Lance McWhorter: Rhythm, Fire & Redemption

From battlefields to back kitchens, Chef Lance McWhorter has lived a life forged by fire, rhythm, and relentless reinvention.
An Army and Navy veteran turned award-winning chef, Lance has transformed East Texas dining with Heritage East and The Plaid Rabbit  blending global flavor with Southern soul.

In this episode of TMHF, we dive deep into grit, gastronomy, and groove exploring how identity, experience, and rhythm shape the plate.
But this conversation doesn’t shy away from the tough topics: we unpack systemic racism, cultural appropriation, and how this generation must come to terms with the past discretions woven through America’s food history and culture.

It’s raw, reflective, and redemptive a conversation about healing through honesty, heritage, and the shared language of food and music.

🎧 Listen as we talk legacy, flavor, and finding your beat when the world goes silent.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you, chef. Thank you.
That was awesome. And thank you.
That was a lot of fun. Yeah, I was.
I was hoping to get the only segue that I missed out.
And there was I was, I was talking about the song that
changed my life. But we didn't get any music that
in in that level but. You're.
In Minneapolis? You're in Minneapolis now,
right? Yeah.
So like, Minneapolis is one of my favorite hip hop scenes, you

(00:21):
know, Slug and Ant and Brother Ali and Prof and so.
So Brother Ali, Uncle Sam, Goddamn is the song that changed
my life as a as a white man. Welcome to the United Snakes.
Land of the thief, home of the slave.
Bloodshed, genocide, rape and fraud.
Written to the pages of the law.Good law.

(00:42):
So, so talk to me. Talk to me about Brother Ali's
song. Talk to me about.
Yeah, man, Have you? Have you?
Have you got into him much? Oh yeah.
Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, no,
Uncle Sam. God damn.
I mean, like, when, when that whole track is just, and I play
it for everybody, Like it's justone of those you, you want to,
you want to know where my head'sat, That's where my head's at.
You know, it's like, you know, Iwas raised not good.

(01:07):
You know, I was raised by, I mean, I was raised by loving
good people. My grandmother wasn't a very
sweet, loving person, but she was racist as shit.
I mean, think about it. She was born in, you know, the
19 teens or 1920 or whatever JimCrow S like I Ioffer no excuse
to being molded into your environment.

(01:28):
But I mean, even Bruce Lee said,you know, it's like you're like
water, man. You get poured into the glass.
It's. Right, right.
You're there, you know, it's like, but I mean, me going to
the military at age 17 and, and being thrust into these, you
know, multiracial units and, and, and peer groups and things
like that. It, it changed everything, you

(01:50):
know, and it's just a big part of, of and, and this the, the
new project that I'm working on now is called the sins of our
Grandmothers. And, and it, it's really kind of
deep diving into that, you know,having, you know, it's not about
mom because we didn't listen to mom, like we didn't listen to
dad like, but, but grandma, we listened to grandma like that

(02:13):
was and, and, and I know she wasn't trying to do it out of
spite. And like in seeds, I haven't
kind of touched on that, that innocent racism, you know, that.
And I know from from a black man's point of view, that may be
just like an idiotic statement, you know, but from a, from a
white dude, white Southern dude's point of view, it's like,
man, this, this shit was, we were born into it, but we're

(02:38):
trying to change that. You know what takes a special
track to do this? My Mama BS and Q Shrimp.
The sauce. It's just the flu with this
chef. I need to remind y'all I'm sick
with it. My name is Doctor Hot.
It's you sick with this meaning it's one of the same.
Simple and plain. I'm all about my paper, the
bacon, cheddar and pain. Got these lanes running for the
border? The talents in Mr. Porter keep

(03:00):
it flowing like it's water. Here we go.
Here we go creeping to a low speed.
Is it him and his friend sittingin the nosebleeds?
Play it cool. He is special.
Just because he's on TV, everybody's hands up acting like
they know. Welcome, welcome, welcome,
welcome everybody to another episode of the taste music here

(03:22):
food podcast show. I am your host Ed Porter, and
this is the destination for food, music and culture and how
they all connect. Today we have an amazing guest,
a a true patriot slash slash slash slash this.

(03:43):
This guy here is definitely a living testament to follow your
heart and dreams, period. So I'm going to attempt to pay
this gentleman the flowers he sograciously deserves with his
intro. So here we go.
Today's guest has lived 9 lives before most people even think of

(04:07):
a second act. He's been a soldier, a
firefighter, A bodyguard, A musician, and now one of the
boldest culinary voices in East Texas.
From the battlefield to the backof the kitchen, from washing
dishes at 13 to earning a Wine Spectator award, this man has
turned grit into gastronomy. As his restaurant Heritage East

(04:29):
and Speakeasy The Plaid Rabbit, he's rewriting what Southern
food means, mixing global influence with deep rooted East
Texas soul. We're talking legacy, flavor,
and finding your rhythm in the chaos of life and cuisine.
Please welcome an Army and Navy veteran, the Prince of Pork

(04:51):
himself, Chef Lance Mcwater. What is up dude?
That, That was all the hair standing up on my arms right
now. That guy is cool.
I want to hang with that guy. He's skinny though.
Like, I feel like I'm so much fatter and older now, you know?
First and foremost, thank you for your service.

(05:12):
Yeah, my pleasure. I don't, I don't think enough
these days. Enough reverence goes into the
men and women in in the military.
I've had some family members obviously that have served.
I thought about it for a while. You know, I almost got sucked.
And actually I remember the newspaper ad.
It was come cook, see the world.And then I showed up as the Navy

(05:34):
recruiting office. I gingerly walk right past that
shit so. You didn't miss much.
I mean, like traveling around the places was really cool, but
the, the, the long, long weeks and days of bobbing around in
the ocean, you know, I, I. Eventually did that.
I worked on cruise ships. So I, I, I got my, I, I did it,

(05:56):
You know, I, I'm guessing the benefits in the Navy were way
better. So it is what it is.
Yeah. First of thank.
Thank you for being here, too. This is something that we, we,
we talked about a little while ago and we, I'm glad we finally
got to make it happen. So let's jump right in, man.
So again, like I said in the intro, you've, you've lived
about 5 different lives, you know, and then you came back to,

(06:22):
to actually making food your calling card.
What was there a meal? Or was there an instance that
snapped in your head that this was going to be your voice?
Yeah, kinda it's, it's kind of a, you know, cooking was always

(06:45):
my jam. I always loved it.
You know, you know, growing up, I worked in restaurants 'cause I
was kind of a in and out of homelessness kid and, you know,
in and out of trouble. And every time that I wasn't in
trouble, I didn't have a secure place to stay.
And so it started out as, as just a paycheck and, and food,
you know, you always had food ifyou were working at a
restaurant. And so it started young and then

(07:07):
went in the military and, and, and kept cooking.
You know, I got, I was when I, when I went in the Navy, I was
stationed in Hawaii. So I mean, you know, talk about
a, a food Mecca, you know, the seafood.
And I was friends with chefs andI was friends with bartenders
and commercial fishermen and, you know, good out of the pier
with a 12 pack of beer and somebody's pulling, you know, a

(07:28):
first mate's pulling fresh Ono off the boat.
We're cutting chunks of tail outof it and sitting there on the
pier and, and food was just always so cool, you know, and
then like when I got out and I was firefighter, that was a huge
part of station life was cooking.
And early on in my career, when I was still a probationary
firefighter, it's like you don'thave a bid station.

(07:50):
So they drove you around, you know, and, and everybody started
kind of passing it around that, hey, man, this kid can cook, you
know. So I started getting a request
for like all the bougie stationsfor them to put me there.
And but, yeah, I mean, one day Iwas sitting in Iraq.
Years later, I'd gone back over as a high threat security
contractor working for the StateDepartment, working for the
Department of Defense. And we are running missions out

(08:13):
and around Iraq and in Baghdad. And I just remember we were
running these, you know, like, man, I don't even know what I
can say about him. I've been involved a lot of
taxpayer money. And I don't know if you've ever
seen that old movie Tombstone, you know, But when Doc Holiday
shoots Johnny Ringo and he pullsthe badge off and he puts it on
Johnny Ringo's chest and Pats it, and he goes, my hypocrisy

(08:36):
only goes so far, you know? And I was kind of like, I kind
of hit that moment, you know, and I'm pushing 40 years old and
I'm like, I don't want to do this anymore, you know, Like,
what do I want to do? I want to cook.
So you know, I took like AI don't know, 100 and some odd
$1000 a year pay cut and went towork as a line cook at age 40.

(08:59):
Yeah, yeah. Listen, First off, real life
Jason Bourne is a is no, it's. It's crazy, crazy work.
Alright, so Army, Navy firefighter, securities expert

(09:24):
contracted speak to me about theparallels or, or the, the, the
different things that actually suited you well from that chaos
to the chaos of the kitchen, because I'm pretty sure, and you
probably know this better than Ido, there's, I know there's a,

(09:45):
there's a chaos in the restaurant.
There's got to be some sort of things that you are better
suited at to be able to deal with those stresses.
Again, we're not curing cancer. It's not heart surgery, but it
is a stressful situation. Obviously not as stressful as
being anywhere in a bunk or somewhere you know, I mean it.

(10:06):
It's it's, it's one of those that, yeah, there, there's
plenty of similarities. And I mean, that's kind of where
the whole basis of, you know, Escoffier and the brigade and
the military hierarchical structure of of kitchens down to
the uniform. Yeah.
I mean that that's, that's all, that's where it all comes from
because it works. It works and, and you know, the
peak of stressful activity in situations and it's just, you

(10:28):
know, the, you know, a bunch of years back when I filmed my
Chopped episode, when they released that season, they in,
in the commercial throughout thewhole season, they had a, a, a
voice blurb of mine where I go, it's hot, it's fast, it's loud.
You know, it's like it's, there's and that was like the,
the little blurb in all the commercials and, and it really
is, you know, it's hot, it's fast, it's loud, it's crazy,

(10:51):
it's madness sometimes. And a lot of people don't
understand the the stresses of that.
And, you know, especially in in an upscale type of environment
where you're really, you're not just trying to crank food out,
but you're trying to crank special food out presented in a
special manner. And you know, and, and keep
that, that, that consistency up from dish to dish while, you

(11:16):
know, everything's on fire behind you.
So I mean, it's, it's, it's seamless integration.
And that was kind of, you know, like the chop thing.
I, I really didn't want to go on.
I didn't want to be like a game show cook or anything like that.
But my wife was like, you know, you're always talking about, you
know, how well suited veterans are for the kitchen.

(11:37):
She goes, what better platform for you to tell people that, you
know, and I'm like, you're right, you know, it's a so that
was kind of the whole purpose ofdoing that is that I really just
wanted to inspire other veteransto get out of their heads.
Because I mean, when I, when I came back from Iraq and started
cooking, the first 6-8 months, Ididn't know.
I was like, I don't know if thisis for me, you know, and I kind

(11:59):
of gave it up for a SEC and and put myself in a bottle and and
got in bad headspace, you know, like so many of us veterans do,
you know, the 22 a day that thatI'm alive themselves and and I
several occasions almost became one of them, you know, And then
a chef friend of mine, Sidney Cook, remarkable chef, came up

(12:23):
the New Orleans scene. And then we were in the Hill
Country together here in Texas. And she came over to my house
one day and she goes, Hey, I'm the executive chef of this new
restaurant. She goes, you're going to be my
chef to cuisine, whether you like it or not.
This is what you need to do. And so I kind of feel like me
going on Chopped and kind of telling veterans that this is a
very viable thing for you to do was kind of continuing that that

(12:49):
that act of grace got you from Chef Sydney, that that saved my
life. Absolutely.
And 22 a day is that that's insane to really think of, to
really wrap your head around that.
It's it's insane. And that's again, lack of

(13:10):
acknowledgement, you know, as a society, that's that's, that's.
Lack of mental health care, Yeah.
I mean, it's insane. You know, it is, you know, out
here anywhere really. I mean, there's a lack of mental
health professionals, there's a lack of mental health systems
and infrastructure. And I mean, I know out here
with, you know, I've got, I'm a poor cook still, you know, it's

(13:32):
like I've got ACA insurance, which isn't bad, but you know, I
know that the waiting list for mental health here is, you know,
12 to 18 months just to go see atherapy.
That's crazy. It's.
The wrap around service is not much better.
Yeah, wrap around services needsto be changed.
You've been quoted as saying that restaurants are, you know,
home for wayward kids. Yeah.

(13:53):
And now? Absolutely.
And I know this well, it is, it's, it's the just the God's
honest truth. But what is your philosophy
today as being a chef and a leader and you're also leading
other wayward kids, you know, inthe kitchen?
How? How?
What's your approach to that? I think just being really

(14:15):
honest, you know, and, and, and setting the proper expectations
for, you know, as a leader, as achef, as a business owner, you
know, the the first couple of years that I was open when it
was still culture, it was, it was tough because I was coming
out of these Dallas kitchens that were just, you know, crazy
good. I mean, now they're all, you
know, Michelin Dow. Back then they were James Beard

(14:36):
nods and food and wine, best newchefs and things like that.
And, you know, I came from this environment in a city that had
incredible driven talent, you know, and there was a row of
people that were lined up to tryand get jobs in these places.
You know, So when, when I moved out of Dallas and came out here
and opened up my own spot, I hadthose expectations of, of

(14:59):
working around people like that,these driven and just, you know,
hyper focused and, and the, the people that are willing to go in
there and churn 80 hours a week for, you know, not a lot of
money because we can't afford itas chef owned joints and, you
know. Different mindset.
Different. Yeah.
I mean like. After a year or so I remember my

(15:19):
wife just stopped me. She goes, she goes, Lance, like
you can't expect these people tobe you.
And I went, you know. I get that, I didn't ask.
So it's usually the women in your life that my wife.
My wife has the same. She's spot on, correct, You
know, and, and so I mean, I think to answer your questions,
it's like first you have to realize that you have to realize

(15:42):
what you want to do may not be what a, what you were able to
do. You know, it's like, I want to
cook to this level. Well, you know what, you can't
force people to go along with that.
You have to inspire them to attain that same level of, of
dedication and, and, and pride and, and focus and sense of
urgency. You have to be able to inspire

(16:02):
them to do that. You know, it's so so it's not
like this instant thing, you know, the where you just like
I'm going to hang the shingle upand, you know, screw some
medicine bulbs into the light pictures and then BAM, you know,
it's like we're we're you know, it's it's like watching burnt.
You know, it's like mixing, you know, Michelin guides there.
And oh boy, I'm really glad that, you know, my girlfriend
brought in this old, you know, aNova sous video head, you know,

(16:25):
like. I think for you though, and
most, I think most chefs, most creatives don't really think
about their journey as the motivational tool.
So really, honestly, if you wanted to truly motivate a young

(16:46):
culinarian, tell me your story. You kicked off your, you kicked
off your career at the tender age of 39, right?
So and. Anybody can do it.
And so the fact is what you whatyou're going to need an
intensive amount of of, of dedication and sign up to be a
forever student and put your head down it and you got to

(17:08):
grind like there's, there's, there's no, it's like, say what
you want about steroids and all that other shit, right?
But here's the here's the other part of that.
They still got to lift the weights, right?
There's no there's. No.
There's no other, there's no other way to do it.
There's there's no other way to do it.
You still got to do the work andyou cannot be upset about the

(17:28):
results you didn't get from the work you didn't do.
And I think it's more so today than than ever.
The youth need that like, 'causethere's so many, there's so
many, they're so impatient, right?
Like they don't, they don't have, they don't watch
commercials. Like, like it's everything is
everything is, you know, fast track for them.
Everything is fast track. Like, I remember, you know, I
got to wait. You got to wait for, you know,

(17:51):
for the show to come back on. But now you can skip pretty much
everything except life. You cannot skip.
There's no shortcuts. There's no shortcuts and.
The literally the only thing I would add to that is, is, is a
huge dose of humility, you know,just being able to strip the ego
from the self and from the food and from the, the walls and the,

(18:13):
and the glassware and whatever, you know, is, is it's really
important that you go into whatever situation you're doing
with a lot of humility. And, and a lot of you know, I'm
not the best cook in the world. I'm not the, the best chef.
I'm not the best leader. I'm not the best friend, the
best whatever, you know, becausethat's where you set up your
path to, to learning and really being able to function as a

(18:36):
leader is, is understanding yourown weaknesses, how you overcome
them from a day-to-day standpoint and, and how you
still managed to wade through itall and, and get done the things
that need to get done because itends with you.
You know, it's like when you when you own that place, it is
yours. It is.
There is no, you know, throwing your hands up in the air and

(18:59):
going, I don't know what to do. Yeah, absolutely.
Fish. Fish stinks from the head.
This is what it is. All right.
What about now? We're going to play a little
game called One's Gotta go. All right, let's do it.
OK, so in this, I'm going to give you 3 options of a

(19:21):
question. You got to just pick one to
eliminate. Very simple.
Very simple. All right, so easy.
This one. Which track leaves the kitchen
playlist for you? All right, Princess Purple Rain,
Metallica's Enter Sandman or Outcast.
So fresh, so clean. Was so fresh, so clean by a

(19:41):
mile. That's I'm a head.
I'm a hip hop head man. That's that's my music.
Oh, no, no, no. When's which one got to go?
Oh, which one? Got to go?
Yeah. See, then you thought it was
that easy. Sandman.
Yeah, yeah, it's a Sandman. OK.
All right. Yeah, Cool.
Yeah. Cool, Sandman's got to go.
Prince. Prince is the GOAT of of all
music. Understood all the.
Time. So yeah, no.
So I got to also preface this that you're also a musician too.

(20:05):
So what? Yeah.
Yeah. So that's the Yeah, I know
they're listed in the in the, the, the, the, the, the epitaph
of, of stuff that you did. But you're also a musician.
All right. Yeah.
What sound could you live without?
The sizzle of cast iron, the popof vinyl, or the hum of a
service at full throttle, they're all sweet sounds to me.

(20:29):
I think I'd I would have to get rid of hum of service like
because that's kind of the only one to me that's droning.
The sizzle of sizzle of cast iron is like like the hum of
service kind of drags time out. You know, the sizzle of cast
iron is kind of like, all right,let's go.
You know, now it's it's startingsome fires going to spit up and
the pop a vinyl is something great to come.

(20:49):
You know, I mean, that's like when that you know that audio
Technica needle hits the the hits the record.
It's just like you get that. Absolutely.
Oh, there's no no sweetest sound.
And then what a lot of people don't understand that's not in
the industry. A lot of the cooking that we do
is buy sound, sound, feel and touch.
So like we we know certain things are are getting close to
a certain point based on how youknow, audibly they sound.

(21:12):
All right. OK, which East Texas flavor
could you live without? No love lost Pittsburgh Peaches,
noonday sweet onions or homegrown okra from Tyler.
Oh man. Yeah, I know.

(21:33):
I would give it like if I give up noonday onions I can get
regular ass onions right? Yeah, but they don't taste the
same. Yeah, I know.
But if I had to give up one of those, it would it would be
noonday onions. OK, although noonday onions are
dope. They're like.
They're they're amazing. They're fucking amazing.
Yeah, those Peaches are, yeah, non negotiable, like non
negotiable, yeah. I've, I've got, I've got a, I've
got a, all my Peaches come from a farm in Winona and which, so

(21:56):
it's just north of here, not quite as far as Pittsburgh, but
their Peaches are killer too. Just absolutely amazing.
And the guy grows like the, whatdo you call it, the like the
THCA, you know, So he's got a whole other farm that's not
Peaches. And it's it's pretty cool to go
explore in those greenhouses. Understood.
Understood. OK.
All right. That, that, that has been one's

(22:18):
got to go. All right, so you said you've
gone through because you're a music guy, right?
And you said everything in your restaurant is pretty much set to
a soundtrack like your, your, your whole approach to your
whole ecosystem is pretty much set to music of some sort, at

(22:41):
least at least internally, right?
What would you say? The kitchen soundtrack would be
for your state of flow from where you are now to where you
are when you started. Because you went to a
restaurant, you did a whole revamp of your restaurant.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did a complete concept shift
after Year 5, like I was just like, and you were.
So it's time. And you were thriving restaurant

(23:03):
that did that? Yeah, it wasn't.
It was great. And so.
There was nothing wrong with it.Was not broke, had to fix it,
you know. So what would you say from then
to now would be that's narratingsoundtrack for for your your
restaurant concept? Well, it's, it's open kitchen,

(23:24):
you know, so I mean, it's whatever they're listening to in
the dining room is what we listen to in the kitchen.
So I mean, it's even better. OK.
So it's usually a little louder.So I mean, it, it, it's a true
soundtrack. Like, like I play what I what I
want to listen to. And, you know, all my employees
will tell you that the quickest way to get fired is to put
country on my radio. Like, that's it.

(23:45):
That's a deal breaker. Like, you're like, like Padma
walks in from the dish pit and it's like, please take your
knives and cut. You know the OK, So what?
What is What is a? What is a a typical Thursday
night sound like? Now, you know, like during the
culture years, it was like I wasa little more kind of abrasive
and a little more, I don't know,maybe egocentric or something

(24:07):
like that when it came to the environment.
So I would play a lot of, you know, like 90s hip hop, like
that's, that's my stuff, you know, And so I would try and
kind of keep it as clean as possible.
But I mean, you know, it was still, it was still playing 90s,
you know, like a more, more EastCoast then West.
And, but now since I made the switch, it's like I kind of

(24:28):
upscaled it a little bit. So it's, you know, a little more
classy and, and you know, I'm a little older and a little wiser.
And, and so now it's kind of like I kind of do a lot more
trip hop now, you know, like youkind of go back into the into
the 90s trip hop and get into ohman, like Portishead and you

(24:49):
know, like this kind of vibe. I get, I think I think that's
awesome. And we talked before about and
we're going to get into a littlemore about why the switching to
change and all those things comeabout.
But when you're building flavor,would you say that currently at

(25:13):
Heritage, you're composing your your your food in the order, all
around vibe of the, the, the experience more so like is it,
is it, is it more jazz? Is it more improvisational?
Is it more more feeling driven more about the rhythm?

(25:36):
What? What is the?
What is the pulse of? Why?
It's it's kind of all of those things and you know, it, it,
it's really spontaneous, but it's really kind of memory
driven from the few childhood memories that I have that were
good, you know, cooking with my grandmother and my great
grandmother just so so the vibe when we're creating something

(26:00):
new is really improvisational. It's like I'll have a farmer say
I have this or, or I just see a product and I'm like, I want to,
I'm going to do something with this, you know, or like right
now it's fall and I haven't madea post with this dish yet, but
you know, I just told my soup chef, Dylan Sexton, and I was
just like Dylan, I kind of had this idea like Delicata squash
is coming up and I want to hollow one out and stuff it with

(26:22):
something, you know, and, and usually it's a one and done like
like we'll just come up with something and, and, and just
throw it on the menu. Like it there's we don't do a
lot of development for for dishes.
It's like, I kind of feel like when, when you, when you get
into that, just, you know, you see, you know, grand hackets
with the notepad and the whiteboard and you know, they're

(26:44):
breaking things down to the like, I, I can't do that.
You know, it's like, I don't think I have the available RAM
left in my head. You know, it's been been bonked
on it too many times, but it's, you know, it's just very
improvisational. So I mean, it's in to me that's
that's, you know, indicative of cooking from the heart.
And that's, you know, kind of emulating like grandma's

(27:04):
cooking. And and so, you know, we did
this delicata squash and, and this was the only one that in
recent history that we changed something in because originally
I'm like, oh, I've got these lentils that have been laying
around. I'm gonna stuff it with lentils
and, you know, some Fentons, youknow, aged ham, and I'm doing a,
an Ala goat out of Anson Mills, Johnny Red corn, grits and

(27:27):
gruyere. So, you know, like the
traditional potato Ala goat where you're, you know, scooping
the cheese out of the pot tableside.
I mean, we're doing that with grits and gruyere and we wound
up stuffing it with ferro Verde instead.
So it's just, you know. Yeah, I'm not trying to just a
wild, I'm not trying to be hungry.
But you, you, you, you are helping.
You're helping. It's good.
To be hungry, like, like it's, it turned out really good.

(27:50):
Like I was surprised. It sounded very good.
Sounds extremely good. All right, so let's let's talk
about why the switch. Why did you decide after Year 5
to switch from culture to heritage?
It was, it was a long time coming, man.
I mean, it's, you know, culture ETX, which is, you know, culture

(28:13):
East Texas. And when it when I first opened
up, you know, I think one of thefirst reviews that I ever got,
it was like some guy like, boy, I don't know what this guy's
talking about. He goes, this sure ain't ETX
culture. You know, this, this isn't East
Texas culture. This is something else.
And I'm like kind of exactly, man, like I'm kind of bringing
some other stuff and smashing ittogether.
Like, you know the point, but itreally was it was a culture was

(28:37):
a mash up of all the places thatI traveled and I've been to like
40 something countries and I've never stepped foot in Europe or
the UK. So it's all of mine have been
Middle East, Far East, you know,Pacific Rim, Central and South
America, like all these really vibrant flavors.
So a lot of Middle Eastern influence went into cultures

(28:59):
food, because I've lived there for years, you know, and it just
kind of, I won't say it got old,but it's just there was some it
wasn't my story, you know, and Ithink it's like when you when
you hit that point as a chef andlike when you start really
getting creative and you start getting into your jam and you
always hear these like, you know, three star Michelin dudes,

(29:21):
you know, you always hear Kellerand and and you know, all these
guys going, you know, it's, it'sabout telling your story, man.
It's like it's not about, you know, you know, was it a Marco
Pierre White said. You know, it's not about, you
know, putting dots and lines on a plate.
You know, it's about, you know, treating, treating the food.
Mother Nature is the true artist, you know, And it's just,

(29:42):
I kind of got into that vibe. And, and we were coming up on
the fifth year anniversary, which was August of last year.
And I was kind of, I won't say Iwas kind of burned out maybe a
little, but I was just like, dude, it's so expensive to, to
do this restaurant. Like it's, you can see in that
video that's playing now. It's like, it's so small.

(30:02):
I have 10 tables inside. I have 6 patio tables that I'm
lucky to fill, you know, except for a few times a year because
of weather. And I'm like, I could turn this
place into a grilled cheese sandwich restaurant, you know,
with a Speakeasy bar in the backand make 1000 times more money
than I make now. You know, it's like I, I just, I

(30:27):
kind of thought about going thatroute, you know, and just kind
of just I that's not really selling out, but I mean, it's
just kind of a smart business decision today, I guess, you
know, and but you know, be me, being me, I can't have that.
So, you know, there was a, therewas a lot of buzz last year.

(30:48):
I mean, you know, there was there was people that were
reaching out that that kind of built me back up and I just
went, all right, cool. I'm like, I announced we're
going to completely change the whole thing.
And we did the decor, the paint,the ceiling, the, you know, we
went from QRS to regular menus and just went this East Texas

(31:08):
centric food. And to me, that was like, that
was my that was my family story.You know, the family that I had
that the summers that I rememberas a kid, we're in Athens, which
is right next door to Tyler. And this was just always home.
You know, this was always the Taste of Home.
It's my earliest memories of cooking.
We're in my great grandmother's farmhouse here in Athens.

(31:32):
And, and I think it's just my story found me, you know,
eventually, you know, and, and Ifound myself really wanting to
explore local ingredients and explore those dishes that were
so simple, right? And trying to elevate those.
Got you so in in doing that. And again, you know, I was

(31:55):
fortunate enough to, to read your, your essay seeds while you
were on this, this, this journeyto really dig deep into, you
know, the, the foods that you find the most comforting and,
and, and near and dear to your heart.

(32:15):
Talk to me about, you know, thatdiscovery and what, what led you
to, to really decide to be a beacon of light and, and one of
just spreading information. Because the one thing I think as
even as culinarians, most most of us are not too ingrained in

(32:37):
to the history and knowledge of even the things that we touch on
a daily basis or not the true origins.
So yeah. And that was kind of like a
collaboration between my old life because I was, I was
usually like the Intel guy on our teams when I was in in Iraq.
So I was always doing all, you know, Jason.
More and the mapping and then this and that.
No, but not that kind of Intel like, I mean like the boring

(32:59):
stuff, you know, and just sit infront of a computer and and some
nerdy office somewhere. But I mean, I always loved, you
know, history and research and and writing.
I love to write, but, you know, it's just tough for me to get my
brain to be quiet long enough toput thoughts on paper.
So, yeah, the, the essay that that you mentioned, it's called

(33:19):
Seeds. And it's like a chef's journey
to discover the roots of East Texas cuisine.
And there's a lot that went on there.
It's we've just done Heritage. We've been going for a few
months and it was really going well.
And out in Atlanta, GA, they had, it was like a writers
conference kind of media missionwhere they had invited the the

(33:45):
Texas visitors board to select five cities from the state.
And then they selected a chef from each one of those cities to
go out and represent their region.
And they tried to get, you know,really distinct regions.
And East Texas is definitely that.
It is so completely opposite to the rest of Texas's food.

(34:06):
But you know, there was like, like got land Seeker was out
there from Frederick Berlic BBQ chef Nicola Black from San
Antonio, who's absolutely amazing.
It, it was a good time, you know, and, but I was on my way
out there and I knew it was going to be like a 5 station
kind of round table. You'd have a group of four or
five food writers or travel writers that would go from

(34:27):
station to station. So I knew I had to give a pitch
like 5 different times. And I was like, man, I don't.
I made like the smoked. It's like smoked and then beer
braised lamb shoulder with red beans and rice.
Like it's this really kind of epic sleeper dish that's on the
menu. And I was going to make that,
but I didn't want to go out there and just be like, here's a

(34:48):
bowl of red beans and rice because that's what we eat here,
you know, So it's like, so we, we just drove out, you know, me
and the, and the, the visit Tyler lady at the time, her name
was Diane Bayes. And we just drove out because
we're just like, man, it's only,you know, 9 hours, 10 hours.
And by the time you mess with the restaurant and food and I or

(35:10):
with, with food and the airport and, you know, trying to fly and
get in and out and then repeat. And I'm like, easier just to
drive, you know, And so we're driving out there and this
thought hits me of, of all right, what can I do?
And I'm like, I'm going to make just like a little slideshow on
my iPad and I'll have it, you know, just cycling through
pictures as I'm talking about food in East Texas.

(35:32):
And so I started cycling throughstuff and I started looking at
how do I describe East Texas cuisine?
Because a lot of my Dallas chef friends from when I come up
with, you know, they're like, what is it?
You know, And so it's kind of like soul food meets Cajun, but
not, you know, and the closest comparison that I could find was

(35:54):
Lowcountry in, in, in South Carolina.
And I was kind of like, why? You know, like that doesn't make
sense. It's, it's, it's a little bit
different. You know, they're a little
heavier on the coastal seafood. We're a little heavier on beef.
We kind of, we do, we do rice grits are a lot more prevalent
than rice. But it's so similar, you know?

(36:16):
And I was like, why? And then I started reading into
kind of the two foods. And then I'm like, what
connected the two places? And then it was the river, man.
It was the river and it was the Bayou.
And it was slave ships that wentfrom Charleston, SC and in New
Orleans and then paddle Wheelersthat went up the Mississippi, up
the Red River into Nakadich, which was the, you know, further

(36:40):
most western hub of the enslavement of African people.
And then there was a very far inland western port in the port
town of Jefferson, which is not far from here and in Shreveport.
And so I was like, there it is, you know, it, it, this, this is
the food of enslaved African people, you know, And, and

(37:02):
that's where it came from. And I really started digging
into that and I and I started looking for stories and looking
for more connections and, and the connections of the food, you
know, so I went back and I watched a couple old episodes
that I'd remembered the mind of a chef, you know, Anthony
Bourdain's produced show that hedid for PBS years ago.
Incredibly good series, you know, but there was, I think was

(37:23):
season 2 with Sean Brock and he's out with Glenn Robertson,
Anson Mills and John Coykendall,who's like the seed expert and
seed historian. And you know, and they're
talking about the origin of all these foods that we eat.
You know, for them it was a low country, but for us it was the
same thing. The okra, the peas, the, you

(37:44):
know, the, the collar grams, theevery single thing.
And then so I started real, you know, reading, how did the food
travel? You know, and that's where the
seeds name came from is it was all about the sea.
I wanted to find the seeds. Right.
And I discovered these stories of people that are being
stripped from their homes, and this shit chokes me up, you
know? But they would braid the seeds

(38:06):
into their hair. You know, like, imagine that
being the one thing that you grab.
Yeah, is that seed? You know, they're coming to get
you, you know, what am I going to get?
You know, shit, I'm getting a gun, man.
Like, screw this, you know? But imagine that being your
people's identity to the point of if you had one thing to grab,

(38:29):
it would be your family seats. And they made it all the way
here, you know? It's deep.
No, it's, it's a, it's a very, it's very deep and.
It is, but it but that that's what became the story and that's
what really kind of sparked this, this this conversation
that, you know, I really want tohave the people it needs.

(38:52):
It needs to happen. It needs to be not addressed,
but just recognized and respected and.
Yeah, and it's, and it's so it'sso vastly different that I'm
sure then how you grew up knowing these things and what
you were taught and just the thesurrounding areas like these

(39:12):
things were never addressed. I'm sure.
How did you know your inner sanctum, your inner circle, your
wife, your team? How did they handle the switch?
And they did it, did it, did it work right away?
Was this did it? Did you there?
Was no choice. Yeah, Yeah, there was, man.

(39:32):
We we did the switch. And I wish, I wish I could just
get Dylan, my sous chef, on the phone right now.
You had the switch, man. It was.
We switched on a Friday, which was probably not a good idea,
but, you know, I'm not known formy epic decisions.
Yeah, third dude, Friday afternoon after lunch service,

(39:53):
the sign people came in with their razors and stripped all
the old stickers off the glass and put up the new ones.
All the QR codes came off the tables and you know, and did
you? Did you ever make an
announcement or you just did it?Yeah, yeah.
Yeah. No.
Well, I didn't announce when we were going to do it.
But it was coming. Yeah, the people knew it was
coming. They just didn't know when we

(40:13):
were going to drop it. And so it's just one Friday.
I'm like, all right, we're doingit.
And they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, we're doing it.
You know, it's like we we were prepped up, you know, we're it,
it was, it was good, but nobody knew how to cook anything.
You know, it's which is like I said, it's kind of just my trial
by fire way of doing things. I was like, all right, it's
live, man. Like so every time a new dish

(40:35):
would come in, I would go over there and be like, all right,
we're going to do this, this, this, this, this, not this one.
We're going to cook this way. And you know, plating it up.
It's like it's three or four or five different ways until you
figure it out. All right, This is how this is,
you know, and it's but it's justsuper organic like that.
It was a riot. I love it.
So much fun. No, no, that's that is that is
fun. That is fun as as a chef, as a

(40:59):
veteran, as a Southerner. How do you define belonging
through food? You know there's going to be so
bad. You know, there's going to be
some deep questions. No, that's, that's a good one.
Like finding your belonging. I mean, it's, it's one of those

(41:20):
things, it's it, you have to have reached a point in your
life where you can be honest with yourself, you know, and you
really have to look past the, the, the traditional execution
in the, the minutiae of detail that goes into everything.
And you have to go with your heart, you know, you have to go
with your memories. And one of the things that we

(41:45):
did, one of the, one of the kindof newer dishes is I do this,
it's called C&D on the menu. And it's, it's ricotta gnocchi
dumpling. And then it's like, you know,
just rock your regular chicken and dumplings, mix local chicken
and mirepoix and you know, like blue Tay and all that.
But you know, when Mama made that, you know, it's like it was

(42:08):
boiling chicken and water, put in a scoop of flour and you
know, she's making dumplings by hand and the, and the veggies in
there were always undercooked. You know, like that's just
grandma's chicken and dumplings.Like, you know, when you eat it,
it's going to be like crunch, crunch, crunch, crunch, you
know, like that onions undercooked, you know, And I
remember the first time that we ever made it, I looked at Dylan

(42:28):
was on pans, and I looked at Dylan and I go undercook the
veg. Yeah.
And he's like, what? I go undercook the veg.
I'm like just, you know, we're not going for soft.
We're going for a little translucent like they need to be
done, but. That's.
It And so he undercooked them and we ate it and every single
one of us like this. Is it?

(42:48):
That's it, you know, and I think, I think to answer your
question, it's kind of being able to do things like that,
like, like, you know, that it's not necessarily the right way,
but it's invoking that, that emotional response, that
ratatouille moment, you know, where the food writer goes.
Well, no, no. So he's.
He's a little kid in the window.It's a lot like it's, it's I

(43:09):
like and it's music, right? So there's, there's a lot of
times in, in jazz where the notes of the chords are actually
not right, they're off, they're sharp, right, or whatever the
case may be. But it's more about the feeling.
So we're going for feeling not and less about being technically
sound. Everybody can, you know, can

(43:29):
play notes right. But can you evoke feeling?
And that emotional connection tofood and music are just that.
Like when you have that, that isthe secret sauce.
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
It sounds cliche, but I mean, itis that secret sauce.
Is is is love. It's emotion.
It is, it's it's it's sharing your memory with others through

(43:54):
this medium that is beautiful and delicious.
You know, like I'm like, Oh my God, did I just quote Fancy
chef? Beautiful and delicious,
beautiful and delicious, beautiful and.
Delicious, you're going to assume.
Yes, yes, beautiful and delicious.
That's hilarious. Oh my God, Prince, never going

(44:16):
to let me live that one down. No, no, no, no, Brent.
Yeah, Brent's going to be all over you for that.
Let's talk Texas bucket list because I'm going to do
something. I'm going to do something
because I, I know a guy like youis, is not too high on on, on,
on too much of this. So I'm going to, I'm going to do
it for you. All right, so best bite of the

(44:38):
season, which is not a small feat.
Yeah, that was cool. That's so cool.
That was. That's so cool.
Yeah, it was, it was fun, man. Like that was, it was a shock,
you know, I never thought, I mean, I never thought that that
we'd, you know, take the whole thing, you know?
What what was the secret of thatdish?
Was it was it, was it love? Was it smoke?
Yeah, or pure stuff? Pork chop.

(44:59):
Was it something that pork chop?I know, but but again, so being
just a, a, a, a, a pork chop, you know, there's I think First
off, my in my belief, a lot of most of the best things that
we've ever eaten, and you just said this earlier are the
simplest. And it's just, it's just a

(45:20):
little bit of actually a lot of it in know how and the fact of
you're going for these emotionalgrabbing, you know, responses.
So what, what was that? You know what was that?
The whole, the whole dish is a story from some farmer friends

(45:40):
of ours, you know, and it's we were out there looking at pigs.
It was for we were getting readyfor Cochon 555, which is, you
know, the crowning achievement of my life.
Still those days. It's got to be the thing I'm
most proud of. But we were out there looking at
the Cochon pig and making some plans for that.
And they're in this little town called Crockett, which is a
little way South of here. Green Canopy.

(46:03):
It's kind of on the edge of the big thicket.
So you have not all the Pines like we have here a few, but,
you know, big oak trees and undergrowth and the pigs are out
there just running around, you know, and it's kind of when I
was doing that pork chop dish, and that was just the pork chop
dish off my menu. I didn't do anything special for
them or, you know, it's just like what I make everybody else.

(46:23):
And so I mean, I did harissa on the plate, which is, you know,
like this. I did this like Texasized
version of of, you know, this North African red pepper paste.
So it's a little spicy, it's a little smoky.
But the red dirt, you know, was the Carissa and then the, the,
the chop was the pig laying in the dirt.

(46:43):
And then the, the baby mustard greens are like the little
undergrowth canopy. The charred green onions are
just like the trees and the branches.
And then I, I, I think what really makes that chop.
And I will credit this one to mywife Bailey, whom through all
things are possible when we werefirst tried that dish.

(47:07):
She's like, it's missing something.
I'm like, I know it's missing something.
I don't know what it is. And she goes fennel and and and
I was like, fennel. Yeah.
I'm like fennel pollen, you know, I'm like, grab it.
And that's, you can see that dust on there.
It's that fennel pollen. That fennel pollen gives you the
smell of that force, you know, So it's like when you eat it,
it's it's it's really it's the most composed, like uncomposed.

(47:29):
It's the most complicated. Just.
Yeah. And and that's, that's where it
was, that's that's chubby dog farm, you know, and I mean, it's
just it, it just turned into theinto just kind of, I don't want
to see a signature dish, but because I hate signature dishes,
I hate legacy dishes, but that'sI always, I will always have a

(47:49):
version of. That which you understand, you
can't. Yeah, like right now it's a dry
aged Porterhouse plated up a little differently.
It's got some some actual like fire roasted fennel next to it,
you know it, but there's always some.
Sort of iteration of it version.You can't you can't run from
signature legacy dishes. You need this.

(48:11):
There's no way around it. There's this.
Everybody has, you know, there'sa thing.
OK, since you already mentioned it, let's talk about the coach
on 555 that, you know, Prince ofPork.
Yeah, is is that's another huge deal.
And I'm the last ones look at that like that's because, you
know, COVID killed it. That was that was the end of

(48:33):
Cochon 555 and restaurant had been open six months.
Man, that's me breaking down theCochon pig.
Yeah, the. The cochon.
So that, that, that, you know, abeautiful, beautiful pork to
work with. Yeah, that, that.
That pig was a a red wattle and Mangalitsa cross by Chubby Dog
Farms. Karen and Calvin, the farmers,

(48:54):
amazing people, amazing pork, you know, and and.
People out there, speak to them.Tell them what?
Tell them what. Tell them what?
Cochon pork. Yeah.
Cochon was this like traveling? I think they did 9 different
cities throughout the US and it was 5 chefs at each stop and
each one of you gets £200 pig from a local farm and you have

(49:16):
to create. I think it was 6 different
dishes for the judges. Then you had to have at least
two to feed. It's like 6 to 800 people that
attended and you can do extra stuff if you want, you know, but
but yeah, I mean, it's just noseto tail, you know.
So we were utilizing everything I made like Katsubushi out of
the heart, you know, like salt box cured it and then dehydrated

(49:38):
it and was grading it over stufflike with a microplane and made
it made a relish out of the pig head.
We were just doing, you know, I did Hammond Percier jalapeno
corn dogs, you know that, you know, I'll never forget after I
won, you know, it's like John Tesar, who's the legendary chef
of knife. And you know, of course, you

(50:00):
know, Top Chef and Anthony Bourdain's old chef back in the
day. He's the one that I believe gave
him the name Flacco. But I just remember he texted me
and he's he's just like, congratulations, chef.
And then he goes, that corn dog.By the way, listen that the the
corn dog. Yeah, but I mean that that

(50:20):
competition was so special to mebecause, you know, I've been in
the Dallas scene. Dallas was one of the stops.
You know, there's only 45 chefs a year that get to do this in
the whole country. And it kind of seemed to me that
you got a one and done, like yougot a shot and then you didn't,
you know, very few people got a second invite.
And usually those people were tied to the facility that it's
being held at or whatever. But when I was at FT-33, which

(50:44):
is legendary restaurant in Dallas, absolutely my favorite
place I've ever worked in my life under Matt McAllister, you
know, food and wine, best news chef, dope chef.
We, we did a prep up for Kosh onthere.
And then the next year I'd movedon to Machelayo, which is chef
David Huger, who's the chef of Lucia.

(51:08):
And. He won it that year.
And so I came in after Cochon had already ended and was
helping him prep up for Grand Cochon, which is in Chicago
where it's, you know, the, the top 9 or, you know, the 9 Prince
or princesses support go to compete for, you know, the, the,
the title. And yeah, so I mean, it's just

(51:28):
Cochon was just always this justlegendary event and those who
knew about it just knew the the gravity behind it and, and the
awareness that it raised for, you know, small farms and nose
to tail cooking and 0 waste and just, you know, really doing
amazing things with beautiful animals and beautiful people.
So that was just, you know, it said I won that.

(51:51):
That was I think February of 22 or no, it was 20 February of 20
because restaurant was about 6 months old.
I already worked myself into thehospital and I just got out of a
four day kick because I put myself into atrial fibrillation.
Because, you know, I was tellingyou earlier that it took me a

(52:13):
while to realize that all these people weren't like me, you
know? So it's just, you know, but my
blood pressure was always up andI was just always like, you
know, just stressed out. Yeah.
Let's bring a little pork on topof that now.
Yeah. I got a little fennel polyps
like it's. Yeah.
But now I had to go to the hospital.
They put the patches on me. They they shock you.

(52:35):
Like I, I always tell everybody I'm like, they hit control alt
delete. Like and, you know, they hit
control, alt delete, reset my heart.
Two days later. I think we had to move like,
yeah, we were moving houses. And then like the weekend after
that was Cochon. And then the week after that was
the day that my Chopped episode aired.
So it was like a crazy. Oh, wow, You had?

(52:56):
Yeah, that's. A couple of weeks, man, like it
was just, it was wild. And I remember there's a, a
magazine interview that I did a year or two ago and, and the guy
was like the way he wrote it, itwas so like, oh, man.
It was like, like an Idiocracy narrator.
You know, it's like, you know, after this win and that win and

(53:17):
this event, you know, Chef Lancelooked to his wife Bailey and
said, babe, I think this is gonna be our year.
And it's like dot dot dot dot itwas not their year you.
Know. It's like right then COVID,
everything shuts down, it goes crazy.
And then it was like kind of like we had this rapid like 6-8

(53:39):
months of growth and then just our knees got just cut right out
from under us. It was a wild, wild time.
That's insane. What would you say for, for our
listeners out there and people watching that, you know, what
would be some tips for the novice home cook to, to cook
pork? I mean, cause pork is one of
those things. Again, we're dealing with so

(54:03):
many different parts of the pig.They all cook differently.
They all have different applications.
They all take on flavor profilesdifferently.
What What would be the one thingyou can give a tip to our
listeners about cooking pork? Start with really good pork
with, with, with pork. I mean like genetics or
everything. If you've got to buy like

(54:26):
commercial big box, you know, from a, from a store or
whatever, find something like, you know, and they don't pay me
a dime to sell it, you know, butlike like a compart, like a like
a compart Duroc, which is a heritage breed.
And you know, it's like it's raised and it's still commercial
scale, but it's like they actually put in some steps to
make it not quite so vile is thecommercial meat program in

(54:50):
America, which is grosses me out.
But but, you know, start with really good pork and look at it
and it should have that color that looks good to eat.
It should be pale. And you know, it shouldn't be
the other white meat. It should be the other red meat.
You know, it's a should have some fat into it, you know, and
then outside of that, it's just keep it really simple, man.
I mean, it's like when when I cook proteins and that's what

(55:11):
everybody always says. What do you put on this pork
chop? Salt and pepper.
That's it. I literally just put salt and
pepper on it, That's all. And then it's pan seared, you
know, and, and just keep it really simple.
Don't overcook it. Don't look at the, you know, you
know, the USDA, I think they saymedium is like 155.
You know, they say mid rare is like 128 or something.

(55:33):
I'm just like, whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa.
It's kind of like the food pyramid.
It's like, man, I feel like you guys are screwing with us again.
Absolutely. But yeah, don't overcook it.
Use really good pork, yeah. Good, good.
Great point. Great point.
All right, you and you, you spoke about your wife Bailey.
Let's First off, who is a a force on our own.

(55:54):
She's she's culinary badass, herown.
What is it like, you know, running a business, you know,
with your partner and, and having someone and you already
said that she had she, you know,dialed in the key ingredient for
that, for that pork chop. But how is that, you know,
having, you know, a bonafide teammate to do these things

(56:17):
with? You know, like I said, Bailey
Bailey's incredible. You said she's forced to be
reckoned within her own. She's one of the very few widely
recognized, you know, female pitmasters in Texas BBQ.
She helmed a couple different BBQ joints, worked on some Texas
Monthly top 50 joints. Now she just does pop ups from
time to time, you know, and that's just kind of her vibe.
She's a dog mom and does BBQ popups from from time to time, but

(56:42):
you know, working together and and this is one of those things
that it's that it's that it's like it's really tough to do,
you know, and it's something that I really wanted to do what
was to, you know, be able to work together And we did for a
long time. And then it, then it's kind of
like at some point you kind of hit that point where it goes one

(57:02):
way or the other. And, and you have to be really
honest with yourself about, well, can we work together?
You know, and, and, and in our case, it's, it's, we work
together when we're, when we're eating, when we're tasting food,
when we're talking about food, when we're cooking at home,
we're exploring flavors and we're doing things like that.
But when it comes to line, it's like, it's, it's, it's my show,
you know, like it's, and, and that's, that's a really tough

(57:25):
one to get past. You know, it's like, as much as
I wanted to, you know, it, it wound up not being a an on the
line thing, but more of a, you know, that supportive and that
constant sense of, of, of guidance and in the ear and, and
you know, she comes from the scene.
So she. Understands you're going to have

(57:45):
your you're going to find out what works for you guys like and
so there's. But she's she's incredible.
And I mean, like I said, all things are possible through
Bailey. That is, I couldn't do a damn
thing in this world if it wasn'tfor her.
And, you know, we're coming up on our 8th wedding anniversary,
which will be Halloween. There you go.
Congratulations on that. Yeah, congratulations.

(58:06):
Yeah, That's that's it's amazing.
It's and it really is, you know,First off, 2 offers bad
situation, you know, yeah, bad situation.
So you got to understand what isyour line?
The line in the sand is the the line is literally the line.
So that's that, that's it's nothing wrong with that at all.

(58:28):
When people talk about East Texas food and the food scene in
10 years from now, how do you want them to speak or remember
heritage? I think just being the first guy
to speak up for it, you know, like it's kind of having that,

(58:49):
that, that voice of, of where itcomes from and, and just being
the first guy to say, Hey, this is a real thing.
You know, it's because it is, it's a very distinct cuisine.
It's a very distinct type of food and flavors.
And, you know, it's familiar to a lot, but it's, you know, it's,
it's different and it's I think it will grow And and that's kind
of one of the things, you know, opening up in Tyler was I wanted

(59:13):
to bring something out here thatwas different.
You know, I wanted to bring something out here that was kind
of big city ish, but still like home, you know, and now that
it's grown into that, I'd like to inspire more people to come
out here, you know, and that's. Oh, I'm coming, I'm coming.
Yeah, come on, you know, but I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean
like chefs to open up, you know,like, Oh, no, no, it's.
Yeah, I'm coming. Yeah, I mean, it's it's a killer

(59:37):
city and it's like I'm the only chef driven place in town.
It's, I mean, there's, there's, there's a lot of restaurants,
you know, but most of them, you know, owner operator were KMS
and things like that. A, a handful of of, of, you
know, bona fide chefs, but as far as chef driven, where it,
you know, and these people, theylove it, you know, and, and the

(59:59):
economy here is vibrant. It's rooted in education and,
and medicine and oil and gas andlegal.
And I mean, there's a lot of money here.
There's a lot of people that know how to eat and.
And I want competition, you know, it's like I want, I want
to have a place to go eat. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah,
exactly. That too, you know, or, or just
collab and do stuff together. And I, I, I think that just, I

(01:00:24):
want them to, to, to kind of maybe Remember Me as the one
that said, Hey, it's viable hereand inspired people to come out
and, and throw their hat in the ring too.
That's this though you've you'vementored veterans, young cooks,
you know all the alike. What is the one thing that you
hope they take from your journeyand then y'all journey together?

(01:00:52):
I, I hope that they don't followmy journey.
It's been very hard. It's been very difficult.
It's been, I, I'm very open about my mistakes.
I'm very open about my shortcomings.
I'm very open about, you know, my mental health issues.
I, I chase peace a lot, you know, and that's so I, I, I

(01:01:16):
think if, if I want to push themin any sort of direction, it's
to be a positive force, You know, it's to be, to be calm,
you know, and, you know, just cook with respect and cook with
identity, you know, honor, honoryour ancestors, but honor the
rest of the ancestors that were around back then too.

(01:01:37):
You know, it's, it's being open to, I want to teach them to be
open and, and that doesn't soundright, but it's, but it's kind
of like I want them to look at, look at each other without a
sense of competition. I want them to look, you know,
the, the guys and gals in my line.
I want to, I want them to interact and grow together and,

(01:02:00):
and become like, you know. Not a sense of team, I mean.
Great, you know, yeah. A sense of team.
I, I want, I want to leave this,you know, I'm 53 years old now,
you know, it's like I was crippled when I started on this
line, you know, and it's, I'm not getting younger and it's not
hurting less when I get out of bed every morning or when I'm

(01:02:22):
done, it's Saturday night and you know, I'm not getting any
younger. I, I, I would like to, if, if I
could leave maybe 1 legacy to the culinary world when it's
time for me to leave. And it's not yet, but it's
figuring out a way to enable allof your cooks to be in business,

(01:02:44):
you know, like, cuz a lot of people don't have the
opportunity to, to hang their shingle bone.
Never have the money. I had $25,000 when I opened
culture. It was a, it was a lockout
restaurant. It was a pizza joint, a little
red sauce joint. And so it had tables, it had
chairs, it had some pots and pans.
It had a stove. It had that big stupid pizza

(01:03:04):
oven in it that I. Hated.
But I can't get it out of there.If anybody wants a pizza oven,
like for me to come get it, likebring me a few things.
You got to forklift it from the street.
That's all. You got to pull the glass out of
the wall. But you know, so I had 25,000
cash the day we opened. I had $92.00 left in the

(01:03:25):
checking account 92. You know, don't do it that way.
You know, it's like, I don't, I don't know how many people could
have, could have survived that lack of a business model.
It was just like a, you know, macaroni and your.
Journey Your journey is your journey though and and and.
And I would love to figure out away to turn that into some sort

(01:03:49):
of business model to where I could put them in in charge and
give them all ownership of the place and.
OK, so speaking on that, what iswhat is, what's next?
Is it, is it expansion? Is it is it storytelling about
the experience, or are you trulylooking to, you know, pass the

(01:04:10):
proverbial torch to to the next in line?
I've still got, I've still got afew years left in me, you know,
so it's we're we're actively working on opening another
restaurant. It's called Trisoro, which is
like this kind of a mash up playon the the French and Spanish
and Italian ways of saying treasure, kind of this Middle

(01:04:32):
Eastern Mediterranean vibe restaurant that it's going to
it's going to allow me to get that that Mediterranean fix that
I came from, you know, living inthe Middle East like I did.
It'll be, you know, that kind ofvery Middle Eastern centric with
a little dash of this little dash of that.
And you also create your own competition.
You said there's none down here I'll make.

(01:04:53):
It, you know, and, and well, andremember I, I told you about
Chef Sidney, who is my first, you know, like exec exec who
pulled me out and made me stay in this career path.
She's going to be the general manager of it and my old sous
chef who I introduced to her andthey are now married.

(01:05:16):
Maddie, he was my sous chef and he, he worked with me 3
different restaurants coming up and he's going to be the, the
CDC of it. So it's, it's kind of, we're
keeping that in the family. And that's kind of the same
deal. It's like I want to get that, I
want to get it up, I want to getit going, get it rocking and,
and, and, and pass it on like it's, you know, I'm in a

(01:05:38):
position to where I can open that place.
They may never be in that position to open that place.
So what, what greater gift couldI possibly do for the person
that not only kept me in this business, but kept me alive,
then try and get them in there and get them set up and, and,
and, and, and pass it on and give them that ownership.
I mean, it's, it's also one of those things like, man, you

(01:06:01):
better be careful what you wish for, you know, like, because
what, what is yours? It's a, it's a whole different
thing, you know, but, but I think that there's so many
people that I, I think that happens more than the industry
says it does. You know, I feel like, you know,
there's, there's quite a few restaurants that have that have
come from that and, and they're multi generational, not in a

(01:06:22):
nepotistic way, but in a professional way where, where
it's like you find those one or two or three of your employees
and, and it, it moves on to themand it continues on.
And I, I think it does happen. You know, it's just you don't
hear about it a lot. Yeah, that's very cool, Very
cool. All right, before I let you go,
we're going to play a little game.

(01:06:45):
It's the Lightning round. All right, Lightning.
OK, this one's pretty simple. I'm going to give you, you know,
ask a question or say a phrase and you just tell me the first
thing that pops into your mind. All right, no pressure.
Let's do it. All right, Biscuits or
cornbread? Cornbread.

(01:07:10):
I hate you. You said cornbread.
Everybody heard right. OK, all right.
Good. Whiskey.
Neat or on the rocks? Rocks.
Cool big rock. Large format.
Exactly. There we go.
Big rock Dream collab chef. Dead or alive God.

(01:07:30):
This one This one will weird youout.
BJ Dennis. Damn.
Yeah, one of my all time favorites.
Just I I really want to cook andjust hang out and talk with that
guy. Yeah, I would love that.
Would be amazing. That would be dope.
Yeah. Film it all.
Yeah, for real. OK, one ingredient you'll never
compromise on. God, I'm trying to think of

(01:07:59):
let's go with butter. That's a great butter.
Sucks. That's a great.
Cheap butter does suck. Yeah.
All butter is not created equal.That's that's a fact, yeah.
Spend money on your butter. People Absolutely, absolutely.
Biggest pet peeve in the kitchen.
Oh. I forgot.

(01:08:23):
That's a good one. Or or or my favorite employee,
Noah. Noah Body.
Yeah. No.
Who did this? Nobody.
No, yeah, it. Doesn't mean not me.
Shit, not me. Oh, Noah.
Yeah. Oh, Noah.
Good. Oh, Noah.
OK, smell that reminds you of home.

(01:08:46):
Tomato plants. OK, that was my great uncle was
really famous for growing his tomatoes and the okra was there,
but they didn't smell like the tomato plants did.
Like as a kid, I can remember the, the, the just that pungent
smell of tomato plants and the, and the flowers and the just,
yeah, very cool. It's just a cool smell.
Very cool. Very cool.
OK, finish this sentence. Food is.

(01:09:11):
Everything there. You go.
There you go. OK, tell everyone out there who
can hear the sound of your voiceor see your magnificent face,
where they can follow you, what you got going on, how to keep in
contact, in touch with all the things you got going.

(01:09:32):
Dad, the and and and please reach out because I run all of
our own social media and everything like that.
So with restaurant is heritage EIf you look it up on Instas and
Facebook, I think it's heritage under score E.
If you punch in chef Lance Mcquarter at chef Lance
Mcquarter, you punch in Lance Mcquarter.
You'll probably find a few pagesof me, but there's a fishing
page and a cooking page and Plaid rabbit.

(01:09:56):
You can find that one. Heritage tyler.com is the
website we're working on my personal website, which will
just Lance mcquarter.com that'llbe linked through the heritage
page. And that's going to be where I'm
going to be writing a lot more. Like I've really, I've really
felt fallen in love with writingand research.
And, you know, except that the the Seeds project is just

(01:10:16):
something that I really want to continue on and hopefully have
the chance to do some kind of Q&A, sit down dinners with some,
you know, prominent Southern African American chefs and, and,
you know, maybe we cook some food of our grandmothers and
talk about how similar they are and talk about overcoming the
divide that's been put between US and those meals all these

(01:10:39):
years. And, and so keep an eye on the,
keep an eye on the website because that's, that's what
we're working on right now is some, some, you'll be able to
read some of my stuff. And, and yeah, because it's the
writing is, it's been a really cool release.
You know, it's been a really cool way to get thoughts out of
my head that I usually have a tough time doing.

(01:10:59):
And I just want a world that everybody loves each other.
And you know, that's, that's, I guess the older you get, the
more you know. Yeah, no, I mean, you're just,
you're just continuing in a in adifferent form.
What you what you're already doing.
So, you know, food is the the ultimate unifier, you know,
along with music as well. And so documenting it, you know

(01:11:24):
the words will last longer than the plate, right?
Or or either one of. Us exactly.
It will outlive it will outlive us all.
And so that to me is, is an important facet of storytelling
and that those are those are thenew seeds.
Yeah. And and.
And I mean, that's, you know, that's that's where it starts,

(01:11:44):
that's where it ends. That's, you know, when the end
of a life cycle, little plant the seeds drop, you know, and
it's and it's a whole new batch.So just be good to each other
people and get out there and love each other.
You know, it's like everything that's that's different between
you and me is bullshit. You know what I mean?
It's just like we're, we're all human beings, you know, meat
suits, skeletons flying through space.

(01:12:06):
You know, it's, it's like, it's not that serious.
Like, like chill out, love each other, sit down, eat some food.
And like I said, in seeds, you know, if, if, if, if the healing
has it has to start somewhere. Let it be at my table, you know,
Or yours. Absolutely.
Again, thank you so much for forbeing here.
We're going to talk online. We got so much stuff to do so

(01:12:27):
much. And I'm definitely coming to see
you for sure. And let's do it.
Yeah, we'll cook. Yeah, no, no, we know.
We have to. It's a must.
It's a must. It's a must.
Again, follow my guy. Chef Lance, you need to check
out soon as he's up with his website, you'll be able to, I'm
guessing weed seeds, which is a must.

(01:12:49):
Brought me to tears also. It made me so much fill me with
so much hope and I I I generallylove this guy.
He's a good dude and check him out and thank him for being here
again. So this has been the taste music
here food podcast show. I am Ed Porter, till next time,

(01:13:14):
peace. MBC.