasn't surprising,but they never could take the
(05:41):
lead in the first half.
And I thought that was going tocontinue.
But you know what?
Boston's going to Boston andTatum is going to Tatum.
He didn't want to win that gamefor him.
He didn't even shoot the lastshot to send them to overtime.
They, they embattled it to JalenBrown.
And so in true Boston fashion,they gave Indiana a chance to
really win this game.
And, uh, they had the chance,they had the opportunity to
(06:01):
seize their moment.
They just didn't do it.
They, they really didn't do it.
It seemed like the moment wastoo big, too bright for that
team.
And what's hard is that was whenyou were going to surprise
Boston.
Right?
Like, that was the game whereyou snuck up on them.
In game two, they're gonna beready to punch you in the face.
Like, that was the ch that wasyour chance to win one of the
(06:24):
first two games.
Cause if you thought it wastough there, if you thought that
moment was difficult now, waittill you see what happens in a
couple days.
Wait till you see what happenson Thursday.
It's gonna be a lot harder,period.
And so it was just crushingbecause the everyone and their
dog in the media anyone onTwitter nobody believes the
(06:46):
Pacers are winning this seriesand they had a chance to really
punch the number one team in theNBA in the mouth and they just
whiffed.
They missed.
I still can't believe it.
It unraveled so quickly, soquickly, I, the first Tyree's
turnover was like, Oh, here wego.
(07:09):
Like he, he dribbled the balland just kicked it off of his
leg.
Yeah, just kicked it off hisleg.
And it's like, there's 27seconds on the clock.
It wasn't even that much ballpressure.
There was zero ball pressure.
He was bringing the ball up thecourt on a rebound.
It wasn't even, They were goingto have to come and foul him or
wait for, all you have to do ishold on the ball.
(07:32):
That's it.
And okay.
But what about the second one?
Once again, it was not much ballpressure from Drew Holiday.
And then he just, He got scaredof Drew Holiday.
He just, He got scared of DrewHoliday.
What?
That's, and then you see him,he, he tried to play it off.
Like he got pushed.
I don't know if you saw that,but the ball went out of bounds
(07:52):
and he, Leaped into thecommentators and then, oh, yeah,
dude, oh, bad, it was, it wasonly a matter of time before a
team figured out that Halliecan't guard only a matter of
time.
Dude, he cannot.
He got through it in the firstround because of injuries.
You got through it in the secondround because of injuries.
You get here, this wholestarting lineup can attack you.
(08:15):
They're just looking for aswitch.
And not only that, uh, Aaron,Aaron Naismith fouled out of the
game.
And that was, that was, that wasa tough one because he's their
athletic defender.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the play where, uh, Namheart falls to the ground.
Jason Tatum gets that and onethat that killed it because
(08:36):
Naismith was playing greatdefense.
He's very physical and then hefouls out of the game and it
just, it just goes downhill fromthere.
Well, and now, and now Tatum,he, like he survives what would
have been so much, he would havegotten destroyed online.
If that game would have ended atIndiana wins because he was
(09:00):
passive.
He was not trying to take overthe moment.
He had the bad turnover to drewholiday.
Like I said, he wasn't evenshooting that shot at the end of
regulation.
And then he gets the threepointer and overtime wide open
top of the key.
And man, did that make such adifference?
There's nothing anybody can sayis he had that one moment.
(09:20):
He had that one moment.
I think.
More than 35, but it's 36, 36,but it went to overtime.
And again, this is the 26thregulation for him.
He goes to the EasternConference finals like every
other year.
So, oh yeah, the people aregoing to talk about like, oh,
how do, why don't we expect thisfrom any other player?
It's because he came into a goodsituation with the Celtics.
(09:43):
This is this is what we expectfrom the guy.
So if he they lose the game,it's it's because of him that we
know that.
Tyrese Halliburton was a minus11 plus minus.
TJ McConnell's minutes weregreat.
Oh, dude.
Yeah.
Seems like they always are.
Six for 11, 13 points.
(10:06):
It's, it's, he's not getting thelooks he did last round.
Like he's not as open when he'sshooting the ball, which, which
is to be expected, but man, he'ssuch a high value piece for that
30 footer.
You can knock down a 30 footer,which he did multiple times.
So this was the game to winBoston kind of off their stuff.
(10:27):
They haven't played this team.
That was the opportunity tosteal one and it was, it was,
and I think you can, I'd expectto see a double digit win from
Boston game to statement win.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's gonnabe, it'll be a big win.
Indiana, I believe will win agame.
(10:50):
No matter what happens, they'restill gonna win a game.
Boston's gonna Boston.
He can do it.
They can definitely do it.
They're gonna have a night.
They're gonna have a night.
I mean, today they went 15 for45 from 333%.
It's I mean, that's belowaverage for for NBA numbers.
But I think they're gonna have areal stinker where they'll be in
the 20s and they'll lose.
That's normally the barometerfor what happens in Boston.
(11:11):
If they are missing threes, youcan win the game.
And case in point tonight, casein point tonight, but Once
again, nobody expected TyreseHalliburton to, to be here.
Nobody thought the Pacers wouldbe here, uh, and Boston didn't
expose them.
They exposed themselves, butthis is a learning opportunity
(11:33):
for that franchise.
It really is.
This is, this is the time forthem to, to, to learn to figure
this stuff out, uh, because theyshouldn't be here and they had a
chance to punch the number oneseed and they missed it.
Unfortunate.
In other news, on the other sideof the bracket, We have an
(11:54):
incredible matchup.
My Minnesota Timberwolves! Uh,on their finals run against the
Dallas Mavericks, Luka Doncic,Kyrie Irving, who apparently is
Unk now.
Who apparently the young peopleare calling Unk now.
It's crazy.
(12:14):
Uh, Roman, what, what are, whatare you looking forward to the
most from this TimberwolvesMavericks matchup?
The thing I'm excited for is tosee the matchups tomorrow.
I've been running it through myhead and I mean, the
Timberwolves basically have twocenters starting when we think
about it.
(12:34):
Yes, no, for sure.
And if the Mavericks start theirtwo centers, obviously their
rookie, Derek Lively and DanielGaffer, who do they put at the
three?
This is my thing, because DerekJones Jr.
has been playing extremely wellfor them, but so has P.
J.
Washington.
He's been hitting timely shots,and they've both been just their
(12:55):
primary defenders.
But who knows?
It's unpredictable.
They could just go the smallball lineup, continue to do it,
and take the possible loss.
You know, put a P.
J.
Washington, just put him on KarlAnthony Towns.
I don't know what they're goingto do for these matchups.
I don't know what they're goingto do for it.
(13:16):
You can't play two centers ifyou're Dallas because you they
don't have anybody in rotation.
Who are they supposed to subLuca?
Kyrie can't attack either.
I was gonna kick it out tolively because Maxie Klieber
isn't playing.
I mean, he's a power forwardUnless he unless his shoulder
like he's out for the season.
I think he's done for yeah, likeI'm, I'm looking at the roster
(13:39):
right now.
And the only other center that Ican see on this list is Dwight
Powell.
And I haven't seen that guy playin a minute.
Keep them out the rotation.
As soon as they got Gafford, heis absolutely out of the
rotation.
This is, this, this is what I'vebeen trying to tell people.
And, and finally, right.
(14:00):
Some people started picking upon it where they're like the
Timberwolves were uniquelypositioned to beat the nuggets.
Uh, yeah, that's what I've beensaying from the beginning.
Um, but let me tell yousomething.
The Minnesota Timberwolves areuniquely built to beat everyone
left.
They are built to beat everyoneleft on both sides of the ball,
(14:20):
their liability.
The only thing their Achillesheel is, how well are they going
to show up on offense?
That is, that is the onequestion that you have.
If there's one team that youquestion their offense, it's
Minnesota.
You're not questioning anybodyelse's offense.
You're questioning the Pacersdefense, but you're not
questioning anybody else'soffense.
But, but they put so muchpressure.
(14:44):
On Dallas, because they run CarlAnthony towns at the four, it's
just an absolute mismatch.
And then they've got Nas readoff the bench.
Like there's not a single teamthat's left that is going to be
able to, to match up againstwhat they're going to be seeing.
Because even if you beat cat offthe dribble, he's coming over
from behind and you've got gobear in front of you, or you've
(15:06):
got Nas read and Nas read canplay like a guard.
Like there's no one positionedApples to apples roster to
roster to beat this roster.
Minnesota.
The only way Minnesota loses isif they beat themselves.
Now, Jaden McDaniels defendingLuca.
He's going to be in foul troubleevery single game.
(15:26):
Luca is for sure going to gethim in foul trouble, but you're
probably going to see Lucaarguing with the refs more this
round than last round, becauseMcDaniels, he fouls like every
play.
He's, he's a little chippy.
He's, he's the kind of guy yougot to sub out.
If he gets a little too hotheaded in certain moments, um,
(15:47):
you can look to see, I know Lucaloves to hunt matchups, look for
him to hunt Mike Conley.
That's, that's probably whatthey're going to do is they're
going to try and put Mike Conleyin the action and see if they
can, they can expose that, uh,matchup as best they can.
But outside of that, I mean,you, Anthony Edwards and Jaden
(16:07):
McDaniels with three sevenfooters behind him, there's
just, and Luka with a, I mean,he's not 100 percent with the
knee.
I'm taking the MinnesotaTimberwolves to win this series.
I have them winning in sixgames.
I believe they win game one.
They lose game two.
(16:29):
They win three, lose four, andthen win five and six.
That's how I think it goes.
I think it's back and forth.
It's Haymakers the first fourgames, and then they tighten up.
Last two in a similar way thatthey did with Denver and they,
uh, they win the series.
I like it.
Um, I think the Mavericks havesurprised a lot of people.
(16:53):
I think Luca has put himself ina good situation now.
And Kyrie is proving to be theperfect counterpart for them.
Oh yeah, he's been fantastic.
Timberwolves, but I think, Ithink this is going to go to
seven.
I truly think this is going togo to seven.
I can't.
(17:13):
And it's just because it's Lucaand Kairi.
This isn't 2K.
I know the Timberwolves on paperare going to be better.
But Luca and Kairi are going tofind a way to win three games, I
think.
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Okay, let's do something reallyquick.
I want you, in order, to tell methe top five players in the
series.
In order.
(17:33):
In order.
One to five.
Luca and K Kyrie where I want tothrow Rudy go bear.
Cause he's just a presence atthis point.
I'm going to say Rudy then cat.
(17:58):
Wow.
Okay.
That's unexpected.
Um, this is how you know thatthe.
Roman is not just a Rudy Goberthater because to put him at four
is a, that's a sign that Romanis not a Rudy hater.
Um, Hall of Famer, Rudy Gobert.
So, so what you're telling me isDallas at their best has the
(18:19):
best players.
They've got, they've got the,the best talent of the series,
but Minnesota, but Minnesotahas, has more depth.
Yes, you can't, you can't trust.
You can't trust the bench.
Uh, I mean, they just randomlystarted throwing a hardy back
(18:40):
back in there.
The Mavericks did.
Yeah, well, he helped them alot, but they just, he, Jason
could just randomly switch it upand started throwing people in
there, but, well, but the oldTim Hardaway Jr.
hasn't been consistent.
This is what I'm saying.
And Josh, Josh Green, Josh Greendoesn't look like he can shoot
the ball.
No, it's, it's all over theplace.
But again, all it's going totake is for them to have one
(19:02):
good game and oh no, this mightgo to seven.
So I, I trust the team that'sbeen to the Western Conference
finals that they can take it toseven, even though they didn't,
even when they, they played theWarriors a couple of years ago,
but the Timberwolves can just,they can throw so many matchups.
I mean, Ant has no issueguarding either Kyrie or Luca.
(19:26):
Uh, Jay McDaniel's not going tohave any issue guarding Luca.
He might have a little bitguarding Kyrie, but he's going
to try and guard him.
And then, uh, You, you haveNikhil Alexander Walker coming
off the bench.
Who's just going to be a pestedon defense.
Yep.
Well, they have so many guysthat they can throw at them,
which is a little bit differentthan the OKC series.
(19:46):
It was Lou Dort or nobody else.
Well, and, and you just hadyoung guys that were just
falling apart.
Like Josh Giddy fell apart,dude.
He, he was bad.
He was bad.
And to be honest, I don't evenknow how he would play well.
It's been such a rough year forhim, given everything that's
happened in the media and gotkicked out of his starting
(20:09):
position.
Like my goodness, dude.
Yeah.
He, he got relegated to thebench.
They had Gordon Hayward whodidn't score a single point.
Uh, I just don't think Minnesotais going to fall apart like
that.
I just don't like the guys thatwould won't have the ball in
their hands enough to do it.
It's just Kyrie's good.
(20:31):
Kyrie is very good.
This series to me comes down totwo players one on each team.
It's not Luca and it's notAnthony Edwards because I
believe Luca is going to he'sgoing to score his 30 a night.
You can make it difficult.
He might have an off shootingnight, but he's, even his off
nights are 28 points, 26 points,16 assists.
(20:52):
Yeah.
Anthony Edwards.
I think he's going to haveprobably four good games and two
bad games.
He he'll probably have a 40 ballsomewhere in there, a couple 30
pieces, and then some, uh, 16out of nowhere, just a bad game.
That's okay.
It's seven game series for areason.
This series comes down to Kyrieand Carl Anthony towns.
(21:12):
The whole series comes down tothose two players offensively
because both players at times inthe earlier series, they've kind
of disappeared.
Like Kyrie has fallen into thishabit where he's like two points
at the half, four shots at thehalf, and then he has to have a
big second half.
Uh, or he just becomes like theultimate passer and isn't
(21:33):
scoring the ball, which, which,which if for me, I love that.
I don't want Kyrie to go off.
Please pass the ball.
Please, P.
J.
Washington.
I'd love to see you shoot it.
I don't want to see Kyrie shootit.
That's why I think that's thekey matchup of the series.
Whoever dominates the seriesoffensively, Kyrie or Karl
Anthony Towns, their team'sgonna win this.
(21:55):
And I, and, and who's gonnadefend Karl Anthony Towns?
I don't think lively can stophim and I don't think Africa can
stop him.
The only person that can stopcalling city towns is if he
keeps doing that stupid hipcheck at the three point line,
stupid hip check, and then, andthen looks at the refs like,
(22:17):
like, what are you looking likethat?
Like, stop doing it, stop doingit.
That, that is the entire seriesto me is just those two players.
Those are the only two playersI'm looking at.
That's what they say.
Role players are, role playersare the series, man.
But those guys are one stepabove a role player.
(22:37):
We can't relegate them to roleplayers.
No, my bad, my bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you, you, you have yoursuperstars.
Yes.
And then you have your playersthat are going to change the
series.
If you have a superstar meltdownon the shore, like, you have a
LeBron 2011, you're not winningthe series.
We, we understand that.
But we expect the stars to bestars, and that's when you look
(22:59):
at the others.
Agreed.
It's going to be a good one.
I, I know we're going to see acouple Luka Kyrie masterpieces.
I can, I can see the post gameinterview right now from Kyrie
talking about, I'm just soblessed to play this, this game
of basketball, but then it'sgoing to be Ant goes for 47 the
next game.
(23:19):
But the Ant 40 ball is going tohave some experience and can
really take it to seven.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Take a step back.
This Mavs team has experience?
No.
A couple guys have experience,but the team does not.
Okay.
Yes.
This is, like, we're overvaluingexperience.
(23:42):
Did you forget where PJWashington came from?
From the Hornets.
Did you forget where DanielGafford came from?
They've never been here before.
Those guys have never been here.
But now they've played a coupleplayoff series, and they've
become trustworthy.
But they've never played at thislevel.
Just like nobody Like, what arewe doing?
They, they've never played atthis level.
(24:02):
Luka has.
Kairi obviously has.
Kairi's played beyond thislevel.
He is the, he has the mostchampionship pedigree of anyone
remaining in the postseason.
That's off to him.
I'm not going to say anythingabout that guy, but like, come
on, man.
Hey, all I need is those two.
(24:23):
They've gotten this far.
They haven't even gone to a gameseven.
That's all I'm going to say.
I'm telling you right now, theAnthony Edwards edits are going
to be Ant clowning Luka Doncicand him crying to refs.
Like, those are gonna be, like,the Not Like Us memes, or the,
like, the videos, whatever the,whatever the new hit song is as
(24:46):
soon as they start playing,that's what it's gonna be.
It's gonna be Luka crying to therefs after, like, game one, when
things aren't going his way, andthe Timberwolves are up, and
they're, and they're winning.
Like, you're gonna see himcrying to the referees quite a
bit.
That's one thing we need towatch for.
Mavericks, are the Mavericksgoing to be crying to the refs?
We already know what's going tohappen.
(25:06):
It's not even an if Luca doeshis thing, uh, before game six,
the head, the reporters werelike, Luke is going to stop
talking to the ref so much.
But even during the game, it'slike, he, he, he laughs and Uh,
they scored on a fast break.
His team, uh, they called atimeout and he goes and
immediately talks to the ref.
It's, it's things like thatwhere you just need to win a
(25:29):
basketball game.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that becausehe's lucky they won the game
because it wasn't just that hetalked to the refs during the
timeout.
He spent like half the time outtalking to the ref.
He wasn't even in the huddlewith the team.
He was just talking to thereferees.
And he's, he's, he's freakinglucky.
(25:50):
They won because he would havegotten eviscerated for it.
And it's just, these are thetypes of things that I just.
The new NBA is so funny to me,because the star players that we
grew up watching, LeBron James,Kobe Bryant, right?
The elite of the elite players,they would get destroyed for
(26:13):
doing this stuff.
They would get absolutely dogwalked by the media.
If they, if they acted likethis, but like getting somewhat
of treatment like that.
Okay.
But what, how about Jokic?
How about Jokic losing a gameseven?
Yeah, but he's, he's won achampionship now.
(26:34):
Good man has three MVPs andLeBron won championships and
he's to this day still getstorched.
For him, it's, it's like, it'smore of an expectation thing.
Three MVPs, three MVPs.
And we talked more about MikeMalone in the postgame interview
than, than Jokic.
I'm just saying, you can't talkabout Jokic.
(26:56):
He doesn't care aboutbasketball.
I'm just saying, this is newmedia.
It's, it's, it, it proves thatnone of these guys are really
the faces of the league.
Now, if Anthony Edwards loses,I'm not gonna be the guy that's
gonna say when, but if he loses,I'll tell you what, he may have
racked up a lot of fans, butthere's a lot of haters too.
There's a lot of people thatreally hate what he's saying.
(27:17):
They hate that he curses so muchin the post game interviews.
They hate that he's Clowning,uh, he's waving goodbye to the
fans pointing at fans that he's,he's pointing at the scoreboard
to yolkage, man.
There's some people out therethat just hate that.
They just can't handle it.
They can't handle it.
And so there's a lot of peoplewaiting for his downfall.
(27:40):
I think there is in a pivot tomaybe a more positive
conversation.
We've got, we're looking at fourstars.
Maybe five if you want to go 1A,1B with Boston that someone's
gonna win a ring and I want toknow I want to know whose legacy
(28:04):
will improve the most by winningand Whose legacy will fall the
most by losing?
Anthony Edwards, Luka, yes, yes,Anthony Edwards, Luka, Jason
Tatum, Tyrese Halliburton,right?
If you're picking one guy fromevery team, those are the four.
(28:25):
Improved the most is Luka, 100%.
I really, I don't think there'sany other player that improves
the most.
I mean, Jason Tatum, if he wins,it's going to be a finally thing
with Luca.
It's going to be this guy'sstill really young and he just
won one.
This guy should have an MVP.
(28:46):
We feel like, and he just wonthat championship.
I feel like his legacy improvesthe most off of a championship,
especially at this age.
And what, what was the otherside of the question?
Who's that hurt the most?
Yeah.
Who, who get, who like losingwhether this round or the next,
whose legacy is hurt the most bylosing?
(29:07):
Tatum.
It's Tatum.
It has to be to get this farthis many times.
And only make it to the, if heloses this round, break it up,
break it up, get rid of them.
Get rid of one of them.
Get rid of one of them.
We're done with this.
You just lost to the Pacers.
But if they lose in the finals,it we're having that same
(29:30):
conversation that we've beenhaving for now, seven years of
this guy, seven years.
I, It hurts him the most to losethe Timberwolves and the Pacers.
It's it's more young team.
Uh, why are they here?
I mean, less Timberwolves, lessTimberwolves than Pacers.
(29:51):
The Timberwolves aren't a youngteam.
They're not young.
They've just never been here.
Their connection is young.
Okay.
No, that's fair.
That's and we're not used.
We're not used to them in theplayoffs.
They're they're young in termsof playoff runs like we do.
Yes.
Everybody assumed.
Okay.
The nuggets you run into thenuggets in the second round.
(30:11):
They're going to win it in five,six games, but they just beat
the defending champions.
They did.
It's like, even if they don'tmake the finals, it's like, this
team is very scary going intonext year, next two years, that
type of thing.
This is a make or break year,dude, because their owner just
doesn't pay.
Over the luxury tax and if theyCarl Anthony town, like Anthony
(30:33):
Edwards is about to get reallyexpensive.
And so there's a really, reallygood chance that Carl Anthony
Towns is gonna get traded likelow key.
This is really the year youthink it's make or break.
And Mike Conley's getting old, Ithink by Conley's retiring at
the end of this season.
That's why do for me like that'sme guys.
That is, that is, that's a big,big deal.
(30:55):
Especially the Mike Conley, RudyGobert connection.
Um, if I'm answering that samequestion, I, I think Anthony
Edwards has the most to gain.
I think Anthony Edwards has themost to gain because he's 22
years old, which means he won ata younger age than Jordan at a
(31:18):
younger age than LeBron.
He has enough aura to really bethe face of the league.
Like, we're reaching thatpolarizing moment where you
either love the guy or you hatethe guy.
And that is such a big deal interms of face of the league.
Look at Tom Brady.
You loved the guy or you hatedthe guy.
(31:40):
Patrick Mahomes.
You love the guy or you hate theguy.
LeBron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Like, a lot of these players,you either love them or you hate
them.
And Anthony Edwards, he is thatplayer right now.
He's just edgy enough in, youknow, super soft 2024 that if he
wins this at 22 years old, hejust got a signature shoe.
(32:05):
Are you kidding?
He'd be the first Adidas playeras the best player on the team
to win a championship.
Like that's a big, this is, it'sa, it's a huge, huge deal if he
wins this ring.
Huge, massive.
I think a lot of people forgethow young he is too.
Like, dude, you think of most ofthe greats, they don't have
(32:26):
rings this early in theircareer.
They really don't.
It's usually about when they hittheir, their peak, the prime of
their career, you know, year sixyear through year eight.
Yeah.
That's about the time where theyget their first championship.
If he gets it this early, He'son a great trajectory, but
that's still if, but if he doeswin this, wow, that's scary.
(32:53):
I, this is, this is one of thethings that really pisses me off
is so many people are like, youcan't compare them to Michael
Jordan.
Michael Jordan was six and Oh,in the finals, Michael Jordan,
this Michael Jordan, that it'snot like there's, there's,
there's two levels to this thatI think are really important to
break down.
(33:13):
And one comment, the comment isyou have to stop comparing
players to a full career.
You can't compare Michael Jordanat the end of his career to
Anthony Edwards in like thethird year of his career.
That is the most ridiculousthing I have ever heard in my
life.
It is so stupid.
(33:35):
It's so stupid to me.
Another a player.
can play stylistically likesomeone else.
And it doesn't mean that we'rejust, we're putting all of the
expectations that someone else'sentire career had because they
can jump like someone else we'veseen.
(33:55):
They can dunk like someone elsewe've seen.
We're just saying, I've, I'veseen this before on television.
This reminds me of Jordan.
And I appreciate that it's Antto Jordan more than Ant to Kobe.
Because with Kobe, there wasmore, there was more of an art
to the way that he played.
(34:16):
It's, like, even early in hiscareer, he also was a better
outside shooter than Jordan.
Where Anthony Edwards, there'sjust this raw ability.
Just this raw offensive scoringthat, that to me, it looks more
like Jordan than it does.
Kobe personally.
(34:37):
But if we go to Jordan's career,I've got his career pulled up
right here.
1984, 1985.
Did he win a championship?
No.
1985, 1986.
Did he win a championship?
No.
86 to 87.
Was he winning a ring in yearthree?
No.
Guess what?
He was 23 in year three.
He did not win a ring.
(34:57):
How about 87 88?
Did he win a ring?
Nope.
88 89.
Did he win a ring?
Nope.
How about 89 90?
Did he win a ring?
No, no, he didn't.
It took him six years.
It took him six years to do it.
And so we're not comparingAnthony Edwards to championship
(35:18):
level Michael Jordan.
We're not comparing him to 30 agame.
10 time all defensive likethat's the scoring champion.
We're not comparing him to thatJordan We're just saying early
Jordan where he would just carryhis team and go out and try to
win games That was running intothese buzzsaws in the playoffs
(35:41):
Cap it was supposed to lose toDenver that was supposed to be
his Boston Celtics That wassupposed to be his Boston
Celtics matchup And he beat themin seven games.
I don't know.
Am I crazy?
No.
I wish we could have had thisround as Western Copper Finals.
Oh gosh.
(36:02):
That would have made it so muchbetter.
Oh my gosh.
If we could have seen Denverplay Dallas.
Luca versus the Oakage, the bestfriends.
And then he sees aunt in the,ah, that would have been great,
but it continues.
Sorry.
It would have been great, butno, I, uh, yeah, that's the
thing with the, we're notcomparing him saying that aunt
(36:24):
is Jordan.
It's just the way that he playsat such a young age.
Yeah.
This is, I mean, everybody, ifyou took somebody and watched,
had them watch and or likesomebody who doesn't really know
the game, I bet if we even askedour mom, like he's probably been
in the league for seven or eightyears.
Like, you know, this, he's 22years old, he's so young and
(36:46):
he's leading his team and nowthey're in the Western Commerce
finals.
So like I've said, if, if heeven has a finals appearance
this young, it's the trajectoryis there.
It's definitely there.
If we go, I'm, I'm pulling upAnthony Edwards, his career
stats right now.
Just, I just want to take apeek.
(37:09):
Like, came into the league at19.
He's 22 now.
This is year 4.
He played 79 games this season.
79 last season.
Does that sound like anybody toyou?
To me, that sounds like Jordan,who is playing 82 games a year
outside of his second year inthe league.
(37:30):
Like, uh, I mean, obviously, hisscoring, 24 a game, 25 a game
this year.
I just, he's Jordan like, man.
He's Jordan like, and he's got alegitimate chance to, To go and
win a championship.
There's no better year than thisyear.
Oh no.
(37:51):
A better year.
No.
And every year presentsdifferent challenges, but this
is a great opportunity for himto, to steal one early.
If you, if you put Minnesota onthe map, I mean, you're a
mortal.
You did something that KevinGarnett couldn't do.
(38:11):
Like it's a big deal.
I mean, the Timberwolves are abit bigger.
I mean, but if it wasn't forKevin Garnett, they would be a,
a wizards.
Uh, the Pistons team.
Well, the Pistons at least havehistory.
The Pistons have history.
Yeah, but the Pistons sold theirsoul for that championship.
(38:33):
They sold their franchise forthat one year of winning.
I mean, they had a few goodyears, but that 0 4
championship, they sold theirPlease let us beat the Lakers.
Yeah, they, they sold the, they,they sold their chance at a
number one draft pick forever.
Chauncey Billups went out andbeat Kobe and Shaq.
What are we talking about here?
(38:57):
I don't know, man.
It's uh, I just shake my head.
That, that's a, that's a goodthing.
Cause it's like the bulls arethe bulls because of Jordan.
Yeah.
Uh, the Cavs were made the Cavsbecause of LeBron.
Yep.
Is this an opportunity for theTimberwolves to become the
Timberwolves?
(39:17):
Uh, Best selling jerseys typetype of franchise in the future
because yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know We will see we willsee what's scary is he can
continue to improve What's scaryis he can continue to improve.
He's not even close to his midtwenties, let alone late
twenties.
He could do this for a decade,but what we also keep doing in
(39:39):
the league right now is as soonas the team wins, we want to
claim a dynasty before they'vedone it again, right?
Denver was supposed to be adynasty.
Milwaukee was supposed to be adynasty.
And we have LeBron James andSteph Curry to blame for that.
You're, you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
Like they made dynasties, theymade dynasties easy to get to
(40:01):
the finals.
Now, like the, they madeplayoffs boring because you knew
who was going to be there at theend.
Like, it was just like, let'sfast forward this LeBron one
game seven versus the Celticssurprise.
Surprise.
Yeah, now, now it's, you know,it's who's going to win.
It's who's going to win.
It is.
(40:21):
It's who's going to win.
It's who's going to win.
Okay.
But here's the thing.
Even if Boston wins though, thatI was thinking name an easier
run.
Yeah, that's, I mean, but peoplediscredit, they earned the
number one seed, which earnedthem the path that they got.
(40:42):
But I mean, Miami, no JimmyButler, like, just look at the,
the East, the East isn't evenfun to watch.
You're watching the East as anappetizer, hoping you get a
solid Western conference game.
That's been me all postseason.
This year is kind of a letdownfor the league if the Celtics
don't make the finals.
(41:03):
If the Pacers go to the finals,it is bad for the league.
If the Pacers make the finals,the NBA is switching something
up on that eastern side.
Yeah, because they did not pullratings.
Did you hear the rumor thatMinnesota might get moved to the
east?
If they do an expansion.
I have heard that if they doexpansion stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(41:23):
The east is and kind of beenkind of bad the past few years.
So, but yeah, it's really, it'sreally been Celtics bucks for
the past few years.
I mean, obviously the heaterthere, but yeah.
There's not as muchentertainment on that, on that
side.
That's for sure.
No, but the East really hasalways had this inevitability.
(41:47):
If this isn't a microcosm ofwhat we've seen for since the
year 2000, you know, I don'tknow what is even before that.
Cause then you're talkingJordan.
Like this is just honestly whatthe Eastern conference is.
It's the West, it's the West andit, and it has been for the
better part of three decades.
that you, it's so hard to knowwhat you're going to see come
(42:11):
out of the Western Conference.
I mean, the Spurs won fivechampionships and never won back
to back.
That's weird.
Every other year.
Like, that's weird.
You know what I mean?
Like It's there's so much likethat.
Uh, I know, I know Oklahoma Citylost.
I know they, the way they lost alot of people loved because
shade, obviously a foul baiter,not Joel Embiid, but close.
(42:36):
Uh, you lump him into that groupwith Jalen Brunson, Luca
Donchic, a couple of these guys,and then he fouls for them to
lose the series.
I don't think, you know, a gamecomes down to the final play.
There's a lot of plays that leadup to it, but you can't keep all
these guys.
It feels like you have someplayers that have, that are kind
of all about the same andsomebody's got to go.
(42:59):
For me, I'm moving Josh Giddey.
I think he's, he's the guy tomove.
Josh Giddey in a first round anda first round pick.
That's, that's a lot.
I've seen, I've seen some mocktrades.
I think you move Giddey and acouple first and you will get a
baller.
Who?
(43:20):
I don't know.
I think for Giddey and a firstround, maybe two.
Maybe two at probably to youtrying to bring Kevin Durant
back.
I know the sons aren't doing thetrade according to that.
Oh, Hey, that is athletic sevenfooter, defensive seven footer.
(43:41):
That is so good.
Roman, that is so good.
You think, would it take twofirst round picks, two firsts
and Josh Giddey?
Yeah, you should, you shouldtrade two firsts.
You should trade two firsts.
I'm saying, but can they getLori for Josh Giddey in one
first round pick?
No, you should go to, but yeah.
(44:01):
Okay.
See needs to make a move to getone more player that can pair
with them.
Yes.
You need to know what Chet'sgoing to do this off season.
Why?
Oh, you mean in terms of likeimprovement?
Yes.
If he hits the weight room,we'll see.
(44:23):
A lot of guys need to hit theweight room.
I know they do.
Like, they do.
I'm just saying.
The defensive teams came out.
Do you see how many centers onall defensive first team?
I mean, the first team is prettymuch all centers and then Herb
Jones And then the second teamis all guards.
It's all guards.
Yep.
The just shows where we're that.
That shows where we're at in theNBA right now.
(44:43):
How important position bigs are.
Yeah.
How important guards are rightthere.
The league is ran by bigs.
I don't care what you say.
The league is ran by bigs.
And if you don't want to say cenI'm not saying centers.
It's ran by bigs.
And what I mean, I've said thismultiple times in the
(45:04):
postseason.
Luka Doncic.
is big for his position.
Dominates.
Where is he right now?
He's in the Western Conferencefinals.
The Minnesota Timberwolves havethe three trees.
They got 37 footers, one thatplays like a guard, another.
That's one of the best threepoint shooters in the
(45:25):
postseason.
And then there's Rudy Gobert,defensive player of the year.
Three trees, all a differentspecies.
You turn around, you look at theBoston Celtics, their forwards
are pushing around IndianaPacers, like it's Varsity versus
JV.
I mean, Jason Tatum is playingthe four, but he's really a
(45:46):
small forward, but the dude issix foot ten.
And if Porzingis isn't hurt,then you've got, you're talking
about Al Horford coming off thebench for you.
So the league's dominated bybigs.
And then you start talking aboutguys, like, you know, you start
talking about your Yoka, whichis like some of these other guys
too.
Like, I know everybody loves tosee some great guards, but like
(46:06):
the league is a lot of it's ranby bigs.
It is, it is center and forwardheavy right now.
That's That's for sure.
And that's why somebody like Antstands out so much because he,
we love to see a guard.
We love to see a true guard.
Yep.
The Steph, Steph, like we loveto see guards.
(46:29):
Wayne, Kobe, Jordan, Steph,cause guards are more fun.
They're more fun to watchentertainment.
Yep.
But like it's a guard, a guardis like a guard's like a pretty
girl you see at the club.
You know, like you might have areally fun time and this is
(46:50):
going to sound crazy, butlongterm you want to get married
to a big, no ditty, please.
No ditty, please.
No ditty.
No, but you know what I mean?
(47:10):
Yes.
Yes.
You understand what I'm saying?
Right.
You understand what I'm saying?
Up to your comparisons rightthere.
All time, all time centers.
It's just, uh, it's a moresurefire path to wins.
Even because, and I'll tell you,and I'll say it this way, Roman,
how many rings does, uh, StephCurry have?
M.
(47:34):
J.
And uh, phil jackson, heorchestrated 11 of the 11
championships.
He won one as a player.
He won one as a player with theKnicks, but he orchestrated his
offense generated 11championships and then Steph
(47:56):
brings in four more steve Kerr.
That's his tree.
Okay.
So the system, and I think Stevemodernized the triangle offense,
he modernized it, but thesystem, that system has
generated 15 championships ledby guards.
There's a very strong argumentthat you could make that if you
(48:20):
took out the triangle offense,championships are won by bigs
someday.
It's like name, name the champsthat are won by guards.
That are not, that Phil Jacksonor someone related to Phil
Jackson was not involved.
(48:42):
I'm pissed.
That's one ring.
The only team that didn't have atop 75 player.
That's one ring.
Only one.
Spurs, but their bigs won themtheir championships.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean LeBron's ring.
LeBron's a forward.
LeBron's rings.
LeBron's a forward, he's not aguard.
(49:02):
That's true, that's true.
Magic, a forward, the Bucks wina championship because they
have, they had Kareem andGiannis seven footers, Hakeem
Olajuwon, big, you could, youcould point to Miami.
You could, you could point toMiami, but they still had
Shaquille O'Neal.
(49:23):
Even though Wade had anincredible run, they still, they
still, they still had Shaq.
Like, like tell me, tell me I'mon to something, man.
I was going to say Warriors, butI mean that's Steve Kerr.
Yeah, that is Steve Kerr.
(49:44):
Man, stew on that, America.
Let me know what you think aboutthat take, because that is
piping hot.
Straight off.
Bigs have been dominating.
That if you take out PhilJackson and his tree, you're
winning, the only way you'rewinning a ring is with the big.
(50:06):
Yeah, what is, what is Jordan'scareer look like if he never
gets, gets himself Phil Jackson?
Um, bro, we know what it lookslike.
He doesn't win championships.
What are you talking about?
How many coaches did he havebefore Phil?
4?
5 coaches?
Yeah, I think it was like 3 or 4of them.
(50:26):
Like, I know a lot of people arelabeling LeBron as a coach
killer and Kevin Duran as acoach killer.
Bro, Kobe went through like 8 or9 coaches.
MJ had to go through 4 or 5coaches before he got Phil.
Without Phil and I'm just notwinning.
He needed Phil and Scotty.
If you have to both of thoseguys, Phil Jackson is really
(50:48):
responsible for the two greatestshooting guards of all time.
A hundred percent, a hundredpercent.
And then Anthony Edwards andwalks into the room and it's he,
this is the issue, Moses.
This is what people are talkingabout right here.
No, he, but hear me out.
He would have walked into theroom.
Yeah, he would have to do a lot.
(51:09):
To move past Dwayne Wade, who Ithink is considered the third
best shooting guard, even thoughhe is probably the most zesty
former NBA player that we have.
I believe Anthony Edwards haswalked into the kitchen.
(51:30):
Okay.
He has walked.
No, I think he has walked in,but he is not.
He there is.
There are no seats open at thetable.
He's walked into the kitchen.
The kids table is still there.
He's knocked at the door for me.
He's awesome.
He's I think he's in the kitchenbecause he's going to the
finals.
Roman.
He's yeah.
But when you say that, but hehasn't Moses, you have to wait
(51:52):
until he goes, I've told youthis every single round.
This guy only has a second roundwin.
We got to chill Mo.
He hasn't even won hisconference yet.
Wade one in year three, justsaying, where's the Shaquille
O'Neal on this team?
Rudy Gobert is don't ever putthose two in the same year.
(52:15):
Don't ever put those two in thesame sentence, literally ever
again in your life.
Rudy Gobert couldn't scratchShaq's balls, dude.
What are you talking about?
Rudy Gobert can't scratch Shaq'sballs.
(52:37):
Don't ever say that to me again.
That's his version of Shaq.
Don't ever say that again.
Will you stop acting like RudyGobert does not have four
defensive player of the yearawards?
Would you stop doing that?
Have you ever seen ShaquilleO'Neal?
Yes, I have.
Why?
I'm not saying he's the sameplayer.
(52:59):
I'm saying that that is hisShaq.
How can you say it's not?
Are you going to say cat is theShaq?
No, I don't think there is aShaq.
That's what I'm saying.
I think there is.
I think I don't think so.
The year it is.
Really?
Because when he touches the ballon offense, you close your eyes
and pray to God that he passesit and it's not a turnover.
(53:23):
But he also holds the defending,the defending champs to 80
points, 70 points, anchoring thedefense.
So he did.
No, he did that.
He, he did do that.
That is, that is true.
But only time is going to tell,Mo, time's going to tell only
(53:45):
time.
He's knocking at the door.
He's knocking.
He's not in the room yet.
By the time we record this nextepisode, we're already going to
have new narratives beingwritten.
We're going to see multiplegames.
The Indiana plays and we'll havemultiple games under our belt in
the Timberwolves series as well.
We have a lot of basketball tolook ahead, uh, to, to look
(54:06):
forward to.
This is like the last week thatwe get, that we get ball every
single night.
And so we have to enjoy it whilewe can, because guys, it's
almost over.
The season is almost over, sowe're going to enjoy it as much
as we can.
If you feel differently.
Or if you agree with me, right,if you're on the money side,
which really has been me allyear long, uh, let me know in
(54:30):
the comments, let me know in thecomments, like, do you agree
with Mo?
Do you agree with row?
Do you agree with your team isin the Western Congress finals.
The team that I said peopleshould watch out for is in the
Eastern Congress finals.
It's true.
But one of us looks really goodand the other just choked game
one You haven't even played gameone.
You're dang freaking right andyou're lucky We haven't because
(54:52):
we're gonna win that one, too Ifyou're not following us on or if
you're not following us already,please we are on instagram
Facebook, if you use thatTwitter, if you, or if you call
it X, we're on every socialmedia platform.
So please give us a follow atswishless pod.
We're on all of your favoritepodcast platforms as well.
Um, so please, if you enjoyedthis episode, share it with
(55:13):
somebody, share it with somebodythat needs to learn about
basketball needs to needs to,you know, improve their game a
little bit.
Uh, maybe needs to fix theirtakes.
Uh, feel free to send them thisepisode and please.
Check, check in with us nextweek.
Uh, season's almost over.
So there's not very manyepisodes left.
So please make sure you tap inwith the at switch list podcast.
Roman, send us off.
(55:35):
It is the conference finals.
Everybody let us know yourthoughts.
Let us know what you agree withdisagree with.
We both got, we both got ouropinions and we're going to tell
them.
So we want to hear yours, too.
He's got Minnesota.
I don't know who I've got, but Idid say the Pacers would make it
this far.
But, uh, like he said, we're onall social medias.
(55:56):
If you're not following us, ifyou're not liking, if you're not
subscribing, if you're notinteracting with us, it's
getting ridiculous.
It's really getting ridiculous.
Conference Finals.
Moses and Roman, Episode 21,Season 2.
Switch List Podcast.
We are here.
All right, everybody.
Season two, episode 21 comingoff of game one, Indiana Pacers
versus the Boston Celtics.
A choke job from your guy,Tyrese Halliburton, a choke job
from your guy, my guy, when hedoesn't play well, we still win
game seven.
Your guy, when he doesn't playwell, turns the ball over and
you lose.
Uh, just saying, we're going tojump right into it.
(00:23):
the game tonight, and we'regonna talk a lot about really
the final teams that areremaining.
I know it's been a few days, butanybody that's been listening to
us, I know they're gonna want tocatch up here, hear what we
think, because they know thatme, I am Mr Minnesota.
My Timberwolves are going to thefinals.
I've been waiting for this formy whole life, waiting for this
my whole life, and it's finallygonna happen.
(00:43):
But before we get into anyMinnesota conversations, we have
to talk about the game that wejust watched.
Indiana had it.
They literally had it and theychoked it away, handed the game
to him, handed the game to thenumber one team in NBA.
The only thing, only thing Ineeded the Pacers to do was just
steal one game.
(01:04):
Oh my gosh.
You steal, you steal one ofthose games and then they're
bound to win one at home.
Yes.
Yes, my thing with this serieswas if the Pacers were going to
not win a game at TD Garden,then it was going to be a five
game series.
They were going to steal one athome, go back.
If they could have stolen that,you go back to Boston and this
(01:27):
could go seven, just like itwent in New York.
Yeah, it could be 2 2.
2 2, then it's a 3 2, you getone back at home, game seven.
In TD garden, you know, but theylost this game and we'll see how
game two goes.
But this, they gave the, theygave the game to the number one
team.
You just handed it to them.
(01:48):
So many opportunities to closethe game out and they just gave
it to them.
And people are going to talkabout the foul, uh, the free
throw line disparity, but, uh,that's just style of basketball.
At this point, it's the samething with the Lakers.
Uh, the way the Pacers play is,you know, They shoot a lot.
They drive and but, but theygot, they drive.
They didn't, they didn't, theydidn't get a free, they shot a
(02:10):
free throw at with five minutesand I think 56 seconds in the
first quarter and didn't shootanother free throw until the
fourth quarter.
It's'cause they don't drive atthe hoop like that.
But they've got bigs that arelike, what are we, what are we
talking about?
Miles, Turner shoots the ball.
What are we talking about?
They've got guys that areshooting in the paint.
No they don't.
They've guys that drive theball.
They do.
No, they don't.
(02:30):
They really don't.
They do.
Oh my gosh.
Okay.
The free throw disparity shouldnot be that bad.
No, it shouldn't, but theCeltics, it should be in Boston
more than's favor.
It should be in Boston's favor,but it should never be that bad.
Yes.
I mean, it was what, when it,when it mattered, the free throw
disparity was, it was three to24, I think, or something like
(02:50):
that.
It was horrendous.
Horrendous.
Shouldn't be that way.
Pacers blew it, regardless.
Tyrese Hallenburton blew it.
The Andrew Nemhart blew it.
They, they had opportunities towin, and they turned the ball
over.
So, shout out to Jalen Brown forhitting one of the most clutch
(03:12):
shots I've ever seen.
Um, but yeah, that's, it was agreat game.
First half was beautiful.
They end, they end going even.
Uh, but, you just, you know.
I text you about this.
You just kind of feel like thePacers are just playing catch up
the whole time.
(03:32):
Even when they're up, you'restill super scared.
And I think experience startedto show towards the end of the
game.
Yeah, so, so here's the freethrow disparity, right?
So, the Indiana Pacers shot 9for 10.
Boston shot 24 for 30.
I'm okay if that's somewhereclose.
If, if Boston's gonna go 24 for30, they're gonna get 30
attempts.
I think that Indiana at leastshould be somewhere between 16
(03:54):
and 21.
That's just how I feel.
I do believe that Boston styleof play is they're going to be
shooting more free throws.
I mean, you can look at onematchup in particular when Jalen
Brown is being guarded by TyreseHalliburton.
The guy can't defend him.
The guy can't defend him.
It's like, it's like when yourbig brother, it's like when
you're playing on, you'replaying dunk ball with your big
(04:15):
brother.
He's a senior and you're inseventh grade.
That's what it looks like.
Like he just gets pushed around.
Uh, If there's one thing thatTyrese Halliburton should learn
coming out of this series, uh,it should be what a weight room
looks like.
Because that's what he needs todo, is lift some weights.
He is, he's just not strongenough to go against the Boston
(04:37):
Celtics.
If you're playing the Knicks,and it's a lot of 6'3 guys,
Cause they're running theVillanova guys.
You can, you're somewhat viable.
But when you play Boston andthey're going to, you're going
to be switching on Tatum andJalen Brown.
I'm not saying you have to bejacked.
That's not what I'm saying.
But you can't get pushed likethat when you're as tall as he
is.
You can't get pushed like that.
(04:58):
He's not T.
J.
McConnell, okay?
And I don't even think T.
J.
would get pushed like that.
So, so for me, he's gotta hitthe weight room.
He needs to get some composure.
Because the two turnovers justdribbling the basketball, they
broke the back of the team.
I'm telling you.
And I didn't even think theywere going to be in a position
(05:19):
to win the game when I saw, youknow, Boston jumps out to a 12
run.
That's that's we see this kindof thing happened in the NBA
where you're playing the law ofaverages.
Maybe one team comes out andthey make six straight shots and
you miss five straight and thenthey miss four in a row.
You make five in a row and itevens out more often than not.
And so that wasn't surprising,but they never could take the
(05:41):
lead in the first half.
And I thought that was going tocontinue.
But you know what?
Boston's going to Boston andTatum is going to Tatum.
He didn't want to win that gamefor him.
He didn't even shoot the lastshot to send them to overtime.
They, they embattled it to JalenBrown.
And so in true Boston fashion,they gave Indiana a chance to
really win this game.
And, uh, they had the chance,they had the opportunity to
(06:01):
seize their moment.
They just didn't do it.
They, they really didn't do it.
It seemed like the moment wastoo big, too bright for that
team.
And what's hard is that was whenyou were going to surprise
Boston.
Right?
Like, that was the game whereyou snuck up on them.
In game two, they're gonna beready to punch you in the face.
Like, that was the ch that wasyour chance to win one of the
(06:24):
first two games.
Cause if you thought it wastough there, if you thought that
moment was difficult now, waittill you see what happens in a
couple days.
Wait till you see what happenson Thursday.
It's gonna be a lot harder,period.
And so it was just crushingbecause the everyone and their
dog in the media anyone onTwitter nobody believes the
(06:46):
Pacers are winning this seriesand they had a chance to really
punch the number one team in theNBA in the mouth and they just
whiffed.
They missed.
I still can't believe it.
It unraveled so quickly, soquickly, I, the first Tyree's
turnover was like, Oh, here wego.
(07:09):
Like he, he dribbled the balland just kicked it off of his
leg.
Yeah, just kicked it off hisleg.
And it's like, there's 27seconds on the clock.
It wasn't even that much ballpressure.
There was zero ball pressure.
He was bringing the ball up thecourt on a rebound.
It wasn't even, They were goingto have to come and foul him or
wait for, all you have to do ishold on the ball.
(07:32):
That's it.
And okay.
But what about the second one?
Once again, it was not much ballpressure from Drew Holiday.
And then he just, He got scaredof Drew Holiday.
He just, He got scared of DrewHoliday.
What?
That's, and then you see him,he, he tried to play it off.
Like he got pushed.
I don't know if you saw that,but the ball went out of bounds
(07:52):
and he, Leaped into thecommentators and then, oh, yeah,
dude, oh, bad, it was, it wasonly a matter of time before a
team figured out that Halliecan't guard only a matter of
time.
Dude, he cannot.
He got through it in the firstround because of injuries.
You got through it in the secondround because of injuries.
You get here, this wholestarting lineup can attack you.
(08:15):
They're just looking for aswitch.
And not only that, uh, Aaron,Aaron Naismith fouled out of the
game.
And that was, that was, that wasa tough one because he's their
athletic defender.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then the play where, uh, Namheart falls to the ground.
Jason Tatum gets that and onethat that killed it because
(08:36):
Naismith was playing greatdefense.
He's very physical and then hefouls out of the game and it
just, it just goes downhill fromthere.
Well, and now, and now Tatum,he, like he survives what would
have been so much, he would havegotten destroyed online.
If that game would have ended atIndiana wins because he was
(09:00):
passive.
He was not trying to take overthe moment.
He had the bad turnover to drewholiday.
Like I said, he wasn't evenshooting that shot at the end of
regulation.
And then he gets the threepointer and overtime wide open
top of the key.
And man, did that make such adifference?
There's nothing anybody can sayis he had that one moment.
(09:20):
He had that one moment.
I think.
More than 35, but it's 36, 36,but it went to overtime.
And again, this is the 26thregulation for him.
He goes to the EasternConference finals like every
other year.
So, oh yeah, the people aregoing to talk about like, oh,
how do, why don't we expect thisfrom any other player?
It's because he came into a goodsituation with the Celtics.
(09:43):
This is this is what we expectfrom the guy.
So if he they lose the game,it's it's because of him that we
know that.
Tyrese Halliburton was a minus11 plus minus.
TJ McConnell's minutes weregreat.
Oh, dude.
Yeah.
Seems like they always are.
Six for 11, 13 points.
(10:06):
It's, it's, he's not getting thelooks he did last round.
Like he's not as open when he'sshooting the ball, which, which
is to be expected, but man, he'ssuch a high value piece for that
30 footer.
You can knock down a 30 footer,which he did multiple times.
So this was the game to winBoston kind of off their stuff.
(10:27):
They haven't played this team.
That was the opportunity tosteal one and it was, it was,
and I think you can, I'd expectto see a double digit win from
Boston game to statement win.
Yeah, yeah, I think it's gonnabe, it'll be a big win.
Indiana, I believe will win agame.
(10:50):
No matter what happens, they'restill gonna win a game.
Boston's gonna Boston.
He can do it.
They can definitely do it.
They're gonna have a night.
They're gonna have a night.
I mean, today they went 15 for45 from 333%.
It's I mean, that's belowaverage for for NBA numbers.
But I think they're gonna have areal stinker where they'll be in
the 20s and they'll lose.
That's normally the barometerfor what happens in Boston.
(11:11):
If they are missing threes, youcan win the game.
And case in point tonight, casein point tonight, but Once
again, nobody expected TyreseHalliburton to, to be here.
Nobody thought the Pacers wouldbe here, uh, and Boston didn't
expose them.
They exposed themselves, butthis is a learning opportunity
(11:33):
for that franchise.
It really is.
This is, this is the time forthem to, to, to learn to figure
this stuff out, uh, because theyshouldn't be here and they had a
chance to punch the number oneseed and they missed it.
Unfortunate.
In other news, on the other sideof the bracket, We have an
(11:54):
incredible matchup.
My Minnesota Timberwolves! Uh,on their finals run against the
Dallas Mavericks, Luka Doncic,Kyrie Irving, who apparently is
Unk now.
Who apparently the young peopleare calling Unk now.
It's crazy.
(12:14):
Uh, Roman, what, what are, whatare you looking forward to the
most from this TimberwolvesMavericks matchup?
The thing I'm excited for is tosee the matchups tomorrow.
I've been running it through myhead and I mean, the
Timberwolves basically have twocenters starting when we think
about it.
(12:34):
Yes, no, for sure.
And if the Mavericks start theirtwo centers, obviously their
rookie, Derek Lively and DanielGaffer, who do they put at the
three?
This is my thing, because DerekJones Jr.
has been playing extremely wellfor them, but so has P.
J.
Washington.
He's been hitting timely shots,and they've both been just their
(12:55):
primary defenders.
But who knows?
It's unpredictable.
They could just go the smallball lineup, continue to do it,
and take the possible loss.
You know, put a P.
J.
Washington, just put him on KarlAnthony Towns.
I don't know what they're goingto do for these matchups.
I don't know what they're goingto do for it.
(13:16):
You can't play two centers ifyou're Dallas because you they
don't have anybody in rotation.
Who are they supposed to subLuca?
Kyrie can't attack either.
I was gonna kick it out tolively because Maxie Klieber
isn't playing.
I mean, he's a power forwardUnless he unless his shoulder
like he's out for the season.
I think he's done for yeah, likeI'm, I'm looking at the roster
(13:39):
right now.
And the only other center that Ican see on this list is Dwight
Powell.
And I haven't seen that guy playin a minute.
Keep them out the rotation.
As soon as they got Gafford, heis absolutely out of the
rotation.
This is, this, this is what I'vebeen trying to tell people.
And, and finally, right.
(14:00):
Some people started picking upon it where they're like the
Timberwolves were uniquelypositioned to beat the nuggets.
Uh, yeah, that's what I've beensaying from the beginning.
Um, but let me tell yousomething.
The Minnesota Timberwolves areuniquely built to beat everyone
left.
They are built to beat everyoneleft on both sides of the ball,
(14:20):
their liability.
The only thing their Achillesheel is, how well are they going
to show up on offense?
That is, that is the onequestion that you have.
If there's one team that youquestion their offense, it's
Minnesota.
You're not questioning anybodyelse's offense.
You're questioning the Pacersdefense, but you're not
questioning anybody else'soffense.
But, but they put so muchpressure.
(14:44):
On Dallas, because they run CarlAnthony towns at the four, it's
just an absolute mismatch.
And then they've got Nas readoff the bench.
Like there's not a single teamthat's left that is going to be
able to, to match up againstwhat they're going to be seeing.
Because even if you beat cat offthe dribble, he's coming over
from behind and you've got gobear in front of you, or you've
(15:06):
got Nas read and Nas read canplay like a guard.
Like there's no one positionedApples to apples roster to
roster to beat this roster.
Minnesota.
The only way Minnesota loses isif they beat themselves.
Now, Jaden McDaniels defendingLuca.
He's going to be in foul troubleevery single game.
(15:26):
Luca is for sure going to gethim in foul trouble, but you're
probably going to see Lucaarguing with the refs more this
round than last round, becauseMcDaniels, he fouls like every
play.
He's, he's a little chippy.
He's, he's the kind of guy yougot to sub out.
If he gets a little too hotheaded in certain moments, um,
(15:47):
you can look to see, I know Lucaloves to hunt matchups, look for
him to hunt Mike Conley.
That's, that's probably whatthey're going to do is they're
going to try and put Mike Conleyin the action and see if they
can, they can expose that, uh,matchup as best they can.
But outside of that, I mean,you, Anthony Edwards and Jaden
(16:07):
McDaniels with three sevenfooters behind him, there's
just, and Luka with a, I mean,he's not 100 percent with the
knee.
I'm taking the MinnesotaTimberwolves to win this series.
I have them winning in sixgames.
I believe they win game one.
They lose game two.
(16:29):
They win three, lose four, andthen win five and six.
That's how I think it goes.
I think it's back and forth.
It's Haymakers the first fourgames, and then they tighten up.
Last two in a similar way thatthey did with Denver and they,
uh, they win the series.
I like it.
Um, I think the Mavericks havesurprised a lot of people.
(16:53):
I think Luca has put himself ina good situation now.
And Kyrie is proving to be theperfect counterpart for them.
Oh yeah, he's been fantastic.
Timberwolves, but I think, Ithink this is going to go to
seven.
I truly think this is going togo to seven.
I can't.
(17:13):
And it's just because it's Lucaand Kairi.
This isn't 2K.
I know the Timberwolves on paperare going to be better.
But Luca and Kairi are going tofind a way to win three games, I
think.
Okay, okay, okay, okay.
Okay, let's do something reallyquick.
I want you, in order, to tell methe top five players in the
series.
In order.
(17:33):
In order.
One to five.
Luca and K Kyrie where I want tothrow Rudy go bear.
Cause he's just a presence atthis point.
I'm going to say Rudy then cat.
(17:58):
Wow.
Okay.
That's unexpected.
Um, this is how you know thatthe.
Roman is not just a Rudy Goberthater because to put him at four
is a, that's a sign that Romanis not a Rudy hater.
Um, Hall of Famer, Rudy Gobert.
So, so what you're telling me isDallas at their best has the
(18:19):
best players.
They've got, they've got the,the best talent of the series,
but Minnesota, but Minnesotahas, has more depth.
Yes, you can't, you can't trust.
You can't trust the bench.
Uh, I mean, they just randomlystarted throwing a hardy back
(18:40):
back in there.
The Mavericks did.
Yeah, well, he helped them alot, but they just, he, Jason
could just randomly switch it upand started throwing people in
there, but, well, but the oldTim Hardaway Jr.
hasn't been consistent.
This is what I'm saying.
And Josh, Josh Green, Josh Greendoesn't look like he can shoot
the ball.
No, it's, it's all over theplace.
But again, all it's going totake is for them to have one
(19:02):
good game and oh no, this mightgo to seven.
So I, I trust the team that'sbeen to the Western Conference
finals that they can take it toseven, even though they didn't,
even when they, they played theWarriors a couple of years ago,
but the Timberwolves can just,they can throw so many matchups.
I mean, Ant has no issueguarding either Kyrie or Luca.
(19:26):
Uh, Jay McDaniel's not going tohave any issue guarding Luca.
He might have a little bitguarding Kyrie, but he's going
to try and guard him.
And then, uh, You, you haveNikhil Alexander Walker coming
off the bench.
Who's just going to be a pestedon defense.
Yep.
Well, they have so many guysthat they can throw at them,
which is a little bit differentthan the OKC series.
(19:46):
It was Lou Dort or nobody else.
Well, and, and you just hadyoung guys that were just
falling apart.
Like Josh Giddy fell apart,dude.
He, he was bad.
He was bad.
And to be honest, I don't evenknow how he would play well.
It's been such a rough year forhim, given everything that's
happened in the media and gotkicked out of his starting
(20:09):
position.
Like my goodness, dude.
Yeah.
He, he got relegated to thebench.
They had Gordon Hayward whodidn't score a single point.
Uh, I just don't think Minnesotais going to fall apart like
that.
I just don't like the guys thatwould won't have the ball in
their hands enough to do it.
It's just Kyrie's good.
(20:31):
Kyrie is very good.
This series to me comes down totwo players one on each team.
It's not Luca and it's notAnthony Edwards because I
believe Luca is going to he'sgoing to score his 30 a night.
You can make it difficult.
He might have an off shootingnight, but he's, even his off
nights are 28 points, 26 points,16 assists.
(20:52):
Yeah.
Anthony Edwards.
I think he's going to haveprobably four good games and two
bad games.
He he'll probably have a 40 ballsomewhere in there, a couple 30
pieces, and then some, uh, 16out of nowhere, just a bad game.
That's okay.
It's seven game series for areason.
This series comes down to Kyrieand Carl Anthony towns.
(21:12):
The whole series comes down tothose two players offensively
because both players at times inthe earlier series, they've kind
of disappeared.
Like Kyrie has fallen into thishabit where he's like two points
at the half, four shots at thehalf, and then he has to have a
big second half.
Uh, or he just becomes like theultimate passer and isn't
(21:33):
scoring the ball, which, which,which if for me, I love that.
I don't want Kyrie to go off.
Please pass the ball.
Please, P.
J.
Washington.
I'd love to see you shoot it.
I don't want to see Kyrie shootit.
That's why I think that's thekey matchup of the series.
Whoever dominates the seriesoffensively, Kyrie or Karl
Anthony Towns, their team'sgonna win this.
(21:55):
And I, and, and who's gonnadefend Karl Anthony Towns?
I don't think lively can stophim and I don't think Africa can
stop him.
The only person that can stopcalling city towns is if he
keeps doing that stupid hipcheck at the three point line,
stupid hip check, and then, andthen looks at the refs like,
(22:17):
like, what are you looking likethat?
Like, stop doing it, stop doingit.
That, that is the entire seriesto me is just those two players.
Those are the only two playersI'm looking at.
That's what they say.
Role players are, role playersare the series, man.
But those guys are one stepabove a role player.
(22:37):
We can't relegate them to roleplayers.
No, my bad, my bad.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you, you, you have yoursuperstars.
Yes.
And then you have your playersthat are going to change the
series.
If you have a superstar meltdownon the shore, like, you have a
LeBron 2011, you're not winningthe series.
We, we understand that.
But we expect the stars to bestars, and that's when you look
(22:59):
at the others.
Agreed.
It's going to be a good one.
I, I know we're going to see acouple Luka Kyrie masterpieces.
I can, I can see the post gameinterview right now from Kyrie
talking about, I'm just soblessed to play this, this game
of basketball, but then it'sgoing to be Ant goes for 47 the
next game.
(23:19):
But the Ant 40 ball is going tohave some experience and can
really take it to seven.
Okay.
Okay.
Okay.
Take a step back.
This Mavs team has experience?
No.
A couple guys have experience,but the team does not.
Okay.
Yes.
This is, like, we're overvaluingexperience.
(23:42):
Did you forget where PJWashington came from?
From the Hornets.
Did you forget where DanielGafford came from?
They've never been here before.
Those guys have never been here.
But now they've played a coupleplayoff series, and they've
become trustworthy.
But they've never played at thislevel.
Just like nobody Like, what arewe doing?
They, they've never played atthis level.
(24:02):
Luka has.
Kairi obviously has.
Kairi's played beyond thislevel.
He is the, he has the mostchampionship pedigree of anyone
remaining in the postseason.
That's off to him.
I'm not going to say anythingabout that guy, but like, come
on, man.
Hey, all I need is those two.
(24:23):
They've gotten this far.
They haven't even gone to a gameseven.
That's all I'm going to say.
I'm telling you right now, theAnthony Edwards edits are going
to be Ant clowning Luka Doncicand him crying to refs.
Like, those are gonna be, like,the Not Like Us memes, or the,
like, the videos, whatever the,whatever the new hit song is as
(24:46):
soon as they start playing,that's what it's gonna be.
It's gonna be Luka crying to therefs after, like, game one, when
things aren't going his way, andthe Timberwolves are up, and
they're, and they're winning.
Like, you're gonna see himcrying to the referees quite a
bit.
That's one thing we need towatch for.
Mavericks, are the Mavericksgoing to be crying to the refs?
We already know what's going tohappen.
(25:06):
It's not even an if Luca doeshis thing, uh, before game six,
the head, the reporters werelike, Luke is going to stop
talking to the ref so much.
But even during the game, it'slike, he, he, he laughs and Uh,
they scored on a fast break.
His team, uh, they called atimeout and he goes and
immediately talks to the ref.
It's, it's things like thatwhere you just need to win a
(25:29):
basketball game.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that becausehe's lucky they won the game
because it wasn't just that hetalked to the refs during the
timeout.
He spent like half the time outtalking to the ref.
He wasn't even in the huddlewith the team.
He was just talking to thereferees.
And he's, he's, he's freakinglucky.
(25:50):
They won because he would havegotten eviscerated for it.
And it's just, these are thetypes of things that I just.
The new NBA is so funny to me,because the star players that we
grew up watching, LeBron James,Kobe Bryant, right?
The elite of the elite players,they would get destroyed for
(26:13):
doing this stuff.
They would get absolutely dogwalked by the media.
If they, if they acted likethis, but like getting somewhat
of treatment like that.
Okay.
But what, how about Jokic?
How about Jokic losing a gameseven?
Yeah, but he's, he's won achampionship now.
(26:34):
Good man has three MVPs andLeBron won championships and
he's to this day still getstorched.
For him, it's, it's like, it'smore of an expectation thing.
Three MVPs, three MVPs.
And we talked more about MikeMalone in the postgame interview
than, than Jokic.
I'm just saying, you can't talkabout Jokic.
(26:56):
He doesn't care aboutbasketball.
I'm just saying, this is newmedia.
It's, it's, it, it proves thatnone of these guys are really
the faces of the league.
Now, if Anthony Edwards loses,I'm not gonna be the guy that's
gonna say when, but if he loses,I'll tell you what, he may have
racked up a lot of fans, butthere's a lot of haters too.
There's a lot of people thatreally hate what he's saying.
(27:17):
They hate that he curses so muchin the post game interviews.
They hate that he's Clowning,uh, he's waving goodbye to the
fans pointing at fans that he's,he's pointing at the scoreboard
to yolkage, man.
There's some people out therethat just hate that.
They just can't handle it.
They can't handle it.
And so there's a lot of peoplewaiting for his downfall.
(27:40):
I think there is in a pivot tomaybe a more positive
conversation.
We've got, we're looking at fourstars.
Maybe five if you want to go 1A,1B with Boston that someone's
gonna win a ring and I want toknow I want to know whose legacy
(28:04):
will improve the most by winningand Whose legacy will fall the
most by losing?
Anthony Edwards, Luka, yes, yes,Anthony Edwards, Luka, Jason
Tatum, Tyrese Halliburton,right?
If you're picking one guy fromevery team, those are the four.
(28:25):
Improved the most is Luka, 100%.
I really, I don't think there'sany other player that improves
the most.
I mean, Jason Tatum, if he wins,it's going to be a finally thing
with Luca.
It's going to be this guy'sstill really young and he just
won one.
This guy should have an MVP.
(28:46):
We feel like, and he just wonthat championship.
I feel like his legacy improvesthe most off of a championship,
especially at this age.
And what, what was the otherside of the question?
Who's that hurt the most?
Yeah.
Who, who get, who like losingwhether this round or the next,
whose legacy is hurt the most bylosing?
(29:07):
Tatum.
It's Tatum.
It has to be to get this farthis many times.
And only make it to the, if heloses this round, break it up,
break it up, get rid of them.
Get rid of one of them.
Get rid of one of them.
We're done with this.
You just lost to the Pacers.
But if they lose in the finals,it we're having that same
(29:30):
conversation that we've beenhaving for now, seven years of
this guy, seven years.
I, It hurts him the most to losethe Timberwolves and the Pacers.
It's it's more young team.
Uh, why are they here?
I mean, less Timberwolves, lessTimberwolves than Pacers.
(29:51):
The Timberwolves aren't a youngteam.
They're not young.
They've just never been here.
Their connection is young.
Okay.
No, that's fair.
That's and we're not used.
We're not used to them in theplayoffs.
They're they're young in termsof playoff runs like we do.
Yes.
Everybody assumed.
Okay.
The nuggets you run into thenuggets in the second round.
(30:11):
They're going to win it in five,six games, but they just beat
the defending champions.
They did.
It's like, even if they don'tmake the finals, it's like, this
team is very scary going intonext year, next two years, that
type of thing.
This is a make or break year,dude, because their owner just
doesn't pay.
Over the luxury tax and if theyCarl Anthony town, like Anthony
(30:33):
Edwards is about to get reallyexpensive.
And so there's a really, reallygood chance that Carl Anthony
Towns is gonna get traded likelow key.
This is really the year youthink it's make or break.
And Mike Conley's getting old, Ithink by Conley's retiring at
the end of this season.
That's why do for me like that'sme guys.
That is, that is, that's a big,big deal.
(30:55):
Especially the Mike Conley, RudyGobert connection.
Um, if I'm answering that samequestion, I, I think Anthony
Edwards has the most to gain.
I think Anthony Edwards has themost to gain because he's 22
years old, which means he won ata younger age than Jordan at a
(31:18):
younger age than LeBron.
He has enough aura to really bethe face of the league.
Like, we're reaching thatpolarizing moment where you
either love the guy or you hatethe guy.
And that is such a big deal interms of face of the league.
Look at Tom Brady.
You loved the guy or you hatedthe guy.
(31:40):
Patrick Mahomes.
You love the guy or you hate theguy.
LeBron James.
Kobe Bryant.
Like, a lot of these players,you either love them or you hate
them.
And Anthony Edwards, he is thatplayer right now.
He's just edgy enough in, youknow, super soft 2024 that if he
wins this at 22 years old, hejust got a signature shoe.
(32:05):
Are you kidding?
He'd be the first Adidas playeras the best player on the team
to win a championship.
Like that's a big, this is, it'sa, it's a huge, huge deal if he
wins this ring.
Huge, massive.
I think a lot of people forgethow young he is too.
Like, dude, you think of most ofthe greats, they don't have
(32:26):
rings this early in theircareer.
They really don't.
It's usually about when they hittheir, their peak, the prime of
their career, you know, year sixyear through year eight.
Yeah.
That's about the time where theyget their first championship.
If he gets it this early, He'son a great trajectory, but
that's still if, but if he doeswin this, wow, that's scary.
(32:53):
I, this is, this is one of thethings that really pisses me off
is so many people are like, youcan't compare them to Michael
Jordan.
Michael Jordan was six and Oh,in the finals, Michael Jordan,
this Michael Jordan, that it'snot like there's, there's,
there's two levels to this thatI think are really important to
break down.
(33:13):
And one comment, the comment isyou have to stop comparing
players to a full career.
You can't compare Michael Jordanat the end of his career to
Anthony Edwards in like thethird year of his career.
That is the most ridiculousthing I have ever heard in my
life.
It is so stupid.
(33:35):
It's so stupid to me.
Another a player.
can play stylistically likesomeone else.
And it doesn't mean that we'rejust, we're putting all of the
expectations that someone else'sentire career had because they
can jump like someone else we'veseen.
(33:55):
They can dunk like someone elsewe've seen.
We're just saying, I've, I'veseen this before on television.
This reminds me of Jordan.
And I appreciate that it's Antto Jordan more than Ant to Kobe.
Because with Kobe, there wasmore, there was more of an art
to the way that he played.
(34:16):
It's, like, even early in hiscareer, he also was a better
outside shooter than Jordan.
Where Anthony Edwards, there'sjust this raw ability.
Just this raw offensive scoringthat, that to me, it looks more
like Jordan than it does.
Kobe personally.
(34:37):
But if we go to Jordan's career,I've got his career pulled up
right here.
1984, 1985.
Did he win a championship?
No.
1985, 1986.
Did he win a championship?
No.
86 to 87.
Was he winning a ring in yearthree?
No.
Guess what?
He was 23 in year three.
He did not win a ring.
(34:57):
How about 87 88?
Did he win a ring?
Nope.
88 89.
Did he win a ring?
Nope.
How about 89 90?
Did he win a ring?
No, no, he didn't.
It took him six years.
It took him six years to do it.
And so we're not comparingAnthony Edwards to championship
(35:18):
level Michael Jordan.
We're not comparing him to 30 agame.
10 time all defensive likethat's the scoring champion.
We're not comparing him to thatJordan We're just saying early
Jordan where he would just carryhis team and go out and try to
win games That was running intothese buzzsaws in the playoffs
(35:41):
Cap it was supposed to lose toDenver that was supposed to be
his Boston Celtics That wassupposed to be his Boston
Celtics matchup And he beat themin seven games.
I don't know.
Am I crazy?
No.
I wish we could have had thisround as Western Copper Finals.
Oh gosh.
(36:02):
That would have made it so muchbetter.
Oh my gosh.
If we could have seen Denverplay Dallas.
Luca versus the Oakage, the bestfriends.
And then he sees aunt in the,ah, that would have been great,
but it continues.
Sorry.
It would have been great, butno, I, uh, yeah, that's the
thing with the, we're notcomparing him saying that aunt
(36:24):
is Jordan.
It's just the way that he playsat such a young age.
Yeah.
This is, I mean, everybody, ifyou took somebody and watched,
had them watch and or likesomebody who doesn't really know
the game, I bet if we even askedour mom, like he's probably been
in the league for seven or eightyears.
Like, you know, this, he's 22years old, he's so young and
(36:46):
he's leading his team and nowthey're in the Western Commerce
finals.
So like I've said, if, if heeven has a finals appearance
this young, it's the trajectoryis there.
It's definitely there.
If we go, I'm, I'm pulling upAnthony Edwards, his career
stats right now.
Just, I just want to take apeek.
(37:09):
Like, came into the league at19.
He's 22 now.
This is year 4.
He played 79 games this season.
79 last season.
Does that sound like anybody toyou?
To me, that sounds like Jordan,who is playing 82 games a year
outside of his second year inthe league.
(37:30):
Like, uh, I mean, obviously, hisscoring, 24 a game, 25 a game
this year.
I just, he's Jordan like, man.
He's Jordan like, and he's got alegitimate chance to, To go and
win a championship.
There's no better year than thisyear.
Oh no.
(37:51):
A better year.
No.
And every year presentsdifferent challenges, but this
is a great opportunity for himto, to steal one early.
If you, if you put Minnesota onthe map, I mean, you're a
mortal.
You did something that KevinGarnett couldn't do.
(38:11):
Like it's a big deal.
I mean, the Timberwolves are abit bigger.
I mean, but if it wasn't forKevin Garnett, they would be a,
a wizards.
Uh, the Pistons team.
Well, the Pistons at least havehistory.
The Pistons have history.
Yeah, but the Pistons sold theirsoul for that championship.
(38:33):
They sold their franchise forthat one year of winning.
I mean, they had a few goodyears, but that 0 4
championship, they sold theirPlease let us beat the Lakers.
Yeah, they, they sold the, they,they sold their chance at a
number one draft pick forever.
Chauncey Billups went out andbeat Kobe and Shaq.
What are we talking about here?
(38:57):
I don't know, man.
It's uh, I just shake my head.
That, that's a, that's a goodthing.
Cause it's like the bulls arethe bulls because of Jordan.
Yeah.
Uh, the Cavs were made the Cavsbecause of LeBron.
Yep.
Is this an opportunity for theTimberwolves to become the
Timberwolves?
(39:17):
Uh, Best selling jerseys typetype of franchise in the future
because yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know We will see we willsee what's scary is he can
continue to improve What's scaryis he can continue to improve.
He's not even close to his midtwenties, let alone late
twenties.
He could do this for a decade,but what we also keep doing in
(39:39):
the league right now is as soonas the team wins, we want to
claim a dynasty before they'vedone it again, right?
Denver was supposed to be adynasty.
Milwaukee was supposed to be adynasty.
And we have LeBron James andSteph Curry to blame for that.
You're, you're right.
You're right.
You're right.
Like they made dynasties, theymade dynasties easy to get to
(40:01):
the finals.
Now, like the, they madeplayoffs boring because you knew
who was going to be there at theend.
Like, it was just like, let'sfast forward this LeBron one
game seven versus the Celticssurprise.
Surprise.
Yeah, now, now it's, you know,it's who's going to win.
It's who's going to win.
It is.
(40:21):
It's who's going to win.
It's who's going to win.
Okay.
But here's the thing.
Even if Boston wins though, thatI was thinking name an easier
run.
Yeah, that's, I mean, but peoplediscredit, they earned the
number one seed, which earnedthem the path that they got.
(40:42):
But I mean, Miami, no JimmyButler, like, just look at the,
the East, the East isn't evenfun to watch.
You're watching the East as anappetizer, hoping you get a
solid Western conference game.
That's been me all postseason.
This year is kind of a letdownfor the league if the Celtics
don't make the finals.
(41:03):
If the Pacers go to the finals,it is bad for the league.
If the Pacers make the finals,the NBA is switching something
up on that eastern side.
Yeah, because they did not pullratings.
Did you hear the rumor thatMinnesota might get moved to the
east?
If they do an expansion.
I have heard that if they doexpansion stuff.
Yeah.
Yeah.
(41:23):
The east is and kind of beenkind of bad the past few years.
So, but yeah, it's really, it'sreally been Celtics bucks for
the past few years.
I mean, obviously the heaterthere, but yeah.
There's not as muchentertainment on that, on that
side.
That's for sure.
No, but the East really hasalways had this inevitability.
(41:47):
If this isn't a microcosm ofwhat we've seen for since the
year 2000, you know, I don'tknow what is even before that.
Cause then you're talkingJordan.
Like this is just honestly whatthe Eastern conference is.
It's the West, it's the West andit, and it has been for the
better part of three decades.
that you, it's so hard to knowwhat you're going to see come
(42:11):
out of the Western Conference.
I mean, the Spurs won fivechampionships and never won back
to back.
That's weird.
Every other year.
Like, that's weird.
You know what I mean?
Like It's there's so much likethat.
Uh, I know, I know Oklahoma Citylost.
I know they, the way they lost alot of people loved because
shade, obviously a foul baiter,not Joel Embiid, but close.
(42:36):
Uh, you lump him into that groupwith Jalen Brunson, Luca
Donchic, a couple of these guys,and then he fouls for them to
lose the series.
I don't think, you know, a gamecomes down to the final play.
There's a lot of plays that leadup to it, but you can't keep all
these guys.
It feels like you have someplayers that have, that are kind
of all about the same andsomebody's got to go.
(42:59):
For me, I'm moving Josh Giddey.
I think he's, he's the guy tomove.
Josh Giddey in a first round anda first round pick.
That's, that's a lot.
I've seen, I've seen some mocktrades.
I think you move Giddey and acouple first and you will get a
baller.
Who?
(43:20):
I don't know.
I think for Giddey and a firstround, maybe two.
Maybe two at probably to youtrying to bring Kevin Durant
back.
I know the sons aren't doing thetrade according to that.
Oh, Hey, that is athletic sevenfooter, defensive seven footer.
(43:41):
That is so good.
Roman, that is so good.
You think, would it take twofirst round picks, two firsts
and Josh Giddey?
Yeah, you should, you shouldtrade two firsts.
You should trade two firsts.
I'm saying, but can they getLori for Josh Giddey in one
first round pick?
No, you should go to, but yeah.
(44:01):
Okay.
See needs to make a move to getone more player that can pair
with them.
Yes.
You need to know what Chet'sgoing to do this off season.
Why?
Oh, you mean in terms of likeimprovement?
Yes.
If he hits the weight room,we'll see.
(44:23):
A lot of guys need to hit theweight room.
I know they do.
Like, they do.
I'm just saying.
The defensive teams came out.
Do you see how many centers onall defensive first team?
I mean, the first team is prettymuch all centers and then Herb
Jones And then the second teamis all guards.
It's all guards.
Yep.
The just shows where we're that.
That shows where we're at in theNBA right now.
(44:43):
How important position bigs are.
Yeah.
How important guards are rightthere.
The league is ran by bigs.
I don't care what you say.
The league is ran by bigs.
And if you don't want to say cenI'm not saying centers.
It's ran by bigs.
And what I mean, I've said thismultiple times in the
(45:04):
postseason.
Luka Doncic.
is big for his position.
Dominates.
Where is he right now?
He's in the Western Conferencefinals.
The Minnesota Timberwolves havethe three trees.
They got 37 footers, one thatplays like a guard, another.
That's one of the best threepoint shooters in the
(45:25):
postseason.
And then there's Rudy Gobert,defensive player of the year.
Three trees, all a differentspecies.
You turn around, you look at theBoston Celtics, their forwards
are pushing around IndianaPacers, like it's Varsity versus
JV.
I mean, Jason Tatum is playingthe four, but he's really a
(45:46):
small forward, but the dude issix foot ten.
And if Porzingis isn't hurt,then you've got, you're talking
about Al Horford coming off thebench for you.
So the league's dominated bybigs.
And then you start talking aboutguys, like, you know, you start
talking about your Yoka, whichis like some of these other guys
too.
Like, I know everybody loves tosee some great guards, but like
(46:06):
the league is a lot of it's ranby bigs.
It is, it is center and forwardheavy right now.
That's That's for sure.
And that's why somebody like Antstands out so much because he,
we love to see a guard.
We love to see a true guard.
Yep.
The Steph, Steph, like we loveto see guards.
(46:29):
Wayne, Kobe, Jordan, Steph,cause guards are more fun.
They're more fun to watchentertainment.
Yep.
But like it's a guard, a guardis like a guard's like a pretty
girl you see at the club.
You know, like you might have areally fun time and this is
(46:50):
going to sound crazy, butlongterm you want to get married
to a big, no ditty, please.
No ditty, please.
No ditty.
No, but you know what I mean?
(47:10):
Yes.
Yes.
You understand what I'm saying?
Right.
You understand what I'm saying?
Up to your comparisons rightthere.
All time, all time centers.
It's just, uh, it's a moresurefire path to wins.
Even because, and I'll tell you,and I'll say it this way, Roman,
how many rings does, uh, StephCurry have?
M.
(47:34):
J.
And uh, phil jackson, heorchestrated 11 of the 11
championships.
He won one as a player.
He won one as a player with theKnicks, but he orchestrated his
offense generated 11championships and then Steph
(47:56):
brings in four more steve Kerr.
That's his tree.
Okay.
So the system, and I think Stevemodernized the triangle offense,
he modernized it, but thesystem, that system has
generated 15 championships ledby guards.
There's a very strong argumentthat you could make that if you
(48:20):
took out the triangle offense,championships are won by bigs
someday.
It's like name, name the champsthat are won by guards.
That are not, that Phil Jacksonor someone related to Phil
Jackson was not involved.
(48:42):
I'm pissed.
That's one ring.
The only team that didn't have atop 75 player.
That's one ring.
Only one.
Spurs, but their bigs won themtheir championships.
Yeah.
I mean, I mean LeBron's ring.
LeBron's a forward.
LeBron's rings.
LeBron's a forward, he's not aguard.
(49:02):
That's true, that's true.
Magic, a forward, the Bucks wina championship because they
have, they had Kareem andGiannis seven footers, Hakeem
Olajuwon, big, you could, youcould point to Miami.
You could, you could point toMiami, but they still had
Shaquille O'Neal.
(49:23):
Even though Wade had anincredible run, they still, they
still, they still had Shaq.
Like, like tell me, tell me I'mon to something, man.
I was going to say Warriors, butI mean that's Steve Kerr.
Yeah, that is Steve Kerr.
(49:44):
Man, stew on that, America.
Let me know what you think aboutthat take, because that is
piping hot.
Straight off.
Bigs have been dominating.
That if you take out PhilJackson and his tree, you're
winning, the only way you'rewinning a ring is with the big.
(50:06):
Yeah, what is, what is Jordan'scareer look like if he never
gets, gets himself Phil Jackson?
Um, bro, we know what it lookslike.
He doesn't win championships.
What are you talking about?
How many coaches did he havebefore Phil?
4?
5 coaches?
Yeah, I think it was like 3 or 4of them.
(50:26):
Like, I know a lot of people arelabeling LeBron as a coach
killer and Kevin Duran as acoach killer.
Bro, Kobe went through like 8 or9 coaches.
MJ had to go through 4 or 5coaches before he got Phil.
Without Phil and I'm just notwinning.
He needed Phil and Scotty.
If you have to both of thoseguys, Phil Jackson is really
(50:48):
responsible for the two greatestshooting guards of all time.
A hundred percent, a hundredpercent.
And then Anthony Edwards andwalks into the room and it's he,
this is the issue, Moses.
This is what people are talkingabout right here.
No, he, but hear me out.
He would have walked into theroom.
Yeah, he would have to do a lot.
(51:09):
To move past Dwayne Wade, who Ithink is considered the third
best shooting guard, even thoughhe is probably the most zesty
former NBA player that we have.
I believe Anthony Edwards haswalked into the kitchen.
(51:30):
Okay.
He has walked.
No, I think he has walked in,but he is not.
He there is.
There are no seats open at thetable.
He's walked into the kitchen.
The kids table is still there.
He's knocked at the door for me.
He's awesome.
He's I think he's in the kitchenbecause he's going to the
finals.
Roman.
He's yeah.
But when you say that, but hehasn't Moses, you have to wait
(51:52):
until he goes, I've told youthis every single round.
This guy only has a second roundwin.
We got to chill Mo.
He hasn't even won hisconference yet.
Wade one in year three, justsaying, where's the Shaquille
O'Neal on this team?
Rudy Gobert is don't ever putthose two in the same year.
(52:15):
Don't ever put those two in thesame sentence, literally ever
again in your life.
Rudy Gobert couldn't scratchShaq's balls, dude.
What are you talking about?
Rudy Gobert can't scratch Shaq'sballs.
(52:37):
Don't ever say that to me again.
That's his version of Shaq.
Don't ever say that again.
Will you stop acting like RudyGobert does not have four
defensive player of the yearawards?
Would you stop doing that?
Have you ever seen ShaquilleO'Neal?
Yes, I have.
Why?
I'm not saying he's the sameplayer.
(52:59):
I'm saying that that is hisShaq.
How can you say it's not?
Are you going to say cat is theShaq?
No, I don't think there is aShaq.
That's what I'm saying.
I think there is.
I think I don't think so.
The year it is.
Really?
Because when he touches the ballon offense, you close your eyes
and pray to God that he passesit and it's not a turnover.
(53:23):
But he also holds the defending,the defending champs to 80
points, 70 points, anchoring thedefense.
So he did.
No, he did that.
He, he did do that.
That is, that is true.
But only time is going to tell,Mo, time's going to tell only
(53:45):
time.
He's knocking at the door.
He's knocking.
He's not in the room yet.
By the time we record this nextepisode, we're already going to
have new narratives beingwritten.
We're going to see multiplegames.
The Indiana plays and we'll havemultiple games under our belt in
the Timberwolves series as well.
We have a lot of basketball tolook ahead, uh, to, to look
(54:06):
forward to.
This is like the last week thatwe get, that we get ball every
single night.
And so we have to enjoy it whilewe can, because guys, it's
almost over.
The season is almost over, sowe're going to enjoy it as much
as we can.
If you feel differently.
Or if you agree with me, right,if you're on the money side,
which really has been me allyear long, uh, let me know in
(54:30):
the comments, let me know in thecomments, like, do you agree
with Mo?
Do you agree with row?
Do you agree with your team isin the Western Congress finals.
The team that I said peopleshould watch out for is in the
Eastern Congress finals.
It's true.
But one of us looks really goodand the other just choked game
one You haven't even played gameone.
You're dang freaking right andyou're lucky We haven't because
(54:52):
we're gonna win that one, too Ifyou're not following us on or if
you're not following us already,please we are on instagram
Facebook, if you use thatTwitter, if you, or if you call
it X, we're on every socialmedia platform.
So please give us a follow atswishless pod.
We're on all of your favoritepodcast platforms as well.
Um, so please, if you enjoyedthis episode, share it with
(55:13):
somebody, share it with somebodythat needs to learn about
basketball needs to needs to,you know, improve their game a
little bit.
Uh, maybe needs to fix theirtakes.
Uh, feel free to send them thisepisode and please.
Check, check in with us nextweek.
Uh, season's almost over.
So there's not very manyepisodes left.
So please make sure you tap inwith the at switch list podcast.
Roman, send us off.
(55:35):
It is the conference finals.
Everybody let us know yourthoughts.
Let us know what you agree withdisagree with.
We both got, we both got ouropinions and we're going to tell
them.
So we want to hear yours, too.
He's got Minnesota.
I don't know who I've got, but Idid say the Pacers would make it
this far.
But, uh, like he said, we're onall social medias.
(55:56):
If you're not following us, ifyou're not liking, if you're not
subscribing, if you're notinteracting with us, it's
getting ridiculous.
It's really getting ridiculous.
Conference Finals.
Moses and Roman, Episode 21,Season 2.
Switch List Podcast.
We are here.
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