August 5, 2026 • 60 mins
Today, we are talking with Irina Chernikina, producer/director/writer, about one of the most important—and often misunderstood—roles in independent filmmaking: the producer. What does an independent producer actually do? How does a producer guide a film from its earliest development through production and post-production?
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
If you're waiting for a magical producer to
discover your film and makeeverything happen, well today's
conversation may completelychange how you approach your
filmmaking career.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
So glad you could join us here on the Art of Film
Funding podcast.
I'm your co-host, Claire Papan,along with writer and producer
Carol Dean, author of thebest-selling book, The Art of
Film Funding, and president ofFrom the Heart Productions.
For more than 30 years, From theHeart Productions has supported
(01:52):
independent filmmakers throughthe Roy W.
Dean grant, fiscal sponsorship,educational programs,
consultations, and resourcesdesigned to help filmmakers fund
and complete their projects.
Today we're talking about one ofthe most important and often
(02:14):
misunderstood roles inindependent filmmaking, the
producer.
What does an independentproducer actually do?
How does a producer guide a filmfrom its earliest development
through production andpost-production?
We'll also discuss a commonmisconception about filmmakers:
(02:37):
the belief that a magicalproducer will suddenly discover
their project, raise all themoney, assemble the perfect
team, and make everythinghappen.
The reality is that today'sindependent filmmakers often
need to become producers oftheir own work.
(02:57):
Learning to produce meansunderstanding how to build your
project, create a strategy,assemble the right
collaborators, and maintaincontrol over your film.
Our guest is consulting producerIrina Chinekina, an experienced
(03:19):
filmmaker who's worked inproducing, directing, writing,
and editing for more than twodecades.
Irina specializes in helpingindependent filmmakers
understand the practical processof moving a project from
development throughpost-production.
(03:39):
She brings first-hand knowledgeof how low and micro-budget
filmmaking, project packaging,budgeting, scheduling,
fundraising, preparation, andbuilding the materials a film
needs to attract supporters andmove forward.
Today, Irina will share her ownjourney to becoming a producer,
(04:04):
explain what the producer's jobreally entails, and offer
practical guidance forfilmmakers who are ready to stop
waiting to be discovered andbegin taking responsibility for
bringing their stories to thescreen.
Carol, I am really excited aboutthis conversation.
(04:25):
Please introduce Irina and takeit away on today's interview.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Thank you, Claire.
Yeah, Irina, welcome to the Artof Film Funding.
I'm delighted to have you withus.
This is a really importantsubject because many filmmakers
have a great idea, meaningfulstory, even a completed
screenplay, but they do notfully understand what to do
next.
So today we're taking ourlisteners through the
(04:52):
independent producer's journey,from the first idea to the
developer process throughfinancing production, post, and
completion.
So let's start with your journeyto producing, because I know as
a producer, director, writer,and editor that you've been in
(05:12):
the business for over 20 years.
So how did you enter the filmindustry and what led you to
become an independent producer?
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Thank you so much, uh, Caroline, for having me.
It's wonderful to be back.
Um yes, it's kind of uhunbelievable, it's been so long.
And um being an independentfilmmaker in particular, um,
pretty much staying away fromthe uh industry uh as a whole,
uh, my perspective might be alittle bit different, and
(05:43):
experience might be a little bitdifferent.
Um I started uh with um you knowfilm school.
So I did uh get my BM, uh BA inum uh film studies.
I went to Hunter College, whichis a fantastic uh film school uh
in New York City.
But unlike um, let's say maybeNYU or Columbia, we did not have
(06:07):
a mentorship program there.
So once we learned all about uhthe art of filmmaking and the
technical aspects, uh we werebasically on our own.
Nobody taught us the businessside of the business, uh film
business.
And we were trying to figure outhow to make films on our own.
Um, so myself and my classmates,uh, we teamed up, we were making
(06:32):
short films, and somehow fromthe very beginning, I just
naturally fell into producing.
Uh, there was never even aquestion that you can just
simply entrust uh that processin someone else's hands.
Of course, you know, producingon that level is very different
from producing on a largerproduction, right?
(06:53):
Because uh you're dealing withno budget, uh, whatever
resources uh the school providesyou, and you have to figure it
out, you have to make it happen.
Um and um um at that point, theproducing involves even things
like uh finding locations,right?
You don't have a locationscouter for you, you have to do
(07:16):
it yourself.
Uh during the shoot, you uh haveto make sure that everyone is
well fed.
So you even do things like that.
You know, you might end upcooking things, buying things,
right?
Everything is on your shoulders.
Uh, and of course, at the sametime, most likely, you're also a
director of the project becauseit's your creative uh vision,
(07:36):
and it's very challenging in uhbalancing the two.
Uh so from the very beginning, Ithink it's essential to build
your team, to have that support,uh, but also be realistic that
uh people that you're workingwith also lack experience, and
we kind of are all together inthis boat uh figuring things
(07:56):
out.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
Um that's so true.
Yes, well said.
I I have to laugh because yes,everybody gets together and
figures it out, and because itis such a coordinated
collaborative process, right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Um, and um I guess the nextstep, you know, once uh you uh
graduate right now you own yourown.
And um uh from that point on Iguess you know it was a balance
(08:36):
because you have your owncreative projects, but also you
need to make money, right?
Uh so for money, I fell intomore corporate uh work, uh doing
corporate videos, educational,you know, done a lot of
educational videos and such.
And then uh the creativeprojects, uh mostly narrative
projects, um, were kind of aalmost like a side hassle that
(08:58):
you do on a time when uh thetime is available.
Um, so it's unfortunate, butthat happens a lot, uh, that the
actual uh filmmaking is treatedalmost like a hobby, right?
Because we're all artists and weneed to survive.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
Right.
Right.
So was there a particularproject or a turning point when
you realized that you could notsimply wait for someone else to
make things happen when and youneeded to learn how to produce
on your own?
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
I mean, even though, yes, I've been producing from
the beginning, uh, but there wasa point uh where I kind of tried
to walk away from film.
And uh those couple of yearswere absolutely miserable.
And uh when I made the decisionto come back and now focus um
specifically on narratives anduh now more focus of feature
(09:54):
uh-length films, uh, the big uhshift for me was actually um
taking on uh writing moreprofessionally.
And that was a big shift uhbecause everything starts from
the screenplay.
Uh, if you don't have a strongscript, uh you're not gonna make
a good movie.
That's just impossible.
Um and uh at that point, uh Iwould say now I'm within the
(10:21):
film industry, you know, nolonger considering walking away,
uh just kind of persevering andlearning more and more.
And of course, you know, the bigpart when it comes to the
business side of the business,uh film business, uh the big uh
shift was uh when I came acrossuh from the heart and enrolled
in the intentional filmmakingclass and learned all about the
(10:43):
actual behind the scenes, youknow, the uh funding in the
films and so on and so forth.
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
Well, how nice to hear.
That was a great having you inthe class.
We really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, I've developed uhthree major projects uh with
your assistants, uh Carol andalso Tom's.
So I'm really grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
I think the bum next door is still my favorite.
I hope you continue.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Yes, I am actually developing it right now into a
series, uh, per your suggestion,uh, because right now the money
is in uh uh television, or as Icall it, uh serialized uh
storytelling.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
Exactly.
That's where it is.
Well, let's start for theaudience with what does a
producer actually do?
All right, let's fill me in onthat.
How do you define the role of anindependent producer and what
are the producers' mostimportant responsibilities?
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
I always see a producer as someone who just
does whatever needs to be doneto move the project forward to
completion.
Um, and again, depending on uhuh on the level of production,
right, it can be very different.
Uh, you know, as we mentioned,um, on a no-budget, uh
(12:03):
low-budget productions producercan do pretty much everything,
undertake all of the elements ona larger productions.
Uh, people who uh either work ina studio or maybe have a
developed uh solid relationshipswith investors, uh they have
money and they can hire uhprofessionals for different uh
(12:23):
jobs and positions on a project.
Um so that's a major difference.
But uh, regardless, I think uhthe size of the production, one
thing that producer must do isto make um project um valuable,
uh, because um the presentationunfortunately is everything.
(12:45):
Um a lot of filmmakers thinkit's the script that's the most
important aspect.
And I just said that yes, uh, tomake a good movie, you have to
have a solid script.
However, to get the funding, youhave to have a proper
presentation.
Um, and I call it packaging,packaging uh your project, uh,
(13:05):
which you know contains multipledifferent elements.
Um and uh the first element is apitch deck, it's a visual uh uh
representation of your project,and that's uh something that
either investors or producers,or maybe you building your team,
attaching talent.
That's the first element thateveryone is gonna see.
(13:28):
Uh so it's the most essentialpart, it's not a lookbook.
A lot of filmmakers uh mix thosetwo elements up.
Uh, I always consider a peachdeck kind of a built-in lookbook
because the design of the PeachDeck has to reflect the feel and
the style of your film.
Um, and then of course, youknow, additionally, you have to
(13:51):
have a budget, and uh it has tobe uh a real budget, uh as close
as possible to a productionbudget.
And to achieve that, uh, youhave to do a proper schedule
first, and in order to do aproper schedule, you have to do
a script breakdown prior tothat.
So that's like a step-by-stepprocess.
(14:13):
Uh script breakdown, schedule,then budget.
And of course, uh, anotheressential element is the uh um
business plan.
The budget is gonna be part ofthe business plan, and um that
is something that uh you have tobe ready to demonstrate to your
potential investors when theyask for it.
(14:35):
So it's essential not to mix uhlike any kind of a financial
information in your pitch tech,uh, because that's actually
against um uh securitycommission rules, uh, but make
sure to have that information inyour business plan.
Um and uh there is a lot moreinvolved in the whole process.
Uh, I highly recommend um Ibelieve last month, right, we
(14:58):
did um a session for learnproducing class, where I went in
more detail on each specific umaspect as well as I demonstrated
examples uh and also provided uhvery useful uh template.
Uh so I highly recommend um forlisteners, you know, especially
if you're starting out, uh, tocheck out uh learn producing um
(15:21):
uh class number 80, I believe.
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
Yes.
Right.
And you uh we really love I loveuh producing those classes,
Irina, because the the way outfor or into this industry for a
filmmaker who has a great scriptor a great idea is to learn how
(15:45):
to produce it so they can get itdeveloped to the point they can
bring on and pay for a producer.
unknown (15:53):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
That's uh absolutely.
And it's very unfortunate thatuh most producers also probably
not going to be interested in aproject unless it's packaged
already.
Uh, because it is kind ofexpectation of the producer to
do that, but the way thesituation in the industry right
now, you have to become your ownproducer to achieve that step,
(16:15):
basically.
And then once that step isachieved, it should be easier to
attract uh a producer maybe withmore experience who now can
potentially maybe bring somemoney on board.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
Exactly.
Well, let's talk about thedifference between the producer
and the director, becauseproducers are responsible for
the logistics, uh, and directorslead the creativity.
So many independent filmmakersare both directors and
producers.
Uh what is the differencebetween thinking like a director
(16:52):
and thinking like a producer?
And how can filmmakers balancetheir creative vision with the
practical needs of theproduction?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Uh yes, I can speak from my my experience, uh,
because it's always beenchallenging for me to do both,
even though I've always beendoing both.
And uh because I think mymindset uh is a producer first
and director second.
Um I always feel when I'm on aset I neglect my actors, for
(17:25):
example, uh, because my focus isso much just making sure that
all the elements fall intoplace, everything runs smoothly.
Uh so I always feel like I'm notuh giving enough time to my uh
talent.
Uh so that's my challenge for aslong as I remember.
And I'm looking forward to a daywhen I can completely let go of
(17:49):
the producing, at least when I'min a set, not during the
development, not during uhpre-production, but uh when I'm
physically uh you know filming,it would be a gift, you know, to
have a uh a producer who cantake over during that stage of
the production.
Yes.
And uh for me just to focus onthe creative aspects uh because
(18:11):
it's so important.
Uh but from my experience as aproducer working with other uh
directors and being on otherpeople's sets in generally, uh,
I think the biggest challengewhen there is a clash, you know,
and uh uh kind of a struggle andpull right between the producer
(18:32):
and the director, because theproducer is always concerned
about the money, and thedirector is always focused on uh
how to achieve uh you know thecreative vision.
And I think it's always helpful.
That's where I always believethat filmmakers should
understand about producing asmuch as possible, as well as
(18:53):
just generally what's going onin a set, right?
What are the different uhpositions, jobs in a set, you
know, what your crew people areresponsible for?
The better you understand allthose different elements when
the time comes and it willalways happen.
Uh no set is 100% smooth.
You know, there are alwayschallenges, unexpected changes
(19:14):
that you have to adapt.
But the better you understandwhat the process is, instead of
like headbutting each other,yes, you know, you can actually
uh listen to each other and workit out because uh creating a
conflict never helps theproduction, it actually wastes
time, right?
Uh it affects uh energy on theset, which is essential.
(19:36):
You know, we are a team, we haveto work together.
So it's uh essential uh tounderstand that sometimes, yes,
maybe you had a plan for I don'tknow, this beautiful uh sunset
shot, and you lost timebasically, right?
It's no longer available.
See if there is a potentially,you know, maybe switching things
around and film something else,and then maybe uh substitute uh
(20:01):
you know the sunrise for sunsetand and get that golden hour
shot uh in the morning instead,you know, just be open and
flexible instead of just gettingupset and just kind of uh
sulking and like, oh, we missedthe opportunity, right?
Um also important to listen toyour crew.
Often I hear uh on the new andexperienced uh sets, uh people
(20:23):
ignore sound person.
Uh it generally just kind ofignore the sound altogether, and
uh the sound person might say,okay, there's a like plane flew
by, and I understand now withthe new technologies it's a lot
easier to clean up sound in thepost-production.
But the mentality that I kind ofI've been trained with, and uh
(20:46):
highly recommend to kind of uhuse that mentality is that don't
rely on post-production to fixthings, do everything as much as
possible properly duringproduction.
It's like we fix it in a post, alot of times that's how films
never get completed because theyfall apart on that final stage.
(21:06):
Um, so yeah, listen to yourcrew.
You know, if crew says there isa problem, normally uh
professionals will not botheryou unless there is a reason to
bring attention to something.
Um, and uh yes, you know,flexibility, you know, your
artistic vision is important,but unfortunately, I have to say
it's more important to finish amovie on time because the way
(21:30):
the industry is right now, youknow, unless you're funding it
yourself, that's different,right?
But if you are dealing with theinvestors and money and you
don't finish the movie on time,it will be very hard for you to
make the next movie.
That's the reality of it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
Yes, that's right.
But you know, what I notice isthat the problems between the
producer and the director oftenhappen over money, because the
producer's job is to create andstay within the budget.
The director's is to give thefilm the most visuals and the
(22:07):
biggest display of energy andresources as possible.
So those two things, and theydon't care if they stay in
budget or not, because theydidn't have to raise the money
normally.
Uh, they're there for the art.
And that's why producers have arough time and are uh really
considered the tightwatch of theindustry, because they're
(22:30):
holding the purse strings,right?
SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
Yes, and I think usually uh why such conflicts uh
occur is again, uh the directorlacks producing experience and
uh understanding of the wholeprocess, and the producer lacks
the creative experience, becauseit's also helpful if your
producer is also a creativeperson, creative producer, not
(22:55):
just a banker, not just um amanager, right?
Who's there uh running the setand people to the ground?
That's also another way to doit.
Um, because people are exhaustedas is.
Usually, when you're on a set,you know, there is like barely.
Sleep, you know, after the firstweek, you know, that's when
emotions flare up.
(23:17):
And usually after a second week,if that's how you run the set
and you run people into theground, people actually start
getting sick, physically sick,and they start disappearing.
You know, that's unfortunately avery common thing that happens,
uh, and not just with theindependent world, but also big
productions.
The difference is with the bigproductions, um, they run a
(23:37):
little bit more by the book, um,money involved, right?
And uh, you know, people kind ofuh more used to those
conditions.
And also, obviously, they havevery easily they can replace
you, right?
If you get sick, they justreplace someone else in the
small productions.
Sometimes that's not the case.
You know, if you lose someone,uh it's very hard to find a
(23:59):
replacement uh for that personright away.
So that's where I think uh forproducers, it's also important
to be a creative producer, alsounderstand you know, what's the
process of creating a screenplayinvolved?
Because a lot of you know,producers they just purchase a
screenplay, right?
They just produce it.
Um, they don't create it, theydon't write it.
Um, so there is no emotionalconnection to the process.
(24:23):
Um, if you are awriter-director, you are heavily
emotionally um you know attachedto your work, and that's why you
know that vision in your headthat's been brewing there for
years, and now you're finally ona set, you want to make sure
that it's close as possible tothat vision.
Um, so yes, once again, I thinkit's just overall helpful, you
(24:44):
know, to understand the entireprocess of the process of the
production.
Uh so this way when you're on aset, uh it goes as smoothly as
possible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:55):
Exactly.
Uh this is so important.
All right, well, let's startwith the different here where
someone begins to to produce afilm, let's say an independent
uh filmmaker brings you ascreenplay or a documentary
concept.
What's the first question youask?
(25:15):
And how do you determine whetherthe project is ready to move
into development?
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
I mean, my background mostly with
narratives and educational canbe kind of a considered
documentary, but documentariesare very different in the way
they're planned because there isno real screenplay and there is
an outline, and the screenplayis created uh actually during
the post-production uh process.
Uh with the narratives, it's alittle bit more straightforward.
(25:43):
Uh, yes, uh, when uh I consulton the screenplays, uh the first
question is it the first draft?
Uh, because a lot of new writersfor them just completing the
screenplay is such an incredibleachievement, and and that they
just think that they're done,basically, that this is it.
Um, I call it the mi draft, andI recommend actually not to show
(26:07):
anyone mi draft.
The first draft is just for yourown eyes, and then it's a good
idea to have a little bit oftime and not to look at the
script, kind of a separateyourself, and then do um several
rewrites.
And again, I learned that fromfantastic uh teacher Jacob
(26:28):
Kruger.
Highly recommend uh his freesessions on Thursdays, um,
writeyour screenplay.com, that'shis website.
And um the way uh he changed myperspective is like you have to
put your yourself in the shoesof your characters.
So he recommends uh to domultiple rewrites from the
(26:50):
perspective of each character,basically.
So you have to be patient, norush, and do that work.
Um, and then you know, I wouldask, okay, if it's not the first
draft, um, you know, have youdone coverage?
You know, have you hired uhprofessionals uh who read your
script and give you notes?
Uh that's a coverage.
(27:10):
Uh, I personally don't do that.
I do more of a consultation.
Uh I go through the script and Imake notes on um uh structure
and uh maybe characterdevelopment and uh formatting,
which is also essential ifyou're gonna be presenting your
screenplay um uh for someoneelse to produce.
If you're basically making afilm on your own, um usually uh
(27:35):
I don't focus on the formattingas much because it's for your
own eyes.
I give you the suggestions andit's up to filmmaker to take
those suggestions or not.
However, if you are planning toshop around, right, if you're
planning to actually maybe sellthe screenplay, uh, because some
people are just writers, right?
Some people they're not lookingto direct and produce, uh, then
(27:57):
uh formatting is absolutelyessential, especially now
because we're using tools forlike script breakdown,
scheduling, budgeting, and nowthere is a lot of AI uh assists
uh are involved.
And if your script is notproperly uh formatted, uh it's
gonna be dismissed.
Um, it's just literally on thepage one, a lot of times you can
(28:18):
see uh like is it somebody whoum done the work or is somebody
new just starting out and stillneeds more education and uh and
such?
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Well, with all the programs like Largo, where they
read your script and give youfeedback, um, and since you work
with that, then you would knowuh immediately when they does
Largo spit it back out and sayyou have to add uh direction or
anything?
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Uh yes, yes.
Uh Largo I is a fantastic toolalso for business plan
development.
Yes.
Um, but uh screenplay analysis,uh, like I know first time I saw
the report, I was surprisedbecause you don't expect it, but
all it does is it analyzes umyou know your wording, right?
(29:11):
Your sentences, and um uh givesyou just a breakdown and also
visual representation of yourscreenplay, which is very
helpful.
So you can actually see if thereis a maybe emotional deep uh in
the middle of the film.
Usually it's act two.
Uh I've seen it quite often.
So that always like uh helps youto focus on certain parts of the
(29:33):
script uh that you need torewrite.
Uh, because as a writer, you getclose to your own material and
it is difficult to separateyourself.
Uh so yes, Largo AI isdefinitely a fantastic tool.
Uh pretty much for the cost ofone coverage, uh, you get so
much more because uh it alsoincludes uh financial
(29:53):
projections, uh, which is um youknow it's possible to find box
office on your own online, butyou cannot find projections uh
for streamers, and Largo AI uhincludes that in the report.
So definitely highly recommenduh yeah, if you're working on
packaging, uh look into that,explore it.
And uh by the way, if you godirectly to Larga AI, um it's
(30:16):
not for independent filmmakers.
They charge what like$10,000 ayear uh in membership just to be
able to access the system.
So the fact that from the heartmade it available to independent
filmmakers and affordable, it'suh incredible uh value.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
Oh thank you.
I think it is, I think it'sbrilliant.
And they keep in uh expandingits capabilities, they're
they're really putting more andmore money back into developing
that program, which isappreciated.
Okay, so now we're at building aprofessional film package.
Before filming has approacheddonors, investors, uh even cast
(30:55):
members, uh what material shouldbe included in a strong film
package?
Go over the elements with us,please.
Start with the pitch deck then.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Uh yes, uh, I briefly went over that uh
earlier.
Um and again, for more details,uh it's best uh to go and watch
the learn producing class uhsession.
Uh, but once again, I can goover the elements, uh the pitch
deck, which contains um your uhstatement, why you're doing the
(31:27):
project, right?
Because you are connecting on anemotional level with whoever
reading your project.
Uh, then of course, log line, uhsynopsis.
Um, you want to definitely talkabout your characters.
So you want to give a characterdescription.
If you already maybe cast uhsome actors in those roles,
(31:47):
absolutely included, especiallyif somebody who's you know,
maybe not a list star, but havea uh solid uh film career,
right?
A lot of projects under thebelt.
Um, so this way when potentialinvestors can Google them and
see them on IMDb, uh, they cansee that it's a solid uh actor
(32:10):
uh for the role.
And um, of course, you know, ifyou already have a team, make
sure to include uh your team onthe Peach Deck.
Um, and also it's okay to docomparables.
So maybe like four projects youcan mention uh that are similar
to yours in the genre and alsobudgetary uh level.
(32:33):
Uh, that's also important.
Uh, and of course, make surethere is uh contact information
so people know how to find you.
Um, and then of course, youknow, I we talked, I talked
about budget, schedule, and umuh script uh breakdown.
Uh so that's very important uhfor a proper budget, and you're
gonna take the budget uh tapsheet and include not the entire
(32:55):
budget, just the top sheet, andyou're gonna include it on your
business plan as well as uhlarger AI uh financial
projections.
Um, you know, I personally usinguh Tom Malloy's business plan,
uh it's the easiest tounderstand, it's
straightforward, it's visuallysimple but uh you know
impressive.
(33:16):
And uh the only thing I did, Iadded uh more detailed uh
waterfall to his plan because hehas like a brief one.
Uh and I use actual uhprojections from larger AI.
So it's not just like randomnumbers, just to give an example
to your investor.
It's actually you have a systemthat analyzes your screenplay
and gives potential how muchmoney actually your movie can
(33:40):
make, uh, which is essential,especially right now with the
way industry is.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
Exactly.
What's the return on investment?
Well, let's talk about thebudget and the schedule, because
underestimating time that ittakes to film a scene is really
hurting your production.
You say Hollywood shows threeminutes and three pages a day on
average.
(34:06):
So on my most efficient day, 32pages were filmed in one 10-hour
day with a four-person crew.
Wow.
So how did the budget andproduction schedule influence
one another's and what mistakesdo inexperienced filmmakers
commonly make when estimatinghow much money and time their
(34:27):
film will require?
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yes, uh it all depends uh like also who your
crew is, right?
If you work with people likethat example that I have given,
uh when we filmed uh 32 pages inone uh short day, 10-hour day is
a short day for filmmaking.
Uh we worked together onmultiple productions prior to
that.
Uh yes, you know, we haddifferent PAs, but the core
(34:54):
crew, you know, the camera,sound, um, lights, right?
The core crew, uh, we reallyworked well together and we knew
each other, and that was thereason uh why we were able to
move so smoothly.
Also, all of the actors were uhprofessional, it was filmed in
New York, so you have a lot ofwonderful uh actors there.
(35:15):
And um, and also the uh writer,director, producer in this case,
you know, she was very flexible.
You know, she allowed for uhsome freedom of movement, you
know, some improv.
So if let's say uh a line wasn'texactly as it was written, uh,
but it worked, she would befine, you know, and that's where
I was talking about flexibility,right?
(35:37):
And that creative vision.
You know, we are collaborators,so it's important to be open to
that.
Of course, you know, there arefilmmakers like you know, Woody
Allen who does like 100 takes,right?
But you, you know, he hasresources to do that.
Um if you're starting out, uh, Ihighly recommend not to do that.
Focus, you know, do somerehearsing ahead of time, but
(35:57):
once you roll the camera, uh, doat least minimum three takes,
you know.
That's important because youalso want to make sure if
there's a technical issue, youdo have uh another take to back
you up.
Uh, but that's the bigdifference, you know, it would
affect on your uh schedule andthe budget.
Because if you have a bigproduction, right, you have a
(36:18):
big crew, uh, it even if they'reprofessional crew, it just
automatically uh takes more timeto set up, right?
Uh between uh every time youmove and you have to break down
the set and you know set it upagain, it takes time.
Uh even on a like smallexperienced shoots, I would say
(36:39):
you have to give at least anhour.
Um uh for the setting up, atleast two, I would say, and to
break down usually an hour.
If the crew is reallyexperienced, and again it's a
small crew, maybe you can Googlefaster than that, but normally
you have to consider that.
And um of course, you know,number of locations, right?
(37:00):
It's important also to consider.
You know, if you do a singlelocation shoot, obviously you
can do it a lot tighter andfaster, versus uh a production
where you have like maybe uh 10locations, right?
Something like that.
Also number of characters, youknow.
If you have uh um maybe twoleads and two supporting roles,
(37:21):
it's a single location shoot.
Uh, obviously, you can do itmuch faster.
You can do more than three pagesper day.
Um, of course, you know, youneed to consider maybe some
scenes are very emotionalscenes.
So when you go through yourscript breakdown and you create
a schedule, you have to considerthat.
Maybe there will be a little bitmore time required, you know, to
rehearse a little bit more, torun through the scene, maybe to
(37:43):
do a few more takes, etc., etc.
If there are action sequences,you know, that's definitely
going to take more time to setup and film.
Uh, so all of those elements areimportant uh to uh consider in
the scheduling uh phase, andthey will affect your budget.
And again, just having thenumber of people on your crew
and cast will affect your budgetbig time because that's the
(38:06):
number one rule of anyproduction, even no budget
productions, you have to feedyour crew.
Like never ever, you know, don'tfeed your crew.
And when I say feed your crew,pizza might do it for a day.
No, you have to feed uh a goodquality food so that the energy
is up, so there is no energydips, and that alone will uh
(38:30):
your budget will be affectedgreatly just by the number of
people working on yourproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
Uh you know, right.
Okay, well, because we'retalking about being your own
producer, um some people say toyou should learn the entire
filmmaking process, like get onthe set as a PA and work as many
different departments aspossible on an indie film uh to
(38:56):
get ready to multitask.
So when you say that filmmakersneed to become their own
producers, what do you mean inpractical terms?
What would you recommend?
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Well, I mean, generally, again, to understand
the process, I think the easiestway to understand the process,
um, you know, and it doesn'tmatter, you know, I'm not saying
that you have to be a young kid,you know, who just graduated um
in the film school.
Uh, it applies to anyone.
Maybe some people have beendreaming uh being on a set their
whole life and they finallyretired and then they have time
(39:31):
to focus on what they reallyshould want to do.
First step is just volunteer,you know, just help other
independent filmmakers and startwith the short films because
it's easier, right?
Um, maybe something that takesmaybe like three days to film,
or maybe over a weekend.
It's very, very common forfilmmakers to do that and just
observe.
And that's as a PA youropportunity to do pretty much
(39:53):
anything on a set and uh tounderstand, you know, again,
what the process is, um, andthen see where it leads you.
Uh, a lot of times people trydifferent things and they
realize, okay, I'm a writer, butI really like set design as
well.
And they might end up going intothat direction, maybe.
Um, or some people realize umreally want to make money, you
(40:16):
know, like, but as a writer,it's really, really challenging,
and they end up in a set andthey see that one person that's
always needed is a good soundperson, and you might end up and
you might end up uh investing alittle bit of money in a boom
mic and uh you know mixerrecorder, and end up uh and you
know, also it's a great workout.
You're definitely gonna build uhyour upper body strength.
(40:39):
Um, so you never know.
Uh, but uh that's essential, youknow.
Again, the more you understandwho you know does what, um, also
you will see you know how longit takes to set up the lights,
right?
So that's where you're gonnarealize how much more involved
in the process, and there areother people involved in the
(41:00):
process, it's not just about youas an artist, you know, that's
also very important.
Um, you know, uh, we artisticpeople, we have a tendency to be
very focused just on what we do,and it's essential to realize
that the success of the filmdepends on your team, and uh
that's how you find your team,that's how you build your team
(41:21):
by physically getting out ofthere, uh out of you know, in
the world and being part of theproductions.
That's how you might end up umyou know finding uh your actors,
working on someone else's set,uh, connecting with another
producer, uh, and so forth.
SPEAKER_02 (41:39):
Yes, you've got to jump in to play the game.
You do.
You need to be on that set.
Well, let's talk about financingand fundraising responsibilities
because usually investors don'twant to be the first money in,
and it's expected to have afully packaged project within
20% of the money or with maybe10 to 20 percent of the money
(42:02):
already raised.
So what role should the producerplay in financing and
fundraising?
And is it reasonable for afilmmaker to expect a producer
to arrive with all the money?
Or should the filmmaker alsoparticipate in finding donors,
investors, grants, etc.?
SPEAKER_00 (42:26):
Well, in the beginning, uh you really kind of
have to do as much as possibleon your own.
Uh and absolutely, like thegrants, it's free money, it's
out there.
Uh, all independent filmmakersshould take advantage of that.
Um, you know, the grant advanceuh system that From the Heart
has access to is absolutely anamazing resource.
(42:48):
Um, crowdfunding, again, freemoney, money that you do not
have to return.
So learn as much as possibleabout crowdfunding uh because
it's also a team effort.
Uh don't try to do it on yourown.
Um, I mean, I literally starteda film funding group with that
idea to help filmmakers becausewe see every time somebody does
(43:11):
it on their own, usually theydon't reach the desirable goal.
Um, so team building is kind ofa like at the base uh of
everything.
Uh because for attaching uhexperience again producers and
investors, unfortunately, theywill see how far you got on your
own.
Um if you haven't done the work,um there are so many filmmakers
(43:37):
that did do the work, right?
They walked the walk.
So, of course, you know, moreexperienced producers,
production houses, andinvestors, those are the people
that they're gonna be drawn to,right?
Uh so it's just natural, umthat's how things are,
unfortunately.
But what I've seen, and one ofthe filmmakers I'm currently uh
(43:58):
working with, um what happenedto him, you know, he did the
work, he filmed the uh proof ofconcept, and it was a plan to do
a feature.
But because he's such a preciseartist and also you know has a
such a great uh business mind,he attracted the right people,
and now there are multiple uhproducers and film fans, and
(44:20):
they actually asked him tocreate a series out of it so to
make it bigger, and and nowthere is a lot going on behind
the scenes, and it's reallyfascinating to watch that
process because that's obviouslynot television or streaming,
it's on the next level.
So something that started as anindependent, uh small
(44:41):
independent uh film, a genrefilm, now is becoming this
potentially uh a series, and butagain, if he hasn't done that
work first, right?
If he hasn't done the uhpackaging, uh uh you know,
filming and completing proof ofconcept, that wouldn't happen.
And actually, he also got veryclose uh getting that initial uh
(45:04):
10% uh by using tax insensitivein his state and um uh selling
it to the bank, which is Uh, oneof the ways you know we
filmmakers can get that initial10 to 20 percent.
So he got very close.
He actually had a bank that wasinterested, and that's what
happened.
When producers saw that, they'relike, Okay, he's the real deal.
(45:26):
Uh, we can actually work withhim, he listens.
Uh, he also did do uh rewrites,obviously, you know, when it
went into the series instead ofthe feature film, and that's
also important, you know.
Like if somebody tells you,okay, now you're working on this
level, you know, you might beworking with the big actors, now
you have to listen to thefeedback from them, and you have
to be okay to integrate thefeedback.
(45:48):
But again, you don't have tosacrifice your vision, but you
have to be okay to make thoseadjustments and changes um to
your script.
SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
Flexibility is key.
You're right.
Yes.
But let me ask you to go backand tell us about your film
group.
When does it meet?
How do you join?
Everything.
Tell us.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
Uh yes, uh, film funding group.
Uh, we are uh on Facebook, andin fact, we have a really
important event uh literallytomorrow.
Um uh and uh it's gonna be withone of our uh potential investor
groups.
Uh currently uh um there is uhtwo uh uh financial groups that
we are connected with.
(46:29):
Uh, one is a matching fund andthe other one is a uh finishing
fund.
And uh this particularpresentation is gonna be done by
the uh matching fund.
And um uh the subject matter isgonna be Hollywood 3.0.
Uh and discussion is gonna bewhat studios and big producers
(46:50):
are looking for, you know, howthey actually choose the
projects that they're gonna makehappen.
Um, yes, so it's gonna takeplace uh tomorrow, uh 4 p.m.
uh pacific, uh 6 uh p.m.
Central, 7 p.m.
uh eastern time.
Um, and uh you can find all theinformation in a group in the
(47:13):
featured section.
Uh highly recommend uh to checkit out.
And we're also recording oursessions, so that recording will
be available on uh our page aswell afterwards in case if you
do miss uh that session.
SPEAKER_02 (47:28):
And what do you see address on Facebook?
SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
Oh, just uh look for the film funding group.
Um, and uh when you see uh likea behind-the-scenes uh image of
the camera uh with the light, uhthat's uh that's the group.
That's my group.
SPEAKER_02 (47:45):
Okay, good, great.
All right, well, now let's getinto post-production, the
ultimate indie producer'snightmare, because usually
there's so much more money thatthey have to spend than they had
intended.
Uh so a producer's work does notend when principal photography
(48:06):
is completed.
So take us through theresponsibilities during editing,
sound, music, etc., becausethat's where it really all comes
together, is in post.
And what does a producer do?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
I mean, again, it differs, right, with the small
productions versus uh biggerproductions.
And the bigger productions, youjust simply hire the best person
for the job.
It's uh, you know, you have themoney, uh, so you hire your
editor, your uh sound mixing,your color correction, uh, you
know, etc.
etc.
Um, as an indie producer, yes,if you not run out of the money
(48:48):
during production, you're doingsomething wrong.
Usually um uh money runs out uhin the production stage, and
then filmmakers do anotherfundraiser to raise money for
post-production.
But what I see, uh, if you aretechnical and uh you're curious,
uh, I highly recommend to learnthe post-production process.
(49:09):
Uh, you can do it nowadays uhcompletely for free.
You know, with the uh DaVinci,they have a free version of
professional editing software.
Uh, there is uh plenty, probablythousands of educational uh free
videos on YouTube you can find.
And uh so at least youunderstand again what the
(49:31):
process is involved.
Um, a lot of times peopleunderestimate how much time it
takes to do post-production, sowhich also affects your budget
and also expectations whenyou're working with the editor.
I see it all the time.
That um uh a lot of uh creativepeople they just think it's like
magically gonna come together.
(49:52):
But in reality, on the featurefilm, uh it's recommended to
dedicate uh three months forpost-production.
And when I say three months,that's just editing alone, uh
not including uh colorcorrection, uh sound work, and
so forth.
I've seen people do it uh in amonth, but usually those are the
super efficient uh filmmakerswho do it all, and that's what I
(50:15):
used to do.
Now I'm primarily focused on uhuh producing, but that's what I
used to do, you know, write,direct, produce, and then edit
myself.
Um, yes, because if youexperience all-in-one
specialist, a filmmaker, youknow exactly how to film
something efficiently, so you'renot wasting takes.
(50:36):
So you in the post-production,then you don't have to go
through a hundred takes, right?
You have a lot less footage toreview, uh, and all of that uh
affects uh the timing, you know,how long it's gonna take you to
uh complete the film.
Uh so yes, uh, people who areamazing talents uh who also do
their own color correction,special effects.
I mean, I I mean I've never donethat.
(50:58):
Uh I purely editing is my thing.
I may do some simple uh soundcleanup, but I'm not a sound
mixer.
Uh but people who do it all, Iactually have seen uh filmmakers
uh like finish production, let'ssay in 10 days, and then
literally like a month later,they have a finished cut, and
then they obviously still doadditional cleanup and such.
(51:21):
So it is possible.
It is possible to develop thoseskills to learn the you know the
craft or multiple crafts, Iguess.
Um, but again, if it's notsomething that's plausible, then
the best thing is to focus on uhgetting the money, right?
It's either one way or theother, you know, either you
figure out how to do it all onyour own, or get really well,
(51:45):
you know, like versed in umdeveloping relationships and
getting the money.
So I would say those are likethe two ways potentially to get
through the whole process and umyou know finishing the uh
post-production.
Post-production is such a bigchallenge for filmmakers that
again, one of the funds uh rightnow that we have a connection
(52:08):
with specifically finishingfunds, because that's usually
what things get stuck.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Exactly.
Finishing funds is whateverneeds.
Well, here I just want you totake a minute and tell us what
your services are.
What do you do for filmmakers?
SPEAKER_00 (52:27):
Uh primarily uh uh consulting uh services.
I consult on uh screenplay andthen uh do packaging, um, assist
you know with the uh the uhpeach tech.
I'm not a designer myself, but Ihave a wonderful uh designer
that I'm working with.
Uh, but I guide you through uhthe process of what goes into
(52:49):
the pitch tech, which is alsovery important.
Yes.
Um, and then of course, uh uhscript breakdown, uh scheduling,
budgeting.
So this way the budget that youhave is as close as possible to
the production budget.
Um, I don't do a hundred milliondollar productions.
Uh I feel comfortable, I wouldsay three million and under,
(53:10):
especially I love the sweetspot, a million and under,
because right now it's sochallenging to recoup the money.
I highly recommend if there is away to do a film under a
million, do it.
It will be just less stress onyou as well, because you have to
pay that money back, right?
It's not uh a gift, unless, ofcourse, you know you crowdfund
really well and you can raise uhthe money as well.
(53:31):
Uh or using fiscal sponsorship,uh, that's another way to get uh
free money because your uhsupporters just get uh tax
deductions in return.
Uh so if you can do that andraise a million that way, uh
fantastic.
But in the majority of cases,you involved with investors when
(53:51):
you're at that level or higher.
Um so, yes, that's uh kind of myuh comfort zone.
And uh, of course, you know,after the budget is uh
completed, I prepare the uhbusiness plan.
I do incorporate a larger AI uhreport um in my packaging
services, and um that'sbasically it.
(54:15):
And um, I have to say, you know,if filmmakers are listening and
uh they really proactive, theytake action, um I'm known, you
know, to speak up and connectpeople to other people, but uh
I'm definitely not doing thisautomatically and for everyone,
(54:37):
but people who work hard, likethat filmmaker I mentioned.
Um you know, he connected uh tothe producer and now all this
potential investors uh throughparticipating in my uh your
production team initiative.
Uh so his project got elevatedjust by you know working
together basically.
SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Okay, thank you very much.
Now let's uh uh talk about howfilmmakers and what can they do
today to move a project forward.
Um because if they're stillwaiting for someone else to move
it forward, that's a very uhthat's a bad way to live because
(55:19):
you really need to move yourfilm forward, take
responsibility.
So tell us what, give us threeactions that filmmakers can do.
SPEAKER_00 (55:31):
I mean, to summarize uh in a short way, I would say
uh learn the craft, do thecraft, and then do it again.
Um, again and again and again.
Uh, the more uh you actually doit, uh the better and more
comfortable you will be in yourown skin.
And at some point, then you willbe comfortable uh you know
(55:52):
pitching, approaching people uhwith money, uh, because again,
uh most investors are not filmpeople, they don't know anything
about film.
There are in other uhindustries, there are successful
business people.
Um so then, and of course, youknow, you're gonna make better
movies, right?
Start with the short films,obviously, you know, highly
(56:13):
don't recommend uh jumping intofeature right away, unless again
you have the money of your own.
Maybe you know your family iswealthy, and um you can hire the
right people for the job.
Uh, of course, then there isnothing wrong to do a feature
right away, and some people havedone so successfully, but for
majority of uh independentfilmmakers, um uh that's
(56:37):
essential.
Again, learn, do, and do itagain.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
Thank you, Irina.
Thank you for joining us on theart of film funding and for
giving our listeners such anhonest and practical
understanding of what anindependent producer really
does.
So I especially appreciate yourmessage that filmmakers cannot
spend their lives waiting for amagical producer to discover
(57:02):
them and make everything happen.
They must learn the business oftheir films.
That's what people miss.
It is the business of film.
So, to our listeners, rememberthat becoming the producer of
your film does not mean that youmust do everything alone.
It means that you become theleader of your project, you
(57:23):
understand what your film needs,you find the right people to
help you and continue movingforward one achievable step at a
time.
So, Irina, we really thank youvery much for sharing all this
knowledge.
And to everyone listening, Iwant to remind you about the new
audiobook, You are the magic.
(57:44):
It was created to help yourecognize your own creative
powers, connect with yourvision, and understand that the
future for your film begins withwhat you believe is possible.
So, in closing, the messagetoday is you do not have to wait
for someone else to give youpermission to tell your story.
(58:04):
You are the magic.
Your story matters, andHollywood needs you.
So thank you for joining us onthe Art of Film Funding.
And thank you, Irena, and thankyou, Claire, for the information
today.
SPEAKER_00 (58:19):
Uh thank you for the uh opportunity, uh Caroline.
SPEAKER_02 (58:23):
Great.
If you're waiting for a magical producer to
discover your film and makeeverything happen, well today's
conversation may completelychange how you approach your
filmmaking career.
SPEAKER_01 (01:30):
So glad you could join us here on the Art of Film
Funding podcast.
I'm your co-host, Claire Papan,along with writer and producer
Carol Dean, author of thebest-selling book, The Art of
Film Funding, and president ofFrom the Heart Productions.
For more than 30 years, From theHeart Productions has supported
(01:52):
independent filmmakers throughthe Roy W.
Dean grant, fiscal sponsorship,educational programs,
consultations, and resourcesdesigned to help filmmakers fund
and complete their projects.
Today we're talking about one ofthe most important and often
(02:14):
misunderstood roles inindependent filmmaking, the
producer.
What does an independentproducer actually do?
How does a producer guide a filmfrom its earliest development
through production andpost-production?
We'll also discuss a commonmisconception about filmmakers:
(02:37):
the belief that a magicalproducer will suddenly discover
their project, raise all themoney, assemble the perfect
team, and make everythinghappen.
The reality is that today'sindependent filmmakers often
need to become producers oftheir own work.
(02:57):
Learning to produce meansunderstanding how to build your
project, create a strategy,assemble the right
collaborators, and maintaincontrol over your film.
Our guest is consulting producerIrina Chinekina, an experienced
(03:19):
filmmaker who's worked inproducing, directing, writing,
and editing for more than twodecades.
Irina specializes in helpingindependent filmmakers
understand the practical processof moving a project from
development throughpost-production.
(03:39):
She brings first-hand knowledgeof how low and micro-budget
filmmaking, project packaging,budgeting, scheduling,
fundraising, preparation, andbuilding the materials a film
needs to attract supporters andmove forward.
Today, Irina will share her ownjourney to becoming a producer,
(04:04):
explain what the producer's jobreally entails, and offer
practical guidance forfilmmakers who are ready to stop
waiting to be discovered andbegin taking responsibility for
bringing their stories to thescreen.
Carol, I am really excited aboutthis conversation.
(04:25):
Please introduce Irina and takeit away on today's interview.
SPEAKER_02 (04:30):
Thank you, Claire.
Yeah, Irina, welcome to the Artof Film Funding.
I'm delighted to have you withus.
This is a really importantsubject because many filmmakers
have a great idea, meaningfulstory, even a completed
screenplay, but they do notfully understand what to do
next.
So today we're taking ourlisteners through the
(04:52):
independent producer's journey,from the first idea to the
developer process throughfinancing production, post, and
completion.
So let's start with your journeyto producing, because I know as
a producer, director, writer,and editor that you've been in
(05:12):
the business for over 20 years.
So how did you enter the filmindustry and what led you to
become an independent producer?
SPEAKER_00 (05:23):
Thank you so much, uh, Caroline, for having me.
It's wonderful to be back.
Um yes, it's kind of uhunbelievable, it's been so long.
And um being an independentfilmmaker in particular, um,
pretty much staying away fromthe uh industry uh as a whole,
uh, my perspective might be alittle bit different, and
(05:43):
experience might be a little bitdifferent.
Um I started uh with um you knowfilm school.
So I did uh get my BM, uh BA inum uh film studies.
I went to Hunter College, whichis a fantastic uh film school uh
in New York City.
But unlike um, let's say maybeNYU or Columbia, we did not have
(06:07):
a mentorship program there.
So once we learned all about uhthe art of filmmaking and the
technical aspects, uh we werebasically on our own.
Nobody taught us the businessside of the business, uh film
business.
And we were trying to figure outhow to make films on our own.
Um, so myself and my classmates,uh, we teamed up, we were making
(06:32):
short films, and somehow fromthe very beginning, I just
naturally fell into producing.
Uh, there was never even aquestion that you can just
simply entrust uh that processin someone else's hands.
Of course, you know, producingon that level is very different
from producing on a largerproduction, right?
(06:53):
Because uh you're dealing withno budget, uh, whatever
resources uh the school providesyou, and you have to figure it
out, you have to make it happen.
Um and um um at that point, theproducing involves even things
like uh finding locations,right?
You don't have a locationscouter for you, you have to do
(07:16):
it yourself.
Uh during the shoot, you uh haveto make sure that everyone is
well fed.
So you even do things like that.
You know, you might end upcooking things, buying things,
right?
Everything is on your shoulders.
Uh, and of course, at the sametime, most likely, you're also a
director of the project becauseit's your creative uh vision,
(07:36):
and it's very challenging in uhbalancing the two.
Uh so from the very beginning, Ithink it's essential to build
your team, to have that support,uh, but also be realistic that
uh people that you're workingwith also lack experience, and
we kind of are all together inthis boat uh figuring things
(07:56):
out.
SPEAKER_02 (07:57):
Um that's so true.
Yes, well said.
I I have to laugh because yes,everybody gets together and
figures it out, and because itis such a coordinated
collaborative process, right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:14):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Um, and um I guess the nextstep, you know, once uh you uh
graduate right now you own yourown.
And um uh from that point on Iguess you know it was a balance
(08:36):
because you have your owncreative projects, but also you
need to make money, right?
Uh so for money, I fell intomore corporate uh work, uh doing
corporate videos, educational,you know, done a lot of
educational videos and such.
And then uh the creativeprojects, uh mostly narrative
projects, um, were kind of aalmost like a side hassle that
(08:58):
you do on a time when uh thetime is available.
Um, so it's unfortunate, butthat happens a lot, uh, that the
actual uh filmmaking is treatedalmost like a hobby, right?
Because we're all artists and weneed to survive.
SPEAKER_02 (09:13):
Right.
Right.
So was there a particularproject or a turning point when
you realized that you could notsimply wait for someone else to
make things happen when and youneeded to learn how to produce
on your own?
SPEAKER_00 (09:31):
I mean, even though, yes, I've been producing from
the beginning, uh, but there wasa point uh where I kind of tried
to walk away from film.
And uh those couple of yearswere absolutely miserable.
And uh when I made the decisionto come back and now focus um
specifically on narratives anduh now more focus of feature
(09:54):
uh-length films, uh, the big uhshift for me was actually um
taking on uh writing moreprofessionally.
And that was a big shift uhbecause everything starts from
the screenplay.
Uh, if you don't have a strongscript, uh you're not gonna make
a good movie.
That's just impossible.
Um and uh at that point, uh Iwould say now I'm within the
(10:21):
film industry, you know, nolonger considering walking away,
uh just kind of persevering andlearning more and more.
And of course, you know, the bigpart when it comes to the
business side of the business,uh film business, uh the big uh
shift was uh when I came acrossuh from the heart and enrolled
in the intentional filmmakingclass and learned all about the
(10:43):
actual behind the scenes, youknow, the uh funding in the
films and so on and so forth.
SPEAKER_02 (10:49):
Well, how nice to hear.
That was a great having you inthe class.
We really enjoyed it.
SPEAKER_00 (10:56):
Absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, I've developed uhthree major projects uh with
your assistants, uh Carol andalso Tom's.
So I'm really grateful for that.
SPEAKER_02 (11:05):
I think the bum next door is still my favorite.
I hope you continue.
SPEAKER_00 (11:10):
Yes, I am actually developing it right now into a
series, uh, per your suggestion,uh, because right now the money
is in uh uh television, or as Icall it, uh serialized uh
storytelling.
SPEAKER_02 (11:22):
Exactly.
That's where it is.
Well, let's start for theaudience with what does a
producer actually do?
All right, let's fill me in onthat.
How do you define the role of anindependent producer and what
are the producers' mostimportant responsibilities?
SPEAKER_00 (11:43):
I always see a producer as someone who just
does whatever needs to be doneto move the project forward to
completion.
Um, and again, depending on uhuh on the level of production,
right, it can be very different.
Uh, you know, as we mentioned,um, on a no-budget, uh
(12:03):
low-budget productions producercan do pretty much everything,
undertake all of the elements ona larger productions.
Uh, people who uh either work ina studio or maybe have a
developed uh solid relationshipswith investors, uh they have
money and they can hire uhprofessionals for different uh
(12:23):
jobs and positions on a project.
Um so that's a major difference.
But uh, regardless, I think uhthe size of the production, one
thing that producer must do isto make um project um valuable,
uh, because um the presentationunfortunately is everything.
(12:45):
Um a lot of filmmakers thinkit's the script that's the most
important aspect.
And I just said that yes, uh, tomake a good movie, you have to
have a solid script.
However, to get the funding, youhave to have a proper
presentation.
Um, and I call it packaging,packaging uh your project, uh,
(13:05):
which you know contains multipledifferent elements.
Um and uh the first element is apitch deck, it's a visual uh uh
representation of your project,and that's uh something that
either investors or producers,or maybe you building your team,
attaching talent.
That's the first element thateveryone is gonna see.
(13:28):
Uh so it's the most essentialpart, it's not a lookbook.
A lot of filmmakers uh mix thosetwo elements up.
Uh, I always consider a peachdeck kind of a built-in lookbook
because the design of the PeachDeck has to reflect the feel and
the style of your film.
Um, and then of course, youknow, additionally, you have to
(13:51):
have a budget, and uh it has tobe uh a real budget, uh as close
as possible to a productionbudget.
And to achieve that, uh, youhave to do a proper schedule
first, and in order to do aproper schedule, you have to do
a script breakdown prior tothat.
So that's like a step-by-stepprocess.
(14:13):
Uh script breakdown, schedule,then budget.
And of course, uh, anotheressential element is the uh um
business plan.
The budget is gonna be part ofthe business plan, and um that
is something that uh you have tobe ready to demonstrate to your
potential investors when theyask for it.
(14:35):
So it's essential not to mix uhlike any kind of a financial
information in your pitch tech,uh, because that's actually
against um uh securitycommission rules, uh, but make
sure to have that information inyour business plan.
Um and uh there is a lot moreinvolved in the whole process.
Uh, I highly recommend um Ibelieve last month, right, we
(14:58):
did um a session for learnproducing class, where I went in
more detail on each specific umaspect as well as I demonstrated
examples uh and also provided uhvery useful uh template.
Uh so I highly recommend um forlisteners, you know, especially
if you're starting out, uh, tocheck out uh learn producing um
(15:21):
uh class number 80, I believe.
SPEAKER_02 (15:25):
Yes.
Right.
And you uh we really love I loveuh producing those classes,
Irina, because the the way outfor or into this industry for a
filmmaker who has a great scriptor a great idea is to learn how
(15:45):
to produce it so they can get itdeveloped to the point they can
bring on and pay for a producer.
unknown (15:53):
Right?
SPEAKER_00 (15:53):
That's uh absolutely.
And it's very unfortunate thatuh most producers also probably
not going to be interested in aproject unless it's packaged
already.
Uh, because it is kind ofexpectation of the producer to
do that, but the way thesituation in the industry right
now, you have to become your ownproducer to achieve that step,
(16:15):
basically.
And then once that step isachieved, it should be easier to
attract uh a producer maybe withmore experience who now can
potentially maybe bring somemoney on board.
SPEAKER_02 (16:28):
Exactly.
Well, let's talk about thedifference between the producer
and the director, becauseproducers are responsible for
the logistics, uh, and directorslead the creativity.
So many independent filmmakersare both directors and
producers.
Uh what is the differencebetween thinking like a director
(16:52):
and thinking like a producer?
And how can filmmakers balancetheir creative vision with the
practical needs of theproduction?
SPEAKER_00 (17:03):
Uh yes, I can speak from my my experience, uh,
because it's always beenchallenging for me to do both,
even though I've always beendoing both.
And uh because I think mymindset uh is a producer first
and director second.
Um I always feel when I'm on aset I neglect my actors, for
(17:25):
example, uh, because my focus isso much just making sure that
all the elements fall intoplace, everything runs smoothly.
Uh so I always feel like I'm notuh giving enough time to my uh
talent.
Uh so that's my challenge for aslong as I remember.
And I'm looking forward to a daywhen I can completely let go of
(17:49):
the producing, at least when I'min a set, not during the
development, not during uhpre-production, but uh when I'm
physically uh you know filming,it would be a gift, you know, to
have a uh a producer who cantake over during that stage of
the production.
Yes.
And uh for me just to focus onthe creative aspects uh because
(18:11):
it's so important.
Uh but from my experience as aproducer working with other uh
directors and being on otherpeople's sets in generally, uh,
I think the biggest challengewhen there is a clash, you know,
and uh uh kind of a struggle andpull right between the producer
(18:32):
and the director, because theproducer is always concerned
about the money, and thedirector is always focused on uh
how to achieve uh you know thecreative vision.
And I think it's always helpful.
That's where I always believethat filmmakers should
understand about producing asmuch as possible, as well as
(18:53):
just generally what's going onin a set, right?
What are the different uhpositions, jobs in a set, you
know, what your crew people areresponsible for?
The better you understand allthose different elements when
the time comes and it willalways happen.
Uh no set is 100% smooth.
You know, there are alwayschallenges, unexpected changes
(19:14):
that you have to adapt.
But the better you understandwhat the process is, instead of
like headbutting each other,yes, you know, you can actually
uh listen to each other and workit out because uh creating a
conflict never helps theproduction, it actually wastes
time, right?
Uh it affects uh energy on theset, which is essential.
(19:36):
You know, we are a team, we haveto work together.
So it's uh essential uh tounderstand that sometimes, yes,
maybe you had a plan for I don'tknow, this beautiful uh sunset
shot, and you lost timebasically, right?
It's no longer available.
See if there is a potentially,you know, maybe switching things
around and film something else,and then maybe uh substitute uh
(20:01):
you know the sunrise for sunsetand and get that golden hour
shot uh in the morning instead,you know, just be open and
flexible instead of just gettingupset and just kind of uh
sulking and like, oh, we missedthe opportunity, right?
Um also important to listen toyour crew.
Often I hear uh on the new andexperienced uh sets, uh people
(20:23):
ignore sound person.
Uh it generally just kind ofignore the sound altogether, and
uh the sound person might say,okay, there's a like plane flew
by, and I understand now withthe new technologies it's a lot
easier to clean up sound in thepost-production.
But the mentality that I kind ofI've been trained with, and uh
(20:46):
highly recommend to kind of uhuse that mentality is that don't
rely on post-production to fixthings, do everything as much as
possible properly duringproduction.
It's like we fix it in a post, alot of times that's how films
never get completed because theyfall apart on that final stage.
(21:06):
Um, so yeah, listen to yourcrew.
You know, if crew says there isa problem, normally uh
professionals will not botheryou unless there is a reason to
bring attention to something.
Um, and uh yes, you know,flexibility, you know, your
artistic vision is important,but unfortunately, I have to say
it's more important to finish amovie on time because the way
(21:30):
the industry is right now, youknow, unless you're funding it
yourself, that's different,right?
But if you are dealing with theinvestors and money and you
don't finish the movie on time,it will be very hard for you to
make the next movie.
That's the reality of it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:44):
Yes, that's right.
But you know, what I notice isthat the problems between the
producer and the director oftenhappen over money, because the
producer's job is to create andstay within the budget.
The director's is to give thefilm the most visuals and the
(22:07):
biggest display of energy andresources as possible.
So those two things, and theydon't care if they stay in
budget or not, because theydidn't have to raise the money
normally.
Uh, they're there for the art.
And that's why producers have arough time and are uh really
considered the tightwatch of theindustry, because they're
(22:30):
holding the purse strings,right?
SPEAKER_00 (22:33):
Yes, and I think usually uh why such conflicts uh
occur is again, uh the directorlacks producing experience and
uh understanding of the wholeprocess, and the producer lacks
the creative experience, becauseit's also helpful if your
producer is also a creativeperson, creative producer, not
(22:55):
just a banker, not just um amanager, right?
Who's there uh running the setand people to the ground?
That's also another way to doit.
Um, because people are exhaustedas is.
Usually, when you're on a set,you know, there is like barely.
Sleep, you know, after the firstweek, you know, that's when
emotions flare up.
(23:17):
And usually after a second week,if that's how you run the set
and you run people into theground, people actually start
getting sick, physically sick,and they start disappearing.
You know, that's unfortunately avery common thing that happens,
uh, and not just with theindependent world, but also big
productions.
The difference is with the bigproductions, um, they run a
(23:37):
little bit more by the book, um,money involved, right?
And uh, you know, people kind ofuh more used to those
conditions.
And also, obviously, they havevery easily they can replace
you, right?
If you get sick, they justreplace someone else in the
small productions.
Sometimes that's not the case.
You know, if you lose someone,uh it's very hard to find a
(23:59):
replacement uh for that personright away.
So that's where I think uh forproducers, it's also important
to be a creative producer, alsounderstand you know, what's the
process of creating a screenplayinvolved?
Because a lot of you know,producers they just purchase a
screenplay, right?
They just produce it.
Um, they don't create it, theydon't write it.
Um, so there is no emotionalconnection to the process.
(24:23):
Um, if you are awriter-director, you are heavily
emotionally um you know attachedto your work, and that's why you
know that vision in your headthat's been brewing there for
years, and now you're finally ona set, you want to make sure
that it's close as possible tothat vision.
Um, so yes, once again, I thinkit's just overall helpful, you
(24:44):
know, to understand the entireprocess of the process of the
production.
Uh so this way when you're on aset, uh it goes as smoothly as
possible.
SPEAKER_02 (24:55):
Exactly.
Uh this is so important.
All right, well, let's startwith the different here where
someone begins to to produce afilm, let's say an independent
uh filmmaker brings you ascreenplay or a documentary
concept.
What's the first question youask?
(25:15):
And how do you determine whetherthe project is ready to move
into development?
SPEAKER_00 (25:22):
I mean, my background mostly with
narratives and educational canbe kind of a considered
documentary, but documentariesare very different in the way
they're planned because there isno real screenplay and there is
an outline, and the screenplayis created uh actually during
the post-production uh process.
Uh with the narratives, it's alittle bit more straightforward.
(25:43):
Uh, yes, uh, when uh I consulton the screenplays, uh the first
question is it the first draft?
Uh, because a lot of new writersfor them just completing the
screenplay is such an incredibleachievement, and and that they
just think that they're done,basically, that this is it.
Um, I call it the mi draft, andI recommend actually not to show
(26:07):
anyone mi draft.
The first draft is just for yourown eyes, and then it's a good
idea to have a little bit oftime and not to look at the
script, kind of a separateyourself, and then do um several
rewrites.
And again, I learned that fromfantastic uh teacher Jacob
(26:28):
Kruger.
Highly recommend uh his freesessions on Thursdays, um,
writeyour screenplay.com, that'shis website.
And um the way uh he changed myperspective is like you have to
put your yourself in the shoesof your characters.
So he recommends uh to domultiple rewrites from the
(26:50):
perspective of each character,basically.
So you have to be patient, norush, and do that work.
Um, and then you know, I wouldask, okay, if it's not the first
draft, um, you know, have youdone coverage?
You know, have you hired uhprofessionals uh who read your
script and give you notes?
Uh that's a coverage.
(27:10):
Uh, I personally don't do that.
I do more of a consultation.
Uh I go through the script and Imake notes on um uh structure
and uh maybe characterdevelopment and uh formatting,
which is also essential ifyou're gonna be presenting your
screenplay um uh for someoneelse to produce.
If you're basically making afilm on your own, um usually uh
(27:35):
I don't focus on the formattingas much because it's for your
own eyes.
I give you the suggestions andit's up to filmmaker to take
those suggestions or not.
However, if you are planning toshop around, right, if you're
planning to actually maybe sellthe screenplay, uh, because some
people are just writers, right?
Some people they're not lookingto direct and produce, uh, then
(27:57):
uh formatting is absolutelyessential, especially now
because we're using tools forlike script breakdown,
scheduling, budgeting, and nowthere is a lot of AI uh assists
uh are involved.
And if your script is notproperly uh formatted, uh it's
gonna be dismissed.
Um, it's just literally on thepage one, a lot of times you can
(28:18):
see uh like is it somebody whoum done the work or is somebody
new just starting out and stillneeds more education and uh and
such?
SPEAKER_02 (28:31):
Well, with all the programs like Largo, where they
read your script and give youfeedback, um, and since you work
with that, then you would knowuh immediately when they does
Largo spit it back out and sayyou have to add uh direction or
anything?
SPEAKER_00 (28:51):
Uh yes, yes.
Uh Largo I is a fantastic toolalso for business plan
development.
Yes.
Um, but uh screenplay analysis,uh, like I know first time I saw
the report, I was surprisedbecause you don't expect it, but
all it does is it analyzes umyou know your wording, right?
(29:11):
Your sentences, and um uh givesyou just a breakdown and also
visual representation of yourscreenplay, which is very
helpful.
So you can actually see if thereis a maybe emotional deep uh in
the middle of the film.
Usually it's act two.
Uh I've seen it quite often.
So that always like uh helps youto focus on certain parts of the
(29:33):
script uh that you need torewrite.
Uh, because as a writer, you getclose to your own material and
it is difficult to separateyourself.
Uh so yes, Largo AI isdefinitely a fantastic tool.
Uh pretty much for the cost ofone coverage, uh, you get so
much more because uh it alsoincludes uh financial
(29:53):
projections, uh, which is um youknow it's possible to find box
office on your own online, butyou cannot find projections uh
for streamers, and Largo AI uhincludes that in the report.
So definitely highly recommenduh yeah, if you're working on
packaging, uh look into that,explore it.
And uh by the way, if you godirectly to Larga AI, um it's
(30:16):
not for independent filmmakers.
They charge what like$10,000 ayear uh in membership just to be
able to access the system.
So the fact that from the heartmade it available to independent
filmmakers and affordable, it'suh incredible uh value.
SPEAKER_02 (30:32):
Oh thank you.
I think it is, I think it'sbrilliant.
And they keep in uh expandingits capabilities, they're
they're really putting more andmore money back into developing
that program, which isappreciated.
Okay, so now we're at building aprofessional film package.
Before filming has approacheddonors, investors, uh even cast
(30:55):
members, uh what material shouldbe included in a strong film
package?
Go over the elements with us,please.
Start with the pitch deck then.
SPEAKER_00 (31:07):
Uh yes, uh, I briefly went over that uh
earlier.
Um and again, for more details,uh it's best uh to go and watch
the learn producing class uhsession.
Uh, but once again, I can goover the elements, uh the pitch
deck, which contains um your uhstatement, why you're doing the
(31:27):
project, right?
Because you are connecting on anemotional level with whoever
reading your project.
Uh, then of course, log line, uhsynopsis.
Um, you want to definitely talkabout your characters.
So you want to give a characterdescription.
If you already maybe cast uhsome actors in those roles,
(31:47):
absolutely included, especiallyif somebody who's you know,
maybe not a list star, but havea uh solid uh film career,
right?
A lot of projects under thebelt.
Um, so this way when potentialinvestors can Google them and
see them on IMDb, uh, they cansee that it's a solid uh actor
(32:10):
uh for the role.
And um, of course, you know, ifyou already have a team, make
sure to include uh your team onthe Peach Deck.
Um, and also it's okay to docomparables.
So maybe like four projects youcan mention uh that are similar
to yours in the genre and alsobudgetary uh level.
(32:33):
Uh, that's also important.
Uh, and of course, make surethere is uh contact information
so people know how to find you.
Um, and then of course, youknow, I we talked, I talked
about budget, schedule, and umuh script uh breakdown.
Uh so that's very important uhfor a proper budget, and you're
gonna take the budget uh tapsheet and include not the entire
(32:55):
budget, just the top sheet, andyou're gonna include it on your
business plan as well as uhlarger AI uh financial
projections.
Um, you know, I personally usinguh Tom Malloy's business plan,
uh it's the easiest tounderstand, it's
straightforward, it's visuallysimple but uh you know
impressive.
(33:16):
And uh the only thing I did, Iadded uh more detailed uh
waterfall to his plan because hehas like a brief one.
Uh and I use actual uhprojections from larger AI.
So it's not just like randomnumbers, just to give an example
to your investor.
It's actually you have a systemthat analyzes your screenplay
and gives potential how muchmoney actually your movie can
(33:40):
make, uh, which is essential,especially right now with the
way industry is.
SPEAKER_02 (33:45):
Exactly.
What's the return on investment?
Well, let's talk about thebudget and the schedule, because
underestimating time that ittakes to film a scene is really
hurting your production.
You say Hollywood shows threeminutes and three pages a day on
average.
(34:06):
So on my most efficient day, 32pages were filmed in one 10-hour
day with a four-person crew.
Wow.
So how did the budget andproduction schedule influence
one another's and what mistakesdo inexperienced filmmakers
commonly make when estimatinghow much money and time their
(34:27):
film will require?
SPEAKER_00 (34:32):
Yes, uh it all depends uh like also who your
crew is, right?
If you work with people likethat example that I have given,
uh when we filmed uh 32 pages inone uh short day, 10-hour day is
a short day for filmmaking.
Uh we worked together onmultiple productions prior to
that.
Uh yes, you know, we haddifferent PAs, but the core
(34:54):
crew, you know, the camera,sound, um, lights, right?
The core crew, uh, we reallyworked well together and we knew
each other, and that was thereason uh why we were able to
move so smoothly.
Also, all of the actors were uhprofessional, it was filmed in
New York, so you have a lot ofwonderful uh actors there.
(35:15):
And um, and also the uh writer,director, producer in this case,
you know, she was very flexible.
You know, she allowed for uhsome freedom of movement, you
know, some improv.
So if let's say uh a line wasn'texactly as it was written, uh,
but it worked, she would befine, you know, and that's where
I was talking about flexibility,right?
(35:37):
And that creative vision.
You know, we are collaborators,so it's important to be open to
that.
Of course, you know, there arefilmmakers like you know, Woody
Allen who does like 100 takes,right?
But you, you know, he hasresources to do that.
Um if you're starting out, uh, Ihighly recommend not to do that.
Focus, you know, do somerehearsing ahead of time, but
(35:57):
once you roll the camera, uh, doat least minimum three takes,
you know.
That's important because youalso want to make sure if
there's a technical issue, youdo have uh another take to back
you up.
Uh, but that's the bigdifference, you know, it would
affect on your uh schedule andthe budget.
Because if you have a bigproduction, right, you have a
(36:18):
big crew, uh, it even if they'reprofessional crew, it just
automatically uh takes more timeto set up, right?
Uh between uh every time youmove and you have to break down
the set and you know set it upagain, it takes time.
Uh even on a like smallexperienced shoots, I would say
(36:39):
you have to give at least anhour.
Um uh for the setting up, atleast two, I would say, and to
break down usually an hour.
If the crew is reallyexperienced, and again it's a
small crew, maybe you can Googlefaster than that, but normally
you have to consider that.
And um of course, you know,number of locations, right?
(37:00):
It's important also to consider.
You know, if you do a singlelocation shoot, obviously you
can do it a lot tighter andfaster, versus uh a production
where you have like maybe uh 10locations, right?
Something like that.
Also number of characters, youknow.
If you have uh um maybe twoleads and two supporting roles,
(37:21):
it's a single location shoot.
Uh, obviously, you can do itmuch faster.
You can do more than three pagesper day.
Um, of course, you know, youneed to consider maybe some
scenes are very emotionalscenes.
So when you go through yourscript breakdown and you create
a schedule, you have to considerthat.
Maybe there will be a little bitmore time required, you know, to
rehearse a little bit more, torun through the scene, maybe to
(37:43):
do a few more takes, etc., etc.
If there are action sequences,you know, that's definitely
going to take more time to setup and film.
Uh, so all of those elements areimportant uh to uh consider in
the scheduling uh phase, andthey will affect your budget.
And again, just having thenumber of people on your crew
and cast will affect your budgetbig time because that's the
(38:06):
number one rule of anyproduction, even no budget
productions, you have to feedyour crew.
Like never ever, you know, don'tfeed your crew.
And when I say feed your crew,pizza might do it for a day.
No, you have to feed uh a goodquality food so that the energy
is up, so there is no energydips, and that alone will uh
(38:30):
your budget will be affectedgreatly just by the number of
people working on yourproduction.
SPEAKER_02 (38:35):
Uh you know, right.
Okay, well, because we'retalking about being your own
producer, um some people say toyou should learn the entire
filmmaking process, like get onthe set as a PA and work as many
different departments aspossible on an indie film uh to
(38:56):
get ready to multitask.
So when you say that filmmakersneed to become their own
producers, what do you mean inpractical terms?
What would you recommend?
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Well, I mean, generally, again, to understand
the process, I think the easiestway to understand the process,
um, you know, and it doesn'tmatter, you know, I'm not saying
that you have to be a young kid,you know, who just graduated um
in the film school.
Uh, it applies to anyone.
Maybe some people have beendreaming uh being on a set their
whole life and they finallyretired and then they have time
(39:31):
to focus on what they reallyshould want to do.
First step is just volunteer,you know, just help other
independent filmmakers and startwith the short films because
it's easier, right?
Um, maybe something that takesmaybe like three days to film,
or maybe over a weekend.
It's very, very common forfilmmakers to do that and just
observe.
And that's as a PA youropportunity to do pretty much
(39:53):
anything on a set and uh tounderstand, you know, again,
what the process is, um, andthen see where it leads you.
Uh, a lot of times people trydifferent things and they
realize, okay, I'm a writer, butI really like set design as
well.
And they might end up going intothat direction, maybe.
Um, or some people realize umreally want to make money, you
(40:16):
know, like, but as a writer,it's really, really challenging,
and they end up in a set andthey see that one person that's
always needed is a good soundperson, and you might end up and
you might end up uh investing alittle bit of money in a boom
mic and uh you know mixerrecorder, and end up uh and you
know, also it's a great workout.
You're definitely gonna build uhyour upper body strength.
(40:39):
Um, so you never know.
Uh, but uh that's essential, youknow.
Again, the more you understandwho you know does what, um, also
you will see you know how longit takes to set up the lights,
right?
So that's where you're gonnarealize how much more involved
in the process, and there areother people involved in the
(41:00):
process, it's not just about youas an artist, you know, that's
also very important.
Um, you know, uh, we artisticpeople, we have a tendency to be
very focused just on what we do,and it's essential to realize
that the success of the filmdepends on your team, and uh
that's how you find your team,that's how you build your team
(41:21):
by physically getting out ofthere, uh out of you know, in
the world and being part of theproductions.
That's how you might end up umyou know finding uh your actors,
working on someone else's set,uh, connecting with another
producer, uh, and so forth.
SPEAKER_02 (41:39):
Yes, you've got to jump in to play the game.
You do.
You need to be on that set.
Well, let's talk about financingand fundraising responsibilities
because usually investors don'twant to be the first money in,
and it's expected to have afully packaged project within
20% of the money or with maybe10 to 20 percent of the money
(42:02):
already raised.
So what role should the producerplay in financing and
fundraising?
And is it reasonable for afilmmaker to expect a producer
to arrive with all the money?
Or should the filmmaker alsoparticipate in finding donors,
investors, grants, etc.?
SPEAKER_00 (42:26):
Well, in the beginning, uh you really kind of
have to do as much as possibleon your own.
Uh and absolutely, like thegrants, it's free money, it's
out there.
Uh, all independent filmmakersshould take advantage of that.
Um, you know, the grant advanceuh system that From the Heart
has access to is absolutely anamazing resource.
(42:48):
Um, crowdfunding, again, freemoney, money that you do not
have to return.
So learn as much as possibleabout crowdfunding uh because
it's also a team effort.
Uh don't try to do it on yourown.
Um, I mean, I literally starteda film funding group with that
idea to help filmmakers becausewe see every time somebody does
(43:11):
it on their own, usually theydon't reach the desirable goal.
Um, so team building is kind ofa like at the base uh of
everything.
Uh because for attaching uhexperience again producers and
investors, unfortunately, theywill see how far you got on your
own.
Um if you haven't done the work,um there are so many filmmakers
(43:37):
that did do the work, right?
They walked the walk.
So, of course, you know, moreexperienced producers,
production houses, andinvestors, those are the people
that they're gonna be drawn to,right?
Uh so it's just natural, umthat's how things are,
unfortunately.
But what I've seen, and one ofthe filmmakers I'm currently uh
(43:58):
working with, um what happenedto him, you know, he did the
work, he filmed the uh proof ofconcept, and it was a plan to do
a feature.
But because he's such a preciseartist and also you know has a
such a great uh business mind,he attracted the right people,
and now there are multiple uhproducers and film fans, and
(44:20):
they actually asked him tocreate a series out of it so to
make it bigger, and and nowthere is a lot going on behind
the scenes, and it's reallyfascinating to watch that
process because that's obviouslynot television or streaming,
it's on the next level.
So something that started as anindependent, uh small
(44:41):
independent uh film, a genrefilm, now is becoming this
potentially uh a series, and butagain, if he hasn't done that
work first, right?
If he hasn't done the uhpackaging, uh uh you know,
filming and completing proof ofconcept, that wouldn't happen.
And actually, he also got veryclose uh getting that initial uh
(45:04):
10% uh by using tax insensitivein his state and um uh selling
it to the bank, which is Uh, oneof the ways you know we
filmmakers can get that initial10 to 20 percent.
So he got very close.
He actually had a bank that wasinterested, and that's what
happened.
When producers saw that, they'relike, Okay, he's the real deal.
(45:26):
Uh, we can actually work withhim, he listens.
Uh, he also did do uh rewrites,obviously, you know, when it
went into the series instead ofthe feature film, and that's
also important, you know.
Like if somebody tells you,okay, now you're working on this
level, you know, you might beworking with the big actors, now
you have to listen to thefeedback from them, and you have
to be okay to integrate thefeedback.
(45:48):
But again, you don't have tosacrifice your vision, but you
have to be okay to make thoseadjustments and changes um to
your script.
SPEAKER_02 (45:56):
Flexibility is key.
You're right.
Yes.
But let me ask you to go backand tell us about your film
group.
When does it meet?
How do you join?
Everything.
Tell us.
SPEAKER_00 (46:08):
Uh yes, uh, film funding group.
Uh, we are uh on Facebook, andin fact, we have a really
important event uh literallytomorrow.
Um uh and uh it's gonna be withone of our uh potential investor
groups.
Uh currently uh um there is uhtwo uh uh financial groups that
we are connected with.
(46:29):
Uh, one is a matching fund andthe other one is a uh finishing
fund.
And uh this particularpresentation is gonna be done by
the uh matching fund.
And um uh the subject matter isgonna be Hollywood 3.0.
Uh and discussion is gonna bewhat studios and big producers
(46:50):
are looking for, you know, howthey actually choose the
projects that they're gonna makehappen.
Um, yes, so it's gonna takeplace uh tomorrow, uh 4 p.m.
uh pacific, uh 6 uh p.m.
Central, 7 p.m.
uh eastern time.
Um, and uh you can find all theinformation in a group in the
(47:13):
featured section.
Uh highly recommend uh to checkit out.
And we're also recording oursessions, so that recording will
be available on uh our page aswell afterwards in case if you
do miss uh that session.
SPEAKER_02 (47:28):
And what do you see address on Facebook?
SPEAKER_00 (47:31):
Oh, just uh look for the film funding group.
Um, and uh when you see uh likea behind-the-scenes uh image of
the camera uh with the light, uhthat's uh that's the group.
That's my group.
SPEAKER_02 (47:45):
Okay, good, great.
All right, well, now let's getinto post-production, the
ultimate indie producer'snightmare, because usually
there's so much more money thatthey have to spend than they had
intended.
Uh so a producer's work does notend when principal photography
(48:06):
is completed.
So take us through theresponsibilities during editing,
sound, music, etc., becausethat's where it really all comes
together, is in post.
And what does a producer do?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
I mean, again, it differs, right, with the small
productions versus uh biggerproductions.
And the bigger productions, youjust simply hire the best person
for the job.
It's uh, you know, you have themoney, uh, so you hire your
editor, your uh sound mixing,your color correction, uh, you
know, etc.
etc.
Um, as an indie producer, yes,if you not run out of the money
(48:48):
during production, you're doingsomething wrong.
Usually um uh money runs out uhin the production stage, and
then filmmakers do anotherfundraiser to raise money for
post-production.
But what I see, uh, if you aretechnical and uh you're curious,
uh, I highly recommend to learnthe post-production process.
(49:09):
Uh, you can do it nowadays uhcompletely for free.
You know, with the uh DaVinci,they have a free version of
professional editing software.
Uh, there is uh plenty, probablythousands of educational uh free
videos on YouTube you can find.
And uh so at least youunderstand again what the
(49:31):
process is involved.
Um, a lot of times peopleunderestimate how much time it
takes to do post-production, sowhich also affects your budget
and also expectations whenyou're working with the editor.
I see it all the time.
That um uh a lot of uh creativepeople they just think it's like
magically gonna come together.
(49:52):
But in reality, on the featurefilm, uh it's recommended to
dedicate uh three months forpost-production.
And when I say three months,that's just editing alone, uh
not including uh colorcorrection, uh sound work, and
so forth.
I've seen people do it uh in amonth, but usually those are the
super efficient uh filmmakerswho do it all, and that's what I
(50:15):
used to do.
Now I'm primarily focused on uhuh producing, but that's what I
used to do, you know, write,direct, produce, and then edit
myself.
Um, yes, because if youexperience all-in-one
specialist, a filmmaker, youknow exactly how to film
something efficiently, so you'renot wasting takes.
(50:36):
So you in the post-production,then you don't have to go
through a hundred takes, right?
You have a lot less footage toreview, uh, and all of that uh
affects uh the timing, you know,how long it's gonna take you to
uh complete the film.
Uh so yes, uh, people who areamazing talents uh who also do
their own color correction,special effects.
I mean, I I mean I've never donethat.
(50:58):
Uh I purely editing is my thing.
I may do some simple uh soundcleanup, but I'm not a sound
mixer.
Uh but people who do it all, Iactually have seen uh filmmakers
uh like finish production, let'ssay in 10 days, and then
literally like a month later,they have a finished cut, and
then they obviously still doadditional cleanup and such.
(51:21):
So it is possible.
It is possible to develop thoseskills to learn the you know the
craft or multiple crafts, Iguess.
Um, but again, if it's notsomething that's plausible, then
the best thing is to focus on uhgetting the money, right?
It's either one way or theother, you know, either you
figure out how to do it all onyour own, or get really well,
(51:45):
you know, like versed in umdeveloping relationships and
getting the money.
So I would say those are likethe two ways potentially to get
through the whole process and umyou know finishing the uh
post-production.
Post-production is such a bigchallenge for filmmakers that
again, one of the funds uh rightnow that we have a connection
(52:08):
with specifically finishingfunds, because that's usually
what things get stuck.
SPEAKER_02 (52:12):
Exactly.
Finishing funds is whateverneeds.
Well, here I just want you totake a minute and tell us what
your services are.
What do you do for filmmakers?
SPEAKER_00 (52:27):
Uh primarily uh uh consulting uh services.
I consult on uh screenplay andthen uh do packaging, um, assist
you know with the uh the uhpeach tech.
I'm not a designer myself, but Ihave a wonderful uh designer
that I'm working with.
Uh, but I guide you through uhthe process of what goes into
(52:49):
the pitch tech, which is alsovery important.
Yes.
Um, and then of course, uh uhscript breakdown, uh scheduling,
budgeting.
So this way the budget that youhave is as close as possible to
the production budget.
Um, I don't do a hundred milliondollar productions.
Uh I feel comfortable, I wouldsay three million and under,
(53:10):
especially I love the sweetspot, a million and under,
because right now it's sochallenging to recoup the money.
I highly recommend if there is away to do a film under a
million, do it.
It will be just less stress onyou as well, because you have to
pay that money back, right?
It's not uh a gift, unless, ofcourse, you know you crowdfund
really well and you can raise uhthe money as well.
(53:31):
Uh or using fiscal sponsorship,uh, that's another way to get uh
free money because your uhsupporters just get uh tax
deductions in return.
Uh so if you can do that andraise a million that way, uh
fantastic.
But in the majority of cases,you involved with investors when
(53:51):
you're at that level or higher.
Um so, yes, that's uh kind of myuh comfort zone.
And uh, of course, you know,after the budget is uh
completed, I prepare the uhbusiness plan.
I do incorporate a larger AI uhreport um in my packaging
services, and um that'sbasically it.
(54:15):
And um, I have to say, you know,if filmmakers are listening and
uh they really proactive, theytake action, um I'm known, you
know, to speak up and connectpeople to other people, but uh
I'm definitely not doing thisautomatically and for everyone,
(54:37):
but people who work hard, likethat filmmaker I mentioned.
Um you know, he connected uh tothe producer and now all this
potential investors uh throughparticipating in my uh your
production team initiative.
Uh so his project got elevatedjust by you know working
together basically.
SPEAKER_02 (54:57):
Okay, thank you very much.
Now let's uh uh talk about howfilmmakers and what can they do
today to move a project forward.
Um because if they're stillwaiting for someone else to move
it forward, that's a very uhthat's a bad way to live because
(55:19):
you really need to move yourfilm forward, take
responsibility.
So tell us what, give us threeactions that filmmakers can do.
SPEAKER_00 (55:31):
I mean, to summarize uh in a short way, I would say
uh learn the craft, do thecraft, and then do it again.
Um, again and again and again.
Uh, the more uh you actually doit, uh the better and more
comfortable you will be in yourown skin.
And at some point, then you willbe comfortable uh you know
(55:52):
pitching, approaching people uhwith money, uh, because again,
uh most investors are not filmpeople, they don't know anything
about film.
There are in other uhindustries, there are successful
business people.
Um so then, and of course, youknow, you're gonna make better
movies, right?
Start with the short films,obviously, you know, highly
(56:13):
don't recommend uh jumping intofeature right away, unless again
you have the money of your own.
Maybe you know your family iswealthy, and um you can hire the
right people for the job.
Uh, of course, then there isnothing wrong to do a feature
right away, and some people havedone so successfully, but for
majority of uh independentfilmmakers, um uh that's
(56:37):
essential.
Again, learn, do, and do itagain.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (56:42):
Thank you, Irina.
Thank you for joining us on theart of film funding and for
giving our listeners such anhonest and practical
understanding of what anindependent producer really
does.
So I especially appreciate yourmessage that filmmakers cannot
spend their lives waiting for amagical producer to discover
(57:02):
them and make everything happen.
They must learn the business oftheir films.
That's what people miss.
It is the business of film.
So, to our listeners, rememberthat becoming the producer of
your film does not mean that youmust do everything alone.
It means that you become theleader of your project, you
(57:23):
understand what your film needs,you find the right people to
help you and continue movingforward one achievable step at a
time.
So, Irina, we really thank youvery much for sharing all this
knowledge.
And to everyone listening, Iwant to remind you about the new
audiobook, You are the magic.
(57:44):
It was created to help yourecognize your own creative
powers, connect with yourvision, and understand that the
future for your film begins withwhat you believe is possible.
So, in closing, the messagetoday is you do not have to wait
for someone else to give youpermission to tell your story.
(58:04):
You are the magic.
Your story matters, andHollywood needs you.
So thank you for joining us onthe Art of Film Funding.
And thank you, Irena, and thankyou, Claire, for the information
today.
SPEAKER_00 (58:19):
Uh thank you for the uh opportunity, uh Caroline.
SPEAKER_02 (58:23):
Great.
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