Trust Over Rates: Christian Greiner (DAT) on Why the Cheapest Load Can Cost You More

Freight can swing from strong to brutal in a matter of days—but the biggest risks to carriers aren’t always listed on the rate confirmation. We sit down with Christian Greiner from DAT to break down what’s really changing in trucking today: stricter enforcement of long-standing rules, a spot market slowly returning toward pre-COVID capacity, and the reality that one bad decision can quickly derail an owner-operator’s cash flow.

We get into the real-world impact of freight fraud and double brokering—how broker impersonation works, why scammers thrive on urgency, and what drivers can do to protect themselves before they ever roll. Christian shares a simple but powerful habit: trust, but verify. Using official FMCSA data to confirm who you’re working with can be the difference between getting paid and getting burned.

From there, we zoom out into safety and fairness across the industry. The lowest rate isn’t always a win—especially when it’s tied to ELD manipulation, CDL mills, or “chameleon carriers” that reset under new MC numbers while legitimate carriers carry the long-term cost.

We also talk technology and trust—from the hype around automation and the Tesla Semi to the real role of AI as a tool that supports, not replaces, operators. Christian breaks down how DAT balances speed and trust in a two-sided network, why verification matters even when it slows things down, and how tools, acquisitions like Convoy, and factoring are shaping faster booking and more reliable cash flow.

If you’re trying to stay profitable, protected, and ahead of the curve in today’s freight market, this episode is for you.

Key Takeaways 👇

✅ Freight markets are stabilizing, but pressure on carriers is still very real
 ✅ Stricter enforcement means small mistakes can have bigger consequences
 ✅ Freight fraud and double brokering are growing—urgency is how scammers win
 ✅ “Trust but verify” using FMCSA data can prevent costly non-payment
 ✅ The cheapest load isn’t always worth it—especially when tied to unsafe practices
 ✅ “Chameleon carriers” create unfair competition by resetting under new MC numbers
 ✅ AI should support operations, not replace relationships and decision-making
 ✅ Verification may slow things down, but it protects trust and long-term business
 ✅ New tools, factoring, and acquisitions are helping speed up booking and stabilize cash flow

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of The Ask
Deliver.
Glad to have you guys back withus again.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray.
And we got a returning guest, agreat guest to be back on the
show to bring value for us.
Uh, last time he talked a lotabout bringing value for
trucking companies out there,how to keep going.
And we have Christian Grinerfrom Dat back with us again.
And he's got a lot of greatinsights for us.

(00:21):
Let's welcome him back on theshow.
Christian, how you doing today?
Glad to have you back again.

SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
It's great to be back.
What was it?
I think it was last summer I wason.

SPEAKER_01 (00:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, it goes by fast.
I mean, these years a lot hashappened.

SPEAKER_00 (00:40):
A lot has happened in the industry at DET.
What about with you?
Anything changed this lastsummer?

SPEAKER_01 (00:45):
A lot of things changed.
I moved the studio to adifferent location.
And man, yeah, I'm I'm doingmore driving across state lines.
So yeah, really.
I'm happy to be working.
So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
You still get to keep it local, or are you
spending some nights away, orhow does that work?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00):
Every week we go out.
So this particular route goes toSalt Lake City, Utah.
Then it goes down to Omaha,Nebraska, and from there goes to
Houston, Texas, and then toIndiana.
There's a place called NewBaltimore.
And then we go to Chicago, thecatch facility, and then we head
back to St.

(01:21):
Paul.
So yeah, a little bit ofdriving.
Every week we do that until theybump us off.
Yeah.
The union jobs in there andlittle quirks.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33):
Yeah, yeah.
Awesome.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35):
But yeah, man, I mean, DAT, you guys are doing
great things over there.
I mean, I really appreciate youcoming back on the show.
Last time we spent a lot of timetalking about fundamentals, why
so many carriers out therestruggle early on.
And you guys also have programsset up in place where it makes
it success makes it easy forthem to be successful getting
started, and why professionalismand communication and all those

(01:56):
relationship things that go intoplay, they really matter into
chasing those rates.
I mean, that conversation wasreally about how carriers need
to operate business.
Today I wanted to build on thatbecause the carriers who who do
things the right way, theenvironment that they're they're
in is operating right now.
I mean, it's it's pretty roughout there.

(02:18):
It feels feels difficult to makeit.
We'll kind of jump right intoit.
Well, let's get started.
The big picture, the landscapehas shifted somewhat over the
years.
Since the last time we had youon, what's the most meaningful
shift you've seen in carriersoperating and thinking beyond
just rates and volume?

SPEAKER_00 (02:36):
Yeah, I mean, I've got a lot has happened in the
since last summer.
I I think the biggest thing isjust to see the seriousness in
which this administration, theFMCSA, kind of is taking some of
the rules that have been inplace for a long time, but
enforcement, especially crackingdown on kind of the CDL mills,

(02:56):
manipulable, you know, ELDs, andyou know, we have ELP mandates
and things like that.
And and so I I think, you know,when I talk to carriers, I see a
lot of hope in the industry.
You know, and also we can say ata macro level, like you know,
Ken Adamo posted this last week.
We have now seen forehaircarriers return to the pre-COVID

(03:20):
trend, right?
So for a long time, COVIDbrought in, and I'm speaking
specifically the spot markethere, right?
Which DAT is operates in.
COVID brought in just so manycarriers, the demand was so
high, then the demand left, butthe carrier stayed, right?
So now you have a mismatch therewhere supply far outseeds the
demand of freight that needs tomove.

(03:41):
And what we've seen ever sincethat time is just this long
constant exiting of the industryfrom certain carriers and people
waiting, waiting, you know, whenis it gonna get back to normal?
And it looks like we are nowback at that pre-COVID trend.
Now, I I can't say that that'salone is what's responsible for

(04:02):
this, you know, spike in ratesthat we've seen recently, and we
have since the beginning of theyear.
There's definitely going to be aweather-related, you know, part
to that.
But but I I I definitely hearsome hope coming from carriers,
and I I like hearing that.
I like hearing that a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (04:18):
That's good.
Yeah, I mean, definitely a lotthat we've been through in the
in the past years.
I mean, there's a lot of afreight disturbance with fraud,
and I mean that seems to be anuptick on that, as far as I'm
concerned.
I'm I'm kind of new to theindustry as well, so I don't
know what it's been like 30years ago, but it seems like a
lot of that stuff is reallyincreased for just people trying

(04:40):
to see what they can get awaywith.

SPEAKER_00 (04:43):
That's my impression, too.
I mean, I I like you, I haven'tbeen in in that long, maybe six
years in this industry, butdefinitely the fraud is is off
the charts, right?
From what we've seen and whatI've hear has happened in the
past.

SPEAKER_01 (04:56):
Because it could only take one instance to really
mess up your insurance.
I mean, you got the you know,the what is those things, the
bonded and insurance things thatyou gotta go through to protect
yourself.
Yeah, yeah, they don't like itwhen that stuff pops up.
I'm sure that affects the rates.

SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, and just I mean, cash flow, right?
Like I what I see, especiallyyou know, an owner operator,
right?
The margins aren't you're you'renot making tons of money with
these rates, right?
And one fraudulent load that youdon't get paid on can be enough
to put you under.
And so it's so important thatcarriers protect themselves from

(05:35):
double brokering and making surethey're working with the right
person.
Unfortunately, you hear storieslike that all day of a carrier
who thought they were workingwith a legitimate broker and it
turns out to be someoneimpersonating a broker and
they're not going to get paidfor that low load.
And that$5,000, you know, isenough to just put them out of
business.

SPEAKER_01 (05:54):
Yeah, let's slow that down for some of those that
aren't in the brokerageindustry.
I get a lot of truckers thatmaybe want to expand and maybe
retire and do the brokerage.
They talk about it.
Maybe that's something they cando afterwards, their main thing,
make their their second gig,their the main gig.
Yeah.
But it's risky.

(06:15):
What's what's that like?
I mean, the trust factor, how doyou guys help them be
successful?
Well, simple thing like doublebrokerage.
How does that what does thatlook like?
Or how does that even getstarted?
Can you give an eye opener onthat?

SPEAKER_00 (06:30):
Yeah, I mean, I so so I'm the GM in the carrier
business here at DAT.
And so I I primarily work withcarriers.
And what I see the most commonis that someone will impersonate
a broker, right?
And they will reach out to thatcarrier, they'll send an email
and they'll say, Hey, you know,I got this load.

(06:51):
And the carrier, you know, itcould be a broker that they've
worked with in the past and thatthey had a great experience
with, and they're like, sure,you know, I'll take it.
And what they don't notice isthat the email address is just
slightly off, right?
There's there's something justI've even seen where instead of
an I with a dot, it's an I withan italism.
I think it's like a Cyrillicword, right?

(07:12):
And and it just it's just everso slightly off.
And they don't know that theyare not working with that
broker, and they are unknowinglyparticipating in double
brokering, right?
And and so then they go, theydeliver the load, and they don't
get paid.
They don't get paid.
And and so I think it's reallyimportant, you know, there's a

(07:32):
few things carriers can do toprotect themselves.
One is just look out for thoselittle things, right?
If you've been in communicationwith a broker before and they're
reaching out and and somethinglooks off about the email,
double check that.
But two, this happens all thetime, even with like, you know,
scammers that call your phone,right?
Someone says, Oh yeah, I'm fromyour bank.

(07:54):
There's a problem in youraccount, you need a transfer
over, you know, thousands ofdollars.
What's the first thing you do?
Right.
Well, they tell you you shouldhang up and call your bank,
right?
And say, Hey, was the I've I didthat a few weeks ago.
And things like, no, I didn'tcall you, right?
And so that that's the numberone thing that I think carry
should do, right?
If if you're getting it, look upthe broker in the FMCSA, call

(08:19):
that number.
Don't just take it that theperson that called you is the
broker that you've worked within the past.
And so that I mean, that's justa very simple thing, but it
would does protect carriers fromunknowingly participating in
that sort of fraud and make surethey get paid.

SPEAKER_01 (08:34):
Wow.
I keep hearing about the trustand survival part of the
industry.
Some something I keep hearing ascarriers is that they keep
feeling forced into decisionsthat they don't like.
Are carriers being pushed toaccept levels of risk today that
they may never would havetolerated in a healthier market?
What would you say on that one?

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
I'd say there's no doubt about that.
There are some great parts aboutcapitalism, right?
Brokers are looking for thelowest rate, right?
They want to move that freight.
I think that what happens thoughis that when rules aren't
enforced, the carrier that'sable to offer the lowest rate

(09:42):
isn't always abiding by the samerules as everyone else.
And that's what I think peoplehave an issue with, right?
If you want to gain operationalefficiency in your business by
getting better at route planningor having better maintenance,
you know, on your trucks and andfinding better ways, cheaper
ways to run your business,that's great, right?

(10:04):
That that's capitalism at itsfinest.
If you're going to offer a lowerrate because you're manipulating
the driver's ELD or you'resending drivers through a CDL
mill, that's where people havean issue, right?
And and it's and at that point,it's not even a political issue,
right?
Uh it's it's a safety issue,right?
I I have to use the same roadsas everyone else.

(10:27):
For my family, I want to besafe.
And so that's where I see, youknow, uh carriers have the
biggest issue with, right?
Because it's not a level playingfield.
And so yeah, I think that whatyou have seen in this market is
every carrier has gotten smarterand more efficient at running

(10:48):
their business, but some havetaken that way too far and
started putting safety of othersat risk, and that's what I think
a lot of us have a big issuewith.

SPEAKER_01 (10:57):
Yeah, safety on the road is huge.
I mean, we hear about theseaccidents.
I think just last week there's afatality involving a truck
driver.
I mean, that's yeah.
I mean, I'm I'm in the trucksleeping.
Yeah, my co-driver's driving.
I mean, he's a good guy, and Itrust him.
Big shout out to Jeff Brewer,man.
A lot of a lot of trust goesinto the co driver and while

(11:21):
you're sleeping on that rig, butyet there's things that are out
of your control.
I mean, there's a lot of factorson the road, and the more unsafe
they make the road, you know,it's a lot of innocent people
out there.

SPEAKER_00 (11:32):
Yeah.
Here's a here.
I got a crazy story for you.
Okay.
So last week I was in Illinois,I was talking to an Illinois
state trooper.
I said, What's your crazieststory?
He said, Oh man, you neverbelieve this.
He said, I pulled over a driveron a Thursday in Springfield,
Illinois.
Driver couldn't speak English.
So I checked the background.

(11:53):
They had entered the countrythat Tuesday in Washington
State, which meant that withinthree days they had obtained a
CDL and made it halfway acrossthe country from Tuesday to
Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 (12:10):
Go get that money, huh?

SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
Is that nuts?
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (12:15):
Wow.
I yeah, I've I've heard I hadnever been through the process,
I don't know what it's like, youknow.
And I I got nothing to say aboutimmigration because I have no
clue being born in America.

SPEAKER_00 (12:29):
I mean, that's gotta be rough, but at the same time,
the desperation of individualsthat the world is being under to
come to another country and justjump in a rig and hope that you
make it is it's uh that's yeah,and I think you know it is
important to separate thepolitical from the safety

(12:51):
conversation, right?
Because there's there's apolitical side to this, and and
I'm not, you know, the bestqualified person to get into
that.
I can say from a safetyperspective, I would much rather
drive in a truck of someone thatyou know is non-domiciled but
drove a truck for 10 years inEurope and went through the
proper, you know, CDL school, alegitimate CDL school and and

(13:14):
did training with their company,even if they have a
non-domiciled, you know, CDL,right?
Versus even someone that wasborn here and went through a CDL
mill and was driving two dayslater with no training, right?
So like I I get there's apolitical issue, and I'm not
gonna touch that.
Man, I got nothing.
But the safety issue is the onethat that I I take issue with,

(13:36):
right?
Because again, like I said, youknow, you and I share the same
roads, like it's it's it's allof us, it affects all of us.

SPEAKER_01 (13:43):
It does, and you think about the the company that
is taking that risk as well.
I mean, I'm thinking about abroker just getting their little
double double booked and doublebrokered.
I mean, it's the the riskinvolved with getting an
accident like that of fatalitiesis can be catastrophic to your
business, I would think.

SPEAKER_00 (14:03):
Yeah, yeah.
You know, it's well that bringsup another conversation, right?
This this idea, because lasttime I was here, we talked about
branding and building up yourbusiness and gaining that trust.
And and I really respectcarriers that do that.
Like I love that, right?
Because and I and I kind of Icall them like brand for life

(14:24):
carriers, right?
Because they they have somethingthey want to protect, right?
So they're gonna make sure thatthey're doing the safety
inspections, that they'rekeeping their trucks safe, that
they put the drivers throughsome vetting.
Uh, you know, what you see onthe other side though is that
some carriers that uh havemultiple, you know, MCs are
willing to jump to one to theother.

(14:44):
The moment there's a safetyissue.
And Sean Duffy recently called,you know, chameleon carriers,
right?
And I think that that's that'sthat's the biggest difference,
right?
Because uh, you know, you thinkabout something like McDonald's,
right?
McDonald's in the US, we havehealth inspectors, right, that

(15:04):
come and make sure that thatthere's a certain standard being
met.
But even if they operate in acountry where there's no health
inspectors, they still havetheir brand that they're trying
to protect.
And so they make sure thatthings are to a certain level,
right?
If you don't have regulation,but you also don't care about

(15:25):
your brand and you're ready toburn it and start a new one the
moment your brand gets burned,that opens up a whole another
can of worms, right?
And that that gets to be a scaryplace.
And so I I I I really, you know,I respect the the emphasis on
regulation.
And and I really, you know, Ifeel for the carriers that have
tried to be these, you know,brand for life carriers.

(15:47):
And I think that in the longrun, that's going to work,
right?
In the long run, carriers willbe rewarded for doing things the
right way.
You know, the freight market,their cycles, it comes and goes,
but the ones that'll be here forthe long haul are the ones that
invest in their brand, invest intheir reputation, and really
just try to set themselves apartfrom others.

SPEAKER_01 (16:09):
Yeah, I can only imagine thinking of those
backrooms conversations whereit's like, how do we make ends
meet?
Well, we got this coming fromthis side, and we're we're
trying to we're taking hits overhere with maintenance, we're
trying to get parts in fromanother country.
I mean, we're we're trying tokeep it all together so you can
make a living as an owner, andyou're like, Well, I guess we're

(16:31):
going down anyway.
You know, I mean, I wonder whatwhen it hits to that point where
they just, like you said, we cancome back with a different name,
and then you start makingdifferent choices.
You know, like me, I was sellinga house and making a move.
And as soon as you make thatdecision to sell your home, they
don't want you doing a wholebunch of work on the house, they

(16:52):
want you to contract it outbecause your mindset's different
versus knowing that you livethere.
Let's say you want to change theelectrical, you know, you just
say, Well, I'm leaving anyway.
You know, you start to, I mean,that's what the inspector, the
home inspectors, contractors foruh for the jobs when they pull
permits and things like that.
They they take those things intoconsideration.

(17:12):
So I can see how that could geta little leniency when a company
is having some trouble makingtheir numbers work and making
ends meet to get in thatdesperate situation.
And I think everybody's beenthere morally for whatever
reason.
Like I said, we just have tokeep that integrity and keep
thinking positive.
That's a lot of reason why wehave this show when I got you
on.
You can talk about the rewardsof that and the success that

(17:35):
many people are having byholding on to being trustworthy,
keeping those rates where theythey should be and treating
people the way they should betreated.
It goes a long way.
I think that's what a lot ofpeople are looking for these
days.

SPEAKER_00 (17:47):
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
I'm curious, like in yourexperience, you know, I know
you've been too long, but like,have you seen just the rules of
the road change over time?
Have you seen it degrading?
Like, what have you seen outthere?

SPEAKER_01 (18:00):
Yeah, while you're out there driving, people take
more risk.
I mean, I'm always seeing we'reable to look down from our
window, and you can see rightinto the car, people got the
phone right in their hand.
And this is people just uhthey're trying to make ends
meet.
I get it.
They're trying to get from A toB just on a passenger car level,
but also professionally.

(18:20):
I mean, we see I see a lot oftruck drivers with their feet in
on the dash.

SPEAKER_00 (18:24):
Oh man.

SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yeah, it's like is it really that hot in there?
You know, or I'm not sure what'sgoing on, but and then the
videos you see, it pretty muchsays it all.
I don't know.
A lot of the short videos outthere is real popular for people
to post stuff.
I mean, it's just it's it's likethe wild wild west.
You know, as far as companies, Iwork for a large company and

(18:48):
they try to create that marginfor themselves so that they can
make a profit for theirshareholders.
A lot of big companies that haveto answer to a board, they act
differently.
They're not gonna be reallyconcerned about a lot of the
small things.
Interesting.
Um, yeah, the big picture isreally what they they're going
for, and you never know whythey're doing what they're doing

(19:11):
because it could be anacquisition thing so that they
could set themselves up for thenext play, whether they could be
purchased or bought, merged.
We don't know.
That's a lot of things that goon in those boardrooms.
It's like in those small mom andpop, when they're together,
they're trying to make thosenumbers work.
Same thing the board members aredoing when they get together,

(19:32):
they're trying to make thosenumbers work.
Yeah, and a lot of companies aretrying to invest locally, but
they're also, you know, insteadof you know, we're we're seeing
robots out there, we're seeingautomation, we're seeing
spending a lot of money on onconstruction projects to make
their margins better by usingmore of the technology that's

(19:54):
available nowadays.
And we're seeing that factorslowly work in on the human
factor where people say, Who'sgonna do all the work?
Well, you're seeing it, it'sbeing delivered today.
The groundwork is being done sothat eventually they can make
those moves financially so thatthey can say, Well, we gotta we
got that automated.
We don't we don't need to hire.

SPEAKER_00 (20:16):
Yeah, I mean it's happened all throughout history,
it's not gonna stop now, right?
Yeah, yeah.
That's a story of our ourexistence and and how our
economy is always operated,right?
Looking for those efficiencies,lowering costs.

SPEAKER_01 (20:30):
Yeah, it's they're desperate too.
You know, yeah, they'redesperate for change, you know,
being desperate pushes a personto go beyond their it stretches
their their mind as to what theyare willing to accept.
And you can see that firsthand,the risk people are taking just
switching from the third lane onthe freeway to getting off, and
the ex has got to get aroundthat truck.

(20:51):
Oh man, would you would you dothat if you were weren't in a
hurry if you got up a littleearlier?

SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, things are, youknow, we're definitely in you
know, kind of another industrialrevolution, right?
And there's gonna be a lot ofdisruption.
It may happen slower than somepeople are forecasting, right?
I uh let's see.
Well, so last week I got to seeI was at the Midwest truck and
trailer show in Peoria,Illinois.

(21:19):
Oh yeah, that's a good one.
Kind of mini mats.
I like the local ones.
They had a Tesla, they had thenew Tesla semi-truck there.
They did.
And uh, and I don't think it'sgonna take it over anytime soon.
But what is your pig?

SPEAKER_01 (21:33):
What do you think of it?

SPEAKER_00 (21:34):
It was really cool, you know.
I so I I like Tesla, right?
I like I like I have an electriccar, I like it.
Well, one of our cars iselectric.
I don't think we could haveboth, yeah, just the one for
going around town.
And and I was like, Oh, I wonderwhat the inside looks like,
right?
So I jumped in the inside of theTesla Summit.
It looks exactly like a Tesla,and there's no buttons, there's
just a monitor.

(21:54):
It's it's ridiculous.
I'm like, we've come so far fromuh from what it used to be,
right?
Like I I was I was talking tosomeone it it was not long ago,
right?
Where you had to you know learnto drive the automatic and there
was no GPS, right?
And I think those two thingsalone getting automatic trucks

(22:16):
and GPS have just I meantransformational in trucking,
and and some people say for theworst.
Worse, some would say for thebetter, but they've definitely
been transformational.
And you know, it's gonna happenagain.
It's gonna, you know, it's justgonna continue down that down
that path.

SPEAKER_01 (22:33):
Was there a button in there for the trailer brake
and the tractor break?

SPEAKER_00 (22:39):
I did not even see it.
It looked just I don't know ifthis was a prototype or not, but
it looked just like a Tesla.
Like there were hardly anybuttons.
I don't know what they I thinkeverything was like done from
they had two monitors versusone, right?
So it was kind of interestingbecause uh the driver's seat,
there's only one seat, and thedriver's seat was centered in

(23:20):
the cab, it was in the directcenter.
So the steering wheel was in thevery center, and then you had
two monitors to the right andthe left.
And I was like, that that'sthat's nuts, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yeah, I mean, you think about fraud right now on
the hands-on level.
You imagine fraud on the digitallevel, it doesn't.
I don't know what what are wesetting ourselves up for?

SPEAKER_00 (23:45):
I that's that's a thought right there, yeah.
Yeah, you know, that's that'swhy that's one thing.
Like when we talk about likeautonomous trucks and stuff like
that, people are really worried,right?
And I'm like, I yeah, but likeyou still want a person there in

(24:07):
the gap, even if it's drivingitself for safety purposes, like
yeah, you seem like you stillwant something because then
someone just take your trailer,right?
Or or and who's doing theinspections and the safety
inspections.
So I think you know,innovation's coming, it'll it'll
take a while, but but in theshort term, I'm I wouldn't be
too worried.

SPEAKER_01 (24:27):
Yeah, I say convince me, you know, show me more,
educate us, don't just sneak itin, help us accept it.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, I think uh people willbe more apt to understand why
why are we pushing for thisversus we're just gonna we're
gonna push these through.
I don't know when that worked,how's that?
I mean, especially today.

(24:47):
I mean, people are very uh ableto make their own decisions
based off of videos and drawtheir own conclusions without
knowing all the facts why thathappened or why people program
it to do that.
So make help people accept it ifit's that important.
Convince me that it's safer, notjust saying it.
Yeah, saying it's one thing.

(25:08):
I think a lot of people,especially in the truck
industry, we're used to gettinglied to.
I'm sorry.
You know, I mean people make upsomething we're just talking
about fraud, you know, when youshow up and say, I think people
are showing up at the docks andsaying, Hey, you got anything
for me?
And they just throw something onthe truck.

(25:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Please verify, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (25:31):
You know, but it what you're talking about, it
points to a bigger issue, right?
Like, because everyone wants toautomate the job of a truck
driver, but it's so much morethan driving a truck.
Like what you just the exampleyou just gave, like you can't, I
you know, and it I think thatit's interesting because
obviously there's a lot of techcompanies, and DAT is one of
them, right?
We want to push the boundariesand make things more efficient

(25:54):
through technology.
I still think though, that likethe role of AI, there's there's
so much potential for it tobenefit drivers.
And but I think that like toomany companies uh market it as
like a replacement, right?

(26:15):
Like let this AI take over thisaspect of the job for you.
And I think drivers areskeptical of that, right?
They still want control.
And I think that's the future,like that's where I see
technology heading and wherewhere you you utilize AI as a
tool to make parts of your dayor parts of your job faster, but

(26:37):
you're still skeptical to let ittake over everything.
And I think we're a long wayfrom it letting it take over
everything, like dispatching,right?
Like an AI dispatcher, that'sthat's gonna be that's hard.
That's really hard.
There's so much that goes intothat.
I think that you know, someone'sI forgot who was giving example,

(26:59):
but it was a technologist, andand someone was complaining to
them, like, well, when am Igonna have a robot that does all
my chores for me?
And he was like, What do youmean?
You already have that.
Like you have a dishwasher thatwashes your dishes, you have a
laundry machine that, you know,does your laundry, you have a
vacuum cleaner that can vacuumthe floor for you, right?

(27:20):
But are you looking for one likehumanoid robot to do all that?
Like we already have robots inour lives that make them so
simpler.
And that's the model I thinkmost drivers are most
comfortable with, right?
We want AI to help us withtasks, but we're not ready to
let it completely take over ourlives because there's a lack of
trust there right now.
And I don't know if that lack oftrust is ever going away.

SPEAKER_01 (27:43):
And you see it.
You know, when you're out on theroad and you pass by and you
see, you know, putting sheetsover someone's body, you see the
the carnage, you see itfirsthand, the responsibility
when you're pulled over into aninspection and you're held
responsible for your load.
I mean, you can feel it.
Um the responsibility.
You're not behind a computer,you're right there with it.

(28:06):
When when the officer asks you,why is this like this?
And you have to answer for it,and but it's your company that
doesn't want to do that or this,and now you're you've been
compromised and you see it, yougotta you got a reckoning moment
right there.
You gotta look at what's goingon and say, Hey, man, yeah, that
wasn't right.
That's not safe.
Yeah, that's a great point.
I'm very observant.
I was I was always veryobservant as a kid.

(28:28):
So you watch things just likethat GPS you brought up.
It took me.
I got off on the exit, didn'tneed to get off on it, but the
GPS wasn't up to date that theroad would continue.
It was so it rerouted me to thetown.
So the next week I go throughthat area and I'm behind another
truck.
He goes off on the exit.

(28:50):
Yeah, so you know, so you seeother people going through it,
you know, the GPS is nice, butyou gotta you're like, why are
you arguing with the GPS?
Because you know inside there'sa better way, and that's the
struggle I think we live with iswe're gonna be arguing with the
computer and technology, tryingto figure out is is it right, is

(29:11):
it up to date, you know, and iswho's gonna suffer the
consequences of it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 (29:15):
100%.

SPEAKER_01 (29:16):
Yeah, it's a small thing.
We're not willing to let go.
It's you know, I don't know.
They said that the thing can bea babysitter, some of those
robots.
I don't know about that.
You know, would you trust yourkids with it?
You know, so I think it's a lotof selling factors into it and a
lot of elements to help pushrevenue.

(29:38):
So they want people to invest init.
So you're gonna sell it likeit's gonna make your life
easier, you know.
That's the oh for sure.

SPEAKER_00 (29:45):
For sure.
Yeah, yeah.
There's a lot of man.
If you want some investmentmoney, just say you're coming
out with something AI, right?
Come pouring in.

SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
It's hot and sexy.
Yeah, let's do it.
Wow.
But yeah, then the consequencesare you know, we're gonna we're
gonna feel it, we're gonna seeit.
So hopefully they're thinkingabout those things and they're
and they're holding on to thosevalues, and the regulators are
looking at it, and it's it'sbeing questioned behind the
scenes that we don't know about,and they're actually taking it

(30:15):
very serious.
So we we really appreciate it ifthey're doing that.
So, but yeah, we always gonna beskeptical as a human factor,
right?
We're gonna it's so fun to be askeptic nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 (30:25):
I mean truck drivers more so than others than the
general population.

SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
We got so much time on our hands, you know.
When you're out there driving,looking out the window.
I mean, you got a lot of time.
I listen to a lot of podcasts,and I get to educate myself on a
lot of things just by out thereaudible, audible in my ear.
Yeah, you know, you got so thenyou visualize it in your mind as
to what they're saying.
So it helps with that puttingthose pieces together, just like

(30:51):
old radio days.
You know, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
So well, I and you know that that one of the best
attributes you can have is alittle skepticism, right?
I mean, going back to that fraudconversation we were just
having, it's it's funny to mebecause when a scammer calls
you, I mean, these are knowntactics, right?
When a scammer calls you,they're often trying to create a

(31:15):
sense of, and I'm not talkingabout trucking here, I'm just
talking about like anyone,right?
Scammer calls you, they'retrying to create a sense of
fear, a sense of urgency, asense of like, hey, this needs
to happen right now.
Your bank account has beenhacked, right?
They're trying to put you in astate of stress and needing to
act urgently with quickly andnot think about what you're

(31:38):
doing.
And what's funny is like likethat stress and that urgency,
scammers don't need to createthat in trucking because it
already exists.
Like a lot of truck drivers,there's always a sense of
urgency and a sense of you know,fear.
And in and so it's the you know,one of the earlier questions you
asked, like, why this industry,right?

(31:59):
Why are is it so susceptible toscammers and fraud?
And I think a lot of it isbecause it's already has all the
elements that allows fraud tothrive, which is you know, the
the lack of trust, the sense ofurgency, the things need to
happen quick, the fear, thingslike that.

(32:20):
There are already elements thatexist in the life of a truck
driver daily.
And so they're very susceptibleto that.
And and I think that's that'sone of the reasons why it's been
so hard for this industry.

SPEAKER_01 (32:30):
Man, that's a good point.
Really good eye opener to like Isaid, that feeling you get
inside.
I have to tell myself to slowdown quite a bit.
Yeah, you want to go go go.
But what that saying my dad usedto tell me, haste makes waste,
and I go, Wow, there it is.
If I just took five moreminutes, you know, you could see

(32:54):
a lot of time, and you know,he's got a lot of one-liners
like that.
So my dad.
So yeah, I mean, what are someof the misconceptions out there?
I mean, what do you think uhcares think is protecting them,
but actually isn't?
Are there any tools or habits,assumptions that give false
sense of security, like yousaid, that feeling?

(33:15):
What would you say on that formisconceptions?

SPEAKER_00 (33:19):
That's a great question.
I mean, I think that you knowthat there's an old saying, you
know, trust but verify, right?
This industry doesn't workwithout some element of trust.
And and again, I'm speakingspecifically of the stock or the
spot market here, right?
Where DAT operates.
But but there is an elementwhere look, you're gonna have to

(33:42):
work with a broker you don'tknow.
And a broker's gonna have towork with a carrier that they
don't know.
And so there's always gonna haveto be some element of trust.
And really the whole industryonly works when there's some
baseline trust.
The the question for me hasalways been like, how do you how
do you establish that trustquickly?
Right.
And how do you what kind oftools do you use?

(34:03):
I I think I think there's a lotyou can do, like I said, right?
Verifying information, makingsure that information's
accurate.
It's hard though.
It's hard though, because I alsothink that there's not a great
like review system in trucking,right?
There's not I can go to arestaurant I've never been to

(34:25):
before because I can say, ohwow, look, they have like 300,
you know, reviews and 4.7 rightaverage star rating.
Like that's awesome, right?
I I know that helps that meimmediately establish trust with
that restaurant.
So much so that if I have a badexperience at that restaurant,

(34:47):
I'm actually likely to be like,you know, I think this was a
one-off.
I'm willing to try it again,even what I see is that doesn't
exist a lot in trucking, right?
There are a lot of carriers whowho, you know, are very hesitant
to work with brokers that theydon't know because things go
wrong in trucking, right?
Trucks break down.
And if you're working with abroker that you've ran, you

(35:08):
know, dozens or hundreds ofloads with when your truck
breaks down, it's like, oh man,no problem.
Sorry to hear that, right?
Like, but if you're working witha broker who it's the first load
you've ever hauled for them, youknow, all of a sudden they think
you're a fraud, you know,fraudulent carrier and you're
scamming them.
And and so it I I I would loveto see more trust in the

(35:30):
industry, but it it just needsto, it needs to to have like we
need better like reviews,better, quicker ways to
establish trust.
That's why I think I I I'vetalked so much in the past about
like your your brand as a as atruck driver and what you stand
for in your reputation.
Because I think that that's theantithesis to to lack of trust

(35:51):
is knowing you know what youstand for when they see the logo
on the side of your truck, theyknow, oh, that that brand stands
for that.
And I think some are doing thisreally well, and I think some
aren't.
So it's it's one of those, it'sit's a hard thing in the
industry.

SPEAKER_01 (36:06):
Yeah.
I mean, you think about the onethat is upholding it, trying to
do their best, and then and theysee the competitor out there
outrunning them.
So they're like, why do we needto push so hard?

SPEAKER_00 (36:17):
You know, yeah, yeah.
No, that's a great point.
And that's where I I think thatdrivers lose faith in the system
when they see that all thatthey've invested in into their
brand and their reputation isnot being considered when it
comes time for something likerate negotiation, right?

(36:40):
Like, and and and some brokersare great at that.
Like they're they're gonna belike, hey, look, I want to make
sure that this load gets theresafely on time.
I'm willing to pay a little morefor someone I've worked with in
the past, but some brokersdon't, right?
And and so I think that thatthat's been one of the the
problems.
And I I don't know has an easysolution, but but I love I love

(37:05):
it when companies, you know, areone brand for life and they
invest in that their ownreputation, even owner
operators, right?
Owner operators, that's notexcluded, you know, you invest
in your reputation, you show up.
And uh, and I think in the longrun, that is the game to play,
right?
That that that's still gonna bethe winning strategy because
cycles in the market come andgo, but your reputation is what

(37:28):
and it's just a morally goodthing to do too, right?
Like it's just it's good to runsafe, be on time, you know, try
to do your best, right?
And and and be honest withpeople.

SPEAKER_01 (37:39):
Be honest.
I mean, it doesn't seem thatway, but it's it's the one thing
we learned when we were reallyyoung, and it still resonates
today, you know.
If that even though it sucks,tell the truth.
Yeah, it's much easier to do itthat way and establish the
honesty and it and and thattrust versus breaking it all
down and not knowing where tostart.

(38:01):
You gotta start all over, buildthat trust back up.
It's frustrating.
I think it's easy up front, butit's actually the hard way.
Totally.
I mean, like these people outthere getting in accidents and
stuff.
That's that's that's not thelife you want to live.
Yeah, it's much easier and muchbetter to live with yourself
when you you got that greatdriving record.
I mean, it's it's a goodfeeling.

(38:21):
It helps you out a lot.

SPEAKER_00 (38:23):
And I hope, and I I also hope the government comes
up with better ways to becauseyou know, if if you have a
trucking business, you know, youhave a hundred trucks,
statistically, at some point oneof them's gonna get an accident,
right?
And if that if that punishes youtoo much, right, and and then
you have another fleet with ahundred trucks that gets in an

(38:44):
accident, so then just changethe name of the fleet, right?
So theirs, you know, they couldhave tons of accidents on their
record, and yet it looksperfectly clean because they
keep reinventing themselves.
Whereas that company that'strying to do the right thing, it
can look like they have you knowmore accidents, right?
Or more more, you know, issues,and and it's just not true.

SPEAKER_01 (39:07):
So you're saying too much regulation could be bad.
No, I regulations, theregulations.

SPEAKER_00 (39:15):
I think it needs to be smart regulation, if that
makes sense.
Like, like it just it just thecurrent system has a lot of
flaws that I hope that peoplethat know about the industry and
are informed about the industrywill start to start to address.

SPEAKER_01 (39:28):
Yeah, you're right.
I mean, I mean that's thatthat'll be that'll get us to
another level.
I really feel that that's a goodgood thing to improve on, put
the money in being smarter.
Um because a lot of times repthe government has a reputation
of getting in there and not suchgreat things happen.
I mean, they're there, but yeah,you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
100%, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 (39:51):
I know I know a lot of the uh sensors on our truck.
There's nobody that goes aroundand maintains that.
I think the shop says, Oh,that's uh that's that company.
You know, put one name out therelike Spinox.
Uh then there's the camera orthe radar camera on the truck.

SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:09):
Yeah, you gotta get that adjusted.
You gotta go through yoursettings on your truck to make
sure that that's right becauseit could be looking a little too
far to the left based off ofwind or something that could
have messed that camera up.

SPEAKER_00 (40:22):
So many electronics, so many electronics in trucks
now, it's ridiculous.
Like it's I I mean, I guess it'sit's there for safety, but man,
like it just gets so expensive.

SPEAKER_01 (40:33):
Yeah, it's the same thing for me.
I got all these electronics, butthen I got all these batteries.
I gotta make this on charge, Igot that on charge.
You know, it's like wow, hey,yeah, is it really making me
better?
I don't know, it's debatable.
We'll see one day.
Maybe there'll be a saturationlevel.
Um, DAT is doing such a greatjob, you're a great guy working

(40:56):
there, they're hiring goodpeople.
When you go through theonboarding process, you guys
reach out when that that FMCSAnumber gets approved.
The process is really nice.
You guys looking out for peoplemaking sure that they get the
right load boards that work withDAT.
I mean, you guys got a lot oftools and data to help people be

(41:17):
successful, even though there'sstill a lot of troubles in the
industry.
Really proud of what you guysare doing over there.

SPEAKER_00 (41:22):
Yeah, well, I appreciate it.
Yeah, I mean, we it's you know,DAT has been around for I think
what 48 years now.
And so sometimes that can be atrap for companies, right?
You get a little too complacent.
But I I really love ourleadership team.
Um, I think they do a great jobof just pushing change within
the organization and and leadingwith innovation.

(41:45):
Since the last time we spoke,right?
I think actually think theconvoy acquisition happened
after that, which is anotherpiece of great technology that's
coming into our portfolio thatwe'll be able to leverage to
make life easier.
Uh you know, I should sayeverything I've I've kind of
spoken to up to this point hasbeen like Christian Greiner's
opinion of things, notnecessarily DAT.
But but when we talk about DAT,there's there's just so much

(42:08):
great things going on.
And I think that ultimately forus, you know, what we see is
that everything comes down tospeed and trust.
We we want to help drivers, youknow, we want to improve that
trust.
And we want to be alloweddrivers to execute quickly and

(42:31):
brokers for that matter, right?
We are a two-sided network.
I think mostly about carriersbecause I'm on the carrier side,
but but it's all about speed andtrust.
And so all of our investmentinto technology goes into goes
into that.
How do we make things quicker?
And how do we make them, youknow, provide you the
information to make the datamore accurate, more trustworthy?

SPEAKER_01 (42:51):
That's awesome.
I mean, you talk about brand.
So DAT, your booths at theshows.
I mean, you guys do a great job.
You're out there, it's not justone person there to help and
answer questions.
Keep up that great work, man.
We need more of that in theindustry.
I know there's a lot ofdecisions that aren't popular.
Every platform makes decisionsand it can be frustrating.

(43:13):
Part of the market, what's adecision that DAT has made
around trust, verification, andaccess that you knew wouldn't be
popular, but but felt it wasstill the right move.

SPEAKER_00 (43:26):
Yeah, put me on the spot here.
Let's see.
So, you know, so we we do verifyeveryone that comes onto the
load board.
Uh, again, because of that thattrust aspect, we want to make
sure that you know people areoperating, that they're
trustworthy.
Right now it's a very manualprocess, and so sometimes that
takes longer than we would like.

(43:47):
And so, you know, you're like,hey, I want to get on, you know,
DAT's load board, and sometimesthat doesn't always happen as
quickly.
We'd I would love it if we couldget faster at that, and and
within you know, 30 minutes wecould grant access, but that's
not always the case.
Sometimes it is so that you knowthat's one that I I hear
feedback, you know, why can't itbe quicker, easier to sign up
for DAT?

(44:08):
There's other features thatagain, you know, we're a
two-sided network, right?
So we have we have brokercustomers, we have carrier
customers, and we're trying toserve both.
You know, one feature that I amreally excited about that we
actually launched, I think lastquarter was carrier management
suite.
And so brokers have the abilityto uh uh specify uh some filters

(44:34):
uh in choosing which carrierssee their loads on the load
board.
Now you can take that one or twoways, right?
I heard mixed feedback.
Some carriers were very upsetsaying, like, no, like if I'm
paying for DAT, I want to see.
See every single load.
And the brothers are saying,well, no, like if I if I want to
say, hey, I require everyonethat has a load for me to have

(44:56):
six have their authority for sixmonths, I I don't necessarily
need carriers that don't havethat authority to be able to see
the load in in DAT.
And so that was a problem wework through a lot.
And I think we have a greatcompromise where right now
carriers can see the loads, butthey can also see that it's
flagged that, hey, they don'tmeet the requirements.

(45:17):
And I think some, you know, I'veI've carriers have a wide range
of opinions, and I've heard somethat, you know, don't like that.
But I've also heard from a lotof carriers that actually really
appreciate that, right?
Because nothing's worse thanbeing a new carrier and seeing,
you know, a bunch of loads thatlook great and calling and
calling and being told time andtime again, nope, sorry, we

(45:38):
won't work with you.
Nope, sorry, we won't work withyou.
Nope, sorry.
And you don't know why.
And that's demoralizing, right?
And and again, everything'sabout speed and trust.
And that's not fast, right?
Calling 20 lows that you don'tqualify for is not fast.
And so now within DET, beingable to quickly see, okay, here
are the loads that I can I havea shot at.

(45:59):
Like, I I that actually goes toincreasing speed.
And so overall, I think it'sbeen a great change, and and
it's been met with a lot ofpieces of positive feedback.
But you can imagine some people,you know, don't necessarily like
that.

SPEAKER_01 (46:13):
Not too popular.
Yeah, I mean, that's huge, greatvalue to add, you know.
Like I said, you spend all thattime trying to trying to get it
right, and you're losing moneyat the same time.

SPEAKER_00 (46:24):
So yeah, yeah, and loads, loads are going so fast,
like they're going so fast, andyou like you you have to know
which one you got a shot at.
Like, and some carriers willsay, Hey, look, I know if I can
just get the broker on thephone, I can negotiate with
them, maybe explain mysituation.
But at the end of the day, likeit's it's all about speed, and
and the carriers are thefastest, are the ones you know,

(46:47):
winning those loads.

SPEAKER_01 (46:48):
Nice, nice.
So, man, that's uh helps a lotof people survive out there.
I mean, when you're looking atthese carriers who are
navigating the market well,certain behaviors stand out.
What are they doing differentlywhen it comes to trust and risk
that you may want to speak on?
What are they willing to walkaway from that that maybe the
carriers are struggling with?

SPEAKER_00 (47:11):
The best carriers are just they're they're smart
business people.
They are and and and they canspot it.
I mean, they can spot it, right?
Like I get I get messages allthe time because I I listen to,
I'll say this, I miss I listento every piece of customer
feedback we get.
And a lot of carriers, you know,have my phone number and they'll
text me things on the loadboard, they'll be like, Look at

(47:32):
this fraudulent load, right?
I'm like, well, how do you knowthat's fraudulent?
And they're like, look at this.
And I'll be like, oh, okay,you're right.
Like that, that so I carrythey're smart.
These are smart guys.
Our customers are some of thesmartest people, and they can
they can normally suss it outand and they can they can spot
what's abnormal, what doesn'tmake sense.

(47:52):
And so I think, but that comeswith experience too, right?
It comes with experience, andand that's why I think it's you
know, I I I really want the guysto succeed that have been in
this industry for a long time.
The the men and women who havebeen putting their heart and
soul into this industry, that'swhy it's so important they

(48:13):
succeed because they are theones that have all the knowledge
and the and make this economyrun smoothly.
And so, you know, our job is toto help them.
Our job is to help them, to givethem the tools, to give them the
knowledge, the training and theresources they need to run
profitably and and make money.
And that's you know kind of whatwe hold ourselves to.

(48:35):
And so a lot of that comes fromhearing that product feedback
and having those conversations.
I spend half my time on the roadvisiting customers.
Like I said, you know, if you'rein the DET app and there's a
little spot to make a comment, Iread every single one of those.
And I'm not the only one.
A lot of people at DET do that.

(48:55):
And so it get it gets back to usand we take that seriously.
And and and honestly, most ofthe things we do are based off
of customer feedback.

SPEAKER_01 (49:05):
That's amazing.
That's huge.
You know, people's, you know,you you think, man, if I say
something, it's just gonna go ongo somewhere and it's not gonna
be heard.
Yeah, why bring it up?
I know I call my bank, I gotta,I gotta call them again.
And you go through the automatedsystem, and it's just dragging

(49:25):
on, asking the silliestquestions.
And then when you get the personon the phone, they ask the same
questions again.
Uh say, well, that automatedsystem that was pretty rough.
Sorry, sorry, sorry to hearthat, and then just move on.

unknown (49:40):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:41):
Can you try to fix it?

SPEAKER_00 (49:43):
I mean, I wish I could, you know, someone might
say, Hey, I don't like thisabout DAT, and then we change
it, and the other someone elsesays, Oh, why'd you change that?
I liked it, right?
So you got to balance some ofit, but but I think there's
there's common threads whereyou're like, Oh yeah, we that
can definitely be improved.
Give an example.
So, you know, we one of ourproduct managers spends time in

(50:03):
the trucks of of drivers and andrides with them, you know, and
and I try to do the same.
And so, and through studies,we've seen that, you know, tree
typically drivers are trying tofind their next load that
operate in the spot market,right?
They're trying to find theirnext load when they're about you
know 200 miles out right fromfrom drop-off.

(50:23):
And so that can be hard, right?
If you don't have someonedispatching for you, if you're
doing your own self-dispatching,that can be hard.
And so we recently launched uh awidget on the iPhone that you
can add to your your home screenand it will just and it has your
parameters and it will showthree loads that you can call
directly from that home screen.

(50:45):
And that came from direct, youknow, customer feedback.
I don't even think we'veannounced that yet.
But if you have an iPhone andyou have the dat one app, you
can actually go right now andadd it.
I think it's still in beta, butit's open to anyone to add to
their home screen.
And but that comes from directcustomer feedback, right?
And and look, like I've workedin industries where people are
hesitant to give feedback.

(51:08):
This is not one of thoseindustries.
Our drivers will tell us what Imean, they are not shy about
their feedback, they'll tell usexactly where we failed and how
we need to improve.
And I love that about ourcustomers.
And so it because it createsthis this accountability right
on our side, and how do wedeliver and how do we take that

(51:30):
feedback and turn it into waysthat can improve their lives?

SPEAKER_01 (51:34):
Hey man, that's what's up, man.
I like that, you know.
Instead of them having to digfor it, you put it right out
there.
You're gonna go find it anyway.
So might as well put it on thehome screen on your phone, save
your time, less fumbling aroundwith it.
That's huge.
Great job.
Yeah, I hope that continues tobe successful and that everyone
finds that as a something ofvalue.
So I think nice.

(51:55):
Yeah, I mean, is there any othercollaborations or anything that
you haven't seen take place?
I know we like the government totry to get better, I know that
may take time.
What else?
What other areas do you thinkyou're just like, man, if I
could put a little message outthere, get the get people
talking?
So we wish we could see somemore of that.
What would you say?

SPEAKER_00 (52:15):
Yeah, I mean, I I would say that I'd highlight a
few a few of the recent moveswe've made lately as far as the
the acquisitions.
Convoy, I think it's just a it'sa great technology, and and
there's a lot of cool things forowner operators if you download
the app.
Now it is a whole differentballgame, right?

(52:36):
There's there's fraud is almostnon-existent on Convoy because
it is this closed loop systemthat and there's extreme
verification involved.
And so it's it's a really it's areally cool app.
And you can do instant booking,you can bid on loads.
I think it's a it's greattechnology that we're going to
continue to invest in andimprove.

(52:57):
We also acquired a factoringcompany a few months ago, which
I think is by far the best inthe industry because they will
price match any existingcontract.
They will, and there's nocontracts, right?
Like a lot of factoringcompanies, you have to sign like
a year-long agreement, outgo, nocontracts, month to month, you
can quit anytime, but they'llguarantee to you know to match

(53:21):
your current rate, and you canget down to one percent
factoring.
So there's a lot of these thingsthat moves we're trying to make
as we talk to people in theindustry and drivers and say,
okay, what are what are yourproblems?
And then we come back to theboard and we're like, okay, how
do we think we can solve this?
And and if we don't have thetech, that's when you know we
look at these strategicacquisitions of of technology we

(53:45):
can purchase and bring into thefold.
And so overall, it's this, it'swhat we're trying to create is
this end-to-end system just tomake being an owner operator as
simple as possible becausethat's you know ultimately our
goal, right?
That's how our business modelsucceeds when there's a strong,
healthy spot market.
Nice.

SPEAKER_01 (54:04):
I like that.
I think that's gonna definitelyresonate with the industry.
Keep pushing with that.
I mean, those acquisitions seemlike you know, companies are
trying to just grow, but no,they're trying to make things
easier for the user.
So that factoring, I think, isgonna be huge.
How should I look for that?
Is it just a drop-down or a menuoption, or do you gotta call and

(54:25):
talk to you guys?

SPEAKER_00 (54:27):
Yeah, no, there's uh so if you go to dat.com, there's
gonna be a place where you cansee outgo factoring and learn
more about that.
And if it's the right choice foryou, I mean, give them a call
because, like I said, they'llmatch the price, like so.
Uh you got nothing to lose.

SPEAKER_01 (54:44):
Yeah, how cool is that?
I mean, I appreciate you comingon the show.
I mean, you guys are takingthings to the next level.
What advice would you givepeople out there to wrap things
up as to one way to be?
I know it's you got to beuncomfortable, you got to make
the changes so that you can growfor carriers out there.
What would you say to them toget to the next level?

SPEAKER_00 (55:06):
You know, kind of the message that we've spoken
about earlier, right?
Freight cycles come and go.
And and ultimately this one willcome and it will go, and then
another one will come and go,and another one and come and go.
And it's just this game ofsupply and demand.
And so keeping sound business,you know, principles,
remembering what you stand for,remembering what your reputation

(55:29):
is, holding to that.
I think that's how how yousucceed in the long run.
And and some of the best driversI know are just extremely
they're they're they're solidpeople, right?
They're they're unmovable andand they know what they stand
for, and they're not going tocompromise those.
And I love, I love hearing thatand I love talking to people
like that.

(55:50):
And I think that there's just somuch great things happening in
this industry.
We got a lot of problems as anindustry, but there's some
really smart people trying tosolve these problems with with
technology and advocating fordrivers.
And I think I I think I I I seehope.
I see hope for this industry.
I'm really excited for thefuture.
Nice, and I love being part ofit.

(56:12):
Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (56:13):
That's awesome.
Take care of the the the driver,the company, the the broker.
Uh, make sure that there's arock solid industry for people
to come back to.
Like you said, all thatexperience would be a shame if
it were to leave or just getdiluted.
So, man, I'd say bring back theuniform, make it a little more
stronger.
I see a lot of sweatpants outthere and a lot of uniforms just

(56:36):
kind of dying off.
We could bring that back, evenif it's just on the mom and pop
level.
Represent yourself while you'reout there, you know.
Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (56:45):
I was a who was I I was at a conference, uh broker
carrier summit, I think lastyear in Indianapolis, and Trey
Giggs was talking about that.
And he's like, Yeah, like wear apolo of your company name, be
proud of it.
Give give shirts to yourdrivers, let them know what you
stand for, what your name is.
Take pride in it.

SPEAKER_01 (57:03):
Yeah, I don't know why not.
You know, it's a it's freeadvertisement as far as them
walking around with it, butyeah, I don't see why not.
I mean, we watch Formula One andall that stuff.
I mean, there's brands, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (57:17):
Yeah, so am I gonna see you at Matt's this year?

SPEAKER_01 (57:20):
I will.
I'll be there.
Yeah, we'll be there too.
Yeah, it's gonna be great.
I know this show is probablygonna come out in April, but I'm
so glad to have you.
Oh, after me.

SPEAKER_00 (57:30):
Okay, there we go.

SPEAKER_01 (57:30):
Yeah, I wish we could um get back together and
talk about it some more.

SPEAKER_00 (57:33):
I mean, even just your it was great seeing you at
Matt's.
Uh, we had a really greatconversation, really enjoyed it
at Matt's.

SPEAKER_01 (57:40):
So I love it.
Yeah, so man, you you'reawesome, man.
You're doing great things outthere.
I I can't thank you enough fortaking the time to talk to the
listeners out there and tellthem, hey, it's worth being, you
know, more than just a truckingcompany.
You can build that trust withpeople and build those
relationships.
It just keeps resonating withthe industry and the experience

(58:00):
that they have out there.
It's huge for people to get whatthey need.
So, you know, that's anotherepisode of That's Delivered with
uh Christian Griner and DAT, theresources that you guys are
providing for people are huge.
Please keep it up.
I mean, you guys are doing greatthings.
I'm proud of you guys.
I'm sure a lot of other cupcustomers are happy as well.
For those that aren't satisfied,hey, you hear it, you heard it

(58:22):
here.
Christian reads those comments.

SPEAKER_00 (58:24):
So you know, LinkedIn and and send me your
thoughts.

SPEAKER_01 (58:28):
Awesome, man.
And uh, so if you if anyone'sout there listening, if you have
anything you'd like to share,please send it to us.
We'd be happy to get thosetopics talked about on the show.
Um if you want to continue to dowhat you do, uh reach out to
DAT.
What's the best way to reachthem?

SPEAKER_00 (58:44):
Is well we have customer support that will
answer at all times and getanswers to your questions.
And if you have feedback from mepersonally, like I said, just
connect with me on LinkedIn andshoot me a message.

SPEAKER_01 (58:56):
Look forward to it, man.
That's awesome to see thoseconnections continue to grow.
I mean, they see LinkedIn as a Ithink is a great platform for
professionals.
I love the fact that you cantalk about work and the things
that are on your mind there, andit's it doesn't seem like anyone
is dropping a whole lot of uhmisconceptions and and things
like that just to confusepeople, but yet building those

(59:17):
connections so that they canbuild trust.
So keep using LinkedIn for goodand to be a force to be reckoned
with there.
So that's a great place toconnect.
Yeah.
So stay tuned out there, staysafe, and we'll catch you next
episode on Last Delivered.