#088 Defining Your Leadership Philosophy: Insights from Naval Academy Graduate Eric Dyson

Send us a text

In this episode of the Academy Insider podcast, we dive deep into the art of developing a robust leadership philosophy with Eric Dyson, a 1983 graduate of the United States Naval Academy.

Eric shares invaluable insights from his time as a midshipman, his career as a Naval officer, and his experiences in the civilian world. He breaks down his seven-step leadership philosophy, offering practical advice for aspiring leaders at every stage of their journey.

Key Takeaways:

• The importance of defining and refining your purpose
• Strategies for identifying and nurturing talent within your team
• How to set and maintain a standard of excellence
• The power of recognition and positive reinforcement
• Ways to inspire and motivate those under your command

Highlights from the Discussion:

• Eric's journey from a curious teenager to a submarine officer
• The evolution of leadership philosophy from midshipman to civilian life
• Real-world examples of effective leadership in high-pressure situations
• The critical role of training and providing the right tools for success
• How to balance discipline with encouragement in leadership

Whether you're a current midshipman, a junior officer, or simply interested in honing your leadership skills, this episode offers a wealth of knowledge and practical advice. Eric's candid stories and hard-earned wisdom provide a roadmap for developing a leadership style that's both effective and authentic.

Eric leaves us with a compelling case for considering a service academy education, emphasizing the unparalleled leadership training and personal growth opportunities it provides. He encourages listeners to reach out and connect with academy graduates to learn more about this unique and rewarding path.

Join us for an engaging conversation that will challenge you to reflect on your own le

The Vermeer Group is a residential real company matching military families with trusted real estate teams across the country.  If you have any real estate questions at all, please text Grant at [phone] or email [e-mail]

To stay most up to date with Grant, Naval Academy updates, and real estate insights, follow him on LinkedIn

The mission of Academy Insider is to guide, serve, and support Midshipmen, future Midshipmen, and their families.

Grant Vermeer your host is the person who started it all. He is the founder of Academy Insider and the host of The Academy Insider podcast. He was a recruited athlete which brought him to Annapolis where he was a four year member of the varsity basketball team. He was a cyber operations major and commissioned into the Cryptologic Warfare Community. He was stationed at Fort Meade and supported the Subsurface Direct Support mission.

He separated from the Navy in 2023 and now owns The Vermeer Group, a residential real estate company that matches service academy families with trusted real estate teams all across the country. Text [phone] with any real estate questions.

We are here to be your guide through the USNA experience.

Connect with Grant on Linkedin
Academy Insider Website
Academy Insider Facebook Page

If you are interested in sponsoring the podcast, have an idea, question or topic you would like to see covered, reach out: email [e-mail] or text Grant at [phone]

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Season 2 of the Academy Insider Podcast.
Academy Insider is a 501c3nonprofit organization that
serves midshipmen, futuremidshipmen and their families.
At its core, this podcast isdesigned to bring together a
community of Naval Academygraduates and those affiliated
with the United States NavalAcademy in order to tell stories
and provide a little bit ofinsight into what life at the

(00:22):
Naval Academy is really like.
I hope you enjoy it.
Thank you so much for listeningand reach out if you ever have
any questions.
Hey everyone, and welcome backto the Academy Insider Podcast.
In today's episode, we're goingto be talking about leadership
and leadership philosophy andleadership development, and so
I'm joined by Eric Dyson, who'sa class of 83 graduate of the
Naval Academy.
He has developed over time andbuilt and then refined his

(00:44):
leadership philosophy over hisyears as a naval officer and in
the civilian world as well.
So we're just going to have adiscussion about how it relates
to the life of a midshipman, howit relates to the life of a
junior officer when it comes toleadership and building your
leadership philosophy and whatit means and how to uniquely own
it yourself, and so it's a fundiscussion.
We're going to talk and share alot of sea stories about his
time in the Navy and leadershiplessons he's learned, how it's

(01:06):
developed over time and how he'sestablished and built where
he's at today when it comes toleadership, again, these
discussions are meant to justprovide you information, to
provide a baseline, to provideperspectives so you can continue
to build, mold and refine yourleadership philosophy that works
for you.
There's not a one size fits all.

(01:30):
This is a very unique to yousituation, but hearing different
perspectives can always help asyou mold and find what works
for you.
So I hope you really enjoy thisdiscussion.
If you ever have any questionsabout anything Naval Academy
related, please reach out to me.
Otherwise, I hope you enjoyedthe listen.
Have a great day.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
The Academy Insider Podcast issponsored by the Vermeer Group,

(01:54):
a residential real estatecompany that serves the United
States Naval Academy communityand other select clientele in
both California and Texas.
If I can ever answer a realestate related question for you
or connect you with a trustedAcademy affiliated agent in the
market which you're in, pleasereach out to me directly at
grant at the premier groupcom.
You can also reach out to me onmy LinkedIn page grant from
here and I'd be happy to respondto you there.
Thank you so much, and nowlet's get back to the episode.

(02:16):
All right, hey everyone, andwelcome back to the Academy
insider podcast, eric.
Thank you so much for takingthe time to join us today.
For anyone in the AcademyInsider audience who may not
know you, do you mind justgiving a little bit of a
background and context aboutyourself?
Where are you from, how youended up at the Naval Academy, a
little bit about your career inthe Navy and now currently what
you're doing in today's day andage.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
Sure Grant, it is an honor and a privilege to be here
and really hope whoever thelistening audience is, I can add
one or two tidbits for you.
So that background is I grew upin a day and age where we
actually had an encyclopedia setin our house.
Okay, and I know I'm datingmyself, but for some reason I
gravitated towards the volumesthat had the Army, air Force,

(03:00):
marine Corps and the Navy in it,right and literally.
As a teenager I was fascinatedby this and I'm just going to
tell it as plain as it is.
I thought the idea of being ona big aircraft carrier was a lot
safer, in a way to serve mycountry than being a soldier or
a Marine.
And so that's what kind of ledme to the Naval Academy 1983
graduate.
So also dating myself.

(03:21):
Y'all can see the gray hairhere.
And then the thing to add on tothat I joke, but really not
joke about this hey, theaircraft carrier option seems
safe.
When we went and decidedservice selection, I decided,
hey, submarines, one of theirmost important jobs is to just
hide and be silent and remainundetected.
I also thought there was agreat option for chickens, all

(03:43):
right.
So that's what got me tosubmarine force and hopefully
that there was a great optionfor chickens, all right.
So that's what got thesubmarine for us and hopefully
that's enough of a backgroundfor you.

Speaker 1 (03:49):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
You can say chickens.
I say the mentally tough,because getting trapped in a
steel can underneath the oceanfor months at a time is not made
for the weak.
I will tell you that there'scertainly something to the
mental toughness that you needto survive submarine life,
because it's brutal, it can be.
Not for everybody Not foreveryone, but today's episode

(04:12):
for everyone listening is reallygoing to be based on a couple
of discussions, and I think thepremise of where we're going
today is all about the creationand refinement of your
leadership philosophy.
Because, again at the NavalAcademy, I think what's super
great about being in Annapolisis the density of incredible
leaders and wisdom that's on theyard.
You're going to be able to talkto senior enlisted leaders.

(04:33):
You're going to be able to talkto company officers, who are
usually in that 03 to 04 range,but then there's going to be
senior staff, there's going tobe battalion officers there's a
common out there and instructorsacross the yard.
You're going to have theability to talk to O5s, o6s and
potentially flag officers duringyour time as a midshipman, and
you're going to see such avariety of leadership in the way

(04:54):
to lead.
And so I think this is a reallycool aspect, because when
you're exposed to so manyincredible ways and different,
again, philosophies that peoplehave embraced, it's important to
create and refine your specificleadership philosophy that
works for you right, and so,because of that, I do want to,
you know, turn this over to you,because this is what you do,

(05:15):
this is what you talk about isyour leadership philosophy, and
I'm going to kind of outlinesome of the things that you have
published and then we're goingto dive and talk about them.
But you talk about this need todefine and constantly refine
your purpose which I think is areally important discussion here
is finding the right people,training them right, giving them

(05:36):
the tools they need to do theirjob, setting a standard for
excellence, patting them on theback enough often enough, and
then being an inspiration.
These seven steps.
And so for you, eric, you goback to your time as a
midshipman.
Where did this start for you?
That is your leadershipphilosophy, those seven steps.
But where did it start for you?

(05:57):
What things were most importantfor you then, kind of when you
were as a midshipman, and thenhow has it developed over time?

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Well, I think that it developed over time that one
day, actually after I left theNavy, I put this all together.
But it's a great question,grant, where does this start?
And just a reminder for all thelistening audience, especially
the parents and those who wantto be midshipmen.
So your second year at theNaval Academy we call being a
youngster and I'm assuming it'sthe same, but my time you were
assigned one plebe, one fourthclass, one freshman who you were

(06:28):
leading, you were mentoring,and traditionally that role as a
youngster, as a sophomore, youweren't the hard-hitting jerk,
right?
You weren't the one to pressurethem, you needed to mentor them
and I had the very first one Iwas given.
This young man was strugglingwith his grades, with whether he
wanted to be there, right, andI really figured out that it was

(06:52):
in my power to either beat thiskid down and drive him out or
lift him up.
And somehow something within medecided hey, we're not here to
kick people out, we're here todevelop leaders.
And just, you know, he didgreat and one of the greatest
things he did was he became abrigade boxer, and I said that

(07:13):
when he came to me and told methat, I thought well, you know
you're going to learn to take apunch in the face.
And that's probably what youneed to do to learn not just
that physically, but learn thatmentally.
And he was great, he reallyturned out great.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
Yeah, no, that's so cool and, to your point, that
still continues today.
They've kind of added, you know, more and more with a couple of
Marine Corps commandants,they've added some Marine Corps
terminology into the brigade,the midshipmen.
So normally kind of within thesquad you have a fire team
leader which is usually thatkind of like youngster or second
class, but usually youngster,and you have that direct

(07:49):
mentorship and much like you'resaying, still to this day it
very much is like, hey, I knowmy role as a youngster, having
just been a plebe, is more of aguidance, advice, mentorship
kind of, a little bit more ofthe care and uplifting knowing
that the second class and thefirsties are going to be, you
know, a little bit more hardhitting and structured and
emphasizing like things thatneed to get done.
So that tradition stillcontinues to today for anyone
who's listening.
Absolutely.

(08:10):
But we're going to jump straightinto your leadership philosophy
now, which is again the firstone is defining and constantly
refining your purpose.
In your opinion, why is it soimportant for these young men
and women to continue definingand refining their purpose?
And, in your opinion, why is itso important for these young
men and women to continuedefining and refining their
purpose and, in your opinion,where should they be searching
for the origin of their purpose?
Right, and what does purposemean to you?

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, and let's start out with, no matter what
service academy you go to whenyou graduate, from starting as
high as you can get.
Your purpose is to support anddefend the constitution of the
united states against allenemies sworn domestic, and you
can say, oh, okay, eric, that's,that's real touchy-feely.
That's good stuff here, but now, now let's boil it down to as a

(08:53):
junior officer, as a midshipman, wherever you're going, what
that means.
So the best example I've givena submarine force, probably
still true, but in my day therewere, there were officers who we
referred to them as super nukes.
They knew everything about thenuclear propulsion and they did.
Smartest people on the planet,okay, I'm not trying to pat
myself on the back, but Navynukes are the smartest people on

(09:14):
the planet, but they didn'tknow how to employ the weapon
system very well, right, and Ihad a Commodore once say to me
hey, we are not sendingnuclear-powered Rams to sea.
So my point is, yes, impeccablerecord of the Navy nuclear power
program of safety andself-monitoring.
I'm not trying to diminish theimportance of that at all, but

(09:36):
your purpose in life is to knowhow to put a weapon on target
when you're in the submarineforce.
Now there's other things thatcan come into with.
You know stealth and thingsthat submarines do, but if you
didn't know how to employ theweapon system at least when I
was chief engineer, you weregoing to have a hard time being
part of my crew.

(09:56):
So the question was how do youfind your purpose?
Now, maybe I need to take thatoutside the submarine force and
take a stab at this.
You know, if you're a pilot,outside the submarine force and
take a stab at this.
You know, if you're a pilot andagain I'm guessing here you've
got other duties of maintenanceand developing your people and
just things going on, and I'mnot saying those are unimportant
, but your number one job as anaval officer, as a Marine Corps

(10:17):
officer and let's take it tothe other academies is to be
able to support and defend theConstitution of the United
States, and to me that meant youbetter know how to put ordnance
on target if you were called todo so.

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Sure, absolutely.
And when it came to refining,then now, after you get out of
the service and you're in thecivilian world, how have you
refined it in today's day andage?
Because I think, again, a lotof these transition stories at
times is people who have placedtheir purpose.
The only thing they know whatto do is how to operate their
systems, their machines, theirequipment, and that's what's

(10:48):
driven them in life.
How was that transition for youinto being a civilian?
Where do you find your purposeat now in terms of making that
shift into the civilian world?

Speaker 2 (11:00):
Well, and I'll keep it job related because I do have
.
My personal mission is I'm notgoing to preach people a sermon,
but I've got a very strongfaith.
She didn't come here for asermon.
So in my career and I can justgive you a simple example, so
for the listening audience I doconsulting work in the 401k and
pension space with companiesRight and just with the

(11:21):
environment of risk managementand potential litigation and
things.
A lot of these companies rightand just, with the environment
of risk management and potentiallitigation and things.
A lot of these companies.
They are so focused on what Icall playing defense.
Hey, we don't want to get sued,we want to make sure
everything's in order, we wantto check all these boxes, but in
the end that benefit plan is tohelp your employees retire with

(11:42):
dignity, to save and have abenefit plan.
So that purpose is you'retaking my experience and say,
yes, we have to play defense andjust like my example of you
need to know the nuclear powerplant.
But if all you do is playdefense, you're not really going
on offense and helping theseemployees save and invest and do
what they want.
And so a lot of what I do iseducation.

(12:02):
I do a lot of speakingengagements, but my mission
statement basically at the endis to transform outcomes for
employees for the better.

Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yep, no, I love that.
I love the mission statementthere at the end, honestly too,
and kind of utilizing yourprofession to make a positive
impact.
And I couldn't agree more likewhat you were saying about the
overarching purpose.
Right, as someone in theprofession of arms, in the
military service, like you'rethere to support and defend the
constitution.
Right, like that has beenassigned and given to you.

(12:34):
But even within that right, youtalk about being a submarine
officer or being a pilot and youhave sailors, you have Marines
who are looking up to you andthat you know.
I think you're also going tofind purpose in your day-to-day
life there, like taking care ofthose individuals and helping
them out and making sure they'resucceeding and doing what they
need to do in life to advance,to promote, to be in a good spot

(12:54):
.
Right, there's going to be realleadership in these situations
when you get out to the fleet,which is so cool.
But it's also interestingbecause when we talk about this
is that when you get to a boator you go and you show up at
your squadron, whatever the caseis, a big aspect of military
leadership is that you're justassigned the people that are
there.
You have no choice over reallywhere you go, who's in your unit

(13:18):
, who's your boss and who areyour subordinates, which is
interesting because, again, partof your leadership philosophy
is finding the right people, andin the military you don't
really get much of a choice overthat right.
And so when we talk aboutfinding the right people as a JO
in the service or as amidshipman, how can you relate

(13:40):
this one to kind of their lifeand what would you encourage
them to think about in terms ofleadership when they don't have
much choice over kind of who isa part of their unit, especially
at a really junior level?

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, and that's that's a great question, and
I'll extend it to personal life.
When you're, when you're aleader in your family, right as
a parent or a, you don't get tochoose that either, so it
applies there.
Now, it's true, grant, what yousay you don't get much of a
choice, but you actually getmore of a choice than most
people are initially thinking.
Okay, and let's go back to yourtime at the Naval Academy.
You can look at your classmates, you can look at your friends,

(14:09):
grant, you other people, and youcan tell the people that were
there to make sure they studiedas best they can, and some
people struggled just to gettheir grades right, right, but
there were people there thatwere committed to excellence and
there were those that weretrying to get by and that's the
most they were going to put intoit, right?
So my point is how do you findthe right people?

(14:30):
When you're a midshipman at theNaval Academy, who you choose to
hang out with is a big big deal, okay, so were your friends
striving for excellence?
Or, and for me, I had the sameroommates for three and a half
years, and when I say three anda half years, when we became
firsties, we had differentbillets in different rooms, but
Ken and Ryan still stay in touchwith my roommates.
You know that's a bond thatwill last forever.

(14:52):
Well, now let's take it to whatyou're saying here.
Right?
1,083 classmates.
I could have chosen a lot ofdifferent friends.
But you're right, when you getto your first vote and you're
assigned a chief and you'reassigned a division, you don't
get to choose that.
But here's what you do get tochoose.
You get to choose who in yourdivision you can count on.

(15:15):
You can choose, when you're awatchstander, who you can count
on.
So if you're the electricaldivision officer on an aircraft,
carrier, surface ship, asubmarine, you know which petty
officers will get the job doneno matter what, and you know
which ones will come up withexcuses not to get the job done.

(15:36):
Your key as a leader is tofigure out how to use those ones
that aren't quite reliable.
Can you develop them?
Do you have to do what they can?
So I'll give you my specificexample.
I could go with a list of peoplethat I knew to rely on.
But as chief engineer and againan explanation for the listing

(15:57):
onnings the command master chiefis the senior enlisted
individual in the command on theship, whatever, and in the
submarine force we call him thechief of the boat Cobb.
Well, he wasn't in my chain ofcommand, I wasn't in his chain
of command, but boy, he was aresource for me.
He and I would have someone-on-one conversations in my

(16:17):
state room about where we weregoing, what the captain was
thinking, and we had a greatcaptain too.
Larry Davis, I'll give you ashout out by name, one of the
best commanding officers youwould ever serve under.
But so, so again, justreminding and I know I'm getting
a little long-winded here,Grant, but how do you find the
right people?
I would say to the commandmaster chief hey, I'm having a
problem with chief so-and-so,and he'd give me one or two

(16:40):
responses.
He'd say, sir, give me twoweeks, I'll fix the problem for
you.
He always did.
His other response would beI've had it with him.
Go to town, sir, you need to.
So the point is, I knew thecommand master chief was one
person that I could rely on andhe would give me feedback as a
leader.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
No, I love that.
I really appreciated thatdistinction that you kind of put
in there, right Is, you knowyou may not get to pick who is
assigned to you, but even withinthat division, right, there
usually is an LPO, a leadingpetty officer, there's these
kind of.
As you go down, there's stillmore leadership billets that can
be put in place and you have anability to kind of pick and

(17:20):
choose who is going to fill thatrole as the LPO, who is going
to be kind of the section leaderof a watch section.
Right, like you have an abilityto, like you're saying, count
on the people who you know andtrust to be able to take care
and lead your division or yourwatch section, kind of in the
day-to-day, in the intricate, inthe standing watch, et cetera.
Right, so there is still thatability to do so, even out in

(17:43):
the fleet, which is great.
And then I think a big piece ofwhat we have to do, too right,
is at least try and get theleast common denominator raised
up a little bit.
And so I think this fills rightinto what you're talking about,
about train them right, trainyour people right, like it's not
just, hey, yep, I have who Ihave and that's it and we're
going to be done.

(18:03):
But you have to train them andI think this is really where
there's a lot of control forespecially that JO and senior
enlisted leader combination anddynamic and partnership in kind
of training your division.
But why is this so important?
And why should men be thinkingabout training and
qualifications now for when theyget out into their division,

(18:24):
when they get out into the fleet?

Speaker 2 (18:26):
Yeah, let's first talk about qualification.
It's kind of a sidebar fromhere You're laughing because you
probably know where I'm goingand I've had let me tell you
what Grant.
I've had a couple of recentacademy grads that I was able to
connect with on social mediaand I gave them a little bit of
mentoring conversations and Iloved it.
They said they loved it, but Iloved it more than them.

(18:46):
And my point on qualificationsis until you're supporting the
watch bill, until midshipmen,when you get your commission,
commission, until you aresupporting the watch bill, you
are nothing but a load on theoxygen system and the food
system on the ship.
So it's important that you geton the watch bill.
But let's go to the trainingpart grant.

(19:07):
I was always always as chiefengineer, wanting to run
casualty drills and I wanted toget harder and tougher and I
wanted my engineering departmentto be able to handle any
casualty under any situation.
And let's go back to purpose.
I had a discussion with acaptain one time and says hey,

(19:27):
if there's one day there's atorpedo in the water coming at
us and there's a casualty in theengine room, we need to know
how to handle that and we needto push ourselves harder.
So that's one.
But let's go back to thetraining and qualification part
of this Grant, did you ask?
There are so many things goingon at sea and any command and
Marine Corps you know in thefield, whatever it is sometimes

(19:49):
to do some of these training opsthat junior petty officers need
.
Right, this new nuclear trainedmechanic needs a very simple
drill to qualify.
Well, that's pretty important.
And where does that fit undersupport and defend the
constitution of the UnitedStates?
Oh, my gosh, right, we're 10steps removed.
But if I don't continue to leadand say to the captain that,

(20:10):
hey, I need these drill setsbecause I need to qualify more
on mechanics and I don't trainthem to be able to operate the
interim under any circumstance,then we're not in a position to
support and defend theconstitution.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yep, no that's so big right and I think it's
something that just doesn't evenget comprehended is when you
get out to sea right, ifsomeone's qualification goes,
you know, gets expired orwhatever the case is, because
they haven't done enoughcontinuous drills or follow up
or reinforcements.
I'm so far out of the Navy I'mforgetting the actual
terminology, but someone'sstatus is like active and

(20:45):
qualified can, for lack ofbetter term, expire Right.
And if you're not doing enoughtraining and follow up, drills
and that needs to getcoordinated into the operational
plan of a submarine, right.
Like a lot of these things haveto happen while you're out to
sea, while you're underway, andthey need to get planned into
the overall operational plan,right.
And if you're not communicating, if you're not tracking the

(21:08):
training that your divisionneeds and communicating that up
the chain of command to thecaptain, you're going to be in a
spot where the captain is goingto be way more mad because the
sailors can't do anything,because they're not qualified to
do anything.

Speaker 2 (21:21):
And you get a morale issue right.
And I'm going to take this.
I don't want to say it'sextreme, this is real, alive.
But my nuclear mechanics, forsome reason, were always my
biggest challenge, probablybecause the most watch stations.
But when you looked at schools,when you looked at, they wanted
some time off.
Let's go to your exact point,grant, let's say somebody, my
nuclear welders were the bane ofmy existence.

(21:42):
Trying to keep the quality hadto take one to sea with me,
right, but let's just go.
You know, let's domino this.
If we have the right people whoare not qualified, that can
domino all the way.
I have a sailor that I have tosay no, I'm sorry, you cannot
take leave to go to yoursister's wedding.
And that's a tough message tosay to a sailor because you just
couldn't manage the watch billcorrectly.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
But it happens, and a big piece of this when it comes
to training, and it's in asimilar vein, which is why I
want to transition to it.
Next is this idea of providingsailors with the tools that they
need to do their job, whichcould be quite literally a
physical tool, but usually it'snot a physical thing.

(22:25):
Do you mind elaborating on thispiece of your leadership
philosophy?

Speaker 2 (22:35):
What does this mean for a divot?
To give the sailors the toolsthat they need to do their job.
And you're right, it is not aphysical tool.
It can be right.
If they don't have the physicaltools they need to do their job
, then literally bad thingshappen.
So I think I'll give an exampleof what I found to be very
successful and it took me waytoo long to learn this.
Okay, when you're in an upkeepand this also applies when
you're at sea but their schedule, the sailor's schedule to do

(22:56):
maintenance, gets very complexwhen one division wants to do
maintenance X and another,vision, wants to do maintenance
Y and you cannot do them at thesame time, for either safety
concerns or just you know wecan't shut down half the
electric plant because I needthe electric plant running for
this division to do their job.
Well, sometimes what wouldhappen is you go through and you

(23:18):
plan this right, and soWednesday afternoon you plan
that's a plan for the morning,but we need the captain's
permission to start and theyoung junior officer, the young
department head, waits till themorning to get the captain's
permission.
And you find out in the morningCab's got a doctor's
appointment and he's not comingin.
Okay, so this sounds very silly, but the planning aspects in

(23:41):
allowing them to do their job.
So what did I do when we werein port, every day 3 pm, there
was a meeting of all the chiefsand division officers by the
reduction years in the end room.
Okay, and was it a pain in theneck to drop everything we were
doing at 3 pm?
Absolutely.
But we would talk about what'sgoing on for the rest of the day
and what do you need tomorrow.

(24:03):
So I would routinely go to thecaptain around four o'clock and
say Captain, here's the threethings I want to do tomorrow.
And just as an example, he'dsay on those two out of three,
you have permission to start inthe morning.
On number three, I will be here, but you need to come and get
permission.
So a lot of times those toolsto do their job are just
scheduling.
I mean, as simple as thatsounds, it can be tough in a

(24:26):
complex upkeep.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Yeah, no, 100% Scheduling admin.
There's so many things that youdon't necessarily think of.
As you know this of hyperimportance in your role as
division officer, but it reallyis, and that's how you can start
to build that culture and astandard of excellence when you
are being excellent at your jobas a JO, to train your sailors,

(24:49):
to give them the tools that theyneed to make sure everything is
scheduled appropriately so theycan do the jobs that they need
to do to stay qualified andproficient right, and so these
are the things that matter.
And so this is the next pieceof your leadership.
Philosophy is about setting astandard of excellence, and so
how does that relate to amidshipman and how does that
relate to a junior officer, likewhat things need to get done,

(25:11):
and how do you go from a largescale of what it means to have a
standard of excellence to,quite literally, a daily
implementation of what it means,habit-wise, to actually bring
that to life?

Speaker 2 (25:23):
Well, let's start with from the midshipman.
I'll go ahead and say it backwhen I was a plebe.

Speaker 1 (25:31):
Right after the last real plebe summer.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:33):
Back when I was a plebe, on day one we had to read
a message to Garcia.
Right?
And for those of you notfamiliar with it, whether you're
a parent or you want to be amidshipman, you're applying to
Academy.
Just go Google message toGarcia and read that, right?
And that's what starts with astandard of excellence.
Right, I will get the job doneno matter what.

(25:55):
Ok, and I'll give another quickstory.
This is for Scott Ward was aNaval Academy grad and he was a
fellow native Pittsburgher.
But Scott was one of my juniorofficers and he was the
electrical division officer.
Well, when I was a divisionofficer, I thought the engineer
knew everything.
Then I became engineer andrealized yeah he didn't really

(26:18):
know much either.
And, scott, when he was a littleyounger, he would come to me
and say, engineer, we have to dothis maintenance, and I'd
probably never heard of some ofthem.
Right, like, okay, that makessense, this needs to be done.
And he said what do we do?
And I would ask him the samequestion, I mean verbatim, scott
, what does the book say?
Because the book usually leadsyou in the right direction.

(26:40):
Okay, and here's what it's liketo set a standard of excellence
.
A standard of excellence iswhen, six months later, that
same young officer, scott Ward,comes to me and says, hey,
engineer, we got to do thismaintenance.
And guess what?
I looked at the book and itleads us in the right direction.
And here's what it says.
Here's what we have to do.
Right, you train them to dosimple things.

(27:01):
Okay, and I got another Grant.
This is one of my favoritestories and it just illustrates
this.
Okay, my first captain.
Okay, I'm a young ensign, right, I'm like I can find the front
end of the submarine to the back, right.

(27:22):
And the 8 o'clock reports, the12 o'clock reports and the
20-hundred reports okay, forthose of you not aware, but the
captain gets this stack ofreports you know periodically
throughout the day so he cankind of figure out what's going
on.
As engineer I'd have to signthe fuel oil and water report
every morning and he would, youknow, say, hey, do we have
enough water?
Do we have enough water to doeverything?
But anyways, for my firstcaptain, if that 8 o'clock

(27:42):
report came much after 8 o'clockin five seconds, he would blow
his cool and at first I thoughtwhat is the deal with five
seconds?
And he turned to me after oneof those times where he called
the officer of the DAC and readhim the riot act.
And he looks at me and he says,eric, this ship is only 300

(28:05):
feet long.
It means I'm within 300 feet.
If people can't find me todeliver some simple reports at 8
, 12, and 2,200, there's a wholelot of other things going wrong
on this submarine that I justdon't know about yet.
So you asked about dailyroutines.
Now I will, just as a sidebarhere.

(28:26):
There are some things thatdon't require excellence.
This is good enough and you canmove forward and get it done
right.
The chocolate chip cookiesdon't come up right on Wednesday
.
Hey, we want to get that right.
We do want excellence in ourfood.
But you figure out what'simportant enough to set a
standard for excellence and youset that standard for excellence

(28:46):
.

Speaker 1 (28:48):
Yeah, 100%.
I love it, and I love how youmentioned like some of this
stuff is just so simple and it'sanother plebe summer thing.
We talk about a message toGarcia.
It's something that wasconstantly metaphorically beat
into us, which is a brilliancein the basics.
Right, there's a truebrilliance in the basics.
And just doing the very simplethings, the very basic things,

(29:11):
well and consistently well,right and like those are the
things that will build thefoundation.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Well, you bring up a great point, graham.
Let's talk about one of thefirst challenges of plebe summer
.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
It's being able to show up at formation on time
doing the plebe shuffle becauseyou're right, you're, you're
late, but you better get therenow, and for us as well.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
I I'm assuming this is true.
If you showed up at Formationon time and your roommate was
late, there were two of you hereabout that one, but it's the
basics of you do things on time.

Speaker 1 (29:50):
Time time information .

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Wait for no man.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Time time information wait for no man.
And-hmm.
Time time information wait forno man.
And you only said that a couplehundred times in our life For
everyone listening at the end ofa chow call.
If you're not familiar withwhat a chow call is, I highly
recommend you go and check outthe Understanding Plebe Summer
videos that we've done to talkabout chow calls and what it is.
But basically the sign-off atthe end of every chow call is

(30:17):
quite literally that time timeinformation wait for no man and
wait, wait, wait for no one.
And then you go and again, likeyou're saying, beat into us
from day one as something that'swildly, wildly important.
Now I kind of want to talk toyou again.
This is something that's reallyinteresting because recently
we've had on a guest, chowdaCall sign Chowda.
He's the CEO of the Eisenhower.

(30:38):
He's really big on this idea ofmorale and recognition like
public recognition, and one ofyour leadership philosophies
here is you have it as pat themon the back often enough, which
I think is a really interestingpiece to talk about.
Including this verbiage ofoften enough and kind of think
is a really interesting piece totalk about.
Including this verbiage ofoften enough and kind of

(30:58):
specifying that.
What's the philosophy behindthat in your opinion and, kind
of, what do you mean in thisoverarching idea?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah.
So let's start with why thewords often enough, okay, and
we'll get back to pat them onthe back.
You don't have to pat them onthe back when they fail.
You don't have to pat them onthe back when they try really,
really hard and come up short.
Right now there can be a littlebit of encouragement.
Hey, I recognize you tried hard, but you know we just didn't
get the job done.
I mean, there are times whenthings don't go the way they're

(31:29):
supposed to, right, which is whywe're setting a standard for
excellence right, why we'resetting a standard for
excellence right.
If they don't meet thatstandard for excellence, you
don't have to pat them on theback Now when they're making
progress toward that or whenthey accomplish the job.
You know, grant, let's go backto purpose Purpose and patting
them on the back go together andI want to paint this picture
for Mitch Shipp and the youngofficers is, you know, on a

(31:51):
prolonged deployment, as chiefengineer, you have a department
of 55 people that see the insideof the engine room for almost
six months.
They're not looking out theperiscope, they're not sure if
they have a purpose right,they're making steam, they're
making water and they're they're, for the most part, right Doing
, okay, but they need to knowwhat their purpose is.
Okay, and so patting them onthe back and I've've got another

(32:14):
silly example is that field daythere's a word that makes
people cringe right, but fieldday was not a party, it was not
a picnic, right, we didn't haveballoons and three-legged races,
and that it was when you deepcleaned the ship.
Everybody up at Friday morningfor the morning and I would go
back and I would get on the 2MC,which is the announcing system

(32:36):
that goes throughout the engineroom, and I would try to
encourage them as to why thiswas important.
And some days I felt like I wasjust this talking head in the
microphone and nobody's payingattention and they're thinking,
oh, here goes the engineer again, he's trying to make us feel
like this is important and allwe're doing is getting grease
and dirty on us.
But I was having a roughmorning one time for field day

(32:59):
and just decided to skip my 2mcannouncement and I had about a
half a dozen say they say, hey,where's the ringing cheery
announcement about why we'redoing field day?
So patting them on the back.
So so back to you.
I'm sorry.
Who was the eisen CEO, if youcould repeat that.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Oh yeah, chowder, chowder, captain Hill 100%.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
You have got to be encouraging to these folks.
And you asked about what Ilearned at the Naval Academy and
I remember this from AdmiralWaller talking about when we go
on midshipman cruise, and itstuck with me.
So, as I'm walking around aschief engineer and division
officers, you need to realizethis as well.
You're going to have a sailorstop you, or you need to do this

(33:40):
when they're in the middle ofgetting their hands dirty for
some maintenance item.
And I had a couple say hey,engineer, let me show you
something, and in most cases Ireally didn't have time for it,
but I made time because really,what that sailor was saying to
me was I want to show you howimportant I am.
I want to show you what I know.
I want to show you how I'mintegral to making this entire

(34:03):
engine room work.
I am integral to allowing thisship to go to sea and be a
warfighting vessel.
And as much as I could, I wouldspend about, you know, two
minutes, right, not a whole lot,but I would let them share with
me and I would always learnsomething out of it.
So there's a gazillion ways topat them on the back and, grant,
I got one more, I think, thissea story.

(34:23):
I wish I'd have learned thislong before I did.
But I was in my last couplemonths of being on active duty
and one of the nuclear mechanicswas getting out of the Navy and
I just kind of did a personalcheckout interview with him and
he said you know, engineer, weget these letters from the
captain, we get this letter ofaccommodation from the admiral
or the commodore, and they takeyou all two, three months to

(34:46):
edit them and go back and forth.
He says, and it's OK, Iappreciate it, but wouldn't it
be a whole lot easier for thecaptain just to spend five
minutes out of his day, walkback to the engine room and say
good job, thanks for what youdid?
And I thought wow, man, I wishI would have grasped that sooner
.
And junior officers, that'ssomething you take.

(35:08):
Go to your department head,depending on how big the command
is Right.
Ask somebody to just patanother sailor on the back.
Hey, I heard what you did andgreat job, we're proud of you.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
No, 100 percent.
I feel like, again, more andmore, it's just clear that it's
just, it's just being a humanbeing.
People want to be seen, theywant to be understood, they want
to be acknowledged for whatthey're contributing to the
overall purpose of the, of themission.
Right, and you know, sometimesthat's that's tough, but again,
it's just a great reminder to usto do that right To like, truly

(35:40):
see, to truly understand, totruly acknowledge.
Go out of our way, make theextra effort to acknowledge
individuals when they're likeyou're saying, when they're
maintaining and continuing toset the bar of that standard of
excellence right and doing thosethings.
So couldn't agree more.
Transitioning to the last pieceof excellence right and doing
those things.
So couldn't be couldn't agreemore.
Transitioning to the last pieceof this leadership philosophy,
number seven, which is the ideaof being inspiration.

(36:01):
Now, obviously this is a topicthat stretches across a lot of
different realms, but when wetalk about being an inspiration,
what does this mean to you andfor the young midshipmen that
are out there?
How can they be an inspirationto their sailors that they'll
stand in front of soon enough?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, and Grant, we talked.
It's very broad reaching and Idon't want to say nebulous, but
there are a number of ways thatyou can do that.
But let me start with this.
If you take everything else inmy leadership philosophy the
other six right Define yourpurpose, find the right people,
train them right, give them thetools they need to do their job,
pat them on the back oftenenough and set a standard for

(36:41):
excellence.
You don't even have to show upto do any of those, barely right
.
I can appoint somebody else todo the training and if I'm not
around, if I just decide todelegate and disappear, I'm not
really being an inspiration,right.
And I think the best example Ihave of that is I listened real
hard.
So Captain Dennis Jones, and hebecame a two-star, maybe a
three-star admiral, but DennyJones, I worked for him a while

(37:02):
and when he was before hischange of command he got us all
together.
He's a little teary-eyed and areally good speech, one of the
best naval officers I everserved under.
But he said you know, I come inday to day and I look at you
guys and I say there, I come inday to day and I look at you
guys and I say there go mypeople.
And I got to catch up to thembecause I'm their leader and
that was inspiring, that heempowered us to go do our jobs

(37:23):
without micromanaging us, and hejust really did that.
So back to Larry Davis, mycaptain.
He and I just exchanged a fewnotes because I was hunting with
some shipmates and they wereboth enlisted shipmates, but
they referred to Captain LarryDavis as the best one ever.
Okay, and I sent him a note.

(37:45):
I said hey, you need to knowthat Dave and Stacy are
referring to you as the best oneever.
And he inspired us because hetrusted us and it was hey,
here's the list of things that Itrust you to do.
Oh, by the way, here's a shortlist of things that I need to
put my fingerprint on, and thosewere pretty clear.

(38:05):
But I also tell the story thatthere were a hand I was allowed
to disagree with him openly,right, not in front of the
troops, but I was free to cometo him and say, hey, I don't see
eye to eye with you on this one.
And I also jokingly say,probably about 80% of the time
the captain was right and I waswrong.
Well, I was captain.
But we did that.
But he inspired me.

(38:28):
He patted me on the back and heset that standard for
excellence right, which now Ipassed down and I set that.
So here's another quick story ofhow I inspired one junior
officer, mark Michelet, probablyone of the best junior officers
I've ever served with.
Mark came into officer's callone morning.
I don't know whether he wasfeeling well, but he just had an

(38:50):
attitude that I'd never seenand I put a stop to officer's
call and I says, captain, excuseme, and I looked at Mark,
called him out into thepassageway outside officer's
call and I said, look.
I said I don't know what gotinto you today, but I never want
to see it again.
So there were a few F-bombs.
Probably let's just talk therewith some sign language, but

(39:11):
this is not like you.
I never want to see you likethis ever again.
And Mark was a guy who set astandard for excellence and when
he fell short of that I calledhim out on it.
But I hope, hopefully Iinspired him.
Just, you're right, grant.
I'm kind of rambling nowbecause it is such a broad topic
.
Let me throw that back at you.
I love when I have on mypodcast people throw questions

(39:32):
back at me.
How would you answer thatquestion for these young junior
officers in the gym and how dothey inspire others?

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Yeah, in my opinion, it's all in the power of
presence, right.
And so for me, what it means tobe an inspiration more or less
right is when the people who arein your division again for my
sailors, whatever it is theyknew that I was going to be
there, I was going to mentallyand attention-wise actually be

(40:01):
there, I was going to physicallybe there and I was going to
mentally be there to take like,to be involved in their lives
and that, as a result of allthat, I was going to see them,
acknowledge them, care for themand then help them.
Kind of like back to your piece, which is, give them the tools
that they need.
That was a big thing for mebecause I think a lot of times
you know where a jail canpotentially separate themselves

(40:23):
is by being an advocate for asailor in the command.
Right Is being able to workwith your chief to develop a
plan, knowing that, hey, we'regoing to cover down the watch
bill, we're going to kind of putdown everything that we need so
that we can give Sailor X achance to go to a school to get

(40:43):
a new NEC that may help themadvance or get a billet that
they want.
Right, like these are the thingsto be around enough to know
that this sailor wants thisthing to progress in their
career or to progress in theirlife, and then, on top of that,
actually take the effort to puteverything in place to give that
sailor that opportunity, right.
And so for me, this, this ideaof being an inspiration, is just
being someone that that caresfor them genuinely and that that

(41:06):
means actually taking action tosupport the things that they
want to see happen in their life.
Right.
And so those are the things tome that I've, you know, I really
appreciated from from my timein the service, because, again,
what's funny is, a lot of timesthe things that are most
important to you are the thingsthat other people did for you
and you realize how big of animpact it was in your life,
right, and I had a couple of,you know, department heads in my

(41:29):
world that advocated on mybehalf to give me really cool
opportunities in the Navy aswell that otherwise I might not
have gotten, and I realized howmuch that mattered to me and how
important that was to me andhow cool that was Right, and so,
from a lot of those differentaspects, you know, I would say
that's kind of what inspired alot of people is they knew that
if they continue to do their job, they continue to set that

(41:51):
standard of excellence, thatwhen they needed something that
you were, you were going to bethat champion for them to get it
across the finish line right,or at least advocate on their
behalf in a really positive way.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Yeah, and I think it brings another C story to mind
and being an inspiration themknowing that you have your back
or that you have their back.
That will inspire them.
And there were only a coupletimes this ever happened.
We had a saying that when theengineer had a tool in his hand
in the engine room, things werenot going well.
And the quick story is duringstartup there was a valve in the

(42:26):
wrong position.
Somebody did not shut down apiece of machinery correctly and
this valve was not easy to tellthe position.
Long story short, it shouldhave been shut and it was open.
We're trying to open it to startup the engine room and we're
tight.
We're making it more open andwe're jamming it against and
stop and nobody can figure outwhat's going on.
And we're trying to get theship underway.
We're potentially going to lookbad.

(42:46):
So we put a torque wrench on itand we decided we're going to
make the assumption that it'sthe wrong position and we're
going to force it in theopposite direction.
My point is this I looked toall the mechanics.
I said give me the wrench.
And they said why?
I said because if we break thisthing, y'all are going down,
including me.

(43:07):
There's no reason you have togo down.
I'll take the fall if we breakthis thing, and there was a lot
of equity, a lot of respect thatI was willing to take the fall.
It was my decision right, so Iwas the only one that needed to
get in trouble with it, and Iknow I got a lot of respect for
that decision out of the troops100%, 100%.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
So I appreciate it.
I appreciate your rundown onall these different aspects and
for again, potentially a highschool student out there that's
trying to learn about the Navyand the Naval Academy that may
be listening and considering aservice academy, give us your
best recruiting pitch and kindof final thoughts.
What do you want to leave theaudience with about why young

(43:47):
men and women should consider aservice academy for their
collegiate education?

Speaker 2 (43:51):
I mean other than I wouldn't trade it for anything
in the world.
That's not the best recruitingpitch.
Right, because it says it wasright for me, right?
First of all, you have to havea heart to want to serve your
country.
Okay, that's it.
You will get the best educationbar none.
Okay, we can set aside whetherit's a service academy or not.

(44:12):
We can set aside those US Newsand World Report rankings which
always have the serviceacademies at the top, and you
will get the best education barnone.
You will get leadership skillsthat will carry you forward into
life.
These are skills that are, Iwon't say, not taught in any
other university.
Certainly, you could join anROTC program, but you're just

(44:32):
not going to get the leadershipskills that you get at those
academies anywhere else.
And if you're still on thefence after this marginal
recruiting pitch, find somebodylocally to talk to I think the
blue and gold officers, orthat's their job to kind of help

(44:52):
people get down that road.
But go talk to another serviceacademy graduate.
Okay, if you want to reach outto me on social media, eric
Dyson, find me on Facebook, findme on LinkedIn.
I'd be happy to have aconversation.
I mean literally anybody outthere who's considering, I'd be
happy to have a conversationwith you.
The last thing I would say youneed to want it for yourself.
I had one plebe that wasassigned to me that he was there

(45:16):
for all the wrong reasons.
He was there because hisparents wanted him to be there.
His father was a high profileadmiral and I just said to him
one day you need to decidewhether you want to be here or
not.
And he made up his mind.
He did want to be there.
It's not the right choice forsome people, but for those that
you would write, it is the bestexperience we're out there for,

(45:38):
not college 100%.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
We talk about this idea of being an inspiration.
Do you have someone or a storyof a difference maker, an impact
maker in your life, aninspiration during your Naval
Academy journey, someone thatyou want to highlight that
really bettered your NavalAcademy experience?

Speaker 2 (45:56):
At the.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Naval Academy, naval academy or, or the fleet.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Either one let me get I I can.
Yeah, commander munger, he wasan o5 at the time.
He taught the introduction tonaval systems, okay, and the
funny thing is I bumped into himabout six months after I
graduated.
I saw him in an elevator duringmy temporary duty in was DC,
and that time he's CaptainMunger.
I said Captain Munger, and helooked at me and I said hey, I

(46:20):
need to thank you.
He has no idea where this iscoming from.
The first quiz I ever took atthe Naval Academy, I got a D
plus on it.
Yeah, and, grant, I rememberback when you were starting the
Academy Insider, I was trying toremind parents that, hey, your
sons and daughters about to gofrom being top 10 percent in

(46:41):
their class to be an averageVery quickly, very quickly.
Not only did I get a D plus,but it had a note that said see
me.
And I thought, oh, you know howdid this go down here I am
already in trouble.
And he had me come to his officefor what were office hours for
the professors?
He said to me tell me about howyou study.

(47:03):
And I told him he says let meguess you rarely studied in high
school.
Everything came relatively easyfor you.
You cracked the book open everynow and then just to refresh
yourself or test, but you'venever really had to study.
And I said, yes, sir, you'reright.
He said you have no idea how tostudy and if you don't fix that
, you're not going to make ithere.
And in 20 minutes he taught mehow to study.

(47:23):
And Grant had that O5, thatcommander not taking the time
for one student in his class tosay come see me and teach me how
to study.

Speaker 1 (47:34):
I would not have made it academically come see me and
teach me how to study, I wouldnot have made it academically.
Yeah, 100%.
Again, my biggest thing aboutthe Naval Academy is how much
the staff are there for not justtheir job of the academic
teaching but the whole persondevelopment.
Right, and knowing that, again,this is more than just the

(47:54):
class material.
This is about learning how tostudy.
This is about learning how tobuild the right habits.
Right, I tell my story in myfirst naval history paper that I
wrote and changed the size ofthe font to my periods where
that ended up not going verywell in my favor.
But it was a very clear and avery immediate correction about
this idea that you have tomaintain an extremely high

(48:16):
standard of excellence ineverything that you do.
And it's habitual, right, it'snot about this paper, it's about
this idea that, like, you haveto build habits to do everything
the right way, right,consistently, and do it all the
time.
And so it's, it's one of thebeauties of you know, the Naval
Academy experience, the serviceAcademy experience.
So absolutely love it.

(48:37):
Eric, thank you so much fortaking the time to join us today
.
Is there anything you want toleave the Academy Insider
audience with before we wrap uptoday?

Speaker 2 (48:45):
I would just encourage you all to keep,
especially the parents and thoseof you that are considering the
Service Academy.
Grant's got a great thing goingon here.
If you've not already listened,there's just a lot of things to
help you manage yourexpectations.
I guess this is the one otherthing Grant I would leave is
that when I showed up on I-Dayright first day and went through

(49:06):
plebe summer, my expectationwas it was going to be more of a
physical battle of calisthenicsand running us around compared
to the mental struggle.
Right, of calisthenics andrunning us around compared to
the mental struggle.
I quickly found out oh my gosh,this is more of a mental
memorization and just knowingthings and showing up.
The mental stress was much morethan the physical.

(49:27):
I mean physical was there?
Sure, mental stress was muchhigher than the physical stress
were.
Now, I survived and I'm nottrying to paint an ugly picture,
but that's what you have toprep yourself for 100%.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
I think that's phenomenal advice In general.
Again, I think, like you'resaying, a lot of times, people
just assume the physical is thehard part.
But again, when you're an18-year-old young man or woman
going across for the first time,again there's homesickness,
there's extreme mental stress,there's for the first time,
again there's homesickness.
There's extreme like mentalstress, there's physical stress,
Like you're just in thisconstant state of discomfort
that really pushes the mentallike an emotional toughness that

(50:04):
you need to have, and it'sagain, but it's that way for a
reason, right, and it builds thefoundation of what you need to
kind of embrace all thechallenges at the academy and in
the fleet and all the above.
So I really appreciate it.
Well, Eric, thank you so muchagain for taking the time to
join us today and share your seastories, your opinion and

(50:24):
philosophy when it comes toleadership, and it's really
greatly appreciated.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
I appreciate the opportunity.
Thanks Grant.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Of course, the Academy Insider audience again
reach out to Eric any point youcan reach out to me.
I, of course, the AcademyInsider audience Again reach out
to Eric at any point you canreach out to me.
I'll also put you in touch withhim if you'd like.
Otherwise, I really appreciateit.
I hope you enjoyed the listenand I hope you have a great day.
Thank you so much for listeningto this episode of the Academy
Insider Podcast.
I really hope you liked it,enjoyed it and learned something
during this time.
If you did, please feel free tolike and subscribe or leave a

(50:54):
comment about the episode.
We really appreciate to hearyour feedback about everything
and continue to make AcademyInsider an amazing service that
guides, serves and supportsmidshipmen, future midshipmen
and their families.
Thank you.