July 29, 2026 • 54 mins
What happens when a neighborhood asks for one dangerous street to be made safer—and discovers that the fight is really about power, money and who gets to shape the future of a city? Stay with us as filmmaker Ben Wolf reveals how he transformed that battle into his feature documentary directing debut, Changing Lanes.
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SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
What happens when a neighborhood asks for one
dangerous street to be madesafer and discovers that the
fight is really about power,money, and who gets to shape the
future of a city?
Stay with us, as filmmaker BenWolfe reveals how he transformed
that battle into his featureddocumentary, Directing Debut
(01:40):
Changing Lanes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
As mentioned before, Carol is the author of the
best-selling book, The Art ofFilm Funding, Alternative
Financing Concepts, and thefounder and president of From
the Heart Productions.
For more than 30 years, From theHeart has supported independent
filmmakers through the Roy W.
Dean grant, physicalsponsorship, education,
(02:17):
mentorship, and a communitydedicated to helping important
films reach the world.
Today's guest understandsdocumentary filmmaking from
nearly every side of the camera.
Ben Wolfe is a producer,director, and director of
photography whose cinematographyand producing credits include
(02:40):
the feature documentaries Noteby Note, Ride, Rise, Roar,
Loving Lamp Post, Oh Bit, TheHappy Film, and Keeper of Time.
Splitting his time betweenBrooklyn and Sicily, Ben is also
an avid cyclist.
(03:00):
His relationship with cycling,documentary storytelling, and
the streets of New York cametogether in his feature
documentary directing debut,Changing Lanes.
The film begins after the tragichit and run death of a beloved
teacher in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
(03:22):
His death helped ignite agrassroots movement to transform
the notoriously dangerousMcGuinness Boulevard from a
four-lane roadway into a saferstreet with a protected bicycle
lane.
Today we will discuss how Benmoved from cinematographer to
(03:44):
director, how he found andfinanced the story, how he
filmed a politically chargedcommunity conflict, and what
independent filmmakers can learnfrom creating an urgent
documentary close to home.
Ben, welcome to the Art of FilmFunding.
(04:04):
And now I'm delighted to turnthe conversation over to Carol
Dean.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Thank you, Claire.
And Ben, welcome.
We're delighted to have you withus.
You really have photographed andhelped produce an extraordinary
range of documentaries, butchanging lanes marks a
significant new chapter for youas a feature director for
documentaries.
(04:30):
So I'm especially interested inhow you recognize the larger
story inside of this localconflict and how your background
as a cinematographer helped youcapture the people, the
politics, and the changingemotions surrounding it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Well, thanks for having me.
Those are some really uh bigquestions you just you just came
up with there.
Um yeah, so just to give you alittle background about my
history, I um went to filmschool at Columbia University,
the graduate program in the late90s, and studied directing, and
(05:11):
that was more focused on onnarrative filmmaking that that
program.
And upon graduation, I uh wasn'treally getting hired to direct
narrative films or any filmsreally, as it's always a wake-up
call when you leave film school,and then you have to transition
(05:32):
into a career.
And um for a variety of reasons,I fell into cinematography.
That was a thing that I enjoyeddoing and and found I was
reasonably good at and and couldactually make a living doing it.
And subsequently, for the last25 or so years, that's mostly
(05:53):
what I've done is worked as acinematographer on all sorts of
projects, narrative films,documentary films, commercials.
But over time, documentarybecame sort of more meaningful
to me and and the kind of work Iwas most excited to be doing,
where the kind of work that Ifelt was actually making some
kind of positive difference inthe in the world.
(06:15):
And uh so for some time I'vewanted to, I still had this
dream of directing, but uh it'sdifficult, especially when
you're busy working on otherpeople's projects.
Um so really ironically, maybeit was only the when the
pandemic hit and suddenly my uhthe work I was doing for a
(06:37):
living pretty much dried up.
I finally had time.
And uh, and and so I tried tofigure out what is a what is a
documentary that I uh that wouldbe meaningful to me and also
achievable, um, you know, whichfor me as a person of relatively
modest means meant you know alocal story, but hopefully a
(06:59):
local story that had sort oflarger implications and uh sort
of a story that would be amicrocosm for bigger um issues.
Um and I guess what's beenreally wonderful is that that it
seems to have uh worked.
I seem to have maybe by instinctor luck found a very specific
(07:20):
local story of a particularstreet in Brooklyn that is a
compelling story on its own, butI think very clearly is a way
into talking about sort oflarger political problems that
that we're sort of facing in inour city and and our country.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Yes.
Uh well done.
I think Changing Lines is agreat film.
And you studied at Columbia.
That's a really difficult schoolto get into, Ben, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
I uh I don't know.
It may be, it may be, I don'tknow how difficult it is, and it
may be more difficult now thanit was at that time.
It's clear that there are many,many people that are interested
in studying film.
Um, in fact, some sometimes Iworry that there's more people.
I'm not sure that the jobs existor the roles exist that people
(08:13):
are are studying for, and that'sa that's sort of a frustration.
Um but that's another that'sanother conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
It is.
Well, Maureen Ryan, did youstudy with her in the
documentary?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
I know who she is, but I I didn't.
Um we had very little focus ondocumentary in at Columbia when
I was there.
Again, things may have changed,but it was very much focused
towards fiction filmmaking.
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
Um fiction filmmaking.
Oh, well, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
But I do I do I will say I I do think there's more
overlap than maybe people oftenthink.
And I have worked in both andcontinue to work in both.
And uh in either case, you'retelling stories, you know,
you're you're you're leading anaudience along, you're engaging
them.
Um things like I mean,technical, technical issues
(09:05):
about how you visualize a story,how you use a camera, um, but
also issues about characters andconflict, and many things are
are actually carry over, Ithink.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Wonderful.
That's really good forfilmmakers to hear.
Uh, so let's talk about goingfrom cinematographer to
director, because you've spentyears helping others translate
uh their directors translatetheir ideas into visual stories.
So, what made you decide thatChanging Lanes was the film that
(09:42):
you needed to direct?
Was there a particular momentwhen you realized that this is
my story and I can tell it?
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Right.
Well, I will say, for one thing,having um shot, I don't know,
maybe a dozen featuredocumentaries, and now being in
my 50s, I'm often working atthis point with younger
directors and and lessexperienced directors.
And and documentaries areusually a very small team.
It's you know, it's often maybefour or five people really
(10:13):
making the movie.
And so I often felt like I wassort of almost co-directing some
of these projects, which is funand it's exciting to be sort of
creatively engaged, but it'salso a bit frustrating for for
the ego because you, you know,I'm I'm doing the work and then
but then the whoever is thedirector gets all the credit.
(10:34):
So it so something for I I feltwhat I'm trying to say, I think
is I felt quite well prepared atthis point, having done this for
as long as I have, and and andalthough a cinematographer
technically is not a director,there there is a lot of overlap
and a lot of collaboration witha director, especially in the
heat of battle.
Like, what should we be shootingnow?
How should we shoot this?
(10:55):
The events happening right infront of us.
Often, you know, we have a quickconversation and then it it
happens.
Um when the time came and whereI had time to again to do my own
thing, I um as was mentioned,I've I've been um pretty
passionate about cycling for mywhole life.
(11:16):
I used to race bikes.
I've also I also want toemphasize I'm also a driver.
I have a car.
I you know, I feel like I don'twant to be seen as just one
thing, but but but cycling issomething I love and it's a
beautiful way to get around acity, um, especially when
there's you know some reasonableinfrastructure to make that
(11:36):
reasonably safe.
And in in New York, it's uh it'sbeen interesting that I came
here in 1991 and I've witnesseda lot of changes to the many of
our streets.
And what when I first came hereand would ride a bike around, it
was very much an outsideractivity and very unusual.
And I remember showing up atsome meetings like in the 90s
with a bike helmet and stuff,and people could not believe
(11:58):
that I rode my bike, you know,to get there.
Um nowadays it's prettymainstream.
I mean, we have a bike sharesystem, it's the biggest in the
country with hundreds ofthousands of people a day using
that system.
Um, so it's anyway, it's beenfun seeing something that I was
a part of become more and morepopular.
(12:18):
And the changes to the streethave also been, you know, often
exciting.
Like, wow, now I feel so, youknow, it does feel in many
places much safer and moreaccommodating than it used to.
However, it's been very uneven.
And uh and then during thepandemic, the streets got really
(12:40):
chaotic.
Like I felt like overall, in thetime I've been here, things were
getting better, but then duringthe pandemic, it just became
kind of the wild west.
And this also sort of coincidedwith the arrival of all the new
types of e-vehicles, e-bikes,e-scooters, um, some of which
are legal, many of which aren't,but nobody seems to be doing
(13:01):
anything about it, people goingall speeds, all directions.
And it anyway, it I thought,well, this is there's really
something here to explore.
And uh so I started looking fora particular story, and I was
shooting, you know, going to abunch of different meetings
about different streets anddifferent safety projects, and I
came to one particular meetingthat's featured in the film.
(13:24):
Um it was held in a uh private,a private business held this
meeting to discuss uh McGinnisBoulevard.
It was billed as a publicmeeting, but then they locked
the door and kept out the folksthat disagreed with with the
people you know organizing themeeting.
(13:44):
And uh it was so over the top, Ithought, okay, this is this is
really looks like a story that'sgoing to be interesting to
follow.
And um, that's sort of when Idecided, okay, this is probably
gonna be the focus of my film.
And and I followed, so Ifollowed that struggle for about
three years.
The struggle had really begun acouple years even before I I got
(14:05):
involved, when a when a teacherin the local school was killed
crossing the street on hisbirthday.
Um that sort of incited, or Idon't know, lit a fire, but in
to to to do something about thestreet, which had claimed many,
many lives over the years andinjured sort of countless
people.
Um but it it very much dividedthe community, like so many, so
(14:30):
many aspects of our politicsthese days.
Everything kind of divides intotwo sides that are completely
unwilling to compromise and justbutting heads.
And uh so I anyway, I thought,okay, this this might be the
sort of microcosm I've beenlooking for that that let a way
in to talk about um politics.
Um I live about five miles awayfrom from Greenpoint, which is
(14:52):
the community where this streetexists.
So it's it's not exactly mycommunity, but it was very
nearby and easy for me to comeand go.
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
Well, when you went to the meetings, did you
photograph the meetings?
And if so, how did you getapproval to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Yeah, well, it's a complicated question.
In general, I found that thatmeetings that are truly public,
um, you can bring a camera inmost cases.
Um sometimes it's better not toask.
And uh many of those publicmeetings I just photographed
with a phone because I didn't Ididn't want to be challenged.
(15:30):
Um and you know, uh a thing thathas that is that has changed
recently is that phone camerasare good enough for for often,
you know.
I used a variety of sorts ofcameras and devices in my film,
um, but many of the publicmeetings, it was it was often
(15:50):
just a phone because I again Ididn't want to draw attention to
myself.
I didn't, I just wanted tocapture what was going on.
It may not look quite as nice asas using bigger cameras, but
every everything is a trade-off,and and I sort of had to decide
on a case-by-case basis what'sthe what's the best way to to
capture what's going on herewithout you know interfering or
(16:11):
becoming a you know making analready heated situation even
more heated than it already was.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Absolutely.
No, Bobby Martis, anotherfilmmaker I love, says, I'd
rather I'd rather apologize thanto ask.
So you did the right thing, yougot the shot.
That's the main thing.
Did you get the shot?
Yes, you did.
That's for a documentaryfilmmaker, that's really
important.
That was so smart.
(16:38):
So finding the larger story,let's talk about that.
Because on the surface, this isa film about changing one
dangerous street, but underneaththat, it's about power, grief,
community, organizing, politics,and the future of our city.
So, how did you identify theuniversal story inside of such a
(17:02):
specific neighborhood conflict?
SPEAKER_00 (17:05):
Right.
Well, it's a somewhat organicprocess.
I mean, as I was following thisstory, I was reading a lot of
books on the subject of New Yorkinfrastructure, you know,
starting with the Great PowerBroker, the book that many
people know, the um about RobertMoses and his impact on the
design of New York City.
Um it became increasingincreasingly clear to me that to
(17:28):
tell this story well involvedgiving good context, good
historical context, andunderstanding how this street
fit in with, you know, how it'ssimilar or different from many
other streets in the city.
Um so sort of naturally Istarted um lining up interviews
(17:49):
with people that that could talkabout these things.
Um uh I guess the most centralor most important figure in the
movie is Jeanette Sodek Khan,who ran the transportation
department under MayorBloomberg, and uh is considered
sort of one of the titans in inthe in the history of the design
(18:11):
of New York.
I mean, Robert Moses is the onethat everybody talks about as
number one as far as reallyshape the city, but after him,
Jeanette Sodokan is probably thenext biggest person.
Um she did things like startedthe bike share system, she put
in most of the cyclinginfrastructure that we see in
the city.
She uh pedestrianized TimesSquare.
She did a bunch of things thatpeople said are not possible,
(18:33):
and she did them, and they'vebeen pretty widely celebrated.
Um, so anyway, that was animportant interview.
Sam Schwartz um rantransportation in the 80s under
Koch.
He was also an important personto talk about history.
Um and I guess the biggest sortof celebrity in the film is
(18:54):
David Byrne, the the singer thatpeople know from the talking
heads.
And um he, it turns out is alsoa big advocate of cycling.
And I thought he would be agreat voice for talking about
the history of the city becausehe's been here forever.
And also about how this our citycompares with other cities,
because when I worked on atouring film with him, I saw
(19:19):
that he and his band bring bikeswith them all over the world
where they perform and ridearound, you know, in the in the
mornings, I think to unwind, tosee a little of where they
actually are, and then theyperform in the evenings.
And uh anyway, he said he he wasa great voice to be able to sort
of compare and contrast andagain give the sort of larger
context.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
That was a great idea to go after him and add him
to your film.
So uh let's talk about uh themovement began after the tragic
death of the teacher MatthewJensen in a hit-and-run crash.
So, how did you honor that losswhile making sure that the film
did not reduce him or hisfamily's experience to a device
(20:05):
that merely launched thepolitical story?
What human relationship becamethe emotional center of the
film?
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah, that's a it's a tough question.
I think a lot of documentaryfilmmaking, it comes down to
sort of almost intangibleaspects of like um sensitivity
to other people, just how youconduct yourself on a on every
shoot and every time youinterview anybody or talk to
anybody.
Um I sort of just had to feel itout.
(20:38):
And um I will say Matt Jensen,the teacher who was killed, uh,
doesn't have, I believe he wassingle, so there's no like
direct family.
There, um, so you know, I Imostly uh, you know, we talk
about him as sort of thisinciting incident, but I didn't
have to deal directly withpeople that that had suffered
(20:59):
that loss.
Um interestingly, I felt like itwas absolutely essential to talk
to someone who had really lost abeloved person.
And uh the person that I thatends up having that role is a
woman named Mary Beth Kelly,who's who's featured in the film
Who Lost Her Husband, um, whenthey were both out cycling and
(21:20):
he was hit by a truck.
And she is a uh she somehow umwas able to transfer her her
sort of loss and tragicsituation into activism.
And she's sort of one of theleaders of the sort of safe
streets movement in the city,and uh and a lovely woman, and
(21:43):
uh that was my most sort ofdirect engagement with someone
that's to whom it's extremelypersonal.
Um, also the activists that arefeatured in the film who live in
that community, um I feel thatuh my relationship with them,
(22:03):
like they're the ones thatreally had the most direct
relationship with the teacher,and their their sort of passion
to like again do something aboutthis and and sort of not just
let, you know, not not merelysay, Oh, this is extremely sad,
and we're not gonna, you know,and we're just going to be
grieving, but to again, I I'mI'm very motivated by people
(22:25):
that that transfer that that uhtranslate tragedy into positive
action.
And I think those people shouldbe celebrated, and um, I think
that's the best way to honoranyone who's you know, honor
these losses is is to sort ofcelebrate that at least that
they are being used to make theworld, you know, these these
(22:49):
terrible events can be ummotivation to to make positive
change.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
Exactly.
So, but you had to talk topeople on both sides of the
conflict and as a gooddocumentarian bring us both
sides of an issue.
So uh were there people whorefuse to participate because
they believe.
Believe the film had alreadychosen a side, or were you okay
with that?
Tell us about getting a lot ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Yeah, that's a big, the biggest, maybe the biggest
challenge, and maybe in someway, something that uh perhaps
could have been better.
I try I absolutely try, youknow, when I would show up at at
various events, I would oftenget this question of whose side
are you on?
And I would say, I'm not on theside.
I really, and I meant it.
(23:38):
You know, I'm not everybody inthe world has their own personal
feelings, and I'm no differentthan that.
But uh again, I'm I'm somebodythat I'm a pedestrian, I'm a
cyclist, I'm a driver, I do allof these things.
I think streets need toaccommodate all of these
activities that people do onthem.
And uh um, so I tried topresent, and I also uh, you
(24:02):
know, although I think mysympathies are sort of clearly
more with the side of changethan the side that was that
rejecting change, I uh I triedto be respectful of everybody
and give everybody anopportunity to express their
point of view.
The side uh the organization,which which calls itself uh Make
(24:23):
McGinnis Safe, that was reallypromoting the change, was very
open to participating and uhsharing their feelings and their
um events with me.
The side that opposed thechange, uh, which was called
Keep McCalled itself keep meGuinness Moving, was uh
significantly tougher not tocrack.
(24:45):
Um I was able to shoot um abunch of the events of of the
folks that were against change,but they were uh can they were a
lot less open to talking.
Um you know they never exactlysaid no, but they also sort of
never said yes, and I gave themample opportunities.
(25:08):
I feel like that ultimatelythat's all you can do.
You can you can ask, and I didmany times.
And uh also ironically, ofcourse, when the movie was done,
their PR person suddenly emailsme, Oh, I'm concerned about how
we're portrayed in your movie.
Uh he hadn't seen the movie, buthe was concerned.
But I you know, I said, Look, Igave you guys every opportunity
(25:28):
to participate.
If you choose not to, I'm sorry.
Um, this is a little late forthe for that sort of concern.
SPEAKER_02 (25:35):
Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
I do think also these fights or these kind of
there's an author, Naomi Klein.
She wrote a book calledDoppelganger that I read during
the making of this movie, whichI also found highly relevant.
Um and it's there's somethingabout our politics now where
again, where every fight sort ofbreaks up into two groups, and
the two groups are completely atodds, and they often weirdly
(25:59):
mirror each other.
So you, you know, both but it'soften a sort of false, false
mirroring.
Like um the group that wantedchange was saying we need to
make the street safer.
We're you know, arguablysupposedly up to a couple
hundred people were probablykilled there over the years.
It's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
And uh, but then the group that was against the
change would also frame it as asafety issue.
They'd say, Well, if you youknow, if you if you reduce the
car lanes, ambulances won't beand fir trucks won't be able to
get to emergencies in time andpeople will die.
I mean, it's it becomes verymuddled and confusing because um
both sides will I think one sidetends to do it in good faith,
(26:44):
and the other side tends to doit as a sort of strategy, um, a
sort of political strategy.
And the result often in ourpolitics is that again, sort of
stasis because people just getconfused and uh instead of sort
of informed.
Um which is all to say, I whileI believe that there are were
certainly decent, reasonablepeople on both sides.
(27:07):
I also think there are some ofthe people that were opposed to
the the changes were notcompletely uh transparent.
I think it was um you knowthere's there's a term called
astroturfing.
You have sort of grassrootsorganizations, which I think
that the the group that wantedthe changes, it's really
bottom-up.
It's people just wanting to makesome change.
(27:29):
And then you have astroturfedorganizations which want to
appear to be grassroots, butoften are sort of sponsored by
commercial interests,essentially.
And I think that's largely whatwas the case here.
I have nothing againstcommercial interests.
I'm a small business ownermyself.
Businesses are important, butwhat I'm against is people um
not being transparent.
(27:50):
You know, if if if you if ifyour concern is it's gonna be
hard for you to get your trucksinto your business, then just
say it.
You know, don't don't I thinkthe mistake is when they start
sponsoring, quote, publicmeetings and locking out people
and and things of that nature.
Um, that's where it'sproblematic, but it's also that
(28:12):
was um that's where this film Ithink mirrors our larger
politics.
It it talks about there'sthere's some bad acting going on
here and and some dishonesty,and it really corrupts this the
system.
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, let's talk about thecinematographer's eye, which you
definitely have, because yourvision for the film came across
beautifully with your workingtogether.
So, how did you make trafficpatterns, public meetings,
street design, politicalnegotiations cinematic rather
(28:48):
than simply informational?
Tell us about it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Well, I think you know it's it's hard.
I can't say that the politicalmeetings are particularly um
beautifully photographed today.
In those situations, you're justdoing the best you can to just
show whoever's talking.
But the uh but I did think thatstreets are actually very
(29:12):
visually uh fascinating.
You have color, movement,geometry, um, you know, and and
you also have some veryinteresting new tools, um,
especially drones, which I usequite a lot of to show streets
in in ways that are uh you know,again, graphically interesting
(29:33):
and and and and and perspectivesthat um really help tell the
story.
And uh so I think maybe likemost films, my film is a balance
of certain scenes are just arenot particularly
cinematographic, and and othersare are you know, again, when
it's more I think anyway,illustrating the street and
(29:57):
changes to the street and theway people work on the street,
uh all of that I think is isvery uh there's a lot of
opportunity as a as a as acinematographer.
Shooting public meetings, it'sit's it's it's not so much.
And uh, but I was happy thatthere's you know between the the
shots of the street and also thearchival materials, which I
(30:19):
think add a lot of visual visualrichness to the film, um seeing
the streets at different pointsin time, you know, way back uh a
hundred years ago before theautomobile was even uh a uh a
thing, is uh is it is visuallyexciting seeing the
transformation.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Well, let's get into thehuman-powered production because
uh why was it important forfilmmakers for the filmmaking
process to look at the valuesand the subject of the
documentary?
Because I understand youtransported the equipment by
(30:59):
bicycle and bike trailer.
That's incredible.
Did this cause uh any reduceyour costs, or was it for
environmental impact impact, orhow did it create a new
production challenge?
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
Right.
I think it was um well, a fewthings happened.
One, I've noticed over the yearsthe gear is getting smaller and
smaller, which is great, andit's allowing smaller crews and
even one-man crews, which mostof this film I just did on my
own, um, to do a lot.
And uh, you know, I mostlythought it would be a fun,
(31:39):
almost hook for the film to beable to say, you know, not only
is it a film about gettingaround cities in different ways,
but it's a film that actuallysort of practiced what it
preached.
You know, it showed, because Ithink there is an attitude a lot
of the time that, you know,bikes are sort of toys, but if
you really are serious, if youwant to really get anything
done, you need a car.
And I so well, I think this thefilm itself is sort of an
(32:02):
illustration like, no, actually,you can make a whole documentary
film with with just a bike, um,especially if if the subject of
your documentary is only fivemiles away from where you live,
which was the case here.
So it um I also initiallythought when I was sort of
conceiving of the project thatmy that I would be sort of a
bigger character in the movie,and I thought that maybe my you
(32:24):
know traveling from location tolocation would be woven into the
into the story.
That sort of ended up on thecutting room floor.
It just the story ended up beingrich enough with enough
characters.
I just felt like I didn't needto be a significant part of it.
But I I do like the uh thenotion that that I was getting
(32:45):
there um, you know, that again,that I was using this form of
transportation and to reallyshow off how much you can do.
I would also add that uh it wasa sort of challenge to me of can
I actually make this movieagain, sort of mostly by myself.
I'm talking about the productionand not the post-production,
(33:06):
where I had a lot of help.
Um and that's not a way Inormally work, and there's it's
challenging because it'sexhausting and it's hard to
there's a lot ofresponsibilities if you're it
was pretty it was it's very easyto go somewhere and just shoot
B-roll to go to some, you know,okay, they're gonna be painting
(33:27):
the street today.
You go and you shoot thempainting the street, but it's
it's more challenging when it'sI'm gonna do an interview today,
so I have to show up atsomebody's house, bring in all
the equipment, set up thecamera, set up the light, set up
the sound, now sit down, talk tothem, and sort of be paying
attention to what they'resaying, but also the way it
looks.
It's it's a lot.
(33:47):
I'm not sure I recommend doing amovie this way, but it but it
was an interesting challenge,and I was able to do it.
And there are some pluses to it.
I think I mean the big besidesthat it's obviously keeps your
cost down.
One of the challenges indocumentary is always um that
you sort of have on that yoursort of production interferes
(34:11):
with sort of capturing somethingreal or something authentic, you
know, like just even shooting aninterview when there's three
other a sound person hangingover everybody and a camera
person back there.
It's just the interview subjectis often just nervous and very
self-conscious.
Uh it's it's quite different ifyou just show up alone and then
(34:32):
just have a conversation with aperson.
And I I think I'm very happywith the quality of the
interviews that I was able toget.
And I think some of that is dueto the such having such a fall,
a small footprint and it makingit easier for people to just
have a very humanperson-to-person conversation
and not not feel like you knowthey're part of some big under
(34:54):
some big magnifying glass.
SPEAKER_02 (34:56):
Right.
Well, this is working as aproducer, a director, and a
director of photography.
Yeah, those are the three topjobs to do all of them yourself,
puts a lot of responsibility onyou.
So I guess by the time you gotto the location, first you have
to set it up, convince them, getthere, set everything up, and
(35:19):
sit down.
That was a great relief just tobe ready with your questions.
So putting the questionstogether was really important,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Yeah.
I would add, I guess the reasonthat maybe this all worked out
is also because I shot overabout a three-year period.
It wasn't like, oh, you know, itwasn't like we have to do
everything in two weeks or amonth and do an intense
schedule.
It was just, it was very spacedout.
It felt almost like a yogapractice or something.
I just I sort of had this ruleto myself like, I just want to
(35:49):
shoot something every week.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
Like an event.
If there's no event going on,let me think of a good person to
interview.
I just tried to just keep kindof gathering materials, but in a
very this sort of slow way.
So, you know, that one day aweek I would do something would
be exhausting, but it it wasn't,then I could just relax after
that and just sort of recoup andand um another thing that I
(36:17):
think worked very well is that Ibrought my editor Kristen Bai in
about halfway into my shootingprocess.
So maybe a year and a half in, Ishared the material that I had
gathered and uh she startedorganizing it.
And we had regular conversationsabout you know what additional
(36:39):
material we would want, as wellas the story was still very much
unfolding in in time.
Um and I was very lucky thatthat the you know during the
period the production period, itreally did come to sort of an
ending and an interesting andexciting ending.
Um, because you could argue thatthis street this street was
(37:02):
really created in the 1950s.
It had been a small residentiallane, um, about 500 houses were
knocked down to widen it andmake it a almost a highway.
And uh ever since then it wasproblematic, and ever since then
people were unhappy.
But you could argue that therewas a 70-year struggle to do
(37:22):
something, and and I was in away lucky that I I started my
documentary at the very, youknow, at the very end of that
struggle, in the in thethree-year period where actual
change finally happened, um,which also tells you something
about documentary.
There's a big luck element.
Uh, you never, you know, ifyou're following something
(37:43):
that's happening in real time asopposed to like a historical
documentary, you really don'tknow exactly what's going on.
And uh you do have to sort offollow things where they go.
And if you're lucky, if you'relucky, they go in a really
dramatically satisfyingdirection, which was the case
here, but I could have just aswell not.
And honestly, for most of thetime I was making this movie, I
(38:05):
didn't expect the surprisinglypositive uh you know conclusion
that that it that it has.
I don't want to give awayeverything that happens in the
film, but it it there was agreat deal of of luck involved,
and I think that's just part ofthe game.
SPEAKER_02 (38:23):
Absolutely, but I I want to commend you on getting
your uh editor involved soearly.
Is he a friend or how how do youdo that?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
It's a woman, Kristen Bye.
Uh, she we had worked on otherprojects or other things I had
shot, she had edited, and I hadum especially a a movie, uh
documentary uh called Obit,directed by uh Vanessa Gould
about the obituary department ofthe New York Times.
Kristen had edited that, and Ithought done such a spectacular
(38:55):
job that I that I always thoughtuh she would be well, so
especially for this subject.
She also used to live in theneighborhood that that my movie
is set in.
I thought she's the right personto do the job.
Um so anyway, because we'rewe've known each other, um,
fortunately, she agreed to toparticipate.
(39:16):
And uh her only conditionactually, because editing is
hard, and uh as you know, and uhshe uh she was pretty firm that
she only wanted to work on itabout three days a week, and I
was fine with that.
You know, I was saying I'm onlyshooting one or two days a week.
Go ahead and you know, this isnot we're not in a rush.
(39:36):
I knew this was gonna go on forquite a long time.
So that's how we worked.
It was it was you know, again,it was sort of slow and
dispersed over over a quite anextended period.
Um, but it somehow it all cametogether.
It's definitely a marathon.
I mean, documentary making isalways a marathon.
This felt even maybe more thethe case than than usual.
(39:59):
And there were certainly timeswhen I I mean, I think the
difference between being acinematographer and being a
director in a way is when you'rethe director or the producer and
the director, you really have tosupply that sort of psychic
energy to like get the thingdone and to move it forwards.
When you're the cinematographer,you just get a call or an email
saying show up tomorrow and dothe job, and you do it, and
(40:22):
that's fine, but you're notdriving it in the same way.
Um in this case, I just feltlike I just had to just keep
moving forwards.
And sometimes it's hard to keepyour uh enthusiasm, and you
start to wonder, is is thisreally going anywhere?
Is there anything here?
And uh, but I guess I've beenthrough this process enough to
(40:44):
kind of know that there aregoing to be periods that are
that are where you feel kind ofdown about it, but you have to
you do have to push through, anduh that's just the way it works.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Well, that was a brilliant uh opportunity to be
able to talk to another personwho had the images in their head
and the story so that the two ofyou could make sure you were
telling a good story.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Yeah, and I also knew I'm not really an editor, I
know that, but even if I were,like it's very important to have
another brain working on on thething.
And uh Kristen brought, youknow, I had certain ideas that
uh that didn't work, and and uhand Kristen had certain ideas I
(41:32):
would have never come up with,and it's just it's it's
fascinating how thatcollaboration works, and it's
exciting when it's working well,and you're starting you're
you're you know, it's it's hardwhen you're too close to the
material.
Sometimes it's hard to seesomething in a fresh way, and
having that that other uhopinion oh, you know, about how
to structure something or whatanyway, there's an awful lot in
(41:57):
the film that I would not haveuh come up with alone, and
having and she just I I think inmost documentary, like the
editor is almost as important asas as the director, and that
collaboration is so important.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Exactly, and fun.
That's the fun part.
SPEAKER_00 (42:14):
Sometimes, right.
SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
Okay, so once the film is completed, what was your
festival distribution andaudience engagement strategy?
SPEAKER_00 (42:26):
Yeah, well, again, and make coming back to this
luck aspect, to be perfectlyhonest, because the film has
played at at this point five orsix festivals.
It it premiered at the uh it'scalled ADFF, which is
Architecture and Design FilmFestival in New York.
And one of the great thingsabout ADFF is it's a very small
festival.
(42:46):
They don't show a whole lot offilms, but they also tour around
the world.
So through that festival, it'sscreened also in Los Angeles,
Vancouver, Toronto, Chicago.
Um, so that was sort of theinitial exposure the film got.
But what's been in retrospect,um again, maybe it's luck, but
(43:08):
it turns out that it's verysmart to make a film about a
subject that's already got avery engaged and organized sort
of activist community around thesubject of the film.
Um, because sort of separatelyfrom festivals, the film is now
maybe screened 30 or 40 times.
I mean, on a weekly basis, I'mgetting requests from cities all
(43:30):
over the world at this point toscreen this film.
SPEAKER_02 (43:32):
Oh, how exciting!
SPEAKER_00 (43:34):
Yeah, and it's great, and that is not, and it's
not, I'm not doing very much topromote it, other than I've been
I've I have done um mydistributor, First Run Features,
has done a good job with PR, andthey've arranged many of these
sorts of interviews like we'redoing now, and I think that's
been helpful at getting the wordout.
But but anyway, there arethere's uh some people are so
(43:57):
engaged with um urbantransportation, and it's in
every big city that I thinkthere's a real appetite for this
kind of content, and it's uhit's been really exceeding my
expectations that that peoplewould come to me and ask for
things rather than me trying topush, push, push, which is hard.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
Well, how do you like first run?
Are they taking good care ofyou?
SPEAKER_00 (44:21):
So far, so good.
You know, it's it only uh we hada small commercial theatrical
release in Los Angeles in April.
And uh only last month it we'vestarted streaming on Amazon and
Canopy.
Um, so it's it's only veryrecent that that's happened.
But again, the fact that a smalldocumentary is is is getting
(44:42):
that attention is great, and I'myou know very happy about it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
Yes, because uh at the onset you think, oh, this is
a little doc about a small uhcity, uh a small group, but then
when you start looking atcyclists, that's worldwide.
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
And we all want to be safe on our bicycles, so
yeah, and I I also want toemphasize I don't think it's I
don't talk about this movie as acycling movie, and while that's
an important part of it, I thinkit's a movie for people that
live in cities.
And need to get around theircities.
And that includes it includesall the ways that we get around.
And you know, again, walking.
(45:20):
I mean, again, the the MattJensen, who was the teacher
killed, was walking.
He wasn't on a bike.
He was literally walking acrossthe street and run over.
So it's it's a much bigger thingthan bikes.
It's it's about the way we, it'sabout cities, about why they're
designed the way they are, aboutuh how difficult it is to make
(45:44):
change, about uh, you know, whatcan be done to make change.
It's about what looking aroundthe world and seeing what's
working really well in someplaces and maybe giving people
ideas about things that could,you know, happen in their
communities.
SPEAKER_02 (46:00):
That's incredibly great.
So I'd like you to give someadvice to our filmmakers because
after working on so manydocumentaries and now directing
your first feature, what do youknow today that you wish you had
known when you began makingchanging lanes?
SPEAKER_00 (46:27):
I mean, again, I think I knew a lot because I've
been doing this for a while.
Um I think it, you know, but itit's mostly this aspect that uh
that I had mentioned that I knewit's hard to make movies, it's a
slog, and it this reinforcedthat, but it also you know
reinforced I the good the goodnews it is if you if you feel
(46:49):
strongly about something andstick with it, um, you'll get
there.
Um I also this is definitelyfrom a sort of production
standpoint, in a way, thesmallest movie I've worked on.
It's smaller than the ones I'veshot for other people, where we
definitely had a larger crew andand whatnot.
So I I think I've shown tomyself and to other people that
(47:13):
you know the the the tools havebecome small enough uh you can
that you can do a lot with justa couple people and and that
having uh I think the mostimportant thing, again, which
has always been true is the mostimportant thing is having an
interesting subject and uh andfollowing it.
And uh and it's very these sortof human factors, um, you know,
(47:38):
I think more important finding agood story, finding people that
are willing to be comfortable,you know, finding a way to make
people comfortable around you sothat you can actually get
something real.
SPEAKER_02 (47:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (47:50):
Um those are sort of I think in the end, the more
important things than having theright you know, light or
microphone or something, likethose things now are it's almost
crazy how uh how accessible alot of these tools are now, and
(48:11):
uh and that's really good news.
I mean it it does mean that allyou need the good news is all
you need is a great story.
SPEAKER_02 (48:19):
The bad news is really hard to find a great
story, like but sometimes thestory will find you.
SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
Yes, yeah, that's that's right.
You know, I think it'simportant, I think everybody has
something that they arepassionate about, and and I
think it's uh this is anillustration.
I think if you follow what youknow, your particular interest,
uh it'll lead you somewhere.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:43):
Yes, that's the whole thing, knowing that you've
got a good story because it willtake time.
They said the average is sixyears to make a documentary.
SPEAKER_00 (48:54):
How long that's interesting to know.
Yeah, this was about athree-year process, which which
again to people who don't dothis stuff sounds long, but I
knew you know that's actuallyfairly typical of projects I've
worked on.
I probably shot around a hundredhours, which again is fairly
typical of projects I've workedon.
Um it's just it's a marathon, asI said.
(49:14):
There's no there's no way aroundit.
SPEAKER_02 (49:17):
But the story held up, and you and you're very
happy with what you've got.
SPEAKER_00 (49:22):
I'm extremely happy, which is you know, that's a it
which is wonderful.
It's um because I've you know,I've also been disappointed in
at various points on otherprojects, and sometimes you do
all that hard work, and anyway,it's a it's a blend of you have
to have the good idea, you haveto persevere, and and you also
(49:43):
have to be lucky.
You need a lot of things tohappen, and sometimes they it
comes together and sometimes itdoesn't.
Um, this was absolutely a case,yeah, where it it for what the
the somebody was somebody was onmy side and and it it it did
really come together nicely.
SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
You had an angel on your shoulder.
SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Seems that way.
Of course, now I'm trying tofigure out what's the next
project, and and it's uh that'syou know, start you start back
at square one again.
Um, and I haven't I haven'tquite figured it out yet.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Well, I hope you do, because we want to see more of
your work.
And I thank you for joining usand sharing the remarkable
journey behind changing lanes.
Because your film reminds usthat a documentary does not need
to begin with a distant countryor a famous personality.
It can begin with one street,one preventable tragedy, one
(50:38):
community, and one filmmaker whorecognizes that something
important is happening.
And you've also shown us thatcinematography is not simply the
act of making somethingbeautiful, it is the art of
noticing, watching how peoplerespond, recognizing where power
(50:58):
is operating and capturing themoments that reveal what an
issue truly means.
Uh, in my new book, You Are theMagic, I remind filmmakers that
magic is not passive wishfulthinking.
It begins when you become veryclear about what you intend to
create.
You give that your intention,your focused attention.
(51:23):
You put your attention on yourintention, and then you take
inspired action.
So, Ben, for example, did notwait for someone else to decide
that this neighborhood struggledeserved to become a film.
He recognized this story.
He picked up his camera and heput his equipment on a bicycle,
(51:44):
and that's how he got started.
Uh, and that's how films aremade and how movements grow.
And at From the Heart, webelieve in the power of
independent filmmakers.
Through our five annual Roy W.
Dean grants, sponsorship,education, and filmmaker
programs.
We are here to help you moveyour film forward.
(52:06):
So please visit our website atFrom The Heart Productions.com.
Remember, you are the magic.
From our hearts to yours, thankyou for listening to the Art of
Film funding and thank you,Claire and Ben, for a wonderful
event.
SPEAKER_00 (52:23):
Thank you.
What happens when a neighborhood asks for one
dangerous street to be madesafer and discovers that the
fight is really about power,money, and who gets to shape the
future of a city?
Stay with us, as filmmaker BenWolfe reveals how he transformed
that battle into his featureddocumentary, Directing Debut
(01:40):
Changing Lanes.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
As mentioned before, Carol is the author of the
best-selling book, The Art ofFilm Funding, Alternative
Financing Concepts, and thefounder and president of From
the Heart Productions.
For more than 30 years, From theHeart has supported independent
filmmakers through the Roy W.
Dean grant, physicalsponsorship, education,
(02:17):
mentorship, and a communitydedicated to helping important
films reach the world.
Today's guest understandsdocumentary filmmaking from
nearly every side of the camera.
Ben Wolfe is a producer,director, and director of
photography whose cinematographyand producing credits include
(02:40):
the feature documentaries Noteby Note, Ride, Rise, Roar,
Loving Lamp Post, Oh Bit, TheHappy Film, and Keeper of Time.
Splitting his time betweenBrooklyn and Sicily, Ben is also
an avid cyclist.
(03:00):
His relationship with cycling,documentary storytelling, and
the streets of New York cametogether in his feature
documentary directing debut,Changing Lanes.
The film begins after the tragichit and run death of a beloved
teacher in Greenpoint, Brooklyn.
(03:22):
His death helped ignite agrassroots movement to transform
the notoriously dangerousMcGuinness Boulevard from a
four-lane roadway into a saferstreet with a protected bicycle
lane.
Today we will discuss how Benmoved from cinematographer to
(03:44):
director, how he found andfinanced the story, how he
filmed a politically chargedcommunity conflict, and what
independent filmmakers can learnfrom creating an urgent
documentary close to home.
Ben, welcome to the Art of FilmFunding.
(04:04):
And now I'm delighted to turnthe conversation over to Carol
Dean.
SPEAKER_02 (04:09):
Thank you, Claire.
And Ben, welcome.
We're delighted to have you withus.
You really have photographed andhelped produce an extraordinary
range of documentaries, butchanging lanes marks a
significant new chapter for youas a feature director for
documentaries.
(04:30):
So I'm especially interested inhow you recognize the larger
story inside of this localconflict and how your background
as a cinematographer helped youcapture the people, the
politics, and the changingemotions surrounding it.
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Well, thanks for having me.
Those are some really uh bigquestions you just you just came
up with there.
Um yeah, so just to give you alittle background about my
history, I um went to filmschool at Columbia University,
the graduate program in the late90s, and studied directing, and
(05:11):
that was more focused on onnarrative filmmaking that that
program.
And upon graduation, I uh wasn'treally getting hired to direct
narrative films or any filmsreally, as it's always a wake-up
call when you leave film school,and then you have to transition
(05:32):
into a career.
And um for a variety of reasons,I fell into cinematography.
That was a thing that I enjoyeddoing and and found I was
reasonably good at and and couldactually make a living doing it.
And subsequently, for the last25 or so years, that's mostly
(05:53):
what I've done is worked as acinematographer on all sorts of
projects, narrative films,documentary films, commercials.
But over time, documentarybecame sort of more meaningful
to me and and the kind of work Iwas most excited to be doing,
where the kind of work that Ifelt was actually making some
kind of positive difference inthe in the world.
(06:15):
And uh so for some time I'vewanted to, I still had this
dream of directing, but uh it'sdifficult, especially when
you're busy working on otherpeople's projects.
Um so really ironically, maybeit was only the when the
pandemic hit and suddenly my uhthe work I was doing for a
(06:37):
living pretty much dried up.
I finally had time.
And uh, and and so I tried tofigure out what is a what is a
documentary that I uh that wouldbe meaningful to me and also
achievable, um, you know, whichfor me as a person of relatively
modest means meant you know alocal story, but hopefully a
(06:59):
local story that had sort oflarger implications and uh sort
of a story that would be amicrocosm for bigger um issues.
Um and I guess what's beenreally wonderful is that that it
seems to have uh worked.
I seem to have maybe by instinctor luck found a very specific
(07:20):
local story of a particularstreet in Brooklyn that is a
compelling story on its own, butI think very clearly is a way
into talking about sort oflarger political problems that
that we're sort of facing in inour city and and our country.
SPEAKER_02 (07:39):
Yes.
Uh well done.
I think Changing Lines is agreat film.
And you studied at Columbia.
That's a really difficult schoolto get into, Ben, right?
SPEAKER_00 (07:52):
I uh I don't know.
It may be, it may be, I don'tknow how difficult it is, and it
may be more difficult now thanit was at that time.
It's clear that there are many,many people that are interested
in studying film.
Um, in fact, some sometimes Iworry that there's more people.
I'm not sure that the jobs existor the roles exist that people
(08:13):
are are studying for, and that'sa that's sort of a frustration.
Um but that's another that'sanother conversation.
SPEAKER_02 (08:21):
It is.
Well, Maureen Ryan, did youstudy with her in the
documentary?
SPEAKER_00 (08:26):
I know who she is, but I I didn't.
Um we had very little focus ondocumentary in at Columbia when
I was there.
Again, things may have changed,but it was very much focused
towards fiction filmmaking.
SPEAKER_02 (08:39):
Um fiction filmmaking.
Oh, well, yes.
SPEAKER_00 (08:42):
But I do I do I will say I I do think there's more
overlap than maybe people oftenthink.
And I have worked in both andcontinue to work in both.
And uh in either case, you'retelling stories, you know,
you're you're you're leading anaudience along, you're engaging
them.
Um things like I mean,technical, technical issues
(09:05):
about how you visualize a story,how you use a camera, um, but
also issues about characters andconflict, and many things are
are actually carry over, Ithink.
SPEAKER_02 (09:19):
Wonderful.
That's really good forfilmmakers to hear.
Uh, so let's talk about goingfrom cinematographer to
director, because you've spentyears helping others translate
uh their directors translatetheir ideas into visual stories.
So, what made you decide thatChanging Lanes was the film that
(09:42):
you needed to direct?
Was there a particular momentwhen you realized that this is
my story and I can tell it?
SPEAKER_00 (09:51):
Right.
Well, I will say, for one thing,having um shot, I don't know,
maybe a dozen featuredocumentaries, and now being in
my 50s, I'm often working atthis point with younger
directors and and lessexperienced directors.
And and documentaries areusually a very small team.
It's you know, it's often maybefour or five people really
(10:13):
making the movie.
And so I often felt like I wassort of almost co-directing some
of these projects, which is funand it's exciting to be sort of
creatively engaged, but it'salso a bit frustrating for for
the ego because you, you know,I'm I'm doing the work and then
but then the whoever is thedirector gets all the credit.
(10:34):
So it so something for I I feltwhat I'm trying to say, I think
is I felt quite well prepared atthis point, having done this for
as long as I have, and and andalthough a cinematographer
technically is not a director,there there is a lot of overlap
and a lot of collaboration witha director, especially in the
heat of battle.
Like, what should we be shootingnow?
How should we shoot this?
(10:55):
The events happening right infront of us.
Often, you know, we have a quickconversation and then it it
happens.
Um when the time came and whereI had time to again to do my own
thing, I um as was mentioned,I've I've been um pretty
passionate about cycling for mywhole life.
(11:16):
I used to race bikes.
I've also I also want toemphasize I'm also a driver.
I have a car.
I you know, I feel like I don'twant to be seen as just one
thing, but but but cycling issomething I love and it's a
beautiful way to get around acity, um, especially when
there's you know some reasonableinfrastructure to make that
(11:36):
reasonably safe.
And in in New York, it's uh it'sbeen interesting that I came
here in 1991 and I've witnesseda lot of changes to the many of
our streets.
And what when I first came hereand would ride a bike around, it
was very much an outsideractivity and very unusual.
And I remember showing up atsome meetings like in the 90s
with a bike helmet and stuff,and people could not believe
(11:58):
that I rode my bike, you know,to get there.
Um nowadays it's prettymainstream.
I mean, we have a bike sharesystem, it's the biggest in the
country with hundreds ofthousands of people a day using
that system.
Um, so it's anyway, it's beenfun seeing something that I was
a part of become more and morepopular.
(12:18):
And the changes to the streethave also been, you know, often
exciting.
Like, wow, now I feel so, youknow, it does feel in many
places much safer and moreaccommodating than it used to.
However, it's been very uneven.
And uh and then during thepandemic, the streets got really
(12:40):
chaotic.
Like I felt like overall, in thetime I've been here, things were
getting better, but then duringthe pandemic, it just became
kind of the wild west.
And this also sort of coincidedwith the arrival of all the new
types of e-vehicles, e-bikes,e-scooters, um, some of which
are legal, many of which aren't,but nobody seems to be doing
(13:01):
anything about it, people goingall speeds, all directions.
And it anyway, it I thought,well, this is there's really
something here to explore.
And uh so I started looking fora particular story, and I was
shooting, you know, going to abunch of different meetings
about different streets anddifferent safety projects, and I
came to one particular meetingthat's featured in the film.
(13:24):
Um it was held in a uh private,a private business held this
meeting to discuss uh McGinnisBoulevard.
It was billed as a publicmeeting, but then they locked
the door and kept out the folksthat disagreed with with the
people you know organizing themeeting.
(13:44):
And uh it was so over the top, Ithought, okay, this is this is
really looks like a story that'sgoing to be interesting to
follow.
And um, that's sort of when Idecided, okay, this is probably
gonna be the focus of my film.
And and I followed, so Ifollowed that struggle for about
three years.
The struggle had really begun acouple years even before I I got
(14:05):
involved, when a when a teacherin the local school was killed
crossing the street on hisbirthday.
Um that sort of incited, or Idon't know, lit a fire, but in
to to to do something about thestreet, which had claimed many,
many lives over the years andinjured sort of countless
people.
Um but it it very much dividedthe community, like so many, so
(14:30):
many aspects of our politicsthese days.
Everything kind of divides intotwo sides that are completely
unwilling to compromise and justbutting heads.
And uh so I anyway, I thought,okay, this this might be the
sort of microcosm I've beenlooking for that that let a way
in to talk about um politics.
Um I live about five miles awayfrom from Greenpoint, which is
(14:52):
the community where this streetexists.
So it's it's not exactly mycommunity, but it was very
nearby and easy for me to comeand go.
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
Well, when you went to the meetings, did you
photograph the meetings?
And if so, how did you getapproval to do that?
SPEAKER_00 (15:08):
Yeah, well, it's a complicated question.
In general, I found that thatmeetings that are truly public,
um, you can bring a camera inmost cases.
Um sometimes it's better not toask.
And uh many of those publicmeetings I just photographed
with a phone because I didn't Ididn't want to be challenged.
(15:30):
Um and you know, uh a thing thathas that is that has changed
recently is that phone camerasare good enough for for often,
you know.
I used a variety of sorts ofcameras and devices in my film,
um, but many of the publicmeetings, it was it was often
(15:50):
just a phone because I again Ididn't want to draw attention to
myself.
I didn't, I just wanted tocapture what was going on.
It may not look quite as nice asas using bigger cameras, but
every everything is a trade-off,and and I sort of had to decide
on a case-by-case basis what'sthe what's the best way to to
capture what's going on herewithout you know interfering or
(16:11):
becoming a you know making analready heated situation even
more heated than it already was.
SPEAKER_02 (16:17):
Absolutely.
No, Bobby Martis, anotherfilmmaker I love, says, I'd
rather I'd rather apologize thanto ask.
So you did the right thing, yougot the shot.
That's the main thing.
Did you get the shot?
Yes, you did.
That's for a documentaryfilmmaker, that's really
important.
That was so smart.
(16:38):
So finding the larger story,let's talk about that.
Because on the surface, this isa film about changing one
dangerous street, but underneaththat, it's about power, grief,
community, organizing, politics,and the future of our city.
So, how did you identify theuniversal story inside of such a
(17:02):
specific neighborhood conflict?
SPEAKER_00 (17:05):
Right.
Well, it's a somewhat organicprocess.
I mean, as I was following thisstory, I was reading a lot of
books on the subject of New Yorkinfrastructure, you know,
starting with the Great PowerBroker, the book that many
people know, the um about RobertMoses and his impact on the
design of New York City.
Um it became increasingincreasingly clear to me that to
(17:28):
tell this story well involvedgiving good context, good
historical context, andunderstanding how this street
fit in with, you know, how it'ssimilar or different from many
other streets in the city.
Um so sort of naturally Istarted um lining up interviews
(17:49):
with people that that could talkabout these things.
Um uh I guess the most centralor most important figure in the
movie is Jeanette Sodek Khan,who ran the transportation
department under MayorBloomberg, and uh is considered
sort of one of the titans in inthe in the history of the design
(18:11):
of New York.
I mean, Robert Moses is the onethat everybody talks about as
number one as far as reallyshape the city, but after him,
Jeanette Sodokan is probably thenext biggest person.
Um she did things like startedthe bike share system, she put
in most of the cyclinginfrastructure that we see in
the city.
She uh pedestrianized TimesSquare.
She did a bunch of things thatpeople said are not possible,
(18:33):
and she did them, and they'vebeen pretty widely celebrated.
Um, so anyway, that was animportant interview.
Sam Schwartz um rantransportation in the 80s under
Koch.
He was also an important personto talk about history.
Um and I guess the biggest sortof celebrity in the film is
(18:54):
David Byrne, the the singer thatpeople know from the talking
heads.
And um he, it turns out is alsoa big advocate of cycling.
And I thought he would be agreat voice for talking about
the history of the city becausehe's been here forever.
And also about how this our citycompares with other cities,
because when I worked on atouring film with him, I saw
(19:19):
that he and his band bring bikeswith them all over the world
where they perform and ridearound, you know, in the in the
mornings, I think to unwind, tosee a little of where they
actually are, and then theyperform in the evenings.
And uh anyway, he said he he wasa great voice to be able to sort
of compare and contrast andagain give the sort of larger
context.
SPEAKER_02 (19:40):
That was a great idea to go after him and add him
to your film.
So uh let's talk about uh themovement began after the tragic
death of the teacher MatthewJensen in a hit-and-run crash.
So, how did you honor that losswhile making sure that the film
did not reduce him or hisfamily's experience to a device
(20:05):
that merely launched thepolitical story?
What human relationship becamethe emotional center of the
film?
SPEAKER_00 (20:15):
Yeah, that's a it's a tough question.
I think a lot of documentaryfilmmaking, it comes down to
sort of almost intangibleaspects of like um sensitivity
to other people, just how youconduct yourself on a on every
shoot and every time youinterview anybody or talk to
anybody.
Um I sort of just had to feel itout.
(20:38):
And um I will say Matt Jensen,the teacher who was killed, uh,
doesn't have, I believe he wassingle, so there's no like
direct family.
There, um, so you know, I Imostly uh, you know, we talk
about him as sort of thisinciting incident, but I didn't
have to deal directly withpeople that that had suffered
(20:59):
that loss.
Um interestingly, I felt like itwas absolutely essential to talk
to someone who had really lost abeloved person.
And uh the person that I thatends up having that role is a
woman named Mary Beth Kelly,who's who's featured in the film
Who Lost Her Husband, um, whenthey were both out cycling and
(21:20):
he was hit by a truck.
And she is a uh she somehow umwas able to transfer her her
sort of loss and tragicsituation into activism.
And she's sort of one of theleaders of the sort of safe
streets movement in the city,and uh and a lovely woman, and
(21:43):
uh that was my most sort ofdirect engagement with someone
that's to whom it's extremelypersonal.
Um, also the activists that arefeatured in the film who live in
that community, um I feel thatuh my relationship with them,
(22:03):
like they're the ones thatreally had the most direct
relationship with the teacher,and their their sort of passion
to like again do something aboutthis and and sort of not just
let, you know, not not merelysay, Oh, this is extremely sad,
and we're not gonna, you know,and we're just going to be
grieving, but to again, I I'mI'm very motivated by people
(22:25):
that that transfer that that uhtranslate tragedy into positive
action.
And I think those people shouldbe celebrated, and um, I think
that's the best way to honoranyone who's you know, honor
these losses is is to sort ofcelebrate that at least that
they are being used to make theworld, you know, these these
(22:49):
terrible events can be ummotivation to to make positive
change.
SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
Exactly.
So, but you had to talk topeople on both sides of the
conflict and as a gooddocumentarian bring us both
sides of an issue.
So uh were there people whorefuse to participate because
they believe.
Believe the film had alreadychosen a side, or were you okay
with that?
Tell us about getting a lot ofthings.
SPEAKER_00 (23:17):
Yeah, that's a big, the biggest, maybe the biggest
challenge, and maybe in someway, something that uh perhaps
could have been better.
I try I absolutely try, youknow, when I would show up at at
various events, I would oftenget this question of whose side
are you on?
And I would say, I'm not on theside.
I really, and I meant it.
(23:38):
You know, I'm not everybody inthe world has their own personal
feelings, and I'm no differentthan that.
But uh again, I'm I'm somebodythat I'm a pedestrian, I'm a
cyclist, I'm a driver, I do allof these things.
I think streets need toaccommodate all of these
activities that people do onthem.
And uh um, so I tried topresent, and I also uh, you
(24:02):
know, although I think mysympathies are sort of clearly
more with the side of changethan the side that was that
rejecting change, I uh I triedto be respectful of everybody
and give everybody anopportunity to express their
point of view.
The side uh the organization,which which calls itself uh Make
(24:23):
McGinnis Safe, that was reallypromoting the change, was very
open to participating and uhsharing their feelings and their
um events with me.
The side that opposed thechange, uh, which was called
Keep McCalled itself keep meGuinness Moving, was uh
significantly tougher not tocrack.
(24:45):
Um I was able to shoot um abunch of the events of of the
folks that were against change,but they were uh can they were a
lot less open to talking.
Um you know they never exactlysaid no, but they also sort of
never said yes, and I gave themample opportunities.
(25:08):
I feel like that ultimatelythat's all you can do.
You can you can ask, and I didmany times.
And uh also ironically, ofcourse, when the movie was done,
their PR person suddenly emailsme, Oh, I'm concerned about how
we're portrayed in your movie.
Uh he hadn't seen the movie, buthe was concerned.
But I you know, I said, Look, Igave you guys every opportunity
(25:28):
to participate.
If you choose not to, I'm sorry.
Um, this is a little late forthe for that sort of concern.
SPEAKER_02 (25:35):
Well, thank you.
SPEAKER_00 (25:37):
I do think also these fights or these kind of
there's an author, Naomi Klein.
She wrote a book calledDoppelganger that I read during
the making of this movie, whichI also found highly relevant.
Um and it's there's somethingabout our politics now where
again, where every fight sort ofbreaks up into two groups, and
the two groups are completely atodds, and they often weirdly
(25:59):
mirror each other.
So you, you know, both but it'soften a sort of false, false
mirroring.
Like um the group that wantedchange was saying we need to
make the street safer.
We're you know, arguablysupposedly up to a couple
hundred people were probablykilled there over the years.
It's a lot.
SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Goodness.
SPEAKER_00 (26:21):
And uh, but then the group that was against the
change would also frame it as asafety issue.
They'd say, Well, if you youknow, if you if you reduce the
car lanes, ambulances won't beand fir trucks won't be able to
get to emergencies in time andpeople will die.
I mean, it's it becomes verymuddled and confusing because um
both sides will I think one sidetends to do it in good faith,
(26:44):
and the other side tends to doit as a sort of strategy, um, a
sort of political strategy.
And the result often in ourpolitics is that again, sort of
stasis because people just getconfused and uh instead of sort
of informed.
Um which is all to say, I whileI believe that there are were
certainly decent, reasonablepeople on both sides.
(27:07):
I also think there are some ofthe people that were opposed to
the the changes were notcompletely uh transparent.
I think it was um you knowthere's there's a term called
astroturfing.
You have sort of grassrootsorganizations, which I think
that the the group that wantedthe changes, it's really
bottom-up.
It's people just wanting to makesome change.
(27:29):
And then you have astroturfedorganizations which want to
appear to be grassroots, butoften are sort of sponsored by
commercial interests,essentially.
And I think that's largely whatwas the case here.
I have nothing againstcommercial interests.
I'm a small business ownermyself.
Businesses are important, butwhat I'm against is people um
not being transparent.
(27:50):
You know, if if if you if ifyour concern is it's gonna be
hard for you to get your trucksinto your business, then just
say it.
You know, don't don't I thinkthe mistake is when they start
sponsoring, quote, publicmeetings and locking out people
and and things of that nature.
Um, that's where it'sproblematic, but it's also that
(28:12):
was um that's where this film Ithink mirrors our larger
politics.
It it talks about there'sthere's some bad acting going on
here and and some dishonesty,and it really corrupts this the
system.
SPEAKER_02 (28:25):
Yes, absolutely.
Well, let's talk about thecinematographer's eye, which you
definitely have, because yourvision for the film came across
beautifully with your workingtogether.
So, how did you make trafficpatterns, public meetings,
street design, politicalnegotiations cinematic rather
(28:48):
than simply informational?
Tell us about it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Well, I think you know it's it's hard.
I can't say that the politicalmeetings are particularly um
beautifully photographed today.
In those situations, you're justdoing the best you can to just
show whoever's talking.
But the uh but I did think thatstreets are actually very
(29:12):
visually uh fascinating.
You have color, movement,geometry, um, you know, and and
you also have some veryinteresting new tools, um,
especially drones, which I usequite a lot of to show streets
in in ways that are uh you know,again, graphically interesting
(29:33):
and and and and and perspectivesthat um really help tell the
story.
And uh so I think maybe likemost films, my film is a balance
of certain scenes are just arenot particularly
cinematographic, and and othersare are you know, again, when
it's more I think anyway,illustrating the street and
(29:57):
changes to the street and theway people work on the street,
uh all of that I think is isvery uh there's a lot of
opportunity as a as a as acinematographer.
Shooting public meetings, it'sit's it's it's not so much.
And uh, but I was happy thatthere's you know between the the
shots of the street and also thearchival materials, which I
(30:19):
think add a lot of visual visualrichness to the film, um seeing
the streets at different pointsin time, you know, way back uh a
hundred years ago before theautomobile was even uh a uh a
thing, is uh is it is visuallyexciting seeing the
transformation.
SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, I'm sure.
Well, let's get into thehuman-powered production because
uh why was it important forfilmmakers for the filmmaking
process to look at the valuesand the subject of the
documentary?
Because I understand youtransported the equipment by
(30:59):
bicycle and bike trailer.
That's incredible.
Did this cause uh any reduceyour costs, or was it for
environmental impact impact, orhow did it create a new
production challenge?
SPEAKER_00 (31:15):
Right.
I think it was um well, a fewthings happened.
One, I've noticed over the yearsthe gear is getting smaller and
smaller, which is great, andit's allowing smaller crews and
even one-man crews, which mostof this film I just did on my
own, um, to do a lot.
And uh, you know, I mostlythought it would be a fun,
(31:39):
almost hook for the film to beable to say, you know, not only
is it a film about gettingaround cities in different ways,
but it's a film that actuallysort of practiced what it
preached.
You know, it showed, because Ithink there is an attitude a lot
of the time that, you know,bikes are sort of toys, but if
you really are serious, if youwant to really get anything
done, you need a car.
And I so well, I think this thefilm itself is sort of an
(32:02):
illustration like, no, actually,you can make a whole documentary
film with with just a bike, um,especially if if the subject of
your documentary is only fivemiles away from where you live,
which was the case here.
So it um I also initiallythought when I was sort of
conceiving of the project thatmy that I would be sort of a
bigger character in the movie,and I thought that maybe my you
(32:24):
know traveling from location tolocation would be woven into the
into the story.
That sort of ended up on thecutting room floor.
It just the story ended up beingrich enough with enough
characters.
I just felt like I didn't needto be a significant part of it.
But I I do like the uh thenotion that that I was getting
(32:45):
there um, you know, that again,that I was using this form of
transportation and to reallyshow off how much you can do.
I would also add that uh it wasa sort of challenge to me of can
I actually make this movieagain, sort of mostly by myself.
I'm talking about the productionand not the post-production,
(33:06):
where I had a lot of help.
Um and that's not a way Inormally work, and there's it's
challenging because it'sexhausting and it's hard to
there's a lot ofresponsibilities if you're it
was pretty it was it's very easyto go somewhere and just shoot
B-roll to go to some, you know,okay, they're gonna be painting
(33:27):
the street today.
You go and you shoot thempainting the street, but it's
it's more challenging when it'sI'm gonna do an interview today,
so I have to show up atsomebody's house, bring in all
the equipment, set up thecamera, set up the light, set up
the sound, now sit down, talk tothem, and sort of be paying
attention to what they'resaying, but also the way it
looks.
It's it's a lot.
(33:47):
I'm not sure I recommend doing amovie this way, but it but it
was an interesting challenge,and I was able to do it.
And there are some pluses to it.
I think I mean the big besidesthat it's obviously keeps your
cost down.
One of the challenges indocumentary is always um that
you sort of have on that yoursort of production interferes
(34:11):
with sort of capturing somethingreal or something authentic, you
know, like just even shooting aninterview when there's three
other a sound person hangingover everybody and a camera
person back there.
It's just the interview subjectis often just nervous and very
self-conscious.
Uh it's it's quite different ifyou just show up alone and then
(34:32):
just have a conversation with aperson.
And I I think I'm very happywith the quality of the
interviews that I was able toget.
And I think some of that is dueto the such having such a fall,
a small footprint and it makingit easier for people to just
have a very humanperson-to-person conversation
and not not feel like you knowthey're part of some big under
(34:54):
some big magnifying glass.
SPEAKER_02 (34:56):
Right.
Well, this is working as aproducer, a director, and a
director of photography.
Yeah, those are the three topjobs to do all of them yourself,
puts a lot of responsibility onyou.
So I guess by the time you gotto the location, first you have
to set it up, convince them, getthere, set everything up, and
(35:19):
sit down.
That was a great relief just tobe ready with your questions.
So putting the questionstogether was really important,
right?
SPEAKER_00 (35:28):
Yeah.
I would add, I guess the reasonthat maybe this all worked out
is also because I shot overabout a three-year period.
It wasn't like, oh, you know, itwasn't like we have to do
everything in two weeks or amonth and do an intense
schedule.
It was just, it was very spacedout.
It felt almost like a yogapractice or something.
I just I sort of had this ruleto myself like, I just want to
(35:49):
shoot something every week.
SPEAKER_02 (35:51):
Wow.
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
Like an event.
If there's no event going on,let me think of a good person to
interview.
I just tried to just keep kindof gathering materials, but in a
very this sort of slow way.
So, you know, that one day aweek I would do something would
be exhausting, but it it wasn't,then I could just relax after
that and just sort of recoup andand um another thing that I
(36:17):
think worked very well is that Ibrought my editor Kristen Bai in
about halfway into my shootingprocess.
So maybe a year and a half in, Ishared the material that I had
gathered and uh she startedorganizing it.
And we had regular conversationsabout you know what additional
(36:39):
material we would want, as wellas the story was still very much
unfolding in in time.
Um and I was very lucky thatthat the you know during the
period the production period, itreally did come to sort of an
ending and an interesting andexciting ending.
Um, because you could argue thatthis street this street was
(37:02):
really created in the 1950s.
It had been a small residentiallane, um, about 500 houses were
knocked down to widen it andmake it a almost a highway.
And uh ever since then it wasproblematic, and ever since then
people were unhappy.
But you could argue that therewas a 70-year struggle to do
(37:22):
something, and and I was in away lucky that I I started my
documentary at the very, youknow, at the very end of that
struggle, in the in thethree-year period where actual
change finally happened, um,which also tells you something
about documentary.
There's a big luck element.
Uh, you never, you know, ifyou're following something
(37:43):
that's happening in real time asopposed to like a historical
documentary, you really don'tknow exactly what's going on.
And uh you do have to sort offollow things where they go.
And if you're lucky, if you'relucky, they go in a really
dramatically satisfyingdirection, which was the case
here, but I could have just aswell not.
And honestly, for most of thetime I was making this movie, I
(38:05):
didn't expect the surprisinglypositive uh you know conclusion
that that it that it has.
I don't want to give awayeverything that happens in the
film, but it it there was agreat deal of of luck involved,
and I think that's just part ofthe game.
SPEAKER_02 (38:23):
Absolutely, but I I want to commend you on getting
your uh editor involved soearly.
Is he a friend or how how do youdo that?
SPEAKER_00 (38:32):
It's a woman, Kristen Bye.
Uh, she we had worked on otherprojects or other things I had
shot, she had edited, and I hadum especially a a movie, uh
documentary uh called Obit,directed by uh Vanessa Gould
about the obituary department ofthe New York Times.
Kristen had edited that, and Ithought done such a spectacular
(38:55):
job that I that I always thoughtuh she would be well, so
especially for this subject.
She also used to live in theneighborhood that that my movie
is set in.
I thought she's the right personto do the job.
Um so anyway, because we'rewe've known each other, um,
fortunately, she agreed to toparticipate.
(39:16):
And uh her only conditionactually, because editing is
hard, and uh as you know, and uhshe uh she was pretty firm that
she only wanted to work on itabout three days a week, and I
was fine with that.
You know, I was saying I'm onlyshooting one or two days a week.
Go ahead and you know, this isnot we're not in a rush.
(39:36):
I knew this was gonna go on forquite a long time.
So that's how we worked.
It was it was you know, again,it was sort of slow and
dispersed over over a quite anextended period.
Um, but it somehow it all cametogether.
It's definitely a marathon.
I mean, documentary making isalways a marathon.
This felt even maybe more thethe case than than usual.
(39:59):
And there were certainly timeswhen I I mean, I think the
difference between being acinematographer and being a
director in a way is when you'rethe director or the producer and
the director, you really have tosupply that sort of psychic
energy to like get the thingdone and to move it forwards.
When you're the cinematographer,you just get a call or an email
saying show up tomorrow and dothe job, and you do it, and
(40:22):
that's fine, but you're notdriving it in the same way.
Um in this case, I just feltlike I just had to just keep
moving forwards.
And sometimes it's hard to keepyour uh enthusiasm, and you
start to wonder, is is thisreally going anywhere?
Is there anything here?
And uh, but I guess I've beenthrough this process enough to
(40:44):
kind of know that there aregoing to be periods that are
that are where you feel kind ofdown about it, but you have to
you do have to push through, anduh that's just the way it works.
SPEAKER_02 (40:54):
Well, that was a brilliant uh opportunity to be
able to talk to another personwho had the images in their head
and the story so that the two ofyou could make sure you were
telling a good story.
SPEAKER_00 (41:10):
Yeah, and I also knew I'm not really an editor, I
know that, but even if I were,like it's very important to have
another brain working on on thething.
And uh Kristen brought, youknow, I had certain ideas that
uh that didn't work, and and uhand Kristen had certain ideas I
(41:32):
would have never come up with,and it's just it's it's
fascinating how thatcollaboration works, and it's
exciting when it's working well,and you're starting you're
you're you know, it's it's hardwhen you're too close to the
material.
Sometimes it's hard to seesomething in a fresh way, and
having that that other uhopinion oh, you know, about how
to structure something or whatanyway, there's an awful lot in
(41:57):
the film that I would not haveuh come up with alone, and
having and she just I I think inmost documentary, like the
editor is almost as important asas as the director, and that
collaboration is so important.
SPEAKER_02 (42:10):
Exactly, and fun.
That's the fun part.
SPEAKER_00 (42:14):
Sometimes, right.
SPEAKER_02 (42:16):
Okay, so once the film is completed, what was your
festival distribution andaudience engagement strategy?
SPEAKER_00 (42:26):
Yeah, well, again, and make coming back to this
luck aspect, to be perfectlyhonest, because the film has
played at at this point five orsix festivals.
It it premiered at the uh it'scalled ADFF, which is
Architecture and Design FilmFestival in New York.
And one of the great thingsabout ADFF is it's a very small
festival.
(42:46):
They don't show a whole lot offilms, but they also tour around
the world.
So through that festival, it'sscreened also in Los Angeles,
Vancouver, Toronto, Chicago.
Um, so that was sort of theinitial exposure the film got.
But what's been in retrospect,um again, maybe it's luck, but
(43:08):
it turns out that it's verysmart to make a film about a
subject that's already got avery engaged and organized sort
of activist community around thesubject of the film.
Um, because sort of separatelyfrom festivals, the film is now
maybe screened 30 or 40 times.
I mean, on a weekly basis, I'mgetting requests from cities all
(43:30):
over the world at this point toscreen this film.
SPEAKER_02 (43:32):
Oh, how exciting!
SPEAKER_00 (43:34):
Yeah, and it's great, and that is not, and it's
not, I'm not doing very much topromote it, other than I've been
I've I have done um mydistributor, First Run Features,
has done a good job with PR, andthey've arranged many of these
sorts of interviews like we'redoing now, and I think that's
been helpful at getting the wordout.
But but anyway, there arethere's uh some people are so
(43:57):
engaged with um urbantransportation, and it's in
every big city that I thinkthere's a real appetite for this
kind of content, and it's uhit's been really exceeding my
expectations that that peoplewould come to me and ask for
things rather than me trying topush, push, push, which is hard.
SPEAKER_02 (44:17):
Well, how do you like first run?
Are they taking good care ofyou?
SPEAKER_00 (44:21):
So far, so good.
You know, it's it only uh we hada small commercial theatrical
release in Los Angeles in April.
And uh only last month it we'vestarted streaming on Amazon and
Canopy.
Um, so it's it's only veryrecent that that's happened.
But again, the fact that a smalldocumentary is is is getting
(44:42):
that attention is great, and I'myou know very happy about it.
SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
Yes, because uh at the onset you think, oh, this is
a little doc about a small uhcity, uh a small group, but then
when you start looking atcyclists, that's worldwide.
SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
And we all want to be safe on our bicycles, so
yeah, and I I also want toemphasize I don't think it's I
don't talk about this movie as acycling movie, and while that's
an important part of it, I thinkit's a movie for people that
live in cities.
And need to get around theircities.
And that includes it includesall the ways that we get around.
And you know, again, walking.
(45:20):
I mean, again, the the MattJensen, who was the teacher
killed, was walking.
He wasn't on a bike.
He was literally walking acrossthe street and run over.
So it's it's a much bigger thingthan bikes.
It's it's about the way we, it'sabout cities, about why they're
designed the way they are, aboutuh how difficult it is to make
(45:44):
change, about uh, you know, whatcan be done to make change.
It's about what looking aroundthe world and seeing what's
working really well in someplaces and maybe giving people
ideas about things that could,you know, happen in their
communities.
SPEAKER_02 (46:00):
That's incredibly great.
So I'd like you to give someadvice to our filmmakers because
after working on so manydocumentaries and now directing
your first feature, what do youknow today that you wish you had
known when you began makingchanging lanes?
SPEAKER_00 (46:27):
I mean, again, I think I knew a lot because I've
been doing this for a while.
Um I think it, you know, but itit's mostly this aspect that uh
that I had mentioned that I knewit's hard to make movies, it's a
slog, and it this reinforcedthat, but it also you know
reinforced I the good the goodnews it is if you if you feel
(46:49):
strongly about something andstick with it, um, you'll get
there.
Um I also this is definitelyfrom a sort of production
standpoint, in a way, thesmallest movie I've worked on.
It's smaller than the ones I'veshot for other people, where we
definitely had a larger crew andand whatnot.
So I I think I've shown tomyself and to other people that
(47:13):
you know the the the tools havebecome small enough uh you can
that you can do a lot with justa couple people and and that
having uh I think the mostimportant thing, again, which
has always been true is the mostimportant thing is having an
interesting subject and uh andfollowing it.
And uh and it's very these sortof human factors, um, you know,
(47:38):
I think more important finding agood story, finding people that
are willing to be comfortable,you know, finding a way to make
people comfortable around you sothat you can actually get
something real.
SPEAKER_02 (47:50):
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (47:50):
Um those are sort of I think in the end, the more
important things than having theright you know, light or
microphone or something, likethose things now are it's almost
crazy how uh how accessible alot of these tools are now, and
(48:11):
uh and that's really good news.
I mean it it does mean that allyou need the good news is all
you need is a great story.
SPEAKER_02 (48:19):
The bad news is really hard to find a great
story, like but sometimes thestory will find you.
SPEAKER_00 (48:27):
Yes, yeah, that's that's right.
You know, I think it'simportant, I think everybody has
something that they arepassionate about, and and I
think it's uh this is anillustration.
I think if you follow what youknow, your particular interest,
uh it'll lead you somewhere.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (48:43):
Yes, that's the whole thing, knowing that you've
got a good story because it willtake time.
They said the average is sixyears to make a documentary.
SPEAKER_00 (48:54):
How long that's interesting to know.
Yeah, this was about athree-year process, which which
again to people who don't dothis stuff sounds long, but I
knew you know that's actuallyfairly typical of projects I've
worked on.
I probably shot around a hundredhours, which again is fairly
typical of projects I've workedon.
Um it's just it's a marathon, asI said.
(49:14):
There's no there's no way aroundit.
SPEAKER_02 (49:17):
But the story held up, and you and you're very
happy with what you've got.
SPEAKER_00 (49:22):
I'm extremely happy, which is you know, that's a it
which is wonderful.
It's um because I've you know,I've also been disappointed in
at various points on otherprojects, and sometimes you do
all that hard work, and anyway,it's a it's a blend of you have
to have the good idea, you haveto persevere, and and you also
(49:43):
have to be lucky.
You need a lot of things tohappen, and sometimes they it
comes together and sometimes itdoesn't.
Um, this was absolutely a case,yeah, where it it for what the
the somebody was somebody was onmy side and and it it it did
really come together nicely.
SPEAKER_02 (50:01):
You had an angel on your shoulder.
SPEAKER_00 (50:03):
Seems that way.
Of course, now I'm trying tofigure out what's the next
project, and and it's uh that'syou know, start you start back
at square one again.
Um, and I haven't I haven'tquite figured it out yet.
SPEAKER_02 (50:15):
Well, I hope you do, because we want to see more of
your work.
And I thank you for joining usand sharing the remarkable
journey behind changing lanes.
Because your film reminds usthat a documentary does not need
to begin with a distant countryor a famous personality.
It can begin with one street,one preventable tragedy, one
(50:38):
community, and one filmmaker whorecognizes that something
important is happening.
And you've also shown us thatcinematography is not simply the
act of making somethingbeautiful, it is the art of
noticing, watching how peoplerespond, recognizing where power
(50:58):
is operating and capturing themoments that reveal what an
issue truly means.
Uh, in my new book, You Are theMagic, I remind filmmakers that
magic is not passive wishfulthinking.
It begins when you become veryclear about what you intend to
create.
You give that your intention,your focused attention.
(51:23):
You put your attention on yourintention, and then you take
inspired action.
So, Ben, for example, did notwait for someone else to decide
that this neighborhood struggledeserved to become a film.
He recognized this story.
He picked up his camera and heput his equipment on a bicycle,
(51:44):
and that's how he got started.
Uh, and that's how films aremade and how movements grow.
And at From the Heart, webelieve in the power of
independent filmmakers.
Through our five annual Roy W.
Dean grants, sponsorship,education, and filmmaker
programs.
We are here to help you moveyour film forward.
(52:06):
So please visit our website atFrom The Heart Productions.com.
Remember, you are the magic.
From our hearts to yours, thankyou for listening to the Art of
Film funding and thank you,Claire and Ben, for a wonderful
event.
SPEAKER_00 (52:23):
Thank you.
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