Examining the Many Facets of The Evolving Vietnamese Narrative w/ Kenneth Nguyen

This week, I’m joined by my friend and fellow podcaster, Kenneth Nguyen, the host and creator of the acclaimed The Vietnamese Podcast. He was my guest host on my then-farewell episode in 2023 when I was sunsetting the podcast, and he’s back on my show, to remind me that he was right that I would come back to the podcasting sphere, and here I am now! With hundreds of episodes recorded, Kenneth has built a platform highlighting Vietnamese creatives, educators, historians, entrepreneurs, and many others across the global diaspora and homeland.

In this fun and insightful conversation, we dive into:

• The Current Podcasting Landscape: Our thoughts on the industry since I returned to podcasting, and what podcasting means now these days.

• Kenneth’s Journey into Podcasting: The story of how The Vietnamese Podcast began and the lessons he’s learned about the Vietnamese community both in the US and in Vietnam.

• Navigating Political Nuances: Discussing the delicate and complex political divisions within the community, and how both Vietnamese Americans and Vietnam view the history of the war fifty years later.

• Shaping Future Narratives: How we can actively work to influence and shape the evolving story of the Vietnamese American community moving forward.

Kenneth brings a wealth of experience from over two decades in the Vietnamese media space, including his work as a film producer and co-founder of EAST Films. His podcast aims to show the Vietnamese experience “from a transpacific lens, in all its facets and complexities.”

Bio:

Kenneth Nguyen is a Los Angeles-based podcaster and film producer with over two decades in the Vietnamese media space. Kenneth hosts and produces The Vietnamese podcast with over 400 episodes recorded. Kenneth is a founding partner at EAST Films with several film projects in development and production.

Check out The Vietnamese Podcast on Instagram: TheVietnamesePodcast

https://www.youtube.com/c/TheVietnamesewithKennethNguyen

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
A good friend of mine, podcasting colleague Kenneth
Wynn, host of the Vietnamese podcast of what Kenneth Wynn and
this podcast has featured a vaststories of Vietnamese people
from the diaspora and from Vietnam and from artists,
educators, entrepreneurs, actorsand film makers.
And I will say that I'm a huge fan of the show.

(00:22):
I, you know, me being a Vietnamese person of descent,
I've really appreciated hearing so many very different stories
from our communities, you know, whether it's in the US here or
across the globe or in the homeland of Vietnam.
And, you know, Kenneth is someone that I have an immense

(00:42):
respect for. I have been really honored to be
on his show. I know that we did a show
together with Tracy Nguyen from the Vietnamese Boat People
podcast. And then he actually happened to
be my guest host of my last showwhen I was sun studying the

(01:02):
podcast like 2 years ago. And at that time, I was very
pretty clear at that time that Ireally did not want to be, you
know, doing this. I'm like, I'm done.
I'm ready to move on, but now here I am two years later, I'm
bringing it back at different capacity.
So it feels right to have you onas a guest this time.
So thank you so much, Kenneth, for being on my show.

(01:24):
And first of all, how have you been doing this year with, you
know, 2025 almost concluding? Thank you so much for having me
on, first of all. And Randy, I want to, you know,
two years ago, even though we did the last one for you, I knew
you were going to come back because this is something that,

(01:45):
you know, people are giving you their, you know, the information
experience in their lives. How could you turn that down,
right? It's an addiction.
And I think, yeah, you might take a two year break.
But I in my heart of hearts, I knew that you would be back at
it. And I can't tell you how happy I
am that you are back because, you know, you brought up Tracy

(02:08):
and the Vietnamese. But people, I think she's
closing that out, right? I think she is, but I know
that's her. But her organization itself very
much is doing things. Yeah, yeah.
And I hope they bring the podcast back or another
iteration of it. You know, some different form
would be beautiful to to to see because, you know, I think when

(02:28):
you limit it to the Vietnamese boat people, it might be a
limited topic, you know, within,you know, 50 years or is is over
and we can keep talking about it.
But I think you know Tracy, and you have a plethora of things to
to talk about, You know, as the future of of the Vietnamese
continue to to prosper and blossom.

(02:49):
Yeah, You know what's kind of interesting?
When I left the podcast, I was going into sub stack.
I want to do more writing. I wanted to kind of like feature
more BIPOC folks. I wanted to tap into the tap
into like bipod reading BIPOC author authored books and I was
still bringing in the interview component to it, but it was a

(03:12):
very different format. Like I was doing more of AQ and
A. And I'll be honest with you,
that felt very unnatural to me because I realized how much of A
conversations I am. Like there are times when I felt
like I had to move on to the next question and like I wanted
to add more follow up after follow up and I was like, I
really couldn't do that. I felt restricting.

(03:34):
And I, and I think have they're having to deal with a lot of
things going on in my life for the past year and then and then
having to finally step away completely and try to live life.
I think that there's a sense of it like you have to like live
life and come back in a different capacity.

(03:55):
And I felt very reinvigorated. And I think that is something
that really sparked my motivation and my drive to come
back and have further discussions.
There's a lot of that has changed in the podcast game.
I know that you've been doing this podcast for several years,
and in those several years, and I've experienced this too, that

(04:19):
I have seen so many Asian podcasters, Vietnamese
podcasters have come in and comeout and to be honest with you,
coming back like now, I don't really know who's doing what, to
be honest with you. I feel like most of the people
that I knew from the podcasting world have since transformed or
left the platform altogether. I'm curious about for you, what

(04:43):
has that looked like for the past two years as a podcaster
and seeing how the podcasting landscape has changed both in
the Asian communities, but also across across all across all
demographics. You know, I, I share that
sentiment with you in the last two years, I think there's a lot

(05:04):
of people who dropped off there's, you know, and for, for
one reason or another, you know,there's, you know, more, there's
different paths that they can pursue, There's different
formats that they can pursue. That makes more sense.
And I think the statistic is like 9 episodes is sort of like

(05:25):
where people land and I, you know, but I believe in this.
I believe that a lot of people can step off like you and
they'll come back. That's fine too.
And I think that that's important because then we can
gain insight on what you did on your two years off, right?
We can see the growth of, of Randy Kim and we can experience

(05:46):
that together. So I'm here for it.
I'm here for all of it. You know, you want to drop off
for five years, come back. I think that you know, anybody
who's followed you can see five years or two years ago, you know
how you left off and now where you are with with your thinking.
I think it's all beautiful because at the end of the day,
it's just a conversation. We're just in conversation with

(06:07):
each other. And this happens to be my 6th
year now, like I just started my6th year and I don't I, I pace
myself by taking actually takinglong breaks.
You know, today I have five, yours is number 5.
Today I have five episodes, but then I won't podcast for like 3

(06:27):
months. You know, I'll do that.
So I have enough saved up so I don't get burned out.
And that's the way I kind of like roll through this is, is I
avoid burnout by by recording a lot in like a week or two and
then like letting, you know, just free falling for the next
three months. Wow, that's a very, that's a
very interesting approach because like I think coming back

(06:50):
for myself, I have been recording like since the last
two months I have been been recording quite a bit.
I haven't, I don't record like five times a day the way you
have been doing. Like that's a little too much
for my own social battery. But I used to do seasons, I used
to do curations of how I releasethem.

(07:12):
And now I'm more like, look, this is where you're going to
get. This is within my own mission,
my own theme, and it's hot off the process.
And when I need to step out, I'mgoing to step out.
And I think that's something that I'm learning to do as a
podcast. And I've been watching your work
the last two years, specificallysince I left.
And I have seen you evolve to not just interview, you know,

(07:35):
different prolific folks in the community, but you've also
decided to go further in terms of specific topics such as like
the Vietnam War and the implications and the politics
that we are afraid to talk aboutor that we don't have a lot of
knowledge, especially from the millennial Gen.

(08:00):
Z folks that are not aware of. Why does our South Vietnamese
folks feel this way in the US about current US politics in
Vietnam versus how Vietnamese folks feel about it from the
diaspora and from the homeland? And I felt like you were taking
on some very difficult topics. And I'm very curious about how

(08:24):
that got you to that place to start having these very layered
conversations with, you know, with, I can't remember his name,
but I know he's a historian and educator on this.
And yeah, what was that? What was that coming of age for
you to, you know, take on this part?

(08:44):
You know, that's a great question because he is actually
the person who kicked this all off.
His name is Kevin Pham, and he is a professor out of the
University of Amsterdam. And he focuses on Vietnamese
political theorists. And he wrote a book that talked
about six of these, like, central figures that talk about
political theory. Ho Chi Minh is one of them, Wing

(09:07):
Gang, Min A Funcho, Funchujo Fung Bo Ching and those
characters are sort of like the bedrock of the anti colonial,
sort of like rise up of Vietnam,of current day modern Vietnam.
So being children of the South, which is me and Kevin Pham, we
are direct descendants of the other side of the Vietnamese

(09:31):
current government. So as we started to like
explore, I started to explore more, more knowledge about Oh my
God, before the American war, the Vietnam War, there was this
whole colonial like Japan was like, you know, in the big and
France was in the mix and China was in the mix.
All these colonial powers were in the mix.

(09:52):
And when you look at it from that point of view, it's like a
more of a 30,000 foot view. You could see that the Vietnam
War with America was just kind of inevitable.
And from the point of going muchfurther back in history to
analyze the different things that happened up leading up to
the Vietnam War, it allowed me alot more neutrality.

(10:15):
And I think going into it with facts and neutrality, there's no
backlash. I mean, there's only backlash
when you sort of take a, you go heavy on one side and you defend
one side blindly. But I think Kevin and I are
really there to kind of open it up historically to all the

(10:35):
facts. And we talked about the bad
sides of both sides. We talked about the sides of
both sides. And I think we lacked that in
today's environment with the Trump administration.
You know, maybe, yeah, 99% of the stuff that he's doing is not
what we like. But, you know, hey, America
voted for him. And for better, for worse, we

(10:57):
got to live with this for the next, you know, 3 1/2 more years
or, or, or or so. And, and it's painful as hell.
But, you know, I think it's painful as hell for the South
Vietnamese people who landed in America.
But with all pain, it will pass.And what do we do in the moment

(11:17):
of pain? What do we do right now?
We organize, we strategize, we figure out what we need to do.
And I don't think that we need to be loud and, and, and fight
crazy we because I mean, it's not working.
I don't know. Yeah, I think that's to your
point, because when I came back to the podcast, one of the

(11:39):
things that I don't want to get involved in doing is rage
baiting. Like I want to provide content
that like, yes, I do have my ownviews that are very obvious in a
progressive lens. However, if I'm going to do it,
I do it from a place of community.
I do it from a place of protection of community.

(11:59):
Like let's how do we offer information to intercept bad
narratives? Because I think one thing that I
have noticed in the podcasting landscape is it has this mantle
spear. There's this, you know, like a
lot of the talking, the right wing fringe voices, the talking
heads that have really been infiltrating the podcast spaces.
And it sure played a role in theelection.

(12:21):
And I felt that it was very important for other voices,
especially marginalized voices, whether you're Asian, Black,
Latino, indigenous, LGBT, QIA, disabled, like it was very
important to also bring these voices into this platform.
And I felt like, like, how do weintercept harmful narratives and

(12:43):
also bring the narratives that actually show people they're
doing the work so people are notfalling into despair.
And I think that's something I think about very constantly.
So I think like, you know, when I hear your podcast, like, I
think it brought a lot of nuancethat I was like afraid to bring
up because yes, I do think wouldDanny in the Vietnam War, like I

(13:07):
want to both honor my family's suffering and their trauma from,
you know, the war and also the forced migration, the forced
exodus and, and our and our community members who have been
very traumatized and knowing that, you know, unfortunately,
our current political system knows how to really weaponize

(13:29):
their traumas. And I've seen this a lot, You
know what the Cuban community's and so forth.
But but I think to learn from other like, you know, the North
Vietnamese and other folks living in Vietnam now as as
technology has become more prevalent and more accessible, I

(13:50):
learned that the things that I learned that has a lot of new
ones, There's no binary to, you know, North Vietnamese bad,
South Vietnamese good people victims or vice versa, which,
you know, both of them, you know, were victims, you know,
colonization happened. You know, there's a whole like
touch of layer of of people thatwere in positions of power that,

(14:17):
you know, had different ideas and how they approached how what
they feel is right in their way.And, you know, unfortunately a
lot of people were displaced andkilled as a result.
So I don't think that there is an easy answer to it.
There never is, and I don't think there ever will be.

(14:39):
But I do think that what you bring is that let's let's unpack
this up here and then let's talkabout it from a more nuanced
perspective, especially as our parents are aging and now
passing away because we are the 50 year mark.
So this is a very critical time of being stewards of their

(15:00):
stories and and pretty much our stories right now.
And how do we focus on it, you know?
Somebody asked me last night at dinner and they asked me, what
do you mean you're a moderate? Does that mean that you're
Republican and Democrat and progressive and conservative?
I'm like, no, I thought about that a lot.
It wasn't last night. It was like a few nights ago.

(15:22):
I thought about that a lot. And I, you know, there's some
issues that I live in, in the right and then there's issues
that I live in the left. However, this is where I
consider myself a moderate is that I want to listen and I want
to consume what other people arethinking.
That doesn't mean that I'm goingto immediately broadcast my

(15:44):
thoughts and let you know what I'm thinking.
Nor am I in it for the fight, right?
Like I'm not in it to fight you.I'm still processing my
thoughts. I'm still wondering, hey, is
that right? Or is that right?
I, you know, is that on the left?
Is that progressive right? And I think my job, my my job in

(16:06):
the world is to really process this stuff and think about it.
And not really, I don't need to make commentary on it.
I just need to ask questions that may or may not reflect my
stance on certain things. But I tell you, I I do lean
heavily progressive. Now.
Liberal is built with its own context, right?

(16:28):
Like there are liberal people that believe what Israel is
doing in Gaza is OK, right? That's a liberal way of
thinking. And, and you could be liberal
and think that that's OK. But are you a progressive?
And you can think that I don't know if those two things, you
know, exist in that sphere. And when it comes to Gaza, for

(16:50):
me, just for me, I don't want toget political, but I have to
sometimes when you're killing that many innocent people, you
have to analyze what the heck isgoing on with that.
The uneven, the, the, the imbalance of that is, is, is
something to, to really raise, raise the now when you go into

(17:11):
fiscal sort of like spending andwhen you go into like, you know,
abortion rights and all these things, you know, I pause about
those things. And sometimes pro-life for me is
something that I think about deeply because, you know, I, I
was raised like a deeply believing Catholic and, and God
and fetus is human, you know, all of that.
But this is where I draw the line.

(17:34):
I am not a woman. I should not be in that
conversation. I should not be legislating a
woman's body. Women should be making
decisions. Women should be having control
over their, you know, they should have agency over their,
their bodies and, and the way they want to conduct life.
And whatever they decide and, and, and they decide as a, as a

(17:58):
majority, then we as men should,we should really listen and
follow in line with that sort of, you know, that's my logic on
everything. Like we have to like, listen to
everybody. Yeah, I, I do think that this is
a very important take, the important nuanced conversation
that we're having here, because I think, I think when we are

(18:20):
thinking of what is moderate, what is liberal, what is
progressive, what is right wing,the goal post keeps moving in a
way. And that's the thing that we
also have to recognize too. What was what I thought was my
moderate position like 10 years ago is now considered radically
progressive all of a sudden. So it's like it's a different
way of like, you know, how people are like viewing these

(18:41):
issues in real time. So, you know, I think that
that's also something to really consider.
And I am also like at the beginning of starting the
Vietnamese podcast in early 2020, I believe.
What was the genesis for you creating a for and what were you
doing prior to it that kind of led you to this podcast world?

(19:02):
So I was AII came out of USC with a background.
I couldn't major in it because, you know, I had transferred in.
And you, you can't get into the film program at USC because it's
like the oldest institution in the world about filmmaking.
And you have to apply a certain way.
You have to submit different types of, you know, your

(19:23):
portfolio. So by the time I got out, I knew
that I wanted to be a film producer.
So I started, you know, being a production assistant.
I was AI was a assistant at a literary agency.
And I began to make friends witha lot of Vietnamese directors
and producers. And I kind of like grew up with
these guys. And I spent so many years in the

(19:44):
early years, the 1st 10 years ofmy life in film that I was like,
I'm probably the only one qualified at the time to write a
biography on every one of these guys because I spent so much
time, Not everyone, like not 100%, but like the majority of
these guys, I was like really close friends.
And I'm like, one day I'm going to be the biographer in that,
like that one movie, Almost Famous where the, you know, the

(20:07):
little kid travels. He's like a teenager and he's
traveling with, he as a journalist on these planes with
rock stars. And that's how that I literally
felt that way. And.
I was like, I want to document all of their stories and, and
the growth of the Vietnamese film industry from America to
Vietnam and where it's at today.I was like, I'm going to be that
guy. And then so when the podcast

(20:29):
form really started to take off 15 years ago, I was like, I
really want to do this. But I was like busy and I was
afraid of technology. And I'm still am slightly afraid
of technology. But the pandemic came around and
by that time I'd been like 5 years thinking about, so I've
been thinking about this for like 11 years, 12 years.
Seriously. I was like, I have to do this.

(20:50):
And then the pandemic came around and all these kids were
on Zoom recording their studies.I was like, if they can do it, I
got to be able to do it. And then that's when I launched
into it. I, I started recording 20 or 30
of my close friends in the entertainment industry.
And then I broke my leg on a hike.
So I recorded 20 or 30 by October, by December, I, the end

(21:17):
of December, I released in January.
I remember I released in January2021, but I'd already recorded
like 20-30 episodes. And then by January 19th I go on
a hike, I break my leg on a hike.
I've already released half of those episodes.
So 10 is already released and I'm in bed for 12 weeks.
And I was like, OK, I'm going toslow release the the next 15.

(21:38):
But then I'm researching and I'mlike contacting more people and
I'm like building up this library.
I was like, this is like a deliberate sign from the
universe saying this is what you're going to be doing for the
rest of your life. And so I I just went all in.
Wow, that is incredible. I mean, it's kind of like, I
hate to say, like it had to likethis injury in a in a way, like

(22:02):
like gave you this opportunity. It opened the floodgates for you
to really go into this podcasting world.
And what did you discover like in the first year of being a
podcaster with the audience thatyou were looking to connect with
and how did they respond? What was the Vietnamese

(22:25):
podcasting landscape then that to you?
And what did you notice that people were not doing, that you
felt this is what I have to be doing?
I realized that there were not enough people spotlighting these
artists, these creators, these business people, these
historians, these academic politicians.
Not enough people were recordingthem.

(22:47):
Not enough people were, you know, it's like 90% of like them
were, were getting their storiesout.
And six years later, I feel evenan even bigger need than I did
six years ago. I feel like amplifying enough
and I'm that's why I'm so happy that you're back because we need
more voices to help amplify and spotlight the members of our

(23:11):
community. Because if we don't do it, who
else is doing it right? It's the bottom line.
So that's what I've learned. I learned the first year it's
like, Oh my God, there's a dearth.
There's a a huge missing chunk of of people being spotlight and
we don't know who these people are.
Yeah, I think I remember was listening to our episode with

(23:33):
Tracy Nguyen, I remember you were upset about Psycho Near
like stopping their podcast. And we had talked about people
like, Oh my gosh, we need them to keep going.
You know, this is an opportunity.
And I think what was I, I was kind of losing my thought there
for a moment, but I remember youhad talked about like, let's
have a seminar, let's have like this conference, like virtual in

(23:57):
person, which I think we, it could still happen, you know,
not to say that it won't, you know, but I think it really
shows that there is a need for these stories because for a long
time we have seen stories about Vietnam, the Vietnamese people
done from a white lands from a Vietnam War mindset that is more

(24:17):
from the American side. So how do we push or offer
actually, I was just saying how do we offer a narrative that
actually comes from the people from from the families who have
lived through it, from the people who are part of this

(24:37):
identity. And, and I think that is very
powerful to have that because ithumanizes us, it humanizes our
history and gives a different perspective that yes, it's not a
binary way of thinking that there's so many different

(24:58):
ethnicities in Vietnam. I think that there's so many
different political ideologies that are not linear, you know,
they're not universal here. And I think that's, I think this
is what really made me realize is that, you know, the more I
got into podcasting, the more I became very interested in both
my Vietnamese and Cambodian history.
And, you know, it led me to finally go on my solo trip last

(25:21):
December. And gosh, I felt so rejuvenated
from that trip and so much to absorb.
Because I know you've been back several times.
What has that been like for you to come back the last, I'd say
maybe the last 10 years in termsof what you have seen with
Vietnam and what you have been documenting from the Vietnam

(25:44):
homeland? You know, I have a lot of
different viewpoints about it because I'm like, if you are, if
I put on the Vietnamese Americanhat in Vietnam, that becomes a
different perspective. But if I put on the Vietnamese
Vietnamese hat, it's a differentperspective.
And if I put on like an Anglo sort of white like lens on it,
it's a totally different thing. And what I'm learning is like

(26:07):
having friends in the multicultural space who
sometimes parents are like, half, you know, Mexican, half
Vietnamese. And then with the little splash
of Dominican, and we are all immigrants.
Even white people are immigrants.
That is the funniest thing, right?

(26:28):
We are all, like, imposter syndrome walking around.
So when I get to Vietnam, I haveto like let go of thinking that
I am Vietnamese American or Vietnamese or take off my Anglo
sax. It's the weirdest thing.
I have to complete keep like a very open mind about the changes

(26:49):
in the developments because for everything that they do, it
benefits somebody and it really takes away from somebody all
that development and touting District 2, all of like these
like French villas. Yeah, I mean, somebody's
benefiting from that. But a lot of people are getting
hurt and things are being taken away, right.

(27:12):
And that's just the equation of society.
It's it's a brutal way of looking at my brother's living a
great life. You know, he's from here, from
the from the US and LA with me. And he's been there for 21
years. And he's part of the landscaping
in Vietnam now. And when I go back, I stay with
him. It's like going to my second
home. I go once or twice a year.

(27:33):
It becomes a very regular routine.
So if I were my Vietnamese American, kind of like I'm
family with family, it's a very different approach.
And I blinded to the growth of aVietnam beyond District 7
because that's kind of where my brother stays.
And I don't go out and I'm just like a hermit at his house.

(27:54):
And I'll go to dinners, but I don't like really would go out
and rage. And the gradual sort of
progression of Vietnam and the and the skyscrapers.
I mean, yeah, you could clock that visually.
But in terms of like really getting to know it, you got to
really dig deeper to know how sinister the changes can be for
one group of people and how abundantly like advantageous it

(28:16):
is for another group of people. Yeah, I remember going to
Vietnam the first time in twentyO 9 to Ho Chi Minh City, Saigon,
whichever you want to spend it as.
But like, I went there with my uncle and this was my first time
I had lived in Korea just a couple months, you know, for a
couple months in and I was very green to the idea of travelling,

(28:38):
let alone to a homeland that I really can't speak Vietnamese
very well at all. And I remembered like the
servers, the taxicab drivers, they were all like criticizing
the fact that I can't speak Vietnamese.
And it, and it felt, I felt veryunwelcome the first time that I
went. And, and even though I really
did like my family hometown, I, I really enjoyed being away from

(29:00):
the city life. I was below the Mekong was the
An Yang province. And I felt like it's at least
some sense of, I don't want to say closure, but at least a
deeper understanding of my roots.
And I didn't go back to Vietnam for another 15 years until very
recently. And I decided to go to Hanoi,

(29:23):
Northern Province and Central Vietnam, Hui Danang and Hoi An.
I chose not to do Saigon and because or visit family members
because when I had also was trying to visit Cambodia.
So I was in a short timeline, but also because I didn't want
to be, I didn't want to be like obligated to family and I didn't

(29:45):
want to be stuck with family. I feel like I need to discover
things about myself now that I'min my 40s, now that I'm in a
different space in my life now, because where I was at 2526 is
very different to this version. So, so how do I, how do I build
the kind of relationship that I want to have for myself?

(30:07):
And, and that also meant gettingrid of expectations of what
going to Vietnam was Vietnam andCambodia was going to be for me.
And, you know, because of that, I felt like I came away with a
lot more and it's definitely made me want to tap more into my
identities. And I'm, I'm very curious about
what that has looked like when you visit places like, you know,

(30:30):
the enemy territory that we, youknow, we're told for so long.
I'm curious about like, you know, visiting other places
outside of the hometown. That's a great question, really
great question. Enemy territory, quote UN quote.
But you know, I could feel the same way if I go to DC now,
right? It's the same, right?

(30:53):
And a lot of people listening tothis might go, that's unfair.
Come on now. But we, we choose to label
things and I don't label DC as enemy territory, nor do I label
Vietnam's government today as enemy territory.
So let let's be clear about that.
I don't, I, I don't dare to say that maybe, you know, an
honoring the people that died and passed away and displaced,

(31:15):
you know, in honoring their legacies, maybe that's enemy
territory for them, but it's notenemy territory for me anymore.
Growing up, it was programmed for you and I, right, programmed
to think that. So I drive by Hanoi and Ho Chi
Minh's mausoleum with the very sort of like a neutral feel,

(31:35):
right? I try to like check in and see
what I'm feeling. Why do I feel this way?
You know, but that guy's a hero to like a million people that
are million people that are living in Vietnam, but not my
hero. But but I can also recognize his
contribution to that independence, that country's

(31:58):
independence, right? I can, I can recognize it free
and, and, and clear of, of any moral sort of feeling inside of
me. But also not, I can't do that
when I think about my dad and myuncles and stuff, I can't like
let that go because of them. But for me, I mean, it's like, I

(32:18):
think that's the nuance that I always preach about.
It's like we have to be able to kind of identify we can't take
on the enemies of our parents. That's just like, that is
draining, man. That is like the first, that is
like the first order of businesswhen you go to Vietnam is like,
remove this idea that, you know,these people or this government

(32:41):
is your enemy too, because that's not that's not healthy.
That's never going to be healthy.
So, yeah, I mean, looking at thered flag with the yellow star
sometimes is a little uncomfortable, you know, but
that's programming that we have to kind of like we have to
identify inside of us. Like, why do we feel that way?
Why do we feel, oh, but now there's a new programming, which

(33:03):
is when J6 January 6 happened, you see, you know, the yellow
flag with the three stripes. It's like, wait a minute,
that's, that's weird too. That symbol is that symbols,
those symbols are like on, on, on, on the footsteps of of our
capital. And it's representing something
that me, you know, child of the South, I don't align with that.

(33:24):
That's like, that's like the weirdest thing to to, to to have
happen in in the modern times for Vietnamese American.
It, it is something that I struggle with in terms of like
when I went to Hanoi, I had a great time, had a wonderful
time. There's friends that I know that
live in Hanoi and, and this is avery, this is my reality that I

(33:47):
work with here. You know, this is like, I don't
have the prior history to to that I lived through.
So I had to get rid of that and felt that way about Cambodia to
some extent. And I think when you walk into
these places, like, yeah, like Ihave to drop a lot of those
biases that, you know, were in my head for so long.

(34:10):
But even when I go to like Orange County or San Jose, you
know, there's always this weird,like I look at the South
Vietnamese flag and, and I also serve on an association of
Vietnamese association and there's this weird traumatic
response to the flag. You know, it feels like it's

(34:33):
anger, anger, anger, you know, and I know I'm not in that place
because. And also people younger than us,
we're not, this is not our, thisis not our battle.
I think a lot of us instead wantto go back to Vietnam to really
connect or to define what Vietnamese, being Vietnamese

(34:54):
American is like here, you know,like doing her own things, not
being so tied heavily to the warand to the ongoing trauma from
our parents and grandparents, what have you.
And I know that you have lamented many times at how much
you do not want to to like, you know, beat the Vietnam War as a
drum. Like it's, it's, I mean, for me,
I feel the same way with that and Khmer Rouge.

(35:15):
I get really bogged down by it because I don't want to see
myself having that history as anidentity marker.
It's an experience. It's it's part of the package.
But this is just, there's so much that we have done since
then and where we have evolved to.

(35:35):
But I think when you love you look back in the Vietnamese
communities in America, what is that feeling?
Because I feel like what our parents are, there's this,
there's a lot of resentment thatyes, they lost their land.
They lost, they had to deal withso much.
And, you know, and the South Vietnamese flag is this last
reminder. I, I, I think it goes both ways

(35:57):
because I do see it as a reminder of the pain and past.
But there's also pride. Like, you know what, we're still
here, you know, we're, you know,we're still more powerful or
however you want to defy it, define it.
There's something about that flag that that raises a lot of
emotions. And I think as it should, you

(36:18):
know, things that we as a community, we should honor, you
know, we should honor that old flag.
Sure, I get it. But we shouldn't ignore that.
There's another conversation too.
We're having right now the nuances of of all of these
modern identity. Sort of, I think there's like a
resistance from the younger generation, people who are born

(36:42):
here to kind of ignore, like, I mean, it's just natural tendency
for, for humans to grow out of what you know, and rebel against
what your parents think. And I think that we OK, but it's
also OK to, to to challenge. I think it's also OK to, to
really question. But I don't think it's OK to

(37:02):
disrespect the people who have died and the people who have
like suffered, You know, I don'tthink that's OK.
I don't think that's OK on any on either side.
You know, I think when you're attacking either side and, and
laughing at people's dying and, and lost, that's when it's not
OK. You know, look, I, I, I go by
this, it's like, and this is thehardest thing to go by.

(37:24):
Like I don't care if you're Christian.
I don't care if you're like Muslim.
I don't care if you're Jewish. I don't care if you're anything.
But if you come to me and you can't practice this idea and
show love and kindness, now whatgood is all these religions,
right? What is what good is all these
parameters and these doctrines and these canons and these,

(37:44):
these, these doctorates who write about like your, your
religious texts and, and breaking it down like all that
means crap to me. If you can't just simply love,
be kind to your neighbor, right?That's just like one O 1 life,
one O 1. And if and and they're always
like, you know, whoever it is, it's like Bible thumpers are

(38:06):
like, you know, the Muslim, you know, we live in these like
weird extremist views when all you got to do is ask yourself,
pull out the litmus test. Is this love and kindness or is
it not? That's all we got to ask.
And typically, if you are, you know, in business, that question

(38:28):
can be compromised. You know, if you're in the
business of the military and yougot to follow orders, that
litmus test is or politics, you it's compromised.
And then you got people who use the compromise to cloak it with
religion and and all of that. So there's all these weird
concoctions of symbols like the flag and, you know, we all use

(38:49):
that excuse. But at the end of the day, do I
look at people in Vietnam with love, compassion, kindness?
And am I looking at people in Gaza?
I would love compassion, kindness.
And that is the most important thing.
You know, the government and thepoliticians are up to their
funny business, right? We just know that.
So at the end of the day, it's really just about that for me,

(39:10):
love, compassion, kindness. And that that itself takes maybe
several lifetimes to master the black belt.
You know of that practice, to love and to seek that kind of
behavior. Yeah.
And I always, I always think about like, how do we deepen
compassion, you know, and deepenour empathy?
And I think that's something I think about constantly.

(39:32):
Yes. Do I get angry?
Do I, you know, wish horrible things for unredeemable people?
In my opinion, yeah, I've done that before.
But I'm also like, but, but there's always this wanting to
see people transform themselves to become more open, to be more

(39:54):
tender and to be more vulnerablein that sense.
And I think that we have to be OK with our vulnerabilities.
And I think that's also a big step to this.
I also wonder about your audiences, like, you know, with
the Vietnamese folks in America,Canada, France, wherever.
To Vietnam, what help the audiences?

(40:15):
How did they respond to your podcast, especially since you
take it from such a full angle, full broader angle, you know,
Because I know that you're not just going from a Vietnamese
American perspective, I mean, ora Vietnamese diasporic
perspective, but really the fullness of it.
What has that been like navigating between so many
different worlds? Great question, a really good

(40:37):
question. I think, and this is me showing
off, I'm going to, I'm going to show off and I'm going to be,
I'm going to boast about what I'm about to say.
This is the biggest form of flattery for me is that people
say that my conversations with my guests has been very open and

(40:59):
very fair. And I think that for me is the,
the, the, the, the thing that I'm most proud about with the
podcast is that ability to admit, Hey, I'm a little biased
in this department right now, orI'm a little bit biased on, on
that side. And I'm opening them and I'm,
I'm free with that idea that, hey, I got these biases.

(41:22):
But when I'm coming to the tableto talk with the guest, I got to
let the guest know, Hey, I'm, I'm biased here.
And I know that I'm biased. I know I shouldn't be feeling
this way, but this is how I feel.
And then we can talk about, we can open it up.
But that's I, I, I'm very proud of that fact that people all
over the world says, like, I don't feel like people come and
say, man, you're leaning one wayand it shows the hate, right?

(41:45):
I think people are saying, man, you're like being very honest.
You don't know what you're talking about.
If you don't know what you're talking about, you're being very
honest about it. And I think that's why we're
here. We're here to like chip away at
our ignorance. And you know, I'll bring in this
example. I was at a bar the other night
with two of my friends and there's a table of of people.

(42:08):
And I looked at the table and myfriend made a comment.
I like a really nice comment andI made a really negative
comment. I won't repeat what that comment
is, but I made a really negativecomment.
And then my friend looked at me and said, now, now that's not
kind. I'm still, I'm 50 years old this
month, November, and I am still having to check myself with its

(42:31):
toxicity. This, this idea of kindness.
I like I said, it's lifetimes of, of growth of, of saying, you
know what, my God, I turned my buddy Daniel and I was like, yo,
man, you are right. And I felt the sting of that for
days after that. So when I think about the
comments or all of these people across the world, Vietnamese

(42:52):
people or or not, because there's a lot of people who are
not Vietnamese that chime in, I realized that the more open and
aware of our biases and being honest with it is key.
And knowing that like things that we say, I mean, I

(43:13):
personally like as a public figure, things that I say have a
lot of room for, for growth and improvement.
And I think that that has to show that has to be something
that you kind of have to always put that out there because it's
hard to be perfect. It's impossible to be perfect.
And you shouldn't be like aimingfor perfection.

(43:33):
You should be aiming for authenticity and honesty.
I also think about you sharing about having impositive
syndrome. I know that you have said this
to me several times in the past.You're like, whenever I would
compliment you, you would feel very embarrassed.
You would feel a bit like, you know what?
No, I mean, you would I, I wouldalways get the I would, I would

(43:57):
always get the responses from you that you're downplaying
yourself. And I'm like, dude, Kenneth, I
know you're a better interviewerthan me.
And I say this with faux honesty, not to say that I'm a
bad interviewer. Like, I do feel like I, I'm good
at what I do, but I'm like, yeah, but I also take a lot of
inspiration from your curiosity and your genuineness to really

(44:20):
learn. And also being able to have high
level conversations from like all aspects of of like different
sectors, whether it's in entertainment, whether it's in
education, whether it's in finance.
I mean, like, I think being a journalist, being a person that

(44:44):
does this work, you have to havea level of curiosity.
You have to have some knowledge,at least enough of a knowledge
to ask questions. And you don't necessarily have
to be the expert in everything. I think this is something that I
always have to tell people like at least do enough work.
At least do enough work so you can ask the right questions and
that you can that you can get tothe heart of the matter and know

(45:08):
the work that you want to do andwhat you want as an outcome.
How do you or how are you still managing this imposter syndrome
that you have been feeling as a podcaster and as a public figure
now? I think that the more reps you
do the that eventually gets eroded the imposter syndrome.

(45:30):
On my 6th year, starting my 6th year now and I feel like it has
diminished. It has diminished because just
knowing, just reviewing the tapein my mind, like no man, I, I am
lifting heavy weights and not hip heavyweights in terms of
like meeting people. And no, the heavy weights of
doing this all the time, right? I'm constantly doing it.

(45:52):
Like I, I can't take that away from myself anymore.
And I just have to be like very proud of the fact that like I'm
hitting the, the, the proverbialgem of this all a lot.
Like I'm obsessed with it. And, you know, I have to
challenge myself and say, find somebody else who's more
obsessed about this subject thanme.

(46:15):
And that helps with the impostersyndrome.
After five years now, you know, it really puts a wet cloth over
that fire of imposter syndrome. I'm, I'm, I'm learning to, to,
to look around and go, wait, everybody's not, not, not
everybody's here. You're in the gym.
You're the only one in the gym at 4:00 in the morning.
And you're, you're, you're, you're cranking this out.

(46:36):
And by the way, I am in the gym every morning at 5, you know,
like, that's sort of like I get up at 4:30 and I'm like in the
gym by 5. And I'm just, you know, this is,
this is what is is is is required to have that imposter
syndrome be chipped away. Yeah, I'm really glad that it
has shipped away tremendously because I because like for

(46:58):
people like you, you have put inthe work.
I mean you could speak very wellto it.
You it's also the qualitative guest, the qualitative
conversations that you're havingand the way you connect with
community. I think that's something that we
have to remind ourselves. Like, I think, you know, being,
you know, both and identities with the Vietnamese and
Cambodian Cambodians especially,there is this idea of humility

(47:22):
and that we have to keep downplaying ourselves.
And for me, I've had to like, no, I should be taking up space.
Now, Should I take up space all the time when I when it's not
necessary? No, of course not.
But I think that when I'm doing the work and it speaks to it,
then hell, yeah, I will. And whether I'm invited or not,

(47:43):
like, I feel like, yeah, I have something to say about it.
I can speak to this work. And I remember when I started,
like, maybe several months in, and this was during the
pandemic, I had to interview Viet Tan Nguyen, who's a friend
of yours as well. And he is a Pulitzer Prize
winner of The Sympathizer. He's a commentator.
He's an author of several books and he was my first big guess.

(48:09):
And I think Time Hotline was like around that same time too,
I believe. But for me, that was like my
white whale at that time becauseI was only several months into
it. I had no idea where this podcast
was going to go into. And honestly, I felt like
massive imposter syndrome because I'm like, here I am.
I am kind of a rookie in this. I don't have the platform, the

(48:32):
big platform. I don't have like the name
recognition or whatever. And I remember trying to catch
up with him intellectually because he is a very intense
interviewer. Like he's very hyper.
He's very energetic in what he does.
And he brings so much knowledge and wisdom to his interviews to
the point where I'm like, by thetime I got done with him, I told

(48:56):
a friend I was like, God, I am. I'm done for the rest of the
day. I need to be in in a dark room
and just take a long nap becauseI was so exhausted.
But I think what I learned during that time was I felt a
lot of my people pleasing tendencies really come into play
where I felt like I know I'm notas smart as this guest.

(49:18):
I'm not as, you know, knowledgeable as this guest.
And I would kind of tell myself that and I guess in some false
way of humility. And I felt like I was trying to
like cater way too much like, oh, you know, let, let me, let
me try to make sure that everything is in your favor.
And, and I realized that, no, this is not how I want to go

(49:43):
about my work. As time went on and I think
coming back, I noticed that change has happened, like when I
interviewed via time when the second time, I was already
feeling like confident and self assured about what I was doing.
And let's have a real conversation.
And I've had that with a few of my return guests.
This coming back to this podcastand and there's more

(50:06):
assertiveness, there's more curiosity, there's me not
pulling any punches. So, and I think that that's what
I've learned. Do you find yourself noticing
the changes that you have made over the years, especially with,
you know, people pleasing tendencies and this feeling

(50:27):
like, Oh my gosh, I feel a little intimidated to talk to
this guest. I don't know if I can handle it,
you know, from both, you know, speaking in Vietnamese in the
native language and with Englishspeaking Vietnamese folks.
That's not only a good question,but it's a very insightful
question because you have to kind of have to live that

(50:48):
experience to actually ask questions like that.
And I, and I recognize that and I am, I'm very grateful for that
question. And the reason I am is because
nobody's ever asked me that before.
And, and, and I always think about that experience of, of, of
getting the door slammed, the, you know, the door slam, quote
UN quote in your face saying no.And it's like, I have been

(51:13):
reaching out to friends of mine who are famous friends and
getting no response back, right?That's been good over years.
And then out of the blue, you know, there is a hey, Ken, can I
get on your show? Right.
That has happened to me so many times.
And for one reason or another, they're busy.
They're like they're shooting orthey're you know, they're just

(51:34):
not into it or they're just likeyou're not big enough or they're
just like, you know, I've been going through a rough through
your patch and or I'm going through some legal hell.
There's so many different reasons.
But I am here now to not ask why.
I'm just, I'm going to knock on the door and I'm going to do my
reps. I'm going to show up at the gym
at 5:00 AM every morning to knock on the door of my guests.

(51:56):
And I'm not going to worry abouthow I feel because sometimes I
get to the gym and I'm like thinking like, Oh my God, I'm so
tired. But once you start to warm up
with like a few, and I use this because I use this analogy a lot
in my life now, is that, Oh my God, there's days where my body
is as no more gym and then I getthere and then I'm like, all

(52:17):
right, I'll just do a few lightweight sets for the 1st 10
minutes and I get revved and warmed up.
Same thing with this. Like this question is people
have their own ideas of what youare, but we can't be bogged down

(52:37):
with why they are because then you're going to realize like, Oh
my God, some bigger people will reach out and want to be a guest
on the show and they're very humble, but they're like, wait a
minute, Those people are like knocking on your door to be on
your show and they're bigger than other your of your friends
and their fame. And you're like, this is weird.

(52:58):
This is so my point is the more you do something like in your
field and you just keep doing itover and over and over again,
you will find some funny things,some funny patterns like bigger
names will hit hit you up and really be sort of like humble
about getting on your show and and you're like, what?
This is so weird. And then smaller names will say,

(53:18):
we'll flat out ignore you or deny you And then they'll see
you in public. And I'm like, oh, Oh my God.
I just want to let you know, I just felt like a an imposter.
I didn't. I couldn't.
Come back. I have.
I've had that before too. And even in story time before I
got on the podcast, like I, I know like some of these friends
for years and I'm like, I know you have a story to tell.

(53:39):
And I would always hear that I don't have a story to tell.
I don't think anybody wants to listen.
It's not important enough. And like says, and I'm like
saying, says who you know, who'stelling you that?
You know, and I think that's something I try to tell with
folks because there are folks that community members that have
reached out specifically, you know, when I like well deep into

(54:01):
the podcast. Well, some have said I don't
know if I could be on your show,if I'm good enough to be on your
show. Yeah.
It's and I and I would tell them, I already know why I want
you on my show. And, and here's what I'll tell
you. I feel you have something very
important. And this is what I want.
This is what I need and this is what the people need.

(54:24):
This is what our communities need.
And I know that in my, you know,heart of hearts, I do believe
that, yes, I like, I like to work with the idea of I think
this is what people should need.And, and I don't care if you are
a $10 million per movie actor tosomeone who is just working

(54:45):
within the community working soup kitchens.
I don't care. Like, I feel like as long as I
feel like it's connecting to something that really hits my
mission and my audience, this isimportant.
I don't want to like stray away from it.
And actually, some of the betterepisodes I've had have been from
community, grassroot community folks that no one, no one knows.

(55:07):
And I really firmly believe in that so.
But this is what I do want to say.
What I've learned now is this. If you are here to get the big
names and blah, blah, blah, blah, on to boost numbers and

(55:27):
this is not going to work. What you need to what this is
for me, what I've learned is that Oh my God, these people are
willing to share their lives with me.
I'm here for it. And I feel like it's a privilege
to be able. So even if this was not
broadcasted to people and nobodylistened, if somebody said, Hey,

(55:47):
here's like 1000 doors, you can come in and mine for information
and these people are willing to sit and talk with you for 2-3
hours or whatever, have at it. I'm, I'm picking that, I'm
picking that. And if they're like, Oh, you'll
never, we don't want it to be broadcasted and it's just for
you. What kind of a privileged life
am I leading by having thousandsof people allow me to walk into

(56:13):
their lives and record their brains and, and, and their
thoughts and their legacies of their, their, their lives within
the Vietnamese context. Oh my God, I'm so lucky to like,
so I look at that. It's a gift.
So I'm like, if, if the universeis gifting that to me, I will
take it. And I don't need the big
numbers. I really don't.

(56:35):
I mean, I, I, I, I truck along and I get motivated because
people are opening doors and letting me into their minds and
their mind space. I think you've done the work.
I think you've really showed it,you know, I mean, and it's also
being genuine and people could tell when you're authentic or
not. And I have seen people that get
up that get so fixated on feeling like they have to get

(56:56):
the high big names. And I don't think that makes the
podcast like otherwise it's going to be the same boring shit
that you hear from other podcasters.
And like I, I, I feel like you have to like really stand out in
a different way. What is it that you actually
offer that other people who havenot listened to podcast would
tune into? You know who I've always wanted,

(57:18):
And I've told this to people. And I think you know the answer
to this. I have been so jealous that
you've gotten Ocean Vong on. I've been trying to get this guy
for the last six years. And, you know, I think I'm kind
of like that point where I'm ready to move on.
I mean, I think once he got an Oprah, I'm like, you know what?
I think I need to move on. But how?

(57:39):
I mean, that was like one of my favorite interviews.
I don't know how you got them, but yeah.
I'm yeah, can I say something about that?
I I it was a fluke, I think at the time.
And I have friends who who know him and, and made the
introductions and I think he wasa lot less busy and, and he
wasn't that big at the not, he was big, but not like he's like

(58:01):
massive now. But I think it's like one of
those things because I've come back and asked several times for
another interview because he's put out two more books since,
you know, the book, the poem book and then the, the, the
other, the most recent one. So I've reached out several
times to his, his team and I don't get I, I don't get him.
It's, it's just, and I've been to his readings in LA and, you

(58:25):
know, we have friends who know him personally and who have, you
know, been in his life. And still it's an uphill battle.
And I think that if I continually think about any one
person, it's unhealthy for me because the doors like it was

(58:48):
open the first time on on Earth,we were briefly gorgeous, the
door for me then and then the last two books we're not.
And you know, I get that and andI understand how that plays out.
And then somebody like Vietnam win is somebody that I am
fortunate enough to go to dinnerwith a few times a year and see

(59:10):
them at all the events. And, you know, he lives near me
and my kids and his kids like we'll be out in town.
We and we'll run into each otherat the mall.
You know, this, this is. But how many people are like,
you know, at that ocean viewing level that we can't access?
And, you know, I'm I'm I'm blessed.
And when I think about that one time I got to interview him.

(59:32):
But if that, you know, never happens again, it's a sad thing
for me, for sure. I'm not denying that.
That's a very it's a tough thingto to to to think about.
And I'd love to have him on backagain.
And if I ever talk to him and get him on, I will let him know
that. It is a lifelong dream that
Randy Kim from The Bundy Chronicles want it, wants him

(59:54):
back, wants him on the on the show.
Yeah, 'cause I feel like I can have.
A very good conversation. Yeah, we'll see what happens.
I mean, but I'm also. Like, don't give up.
I'd say don't give up. But there's, there's so many
people that I really want to, you know, bring on like, you
know, indie authors. There's like, there's like
people that have not reached thesurface quite yet.

(01:00:14):
But I really do value their work.
And I do see importance in what they're talking about in this
day and age. And like, So what do you see
yourself doing in the next several months Leading with
2026? What does it look like for you
in terms of your projects and your podcasts?
So I will hopefully do more films.

(01:00:38):
I have a passion obviously for producing films and producing
more, more podcast episodes. But the most important thing is
this challenge to speak into thecamera and have.
I have these monologues. You don't have these really
controversial thoughts. And I really want to get them

(01:00:58):
out there. You know, I started telling you
earlier about this idea of, you know, Dean Cain signed up to be
an ICE agent, right? And I'm like, if he knew people
of color and was close with communities of people that were
just trying to make a living andjust trying to be supporting

(01:01:21):
their families. I don't know if he would do
that. I don't know if you would become
an ICE agent. I think people are really
disconnected from from people. And here's their example I want
to give for 35 years, I've been going to Home Depot every few
months to, to, to I have a project, a building project, or

(01:01:43):
I have to move a whole factory. That would take like a week.
And I've done this about 7 or 8 times.
But I've also had little projects where I needed to build
something and I needed guys to, to help me put it together, move
a house, remodel something. So what happens ends up
happening is I used to when I first started as a teenager, I
would go to the Home Depot and drive and then scan people's

(01:02:06):
faces and workers, you know, daylaborers without papers.
And I would look at their face and I'd be like, you know, based
on your face, you look like you're going to steal something
from my house or you're going torob me and, and call people in
to, to rob my factory, right? Those were the thoughts that I
was having because we, we just didn't know, right.

(01:02:28):
And then over the years, I started to develop this sort of
like this comfort of picking up day laborers from Home Depot.
And within a few minutes we're joking about like food and
eating dog tacos. That's what I am serving them
for lunch and making all these cultural jokes about like who
they are. And I speak a little Spanish.

(01:02:49):
So we go back and forth. And then by the end of the day,
what I recognize is all of thoseguys become like brothers to me.
And for 35 years I've been doingthat.
And then the last maybe 2 years,because of like all of the
political stuff, I just started to drop this whole idea of like
looking at faces. I'm just, I'm going to pick up
anybody, right? Anybody who's standing out

(01:03:09):
there. The first guy that comes up, I'm
just going to pick them up. I take them in within 510
minutes. We're bantering.
We're talking about like funny things.
And I'll just jab at them and, you know, joke around.
And So what I realized is like, we can get close to people
fairly quickly if we can recognize there are other human
beings. And this whole idea of ICE and

(01:03:30):
this politicization of, of immigrants and all of that, it's
a multifaceted thing. It's a very nuanced thing.
You know, one of my political heroes is Barack Obama.
He deported more people than anypresident in, in, in the history
of the United States. He did.
A lot of that, Oh yeah, I used to work in immigration work

(01:03:50):
before. So yeah, I definitely,
definitely remember that very well.
But how he did it was different from how they're doing it today.
So I mean, there's that nuance. But my point is, I want to talk
about that. I want to, you know, come at it.
And so I have like a hundred of those episodes that I don't have
the courage to do. And it's just like me back in
five years before I started the podcast, I had this idea that

(01:04:12):
that I wanted to do it one day. But once I start locking in and
I do one or two or five or ten, I think I'm going to have that
like it's like a, an, an ancillary thing to the podcast,
which is me going off on my rantinto the into the camera.
And, and I want to do that. Like I really want to do that in
2026 If not now. I want to start now, but I don't

(01:04:34):
hurt to do it. I think that's great that you're
doing like, you know, capturing these stories that you have like
in real life. And I think that that you're a
conversationalist by nature and to see you do monologues,
especially for your podcast, I think would be awesome to do.
Like I when I first got back on my podcast, like I was doing
like, you know, my own mono episodes like the first two, and

(01:04:59):
I hope I'll do more of that as well.
And I used to feel very nervous about going off script and, and,
you know, being able to just talk like without anyone to have
a conversation with. And I think, you know, being on
TikTok doing like Instagram videos and blah, blah, blah.

(01:05:20):
That has helped me a lot. And I realized, like, wow, I can
really, you know, feel very comfortable stepping in.
I read your sub stack. So that is what basically I want
to do on the video form. Yeah.
So you have that courage to put the words out there and you have
that like intestinal fortitude to say, you know, I'm going to

(01:05:41):
speak my truth and I haven't reached that point yet.
So that that's that question that you're saying, what does
the future look like? I want to be able to do what you
do on sub stack in video form. And I just want to like, I
really want to live in that space.
You inspire me that way. You know, I've wanted to do this
for five years. When I started the podcast, I
had this itch to to give the monologue and I'm seeing you do

(01:06:02):
it with your sub stack. And I'm like, I want that.
I want to be able to do that in video form.
Yeah. No, I'm, I'm really glad that,
you know, we continue to inspireeach other.
And I'm so glad that you're still doing the podcast and
you've never given up, you know,and that's not the shame.
You know, previous podcasters, Imean, people have their own
different direction and ambitions to tap into.

(01:06:24):
I think that's awesome. And I've seen people really
evolve because of that. I am so glad that I can listen
to you every other day and just hearing the conversations that
are happening in our communitiesconstantly and I feel like that
has only deepened my curiosity about the community.

(01:06:46):
You know, I think at the end of the day, as funny as this is
going to sound, I really do believe it.
It sounds hippy dippy, but the end of the day, we are all like
one big Organism. We're just one Part 1 big
massive Petri Petri dish. We're like existing as one unit,

(01:07:07):
but there's some like on the outer edges of the other side.
And, you know, we're all over the place in this massive Petri
dish. But we're all one Organism.
And I think that a living Organism is battling within
itself constantly to grow and tosplit molecules and cells.
And all this growth is happeningand it's happening violently.

(01:07:30):
But I think in the overall picture, I don't know if the
universe will ever stop, but if it ever stopped, we recognize
that we're all like part of 11 big giant Organism.
And that's the way I look at at life.
And there's no reason to kind ofstress out over like the people
in the Trump administration doing their thing and people in

(01:07:50):
the far left doing their thing. And, you know, I mean, it's
painful to see death and and destruction and loss, but at the
end of the day, I don't know if focusing on all of that
negativity is going to really heal us, you know?
Yeah, no, I, I really appreciatethis conversation and I'm so

(01:08:12):
glad that I can finally have an interview with you and like,
learn about the work that you have been doing.
I hope that my listeners can check into the Vietnamese
Podcast with Kenneth Wynn. It's available on all streaming
platforms, YouTube, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, and
and so forth. Please follow the Vietnamese

(01:08:33):
Podcast on Instagram. And yeah, any closing remarks
that you have. Randy, I am so happy that you
are back in the fold. I'm very inspired by the work
that you've done when you took the time off because it was just
it, it wasn't like you went dark.
You just took up another form. And I think that's a form of

(01:08:55):
growth. And now that you're back, I
think even your relax style today is very different from two
years ago, you know, and shows, it shows tremendous amount of
growth. And I'm, I'm, I'm here for it.
And I'm so glad that I'm here today and that you brought me
on. And it's an honor truly is an
honor to to be part of your growth and be a part of our

(01:09:20):
community together. So I'm very proud of our
relationship, by by the way, yeah.
Yeah, very. I'm very grateful for our
friendship and hope to see you very soon.
And you know, we'll talk again. Thank you, Randy.
Thank you so much. Stay tuned.