Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Bex Rose (00:00):
Having the why made
decision making so much easier
(00:04):
in the ESL T space because youget thrown in so many
opportunities all the time fromdifferent places, places,
people, things, opportunities,just get thrown in your desk all
the time. And I made the mistakewhen I first started and teach
and SL T was saying Yes, thatsounds cool. Cool. That sounds
cool. That sounds cool. Thatsounds cool. And you end up
(00:25):
getting this absolutely overcrammed calendar. But as soon as
you then pull it back and yougo, actually this is our why is
this going to contribute? Is itgoing to enhance? Is it going to
help to support that? Why? Thebetter mindset podcast.
Mark Herring (00:44):
Welcome to the
better mindset Podcast, episode
five, I'm not hearing and I'mBeck's rose conversations about
leadership, learning andeducational technologies. On
today's episode, Connor McCallfrom Microsoft, New Zealand
joins us to help us engage ourstudents through the world of
Esports we dive into theopportunities that chat GP t
always get that wrong has forteachers in the classroom with
(01:07):
Adrian, and we go deep into theimportance of the why for your
personal and professional lives.
Well, pics making waves thisweek is my turn. So this is
something that I've beenthinking about a little while.
And it's actually a bit of ashameless plug for my Instagram
account, because I made a postrecently a carousel post mark
dark to hearing in Zed by theway, but it's all around this
(01:28):
whole idea of y being moreimportant than your vision.
Okay, so I just wanted to have aconversation about this because
a lot of schools are in a placewhere sometimes they don't have
everybody on the same page interms of their y. And often
schools that we work with don'teven have a vision or if they do
have a vision. It might be mightbe defined might be on the wall,
(01:51):
you know, they've got a missionstatement. But what is actually
missing is the why behind whythey exist and the whole
motivation of what they'redoing. So in a school context,
sort of around, you know, whatyou're trying to achieve with
the students and what kind ofeducation, purpose and
motivation do you have forexisting, and it's really
important for people to be onthe same page about that. So I
just wanted to go through acouple of things that I think
(02:13):
are really important for makingsure that everybody's got the
same why, but can I give you a?
You must have seen that post, bythe way. I think
Bex Rose (02:22):
I follow you. As soon
as you post, I like it.
Mark Herring (02:27):
It's there. Like,
that's fantastic. All right,
well, I'll give you a littlestory. And a reason why. For me,
this is a big thing, I guess alittle bit of a mistake that I
made years ago. So I was inleadership at a school. And we
made a I made a calleffectively, because that was
when I made the classic mistakeof making a rather large change
(02:48):
within the first six months ofme being there. And it was a
school that had some very sicktraditions, they had things that
they were doing, you know, andit was one of those schools
where things were only runningfor two or three years before it
was like, this is the way we dothings, you know, it's like,
it's like a tradition. But whenyou actually dig deeper, it's
like it's only four or fiveyears old. It's not like it was
100 years ago. And what Idecided to do was change the
(03:12):
camp, which until I came for afew years was a trip to an
island. So they took the seniorclass, everybody looked forward
to it, they took that class toan island for effectively the
way I saw it was a bit of aholiday. And I wanted to change
it round to a bit more of anoutdoor adventure camp. Now, the
blowback that I got on thatdecision, not only from the
(03:34):
kids, but from some of the noteverybody, but a good section of
the parents was actually quitestrong. And the decision didn't
really go down. Well, it took meprobably a couple of years to
roll that through before peoplekind of saw the value to it and
accept that. And then it becamesomething that they look forward
to. And I'm pretty sure theschool continues that style of
(03:54):
camp now. But it was a reallygood example for me to look back
and reflect on the fact that thecommunity, the people, a lot of
the people in the community, theparents who were bringing their
kids to the school had a verydifferent why behind what they
wanted out of their educationexperience than I did and what
my wife being involved in theschool and you know, teachers
(04:15):
and leaders in schools, sweat,blood and tears, don't we, you
know, we really worked hard, andI couldn't understand why I was
getting the blowback. The reasonis because we had different y's.
So when I reflect the parents,why was about the students
having a very similar experienceto what they had. So it was
about replicating theirchildhood. the why behind school
(04:39):
was about encouraging childrento have amazing experiences and
to connect with family it was avery community family orientated
school. But my why was quitedifferent. My Why was about
encouraging growth, aboutdevelopment about pushing
outside your comfort zones aboutdoing things that were a little
bit hard because I knew that fora lot of those students. That
(05:00):
They had, you know, their, theirlifestyle. And their whole
upbringing was amazing. And itwas all about lifestyle
experiences. And I wanted tokind of push them a little bit.
So that was why I wanted thatoutdoor adventure stream. So
just a little bit of an exampleof having people on different
different ways. Have you seenthat in some of the schools that
you've worked in?
Bex Rose (05:20):
Absolutely, I was also
part of a leadership team. And
we had a change in leadership,bit of a change in guards after
25 years of the same principle.
And then a new principal came inand I was the DP and, and that
exact situation, where they werehistorically, lots of things
that just happened because theyhappened. And, and those things
(05:41):
were ingrained in us, across thestaff and across the community.
And the why was challenged on anumber of times, and even just
things like, we had an assemblyon a Friday, and that was cast
(06:03):
off as sort of extra releasetime for teachers, right. And,
and the wife or the wife, wifeof the teachers was that it
meant that the SLT took the theassembly, and the teachers got
to go back to the classes andget things done. Yeah. And then
you principal decided that thatall the prints all the all the
(06:25):
teachers needed to be there atthe at the assembly and the and
so the y's clashed for a momentthere. But then, as time went
on, it was actually really endedup being a really integral,
important part of the week,because we all got to be
together, and we would sell uscelebrate success or celebrate
things that were happening inthe class in the school. But
yeah, initially, the y's clashedquite a bit. But then as soon as
(06:48):
I think that the biggest thingabout it, the biggest learning
from it was really getting thatclear. Understanding and, and
getting all key stakeholdersinvolved in developing that,
that central why that core, thatcore reasoning behind
everything,
Mark Herring (07:08):
because otherwise,
if you don't address that issue,
then it just becomes about theother things, you know, and the
you end up kind of having thistussle and back and forth. And
if I had gone back and haveanother go at that experience, I
may have done the same thing.
But if I had, I might have madethe same decision. But if I had
been able to understand whypeople were having that
(07:30):
pushback, then it could havebeen different, you know, we
could have actually understoodeach other and maybe I may have,
if I had understood what thecommunity's Why was, then I may
have understood that and maybe adepth of what I was doing. I
think the key thing is to makesure that everybody's on the
same page. And as leaders, youknow, if you're in a school, if
you're a teacher in a school,understanding the principles
vision is important in theleadership's vision. But
(07:53):
understanding the why is superimportant too, because you can
either match to that and youwill understand why decisions
are made. Or you can findanother school that maybe
matches your why and fits withyour values as well. But I just
wanted to give quick, some quicklittle three things, why I think
the why is really important. Andthe distinction between that why
and the vision just reallybriefly, and again, you can go
(08:14):
to my Instagram clip, if youhave a graphic and just another
shameless plug, there'll be alink, there'll be a link in the
show notes. So the first one, sohere are the three reasons why
we need to plug into our why anddig deeper. So number one, why
gives you a fuel over the longterm, you know, so. But it
doesn't just give you the fuelfor the long term, it actually
(08:35):
gives you a feel for today. Sovision is very much a future
thing. It's something that we'reworking towards, you know, this
is what we want our school tolook like this is how we want
our students to operate andlearn. And this is where we're
moving to, whereas a why helpsyou get up in the morning. So
when you're feeling a little bitdown, or a little bit circle,
this thing's not going quiteright in your personal life. You
understand the the dedicationand the commitment that you've
(08:57):
got to the school. This is whatwe're all on. And it gels people
together right now. So whenwe've got a staff meeting,
everybody's bought in, becausethis is why this is what we're
about. And there are a couple ofschools that I am thinking of
immediately who I know thateverybody is there for a
specific reason. The wires onthe wall, the wires talked about
at staff meetings, the wiresbrought up all the time. So
(09:18):
that's really important living
Bex Rose (09:20):
and breathing.
Mark Herring (09:22):
Yeah, 100%. Number
two, a wire is important because
it will evolve over time.
Whereas a vision sometimes canbe something that you're going
to, and it's a direction thatyou talk about and it is
important, but it tends to bereasonably fixed. It's like this
is where we're going whereas theY can adapt and change and
evolve. And it leads to numberthree as well because of why can
(09:43):
adapt across contexts. What Ilove about Simon in Simon Sinek
I don't know if I mentioned himhe's really popularized the
Golden Circle and the importanceof the why his name will always
be linked probably forever. Mr.
cynic, I call him with the whyapproach. But what I love about
my wife particularly is that Ican relate it to my personal
(10:05):
life, it can relate to myprofessional life. And it can
also relate to even my, mymarriage or the way that I
connect with family. So, thereare things that I can do with
that, why that will be crosscontextualized. That's not a
word. But you know what I mean?
Like it can go, it doesn't haveto just be in one particular
area. And then the last one,they talk about vision, taking
(10:27):
at least, you know, 18, or 20, Iforget the number, I'm terrible
with numbers. But it takesmultiple times to be able to
articulate and catch a visionfrom someone, you have to keep
coming back to it over and overagain, and keep articulating it.
Whereas a why, if I share my Ywith someone, they kind of get
it straight away. So I'll giveyou a quick example, my personal
wide that I've developed andjust come to come to terms with
(10:49):
and have as a real motivatingfactor is around investing and
people everything that I do,whether I'm with my kids, you
know, now at a picnic, or we'rehaving dinner, don't get this
right all the time. And I'm notperfect, but everything that I
do on this podcast, you know,things that we do in our
company, when we're working withschools, it's about investing in
(11:09):
people. And so when I when Italk about that with people, you
can kind of catch it, you kindof understand my motivation. And
you know, there's like a anunderstanding there, that
catches pretty quick. So I don'tknow if you've got anything. Is
there anything else that peoplecan do? What are your thoughts
about what people could do thatto discover what there was?
Bex Rose (11:29):
I think yeah, I think
it does take time and and when
you said your why, Mark, I gothat's 100% you like that's,
that's that's you absolutely toa tee. And I think it does
evolve and change over time.
What it refines over time. Ithink you kind of realize that
you're you're on this planet fora reason. And this is your why
behind it. I don't even thinkI've really 100% developed mine
(11:54):
to be honest, personally, Mark,but in terms of professionally,
having the why made decisionmaking so much easier. And the
ECL T space because you getthrown so many opportunities all
the time from different places,places, people, things,
opportunities, just get thrownin your desk all the time. And I
(12:17):
made the mistake when I firststarted and teach and SLT was
saying Yes, that sounds cool.
Cool. That sounds cool. Thatsounds cool. That sounds cool.
And you end up getting thisabsolutely over crammed
calendar. But as soon as youthen pull it back and you go,
actually this is our y, doesthis, is this going to
(12:37):
contribute? Is it going toenhance? Is it going to help to
support that Y? Yeah, or is itgoing to just overcrowd it and
just you know, not really kindof go on that same trajectory.
And so as soon as you startdoing that you get real
traction, and formulating ormaking sure that that y become
is alive and kicking.
Mark Herring (12:58):
Yeah, 100 of what
we talked about vision acting as
a guardrail, you know, to allthe decisions that you have to
make and, and then thatleadership space, I think the
why does that as well. You know,so like you say, you've got a
lot of opportunities to do a lotof things. And I think schools
fall into that trap, they'redoing so many things, because
they see there's value in that.
But if they're able to sit downand like you say, examine the
values, what are our principles?
(13:20):
What are we actually trying toachieve? Where are we thinking
on, on our motivations? If theif you can articulate that and
figure out what it is you'retrying to do, then I think you
can make decisions, does thishelp us do this? Does this help
us do that? That's reallyimportant. And I think I was
gonna add another fourth onethere. I think understanding
(13:40):
that why helps you continuegoing in the long term. Because
I think for a lot of people,sometimes their Why is to reach
a certain position, or toachieve a certain thing. And
then you know, so like, I think,through my teaching career, I
started to develop a bit of anaspiration to want to be a
principal, you know, like a lotof a lot of teachers that are
kind of working through, they'relooking at their classroom
(14:02):
practice, and they're thinking,well, I want to move into the
leadership space. So then, ifyour why. So if my wife was to
become a principal one day, whatare you going to do when you get
there?
Bex Rose (14:11):
Yeah, what happens?
Mark Herring (14:12):
You become a
principal, you sitting on the
desk, and you kind of like thedoor shut behind you. And then
you're like, Oh, what am I gonnado now? You see it all the time
with sports, with sportsplayers, you know, in
professional sports people,they, if they're wires, you
know, the admiration. You know,being in the All Blacks or
winning a World Cup, often youhear about this huge plummet
(14:32):
that they have afterwardsbecause they're why has gone
because they've had to retire orthey didn't, you know, you see
all sorts of examples in thesporting world of people not
achieving that goal. And if theydon't achieve that goal, then
their life is over. But if thewhy is if they examine their
why, and understand that it'ssomething bigger than that, and
(14:53):
there is something that has amotivating purpose behind you,
whether it's you know,supporting my family or building
a foundation for my futuregenerations or You know, all of
those big aspirational thingsthat people have? I think that
can really go a long way. Sowhat's for people to think
about? You know, when you'reyou're walking your dog or
driving your car, it'd be reallyinteresting thing for people to
(15:13):
think what what is theirschools? Why do we have a why is
that something that we'vediscussed and talked about? Is
this, is there an opportunityfor us to do that. But I think
on a personal level, I'd reallyencourage you, if you're in a
teaching role, if you're in aleadership role, if you're
working in the classroom,understanding what that wire is,
it's going to be superimportant.
Bex Rose (15:31):
Yeah. Thanks for that.
Mark Herring (15:35):
All right, our
guest on the show today is a
very exciting guest as our firstperson outside of UTV so it's
great to have you on the call.
I'm kinda I just got a littlebit of a bio that I'll use to
run through. And you can sortof, you can give me some
feedback on this bio, becausethis came straight from
LinkedIn. So I don't know howthis is going to roll. But
anyway, Connor is a learningdelivery specialist, currently
the education success managerfor Microsoft, New Zealand. And
(15:58):
I know that that's a role thatyou've just started last year.
Your background. Connorsbackground is five years as a
teacher at Northcoteintermediate, and Auckland, and
two years at Northcote primaryschool and in Auckland as well
in New Zealand. And this isinteresting, LinkedIn comes up
with three people who are yourinterests, so I wonder if you
could have a quick little guesswho they might be? Anyway,
(16:18):
obviously, with Microsoft,you've got Bill Gates as the
first one. You've got SatyaNadella and third one drumroll
just send her idea. And sothat's exciting for you. Free, I
wonder what that says about yourpersonality, your professional
aspirations. Obviously, there issome CEO of a major corporation
and the Prime Minister of afuture nation in your in your
(16:40):
future. So it's awesome to haveyou on the call Connor, we're
really excited to talk to youparticularly today, around the
eSports environment that you'vegot the experience that you've
got and what you're doing andyour background and how you got
involved in that. Because for alot of teachers in classrooms,
one of the huge challenges thatteachers have got at the moment
is around engagement, no matterwhat age your students are.
(17:01):
We're really struggling in theclassroom to get engaged get
attendance as one thing I knowin New Zealand, particularly
getting students to theclassroom is a real challenge
after the lock downs and COVIDand the patterns of behavior.
But then how do you engage themwhen you've got them in the room
as well. So no matter where youare in the world, that's an
issue. And I'm interested to seewhat kind of role eSports could
(17:24):
play in that. But did you justwant to give us a background
kind of catch up and how you gotto where you are now with
Microsoft and how that led toyour involvement with eSports?
Connor McHoull (17:35):
Yeah, cool.
Chiara. Firstly, thank you forhaving me. As part of this, this
podcast, super exciting to bethe first external guest outside
of out of UTB. So huge honor.
Mark Herring (17:49):
Number One On The
List. You were like, right at
the number one, we've got lessthan 100. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Connor McHoull (17:55):
All right, high
expectations. I think, you know,
engagement in schools is such ahuge thing, right. And I think
reflecting on my time back inthe classroom, I always
prioritized engagement, right?
In terms of if you can get astudent wanting to come to
(18:16):
school, and excited to come toschool. That's, that's the
biggest part of the battle,right? If you can, if you can,
if you can achieve that. Thelearning is going to flow
naturally. But if you'reconstantly battling that
engagement, you're going to bebattling the learning, and
you're going to be battling, youknow, for the remainder of the
year. And I think, I think Irelate to that, because I was
(18:38):
that kid at school, I reallystruggled with engagement. And I
really struggled with school. Tothe point where I didn't finish
high school, I left I droppedout of high school at football.
Oh, wow. Yeah. And I reallystruggled because I didn't have
the things that I was engaged inthe things that I really enjoyed
(18:59):
doing. And at that time, it wastinkering. It was taking things
apart, it was exploring, it wasbeing hands on and being
curious, and everything thatwould relate to what we would
probably classify as STEMlearning now, right? And a huge,
huge part of that. And myinterest and engagement was
gaming was was being involved inthat in that side of technology
(19:22):
as well. And so growing up I wasI was always really passionate
about computers, technologygaming. And that was always a
huge driving force of what I didin the background and behind the
scenes. And so yeah, when I leftschool, I went into the I went
straight into an automotivetrade worked really well for me
(19:44):
as I came out of school,tinkering hands on, you know,
learning and being engaged andcurious. And then, as a little
bit older, I had a pivotal pointin my life where I wanted to do
a little bit more than that andI wanted to get involved in a
little bit more and I wanted tobe giving back and helping
others. And so I made thetransition to teaching. And so I
(20:07):
went and studied to become ateacher. And funnily enough, you
mentioned my two last places ofemployment as a teacher,
Northcote intermediate andNorthcote primary. While I was
studying to be a teacher, I alsoworked at the Northcote tavern.
Mark Herring (20:25):
On your LinkedIn,
Connor McHoull (20:28):
I was very, I
was really engaged in sort of,
ingrained in their Northcotecommunity, I saw a lot of future
parents, in many states, codeseven, which, which might have
helped me when I startedteaching there. So yeah, I
continued, while I was training,to be a teacher, with my
(20:49):
passions, which was was gainingtechnology. And in the
background, I was always doingthings online. You know, I was
always staying up to date withthe latest technology and just
really curious about that site.
And then yeah, when I made itinto the classroom, that's when
I really started to put mypassions with, with my
professional practice. And so Istarted to really integrate
(21:10):
technology into the classroom.
And so from from early on, I wasI was really, I guess,
understanding of these kids whowanted more than what the
current curriculum was, wasoffering. And, you know, it was
still kind of early days around,especially esport, back then,
(21:32):
when I originally startedteaching, but I really saw a
shift and students craving for alittle bit more, you know, in
the classroom. And so, overtime, I started to integrate
that technology, I startedlooking at ways to use that as a
(21:52):
tool in the classroom.
Initially, it was, you know,looking at ways to provide a
reward for students forcompleting, you know, like a
writing piece or a readingpiece. And then hey, now you can
spend some time and go and dosomething on the computer, play
a game or do something. But asit evolved, it really changed
from a reward piece to a reallyessential component of classroom
(22:16):
gamified learning and providinga platform for students to align
their interests with this newexciting thing. You know, and it
was really quickly becoming acareer opportunity, which, you
know, is quite a bizarre thingto think that now these students
can can progress through theclassroom and have this, this
(22:38):
pathway in front of them wherethey can follow their passions
through gaming and coding andeSports. And that's a viable,
profitable career path. And soas I continued teaching, and it
became a little bit more common,a little bit more understood and
a little bit more frequent inthe classroom, I really started
(22:58):
opening up what I could do withwith a sport. And so when I made
it to North, her intermediate, Itook over the digital
technology, space, so I was ageneral classroom teacher, but I
also oversaw the digitalcurriculum, the digital
technology, the digitalextension program, and I ran a
specialist group, as well, withwith a selected group of
(23:22):
students to really help drivetechnology in our school. And
time and time again, afterasking students what they
wanted, what what would theywant to see more of in the
school? Quite often, it cameback to esport gaming and those
opportunities. And so that'sexactly what I did. I built out
(23:42):
a school Esports tournament thatgrew into a, a, that esport
cluster group. So I startedgetting schools from all across
Tamaki Makoto to come to ourschool and we hosted a an esport
gaming event. We got up to 13schools out, we hosted we had
students playing, we hadmultiple teams, I had students
(24:07):
doing, broadcasting studentsdoing, you know, the Twitch
streaming, commentating,filming, you know, learning how
to do all the graphics overlayson stream labs. And I think, for
me, as an educator, that's themost exciting part is that there
are so many different layers tothis, this technology in the
(24:29):
classroom. It's not just aboutplaying games anymore. You know,
it really opens the door to somany different career paths. And
you can engage so many studentsand in such a wide variety, you
know, like I said, you've gotthe streaming, you got all the
technical aspects with with thatgo with understanding all the
camera equipment. You got theteamwork, the collaboration,
(24:49):
it's a huge, it's a huge piece.
And so that was that wassomething I was hugely
passionate about. And so I isuccessfully set up a couple of
those eSports tournaments. Andthen I started to, I guess, work
with other educators whoattended these events and wanted
to replicate similar events attheir schools. So then I started
(25:12):
providing, I guess, guidance andsupport to other teachers to run
their own. And then as ateacher, I took students out to
attend these other events thatother teachers were putting
together. And then, I guess,through through that, I had this
opportunity to come and workwith Microsoft. And it's not
(25:34):
necessarily esport focused therole that I do, but that's a big
part of my role here withMicrosoft is working with
schools, and teachers to helpunderstand how eSports and all
of these new digital tools workin the classroom and Minecraft
being one of the biggestMicrosoft's products, teachers
(25:55):
are really craving that and, youknow, that's, that's where I'm
able to come in and provide somesupport and assistance on, you
know, what does this look likein the classroom? How can I
leverage this to support mystudents? And where can I take
it? What can I do further thanjust playing games? So yeah, a
whole range of things.
Mark Herring (26:14):
Yeah, it's
amazing. And I know bits that we
really want to give people somesome hard, you know, Visa, some
things that you can go away anddo. And some int x entry points
really into eSports, for thisfor the classrooms. But I just
want to kind of wrestle withthat idea at the moment that a
lot of people have, that esportsis or gaming is not really
something that's that has aplace in education, and it's
(26:37):
something that kids do when theygo home, or students do when
they go home. Because they knowthat if you're into it, chances
are you've got nine or 10colleagues around you who think
that you're completely wastingthe the student's time. And, you
know, it's just, I liked thatanalogy, or the story you told
where you said you went to thestudents and ask them what they
wanted. Some sometimes when youencourage teachers to do that,
(26:58):
they think you're Yeah, ofcourse, they'd say that because
if I said to them, what wouldyou want? They'd say, oh, yeah,
we just want to have pizza allday. And, you know, we weren't
like five hour lunchtimes, youknow, but, but like you said,
for a lot of students, gettinginvolved in gaming and eSports
in school does lead to futurecareers. And we all know that
person like my cousin that Ilived with in the 90s, who
(27:18):
started out, he had the originalPlayStation when I flirted with
him at one stage. And then hethen he took that to actually
start working for a company thatwere designing PlayStation
games. And then he went on andworked for Trade Me, which
outside of New Zealand is sortof like our re, you know,
approach. So like, it justblossomed, and brands from
(27:39):
there. Do you see? Do you seethat kind of pushback from
teachers? And when you hear thatpushback, what's your immediate
go to? kind of answer for peoplewho say it's a waste of time?
Connor McHoull (27:51):
You know, funny,
you should mention that I think
teachers teaching and schoolsare a really interesting place,
right? Yeah, you got you gotteachers who are really on the
forefront of digital growth. Andthen you've got, you know, maybe
some teachers who are a littlebit resistant to change, and
maybe struggle withunderstanding how some of these
new tools, support and encouragegrowth. And so there is a lot of
(28:15):
there is a lot of pushback andsome instances when it comes to
esport. And you know, I'vepersonally seen that I've set up
and gone to promote eSportsevents, like I spoke around, and
I've had schools flat out emailreply and say, No, we won't be
attending because we don't seehow this relates to education or
will benefit Wow, students,right. And, as someone who has
(28:39):
been seen the impact that thishas had positively, you know,
firsthand, it's quite a, it'squite an interesting thing to
see. You know, I guess, aseducators, what we what we want
is to be looking at all of theways that we can support
students and all of the waysthat we can foster growth,
(29:02):
whether it's, you know, throughdevelopments, and writing and
understanding a new tool thatsupports, you know, reading
fluency, as well as our creativefluency in terms of digital
transformation in gaming, andhow all of that can open up so
many different career pathways.
You know, and I'd like to thinkthat educators are taking every
(29:22):
opportunity to try and providethose outcomes for students, I
think, I think my biggest thingwhen I do try and counter that
with, with teachers, or anyonewho kind of says, well, gaming
is just gaming, it's one ofthose, it's this, you know,
solitary environment of a childsitting in their dark bedroom,
you know, playing games and notsocializing. And you know, that
(29:46):
maybe that's what the stereotypemight have been in the past.
And, you know, don't get mewrong, there is still that
element of it. But when we'retalking about getting in the
classroom, or eSports in theclassroom, so more broadly Les,
I think it's important to notethat we're talking around
collaborative games, we'retalking around a sport that is
driving to promote those, thosesoft skills and students, right,
(30:11):
that communication, thatcollaboration, the, you know,
empathy, and all of those skillsthat go with it. And the
learning that comes with it,right? Not this solitary, dark
room gaming stereotype. And so,I always try and challenge that,
you know, you look at some ofthe eSports events that are
(30:32):
happening all around the world,you know, we just had the, the
world, world esport tournaments,end of last year, take place in
Bali. And we had somerepresentatives from New
Zealand, go and attend. And thisis, you know, 90% of it is team
based sports. So you got FIFA,you know, you got the football,
(30:54):
you've got Rocket League, whichis, you know, the car based
soccer game, which is all teamcollaborative sports. You know,
you've got the you've got thecommunication and the teamwork
and the strategies andeverything that goes with it. So
yeah, I always try and tie itback to that.
Mark Herring (31:12):
So it's not like
to street fighters, like when I
was at the spaces machine. Likethat was what it was, it was two
street fighters fighting eachother. That's very eSports that
you've got, you know, thatcollaborative nature goes on
because you've got team againstTeam, isn't it? And I've been in
rooms where these things havebeen held and the noise and the
talking between people. It'sjust next level, isn't it? Have
you seen that BEX with you? Iknow you've got kids. Yeah, we
(31:34):
never mind that noise just goesthrough the roof, doesn't it?
Bex Rose (31:37):
Absolutely. And I'm
just thinking, you know, in my
experience, I've kind of got twohats here, because I've gotten
my my classroom in the school.
And then I've also got my sonwho's very much into it. And,
and to engage him in learningthrough eSports, or through
Minecraft, or through somethinglike that. That's when you start
actually seeing some traction.
And there's learning becauseit's authentic, it's relevant,
(31:59):
it's in context that heunderstands, you know, like,
it's just been a game changerfor my son in particular, and
then also with kids that havebeen hard to engage those
typical, you know, I always Ialways come back to those those
years, six boys that are justnot keen on learning that or
learning collaboration, theydon't want to play team, you
know, those kind of games in theclassroom, but then as soon as
(32:22):
you bring the esport elementwill soon as you bring some sort
of gamification, the engagementis just phenomenal. So yeah, I
just love hearing, I lovedhearing your journey to Conor
around that you were also inthat same, that same space as a
student as well. So, yeah, it'sbeen really interesting to hear.
Connor McHoull (32:41):
I definitely
think that that the engagement
is, and I touched on it at thestart, I think the engagement is
such a huge piece that can't beunderstated, right, if you have
those years, six boys who aredisengaged, and you know, we
pigeonhole the six boys, but Ithink, you know, even girls
promoting girls and esport is ahuge area, which we're doing a
(33:02):
lot of work in. And I say we, Imean, education as a whole,
right? But I think if you if youlook at those disengaged
students, we as educators shouldbe doing everything we can
within our toolkits to try andfind ways to get them engaged,
find an area where they arepassionate, and find ways to
(33:23):
support them and turn that intoa potential pathway. You know, I
never would have thought that Iwould get to where I am and have
this opportunity work withMicrosoft. And if I, if I peel
back the layers, it all kind ofstems from my passion and my,
my, my gaming, right, it's whereit all sort of grew from, and,
(33:47):
you know, a lot of the studentsthat I have worked with, and
I've seen, you ask them whatthey want to be and now like I
said, they can say that theywant to be a professional
streamer or a professional gameror a shoutcaster or whatever.
You know, so we should befinding ways to engage them in
that and, you know, part of alsoaside from the role that I have
(34:12):
at Microsoft, one of the otherelements that I'm involved in is
a chair, the New Zealand esportFederation's education
subcommittee. So, New Zealandesport Federation is it's been
sanctioned under New Zealandsport. So it's a it's a
officially an officialrecognized entity. And then
under that, under the NewZealand esport Federation,
(34:34):
there's different subcommittees,and we're engaged and aligned
and supporting specific areas.
So we have woman and eSports wehave indigenous and eSports,
education and eSports and that'sthe one that I look after. And
so within that education, andeSports I have a team of nine
people that I work with, who areall teachers, who have all been
(34:55):
involved in education in one wayor another And our goal,
essentially is to provideframework resources, starting
points entry points into esport.
For for teachers across thecountry. And that's, that's a
relatively new thing. So we kindof brought that to fruition
(35:17):
needs to end of last year. And,you know, we're working away to
really centralize a hub wherewhere people can come and get
that support if esport issomething that they wanted to
pursue in the classroom. Some ofthe people in the in the teamer
X professional, esport players,as well as, you know, teachers
(35:38):
like myself, so we've got areally well rounded structure to
provide that support. So, youknow, something that I'm really
passionate about?
Bex Rose (35:45):
Yeah. So you mentioned
you've got this team of people,
but how would the average Joeteacher go, they listening to
you and going, I've got a bunchof kids, or I've got kids that
would really love this, how dowe get started? How do we get
into this?
Connor McHoull (35:59):
You know,
there's, there's so many,
there's so many articles, and somuch research, and there's a lot
of different entry points. Sothat's a great question. I
guess, speaking with myMicrosoft hat on one element
that I would highly recommend,and, you know, we have our
Microsoft learn portal, sothat's Microsoft learn, you can
(36:22):
just search that. And thenwithin the Microsoft learn
portal, that's the that's likethe one stop shop for all
Microsoft, learning thatteachers or anyone can take on
professional development, createa profile, earn badges, and
build out their professionallearning. But within that
(36:42):
there's a subset of educationspecific learning pathways and
modules. And then within there,it breaks it down even further,
you've got STEM learning, you'vegot, you know, teams learning,
but then there's a wholesession, sorry, a whole segment
of Minecraft. And Minecraftbeing a really great tool that,
(37:03):
you know, so many students arealready using and successfully
in the classroom. And thenwithin there, there's a whole
unit on what's called the theMinecraft teacher eSports
Academy. And so that that mod,that module is designed to step
teachers through the wholeprocess of starting esport in
(37:25):
high school, what this lookslike, you know, small steps,
building up an esport team or agroup of students to help with
that, and then providing theframework with a Minecraft
approach on how you could buildthat out across your school. So
within that Microsoft learnportal, there's there's two
elements is that the TeacherAcademy, and then there's also a
(37:47):
student Academy as well. So youcan really break it off into two
different pathways, you cansupport teachers, and you can
also develop studentscapabilities within esport as
well, teaching them aroundcollaboration and teamwork, and,
you know, working with peers andstuff, so I would probably draw
on those two resources. Andthere's a whole bunch of other
(38:11):
Minecraft tutorials in there aswell on how to get set up and
the different types of esportgames within Minecraft because,
you know, when you talk esportbroadly, what what's hard to
recognize is that there aredifferent within within
Minecraft, there are differentobjectives, you know, different
(38:31):
game criterias, or differentgame outcomes. So, you know, you
might have a build challengewhere you tasked students to
work in groups of five to raceagainst the clock and build a
specific object withinMinecraft. And then you might
have a rubric where they can,you know, they have to achieve
certain things. So that's abuild challenge, then you might
have like a creative code clashchallenge where students go in
(38:56):
and have to collect nectar andbring it back to the beehive
and, you know, do all thesedifferent other sporting
challenges. So there's a wholerange of different activities
that teachers can go in andunderstand more about.
Mark Herring (39:08):
And since I know
in Minecraft, so you can create
your own worlds with your ownchalkboards and you know,
different things that you cando. So I've heard of teachers
creating, or having studentscreate their own challenges, so
students have to go in andcompete within their world. So
that's fantastic. A greatresource for people to be able
to go and plug into and a reallygood entry point to the whole
(39:28):
world of Esports. So we'll putsome links on the in the show
notes box, and we'll have somethings that people can go to, to
be able to get started. Butfantastic to start that journey.
And I think it's one of thethings that you know, at the
beginning of the year, a schoolyear in the southern hemisphere,
and you know, you're lookingtowards the summer in the
Northern Hemisphere, you'rewanting to try and keep kids
engaged and, and keep thingssort of ticking over. I think
(39:50):
there's some fantastic ideasthere to unpack. So thanks so
much for kind of for jumping on.
And we'll also you know, have ahave a connection for people to
reach out to you if you're Aforeign New Zealand tone and
make some some connection withyou through soundtrack.
Connor McHoull (40:05):
And yeah, thank
you so much for having me. I am
more than happy to answer anyquestions if anyone has, you
know, any any specific esport orMinecraft related questions,
more than happy to providesupport. I've been working with
some people over in thePhilippines and working with
teachers in Hong Kong and otherparts of the world. Who
(40:28):
interesting got in touch withwith specific esport questions.
So yeah, I love it. If I canhelp in any way, shout out.
Thank you for having me.
Mark Herring (40:35):
Awesome. Thanks.
Bex Rose (40:37):
thanks, Connor.
Mark Herring (40:41):
All right, well,
this is the good to know
segment. And we've got Adrian,one of our trainers in
Australia, I actually, I thinkyour claim to fame is the
longest running member of theteam. So Adrian, I'll let you
talk about that in a second. Butyou're gonna talk to us about
chat GPT. And one of theexciting things about this is
it's a relatively new tool inthe education space. And we just
want to have an awesome littleconversation with you around
(41:02):
some of the research you've doneabout the opportunities, because
I know that for a lot ofteachers, there is a lot of
concern, a lot of fear aboutassessment and lots of things
like that. So looking forward tofinding out about some things
about it from you. But do youjust want to explain for people
who have might not have anawareness of what it is and how
it works? We could start fromthere.
Adrian Francis (41:20):
Surely out? Yes,
I will. That's a good place to
start. So chat DBT has been outfor a kind of hit the social
media around Christmas timeissue last year, so 2022 and
started getting a bit moretraction. And you might have
seen some stuff online lookingat people that are creating
artwork done by AI or artificialintelligence. So check GBT is
(41:41):
the chat version of that whereyou can actually open up a
browser, search for chat GPT youhave to sign in. And then once
you're signed in, there's like alittle bar at the bottom of the
window. And when you just typein a question, it will fire back
and answer for you. Now, it'snot a Google search. It's
slightly different from thatbecause we are used to doing a
Google search and looking forhow to bake a cake and up comes
(42:03):
15 websites and we pick what wewant. Now this is using a neural
network, which basically is anAI system in the background,
which is a deep learningarchitecture, this is kind of
nerdy for you that will thenlearn and process language and
then find the answers andsolutions for readily published
are from read only publishedarticles or information. So what
(42:25):
it's actually kind of doing thisis Adrian's version trying to
explain it to his mom, you ask aquestion, and then goes and
interprets that question. Itthen goes and scrapes
information off the internetwhere it can get things from. So
it could be articles, it couldbe newspapers, it could be
videos, whatever. If then we'llhave a response and come back to
you. It gets better as it goesalong. And it's very
(42:46):
conversational. Unlike a Googlesearch or any other search
engine, where you just put in aquestion, it gives you one
answer. This is like you canhave a conversation with it. It
also learns as you go through soas it gets better, it's learning
that how to recover respond toyou, and also how to interpret
what you're writing. So it'sactually quite a fun thing to
(43:08):
play with as well, it's quite,you can actually ask her a
question about how's your daybeen those kinds of things that
will actually come back for ananswer. And just be aware that
it is refining itself, it's verymuch in its infancy, they would
have done some beta testingbefore they went live. But this
is still kind of in beta anyway.
But it's quite a nice tool tohave. So it's
Mark Herring (43:27):
just kind of like
a glimpse into the future of
where things are going and whatand what what's going to develop
further down the track, I hearda great example where they said
that once once it does getconnected to the internet, it
will be able to, you know, dothings like putting together a
schedule for you. So I saw oneperson say, you could say to it,
I'm in Paris, on these dates,I'd like to see some amazing
(43:48):
restaurants, go to some theatersand see some of the local sites,
Could you arrange a three dayitinerary for me, and it will
map all of that for you and putit a bullet pointed itinerary of
where you're going to go andwhat you're going to do and
where you going to stay. Nowthat's slightly more advanced,
isn't it than a Google search?
And when it gets connected tothe internet, it's going to go
for that. But at the moment, myunderstanding is that what most
people are using it for iscontent creation, developing
ideas, you know, that whole textbased approach is that kind of
(44:13):
how most people are using it atthe moment.
Adrian Francis (44:17):
That's what I'm
saying. It's what I've played
with. But I think that it wouldjust be the tip of the iceberg
because that's kind of the realmthat we're playing in. We're all
ex teachers, we know aboutcreating content. And we kind of
think, well, we can use this tokind of use that bit. But I've
had friends of mine and get itto write stories with slight
pathos in it and it will or witha slightly I write a story in
the same kind of style. But thatsounds so weird, right? And it
(44:39):
will write it for you. It'squite a bizarre type of thing. I
think it's bigger than what wekind of using at the moment and
the education space. It's got afew people spooked.
Mark Herring (44:48):
Yeah. Do you want
to tell us why? Why do you think
teachers are so concerned?
Adrian Francis (44:53):
The big I think
the big thing is this is just me
with my head on is that we arevery used to doing things
exactly the same way. The way wealways have. So we all went to
school, normally we did, becausethat's what you do you go to
school, and then most peopledon't go to university. And then
they go back to school again. Soall they've really known for
their entire life is that modeof school, you learn something,
(45:14):
you learn something from Mondayto Thursday, and on Friday, you
get a test on Monday, you get itback again. And then away, you
go again. So it's that kind ofcycle. So we've, we've grown up
in there, and that's how we'velearned, then we go to
university that's reinforced aswell. And to make it even more
complex, or the parents of thekids that we teach, have the
same experience, or our parentshave the same experience, it
goes back and back and back. Sowhen you want to change or
(45:34):
adjust something, people startgetting spooked. And there's two
reactions, one, you could go,this is fantastic. Let's embrace
this and run with it. Or oh, mygoodness, let's lock this down.
Because I don't want anyone tobe able to see it. So that then
creates that kind of tension inyour staff and in the school and
in education about where are yougoing to use this kind of tool.
And if you kind of take a stepback to COVID, when COVID hit,
(45:55):
how the heck are we going tomanage we're gonna have to go
online. And surprisingly, we didflick online. And we did teach.
And we did actually do somestuff really well on mine, we
learned a stack. And now thatwe're back, we've kind of got
that ability to pull out ourhybrid learning model quite
easily out of our backpack, wewere forced to do it. But now if
you look at most schools, 90% ofthem are back to what they were
doing before. So they've kind ofdropped the opportunity to use
(46:18):
that changing kind ofcircumstance or changing
technology to enhance learningfor students, they've gone back
to what they're now doingbefore. So check GBT is the
same, because what happens iswith this, if you want students
to write an essay about a war inthe 18th century, they could say
write me a 500 word essayunrolling drone, sensory,
essentially, and reference thatfor me, please. And we'll do it.
(46:40):
Now it does it, it loses thathuman voice. So it's not quite
there yet, but it's gettingpretty close. So that means,
Bex Rose (46:48):
Adrian. Yeah, I have
seen you can refine the voice
that comes. So you can saywhether you want it to sound
professional, or if you want tosound casual. I've seen a few
applications of it withineducation framework, what are
some ways that you have seen it?
Or what are some ways you'vebeen dabbling with it that we
could have some practicalapplications in the classroom.
(47:11):
So that
Mark Herring (47:13):
doesn't mean you
could say make it sound like a
15 year old student.
Adrian Francis (47:19):
We could give it
a crack and see, but I think
probably for a teacher, what itmeans is, so thanks, I'll look
back to yours in just a smidge.
I did an example of a schoolthat I was working in last year,
and I got six people to open upasking exactly the same
question. And they got sixdifferent responses, which means
that you can't put it through aplagiarism checker because it's,
it's unique every time youcreate. And you're not going to
pick it up. Because that's whatteachers normally do, I'll put
(47:42):
it to a plagiarism checker. Ifthey cheat, then we can pick
them up. One teacher respondedto what we now need to teach his
process. We need to know ourkids and have that drafting
process done really well. Weneed to teach problem solving.
And we need to teach wisdom, notcontent. And I thought that was
pretty cool. That was a reallynice summary of what we need to
do in education. Now the thepain point is that we still are
(48:03):
governed by exams at the end orsome sort of assessment, and
that needs to get that tick. Sothey can move on somewhere else.
So we kind of got that paradigmring. But where would I use it
as a teacher? Well, first thing,creating lesson plans is the big
thing. So you've got a greatlesson plan on something you're
not quite sure about it, you'vegot some idea about the content,
but just get it to build ourlesson plan for your 45 minute
(48:24):
lesson plan on algebra, teachingthese key concepts, link it to
the Australian standard or NewZealand standards, and it will
do it for you bang, youfinished. Now you need to know
your stuff. Because otherwise,it's just going to spit
something out. And then when youstand in front of your kid,
you're going to pair upsomething here and you have no
idea about it. So never use atool like this, to do something
that you don't know aboutanyway, I've done some stuff
(48:44):
with coding, you know, writesome code for stuff. And 99% of
it was spot on one bit justdidn't work because of my
environment. And if I didn'tknow that, then I would have
been pulling my hair out. So youstill need to know what you're
doing to make it work. So that'slesson plans would be great,
because then once you link it tothe straight like for us, in
Australia, the AITSL standards,you can link it to all the
(49:05):
standards, you're done anddusted really good. So that's
and that's a lot of time forteachers, you know, and you can
even say do a five week unitplan on this break up activities
for every week, and it'll map itout for you. And then you can
adjust and move it. I've lookedat the timing of stuff when
they've done things like thatI've asked him to build out a
training course, and the timingsare out. But that's because I
(49:26):
know my stuff and then I can gothrough and change and modify
otherwise you're gonna get sunk.
The other one
Bex Rose (49:32):
most important thing
sorry, Adrian, I'm just gonna
jump in there that I thinkthat's really important to
emphasize is that it is notreplacing teachers, you still
need to know the content youstill need to make sure that
what you are presenting isaccurate but it takes that leg
workout right it takes all thatAdmony types, league work type
(49:53):
stuff out of it so you can focuson the most important thing
which is that connection withthe with the kids to pass on the
information or pass on the moon.
experiences right your
Adrian Francis (50:01):
100% picks.
That's exactly right. The otherthing that I'd use it for, so I
probably got three or four thatI use it for. The other thing
I'd use it for would be thatpersonalized learning that
differentiated learning, as wetalked about all the time, I'd
be great. We want todifferentiate the class. And all
we do is we take one questionoff of assignments to flick it
to the kid, so it's not reallydifferentiating versus kind of
reducing their workload. So whatyou could do is you can say,
(50:22):
Okay, guys, I'm thinking ofsomething like a food tech or a
week or food tech here, whichis, you know, home economics or
cooking in nutrition. You couldsay to the kids, like, these are
your 10 ingredients, you've gotan hour in our listened, you
need to come up with a recipethat uses those 10 and makes
these outcomes. Yeah, give thema rubric and stuff beforehand,
(50:43):
they could get into that intocheck JBJ saying blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah, want to do a45 minute lesson. But this needs
to cover these outcomes, I needto be able to be assessed
against this, give me 10questions at the end, I can
answer, it will then create alesson plan or a cooking program
that's personalized for thatkid. So if they want to do
chocolate cake, and they've gotthe right recipes, we'll do it.
If they want to do a spongecake, it will. So all those
(51:05):
kinds of things are there, theprocess will be different. The
content, like the materials, Ineed to do it, I still the same.
But every kid's got anindividual program they're
working on, they set that inwith their assignment, you're
done and dusted, then I thinkthat is just absolutely superb.
And as a teacher, when they handin, when they when you go and
assess it, they've got thelesson plan here, because the
kids made it, you've got therubric that you're marking
(51:26):
against. And every kid's gotownership of their learning,
rather than being told what todo. So I think that's a really
good way of doing it. And youcould apply that to multiple
subject areas as well, which Ithink is pretty, pretty good.
The other half of that is get acopy of each of the kids lesson
plans. And now you've got 30lesson plans ready to go
whenever you need to. So youmight be sick bank, flick that
out and turn it into a relieflesson done does, you have to do
(51:47):
anything else about it. So it'spretty cool. That's what I do.
The other one, or there'sprobably got two others I said
three alive. So two others one,writing emails to parents, and
things like that, you need toaddress an issue, and you need
to do it in a positive manner.
That is really hard. And for me,that takes a lot of time and
energy. But you can say write apositive email about Belinda,
(52:09):
who is late to class. And I'vejust noticed that a homeworks
not being done regularly, I'mconcerned about the people she's
hanging out with, I wonder howwe can work together to make
this better. So that you canjust type something like that,
it will then draft an email outfor you with that positive spin
on it, addressing the issuesthat you want to that you can
then change in doctor and makeappropriate, then you can use
for sending home to the parents,which is pretty cool. So that's
(52:30):
that one. So get out. The lastone is the bane if you ever talk
to teachers about what's theboundary life is it's always
reporting, it's always writingthat report at the end of the
term, those kinds of things, Iwould be using this to generate
some standard kind of responses,inputting someone's name,
putting some stuff about themarks, get a whole bank of
standard responses there. Andthen to see you can use them to
(52:52):
craft your own response whenyou're writing a report, I would
do that, because then you've gotthat ability. Now the probably
the downside of that is you'llend up with a great chunk of
comments that you can then comeback and get to at any time, but
then you've got a comment back,you're refining the way that you
write and the way that you canadd your voice to it. And at the
end of the day, you're going tohave a comment going to the
(53:12):
parents that's going to bemeaningful and helpful, and
doesn't eat all your time, whichI think is a really good thing.
So use it the same time, use itto make mental learning outcomes
for students, and you use it tolift that load off of you. When
you're doing some preparation.
That's what I've been doing. Sogood.
Mark Herring (53:27):
There's actually
two things that people can jump
into they're out there.
Bex Rose (53:31):
Absolutely. And I saw
some a cool way I the Facebook
group, the teacher Facebookgroup, and they are talking
about their welcome back toschool newsletter that they were
compiling for their for theirteachers are for the parents
that were coming in. And so Isuggested that and and yeah,
just takes the time you can youstill have the opportunity to
(53:51):
refine it and and give put yourflavor into it. But it just
gives you that skeleton thattakes so long and you go oh,
like, you know, trying to getback in the groove of things. So
yeah, just skeleton, you don'thave to, you don't have to copy
at one word word.
Adrian Francis (54:06):
I think that
gives you that structure, as we
said before you become aneditor. And it is sooner,
because sometimes you'll be ableto, you'll be able to go that's
not quite right. So really stuffthat's up to date, if you're
asked to do some politicalanalysis, and our analysis is
something that's just happened,it struggles a bit because
there's not enough stuff outthere for it be able to find
anything that's even reallytechnical and a specific thing
(54:28):
it'll do really well unless itcan't get access to journals
that are behind a firewall or apaywall, and that it can't grab
information to give you aresponse.
Mark Herring (54:35):
And that's at the
moment, but obviously that will
continue to grow as acquisitionshappen as more companies take on
and this is just the firstiteration that's been released
to the public. So I think it'sreally, really good opportunity
to get in there and have a go.
One of the things that I'venoticed is that when you're
talking to different teachers,so if you're a teacher and you
haven't experienced this, if youhaven't clicked on the link,
we'll put that in the show notesfor you to go and have a little
(54:56):
experiment. It really doeschange change your perception
once you've had a go solistening to it and hearing it,
you kind of don't quite get it,I think. But when you actually
put something in there that youregularly do, and then have that
come back to you, you know thatthat's just saved 30 to 45
minutes of your life, you know,and it just really does change
the whole way that you see thisand the potential. So hopefully,
(55:18):
some of the ideas that you'vegiven Adrian are going to help
some people that the move from alittle bit more, less of a
concern area into some more,sort of looking at opportunity.
So I think that's fantastic.
Thanks for sharing that. It'sawesome.
Adrian Francis (55:31):
No problem.
Thanks for having me. It's beengreat. Thanks, Adrian.
Mark Herring (55:37):
All right, so five
in the ken Beck's, what are your
thoughts?
Bex Rose (55:40):
Well, it was so great
to hear from Adrian about chat
GPT there's just so much tolearn here. But we do have a
dedicated chat GPT specialepisode to listen to. So just
pop back through the episodelist and you'll find it. I was
thinking I guess you could applythat ye piece you spoke about
making waves to develop how chatGPT could work in your school.
(56:02):
Something to think about they'rehearing Connors story about his
lack of engagement at school hasled him to the space where he
works in as a career is superinspiring is so great to hear
listened to so great. If soThanks, Mark.
Mark Herring (56:19):
That's totally My
pleasure. I love I think this is
this is one of those episodesthat you'll everybody will
probably know somebody thatwould get some value, whether
it's the chat GPT thing youmight be having conversations
with people who are a little bitnervous about how that's going
to impact on their classroom,and what are they going to do
about this mess of things comedown the track or, you know,
there's some teachers who couldreally do with some engagement
(56:41):
work with their students.
There's lots of reasons to sharethat. So that's one of the
things that will encourage allof you to do this little share
button, click that get the link,send it to anybody. We'd love
for as many people as possibleto find out what we're doing and
get some value from theseconversations. We've also got
some great links in the shownotes for you to explore this
week. So check that out. Go downinto the show notes. Click on
(57:01):
that the chat GPT one will bethere, especially in the
Minecraft. We're also postingevery week so make sure you
don't miss those by hitting thissubscribe button that's going to
make sure that you getnotifications and you find out
when we release those and theydrop. If you know somebody who
would get value, like I said,hit the share button and let
them know Lastly, if you havequestions or anything to share
with us, email us at team atusing technology better.com We'd
(57:24):
love to hear from you. See younext week. See ya