What keeps you moving when the miles get long and the rules keep changing? We sit down with technologist and community builder Zachariah Copeland for a candid talk about work ethic, sleep, emotional intelligence, and the future of trucking in an automated world. From studio-apartment beginnings to launching a company and a podcast, Zachariah shares the habits and hard lessons that turn grit into momentum—and momentum into impact.
We unpack the grind behind real progress: focused work blocks, lifelong learning, and mentors who model excellence. Health takes center stage as Zachariah opens up about insomnia and the tradeoffs of sleep meds, a conversation that mirrors the realities many drivers face with apnea and fatigue. The practical thread runs through it all: drink more water, cut the processed stuff, stack small wins like five-minute workouts, and guard your alertness like your paycheck depends on it—because it does.
Automation and AI aren’t a doomsday; they’re a fork in the road. We talk self-driving forklifts, pilot programs for autonomous trucks, and where human judgment remains nonnegotiable. Zachariah sketches a road-safety concept that flags potholes, tight curves, and sinkholes in real time—tech designed to protect drivers, not replace them. We push past wealth myths and celebrate “boring” investing: automatic contributions, compound interest, and the power of simply showing up. And we go deep on purpose and legacy—why discipline is freedom, why people should never be discarded, and how community gives us the backbone to adapt.
If you’re a driver, builder, or anyone feeling unseen while doing the work, this conversation is your reminder to control the controllables and keep going. Subscribe, share with someone who needs a lift, and leave a review to help more folks find the show.
Key Takeaways 👇
✅ Build momentum through focused work blocks, lifelong learning, and seeking mentors who exemplify excellence.
✅ Prioritize health basics: stay hydrated, avoid processed foods, incorporate short workouts, and manage sleep issues like insomnia without over-relying on meds.
✅ View automation as an opportunity—self-driving tech can enhance safety, but human judgment is irreplaceable in trucking.
✅ Embrace “boring” investing strategies like automatic contributions and compound interest for long-term wealth.
✅ Remember that discipline equals freedom, value people over disposability, and lean on community for resilience in changing times.
If you’re a driver, builder, or anyone feeling unseen while doing the work, this conversation is your reminder to control the controllables and keep going. Subscribe, share with someone who needs a lift, and leave a review to help more folks find the show.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
What's going on, everyone?
Welcome back to That'sDelivered, the podcast that
talks about all things truckingand beyond.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray.
And a few weeks back, I was atBarnes and Noble's and I ran
into a great individual and areal conversation I did not plan
for.
But turns out the guy is anentrepreneur and he's making big
(00:21):
strives out here in theMinneapolis St.
Paul area.
And uh wanted to have him on theshow.
He has his own podcast that hewas doing, the next great mind.
Now he also has another companythat he's working on to make
some changes and also to makesome new innovation for the
world to see.
And we can't wait to see what hehas in store.
(00:42):
Now, you know, a lot of thingsstart with trucking.
You know, you got to put thingson the truck to get going, but
also the entrepreneur mindset,the vision, the discipline that
you have to have nowadays, thelong-term thinking.
And that's what we're bringinghere today, as our guest is all
about that.
Zachariah Copeland.
Glad to have him on the show.
(01:03):
Zachariah, glad to have you onthe show, my man.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Pretty good, pretty good.
So, should I look at my computercamera or look at you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Yeah, you can look right at me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Awesome.
I just want to I don't want tobe cock-eyed out here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
It's okay.
We like cock-eyed too.
Yeah, we take all kinds ofeverybody.
So, yeah, man.
Thank you so much for being onthe show, man.
I'm glad to have you and um tellyour story.
I think it's great that we havea lot of people out there that
are ambitious doing things tohelp the community right here
locally.
So, who are you and why shoulddrivers care about what you got
planned here?
You just it's a lot of greatthings you're involved in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Man, really, I don't really think I'm anybody to be
honest with you.
I'm just a hard-workingindividual.
That's at my core.
You know, I went to theUniversity of Tennessee at
Martin, didn't graduate with ahigh GPA, worked, started
working for like$14,$15.
It might have been$12 at Dell ona Boeing contract.
(02:02):
So I was hustling back then, youknow, staying in the studio
apartment and then, you know,just kind of work my way up
through the IT ranks.
So, but you know, that's justthat's just the work side.
You know, at my heart, you know,I'm really a community, uh
community-oriented guy.
If I see someone in trouble, youknow, I'll try to do the best I
can.
(02:22):
I I don't always donate to, youknow, you go to McDonald's or
you go to Staples or whatever itis.
Do you want to donate?
I don't always do that, but youknow, if there's a homeless
person, not able to feed them,and we're able to have a real
conversation, and you know,maybe I could cheer them up, and
they definitely impart somewisdom on me about to keep
going.
(02:43):
And you know, we'll chop it upand we'll do that.
So that's really at my heartthough for me.
You know, everything work iswork.
No, I don't have a I don't havewife and kids, so I don't have
that going on.
But you know, right now it'sjust work and you know building
the community.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
That's amazing, and that's a lot of reasons why we
have this podcast, not justtrucking, but you know, all the
people that get supported by theindustry as well.
And uh, you're going to school.
I mean, software engineer, isthat right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
No, no, no, no.
I um I would like to be asoftware engineer because I mean
a lot of people know that's agreat profession.
Right now, my official title isa knock analyst one at the
University of Wisconsin inMadison, you know, making the
big bucks, making the big bucks.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
But uh, but uh yeah, yeah.
I just I I've always um wantedto be a a software engineer
coming out of coming out of UT,but just never had really had
the right opportunity.
So, you know, just gotta keepgrinding and you know, see what
opportunities come available.
But at the time, you know, I wasno, just just to be honest with
you, I built my company out offrustration because you know, I
(03:52):
just didn't see theopportunities there available
for me, and I was just like,okay, well, I could just keep
waiting around or I just do myown thing.
So I decided to do my own thing,and now that now the
opportunities are coming, youknow how that goes, you know.
So I can I can quit the companyand go through opportunities, or
I can go to the company and quitthe opportunities.
I'm just gonna do everything.
(04:13):
So, you know, about the podcast,so I kind of scaled that back a
little bit so I can kind offocus my resources on on these
couple of things I have going.
I didn't want to spread myselftoo thin.
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
Nice.
I mean, from one podcaster toanother, man, it takes a lot of
ambition to do what you'redoing.
A lot of people out therelistening are drivers, owner
operators, small fleet owners.
I'm sure they started out doingone thing, maybe had to end up
doing another.
So you gotta change, you gottabe able to pivot.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Uh so yeah, I like that you have uh another dream
of being a software engineer.
I know there's a lot of softwareout there that needs to be done
with AI, and autonomous trucksare coming, and so they're gonna
need people out there to buildthese things and and make make
them user-friendly, make themintuitive, very intuitive.
Absolutely.
So when you realize uh youaren't chasing a paycheck, but
(05:03):
trying to build something thatactually matters, I think that's
really where the change happens.
So, what keeps you consistentand keep you motivated for for
your mind, you know, when yourmindset?
What what's some of the thingsthat sleep?
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yes, I struggle with sleep coming out of college.
Uh, you know, if I go to thedoctor, they'll probably
diagnose me with insomnia.
Um so I I something I I work onconstantly.
I'm actually going to see asleep uh doctor on the 13th.
Because right now I'm takingsleep medications and that's
(05:39):
fine, but I don't want to dothat for like until I'm 50,
because we all know that thesemedications, they they uh
there's gonna be some sideeffects.
There's gonna be some sideeffects.
So right now I'm notexperiencing anything.
You know, I'm 37, I'm notexperiencing anything, but
that's not to say that 10-15years down the line I won't
experience something, you know,whatever it may be.
I I don't I don't know.
(06:00):
I I could do a whole bunch ofresearch, but then I would take
time, I would take time awayfrom my stuff I'm doing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
So yeah, there's sorry about that.
Yeah, there's a lot of truckersthat are taking in medication.
You know, there's sleep apnea,is huge, insomnia is huge.
So a lot of truckers out therecan relate to that, even if
you're not pushing the big rig.
So if you had to explain yourwork ethic to a room full of
(06:26):
truckers, how would you describeit?
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Insane.
Insane.
Now I haven't gone, I haven'tgone like three days without
sleep, but the most I'veprobably done is probably two or
or at least in a in a in athree-day span, probably I
probably got about 12 hours, youknow, and that's not to say that
(06:52):
oh you stay awake because youyou could stay awake, but you
could be unproductive, you know.
So that doesn't mean anything.
I'm just saying, like it, I Iattribute like to me, I I have
there's a couple things you do.
You could either do focus workor you could do like kind of
semi-work and kind of spread itout uh over intervals or
(07:12):
whatever.
This kind of depends on what youwant to do.
I I I kind of do a little bit ofboth.
It depends on you know, I justkind of depend on how I'm
feeling.
If I if I want to spend an houror two doing focus work, no
distractions, then I'll do that.
Or if I want to kind of likehave my phone on music or
whatever, and then vibe outwhile I'm doing work, then I'll
do that.
So, and I gotta say, shout outto my uncle Eugene Johnson.
(07:35):
Uh, he really he really helpedme develop my work ethic.
He's a pastor in Madison,Wisconsin, the Madison
Pentecostal assembly, and youknow, he let me stay with him
for you know like six months,six to eight months, and I
really got to see his workethic, in terms of his church.
You know, obviously he had otherstuff going on.
He worked for, he actuallyworked for the state of
(07:57):
Wisconsin.
So I got to see that.
Well, he retired by the time Istayed with him, but in terms of
just like reading, being avoracious reader, um, which I
think is important becausethat's a part of learning.
If we don't read, we can'tincrease our knowledge on
things, whether it's an articleonline or whether it's a book,
whether it's or whether youconsume it through Audible, you
(08:18):
know, just keep gettinginformation.
So that's a part of the workethic.
Being a constant learner, youknow, a lot of kids nowadays
they think, Oh, okay, I went toschool, got my 40 degree, now
I'm chilling.
Well, in the IT world, you'regonna become obsolete because
the IT world moves, it moves, itmoves, moves, and moves.
So if you're not constantlylearning, you're gonna be
(08:39):
behind, and you're gonna you'renot probably won't have a job.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
So you don't want, yeah.
So as a visionary shaping theminds of the new individuals
coming in.
I mean, you're talking a lotabout that, the tech, the
culture, your purpose andconviction.
How do you personally define thegreat mind?
Because that was also one of thereasons why you did your
podcast.
Yeah, how would you describethat?
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Man, man, that was and when I read that question
you sent me, I was I was like,man, that's that's tough, man.
Because, like, that's to me,that's a subjective question.
Because, like, everybody hastheir own definition.
So, to answer itintrospectively, to me, I define
a great mind.
You gotta have a high IQ.
Like, that's just that's justthat goes along with it.
(09:22):
You gotta have a high IQ.
Now, you can have that, doesn'tmean you have to high IQ in
engineering or whatever.
You could have a high IQ in indesign, you can have a high IQ
in painting, you know.
How do you find that out?
Good question.
Me Carson, yeah, uh discipline,but also too, like if you get a
(09:46):
lot of people saying, Hey, yourwork is good, you need to put
this out there to the world, Iwill say that's outward
validation, and you can you cango off that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Yeah, I got a friend of mine that does really well
with numbers and learning aboutthe stock market and investments
and things like that.
I think now he wants to learnmore about options.
So, yeah, I mean, there'sthere's a lot out there that you
can dabble in and see, hey, isthat something I'm gonna do?
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
No, no, no, now your friend is he is that a hobby or
does he really want to?
That's the thing.
People have interest, but totake it to that next level, you
can you could tell them, hey,you should do this, but they
won't really take it seriouslyuntil it flips.
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
Yeah, it's a hobby.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Okay, okay.
Well then that's and that that'salso good too, because that
hobby could become somethingserious.
He just like you said, it justif he sticks with it.
And he doesn't have to, if hehas a family, he doesn't have to
put in 20 hours a day or 20hours a week, just consistency.
Like, you know, there's a bookthat I didn't finish called
(10:54):
Atomic Habits.
One thing that stuck out to meis it was talking about just
being consistent.
And so, say, for example, youyou you want to lose weight or
build muscle, and you're tiredfrom work or you're tired from
having a family life orwhatever, go to the gym, five
minutes.
(11:14):
Five minutes.
I like the body bag.
Do the body bag, do the do thebody bag, five minutes, get that
out, boom.
Next day, you got 15 moreminutes, boom, do 15 more
minutes, boom.
Next day, you got 30 minutes,boom, do 30 minutes, boom.
That's consistency.
So, why didn't you finish thebook?
(11:39):
I saw it on Instagram, that'swhy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
Uh, because I there's a lot of books I don't
finish.
I'll start out and I love theintro, and then I get lost in
the body.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
Um, yeah, so my friend told me a little tippy,
my friend told me that may beboredom, and you gotta push
through that.
You gotta push through.
All right, I gotta push throughthat myself.
I got and all these books Igotta finish.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
Yeah, that's how we met at the Barnes and Noble.
Yeah, it's doing it, man.
People buying books left andright, bookstores are doing
well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
We just we just gotta keep grinding because
there's a lot of pages, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
There's a lot to learn in a short period of time.
Life goes by so fast, yeah.
You know, so yeah, I mean, thinkabout that.
It's for a lot of people outthere that want to learn
something, they get starteddoing something right out of
high school, and then they say,you know what?
Man, I I wish I knew what I knownow because I would do something
different.
Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot oftruck drivers out there, they
got a lot of time on theirhands, and they can listen to
(12:40):
audible books and they can learnthings.
So maybe there's a second wavethat uh second thing that
they're gonna be able to do.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
So you know, I can I make a prediction for the
truckers?
Yeah, I believe so withtrucking, I don't know much
about the business, but I knowfrom what we talked about, and
uh so with uh automation and allthat, obviously we have we have
we have uh self-driving truckdrivers, and then there's safety
regulations and all that.
So are you guys experiencing thethe layoffs right now?
(13:11):
Because it's it's gonnaeverybody every sector is gonna
experience layoffs, but thenthere's gonna spirit there we're
gonna come a time where we thosewho have upskilled are going to
and who who are who have adaptedto the change are gonna be able
to pivot into the sector.
Has that happened or what what'sgoing on?
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
Yeah, we definitely can see it.
There's a lot of automation ifit's not just in the truck
factor, it's in the buildingthat gives us the goods.
So, like self-driving forklifts.
Saw a video about that the otherday where they're got a bunch of
forklifts, and so some CDLholders have a experience
driving forklift.
Okay, and so they load thetrucks and things they may not
(13:54):
drive, but they work in thewarehouse, so maybe they gotta
revisit going back into thetruck.
There's a lot of things that,like you said, you gotta expand
your mind and make it stretch tosee what the possibilities of
what you'll be able to do.
Because, like you said, maybeyour company is one that's gonna
be investing in some newchanges, and you're just like,
(14:15):
What do I do?
You know, do I just you knowjust get upset?
Well, you don't get a lot donewhen you're upset.
So a lot of people out thereworked hard to get to where
they're at to be a truck driver,exactly.
And then now you got thiscoming, you're like, what's
going on?
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Exactly, exactly.
You know, it's like I spent fouryears in college just to have my
job automated, you know what I'msaying?
So, but this is a part of life,man.
You know, yeah.
What's your take on that?
How do you feel about that?
That's another thing youmentioned, you mentioned like
what gets me going.
These changes that get me going.
I like challenges, you know.
I like to challenge myself.
(14:53):
You know, I took computerscience courses at UT Martin and
I failed uh, I couldn't tell youhow many I failed, but I
eventually I had to pivotbecause I had to get out with a
degree, and so I just that thattaught me not at a certain
point, you can only take so manyhits, and so you gotta say,
(15:14):
okay, I gotta pivot.
So that's what I pivoted.
But what it told me is I do likechallenges, and I don't think
that's a bad thing.
I don't think taking onchallenges is a bad thing, but
you you do have to learn how topivot.
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
So mindset, adversity, wealth.
I mean, we think about this uh agreat month to think about black
history and where we come fromand where we're going.
So I watched a couple of yourepisodes that stood out where
you let people, you know,behind, you know, you don't let
them hide behind clean answers,you know.
(15:47):
Um you saw that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
I like the real man.
Don't don't sugarcoat me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Nice, don't sugarcoat you.
Yeah.
So what do you say uh fortruckers who deal with a lot of
adversities daily?
You know, they got the weather,you got breakdown, there's time
you're away from home.
A lot of folks, and they make adecent amount of money, but they
also feel like they're beingleft behind because they're
constantly just stuck in thattruck.
What's one of the biggestmisconceptions people have about
wealth?
(16:15):
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Oh, man, I was hoping you asked me about the
truckers, but you you pivoted towealth.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
Okay, so yeah, mix them together.
I mean, they're building wealthfor themselves.
Maybe they're maybe they got apension, maybe they got a 401k.
SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
So to to to answer a little bit about because I
really wanted to touch on that.
I think having a support systemis important.
When we're in that foxhole byyourself, whether you have a
friend, whether you have a wife,a husband, children, whatever
you got.
I think having I me personally,it's it's my my church.
They're a great support systemsystem.
My uncle, my cousins, I have agood support system around me.
(17:16):
I think that's important.
Um, so that was kind of likethat answer pivoted to the
wealth part.
So people get wrong about wealthis I think a lot of people think
it's easy.
I think a lot of people thinklike, you know, even for even
for uh gifted people, they thinkit's easy.
(17:37):
Well, you got a high IQ or yougot connections or daddy's
paying your tuition.
All of these could be true, ornone of them could be true.
You know, I think at the end ofthe day, is like Kobe, like
Jordan, like like Tiger Woods,nobody escapes hard work.
(17:58):
Nobody, yeah.
So I don't care how gifted youare, you're not gonna escape the
hard work.
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
So yeah, that's uh a lot of companies they just want
people to show up.
You know, it's it's crazy howthat is a huge requirement that
if we just hope that you show upon time and put in the hard
work, that dedication, that youthat sets you above the rest
right there.
And they can work with the rest,they can try to train you and
help you learn new things, andyou can continue to build that
(18:25):
wealth for yourself.
When I think of wealth, I thinkof you know, maybe you get some
real estate.
But first of all, I thinkinvesting.
I think a lot of people get itbackwards, they think real
estate, they think of business,but just learning to invest in
something that's tangible, likethe stock market or 401k for
yourself.
Uh, that goes a long way.
(18:46):
I think that's the starter.
I am that's the boring one.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Yeah, I I have a I have an acorns account, so shout
out to acorns that do automaticinvesting.
You know, I I've kind of fallenoff because I I had other
expenditures, but man, 2020,like we just talked about atomic
habits,$20 here,$30, it goes along way, trust me.
Yeah, it does.
Compound interest.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Yeah, the compound interest doesn't work until you
have something in there.
Yeah, it can't compound itself.
So yeah, I think if you can getto a hundred thousand dollars,
then you really start makingsome traction.
But before that, it feels likeyou're not doing a whole lot,
yeah.
But but yeah, keep trying, keepdon't give up, move on to the
next thing, stay positive, yeah,for sure.
(19:34):
Uh, is that what works for youand the mindset there for
yourself, also personally?
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I'm probably I gotta be honestwith you man, I'm probably one
of the most positive peopleyou're ever gonna meet in your
life.
I say that with confidence.
So, you know, uh I don't knowwhere I got it from, but just
having a positive mindset.
Now, that's not to say I don'thave days where I'm like, you
know, well, I may want to cusssomebody out.
(19:58):
You know, it it it comes andgoes.
Yeah.
So I think also too, this wholethis whole wave about emotional
intelligence.
I don't really consider it awave.
I think that's the thing.
I think emotional intelligenceis big.
I read this, I read another bookI didn't finish.
Is is emotional intelligencebetter than having a high IQ?
(20:21):
I think it is.
Because if you don't if youdon't know how to manage your
emotions, you're gonna be adetriment to your family, you're
gonna be a detriment to yourcoworkers, you're gonna be a
detriment to your roommates,you're gonna be a detriment to
your church community, you'rejust gonna be a detriment.
And so you we gotta learn how tomanage our emotions, yeah.
(20:42):
Cause uh you can be easy easilymanipulated, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Yeah, so people like to exploit people, they like to
prey on your emotions and getyou worked up about certain
topics.
They may be important, it may besomething valid, but how much do
you want to let it control you?
Thank you, thank you.
Control your controllables iswhat I heard.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
Control your controllables.
I gotta write that down reallyquick.
Control your controllables,okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
Yeah, because some things are just out of our
control.
So what was another one we wantto talk about?
Is if you had a place to buildone simple piece of tech to make
a driver's life easy.
I wanted to throw you a randomone like that.
Okay, what would you do?
What would you do to makedriver's life easy?
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Maybe it's some tech that you yeah, I would I would
say so.
I just I just took a lift todayto Menards and the streets were
kind of crazy.
I think you guys deal with thata lot.
I think because there's budgetswith cities and all that other
stuff, and so I think you guysdeal with that a lot.
(21:51):
So I would I would create sometech that would say, hey, we got
a pothole coming up, we got wegot you know, we got this coming
up, we got we got somethingcoming up to to so you guys can
pivot.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Man, like yeah, a little heads up.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So that that's what I would do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Especially sinkholes, huh?
Sinkholes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
A tight curve, tight curve, you know.
And I already know Google'sprobably already working on
that.
They they they have a little bitof that, but you know, it could
always be better.
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
That sounds terrible.
But A lot of piles, especiallyin the winter time up here, man.
Those snow plows they reallymake them.
So, how would you innovatewithout losing the human or
safety side of work?
You know, sometimes peopleforget about the human factor or
the safety side of it, that itcould be a little bit dangerous.
(22:43):
Yeah.
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Working with humans is an intrinsic part of my
personality.
Like, you know, I know we gotAI, but I really value the
ingenuity of humans.
AI can do a lot of stuff, butthere's nothing like a human
touch to a product.
You know, I I followed SteveJobs a lot when he came up, you
(23:10):
know, ostensibly in his career.
And even though he was an a-holeat times, from what I've heard,
he knew how to make a goodproduct.
You know, he spent some time inIndia, you know, on drugs or
whatever.
And, you know, some say thatcould help him, helped him, you
know, think creatively, but youknow that's funny.
(23:31):
I'm just talking about I likeit.
Keep going.
But you know, I think that'sjust a part of who I am because
you know, so that's not going tobe for everybody.
Some people would be like, well,I can I can have AI do 20
people's jobs.
Okay, go do it.
You know, me personally, I I maytake I may want to work with
(23:53):
five people, maybe build anautomated system, and then want
to work with two offshorepeople.
So now, in terms of safety, whenwe built that product,
everybody's gonna have their ownmindset.
So everybody's gonna have theirown thought process.
So it's as a as um as a leader,you know, a CTO or a CEO,
(24:17):
whatever, it's up to me to say,hey, this is not a safe product.
Because you're gonna if you ifyou build something fast, you're
sacrificing safety.
And you're sacrificing a goodmaking a good product.
But if you take too long, thenyou may miss, you may miss
deadlines.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
So yeah, you gotta be careful.
So that goes into the nextsegment: purpose, discipline,
and legacy.
The great mind, you know, youdid a lot of great work about
the next great mind.
For a lot of drivers out there,they're struggling with
isolation, burnout.
Purpose is what keeps peoplesteady when the road gets long.
Uh, what's the cost of livingwithout purpose?
(25:00):
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
It's everything.
It is everything.
Because if you don't havepurpose, you don't have anything
to keep you going.
And we I think we touched onthat.
If you have kids, that's gonnakeep you going.
If you have a wife, a husband,that's gonna keep you going.
If you have the work, if youjust if you just want to be a
workaholic, that's gonna keepyou going.
(25:25):
Because you're like, man, I loveworking.
So I'm gonna keep doing it.
I think a lot of the greats, youknow, competitively, they were
constantly work workaholics.
But some of them, some of them,like Kobe, Kobe, for example, I
think he was a family man, whichwhich is great.
I really valued that.
(25:45):
You know, did he do everythingperfectly?
No.
But I think he understood thevalue of family.
So, you know, and that'ssomething that I hope to make
sure I keep in the forefront ofmy mind.
I look at my uncle, as Imentioned before, he's been with
one woman for for I mean, priorto getting married.
(26:06):
I mean, yeah, well, well, youknow, as he got married, he's
been with one woman since he gotmarried.
And so me seeing that, eventhough even if I wasn't like I
didn't see all the fights or allthe all the all the conflict
resolutions, I got I they'remarried, you know, they have
kids, they have a successfulchurch, so that tells me that
(26:30):
can be done.
So commitment, commitment that'spretty rare nowadays.
That's very rare, very rare,especially for my generation.
And it's only and it's onlygoing down.
It's only going down.
What's that like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
It's scary, it's it's scary, but we just gotta
stay positive, stay positive,you go, yes, stay positive, and
do things to fight back, likespeak out about it, like you're
doing right now, so that otherpeople know that they're not
alone.
And so, how do you personallydefine discipline?
(27:05):
Is it freedom or a restriction?
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Both you have the freedom to restrict yourself.
So you have the freedom to say,hey, I'm not gonna eat a box of
chocolates every single day.
You know, and and I I probablysay that because I last year I
was like three, oh not three, Iwas like 275.
(27:33):
I'm down to today, I weighmyself in like 227.
So I'm you know, that's happyabout my progress.
SPEAKER_02 (27:41):
That's that's huge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah.
If we're not able to stayhealthy, we're gonna clock out.
So with that goes along withtruck driving, because we're
we're you're sweating, you'resitting, you're sitting for
hours and hours on end, right?
You know, it's just like it.
We're sitting on hours and hourson end.
So we gotta watch our what we'reputting in our bodies, you know.
(28:03):
Like right now, I'm drinkingwater, you know, drink a lot of
water, try to cut down onsweets, try to cut down on a lot
of processed foods and whatnot.
(28:37):
So pivoting back to yourquestion, is it freedom or
restriction?
I think it's a little bit ofboth because it's your freedom
to restrict yourself or notrestrict yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
There you go.
So, another question I wanted toget your opinion on is what does
a legacy actually mean when yougo beyond money and recognition?
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
I think it's building something you're proud
of.
Whether it's company, whetherit's foundation, whether it's
family, saying, Hey, I'm proudof my two boys, they got on a
roll.
I'm proud of my daughter, she'sa kickboxing champion, you know.
(29:23):
Yeah, so whatever it is, thoseare things to be proud of.
I'm proud of my brother.
Like, I have a brother who'shandicapped.
I love him to death, you know.
Not able to talk to him as muchas I want to, but I'm proud that
he's still here with me, youknow.
He he's had his own troubles,and so I'm proud that he's still
(29:45):
here with me.
He's always on my mind.
So, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:49):
Yeah, that's what's up.
I got a brother as well.
He's older than me.
I'm the youngest, and it's niceto know that I have someone else
here in the world thatunderstands me.
So, yeah, I mean that's that'shuge.
Family is great, may go throughhard times together, but in the
end, you know, you you only getone.
You know, the ones you you don'treally choose them either.
(30:09):
So you were the fighter.
Have you have you and yourbrother fought before?
Uh, we didn't do too muchactually.
We did pretty good.
Okay, okay.
That's nice.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
Me and my brother had a couple fights.
We had a couple fights, but uhhe's he's hella.
He's not he's in he's older now,but back in the day, man, that
dude has some grown man strengthat like 20 21 years old, man.
God dog.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
Wow, yeah, that's good.
You know, people help you findyour boundaries, help you
understand where the respectneeds to be, like said for
safety and stuff.
Well, yeah, strength, you know,you can hurt somebody.
So, what belief do you have tounlearn to grow?
(30:55):
What do what belief did you holdon to?
And you say, you know what, Igotta let that go.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
I don't know.
I'm I don't think I'm there yet.
Like with this company, Istarted doing everything, and
and I now have a a businesspartner, an employee named uh
Marquise uh Young, who's also apastor.
So he he's a CFO.
(31:25):
I mean, so I had to let that go.
Now I'm probably gonna be CTOfor a little while, but there's
gonna come a time where I'mgonna have to be like, okay, I
gotta let this go.
So I think it comes withdiscernment, it comes with
practicality.
Yeah, discernment andpracticality definitely for me,
(31:48):
and no, nobody can tell you whento let go except yourself,
really.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
You know, yeah, nobody can tell you.
So is that Zach Gideon SystemsIncorporated?
It is, it is, it is all right.
Yeah, so look those guys up andcheck them out, see what's going
on there.
So, for someone who's listeningwho feels invisible and not
seen, or you know, but they showup every day.
I'm sure you know, as a companyowner, you're trying to see
(32:14):
individuals and look at theirqualities.
What would you want them to hearright now?
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
You know, you said you say look at the qualities.
Are you talking about just as aperson or or for hiring?
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
Yeah, all above.
Yeah, it's just you know, to gounseen.
Maybe it's something thatthey've been trying to reach out
towards and they're trying toget it done, but uh there's
meant what I think.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
I think the first thing, so there's two parts to
that question.
There's uh what they're doing interms of how to get hired.
I think they gotta look at whythey're doing what they're
doing.
Are they doing it just for themoney, or are they doing it
because they really love it, orare they doing it because
someone told them to, or arethey doing it because they saw a
(32:59):
commercial on an algorithm?
Yeah, there's there's a lot, andand then the other thing is to
get hired, you just gotta makeyourself valuable, really.
That's what I'm doing right now.
You know, I had to scale backwith some things.
I had like I just mentioned Ihad to scale back on the podcast
(33:19):
to focus on some things, butworking on my resume.
Yeah, even even as a CTO, I'mworking on my resume.
I'm working on the company, thecompany's resume.
So, what does that mean?
That means the brand.
I'm working on the companybrand.
I I I want my company to be abrand that says we're about
(33:42):
community.
Yeah, we we don't so I got alittle emotional because I've
I've seen this in my career.
We don't discard people, youknow?
Yeah, right.
Some people, yeah, it's rough.
(34:04):
I'm gonna move on.
I'm gonna get emotional.
We're gonna move on.
Yeah, I know.
That's a tough subject.
That's a tough subject for me.
Okay, that's a tough subject.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Yeah, I mean, you try your hardest, and then you
kind of met with a lot ofadversity, and people try to
say, hey, you know, you shouldbe doing it this way, and you're
trying to do it that way.
Or you're or you're not goodenough, right?
Or you're not good enough, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Or you're worthless.
Yeah, yeah.
I've I've I've seen that.
I've I've seen people, a lot ofpeople discard people because
they think they have no economicvalue, and that hurts the
community.
SPEAKER_02 (34:44):
Nicely said, Yeah, I like that.
You said it nice and simple forpeople to get, and instead of,
like you said, takes the emotionout of it, you hit it right nail
on the head there, man.
You don't nobody should feelthat way.
Yeah, so we all have somethingwe can contribute.
And with a lot of the changeswith technology and everything,
(35:07):
they're great and exciting, butwe want to be careful we're not
uh discarding people and justcreating voids for people to
feel worthless.
So if we can add that value, Ithink it's a win.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
So I I like you, I like your Ray.
I like you.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
Thank you.
Yeah, man, that's all what it'sall about.
Is we can find that commonground with everyone.
Uh, we may see thingsdifferently, but uh, if we can
come together for something,then uh we're gonna be able to
deliver something great.
And uh that's why I started thispodcast is to get that out there
for a lot of people to see.
Yeah, a lot of people to hearthat and their ear that hey,
this is you're not alone outhere.
No matter what you're doing,even if you're not driving the
(35:46):
truck, you're contributing insome way.
So appreciate that, man.
SPEAKER_00 (35:49):
Now I and I appreciate you doing this in
Minneapolis, man.
Right now, you know, we we'vehad a we're we we've had a lot
of trouble with Trump and ICEand this, that, and the other.
But people like you, man, thatare doing it and putting the
city on, like like you have alot of episodes out, man.
I I didn't look at subscribers,I didn't look at any of that.
(36:10):
I just said this dude's puttingin work.
I want to be a part of that.
Can I be a part of that?
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Trying to get me now, huh?
You are a part of it.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
And yeah, no matter what side ofthe aisle you're on or what you
believe, if we come together andfind something that we can we
can agree on, I think we'll goto a better place.
Like you said, the city has beenthrough a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
But that's something we can agree on.
Yeah, I think it no matter whereyou're you're from or what you
do, that's you you could justturn on TV and yeah, Minnesota's
popping up.
So, where can they find you?
Where do we want people to lookfor you if they want to learn
more about what the great thingsyou're doing?
And give me so.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Right now, my website is down.
I'll get that back up when I getthat back up.
But uh, you can go to uhgideonsis.ai.
So that'll be back up soon.
You can find me.
You you can look me up onUniversity of Wisconsin.
On LinkedIn, on LinkedIn.
I'm on LinkedIn.
(37:13):
So Zachariah CopelandZ-E-C-H-A-R-I-A-H-C-O-P-E-L-A-N-D.
Look me up.
I'm the one with I forgot, Iforgot.
I changed my picture.
I may be doing this.
There you go.
Gotta have time.
Something important.
I was saying somethingimportant.
So, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:35):
I like that platform.
I think it's a good platform forprofessionals to come together,
yeah, and see each other'sstrengths.
So exactly.
All right, well, uh, to end itup with you know, this episode,
I think it's a great episode.
We get this put out for peopleto listen to.
Uh, big thanks to you,Zachariah.
And appreciate you guys doingall that hard work over there
yourself, too, for the city.
You're putting on a lot of greatwork.
(37:56):
So putting in that that hardwork that you need that you
mentioned.
You know, you can't can'tsubstitute it.
Can't substitute it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
No, you can't.
SPEAKER_02 (38:03):
No, you can't.
All right.
So appreciate your ready, man.
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
And whatever you're doing, keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
Thank you.
All right, appreciate it.
If anyone at home likes whatthey see, like what they hear,
please give a shout out to us,bring uh support, subscribe in
any way you can, or leave areview.
If you have a question you wantus to bring on the show, be sure
to do so.
We'd love to hear from you.
And if you're thinking of uhanything long term, a big shout
out to Zach Gideon Systems.
Uh, reach out to those guys,give the support that they need.
(38:31):
I'm glad they have them on theshow.
And for me to Truck and Ray,thanks for listening, and that's
delivered.
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
God bless y'all.
What's going on, everyone?
Welcome back to That'sDelivered, the podcast that
talks about all things truckingand beyond.
I'm your host, Trucking Ray.
And a few weeks back, I was atBarnes and Noble's and I ran
into a great individual and areal conversation I did not plan
for.
But turns out the guy is anentrepreneur and he's making big
(00:21):
strives out here in theMinneapolis St.
Paul area.
And uh wanted to have him on theshow.
He has his own podcast that hewas doing, the next great mind.
Now he also has another companythat he's working on to make
some changes and also to makesome new innovation for the
world to see.
And we can't wait to see what hehas in store.
(00:42):
Now, you know, a lot of thingsstart with trucking.
You know, you got to put thingson the truck to get going, but
also the entrepreneur mindset,the vision, the discipline that
you have to have nowadays, thelong-term thinking.
And that's what we're bringinghere today, as our guest is all
about that.
Zachariah Copeland.
Glad to have him on the show.
(01:03):
Zachariah, glad to have you onthe show, my man.
How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
Pretty good, pretty good.
So, should I look at my computercamera or look at you?
SPEAKER_02 (01:11):
Yeah, you can look right at me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
Awesome.
I just want to I don't want tobe cock-eyed out here.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
It's okay.
We like cock-eyed too.
Yeah, we take all kinds ofeverybody.
So, yeah, man.
Thank you so much for being onthe show, man.
I'm glad to have you and um tellyour story.
I think it's great that we havea lot of people out there that
are ambitious doing things tohelp the community right here
locally.
So, who are you and why shoulddrivers care about what you got
planned here?
You just it's a lot of greatthings you're involved in.
SPEAKER_00 (01:40):
Man, really, I don't really think I'm anybody to be
honest with you.
I'm just a hard-workingindividual.
That's at my core.
You know, I went to theUniversity of Tennessee at
Martin, didn't graduate with ahigh GPA, worked, started
working for like$14,$15.
It might have been$12 at Dell ona Boeing contract.
(02:02):
So I was hustling back then, youknow, staying in the studio
apartment and then, you know,just kind of work my way up
through the IT ranks.
So, but you know, that's justthat's just the work side.
You know, at my heart, you know,I'm really a community, uh
community-oriented guy.
If I see someone in trouble, youknow, I'll try to do the best I
can.
(02:22):
I I don't always donate to, youknow, you go to McDonald's or
you go to Staples or whatever itis.
Do you want to donate?
I don't always do that, but youknow, if there's a homeless
person, not able to feed them,and we're able to have a real
conversation, and you know,maybe I could cheer them up, and
they definitely impart somewisdom on me about to keep
going.
(02:43):
And you know, we'll chop it upand we'll do that.
So that's really at my heartthough for me.
You know, everything work iswork.
No, I don't have a I don't havewife and kids, so I don't have
that going on.
But you know, right now it'sjust work and you know building
the community.
SPEAKER_02 (02:58):
That's amazing, and that's a lot of reasons why we
have this podcast, not justtrucking, but you know, all the
people that get supported by theindustry as well.
And uh, you're going to school.
I mean, software engineer, isthat right?
SPEAKER_00 (03:09):
No, no, no, no.
I um I would like to be asoftware engineer because I mean
a lot of people know that's agreat profession.
Right now, my official title isa knock analyst one at the
University of Wisconsin inMadison, you know, making the
big bucks, making the big bucks.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
There you go.
SPEAKER_00 (03:29):
But uh, but uh yeah, yeah.
I just I I've always um wantedto be a a software engineer
coming out of coming out of UT,but just never had really had
the right opportunity.
So, you know, just gotta keepgrinding and you know, see what
opportunities come available.
But at the time, you know, I wasno, just just to be honest with
you, I built my company out offrustration because you know, I
(03:52):
just didn't see theopportunities there available
for me, and I was just like,okay, well, I could just keep
waiting around or I just do myown thing.
So I decided to do my own thing,and now that now the
opportunities are coming, youknow how that goes, you know.
So I can I can quit the companyand go through opportunities, or
I can go to the company and quitthe opportunities.
I'm just gonna do everything.
(04:13):
So, you know, about the podcast,so I kind of scaled that back a
little bit so I can kind offocus my resources on on these
couple of things I have going.
I didn't want to spread myselftoo thin.
SPEAKER_02 (04:23):
Nice.
I mean, from one podcaster toanother, man, it takes a lot of
ambition to do what you'redoing.
A lot of people out therelistening are drivers, owner
operators, small fleet owners.
I'm sure they started out doingone thing, maybe had to end up
doing another.
So you gotta change, you gottabe able to pivot.
SPEAKER_01 (04:40):
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (04:40):
Uh so yeah, I like that you have uh another dream
of being a software engineer.
I know there's a lot of softwareout there that needs to be done
with AI, and autonomous trucksare coming, and so they're gonna
need people out there to buildthese things and and make make
them user-friendly, make themintuitive, very intuitive.
Absolutely.
So when you realize uh youaren't chasing a paycheck, but
(05:03):
trying to build something thatactually matters, I think that's
really where the change happens.
So, what keeps you consistentand keep you motivated for for
your mind, you know, when yourmindset?
What what's some of the thingsthat sleep?
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
Yes, I struggle with sleep coming out of college.
Uh, you know, if I go to thedoctor, they'll probably
diagnose me with insomnia.
Um so I I something I I work onconstantly.
I'm actually going to see asleep uh doctor on the 13th.
Because right now I'm takingsleep medications and that's
(05:39):
fine, but I don't want to dothat for like until I'm 50,
because we all know that thesemedications, they they uh
there's gonna be some sideeffects.
There's gonna be some sideeffects.
So right now I'm notexperiencing anything.
You know, I'm 37, I'm notexperiencing anything, but
that's not to say that 10-15years down the line I won't
experience something, you know,whatever it may be.
I I don't I don't know.
(06:00):
I I could do a whole bunch ofresearch, but then I would take
time, I would take time awayfrom my stuff I'm doing.
SPEAKER_02 (06:06):
So yeah, there's sorry about that.
Yeah, there's a lot of truckersthat are taking in medication.
You know, there's sleep apnea,is huge, insomnia is huge.
So a lot of truckers out therecan relate to that, even if
you're not pushing the big rig.
So if you had to explain yourwork ethic to a room full of
(06:26):
truckers, how would you describeit?
SPEAKER_00 (06:29):
Insane.
Insane.
Now I haven't gone, I haven'tgone like three days without
sleep, but the most I'veprobably done is probably two or
or at least in a in a in athree-day span, probably I
probably got about 12 hours, youknow, and that's not to say that
(06:52):
oh you stay awake because youyou could stay awake, but you
could be unproductive, you know.
So that doesn't mean anything.
I'm just saying, like it, I Iattribute like to me, I I have
there's a couple things you do.
You could either do focus workor you could do like kind of
semi-work and kind of spread itout uh over intervals or
(07:12):
whatever.
This kind of depends on what youwant to do.
I I I kind of do a little bit ofboth.
It depends on you know, I justkind of depend on how I'm
feeling.
If I if I want to spend an houror two doing focus work, no
distractions, then I'll do that.
Or if I want to kind of likehave my phone on music or
whatever, and then vibe outwhile I'm doing work, then I'll
do that.
So, and I gotta say, shout outto my uncle Eugene Johnson.
(07:35):
Uh, he really he really helpedme develop my work ethic.
He's a pastor in Madison,Wisconsin, the Madison
Pentecostal assembly, and youknow, he let me stay with him
for you know like six months,six to eight months, and I
really got to see his workethic, in terms of his church.
You know, obviously he had otherstuff going on.
He worked for, he actuallyworked for the state of
(07:57):
Wisconsin.
So I got to see that.
Well, he retired by the time Istayed with him, but in terms of
just like reading, being avoracious reader, um, which I
think is important becausethat's a part of learning.
If we don't read, we can'tincrease our knowledge on
things, whether it's an articleonline or whether it's a book,
whether it's or whether youconsume it through Audible, you
(08:18):
know, just keep gettinginformation.
So that's a part of the workethic.
Being a constant learner, youknow, a lot of kids nowadays
they think, Oh, okay, I went toschool, got my 40 degree, now
I'm chilling.
Well, in the IT world, you'regonna become obsolete because
the IT world moves, it moves, itmoves, moves, and moves.
So if you're not constantlylearning, you're gonna be
(08:39):
behind, and you're gonna you'renot probably won't have a job.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
So you don't want, yeah.
So as a visionary shaping theminds of the new individuals
coming in.
I mean, you're talking a lotabout that, the tech, the
culture, your purpose andconviction.
How do you personally define thegreat mind?
Because that was also one of thereasons why you did your
podcast.
Yeah, how would you describethat?
SPEAKER_00 (09:02):
Man, man, that was and when I read that question
you sent me, I was I was like,man, that's that's tough, man.
Because, like, that's to me,that's a subjective question.
Because, like, everybody hastheir own definition.
So, to answer itintrospectively, to me, I define
a great mind.
You gotta have a high IQ.
Like, that's just that's justthat goes along with it.
(09:22):
You gotta have a high IQ.
Now, you can have that, doesn'tmean you have to high IQ in
engineering or whatever.
You could have a high IQ in indesign, you can have a high IQ
in painting, you know.
How do you find that out?
Good question.
Me Carson, yeah, uh discipline,but also too, like if you get a
(09:46):
lot of people saying, Hey, yourwork is good, you need to put
this out there to the world, Iwill say that's outward
validation, and you can you cango off that.
SPEAKER_02 (09:56):
Yeah, I got a friend of mine that does really well
with numbers and learning aboutthe stock market and investments
and things like that.
I think now he wants to learnmore about options.
So, yeah, I mean, there'sthere's a lot out there that you
can dabble in and see, hey, isthat something I'm gonna do?
SPEAKER_00 (10:12):
No, no, no, now your friend is he is that a hobby or
does he really want to?
That's the thing.
People have interest, but totake it to that next level, you
can you could tell them, hey,you should do this, but they
won't really take it seriouslyuntil it flips.
SPEAKER_02 (10:29):
Yeah, it's a hobby.
SPEAKER_00 (10:31):
Okay, okay.
Well then that's and that that'salso good too, because that
hobby could become somethingserious.
He just like you said, it justif he sticks with it.
And he doesn't have to, if hehas a family, he doesn't have to
put in 20 hours a day or 20hours a week, just consistency.
Like, you know, there's a bookthat I didn't finish called
(10:54):
Atomic Habits.
One thing that stuck out to meis it was talking about just
being consistent.
And so, say, for example, youyou you want to lose weight or
build muscle, and you're tiredfrom work or you're tired from
having a family life orwhatever, go to the gym, five
minutes.
(11:14):
Five minutes.
I like the body bag.
Do the body bag, do the do thebody bag, five minutes, get that
out, boom.
Next day, you got 15 moreminutes, boom, do 15 more
minutes, boom.
Next day, you got 30 minutes,boom, do 30 minutes, boom.
That's consistency.
So, why didn't you finish thebook?
(11:39):
I saw it on Instagram, that'swhy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:41):
Uh, because I there's a lot of books I don't
finish.
I'll start out and I love theintro, and then I get lost in
the body.
SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
Um, yeah, so my friend told me a little tippy,
my friend told me that may beboredom, and you gotta push
through that.
You gotta push through.
All right, I gotta push throughthat myself.
I got and all these books Igotta finish.
SPEAKER_02 (12:05):
Yeah, that's how we met at the Barnes and Noble.
Yeah, it's doing it, man.
People buying books left andright, bookstores are doing
well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
We just we just gotta keep grinding because
there's a lot of pages, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (12:17):
There's a lot to learn in a short period of time.
Life goes by so fast, yeah.
You know, so yeah, I mean, thinkabout that.
It's for a lot of people outthere that want to learn
something, they get starteddoing something right out of
high school, and then they say,you know what?
Man, I I wish I knew what I knownow because I would do something
different.
Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot oftruck drivers out there, they
got a lot of time on theirhands, and they can listen to
(12:40):
audible books and they can learnthings.
So maybe there's a second wavethat uh second thing that
they're gonna be able to do.
SPEAKER_00 (12:46):
So you know, I can I make a prediction for the
truckers?
Yeah, I believe so withtrucking, I don't know much
about the business, but I knowfrom what we talked about, and
uh so with uh automation and allthat, obviously we have we have
we have uh self-driving truckdrivers, and then there's safety
regulations and all that.
So are you guys experiencing thethe layoffs right now?
(13:11):
Because it's it's gonnaeverybody every sector is gonna
experience layoffs, but thenthere's gonna spirit there we're
gonna come a time where we thosewho have upskilled are going to
and who who are who have adaptedto the change are gonna be able
to pivot into the sector.
Has that happened or what what'sgoing on?
SPEAKER_02 (13:32):
Yeah, we definitely can see it.
There's a lot of automation ifit's not just in the truck
factor, it's in the buildingthat gives us the goods.
So, like self-driving forklifts.
Saw a video about that the otherday where they're got a bunch of
forklifts, and so some CDLholders have a experience
driving forklift.
Okay, and so they load thetrucks and things they may not
(13:54):
drive, but they work in thewarehouse, so maybe they gotta
revisit going back into thetruck.
There's a lot of things that,like you said, you gotta expand
your mind and make it stretch tosee what the possibilities of
what you'll be able to do.
Because, like you said, maybeyour company is one that's gonna
be investing in some newchanges, and you're just like,
(14:15):
What do I do?
You know, do I just you knowjust get upset?
Well, you don't get a lot donewhen you're upset.
So a lot of people out thereworked hard to get to where
they're at to be a truck driver,exactly.
And then now you got thiscoming, you're like, what's
going on?
SPEAKER_00 (14:32):
Exactly, exactly.
You know, it's like I spent fouryears in college just to have my
job automated, you know what I'msaying?
So, but this is a part of life,man.
You know, yeah.
What's your take on that?
How do you feel about that?
That's another thing youmentioned, you mentioned like
what gets me going.
These changes that get me going.
I like challenges, you know.
I like to challenge myself.
(14:53):
You know, I took computerscience courses at UT Martin and
I failed uh, I couldn't tell youhow many I failed, but I
eventually I had to pivotbecause I had to get out with a
degree, and so I just that thattaught me not at a certain
point, you can only take so manyhits, and so you gotta say,
(15:14):
okay, I gotta pivot.
So that's what I pivoted.
But what it told me is I do likechallenges, and I don't think
that's a bad thing.
I don't think taking onchallenges is a bad thing, but
you you do have to learn how topivot.
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
So mindset, adversity, wealth.
I mean, we think about this uh agreat month to think about black
history and where we come fromand where we're going.
So I watched a couple of yourepisodes that stood out where
you let people, you know,behind, you know, you don't let
them hide behind clean answers,you know.
(15:47):
Um you saw that.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (15:51):
I like the real man.
Don't don't sugarcoat me.
SPEAKER_02 (15:55):
Nice, don't sugarcoat you.
Yeah.
So what do you say uh fortruckers who deal with a lot of
adversities daily?
You know, they got the weather,you got breakdown, there's time
you're away from home.
A lot of folks, and they make adecent amount of money, but they
also feel like they're beingleft behind because they're
constantly just stuck in thattruck.
What's one of the biggestmisconceptions people have about
wealth?
(16:15):
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (16:43):
Oh, man, I was hoping you asked me about the
truckers, but you you pivoted towealth.
SPEAKER_02 (16:47):
Okay, so yeah, mix them together.
I mean, they're building wealthfor themselves.
Maybe they're maybe they got apension, maybe they got a 401k.
SPEAKER_00 (16:53):
So to to to answer a little bit about because I
really wanted to touch on that.
I think having a support systemis important.
When we're in that foxhole byyourself, whether you have a
friend, whether you have a wife,a husband, children, whatever
you got.
I think having I me personally,it's it's my my church.
They're a great support systemsystem.
My uncle, my cousins, I have agood support system around me.
(17:16):
I think that's important.
Um, so that was kind of likethat answer pivoted to the
wealth part.
So people get wrong about wealthis I think a lot of people think
it's easy.
I think a lot of people thinklike, you know, even for even
for uh gifted people, they thinkit's easy.
(17:37):
Well, you got a high IQ or yougot connections or daddy's
paying your tuition.
All of these could be true, ornone of them could be true.
You know, I think at the end ofthe day, is like Kobe, like
Jordan, like like Tiger Woods,nobody escapes hard work.
(17:58):
Nobody, yeah.
So I don't care how gifted youare, you're not gonna escape the
hard work.
SPEAKER_02 (18:04):
So yeah, that's uh a lot of companies they just want
people to show up.
You know, it's it's crazy howthat is a huge requirement that
if we just hope that you show upon time and put in the hard
work, that dedication, that youthat sets you above the rest
right there.
And they can work with the rest,they can try to train you and
help you learn new things, andyou can continue to build that
(18:25):
wealth for yourself.
When I think of wealth, I thinkof you know, maybe you get some
real estate.
But first of all, I thinkinvesting.
I think a lot of people get itbackwards, they think real
estate, they think of business,but just learning to invest in
something that's tangible, likethe stock market or 401k for
yourself.
Uh, that goes a long way.
(18:46):
I think that's the starter.
I am that's the boring one.
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Yeah, I I have a I have an acorns account, so shout
out to acorns that do automaticinvesting.
You know, I I've kind of fallenoff because I I had other
expenditures, but man, 2020,like we just talked about atomic
habits,$20 here,$30, it goes along way, trust me.
Yeah, it does.
Compound interest.
SPEAKER_02 (19:11):
Yeah, the compound interest doesn't work until you
have something in there.
Yeah, it can't compound itself.
So yeah, I think if you can getto a hundred thousand dollars,
then you really start makingsome traction.
But before that, it feels likeyou're not doing a whole lot,
yeah.
But but yeah, keep trying, keepdon't give up, move on to the
next thing, stay positive, yeah,for sure.
(19:34):
Uh, is that what works for youand the mindset there for
yourself, also personally?
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I'm probably I gotta be honestwith you man, I'm probably one
of the most positive peopleyou're ever gonna meet in your
life.
I say that with confidence.
So, you know, uh I don't knowwhere I got it from, but just
having a positive mindset.
Now, that's not to say I don'thave days where I'm like, you
know, well, I may want to cusssomebody out.
(19:58):
You know, it it it comes andgoes.
Yeah.
So I think also too, this wholethis whole wave about emotional
intelligence.
I don't really consider it awave.
I think that's the thing.
I think emotional intelligenceis big.
I read this, I read another bookI didn't finish.
Is is emotional intelligencebetter than having a high IQ?
(20:21):
I think it is.
Because if you don't if youdon't know how to manage your
emotions, you're gonna be adetriment to your family, you're
gonna be a detriment to yourcoworkers, you're gonna be a
detriment to your roommates,you're gonna be a detriment to
your church community, you'rejust gonna be a detriment.
And so you we gotta learn how tomanage our emotions, yeah.
(20:42):
Cause uh you can be easy easilymanipulated, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:45):
Yeah, so people like to exploit people, they like to
prey on your emotions and getyou worked up about certain
topics.
They may be important, it may besomething valid, but how much do
you want to let it control you?
Thank you, thank you.
Control your controllables iswhat I heard.
SPEAKER_00 (21:04):
Control your controllables.
I gotta write that down reallyquick.
Control your controllables,okay.
SPEAKER_02 (21:11):
Yeah, because some things are just out of our
control.
So what was another one we wantto talk about?
Is if you had a place to buildone simple piece of tech to make
a driver's life easy.
I wanted to throw you a randomone like that.
Okay, what would you do?
What would you do to makedriver's life easy?
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Maybe it's some tech that you yeah, I would I would
say so.
I just I just took a lift todayto Menards and the streets were
kind of crazy.
I think you guys deal with thata lot.
I think because there's budgetswith cities and all that other
stuff, and so I think you guysdeal with that a lot.
(21:51):
So I would I would create sometech that would say, hey, we got
a pothole coming up, we got wegot you know, we got this coming
up, we got we got somethingcoming up to to so you guys can
pivot.
SPEAKER_02 (22:02):
Man, like yeah, a little heads up.
SPEAKER_00 (22:05):
Yeah, yeah.
So that that's what I would do.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Especially sinkholes, huh?
Sinkholes.
SPEAKER_00 (22:11):
A tight curve, tight curve, you know.
And I already know Google'sprobably already working on
that.
They they they have a little bitof that, but you know, it could
always be better.
SPEAKER_02 (22:20):
That sounds terrible.
But A lot of piles, especiallyin the winter time up here, man.
Those snow plows they reallymake them.
So, how would you innovatewithout losing the human or
safety side of work?
You know, sometimes peopleforget about the human factor or
the safety side of it, that itcould be a little bit dangerous.
(22:43):
Yeah.
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (22:47):
Working with humans is an intrinsic part of my
personality.
Like, you know, I know we gotAI, but I really value the
ingenuity of humans.
AI can do a lot of stuff, butthere's nothing like a human
touch to a product.
You know, I I followed SteveJobs a lot when he came up, you
(23:10):
know, ostensibly in his career.
And even though he was an a-holeat times, from what I've heard,
he knew how to make a goodproduct.
You know, he spent some time inIndia, you know, on drugs or
whatever.
And, you know, some say thatcould help him, helped him, you
know, think creatively, but youknow that's funny.
(23:31):
I'm just talking about I likeit.
Keep going.
But you know, I think that'sjust a part of who I am because
you know, so that's not going tobe for everybody.
Some people would be like, well,I can I can have AI do 20
people's jobs.
Okay, go do it.
You know, me personally, I I maytake I may want to work with
(23:53):
five people, maybe build anautomated system, and then want
to work with two offshorepeople.
So now, in terms of safety, whenwe built that product,
everybody's gonna have their ownmindset.
So everybody's gonna have theirown thought process.
So it's as a as um as a leader,you know, a CTO or a CEO,
(24:17):
whatever, it's up to me to say,hey, this is not a safe product.
Because you're gonna if you ifyou build something fast, you're
sacrificing safety.
And you're sacrificing a goodmaking a good product.
But if you take too long, thenyou may miss, you may miss
deadlines.
SPEAKER_02 (24:37):
So yeah, you gotta be careful.
So that goes into the nextsegment: purpose, discipline,
and legacy.
The great mind, you know, youdid a lot of great work about
the next great mind.
For a lot of drivers out there,they're struggling with
isolation, burnout.
Purpose is what keeps peoplesteady when the road gets long.
Uh, what's the cost of livingwithout purpose?
(25:00):
What would you say?
SPEAKER_00 (25:02):
It's everything.
It is everything.
Because if you don't havepurpose, you don't have anything
to keep you going.
And we I think we touched onthat.
If you have kids, that's gonnakeep you going.
If you have a wife, a husband,that's gonna keep you going.
If you have the work, if youjust if you just want to be a
workaholic, that's gonna keepyou going.
(25:25):
Because you're like, man, I loveworking.
So I'm gonna keep doing it.
I think a lot of the greats, youknow, competitively, they were
constantly work workaholics.
But some of them, some of them,like Kobe, Kobe, for example, I
think he was a family man, whichwhich is great.
I really valued that.
(25:45):
You know, did he do everythingperfectly?
No.
But I think he understood thevalue of family.
So, you know, and that'ssomething that I hope to make
sure I keep in the forefront ofmy mind.
I look at my uncle, as Imentioned before, he's been with
one woman for for I mean, priorto getting married.
(26:06):
I mean, yeah, well, well, youknow, as he got married, he's
been with one woman since he gotmarried.
And so me seeing that, eventhough even if I wasn't like I
didn't see all the fights or allthe all the all the conflict
resolutions, I got I they'remarried, you know, they have
kids, they have a successfulchurch, so that tells me that
(26:30):
can be done.
So commitment, commitment that'spretty rare nowadays.
That's very rare, very rare,especially for my generation.
And it's only and it's onlygoing down.
It's only going down.
What's that like for you?
SPEAKER_02 (26:44):
It's scary, it's it's scary, but we just gotta
stay positive, stay positive,you go, yes, stay positive, and
do things to fight back, likespeak out about it, like you're
doing right now, so that otherpeople know that they're not
alone.
And so, how do you personallydefine discipline?
(27:05):
Is it freedom or a restriction?
SPEAKER_00 (27:13):
Both you have the freedom to restrict yourself.
So you have the freedom to say,hey, I'm not gonna eat a box of
chocolates every single day.
You know, and and I I probablysay that because I last year I
was like three, oh not three, Iwas like 275.
(27:33):
I'm down to today, I weighmyself in like 227.
So I'm you know, that's happyabout my progress.
SPEAKER_02 (27:41):
That's that's huge.
SPEAKER_00 (27:42):
Yeah, yeah.
If we're not able to stayhealthy, we're gonna clock out.
So with that goes along withtruck driving, because we're
we're you're sweating, you'resitting, you're sitting for
hours and hours on end, right?
You know, it's just like it.
We're sitting on hours and hourson end.
So we gotta watch our what we'reputting in our bodies, you know.
(28:03):
Like right now, I'm drinkingwater, you know, drink a lot of
water, try to cut down onsweets, try to cut down on a lot
of processed foods and whatnot.
(28:37):
So pivoting back to yourquestion, is it freedom or
restriction?
I think it's a little bit ofboth because it's your freedom
to restrict yourself or notrestrict yourself.
SPEAKER_02 (28:48):
There you go.
So, another question I wanted toget your opinion on is what does
a legacy actually mean when yougo beyond money and recognition?
SPEAKER_00 (29:01):
I think it's building something you're proud
of.
Whether it's company, whetherit's foundation, whether it's
family, saying, Hey, I'm proudof my two boys, they got on a
roll.
I'm proud of my daughter, she'sa kickboxing champion, you know.
(29:23):
Yeah, so whatever it is, thoseare things to be proud of.
I'm proud of my brother.
Like, I have a brother who'shandicapped.
I love him to death, you know.
Not able to talk to him as muchas I want to, but I'm proud that
he's still here with me, youknow.
He he's had his own troubles,and so I'm proud that he's still
(29:45):
here with me.
He's always on my mind.
So, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (29:49):
Yeah, that's what's up.
I got a brother as well.
He's older than me.
I'm the youngest, and it's niceto know that I have someone else
here in the world thatunderstands me.
So, yeah, I mean that's that'shuge.
Family is great, may go throughhard times together, but in the
end, you know, you you only getone.
You know, the ones you you don'treally choose them either.
(30:09):
So you were the fighter.
Have you have you and yourbrother fought before?
Uh, we didn't do too muchactually.
We did pretty good.
Okay, okay.
That's nice.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (30:20):
Me and my brother had a couple fights.
We had a couple fights, but uhhe's he's hella.
He's not he's in he's older now,but back in the day, man, that
dude has some grown man strengthat like 20 21 years old, man.
God dog.
SPEAKER_02 (30:35):
Wow, yeah, that's good.
You know, people help you findyour boundaries, help you
understand where the respectneeds to be, like said for
safety and stuff.
Well, yeah, strength, you know,you can hurt somebody.
So, what belief do you have tounlearn to grow?
(30:55):
What do what belief did you holdon to?
And you say, you know what, Igotta let that go.
SPEAKER_00 (31:04):
I don't know.
I'm I don't think I'm there yet.
Like with this company, Istarted doing everything, and
and I now have a a businesspartner, an employee named uh
Marquise uh Young, who's also apastor.
So he he's a CFO.
(31:25):
I mean, so I had to let that go.
Now I'm probably gonna be CTOfor a little while, but there's
gonna come a time where I'mgonna have to be like, okay, I
gotta let this go.
So I think it comes withdiscernment, it comes with
practicality.
Yeah, discernment andpracticality definitely for me,
(31:48):
and no, nobody can tell you whento let go except yourself,
really.
SPEAKER_02 (31:53):
You know, yeah, nobody can tell you.
So is that Zach Gideon SystemsIncorporated?
It is, it is, it is all right.
Yeah, so look those guys up andcheck them out, see what's going
on there.
So, for someone who's listeningwho feels invisible and not
seen, or you know, but they showup every day.
I'm sure you know, as a companyowner, you're trying to see
(32:14):
individuals and look at theirqualities.
What would you want them to hearright now?
SPEAKER_00 (32:20):
You know, you said you say look at the qualities.
Are you talking about just as aperson or or for hiring?
SPEAKER_02 (32:26):
Yeah, all above.
Yeah, it's just you know, to gounseen.
Maybe it's something thatthey've been trying to reach out
towards and they're trying toget it done, but uh there's
meant what I think.
SPEAKER_00 (32:37):
I think the first thing, so there's two parts to
that question.
There's uh what they're doing interms of how to get hired.
I think they gotta look at whythey're doing what they're
doing.
Are they doing it just for themoney, or are they doing it
because they really love it, orare they doing it because
someone told them to, or arethey doing it because they saw a
(32:59):
commercial on an algorithm?
Yeah, there's there's a lot, andand then the other thing is to
get hired, you just gotta makeyourself valuable, really.
That's what I'm doing right now.
You know, I had to scale backwith some things.
I had like I just mentioned Ihad to scale back on the podcast
(33:19):
to focus on some things, butworking on my resume.
Yeah, even even as a CTO, I'mworking on my resume.
I'm working on the company, thecompany's resume.
So, what does that mean?
That means the brand.
I'm working on the companybrand.
I I I want my company to be abrand that says we're about
(33:42):
community.
Yeah, we we don't so I got alittle emotional because I've
I've seen this in my career.
We don't discard people, youknow?
Yeah, right.
Some people, yeah, it's rough.
(34:04):
I'm gonna move on.
I'm gonna get emotional.
We're gonna move on.
Yeah, I know.
That's a tough subject.
That's a tough subject for me.
Okay, that's a tough subject.
SPEAKER_02 (34:15):
Yeah, I mean, you try your hardest, and then you
kind of met with a lot ofadversity, and people try to
say, hey, you know, you shouldbe doing it this way, and you're
trying to do it that way.
Or you're or you're not goodenough, right?
Or you're not good enough, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
Or you're worthless.
Yeah, yeah.
I've I've I've seen that.
I've I've seen people, a lot ofpeople discard people because
they think they have no economicvalue, and that hurts the
community.
SPEAKER_02 (34:44):
Nicely said, Yeah, I like that.
You said it nice and simple forpeople to get, and instead of,
like you said, takes the emotionout of it, you hit it right nail
on the head there, man.
You don't nobody should feelthat way.
Yeah, so we all have somethingwe can contribute.
And with a lot of the changeswith technology and everything,
(35:07):
they're great and exciting, butwe want to be careful we're not
uh discarding people and justcreating voids for people to
feel worthless.
So if we can add that value, Ithink it's a win.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
So I I like you, I like your Ray.
I like you.
SPEAKER_02 (35:24):
Thank you.
Yeah, man, that's all what it'sall about.
Is we can find that commonground with everyone.
Uh, we may see thingsdifferently, but uh, if we can
come together for something,then uh we're gonna be able to
deliver something great.
And uh that's why I started thispodcast is to get that out there
for a lot of people to see.
Yeah, a lot of people to hearthat and their ear that hey,
this is you're not alone outhere.
No matter what you're doing,even if you're not driving the
(35:46):
truck, you're contributing insome way.
So appreciate that, man.
SPEAKER_00 (35:49):
Now I and I appreciate you doing this in
Minneapolis, man.
Right now, you know, we we'vehad a we're we we've had a lot
of trouble with Trump and ICEand this, that, and the other.
But people like you, man, thatare doing it and putting the
city on, like like you have alot of episodes out, man.
I I didn't look at subscribers,I didn't look at any of that.
(36:10):
I just said this dude's puttingin work.
I want to be a part of that.
Can I be a part of that?
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
Trying to get me now, huh?
You are a part of it.
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
And yeah, no matter what side ofthe aisle you're on or what you
believe, if we come together andfind something that we can we
can agree on, I think we'll goto a better place.
Like you said, the city has beenthrough a lot.
SPEAKER_01 (36:34):
So yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:36):
But that's something we can agree on.
Yeah, I think it no matter whereyou're you're from or what you
do, that's you you could justturn on TV and yeah, Minnesota's
popping up.
So, where can they find you?
Where do we want people to lookfor you if they want to learn
more about what the great thingsyou're doing?
And give me so.
SPEAKER_00 (36:53):
Right now, my website is down.
I'll get that back up when I getthat back up.
But uh, you can go to uhgideonsis.ai.
So that'll be back up soon.
You can find me.
You you can look me up onUniversity of Wisconsin.
On LinkedIn, on LinkedIn.
I'm on LinkedIn.
(37:13):
So Zachariah CopelandZ-E-C-H-A-R-I-A-H-C-O-P-E-L-A-N-D.
Look me up.
I'm the one with I forgot, Iforgot.
I changed my picture.
I may be doing this.
There you go.
Gotta have time.
Something important.
I was saying somethingimportant.
So, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (37:35):
I like that platform.
I think it's a good platform forprofessionals to come together,
yeah, and see each other'sstrengths.
So exactly.
All right, well, uh, to end itup with you know, this episode,
I think it's a great episode.
We get this put out for peopleto listen to.
Uh, big thanks to you,Zachariah.
And appreciate you guys doingall that hard work over there
yourself, too, for the city.
You're putting on a lot of greatwork.
(37:56):
So putting in that that hardwork that you need that you
mentioned.
You know, you can't can'tsubstitute it.
Can't substitute it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:03):
No, you can't.
SPEAKER_02 (38:03):
No, you can't.
All right.
So appreciate your ready, man.
SPEAKER_00 (38:07):
And whatever you're doing, keep going.
SPEAKER_02 (38:09):
Thank you.
All right, appreciate it.
If anyone at home likes whatthey see, like what they hear,
please give a shout out to us,bring uh support, subscribe in
any way you can, or leave areview.
If you have a question you wantus to bring on the show, be sure
to do so.
We'd love to hear from you.
And if you're thinking of uhanything long term, a big shout
out to Zach Gideon Systems.
Uh, reach out to those guys,give the support that they need.
(38:31):
I'm glad they have them on theshow.
And for me to Truck and Ray,thanks for listening, and that's
delivered.
SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
God bless y'all.
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