February 11, 2026 • 43 mins
Mark Elias is a Los Angeles-based writer, actor, and independent filmmaker focused on grounded, commercial indie films with bold concepts and strong character work. He is the producer of We Could Be Heroes, a comedy-crime heist rooted in gaming culture. Mark is currently raising the film through WeFunder, allowing the public to invest and follow the project’s real-time journey from campaign to production. His work blends entrepreneurial execution with story-driven filmmaking, with a mission to build audience-first entertainment that can break out commercially.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (01:14):
What happens when filmmakers stop asking for
donations and start invitingaudiences to become investors?
Today's episode gives you afront row look.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
From the Hard Productions helps independent
filmmakers understand not justhow to make great films, but how
to fund them intelligently andsustainably in today's rapidly
evolving landscape.
One of the biggest shifts we'reseeing right now is filmmakers
(01:49):
stepping into the role ofentrepreneur, learning how to
invite audiences not just towatch their films, but to
participate in bringing them tolife.
Today's guest is a great exampleof that shift.
I'm delighted to welcome MarkElias, a Los Angeles-based
(02:12):
writer, actor, and independentfilmmaker whose work focuses on
grounded commercial indie filmsand with bold concepts and
strong character work.
Mark is the producer of We CouldBe Heroes, a comedy crime heist
(02:33):
rooted in gaming culture.
And he's currently raising fundsfor the film through We Funder,
an equity crowdfunding platformthat allows the public to invest
in independent projects andfollow their journey from
campaign to production.
(02:53):
What we find exciting aboutMark's approach is that he's not
just raising money, he'sbuilding an audience-first
ecosystem around his film,blending storytelling, business
strategy, and transparency in away more filmmakers need to
(03:13):
understand.
And Carol, you've beenrecommending WeFunder to
filmmakers lately, haven't you?
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Yes, I have, Claire, because I really think it's an
important platform forfilmmakers to understand, and
especially those interested inequity crowdfunding.
Thank you, Mark, for joining us.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Thank you both for having me on the show today.
SPEAKER_02 (03:35):
Good.
Well, uh, we want to start withwhat made you choose WeFunder
and equity crowdfunding insteadof Kickstarter or traditional
investors.
SPEAKER_00 (03:47):
Well, I had the first two films I made, I used
Kickstarter and Indiegogo, andthey are strictly
donation-based.
And we raised a decent amount,well, a decent amount,
depending, I guess, on what youthink a decent amount is.
They were both both budgets wereabout$50,000.
Um, and so for this one, I thinkwith Wii Funder, I liked the
(04:09):
idea that people weren't justdonating, they were actually
investing.
Um, I think you you know, likewith Kickstarter, once the
campaign ends, the relationshipkind of ends too.
But with Wii Funder, investorsstay connected to the film's
journey, and there's a biggerincentive to be involved.
And you get, I think, peoplethat are looking at it from a
(04:30):
different scope.
Um, I think also traditionalinvestors be are just harder and
harder to access if you're notalready sort of in that system.
So the thing about Wii Funderthat I really liked was it lets
you open the door to people whobelieve in the story and they
want to be a part of itfinancially and creatively.
So, you know, I think once youare able to tap into an
(04:54):
audience, it's a great way toget them there.
And the platform itself is sortof um, I think for a lack of a
better term, like it legitimizesyou if you just reaching out to
people online.
A lot of times they might belike, This is fake, you know.
But with you know, WeFunder, youhave a platform, they can go,
they can check it out, and yououtline all the perks and stuff
(05:18):
similar to the Kickstarters, butagain, it's equity-based, so
it's a different kind ofparticipation on their end.
SPEAKER_02 (05:25):
Well, tell us how you positioned your film.
Could we be heroes?
So people didn't just don't justwant to watch the film, but they
want to invest in it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
Yeah, so I think what's really helped and worked
so far, I think for me, is I tryto treat it less like a movie
pitch and more like a startup.
Um, We Could Be Heroes is kindof this, it's a commercial uh
sort of a crime, a comedy crimestory about this gamer girl
whose console is mysteriouslystolen.
(05:59):
So it has these like commercialhooks to it.
It has like a huge worldwideaudience in the gaming
community.
It's fast, it's witty, it'sirreverent.
Um for an indie film, it's likereally, I think, just very
unique and has a youthful voiceto it.
And that really helps for me toget an idea of who would be not
(06:23):
just the audience, but who wouldbe a backer for it.
So I have an idea of what myaudience looks like, and
treating it like a startup, I'mbasically not even just saying
here's the story, but you'reable to focus on who the
audience is, you why it'scommercially viable, and you
know, we have the gamer angle,and it's exciting and fast and
(06:46):
irreverent, and then what thebudget strategy is is another
kind of angle that you have totake, I think, from a business
standpoint, and then howinvestors participate in the
upside.
So I think at the end of theday, you treat it like a
startup.
People want to invest when theyfeel like there's a real plan,
not just a script and afilmmaker's dream, because I
(07:09):
don't want to say it's naive,but I think to the outside world
and people that are looking atit, they might see that as
naive.
But when you approach it with abusiness plan and a startup
mentality, that's a languagethat a lot of investors speak
and understand.
And I think that they connectwith that, and you're starting
from a strong ground zerowhenever you get on a call with
(07:31):
them.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
Well, so in other words, uh, what did you need to
have in place before launching?
Like, did you have a deck or alookbook or a pitch video?
Had did you put your teamtogether?
Did you have your lawyerattached?
Things like that.
Share that information, please.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Well, at the very minimum, I mean, the first thing
that you need with WeFunder isyou need 50 grand uh and a uh
what's called a lead investor.
So you get somebody, and theydon't have to be the person
putting in the 50 grand, butgenerally it's the easiest if
you get one person to put in 50and they'll say, I'm the lead
(08:14):
investor, and they it's a cooltitle, nothing really is
attached to that except thatthey would disperse information.
So if you have, let's say youhave 5,000 people to back the
project, your lead investor isthe one that sort of disperses
information to those 5,000people, um, you know, unless
(08:34):
unless you're not keeping themupdated.
So generally you need that$50,000 to get started.
But beyond that, there's acouple things that I think are
really helpful, and there'sdifferent reasons for each one.
I think you you need a strongpitch deck, you just have to
have that because that's thebasis and the backbone for
everything.
And if you ask me, that pitchdeck has to align with the
(08:57):
branding of the film.
It has to align with thebranding of the film that you
have on the WeFunder page.
You're probably gonna want awebsite, and that website needs
to align with the brandingthat's in the pitch deck.
So, like from a 30,000-footview, you need the branding,
which has to be obviously inline with the script and the
(09:17):
vibe of the film.
But the pitch deck is whatpeople are gonna be able to
download online.
The pitch deck is what I cansend to investors outside of
WeFunder.
In some cases, they say, like, Idon't necessarily want to do
WeFunder because of the 7% thatthey take.
And then I have subscriptionagreements with the LLC.
So there's it's it's it's theirchoice, but the pitch deck is
(09:39):
always your selling point.
Um, and then you know, that alsoI learned that you know, you
build a business plan becausepeople are like, you need a
business plan, nobody reads abusiness plan.
They're 30 pages long, nobodyreads it.
They want a pitch deck thatsays, what is the movie, what's
it about, what are the terms,what is the timeline, what's the
when do I start seeing my moneyback, and like what's the
(10:01):
distribution plan?
Uh, and then piggybacking off ofthat, you need uh you need a
clear financial structure.
You need to be able to say, Thisis these are the terms, this is
how the waterfall money works,this is how you know, basically
also a budget.
Like, you need to be able tosay, like, this is where all the
money's gonna go because they'regonna want to see that you're
(10:21):
not just looking for money anddon't know what you're doing
with it.
Um, you need a legal entity, soyou need an LLC because the Wii
Funder is tied to that.
Um, most likely, if you don'thave one already, you're going
to need a teaser or a pitchvideo that's specific to Wii
Funder because you want to getpeople excited about it in a way
(10:43):
that you guide them through thesteps of how to donate versus
just like here's a cool teaserof the movie that I want to make
that's in my head.
Uh and then I think the lastthing, and this always depends
on the film and the filmmakerthemselves, but a basic team
around the project really helps.
I you can never count on otherpeople to do the fundraising for
(11:05):
you because it just seems likethat's just not gonna work.
It's always about your hustle,especially if you're the person
who write it, it writes it andyou're producing it.
But I have two or threeproducers that I lean on that I
go for advice when I get on acall, you know, because people
find you through the WeFunderand then you get pitched all
(11:25):
kinds of stuff, and you need tovet what is actually here and
who's just trying to piggybackoff of somebody else's project
and make some money so that teamcan be helpful in more ways than
one.
Hopefully, they help with theoutreach too.
Um, I don't think you needeverything locked before you
launch, but you really needenough to show it's not just an
(11:46):
idea, it's a project that'sactually moving forward.
It goes back to treating it likea business.
You got to put your business haton and think like this needs to
be something I need to sustainthrough the production and
beyond to stay connected with myinvestors.
So for me, I think that youreally need a strong pitch deck,
a clear financial structure, youneed your legal entity, um, you
(12:09):
need the pitch video, anddefinitely don't just do it
once, work on it, and then abasic team around the project
that you know are gonna help andsupport in different ways that
maybe are your weaknesses.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Okay, so you talked about how important the pitch
deck was, plus branding.
Can you just hired a brandingcompany?
Tell us who that is and why.
What do you think they're goingto do for you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
So I one thing that, and this is kind of a long
journey.
We, my team and I basically uhwe've decided that I think you
get pitched so many things wherethere's a company that can do
something, and then you know,they're like, but we want
upfront fee, like there's anupfront fee to go do this, and
(12:58):
then for me, the their biggestsign, warning sign from here on
out is like if a company comesto you and says they can do
something, but they need moneyup front, I generally become
very skeptical, and that's whereyou can lean on a lawyer or
somebody, like one of myinvestors is very business and
financial minded, and I go tohim and he's like, This does not
(13:21):
check out.
So I would just say, like, as ageneral flag across anything,
when somebody comes, whenthere's a company that finds out
that you have money and areraising money, they will always
if they why if they try and getmoney up front, I think that you
either tell them they're notgetting paid up front, and then
you they usually get mad aboutthat, and then you're like,
(13:42):
that's grounds to walk becauseit's not or or it should be tied
to performance.
You have to you have to feel itout for yourself.
But that's one of the biggestlessons I've learned in this so
far.
Um, the company that I amworking with now is called
Branded Streams, and I had agreat conversation with them
from the start.
They're super upfront andtransparent, and just getting on
(14:04):
a Zoom and talking to somebodyand seeing their face and
feeling out whether or not thisis somebody that you
essentially, in business terms,want to get in bed with for the
duration of a project.
Um, they were very upfront aboutlike what it is they do.
They take the script, um, theybasically put it through a
process where it's like, hereare the different scenes in the
(14:25):
movie where there is potentialfor branding, and then it breaks
down each one, what's happeningin the scene and what the
opportunity is.
So I so far it's very early onin the process with them.
I just signed on with them aweek ago Thursday, but they've
already started putting thepieces in motion where they will
go to the brands, they will goto the companies that they have
(14:48):
access to and say, like, here'sa movie, this actor so-and-so is
involved with it.
It's it's got this gaming angle,it's super fast and witty and
fun, and it's commercial, it'syou know, you know, there's if a
gaming company gets tied to anesports company gets tied to it,
there's tons of eyeballsinvolved in that.
Like we're I've talked to threeor four global esports
(15:10):
companies, and if we're able topartner with them and we release
in conjunction with them, we'retied to their marketing.
They're all the eyeballs thatthey have, the audience that
they have gets access to, youknow, maybe like a premier to
the trailer of the movie, andand it just opens up a lot of
opportunity for us.
So the branding, there's it inthis case, there's a strong
(15:32):
opportunity for branding.
I wouldn't say that there'salways that.
If you're making, you know, Iand I love and I'm writing right
now with like a slow-paced indiedrama that's like a slice of
life, and there's probably a lotless sort of uh excitement or
like opportunity for like somereally bang bang product
(15:53):
placement.
Whereas the you know, there'sthat for this.
This opportunity has this filmhas that opportunity in a big
way.
So I felt I felt like that was aleap that this thing needed to
take.
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Um this is marvelous.
So this branding company isreading your script and looking
for places like in the kitchenwhen someone opened a cabinet.
What's in the cabinet, right?
That's branding, somethingthat's simple, or a car drives
up and the the DP captures theinsignia of the manufacturer of
(16:25):
the car.
So they're working for you, uh,identifying areas of branding in
your script.
So then will they go direct tothe car company or the product
placement people and ask forthem to uh support your film?
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Yeah, so like I can tell you right now, like there's
one scene in the movie where theour our heroes go to like save
the day, and the getaway driveruh is sitting in his car uh and
he's and and and and they'recalling him like SOS, come ready
to get pick us up, but he'ssitting there eating a burger
(17:04):
and fries and completely missesthe fact that they're calling
for help um in kind of this justyou know comedic nothing can go
right kind of way.
And I and I told them likethat's like prime real estate.
You have to think of it fromlike the brand's perspective,
like that's like literallyfeatured on screen in the scene,
the guy is doing nothing buteating your hamburger, like
(17:28):
McDonald's or whoever BurgerKing, any of them, Carl Jr., if
you want that, that's like primereal estate in the movie.
So, from their perspective,there's value in that.
So they'll go to those fast foodcompanies.
Um, or you know, in the sceneswhere they're gaming in the cool
gaming layer that thesecharacters have, there's
(17:49):
opportunity for like whateverbrand that wants to be aligned
with snacks or energy drinkswant us to be aligned with
gamers.
Those are opportunities there tobe seen organically in this
film, and they go to thosecompanies and say, Hey, here's
here's this project.
There's already fundinginvolved, they have this actor
involved, and then they'll comeback and say, Either, you know,
(18:11):
these this company is willing togive you like food for the set,
or like they'll they'll back Xamount of money for this
opportunity in your movie.
So there's levels to, and we'revery early on in this process,
and the company is fairly new,but this is they've been
transparent with thecommunication about how they
work so far, so we'll see how itgoes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
But yeah, great.
That sounds wonderful.
Now tell us how how did youbuild momentum early in the
campaign and what converted bestemails, social posting, press,
partnerships, or just directoutreach?
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Oh boy.
Um I think for me, directoutreach by far is the most
important thing.
Like email and personal messagesconverted much better than
general social posts.
I think you post socially uhshare general messages to like
(19:14):
raise awareness, but then toclose the deals.
For me, it's always like directoutreach and follow-up.
I think kind of the biggestlesson, I think, for me at the
end of the day is like peopleinvest because of relationships,
not just content.
So like your content can be cooland it's fun, and like maybe you
hope to go viral with like somefun videos, but people get
(19:35):
excited about it and they likeretweet it or something, or
they're like, I liked yourvideo, and you're like, that's
cool, but that doesn't like thatdoesn't liking my video like
doesn't get convert.
So it's really about directoutreach, it's relationships,
it's just like going to theperson.
I I'm not a big phone callperson, maybe it's like a
(19:56):
generational thing, but likeit's been email, personal
messages, um, hitting somebodyup on social media and following
up.
So I would say like social mediahelps with the visibility, but
the real conversions closed mostof the investments, probably all
of the investments were justconversations.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
Because people give money to people, not to films,
Mark.
That's the point.
So your personal connection tothe film, your um confidence
when they talk to you and yourdetermination uh is is
contagious, and that makes themcross the barrier of trust and
(20:38):
likability and say, yes, here'syour money.
But what surprised you the mostonce the campaign went public?
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Once the campaign went public, I think what
surprised me the most was Ithink it's just how much
consistency matters.
Like you can't, I think I thinkfilmmakers just think, oh, I'll
just launch a campaign and likeit'll be live and people will
see it.
And I think that's an error thatI saw even with the first two
(21:11):
when I did Kickstarter andIndiegogo, is you can't just
launch and put it out there andthen hope like a crowd shows up.
Um, I think the consistencymeans consistent messaging.
I think it's a daily processwhere you do updates, outreach,
follow-ups, you try new angles,you do new content.
It's I I think honestly, it'smore like running a small
(21:34):
startup than running a filmcampaign because you're doing
the same thing a small startupwould do, and you have to frame
it in your mind that way.
Like there's a lot of littlelies.
I think you tell yourself athousand little lies throughout
the process.
And for this, for me, it wasdefinitely like look, this is it
can be fun.
You need to like come up withnew angles, and maybe it's like
(21:56):
a little snippet of likeinterview with a cast member, or
I started doing what I think iseffective is like little
testimonials from investors,doesn't matter how big of an
investor they are, or like howearly they backed it, it's like,
hey, why did you oh, like,here's a quote from this person
that backed it, and those kindof things I think you get more
(22:18):
mileage out of.
So the biggest things thatsurprised me were probably the
consistency and you're forced tokind of come up with new and
creative ways, and thatsurprised me too because I think
when I started out, I thought itwas like you just do A, B, and C
and then you repeat it.
And no, A, B, and C is yourlaunching pad.
You expand to D, E, and F, andyou keep maybe A and C, and B
(22:44):
doesn't really help, and maybeyou let that go, and that's
fine, but you kind of like ithas to evolve.
I think it has to evolve as itgoes, unless you have one huge
person that just tweets about itonce, and then you get a million
people to put in money.
Like, that's I just don't havethat, right?
Like, I don't and I don't have arich uncle or anything.
So for me, it's really likereally grassroots.
(23:05):
Like you get out there and youspread the message and find
different ways, and you justkeep you know, every dollar in
is a one less dollar.
That needs to get in.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Um that's fabulous.
I think having uh testimoniesfrom investors is brilliant
because who doesn't want to bean investor in a film?
A lot of us do, but we'reafraid.
Will this film make money?
Am I going to lose?
Who are you?
(23:33):
And do I trust you?
All of that.
Um, I think that's a brilliantmove.
So congratulations.
That's unique.
But let me ask you, if you werestarting this raise again today,
what would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Oh, God, how much time do you have?
This podcast just turned into aneight-hour session.
Uh no, um, yeah, I I hope youguys packed a lunch for this.
Uh I think it's okay.
So it really, if it was to startagain, I think for me that I
would start audience buildingearlier, you're like earlier.
I mean like like months earlier.
(24:11):
There's always there's always atendency to procrastinate when
you have something in front ofyou that you're fearful and it's
the unknown.
So you have to give yourself atimeline, in my opinion.
So I say build an audienceearlier, months earlier, but
give it a deadline.
I'm building an audience forthree to four months before I
take this out there.
(24:32):
And by that I mean like build astronger email list in advance,
lock in more as manypartnerships as you can before
launch, schedule more contentand updates ahead of time.
If you're gonna be building out,it's a double-edged sword.
If you're gonna be building outTwitter, Instagram, or whatever,
you need to be consistent soit's not somebody goes to it and
(24:53):
there's five posts and twopeople liked it.
You need to build out thataudience with like organic
content from the start.
I I would almost rather chooseone angle and just put all the
energy into that.
So when you are tweetingsomething, it then comes from an
organic place, and then also,oh, here's this other thing
that's part of my onlinepresence or my brand, and then
(25:16):
people are gravitate towardsthat.
But it when it's all said anddone, momentum at the launch is
literally everything.
If you build an audience earlierof those three months or however
long you're gonna give yourself,that is a huge launch pad that
springboards you into thebeginning of what is hopefully a
successful campaign.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Well done.
Well, that's what they'recalling now a creator content.
You're building, you build youraudience, then you create for
your audience.
So would that mean that youmight want to continue uh with
some similar films for thisaudience?
(25:59):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Yeah, and I think uh well for me, I started as an
actor, so for me, it's alwayslike the brand that's me, and
then I very I think just veryearly defined, like I'm going to
make movies that I think havesome intrinsic value, and they
speak to somebody out there,like regardless of what it is.
(26:24):
I think my characters alwaystend to be outsiders, the people
that are on the outside lookingin and finding acceptance
through a story.
If that's the first one was anLGBTQ drama, the second one was
a science fiction love story,this is a crime comedy, but
there's always something inthere that's like a personal
message.
(26:44):
So for me, it's always gonna bealong that those lines.
And so that's like the long-termthing that I think I'm building
out, is just you're always gonnaget, no matter what the film is,
this audience hopefully is gonnabe a repeat audience, and what
they're gonna get from me isgoing to be a quality as far as
(27:06):
production, high productionquality, well-told story made
for a fraction of what a studiobudget would be.
And they're gonna be like, I wasa part of that, they're gonna be
excited to see the next thingbecause if they like it or hate
the genre, it's gonna be awell-received film and it's
gonna be a well-executed filmand a good story.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
Right.
Okay, so now tell us what does agreat weekly investor update
look like, and this also leadsto why consistency is so
important, and so it tell usthis great and weekly investor
update.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
I think uh it's I think it's consistency again.
I will look what I I thinkconsistency builds trust.
So you have somebody that camein on week one, and now you're
on week like 65.
I don't know, well, you're sixmonths in, and they're likely to
double down on what they havebecause they're getting weekly
updates.
So it almost is less about Imean, this it might sound bad,
(28:09):
but it's less about the contentand more about being consistent.
So it's short, it's positive,it's specific.
It's something like a newmilestone, a new partner.
Uh, a testimonial is always easybecause if you get one person
in, they're excited and they'rewilling to give you a quote, uh,
a behind-the-scenes look at theprocess, which can be so loose.
(28:29):
Like, here's me and my co-writermeeting at Starbucks to go over
notes, uh, you know, and it'slike a picture.
Or it depends how, you know,obviously professional you want
to take it.
But I think you just don't thinklike, oh no, I don't have
anything to update.
It's all it's short, positive,specific.
It's this thing that this newangle that we're taking.
(28:49):
We're like, I'm working with thebrand partnership company, is
like part, you know, that's wesigned the deal last Thursday
night at like 11 p.m.
I signed it and returned tothem.
So let's let's roll on that.
So it's really the consistencythis builds trust.
So it even if the news is small,regular updates remind people
the project is alive, theproject is moving forward, they
stay excited, they stayinvested, they want to see it do
(29:12):
well.
So it I at first I was like, oh,I have to do a weekly update,
and now it's like, dude, it'syou know, this is what I've been
doing this week.
I literally spend hours a day,every day, chomping of the bit.
So there's always something toinvest to update people.
But I just go every Wednesday,it's in my calendar.
Every Wednesday, do an update,just let them know what's going
(29:34):
on, let them know where we'reheaded.
SPEAKER_02 (29:36):
Good.
I think that's really important.
Now, what would you say tofilmmakers who feel intimidated
or are really resistant tofundraising?
Because I deal with a lot ofthose daily, Mark, and they all
say, Oh, I just can't raisemoney, they they have blocked
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Yeah, I uh it's gosh.
I feel like can't is the wrongword.
I think that when you're honestabout it, it's won't because
nobody everybody can, nobodywants to.
The number of people that livein LA that are writers,
directors, actors that aredying, all they want to do is
(30:18):
sit and talk about how much theywant work, but they won't go do
the hard work to do it.
I think I think, yeah.
I also think like filmmakersprobably are I I've seen it time
and time again, in my opinion,with people I've talked to,
where they're just intimidatedby it because maybe it's like
the numbers seems so large, andlike that what if you fail, and
(30:40):
it's kind of like like at somepoint you realize if you don't
advocate for your film, no oneelse will.
If you don't advocate for yourcareer, no one else will.
So you kind of have to frame itlike fundraising isn't about
begging, and that's really hardto remember.
But if you frame it in yourmind, it's like one of those
thousand lies you tell yourself.
(31:01):
It's about inviting people intosomething you believe in, and
that's not a lie, that's true.
I believe in this thing, you'reinvited to come and participate
and be on board.
If somebody the the other bigthing to remember, I feel like
is what I do is up to me.
I reach out to you and say, I'mdoing this thing.
(31:22):
Will you participate?
We're trying to hit this numbertoday.
What that person's reaction, ifthey curse you out or they yell
at you, or they're rude to you,that's on them.
Their response to your ask is onthem.
That's not your fault, that'sthem reacting in their own way.
(31:44):
It has nothing to do with you.
So if you're attacked bysomebody, you have to remember.
I think that was a big fear atfirst.
It's like, what if you kind ofwhat if somebody like says
something to me and it's likethat's that's on them, right?
There's there's many people outthere that are willing to be
excited and happy for you andsay yes that they're artists say
no.
You just have to find them.
(32:04):
Um, I think that, and then Ithink the more I talk to people,
you know, they would say, like,oh, that's so hard.
It's like so much rejection.
And they just say it's so hard,I could never do it, like what
you had just said.
And I kind of realized at somepoint, and I do think this is
really super important.
It's like the hardest part issaying yes to myself.
(32:25):
Deciding to fundraise for thefilm is the hardest decision.
After you say, I'm going to dothis, every other decision is
not as hard.
Every no will eventually lead toa yes.
And again, like I've made thehardest decision.
I said yes to this journey.
So to me, the hardest part isthe hardest decision you have is
just saying yes to the project.
(32:46):
Because once you say yes, thenyou're gonna go, I'm gonna make
this movie no matter how much Iraise.
And then you hit a milestone,and maybe you hit your goal, and
maybe you don't.
And then you go, well, now thatthis is our budget, I can make
it with this, and we shift thesethings, and you are just saying
yes to the journey, and it'salways about adjusting, it's
never about no, I failed.
It's always just you have toadvocate for your film and for
(33:09):
yourself, and you have to createyour career in the way you want
to create art.
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Brilliant! And I think that the energy in the
word inviting is a heck of a lotbetter than asking for money.
A lot of people because you'rehaving a lot of fun making a
film.
You want to join me and you'llbe part of this film.
I think that's it.
Uh, moving from the ask to theinvite.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Uh oh big, it's huge.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
Yeah, it's huge, right?
So, what's next for Could We BeHeroes?
The film, once the raise iscomplete.
What's next?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
So, for us, I think we'll have a short ramp up with
pre-production.
Um, but we'll be moving in.
There's a couple things, is likewe are gonna we have to lock the
rest of the raise, we'll moveinto production pretty quickly.
We're gonna finalize the rest ofour cast.
And then I think at that pointwe're gonna lock in our
distribution strategy.
We have a sales agent already onboard, but there's also
(34:12):
distribution companies that arelooking at it.
So I want that to be locked in.
Um, I'm not afraid to go tocamera without distribution
because I know the end goal isgonna be a bigger value than
what the budget is.
Like this is gonna end uplooking like a lot more than
what the budget actually is.
Um, and then locking in thecorporate partners.
(34:33):
So I think production,finalizing cast, locking locking
in distribution, locking in thecorporate partners.
To me, I think those are thevery next things.
Um really the goal for me is totake the momentum that we've
built with these investors andturn it into momentum for the
actual release.
So the audience is already therewhen the film comes out.
(34:55):
They're along for the ride, theyknow it's in post.
It's again the weekly updates,like they're aware, they're
excited for it.
When it comes out, you'vealready got that audience there,
plus whatever audience that youbuilt before you even launched.
Um, and then obviously it'smaking the film look amazing,
going into post and thenaligning with whatever branding
(35:17):
companies you have out there totry and do some sort of a
release.
There, there's so much moreopportunity than there used to
be that you have to thinkoutside the box.
Like for me, I'm like, what ifwe don't have a distribution
company that tends to want torip off filmmakers?
What if you do go too directlyto acquisitions with a streamer?
What if you have a brand partnerthat really believes in the
(35:39):
project and not only backs itwith money, but you say, well,
what if we release like ours isa gaming thing.
So, like, what if we debut ourtrailer on Twitch?
Or what's like you how do youaccess your audience and double
down on the people that dobelieve in you?
Like, what's the opportunitythere?
So I think that's like a reallylong-winded answer, but yeah,
(36:03):
once the raise is complete,we're gonna, you know, go into
production, lock the cast, lockdistribution, lock corporate
partners.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
Okay, so tell us uh at this moment, how far are you
along with how much time is leftin your race and how close are
you to your to your number?
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Uh we have our race ends April 30th.
So we've got space little lessthan three months left.
Um, we're about$220,000 awayfrom our actual raise.
Our stretch goal was alreadyposted on there, so um, the
(36:49):
stretch goal is amazing,obviously, but we really are
about 220k away from beingcomplete and going into
production as best we can withit, um, and then get through
post.
So, yeah, we've got three lessthan three months and 220k to
go.
SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
And so then after that, you still have to raise
money for post.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Well, we have post a couple post deals that are not
locked, but that are in placethat are gonna help um get us
through.
So that number we will weshouldn't have to raise money
for post unless somethingcatastrophic happens.
Um, and you know, somethingalways does.
But no, I think with the withthe number that we're raising
(37:30):
right now, that'll get usthrough production through post,
and then um we'll reassess oncewe hit the festival circuit.
Um and see, you know, if there'sprobably additional fees that
might have to come up for uhwhatever the distribution deal
might be, or you know, there'salways there's always something,
(37:53):
but that number should keep uswhole through through the rest
of the way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Okay.
Well, just uh one last question.
Do you see equity crowdfundingas a one-time strategy, or do
you see it as part of along-term slate model?
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Um this is yeah, so okay, I I see it as part of a
long-term model, but only if youcommit to it, in my opinion.
If you build trust withinvestors on one project, I
think that they're more likelyto come back for the next one.
And they're excited about thejourney, they tend to invest in
(38:34):
you, the person, as much as theproject.
And I think over time you're notjust raising money, like you're
building a community thatsupports what hopefully is a
whole slate of films.
I'm very like upfront andtransparent about that from the
start.
Is this isn't one thing.
I'm building like a scope ofprojects.
(38:55):
I've got a pipeline of a coupleother things I'm working on.
And I think that that for higherlevel investors, I think that
that's like important to themthat they're not just doing like
a one and done thing.
You know, if you have smallerpeople in like a community or an
audience that don't care, theyjust think this is fun and they
want to see it, and that'sgreat.
But for me, I think also if youlook at it like it's more than
(39:19):
just a one-time thing, there's alot of prosperity you can have,
especially once you get throughthe process once and it's less
daunting.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
Absolutely.
Well, good luck with your film.
We could be heroes.
We all want to know how thingswork out, so you have to keep us
involved too.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
I'm happy to.
SPEAKER_02 (39:39):
Okay.
So thank you because this hasbeen truly valuable information.
Um, what I intend for filmmakersto hear is that funding your
film doesn't have to follow asingle traditional path.
Platforms like WeFunder areopening doors for filmmakers who
are willing to thinkstrategically and communicate
(40:01):
clearly and build genuinerelationships with their
audiences.
This is the new concept, thecreative content.
Creating content for youraudience.
So, to our listeners, if you'reexploring new ways to finance
your film, whether throughcrowdfunding, equity grants, or
(40:23):
community-based funding,education is your most powerful
tool.
And it from the HeartProduction, our mission is to
help filmmakers make informeddecisions, avoid costly
mistakes, and to buildsustainable careers during this
unusual time in the film worldbecause you want to be in the
(40:44):
film industry.
This is what you love.
You were born to do this, so youreally need to join us weekly on
our podcasts and read all of theclasses, the free information we
have on our website, becausethey're there to keep you
learning and building youraudience and moving your films
forward one smart step at atime.
(41:08):
Because we believe that you arethe magic.
Hollywood needs you.
You're the creators.
Thanks for joining us.
What happens when filmmakers stop asking for
donations and start invitingaudiences to become investors?
Today's episode gives you afront row look.
SPEAKER_01 (01:29):
From the Hard Productions helps independent
filmmakers understand not justhow to make great films, but how
to fund them intelligently andsustainably in today's rapidly
evolving landscape.
One of the biggest shifts we'reseeing right now is filmmakers
(01:49):
stepping into the role ofentrepreneur, learning how to
invite audiences not just towatch their films, but to
participate in bringing them tolife.
Today's guest is a great exampleof that shift.
I'm delighted to welcome MarkElias, a Los Angeles-based
(02:12):
writer, actor, and independentfilmmaker whose work focuses on
grounded commercial indie filmsand with bold concepts and
strong character work.
Mark is the producer of We CouldBe Heroes, a comedy crime heist
(02:33):
rooted in gaming culture.
And he's currently raising fundsfor the film through We Funder,
an equity crowdfunding platformthat allows the public to invest
in independent projects andfollow their journey from
campaign to production.
(02:53):
What we find exciting aboutMark's approach is that he's not
just raising money, he'sbuilding an audience-first
ecosystem around his film,blending storytelling, business
strategy, and transparency in away more filmmakers need to
(03:13):
understand.
And Carol, you've beenrecommending WeFunder to
filmmakers lately, haven't you?
SPEAKER_02 (03:20):
Yes, I have, Claire, because I really think it's an
important platform forfilmmakers to understand, and
especially those interested inequity crowdfunding.
Thank you, Mark, for joining us.
SPEAKER_00 (03:32):
Thank you both for having me on the show today.
SPEAKER_02 (03:35):
Good.
Well, uh, we want to start withwhat made you choose WeFunder
and equity crowdfunding insteadof Kickstarter or traditional
investors.
SPEAKER_00 (03:47):
Well, I had the first two films I made, I used
Kickstarter and Indiegogo, andthey are strictly
donation-based.
And we raised a decent amount,well, a decent amount,
depending, I guess, on what youthink a decent amount is.
They were both both budgets wereabout$50,000.
Um, and so for this one, I thinkwith Wii Funder, I liked the
(04:09):
idea that people weren't justdonating, they were actually
investing.
Um, I think you you know, likewith Kickstarter, once the
campaign ends, the relationshipkind of ends too.
But with Wii Funder, investorsstay connected to the film's
journey, and there's a biggerincentive to be involved.
And you get, I think, peoplethat are looking at it from a
(04:30):
different scope.
Um, I think also traditionalinvestors be are just harder and
harder to access if you're notalready sort of in that system.
So the thing about Wii Funderthat I really liked was it lets
you open the door to people whobelieve in the story and they
want to be a part of itfinancially and creatively.
So, you know, I think once youare able to tap into an
(04:54):
audience, it's a great way toget them there.
And the platform itself is sortof um, I think for a lack of a
better term, like it legitimizesyou if you just reaching out to
people online.
A lot of times they might belike, This is fake, you know.
But with you know, WeFunder, youhave a platform, they can go,
they can check it out, and yououtline all the perks and stuff
(05:18):
similar to the Kickstarters, butagain, it's equity-based, so
it's a different kind ofparticipation on their end.
SPEAKER_02 (05:25):
Well, tell us how you positioned your film.
Could we be heroes?
So people didn't just don't justwant to watch the film, but they
want to invest in it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:37):
Yeah, so I think what's really helped and worked
so far, I think for me, is I tryto treat it less like a movie
pitch and more like a startup.
Um, We Could Be Heroes is kindof this, it's a commercial uh
sort of a crime, a comedy crimestory about this gamer girl
whose console is mysteriouslystolen.
(05:59):
So it has these like commercialhooks to it.
It has like a huge worldwideaudience in the gaming
community.
It's fast, it's witty, it'sirreverent.
Um for an indie film, it's likereally, I think, just very
unique and has a youthful voiceto it.
And that really helps for me toget an idea of who would be not
(06:23):
just the audience, but who wouldbe a backer for it.
So I have an idea of what myaudience looks like, and
treating it like a startup, I'mbasically not even just saying
here's the story, but you'reable to focus on who the
audience is, you why it'scommercially viable, and you
know, we have the gamer angle,and it's exciting and fast and
(06:46):
irreverent, and then what thebudget strategy is is another
kind of angle that you have totake, I think, from a business
standpoint, and then howinvestors participate in the
upside.
So I think at the end of theday, you treat it like a
startup.
People want to invest when theyfeel like there's a real plan,
not just a script and afilmmaker's dream, because I
(07:09):
don't want to say it's naive,but I think to the outside world
and people that are looking atit, they might see that as
naive.
But when you approach it with abusiness plan and a startup
mentality, that's a languagethat a lot of investors speak
and understand.
And I think that they connectwith that, and you're starting
from a strong ground zerowhenever you get on a call with
(07:31):
them.
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
Well, so in other words, uh, what did you need to
have in place before launching?
Like, did you have a deck or alookbook or a pitch video?
Had did you put your teamtogether?
Did you have your lawyerattached?
Things like that.
Share that information, please.
SPEAKER_00 (07:53):
Well, at the very minimum, I mean, the first thing
that you need with WeFunder isyou need 50 grand uh and a uh
what's called a lead investor.
So you get somebody, and theydon't have to be the person
putting in the 50 grand, butgenerally it's the easiest if
you get one person to put in 50and they'll say, I'm the lead
(08:14):
investor, and they it's a cooltitle, nothing really is
attached to that except thatthey would disperse information.
So if you have, let's say youhave 5,000 people to back the
project, your lead investor isthe one that sort of disperses
information to those 5,000people, um, you know, unless
(08:34):
unless you're not keeping themupdated.
So generally you need that$50,000 to get started.
But beyond that, there's acouple things that I think are
really helpful, and there'sdifferent reasons for each one.
I think you you need a strongpitch deck, you just have to
have that because that's thebasis and the backbone for
everything.
And if you ask me, that pitchdeck has to align with the
(08:57):
branding of the film.
It has to align with thebranding of the film that you
have on the WeFunder page.
You're probably gonna want awebsite, and that website needs
to align with the brandingthat's in the pitch deck.
So, like from a 30,000-footview, you need the branding,
which has to be obviously inline with the script and the
(09:17):
vibe of the film.
But the pitch deck is whatpeople are gonna be able to
download online.
The pitch deck is what I cansend to investors outside of
WeFunder.
In some cases, they say, like, Idon't necessarily want to do
WeFunder because of the 7% thatthey take.
And then I have subscriptionagreements with the LLC.
So there's it's it's it's theirchoice, but the pitch deck is
(09:39):
always your selling point.
Um, and then you know, that alsoI learned that you know, you
build a business plan becausepeople are like, you need a
business plan, nobody reads abusiness plan.
They're 30 pages long, nobodyreads it.
They want a pitch deck thatsays, what is the movie, what's
it about, what are the terms,what is the timeline, what's the
when do I start seeing my moneyback, and like what's the
(10:01):
distribution plan?
Uh, and then piggybacking off ofthat, you need uh you need a
clear financial structure.
You need to be able to say, Thisis these are the terms, this is
how the waterfall money works,this is how you know, basically
also a budget.
Like, you need to be able tosay, like, this is where all the
money's gonna go because they'regonna want to see that you're
(10:21):
not just looking for money anddon't know what you're doing
with it.
Um, you need a legal entity, soyou need an LLC because the Wii
Funder is tied to that.
Um, most likely, if you don'thave one already, you're going
to need a teaser or a pitchvideo that's specific to Wii
Funder because you want to getpeople excited about it in a way
(10:43):
that you guide them through thesteps of how to donate versus
just like here's a cool teaserof the movie that I want to make
that's in my head.
Uh and then I think the lastthing, and this always depends
on the film and the filmmakerthemselves, but a basic team
around the project really helps.
I you can never count on otherpeople to do the fundraising for
(11:05):
you because it just seems likethat's just not gonna work.
It's always about your hustle,especially if you're the person
who write it, it writes it andyou're producing it.
But I have two or threeproducers that I lean on that I
go for advice when I get on acall, you know, because people
find you through the WeFunderand then you get pitched all
(11:25):
kinds of stuff, and you need tovet what is actually here and
who's just trying to piggybackoff of somebody else's project
and make some money so that teamcan be helpful in more ways than
one.
Hopefully, they help with theoutreach too.
Um, I don't think you needeverything locked before you
launch, but you really needenough to show it's not just an
(11:46):
idea, it's a project that'sactually moving forward.
It goes back to treating it likea business.
You got to put your business haton and think like this needs to
be something I need to sustainthrough the production and
beyond to stay connected with myinvestors.
So for me, I think that youreally need a strong pitch deck,
a clear financial structure, youneed your legal entity, um, you
(12:09):
need the pitch video, anddefinitely don't just do it
once, work on it, and then abasic team around the project
that you know are gonna help andsupport in different ways that
maybe are your weaknesses.
SPEAKER_02 (12:22):
Okay, so you talked about how important the pitch
deck was, plus branding.
Can you just hired a brandingcompany?
Tell us who that is and why.
What do you think they're goingto do for you?
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
So I one thing that, and this is kind of a long
journey.
We, my team and I basically uhwe've decided that I think you
get pitched so many things wherethere's a company that can do
something, and then you know,they're like, but we want
upfront fee, like there's anupfront fee to go do this, and
(12:58):
then for me, the their biggestsign, warning sign from here on
out is like if a company comesto you and says they can do
something, but they need moneyup front, I generally become
very skeptical, and that's whereyou can lean on a lawyer or
somebody, like one of myinvestors is very business and
financial minded, and I go tohim and he's like, This does not
(13:21):
check out.
So I would just say, like, as ageneral flag across anything,
when somebody comes, whenthere's a company that finds out
that you have money and areraising money, they will always
if they why if they try and getmoney up front, I think that you
either tell them they're notgetting paid up front, and then
you they usually get mad aboutthat, and then you're like,
(13:42):
that's grounds to walk becauseit's not or or it should be tied
to performance.
You have to you have to feel itout for yourself.
But that's one of the biggestlessons I've learned in this so
far.
Um, the company that I amworking with now is called
Branded Streams, and I had agreat conversation with them
from the start.
They're super upfront andtransparent, and just getting on
(14:04):
a Zoom and talking to somebodyand seeing their face and
feeling out whether or not thisis somebody that you
essentially, in business terms,want to get in bed with for the
duration of a project.
Um, they were very upfront aboutlike what it is they do.
They take the script, um, theybasically put it through a
process where it's like, hereare the different scenes in the
(14:25):
movie where there is potentialfor branding, and then it breaks
down each one, what's happeningin the scene and what the
opportunity is.
So I so far it's very early onin the process with them.
I just signed on with them aweek ago Thursday, but they've
already started putting thepieces in motion where they will
go to the brands, they will goto the companies that they have
(14:48):
access to and say, like, here'sa movie, this actor so-and-so is
involved with it.
It's it's got this gaming angle,it's super fast and witty and
fun, and it's commercial, it'syou know, you know, there's if a
gaming company gets tied to anesports company gets tied to it,
there's tons of eyeballsinvolved in that.
Like we're I've talked to threeor four global esports
(15:10):
companies, and if we're able topartner with them and we release
in conjunction with them, we'retied to their marketing.
They're all the eyeballs thatthey have, the audience that
they have gets access to, youknow, maybe like a premier to
the trailer of the movie, andand it just opens up a lot of
opportunity for us.
So the branding, there's it inthis case, there's a strong
(15:32):
opportunity for branding.
I wouldn't say that there'salways that.
If you're making, you know, Iand I love and I'm writing right
now with like a slow-paced indiedrama that's like a slice of
life, and there's probably a lotless sort of uh excitement or
like opportunity for like somereally bang bang product
(15:53):
placement.
Whereas the you know, there'sthat for this.
This opportunity has this filmhas that opportunity in a big
way.
So I felt I felt like that was aleap that this thing needed to
take.
SPEAKER_02 (16:04):
Um this is marvelous.
So this branding company isreading your script and looking
for places like in the kitchenwhen someone opened a cabinet.
What's in the cabinet, right?
That's branding, somethingthat's simple, or a car drives
up and the the DP captures theinsignia of the manufacturer of
(16:25):
the car.
So they're working for you, uh,identifying areas of branding in
your script.
So then will they go direct tothe car company or the product
placement people and ask forthem to uh support your film?
SPEAKER_00 (16:44):
Yeah, so like I can tell you right now, like there's
one scene in the movie where theour our heroes go to like save
the day, and the getaway driveruh is sitting in his car uh and
he's and and and and they'recalling him like SOS, come ready
to get pick us up, but he'ssitting there eating a burger
(17:04):
and fries and completely missesthe fact that they're calling
for help um in kind of this justyou know comedic nothing can go
right kind of way.
And I and I told them likethat's like prime real estate.
You have to think of it fromlike the brand's perspective,
like that's like literallyfeatured on screen in the scene,
the guy is doing nothing buteating your hamburger, like
(17:28):
McDonald's or whoever BurgerKing, any of them, Carl Jr., if
you want that, that's like primereal estate in the movie.
So, from their perspective,there's value in that.
So they'll go to those fast foodcompanies.
Um, or you know, in the sceneswhere they're gaming in the cool
gaming layer that thesecharacters have, there's
(17:49):
opportunity for like whateverbrand that wants to be aligned
with snacks or energy drinkswant us to be aligned with
gamers.
Those are opportunities there tobe seen organically in this
film, and they go to thosecompanies and say, Hey, here's
here's this project.
There's already fundinginvolved, they have this actor
involved, and then they'll comeback and say, Either, you know,
(18:11):
these this company is willing togive you like food for the set,
or like they'll they'll back Xamount of money for this
opportunity in your movie.
So there's levels to, and we'revery early on in this process,
and the company is fairly new,but this is they've been
transparent with thecommunication about how they
work so far, so we'll see how itgoes.
SPEAKER_02 (18:31):
But yeah, great.
That sounds wonderful.
Now tell us how how did youbuild momentum early in the
campaign and what converted bestemails, social posting, press,
partnerships, or just directoutreach?
SPEAKER_00 (18:50):
Oh boy.
Um I think for me, directoutreach by far is the most
important thing.
Like email and personal messagesconverted much better than
general social posts.
I think you post socially uhshare general messages to like
(19:14):
raise awareness, but then toclose the deals.
For me, it's always like directoutreach and follow-up.
I think kind of the biggestlesson, I think, for me at the
end of the day is like peopleinvest because of relationships,
not just content.
So like your content can be cooland it's fun, and like maybe you
hope to go viral with like somefun videos, but people get
(19:35):
excited about it and they likeretweet it or something, or
they're like, I liked yourvideo, and you're like, that's
cool, but that doesn't like thatdoesn't liking my video like
doesn't get convert.
So it's really about directoutreach, it's relationships,
it's just like going to theperson.
I I'm not a big phone callperson, maybe it's like a
(19:56):
generational thing, but likeit's been email, personal
messages, um, hitting somebodyup on social media and following
up.
So I would say like social mediahelps with the visibility, but
the real conversions closed mostof the investments, probably all
of the investments were justconversations.
SPEAKER_02 (20:16):
Because people give money to people, not to films,
Mark.
That's the point.
So your personal connection tothe film, your um confidence
when they talk to you and yourdetermination uh is is
contagious, and that makes themcross the barrier of trust and
(20:38):
likability and say, yes, here'syour money.
But what surprised you the mostonce the campaign went public?
SPEAKER_00 (20:48):
Once the campaign went public, I think what
surprised me the most was Ithink it's just how much
consistency matters.
Like you can't, I think I thinkfilmmakers just think, oh, I'll
just launch a campaign and likeit'll be live and people will
see it.
And I think that's an error thatI saw even with the first two
(21:11):
when I did Kickstarter andIndiegogo, is you can't just
launch and put it out there andthen hope like a crowd shows up.
Um, I think the consistencymeans consistent messaging.
I think it's a daily processwhere you do updates, outreach,
follow-ups, you try new angles,you do new content.
It's I I think honestly, it'smore like running a small
(21:34):
startup than running a filmcampaign because you're doing
the same thing a small startupwould do, and you have to frame
it in your mind that way.
Like there's a lot of littlelies.
I think you tell yourself athousand little lies throughout
the process.
And for this, for me, it wasdefinitely like look, this is it
can be fun.
You need to like come up withnew angles, and maybe it's like
(21:56):
a little snippet of likeinterview with a cast member, or
I started doing what I think iseffective is like little
testimonials from investors,doesn't matter how big of an
investor they are, or like howearly they backed it, it's like,
hey, why did you oh, like,here's a quote from this person
that backed it, and those kindof things I think you get more
(22:18):
mileage out of.
So the biggest things thatsurprised me were probably the
consistency and you're forced tokind of come up with new and
creative ways, and thatsurprised me too because I think
when I started out, I thought itwas like you just do A, B, and C
and then you repeat it.
And no, A, B, and C is yourlaunching pad.
You expand to D, E, and F, andyou keep maybe A and C, and B
(22:44):
doesn't really help, and maybeyou let that go, and that's
fine, but you kind of like ithas to evolve.
I think it has to evolve as itgoes, unless you have one huge
person that just tweets about itonce, and then you get a million
people to put in money.
Like, that's I just don't havethat, right?
Like, I don't and I don't have arich uncle or anything.
So for me, it's really likereally grassroots.
(23:05):
Like you get out there and youspread the message and find
different ways, and you justkeep you know, every dollar in
is a one less dollar.
That needs to get in.
SPEAKER_02 (23:13):
Um that's fabulous.
I think having uh testimoniesfrom investors is brilliant
because who doesn't want to bean investor in a film?
A lot of us do, but we'reafraid.
Will this film make money?
Am I going to lose?
Who are you?
(23:33):
And do I trust you?
All of that.
Um, I think that's a brilliantmove.
So congratulations.
That's unique.
But let me ask you, if you werestarting this raise again today,
what would you do differently?
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
Oh, God, how much time do you have?
This podcast just turned into aneight-hour session.
Uh no, um, yeah, I I hope youguys packed a lunch for this.
Uh I think it's okay.
So it really, if it was to startagain, I think for me that I
would start audience buildingearlier, you're like earlier.
I mean like like months earlier.
(24:11):
There's always there's always atendency to procrastinate when
you have something in front ofyou that you're fearful and it's
the unknown.
So you have to give yourself atimeline, in my opinion.
So I say build an audienceearlier, months earlier, but
give it a deadline.
I'm building an audience forthree to four months before I
take this out there.
(24:32):
And by that I mean like build astronger email list in advance,
lock in more as manypartnerships as you can before
launch, schedule more contentand updates ahead of time.
If you're gonna be building out,it's a double-edged sword.
If you're gonna be building outTwitter, Instagram, or whatever,
you need to be consistent soit's not somebody goes to it and
(24:53):
there's five posts and twopeople liked it.
You need to build out thataudience with like organic
content from the start.
I I would almost rather chooseone angle and just put all the
energy into that.
So when you are tweetingsomething, it then comes from an
organic place, and then also,oh, here's this other thing
that's part of my onlinepresence or my brand, and then
(25:16):
people are gravitate towardsthat.
But it when it's all said anddone, momentum at the launch is
literally everything.
If you build an audience earlierof those three months or however
long you're gonna give yourself,that is a huge launch pad that
springboards you into thebeginning of what is hopefully a
successful campaign.
SPEAKER_02 (25:38):
Well done.
Well, that's what they'recalling now a creator content.
You're building, you build youraudience, then you create for
your audience.
So would that mean that youmight want to continue uh with
some similar films for thisaudience?
(25:59):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_00 (26:01):
Yeah, and I think uh well for me, I started as an
actor, so for me, it's alwayslike the brand that's me, and
then I very I think just veryearly defined, like I'm going to
make movies that I think havesome intrinsic value, and they
speak to somebody out there,like regardless of what it is.
(26:24):
I think my characters alwaystend to be outsiders, the people
that are on the outside lookingin and finding acceptance
through a story.
If that's the first one was anLGBTQ drama, the second one was
a science fiction love story,this is a crime comedy, but
there's always something inthere that's like a personal
message.
(26:44):
So for me, it's always gonna bealong that those lines.
And so that's like the long-termthing that I think I'm building
out, is just you're always gonnaget, no matter what the film is,
this audience hopefully is gonnabe a repeat audience, and what
they're gonna get from me isgoing to be a quality as far as
(27:06):
production, high productionquality, well-told story made
for a fraction of what a studiobudget would be.
And they're gonna be like, I wasa part of that, they're gonna be
excited to see the next thingbecause if they like it or hate
the genre, it's gonna be awell-received film and it's
gonna be a well-executed filmand a good story.
SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
Right.
Okay, so now tell us what does agreat weekly investor update
look like, and this also leadsto why consistency is so
important, and so it tell usthis great and weekly investor
update.
SPEAKER_00 (27:44):
I think uh it's I think it's consistency again.
I will look what I I thinkconsistency builds trust.
So you have somebody that camein on week one, and now you're
on week like 65.
I don't know, well, you're sixmonths in, and they're likely to
double down on what they havebecause they're getting weekly
updates.
So it almost is less about Imean, this it might sound bad,
(28:09):
but it's less about the contentand more about being consistent.
So it's short, it's positive,it's specific.
It's something like a newmilestone, a new partner.
Uh, a testimonial is always easybecause if you get one person
in, they're excited and they'rewilling to give you a quote, uh,
a behind-the-scenes look at theprocess, which can be so loose.
(28:29):
Like, here's me and my co-writermeeting at Starbucks to go over
notes, uh, you know, and it'slike a picture.
Or it depends how, you know,obviously professional you want
to take it.
But I think you just don't thinklike, oh no, I don't have
anything to update.
It's all it's short, positive,specific.
It's this thing that this newangle that we're taking.
(28:49):
We're like, I'm working with thebrand partnership company, is
like part, you know, that's wesigned the deal last Thursday
night at like 11 p.m.
I signed it and returned tothem.
So let's let's roll on that.
So it's really the consistencythis builds trust.
So it even if the news is small,regular updates remind people
the project is alive, theproject is moving forward, they
stay excited, they stayinvested, they want to see it do
(29:12):
well.
So it I at first I was like, oh,I have to do a weekly update,
and now it's like, dude, it'syou know, this is what I've been
doing this week.
I literally spend hours a day,every day, chomping of the bit.
So there's always something toinvest to update people.
But I just go every Wednesday,it's in my calendar.
Every Wednesday, do an update,just let them know what's going
(29:34):
on, let them know where we'reheaded.
SPEAKER_02 (29:36):
Good.
I think that's really important.
Now, what would you say tofilmmakers who feel intimidated
or are really resistant tofundraising?
Because I deal with a lot ofthose daily, Mark, and they all
say, Oh, I just can't raisemoney, they they have blocked
themselves.
SPEAKER_00 (29:56):
Yeah, I uh it's gosh.
I feel like can't is the wrongword.
I think that when you're honestabout it, it's won't because
nobody everybody can, nobodywants to.
The number of people that livein LA that are writers,
directors, actors that aredying, all they want to do is
(30:18):
sit and talk about how much theywant work, but they won't go do
the hard work to do it.
I think I think, yeah.
I also think like filmmakersprobably are I I've seen it time
and time again, in my opinion,with people I've talked to,
where they're just intimidatedby it because maybe it's like
the numbers seems so large, andlike that what if you fail, and
(30:40):
it's kind of like like at somepoint you realize if you don't
advocate for your film, no oneelse will.
If you don't advocate for yourcareer, no one else will.
So you kind of have to frame itlike fundraising isn't about
begging, and that's really hardto remember.
But if you frame it in yourmind, it's like one of those
thousand lies you tell yourself.
(31:01):
It's about inviting people intosomething you believe in, and
that's not a lie, that's true.
I believe in this thing, you'reinvited to come and participate
and be on board.
If somebody the the other bigthing to remember, I feel like
is what I do is up to me.
I reach out to you and say, I'mdoing this thing.
(31:22):
Will you participate?
We're trying to hit this numbertoday.
What that person's reaction, ifthey curse you out or they yell
at you, or they're rude to you,that's on them.
Their response to your ask is onthem.
That's not your fault, that'sthem reacting in their own way.
(31:44):
It has nothing to do with you.
So if you're attacked bysomebody, you have to remember.
I think that was a big fear atfirst.
It's like, what if you kind ofwhat if somebody like says
something to me and it's likethat's that's on them, right?
There's there's many people outthere that are willing to be
excited and happy for you andsay yes that they're artists say
no.
You just have to find them.
(32:04):
Um, I think that, and then Ithink the more I talk to people,
you know, they would say, like,oh, that's so hard.
It's like so much rejection.
And they just say it's so hard,I could never do it, like what
you had just said.
And I kind of realized at somepoint, and I do think this is
really super important.
It's like the hardest part issaying yes to myself.
(32:25):
Deciding to fundraise for thefilm is the hardest decision.
After you say, I'm going to dothis, every other decision is
not as hard.
Every no will eventually lead toa yes.
And again, like I've made thehardest decision.
I said yes to this journey.
So to me, the hardest part isthe hardest decision you have is
just saying yes to the project.
(32:46):
Because once you say yes, thenyou're gonna go, I'm gonna make
this movie no matter how much Iraise.
And then you hit a milestone,and maybe you hit your goal, and
maybe you don't.
And then you go, well, now thatthis is our budget, I can make
it with this, and we shift thesethings, and you are just saying
yes to the journey, and it'salways about adjusting, it's
never about no, I failed.
It's always just you have toadvocate for your film and for
(33:09):
yourself, and you have to createyour career in the way you want
to create art.
SPEAKER_02 (33:13):
Brilliant! And I think that the energy in the
word inviting is a heck of a lotbetter than asking for money.
A lot of people because you'rehaving a lot of fun making a
film.
You want to join me and you'llbe part of this film.
I think that's it.
Uh, moving from the ask to theinvite.
SPEAKER_00 (33:37):
Uh oh big, it's huge.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
Yeah, it's huge, right?
So, what's next for Could We BeHeroes?
The film, once the raise iscomplete.
What's next?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
So, for us, I think we'll have a short ramp up with
pre-production.
Um, but we'll be moving in.
There's a couple things, is likewe are gonna we have to lock the
rest of the raise, we'll moveinto production pretty quickly.
We're gonna finalize the rest ofour cast.
And then I think at that pointwe're gonna lock in our
distribution strategy.
We have a sales agent already onboard, but there's also
(34:12):
distribution companies that arelooking at it.
So I want that to be locked in.
Um, I'm not afraid to go tocamera without distribution
because I know the end goal isgonna be a bigger value than
what the budget is.
Like this is gonna end uplooking like a lot more than
what the budget actually is.
Um, and then locking in thecorporate partners.
(34:33):
So I think production,finalizing cast, locking locking
in distribution, locking in thecorporate partners.
To me, I think those are thevery next things.
Um really the goal for me is totake the momentum that we've
built with these investors andturn it into momentum for the
actual release.
So the audience is already therewhen the film comes out.
(34:55):
They're along for the ride, theyknow it's in post.
It's again the weekly updates,like they're aware, they're
excited for it.
When it comes out, you'vealready got that audience there,
plus whatever audience that youbuilt before you even launched.
Um, and then obviously it'smaking the film look amazing,
going into post and thenaligning with whatever branding
(35:17):
companies you have out there totry and do some sort of a
release.
There, there's so much moreopportunity than there used to
be that you have to thinkoutside the box.
Like for me, I'm like, what ifwe don't have a distribution
company that tends to want torip off filmmakers?
What if you do go too directlyto acquisitions with a streamer?
What if you have a brand partnerthat really believes in the
(35:39):
project and not only backs itwith money, but you say, well,
what if we release like ours isa gaming thing.
So, like, what if we debut ourtrailer on Twitch?
Or what's like you how do youaccess your audience and double
down on the people that dobelieve in you?
Like, what's the opportunitythere?
So I think that's like a reallylong-winded answer, but yeah,
(36:03):
once the raise is complete,we're gonna, you know, go into
production, lock the cast, lockdistribution, lock corporate
partners.
SPEAKER_02 (36:10):
Okay, so tell us uh at this moment, how far are you
along with how much time is leftin your race and how close are
you to your to your number?
SPEAKER_00 (36:26):
Uh we have our race ends April 30th.
So we've got space little lessthan three months left.
Um, we're about$220,000 awayfrom our actual raise.
Our stretch goal was alreadyposted on there, so um, the
(36:49):
stretch goal is amazing,obviously, but we really are
about 220k away from beingcomplete and going into
production as best we can withit, um, and then get through
post.
So, yeah, we've got three lessthan three months and 220k to
go.
SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
And so then after that, you still have to raise
money for post.
SPEAKER_00 (37:10):
Well, we have post a couple post deals that are not
locked, but that are in placethat are gonna help um get us
through.
So that number we will weshouldn't have to raise money
for post unless somethingcatastrophic happens.
Um, and you know, somethingalways does.
But no, I think with the withthe number that we're raising
(37:30):
right now, that'll get usthrough production through post,
and then um we'll reassess oncewe hit the festival circuit.
Um and see, you know, if there'sprobably additional fees that
might have to come up for uhwhatever the distribution deal
might be, or you know, there'salways there's always something,
(37:53):
but that number should keep uswhole through through the rest
of the way.
SPEAKER_02 (37:57):
Okay.
Well, just uh one last question.
Do you see equity crowdfundingas a one-time strategy, or do
you see it as part of along-term slate model?
SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Um this is yeah, so okay, I I see it as part of a
long-term model, but only if youcommit to it, in my opinion.
If you build trust withinvestors on one project, I
think that they're more likelyto come back for the next one.
And they're excited about thejourney, they tend to invest in
(38:34):
you, the person, as much as theproject.
And I think over time you're notjust raising money, like you're
building a community thatsupports what hopefully is a
whole slate of films.
I'm very like upfront andtransparent about that from the
start.
Is this isn't one thing.
I'm building like a scope ofprojects.
(38:55):
I've got a pipeline of a coupleother things I'm working on.
And I think that that for higherlevel investors, I think that
that's like important to themthat they're not just doing like
a one and done thing.
You know, if you have smallerpeople in like a community or an
audience that don't care, theyjust think this is fun and they
want to see it, and that'sgreat.
But for me, I think also if youlook at it like it's more than
(39:19):
just a one-time thing, there's alot of prosperity you can have,
especially once you get throughthe process once and it's less
daunting.
SPEAKER_02 (39:26):
Absolutely.
Well, good luck with your film.
We could be heroes.
We all want to know how thingswork out, so you have to keep us
involved too.
SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
I'm happy to.
SPEAKER_02 (39:39):
Okay.
So thank you because this hasbeen truly valuable information.
Um, what I intend for filmmakersto hear is that funding your
film doesn't have to follow asingle traditional path.
Platforms like WeFunder areopening doors for filmmakers who
are willing to thinkstrategically and communicate
(40:01):
clearly and build genuinerelationships with their
audiences.
This is the new concept, thecreative content.
Creating content for youraudience.
So, to our listeners, if you'reexploring new ways to finance
your film, whether throughcrowdfunding, equity grants, or
(40:23):
community-based funding,education is your most powerful
tool.
And it from the HeartProduction, our mission is to
help filmmakers make informeddecisions, avoid costly
mistakes, and to buildsustainable careers during this
unusual time in the film worldbecause you want to be in the
(40:44):
film industry.
This is what you love.
You were born to do this, so youreally need to join us weekly on
our podcasts and read all of theclasses, the free information we
have on our website, becausethey're there to keep you
learning and building youraudience and moving your films
forward one smart step at atime.
(41:08):
Because we believe that you arethe magic.
Hollywood needs you.
You're the creators.
Thanks for joining us.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com