June 30, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of 'Talk with History,' we interview Nick Berg, the author of the book 'Shadows of Tehran.'
Nick shares his gripping life story, from growing up in Iran and escaping an execution order to joining the U.S. Army and adapting to American culture. He delves into how his real-life experiences and extensive research shaped his historical fiction novel, which covers the Iranian Revolution, the Iran-Iraq War, and his subsequent life in America. This compelling discussion also offers perspectives on current world events and the ongoing struggles within Iran. Join us as we explore historical events through the unique lens of someone who lived them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to Talk with History.
(00:01):
Today we're doing somethinga little bit different.
We're interviewing.
Book author Nick Berg with avery timely book interview the
book's name is Shadows of Tehran.
Now Nick is actuallyIranian, born and raised.
He was there all the way up untilhe was 19 from the Iran Revolution
through the early eighties.
When.
He actually had an execution orderout on him, and he had to escape
(00:23):
the country to come to America.
So we got the chance to interviewNick, talk about his life and
how he wrote himself into thecharacter of this historical fiction
book called Shadows of Tehran.
I.
And it was in a great interview.
Nick's background is duality.
He is half American and half Iranian.
And so coming to America and thenlearning the culture here and then
(00:45):
joining the US military and everything themilitary gave him as far as perspective.
With the way the world is happeningright now, this book would be a
great background to understandthe world in Iran and America.
From the revolution to wherewe find ourselves today.
So stick around with us becausethere's more interesting stories, in
(01:06):
this interview than I can even count.
So we hope you enjoy our interview withNick Berg, author of Shadows of Tehran.
If they shoot you in order yourfamily to get your body, you have
to pay for the bullets, which is aexuberant amount of money to get the
body of the person they just executed.
(01:28):
I was actually picked up inthe middle of the street and
thrown into the Iranian army.
So the way I got outta the countrywas through the Turkish border and
so getting in the middle of the sheepand crossing the border, basically,
, didn't know anybody, had $50 in mypocket and landed in Detroit and sat
on the bench at the airport figuringout, okay, now what, what am I gonna do
(01:50):
my image of America was, I'm gonna goto Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang, and
I'm gonna break dancing the streets.
And I rented a bed over there, putmy suitcase, locked it up, and went
walking the streets to find a job
you want three meals a day asgood paycheck, medical benefits.
(02:10):
You want a think aboutsigning up for the Army?
And they opened the door,and this was August 1st.
Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,
Oh wow.
and we opened the door andthis rush of hot air hit me.
(02:35):
So we're here with, withauthor and veteran.
Man of many talents, Nick Berg.
Nick, thanks so much for, for joiningus and, and we're here to talk about,
your book, Shadows of Tehran, as wellas anything else that comes up during
the podcast because as Jenn was sayingbefore we started the official chat here
is she's been looking forward to it.
To talking to you, and again, as someonewho served yourself for about 11 years
(02:58):
in the Army, Jenn's a former Navy pilot.
I'm, I'm still in.
Just super excited to, to talk withsomeone else who's, writing about, a
little bit about your life and kindof some of the history behind that.
So can you tell us and, and our listenersand our watchers first a little bit
about the book and then we'll justjump off the springboard from there.
(03:19):
Sure.
Absolutely.
So the book is actually basedon my life and it's, it's been.
About two years since Istarted writing this book.
And what started the book was all myfriends keep saying, oh, you got such a
great story, you gotta write this down.
And so finally I decided,okay, I'm gonna write it down.
(03:40):
And English is my third language.
So I'm, I was really trying hard tomake sure I understand how to write it
for English, English within audience.
So I had a. Book coach tohelp me write the book.
He's a 10 times London Times bestseller
Oh, cool.
he helped me write this bookthroughout the whole process.
(04:01):
But I learned so much writing the book.
So you grew up in Iran, you escapedwhen you were 19, came over to
America and, and, and joined the Army.
Not too long after that, but asidefrom your experience, like the
first time, 19 years or so of yourlife there in Iran, what kind of
research did you do for the book?
(04:22):
Was there, were you just reachingout to friends and family
getting their experiences overthe period that you covered?
Because I think you covered from.
The seventies throughthrough the eighties.
And was it, was it past that, through the
Yeah, it was about early 2000.
Early two thousands.
So did you do any further researchor was it really mostly your
experience and then people you knew?
(04:42):
I did a lot of research actually to makesure that the events, because memory
fails you a lot of times and you seethings from a, from a perspective that you
understand at the moment and at the time,but it might not be accurate historically.
So I, I had to do a lot of researchto make sure that historically
(05:03):
is accurate because I'm writingit as a historical fiction.
What wanted to do is to have to givea people person perspective of how
people felt during these events, but theevents themselves had to be authentic
and had to be accurate in the process.
I.
So that, that's really neat because
Yeah, so I, I understand.
(05:24):
So you used a, a character.
Yeah.
You basically built a character basedon yourself, but it wasn't you, but
that's how you wrote this, which I, Ireally appreciate because that way you're
right, you have to research then because,just because you lived it Scott and I
lived Operation Iraqi Freedom operationduring Freedom doesn't mean I remember.
(05:45):
All of the specifics going on that thepolitics and the background, right?
I'm so focused in on what I'mdoing right then and where I'm at.
I'm not thinking about allof the other factors that are
happening around the world.
And so those things are important ifyou're writing historical fiction,
so I can definitely understand that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And a lot of people ask me a lot oftimes why did you write this as a memoir?
(06:09):
Why are you writing it asa historical as a fiction?
More than that?
I think based on everythingthat I've been in my life, I
didn't wanna justify anything.
I didn't want it to be me, and Iwanted to be a character, and I wanted
to be a person separate from me.
So going through the wholebook, writing, the, the writing
(06:31):
process was all about not me.
I'm talking about Ricardo and I'mtalking about his life in the process.
How so did, was there anything likeduring your research, and I always
find this interesting when we get totalk to authors, was there anything
during your research that you learnedor discovered that either surprised
you or you hadn't really known beforethat kind of changed the way you saw.
(06:54):
Some of that, that period of historythat you actually lived through,
but maybe not had known at the time?
Yeah, there were some detailsdetailed things that I wasn't aware
of that during the research processI learned at the bigger context.
It, it didn't, it was no surprises.
Oh my God.
Didn't happen the way I think ithappened, but it was like understanding
(07:14):
that, just like Jenn was saying, isthat you're so focused around your,
your piece of the pie on this, thatyou'd miss the bigger picture sometimes.
So when we talk about your personalhistory and what you're using for the
historical fiction is you're talking,you're living through the Iranian
revolution, that it's kicks off what,in like the 77 but ends in 79 and
(07:39):
you're living through this and youare, you have a duality of background
because your mother is Iranian andyour father is American is, and that's
true for your character as well.
Now in.
I know in your real life, yourfather leaves when you're seven.
Is that true for your character as well?
Yes.
Now, what is that like in thatculture for a father to leave
(08:03):
and to be raised by a mother?
Is that accepted in the Iranianculture or did you have Yeah,
really.
Tell me more.
Yeah, so my mom, so my mom being asingle mother was very difficult on her.
And, and I tried to portray thatin the book how difficult it was
that every time she talked toanybody, any guy in the market or
(08:24):
somewhere, they would look at her.
The women would come and holdtheir husbands away, like
she was trying to steal them.
Oh wow.
it it, the culture itself, eventhough that it was a, it's a modern
culture, there's still a lot ofthose stigmas and stuff around single
women, especially at that time.
And then after the revolutionhappened and they took away a lot of
(08:47):
the women's rights and those typesof things, it became a lot worse.
Now she was a single woman living in ahouse by herself under Islamic government.
And it, it, it was avery, very difficult time.
And I try to portray that in thebook as you read the book, is that
there was a reviewer that made acomment that sometimes survival and
(09:09):
love are two different things and
Oh
things for survival.
To get through things, and I thinkthe whole stepfather coming into the
picture and all of that, it was basedmore of a survival thing for her than
it was a love thing that she wanted tolive with this person and all of that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That, no, that, and that's aninteresting kind of observation,
(09:32):
especially by a, by a book reviewer.
Well, a hundred percent.
And that was my experiencein the Middle East too.
So I, I remember I couldn'treally shop in the Suks.
I had to have a male with me,because no one's really gonna.
Like you said, even make eyecontact with me or so to negotiate.
You really need a mail with you.
And I don't think people reallyunderstand that unless they've lived
(09:52):
it or seen it or what that's especiallyfrom an American Westernized culture,
you just don't understand that concept.
Now your mother remarried.
Is she still in Iran todayor did she come to America?
still there.
wow.
And do you
still there.
and do you go back and visit her?
No, I can't go back.
Yeah, I, I, I think I saw one of yourmore recent interviews that said you were,
(10:15):
you're a little bit of a, a rabble-rouser,and that's part of the reason why
you you escaped the country and was
my execution note was out,so I had to escape around
Oh, oh my goodness.
So explain that to me.
I saw execution order.
You're 19 years old.
What does that look like?
What, what does that, whenthat comes out, is it you and
a bunch of people or just you?
What,
what does that it was your face on awanted poster or something like that, or.
(10:39):
kind of like that.
But in, in Iran, during that periodof time in one year, they killed over
15,000 people of opposition people.
They hold executions in the,in the middle of the street.
They bring a tractor trailer with a nooseon it, and they hang the people there.
If they shoot you in order your familyto get your body, you have to pay
(11:02):
for the bullets, which is a exuberantamount of money to get the body of
body of the person they just executed.
Wow,
It's, at that time, there's no law.
Basically, they would just breakdown the doors, come into your house
whenever they please take you away.
And sometimes nobody would hear from you.
Currently in Iran, there's massgraves that that I mean is miles
(11:27):
and miles on mass graves, that thebodies are buried there with no
headstones with nothing like that.
And people have been trying to talkabout it, but it's, they can't.
Yeah,
I see.
Yeah.
So the execution order comesout with your name on it.
And basically it's either you gottaget outta the country or someone's
gonna turn you in, or someone's gonnashow up at your door and you don't
(11:49):
know when and you don't know who.
Exactly.
Now, how do you getoutta the country then?
So the way I got outta the countrywas through the Turkish border
between Iran and, and that area iswhere the Kurdish people live in
Turkey, Iran, and Northern Iraq.
That's where all of the.
Kurdish Bedouins have, and they havesheep and have thousands of sheep.
(12:11):
And so getting in the middle of thesheep and crossing the border, basically,
Okay.
Now, now for the, I think the next partof the book was obviously the ran Iraq
conflict that, that took place from80 to 88 because you weren't there,
obviously your perspective was assomeone who had, who had just left the
no.
I was there during the run Iraq war.
Oh, you were?
Yeah, he was in the army.
(12:33):
Okay.
So you actually, when youcame in the army, like you
got sent, you got sent over.
Yeah, actually when when I joined, whichIran and, and Iraq War, if you're talking
about Iran and Iraq or US and Iraq.
Ah, Iran and Iraq.
The
Iran and Iraq, yeah.
The Iran and Iraq War.
I was in Iran when it started,
Oh, I didn't realize that.
(12:54):
I was actually picked up inthe middle of the street and
thrown into the Iranian army.
For about six monthsfighting with the Iraqis.
And I have some scholars from it toobecause I, and it was basically, it
took me six months to prove that becauseif you are a student, you were exempt.
So it took me six months toprove first I'm not Iranian.
(13:16):
Second I'm a student.
And it took about six months to do that.
I had lost a couple of my reallygood friends, one to chemical
attack in Halal in Iraq.
I had to carry his body back from thefront lines, the, to get to bury him.
There were rockets comingdown on us pretty much every
night watching the fireworks.
We would come out into the streetsand watch the airplanes bomb, and we
(13:40):
would count the bombs because we knewhow many bombs each plane could carry.
And then we would know when it's whenthe number of bombs hit a certain amount.
Then we would say, okay,it's time to come back out.
Wow.
And you wrote your, your character again,your experience is all through that.
I'll alter that.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
So then your execution orderdoesn't come until the eighties
(14:02):
then if you're still in Iran
It's onto 8 19 87.
1987. Okay.
Okay.
So when you come toAmerica, how old are you?
I'm 19.
You are 19 and you come alone.
No, mom, are you?
mom, no family, didn't know anybody, had$50 in my pocket and landed in Detroit and
sat on the bench at the airport figuringout, okay, now what, what am I gonna do
(14:25):
Oh my gosh.
And can you speak any Englishat that time or very little?
very little, very broken English.
And it was a culture shock.
And, and this is the funny part, becausemy image of America, before that we
came to America one time before therevolution in Iran and stuff to look
for my dad and we couldn't find him.
By the way.
(14:45):
I found out my dad worksfor the CIA the whole time
I, I, I saw that in some of your
35 years later in Las Vegas,
crazy.
which is another story around own.
But my image of America was from moviesand the things that we saw in, in Iran.
So at the time, break dancing wasreally big, and Michael Jackson was
(15:09):
the, the, the big thing and all of that.
So my image of America was, I'm gonnago to Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang,
and I'm gonna break dancing the streets.
I love
that.
That's amazing.
I love that.
. So 87, you're sitting on abench in Detroit and you're
like, what am I gonna do now?
So what did you do?
(15:29):
What?
What does your character do?
What do you do next?
So there was a taxi driver.
He was sitting on the bench over therebecause it was summer day, it was
in August, and it was a summer day.
It was hot.
He was sitting there onthe bench with as well.
I had my one little suitcase.
I'm just sitting there just looking aroundthinking, okay, now what am I gonna do?
And had a conversation with theguy with my broken English, and
(15:53):
he said, where are you going?
I have no idea.
He said, you want to go to a hotel?
I'm like, I pulled out my money.
I said, this is what I got.
He said, that's not going to get you far.
Oh my gosh.
So he took me to a YMCA downtownDetroit which he could rent a
bed basically for $10 a night.
(16:14):
And I rented a bed over there, putmy suitcase, locked it up, and went
walking the streets to find a jobbecause I thought that's what you do.
Yeah.
I walked into Wendy's andthere was this beautiful lady,
the that ran was the manager.
And, and she asked, I asked her foran app for a job and she gave me
(16:37):
an application and she said, andI'm looking at this application.
I have no idea what towrite in this application.
So with my broken English recommunicated and she said, so do
you have a social security card?
I'm like, what is that?
Oh my God.
Yeah, of
I had no idea you neededa social security card.
She helped me through this whole processof getting the job and all of that stuff.
(17:01):
And my idea at the time was, soI was ripping burgers in the back
because my English wasn't very good.
So I'm like, okay, this is my career.
My dream was to make it to thecash register to be the guy that.
Yeah.
It's very much like coming to America.
Yeah.
Next week I'll be on fries and then thebig buck start rolling in McDonald's.
(17:24):
Not McDonald's.
Yeah, McDonald's.
Yeah.
So that was my idea of career progression.
But there was this strip mallacross the street and the Army
Police Station in that strip mall.
They would come and eat lunchat the Wendy's once in a while.
And this gentleman, he would, andevery, we started talking and having
(17:46):
conversations and stuff and he said, HeyI know you're here and all of this stuff.
You want three meals a day asgood paycheck, medical benefits.
You want a think aboutsigning up for the Army?
I'm like, sign me up.
This is great.
Let's do it.
When I took the ASVAB test,
(18:06):
That's
which I completely bombed it by the waythe math and the physics and things like
that was good English, not very good.
So the only thing Iqualified for was infantry
that's wild.
That's, I mean, that is, thatis quite the, quite the story.
Now, I think you said too, or atleast some of your interviews and
(18:28):
I collected some stuff together.
You said the Army really?
Taught you the life skills and gaveyou that structure, gave you that
foundation to, to, to make your,your, your life here in America.
Was that the, the same for yourcharacter through the book?
It is the same thing for thecharacters through the book.
I mean, army taught me what Americais about and it gave me a family
(18:48):
that I didn't have and it was, I.Unreal for me, going through basic
training and all of that stuffbecause I went through basic training
for three weeks when I was in Iran.
Oh yeah,
I first, I was really afraid whenthe sergeants would yell at you and
scream at after the first few days, Ifigured, man, they can't beat you up.
(19:10):
I'm.
My guys.
Oh, they can't, they can't hit me.
So the difference between Americanbasic and Iranian basic is the
physi, the physicality of whatthe instructor can do to you.
So in Iran, they reallycould hit you and beat
They hit you, they slapyou, they throw you around.
Oh wow.
(19:31):
But in American Army, I figured outall they can do is make me do pushups.
I'm like, why not
yeah, yeah.
do that all little?
Well, your perspective was solike, Hey, I got, I got this.
And
I, and, and I, I think too, all ofus who've gone through if anybody's
listening or watching, anybody who'sgone through bootcamp has that moment.
When they realize okay, Ican, I can do this right?
(19:53):
I can play this game,I can play this game.
It was the same for me.
And I had, I had nowhere near theexperience, you know, doing my
Navy version of, of bootcamp whenI went through through college.
But after a fir, the first fewdays, after you get used to
getting yelled at, I. Same thing.
All it can make me do is just domore pushups, and so it's, it's
that you have that realization.
Mm-hmm.
Especially for you.
You had already been through amuch, a much different experience.
(20:15):
Yeah.
I think that's amazing.
So how long before you joinedthe Army were you in America?
With about a year.
About six months.
months.
Okay.
So I love that you found the Armyand IFI love that you found and happy
250th birthday to the Army, by the way.
Yeah,
yeah.
Happy birthday to the Army.
I love that you found that becausethat is what the military does.
I really do believe that.
(20:36):
It gives you that family, itgives you that sense of community.
It builds up you as a person.
It teaches you how to those life.
Skills.
And then it also offers youways to develop yourself
with education and training.
And I love that's what you foundand you were able to do that.
I feel like it's almost like ablessing that happened to you.
It was a, it was a great blessing.
(20:57):
I owe everything to the army.
I mean, my whole life after.
Coming to the, to theus I owe it to the Army.
And I was so disappointedwhen I had to leave the Army.
And the reason was 'cause I got injuredin Bosnia and I couldn't be on the
teams anymore and I couldn't do the jumpoutta airplanes and all of that stuff.
(21:19):
So I, it, it was a realdisappointment for me that I
couldn't finish the whole 20 years.
Well, I love that theArmy also recognized.
Your potential as half Iranianthat they could use you in
this, in the Middle East, right?
And so I'm glad that they ablewere to recognize that as well.
(21:40):
And you were able to do that.
What was it like goingback in that capacity?
What did that feel like?
The interesting part was, and, and Inever forget that day when the steam
port one landed that we spent 17 hourson the Blackbird Steel 1 41 from Pul
first base into the Haran airport,when the first Gulf War happened.
(22:02):
And I got off that plane becausethey told us we were going to Turkey.
And they opened the door,and this was August 1st.
Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,
Oh wow.
and we opened the door andthis rush of hot air hit me.
And as soon as he hit me, a friendof mine that was sitting with
(22:25):
me, he's oh, we're in Turkey.
I'm like, no, we're not.
You knew.
You knew.
I could not forget that.
Desert
heat.
And so when we get off the plane andand get ready, they finally tell us
we're in Saudi Arabia and where ex theywere expecting Iraq to invade Kuwait.
(22:48):
And they pulled us to the right, the edgeof Saudi Iraq, Kuwait corner of the area.
And I never forget, we were standing therewith a bunch of stinger missiles and.
Bunch of our weapons and stuffand general luck at the time was
the, at Airborne Corps commander.
He was in charge and he came up to meand he said, son, see that highway?
(23:13):
I'm like, yes, sir. He said, if theIraqis decide to come into Saudi Arabia,
they're gonna come through here andthere's two battalion tank battalions
sitting at the other end of this highway.
What do you think we're gonna do?
I said, well, sir, we'rejust gonna fight with them.
He said, we don't have enough ammo orpeople here to fight the tank batal.
(23:36):
I said, well, then we just throwrocks at 'em, sir. He said, yes.
The spirit that's.
That's, that's what general's looking for.
She's just some fight.
I just need some fight with my soldiers.
We'll figure it out.
So that's, that's amazing.
How did you feel?
Going back to fight
how did you, how did that make you feel?
(23:58):
And I know that thisis a, this is personal.
This is not who your character is,but when, when you write a character
who's having this duality, and Ithink that is the biggest thing here.
It's survival, it's duality, it's, it'syou, you're straddling two worlds here.
You're American and Iranian.
And what's hard about that is youdon't really get accepted by either,
(24:19):
but your heart belongs to both.
Yeah, and the feeling was okay.
I spent all of this time runningout of Iran, going through Europe,
getting to America, joining the Army.
Now here I'm back in the same desert,fighting the same guys from a different
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Wow.
But even if Iran would've gotteninvolved into that war there is a
(24:40):
big difference with fighting yourpeople and fighting a government.
Yes.
Hmm.
And throughout this whole last few dayswhere all of the attacks on Iran from
Israel and all of this happened, everybodykeep asking me, so what do you think?
I'm like, Israel is notfighting the Iranian people.
They're fighting the Islamic government.
(25:01):
And I was fighting against thatIslamic government before I left Iran.
That's why my execution note was out.
There's a big separation ofdifference between the government
and the military in Iran as well.
So when you hear about the IRGC inIran, which is the kind of like the
Iraqi Republican guards and all ofthat, they're the defenders of the
(25:23):
government, not the defenders of Iran.
All of the heads that Israel tookout, they're all IRGC commanders.
These are the same peoplethat in 2019 and 2022.
Suppressed all of the uprisingof women life freedom in Iran.
They're the same ones that executeda lot of my friends, so I don't
(25:44):
see them as representative of Iran.
I see them as the Islamic government.
Yeah, I, I reallyappreciate that perspective.
'cause that, that very easily gets lostwhen you're just watching the news and
you just, you see the highlights of, hey,bombed, nuclear, facility sites and you
just, it's just the country in general.
But I, I appreciate that perspective,and that's something that I want our
(26:05):
listeners and our, and our viewers to toreally listen and, and to think about.
It's, to your point, it's, it's the,the, the, the government of the, that
aren't really protecting the people.
And I think in, in some other spots,you said it's anywhere from 80 to 90%
of the people are actually pro western.
right.
Yeah.
And they've just been suppressedand I like, I love that because
(26:27):
it's real world experience fromyou this clash of east versus west.
Why do you think peopledon't wanna hear the truth?
Like why do you think people think Iran?
Iran is.
Is all of this, and it's not thesepeople who are being oppressed.
And when you think about women's rights inIran, like I'm telling what rights, right?
Like I'm always like talking aboutthe way women are treated there.
(26:50):
I I was over there 20 years ago, right?
And I made a point to alwayswear my hair down so that you
could see that I was a woman and.
What I learned through my militaryexperience is I actually gave hope
to those Iranian women that thereis a, the westernized culture does
support women's rights and do actuallysee women as being something, being
(27:12):
more than just being suppressed.
And I wanted to do that to givethem hope and I don't know why here
in America that's hard for peopleto see that or understand that.
What do you
Yeah.
So this is a, this is a symptom of theWestern culture because the governments
are representatives of the people.
(27:34):
Yeah.
When your government is a representativeof people, your military is a
representative of your people,so the government and the people,
even though you might be on theleft, you might be on the right.
You might not disagree on a lot of thetopics and the decisions and all of
that, but the government is the people,and the people is the government.
(27:54):
So when you grow up in that type ofa society, you don't understand when
a dictator runs things on their own.
You think the people are supporting 'em.
That's why they're in power.
a lot of people ask me, sowhy doesn't people in Iran
just overthrow the government?
They think it's just like Rich, but it's
Mm-hmm.
(28:14):
Not that simple.
It's, it's a very different wayof looking at things and the way
different, so in, in America, inEurope, in most of these countries,
they feel that the government is theirs.
But in Iran, the governmentis a separate entity.
Yeah, that's, that's a great point.
And that's something again,I think that we try to talk
(28:37):
about through history, right?
When we talk about our history topics,we try to try to be cognizant of the lens
that we are looking at something through.
Whether it's our modern day moralsand values and, and what we know of,
whether it's like a slavery topic or theAmerican Revolution or whatever it is,
we try to be cognizant of our modern daylens that we're looking at it through.
(28:58):
But to your point, this is theAmerican Western lens that we're
looking at other countries through.
So that's, I think that'sa really good point.
And for, for folks who are history fansand, and, and listeners and, and, and
audience of ours, I would, I would.
I would hope that they they makethat connection because I think
that's a really good point.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and the thing is, and and I'm go,I'm gonna break this topic up because
(29:21):
I feel very passionate about it.
Is, is that when people talk about theIsraeli and Gaza war, and there's a lot
of people that say, oh my God, those poorpeople are dying over there, and Israel
is bombing them and doing this and doingthat, my argument to that is, did you
feel the same way when we bombed Berlin?
(29:43):
Hmm.
Yeah.
destroy the Nazis.
Yep.
There were a lot of innocent people there.
There were a lot ofwomen and children that
Mm-hmm.
and those were the people that,maybe not all of them, but
majority of them elected Hitler.
So the thing is, in every war,unfortunately, there is casualties and
(30:04):
there is civilian casualties, and thereis innocent people that are gonna die.
That doesn't change the fact thatwe have to fight the Just war.
Yeah,
I know, and people love touse World War II and Nazism as
their example for everything.
But they never forgetthe other side of it.
Like I always remind peoplewe didn't come into the war.
For a long time, right?
(30:26):
And we just kinda watched thingshappen for a long time, America, right?
We like to tote ourselves asthe heroes, but like for a long
time we just let that happen.
So imagine if we had the opportunityto bomb areas before they
opened the concentration camps.
Before they did that.
What?
Imagine we had that opportunity, whatwould that have looked like for America?
(30:48):
And people don't like to thinkabout that with the modernization of
everything, but I really loved youranalogy where you talked about your,
your character and your book withthe mirror and the window, right?
So looking at themselves, themselves,their life, who they are and
the window, the opportunity.
(31:09):
Can you explain that analogy for me?
'cause for the, our listeners, becauseI thought that was just insightful about
your character and what they're goingthrough in their personal background
and what they're doing in the worldwith this conflict that's going on.
Yeah the way I the message of thebook it's, it's really about hope.
(31:29):
It's, it's about it's about nomatter what you are going through,
it's not a basis of comparison.
Oh my God, this guy sawa lot of dead bodies.
I've never been in that situationand so my life is not as bad.
That's not the point.
The point is that no matterwhat life through you, you can't
control the external things thatinto you, but you can make the
(31:53):
decision to be a victim or survive.
And it's a personal decision,and what changes your life is
those series of decisions thatyou make throughout your life.
So what I'm, what I was trying to dowith that mirror is look at yourself.
Look at the decisions that you havemade, and use that window to see
(32:15):
what decisions other people havemade and what changed their lives
and what you can change in your ownlife in order to be a better person.
Yeah, I love that because history, I'm abig fan of history doesn't repeat itself.
But it echoes.
And if you can learn from history,if you can look through that window
of history and see what people didin the past and how they acted, it
(32:39):
can give you a good reflection in themirror of how maybe you can use that
knowledge and act and move forward.
And I really loved that.
Yeah, during my time when I waswhen I was in Iran and I'm working
against the government, the Frenchparties, and were my heroes.
yeah.
Yes.
I did a lot of reading around World WarII and really understanding their tactics,
(33:02):
what they did and how they did it, andall of that so that they were my heroes.
And so looking at that window was, ishow they adapted to live on their Nazis
and how that reflected in my life,living under the Islamic government.
Now that, that's cool that you.
And, and that's what I like aboutasking and seeing how people research
(33:24):
their books and stuff like that.
'cause Jenn's working on heron her own historical fiction.
And I, I love hearing abouthow people research because
different eras of history, I.
Have different resources, right?
If you're writing a book about apresident, sometimes a president was,
kept all sorts of journals and you canget primary source or for you, right?
You live through large parts of it,but you're also studying World War ii.
(33:48):
And some of the experiences there.
'cause I, I think you quoted acouple times, Winston Churchill, or
at least attributed him when you'regoing through, hell keep going.
And it seems like kind of like a coretenet of, of you and your character,
of going through these, these highsand lows of, of life and through
these, through these conflicts.
And so it's always interesting to meseeing, and again for our audience,
(34:09):
realizing that when you're researching.
A, a topic or you'reresearching for a book.
It doesn't have to be just onthat area, but you can see, war is
different, but it's also the same,throughout, throughout the years.
And so the experiences and, and whatdifferent societies and cultures
and areas of the world go through.
(34:29):
While there are very different in everyconflict, people are still people.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I had a question for you that I,you talk a lot about indoctrination
and lies, and you have the peopleyou know are swayed by politics
and you say sometimes uneducated.
In today's day and age, we evensee educated people who are swayed
(34:51):
by indoctrination and lies and.
It happens in every country.
So what, what have you found is thebest way to kind of like, is it just
getting the stories out there, gettingpeople to just listen instead of talk?
Is it getting people tojust do their own research?
What do you think is thebest way to overcome that?
(35:11):
Indoctrination and lies.
The thing is, is that when we, whenI talk about uneducated, I'm not
talking about school education,
Yeah.
there's a big difference.
You could have a PhD and still be in it.
Yeah, that's that's very true.
Yeah.
So it, it's not about schooleducation, it's about life
(35:33):
education, it's about looking atthe past, looking at the history.
I'm a big, huge history above.
So it's really understandingwhat happened, what are the
things that happened in the past.
Everything from when we look atWorld War I and the causes of
the World War I, why it started.
Everybody likes to talk aboutWorld War ii, but World War I was
(35:54):
actually the starter of World War ii.
So when you look World War I and whathappened there and how Hitler came into
power and influenced big populations basedon what happened in World War I and how
used that to basically, create the Jews asthe enemy of Germany and, and all of that.
(36:15):
So there's a lot of lessons in therefrom the propaganda perspective, from
understanding how he was able to changeminds of people to do all of those things.
And then when it comes toreligion, it's becomes a
completely different picture and.
As Nietzche once said, good peoplewill always do good and bad.
(36:36):
People will always do bad, but for agood person to do bad, it takes religion.
Interesting.
Yep.
that is really interest to understandthe, your own belief system and what you
own Compass in your life is and how you.
Look at things and Yeah, especiallytoday with social media and all of these
(36:59):
things, there's a lot of influenceson you, but do your own research.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the most,one of the most important things we
always try to just mention, right?
We've done, I don't know howmany podcasts now, 150 plus 160,
and when we're talking about.
Fellow authors or the topics we'realways trying to talk about, Hey, this
(37:21):
is, these are great places to start.
If it's primary source, that'sideal, but if you're reading
another author, you gotta make sureyou do your own homework, right?
We talked about Steven Ambrose nottoo long ago, and he did some, some
amazing things for history and forWorld War II in the World War II Museum.
But he had his own weaknesses as well.
And and we always saythat doesn't mean that.
It's not good information.
(37:42):
It just means that you need to makesure that you have the critical
thinking skills enough, right?
The life experience enough to knowHey, if I have a question about this
thing, I shouldn't just always takeit in in blind faith as the truth.
I should, I should do my ownhomework, I should do my own research.
Yeah.
So I grew up in my uncle's bookstore.
My and it's in the book.
(38:03):
My uncle had this really smallbookstore that he repaired all antique
books and, and things like that.
So he was kind like my father.
For most of my time in Iranthat I, I grew up with.
And he, he was a real criticalthinker in, in this process and I
learned so much from him and insideof that bookstore and and all of that.
(38:27):
And he always told me, he said, whenyou read in the book, keep in mind that
that's the perspective of the writer.
And remember that the history isalways written by the victors.
And so there's always another side to
Mm-hmm.
So
a great lesson to learn when you're
you're reading these things.
Yep.
Absolutely.
(38:47):
That's, that's a phenomenal lessonto have built into you at a young age
because it's too easy now, especiallywith the internet and stuff like that.
You just, you Google something and youassume that the top couple hits are true.
That's not the case.
Not not
case.
Go
Now your character in thebook, you, you're gonna, you,
you wanna write more, right?
So where does the storyend for your character?
(39:08):
What time is the story ending and what,what would be the next follow on to it?
So the next book is gonna be finishingRicardo's story basically, and that would
be probably somewhere around 20 18, 20 19.
That's where I'm gonna finish his story.
The third book is gonna be about my dad
(39:29):
Okay.
Oh,
okay.
because he passed away two years ago.
And I spent three weeks before hepassed away with and recorded all of his
stories to write it as the third book.
And he was a Naval intelligent officer.
He was a Navy.
Okay.
All right.
Fell fellow Army, Navy.
Army, Navy, family.
(39:50):
Now, in our research, I saw thatyou've, you've talked about him, right?
He had worked for, was it CIAor was it Navy intelligence?
Yeah, he worked for the CIAquite an, sounds like his story
would be quite interesting.
So can you touch a little bit on, on himand maybe what you'll write in that book?
Yeah.
His story, he was, he was in Vietnamduring the Vietnam War and his ship
(40:13):
docked in Iran at the time in the sixties,and that's where he met my mom and.
He was actually was supposed tobe in Iran, and he was leaving
the Navy and coming to Iran.
And after I found him 35 years later inLas Vegas, I asked him, I said so, because
(40:35):
then I found out that I have a whole bunchof half-sisters and brothers in Egypt, in
Lebanon, in couple other places as well.
And I asked him, I said, sowhy do you have so many women
and families and all of that?
And his answer was havinga family is the best cover.
Oh my gosh.
You know when I read thatabout you and I was talking to
(40:57):
Scott, CIA, I'm like his dad.
Sounds like the typical James Bondfrom the, from the work we have
done with people like your dad.
I. That is the best cover, and I wasn'tsurprised to hear that you had, he had
other families, because that was evenmy experience working with those people
Yeah, but one thing I say about mydad, he wasn't an emotional person.
(41:21):
He wasn't in my life for a very longtime, and but he did work with the
US Army and directed a lot of thethings that I did in the US Army.
He knew exactly where I was, what I wasdoing, and he had complete insight into
everything from the time I left Iran.
Wow.
(41:41):
And I didn't know he was there.
Wow.
That's, that's gotta be, I mean, hhow, what did that feel like when
you found out that he had he, he hadthat insight oversight on your life.
Was that kind of a relief?
Was that like, I, I imagine you musthave had some mixed feelings about that.
I working with specialoperations in the Army.
(42:03):
I understood him.
Ah, okay.
Of course, yeah, you could, you,you had a little bit of insight
already so you could categorize
my sister is completelythe opposite of me.
She's oh my God, he's an idiot.
He's this, he's that.
He didn't take care ofus, he, all of that.
But I completely understood him.
I only completelyunderstood his mentality.
(42:25):
For him, it was country and his job,that's all he cared about in his life.
Everything else was avehicle to get the job done.
Wow.
It's, it sounds likequintessential James bond, right?
That, that unforgivinglove of country, right?
Like it make it, you just, whateverit takes for that love of country and.
(42:48):
I, I'll be honest with you,between, between our listeners
and you, we need people like that.
And so I'm thankful forpeople like your father.
Yes, we do.
We, we need people like that.
Okay.
All right.
Right on.
That's good.
So if, if people want to find yourbook, if they wanna find more about
you and keep track of you and, andlook for your future books, because I
(43:08):
think that, I mean, I, I'm, I'm gonnaprobably order your book because I
just think it sounds so fascinating.
I'm enjoying this, this conversationand I think the future books
will be just as interesting.
Where, where's the best placefor, for folks to, to find you and
So my website pn berg.com.
Okay.
That's, and by the way, I goby Nick because it was easier.
(43:29):
My first name is Pedro.
That's why I named the character Ricardo.
And with the last name, which is Berg,which is sounds Jewish and in in Iran.
And you saw on all those commentsand everything else they're talking
about that he might be Jewish.
I'm not Jewish.
My mom was Raan, actuallyshe was a Muslim.
I grew up as a Zora and,everybody called me the Spanish
(43:54):
Jewish person with the Iranianbackground that never fit anywhere.
So the, the, the book, they canfind it on my website, pburg.com.
The book's available everywhere.
Book sold.
Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
Any of the local bookstores,they can, they can find it there.
We, we really appreciate you joining ustoday and, and telling us, about your,
(44:17):
your life and your, your book and, andall the stuff that's around that because
it is chockfull of not only history, but.
I mean, you're the primary source inthis, for a lot of this stuff, which
is, which is fun for, for us as, as ashistory nerds, well, history nerd and,
and, and aspiring, married to a historynerd right here, as I joke all the time.
(44:38):
But it, it's fun to be able to, I. Learnabout the research you did, but also
that you are part of the primary source,which is, which is pretty unique for us.
Yeah.
And the book is called, Yes.
The book is called Shadows of Teran,and I want people to understand we're
living in the shadows of teran right now.
Yeah.
So if you wanna read something, learnsomething that is based in real history of
(45:02):
what is happening in the world today, thiswould be a great book for you to start.
So we thank you for joining us today.
It was a great conversation.
We are praying for your mom andyour family over there, we hope.
fine right now.
I talked to her yesterday.
She's fine.
Yeah.
And uh.
The, the, the biggest thing is, iscoming to America and living here,
(45:25):
I really appreciate everythingthat this country has done for me.
And, there is no greater place to live.
And so I was talking to somebody, I said,if America changes and goes away the way
it is today, there's nowhere else to go.
That's it.
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah.
(45:45):
Yeah.
Look at that.
You got this one.
I got this one.
Emotional.
Well, thanks again and again forour watchers and our listeners.
I'll have all the informationfor Nick's book down in the show
notes and the video description.
I'll flash some stuff upon the screen as well.
But thank you again, Nick, forjoining us and and for our audience,
we'll talk to you guys next time.
All right.
So what'd you guys think ofour interview , with Nick?
There was.
(46:06):
More surprises to me, even after I'ddone my research and looked at his other
podcast and interviews he's been on,
, we even found out he was a littlestarstruck talking to us because he's
been following us for a couple years.
But what'd you guys think of that, Jen?
What'd you think of the interview?
I felt like it was so validating aboutwhere America is today, about our
love of country, our love of, serving.
(46:28):
, in, , in the greatestmilitary in the world.
But he really put a lot of perspectiveas someone who grew up through it all and
what's happening today, what he's seeingtoday, I loved his perspective, his
point of view, historical fiction, writingabout what's going on today from a real
life perspective of someone who lived it.
Yeah.
(46:48):
, and it sounds like he's got acouple more books coming out
that are even more interesting.
Like the, the story about his fatherhaving worked for the, the Navy in
the intelligence world, and then theCIA and then he found out he's got.
A bunch of half brothers andsisters all spread throughout
the, throughout the globe.
, it was just a fascinating interview.
Nick was such a, a positive personand I, I just so enjoyed talking
(47:12):
to him as a fellow veteran.
, someone who had served in theArmy for 11 years and would've
done more if he could have.
, and now he's getting this story out there.
It's fun to talk to someonewho is a primary source.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That is incredibly rare for us.
, I don't know if we couldever really say that.
, and the fact that he not only researchedwhat happened there in the Middle
(47:32):
East, but other wars to help fillout some of the experiences of the
characters in his story, which I justthought was a really interesting way.
I Interesting piece of howauthors do what they do.
Yeah.
And as historians, you, we knowyou love this podcast in, in
this show because of history.
If you wanna learn more aboutwhat's happening in the world
(47:52):
today, this would be a great book.
Yeah.
This would be a great way to start.
Just get, get your feet wet insomeone who's lived through this
Iranian revolution, then throughthe Iranian Iraq war, then
coming to America and going back.
It really is.
A great foundation to where Americais today and all of these different
conflicts that are going on.
, it gives you a great understandingof this from our generation.
(48:17):
So yeah, I really think this was.
A wonderful interview for us to doand , we don't really do a lot of like
current events, but I feel like thisis very important and the history of
it is important for everyone to learn.
Yeah.
So if you want a book with good storythat's well researched, that's accurate
because he took his time making sure itwas accurate and not just biased from
(48:38):
his, from his view, from going through it.
That will help explain what's goingon in the world today and give you
some knowledge and foundation in that.
Check out shadows of Tehran.
Links are in the video descriptionor podcast show notes below.
We hope you enjoyed this, thispodcast, and our interview with Nick,
and we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you.
Welcome to Talk with History.
(00:01):
Today we're doing somethinga little bit different.
We're interviewing.
Book author Nick Berg with avery timely book interview the
book's name is Shadows of Tehran.
Now Nick is actuallyIranian, born and raised.
He was there all the way up untilhe was 19 from the Iran Revolution
through the early eighties.
When.
He actually had an execution orderout on him, and he had to escape
(00:23):
the country to come to America.
So we got the chance to interviewNick, talk about his life and
how he wrote himself into thecharacter of this historical fiction
book called Shadows of Tehran.
I.
And it was in a great interview.
Nick's background is duality.
He is half American and half Iranian.
And so coming to America and thenlearning the culture here and then
(00:45):
joining the US military and everything themilitary gave him as far as perspective.
With the way the world is happeningright now, this book would be a
great background to understandthe world in Iran and America.
From the revolution to wherewe find ourselves today.
So stick around with us becausethere's more interesting stories, in
(01:06):
this interview than I can even count.
So we hope you enjoy our interview withNick Berg, author of Shadows of Tehran.
If they shoot you in order yourfamily to get your body, you have
to pay for the bullets, which is aexuberant amount of money to get the
body of the person they just executed.
(01:28):
I was actually picked up inthe middle of the street and
thrown into the Iranian army.
So the way I got outta the countrywas through the Turkish border and
so getting in the middle of the sheepand crossing the border, basically,
, didn't know anybody, had $50 in mypocket and landed in Detroit and sat
on the bench at the airport figuringout, okay, now what, what am I gonna do
(01:50):
my image of America was, I'm gonna goto Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang, and
I'm gonna break dancing the streets.
And I rented a bed over there, putmy suitcase, locked it up, and went
walking the streets to find a job
you want three meals a day asgood paycheck, medical benefits.
(02:10):
You want a think aboutsigning up for the Army?
And they opened the door,and this was August 1st.
Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,
Oh wow.
and we opened the door andthis rush of hot air hit me.
(02:35):
So we're here with, withauthor and veteran.
Man of many talents, Nick Berg.
Nick, thanks so much for, for joiningus and, and we're here to talk about,
your book, Shadows of Tehran, as wellas anything else that comes up during
the podcast because as Jenn was sayingbefore we started the official chat here
is she's been looking forward to it.
To talking to you, and again, as someonewho served yourself for about 11 years
(02:58):
in the Army, Jenn's a former Navy pilot.
I'm, I'm still in.
Just super excited to, to talk withsomeone else who's, writing about, a
little bit about your life and kindof some of the history behind that.
So can you tell us and, and our listenersand our watchers first a little bit
about the book and then we'll justjump off the springboard from there.
(03:19):
Sure.
Absolutely.
So the book is actually basedon my life and it's, it's been.
About two years since Istarted writing this book.
And what started the book was all myfriends keep saying, oh, you got such a
great story, you gotta write this down.
And so finally I decided,okay, I'm gonna write it down.
(03:40):
And English is my third language.
So I'm, I was really trying hard tomake sure I understand how to write it
for English, English within audience.
So I had a. Book coach tohelp me write the book.
He's a 10 times London Times bestseller
Oh, cool.
he helped me write this bookthroughout the whole process.
(04:01):
But I learned so much writing the book.
So you grew up in Iran, you escapedwhen you were 19, came over to
America and, and, and joined the Army.
Not too long after that, but asidefrom your experience, like the
first time, 19 years or so of yourlife there in Iran, what kind of
research did you do for the book?
(04:22):
Was there, were you just reachingout to friends and family
getting their experiences overthe period that you covered?
Because I think you covered from.
The seventies throughthrough the eighties.
And was it, was it past that, through the
Yeah, it was about early 2000.
Early two thousands.
So did you do any further researchor was it really mostly your
experience and then people you knew?
(04:42):
I did a lot of research actually to makesure that the events, because memory
fails you a lot of times and you seethings from a, from a perspective that you
understand at the moment and at the time,but it might not be accurate historically.
So I, I had to do a lot of researchto make sure that historically
(05:03):
is accurate because I'm writingit as a historical fiction.
What wanted to do is to have to givea people person perspective of how
people felt during these events, but theevents themselves had to be authentic
and had to be accurate in the process.
I.
So that, that's really neat because
Yeah, so I, I understand.
(05:24):
So you used a, a character.
Yeah.
You basically built a character basedon yourself, but it wasn't you, but
that's how you wrote this, which I, Ireally appreciate because that way you're
right, you have to research then because,just because you lived it Scott and I
lived Operation Iraqi Freedom operationduring Freedom doesn't mean I remember.
(05:45):
All of the specifics going on that thepolitics and the background, right?
I'm so focused in on what I'mdoing right then and where I'm at.
I'm not thinking about allof the other factors that are
happening around the world.
And so those things are important ifyou're writing historical fiction,
so I can definitely understand that.
Yeah, absolutely.
And a lot of people ask me a lot oftimes why did you write this as a memoir?
(06:09):
Why are you writing it asa historical as a fiction?
More than that?
I think based on everythingthat I've been in my life, I
didn't wanna justify anything.
I didn't want it to be me, and Iwanted to be a character, and I wanted
to be a person separate from me.
So going through the wholebook, writing, the, the writing
(06:31):
process was all about not me.
I'm talking about Ricardo and I'mtalking about his life in the process.
How so did, was there anything likeduring your research, and I always
find this interesting when we get totalk to authors, was there anything
during your research that you learnedor discovered that either surprised
you or you hadn't really known beforethat kind of changed the way you saw.
(06:54):
Some of that, that period of historythat you actually lived through,
but maybe not had known at the time?
Yeah, there were some detailsdetailed things that I wasn't aware
of that during the research processI learned at the bigger context.
It, it didn't, it was no surprises.
Oh my God.
Didn't happen the way I think ithappened, but it was like understanding
(07:14):
that, just like Jenn was saying, isthat you're so focused around your,
your piece of the pie on this, thatyou'd miss the bigger picture sometimes.
So when we talk about your personalhistory and what you're using for the
historical fiction is you're talking,you're living through the Iranian
revolution, that it's kicks off what,in like the 77 but ends in 79 and
(07:39):
you're living through this and youare, you have a duality of background
because your mother is Iranian andyour father is American is, and that's
true for your character as well.
Now in.
I know in your real life, yourfather leaves when you're seven.
Is that true for your character as well?
Yes.
Now, what is that like in thatculture for a father to leave
(08:03):
and to be raised by a mother?
Is that accepted in the Iranianculture or did you have Yeah,
really.
Tell me more.
Yeah, so my mom, so my mom being asingle mother was very difficult on her.
And, and I tried to portray thatin the book how difficult it was
that every time she talked toanybody, any guy in the market or
(08:24):
somewhere, they would look at her.
The women would come and holdtheir husbands away, like
she was trying to steal them.
Oh wow.
it it, the culture itself, eventhough that it was a, it's a modern
culture, there's still a lot ofthose stigmas and stuff around single
women, especially at that time.
And then after the revolutionhappened and they took away a lot of
(08:47):
the women's rights and those typesof things, it became a lot worse.
Now she was a single woman living in ahouse by herself under Islamic government.
And it, it, it was avery, very difficult time.
And I try to portray that in thebook as you read the book, is that
there was a reviewer that made acomment that sometimes survival and
(09:09):
love are two different things and
Oh
things for survival.
To get through things, and I thinkthe whole stepfather coming into the
picture and all of that, it was basedmore of a survival thing for her than
it was a love thing that she wanted tolive with this person and all of that.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
That, no, that, and that's aninteresting kind of observation,
(09:32):
especially by a, by a book reviewer.
Well, a hundred percent.
And that was my experiencein the Middle East too.
So I, I remember I couldn'treally shop in the Suks.
I had to have a male with me,because no one's really gonna.
Like you said, even make eyecontact with me or so to negotiate.
You really need a mail with you.
And I don't think people reallyunderstand that unless they've lived
(09:52):
it or seen it or what that's especiallyfrom an American Westernized culture,
you just don't understand that concept.
Now your mother remarried.
Is she still in Iran todayor did she come to America?
still there.
wow.
And do you
still there.
and do you go back and visit her?
No, I can't go back.
Yeah, I, I, I think I saw one of yourmore recent interviews that said you were,
(10:15):
you're a little bit of a, a rabble-rouser,and that's part of the reason why
you you escaped the country and was
my execution note was out,so I had to escape around
Oh, oh my goodness.
So explain that to me.
I saw execution order.
You're 19 years old.
What does that look like?
What, what does that, whenthat comes out, is it you and
a bunch of people or just you?
What,
what does that it was your face on awanted poster or something like that, or.
(10:39):
kind of like that.
But in, in Iran, during that periodof time in one year, they killed over
15,000 people of opposition people.
They hold executions in the,in the middle of the street.
They bring a tractor trailer with a nooseon it, and they hang the people there.
If they shoot you in order your familyto get your body, you have to pay
(11:02):
for the bullets, which is a exuberantamount of money to get the body of
body of the person they just executed.
Wow,
It's, at that time, there's no law.
Basically, they would just breakdown the doors, come into your house
whenever they please take you away.
And sometimes nobody would hear from you.
Currently in Iran, there's massgraves that that I mean is miles
(11:27):
and miles on mass graves, that thebodies are buried there with no
headstones with nothing like that.
And people have been trying to talkabout it, but it's, they can't.
Yeah,
I see.
Yeah.
So the execution order comesout with your name on it.
And basically it's either you gottaget outta the country or someone's
gonna turn you in, or someone's gonnashow up at your door and you don't
(11:49):
know when and you don't know who.
Exactly.
Now, how do you getoutta the country then?
So the way I got outta the countrywas through the Turkish border
between Iran and, and that area iswhere the Kurdish people live in
Turkey, Iran, and Northern Iraq.
That's where all of the.
Kurdish Bedouins have, and they havesheep and have thousands of sheep.
(12:11):
And so getting in the middle of thesheep and crossing the border, basically,
Okay.
Now, now for the, I think the next partof the book was obviously the ran Iraq
conflict that, that took place from80 to 88 because you weren't there,
obviously your perspective was assomeone who had, who had just left the
no.
I was there during the run Iraq war.
Oh, you were?
Yeah, he was in the army.
(12:33):
Okay.
So you actually, when youcame in the army, like you
got sent, you got sent over.
Yeah, actually when when I joined, whichIran and, and Iraq War, if you're talking
about Iran and Iraq or US and Iraq.
Ah, Iran and Iraq.
The
Iran and Iraq, yeah.
The Iran and Iraq War.
I was in Iran when it started,
Oh, I didn't realize that.
(12:54):
I was actually picked up inthe middle of the street and
thrown into the Iranian army.
For about six monthsfighting with the Iraqis.
And I have some scholars from it toobecause I, and it was basically, it
took me six months to prove that becauseif you are a student, you were exempt.
So it took me six months toprove first I'm not Iranian.
(13:16):
Second I'm a student.
And it took about six months to do that.
I had lost a couple of my reallygood friends, one to chemical
attack in Halal in Iraq.
I had to carry his body back from thefront lines, the, to get to bury him.
There were rockets comingdown on us pretty much every
night watching the fireworks.
We would come out into the streetsand watch the airplanes bomb, and we
(13:40):
would count the bombs because we knewhow many bombs each plane could carry.
And then we would know when it's whenthe number of bombs hit a certain amount.
Then we would say, okay,it's time to come back out.
Wow.
And you wrote your, your character again,your experience is all through that.
I'll alter that.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
So then your execution orderdoesn't come until the eighties
(14:02):
then if you're still in Iran
It's onto 8 19 87.
1987. Okay.
Okay.
So when you come toAmerica, how old are you?
I'm 19.
You are 19 and you come alone.
No, mom, are you?
mom, no family, didn't know anybody, had$50 in my pocket and landed in Detroit and
sat on the bench at the airport figuringout, okay, now what, what am I gonna do
(14:25):
Oh my gosh.
And can you speak any Englishat that time or very little?
very little, very broken English.
And it was a culture shock.
And, and this is the funny part, becausemy image of America, before that we
came to America one time before therevolution in Iran and stuff to look
for my dad and we couldn't find him.
By the way.
(14:45):
I found out my dad worksfor the CIA the whole time
I, I, I saw that in some of your
35 years later in Las Vegas,
crazy.
which is another story around own.
But my image of America was from moviesand the things that we saw in, in Iran.
So at the time, break dancing wasreally big, and Michael Jackson was
(15:09):
the, the, the big thing and all of that.
So my image of America was, I'm gonnago to Detroit, I'm gonna join a gang,
and I'm gonna break dancing the streets.
I love
that.
That's amazing.
I love that.
. So 87, you're sitting on abench in Detroit and you're
like, what am I gonna do now?
So what did you do?
(15:29):
What?
What does your character do?
What do you do next?
So there was a taxi driver.
He was sitting on the bench over therebecause it was summer day, it was
in August, and it was a summer day.
It was hot.
He was sitting there onthe bench with as well.
I had my one little suitcase.
I'm just sitting there just looking aroundthinking, okay, now what am I gonna do?
And had a conversation with theguy with my broken English, and
(15:53):
he said, where are you going?
I have no idea.
He said, you want to go to a hotel?
I'm like, I pulled out my money.
I said, this is what I got.
He said, that's not going to get you far.
Oh my gosh.
So he took me to a YMCA downtownDetroit which he could rent a
bed basically for $10 a night.
(16:14):
And I rented a bed over there, putmy suitcase, locked it up, and went
walking the streets to find a jobbecause I thought that's what you do.
Yeah.
I walked into Wendy's andthere was this beautiful lady,
the that ran was the manager.
And, and she asked, I asked her foran app for a job and she gave me
(16:37):
an application and she said, andI'm looking at this application.
I have no idea what towrite in this application.
So with my broken English recommunicated and she said, so do
you have a social security card?
I'm like, what is that?
Oh my God.
Yeah, of
I had no idea you neededa social security card.
She helped me through this whole processof getting the job and all of that stuff.
(17:01):
And my idea at the time was, soI was ripping burgers in the back
because my English wasn't very good.
So I'm like, okay, this is my career.
My dream was to make it to thecash register to be the guy that.
Yeah.
It's very much like coming to America.
Yeah.
Next week I'll be on fries and then thebig buck start rolling in McDonald's.
(17:24):
Not McDonald's.
Yeah, McDonald's.
Yeah.
So that was my idea of career progression.
But there was this strip mallacross the street and the Army
Police Station in that strip mall.
They would come and eat lunchat the Wendy's once in a while.
And this gentleman, he would, andevery, we started talking and having
(17:46):
conversations and stuff and he said, HeyI know you're here and all of this stuff.
You want three meals a day asgood paycheck, medical benefits.
You want a think aboutsigning up for the Army?
I'm like, sign me up.
This is great.
Let's do it.
When I took the ASVAB test,
(18:06):
That's
which I completely bombed it by the waythe math and the physics and things like
that was good English, not very good.
So the only thing Iqualified for was infantry
that's wild.
That's, I mean, that is, thatis quite the, quite the story.
Now, I think you said too, or atleast some of your interviews and
(18:28):
I collected some stuff together.
You said the Army really?
Taught you the life skills and gaveyou that structure, gave you that
foundation to, to, to make your,your, your life here in America.
Was that the, the same for yourcharacter through the book?
It is the same thing for thecharacters through the book.
I mean, army taught me what Americais about and it gave me a family
(18:48):
that I didn't have and it was, I.Unreal for me, going through basic
training and all of that stuffbecause I went through basic training
for three weeks when I was in Iran.
Oh yeah,
I first, I was really afraid whenthe sergeants would yell at you and
scream at after the first few days, Ifigured, man, they can't beat you up.
(19:10):
I'm.
My guys.
Oh, they can't, they can't hit me.
So the difference between Americanbasic and Iranian basic is the
physi, the physicality of whatthe instructor can do to you.
So in Iran, they reallycould hit you and beat
They hit you, they slapyou, they throw you around.
Oh wow.
(19:31):
But in American Army, I figured outall they can do is make me do pushups.
I'm like, why not
yeah, yeah.
do that all little?
Well, your perspective was solike, Hey, I got, I got this.
And
I, and, and I, I think too, all ofus who've gone through if anybody's
listening or watching, anybody who'sgone through bootcamp has that moment.
When they realize okay, Ican, I can do this right?
(19:53):
I can play this game,I can play this game.
It was the same for me.
And I had, I had nowhere near theexperience, you know, doing my
Navy version of, of bootcamp whenI went through through college.
But after a fir, the first fewdays, after you get used to
getting yelled at, I. Same thing.
All it can make me do is just domore pushups, and so it's, it's
that you have that realization.
Mm-hmm.
Especially for you.
You had already been through amuch, a much different experience.
(20:15):
Yeah.
I think that's amazing.
So how long before you joinedthe Army were you in America?
With about a year.
About six months.
months.
Okay.
So I love that you found the Armyand IFI love that you found and happy
250th birthday to the Army, by the way.
Yeah,
yeah.
Happy birthday to the Army.
I love that you found that becausethat is what the military does.
I really do believe that.
(20:36):
It gives you that family, itgives you that sense of community.
It builds up you as a person.
It teaches you how to those life.
Skills.
And then it also offers youways to develop yourself
with education and training.
And I love that's what you foundand you were able to do that.
I feel like it's almost like ablessing that happened to you.
It was a, it was a great blessing.
(20:57):
I owe everything to the army.
I mean, my whole life after.
Coming to the, to theus I owe it to the Army.
And I was so disappointedwhen I had to leave the Army.
And the reason was 'cause I got injuredin Bosnia and I couldn't be on the
teams anymore and I couldn't do the jumpoutta airplanes and all of that stuff.
(21:19):
So I, it, it was a realdisappointment for me that I
couldn't finish the whole 20 years.
Well, I love that theArmy also recognized.
Your potential as half Iranianthat they could use you in
this, in the Middle East, right?
And so I'm glad that they ablewere to recognize that as well.
(21:40):
And you were able to do that.
What was it like goingback in that capacity?
What did that feel like?
The interesting part was, and, and Inever forget that day when the steam
port one landed that we spent 17 hourson the Blackbird Steel 1 41 from Pul
first base into the Haran airport,when the first Gulf War happened.
(22:02):
And I got off that plane becausethey told us we were going to Turkey.
And they opened the door,and this was August 1st.
Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd,
Oh wow.
and we opened the door andthis rush of hot air hit me.
And as soon as he hit me, a friendof mine that was sitting with
(22:25):
me, he's oh, we're in Turkey.
I'm like, no, we're not.
You knew.
You knew.
I could not forget that.
Desert
heat.
And so when we get off the plane andand get ready, they finally tell us
we're in Saudi Arabia and where ex theywere expecting Iraq to invade Kuwait.
(22:48):
And they pulled us to the right, the edgeof Saudi Iraq, Kuwait corner of the area.
And I never forget, we were standing therewith a bunch of stinger missiles and.
Bunch of our weapons and stuffand general luck at the time was
the, at Airborne Corps commander.
He was in charge and he came up to meand he said, son, see that highway?
(23:13):
I'm like, yes, sir. He said, if theIraqis decide to come into Saudi Arabia,
they're gonna come through here andthere's two battalion tank battalions
sitting at the other end of this highway.
What do you think we're gonna do?
I said, well, sir, we'rejust gonna fight with them.
He said, we don't have enough ammo orpeople here to fight the tank batal.
(23:36):
I said, well, then we just throwrocks at 'em, sir. He said, yes.
The spirit that's.
That's, that's what general's looking for.
She's just some fight.
I just need some fight with my soldiers.
We'll figure it out.
So that's, that's amazing.
How did you feel?
Going back to fight
how did you, how did that make you feel?
(23:58):
And I know that thisis a, this is personal.
This is not who your character is,but when, when you write a character
who's having this duality, and Ithink that is the biggest thing here.
It's survival, it's duality, it's, it'syou, you're straddling two worlds here.
You're American and Iranian.
And what's hard about that is youdon't really get accepted by either,
(24:19):
but your heart belongs to both.
Yeah, and the feeling was okay.
I spent all of this time runningout of Iran, going through Europe,
getting to America, joining the Army.
Now here I'm back in the same desert,fighting the same guys from a different
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Wow.
But even if Iran would've gotteninvolved into that war there is a
(24:40):
big difference with fighting yourpeople and fighting a government.
Yes.
Hmm.
And throughout this whole last few dayswhere all of the attacks on Iran from
Israel and all of this happened, everybodykeep asking me, so what do you think?
I'm like, Israel is notfighting the Iranian people.
They're fighting the Islamic government.
(25:01):
And I was fighting against thatIslamic government before I left Iran.
That's why my execution note was out.
There's a big separation ofdifference between the government
and the military in Iran as well.
So when you hear about the IRGC inIran, which is the kind of like the
Iraqi Republican guards and all ofthat, they're the defenders of the
(25:23):
government, not the defenders of Iran.
All of the heads that Israel tookout, they're all IRGC commanders.
These are the same peoplethat in 2019 and 2022.
Suppressed all of the uprisingof women life freedom in Iran.
They're the same ones that executeda lot of my friends, so I don't
(25:44):
see them as representative of Iran.
I see them as the Islamic government.
Yeah, I, I reallyappreciate that perspective.
'cause that, that very easily gets lostwhen you're just watching the news and
you just, you see the highlights of, hey,bombed, nuclear, facility sites and you
just, it's just the country in general.
But I, I appreciate that perspective,and that's something that I want our
(26:05):
listeners and our, and our viewers to toreally listen and, and to think about.
It's, to your point, it's, it's the,the, the, the government of the, that
aren't really protecting the people.
And I think in, in some other spots,you said it's anywhere from 80 to 90%
of the people are actually pro western.
right.
Yeah.
And they've just been suppressedand I like, I love that because
(26:27):
it's real world experience fromyou this clash of east versus west.
Why do you think peopledon't wanna hear the truth?
Like why do you think people think Iran?
Iran is.
Is all of this, and it's not thesepeople who are being oppressed.
And when you think about women's rights inIran, like I'm telling what rights, right?
Like I'm always like talking aboutthe way women are treated there.
(26:50):
I I was over there 20 years ago, right?
And I made a point to alwayswear my hair down so that you
could see that I was a woman and.
What I learned through my militaryexperience is I actually gave hope
to those Iranian women that thereis a, the westernized culture does
support women's rights and do actuallysee women as being something, being
(27:12):
more than just being suppressed.
And I wanted to do that to givethem hope and I don't know why here
in America that's hard for peopleto see that or understand that.
What do you
Yeah.
So this is a, this is a symptom of theWestern culture because the governments
are representatives of the people.
(27:34):
Yeah.
When your government is a representativeof people, your military is a
representative of your people,so the government and the people,
even though you might be on theleft, you might be on the right.
You might not disagree on a lot of thetopics and the decisions and all of
that, but the government is the people,and the people is the government.
(27:54):
So when you grow up in that type ofa society, you don't understand when
a dictator runs things on their own.
You think the people are supporting 'em.
That's why they're in power.
a lot of people ask me, sowhy doesn't people in Iran
just overthrow the government?
They think it's just like Rich, but it's
Mm-hmm.
(28:14):
Not that simple.
It's, it's a very different wayof looking at things and the way
different, so in, in America, inEurope, in most of these countries,
they feel that the government is theirs.
But in Iran, the governmentis a separate entity.
Yeah, that's, that's a great point.
And that's something again,I think that we try to talk
(28:37):
about through history, right?
When we talk about our history topics,we try to try to be cognizant of the lens
that we are looking at something through.
Whether it's our modern day moralsand values and, and what we know of,
whether it's like a slavery topic or theAmerican Revolution or whatever it is,
we try to be cognizant of our modern daylens that we're looking at it through.
(28:58):
But to your point, this is theAmerican Western lens that we're
looking at other countries through.
So that's, I think that'sa really good point.
And for, for folks who are history fansand, and, and listeners and, and, and
audience of ours, I would, I would.
I would hope that they they makethat connection because I think
that's a really good point.
Yeah, absolutely.
And, and the thing is, and and I'm go,I'm gonna break this topic up because
(29:21):
I feel very passionate about it.
Is, is that when people talk about theIsraeli and Gaza war, and there's a lot
of people that say, oh my God, those poorpeople are dying over there, and Israel
is bombing them and doing this and doingthat, my argument to that is, did you
feel the same way when we bombed Berlin?
(29:43):
Hmm.
Yeah.
destroy the Nazis.
Yep.
There were a lot of innocent people there.
There were a lot ofwomen and children that
Mm-hmm.
and those were the people that,maybe not all of them, but
majority of them elected Hitler.
So the thing is, in every war,unfortunately, there is casualties and
(30:04):
there is civilian casualties, and thereis innocent people that are gonna die.
That doesn't change the fact thatwe have to fight the Just war.
Yeah,
I know, and people love touse World War II and Nazism as
their example for everything.
But they never forgetthe other side of it.
Like I always remind peoplewe didn't come into the war.
For a long time, right?
(30:26):
And we just kinda watched thingshappen for a long time, America, right?
We like to tote ourselves asthe heroes, but like for a long
time we just let that happen.
So imagine if we had the opportunityto bomb areas before they
opened the concentration camps.
Before they did that.
What?
Imagine we had that opportunity, whatwould that have looked like for America?
(30:48):
And people don't like to thinkabout that with the modernization of
everything, but I really loved youranalogy where you talked about your,
your character and your book withthe mirror and the window, right?
So looking at themselves, themselves,their life, who they are and
the window, the opportunity.
(31:09):
Can you explain that analogy for me?
'cause for the, our listeners, becauseI thought that was just insightful about
your character and what they're goingthrough in their personal background
and what they're doing in the worldwith this conflict that's going on.
Yeah the way I the message of thebook it's, it's really about hope.
(31:29):
It's, it's about it's about nomatter what you are going through,
it's not a basis of comparison.
Oh my God, this guy sawa lot of dead bodies.
I've never been in that situationand so my life is not as bad.
That's not the point.
The point is that no matterwhat life through you, you can't
control the external things thatinto you, but you can make the
(31:53):
decision to be a victim or survive.
And it's a personal decision,and what changes your life is
those series of decisions thatyou make throughout your life.
So what I'm, what I was trying to dowith that mirror is look at yourself.
Look at the decisions that you havemade, and use that window to see
(32:15):
what decisions other people havemade and what changed their lives
and what you can change in your ownlife in order to be a better person.
Yeah, I love that because history, I'm abig fan of history doesn't repeat itself.
But it echoes.
And if you can learn from history,if you can look through that window
of history and see what people didin the past and how they acted, it
(32:39):
can give you a good reflection in themirror of how maybe you can use that
knowledge and act and move forward.
And I really loved that.
Yeah, during my time when I waswhen I was in Iran and I'm working
against the government, the Frenchparties, and were my heroes.
yeah.
Yes.
I did a lot of reading around World WarII and really understanding their tactics,
(33:02):
what they did and how they did it, andall of that so that they were my heroes.
And so looking at that window was, ishow they adapted to live on their Nazis
and how that reflected in my life,living under the Islamic government.
Now that, that's cool that you.
And, and that's what I like aboutasking and seeing how people research
(33:24):
their books and stuff like that.
'cause Jenn's working on heron her own historical fiction.
And I, I love hearing abouthow people research because
different eras of history, I.
Have different resources, right?
If you're writing a book about apresident, sometimes a president was,
kept all sorts of journals and you canget primary source or for you, right?
You live through large parts of it,but you're also studying World War ii.
(33:48):
And some of the experiences there.
'cause I, I think you quoted acouple times, Winston Churchill, or
at least attributed him when you'regoing through, hell keep going.
And it seems like kind of like a coretenet of, of you and your character,
of going through these, these highsand lows of, of life and through
these, through these conflicts.
And so it's always interesting to meseeing, and again for our audience,
(34:09):
realizing that when you're researching.
A, a topic or you'reresearching for a book.
It doesn't have to be just onthat area, but you can see, war is
different, but it's also the same,throughout, throughout the years.
And so the experiences and, and whatdifferent societies and cultures
and areas of the world go through.
(34:29):
While there are very different in everyconflict, people are still people.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
So I had a question for you that I,you talk a lot about indoctrination
and lies, and you have the peopleyou know are swayed by politics
and you say sometimes uneducated.
In today's day and age, we evensee educated people who are swayed
(34:51):
by indoctrination and lies and.
It happens in every country.
So what, what have you found is thebest way to kind of like, is it just
getting the stories out there, gettingpeople to just listen instead of talk?
Is it getting people tojust do their own research?
What do you think is thebest way to overcome that?
(35:11):
Indoctrination and lies.
The thing is, is that when we, whenI talk about uneducated, I'm not
talking about school education,
Yeah.
there's a big difference.
You could have a PhD and still be in it.
Yeah, that's that's very true.
Yeah.
So it, it's not about schooleducation, it's about life
(35:33):
education, it's about looking atthe past, looking at the history.
I'm a big, huge history above.
So it's really understandingwhat happened, what are the
things that happened in the past.
Everything from when we look atWorld War I and the causes of
the World War I, why it started.
Everybody likes to talk aboutWorld War ii, but World War I was
(35:54):
actually the starter of World War ii.
So when you look World War I and whathappened there and how Hitler came into
power and influenced big populations basedon what happened in World War I and how
used that to basically, create the Jews asthe enemy of Germany and, and all of that.
(36:15):
So there's a lot of lessons in therefrom the propaganda perspective, from
understanding how he was able to changeminds of people to do all of those things.
And then when it comes toreligion, it's becomes a
completely different picture and.
As Nietzche once said, good peoplewill always do good and bad.
(36:36):
People will always do bad, but for agood person to do bad, it takes religion.
Interesting.
Yep.
that is really interest to understandthe, your own belief system and what you
own Compass in your life is and how you.
Look at things and Yeah, especiallytoday with social media and all of these
(36:59):
things, there's a lot of influenceson you, but do your own research.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I think that's one of the most,one of the most important things we
always try to just mention, right?
We've done, I don't know howmany podcasts now, 150 plus 160,
and when we're talking about.
Fellow authors or the topics we'realways trying to talk about, Hey, this
(37:21):
is, these are great places to start.
If it's primary source, that'sideal, but if you're reading
another author, you gotta make sureyou do your own homework, right?
We talked about Steven Ambrose nottoo long ago, and he did some, some
amazing things for history and forWorld War II in the World War II Museum.
But he had his own weaknesses as well.
And and we always saythat doesn't mean that.
It's not good information.
(37:42):
It just means that you need to makesure that you have the critical
thinking skills enough, right?
The life experience enough to knowHey, if I have a question about this
thing, I shouldn't just always takeit in in blind faith as the truth.
I should, I should do my ownhomework, I should do my own research.
Yeah.
So I grew up in my uncle's bookstore.
My and it's in the book.
(38:03):
My uncle had this really smallbookstore that he repaired all antique
books and, and things like that.
So he was kind like my father.
For most of my time in Iranthat I, I grew up with.
And he, he was a real criticalthinker in, in this process and I
learned so much from him and insideof that bookstore and and all of that.
(38:27):
And he always told me, he said, whenyou read in the book, keep in mind that
that's the perspective of the writer.
And remember that the history isalways written by the victors.
And so there's always another side to
Mm-hmm.
So
a great lesson to learn when you're
you're reading these things.
Yep.
Absolutely.
(38:47):
That's, that's a phenomenal lessonto have built into you at a young age
because it's too easy now, especiallywith the internet and stuff like that.
You just, you Google something and youassume that the top couple hits are true.
That's not the case.
Not not
case.
Go
Now your character in thebook, you, you're gonna, you,
you wanna write more, right?
So where does the storyend for your character?
(39:08):
What time is the story ending and what,what would be the next follow on to it?
So the next book is gonna be finishingRicardo's story basically, and that would
be probably somewhere around 20 18, 20 19.
That's where I'm gonna finish his story.
The third book is gonna be about my dad
(39:29):
Okay.
Oh,
okay.
because he passed away two years ago.
And I spent three weeks before hepassed away with and recorded all of his
stories to write it as the third book.
And he was a Naval intelligent officer.
He was a Navy.
Okay.
All right.
Fell fellow Army, Navy.
Army, Navy, family.
(39:50):
Now, in our research, I saw thatyou've, you've talked about him, right?
He had worked for, was it CIAor was it Navy intelligence?
Yeah, he worked for the CIAquite an, sounds like his story
would be quite interesting.
So can you touch a little bit on, on himand maybe what you'll write in that book?
Yeah.
His story, he was, he was in Vietnamduring the Vietnam War and his ship
(40:13):
docked in Iran at the time in the sixties,and that's where he met my mom and.
He was actually was supposed tobe in Iran, and he was leaving
the Navy and coming to Iran.
And after I found him 35 years later inLas Vegas, I asked him, I said so, because
(40:35):
then I found out that I have a whole bunchof half-sisters and brothers in Egypt, in
Lebanon, in couple other places as well.
And I asked him, I said, sowhy do you have so many women
and families and all of that?
And his answer was havinga family is the best cover.
Oh my gosh.
You know when I read thatabout you and I was talking to
(40:57):
Scott, CIA, I'm like his dad.
Sounds like the typical James Bondfrom the, from the work we have
done with people like your dad.
I. That is the best cover, and I wasn'tsurprised to hear that you had, he had
other families, because that was evenmy experience working with those people
Yeah, but one thing I say about mydad, he wasn't an emotional person.
(41:21):
He wasn't in my life for a very longtime, and but he did work with the
US Army and directed a lot of thethings that I did in the US Army.
He knew exactly where I was, what I wasdoing, and he had complete insight into
everything from the time I left Iran.
Wow.
(41:41):
And I didn't know he was there.
Wow.
That's, that's gotta be, I mean, hhow, what did that feel like when
you found out that he had he, he hadthat insight oversight on your life.
Was that kind of a relief?
Was that like, I, I imagine you musthave had some mixed feelings about that.
I working with specialoperations in the Army.
(42:03):
I understood him.
Ah, okay.
Of course, yeah, you could, you,you had a little bit of insight
already so you could categorize
my sister is completelythe opposite of me.
She's oh my God, he's an idiot.
He's this, he's that.
He didn't take care ofus, he, all of that.
But I completely understood him.
I only completelyunderstood his mentality.
(42:25):
For him, it was country and his job,that's all he cared about in his life.
Everything else was avehicle to get the job done.
Wow.
It's, it sounds likequintessential James bond, right?
That, that unforgivinglove of country, right?
Like it make it, you just, whateverit takes for that love of country and.
(42:48):
I, I'll be honest with you,between, between our listeners
and you, we need people like that.
And so I'm thankful forpeople like your father.
Yes, we do.
We, we need people like that.
Okay.
All right.
Right on.
That's good.
So if, if people want to find yourbook, if they wanna find more about
you and keep track of you and, andlook for your future books, because I
(43:08):
think that, I mean, I, I'm, I'm gonnaprobably order your book because I
just think it sounds so fascinating.
I'm enjoying this, this conversationand I think the future books
will be just as interesting.
Where, where's the best placefor, for folks to, to find you and
So my website pn berg.com.
Okay.
That's, and by the way, I goby Nick because it was easier.
(43:29):
My first name is Pedro.
That's why I named the character Ricardo.
And with the last name, which is Berg,which is sounds Jewish and in in Iran.
And you saw on all those commentsand everything else they're talking
about that he might be Jewish.
I'm not Jewish.
My mom was Raan, actuallyshe was a Muslim.
I grew up as a Zora and,everybody called me the Spanish
(43:54):
Jewish person with the Iranianbackground that never fit anywhere.
So the, the, the book, they canfind it on my website, pburg.com.
The book's available everywhere.
Book sold.
Amazon, Barnes and Noble.
Any of the local bookstores,they can, they can find it there.
We, we really appreciate you joining ustoday and, and telling us, about your,
(44:17):
your life and your, your book and, andall the stuff that's around that because
it is chockfull of not only history, but.
I mean, you're the primary source inthis, for a lot of this stuff, which
is, which is fun for, for us as, as ashistory nerds, well, history nerd and,
and, and aspiring, married to a historynerd right here, as I joke all the time.
(44:38):
But it, it's fun to be able to, I. Learnabout the research you did, but also
that you are part of the primary source,which is, which is pretty unique for us.
Yeah.
And the book is called, Yes.
The book is called Shadows of Teran,and I want people to understand we're
living in the shadows of teran right now.
Yeah.
So if you wanna read something, learnsomething that is based in real history of
(45:02):
what is happening in the world today, thiswould be a great book for you to start.
So we thank you for joining us today.
It was a great conversation.
We are praying for your mom andyour family over there, we hope.
fine right now.
I talked to her yesterday.
She's fine.
Yeah.
And uh.
The, the, the biggest thing is, iscoming to America and living here,
(45:25):
I really appreciate everythingthat this country has done for me.
And, there is no greater place to live.
And so I was talking to somebody, I said,if America changes and goes away the way
it is today, there's nowhere else to go.
That's it.
Yeah, that's so true.
Yeah.
(45:45):
Yeah.
Look at that.
You got this one.
I got this one.
Emotional.
Well, thanks again and again forour watchers and our listeners.
I'll have all the informationfor Nick's book down in the show
notes and the video description.
I'll flash some stuff upon the screen as well.
But thank you again, Nick, forjoining us and and for our audience,
we'll talk to you guys next time.
All right.
So what'd you guys think ofour interview , with Nick?
There was.
(46:06):
More surprises to me, even after I'ddone my research and looked at his other
podcast and interviews he's been on,
, we even found out he was a littlestarstruck talking to us because he's
been following us for a couple years.
But what'd you guys think of that, Jen?
What'd you think of the interview?
I felt like it was so validating aboutwhere America is today, about our
love of country, our love of, serving.
(46:28):
, in, , in the greatestmilitary in the world.
But he really put a lot of perspectiveas someone who grew up through it all and
what's happening today, what he's seeingtoday, I loved his perspective, his
point of view, historical fiction, writingabout what's going on today from a real
life perspective of someone who lived it.
Yeah.
(46:48):
, and it sounds like he's got acouple more books coming out
that are even more interesting.
Like the, the story about his fatherhaving worked for the, the Navy in
the intelligence world, and then theCIA and then he found out he's got.
A bunch of half brothers andsisters all spread throughout
the, throughout the globe.
, it was just a fascinating interview.
Nick was such a, a positive personand I, I just so enjoyed talking
(47:12):
to him as a fellow veteran.
, someone who had served in theArmy for 11 years and would've
done more if he could have.
, and now he's getting this story out there.
It's fun to talk to someonewho is a primary source.
Mm-hmm.
Right?
That is incredibly rare for us.
, I don't know if we couldever really say that.
, and the fact that he not only researchedwhat happened there in the Middle
(47:32):
East, but other wars to help fillout some of the experiences of the
characters in his story, which I justthought was a really interesting way.
I Interesting piece of howauthors do what they do.
Yeah.
And as historians, you, we knowyou love this podcast in, in
this show because of history.
If you wanna learn more aboutwhat's happening in the world
(47:52):
today, this would be a great book.
Yeah.
This would be a great way to start.
Just get, get your feet wet insomeone who's lived through this
Iranian revolution, then throughthe Iranian Iraq war, then
coming to America and going back.
It really is.
A great foundation to where Americais today and all of these different
conflicts that are going on.
, it gives you a great understandingof this from our generation.
(48:17):
So yeah, I really think this was.
A wonderful interview for us to doand , we don't really do a lot of like
current events, but I feel like thisis very important and the history of
it is important for everyone to learn.
Yeah.
So if you want a book with good storythat's well researched, that's accurate
because he took his time making sure itwas accurate and not just biased from
(48:38):
his, from his view, from going through it.
That will help explain what's goingon in the world today and give you
some knowledge and foundation in that.
Check out shadows of Tehran.
Links are in the video descriptionor podcast show notes below.
We hope you enjoyed this, thispodcast, and our interview with Nick,
and we'll talk to you next time.
Thank you.
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