The Chaser: Expedition Untold Ch. 4-7

We unpack our favorite moments and reminisce by the campfire before hitting the old dusty trail on Expedition Untold's western arc.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Welcome to the Tall Tale Tavern,the monthly one shot adventure
TTRPG podcast. I'm your Tavern master and host
Kyle, and I'm here with Scott for our Chaser Episode 4,
chapters 4 through 7 of Expedition Untold, the Western
Arc. Do I Do I still have to be here
if I've been asked to leave the table?

(00:21):
Yeah, I know you have to. Just go this is a solo chaser.
Scott, you are not allowed to behere.
So it's actually only just be going through them, so waiting
for you to leave. So great.
Just kidding, you can actually come back.

(00:41):
Creek, OK. Oh yeah, sorry.
I'll come back in, man. Great.
We're here for the Chaser episode for these for this
Western arc and I've been so excited to record this Chaser
episode. I've been looking forward to it
ever since, since we finished the the Western arc.
Really, I was hot and ready to to start recording the Chaser

(01:01):
episode. That's.
Crazy. There's not much that happens in
this one. It's kind of a filler arc I
think. It's kind of a kind of ends in a
dud, you know, just, you know, starts out strong and just.
But no, this is the this Westernarc was just so much fun to come

(01:23):
up with and to play and to be AIfeel like an audience member
very often on this podcast, likejust myself, like seeing how
you, you guys, how the players play through the the scenarios
and role play and very unexpected, you know, genuine

(01:43):
heartfelt ways. And this, this, these this chunk
of episodes is just a great picture of all, of all of the
goodness that I've experienced in DND and DM ING.
And so it just was an absolutelyfun arc to to play.
Yeah, I mean, this was like pretty much the perfect arc.

(02:05):
I feel like for the podcast, it's exactly what you're hoping
for when you start AD and D podcast.
You know, there's there's a lot of laughs, there's a lot of
emotion, there's a lot of action.
It all kind of worked and just agreat group of players,
everybody really bringing their all, you know?
Yes, yeah, yeah. So I thought I'd start by

(02:26):
talking about the inspiration and how this arc kind of
happened, you know, or, or kind of what the initial thoughts
were. The initial initially when I was
thinking about where the playerswould go after Zoonopia, you
know, I wanted to, we have so many different stories with all

(02:47):
these different settings. It just felt right to go
straight into like a Western setting, like right away, like
just just take the characters from their like general fantasy
world and put them, you know, somewhere crazy.
And so Western arc was like Bones's Western world was like
top of the list for me to go andexplore.

(03:08):
And I think that's, I think that's perfect for the
characters too, because it does feel like, OK, it's a, it's a,
it's a little different than theworld that you know, but it's
not like unimaginably different from the world that, you know,
rather book club characters. You know, you can picture a
horse and you can kind of get the idea of a gun.
And that's basically the West. And so, so initially it was OK,

(03:36):
I want to, I want to do this. I want to talk to Bones because
I don't, I have, don't have a whole lot of experience with
westerns in general. You know, the Maleficent 7 or
Magnificent 7. The movie was probably the
first, well, not the first Western that I watched, but like
one that I actually. Well, let's not you've.

(03:56):
Seen. There's You have to count 3
Amigos Kyle, which is essentially the same movie, yes.
So I've seen three amigos, I've seen True Grit, the remake,
obviously American Tail, seen that.
Obviously couple of them. But but yeah, it was it was

(04:19):
great because I reached out to Bones.
I was like, hey, I've got this idea for, for this is what the
campaigns, this is what we're doing in the campaign and the
players are going through old stories.
I want to go to the Western world.
I was like, I need some like homework or something, you know,
I need to I because I don't knowanything.

(04:40):
You ask Bones for some Western movie recommendations.
You're going to get answers. Yes, exactly.
I was like, here's what I'm thinking.
I'm thinking we bring back, you know, I'll, I'll talk to, you
know, Charlie and Swain and bring them back as as players.
And then I was like, in general,I'm thinking they played through
the an an episode and then like the second episode bring you in

(05:02):
as like the secret bad guy villain that shows up at the
end. That was the initial like intent
kind of pitch a little bit to bones, like have him come in as
an NPC eventually for this, for this at the end of.
And I was like, I think a train thing would be fun.
You know, I've, I've always kindof wanted to do some sort of
train encounter. And so that was like the basics.

(05:24):
And so I I texted him that and he was like, well, 310 to Yuma
just came out of Netflix and I've watched it three times this
week. So maybe we could do that.
There is basically that. And then so I was like, OK,
sweet. I put it on that night and
watched the movie and loved the movie and was just like this,
this just makes sense and hit. And he was like, yeah, I could,

(05:47):
you know, be a villain that's like present along with the
party. It adds like some tension and
for this arc it just made sense to do another movie because the
first one was about a movie, youknow?
And it's perfect too, because they're both based on very like
modern, I mean, modern Westerns in that Magnificent 7 obviously

(06:08):
exists in earlier forms, but Bones was very much basing it on
like the most recent version of the movie.
And I like that you, they're based both on like these kind of
high modern action movies, you know, like it it, it made it so
that the feeling of the Western environment was sort of

(06:30):
maintained, I guess between the original Maleficent 7 and now
the 2:59 to paradise arc, whatever.
We want to call it yeah, 259 to paradise.
Yeah, the. I think 310 of you may have been
a book at first. I think there's also an older
movie of 310 to Yuma. I think that both things we've

(06:51):
done have been based on the remakes.
Yeah, I I knew that there's a movie As for some reason this in
the back of my head there's somesort of book it came from.
There probably is, I don't know,I don't read.
Yeah, we don't read. We just play characters in book
clubs. I don't play a character in book
club. You play a character in a book

(07:12):
club, but yeah, but yeah, that'sbasically how the the story was
was that was the main motivationand.
Of course, Bones engineers a scenario where he gets to play
the the charming villain the whole time, you know?
Yes, which he did a great job atand it really felt like he, he

(07:36):
loves to be the heel. You know, he, I feel like he
just loves to get that satisfaction of being the, of
being the bad guy. And even though he even brought
up when we were recording, like they say, don't have people with
like opposite intentions in the DND campaign because it'll be
like annoying to play. But he's so willing to take
everybody's shit if it means he gets to give a little.

(07:57):
Shit back. Yes, exactly and and bones being
at a very experienced in season DM who I know I can fully trust
him to play a character like that and know that he is a you
know, at rooks core is part of the plot device and sort of is
this NPC character. You know, that that is there to

(08:21):
drive the plot forward and also to not be annoying and, and
like, we're all just having fun playing D&D together, you know,
versus someone who's could take it too seriously or something or
decide they're going to murder like one of the main characters,
right? Like it's been awesome.
It's. Like it's like didn't great to
kill Mt row. Bones goes rogue and ruins the

(08:42):
podcast. Ruins the story expedition
untold because we don't finish the story because it's it's
untold because. Speaking of characters getting
killed, though, at what point did you decide that Whiskey
Waltz was going to die? And also, I just have to say
before you answer, I love that the difference in how people

(09:03):
receive ill like will onto theircharacters, right?
It's Becca's like Kyle inconvenienced to you.
I hate him. I'm going to beat him up.
Kyle's like, I'm going to kill my own character.
Whiskey Waltz was destined to die.
I I wanted him dead so bad in this episode.

(09:24):
I say it like that because because I wanted to create.
I spent I spent a lot of time trying to create some really
good villains in this one. But what I wanted was whiskey
waltz to 1st off for me to be able to play him and do my dream
of having six guys shoot two shots at him and I get to roll

(09:45):
12 D 20s at disadvantage to see which ones hit him as he as he
does the dodge action to to kindof start off that initiative
order and have it be fairly balanced.
So it didn't the first person who stepped out didn't get
immediately shot by all these, you know, outlaws.
That was like, I got to like live that moment that.

(10:07):
So it's great as Adm when you can just kind of like as a plot
device, just kind of put that inthere and then like get to get
to do something fun with the character.
But I wanted the bad guy to killhim.
I wanted I wanted Whiskey, the character that I love to play.
I wanted a villain to take him out and immediately cause some,

(10:30):
you know, an elicit an emotionalresponse and also a respect for
someone who can kill a characterwhose whole thing is can that
they can dodge bullets and try to catch them.
Right. So initially that was really
just going to be a narration thing.
Like I was just, it was in therelike Rook steps out and there's

(10:51):
a gun that comes out and writingWhiskey walls his head and pow,
he's dead. And, and bones is like, well, we
could Bones is like, well, we could like do that.
I was like, I was like thinking in my head, if we do this, then
it's not going to work. I'm like, it's if we, if we, if
we start rolling dice, then whiskey's going to be alive.
And then I'm going to have to play figure out what to do with
him after I have all these otherNPCS that are coming along on

(11:14):
this journey. And then Whiskey will have to
get dysentery or something and stay back, you know, something
like that. Because just wasn't, wasn't
excited about having him join itwith his like 3 attacks that he
can do four with Florian blows with his key points.
It's a lot to like keep track ofa player character like that.

(11:37):
And so, so that was initially, Iwas initially was like, OK, he's
going to, he's just going to take one to the head and that's
going to be it. And Bones like, well, we could,
we could play, we could basically, I think Bones wanted
to do it and stuff, right? And also be able to do it with

(11:57):
his character build, which was, you know, we, we made him
together to, I say together. But really it was, you know,
basically I said, hey, start at level 10, which would be two
levels higher than Bally, Jack and Crumb, 3 levels higher than
you 2 because you guys were level 7.
No, I don't know. We were only level 5, weren't

(12:19):
we, when we came into this Level6?
I think we're level 6 in the Maleficent 7 because I.
Just started five, yeah, becauseyou played through Zenobia's
level 5 and then level 6. So you guys are level 6 Crumb
and Mellie Jack I had them levelup to 8 because in the original
they were seven. I still wanted them to feel

(12:39):
larger than life heroes to you. 2 We haven't talked to have a
little. We're going to have to like, I
don't know, rewind back. There's so too much to cover in
this chaser. I don't even know the order to
go in. Right.
I'm right now just trying to focus on the bones moment for a
second. All right, getting sidetracked a
little bit, but his build was hewas level 10.

(13:00):
And then we added some abilitiesto make it so to make it fit
Rook or, or Ben Wade's characterfrom the movie, where Ben Wade
can get the jump on people like really easily, right?
Like if if you look away for a second and he wants to take the
opportunity, you're probably dead.
And that was the that was the main idea with Rook.

(13:23):
How do we build that? And so so Bones's build was
basically 2 levels of fighter, 8levels of bladesinger wizard and
having the ability to use a Marshall ranged weapon instead
of a melee weapon as his gun with the Bladesinger feet.

(13:44):
And then I gave him, I was like,here take the assassinate
feature from assassin rogue, which means you have advantage
on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a
turn in combat yet. In addition, any hit you score
against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
So that was like rooks whole thing.
If he can get the jump on somebody and surprise them then

(14:05):
he can dish out a ton of damage.And then bones is bones is
because he's bones is just a Wizard of D&D rules and how
things interact in general. Just knew he needed like silvery
barbs and shield on him and likecounter spell to be able to stop
some of these abilities coming in so that he could actually do

(14:26):
it, you know? Yeah, I think it was smart to
have him do it and not narrate it anyway, because if you just
narrated it, it would have really felt, I wouldn't have
felt nearly as invested as a player in like Rook coming to
Justice or whatever, you know, like.
Yeah, it was definitely a good move, a move that I didn't know
how to do, but he did so well. That was great to to like seven

(14:50):
be like, I think we can do this.And then and then we figured out
a way to to have the to have it be an exciting moment where you
tried to use like silvery barbs on him and stuff like it.
Like it was it was an attempt, it was attempted to stop him.
And there was the the one thing he didn't account for, which
were some of these, some of the abilities from Valley Jack that

(15:15):
that I'm forgetting what they were.
Well, there was Valley Jack alsotried to impose some sort of
disadvantage on him with his like by banging his rail, but
that didn't work. And then in a in a later
episode, I used the poker chip from Valley Jack to stop him
from attacking somebody because that is a it's like I enter a

(15:39):
prophetic state. It's not a spell that could be
counterspelled, which I could have done, I think in the first
episode, But in my head I just write it off as interior.
Wouldn't that wouldn't be as instinct.
His his first thought, you know,I had activated that coin.
But Silvery barbs is what he's used to using.

(16:00):
So that was all that we bones that I came up with the before
the first episode. You know, this is in my head.
We're still part of the inspiration of this recording,
you know, of how to how to make this happen.
That's where my brain is AT and trying to organize how to get,
you know, get through all of this goodness in this in this

(16:22):
arc. But it turned out so perfect,
you know, so perfect. Having a mentor was such a fun
surprise. You tried your best to like,
cover your tracks or whatever with some lame ass story about
how you needed a second computeropen in the chat or whatever.

(16:45):
Though. I mean, it only worked because I
was like, I don't know what the fuck he's talking about.
I don't care. Like I don't even look at who's
in. If you hadn't said anything, I
wouldn't even have noticed that there was another person.
I should have found the well I Iwanted.
I didn't know how, I don't know how.
I still don't know how it works on your end.
But yeah, I know at some point, at some level, you have to
record the video. And I didn't want to miss

(17:06):
someone joining the chat. It wasn't there before.
But yeah, that was I should findthe receipts from me and Bones
this conversation because we Bones are trying to do research.
Like how can you, how can you like watch and listen while the
calls going on? There's no way to to do that
sneakily. There's just, it's impossible.

(17:27):
So I was like, I was like, I think I have, I think I have the
right way. I'm going to tell them that I
have my other computer, like setup with the video stream with
the different discord and and have it act like I'm doing going
to be doing something stupid with like putting on a villain
hat or something. And you know, like that's where
their brain might go with what is Kyle trying to pull?

(17:50):
This is an extra and I have the computer there to show you like
I got discord up. You know what this is like.
I'm going to Join Now and. This is Kyle.
This is just the exact same scenario as back when we were
Little Thieves and Show Quad fire and we stole the we stole
the caution wet floor sign by you, allegedly, allegedly by

(18:10):
allegedly shoving it up your coat and having you come out of
the bathroom holding on to the drawstrings to hold it in place
and pretending that you were flying a jetpack.
What you've done is you've weaponized the fact that
everybody's just like, yeah, sure, whatever.
He's being fucking weird like normal.
You've you've done it again. I've done it again.
I love that jetpack move. If it was anybody else, people

(18:35):
would be like, why are you suddenly pretending you have a
jetpack? But because it's you, people are
like, Oh yeah, Kyle's pretendinghe's a jetpack that makes.
Sense Kyle's a moron, he does this stuff.
I was shooting people like as I was getting on the bus with the
back turn because the entire back of my coat was a big giant
rectangle. Like, you could obviously tell

(18:55):
something was shoved up there, but not if I was facing forward.
Oh, man. Allegedly.
Allegedly. But yeah, it was the.
So yeah, the start. We'll go through Episode 4,
start off with Episode 4. Chapter 4.

(19:19):
Chapter 4 I should say. These are chapters.
This is a book we are readers. Yeah, we read.
I was really excited to debut Jeb and Joe.
Just a couple of dumb Dragonborn.
Characters Jeb and Joe were great and I love that.
I mean, we all loved them immediately I feel like.

(19:39):
So the betrayal was really felt.I I truly didn't.
I guess he anticipate that we were we were.
I should have, I suppose, thought, well, why are there why
are these characters here if notto betray us?
Right. I just was like, well, Kyle
needs some way to introduce us to what's going on and he
doesn't. He won't have Valley Jack and
crumb at the end of Zoonopia, like right to to just have us be

(20:05):
there. So he's going to need an NPC.
So these guys are probably just fun silly NPCS that'll
disappear. Nope, Nope.
And it was I I felt so sneaky too, because like the first
thing like Jeb is like, we'll we'll we'll go with you, but you
ain't spies. Are you like he like to disarm
you. He accused you of being spies in

(20:26):
that first little blurb. And I was genuinely concerned
that you guys would figure out that we were playing the plot of
310 to Yuma just because the entire first beginning the the
entire the entire first episode basically is not for not once
again in town. Then that's a little bit
different, but. But the whole setup before we

(20:48):
find the the wagon is straight out of it.
You mean like, yeah. The guy shows up, says, oh, Ben
Wade's got this guy, you know, dead, half dead.
You got to go save him. Everybody's got to go.
Then the town leaves and then then wade like takes over the
town. You were perfectly in luck in
that I don't think any of us hadseen the movie so.

(21:10):
Yeah, it was. And then all of us watched him
and were like, Oh yeah, that is really obvious.
You know, if anybody had seen that, they would know.
Did you have any notes on the onchapter 4?
Anything specific that you wanted to bring up?
Well, specifically, I mean, I was just, I just remember I was
so excited to get Valley Jack and Crumb back, like more than

(21:32):
anything. Me too.
Yeah, I just, I when we ended Chapter 3, I immediately was
excited, realized we were in theWestern, we were going to get to
see them and I just loved right away.
Imtiro's relationship to Valley Jack was great.
And then seeing them, I guess both be a little different as

(21:54):
some time had passed. Crum a little more comfortable
in the world. I feel like, you know, in his
own odd way. And then Valley Jack sort of in
a almost like a low. I don't know how else to.
In an uncomfortable, you know, comfortable Valley, Jack very
uncomfortable with his role as sheriff.

(22:15):
Yeah, because that was my my first.
We talked a little bit in the Discord today.
Charlie mentioned some of that for Valley Jack, like, coming to
terms with that. And even when the first record
ended, like, the first thing I messaged back was like, OK,
well, we have to help Valley Jack get his groove back because
he shouldn't be this, like, bureaucratic sheriff in this
town. That's not who Valley Jack is.

(22:38):
Yeah, it was coming through. Having Charlie as a player, such
a a joy. I mean, it was like it was so
cool because I really didn't talk to him much about Valley
Jack's character before we recorded basically, I say here's
here's how the original story changed in this in this chapter

(23:00):
is very similar. Ella McCoy just wanted to play
poker with you guys. Wanted to play poker with you
guys in the beginning, which I didn't really end up explaining
throughout the throughout this, but I guess I mentioned that,
but well, I, I mentioned it, butyeah, that, but we'll get to it
at the end, I think. But the but that basically led

(23:23):
to her being alive. Valley Jack becoming sheriff of
the town, kind of etcetera, etcetera.
And it really like, and then like seeing how he was reacting
to I was like, oh, like that wasa moment for me even like, oh,
like, yeah, Valley Jack is like struggling through this.
Like this is not easy for for this guy.

(23:44):
It was just great to see Charliejust approach the the character
and the scenarios just so earnestly.
Like just such an earnest character, you know?
Oh yeah, and that's I mean, I that's why I immediately thought
like a valley Jack is somebody that interior would love is
because he is a very earnest andjust like openly heroic person

(24:07):
normally, right. Like I, I love a character that
isn't, doesn't have any, I don'tknow, ironic layers caked on
them or any like attempt to makethem edgy or whatever.
They're just like 100% a good person and it's just really fun
to see them now in this environment that doesn't always

(24:30):
let them be the person they wantto be.
And it yeah. And so Valley Jack, who had, you
know, saved Ella or not saved him, saved Ella, but they just
didn't kill Ella because they caught her, took her to justice,
created this, you know, help build this prison to keep her

(24:51):
and, you know, really high-ranking criminals in and
then kind of getting tied up in law enforcement that way and
becoming the sheriff of the town.
Do you know it's just a lot different than like what
probably happened after the events of Morphison 7 with
Valley Jack? Well, you know that that pretty
clear that it seems like that's probably much different than

(25:14):
what would have happened afterwards if it was all just
nice and clean and everything was kind of cleaned up at the
end. Yeah, with everybody dying.
But but yeah, the yeah, the restof the episode of chapter 4,
basically my only other note wasit my the I was excited for the

(25:36):
town fight because my idea for it or the vibe I wanted to get
was just like kind of bullets flying everywhere, just kind of
a chaotic town fight. And it was a It was a pretty
fun. I do love a shootout role in
town. It was a good a good shootout
vibe. The only other thing that I
think we really need to mention is Enith's Enith, Edith, Edith's

(25:59):
soup. I prefer getting which ones her
and her sister. Yeah, and the real controversy
of me accidentally making the group not trust him, Tiro,
because he was too good at lyingabout how good he thought the.
How good the soup was. Yeah, he's like, way too good at
lying about the soup. And I think my only other note

(26:20):
is that Chrome has my favorite line of the episode, which is
when he yells out Jeb I'll fucking kill you.
Namby killed both of them I think with her.
Think so? Yeah, Namby has killed a lot of
people now. She's turning, slowly turning
into the rabbit from. Monty Python.
Monty Python, Yes. Yeah.

(26:44):
That that fight. I was going to just, I was just
going to say something, but I lost it.
Who knows? Who knows what I was going to
say? It's gone.
It's completely gone. Gone forever?
Well, one thing we can say aboutit is we brought that Gatling
gun back. That's what I was going to bring
up. That moment was so funny to me.
Just because like, you know, I always think when I'm writing
these things, when I'm coming upwith encounters, I'm like, these

(27:04):
players are, they're always, always going to surprise me.
Like half the time it's Scott, you know, half the time it's
Scott surprising me. And, and I was like the the
Gatlin gun, I know they're goingto try and bring it with, with
them, but it's going to be destroyed.
Like that's it. That's what's going on in my
mind. Like they're not going to be
able to take it with them. It's destroyed.
And then you're like, hey, what's up with the, with the

(27:24):
carriage with the Gatlin gun on?Oh yeah, It's like totally
destroyed wheels totally broken.And you're like, I can make a
wheel. I just like if you had said
anything else, if it had just been like, oh, it's like split
in half, you know, or something,but.
Right, but. Oh, a wheel.
Well that's here's this exact scenario that I've been dreaming
of for my character since I madethem to 1st.
Like 2 examples I had in my headof reading the College of

(27:49):
creation Bard was well if there's ever a broken wagon I
can pretend like to find one behind a Bush if we need a wheel
and then lo and. Behold, lo and behold, there it
is, and Valley Jack's right there to.
The world's greatest Carpenter just happens to.
Be there, right there. There's no way you can get out
of it. We had to pause because like,
OK, hold on. I got to come up with what the

(28:10):
Gatlin gun does, you know, because I don't have any, I
don't have a weapon for that, you know, loaded up and it
didn't come with up with that before.
So we took like a 5 minute breakas I'm like trying to come up
with what what a good amount of damage and what a what a GAT a
Gatlin gun would actually look like, you know, for a weapon.

(28:32):
So, so funny. There's just cracked me up.
I was so happy. I was thrilled.
I was too, honestly it's so fun when when it's like you get to
try and break an account encounter.
Just it just changes wildly fromwhat I was expecting.
The end of the episode is when the Marshalls come in.
Oh yeah. Marshall Buckworth and Marshall

(28:53):
Tannenbaum and couple good guys,right?
Couple nice guys. You know, in the end, the sure,
yeah, we all loved them, the worst NPC's ever.
And I just immediately, we were all like, so suspicious of them
now because you had made us not suspicious of Jeb and Joe,

(29:16):
right? So then now when there's new
NPCS, we're all so worried aboutthem being like, kind of mean to
us. Meanwhile, we've got Rook, who
just murdered somebody. Rook, who just murdered somebody
and you guys are like my poor baby, baby Rook.
This guy just called me, you know, a name, and he's the worst
person who's ever existed to thecall me Fireboy.

(29:38):
I did not like being called Fireboy by the.
Buckwords like calling Buckworthwas cocky.
He's a yeah, he he was the in mymind, he is just the, the, the
first guy, the guy that gets forked by by Wade in the movie
like that. It's that that that Marshall or

(30:02):
whatever. And he is the worst one, so that
makes sense. And he's the guy.
When he came on screen, I was like, I know him from Lost and I
hated him and Lost and I hated him.
And 3:10 to Yuma and hate, you know, hated him in this one.
I was, I was really, I, I spent a lot of time trying to figure
out these guys 'cause my, my, mymotivation, I was trying to

(30:27):
think of, I start off by trying to think of like, what's the
worst feeling in, in DND? Like just the worst feeling that
you have if when you're playing Dungeons and Dragons and what I
landed on is what I think the worst feeling in D&D is, is when
you feel like you don't have anyplayer agency.
When you feel like, like the DM is like railroading or it's just

(30:50):
like, I want to do this to my character.
No, your character like that, that wouldn't happen.
Or you feel like your decisions don't matter and like, you know,
you feel like AD Ms. like changing things one way or the
other and you don't have any agency.
So like, how do I take that feeling and put it into a
character? I was like these what if these
Marshalls, you know, they're they're just in charge and they

(31:13):
just refuse to let anybody do anything that's outside of of
what they want to do. And in order to do something
different as a player, you guys had to would have had to do
something like extreme to reallycounteract that, right?
Like if you wanted to not go through the Calabasa crevasse,
you were going to have to do something significant to

(31:33):
convince Tannenbaum and Buckworth to not go that
direction. And I think that works out
doubly in your favor in that because we're recording for a
podcast, not when it's clear that it's like, oh, here's here,
we're being sort of guided to gothrough this crevasse.
It feels like there's sort of a narrative going on.

(31:54):
I feel like we're less likely topush against them too, right?
Like, otherwise we might have been, if it, if we weren't
recording a podcast that needs to end at a certain point, we
might have just been like, OK, well, we'll just take the extra
time and go around the crevasse.And if these guys are Dicks
about it, we'll just like tie them up, you know, like cares.
And Becca asked one of the chaser questions was did I have

(32:17):
a plan if if you pushed about not going to the crevasse, I
did. I had basically like encounters
lined up and it would have changed things.
But yeah, there there was a, there was a plan for going that
direction, but. And we might not have gotten the

(32:38):
greatest crit. The greatest crit of all time?
Yes. Well, she would have used that
gun at some point and she would have crit.
On Oh yeah, you're right, she absolutely would have.
She probably would have like used it and blown the train in
half to separate it or somethingin the last episode.
Yes, Yep to Yep to derail. Yeah.

(32:59):
The train, yeah. So they were a lot of fun.
It was, it was fun for me to to roll to see if Buckworth was
going to catch that vaccine every time he flicked it up in
the air to catch it. You know, I was going to if it
was a four less on the die, thenhe was going to drop it and and.
I think we would have killed himif he did that.

(33:21):
Like, I really think if he had broken one of the 10 vials that
there are 10 of them, yeah. We need to keep.
In mind we we just would have let Rook kill him at least like
because I feel like that's his son's vaccine.
Maybe that's enough for him to finally just like decide to make
a move. And I I'm certainly not silvery
barbs ING it at that point. Right.

(33:46):
Yeah, that's the end, end of Chapter 4.
And then Chapter 5 immediately started with Valley Jack staying
up all night for to kind of monitor the Rook and Buckworth
situation. And definitely a move that had a
lot of implications that you guys didn't know about, but I

(34:10):
will talk about here because they're fun.
So essentially during Buckworth's shift of watching
Rook that night, which could have happened by its own, you
know, if you guys just decided to not sleep in that room or
whatever, then this was just going to happen at some point.
But Bones is going to roll like a deception.

(34:31):
I was just going to have him roll for deception for this to
happen. And then if Valley Jack was in
the room and like sleeping at that point, he's going to wake
up to to Rook having Buckworth against the bars, being choked
on his own bandana and having two death saves.

(34:52):
And Valley Jack was going to wake up and be able to have an
action to maybe stop this from happening.
Where? Where?
The Rook had. And I brought him close and then
like was strangling him up against the bars.
Was excited for that moment, butalso it was great to like just
not have that happen and have Valley Jack just decide no, I'm
staying up all night to watch this.

(35:14):
Perfectly. Not getting a long rest, yeah,
perfectly in character, not getting a long rest, not
getting, you know, getting a level of getting a level of
exhaustion from that, you know, is a significant choice to make.
Yeah. But a really, Yeah, really cool
moment there. That was like the one moment

(35:35):
that we had that I had told Bones about, like this Will, how
do you feel about that? And that's kind of what we came
up, came up with for a chance where he was maybe going to have
a moment with Buckworth. And if nobody was in the room,
then it was probably just going.It was just going to be that you
woke up and Buckworth, Buckworthwas dead on the floor.

(35:56):
It's a real shame that that didn't happen just so we would
have had one less annoying asshole.
With us the whole time, yeah. And a lot of this was kind of
designed to have some deaths, but.
But D&D? Is that's why I wish so badly we
had saved Whiskey Waltz, becauseI know you didn't want all these
NPCS like that. You had to keep track of the

(36:18):
whole. Time you wish that there was
another. One, I wish we could have made
it even more. We should have invited Edith to
come along or something, you know?
Bring everybody, what do you what have you got down for
episode for Chapter 5? Chapter 5 not much sticks out in
my mind from 5:00 as much because I feel like 5 is is

(36:41):
where we gained an episode. I've right like.
Lot of lot of lot of chatting, yeah.
All good like role play and and chatting and stuff.
Like we mourn whiskey waltz sortof in the beginning we had a
moment of tension between Emteroand Hugh and Namby, like at bed

(37:03):
when I did not want to talk about Emtero's dead mom.
So I calm emotioned them and other than that just yeah, a lot
of well. Five did.
Have the one thing I was most looking forward to and five is
the speak with dead with the with the desiccated cactus or

(37:26):
body. I don't know what you call him,
the Creek, the. Freak dehydrated you, you soaked
him and made his dreams come true.
Is is what happened? Because I got, I had only just
because we had levelled up afterZoonopi, I took the I was like
rearranging spells because you can swap out a couple when you

(37:46):
level up. And I was like, man, I'm going
to take Speak with Dead. Part of me wanted to do it to
Whiskey Waltz because I just thought it would be fun to play
out like one last scene with himwhere you got to play him, but
you instead we sort of had that moment of his will and testament
to fill that in. I I do like that we signed his

(38:07):
his ass or whatever filled. It in.
And then so I was very excited to use it on the corpse when we
found that corpse. Another thing that I wasn't, you
know, think, you know, I didn't didn't expect that to happen.
I was just like, oh, let's get some foreshadowing in here.
There's a a body out there that's that's dehydrated and

(38:28):
looks all shriveled up and and gross.
And that Namby gets to see it because she had her passive
perception is ridiculous. And then it was like, oh, let's
go talk to him. Like, oh, oh, OK, we're going to
talk to him. And it was, yeah, so funny and.
That's what made us and. It gave me, oh, go ahead.
I was just. Saying that's what really made
us look like freaks in the eyes of Levi Brooke.

(38:50):
I feel like without our maybe one of the funnier moments is
just the image of him and Hugh watching while Valley, Jack
Namby and I stuff a body into a cactus.
And just shrug. Yeah, just whatever.
Yeah, it was, yeah. That, that the whole part
cracked me up. But it was fun to like to also.

(39:13):
Then it gave you a little bit more of like, hey, pay the toll.
Like this guy's like pay the toll.
Yeah, like you got to pay the toll.
We really tried to to, to make it work.
I don't know. I don't think that we were
getting out of it with Tannenbaum being with us, it
seems. He's such an ass, you know,
like, just like and, and he didn't, I mean, he didn't know.

(39:36):
He thought he was, you know, just going to give some pour
some of the water out in the ground and then have to like
throw it to the throw it to them.
He was sort of on board with it,but it's sort of made the
encounter like happened right then and there, Like it was like
water splashes the ground cactusdragon is wakes up to get the
water like and it just starts, you know, attacking because

(39:59):
that's that's the whole deal. But it was definitely clear when
we recorded that I I could, I could tell by how much stuff was
in the episode. That feels like we were meant to
get to that maybe earlier fight it all in one episode.
But we just love to get sidetracked with role play stuff
instead. But it was great, you know, I
didn't, didn't want to limit it doing a, a campaign for this

(40:22):
podcast. You know, I I went into it and
saying, OK, I'm not going to tryand shove things along, you
know, try to treat this as much as a real, you know, actual
place field, make it feel like we're sitting around a table
playing as much as I can. And so didn't want to shove
things along, especially when the role play was so good.

(40:43):
And it's just like, yeah, you know, it was just, it's just all
great. And there's a lot that it's a
lot that happens in this campaign and not a whole lot of
time for characters to sit down and like process what's going
on, you know? And so it's like we need some of
those moments. And then yeah, the that's all I
got for. It's always, it's always a good

(41:05):
dramatic ending to an episode tohave a dragon appear at the at
the end of it. I was stoked for that got the,
the mini it printed out and thatthat cactus dragon STL file and
the the stat block was from critical crafting.
You know, Dylan Olney's company that we that he's been on the

(41:26):
podcast before. Christopher himself.
Christopher himself yeah use that SAP lock edit it.
You know I made it my own to fitthe encounter but really fun.
I just I love I love the cactus dragon when that was released
and one of and they're like western.

(41:47):
They're they're like Western month document thought it was a
really cool creature. As soon as I read about it, I
was like I got to use this somehow, someway in the future
and it was a whole lot of fun. But that's chapter 6, the cactus
dragon fight. Yes, the cactus clash at
Calabasa Crevasse. Scott, we'll read your thoughts

(42:08):
on fighting a dragon and Dungeons and Dragons.
I know you've done it before. When did I do it before?
Oh well, I guess in the Christmas 1.
Is that the only other time though?
Yes, I think so. I think we played most of our
DND if not all DND together. Almost all.
Almost all all my dragon encounters, at least I think

(42:29):
you've been present for and other times maybe we've, we've
been near one, but I don't thinkI've fought one other than the
Christmas one and this time. And you know what?
I like this one a lot more than the first one because I only had
to do it once. The first one was, oh, whoops.
The encounter Dragons are like deceptively complex to me.

(42:52):
You know, maybe everyone's else's, like they're simple, but
I think they're, they're deceptively complex because of
their fly speed, their optimal way of playing a dragon, what
they can do, blah, blah, blah. But yeah, I was pretty happy
with this fight. And I think we could jump to
the, the the moment that that was the moment from the episode,

(43:15):
which was Becca deciding I'm going to use this, this special
gun, the attachment on the special gun that I don't know
what it's going to do, but I'm going to put it up against the
the dragon and shoot and roll a natural 20 on that.
When I have created this weapon,which is until that moment I
didn't realize my error of creating a weapon that rolls
what 5 dice or whatever is the damage dice and having and

(43:40):
giving it to the to to the croakgoat Becca who could grit and I
was just so shocked at that moment just you blown away.
Definitely. You're most shocked The D20
reaction I would say. Yes, yeah, it was insane that
that she rolls a Nat 20 on this thing that does AD 4D6D8D10D12

(44:03):
damage to the shrapnel gun, you know.
Barrel. It was right when things were
getting maybe a little bit hairy, a little bit more dire,
right like. Right.
Yes. Namby had been downed at this
point and Rook was on the loose.You know, like.
Things might have. Just gotten way worse if it
didn't end that turn. Yeah, and it but it wouldn't

(44:25):
have like the damage probably unless you rolled really well, I
guess. I think it may have died.
It wouldn't have taken out the cactus dragon in one hit.
Yeah, it it would. There would have been another
round at least with the cactus dragon, you know, And instead it
was blown to smithereens and andthe and that part was over.

(44:49):
Amazing, incredible moment. You know, I think about it often
of. Dice rolls at night.
You lay in bed and you curse Becca, and you think about it
all. Poor boy, I look at my cactus
dragon mini in my room. My poor boy got blasted to
smithereens by my own doing. So Becca's no longer going to

(45:11):
get magic items that give you her extra dice to roll.
That's just that. Seems smart.
Don't give her any weapons, anything that can be crit.
Just don't let her have it, you know?
Yeah, yes. But I, I was really, yeah.
I was happy with that fight. I thought it was really fun to
run that cactus dragon. Really.
I thought it was a cool encounter too, because I did

(45:31):
like that it started with like Rook inside of the wagon, you
know, and having to like wait till things got like really
chaotic and then he's like, and my handcuffs are off and I'm
going to just head on out and grab my gun.
Like I really liked how that allwent.
And I liked that we had the little moment of the ball and

(45:52):
chain I had created for him disappearing because we've been
out for a while. So just extra.
Oh well, that's lucky for me. Just rooks just stumbling.
Around just lucky. And then I like that I I can't
even remember who he was. It was that he was going to
shoot one of the Marshalls. Maybe that I and I did stop him
this time using. The that was my.

(46:14):
This is Yeah, this is actually my favorite moment from the from
the episode was when you silverybarbs him, I think is what you
ended up doing right? Or use the coin.
I use the coin because I knew hecouldn't counterspell the coin
because I had already been counterspelled by him in the
Whiskey Waltz episode. Was this to shoot or was this

(46:36):
the secret spell that he was doing?
My favorite moment that I was referencing was when he casted
tried to cast the secret spell on on on Tannenbaum.
And I love the way he described it to where where Rook was like
coming around to being part of aplan, like they were going to
make an agreement. And then Tannenbaum was just

(46:57):
like, you know, my ass or something like that.
And then and you and he just says this is like Rook like was
totally on board. And then you just see him like
change his demeanor completely and goes to cast the spell on
him. And then and then you stepped in
to see that and. I think what I did was use the

(47:20):
coin to give somebody, to give either disadvantage or advantage
to somebody. So if it was that the Marshall
had to roll, then I maybe gave him advantage.
It was Marshall had to roll because I did the rolls for it
and it was gave him advantage onthe saving throw.
Yeah. He must have whipped it maybe
the first time and then I probably used the coin because
the point is that I can use the reaction to give somebody

(47:42):
advantage if I see them like fail a save or something.
So this is my this is my favorite moment from the episode
because it was just such it it just told the story that it's
like the dice tell the story in this game.
You know, sometimes that's maybenot the case.
Maybe it's maybe this the odds are stacked so against the dice
that the story will happen one way or the other.
But this story would have changed wildly had this

(48:05):
encounter had this not happen. And it's because of your choice.
You were like, do I give him advantage on the saving throw?
This man that I hate Tannenbaum because I know that Rook is a
bad man and you're like, yes, I do.
I I'm going to give him advantage on this.
So I rolled the first one, whichwas, yeah, I didn't roll both at
the same time. I just rolled the first one that

(48:25):
was without the advantage failed.
And then I rolled the second dice and it was a success with
the advantage just changing it completely.
And then Bones, the spell that he was casting was enemies
abound. Which enemies abound makes it so
the affected person thinks that everybody is their enemy, you

(48:45):
know, and reacts to that in however way the DND or the DM
wants to make that happen. And one of Bones's questions in
the in for the Chaser was what was I going to do?
You know, because I didn't know.I didn't know his enemies abound
until like after the episode where he he texted me and told
me that he was like, here's whatit was because he was it was a

(49:07):
secret that that's what it was. So he's like what?
So I haven't really. So to answer Bones question, I
don't know. It would have been impactful
though, and I can honestly say Idon't really know what would
have happened in that scenario. But what I was waiting for was
something to break out for something to really for things

(49:28):
to go haywire on this trek, on this trip.
And that would have there there would have been something
significant that happened off the top of my head, off the top
of the Dome. He would have maybe thought
everybody was Cobalt, you know, the Cobalts were back as the you
know, as the in there like cactus armor or something and he
attacks the person next to him, causes chaos, falls off his

(49:51):
horse, you know, something like that, or just decides to charge
it Brooke with his horse becausehe thinks he's getting attacked.
It would have been something significant that maybe in
Terrell, you know, you would be able to calm emotions or
something to to I. Don't know, because with the IT
was a very fragile piece in thatgroup at all times, right.

(50:15):
It really does feel like had he done anything to break whatever
sort of accord we had, whatever sort of agreement was running,
stopping everybody from killing each other, it might have been
too late. If one person started wildly
attacking that Marshall, the Marshalls, I just feel like it
would have been dead like. Yeah, but who would would you

(50:37):
have sided with the you know, I don't it's hard for me to it's
hard to find do this hypothetical because I truly
don't know exactly how I would have handled handled that in the
IT would have. Depended on who the Marshall
attacked. Yeah, true.
If he like suddenly attacks Namby or Hugh that I'm not going
to defend him even if part of mesuspects it's from a spell from

(50:59):
bones or whatever. You know, like.
Yeah, that's not happening. Yeah.
Does Buckworth see that it's happening and he attacks Bones?
That's the thing, I feel like they absolutely Buckworth and
Tannenbaum would have short of him attacking Buckworth.
And even if he attacked Buckworth then I feel like they
would have just like gone at each other.

(51:20):
There would have been no stopping them.
And then one of them, whoever wins that probably tries to kill
Rook. And then we probably have to try
to kill that person to save Rookor let them kill Rook.
Like I don't know. I don't know.
It would have changed completelythe whole thing, The entire rest
of the story would have been different.
At least somebody, I think somebody would have died.
I think that's the least I feel like somebody would have died.

(51:41):
If not, it would have changed something significantly.
Especially since this is hot on the heels of how Tannenbaum has
just screwed everybody over too by dumping out that water and
like bragging about killing all the Cobalts.
I feel like there's a high likelihood that Becca would have
just taken the opportunity to tofuck him up, you know?
It was the goblins that he was like bragging about eradicating

(52:03):
the goblins from this area because the railroad needed it,
but then the railroad didn't even end up going there.
I had a lot of notes on how to make these guys like just the
most hated people. But that was my favorite moment
because that was just a such a cool D&D moment to have a have

(52:24):
the dice really high stress, a player's choice high stress
moment. I hate those.
Moments to make a choice where I'm like agonizing over what
decision to make, you know, just.
Great. It was, yeah.
So cool that Yeah, that that encounter was very fun.
And that was basically the episode.

(52:44):
And then you guys kind of settled down at night and and
everyone was chill. You know, if this hadn't been
chill earlier than it wouldn't have been chill for Rook.
I guess I assumed he would stillhave been alive.
I don't think you guys would have killed him or you know, but
you know, but that would have been wildly different too.
But he was chill. You guys rested in underneath.

(53:06):
That wasn't important. The resting moment was important
to me because I felt bad about being short with Hugh in Episode
5. Yeah, I felt bad about in
episode 5 when Imtero did the calm emotions on Hugh for
wanting to talk about his mom. So then we had that rest where I
could tell Namby and Hugh what'sgoing on with him, Tiro, which

(53:29):
all ended up just working out well for how it all ends up for
the Western arc. Right?
Like I felt like it it played out nicely that Imtero's drama
with his mom sort of comes out throughout these episodes, only
for it to then the end bit be about his memories with his

(53:50):
mother. Yeah, it this there are just a
couple ways that this arc just ended up playing out like a
movie. Not by my design, you know, like
not just purely from your guys taking opportunities for role
play. The dreams.
The dreams thing was there as a you know, underneath on the on

(54:11):
the plains of the western. You know, it in my mind, I'm
camping out on this, like Western Plains was just a place
where everybody was going to have dreams, you know, or maybe
have a dream. I love that Crumb rolls to not
have. That's so perfect for Crumb.
Crumb's like no dreams. And then and then Rook's like,

(54:31):
yeah, if what if I can't sleep? What if I don't sleep?
Do. I yeah, that was none of us had
any idea. We haven't even discussed that.
Like we had no idea what was going on with Rook throughout
all of this either, right? Like right, is he married to
Ella? That's like what Hugh seems to
think. And then we not, we don't know
what race he is. All of us who as players are

(54:52):
just like what the fuck is up with this?
Yeah, like with the dehydration thing, that ability for the
cactus dragon to, to suck all the moisture out, it's like if
for creatures who have blood, you know, or like blood flowing
through them, which Rook doesn't.
He's a, you know, reborn. He, you know, maybe has
hydration there. But that's not how I wanted to
rule it. But you know, Emtero, you know,

(55:16):
you don't have, you know, I don't know what a fired gymnasty
has flowing through their veins.But you can't dehydrate someone.
Passion, my friend. That's what flows through
Emtero's veins. That's good Emtero, please leave
the table and then and then getting allowing and then
throwing in the. I was happy to throw in the the

(55:37):
little face step, you know, unintentional Facebook yes, that
that emtero got to do and then and then you caught me off guard
like, oh, is this Cassie? No sense because she's an
elodron. I'm like, no, I've.
I just assumed we're going to work things back to my previous
characters in every adventure. Poor Cassie didn't get to be

(55:59):
part of the western arc, which is a real shame.
Maybe a missed opportunity. Possible.
I don't think so. I think we're fine.
Well, I'm saying maybe. Maybe we could have encountered
maybe if we went around the crevasse.
Sort of. I don't, I don't actually, I
probably shouldn't even tease that because I don't really want

(56:20):
to reveal that because anyways, that's that's yeah, so did.
We ever like walk by any like gross weird cats or something.
I don't remember you narrating like.
No. But anyways, yeah, the dreams at
night was a fun thing to put in there.

(56:41):
I'm glad I got to put my cactus friend into my dream.
Yeah, yeah, that's like totally normal.
But your cactus guy is there, like with tucking your mom in or
whatever. It was my stepdad is the cactus
man in the dream, obviously. Just makes total sense.
And then Chapter 7, the big Chapter 7 are longest.

(57:05):
Is that the longest episode? Second.
Or longest episode is still Christmas Peril Part 2 by like 9
minutes. But this one was close it.
Was very close. I mean, it was probably equal in
record to either of like the records we did for Christmas
Peril. It's just that because Christmas

(57:26):
Peril Part 2 had that redone dragon fight that was like 2
hours by itself tacked on to like a three hour recording, you
know that 1 ended up longer in the end.
This was still like a four and ahalf hour long record.
So we were fucking tired by the end of it.
We were also being like fucked with beyond belief.

(57:50):
But man, what I mean, what a, what a fun episode all around.
The the episode starts off with you guys finishing that second
day of travel. You know, I, you guys didn't
really know how this episode wasgoing to go, which I was excited
for because it's a little bit ofa bait and switch with the plot
from 3:10 to Yuma very much not being not, you know, deviating

(58:13):
at the end to something different the second day of
travel. And there's a couple things that
I narrated that hinted at some possible encounters that you
guys missed. So if you're wondering what
would have happened if we would have gone around the Calabasa
crevasse, you guys walked by a big herd of of, of bison like

(58:33):
animals. There was a rainstorm that
didn't end up becoming anything,but those were in there is
little hints of possible encounters that were written and
now that I get to reuse in the future because they're pre
written basically as as possibilities that could have

(58:54):
happened if if if things had gone a different direction or or
if I if things had moved quickerthen then how they did, which
but which I did not hope for. You know, everything moved to a
great pace for me. But but you guys made it into
town and then it was so it was so fun for me to like try it to

(59:18):
narrate this day of waiting for the 259 to paradise and like try
to have you guys maybe feel sometension when you're like
starting going to move toward the train, knowing that you guys
have seen the movie, of course, you know, and like seeing guys
think about how like, what are you going to how are you going
to approach this? You know, you know what the

(59:38):
movie plot is, but your characters don't and don't
suspect that the town is going to turn against the characters
or something like that. Or you know, that I had
something like that planned. What was Did that stick out for
you at all? I.
Mean, obviously I thought we were going to get into an
encounter there or I wouldn't have stolen that bar man's
piano. Yeah, and I was like, okay, I

(01:00:00):
don't know how long this piano is actually supposed to last,
but it's going to make it to thetrain.
And because it would have been so mean to like, have you burn
abilities. Just because you knew the plot
of the movie and. As this bait, which I
appreciate, although I will say I think our only real missed
opportunity with this whole episode is that we didn't put
any like ragtime piano music in.So, Drew.

(01:00:21):
When we were doing a train thingtoo, I feel like we could have
gotten some like Rocky and Bullwinkle style freaking just
piano music. I'll go back and edit it.
I'll go. I'll.
Go in, I'll really. Send you a version of it.
But yeah, very, very fun for forme to just narrate you guys

(01:00:45):
walking up and then the, the train coming in and when I was
editing the the the editing it and I said, oh, the conductor,
my name's, you know, slippery giggle.
And I'm like, what did I name this character?
Like I forgot that I. I'm a much bigger fan of what

(01:01:05):
was it, Skittle Bottom. That's where Charlie called.
Him, Yes. Skittle bottom.
That's slippery. Giggles brother.
Skittle Bottom. I'm going to make a character
named Skittle Bottom for on thispodcast one day.
Just you wait. And then you guys get on the
train and. Which is quite surprising.

(01:01:28):
And yeah, yeah. And slippery giggle is surprised
that you don't put Rook in the the fancy cage.
You know, like it's like, well, that's kind of the policy, but I
guess because made a deal then that's one way that I think it
would definitely would have changed if you had not made a
deal with Rook. I think you guys would have been

(01:01:48):
like, Yep, he's got to stay in there, you know, but and then
had to make a decision on. Then maybe Corlin would still be
here. Maybe.
Corlin's the only one that wasn't that bad.
What I like about what happened to Corland, which he immediately
got gunned down by Rook and I don't know if this is something

(01:02:13):
that Bones suspected or if it was because I don't think I
hinted at it too much. Maybe I did a couple times, but
like Cortland, Cortland was verymuch filled with wanted to get
revenge on Rook and was going totake an opportunity if he could
get one in the mud or in the cactus dragon fight or in this

(01:02:34):
train sequence to to to to try and take out Rook or do
something to push him off the train.
He was going to do something like the man was filled with
with with revenge because Brookehad killed a lot of his friends.
Pretty. Justifiable.
He wants true revenge on Rook and I think that Bones just like

(01:02:55):
knew that maybe that was going to happen or just wanted to get
a revenge on somebody and kill somebody.
So he took out Coraline and I was like up.
That was one way I was going to add some chaos with the train.
Train ride is if Cortland. It was you did have Cortland
come up to me at one point in that episode and be like just
keep I think we should keep our eye on Rook, make sure he

(01:03:17):
doesn't pull anything or whatever.
Right. You had like.
Yeah. Like that.
And I just remember like making the decision then when he said
that telling him like no, like we made a deal.
We are all a posse. I'm going to do everything I can
to just try to keep this accord together, you know, like this is
an agreement between us all. And then it was so brutal to

(01:03:41):
have Bones just murder him whilelooking him Tiro dead in the eye
the whole time. I was so pissed.
Not like actually like pissed their Bones, but pissed poor
poor him Tiro. And it was part of that was you
guys switching initiatives, you know?
Yeah. So that was when we I think this

(01:04:02):
made it in the episode where I said here's here's your
initiative orders in this scenario, you guys can switch
initiatives because because you're all kind of starting at
the same time. And it may, you know, if you
guys had a plan to like we're going to send Valley out first.
You know, I wanted that to be able to happen and not be
awkward with like, you know, MTRL being the first up or

(01:04:25):
something, you know something. Ultimately, I think the only way
it really would have had a chance to change things
meaningfully if I went before him would have been if I had
activated that coin, because then he wouldn't be able to
counter spell and me trying to save Corland.
But there was absolutely zero chance on my turn I was ever

(01:04:46):
going to waste it activating that coin on the first round
anyway. If I had gone before he had done
anything, I probably just would have dashed with Valley Jack,
like, because I'm like, I need to, we need to move more than
anything. So on my turn, that's all I
would have been thinking about to begin with.
All it really did was make me waste a reaction on that silvery

(01:05:08):
barbs instead. Yeah.
Yeah, that the start of that encounter was also the final
chance for me to invoke this feeling of having no player
agency with Tannenbaum or Buckworth stepping in to screw
the deal. Like that was like, yeah, what

(01:05:29):
they were going to do. And we didn't talk about the,
the the coyote year was that. I mean, that was just a cool
touch. Is that based on any actual?
I mean, I know it's like a walkie-talkie basically, but was
it? Are you like, I'm going to take
this magic item and adapt it or you're just like, it's just a
magic coyote year? Yeah, it's just a magic coyote
year walkie-talkie. So that's could.

(01:05:49):
We have, could we have like, stolen it?
Like used the coyote year. Like if we had taken one, if we
had kept that ear, and then whenwe beat Ella, could we have
taken the other one off? She had one.
And then like, could Hugh just have it now like?
I think I wasn't planning on youguys if you guys hadn't tried
to, if you guys hadn't dropped the guns before leaving, I was
going to have the setting appropriate things stay.

(01:06:14):
So I yeah, I think I would have had that stay because that's a
pretty powerful. Yeah, that's exactly why I want
it now. Yeah, yeah, the coyote coyote
year was a item. I was like, what would be a
cool? What's like a cool like way to
for them to communicate what makes sense?
An ear stuffed coyote year that makes sense.
So I liked it, the whole thing, like is this a bomb?

(01:06:36):
And then having the bag man likeopen it up.
I think I mean bag man. I forgot.
I love the bag bag. Gosh.
So fun. We've we've said a lot of the
discord, but you know, this, this, this episode was made for
Mav, you know, like just his character shows the bag man
shows up and gets to be creepy and weird and do all sorts of

(01:06:58):
fun things. And then of course, at the end,
you know, Mav's character showing up, but the Batman being
there just so fun. It's, it's just enhanced this
whole campaign so much to have the Echo Night.
The the the flavor that Becca came up with for the Echo Night
is just like so perfect for thiscampaign and such a fun way to

(01:07:18):
do it. Yeah, for the IT really, it's
always the most exciting part when she gets to roll someone,
and especially when it's somebody as iconic and
horrendous as the bagman. It's just a lot of fun.
It's when they really clash withthe environment, you know, like
that makes it more fun. So especially you getting to

(01:07:39):
narrate it like at times like being under the lid of the piano
or in a woman's purse or whatever, just darting around.
I love stuff like that. Yeah.
And then yeah. And then the the encounter
started and I. Maybe the most stressful start
to an encounter of all time. Like I just, I feel like

(01:08:01):
everybody, the energy in the in the group was immediate.
Like this is this is it feels like I'm on a train that's had a
sort of like a bridge, right? Like 6 rounds is not a lot of
rounds when you can see the math.
And no, you can't travel the full distance of this train in
six rounds normally. That, that just like makes me so

(01:08:24):
happy because that's the feelingthat I wanted to, to, to, to, to
elicit, you know, I wanted it to, to feel like, to feel like
the moments on the, on the episode, on the movie, when
you're watching a movie and you're on the train and the
bridge is out, you know, and it's like coming and they have
like not much time. How do I create that?
I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how many rounds, how,
what's the distance, what makes sense?

(01:08:47):
How does it, how does it, how isit going to work?
Where, where you guys are going to feel very pressured and have
a real chance at not succeeding,but also make it fair, you know,
and, and, and I wanted it to notbe an easy encounter and but
also make it fun. So it wasn't so crunchy.
And I think I, it turned out, you know, perfectly well.

(01:09:11):
I was, I was so happy with how it turned out.
You know, you guys finished it, you know, around early, but it
still felt very pressured for. Yeah, it did not feel like it
was guaranteed that we were going to finish at that round
early. Yeah, it felt like if Valley
missed or something, then like he was maybe the only one that
was going to be able to do something that even.
If Valley didn't just have the idea to just shove dudes out the

(01:09:34):
window so that they just weren'ta problem, Like they were hardly
an impediment to him at all. If there was even one person who
had slowed us down enough, right?
Like would have been a huge issue.
And when I made it, I was like, I know that they're going to
come up with ways to surprise me.
You know, I like, look through all of your abilities and things
and your spells. I was like, OK, I know your

(01:09:56):
dancing thing gets you a 10 extra speed, but the there's a
couple things that just totally caught me off guard, like, oh,
Valley Jack, can I shove them out the window as an action?
I'm like, yeah, you can because that's awesome.
And also Valley Jack, you're huge and sure, you, you can
absolutely shove these guys out of the window that, you know,
I've purposely tried to make this the train, you know, very

(01:10:19):
accessible to the outside. If you wanted to try and like
climb up to the top from the side or use a ladder as normal
movement and then not have to. It's, it's kind of a silly
encounter because it's the movement is very simplified in
it because I was like, we're notgoing to do any, you know,
difficult terrain. People are going to kind of just

(01:10:40):
be stacked up on each other. The movement got a little bit
confusing that way because of how like sometimes I would place
it on my roll 20 versus how likeyou guys were calculating it
like I move 40 then I move 40 that should be 80 and it and
like on roll 20, the way the thedrag click thing works where I
can see the distance, maybe I didn't place it right or maybe I

(01:11:03):
had them stop 5 feet short because they were within melee
of somebody. So it was like, OK, well, you
know, fudge it. So it makes sense you.
Know, but the fact that we were just tracking it so intently,
though, it's just a more evidence of how stressed or how
in the moment, you know, it really felt, I guess as a

(01:11:23):
player, how how in the encounterwe work.
So it's like I need every singlespot in my mind right now, you
know, like, but I know I I'm I'll just talk about the other
ways we got movement. My favorite turn that I've had I
think in the campaign was getting to Dissonant Whispers

(01:11:45):
and Bardic Inspiration Valley Jack in the same breath.
Right. Yeah, yeah, because he had to
move his full speed away from you.
Yes, which I just really enjoyedgetting to flavor it like the
whispers are his fears of not being able to save everybody.

(01:12:05):
Because I just feel like that iswhat Valley Jack would fear more
than anything is. Absolutely.
In this moment. And that would spur him to move
faster and to go as far as he could.
And there's, yeah, there was a lot of things in that that went
your guys's way, like taking outall the initial, like, thugs in
that room. You know, those guys were

(01:12:26):
pretty. Those were like the weakest of
the encounter bunch, right? They were they were not as as
hefty as the guys in the middle,but they would have slowed you
down for sure. They would have you know, they
were going to try and grapple you in things.
You know, they but valley Jack took them out and then the the
guys in the middle of the train with the guns there, there was a

(01:12:47):
little encounter there whip guy had nothing.
He couldn't land any of his whips and his whips were nuts
like he was. He had some let me actually pull
up that that that stat block because because I was expecting
him to be able to slow down people pretty significantly.
People's house cannot be slowed down so easily.

(01:13:13):
And let's see, that was the statblock was it's a, it's some sort
of a shadow, shadow car Kai or something like that.
But it's a basically he's got these these spiked chains, his
whips, right? And so if he hit with it, then

(01:13:34):
the target had to make that DC14Dexterity saving throw or suffer
one of the following effects. The role of one or two, it would
have taken 22 on average necrotic damage a three or four.
The target is grappled and untilthe grapple ends, the target is
restrained. And then 5 or 6 was topple,
which is the target is not prone.

(01:13:55):
All three very bad things to happen to you and don't think
any of them happened. Maybe one?
I think he got Valley Jack like one time.
Yeah, but that was like it. Yeah.
Like hit him. And it ended up being just
damage and then Valley Jack had like just he either second

(01:14:15):
winded or he had just eaten the thing from Hugh to get bonus.
It just worked out that it like even and on that turn he healed
for one HP like this was. Nothing but that was like one of
the that was one of the guys that Rook had worked with too.
So it's funny that like Bones never actually saw him, maybe

(01:14:36):
did on the top of the train, butlike.
But Bones knew him, knew his name and everything like Rook
knew his name and and. Isn't that just like Levi Rook
to not do a fucking thing to help his own man?
Yeah, yeah. And but, but of course, these
guys, you know, this man was fully loyal to Ella and Rook,

(01:14:57):
you know, I think would have known that or.
Even if they were listen in 310 to Yuma, I feel like they're
pretty loyal to Russell Crowe and he doesn't really give much
of a shit by the end. Very true.
Yeah, but but, yeah, then the the the thought it was just a
cool character kind of to have this whip guy that like can kind
of move through the shadows, youknow, mystically in this like

(01:15:20):
pretty grounded Western world. I I agree he was very cool, the
whip guy. Although I don't know, whenever
there's like a guy in a Western movie who has like a thing
that's like I'm the whip guy, I'm just kind of like, OK, you
fucking dork, you know, in. My head so.
You know, it's very. Similar to the Indiana Jones

(01:15:41):
moment where he just kills the guy with, you know, just why
don't you have a gun it? Reminds me of like wild, Wild
West. That's when you've seen right,
of course, the Best Western, theguy who's got like the knife
arms or what he's got like knifeknives in his boots.
They're just like, OK guy, don'tbe the sword guy, don't be the

(01:16:02):
knife guy, don't be the whip guy, Just just be a normal
outlaw, you freak. Yeah, I, I thought the pressure
of of the rounds happening was, was just, I, I felt the
pressure, you know, wondering ifyou guys were going to make it
and do it. The if for some reason you found

(01:16:23):
out some way to travel really fast, then maybe the train was
going to speed up and you would lose around.
That was something in my back pocket.
But that you don't, I didn't want to bring that out unless
something something really dumb like like like like bones being
like, well, I have like teleportor you know, something like he
had that. Freaking like Vorpal teleport

(01:16:43):
move or whatever he did and. Yeah, I love that he took out.
You could have teleported. Any of us forward and instead
you teleport someone off the train.
What a. Yeah, Buckworth, just like,
well, I'm out and has to make his way back.
I loved when Crum did his like kind of screwed himself by doing

(01:17:05):
the the pole move, the grasp of Hadar or whatever with the with
the Oh my gosh elder. Yes, with Ella and pulled her
off right. Pulled her forward out of his
line of sight for his next attack.
So, yeah, it's something that you'd see in the hijinks in a

(01:17:27):
Western movie, like, you know, yeah, that was great.
Crumb almost dying too, yeah, like.
And I had so many bad roles. I had so many bad roles.
And then finally I hit the Nat 20 on Ella's gun, which is like
the the the highest damage that I could have pulled out, you

(01:17:48):
know, and and taking Rook or taking Crumb down.
That was cool. And it also made me glad that I
reached out to Swain before I was and and asked him.
I was like, I was confused on I just want to know crumbs back
story better about him coming from the kind of the shadow
lands quote and like showing up in this world and stuff.

(01:18:09):
And so I was glad that I did that.
So I was like prepared for that to happen in that moment where,
you know, I didn't, you know, plan to have him go down or
anything like that. But that's just how it happened.
I'm going to target you specifically, Swayne.
Yeah, yeah, it's a bad. So everybody listening to this
is like, oh crap. If Kyle texts me, ask me more

(01:18:30):
about my back story. If Kyle ever asked you for yeah
your characters memories or backstory, do not give them to him.
Do not weaponize them. But that was that was great.
And then she had two extra, two more shots to use.
And, you know, I don't think shehit with those, but but yeah,
that was so satisfying. And then just so satisfying for

(01:18:53):
Valley Jack to just get up to her and and take her out.
You know, I think that was kind.Of it's just got to be Valley
Jack, right? Like in these situations, I'm
always like, Interior is just like, well, Valley Jack's the
hero. He has to lead the charge.
He must be the one who takes herout.
Has to it's written. It's just it's valley Jack and

(01:19:16):
then, you know, because I wondered, it was like, you know,
Brooke has some extra movement abilities with namby who has
like this rabbit hop. Maybe Namby gets up there.
Maybe, you know, there maybe there's a she tries to use
remove curse. You know what would have
happened there. That's a whole, you know,
different end to how things could have gone but didn't.

(01:19:41):
And Ella dies and the red slime disconnects and makes it out
through the portal. But and and the bridge was
saved. You guys saved the saved the
train. One of the questions I think
Ryan asked was. I think it was Ryan.

(01:20:05):
Yeah. What was?
Yeah, I like how they how we talked about having these
episodes on rails and then Kyle literally had it on a train.
What was the inspiration for thetrain?
Yeah, the inspiration was I wanted to do a train experience.
It was a season 2 of fire season1 episode 2 of Firefly.
The train job was his inspiration, I'm sure.

(01:20:27):
Yeah, absolutely. I'm trying to think like when I
think of train encounters in movies, I think of Goldeneye.
I think Goldeneye, right? There's a train.
On there, yeah, that's got a train, but.
I think of wild Wild West has a train, right?
I'm pretty sure, yeah. There's some railroad stuff in
Wild. I think that the main guy has

(01:20:48):
like his own, Not the main guy, but Kevin Klein's character, I
feel like he has his own train or something that he like, has a
lab on. I don't remember, but there's
train, there's train stuff in there.
Yeah, there's a lot of trains inmovies.
I think of Thomas the Tank Engine.
Cruz loves Thomas the Tank Engine right now.
Well, that's terrifying for it is scary.
I do not like it. No, the strings are not meant to

(01:21:09):
have faces like. It's an abomination.
It's not bad, it's scary. Honestly, I would love it if we
had, if, if it had turned out the train that we were on was a
living monster with a face that we had to fight, you know?
Thomas the Tank Engine train there is a really cool consider
this in that western document from critical crafting where the

(01:21:31):
cactus dragon came from. They have a train golem, which
is like the way that locomotionswork in that like setting that
they provided was it's a the front of the train has big arms
and like the whole thing is decked out with all these
defenses against Raiders and Cowboys trying to take take it
over. It's a cool step walk.

(01:21:52):
I considered highly considered using it but didn't really fit
with with what I was wanting to do He did.
Was good. The rest of Ryan's question was
what was the plan if the bridge was blown?
The the plan if the bridge was blown was everybody was going to
get one action, one turn to do before the train got onto the

(01:22:16):
bridge. So what are you going to do with
the the bridge is blown, the train is going fast.
You know, the options I had thought of was, you know, if I
was on the train maybe trying totell people to jump, you know,
and, and like trying to convincepeople to jump off the train
because the the bridge is blown,it would have been bad.
Like this was a this was a there.

(01:22:39):
I was very prepared for you guysto not have this happen and have
the train go off and have this absolute catastrophe happen, you
know, and have you lose. The battle here was was I was
going to go down. Ella was not going to go down
with the train. She was going to jump off.
You know the the. The I mean, I couldn't imagine
her deciding to die for this cause, so that makes.

(01:23:03):
Sense so she would have clicked the button as the train was
going and then leapt off the train, you know, and rolled in
the dust, you know kind of thing.
And then and then you guys wouldhave had a turn to to to figure
out what you're going to do witha strain full of people that I
think I would have taken. I would hope that maybe you

(01:23:24):
tried to hope that you would have found some way to save some
people. But I, you know, I off the top
of my head, I don't, I don't know the train.
I really don't know what spells I would even have that could
have helped. Best I would think is I could
try to persuade people to jump off the train, right?
I don't know what else I could even have done in that
situation. Calm emotions so everybody
doesn't feel that bad about their imminent death.

(01:23:47):
As they go off, yeah, I don't know.
I don't know if I try to convince you and Namby to leap
off at least, and maybe because I know it's a campaign we're
recording, I might make the decision to just like grab Namby
and jump off to force it to continue happening.
But I don't think there's any way I would have been able to
get Hugh off. And then I feel like there's a

(01:24:08):
good chance that Becca would have just died if because I
can't see Hugh leaving other people behind.
Trying to, Yeah, trying until the very last moment to try and
save some people. You know, I I can see,
absolutely see her doing that. I can see, you know, Valley Jack
doing that. Even Crumb, you know, Crumb has
a strong sense of duty. But yeah, I mean I was, I mean

(01:24:32):
I. Just it's a given to me if that
train blew up, Valley Jack is going with it.
Like there's zero chance he's not going over the edge.
And like I was prepared to like,have you guys come up with some
something to try and do. But like the, the way the train
was designed, it wasn't designedto make things easy to like
break off a track or, you know, even if you could break off the,

(01:24:54):
the carts from the, the train, it's still going fast.
It's going to go over the bridge.
You know, I was so we should prepared to, I was prepared to
allow like some sort of dice roll to try and hit like a
natural 20 to try and make something happen, you know,
something heroic. That a train derailer is a
discreet object. You know, I could have made one
the whole time we were on there.Now I think about it, it is just

(01:25:16):
like a metal geese that goes on the rail.
I could have just created one underneath us and derailed the
train, yeah. I think.
We would have all died when a train derailed, but at least
Ella wouldn't have won. And that's what happened.
But guess what, that didn't happen.
You guys saved the bridge, the bridge was intact and the train

(01:25:38):
kept going and made it to made it to Paradise and boy, the boy
what happened in paradise I was not prepared for.
I was. Telling you there was some
trouble in paradise. I loved it because like in my
head, I'm like, I'm playing Tannenbaum and Namby's trying to
shake his hand. I'm like, I, I don't really know

(01:25:59):
what what she was trying to pull.
I honestly didn't wasn't thinking it through in the
moment that she was trying to like touch him to do something.
I just Tannenbaum was just beingan ass like usual.
And it's like, I'm not shaking this, you know, this rabbit's
hand. Like, we're not, you know, I'm
not going there because he was, you know, pissed off that
basically it hadn't gone his way.

(01:26:19):
Valley Jack was able to give thevaccines.
He knew he had, you know, talk with Buckworth.
Buckworth who had talked with him and said, hey, like, you
know, these vaccines are for thegood kids, you know, not for the
the scum on the streets, you know, paraphrasing.
But yeah, Buckworth is like, hey, let's give it to people who
can actually, like praise us andgive us money or stature or

(01:26:39):
whatever. And Valley Jack's like, no,
we're, you know, we're going to do do the right thing, you know,
and, and. And steal one of these files and
give it to a criminal son, right?
Yeah, and then Namby does inflict wounds on him and hits
the Gnat 20 who is amazing. Yeah, the fact that she did as

(01:27:00):
much damage as Aloe's gun, Right?
Like just wild. She naked Tannenbaum.
Yeah, absolutely nuked him. I knew that these guys were
going to have death saving throws because they were kind of
important NPCS unless they got killed out right earlier in the
campaign. So it wasn't like a you know, I
and I so I knew that this that he was going to that she was

(01:27:24):
going to have a chance to save him and but she but she didn't
catch that right away and, you know, didn't know that right
away. So it was like he's dead and
then like he's got ACD succeededon a saving throw and then she
realized I can go heal him. Yes.
You know what's crazy though? That I only realized very
recently. Both of these arcs have ended

(01:27:44):
with like an asshole villainous character being dead and revived
before we went through the. Yeah, it's true.
That's just very odd. Coincidence repeats itself, you
know, like you guys kill somebody who dies and then
they're and then you're like, Ohwell.
The first time Kat the Big is the one who fucking knew that

(01:28:06):
sure bobbed, yes. So that one, it wasn't our bad,
but this one was definitely a little on namby.
That was a little on namby and yeah, and gosh, that would have
sucked if I was just like, he's dead.
Like the like what a change and demeanor that would have had.

(01:28:29):
For it would have truly affectedme and Namby's relationship
forever, I think for the rest ofthis campaign to if she had not
been able to bring him back to life after already after Montero
just felt like the worst he's ever felt already at this point.
So it would have been, well, I don't know.

(01:28:49):
I don't know how it would have reacted.
Yeah, it would. It would have it would have
taken some role play to fix. And I think that's me.
You know what I mean? Like it's like one of those
things like do we want the campaign to continue in this
really dark direction or something?
You know, it would it would havewe would have had to do a lot of

(01:29:10):
odd off the air talking about how we were going to handle
that. So I'm glad.
Because it's so weird, because it is.
People die all the time in like the in our campaigns and stuff.
And Tannenbaum's a bad person who also, like, in Nine, if he
had died in like a million different times in the episode,
it really wouldn't even have left an impact, right?

(01:29:31):
But it's just because it was like, OK, everything has finally
calmed down, right? Like we've gotten, there's been
a lot of moral Gray area, but webasically have a victory here.
And things are kind of looking like they're rounding out in a
clean way and then found dead onthe ground.

(01:29:53):
Coughing up blood on the ground and Andy saves him.
Is is now this Messiah, maybe character, you know this the
great healer who can heal the Crimson cough and starts to get
swarmed by the crowds. Just cracking up at that.
It's just like never my wildest dreams.
What I've thought that that's how the episode would have

(01:30:15):
ended, you know, with your characters in that world.
If the world didn't reset, then like a year from now Valley Jack
comes back to that town and there's like a rabbit statue
like at the gate or whatever, you know, like they're
worshipping her. And then you split from the
others and, and then they go andand they go to to Rook's child

(01:30:40):
and deliver the vaccine to little Marquis.
Little Bonnie, Little Bonnie, Little Bonnie Mav.
So excited. I was so excited for this
moment. I was so excited to to have have
Charlie read the name Marquis and see how he pronounced it.

(01:31:01):
He does it correctly. Yes.
And he does it correctly. Yeah.
Does. You know, these stories, they
reset, but maybe, maybe some of the things in these stories
bleed through into the, in the true reality, you know, maybe
and, and the real reality, the Marquis pronounces his name
correctly and he's the marquee. You know, maybe, maybe, maybe

(01:31:23):
think that some of these things that happen.
Maybe are permanent in the real reality.
He never met Valley Jack and that's why he says it wrong, I
mean. But yeah, that I was very
excited for that because, because for for Mav, I had
reached out to him before. This is his character, the

(01:31:43):
Marquis who was in the gladiatortournament, Western character,
and chatted with him a little bit about the Marquis's
background and kind of if there was any, you know, talk about
taking liberties at this character.
If if I could and kind of basically told him the plan.
Like I think the characters are going to rescue a kid and have

(01:32:04):
it be like the Marquis when he'sa kid.
You see, if you just told us it was the Marquis the whole time,
we wouldn't have made that deal to begin with.
Exactly. That's so funny.
Sorry Rook, your kid kind of grows up to be a, you know, like
an impediment to us more than anything.
So not really interested. And then yeah, the the then.

(01:32:31):
And then a big happy ending whenwe go through the.
Big one, happy ending. The most poetic.
This is the most movie moment ever to me this is the most pre
written. Like it.
You know, if there was anything that was.
I truly would think maybe we hadsome sort of idea of what was
going to happen, if not for the fact that I know we did not.

(01:32:52):
And then it was really just like1:00 AM bullshitting with me
just being like, God, I just want to go through the fucking
portal so I can go to sleep. Let's hold hands and go
together. Whatever it is in the future,
we'll face, we'll face it together.
And then you walk into the portal and Namby sees some

(01:33:13):
memories, Hugh sees some memories, and then M Tiro is
taken into his mind and experiencing some of his
memories first hand, exploring some of the earlier memories.
That I was so nervous to talk very openly here.

(01:33:34):
I was so nervous this, that whole record, because I feel
like I knew it was going to be me who had some sort of scene
maybe. I don't remember if you told us
that or if it just seemed likely.
I can't really honestly rememberwhy I had the feeling but I was
so worried because of the fact that Hugh seemed played out like
an actual memory that Hugh had. And my worst memory was like

(01:33:58):
Imtero's mom dying. And I am someone who was like
there present when my mom died and I even messaged Becca.
I was like, I swear to God, if Ihave to role play out a scene of
like a mom dying, I will not be able to make it through this
podcast episode. Probably so.
She was like, there's no way. Kyle's going to do that.
He's not crazy. And so I was like, yeah, that's

(01:34:18):
probably true. But I'm still very worried.
Yeah, I yeah, that's just to comment on that.
There was there was no way I wasgoing to use your own trauma and
life experience against you. But that's why there's that
moment where I'm like, you're talking where I had to like.
I would be I would have in your shoes yes, I would have been so

(01:34:39):
very nervous for that too, because like I mean like
tonight, you know Cami what whatshe picks a book to read.
She books, she picks a book to read.
That makes me cry every single time.
I know that you know what book this is because every parent
knows this book. I love you forever.
I like you for always. As long as I'm living my my

(01:35:02):
baby, you'll be the I love You Forever book.
And I like, I was like, fine, we'll read this tonight.
They're with candy. Fine.
All right, so we sit down and I'm like, this book is so sad.
And then they both and cast like, why is it so sad?
It's not. I'm like, yeah, it's sad because
it's happy. But it's like sad.
And so so I sit down, I'm like, I'm just going to disassociate

(01:35:24):
completely and just read the words on this page.
Not, not not think about them atall.
Just going to make it through this book.
I've never made it through without crying today.
Tonight's the night. Because like just, you know, I'd
never choose to read this book because it's just, it just makes
you cry every time. So I get to I get to the very
end. I get to the very end and then
I'm just starting laughing. I'm the tears are coming out and

(01:35:45):
the kids are like, what? Looking at me like, why are you
crying, daddy? I'm like, because this grown man
is holding his, his mother as she dies in his arms.
And then he goes and talk and then holds his kid and sings the
same song. Gosh, where, where was I going
with that other than, yeah, so did not make it through.
I've never made it through that book without crying, but I got
the closest I ever got by tryingto disassociate and just read

(01:36:09):
the words. But the words just get you by
the end. So, so I, I, I don't really know
where I was going with that other than the if I were in your
shoes, I would have been very nervous to like play something
that would have been really likeemotionally core to me.
And I'm glad that, you know, it's yeah, I'm glad that Becca

(01:36:33):
backed me up and said no, I'm not crazy, which is great to
hear. Yeah, I think that would have.
I mean, that that was never on. That was something I totally was
never going to throw at you justbecause I.
Appreciate it but yeah, that wasjust like why there's.
That I can't imagine. Really sat there for a minute
because I was like, oh God, we're talking about it.
Are we going to head there? And then I started just thinking

(01:36:54):
too much. And then I honestly, I remember
when we were recording, I was like, I didn't even hear what he
said. Like for the point where I'm
like, I walk, I keep walking forward among the stalls.
I was like, did he set me up to say something else?
Because I was like, I was kind of half disassociated.
I was kind of talking for a while and I that's why I like,
paused and had you say that you were going to keep looking at
your memories. Yeah, in the middle.

(01:37:15):
Because I was like, I honestly felt listening back, I felt like
it played well. But in the moment I was like,
oh, I bet he just like set me upto like role play a whole thing.
And I totally missed what he said and blew it.
But luckily was not the case. No, you, you did a fantastic
job. But yeah, and you Mtero got to

(01:37:38):
go to this memory that has. It's a whole different kind of
trauma awaiting Mtero, with the memory a new lifelong trauma for
Scott. Mtero opens the the curtain,
whereas himself, you know, you were on the stage trying to
convince yourself that this wasn't a memory you needed to
watch. And you know, this is this is

(01:37:59):
what the memory is. You know, your your father's a
genie. And then and then having it be
kind of more like a repressed memory that's different.
And you get to see, you know, interact with your younger self,
kind of have a conversation withyour younger self at the in
that. Moment it was just this was such
so well done by you, but so likedevious and fucked up.

(01:38:22):
The the worst part about it was just that we had already set up
the expectation of like in Hughes.
It was like very explicit that you're making a decision right,
like when Hugh did not decide toask River to leave.
So I just assumed that if I weredoing something that was going
to like radically change things,it would be a really active like

(01:38:48):
decision. What I thought was going to just
be like a just a little, maybe this was the beginning of like a
longer thing or something, you know, like all just kind of play
along by telling him, Oh no, you, you misheard.
And then, Oh no, instantly things start unraveling.
Oh, you misheard. Oh, you're going to go ask your

(01:39:08):
mom. Oh, that's going to give her a
chance to to backtrack where shewas.
Really. Like, I can't take away this,
this poor, this little boy's, you know, flame and fire and
enthusiasm and actually explain things to you at that age.
The yeah, it was the, the 11 thing.

(01:39:30):
I'm want I want in creating thisvillain of the Oblex in this
this red slime is that it is crafty and intelligent and wants
to find ways to win, you know, and so the in that first, you
know, because this is this is something where I put it out
there. I don't know if you were going

(01:39:51):
to choose one way or another or if you're going to catch on or,
you know, and and even if you'regoing to know to be able to say
like, Oh, I'm and I'm meta gaming, but I understand, like
in the first one, you guys had talked about how Hugh maybe had
a choice to make and didn't makeit.
Maybe you were material is goingto realize this.
I didn't know which way it was going to go, but it's like it's

(01:40:11):
like great. I've been like, you know, it's
like casting a line out there wanting a wanting you to take
the bait essentially, and and that was a easy one that I felt
like M tyro was. I I was going to take the bait
for that one, but I didn't know for sure.
You know, I also, I also kind ofthought that that Hugh would
take the bait too, but I didn't know Hugh enough in the first

(01:40:33):
one. And I don't think that at at
that point it was something thatBecca as a player realized that
this was like a a true choice tochange something.
I know. So that wasn't that wasn't like
obvious which. None of us knew that these
decisions for sure, knew that these things could change
anything until they did in this episode.

(01:40:55):
Until they did, yeah. Yes.
And I know that even if Becca had known that, he would have
made like the same decision anyway.
And yeah, even if I knew that this was going to change things,
I do feel like whenever I'm playing the scene, even if I
know things are going to maybe work out poorly because of it, I

(01:41:16):
will try to always make the decision that I think Imtero
would make. So even in in this moment, if we
replayed it, I would make the same decision, just like I would
remake the decision to waste my silvery barbs on Brooke and the
train, because I know that that's what Imtero would try to
do, you know? Yeah.
And yeah, so like hearing you tell, I think you misheard.

(01:41:42):
I think you need to talk to to to so your mom again was like
sick. All right, great.
This is in my mind. I'm like, yes, because this is
the this is the oblex's whole plan.
This is this is their this is their this is the oblex's MO,
which should be a fair. I guess at this point in the
campaign is should be somewhat of a theme.

(01:42:05):
You know, we saw this in tow, odd at least, and now we've seen
that a memory is, you know, beenchanged into, you know, this new
reality and and then the memories go crazy.
Namby has a new memory. And then all of a sudden Hugh is

(01:42:25):
alone on the streets in the cyberpunk world in this on this
rainy street, just alone. And that's so heartbreaking
after stepping into the portal with you guys with their hands
held tight. And then he was alone and all

(01:42:46):
all, all by himself. Truly Hugh's worst nightmare,
like to be alone and to be in the furthest removed place from
their happy little like forest life, you know?
Man, and that's where the that'swhere the episode ends.
Wild. Our best episode, I think.

(01:43:09):
Yeah, I think it really and it really takes the cake just
enhanced so much by by all the players, you know, with all the
role play, the the satisfaction that this arc had at the end
with, you know, Valley Jack's character, everyone's, you know,
character Rook Brooks character Rook being able to, you know,

(01:43:31):
it's like Bones just such a great job playing Rook, you
know, because even at the end, like I had talked with Bones
about this at first, like, hey, you know, we talked through some
things about his character, about meeting his son.
What does his family even mean to him?
He's a reborn, you know, character.
And he mentions he kind of hintsat the end that like, things

(01:43:53):
aren't really the same for him and his that that woman, you
know, this baby Mama, you know, and that kid, you know, things
aren't, aren't the same because he's not the same.
He's not really the same man andin that way.
Yeah, And chooses to not go and,you know, says, you know, it's
going to be better if someone else, you know, gives him the

(01:44:16):
get, gives the kid the vaccine. You know, it's just like all
this stuff that's just like makes, it's just so good.
It's just makes me happy. Every moment makes me happy
thinking about it so. It's really, I mean, it just you
said it before, so much of it felt like a movie for this one.
It really has like a a lot of good character arcs for
everybody and just setups and payouts that you just worked out

(01:44:40):
like through the Fates, you know?
It makes me want to like I really, it was really fun
writing this with the template of a movie, you know, like
playing off of a movie that already exists.
You know, that would be a fun thing to do.
Again, like a one shot based on this movie.
You know, let's play through this movie.

(01:45:00):
Avatar to the Way of Water. One shot come in.
All right. Yeah, but also like have it, you
know, where the DMD, you know, changes it, you know, and has
like fun making it their own, but also being able to like play
a character that you've seen on on screen and that you like that
character, you know, would be fun.
But but yeah, that's the that's the end of the episode.

(01:45:25):
We got some, there's a couple, probably a couple questions.
Tried to answer some as we went through but like Becca's
question, just how dare you. Sir, probably a lot of those
questions. That was Andy's Andy's question.
I have a chaser question about about Chapter 7 and it's for
Kyle why and and like as a as Adm that end of that episode,

(01:45:52):
seeing all of your faces like that is such a such a such a fun
moment. We were good.
Because I because. I write things, you write things
and you don't know if you know, I I try to write things that I
think are cool and so if, if theother people think that they're
cool or surprising and I that. Explains why all your characters

(01:46:13):
are named Scott Esmond. But it's so satisfying it like
just to to know that there was atrue surprise that felt like
crazy and good it was. It was so fun to see your faces
and and. Yeah, if you haven't watched the
videos, if you've only listened,these ones are definitely worth
going to the YouTube and checking out the videos.

(01:46:36):
Each video just for the different cowboy hats people are
wearing, but also specifically the last one for everybody's
shocked faces at the end. And you know what?
There's nothing more shocking inin the rest of the campaign,
right? We haven't had any shocking
episodes. 0 shocks since then I will.

(01:46:58):
Of course. I wouldn't know because I've
been asked to leave the table. I'm no longer part of the
campaign. Right, it's true, you're gone.
I'm just there as a recording entity.
Yeah. Becca also asked.
Oh, what was the dragon layer action That seemed to do
nothing. The wind that was a that was an
ability to cactus dragon has to cause wind to come through the

(01:47:20):
the to like to have wind blow through.
And if anybody was flying, they would have fallen.
If anybody was standing, they would have to make a save to not
become prone in the moment. For layer actions, the way I run
them, I just like to use all of them.
So I don't, I don't really try to like quote like metagame or
use them optimally like I have to use this one, then use this

(01:47:42):
one, then go back to the one I have already used before using
one I haven't used. So that was a related action I
wanted to use. Everybody was on a horse or a
wagon at that point. So I just said let's, I'm not
going to make anybody roll for this with advantage.
The like the wind, it's just notgoing to affect anybody because
no one's flying, no one's on theground.
And that was just a a pure decision I made to to kind of

(01:48:05):
keep things going without addingroles that may not have been
very impactful, but that was that so kind of anticlimactic
there where it seemed like, oh, this ominous thing that's going
to happen. No, I just do.
It was just the cactus dragon was trying to blow everybody
over and everybody was kind of firm on their horses and on the
wagon. So didn't really happen, make

(01:48:26):
anything happen. So, and then what had happened
if you had asked River to not goin, in his portal scene?
I wonder, I wonder if maybe we'll answer that question at
the end of the campaign. Possibly.
We'll see. Maybe in the last Chaser we'll
we'll go over what could have been.

(01:48:46):
Yeah, you better, I think you Major.
Moments, I think I probably do owe you.
Yeah. If Mav, if Mt Rd. made Hughes
Hugh smaller, what bunk would Hugh have picked?
I don't know. I guess that's a question.
For. For for Becca I.
Think we all would have cuddled together on the top bunk?
Yeah, What other movies did I take inspiration from math?

(01:49:11):
I tried to answer a couple of questions.
The answers for Western movies is not a whole lot because I
haven't seen a lot of western movies but watch this.
Watch 310 of Yuma twice for thisone and to try and.
Make sure you get the characters.
That's what they call that. I like Tyreke's to Tyreke's

(01:49:32):
comment or question. I do have a thing that I've been
buzzing my mind about regarding the timeline of when the tales
are told and made into books. But Hugh can summon an echo from
a story, from a futuristic story.
Meaning, do the Tall tale Tavern?
Does the Tall Tale Tavern have books from the past, present and
future? To that I will say there you'll
probably will get that answer inan up in a future episode.

(01:49:57):
Well I always just assume that they do, but that's this is me
without really knowing for sure.I just always assume that this
is a magical place and if a bookis made there that it somehow
exists in all versions of it. But.
Who knows? And then vanilla, vanilla,
would, Would Valley Jack like The Carpenter's Carpenter's
Companion books? I think it's actually a good

(01:50:19):
question for you, Scott, becauseI've not read it, but I'm
Terrell, read that book. Do you think that that Valley
Jack would have liked The Carpenter's?
I think he would have found a little amateurish.
I think he probably would have had some notes on things they
could have done better in it. But what a.
Mischief. To not have that come up at some
point, that would have been likean insane level of detail call

(01:50:41):
back. You know, and yeah, Brooke
asking what the what Rook's spell on Tana Bomb was that
failed twice. It did end up failing twice the
second time as well. I love enemies of bounds so that
is a shame. It's one of my favorite spells
in the game. It's pretty cool.

(01:51:03):
It can really mess some stuff. I specifically like it because
it is just purely, oh, I get to just inject chaos into whatever
Kyle has planned right now. Like, oh, I just here's a bomb
of chaos going off suddenly. It's great.
The first time you casted it, I don't even never heard of the
spell before. So it was like, oh crap, what

(01:51:24):
does this even do? And I was like, I guess he
starts fighting. You know, that was in the I'll
have no fury just start swinging.
And then last question, Bones said the question for Scott.
Did the party craft any behind the scenes contingency plans or
strategies revolving around Rook?
Wondering if it if I had anyone scared for was just Emtero and I

(01:51:46):
I don't remember you guys come up with anything specific.
No, I don't think. I mean, we were all certainly
nervous about Rook, talking about Rook, wondering what the
fuck was up with Rook, not knowing what to expect from
Rook. But I don't know if we ever were
like, OK, we need to make Operation stop Levi Rook, you

(01:52:07):
know, like there wasn't anythinglike that in place just because
I think it also would have felt it would feel kind of mean, like
ganging up almost to plan too much ahead of time, right?
I don't know, Like, it feels weird already to be in a group
with opposite objectives and also have like a side chat
within the group. Just feels weird.

(01:52:29):
Right. Yeah, but yeah, you're bringing
that up just makes me think of like the when Brooke was trying
to figure out what to do with Brooke and it was like, it feels
bad to like harm other player characters, like, or go against
them, you know, like it like Brooke was like, I don't know
what to do about like should I oppose Brooke?
And we're like, well, let's let's think about it.
It's like he's a criminal that that escaped his.

(01:52:52):
He thought it was shackled and he has a gun now.
It's looking pretty like scary. So like.
It's very true, though it does feel like you're like being a
jerk and like taking somebody's toy away if you fuck with their
turn, right? Like you've been waiting like 45
minutes for your turn to come up.
I don't want to ruin it. Yeah, yeah, that I think that.

(01:53:15):
Any other final thoughts you have about this, about the
episode so far? I think I've hit everything so.
I think we've, I think we've covered pretty much everything
other than just wanting to reiterate again how much
appreciation I have for everybody who helped us in the
Western arc and and in the campaign at all so far.

(01:53:36):
Oh, yes, it's the yeah, absolutely.
The the players, Bone specifically, you know, working
with him to help craft some of the details and just the the
amount that him and Charlie, youknow, make to the amount of
effort they put into making things make sense for their

(01:53:58):
characters. You know, it was like, it's like
everything was there. Like, why why is Bones robbing
this? Why is Rook robbing the bank?
You know? Oh, he's robbing.
He's robbing the bank so he can pay off Ella so that she can
forget about the vaccine that he's going to steal.
You know, it's like all that, you know, there's details there
that have to make sense for their characters, which is just

(01:54:18):
just adds so much. I can just sum up like my my
feelings about Charlie as a as afellow player are are all
positive. And, and it's evident
immediately in this in episode 4when we show up and I introduce
all of us with like made-up western nicknames to Crumb,
which I forgot about those that just popped.

(01:54:39):
I wrote those ahead of time. I was like, I really got to come
up with something on theme for each of the characters.
But the fact that then like 5 minutes later when we meet him,
he he responds to us all by those names because he took note
of it immediately and wrote themdown to be prepared for Valley
Jack to just already know us somehow.

(01:55:01):
Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's fantastic.
So thanks, thanks to everybody. Let's maybe close out this
chaser before it gets to two hours.
Yeah, we got about 35 seconds on.
The recording, well, there was that that that that pause,
unless you don't edit it out thepause.
You don't know about. That you got the drink and ate
the Taco. Yeah.
So that was some good. Too much Taco, not enough Taco.

(01:55:25):
That's what I was saying during the break.
We got we have something to tease.
Oh yeah, that's that's not that's not the the the campaign.
It's another one shot. Yeah, midst.
We've got it. I just finished actually Kyle.
I finished editing the first episode today of this one shot
coming out in March. A special women's History Month

(01:55:47):
All women adventure, A pirate adventure DM Ed by Becca with
returning guests Tiddly Natalie,Brooke and first time guests my
wife. Celia yeah, it's awesome.
I'm another one that I get to listen to fresh.
I'm excited about. You're going to love it.
I'm I'm, I'm so excited. You know, I becca's amazing DM

(01:56:09):
and it's just going to be so much fun, so much fun to listen
to. And I love pirate stuff.
I always want to play in one or DM one or something.
I just. I've been trying to strong arm a
pirate adventure for years on this podcast.
Not really that hard. I suggested it once like a year
and a half ago, but. Well, I remember I had some

(01:56:29):
ideas about a serial bowl 1. Yes.
That's true. I'm serious about serial.
I'm serial about that one that announcing that now for 2026 the
serial adventure. Going to milk this announcement
for all it's worth. Let's let how about we close out

(01:56:50):
the episode on that note? What's the name of the pirate
adventure? Do we have 1 yet?
Dead men tell no tall tales. Spoopy love it.
But on that note, thanks to all the players for these for this
western arc of the campaign. So much fun.
Thanks, Scott for being there, doing the chaser episodes,

(01:57:10):
editing all those stuff. If you're if you want to edit
some episodes and stuff, you should reach out to us and Scott
and and and help us out so we can get some more of this good
content to you. But otherwise, follow us on
Instagram, YouTube and TikTok. If you like us, give us one of
those good star five star reviews, like our YouTube page.

(01:57:31):
Share us, you know, tell your friends and stuff.
It actually it helps. So it's all that stuff is good.
Doing our Discord, that's where we do all the questions for this
and just talk about all the D&D stuff and get to experience the
episodes with other people. It's always fun.
Thank you to Tyler Adelsberger for intro music.

(01:57:52):
Thank you to Azar for our work. And with that, we will see you
next time at the Tall Tale Tavern.
Bye.