July 2, 2022 • 37 mins
The visuals of food prep and cooking can be kind of a mystery, so this week Christine and JJ are donning their jaunty chef's hats and stepping into the kitchen to demystify fancy flambéing, precarious pizza tossing, and curious candy making. Bon appetite!
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JJ Hunt (00:03):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
In the not too distant episode, we talked about
some professions that arecompletely visual whose work is
visual. And one of the things wetalked about, which for me was
under the category of the thingsI don't know, that I don't know,
was baristas. And what happensin a Frou Frou coffee shop when
they make a coffee. That wastotally new information to me, I
(01:08):
had no idea how artistic it was.
And it got us thinking aboutcooking in general. And I guess
this is a no brainer for a lotof people. But people love to
watch other people cook. It'spretty mysterious to me, I
despise going to a restaurantwith an open kitchen, I figured
that's what I'm paying for is sothat I don't need to be near the
food prep. But you know, somepeople really like it. It's a
(01:28):
it's a cultural phenomenon. Andclearly that there's more going
on there than I personallyrealized. And so we thought we'd
talk about some of the flashyvisuals of what people do around
cooking and food prep andparticularly in in the media and
the flashy, er side of things.
So, JJ, maybe this is a topicthat's a bit close to your
(01:49):
heart, are we going to startwith pizza because even the
throwing of the pizza dough,like that's kind of a cultural
cliche at this point, but I'mstill a bit vague, I don't
really get it.
JJ Hunt (01:58):
Yeah, the pizza making is, it is a very visual thing,
especially when there's there'sa bit of that flash involved a
little bit of the tossing of thedough. You know, just last
weekend I was at a bar inToronto that's got a pizza joint
inside so there's like a there'sa separate establishment inside
the bar where they're making awood oven pizza Brooklyn pizza,
(02:20):
and and I was seated in a placewhere I was watching the person
work the dough all night, it wasone person working the dough
station. So over and over andover again, not to see them roll
out the dough, make it thedough, stretch the dough
flipping in the air, pass it tothe next person. And it was kind
of hard for me to follow theconversation because into
(02:43):
washing this dough, this doughqueen, it was awesome. She was
so good. Yeah, and there's likelots of different ways to work
the dough. And of course, thekinds of pizza we're going to be
describing today are more ofthe, you know, the handmade, you
know, wood oven pizza, get thehigher end stuff. If you go to
you know, a Pizza Hut or pizzapizza or whatever, $1 Pizza in
(03:08):
New York dollar, a slicer,that's a different kind of thing
that's going to be a little bitmore corporate a little bit
quicker. This is more handmadekind of thing that we're going
to be talking about. So youstart with the dough. In you
know, the dough has been made inahead of time, it's been resting
for a while. So it's just anit's a ball of dough. And so a
pizza maker in a pizza shop likethis is going to take a scraper,
(03:30):
scrape that dough out of thebin, so it comes cleanly, and
then and then they'll put itonto a counter and doesn't have
to be a very big counter surfacefor a pizza maker to you know,
might only be a foot or two deepeven though the pizza you're
making will ultimately be youknow, 18 inches across. You
don't need a huge counter space,lots of flour on the counter
(03:53):
tons in a proper pizza shop. Andthen the first thing you do is
you take that ball of dough,smack it on that prep surface
and and press it flat and youpress it into the dough to kind
of flatten it out and spread itand you're doing this from the
middle of the dough and leavinga little bit of a rim on the
outside. So you're pressing andpressing and pressing and there
(04:14):
are the dough is kind of has gota bit of sponginess to it. So
you're actually at this point,you can see the fingerprints in
the in the dough. You can seethe impressions of the fingers
in there. And after you've donethat for a little while and it's
spread out into a bit of abigger circle. Now it's big
enough for the palms to fitinside. And there's a bit of a
(04:35):
technique here where you pressboth palms in and twist and
stretch at the same time. Sojust a little bit, press twist,
stretch, press twist stretch,and the dough is getting bigger
and bigger and bigger. Again,there's a there's still a rim
around the outside like wherethe crust will eventually be.
But you're pressing in with bothpalms twisting and stretching.
(04:57):
Then when it gets too big itcomes off of The Table, the
counter the board, whateveryou're working on. And then
here's where there are differentstyles of working the dough.
Because again, that the wholeidea is to get a ball of dough,
flat and thin and how you do it,it is up to you. So some folks
take it, there's like a slaptechnique where you pull it off
(05:20):
of the table, rotated in yourhands, and then slap it back
down, and then rotate it liftedoff of the table and slap it
back down. And the gravity andthe slapping action makes the
dough spread thinner and thinnerand thinner, wider and wider and
wider. And that rotating meansthat you're going to, it's going
to spread evenly it there'sactually a very similar
(05:41):
technique for like Malaysianroti, which is uses a greased
board not a flowered board. Butthis slapping of the dough over
and over as you rotate, lift andslap it against the board means
that it gets super, super, superthin. And this is this is a
similar technique with pizzadough. Some people work with the
dough completely off of theboard completely in the air. So
(06:05):
I've seen a technique that islike hands in front of the
chest. So two hands in front ofthe chest, palms facing each
other, and then kind of movingin independent circles away from
you, and then back towards youaway from you, and then back
towards you your two hands, kindof you know, making similar
circles but but not not fullysynchronized. And then, like
(06:27):
imagine making that action butthere's a floppy disk of dough
between your hands vertically.
And so the hands are kind oftipping from side to side, as
they make those circles. It's avery smooth gesture. And again,
what that's doing is it'srotating the dough, and you're
slapping it from one hand to theother and so it's getting bigger
and bigger and bigger. I've alsoseen a technique that's kind of
(06:48):
like a vertical steering wheel.
So you hold the dough kind of bythis cross this rim around the
outside and let the dough sagunder its own weight. And then
you rotate it very quicklybefore it stretches too far and
rip. And you kind of do thatkind of over and over and over
again. And then there's theclassic the the flat disc of
(07:10):
dough held in the air by fists.
And you usually use knucklesbecause fingertips poke through.
So you'll use knuckles or veryflat palms with the fingers
pressed together. And you'relifting the dough in the air as
if it's you know, it's flat, butit's soggy. So it's kind of
hanging over the sides, you kindof stretch and spin and then
(07:31):
kind of just give it a littletoss in the air. So you can then
move your hands, put them in adifferent spot, stretch and
spin. And this is where the tosscomes from. It's that original
kind of just a little bit of atoss in the air so that you can
move your positioning of yourhands as over and over and over
again. And then the big tosses,where you do the same kind of
(07:55):
thing either two knuckles likeknuckles on both hands or
knuckles in one and upon theother. And you hurl the pizza,
like just the dough straightinto the air is spins and spins
and spins and then you catch itwith your knuckles and the back
of your hands and your wrists.
And the stretching of the doughis happening as the pizza is
(08:16):
spinning in the air. And thenthe landing on the on the wrists
and hands the back of the hands.
That's how the dough gets spreadas it goes bigger and bigger and
bigger. And so you take a ballof dough that was like you know
the size of a softball. And nowyou've got a very thin pizza
dough that is you know, almosttwo feet across. It really
stretched out thin.
Christine Malec (08:39):
I'm a big fan of Indira which is Ethiopian,
this delicious, spongy, softunleavened bread. And when you
get it in an Ethiopianrestaurant, it's enormous. It's
a blanket size of of bread. Doyou know how that's done?
JJ Hunt (08:57):
I don't I've had it and enjoyed it. In fact, I think you
and I have had it together. ButI've never seen it made I think
it's I think it is a liquidbatter that's poured in a spiral
shape. Like it's poured in aspiral pattern from the outside
(09:18):
to the inside on a flat griddle.
And and then cooked on one sidebut not the other. I think
that's how it's done. But that'sbased mostly on the patterning
that I've seen in the cookedthing.
Christine Malec (09:32):
Oh my gosh, I had no idea!
JJ Hunt (09:33):
I don't know for sure how it's made.
Christine Malec (09:35):
It's enormous.
JJ Hunt (09:35):
It's huge.
Christine Malec (09:36):
Yeah, when you order is sometimes, if you get
it to go for example, it'sfolded up like a quilt.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah yeah.
It's, it's huge. I have a friendwho in his, you know, middle
age, he decided to take upcooking and he didn't really
know where to start. And hesaid, I'm gonna start with
cooking in a walk. And I said,Oh, that's interesting. Why? He
(09:58):
said, it just looks cool. Oops,it looks really manly, you know,
it's really fast and aggressiveand it's really hot, like the
temperature is really hot andyou're moving quickly and it
just looks like a manly where toplace to start. And so it just
kind of went. Alright. And somaybe Can we talk a bit about
wok cooking like the Chinesekind of walk Asian walk, cooking
(10:20):
and what that looks like.
JJ Hunt (10:21):
Ya, it is I mean, it's pretty dramatic. You know, when
you're cooking with a walk athome, your stove is, if you put
it on its highest gas setting,it's gonna get reasonably hot.
And you can still you know, thebig round walk with the
specialty tools. It's fun tocook with. But yeah, I can, I
can see why your friend would belike watching restaurant. chefs
(10:45):
cook in a walk or street foodbeing cooked in a walk, that's
when it gets really dramatic. Sothose walks are huge. So at
home, you might have a walk thatis eight to 16 inches across
right eight to 16 inches indiameter, like like a Captain
America shield shape, but alittle bit deeper. So maybe 16
inches across, maybe five inchesdeep. But a street vendor is
(11:10):
going to have a walk that mightbe two or three feet across or
bigger. And they might be six oreight to 12 Like really huge
walks. And these are seasonedheavy duty steel. So they
usually look quite blackened onthe bottom and quite glossy on
(11:30):
the inside. Look, they alwayslook just a little bit greasy.
That's that's their kind ofnonstick. You know, surfaces
that seasoned steel, generallyrounded on the bottom. The ones
at home, they'll have one longpan handle. But the really big
ones they have too small handleson the side which are more like
you know, the handles on adresser drawer or something like
(11:52):
that. So you can pick thesewalks up with two hands and
carry them you couldn't possiblydo it with one handle. And then
you got Yeah, the differenttools to use the walk. There's
the walk spatula, again, steel,it's usually got a wide shovel
like head with a slightlyrounded front end so that it
(12:12):
fits the contours of the walk.
People also use big ladles,they're very common tool that
you know, and there's a very,there's a lot of fast action
when cooking with a walk becauseit's all about cooking with
extreme heat. So the walks inyou know, street restaurants or
in commercial kitchens, they'resitting on, like jet engines of
(12:34):
fire. I mean, just, if you'veever like been in front of one
of these things you'll hear thesound is like this, like when do
you roaring sound, that's thesound of a big gas flow. And so
the flames shoot up the sides inthe back of the walk truly like
(12:54):
jet engines. It's noexaggeration, big, powerful
roaring gas flames. And so youhave to keep the food in the
walk moving very, very quicklyby shaking the walk back and
forth by doing live with thewalk by moving your your spatula
or your ladle excuse constantlystirring the walks. Yeah, it's
really really fast. Really,really high energy. Big, amazing
(13:18):
hot flames that are like notjust licking the sides of the
walk, shooting out the sidesfrom underneath. Truly.
Christine Malec (13:30):
You've mentioned street food a couple
of times, and I know you'vetraveled a lot. Can you can you
tell us some description storiesabout some of the most
spectacular street cookinginstances you've seen?
JJ Hunt (13:41):
Yeah, I mean, I eat at street stalls whenever I travel.
If there's a street stall andthere's a lineup I'm far more
confident in the kitchen and thefood than if you go into a
restaurant, you don't knowwhat's going on, you know, in
the kitchen. I love street food.
And so when we were just beforegoing traveling to Southeast
Asia with with the family in thein the weeks leading up to it,
we're getting kind of excited,and we'd been watching some TV
(14:02):
shows and on street food oncooking on food in different
countries. And we saw thisamazing chef named Jay phi, who
is this tiny woman in her 70sWho's a was a street food chef
in Bangkok, who then opened alittle restaurant that's just a
like a stall kind of restaurant,a hole in the wall. And she was
(14:22):
the first street food chef everto receive a Michelin star like
it just like the higheststandard of cooking from the
street food chef. And so weloved watching this woman cook
it was awesome. And then acouple weeks later, we get to
Bangkok and we discover totallyby coincidence that our hotel
was right beside her restaurant.
Christine Malec (14:47):
Whaaaat?!
JJ Hunt (14:47):
Yeah, it was awesome.
We're like "I thinkthat's her!" And so you could go
Christine Malec (14:49):
Oh my god.
early in the morning andthroughout the day and watch her
cook and she's amazing, tinywoman in her 70s And she wears a
black apron layers of gloves, ablack tooth and ski goggles,
because she's cooking in a rowof blackened stone steel. And
(15:13):
terracotta stands with theseintense burners inside of them.
And she's got a series of walks.
And it's the the heat is so hoton her. She's got these goggles
on, and she's got fans pointingat her, because the flames roar
on the outside of her walks. Andshe makes crab omelets and dry
tom yum. And there's always acrowd around her. And in the
(15:36):
people, the crowd has to standback, not just because she's a
star and needs her space. Butbecause of the heat. It's
incredibly hot, near thesewalks. So j phi is doing her
thing and Instagram are sothey're taking pictures. It was
awesome. Just fantastic.
Videos aresuper popular cooking shows and
(15:59):
tick tock and YouTube. Andhonestly, I get kind of grumpy
because when I want a recipe, Idon't want the person's life
history or their flippingtechnique. I want the recipe.
And so to me, they're a bit of athorn in my side, but I know
they're really popular. So whatmakes a popular cooking video?
What's the draw?
JJ Hunt (16:18):
Yeah, so this it's really changed. I mean, there's
a lot of this stuff like whatyou're talking about this the,
you know, the neverending storyabout how grandma used to do
it...
Christine Malec (16:27):
Ha ha ha! When I was three years old, I had my
first taste of coconut. I don'tcare give me the recipe!
JJ Hunt (16:33):
How many cups! Just tell me how many cups!
Christine Malec (16:35):
Just tell me.
JJ Hunt (16:36):
Yeah, that's a pretty kind of bloggie phenomenon. Like
a lot of the bloggers do that.
And some of the video makers dothat as well, where they just
talk and talk and talk. But thenthere's the other extreme as
well, where things have gottenreally condensed, like when I
was a kid, when we were kids andwatching cooking shows when
you're home sick from school,you would like I quite liked
those. But they would do adddish over the course of a half
(16:59):
an hour like literally a singlehere's how you make this one
pasta dish and they would take22 minutes to make the whole
dish.
Christine Malec (17:08):
Yeah! Oh, that's not how it's done
anymore? That's not the way theydo it these days? Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (17:13):
On tick tock, you'll get dishes, you'll get whole
meals that are presented in ticktock videos in 15 seconds. It's
really super, super, super fast.
So you'll get like a tick talkermight take just clips like one
second even half second clips ofvery visually rich or beautiful
(17:34):
moments in the cooking process.
Put it all together and maybenarrate it, maybe not narrate
it, maybe just have On screentext give little bits of
instruction, maybe they'll justpop in with jokes or with funny
voices or whatever it is. Andhonestly you can get a whole
(17:58):
recipe in a tick tock video. In15 seconds. It's wild. I watched
one because I'm not on ticktock. I did go on watch some
compilation videos on YouTubeabout this. And there's one tick
talker in this one video. So hedid lasagna, he made lasagna and
presented the video in 40seconds. And this was homemade
(18:18):
lasagna, homemade sauce,homemade pasta, everything and
filmed each step and and thenput only a tiny little 1/3 of a
second clip. So I counted Islowed it down and then counted
the number. In 40 seconds. Thisguy used 97 different shots.
(18:41):
Everything chopping can openingstirring, sizzling. And what he
did was he used not only the thevisual of all of those things,
but a little tiny second of theaudio as well. And they timed it
so that the chopping can openingstirring, sizzling, created a
rhythm created a soundtrack sothat it was really cool. So it
(19:04):
had that beat for chopping andstirring and then it would have
moments where he would like letthe sizzling go on for like a
really long, one and a halfseconds and then go back to like
Chop Chop, chop, chop, chop. Ohmy god perfectly timed. And then
40 seconds later, you see buddyeating his gorgeous looking
(19:25):
lasagna made entirely fromscratch.
Christine Malec (19:28):
In videos that are popular origin cooking shows
what constitutes skill, what notjust the flashy, you know, he
made his pizza dough spin 15times without touching it. But
what constitutes genuine, holy,that's an accomplished chef.
JJ Hunt (19:49):
That's interesting. So there are a few things that like
home chefs do too. I don't knowif it's if it really makes them
skilled or accomplished but it'san indicates a way to show
people that not only are youcooking efficiently, but like
you know what you're doing. Oneis good knife skills, if you've
got solid knife skills that justgives the impression that you
(20:11):
know what you're doing. And somaybe it's about cutting an
onion by using just the tip ofthe knife in one direction, and
then turning the onion and usingthe whole knife in a rocking
action so that you are dicing,without, you know, cutting
individual little pieces ofonion, maybe it's something like
that, or it's holding whateveryou're cutting with your
(20:33):
knuckles, so that you can rockyour knife very, very quickly,
very close to the knuckles, andyou're not worried about
chopping off a fingertip. Sothere's some knife work that can
really look impressive. And likeI said, give the impression you
know what you're doing. Theother thing is the toss. If
you've got like a saucepan, or awalk or any kind of cooking
(20:55):
vessel that is relativelyshallow and has curved sides, so
not a straight sided pot, one ofthe best ways and it is
genuinely a good way to mix isby tossing what's in the pan.
And it's a very specifictechnique. So you essentially
you're holding the pan by thehandle, and you tip it away from
you, so that the food slidesaway from you. But then before
(21:18):
it slides out of the pan, youflick your wrist back, so that
the opposite side of the panthat the far end of the pan
flips the food back toward you.
And then you catch it in the panon the side that's closest to
your hand. And so I'm not tryingto sit home just very quick.
It's actually once you get thehang of it. Yeah, pretty easy.
It's just all it's about thatmuscle memory, you have to know
(21:40):
how much flick to get and youcan toss anything from like
noodles from spaghetti to youcan you can fold an omelet like
that just by flicking it halfwayso that the omelet starts to
slide out and then slides backon itself. If you've got good
pan flicking skills, again, itjust, it makes it look like like
(22:00):
you know, I've seen some cookswho like practice that but you
know, don't know how to boilwater, just so it looks like
they know what they're doing.
Yeah, it's effective.
Christine Malec (22:14):
Can we run through a flambé? It's I don't
know if this qualifies asflambé. But my very favorite
thing in this category isSaganaki. So when you're in a
Greek restaurant, and they bringout the slab of cheese, and then
something happens with I guessit's alcohol on a blowtorch or
whatever, but what's going onthere and how does the cheese
not get burnt to a cinder?
JJ Hunt (22:33):
Yeah, good question. So I mean, the flambé I think was
one of those things that wasdone a lot in formal French
service for a while, so you'd goto a restaurant and they would
do table sides, food prep, ortable side plating, things like
that. And then in lots ofdifferent cultures, you've got
the in Greek restaurants youhave shots that are on fire, you
(22:56):
have the like the flamingcheese, and there's different
ways to do it. But often again,it's it's a saucepan something
kind of shallow, with a slightlyrounded side not straight sided
pan. And then usually there's agas burner involved and you
know, you're making your foodyour chop, you chop up your your
fruit and you throw it in thepan, a little bit of sugar, a
(23:17):
little bit of water, whatever itis to kind of start to make some
kind of candying or some somekind of syrup. And then you
throw in a shot of alcohol.
Usually a like wine and beerdoesn't work you need something
with more alcohol so you uselike a rum or a brandy, a liquor
of some kind. And, again, thatsame tipping action that you
that you were that you usedbefore in the flipping, you tip
(23:39):
away from you so that the liquidthat's in the pan kind of goes
toward the far edge and you holdthat over your burner so that
the flames that are licking upthe side of the of the saucepan,
just touch the the alcohol inthe pan so you can do blow
(23:59):
torchy kind of things like tomake a creme caramelle you get a
little tiny blowtorch and youblow towards the top. But I
think for most flambés, if youhave a gas burner portable or in
the kitchen or whatever you tipit, the flame from the burner
goes up the side of the pan, andthen the whole pan everything in
the pan catches fire. But it'snot it's it's not like a
(24:21):
campfire. It's not like one ofthe wok cooking jets like it's
not this huge thick. You know,really dense flame. It's very
light. It's almost transparent.
It's a very, very muchtranslucent flame, a little bit
of blue in there, a little bitof orange in there, it can go
(24:41):
quite high, like the flamesmight be two feet high. But
unless the lights are dimmed,it's not super visible. In fact,
I've seen people burn themselvesbecause it's like, you know, it
goes on for a little while andthen all of the alcohol burns
off and you're just left withThe whatever liquid in syrup
that is in the pan, but as it'sburning down, it's getting
(25:04):
smaller and smaller and smaller,and it looks like it's gone.
Visually, if it's not so dark,you can't see the flame anymore.
But if you put your hand overit, you'll discover there's
still some flame left in there.
So some people willautomatically or just, you know,
by safety force of habit, theywill tamp it down, they'll put a
(25:24):
lid on it for a second or two,just to make sure the flame is
completely out, and then takethe lid off to to continue
cooking. So that's how a lot ofthat happens. And the reason
that things don't burn isbecause the out it's the alcohol
that's burning, and it's burningvery quickly. It doesn't last.
Okay, so again, if it was thesame, if it was the same amount
(25:45):
of time that a piece of cheesewas in a campfire, by by cheese.
That's right, that's right. It'sthe alcohol that's burning super
quickly. And you know, it's justevaporating it all off very,
very fast burning it off fast.
Christine Malec (26:04):
Let's talk about a subject close to my
heart, which is candy. Andhonestly, I don't even have
questions, you could just talkabout anything I'm interested
JJ Hunt (26:13):
in. Yeah, my youngest is very much a candy, a candy
lover, too. In our household.
I'm the cook. My wife, Lois isthe baker and our youngest is up
for both. But candy and bakingis his passion. And so he got
obsessed with watching candy,making videos. And then making
hard candy. This was a thingthat he really got into. And you
(26:37):
can see why the visually thecandy making is quite stunning
hard candies in particular,there's they fall into this
category of the of thesatisfying video, there's
something about the texture ofcandy as it's being made, the
consistency and the repetition,you need to be doing things with
(26:57):
with with this molten candy overand over and over again, in
order to achieve certain colorsand consistencies. And the you
know, yeah, it's reallyinteresting. So at its simplest,
you boil sugar and water andstir it, stir it, stir it, stir
it until it's smooth and silky,the consistency eventually gets
(27:21):
to the point where like theconsistency of warm honey. And
then you pour that onto a flatprobably stainless steel
surface. Like a big stainlesssteel table, if you're a
professional, you're using acooling table. So it's a big
stainless steel table, but it'scooled from below. So that helps
(27:43):
you know cool your can yourmolten candy much more quickly.
So very quickly, when you pourthis kind of warm honey
consistency.
You know the substance is moltencandy onto this table or take it
off the heat or if the table iscooled, it becomes stiffer. And
(28:06):
it gets it is like playing whenyou watch people you they're
folding it over onto itself. Andyou know picking it up and
putting it back on the table sothat new parts of the of this
you know Visca see blob getcooled. And to the right
temperature. It is a little bitlike watching people play with
(28:26):
lava. It's molten, and it's kindof somewhere between a solid and
a liquid. So it gets folded overand over it gets eventually
cooled down. And then it will itwill get to a consistency that
the candy maker needs to buildwith. So it'll be a blob that
will have you know finite edges,it doesn't pour like water on
(28:49):
the table. But if you pick up aclump, it will ooze out of your
hand drop back onto the blob andbecome one again like it's very,
it's in Cy it's like a littlebit soothing to watch. So then
the next thing that they need todo is pour in some coloring or
flavoring which they'll do kindof early on in this folding
(29:12):
process so that you can turn theyou know sugar and water into a
certain flavor peppermint orcoloring Enzo goes red or green
or whatever. But you can alsochange the color by by air
rating it so there are thesethings called candy hooks and
they look like like a Meat Hookand a meat locker. Big iron
(29:33):
hooks hanging off the wall alittle bit over head height. And
so what a candy maker will do istake this this cooled molten
candy so it can be picked upbecause it's cooled enough it's
not just like you know notwatery, and then they throw this
strip of molten candy over thehook and then it sags over the
(29:56):
side because of the weights andyou bundle it back up and you
fold it over the hook again. Andthen it sags. And you fold it
over the hook again, and itsags. And you do this over and
over and over like maybe 75times over and over. And what
you're doing is as it'sstretching, and, and then
folding it back over itself, andthen stretching and folding it
back over itself. Tiny littleair bubbles are getting into the
(30:20):
candy and changing its color. Soit will make the candy which
might have been kind of like acrystally golden color when it
was just sugar and water, maybeit becomes clean and white, but
opaque. That's reallyinteresting to watch this
process. And you can change youcan change how glossy it is you
(30:41):
can change how dull it is youcan change the color by doing
this. There are also machinesthat do a version of this that
especially they're used fortaffy, I think you can use it
for either candy or taffy. Butthe Taffy pulling machine is
awesome. It's it's a machinethat automates this concept
automates this polling unfoldingover and over and over again.
(31:04):
And the way it does it with iswith four bars that move around
each other so that when you putthe Moulton candy across it, it
automatically folds andstretches folds and stretches.
So this isn't exactly accurate.
But it's kind of close. If youmake a like a peace sign with
your index and middle finger onboth hands. So you got two V's
(31:26):
index and middle finger bothhands, and then put them flat in
front of you pointing at eachother. And then interlace your
fingers without touching. Soyou've got index finger on one
hand, index finger on the othermiddle finger on one hand,
middle finger on the other, andthen make tiny circles away from
you and back toward you so thatyour fingertips are circling
(31:51):
each other, but they're neverquite touching. That's not
dissimilar. It's not exactlyright. But it's not dissimilar
to the way these machines work.
So then if you can imagine ifyou've got molten candy draped
over four bars, like yourfingers, as they rotate around
(32:13):
each other, the molten candy orthe Taffy will get pulled and
stretched and folded over itselfover and over and over again.
It's totally mesmerizing, it'sreally soothing to watch because
it's it's repetitive. But eachfold and stretch is unique.
(32:34):
Right? Every time it happens,it's a little bit thicker, a
little bit thinner, that coloris slowly changing. The silky
smooth texture is really creamyand appetizing. It's super
calming, it's really calming.
And then the candy maker takeswhatever molten candy has been
stretched and pulled and it'sgot to the right color. It's the
(32:55):
right consistency, it's glossyexactly the way they want it,
they take it back to the table.
And then they start layeringwith different colors to create
different patterns. So thepatterns at first look really,
really blocky and crude. But thecandy makers know that they're
going to further roll andstretch and twist that candy so
(33:19):
that the blocky patterns thatthey built in at the beginning
will eventually become verydelicate. So like let's take the
simplest like a candy cane. Sothe candy maker takes to the
table, a block of white and ablock of red. And they create a
pattern of stripes. You know,two inch by two inch stripes,
(33:42):
maybe a foot long, one after theother, maybe some are a little
bit thinner. Some are a littlebit wider, but you know
basically creating a stripedsheet two inches thick of red
and white pattern. And then theytake a thick roll of white candy
that's like really like thediameter of your bicep, like a
big big lump of of white candy.
And they put that into themiddle of this sheet of striped
(34:04):
red and white. And then theyroll that into a tube so that
you've got the white in themiddle, the striped red and
white are on the outside. Andthen they roll that back and
forth back and forth. Kind oflike did you ever like make
snakes with playdough orplasticine as a kid where you
just roll it in your hand anduntil it gets longer and
(34:25):
thinner, longer and thinner.
Yes, that's what they do withthis is just back and forth,
back and forth. And as that tubegets thinner and longer, they
then stretch it out thinner andthinner and thinner until that
big big lump is now as thick asyour finger. It's really thin.
(34:45):
And then those stripes of coursethey're super thin too but
they're still very distinct.
They're clean and distinct. Theythe colors haven't melted.
They're still a very distinctand then they can take that
they'll chop it into secondshins, so you've got like, it's
now as you know, thick as yourfinger, you chop it into what,
six or eight inch section. Andthen they roll them in a very
(35:06):
particular way to get a spin toget a spiral. So you know, you
roll a little bit, instead ofjust going back and forth with
parallel, they'll roll it sothat one hand goes ahead the
other, the other one pulls backa little bit, whatever, there's
a very special technique totwist. And so now all of those
parallel lines have twisted intothat spirally candy cane
(35:28):
pattern, you bend to hook shapeinto the top, you'll let it
cool. And now you've got a candycane. And they can do that with
all kinds of things. So that'sthe simplest version, they can
do the exact same thing, butlayer in different colors. Listo
as they're building this likelump that they know they're
going to roll out they can layerin different colors. And then
(35:50):
when they're rolling it andstretching it what becomes
apparent is all of those colorsand patterns that they've
layered on inside becomepictures on the end so they know
when you cut off the tips ofthis long, you know to cut it
off. On the end, you might havea picture of you know, a pattern
(36:11):
like a bow or a hat or maybe acharacter's face. little panda
faces cartoon characters. Yeah,these little tiny, tiny, tiny
hard candies and one of thesebig lumps will make hundreds
hundreds 1000s of these tinylittle, you know, like half
third of a pinky sized candiesin the end, all with little
(36:36):
designs inside.
Christine Malec (36:39):
That's so cute! We love making this podcast. If
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(36:59):
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(37:20):
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description to me.com and youcan follow us on Twitter at talk
Description.
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
In the not too distant episode, we talked about
some professions that arecompletely visual whose work is
visual. And one of the things wetalked about, which for me was
under the category of the thingsI don't know, that I don't know,
was baristas. And what happensin a Frou Frou coffee shop when
they make a coffee. That wastotally new information to me, I
(01:08):
had no idea how artistic it was.
And it got us thinking aboutcooking in general. And I guess
this is a no brainer for a lotof people. But people love to
watch other people cook. It'spretty mysterious to me, I
despise going to a restaurantwith an open kitchen, I figured
that's what I'm paying for is sothat I don't need to be near the
food prep. But you know, somepeople really like it. It's a
(01:28):
it's a cultural phenomenon. Andclearly that there's more going
on there than I personallyrealized. And so we thought we'd
talk about some of the flashyvisuals of what people do around
cooking and food prep andparticularly in in the media and
the flashy, er side of things.
So, JJ, maybe this is a topicthat's a bit close to your
(01:49):
heart, are we going to startwith pizza because even the
throwing of the pizza dough,like that's kind of a cultural
cliche at this point, but I'mstill a bit vague, I don't
really get it.
JJ Hunt (01:58):
Yeah, the pizza making is, it is a very visual thing,
especially when there's there'sa bit of that flash involved a
little bit of the tossing of thedough. You know, just last
weekend I was at a bar inToronto that's got a pizza joint
inside so there's like a there'sa separate establishment inside
the bar where they're making awood oven pizza Brooklyn pizza,
(02:20):
and and I was seated in a placewhere I was watching the person
work the dough all night, it wasone person working the dough
station. So over and over andover again, not to see them roll
out the dough, make it thedough, stretch the dough
flipping in the air, pass it tothe next person. And it was kind
of hard for me to follow theconversation because into
(02:43):
washing this dough, this doughqueen, it was awesome. She was
so good. Yeah, and there's likelots of different ways to work
the dough. And of course, thekinds of pizza we're going to be
describing today are more ofthe, you know, the handmade, you
know, wood oven pizza, get thehigher end stuff. If you go to
you know, a Pizza Hut or pizzapizza or whatever, $1 Pizza in
(03:08):
New York dollar, a slicer,that's a different kind of thing
that's going to be a little bitmore corporate a little bit
quicker. This is more handmadekind of thing that we're going
to be talking about. So youstart with the dough. In you
know, the dough has been made inahead of time, it's been resting
for a while. So it's just anit's a ball of dough. And so a
pizza maker in a pizza shop likethis is going to take a scraper,
(03:30):
scrape that dough out of thebin, so it comes cleanly, and
then and then they'll put itonto a counter and doesn't have
to be a very big counter surfacefor a pizza maker to you know,
might only be a foot or two deepeven though the pizza you're
making will ultimately be youknow, 18 inches across. You
don't need a huge counter space,lots of flour on the counter
(03:53):
tons in a proper pizza shop. Andthen the first thing you do is
you take that ball of dough,smack it on that prep surface
and and press it flat and youpress it into the dough to kind
of flatten it out and spread itand you're doing this from the
middle of the dough and leavinga little bit of a rim on the
outside. So you're pressing andpressing and pressing and there
(04:14):
are the dough is kind of has gota bit of sponginess to it. So
you're actually at this point,you can see the fingerprints in
the in the dough. You can seethe impressions of the fingers
in there. And after you've donethat for a little while and it's
spread out into a bit of abigger circle. Now it's big
enough for the palms to fitinside. And there's a bit of a
(04:35):
technique here where you pressboth palms in and twist and
stretch at the same time. Sojust a little bit, press twist,
stretch, press twist stretch,and the dough is getting bigger
and bigger and bigger. Again,there's a there's still a rim
around the outside like wherethe crust will eventually be.
But you're pressing in with bothpalms twisting and stretching.
(04:57):
Then when it gets too big itcomes off of The Table, the
counter the board, whateveryou're working on. And then
here's where there are differentstyles of working the dough.
Because again, that the wholeidea is to get a ball of dough,
flat and thin and how you do it,it is up to you. So some folks
take it, there's like a slaptechnique where you pull it off
(05:20):
of the table, rotated in yourhands, and then slap it back
down, and then rotate it liftedoff of the table and slap it
back down. And the gravity andthe slapping action makes the
dough spread thinner and thinnerand thinner, wider and wider and
wider. And that rotating meansthat you're going to, it's going
to spread evenly it there'sactually a very similar
(05:41):
technique for like Malaysianroti, which is uses a greased
board not a flowered board. Butthis slapping of the dough over
and over as you rotate, lift andslap it against the board means
that it gets super, super, superthin. And this is this is a
similar technique with pizzadough. Some people work with the
dough completely off of theboard completely in the air. So
(06:05):
I've seen a technique that islike hands in front of the
chest. So two hands in front ofthe chest, palms facing each
other, and then kind of movingin independent circles away from
you, and then back towards youaway from you, and then back
towards you your two hands, kindof you know, making similar
circles but but not not fullysynchronized. And then, like
(06:27):
imagine making that action butthere's a floppy disk of dough
between your hands vertically.
And so the hands are kind oftipping from side to side, as
they make those circles. It's avery smooth gesture. And again,
what that's doing is it'srotating the dough, and you're
slapping it from one hand to theother and so it's getting bigger
and bigger and bigger. I've alsoseen a technique that's kind of
(06:48):
like a vertical steering wheel.
So you hold the dough kind of bythis cross this rim around the
outside and let the dough sagunder its own weight. And then
you rotate it very quicklybefore it stretches too far and
rip. And you kind of do thatkind of over and over and over
again. And then there's theclassic the the flat disc of
(07:10):
dough held in the air by fists.
And you usually use knucklesbecause fingertips poke through.
So you'll use knuckles or veryflat palms with the fingers
pressed together. And you'relifting the dough in the air as
if it's you know, it's flat, butit's soggy. So it's kind of
hanging over the sides, you kindof stretch and spin and then
(07:31):
kind of just give it a littletoss in the air. So you can then
move your hands, put them in adifferent spot, stretch and
spin. And this is where the tosscomes from. It's that original
kind of just a little bit of atoss in the air so that you can
move your positioning of yourhands as over and over and over
again. And then the big tosses,where you do the same kind of
(07:55):
thing either two knuckles likeknuckles on both hands or
knuckles in one and upon theother. And you hurl the pizza,
like just the dough straightinto the air is spins and spins
and spins and then you catch itwith your knuckles and the back
of your hands and your wrists.
And the stretching of the doughis happening as the pizza is
(08:16):
spinning in the air. And thenthe landing on the on the wrists
and hands the back of the hands.
That's how the dough gets spreadas it goes bigger and bigger and
bigger. And so you take a ballof dough that was like you know
the size of a softball. And nowyou've got a very thin pizza
dough that is you know, almosttwo feet across. It really
stretched out thin.
Christine Malec (08:39):
I'm a big fan of Indira which is Ethiopian,
this delicious, spongy, softunleavened bread. And when you
get it in an Ethiopianrestaurant, it's enormous. It's
a blanket size of of bread. Doyou know how that's done?
JJ Hunt (08:57):
I don't I've had it and enjoyed it. In fact, I think you
and I have had it together. ButI've never seen it made I think
it's I think it is a liquidbatter that's poured in a spiral
shape. Like it's poured in aspiral pattern from the outside
(09:18):
to the inside on a flat griddle.
And and then cooked on one sidebut not the other. I think
that's how it's done. But that'sbased mostly on the patterning
that I've seen in the cookedthing.
Christine Malec (09:32):
Oh my gosh, I had no idea!
JJ Hunt (09:33):
I don't know for sure how it's made.
Christine Malec (09:35):
It's enormous.
JJ Hunt (09:35):
It's huge.
Christine Malec (09:36):
Yeah, when you order is sometimes, if you get
it to go for example, it'sfolded up like a quilt.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah yeah.
It's, it's huge. I have a friendwho in his, you know, middle
age, he decided to take upcooking and he didn't really
know where to start. And hesaid, I'm gonna start with
cooking in a walk. And I said,Oh, that's interesting. Why? He
(09:58):
said, it just looks cool. Oops,it looks really manly, you know,
it's really fast and aggressiveand it's really hot, like the
temperature is really hot andyou're moving quickly and it
just looks like a manly where toplace to start. And so it just
kind of went. Alright. And somaybe Can we talk a bit about
wok cooking like the Chinesekind of walk Asian walk, cooking
(10:20):
and what that looks like.
JJ Hunt (10:21):
Ya, it is I mean, it's pretty dramatic. You know, when
you're cooking with a walk athome, your stove is, if you put
it on its highest gas setting,it's gonna get reasonably hot.
And you can still you know, thebig round walk with the
specialty tools. It's fun tocook with. But yeah, I can, I
can see why your friend would belike watching restaurant. chefs
(10:45):
cook in a walk or street foodbeing cooked in a walk, that's
when it gets really dramatic. Sothose walks are huge. So at
home, you might have a walk thatis eight to 16 inches across
right eight to 16 inches indiameter, like like a Captain
America shield shape, but alittle bit deeper. So maybe 16
inches across, maybe five inchesdeep. But a street vendor is
(11:10):
going to have a walk that mightbe two or three feet across or
bigger. And they might be six oreight to 12 Like really huge
walks. And these are seasonedheavy duty steel. So they
usually look quite blackened onthe bottom and quite glossy on
(11:30):
the inside. Look, they alwayslook just a little bit greasy.
That's that's their kind ofnonstick. You know, surfaces
that seasoned steel, generallyrounded on the bottom. The ones
at home, they'll have one longpan handle. But the really big
ones they have too small handleson the side which are more like
you know, the handles on adresser drawer or something like
(11:52):
that. So you can pick thesewalks up with two hands and
carry them you couldn't possiblydo it with one handle. And then
you got Yeah, the differenttools to use the walk. There's
the walk spatula, again, steel,it's usually got a wide shovel
like head with a slightlyrounded front end so that it
(12:12):
fits the contours of the walk.
People also use big ladles,they're very common tool that
you know, and there's a very,there's a lot of fast action
when cooking with a walk becauseit's all about cooking with
extreme heat. So the walks inyou know, street restaurants or
in commercial kitchens, they'resitting on, like jet engines of
(12:34):
fire. I mean, just, if you'veever like been in front of one
of these things you'll hear thesound is like this, like when do
you roaring sound, that's thesound of a big gas flow. And so
the flames shoot up the sides inthe back of the walk truly like
(12:54):
jet engines. It's noexaggeration, big, powerful
roaring gas flames. And so youhave to keep the food in the
walk moving very, very quicklyby shaking the walk back and
forth by doing live with thewalk by moving your your spatula
or your ladle excuse constantlystirring the walks. Yeah, it's
really really fast. Really,really high energy. Big, amazing
(13:18):
hot flames that are like notjust licking the sides of the
walk, shooting out the sidesfrom underneath. Truly.
Christine Malec (13:30):
You've mentioned street food a couple
of times, and I know you'vetraveled a lot. Can you can you
tell us some description storiesabout some of the most
spectacular street cookinginstances you've seen?
JJ Hunt (13:41):
Yeah, I mean, I eat at street stalls whenever I travel.
If there's a street stall andthere's a lineup I'm far more
confident in the kitchen and thefood than if you go into a
restaurant, you don't knowwhat's going on, you know, in
the kitchen. I love street food.
And so when we were just beforegoing traveling to Southeast
Asia with with the family in thein the weeks leading up to it,
we're getting kind of excited,and we'd been watching some TV
(14:02):
shows and on street food oncooking on food in different
countries. And we saw thisamazing chef named Jay phi, who
is this tiny woman in her 70sWho's a was a street food chef
in Bangkok, who then opened alittle restaurant that's just a
like a stall kind of restaurant,a hole in the wall. And she was
(14:22):
the first street food chef everto receive a Michelin star like
it just like the higheststandard of cooking from the
street food chef. And so weloved watching this woman cook
it was awesome. And then acouple weeks later, we get to
Bangkok and we discover totallyby coincidence that our hotel
was right beside her restaurant.
Christine Malec (14:47):
Whaaaat?!
JJ Hunt (14:47):
Yeah, it was awesome.
We're like "I thinkthat's her!" And so you could go
Christine Malec (14:49):
Oh my god.
early in the morning andthroughout the day and watch her
cook and she's amazing, tinywoman in her 70s And she wears a
black apron layers of gloves, ablack tooth and ski goggles,
because she's cooking in a rowof blackened stone steel. And
(15:13):
terracotta stands with theseintense burners inside of them.
And she's got a series of walks.
And it's the the heat is so hoton her. She's got these goggles
on, and she's got fans pointingat her, because the flames roar
on the outside of her walks. Andshe makes crab omelets and dry
tom yum. And there's always acrowd around her. And in the
(15:36):
people, the crowd has to standback, not just because she's a
star and needs her space. Butbecause of the heat. It's
incredibly hot, near thesewalks. So j phi is doing her
thing and Instagram are sothey're taking pictures. It was
awesome. Just fantastic.
Videos aresuper popular cooking shows and
(15:59):
tick tock and YouTube. Andhonestly, I get kind of grumpy
because when I want a recipe, Idon't want the person's life
history or their flippingtechnique. I want the recipe.
And so to me, they're a bit of athorn in my side, but I know
they're really popular. So whatmakes a popular cooking video?
What's the draw?
JJ Hunt (16:18):
Yeah, so this it's really changed. I mean, there's
a lot of this stuff like whatyou're talking about this the,
you know, the neverending storyabout how grandma used to do
it...
Christine Malec (16:27):
Ha ha ha! When I was three years old, I had my
first taste of coconut. I don'tcare give me the recipe!
JJ Hunt (16:33):
How many cups! Just tell me how many cups!
Christine Malec (16:35):
Just tell me.
JJ Hunt (16:36):
Yeah, that's a pretty kind of bloggie phenomenon. Like
a lot of the bloggers do that.
And some of the video makers dothat as well, where they just
talk and talk and talk. But thenthere's the other extreme as
well, where things have gottenreally condensed, like when I
was a kid, when we were kids andwatching cooking shows when
you're home sick from school,you would like I quite liked
those. But they would do adddish over the course of a half
(16:59):
an hour like literally a singlehere's how you make this one
pasta dish and they would take22 minutes to make the whole
dish.
Christine Malec (17:08):
Yeah! Oh, that's not how it's done
anymore? That's not the way theydo it these days? Ha ha ha!
JJ Hunt (17:13):
On tick tock, you'll get dishes, you'll get whole
meals that are presented in ticktock videos in 15 seconds. It's
really super, super, super fast.
So you'll get like a tick talkermight take just clips like one
second even half second clips ofvery visually rich or beautiful
(17:34):
moments in the cooking process.
Put it all together and maybenarrate it, maybe not narrate
it, maybe just have On screentext give little bits of
instruction, maybe they'll justpop in with jokes or with funny
voices or whatever it is. Andhonestly you can get a whole
(17:58):
recipe in a tick tock video. In15 seconds. It's wild. I watched
one because I'm not on ticktock. I did go on watch some
compilation videos on YouTubeabout this. And there's one tick
talker in this one video. So hedid lasagna, he made lasagna and
presented the video in 40seconds. And this was homemade
(18:18):
lasagna, homemade sauce,homemade pasta, everything and
filmed each step and and thenput only a tiny little 1/3 of a
second clip. So I counted Islowed it down and then counted
the number. In 40 seconds. Thisguy used 97 different shots.
(18:41):
Everything chopping can openingstirring, sizzling. And what he
did was he used not only the thevisual of all of those things,
but a little tiny second of theaudio as well. And they timed it
so that the chopping can openingstirring, sizzling, created a
rhythm created a soundtrack sothat it was really cool. So it
(19:04):
had that beat for chopping andstirring and then it would have
moments where he would like letthe sizzling go on for like a
really long, one and a halfseconds and then go back to like
Chop Chop, chop, chop, chop. Ohmy god perfectly timed. And then
40 seconds later, you see buddyeating his gorgeous looking
(19:25):
lasagna made entirely fromscratch.
Christine Malec (19:28):
In videos that are popular origin cooking shows
what constitutes skill, what notjust the flashy, you know, he
made his pizza dough spin 15times without touching it. But
what constitutes genuine, holy,that's an accomplished chef.
JJ Hunt (19:49):
That's interesting. So there are a few things that like
home chefs do too. I don't knowif it's if it really makes them
skilled or accomplished but it'san indicates a way to show
people that not only are youcooking efficiently, but like
you know what you're doing. Oneis good knife skills, if you've
got solid knife skills that justgives the impression that you
(20:11):
know what you're doing. And somaybe it's about cutting an
onion by using just the tip ofthe knife in one direction, and
then turning the onion and usingthe whole knife in a rocking
action so that you are dicing,without, you know, cutting
individual little pieces ofonion, maybe it's something like
that, or it's holding whateveryou're cutting with your
(20:33):
knuckles, so that you can rockyour knife very, very quickly,
very close to the knuckles, andyou're not worried about
chopping off a fingertip. Sothere's some knife work that can
really look impressive. And likeI said, give the impression you
know what you're doing. Theother thing is the toss. If
you've got like a saucepan, or awalk or any kind of cooking
(20:55):
vessel that is relativelyshallow and has curved sides, so
not a straight sided pot, one ofthe best ways and it is
genuinely a good way to mix isby tossing what's in the pan.
And it's a very specifictechnique. So you essentially
you're holding the pan by thehandle, and you tip it away from
you, so that the food slidesaway from you. But then before
(21:18):
it slides out of the pan, youflick your wrist back, so that
the opposite side of the panthat the far end of the pan
flips the food back toward you.
And then you catch it in the panon the side that's closest to
your hand. And so I'm not tryingto sit home just very quick.
It's actually once you get thehang of it. Yeah, pretty easy.
It's just all it's about thatmuscle memory, you have to know
(21:40):
how much flick to get and youcan toss anything from like
noodles from spaghetti to youcan you can fold an omelet like
that just by flicking it halfwayso that the omelet starts to
slide out and then slides backon itself. If you've got good
pan flicking skills, again, itjust, it makes it look like like
(22:00):
you know, I've seen some cookswho like practice that but you
know, don't know how to boilwater, just so it looks like
they know what they're doing.
Yeah, it's effective.
Christine Malec (22:14):
Can we run through a flambé? It's I don't
know if this qualifies asflambé. But my very favorite
thing in this category isSaganaki. So when you're in a
Greek restaurant, and they bringout the slab of cheese, and then
something happens with I guessit's alcohol on a blowtorch or
whatever, but what's going onthere and how does the cheese
not get burnt to a cinder?
JJ Hunt (22:33):
Yeah, good question. So I mean, the flambé I think was
one of those things that wasdone a lot in formal French
service for a while, so you'd goto a restaurant and they would
do table sides, food prep, ortable side plating, things like
that. And then in lots ofdifferent cultures, you've got
the in Greek restaurants youhave shots that are on fire, you
(22:56):
have the like the flamingcheese, and there's different
ways to do it. But often again,it's it's a saucepan something
kind of shallow, with a slightlyrounded side not straight sided
pan. And then usually there's agas burner involved and you
know, you're making your foodyour chop, you chop up your your
fruit and you throw it in thepan, a little bit of sugar, a
(23:17):
little bit of water, whatever itis to kind of start to make some
kind of candying or some somekind of syrup. And then you
throw in a shot of alcohol.
Usually a like wine and beerdoesn't work you need something
with more alcohol so you uselike a rum or a brandy, a liquor
of some kind. And, again, thatsame tipping action that you
that you were that you usedbefore in the flipping, you tip
(23:39):
away from you so that the liquidthat's in the pan kind of goes
toward the far edge and you holdthat over your burner so that
the flames that are licking upthe side of the of the saucepan,
just touch the the alcohol inthe pan so you can do blow
(23:59):
torchy kind of things like tomake a creme caramelle you get a
little tiny blowtorch and youblow towards the top. But I
think for most flambés, if youhave a gas burner portable or in
the kitchen or whatever you tipit, the flame from the burner
goes up the side of the pan, andthen the whole pan everything in
the pan catches fire. But it'snot it's it's not like a
(24:21):
campfire. It's not like one ofthe wok cooking jets like it's
not this huge thick. You know,really dense flame. It's very
light. It's almost transparent.
It's a very, very muchtranslucent flame, a little bit
of blue in there, a little bitof orange in there, it can go
(24:41):
quite high, like the flamesmight be two feet high. But
unless the lights are dimmed,it's not super visible. In fact,
I've seen people burn themselvesbecause it's like, you know, it
goes on for a little while andthen all of the alcohol burns
off and you're just left withThe whatever liquid in syrup
that is in the pan, but as it'sburning down, it's getting
(25:04):
smaller and smaller and smaller,and it looks like it's gone.
Visually, if it's not so dark,you can't see the flame anymore.
But if you put your hand overit, you'll discover there's
still some flame left in there.
So some people willautomatically or just, you know,
by safety force of habit, theywill tamp it down, they'll put a
(25:24):
lid on it for a second or two,just to make sure the flame is
completely out, and then takethe lid off to to continue
cooking. So that's how a lot ofthat happens. And the reason
that things don't burn isbecause the out it's the alcohol
that's burning, and it's burningvery quickly. It doesn't last.
Okay, so again, if it was thesame, if it was the same amount
(25:45):
of time that a piece of cheesewas in a campfire, by by cheese.
That's right, that's right. It'sthe alcohol that's burning super
quickly. And you know, it's justevaporating it all off very,
very fast burning it off fast.
Christine Malec (26:04):
Let's talk about a subject close to my
heart, which is candy. Andhonestly, I don't even have
questions, you could just talkabout anything I'm interested
JJ Hunt (26:13):
in. Yeah, my youngest is very much a candy, a candy
lover, too. In our household.
I'm the cook. My wife, Lois isthe baker and our youngest is up
for both. But candy and bakingis his passion. And so he got
obsessed with watching candy,making videos. And then making
hard candy. This was a thingthat he really got into. And you
(26:37):
can see why the visually thecandy making is quite stunning
hard candies in particular,there's they fall into this
category of the of thesatisfying video, there's
something about the texture ofcandy as it's being made, the
consistency and the repetition,you need to be doing things with
(26:57):
with with this molten candy overand over and over again, in
order to achieve certain colorsand consistencies. And the you
know, yeah, it's reallyinteresting. So at its simplest,
you boil sugar and water andstir it, stir it, stir it, stir
it until it's smooth and silky,the consistency eventually gets
(27:21):
to the point where like theconsistency of warm honey. And
then you pour that onto a flatprobably stainless steel
surface. Like a big stainlesssteel table, if you're a
professional, you're using acooling table. So it's a big
stainless steel table, but it'scooled from below. So that helps
(27:43):
you know cool your can yourmolten candy much more quickly.
So very quickly, when you pourthis kind of warm honey
consistency.
You know the substance is moltencandy onto this table or take it
off the heat or if the table iscooled, it becomes stiffer. And
(28:06):
it gets it is like playing whenyou watch people you they're
folding it over onto itself. Andyou know picking it up and
putting it back on the table sothat new parts of the of this
you know Visca see blob getcooled. And to the right
temperature. It is a little bitlike watching people play with
(28:26):
lava. It's molten, and it's kindof somewhere between a solid and
a liquid. So it gets folded overand over it gets eventually
cooled down. And then it will itwill get to a consistency that
the candy maker needs to buildwith. So it'll be a blob that
will have you know finite edges,it doesn't pour like water on
(28:49):
the table. But if you pick up aclump, it will ooze out of your
hand drop back onto the blob andbecome one again like it's very,
it's in Cy it's like a littlebit soothing to watch. So then
the next thing that they need todo is pour in some coloring or
flavoring which they'll do kindof early on in this folding
(29:12):
process so that you can turn theyou know sugar and water into a
certain flavor peppermint orcoloring Enzo goes red or green
or whatever. But you can alsochange the color by by air
rating it so there are thesethings called candy hooks and
they look like like a Meat Hookand a meat locker. Big iron
(29:33):
hooks hanging off the wall alittle bit over head height. And
so what a candy maker will do istake this this cooled molten
candy so it can be picked upbecause it's cooled enough it's
not just like you know notwatery, and then they throw this
strip of molten candy over thehook and then it sags over the
(29:56):
side because of the weights andyou bundle it back up and you
fold it over the hook again. Andthen it sags. And you fold it
over the hook again, and itsags. And you do this over and
over and over like maybe 75times over and over. And what
you're doing is as it'sstretching, and, and then
folding it back over itself, andthen stretching and folding it
back over itself. Tiny littleair bubbles are getting into the
(30:20):
candy and changing its color. Soit will make the candy which
might have been kind of like acrystally golden color when it
was just sugar and water, maybeit becomes clean and white, but
opaque. That's reallyinteresting to watch this
process. And you can change youcan change how glossy it is you
(30:41):
can change how dull it is youcan change the color by doing
this. There are also machinesthat do a version of this that
especially they're used fortaffy, I think you can use it
for either candy or taffy. Butthe Taffy pulling machine is
awesome. It's it's a machinethat automates this concept
automates this polling unfoldingover and over and over again.
(31:04):
And the way it does it with iswith four bars that move around
each other so that when you putthe Moulton candy across it, it
automatically folds andstretches folds and stretches.
So this isn't exactly accurate.
But it's kind of close. If youmake a like a peace sign with
your index and middle finger onboth hands. So you got two V's
(31:26):
index and middle finger bothhands, and then put them flat in
front of you pointing at eachother. And then interlace your
fingers without touching. Soyou've got index finger on one
hand, index finger on the othermiddle finger on one hand,
middle finger on the other, andthen make tiny circles away from
you and back toward you so thatyour fingertips are circling
(31:51):
each other, but they're neverquite touching. That's not
dissimilar. It's not exactlyright. But it's not dissimilar
to the way these machines work.
So then if you can imagine ifyou've got molten candy draped
over four bars, like yourfingers, as they rotate around
(32:13):
each other, the molten candy orthe Taffy will get pulled and
stretched and folded over itselfover and over and over again.
It's totally mesmerizing, it'sreally soothing to watch because
it's it's repetitive. But eachfold and stretch is unique.
(32:34):
Right? Every time it happens,it's a little bit thicker, a
little bit thinner, that coloris slowly changing. The silky
smooth texture is really creamyand appetizing. It's super
calming, it's really calming.
And then the candy maker takeswhatever molten candy has been
stretched and pulled and it'sgot to the right color. It's the
(32:55):
right consistency, it's glossyexactly the way they want it,
they take it back to the table.
And then they start layeringwith different colors to create
different patterns. So thepatterns at first look really,
really blocky and crude. But thecandy makers know that they're
going to further roll andstretch and twist that candy so
(33:19):
that the blocky patterns thatthey built in at the beginning
will eventually become verydelicate. So like let's take the
simplest like a candy cane. Sothe candy maker takes to the
table, a block of white and ablock of red. And they create a
pattern of stripes. You know,two inch by two inch stripes,
(33:42):
maybe a foot long, one after theother, maybe some are a little
bit thinner. Some are a littlebit wider, but you know
basically creating a stripedsheet two inches thick of red
and white pattern. And then theytake a thick roll of white candy
that's like really like thediameter of your bicep, like a
big big lump of of white candy.
And they put that into themiddle of this sheet of striped
(34:04):
red and white. And then theyroll that into a tube so that
you've got the white in themiddle, the striped red and
white are on the outside. Andthen they roll that back and
forth back and forth. Kind oflike did you ever like make
snakes with playdough orplasticine as a kid where you
just roll it in your hand anduntil it gets longer and
(34:25):
thinner, longer and thinner.
Yes, that's what they do withthis is just back and forth,
back and forth. And as that tubegets thinner and longer, they
then stretch it out thinner andthinner and thinner until that
big big lump is now as thick asyour finger. It's really thin.
(34:45):
And then those stripes of coursethey're super thin too but
they're still very distinct.
They're clean and distinct. Theythe colors haven't melted.
They're still a very distinctand then they can take that
they'll chop it into secondshins, so you've got like, it's
now as you know, thick as yourfinger, you chop it into what,
six or eight inch section. Andthen they roll them in a very
(35:06):
particular way to get a spin toget a spiral. So you know, you
roll a little bit, instead ofjust going back and forth with
parallel, they'll roll it sothat one hand goes ahead the
other, the other one pulls backa little bit, whatever, there's
a very special technique totwist. And so now all of those
parallel lines have twisted intothat spirally candy cane
(35:28):
pattern, you bend to hook shapeinto the top, you'll let it
cool. And now you've got a candycane. And they can do that with
all kinds of things. So that'sthe simplest version, they can
do the exact same thing, butlayer in different colors. Listo
as they're building this likelump that they know they're
going to roll out they can layerin different colors. And then
(35:50):
when they're rolling it andstretching it what becomes
apparent is all of those colorsand patterns that they've
layered on inside becomepictures on the end so they know
when you cut off the tips ofthis long, you know to cut it
off. On the end, you might havea picture of you know, a pattern
(36:11):
like a bow or a hat or maybe acharacter's face. little panda
faces cartoon characters. Yeah,these little tiny, tiny, tiny
hard candies and one of thesebig lumps will make hundreds
hundreds 1000s of these tinylittle, you know, like half
third of a pinky sized candiesin the end, all with little
(36:36):
designs inside.
Christine Malec (36:39):
That's so cute! We love making this podcast. If
you love hearing it, perhapsyou'll consider supporting its
creation and development bybecoming a patron. We've set up
a Patreon page to help cover thecosts of putting the show
together. You can contribute asa listener or as a sponsor to
help ensure that accessible andentertaining journalism
(36:59):
continues to reach ourcommunity. Visit
patreon.com/talk Description Tome that's pa t ar e o n.com/talk
description to me have feedbackor suggestions of what you'd
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