August 6, 2022 • 30 mins
Spy movies are perfect for Audio Description. There are subtle clues to describe, exotic and seedy locations to expound on, and often great visual storytelling for the Describer to work with. But what about those moments that whip by too fast for the AD Narrator? Today, Christine and JJ break down the visuals of spy movie tropes: gadgets, lairs, disguises, hacking, and tracking.
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Episode Transcript
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JJ Hunt (00:03):
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
Several episodes ago, we talked about
movie posters. And that was aclassic example where I didn't
know what I didn't know. And JJwas surprised by some of the
things that I didn't know. Andit kind of led to talking more
specifically about differenttypes of tropes in cinema. And
so in general terms, I would saythat a trope is kind of like an
(01:09):
artistic cliche, that getsreused, because everyone
understands what you mean by itat it, and it conveys a certain
vibe. And so what we're going totalk about today is kind of
specific. It's spy movie tropes.
And so this covers, films, youknow, like the giant James Bond
enterprise, or Jason Bourne arethose kind of John lecarre. A,
(01:31):
that the classic spy movies? Andhere was a classic example of
what I didn't know. And okay,it's not a genre that you know,
that I follow closely. But Ithink when you're watching it
with audio description, II,there's a ton of stuff they
can't explain just becausethere's no time. So there might
be, you know, she breaks intothe apartment, well, how does
(01:56):
that happen? Or he hacks intothe computer system and what
what does that actually looklike? And so, there's so much to
break down here that, Judy,where do you think we should
start? Because there's, there'sjust a lot and I like I said,
I'm ignorant, so I'm not reallysure. Maybe we can start
actually, maybe we can startwith the lair? The evil lair,
(02:16):
James Bond is a good place tostart here. And I'm just going
to tell a little anecdotebecause this is why I'm not
interested in spy movies. Ithought, okay, James Bond is so
popular. It's great, everyone,you know, it must be worth
something. So I think I pickedthe first James Bond movie,
we're like, this won't be tooviolent. It'll be a good
introduction. There's a scenewhere he walks into his hotel
room, big suspense moment, he'speering around, there's
(02:39):
something big is obviously goingto happen. He spies have a
picture on the wall, he goes andmoves it. And there's a camera,
they're like, Wow, that was alot of build up for something
that's pretty lame nowadays. AndI went, I just not invested
here. I'm not gonna. So thisstuff must change a lot to
write.
JJ Hunt (03:01):
Oh, yeah, the Bond stuff. I mean, the bonds been
going on for so long. And it'sfunny, a lot of our trips that
we have now can date back tothese early Bond movies. The
idea of the sexy spy, you know,a spy that uses their sexuality
to, to, you know, to get ahead.
All of those types of things,the gadgets, all the bond loved
(03:23):
the gadgets, not the first oneto use them, but like really
solidified a lot of these thingsas the Canon as tropes in this
spy genre, but yeah, the layers,the bond layers, not all spy
movies, like I don't think JasonBourne ever visited a layer. But
certainly within the Bondfranchise, the idea of the layer
(03:44):
is massively influential. Sothese layers in Bond films, one
of the things that makes themdistinctive, it from a design
point of view is the fact thatthey are modernist in design. So
these are modernist or brutalistspaces, open spaces, steel and
concrete construction, veryclean lines, very smooth, not a
(04:07):
lot of ornamentation, very cold,very officious. There were
elements of nature that arebuilt into modernist design, but
they're usually they'recontained elements of nature to
the very mid century idea. Andso that aesthetic is kind of now
very, very strongly associatedwith Bond villains. So like a
(04:28):
couple of examples in Dr. know,there's this Crab Key layer and
this layer is basically a luxuryspa with poured concrete walls,
copper plated doors, there's agiant aquarium that's carved out
of a stone wall and and a hugenuclear reactor room with
exposed catwalks that supportthey're supported by like the
(04:52):
square Angular columns inGoldfinger, Goldfinger has a
modernist farmhouse. It's got aglossy plank wood walls and a
slanted ceiling. There's ahidden control console and a
monumental fireplace with astainless steel hood and a
retractable floor. So you've gotsome of the you know, the
(05:15):
retract ability and the hiddencontrol console. But you've got,
you've got some naturalmaterials like the plank woods
that slanted ceiling, Angular,Angular, Angular. And then of
course, I think the most famousof the layers is Blofeld is
volcano lair from You Only LiveTwice. This is just an enormous
cavernous space. from floor toceiling. The actual set was over
(05:40):
10 storeys tall, I mean,enormous. The interior has false
rock walls with concretebuttresses and a concrete floor
again, a retractable roof. Itactually was big enough that it
had a working monorail in thereat the actual helicopter landing
pad, and a full scale stainlesssteel rocket on a launch pad. So
(06:02):
again, like lots of these, likethe steel and concrete
construction, open spaces,Angular, Angular Angular, it's
not really a spy movie more of athriller. But the this killer
layer in Ex Machina, have youseen Ex Machina? No, no, really
the good film, most of that filmtakes place in a very remote,
(06:25):
ultra modern layer that's ownedby this genius, perhaps evil
billionaire, so not really a spymovie, but a lair that is very
much in the James Bond mold.
Christine Malec (06:39):
And spies get the best tech even back to
Maxwell Smart's shoe phone.
JJ Hunt (06:46):
That's right! The Shoe Telephone. I loved that shoe
telephone.
Christine Malec (06:51):
It will never never die. I don't know if maybe
it's because we're too old. Butthat that trope just will never
die
JJ Hunt (06:55):
It's so fantastic. I mean, I think the first time it
was used, he's in a movie in atheater, he sings a piece of
theater a plays going on, andthis phone rings and it's like
an old fashioned phone ringinglike it's not like a subtle is
Greg Ring, ring, ring ring. Andso excuse me and he gets up and
walks away, goes into a closetor something like that takes off
his black leather loafer pullsthe soul off and the entire
(07:20):
bottom of the shoe is atelephone. It's got a little
like a little the dial thing notthe punch buttons, the rotary
rotary earpiece, it's huge. It'sjust huge. The funny thing about
this is I did some descriptionwork for the International Spy
Museum in Washington a few yearsback. Oh, and they actually have
(07:43):
a shoe from the 1960s that has akitten microphone and
transmitter, like tucked intothe heel of a brown leather
loafer. So there are versions ofthis tech that actually did get
used in the spy world. It was soabsurd.
Christine Malec (08:02):
Wow. Are there some other classics of tech I
guess James Bond again is theone to mine for that.
JJ Hunt (08:10):
James Bond and the watches. I think that like that
in terms of like the James Bondwatch gadgets are in in the
Roger Moore eras is that's whenthey really went. They went
crazy with this idea. So RogerMoore had watches with magnetic
field generators, buzz saws,teletype machines, dark guns,
explosives, two way radiostracking devices, even a TV I
(08:34):
mean that one seemed a littlefar fetched. I mean, a TV and a
watch. Come on. That's absurd.
Christine Malec (08:40):
Unlike everything else.
JJ Hunt (08:41):
Ha! The teletype machine it's a digital Seiko
looks like a stainless steelwatch. Little digital face and
then coming out of the top of itis a very very thin, white like
ribbon of paper with you knowteletype printing on it like be
(09:02):
aware it'll blow so hilarious.
The buzzsaw watches the otherone I like it's a it's an analog
watch. I think it's a Rolex andright around the outside edge of
the of the round watch face arevery very tiny but clearly sharp
saw teeth that you can start thethe watch is spinning and all
(09:24):
around you know this is likewhat half an inch a quarter of
an inch above your wrist. Thislittle busta buzzsaw starts
spinning,
Christine Malec (09:34):
Right? I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
JJ Hunt (09:36):
What could go wrong? So funny. Mission Impossible uses a
lot of good gadgets to I can'tremember which one of the
Mission Impossible films it wasthey use a flute gun. So this is
a silver flute again, there'slike a the scene takes place.
There's an orchestra and TomCruise gets his hand on a flute
gun. So looks like a silverflute with all the keys on it
(09:58):
and it's got to build in scope,and it costs like a pump action
shotgun. And then the wholeflute gets used like a rifle.
But from the outside, it lookslike silver flute. So bizarre,
then there's the the climbinggloves is another great Mission
Impossible gadget. So theseclimbing gloves are a take on
(10:19):
the classic suction cup glove,where, you know, if you want to
climb on the outside of abuilding, you basically have
gloves with suction cups on thepalms and your pop, pop, oh,
work your way up a building.
This is a digital version ofthat these are black gloves that
go up to the elbow, and theyhave electric blue trim along
every finger. And then on theback of the hand, there's a
(10:41):
digital display to let you knowthat the gloves are working. So
if the gloves are working,you've got like three lines like
a like a Wi Fi signal, the threelines in this like electric blue
color to tell you that you'rethere working. But then if it's
not working, those three linesgo to red if it runs out of
batteries. And that little bitof visual display is there. So
(11:03):
not only does the character knowif they're working or not, but
the audience knows that they'reworking. So when the character
slaps their palm against theglass, as long as it lights up
blue, you know that it'ssticking, if it doesn't light up
blue, then there's this soundeffect that's associated with so
you slap your hand against thewall that lights up blue, and
(11:24):
there's that high pitchedcharging noise, then you know
that it's working, it's suckingthe hands against the wall. If
it turns red, you don't get thesound effect. And it's not
working. But without thatwithout those little bits of
visual, you know details, thenit's just a scene with Tom
Cruise slapping is like elegantgloves against the glass wall,
(11:45):
the whole scene falls apart.
Without those tiny littledetails is so key. Jason Bourne,
the Bourne films, he was quiteanti gadget, mostly what he uses
in his spy work are theireveryday objects, right, like
pencils, he stabs people withpencils, he beats people with
(12:05):
books. But what he did have wasis a really great monocular. So
it's like a very small, like thesize of a pocket flashlight fits
in the palm of your hand. Andand that he uses to like, you
know, you know the scan, scanthe scene or see someone far
away, that's about the onlygadget otherwise, it's like drop
(12:27):
phones and whatever's lyingaround that he can weaponize.
Christine Malec (12:31):
Um, let's talk a bit about cinematography and
starting maybe specifically withviewpoint because I'm assuming
that given the genre, there'slots of camera shots that
involve looking at someone whodoesn't know you're looking at
them from a distance. Is thatright?
JJ Hunt (12:46):
Yeah. So you do get a lot of those either first person
or often first person seenthrough some kind of device. So
you'll get either first personseen through, like a security
camera, right? So what is thesecurity camera picking up?
That's what's put on screen?
What's the point of view throughthe monocular? That's what's on
the screen, or did you know lotsof kinds of digital binoculars
(13:08):
and whatnot. So when that's thecase, the image quality changes.
So if it goes to like a closedcircuit TV camera, the image
goes to this very grainy, blackand white. If you're looking
through a digital binoculars,for example, it'll often go
green. So this is night vision.
(13:29):
So everything is presented ingreen light. So you get those
kinds of First Person thingsthat are happening. It's really
interesting. I mean, thecinematography and spy movies
is, it's very well establishedhow a lot of these scenes play
out the Jason Bourne films,really, they kind of shifted the
(13:49):
way these spy movies are, wereturned into action movies, and
the speed with which they werepresented. The editing is very,
very fast in these films. Butspy movies in general, work
really well on film. Because,first of all, film does subtlety
(14:11):
very well. And spy stories arefull of subtle moments. Right?
Novels are great for subtletyTVs, okay, theater is very
tricky. You don't like what waslast time you saw a good spy
play doesn't really work. Filmis perfect, because spine
stories are are filled withsmall moments, right? Like the
drama of using a dead drop, orfollowing someone or exchanging
(14:35):
glances. The way you cut fromone person to another. You can
do on film in a way that youcan't do on theatre. You can
direct the audience using youredits using your shot sequences.
So spy stories often requirereally good visual storytelling.
Because like you said, you'rewatching someone watched someone
(14:58):
else and So you need to, as adirector, get the audience to
follow those moments who'slooking at who How does that
make them respond or react. It'sa, the sequencing of your shots
is really important. So spystories require, I mean, they
(15:18):
can be a really interesting andvery cool challenge for a
describer. But if thestorytelling is strong, and the
description is well done, Ithink spy movies are brilliant
when they're described, becausethere's often a very linear path
through the scenes that arepacked with spy craft. And it's
a really great way to kind of,you're laying out all these
(15:41):
bread crumbs to put a scenetogether. And plus the sound
design in spy movies isfantastic, great for building
tension and so forth. I reallylike spy movies as described
films.
Christine Malec (15:52):
Yeah, I can see how storytelling becomes super
important because as thedescriber, as you say, it's a
trail of breadcrumbs and an anunobservant sighted viewer could
miss stuff just because they'renot observant and they miss
clues but as a describer. It'skind of your job to to draw a
subtle attention to that. I'mwondering about the use of
(16:16):
disguise and can we start with atrench coat? Am I right that
that's a classic of spy movies,can we just describe a trench
coat?
JJ Hunt (16:23):
Totally that oh, that trench coat so long. Usually,
the classic trench coat was awas like a beige color, you
know, all the way down topossibly the ankles, certainly
to mid calf often belted aroundthe waist, big wide lapels,
sometimes some pocket, sometimessome flaps on the shoulder. But
(16:43):
the great thing about a trenchcoat is you can pop the you can
pop the collar up, you can popthe lapel up, so it hides your
face, you pull your Fedora downlow, and now your quote unquote
hidden. I mean, the problem withthe trench coat is itself became
such a trope that it's like, Oh,you want to look for the spy
look for the guy dressed like aspy, right? This is where
(17:05):
disguise is really interestingbecause with disguises in real
life and in movies like TheBourne films. What you want to
do if you're wearing a disguiseis blend in. That's for the most
part. That's unless you'retalking about a specific trying
to look like a specific person.
When you're disguised, you'rejust trying to not be you you're
trying to blend in. So born isvery good at this born wears
(17:25):
normal clothes, dull colors.
Often a basic like baseball hat,no team logo or anything on it
just a blank baseball cap,nothing that's easy to identify.
And that way, Jason Bourne canmove around in whatever
environment he needs to becausehe blends right in. And then if
(17:48):
you need to escape, you ditchthe you ditch the hat and you
ditch the jacket. And then youcan blend in again, it's amazing
how shockingly effective this isvisual, like, both in these
films. And in real life. Ifyou've been identified as a guy
in a red hat in a blue jacket,and then you remove that Red Hat
(18:09):
and blue jacket, you can easilyslip past people who are
scanning a room or a video feedlooking for someone in a red hat
and blue jacket, because that'snot who you are anymore. And in
that moment, you can get awayand and I got to say as a parent
who has scanned crowds for kids,it's really effective. If you've
(18:30):
got a dog you put it like a youknow we always put very
distinctive like sun hats onthem if we were going to a beach
or a park or something likethat. Because then in the crowd,
all you look for is that hat,you're not looking for your kid,
you're looking for that hat andthen you can find but if they
take that hat off, you're lostbecause that's that's what
you've that's what you'reanchored on to.
Christine Malec (18:50):
What is a balaclava?
JJ Hunt (18:53):
Ah, okay, so a balaclava is like, like a woolly
hat material like a to cutmaterial and knit hat, usually
black, but instead of justsitting on top of the head, kind
of over the ears and across theforehead, it pulls all the way
down, and it covers the entireface. And there's usually a hole
cut out for each eye, and then ahole cut out for the mouth. And
(19:14):
that's it. It goes right overthe nose. It covers the entire
rest of the face. So a balaclavais often used in in scenes
where, you know, you're robbinga bank or something like that
you pull one of these things on,you can still speak you can
still see through them. But buteverything else is covered by
this usually black knit hat.
Christine Malec (19:34):
How about an evidence board? This was a
phrase you used in a differentcontext, and I just had nothing
I'd never even heard of it.
JJ Hunt (19:40):
Yeah, the evidence board is a classic. A lot of
like CIA analysts or you know,crime scene, investigators will
use the evidence board. So it'sgenerally except sometimes it's
a white board or something. Butusually the classic is the cork
board. And you put up pieces ofevidence like photographs. and
maps and maybe even like anevidence baggie, which I don't
(20:04):
think you would actually reallydo in a crime scene, but they
appear in these in movies andwhatnot. And then all of these
individual pieces of evidenceare linked together with string.
So you tie like a picture of aperson to a map that's got a
bunch of, you know, stickers orpins in it to identify places,
(20:27):
and you link that to a string,and then tie that to another
person's mug shot, and then tiethat to a piece of Evet,
whatever. And that's aconnection. And then you do that
somewhere else, where you takeanother photograph, and you take
some kind of photo that's beentaken in a crowd situation like,
and then you, you link thoseones. And you tie that to
(20:48):
another piece of evidence. Andthat's how you build a web of,
of evidence to link acomplicated set of characters
and pieces of evidence. And thisis usually presented when either
a person or an investigator or aspy, or someone is brilliant,
and is able to deduce all ofthese things and hold all of
(21:11):
these things in their mind allat once. Or sometimes it's kind
of the opposite, where aperson's gone over the edge.
And, and they're in therechasing conspiracy theories, and
they're in there finding links,where there really aren't any.
So it can be used to convey bothof those things. But visually,
it is, it is an absolute tropethat, you know, these all of
(21:35):
these different things. And ifyou zoom in on them, it's funny,
a lot of the, like, folks who dobreak down videos on YouTube and
whatnot, I know for that, likethere was a Batman, there was an
evidence board and the mostrecent Batman film, and if there
was a quick shot of it in thebackground of a trailer, and and
all of the YouTubers who areinto breaking down these
(21:57):
trailers, they focused in onthat, because they were able to
deduce things about the how thefilm was going to unfold, based
on what was included in thisevidence board and like a half
second shot in the trailer.
Yeah, there's a ton ofinformation packed in there.
Christine Malec (22:14):
Is there still a place for maps in spy films?
JJ Hunt (22:19):
Yeah, there is. I mean, I think in part because it's,
um, they're, they're greatvisual aids, they're great
tactile things, right. So youcan put a map on an evidence
board, and you can, you know,track things from point A to
point B, often as like, assomeone like Jason Bourne will
be in a new place that they'venever been before. They'll grab
(22:41):
a map, or they'll even pull up,there's, I think it's the very
first one, he's escaping theembassy, and he rips the map off
of the wall of a building, likeyou are here kind of map, rips
that off so that he can figureout his escape route through the
building. So there's no, that'sgood, both for the characters,
it's good within the story. Butit's also a good bit of visual
(23:02):
to tell the audience what'sgoing to happen. If you see a
character with a map, and youmight get a sense of the
landscape, you might get a senseof what the building looks like,
even though you're only seeing ashot of one hallway. Now you get
a shot of this map, and you'relike, oh, there's an exit.
There's a staircase that leadsup to you know, what I mean?
This is a great way to convey alot of information to, to folks
(23:26):
who are watching the film very,very closely.
Christine Malec (23:31):
And how would a character break in to something
how is that achieved?
JJ Hunt (23:36):
The classic with the lock picks, you often hear he
picks the lock. Yeah, usuallylock picking tools. Let's see,
there's usually one piece ofvery, very thin metal that goes
in and it's there to, to slowlypush the keys on the inside, I
(23:57):
can't remember the name of thethe gadgets on the inside, but
it slips in and it very slowly,jiggles the, whatever the
mechanism on the inside, andthen there's a second piece of
metal that you slide in besidethat, and you move it up and
down. So you generally alockpick as a lockpick set has
two items, very thin pieces ofmetal, one that is slowly
(24:18):
pushing in and the other onethat is kind of jiggling up and
down so that you can get thelittle I can't remember the name
of the little toggles orwhatever on the inside, to move
up and down in the same way thatthe pattern on a key would get
them to move. So usually it'stwo handed work with with if
it's done remotely accurately,with one object slowly being
(24:42):
pushed in and the other onebeing slowly jiggled up and
down. That's kind of the waythat's pick but a lot of that
stuff now is done on computers,but the computer has to do it
you have to break into a roomI'll get you access and whoever
it is on the computer side ofthings. That's some of my
favorite the visuals of thecomputers. In, in spy movies,
(25:02):
the stuff that's popping up onscreen is often ridiculous. It's
not like hacking, see, I'm goingto break into the building. And
then you know, they do whateveron the computer. And you know
that in real life, the back endsof programming is not visually
interesting. It's not designed.
But in films, all of that stuffis designed. It's designed to
(25:26):
look pretty, and it's designedto look clean and clear.
Christine Malec (25:33):
So is it graphics, then?
JJ Hunt (25:35):
A lot of graphics, custom graphics.
Christine Malec (25:37):
Totally unrealalistic.
JJ Hunt (25:39):
Absolutely unrealistic.
So a sighted audience member isgoing to know what's happening
based on the visuals of what'sgoing on on the screen, instead
of just looking at someonetyping very quickly and a bunch
of numbers flying by theirscreen, and then they say I'm in
because that's boring. So thevisuals try and make that more.
(25:59):
So sometimes a hacker will breakinto a system. And there's a
literal 3D map that the hackerzooms through. Like it's a
labyrinth of glowing green, orblue walls and paths, like
you're entering the matrix.
Christine Malec (26:15):
Right, right.
JJ Hunt (26:15):
It's ridiculous. That doesn't happen as much anymore.
I think that doesn't read asrealistic to too many people.
The other thing that happens alot are these big labels. Like
if you know, if they hit a wallsomewhere in the computer, a big
label, again, with full graphicsand nice border really like a
very distinctive font will sayunauthorized file transfer or
(26:36):
something like that. I don'tknow if that's actually how that
works. In real, I've neverreally tried to steal a file
from the CIA.
Christine Malec (26:43):
Come on... heh heh.
JJ Hunt (26:43):
So I don't really know if that's how that looks.
Heh heh. The otherthing I love are file names that
Christine Malec (26:45):
Not that you'd admit to.
are really easy to catch at aglance. So if someone is hacking
into a system, and they'rescrolling through the audience
should have, there should besome possibility that an
audience member can read ahandful of these file names and
(27:05):
see what's important. So youknow, someone will be scrolling
through a list of file names,and a lot of them will be
labeled CIA, like CIAoperatives, 2019.
JJ Hunt (27:14):
"Oh, that's the file I want! I don't know... And then
Christine Malec (27:14):
Right! Ha ha ha.
the file counters or theprogress bars, so things are
being transferred onto a memorystick. There's lots of that
right. Someone breaks in, youput a memory stick and you get
Right, right, right.
into the computer. Yes, thereare always progress bars on
everyone's laptop. But again,some of these progress bars are
huge, or the digital countdownof how many files or folders
(27:36):
have been moved from the desktopto the to the memory stick, or
it's like it takes up a quarterof the screen and has a sound
effect. Boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop, boop, boop,
JJ Hunt (27:47):
Never happens. That never happens. The other tech
thing on screens that I reallylove, it's quite hilarious is
it's sometimes referred to as"Enhanced that!" because that's
a phrase that you'll hear a lot.
So say Jason Bourne is walkingthrough a crowded train station.
And in the CIA control roomthey're watching on their
security monitors, right,they've hacked into the security
(28:10):
monitors of the train station,the security cameras, the train
station they're watching and youknow, from 100 feet away, the
camera spots some like somethingsuspicious, and this black and
white security camera, Tommy LeeJones yells enhance that, and
someone presses a single button,and a perfect picture of Jason
Bourne resolves on the screen.
(28:37):
There's no such enhance button.
There are ways to enhancedigital images.
Christine Malec (28:43):
Right, right.
JJ Hunt (28:43):
Certainly, there are ways to to make an image cleaner
or crisper or sharpened orwhatever. But there's not a
single button you can press thatwill turn a piece of CCTV
footage that was filmed 100 feetaway into a like a headshot with
the press of a button. But welove that stuff. "Enhance that!"
Christine Malec (29:08):
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on Twitter at talk description
Talk description to me with Christine Malec and JJ
Hunt.
Christine Malec (00:27):
Hi, I'm Christine Malec.
JJ Hunt (00:28):
And I'm JJ Hunt. This is talk description to me, where
the visuals of current eventsand the world around us get
hashed out in description richconversations.
Christine Malec (00:47):
Several episodes ago, we talked about
movie posters. And that was aclassic example where I didn't
know what I didn't know. And JJwas surprised by some of the
things that I didn't know. Andit kind of led to talking more
specifically about differenttypes of tropes in cinema. And
so in general terms, I would saythat a trope is kind of like an
(01:09):
artistic cliche, that getsreused, because everyone
understands what you mean by itat it, and it conveys a certain
vibe. And so what we're going totalk about today is kind of
specific. It's spy movie tropes.
And so this covers, films, youknow, like the giant James Bond
enterprise, or Jason Bourne arethose kind of John lecarre. A,
(01:31):
that the classic spy movies? Andhere was a classic example of
what I didn't know. And okay,it's not a genre that you know,
that I follow closely. But Ithink when you're watching it
with audio description, II,there's a ton of stuff they
can't explain just becausethere's no time. So there might
be, you know, she breaks intothe apartment, well, how does
(01:56):
that happen? Or he hacks intothe computer system and what
what does that actually looklike? And so, there's so much to
break down here that, Judy,where do you think we should
start? Because there's, there'sjust a lot and I like I said,
I'm ignorant, so I'm not reallysure. Maybe we can start
actually, maybe we can startwith the lair? The evil lair,
(02:16):
James Bond is a good place tostart here. And I'm just going
to tell a little anecdotebecause this is why I'm not
interested in spy movies. Ithought, okay, James Bond is so
popular. It's great, everyone,you know, it must be worth
something. So I think I pickedthe first James Bond movie,
we're like, this won't be tooviolent. It'll be a good
introduction. There's a scenewhere he walks into his hotel
room, big suspense moment, he'speering around, there's
(02:39):
something big is obviously goingto happen. He spies have a
picture on the wall, he goes andmoves it. And there's a camera,
they're like, Wow, that was alot of build up for something
that's pretty lame nowadays. AndI went, I just not invested
here. I'm not gonna. So thisstuff must change a lot to
write.
JJ Hunt (03:01):
Oh, yeah, the Bond stuff. I mean, the bonds been
going on for so long. And it'sfunny, a lot of our trips that
we have now can date back tothese early Bond movies. The
idea of the sexy spy, you know,a spy that uses their sexuality
to, to, you know, to get ahead.
All of those types of things,the gadgets, all the bond loved
(03:23):
the gadgets, not the first oneto use them, but like really
solidified a lot of these thingsas the Canon as tropes in this
spy genre, but yeah, the layers,the bond layers, not all spy
movies, like I don't think JasonBourne ever visited a layer. But
certainly within the Bondfranchise, the idea of the layer
(03:44):
is massively influential. Sothese layers in Bond films, one
of the things that makes themdistinctive, it from a design
point of view is the fact thatthey are modernist in design. So
these are modernist or brutalistspaces, open spaces, steel and
concrete construction, veryclean lines, very smooth, not a
(04:07):
lot of ornamentation, very cold,very officious. There were
elements of nature that arebuilt into modernist design, but
they're usually they'recontained elements of nature to
the very mid century idea. Andso that aesthetic is kind of now
very, very strongly associatedwith Bond villains. So like a
(04:28):
couple of examples in Dr. know,there's this Crab Key layer and
this layer is basically a luxuryspa with poured concrete walls,
copper plated doors, there's agiant aquarium that's carved out
of a stone wall and and a hugenuclear reactor room with
exposed catwalks that supportthey're supported by like the
(04:52):
square Angular columns inGoldfinger, Goldfinger has a
modernist farmhouse. It's got aglossy plank wood walls and a
slanted ceiling. There's ahidden control console and a
monumental fireplace with astainless steel hood and a
retractable floor. So you've gotsome of the you know, the
(05:15):
retract ability and the hiddencontrol console. But you've got,
you've got some naturalmaterials like the plank woods
that slanted ceiling, Angular,Angular, Angular. And then of
course, I think the most famousof the layers is Blofeld is
volcano lair from You Only LiveTwice. This is just an enormous
cavernous space. from floor toceiling. The actual set was over
(05:40):
10 storeys tall, I mean,enormous. The interior has false
rock walls with concretebuttresses and a concrete floor
again, a retractable roof. Itactually was big enough that it
had a working monorail in thereat the actual helicopter landing
pad, and a full scale stainlesssteel rocket on a launch pad. So
(06:02):
again, like lots of these, likethe steel and concrete
construction, open spaces,Angular, Angular Angular, it's
not really a spy movie more of athriller. But the this killer
layer in Ex Machina, have youseen Ex Machina? No, no, really
the good film, most of that filmtakes place in a very remote,
(06:25):
ultra modern layer that's ownedby this genius, perhaps evil
billionaire, so not really a spymovie, but a lair that is very
much in the James Bond mold.
Christine Malec (06:39):
And spies get the best tech even back to
Maxwell Smart's shoe phone.
JJ Hunt (06:46):
That's right! The Shoe Telephone. I loved that shoe
telephone.
Christine Malec (06:51):
It will never never die. I don't know if maybe
it's because we're too old. Butthat that trope just will never
die
JJ Hunt (06:55):
It's so fantastic. I mean, I think the first time it
was used, he's in a movie in atheater, he sings a piece of
theater a plays going on, andthis phone rings and it's like
an old fashioned phone ringinglike it's not like a subtle is
Greg Ring, ring, ring ring. Andso excuse me and he gets up and
walks away, goes into a closetor something like that takes off
his black leather loafer pullsthe soul off and the entire
(07:20):
bottom of the shoe is atelephone. It's got a little
like a little the dial thing notthe punch buttons, the rotary
rotary earpiece, it's huge. It'sjust huge. The funny thing about
this is I did some descriptionwork for the International Spy
Museum in Washington a few yearsback. Oh, and they actually have
(07:43):
a shoe from the 1960s that has akitten microphone and
transmitter, like tucked intothe heel of a brown leather
loafer. So there are versions ofthis tech that actually did get
used in the spy world. It was soabsurd.
Christine Malec (08:02):
Wow. Are there some other classics of tech I
guess James Bond again is theone to mine for that.
JJ Hunt (08:10):
James Bond and the watches. I think that like that
in terms of like the James Bondwatch gadgets are in in the
Roger Moore eras is that's whenthey really went. They went
crazy with this idea. So RogerMoore had watches with magnetic
field generators, buzz saws,teletype machines, dark guns,
explosives, two way radiostracking devices, even a TV I
(08:34):
mean that one seemed a littlefar fetched. I mean, a TV and a
watch. Come on. That's absurd.
Christine Malec (08:40):
Unlike everything else.
JJ Hunt (08:41):
Ha! The teletype machine it's a digital Seiko
looks like a stainless steelwatch. Little digital face and
then coming out of the top of itis a very very thin, white like
ribbon of paper with you knowteletype printing on it like be
(09:02):
aware it'll blow so hilarious.
The buzzsaw watches the otherone I like it's a it's an analog
watch. I think it's a Rolex andright around the outside edge of
the of the round watch face arevery very tiny but clearly sharp
saw teeth that you can start thethe watch is spinning and all
(09:24):
around you know this is likewhat half an inch a quarter of
an inch above your wrist. Thislittle busta buzzsaw starts
spinning,
Christine Malec (09:34):
Right? I mean, what could possibly go wrong?
JJ Hunt (09:36):
What could go wrong? So funny. Mission Impossible uses a
lot of good gadgets to I can'tremember which one of the
Mission Impossible films it wasthey use a flute gun. So this is
a silver flute again, there'slike a the scene takes place.
There's an orchestra and TomCruise gets his hand on a flute
gun. So looks like a silverflute with all the keys on it
(09:58):
and it's got to build in scope,and it costs like a pump action
shotgun. And then the wholeflute gets used like a rifle.
But from the outside, it lookslike silver flute. So bizarre,
then there's the the climbinggloves is another great Mission
Impossible gadget. So theseclimbing gloves are a take on
(10:19):
the classic suction cup glove,where, you know, if you want to
climb on the outside of abuilding, you basically have
gloves with suction cups on thepalms and your pop, pop, oh,
work your way up a building.
This is a digital version ofthat these are black gloves that
go up to the elbow, and theyhave electric blue trim along
every finger. And then on theback of the hand, there's a
(10:41):
digital display to let you knowthat the gloves are working. So
if the gloves are working,you've got like three lines like
a like a Wi Fi signal, the threelines in this like electric blue
color to tell you that you'rethere working. But then if it's
not working, those three linesgo to red if it runs out of
batteries. And that little bitof visual display is there. So
(11:03):
not only does the character knowif they're working or not, but
the audience knows that they'reworking. So when the character
slaps their palm against theglass, as long as it lights up
blue, you know that it'ssticking, if it doesn't light up
blue, then there's this soundeffect that's associated with so
you slap your hand against thewall that lights up blue, and
(11:24):
there's that high pitchedcharging noise, then you know
that it's working, it's suckingthe hands against the wall. If
it turns red, you don't get thesound effect. And it's not
working. But without thatwithout those little bits of
visual, you know details, thenit's just a scene with Tom
Cruise slapping is like elegantgloves against the glass wall,
(11:45):
the whole scene falls apart.
Without those tiny littledetails is so key. Jason Bourne,
the Bourne films, he was quiteanti gadget, mostly what he uses
in his spy work are theireveryday objects, right, like
pencils, he stabs people withpencils, he beats people with
(12:05):
books. But what he did have wasis a really great monocular. So
it's like a very small, like thesize of a pocket flashlight fits
in the palm of your hand. Andand that he uses to like, you
know, you know the scan, scanthe scene or see someone far
away, that's about the onlygadget otherwise, it's like drop
(12:27):
phones and whatever's lyingaround that he can weaponize.
Christine Malec (12:31):
Um, let's talk a bit about cinematography and
starting maybe specifically withviewpoint because I'm assuming
that given the genre, there'slots of camera shots that
involve looking at someone whodoesn't know you're looking at
them from a distance. Is thatright?
JJ Hunt (12:46):
Yeah. So you do get a lot of those either first person
or often first person seenthrough some kind of device. So
you'll get either first personseen through, like a security
camera, right? So what is thesecurity camera picking up?
That's what's put on screen?
What's the point of view throughthe monocular? That's what's on
the screen, or did you know lotsof kinds of digital binoculars
(13:08):
and whatnot. So when that's thecase, the image quality changes.
So if it goes to like a closedcircuit TV camera, the image
goes to this very grainy, blackand white. If you're looking
through a digital binoculars,for example, it'll often go
green. So this is night vision.
(13:29):
So everything is presented ingreen light. So you get those
kinds of First Person thingsthat are happening. It's really
interesting. I mean, thecinematography and spy movies
is, it's very well establishedhow a lot of these scenes play
out the Jason Bourne films,really, they kind of shifted the
(13:49):
way these spy movies are, wereturned into action movies, and
the speed with which they werepresented. The editing is very,
very fast in these films. Butspy movies in general, work
really well on film. Because,first of all, film does subtlety
(14:11):
very well. And spy stories arefull of subtle moments. Right?
Novels are great for subtletyTVs, okay, theater is very
tricky. You don't like what waslast time you saw a good spy
play doesn't really work. Filmis perfect, because spine
stories are are filled withsmall moments, right? Like the
drama of using a dead drop, orfollowing someone or exchanging
(14:35):
glances. The way you cut fromone person to another. You can
do on film in a way that youcan't do on theatre. You can
direct the audience using youredits using your shot sequences.
So spy stories often requirereally good visual storytelling.
Because like you said, you'rewatching someone watched someone
(14:58):
else and So you need to, as adirector, get the audience to
follow those moments who'slooking at who How does that
make them respond or react. It'sa, the sequencing of your shots
is really important. So spystories require, I mean, they
(15:18):
can be a really interesting andvery cool challenge for a
describer. But if thestorytelling is strong, and the
description is well done, Ithink spy movies are brilliant
when they're described, becausethere's often a very linear path
through the scenes that arepacked with spy craft. And it's
a really great way to kind of,you're laying out all these
(15:41):
bread crumbs to put a scenetogether. And plus the sound
design in spy movies isfantastic, great for building
tension and so forth. I reallylike spy movies as described
films.
Christine Malec (15:52):
Yeah, I can see how storytelling becomes super
important because as thedescriber, as you say, it's a
trail of breadcrumbs and an anunobservant sighted viewer could
miss stuff just because they'renot observant and they miss
clues but as a describer. It'skind of your job to to draw a
subtle attention to that. I'mwondering about the use of
(16:16):
disguise and can we start with atrench coat? Am I right that
that's a classic of spy movies,can we just describe a trench
coat?
JJ Hunt (16:23):
Totally that oh, that trench coat so long. Usually,
the classic trench coat was awas like a beige color, you
know, all the way down topossibly the ankles, certainly
to mid calf often belted aroundthe waist, big wide lapels,
sometimes some pocket, sometimessome flaps on the shoulder. But
(16:43):
the great thing about a trenchcoat is you can pop the you can
pop the collar up, you can popthe lapel up, so it hides your
face, you pull your Fedora downlow, and now your quote unquote
hidden. I mean, the problem withthe trench coat is itself became
such a trope that it's like, Oh,you want to look for the spy
look for the guy dressed like aspy, right? This is where
(17:05):
disguise is really interestingbecause with disguises in real
life and in movies like TheBourne films. What you want to
do if you're wearing a disguiseis blend in. That's for the most
part. That's unless you'retalking about a specific trying
to look like a specific person.
When you're disguised, you'rejust trying to not be you you're
trying to blend in. So born isvery good at this born wears
(17:25):
normal clothes, dull colors.
Often a basic like baseball hat,no team logo or anything on it
just a blank baseball cap,nothing that's easy to identify.
And that way, Jason Bourne canmove around in whatever
environment he needs to becausehe blends right in. And then if
(17:48):
you need to escape, you ditchthe you ditch the hat and you
ditch the jacket. And then youcan blend in again, it's amazing
how shockingly effective this isvisual, like, both in these
films. And in real life. Ifyou've been identified as a guy
in a red hat in a blue jacket,and then you remove that Red Hat
(18:09):
and blue jacket, you can easilyslip past people who are
scanning a room or a video feedlooking for someone in a red hat
and blue jacket, because that'snot who you are anymore. And in
that moment, you can get awayand and I got to say as a parent
who has scanned crowds for kids,it's really effective. If you've
(18:30):
got a dog you put it like a youknow we always put very
distinctive like sun hats onthem if we were going to a beach
or a park or something likethat. Because then in the crowd,
all you look for is that hat,you're not looking for your kid,
you're looking for that hat andthen you can find but if they
take that hat off, you're lostbecause that's that's what
you've that's what you'reanchored on to.
Christine Malec (18:50):
What is a balaclava?
JJ Hunt (18:53):
Ah, okay, so a balaclava is like, like a woolly
hat material like a to cutmaterial and knit hat, usually
black, but instead of justsitting on top of the head, kind
of over the ears and across theforehead, it pulls all the way
down, and it covers the entireface. And there's usually a hole
cut out for each eye, and then ahole cut out for the mouth. And
(19:14):
that's it. It goes right overthe nose. It covers the entire
rest of the face. So a balaclavais often used in in scenes
where, you know, you're robbinga bank or something like that
you pull one of these things on,you can still speak you can
still see through them. But buteverything else is covered by
this usually black knit hat.
Christine Malec (19:34):
How about an evidence board? This was a
phrase you used in a differentcontext, and I just had nothing
I'd never even heard of it.
JJ Hunt (19:40):
Yeah, the evidence board is a classic. A lot of
like CIA analysts or you know,crime scene, investigators will
use the evidence board. So it'sgenerally except sometimes it's
a white board or something. Butusually the classic is the cork
board. And you put up pieces ofevidence like photographs. and
maps and maybe even like anevidence baggie, which I don't
(20:04):
think you would actually reallydo in a crime scene, but they
appear in these in movies andwhatnot. And then all of these
individual pieces of evidenceare linked together with string.
So you tie like a picture of aperson to a map that's got a
bunch of, you know, stickers orpins in it to identify places,
(20:27):
and you link that to a string,and then tie that to another
person's mug shot, and then tiethat to a piece of Evet,
whatever. And that's aconnection. And then you do that
somewhere else, where you takeanother photograph, and you take
some kind of photo that's beentaken in a crowd situation like,
and then you, you link thoseones. And you tie that to
(20:48):
another piece of evidence. Andthat's how you build a web of,
of evidence to link acomplicated set of characters
and pieces of evidence. And thisis usually presented when either
a person or an investigator or aspy, or someone is brilliant,
and is able to deduce all ofthese things and hold all of
(21:11):
these things in their mind allat once. Or sometimes it's kind
of the opposite, where aperson's gone over the edge.
And, and they're in therechasing conspiracy theories, and
they're in there finding links,where there really aren't any.
So it can be used to convey bothof those things. But visually,
it is, it is an absolute tropethat, you know, these all of
(21:35):
these different things. And ifyou zoom in on them, it's funny,
a lot of the, like, folks who dobreak down videos on YouTube and
whatnot, I know for that, likethere was a Batman, there was an
evidence board and the mostrecent Batman film, and if there
was a quick shot of it in thebackground of a trailer, and and
all of the YouTubers who areinto breaking down these
(21:57):
trailers, they focused in onthat, because they were able to
deduce things about the how thefilm was going to unfold, based
on what was included in thisevidence board and like a half
second shot in the trailer.
Yeah, there's a ton ofinformation packed in there.
Christine Malec (22:14):
Is there still a place for maps in spy films?
JJ Hunt (22:19):
Yeah, there is. I mean, I think in part because it's,
um, they're, they're greatvisual aids, they're great
tactile things, right. So youcan put a map on an evidence
board, and you can, you know,track things from point A to
point B, often as like, assomeone like Jason Bourne will
be in a new place that they'venever been before. They'll grab
(22:41):
a map, or they'll even pull up,there's, I think it's the very
first one, he's escaping theembassy, and he rips the map off
of the wall of a building, likeyou are here kind of map, rips
that off so that he can figureout his escape route through the
building. So there's no, that'sgood, both for the characters,
it's good within the story. Butit's also a good bit of visual
(23:02):
to tell the audience what'sgoing to happen. If you see a
character with a map, and youmight get a sense of the
landscape, you might get a senseof what the building looks like,
even though you're only seeing ashot of one hallway. Now you get
a shot of this map, and you'relike, oh, there's an exit.
There's a staircase that leadsup to you know, what I mean?
This is a great way to convey alot of information to, to folks
(23:26):
who are watching the film very,very closely.
Christine Malec (23:31):
And how would a character break in to something
how is that achieved?
JJ Hunt (23:36):
The classic with the lock picks, you often hear he
picks the lock. Yeah, usuallylock picking tools. Let's see,
there's usually one piece ofvery, very thin metal that goes
in and it's there to, to slowlypush the keys on the inside, I
(23:57):
can't remember the name of thethe gadgets on the inside, but
it slips in and it very slowly,jiggles the, whatever the
mechanism on the inside, andthen there's a second piece of
metal that you slide in besidethat, and you move it up and
down. So you generally alockpick as a lockpick set has
two items, very thin pieces ofmetal, one that is slowly
(24:18):
pushing in and the other onethat is kind of jiggling up and
down so that you can get thelittle I can't remember the name
of the little toggles orwhatever on the inside, to move
up and down in the same way thatthe pattern on a key would get
them to move. So usually it'stwo handed work with with if
it's done remotely accurately,with one object slowly being
(24:42):
pushed in and the other onebeing slowly jiggled up and
down. That's kind of the waythat's pick but a lot of that
stuff now is done on computers,but the computer has to do it
you have to break into a roomI'll get you access and whoever
it is on the computer side ofthings. That's some of my
favorite the visuals of thecomputers. In, in spy movies,
(25:02):
the stuff that's popping up onscreen is often ridiculous. It's
not like hacking, see, I'm goingto break into the building. And
then you know, they do whateveron the computer. And you know
that in real life, the back endsof programming is not visually
interesting. It's not designed.
But in films, all of that stuffis designed. It's designed to
(25:26):
look pretty, and it's designedto look clean and clear.
Christine Malec (25:33):
So is it graphics, then?
JJ Hunt (25:35):
A lot of graphics, custom graphics.
Christine Malec (25:37):
Totally unrealalistic.
JJ Hunt (25:39):
Absolutely unrealistic.
So a sighted audience member isgoing to know what's happening
based on the visuals of what'sgoing on on the screen, instead
of just looking at someonetyping very quickly and a bunch
of numbers flying by theirscreen, and then they say I'm in
because that's boring. So thevisuals try and make that more.
(25:59):
So sometimes a hacker will breakinto a system. And there's a
literal 3D map that the hackerzooms through. Like it's a
labyrinth of glowing green, orblue walls and paths, like
you're entering the matrix.
Christine Malec (26:15):
Right, right.
JJ Hunt (26:15):
It's ridiculous. That doesn't happen as much anymore.
I think that doesn't read asrealistic to too many people.
The other thing that happens alot are these big labels. Like
if you know, if they hit a wallsomewhere in the computer, a big
label, again, with full graphicsand nice border really like a
very distinctive font will sayunauthorized file transfer or
(26:36):
something like that. I don'tknow if that's actually how that
works. In real, I've neverreally tried to steal a file
from the CIA.
Christine Malec (26:43):
Come on... heh heh.
JJ Hunt (26:43):
So I don't really know if that's how that looks.
Heh heh. The otherthing I love are file names that
Christine Malec (26:45):
Not that you'd admit to.
are really easy to catch at aglance. So if someone is hacking
into a system, and they'rescrolling through the audience
should have, there should besome possibility that an
audience member can read ahandful of these file names and
(27:05):
see what's important. So youknow, someone will be scrolling
through a list of file names,and a lot of them will be
labeled CIA, like CIAoperatives, 2019.
JJ Hunt (27:14):
"Oh, that's the file I want! I don't know... And then
Christine Malec (27:14):
Right! Ha ha ha.
the file counters or theprogress bars, so things are
being transferred onto a memorystick. There's lots of that
right. Someone breaks in, youput a memory stick and you get
Right, right, right.
into the computer. Yes, thereare always progress bars on
everyone's laptop. But again,some of these progress bars are
huge, or the digital countdownof how many files or folders
(27:36):
have been moved from the desktopto the to the memory stick, or
it's like it takes up a quarterof the screen and has a sound
effect. Boop, boop, boop, boop,boop, boop, boop, boop,
JJ Hunt (27:47):
Never happens. That never happens. The other tech
thing on screens that I reallylove, it's quite hilarious is
it's sometimes referred to as"Enhanced that!" because that's
a phrase that you'll hear a lot.
So say Jason Bourne is walkingthrough a crowded train station.
And in the CIA control roomthey're watching on their
security monitors, right,they've hacked into the security
(28:10):
monitors of the train station,the security cameras, the train
station they're watching and youknow, from 100 feet away, the
camera spots some like somethingsuspicious, and this black and
white security camera, Tommy LeeJones yells enhance that, and
someone presses a single button,and a perfect picture of Jason
Bourne resolves on the screen.
(28:37):
There's no such enhance button.
There are ways to enhancedigital images.
Christine Malec (28:43):
Right, right.
JJ Hunt (28:43):
Certainly, there are ways to to make an image cleaner
or crisper or sharpened orwhatever. But there's not a
single button you can press thatwill turn a piece of CCTV
footage that was filmed 100 feetaway into a like a headshot with
the press of a button. But welove that stuff. "Enhance that!"
Christine Malec (29:08):
We hope you're loving the show. We really enjoy
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