March 18, 2026 • 43 mins
Jonathon Smith is a writer, director, and producer whose work spans independent film development and forward-looking conversations about the evolving film industry.
Known for his thoughtful approach to storytelling and production, Jonathon has been actively exploring how emerging technologies, shifting studio structures, and new distribution models are reshaping opportunities for filmmakers.
As both a creative and a strategist, he brings a valuable perspective on how filmmakers can adapt to industry disruption while staying true to their artistic voice.
Jonathon is especially interested in how independent filmmakers can use new tools—including artificial intelligence and evolving digital platforms—to develop projects, reach audiences, and build sustainable careers in filmmaking.
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SPEAKER_01 (01:17):
Today we're talking about the massive changes coming
to the film industry from AI tostudio ships and what you as an
independent filmmaker need tounderstand right now to survive
and thrive.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Thank you for joining us on the Art of Film
Funding podcast.
I'm Claire Papan, your co-host.
This is where we explore thecreative and practical side of
getting films made.
Independent filmmakers arestanding at a fascinating
crossroads.
The film industry is shiftingfaster than ever.
(01:58):
Studios are merging.
Technology is transformingstorytelling.
Artificial intelligence israising both excitement and
concern.
And independent filmmakers areasking a very important
question.
Where do we fit in this newlandscape?
Today's guest brings a powerfulperspective to that
(02:22):
conversation.
We're going to talk about thefuture of filmmaking, what the
recent paramount developmentscould mean for creators, how AI
may reshape storytelling andproduction, and most
importantly, how independentfilmmakers can prepare
themselves to thrive.
(02:44):
Because while the industrychanges, one thing remains true.
Great stories told with passionwill always find their audience.
Let's explore what's comingnext.
Our guest, Jonathan Smith, is awriter, director, and producer
whose work spans independentfilm development and
(03:07):
forward-looking conversationsabout the evolving film
industry.
Known for his thoughtfulapproach to storytelling and
production, Jonathan has beenactively exploring how emerging
technologies, shifting studiostructures, and new distribution
models are reshapingopportunities for filmmakers.
(03:31):
As both a creative and astrategist, he brings a valuable
perspective on how filmmakerscan adapt to industry disruption
while staying true to theirartistic voice.
Jonathan is especiallyinterested in how independent
filmmakers can use new tools,including artificial
(03:55):
intelligence and evolvingdigital platforms, to develop
projects, reach audiences, andbuild sustainable careers in
filmmaking.
And Carol, I understand thatJonathan teaches for you on your
learn-producing bimonthly class.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yes, Claire, and all of us love Jonathan for his
expert ability to predict wherethe industry is going and to
show us how to thrive in chaos.
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Thank you for having me, both of you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
Okay, so let's get started with the changing studio
landscape.
Now the film industry has beengoing through enormous
structural change, and recentlywe've seen major developments
surrounding Paramount.
So from your perspective,Jonathan, what is this signal
about the direction the studiosystem is heading?
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Yeah, so I've talked about this in previous uh
webinars and previous classes,that what we're seeing the
studio system going towards iswe're seeing major studios just
simply sell and get out of thebusiness.
And the reason that we're seeingthat is the traditional studio
model that would work in thepast, all the way probably from
(05:19):
2000s um all the way back issimply changing and not working.
So uh Warner Brothers is lookingat the future and they
essentially just want to getout.
And the reason why Paramount andNetflix were interested is they
have other properties and otherum another tech companies that
they can utilize these IPs forand um utilize the characters,
(05:44):
worlds, and things from WarnerBrothers that can be utilized
for other projects.
So that's where we're going tosee more of a shift in.
And AI is going to be a big partof that.
Uh, in a sense, where people aregoing to spend less time, I
believe, in the theaters.
They're going to um want moreinteractive experiences.
(06:09):
And Paramount and different umcompanies and different tech
companies are positioningthemselves for that future.
Meta also, Netflix also.
So that's that's where we'reseeing the shift and the change.
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
Wow.
And you at one time you uh toldus that studio that theaters may
change entirely.
They may become a sales uhsource for the films they're
promoting.
Like one company, let's sayNetflix, uh, controls a theater
(06:45):
and all that they sell, thenthey would be selling their
subscription and products thatgo with the films they're
selling in the theater, right?
Is that still on board?
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
I believe it can happen, especially if um
theaters start are in danger ofgoing out of business or um a
major player like um AMC orCinemark is threatening to just
leave and get out of thebusiness, um, they're gonna have
to figure out a way.
Um I know that there's, Ibelieve the term is antitrust.
(07:21):
Someone can correct me if I'mwrong, but I believe there's
legal reasons why studios havenot been able to buy theaters.
But if a theater is threatenedto go out of business or file
for bankruptcy and completely umjust leave entirely, I think
there is a chance that we seeadjustments to that, and a big
(07:42):
player buys out one of thesetheaters and then does exactly
that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yes, so it becomes a point of sale place, and you
could uh have all kinds of uhevents that sponsor uh one uh
director or or one star, andpeople get involved in uh films
that way going back.
But they are going to have toreally do marketing to get you
(08:09):
in the theater, right?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Yeah, they'll still have to figure out a way to get
you to the theater, it could bemore interactive experiences, it
could be merchandise, it couldbe turning them more into like
restaurants or events.
Um, there'll probably be lesstheaters too as well.
So if you're not in a majorcity, there may be less
theaters, or you're gonna haveto count on independent
theaters, but independenttheaters have been losing ground
(08:31):
and losing um buildings andplaces to uh to have independent
theaters.
So um it's gonna be a veryinteresting five years.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Okay, so um historically, the studios
controlled the development, theproduction, and the
distribution.
Now, with this system shifting,do you think this opens doors
for independent filmmakers, oris it more challenges?
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
It's gonna be both.
I believe um within the nextfive years, we're already seeing
um incredible films.
I mean, even in when we just hadDSLR cameras, there were still
great films being made.
Um, the barriers are gonna getlower and lower to entry.
I think the challenge isn'tgonna be just making the film.
The challenge is gonna be is howdo people see it with so much
(09:24):
noise in the marketplace?
That's gonna be the challenge.
So, filmmakers and independentfilmmakers before trusted their
distributor to um help markettheir film, that if they did all
the work of financing, raisingit, uh making the film and
editing it and getting it readyfor post-production, that the
(09:44):
distributor would take care ofthat.
And I don't think that world isgoing to um completely exist for
most independent filmmakers,they're gonna have to figure out
the marketing side and the umsell side of it as well in order
to thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
So they're going to have to create an audience and
maintain, entertain, let's say,their audience while they're
making the film.
Um, but Jonathan, yes, I agreewith you because recently um a
filmmaker who was under thesponsorship from The Heart had
(10:17):
to raise the number of names onher uh social networking page by
a couple of thousand before thedistributor would take her,
right?
So this is they're gonna belooking at how many people do
you have uh on your socialnetworks, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Yeah, this is gonna be extremely important to
distributors.
Uh I talked to a recentfilmmaker recently that um his
audience that he's been buildingfor five to seven years has been
a great aid in gettingdistribution.
So it's a nice it's a necessityfor an independent filmmaker to
have some sort of audience now,or you're gonna have to figure
(10:57):
out how to eitherself-distribute and you know
take it from there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
Well, yes, actually, a self-distribution line Peter
Broderick talks about fordocumentarians is a wonderful
way to go after money that youdon't have to uh return and take
your film to its own audience byfinding that audience while
(11:23):
you're making the film.
So that may turn into howfeatures have to work, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
Yeah, it's gonna be the same for features.
And I think one of thechallenges independent
filmmakers are gonna have is,you know, what features are they
gonna make?
Are they gonna make a feature atall?
It doesn't make sense to to dothat.
And I believe you're gonna startseeing filmmakers play with
different um different screeningtimes.
(11:54):
Like, does the story need to be90 to 100 minutes like the
traditional theater model?
That was based on, you know,maximizing screen.
That was based on maximizing umpopcorn time, right?
And maximizing how many peoplecan get in the seats and clean
up the theater so you canmaximize the revenue for a
potential movie.
So with that out of the way formost filmmakers, I think you're
(12:16):
gonna start seeing people playwith um the amount of time they
need to film and make a movie.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Well, right, because vertical films uh that are
shorter uh are really getting alot of eyeballs, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
Yeah, vertical content is getting more
eyeballs, um, especially in theum sort of Hallmark drama um
sort of um genre, and then otherother genres are looking to
break into that ground, and plusyou have uh shorts and other
entertainment and YouTubedocumentaries and
(12:58):
self-improvement education.
There's just so much mediathat's out there now.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
So you're saying that they may find that 40
minutes or some unusual numberis uh the is the right number
for uh the new market, theonline market, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Could be.
I think it's gonna be dependenton your audience.
Like, you know, is it 20, is it30, is it 40?
Are you gonna present at acollege campus?
Is it gonna be online?
Are you looking at I thinkfilmmakers have to balance the
opportunity cost of what itcosts to make the film and the
audience, what they're willingto pay for and also to keep
(13:40):
their eyeballs on?
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Because you may not be able to get money from any
other distribution area.
You're going to have to make ityourself.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
Uh correct.
And making a 40-minute film is alot, not a lot, but it's cheaper
than making an hour and20-minute film, right?
That's less days on set, lesspeople, less crew, um, less time
editing and post-production.
So I think filmmakers are gonnahave to add these choices.
(14:12):
It just depends on like whattheir choice is and what they
want to do for this particularfilm or project.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Right.
Okay, well, and what do youthink about building a YouTube
platform?
You have to have money behindyou to do that, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:30):
No, we can start on YouTube today.
Like, you can just start andshare your thoughts, start
looking in your niche and seeingwhat's successful, and just
start making content.
There's nobody stopping you fromdoing that.
There's no one stopping you frombuilding your audience today and
seeing what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Great.
Well, that's what you're doing,right?
Is that the direction you'regoing in?
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
Yes, yes.
I've worked, I mean, we're we'regetting that into that later,
but I've been learning so much.
Um, Claude took a huge, um, tooka huge jump in like what you can
do and um information you canshare to Claude to help you
create content and to scale yourcontent.
There's so many tools out therenow that if you're willing to
(15:14):
take the time to learn, um, it'sgonna help you significantly if
you put put your mind to it andput the effort in.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Wonderful.
That's great.
Well, okay, let's get into um uhfilmmaking trying filmmakers
trying to finance their filmstoday.
So, what lessons should theytake from the instability and
the console uh consolidationthat's happening among the major
studios?
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
Um so as far as like financing, it depends.
Like, are you looking to financefrom the major studios?
You're probably gonna bedisappointed.
There's actually probably gonnabe more.
Pierre Mont doesn't like to talkabout it because the merger's
happening, but it happens allthe time with tech and different
companies.
They they never announce thelayoffs until after the sale has
(16:03):
gone through, and usually threeto four months after leadership
changes.
Um, so you're actually probablygonna see less financing from
the major studios on certainprojects until um there's a new
equilibrium, but I don't thinkthat equilibrium is going to be
uh particularly beneficial forfilmmakers trying to break into
the major studio system.
(16:25):
So filmmakers are gonna have todepend on themselves to finance
their films and their audiences.
I don't I don't just see afuture where a lot of major
studios are going to finance afilm unless there's a a proven
uh sort of track record.
And that could be your ownaudience, that could be an IP
(16:47):
that has done well.
Um, but I think the days ofhaving like a SPEC script that's
really interesting and reallygood, unless the studios like
see a major star, a majorsupport behind it.
But even then, there's there wasa talk recently where I think um
even Steven Spielberg says likenot all of his scripts get
through, or he has scripts thathe's very passionate about, and
(17:10):
there's just no one biting.
So it doesn't really matter whoyou are in this era right now.
It's it's difficult to getfinancing for your film.
SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
Okay, so for filmmakers who are out there
raising money to make their ownfilm, they really need to find
avenues for their owndistribution and and go into
this knowing uh that a threemillion dollar film may not be
able to be to recoup its uhmoney.
(17:40):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yeah, there was uh a filmmaker I talked to, he had
some decent stars and someTikTok stars, and uh they made
it for like three million and noone bit.
They were like 2.5 million inthe hole.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So their investors are nothappy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
And no, you have to know what's happening.
Uh so all right, let's talkabout AI and the rise of AI in
filmmaking because um artificialintelligence is entering almost
every part of filmmaking, fromscript development to reading
your script and giving youfeedback and then adding visual
(18:25):
effects and buildingstoryboards, etc.
So, what are the biggest changesthat you see coming in the next
five years?
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
Um, biggest changes we're still gonna see there's I
think one of the biggest,biggest changes is going to be
uh AI that you personally ownoff platform.
So that means that you're goingto have, like, for example,
there's Clain, there's Seedance,there's different AI video
(18:57):
models that you could use.
So I think in the future, peopleare going to train their own
models that are free ofcopyrighted material.
And once those models get goodenough, I think are going to see
a major shift in filmmakingwhere people can put their own
assets, whether that's theactors they choose, storyboards,
different scripts, and fromthere they'll build their own,
(19:21):
um, they'll build their own artthat's more protected.
And that we'll we'll see how theC dance, um, the C dance sort of
conflict between C dance and thestudios go.
And we'll see when C dance isallowed to release and how
powerful it is if there's um ifthere's some uh conflict between
(19:44):
the material they learned fromthe studios and the internet and
what and what the courts allow.
So that's going to be um themajor shift.
And I think you're also gonnasee less people required to make
a film, and um you're also goingto see hopefully, hopefully more
films.
I think it can actually bebeneficial as well.
(20:06):
It's not entirely scary, andit's gonna be a necessity thing
or a necessary thing because theamount of money independent
filmmakers are gonna be able tomake on one film uh is gonna be
difficult to um to beprofitable.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yes, so you have to be lean and mean, which is where
independent filmmakers came fromback in the 70s.
They were out shooting withoutuh having union people uh
stealing shots in the middle ofthe night of trains and things
like that they needed.
Uh, and that was the heart ofthe independent filmmaker.
So it we've gotten very softrecently because we had good
(20:47):
distribution models, but thennow they're falling apart.
So you have to get back tofinding ways to save money on
your production and work with atighter crew and use what you
can on AI, right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Yeah, and um, this is a you know a much more
complicated topic for this blog.
We talk about this in ourproducing class where we have
actual lessons and andbreakdowns of how you can do
these certain things, but uhjust realize I I I was working
with Claude recently and I fedit some of my data from past
(21:26):
scripts, notes that I've takenfrom screenwriting courses on
how to write beats, and Iprompted it in a way to ask me
questions on my thoughts andwhat I was thinking, and it was
amazing.
Like it was one of the bestbrainstorming partners I've ever
had for working on a screenplay,and it actually helped me break
some barriers and some um andsome uh writing um writing
(21:50):
blocks that I was having for aparticular story.
So it's it's incredible whatsome of these tools can do now.
And it's only 2026, right?
It's only March.
The jump from January to Marchhas been huge.
So just imagine the jump fromMarch to December.
SPEAKER_01 (22:08):
Right, right.
You know what we did um is weput in, you put in uh on the
learn producing clock course.
You can find that on from theheart's website, from the
heartproductions.com, under uhclasses is learn producing.
(22:29):
And that's where uh Jonathan'sbeen teaching us all about AI
and how what the benefits are,what are the best programs, etc.
So um the things that we'relearning is that um we just you
put in a documentary film andsaid, uh, tell me the grants
(22:51):
that are available for this.
And the amount of research youdid in less than two minutes was
incredible.
It would take human days to findthat information.
And then you said, turn thisinto an Excel file with uh the
dates, the deadline.
(23:12):
Dates, the content they want,uh, who, what the email address
is, what's the mailing address,and wham.
Everything was there.
That was astonishing, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
Yes.
And also importantly, you canalso tell it to um in the Excel
sheet, put where you got yoursources from so you can
cross-check it as well.
So you don't have to completelydepend on it too.
You can also use human insightto make sure that it did the
work correctly.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Right.
Um, okay, this is reallyimportant.
Uh, but now a lot of filmmakersare concerned that AI is
replacing creative jobs.
So do you see AI as a threat ora tool or both?
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
Um, both.
I think what you're seeing,you're not just seeing it in
film, you're seeing it in otherindustries as well, is there
people and businesses are goingto start asking for the top
people to just do more work.
So instead of them doing thework of one person, they'll ask
them to do the work of three.
So, for example, you may see uman editor have to do color
(24:24):
correction, balance out thesound, work on visual effects or
minor visual effects.
So those would have all beenfour or five different jobs, but
there's a chance, especially onsmaller films, that an editor
may be doing four or five jobs.
And I think that's what we'regoing to be seeing the most
(24:49):
danger as far as creative jobs.
It's not that I don't think AIis going to replace editors,
directors, or even actors orwriters anytime soon.
It's going to be the jobs belowthat, right?
The assistant jobs, things, jobsthat people used to break in.
I think those are going to bethe most in danger.
(25:10):
And to bring budgets down, bothindependently and in the large,
larger studio films, I thinkthey're going to ask the people
that are already doing well,they're going to ask them to do
more with the tools that we haveand to learn them and to train
on them.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Yes.
One time I saw that because whenI was running my company, I
dealt with major televisionstations.
And I always went and took themto lunch, and we had a wonderful
hour together, and it was amonthly thing.
So I go into the one of my uhsuppliers' offices to talk to
(25:51):
her, and she has this apple onher desk.
So I said, Where are we going tolunch today?
And she held up the apple andsaid, I'm eating at my desk
because we have laid off a lotof people.
I'm now doing two jobs, right?
And that's that was the end ofthe fun lunches and the happy
days are gone.
You same person, but they haveto work two more hours a day to
(26:16):
keep their job.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, or they're going to beentrepreneurial thinking people
that can say, oh, instead ofworking for one company, I can
work for three differentcompanies because I understand
to use these tools and peopledon't.
So I'm going to maximize thetime that we have now and I'm
going to do the work of threepeople.
(26:40):
Um, instead of just work withone company, I work with three
because I'm able to work quickerand faster than other people
are.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
And smarter.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
In fact, the point is, learn the programs that will
help you the most.
So can you give us an idea ofwhat some of those are?
One or two would be helpful.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
Um, if I had to start fresh again, I would learn
Claude, the whole Claude Suite,Claude Co-work, um, Claude chat,
like the regular Claude chatbot,Claude Code.
I would learn that first becauseyou that so far is the best one
I've seen where you can train iton your personal inform, like
(27:24):
personal written information.
Um, it's locked on yourcomputer, so they're not
training your their data on it.
And um that that would be theone where I would start playing
with first if I had to startover.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
I love my uh chat GPT, and I just learned how to
separate things.
You can have a whole separatefile on one subject so it will
not forget everything.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Um yeah, projects.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yes, projects.
Set up your projects.
If you don't know how to dothat, get I'm sure they'll tell
you on YouTube somewhere, right?
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
YouTube, or you know, of course, come to come to
our classes and we show you howto do these things step by step.
SPEAKER_01 (28:08):
Yes, I'm learn producing.
You can learn a lot.
Now, um yesterday I ran intothis post-production specialist
who she works out of uh Oxnard,California, and she's telling me
that the distributors she'sworking for do not want any
(28:30):
films with AI clips becausethey're afraid of legal aspects.
So what's this all about?
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Um, it's gonna depend on the distributor.
Also, I think it's going to bevery hard to fight it eventually
because um the brutalist used AIin their film in many different
forms and it got distribution.
That's like saying, oh, we'renot gonna take any films with
(29:00):
visual effects.
I think there's some concernright now for distributors using
AI, but if you're going to justnot learn AI and not use it
because you're concerned adistributor is going to do
something, these things aregonna change.
And also the power structure ofdistributors are already
changing, right?
(29:21):
Just because you get your filmdistributed doesn't mean it's
going to gather an audience ormake money.
So the idea that you're notgoing to learn or adapt because
a distributor may or may nottake your film, um, it's
probably not the best way.
Now, if you're partnering with adistributor from the beginning,
then yes, please ask them, hey,before we start filming, what is
(29:45):
acceptable with AI?
What contracts do you need?
What do we need to give you forpost-production to make sure
we're legally okay?
You're probably gonna need likeum financial insurance as well.
They're gonna probably ask forthat, but they already do um for
documentation and things likethat.
So that part hasn't changed.
If you're already working with adistributor or you plan to work
(30:07):
with a distributor, just askthem their AI policy and what
they need, but don't say, Oh,I'm not gonna learn this because
of this.
I think that's gonna put you waybehind.
SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
Right.
Well, if you're a director andyou're really all right brain,
find somebody that is a techiebecause that's where it's going.
You're gonna have to have boththe creativity and the
technology working together,right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Right, and I guarantee these large studios
are already using AI in ways youdon't know.
I went to um a conference threeyears ago and I saw a demo where
they could change the actors'facial expressions, um,
dialogue.
They can do localization wherethe diet where their mouth
matches the different languages,and that was three years ago.
(30:57):
They're using it in ways youdon't know.
So this idea that distributorsaren't taking AI stuff is just
wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Okay.
All right.
Well, with all these changes, doyou think the fundamentals of
storytelling are changing?
Or do great stories follow thesame principles they always
have?
And will they rise to the top?
SPEAKER_02 (31:22):
Uh, I think great stories will always thrive, and
I think the future is the lengthof stories, and I think people
are gonna be stories, meaningthat people are going to want to
um follow people and followideologies and beliefs and
belonging.
I think that's the future.
(31:43):
As AI decentralizes things, wedon't know how much is gonna um
change things.
We don't know if it's going tolead to complete unemployment or
if it's just going to lead to um10 to 20% unemployment, but
there's gonna be peoplesearching for belonging.
Um, this idea that AI we seem tobe in this era where it's either
(32:08):
AI is going to destroyeverything and everybody will be
UBI, or AI is completelyuseless.
No one's willing to admit thatthere's a possibility that it's
somewhere down the middle, andum people are gonna need to
search and find belonging.
And that's where I think storiescome in.
And I think um the change instory is going to be, and I
(32:29):
think all filmmakers are gonnahave to do that.
Is is like, how do you galvanizepeople to either a cause or your
story or make people feel likethey belong and what you're
doing?
I think that's the future.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
That's brilliant, Jonathan.
And to do that, you need to bepromoting yourself as the
filmmaker so they will followyou and uh and you are their
storyteller.
You become that part of theirlife where they are checking on
you all the time to see what'snew.
So it would be creator content,right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
Yes, and I mean you're just gonna build your own
story and marketing machine,that's where it's headed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
Say again, marketing machine, your own story and
marketing machine.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
You know, you can't, unless you have a lot of money,
you're not gonna be able to haveum, you're not gonna have a
studio or distributor to dependon to do the marketing for you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
Yes.
So you have to do it yourself.
Now you have to learn marketing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
Oh, great.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Well, that's one of the things we've been covering
in the Learn Producing program.
So, um, and you've been so goodwith teaching filmmakers about
AI, not to be afraid.
Check this out, you're gonnafind it helps.
Um, but what kind of knowledgedo filmmakers most urgently need
right now?
SPEAKER_02 (33:59):
I think people get too obsessed with tools.
I think you're better off tochange the way that you think.
And the people that I've seenmost successful with AI, um,
Carol, you'll probably relate tothis are business owners.
How do business owners think?
They think in systems.
They think like, okay, in orderto make this product, right, I
(34:23):
need these machines, I needthese parts, I need these people
to put these parts together.
They they systemize theirthinking.
And I think when it comes to AI,the people that are able to
systemize their thinking andsay, okay, these are the most
important factors, mycreativity, my ability to plan
(34:45):
and see things, my vision, theseare the most important things
and most things I shouldprioritize with my time.
And then to think of AI orfreelancers or whoever as um the
people that bring help bringthat vision to life.
So I think the people that aremore entrepreneurial thinking or
(35:05):
can think in systems are goingto be the ones to thrive.
And if you don't have that wayof thinking, um, you can learn,
you can practice, you can trydifferent things, you can map
out your current process of justliving your life.
Um, one thing I did in uh, youknow, early on um in my
(35:29):
educational journey was I tookgeoscience and that really
helped me visualize things andsystems.
And I believe people whovisualize things and systems are
going to thrive the most in thisage.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
Exactly.
This is how entrepreneurs thinkyou're so right.
Because from running a business,I had to create systems that
worked.
And when something went wrong,it was either a procedural
problem or a personnel problem,someone who didn't understand
their job, or I had created asystem that didn't work anymore,
(36:02):
something changed.
So we do we because if youreally want, it's like a
factory, Jonathan.
You have to think like you're afactory and you're producing
something, and it should takeonly so long, and this is what
you want to achieve.
And A does one thing and B doesanother, and it all works.
Um, so this is really methodicalthinking rather than the
(36:27):
overview that mostbright-brained people have on
the creative side.
But we don't want to lose that,that's what makes it so special.
But we need to integrate intofilm production more uh
entrepreneurial concepts likeyou're suggesting.
That's great.
(36:48):
Well, um, the Thrive programthat we just recently launched,
this is where filmmakers canaccess free educational
resources and then joinmembership tiers for deeper
mentoring and support.
So, what do you think aboutcommunities and mentorship uh in
today's landscape?
Do you think they are moreimportant than ever?
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
Yeah, I think they're more important than
ever.
And I think um, like I said,people are gonna want to find a
sense of belonging.
Um, I do think there's a lot ofbad content out there on social
media that is, you know, in youknow, better way to say it,
slop.
And communities and mentorshipare gonna be the best places to
find content.
And there's gonna be peoplewilling to pay to have that
(37:35):
sense of belonging and to getbetter information than what's
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
Yes, Jonathan.
I think that more than ever youneed uh a mentor, a
brainstorming partner, someonewho's not on your crew but can
give you, or someone who's run abusiness.
When I first started running uhfrom the heart to grants, I
realized that the 30 years ofrunning a business had given me
(38:06):
a lot of benefits to share withfilmmakers because they are
truly entrepreneurs, but theyare creative thinkers.
So getting the business sideeducation is um on the fly is
not easy.
So uh you need to talk to yoursponsor if you're physically
sponsored, or bring in someadvisors who run corporations,
(38:31):
right?
So you have the corporateconcept along with the creative.
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Yes, you're gonna need both.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Right.
So looking forward, if you couldgive independent filmmakers one
piece of advice about preparingfor the future of the film
industry, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Don't hold on to the past if it won't help you.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Thank you, Jonathan.
Tell us how we can find you.
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Uh, you can find me on Instagram at Malibu Cinema
and send me a DM.
That's probably the easiest wayto reach me.
Um, and then we're on Thrive,Carol and I.
So that's probably the secondeasiest way.
We're on there bi-weekly and Ianswer questions there.
I have so many projects andthings going on, it's harder to
reach me through phone or email.
(39:27):
Um, so the most effective way iseither on Thrive or at uh my
Instagram.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Okay, thank you so much, Jonathan, for sharing your
insights and helping filmmakersunderstand how they can navigate
this rapidly changing industry.
Because while technology andbusiness models are evolving,
one thing remains the same andwill never change.
And that is the power of afilmmaker with a vision.
(39:56):
You just get out of the waybecause they're gonna make that
film, with or without you.
So, as filmmakers, we live inone of the most extraordinary
times in the history ofstorytelling.
Yes, the industry is changing.
Studios are restructuring, andtechnology, like AI, is moving
faster than any of us expected.
(40:18):
But there is one thing that'sreally important to remember.
Filmmakers have always adapted.
We went from silent films tosound, from film stock to
digital, from theaters tostreaming.
And every time the industrychanges, new voices rise.
Storytellers get in there andthey find their way, and then
(40:41):
new opportunities appear forthose who are prepared.
And this is exactly whyeducation and community are so
important.
So, and from the HeartProductions, our mission has
always been to help filmmakersunderstand the landscape,
connect with the right people,and learn the tools that allow
them to bring their stories tolife.
(41:03):
So if you're listening today,you're already doing one of the
most important things you can doas a filmmaker.
You are learning, you arepreparing, and you are staying
aware of where the industry isgoing.
Because the future filmmakingwill belong to those who
understand both story, strategy,and entrepreneurial ship.
(41:25):
So keep creating, keep learning,and keep believing in the power
of your story.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Film Funding Podcast.
Jonathan, thank you so much.
And Claire Papin, thank you forbeing our co-host.
And remember, the film thatchanges everything may be the
(41:45):
one you create.
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Absolutely.
Thank you both for having me.
And we'd love to see you on theinside of Thrive or wherever we
meet.
SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
Join us on Thrive.
Thank you so much, Jonathan andClaire.
Today we're talking about the massive changes coming
to the film industry from AI tostudio ships and what you as an
independent filmmaker need tounderstand right now to survive
and thrive.
SPEAKER_00 (01:37):
Thank you for joining us on the Art of Film
Funding podcast.
I'm Claire Papan, your co-host.
This is where we explore thecreative and practical side of
getting films made.
Independent filmmakers arestanding at a fascinating
crossroads.
The film industry is shiftingfaster than ever.
(01:58):
Studios are merging.
Technology is transformingstorytelling.
Artificial intelligence israising both excitement and
concern.
And independent filmmakers areasking a very important
question.
Where do we fit in this newlandscape?
Today's guest brings a powerfulperspective to that
(02:22):
conversation.
We're going to talk about thefuture of filmmaking, what the
recent paramount developmentscould mean for creators, how AI
may reshape storytelling andproduction, and most
importantly, how independentfilmmakers can prepare
themselves to thrive.
(02:44):
Because while the industrychanges, one thing remains true.
Great stories told with passionwill always find their audience.
Let's explore what's comingnext.
Our guest, Jonathan Smith, is awriter, director, and producer
whose work spans independentfilm development and
(03:07):
forward-looking conversationsabout the evolving film
industry.
Known for his thoughtfulapproach to storytelling and
production, Jonathan has beenactively exploring how emerging
technologies, shifting studiostructures, and new distribution
models are reshapingopportunities for filmmakers.
(03:31):
As both a creative and astrategist, he brings a valuable
perspective on how filmmakerscan adapt to industry disruption
while staying true to theirartistic voice.
Jonathan is especiallyinterested in how independent
filmmakers can use new tools,including artificial
(03:55):
intelligence and evolvingdigital platforms, to develop
projects, reach audiences, andbuild sustainable careers in
filmmaking.
And Carol, I understand thatJonathan teaches for you on your
learn-producing bimonthly class.
SPEAKER_01 (04:14):
Yes, Claire, and all of us love Jonathan for his
expert ability to predict wherethe industry is going and to
show us how to thrive in chaos.
Thanks for joining us, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_02 (04:29):
Thank you for having me, both of you.
SPEAKER_01 (04:31):
Okay, so let's get started with the changing studio
landscape.
Now the film industry has beengoing through enormous
structural change, and recentlywe've seen major developments
surrounding Paramount.
So from your perspective,Jonathan, what is this signal
about the direction the studiosystem is heading?
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Yeah, so I've talked about this in previous uh
webinars and previous classes,that what we're seeing the
studio system going towards iswe're seeing major studios just
simply sell and get out of thebusiness.
And the reason that we're seeingthat is the traditional studio
model that would work in thepast, all the way probably from
(05:19):
2000s um all the way back issimply changing and not working.
So uh Warner Brothers is lookingat the future and they
essentially just want to getout.
And the reason why Paramount andNetflix were interested is they
have other properties and otherum another tech companies that
they can utilize these IPs forand um utilize the characters,
(05:44):
worlds, and things from WarnerBrothers that can be utilized
for other projects.
So that's where we're going tosee more of a shift in.
And AI is going to be a big partof that.
Uh, in a sense, where people aregoing to spend less time, I
believe, in the theaters.
They're going to um want moreinteractive experiences.
(06:09):
And Paramount and different umcompanies and different tech
companies are positioningthemselves for that future.
Meta also, Netflix also.
So that's that's where we'reseeing the shift and the change.
SPEAKER_01 (06:23):
Wow.
And you at one time you uh toldus that studio that theaters may
change entirely.
They may become a sales uhsource for the films they're
promoting.
Like one company, let's sayNetflix, uh, controls a theater
(06:45):
and all that they sell, thenthey would be selling their
subscription and products thatgo with the films they're
selling in the theater, right?
Is that still on board?
SPEAKER_02 (06:58):
I believe it can happen, especially if um
theaters start are in danger ofgoing out of business or um a
major player like um AMC orCinemark is threatening to just
leave and get out of thebusiness, um, they're gonna have
to figure out a way.
Um I know that there's, Ibelieve the term is antitrust.
(07:21):
Someone can correct me if I'mwrong, but I believe there's
legal reasons why studios havenot been able to buy theaters.
But if a theater is threatenedto go out of business or file
for bankruptcy and completely umjust leave entirely, I think
there is a chance that we seeadjustments to that, and a big
(07:42):
player buys out one of thesetheaters and then does exactly
that.
SPEAKER_01 (07:47):
Yes, so it becomes a point of sale place, and you
could uh have all kinds of uhevents that sponsor uh one uh
director or or one star, andpeople get involved in uh films
that way going back.
But they are going to have toreally do marketing to get you
(08:09):
in the theater, right?
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Yeah, they'll still have to figure out a way to get
you to the theater, it could bemore interactive experiences, it
could be merchandise, it couldbe turning them more into like
restaurants or events.
Um, there'll probably be lesstheaters too as well.
So if you're not in a majorcity, there may be less
theaters, or you're gonna haveto count on independent
theaters, but independenttheaters have been losing ground
(08:31):
and losing um buildings andplaces to uh to have independent
theaters.
So um it's gonna be a veryinteresting five years.
SPEAKER_01 (08:42):
Okay, so um historically, the studios
controlled the development, theproduction, and the
distribution.
Now, with this system shifting,do you think this opens doors
for independent filmmakers, oris it more challenges?
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
It's gonna be both.
I believe um within the nextfive years, we're already seeing
um incredible films.
I mean, even in when we just hadDSLR cameras, there were still
great films being made.
Um, the barriers are gonna getlower and lower to entry.
I think the challenge isn'tgonna be just making the film.
The challenge is gonna be is howdo people see it with so much
(09:24):
noise in the marketplace?
That's gonna be the challenge.
So, filmmakers and independentfilmmakers before trusted their
distributor to um help markettheir film, that if they did all
the work of financing, raisingit, uh making the film and
editing it and getting it readyfor post-production, that the
(09:44):
distributor would take care ofthat.
And I don't think that world isgoing to um completely exist for
most independent filmmakers,they're gonna have to figure out
the marketing side and the umsell side of it as well in order
to thrive.
SPEAKER_01 (09:57):
So they're going to have to create an audience and
maintain, entertain, let's say,their audience while they're
making the film.
Um, but Jonathan, yes, I agreewith you because recently um a
filmmaker who was under thesponsorship from The Heart had
(10:17):
to raise the number of names onher uh social networking page by
a couple of thousand before thedistributor would take her,
right?
So this is they're gonna belooking at how many people do
you have uh on your socialnetworks, right?
SPEAKER_02 (10:37):
Yeah, this is gonna be extremely important to
distributors.
Uh I talked to a recentfilmmaker recently that um his
audience that he's been buildingfor five to seven years has been
a great aid in gettingdistribution.
So it's a nice it's a necessityfor an independent filmmaker to
have some sort of audience now,or you're gonna have to figure
(10:57):
out how to eitherself-distribute and you know
take it from there.
SPEAKER_01 (11:02):
Well, yes, actually, a self-distribution line Peter
Broderick talks about fordocumentarians is a wonderful
way to go after money that youdon't have to uh return and take
your film to its own audience byfinding that audience while
(11:23):
you're making the film.
So that may turn into howfeatures have to work, right?
SPEAKER_02 (11:32):
Yeah, it's gonna be the same for features.
And I think one of thechallenges independent
filmmakers are gonna have is,you know, what features are they
gonna make?
Are they gonna make a feature atall?
It doesn't make sense to to dothat.
And I believe you're gonna startseeing filmmakers play with
different um different screeningtimes.
(11:54):
Like, does the story need to be90 to 100 minutes like the
traditional theater model?
That was based on, you know,maximizing screen.
That was based on maximizing umpopcorn time, right?
And maximizing how many peoplecan get in the seats and clean
up the theater so you canmaximize the revenue for a
potential movie.
So with that out of the way formost filmmakers, I think you're
(12:16):
gonna start seeing people playwith um the amount of time they
need to film and make a movie.
SPEAKER_01 (12:23):
Well, right, because vertical films uh that are
shorter uh are really getting alot of eyeballs, right?
SPEAKER_02 (12:34):
Yeah, vertical content is getting more
eyeballs, um, especially in theum sort of Hallmark drama um
sort of um genre, and then otherother genres are looking to
break into that ground, and plusyou have uh shorts and other
entertainment and YouTubedocumentaries and
(12:58):
self-improvement education.
There's just so much mediathat's out there now.
SPEAKER_01 (13:04):
So you're saying that they may find that 40
minutes or some unusual numberis uh the is the right number
for uh the new market, theonline market, right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:19):
Could be.
I think it's gonna be dependenton your audience.
Like, you know, is it 20, is it30, is it 40?
Are you gonna present at acollege campus?
Is it gonna be online?
Are you looking at I thinkfilmmakers have to balance the
opportunity cost of what itcosts to make the film and the
audience, what they're willingto pay for and also to keep
(13:40):
their eyeballs on?
SPEAKER_01 (13:42):
Because you may not be able to get money from any
other distribution area.
You're going to have to make ityourself.
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (13:51):
Uh correct.
And making a 40-minute film is alot, not a lot, but it's cheaper
than making an hour and20-minute film, right?
That's less days on set, lesspeople, less crew, um, less time
editing and post-production.
So I think filmmakers are gonnahave to add these choices.
(14:12):
It just depends on like whattheir choice is and what they
want to do for this particularfilm or project.
SPEAKER_01 (14:19):
Right.
Okay, well, and what do youthink about building a YouTube
platform?
You have to have money behindyou to do that, right?
SPEAKER_02 (14:30):
No, we can start on YouTube today.
Like, you can just start andshare your thoughts, start
looking in your niche and seeingwhat's successful, and just
start making content.
There's nobody stopping you fromdoing that.
There's no one stopping you frombuilding your audience today and
seeing what happens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:49):
Great.
Well, that's what you're doing,right?
Is that the direction you'regoing in?
SPEAKER_02 (14:54):
Yes, yes.
I've worked, I mean, we're we'regetting that into that later,
but I've been learning so much.
Um, Claude took a huge, um, tooka huge jump in like what you can
do and um information you canshare to Claude to help you
create content and to scale yourcontent.
There's so many tools out therenow that if you're willing to
(15:14):
take the time to learn, um, it'sgonna help you significantly if
you put put your mind to it andput the effort in.
SPEAKER_01 (15:22):
Wonderful.
That's great.
Well, okay, let's get into um uhfilmmaking trying filmmakers
trying to finance their filmstoday.
So, what lessons should theytake from the instability and
the console uh consolidationthat's happening among the major
studios?
SPEAKER_02 (15:43):
Um so as far as like financing, it depends.
Like, are you looking to financefrom the major studios?
You're probably gonna bedisappointed.
There's actually probably gonnabe more.
Pierre Mont doesn't like to talkabout it because the merger's
happening, but it happens allthe time with tech and different
companies.
They they never announce thelayoffs until after the sale has
(16:03):
gone through, and usually threeto four months after leadership
changes.
Um, so you're actually probablygonna see less financing from
the major studios on certainprojects until um there's a new
equilibrium, but I don't thinkthat equilibrium is going to be
uh particularly beneficial forfilmmakers trying to break into
the major studio system.
(16:25):
So filmmakers are gonna have todepend on themselves to finance
their films and their audiences.
I don't I don't just see afuture where a lot of major
studios are going to finance afilm unless there's a a proven
uh sort of track record.
And that could be your ownaudience, that could be an IP
(16:47):
that has done well.
Um, but I think the days ofhaving like a SPEC script that's
really interesting and reallygood, unless the studios like
see a major star, a majorsupport behind it.
But even then, there's there wasa talk recently where I think um
even Steven Spielberg says likenot all of his scripts get
through, or he has scripts thathe's very passionate about, and
(17:10):
there's just no one biting.
So it doesn't really matter whoyou are in this era right now.
It's it's difficult to getfinancing for your film.
SPEAKER_01 (17:19):
Okay, so for filmmakers who are out there
raising money to make their ownfilm, they really need to find
avenues for their owndistribution and and go into
this knowing uh that a threemillion dollar film may not be
able to be to recoup its uhmoney.
(17:40):
Is that right?
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
Yeah, there was uh a filmmaker I talked to, he had
some decent stars and someTikTok stars, and uh they made
it for like three million and noone bit.
They were like 2.5 million inthe hole.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah.
So their investors are nothappy.
SPEAKER_01 (18:03):
And no, you have to know what's happening.
Uh so all right, let's talkabout AI and the rise of AI in
filmmaking because um artificialintelligence is entering almost
every part of filmmaking, fromscript development to reading
your script and giving youfeedback and then adding visual
(18:25):
effects and buildingstoryboards, etc.
So, what are the biggest changesthat you see coming in the next
five years?
SPEAKER_02 (18:35):
Um, biggest changes we're still gonna see there's I
think one of the biggest,biggest changes is going to be
uh AI that you personally ownoff platform.
So that means that you're goingto have, like, for example,
there's Clain, there's Seedance,there's different AI video
(18:57):
models that you could use.
So I think in the future, peopleare going to train their own
models that are free ofcopyrighted material.
And once those models get goodenough, I think are going to see
a major shift in filmmakingwhere people can put their own
assets, whether that's theactors they choose, storyboards,
different scripts, and fromthere they'll build their own,
(19:21):
um, they'll build their own artthat's more protected.
And that we'll we'll see how theC dance, um, the C dance sort of
conflict between C dance and thestudios go.
And we'll see when C dance isallowed to release and how
powerful it is if there's um ifthere's some uh conflict between
(19:44):
the material they learned fromthe studios and the internet and
what and what the courts allow.
So that's going to be um themajor shift.
And I think you're also gonnasee less people required to make
a film, and um you're also goingto see hopefully, hopefully more
films.
I think it can actually bebeneficial as well.
(20:06):
It's not entirely scary, andit's gonna be a necessity thing
or a necessary thing because theamount of money independent
filmmakers are gonna be able tomake on one film uh is gonna be
difficult to um to beprofitable.
SPEAKER_01 (20:21):
Yes, so you have to be lean and mean, which is where
independent filmmakers came fromback in the 70s.
They were out shooting withoutuh having union people uh
stealing shots in the middle ofthe night of trains and things
like that they needed.
Uh, and that was the heart ofthe independent filmmaker.
So it we've gotten very softrecently because we had good
(20:47):
distribution models, but thennow they're falling apart.
So you have to get back tofinding ways to save money on
your production and work with atighter crew and use what you
can on AI, right?
SPEAKER_02 (21:04):
Yeah, and um, this is a you know a much more
complicated topic for this blog.
We talk about this in ourproducing class where we have
actual lessons and andbreakdowns of how you can do
these certain things, but uhjust realize I I I was working
with Claude recently and I fedit some of my data from past
(21:26):
scripts, notes that I've takenfrom screenwriting courses on
how to write beats, and Iprompted it in a way to ask me
questions on my thoughts andwhat I was thinking, and it was
amazing.
Like it was one of the bestbrainstorming partners I've ever
had for working on a screenplay,and it actually helped me break
some barriers and some um andsome uh writing um writing
(21:50):
blocks that I was having for aparticular story.
So it's it's incredible whatsome of these tools can do now.
And it's only 2026, right?
It's only March.
The jump from January to Marchhas been huge.
So just imagine the jump fromMarch to December.
SPEAKER_01 (22:08):
Right, right.
You know what we did um is weput in, you put in uh on the
learn producing clock course.
You can find that on from theheart's website, from the
heartproductions.com, under uhclasses is learn producing.
(22:29):
And that's where uh Jonathan'sbeen teaching us all about AI
and how what the benefits are,what are the best programs, etc.
So um the things that we'relearning is that um we just you
put in a documentary film andsaid, uh, tell me the grants
(22:51):
that are available for this.
And the amount of research youdid in less than two minutes was
incredible.
It would take human days to findthat information.
And then you said, turn thisinto an Excel file with uh the
dates, the deadline.
(23:12):
Dates, the content they want,uh, who, what the email address
is, what's the mailing address,and wham.
Everything was there.
That was astonishing, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_02 (23:25):
Yes.
And also importantly, you canalso tell it to um in the Excel
sheet, put where you got yoursources from so you can
cross-check it as well.
So you don't have to completelydepend on it too.
You can also use human insightto make sure that it did the
work correctly.
SPEAKER_01 (23:43):
Right.
Um, okay, this is reallyimportant.
Uh, but now a lot of filmmakersare concerned that AI is
replacing creative jobs.
So do you see AI as a threat ora tool or both?
SPEAKER_02 (23:59):
Um, both.
I think what you're seeing,you're not just seeing it in
film, you're seeing it in otherindustries as well, is there
people and businesses are goingto start asking for the top
people to just do more work.
So instead of them doing thework of one person, they'll ask
them to do the work of three.
So, for example, you may see uman editor have to do color
(24:24):
correction, balance out thesound, work on visual effects or
minor visual effects.
So those would have all beenfour or five different jobs, but
there's a chance, especially onsmaller films, that an editor
may be doing four or five jobs.
And I think that's what we'regoing to be seeing the most
(24:49):
danger as far as creative jobs.
It's not that I don't think AIis going to replace editors,
directors, or even actors orwriters anytime soon.
It's going to be the jobs belowthat, right?
The assistant jobs, things, jobsthat people used to break in.
I think those are going to bethe most in danger.
(25:10):
And to bring budgets down, bothindependently and in the large,
larger studio films, I thinkthey're going to ask the people
that are already doing well,they're going to ask them to do
more with the tools that we haveand to learn them and to train
on them.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Yes.
One time I saw that because whenI was running my company, I
dealt with major televisionstations.
And I always went and took themto lunch, and we had a wonderful
hour together, and it was amonthly thing.
So I go into the one of my uhsuppliers' offices to talk to
(25:51):
her, and she has this apple onher desk.
So I said, Where are we going tolunch today?
And she held up the apple andsaid, I'm eating at my desk
because we have laid off a lotof people.
I'm now doing two jobs, right?
And that's that was the end ofthe fun lunches and the happy
days are gone.
You same person, but they haveto work two more hours a day to
(26:16):
keep their job.
SPEAKER_02 (26:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, or they're going to beentrepreneurial thinking people
that can say, oh, instead ofworking for one company, I can
work for three differentcompanies because I understand
to use these tools and peopledon't.
So I'm going to maximize thetime that we have now and I'm
going to do the work of threepeople.
(26:40):
Um, instead of just work withone company, I work with three
because I'm able to work quickerand faster than other people
are.
SPEAKER_01 (26:49):
And smarter.
Yes.
SPEAKER_02 (26:51):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:52):
In fact, the point is, learn the programs that will
help you the most.
So can you give us an idea ofwhat some of those are?
One or two would be helpful.
SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
Um, if I had to start fresh again, I would learn
Claude, the whole Claude Suite,Claude Co-work, um, Claude chat,
like the regular Claude chatbot,Claude Code.
I would learn that first becauseyou that so far is the best one
I've seen where you can train iton your personal inform, like
(27:24):
personal written information.
Um, it's locked on yourcomputer, so they're not
training your their data on it.
And um that that would be theone where I would start playing
with first if I had to startover.
SPEAKER_01 (27:39):
I love my uh chat GPT, and I just learned how to
separate things.
You can have a whole separatefile on one subject so it will
not forget everything.
SPEAKER_02 (27:51):
Um yeah, projects.
SPEAKER_01 (27:53):
Yes, projects.
Set up your projects.
If you don't know how to dothat, get I'm sure they'll tell
you on YouTube somewhere, right?
SPEAKER_02 (28:02):
YouTube, or you know, of course, come to come to
our classes and we show you howto do these things step by step.
SPEAKER_01 (28:08):
Yes, I'm learn producing.
You can learn a lot.
Now, um yesterday I ran intothis post-production specialist
who she works out of uh Oxnard,California, and she's telling me
that the distributors she'sworking for do not want any
(28:30):
films with AI clips becausethey're afraid of legal aspects.
So what's this all about?
SPEAKER_02 (28:39):
Um, it's gonna depend on the distributor.
Also, I think it's going to bevery hard to fight it eventually
because um the brutalist used AIin their film in many different
forms and it got distribution.
That's like saying, oh, we'renot gonna take any films with
(29:00):
visual effects.
I think there's some concernright now for distributors using
AI, but if you're going to justnot learn AI and not use it
because you're concerned adistributor is going to do
something, these things aregonna change.
And also the power structure ofdistributors are already
changing, right?
(29:21):
Just because you get your filmdistributed doesn't mean it's
going to gather an audience ormake money.
So the idea that you're notgoing to learn or adapt because
a distributor may or may nottake your film, um, it's
probably not the best way.
Now, if you're partnering with adistributor from the beginning,
then yes, please ask them, hey,before we start filming, what is
(29:45):
acceptable with AI?
What contracts do you need?
What do we need to give you forpost-production to make sure
we're legally okay?
You're probably gonna need likeum financial insurance as well.
They're gonna probably ask forthat, but they already do um for
documentation and things likethat.
So that part hasn't changed.
If you're already working with adistributor or you plan to work
(30:07):
with a distributor, just askthem their AI policy and what
they need, but don't say, Oh,I'm not gonna learn this because
of this.
I think that's gonna put you waybehind.
SPEAKER_01 (30:18):
Right.
Well, if you're a director andyou're really all right brain,
find somebody that is a techiebecause that's where it's going.
You're gonna have to have boththe creativity and the
technology working together,right?
SPEAKER_02 (30:34):
Right, and I guarantee these large studios
are already using AI in ways youdon't know.
I went to um a conference threeyears ago and I saw a demo where
they could change the actors'facial expressions, um,
dialogue.
They can do localization wherethe diet where their mouth
matches the different languages,and that was three years ago.
(30:57):
They're using it in ways youdon't know.
So this idea that distributorsaren't taking AI stuff is just
wrong.
SPEAKER_01 (31:04):
Okay.
All right.
Well, with all these changes, doyou think the fundamentals of
storytelling are changing?
Or do great stories follow thesame principles they always
have?
And will they rise to the top?
SPEAKER_02 (31:22):
Uh, I think great stories will always thrive, and
I think the future is the lengthof stories, and I think people
are gonna be stories, meaningthat people are going to want to
um follow people and followideologies and beliefs and
belonging.
I think that's the future.
(31:43):
As AI decentralizes things, wedon't know how much is gonna um
change things.
We don't know if it's going tolead to complete unemployment or
if it's just going to lead to um10 to 20% unemployment, but
there's gonna be peoplesearching for belonging.
Um, this idea that AI we seem tobe in this era where it's either
(32:08):
AI is going to destroyeverything and everybody will be
UBI, or AI is completelyuseless.
No one's willing to admit thatthere's a possibility that it's
somewhere down the middle, andum people are gonna need to
search and find belonging.
And that's where I think storiescome in.
And I think um the change instory is going to be, and I
(32:29):
think all filmmakers are gonnahave to do that.
Is is like, how do you galvanizepeople to either a cause or your
story or make people feel likethey belong and what you're
doing?
I think that's the future.
SPEAKER_01 (32:45):
That's brilliant, Jonathan.
And to do that, you need to bepromoting yourself as the
filmmaker so they will followyou and uh and you are their
storyteller.
You become that part of theirlife where they are checking on
you all the time to see what'snew.
So it would be creator content,right?
SPEAKER_02 (33:09):
Yes, and I mean you're just gonna build your own
story and marketing machine,that's where it's headed.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
Say again, marketing machine, your own story and
marketing machine.
SPEAKER_02 (33:20):
You know, you can't, unless you have a lot of money,
you're not gonna be able to haveum, you're not gonna have a
studio or distributor to dependon to do the marketing for you.
SPEAKER_01 (33:31):
Yes.
So you have to do it yourself.
Now you have to learn marketing.
SPEAKER_02 (33:36):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:38):
Oh, great.
SPEAKER_02 (33:39):
Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01 (33:40):
Well, that's one of the things we've been covering
in the Learn Producing program.
So, um, and you've been so goodwith teaching filmmakers about
AI, not to be afraid.
Check this out, you're gonnafind it helps.
Um, but what kind of knowledgedo filmmakers most urgently need
right now?
SPEAKER_02 (33:59):
I think people get too obsessed with tools.
I think you're better off tochange the way that you think.
And the people that I've seenmost successful with AI, um,
Carol, you'll probably relate tothis are business owners.
How do business owners think?
They think in systems.
They think like, okay, in orderto make this product, right, I
(34:23):
need these machines, I needthese parts, I need these people
to put these parts together.
They they systemize theirthinking.
And I think when it comes to AI,the people that are able to
systemize their thinking andsay, okay, these are the most
important factors, mycreativity, my ability to plan
(34:45):
and see things, my vision, theseare the most important things
and most things I shouldprioritize with my time.
And then to think of AI orfreelancers or whoever as um the
people that bring help bringthat vision to life.
So I think the people that aremore entrepreneurial thinking or
(35:05):
can think in systems are goingto be the ones to thrive.
And if you don't have that wayof thinking, um, you can learn,
you can practice, you can trydifferent things, you can map
out your current process of justliving your life.
Um, one thing I did in uh, youknow, early on um in my
(35:29):
educational journey was I tookgeoscience and that really
helped me visualize things andsystems.
And I believe people whovisualize things and systems are
going to thrive the most in thisage.
SPEAKER_01 (35:42):
Exactly.
This is how entrepreneurs thinkyou're so right.
Because from running a business,I had to create systems that
worked.
And when something went wrong,it was either a procedural
problem or a personnel problem,someone who didn't understand
their job, or I had created asystem that didn't work anymore,
(36:02):
something changed.
So we do we because if youreally want, it's like a
factory, Jonathan.
You have to think like you're afactory and you're producing
something, and it should takeonly so long, and this is what
you want to achieve.
And A does one thing and B doesanother, and it all works.
Um, so this is really methodicalthinking rather than the
(36:27):
overview that mostbright-brained people have on
the creative side.
But we don't want to lose that,that's what makes it so special.
But we need to integrate intofilm production more uh
entrepreneurial concepts likeyou're suggesting.
That's great.
(36:48):
Well, um, the Thrive programthat we just recently launched,
this is where filmmakers canaccess free educational
resources and then joinmembership tiers for deeper
mentoring and support.
So, what do you think aboutcommunities and mentorship uh in
today's landscape?
Do you think they are moreimportant than ever?
SPEAKER_02 (37:11):
Yeah, I think they're more important than
ever.
And I think um, like I said,people are gonna want to find a
sense of belonging.
Um, I do think there's a lot ofbad content out there on social
media that is, you know, in youknow, better way to say it,
slop.
And communities and mentorshipare gonna be the best places to
find content.
And there's gonna be peoplewilling to pay to have that
(37:35):
sense of belonging and to getbetter information than what's
out there.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
Yes, Jonathan.
I think that more than ever youneed uh a mentor, a
brainstorming partner, someonewho's not on your crew but can
give you, or someone who's run abusiness.
When I first started running uhfrom the heart to grants, I
realized that the 30 years ofrunning a business had given me
(38:06):
a lot of benefits to share withfilmmakers because they are
truly entrepreneurs, but theyare creative thinkers.
So getting the business sideeducation is um on the fly is
not easy.
So uh you need to talk to yoursponsor if you're physically
sponsored, or bring in someadvisors who run corporations,
(38:31):
right?
So you have the corporateconcept along with the creative.
SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
Yes, you're gonna need both.
SPEAKER_01 (38:41):
Right.
So looking forward, if you couldgive independent filmmakers one
piece of advice about preparingfor the future of the film
industry, what would that be?
SPEAKER_02 (38:53):
Don't hold on to the past if it won't help you.
SPEAKER_01 (39:01):
Thank you, Jonathan.
Tell us how we can find you.
SPEAKER_02 (39:05):
Uh, you can find me on Instagram at Malibu Cinema
and send me a DM.
That's probably the easiest wayto reach me.
Um, and then we're on Thrive,Carol and I.
So that's probably the secondeasiest way.
We're on there bi-weekly and Ianswer questions there.
I have so many projects andthings going on, it's harder to
reach me through phone or email.
(39:27):
Um, so the most effective way iseither on Thrive or at uh my
Instagram.
SPEAKER_01 (39:34):
Okay, thank you so much, Jonathan, for sharing your
insights and helping filmmakersunderstand how they can navigate
this rapidly changing industry.
Because while technology andbusiness models are evolving,
one thing remains the same andwill never change.
And that is the power of afilmmaker with a vision.
(39:56):
You just get out of the waybecause they're gonna make that
film, with or without you.
So, as filmmakers, we live inone of the most extraordinary
times in the history ofstorytelling.
Yes, the industry is changing.
Studios are restructuring, andtechnology, like AI, is moving
faster than any of us expected.
(40:18):
But there is one thing that'sreally important to remember.
Filmmakers have always adapted.
We went from silent films tosound, from film stock to
digital, from theaters tostreaming.
And every time the industrychanges, new voices rise.
Storytellers get in there andthey find their way, and then
(40:41):
new opportunities appear forthose who are prepared.
And this is exactly whyeducation and community are so
important.
So, and from the HeartProductions, our mission has
always been to help filmmakersunderstand the landscape,
connect with the right people,and learn the tools that allow
them to bring their stories tolife.
(41:03):
So if you're listening today,you're already doing one of the
most important things you can doas a filmmaker.
You are learning, you arepreparing, and you are staying
aware of where the industry isgoing.
Because the future filmmakingwill belong to those who
understand both story, strategy,and entrepreneurial ship.
(41:25):
So keep creating, keep learning,and keep believing in the power
of your story.
Thank you for joining us todayon the Film Funding Podcast.
Jonathan, thank you so much.
And Claire Papin, thank you forbeing our co-host.
And remember, the film thatchanges everything may be the
(41:45):
one you create.
SPEAKER_02 (41:49):
Absolutely.
Thank you both for having me.
And we'd love to see you on theinside of Thrive or wherever we
meet.
SPEAKER_01 (41:57):
Join us on Thrive.
Thank you so much, Jonathan andClaire.
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