Episode Transcript
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Adrian Francis (00:00):
while we're
doing the Saturday Night Live,
(00:02):
or whatever show we're at themoment, the ethical side of it.
So you're getting responses thathave been written in a certain
way, especially when you have aconversation about what cultural
and ethical background has beenused to generate those
responses. And that'd be a greatthing for a philosophy class for
an ethical class at the highlevel in education, to kick
(00:23):
around who's making thesedecisions to give you those
responses?
Mark Herring (00:32):
Well, hey,
everybody, welcome to our
recorded conversation called GPTis Freaking Me Out: Teacher
Edition. Did you like that,everybody that was my little
title, we have got four of ourUTB team members on the call,
and we're exploring what chatGPTor the future of AI could mean
for us and education. Now, it'sworth mentioning that none of us
(00:52):
are AI experts. Definitely not.
But we're all experiencededucators and teachers, just
like most of you, and we'rereally interested today, to have
a look into what theopportunities could be for us in
our schools and classrooms. Andon the call, we've got Bex, Paul
and Adrian. Hey, everybody. Iwas just wondering, everybody,
if we could start with a quickexplanation of what GPT is. And
(01:13):
I know, Adrian, you've done alittle bit of research, and
you've actually got jet chatGPTto tell us what what it actually
is itself. So how about youstart with that give us a basic
layman's terms, remember, we'reall educators coming from a non
technical point of view?
Adrian Francis (01:30):
Yes, In a very,
very low level entry. So
basically, what ChatGPT is, it'sbeen around for maybe, maybe
five couple of months, and it'sjust gone live just before
Christmas. So people were kindof getting excited about it and
have now been jumping in. So youwant to send a pop up around
social media and things andthere's kind of this idea of Oh,
my goodness, what this is gonnado and disrupt where we're at.
(01:51):
So what actually is it it'sactually an AI model that takes
the text that you enter them hasa look at a whole lot of other
text that's got access toanalyzes what you ask them and
gives us a response. So it'sactually using computer it's
neuro neurological kind of nerdystuff in the backend to make
those answers come out to you.
It's not a search engine thatgoes and find something, it goes
and looks at everything has beenwritten that's out there
(02:13):
published publicly in the web,and then formulate some answer
based on the question that youasked it. So really, in simple
terms, it's a computer programthat can understand what you're
typing. And it can respond in atext like manner, like humans,
and analyzes a large amount oftext to be able to give you that
answer, and then generate thoseresponses. And as it goes, it
gets better and better becauseit learns what it's doing. And
(02:35):
behind it, not just the machinewas doing, it was engineers in
behind it that actually controlit, like not controlling it, but
actually building the code andhelping it learn better, and
adding in a whole lot ofsafeguards and ethics and things
like that. So it's quite aninteresting little model. And
it's getting better as it getsolder.
Mark Herring (02:54):
So it's at the
moment, because I think for a
lot of people I've been talkingto, they've been thinking that
it's basically connected to theinternet, and it's kind of like
gonna replace Google and it'sthis big sort of search engine,
that that's coming through thereon the track, isn't it? Like,
that's not the way it works atthe moment, but it might be in
the future?
Adrian Francis (03:10):
Ah, I'm not sure
I know, that creates, when it
creates a response. It's aunique response. So that's why
it's scaring a few teachers alittle bit at the moment,
because I go, Oh, my goodness,we're not going to be able to
track it. And we can't check outreplay drives. So I did a test
where the school last year,where we got six teachers to ask
the same question. And we gotsix completely different
answers. So once again, itdoesn't pull up from the same
(03:33):
stuff like a search enginewould. But I think it's a nice
opportunity for us to reflect onwhat we do in the classroom.
Paul Hamilton (03:40):
Yeah, I was just
saying that. For me, the big
difference is that it is a chat,it is a conversation. So when
you ask it a question, and itspits out a response, then you
don't have to retype the wholequestion. Again, you could say
Hang on, define that bit alittle bit more, and it will
join in the conversation. Soit's remembering the dialogue
that you're chatting with, andthen just building upon it, and
(04:02):
you're saving the chat or thedialogue. And so for a lot of
teachers, it's a lot morenatural, and it's a lot more
about a conversation or a littlebit more social in its response
and how you're talking to it.
And I think that is probably whyit's resonating with people
quite a lot. It's thatconversational talk that people
are liking.
Adrian Francis (04:22):
Yeah. Okay, now
before we jump somewhere else,
Mark, so I did one last week forI asked him to write a poem
about a friend of mine calledMike who was riding his bike.
And it was fairly fairly averagePowerball isn't that great. And
then I said, Write me a storyabout Mike who runs into a bunch
of climate change activists, andhas a nasty conflict. And so it
(04:42):
actually put mike back on a bikehaving a journey and an
experience and then running intothese activists as he went
through. So it's actuallygrabbed what I said before, put
it in the context of the nextbit and built on it to make this
story. Quite good. I thought itwas fun. Wow.
Mark Herring (04:56):
What would be some
examples of ways that we've used
it so Finally, things thatyou've played around with that
might be quite good because Iguess a lot of people listening
probably haven't had to jump inand had a go at it. What would
be some some more examples ofanybody got some
Adrian Francis (05:10):
Can I just crank
it back a smidge, Marcus Smith,
go talk a little bit about in,in schools and in education, we
tend to want to change whatwe're doing. But we're so stuck
got stuck, we're used to doingthe things that we normally do.
And when something like thiscomes across and becomes
disruptive, we automatically canthrow up the arms and do the
Henny Penny, oh, my goodness,the world is falling, this is
(05:31):
not going to be very good forus. Because of the fact that we
went through school and learn acertain way, our parents went
through school and in a certainway, we've then gone back to
school to teach in that samecertain way. And we haven't
really altered or changed muchabout what we do in education.
Now we can talk about Sir KenRobinson and what he said and
that and that was years ago. Andwe still haven't modified a lot
(05:52):
of what we do based on some ofthe stuff that he was talking
about maybe 1010 years ago. Andnow we get something like this
that could actually disrupt theway in which we work. Now I'm
based in Australia. And whenCOVID hit and we went into
lockdown schools, we're talkinga lot about before pre COVID
talking a lot about, you know,what are we doing to make
education more engaging with thedigital world? How can we use
(06:13):
this online environment better?
How can we create personalizedlearning, all those kinds of
things, but we didn't didn't doanything until that impetus came
to make us do it. And then whenwe flicked online, we found that
we could actually teach online,we could change the way in which
we did stuff to use technologyto run, engaging online lessons,
we learned a lot about how thatworks. But now that we've
slipped back into school, we'vekind of gone back into those
those habits that we did, prepandemic, if that makes sense.
(06:36):
So this thing is a niceopportunity for us to reflect on
what we do in schools, what thefuture is going to be like for
our students, and how do weprepare them for that? And how
can we use this tool for betterlearning outcomes. And that's
what I want to kind of come outat rather than the Henny Penny,
the sky is falling, all thosekinds of things. So I think
that's a really valuablediscussion. I don't think
(06:57):
there's an answer. But I thinkthat's something to probably
kick around a little bit. And wecan talk about as we go through
market there, how we can use itand what we can use it in the
classroom for and what we'vekicked around. And what we found
works well. And what we founddoesn't work. Well.
Mark Herring (07:08):
Going back to my
question before, what would be
some of the other things thatpeople have, have used or
handled looks a littleexperiment like firsthand
experiences that we've had,there's a couple that I've got,
but I know Paul, you've had aplay around with it.
Paul Hamilton (07:20):
Yeah. So, I think
the two things that I think we
can number one, I think is oneof the huge pain points in
schools is that the admin kindof work that teachers are doing
in regard to ticking off boxesand being able to pass into
admin and all that kind ofpaperwork, we used to call it
kind of paperwork stuff. Socouple of things that it does
(07:42):
really well is that when we'redesigning tasks, so the other
day, I was looking at someaugmented reality projects that
would use a specific app. And Ibasically said come up with
three creative student projectsusing this app on augmented
reality that were aligned to theAustralian curriculum. So
automatically, it was spittingout these three kind of project
(08:06):
based learnings but wasdefinitely aligned to it. Now,
the great thing about that isthat saved me a lot of research
making sure that it was anauthentic task, but also match
the curriculum that I had toteach. But the thing that I
loved about it is, because I hada really good knowledge of what
it spat out, I was then able toenhance it even more and put my
(08:28):
flavor on it, because we neveroutsource work that we don't
fully understand ourself. Andthat is the big danger. If I was
coming into a subject area, andI asked it to spit it out, and I
have no knowledge on it, how doI critically analyze whether
this is a good task or not. Soit's not taking the teacher out
of the equation. In fact, theteacher I think becomes even
(08:48):
more important, but what you canthen do is refine that task. So
I think one of those reallyeffective uses of it, mark would
definitely be aligning theresearch the the kind of the the
work, that's going to take a lotof time, but not a lot of mental
kind of energy. It is that kindof way that we can utilize it
(09:10):
really effectively.
Mark Herring (09:11):
Yeah, that's it's
there's some that's going to
really change like you weresaying change the whole process
of how a teacher will approachparticularly Planning and
Assessment and things but itchanges the whole role of the
teacher and in that example,like you gave when you're coming
up with you know, I know thatI'm thinking of an example, one
of our trainers Richard hasasked it to create a lesson plan
(09:36):
for I can't remember it was someformula, I think some math
formula, I might have even beennew Adrian, and then it'll give
you all of the bullet points andoutline that whole lesson plan
but like you're saying, youcan't just pick that up and then
put that into the classroom andthen just go straight to the
teachers, straight to thelearning, you know, with the
students, you have to actuallybe in the editing role, don't
you and you have to take yoursubject knowledge to that to
(09:57):
that piece.
Paul Hamilton (09:58):
I was just gonna
say not only But if you can add
all of your experience as ateacher and implement effective
pedagogy that goes with thecontent, that's that's where I
think it's a really greatmarriage between the two is
taking your experience andeverything that you've learned
face to face with the kids withchat GP TS expert knowledge of
(10:19):
finding, you know, the rightcontent, then that's a beautiful
marriage, I think between thetwo.
Adrian Francis (10:25):
So just a couple
of things that I've given a
crack at. Conscious of I'mtalking a lot, so I'll make sure
I've stopped talking to you,too. I just wanted it to write
some code form, which I'vealready written before, to do
with just using Google AppsScript to write some script to
grab a date and an event out ofa spreadsheet, and then drop it
(10:46):
into a calendar, and then sendan email reminder to someone and
I've written all that codebefore, so I got it to write it
for me. Now, it wrote reallygenerally the same kind of
structure that I had, I had acouple of different pieces and
that I hadn't thought of. So Iwent, Okay, let's have a look at
that works. But what it didn'tpick up was a couple of things
that you need to set up to makeit work in your environment. So
you can't just kind of cut andpaste it, you can cut and paste
(11:07):
it and build it like exactlywhat what Paul was saying, use
that wisdom to make it stronger.
But you've still got to know alittle bit about it, otherwise,
it will fall over and won'tquite work. So when I think
about it, it helps teachers dothat, as Paul said, the things
that kind of drive us nuts. Solet's pretend you've got to
write an email to a parent thatabout their student that's been
late to school, and is notreally going as well as I could
(11:29):
inherit results, and you'reconcerned about them. So
sometimes those kinds of emailsare really hard to write. So if
you put that information intodesign email for me about
Brenda, who's struggling inschool, she started off really
well, she seems to be mixingwith the wrong kind of people,
she's turned up late to school,I've noticed that she's not
dressed that nice, all thosekinds of things, it will then
(11:49):
create an email for you with anice flavor to it that then you
can modify and edit and thensend off. So that saves you a
bucket of time. And that kind offor me, that's where I'd be kind
of heading down that way justfor those envy minutes before we
talk about how we use itactually in the classroom for
learning.
Mark Herring (12:07):
And you can
actually ask it, you can tell
it, can you write it in with afriendly tone, you know, as if I
know the person reasonably well,you know, you can even give it
and then you can just like youwere saying before you actually
once it gives you the letter orthe email, you can ask it to
refine this a little bit. I've,I've done something similar with
a story. My wife's anillustrator, and we're thinking
(12:28):
about writing some storiesourselves. So she would, you
know, author the story and thenillustrate them. And I added,
I've got an idea in my head of astory that I'd quite like to
write. So I just said to her,Can you write a story about this
character who has this problem,and then he solves it at the end
by doing x and it wrote for? AndI said within 500 words, you
know, because it's a picturebook, and it wrote the story.
And then I and then I replied toit, I said, Could you change the
(12:51):
second scenario? So that itdoesn't do this? But it does
that? You know, and it would dothat as well. So, wow, it's a,
it's it's kind of it's askingthe question, in that scenario,
you know, and when you'rewriting the letter, or you're
crafting that, are you creating,like, as an author? Have I
written that book? Or have Ihave I had all the inspiration
ideas, and I've just got someoneto put the right words in the
(13:13):
right place? I mean, that's thequestion that that I think a lot
of teachers need to be asking.
And yes, two differentresponses. One is I haven't
written that at all. And theother responses, yeah, you've
just got someone to do thedriving, you're just you're
driving the car, but the engineis actually pulling you along. I
don't know what you think aboutthat. But
Paul Hamilton (13:28):
this is a really
interesting one, because it also
rolls over into the AI art,where there's big discussions
about who is the creators whenthe AI is scraping all the
content off the internet, andusing people's work to create
those magnificent pieces. And soyou know, someone that puts in
some of those prompts, and thenspits it out. And they're going
(13:49):
to publish that book. Andactually say that they are the
authors where they haven'twritten the test the text
itself, that's the big Well,it's not ethical, because it's
actually very black and white,you haven't written that text.
So you can't claim to be theauthor. But what you can do is
obviously modify that to a statewhere it's given you an idea and
(14:10):
you've taken that text andyou've rewritten it or something
like that, that may have someground there. But simply putting
in the prompts is like a art. Ifyou type in what you wanted to
create, you can't claim that artpiece is yours. And you can't
copyright it, just like all theartists that put their work out
that scrapes their copyright,and take their work and claim it
(14:31):
as your own. So we've got somelots of lawsuits. There's lots
of civil lawsuits at the momentwith the Ayar. It's really
interesting, where artists whohave worked produced that's very
similar with the same techniquesand styles are actually saying
you use my images to recreatethat, and therefore that's
against copyrights. So there's alot I think, to play out in a
legal sense, not so much withchat GPT but definitely the
(14:55):
artistic world and producingworks in that field.
Bex Rose (14:58):
I'm just wondering,
I'm listening To, you know, the
kinds of questions that you havebeen asking and thinking maybe
that needs to be the focus forteachers as to those questioning
techniques, problem solving,like all those things that have
been quite they've sort of cometo the forefront even just when
(15:18):
you're doing searches and stuff.
That's that's sort of where theteaching element comes in, and
what what the good questionslook like? How do you refine a
question? How do you read that,and those are the kinds of
things that teachers could beworking on with their kids as
well.
Adrian Francis (15:33):
And I think,
that's also what we tend to do
is we tend to mark outcome. Sowe set a task, like I'm an
expense teacher, so I've gotfive equations I need you to
solve and solve them. So thestudents to work out what what
variables are missing, and thenthey punch it into the equation,
they get the answer. Now, doesthat actually assess that they
(15:53):
know what they're doing, or theythen assess that they know the
process. So cover conversationsI've had with teachers around
this is really let's have a lookat at the moment, we assess
outcomes. So let's have a lookat that essay, their written
piece, that test or whatever, wemarketing gets a rubric or a set
of standards. And that gives usour outcome, but maybe we need
to start marking process of howthey actually get to that spot.
(16:14):
And the journey they take tolearn which takes a different
headset from a teacher. And thenmaybe just maybe we need to
teach wisdom, and maybe problemsolving. And then also that
whole idea of curating andcollecting and refining
information, which is a really,it's a higher level thinking
skill than just reading a bit oftext. And you know, the dog was
(16:37):
around the ball. The questionis, you know, what color was the
dog, the dog was black, allyou're doing is grabbing
information out of it, notreally analyzing it. So maybe
that gives us a slightlydifferent twist about what we
should be assessing, but alsowhat we need to be teaching
because it's a higher levelskill than just plopping a
number into an equation andgetting an answer.
Mark Herring (16:55):
And that's been
the big debate, I think over
over the sort of the last 50years has been this whole, you
know, we're talking about futurenow skills and future ready
skills. There's there's beensomething that's been going on
since 2000s. You know, I firstheard Mark Tribble talk about
that years ago, in the 2000.
Space, he was talking about theneed for for transitionary
skills for a modern world. Soreally, you reduce it down to
(17:16):
its bare bones, it's aboutmoving from memorization to
skills and processes andunderstandings, really, that's
what we're trying to do. And fora lot of current developing
countries, that's what they'retrying to do in terms of the
shift of education, they'retrying to shift their education
from a memorization base to askill base, that's what they're
trying to do this part of theirdevelopment. And it's almost
(17:38):
like this AI tool is comingalong is going to almost in one
sense force teachers to makethat shift. It's not an option
anymore. It's a necessity,because otherwise, all of your
students, if you're testing,memorization, and even some of
those basic skills, how do Iwrite an essay? They gotta we
all be coming out with a pluses.
(17:59):
Right? So I think that's one ofthe stresses at the moment for
people who see this coming. And,you know, like, like we've seen
before, I think, for a lot of usin the education sector, we're
probably a little bit unawareand a bit naive of what's coming
down the track. But for peoplewho are looking at it, they are
slightly freaking out. And thereis that concern, because they're
going to be forced, and theydon't quite know what that looks
(18:22):
like. So there's thatuncertainty. What do you think
about that? Is that, is thatgoing to continue to grow? Do
you think as a sector, we'regoing to the fear is just going
to keep compounding? Or do youlike, I know that we want to
have this conversation about theopportunities, and we want to
kind of dive into that and lookat that. But where's your sense
of where their sector overall isgoing to go? As the year starts
(18:44):
to unfold and the ripple effectsof this start to spread through
teaching?
Paul Hamilton (18:47):
I'll jump in
first, if I could. So I think
one of the one of the thingsthat has become really evident
this week is that it is a toolthat is a technical tool that
can go down and not beavailable, and it's not there
for our beck and call. So weknow that because everyone's
using it, it's crashed, it hasbeen unavailable, looks like
(19:08):
it's going to go behind apaywall looks like some
companies might acquire it andbuild it into their tools, which
is really, really interesting.
So when we become quite reliant,and I'm sure that people that
have jumped in and abused thatover the last couple of months,
like Adrian have said, havebecome quite reliant on it, it's
almost become part of theirdaily usage. So that's one thing
is to say, what if the tool isnot available anymore? What if
(19:28):
it kind of goes in a differentdirection? How does that
actually work? Going forward? SoI think that's really clear for
me, as an educator, and I don'tknow, I was spoken to my wife
who's also a secondary teacherat the moment. One of the first
thing she's going to do whenthey start back at school in a
week or so is have a discussionwith the kid especially the year
12 and not make it a secret andactually have this discussion to
(19:51):
say it's it's there. Let's talkabout it. Let's think about set
some guide guidelines down somerules down, but I think when it
becomes a secret when it becomesthis, I don't want to know about
it. And when it when it doesn'tbecome part of your discussion
as an educator, that's when itcould become problematic, right
is when you don't open up thediscussion and, and have your
(20:11):
students in on the conversationand talking about it. Because I
think for primary school, it'snot so much an issue, I think
the way that we do things inprimary school very much is
maybe a higher focus onformative assessment. We know
what our children are kind ofcreating towards that summary
phase. But I think withsecondary where we go more
(20:31):
project based and assignmentsand things where the kind of end
product is the one that getsmarked, and there's not as much
time to do that back and forth,with with drafts and so forth,
that it's going to become thereal issue. So I guess my
takeaway would be open thediscussion, certainly with your
staff and principals, when yougo back have a really good
robust discussion about it.
(20:53):
Because you don't want it to bethis secret that sitting behind
because it is the mosttransformative Tech, I think
I've seen in the last 10 to 15years. So it's a Yeah, to have
that discussion.
Adrian Francis (21:03):
I think also,
there's probably two aspects,
there's where this is going toaffect what we do in the
classroom. That's probably thefirst bit so in the classroom
when we're doing our teaching,but also how this is going to
affect our teachers workload. Sothere's probably those two
aspects here. So if we look atthe in the classroom thing, I
think it can be used in a reallybeneficial way. Rather than Oh,
my goodness, this is the worstthing in the world, we're going
(21:24):
to knock it out and ban it.
Because if you think about, say,second language, second language
learning so far, Mina, and ESLstudents, English is my second
language, and I'm predominantlyin the school that speaks
English. For me to get better atconversational English, that's
really hard to do. Because I'vegot to find someone to be able
to do that. But with ChapterTBT, you can actually have a
typing conversation with thisthing that will help you have an
(21:46):
understand the way in whichnuances work in language to be
able to help you with yourlanguage skills. So I think that
is a really, really good tool.
And if you pair that up withreading progress inside
Microsoft Teams, you've got agreat experience for students to
be able to increase theirlearning in terms of the
language and the writing skills,and all those kinds of things to
(22:08):
up that standard and make it alevel playing field. So it's a
really good opportunity to useit for helping students get
better at what they do, ratherthan locking it down and
stopping them in that space,which is a scary space to step
into. Because as a teacher, youstart losing a bit of control
about what's actually happeninginside the classroom inside that
learning for students. And Ithink as Paul was saying that
(22:29):
drafting process is going tobecome more and more important,
because of the fact that if youonly see the piece of work at
the end, and you then whack itinto a plagiarize checker, this
is maybe in the high schoolarea, you're not going to pick
it up in a plagiarism checkerbecause it's not plagiarized. So
you'll need to have that processof can I see the student's work
as they're going through? Can Ihave seen evidence of them
(22:50):
working in class. So therefore,teacher is going to be a bit
more mobile, seeing what's goingon and touching base with
students a bit more. So they canguarantee that that work is
this. Now I'm not saying not usechat feature to be, don't use
the chat to get the research andthings that you need to write
your essay. But then write youressay based on the back of that
or write your response on theback of that. I think that's a
(23:11):
really good skill for studentsto learn as well.
Mark Herring (23:15):
It's interesting,
because there are states like in
the US, I know that there aredistricts in certain states that
are banning it, you know, theyare blacklisting it off the you
know, routers and the Internetfilters and things like that,
that. And that tends to be thesometimes there can be the knee
jerk reaction for, for educatorsis to just ban it. I remember,
like I think what you're sayingis this is the first major
(23:36):
disruption we've had for 10 to15 years. I think the other the
other one that we've hadrecently that is on the same
kind of level is this move tocloud computing, from keeping
things on your server to now youcan do it online, because now
all of a sudden collaborationturned up. And if you look at
the history of how a lot ofcountries schools teachers
responded to that was they said,Well, I don't want my students
(23:58):
using a Google Doc or aMicrosoft Word doc to be able to
collaborate, I'm just going toit's pen and paper because I
want them to focus on the skill.
And one of my concerns is that alot of teachers, they're going
to do that, that this will beanother nail in the coffin for
digital tools to because ifthey're stuck in this kind of
memorization, skill, base,reading, writing, maths kind of
approach of what they want theirstudents to achieve, they'll
(24:18):
just say, well, we're not goingto have any digital in our in
our classrooms. And we're goingto focus them on this. Now I'm
not I'm not putting a valuejudgment on their, you know, any
kind of moralistic judgment onthat. I think that that could be
one of the one of the outcomes.
I think it's worth thinkingabout as as a school, like
you're saying, Paul, how are wegoing to respond to this? Yeah,
(24:39):
what's going to be our responseI'm going forward
Paul Hamilton (24:42):
to really foster
or encourage some things that
send us backwards. So when I'mthinking of banning something,
let's say a school bands it andthen let's say there's a
greatest emphasis on On Demandwriting exam type setups, stuff
that we know is not in the realworld, but only in the education
(25:03):
set system that is behind by afairway. But because the bandit
and they're scared of it,they'll say, right, you sit down
here handwrite, you've got 20minutes to produce something
really quickly. So what they'lldo is they'll look at what's out
there. And then they'll designsome sort of assessment that is
actually worse pedagogy that'sworse for the student, and worse
for the outcome, to actually getwhat they want at the end of it.
(25:25):
So I think this can actuallyenhance what we do. But it also
could send us backwards quite along way, if we don't embrace
it, or at least talk about thebenefits of using it. The other
thing to think about is you canbend that as much as you want in
schools, students will find away a little bit long dress and
arc and the dinosaurs, they willfind a way. And if they're doing
(25:45):
most of their assessments athome, I've got kids that have
just finished year 12 and aregoing through year 11, and 12.
Now, they don't do their work inclass, they're doing it at home,
they're doing it on weekends,they're staying up late at
night. So that banding and allthat thing, it's not going to
work. So I think it's time tohave those really good, robust
discussions about where we cantake this. So also,
Mark Herring (26:05):
let's, let's try
and drill down and focus on the
positives. So as of now, like,we know that there's big issues,
you know, in our leaders, Ithink there's something that we
need to grapple with. And thiswill, this will go on over a
period of time, there's anevolution of us changing tech,
and then the tech changing us.
And so you could replace us witheducation as well. So that's
going to be going going whatcould teachers be doing this
(26:25):
month, next month, the monthafter to really grab this and
use the opportunity for somegood with their students?
Adrian Francis (26:35):
So I can if we
look at the pain points for
teachers, what do they findpainful. The first thing is
always creating those unit plansof work. Unless they've got them
beforehand, especially for yourfirst hour teacher, you know,
you're kind of struggling to getthis lesson plan, you've got to
teach that lesson, yoursupervisor looks at it, this can
help you build a structure of alesson plan. And as Paul said
(26:55):
before, you can link it to theAITSL or the teaching standards.
And that saves you a bunch oftime, you still have to refine
it, you can't just take it andrun with it. Because sometimes
it just doesn't work, you know,oh my goodness, that's not gonna
work in my class, or you use itas a template, give it a crack,
and go, Oh, my goodness, thething that I thought was going
to take 15 minutes took me 35.
So I'll just go in there andchange it around. So use it as
that base to help you createyour lesson plans. And help you
(27:18):
save that time. So you can focuson that teaching in the
classroom, but then go back andrefine it. The other thing I
think you could use it for inthat lesson planning area. So
look, I'm going to teach alesson on Monday, on some sort
of, say, a year level physicsthing. I teach thing on motion,
please give me five things, Ican teach my new 10 class on
(27:41):
motion, it's good to go for 45minutes. And please give me some
YouTube videos. So I can go andlearn about it beforehand. Now
that gives you a resource, soyou can actually get it ready to
roll, you can then use it asyour learning spot. But if you
want to be even more clever withit, which I would be thinking is
that personalized learning thatyou can then personalize it for
different students in yourclass, you can differentiate
(28:02):
straightaway. And give them aseparate learning task learning
journey, learning whatever, inthat space by using the chat GPT
to generate it for it. And theycan have all the same overall
experience. But it's beenpersonalized and differentiated
for each student with thoseresources at the bottom of it,
you still need to look at thoseresources and make sure they're
(28:23):
appropriate. But I think fordifferentiation in the
classroom, it's superb. And thenif you link it to a rubric or an
outcome site and link it to thisrubric for my assessment, then
you know, your assessments goingto be the same across all your
students, even though the taskmight be slightly different for
each student because of the factthat there's been
differentiating for you, whichtakes time in real life. But you
can get this to a point,
Mark Herring (28:46):
time savers are
reported.
Bex Rose (28:48):
I'm kind of off the
back of off the back of what
Paul was saying about his wifegoing into secondary school and
talking to their kids about it.
Ask your kids what they can dowith it, and give them a roll
with it because then you've gota really good understanding of
how far they can take it aswell. Get them to have a go and
ask the questions and see whatthey come up with. And, and
start from that because at theend of the day, once you open it
(29:10):
up, they're gonna go and give ita go anyway, so actually finding
out what they get out of it aswell would be a really good
opportunity for them, then youhave a really good understanding
of their questioning techniques.
And maybe there's some key areasthere that you could work on.
And see what they come up with.
Adrian Francis (29:30):
Some of my
reading as well, Mark I was
looking at Yeah, I just kind ofthought well, what else could
you use chat GBT for and one ofthe ones that came up quite
regularly was like a virtualassistant. So typing students
can say we're on the schoolwebsite do I need to look to
find canteen times and it willgo through and look at your
school website or then give youthe idea down to find it so you
can use that as a virtualassistant to help you and for
(29:52):
students to work their wayaround. But just imagine
onboarding a new staff member,you know, where do I go in the
school now to find this use thethe school's website, fill it in
grab that information that willhelp you out that way. So it's
an interesting kind of virtualassistant slash, I don't need to
ask everyone about this, I canactually find something about
myself. So it'd be interestingto see how well that does that.
But it could be a nice littlehelper for students and teachers
(30:13):
as well.
Mark Herring (30:14):
That might be
something that comes further
down the track, because I don'tknow that it is connected to the
internet at the moment, becausewhenever I've tried to get it to
do that, it sort of says, Idon't have access to the
Internet right now. So thatyeah, that's definitely down the
track, I think.
Paul Hamilton (30:26):
Yeah, I think the
other thing too, to realize is
that this is coming from primaryteachers heart and soul here is
looking at beyond the text aswell. So obviously, it's a
dialogue, and it's a chat, so itinvolves text, but it also spits
out emojis. So as a primaryteacher, let's say that I'm a
learning support teacher, andwe're doing a book study on
(30:48):
Harry Potter. And my studentsare really struggling with the
text, but they're going throughit and we're discussing it, you
can ask chat GPT does spit out50 emojis in sequential order of
the plot of Harry Potter, andthen use that as a visual
stimulus and scaffold that foryour students to make sense of
what those emojis are, and havethose discussions. And so you
(31:08):
could create a great little workactivity around what are the
emojis in order here? And howdoes that correlate with the
plotline of the book. And so Ithink for me, the magic of chat
GPT is going to be in thecreative ideas that teachers
come up with to us. And thestudents, that's the gold
ticket. And to be honest, that'sbeen the way in ed tech for the
(31:29):
last 1015 years, right? Theteachers, the innovators are the
ones that look at creative andeffective uses of the tech, not
just using how it's been usedbefore. It's almost like, we're
all pioneers, right? We'realways coming up with new ideas.
And I think teachers kind ofundersell themselves as pioneers
quite a lot, because they'recoming up with new ideas all the
time.
Mark Herring (31:50):
So So for former
teacher looking at this, and I
haven't heard anything about it,I don't know where to go, where
would you go to have a have atrial credit account, have a
little play around before youget back into things with your
teachers, students? Or ifyou're, you know, you got
students tomorrow? Where wouldyou go to get that started?
Paul Hamilton (32:08):
I'll jump in
first really quickly, I simply
have a play first. So that mything would be if you can get on
it, because we know that it'sbeen down recently. Jump in and
have a play yourself. Because itI would say that as soon as you
put in that first response,you've got the oh, well, I can,
I can see what everyone'stalking about here. So if you
(32:30):
type in a question or a prompt,you're not going to get that and
see it authentically. So thatwould be my first point is have
a play. We can put the link toit there. But if you just Google
Chat GPT it'll come up there,you can sign in so that it
records your dialogueconversations a little bit like,
Hey, I met with BEX the otherday. And this is almost like a
(32:51):
what we talked about in thiskind of subsection, which is
really, really nice. But myfirst advice would be before you
open up, you never open up newtech in front of the kids and
explore have applied yourselffirst, just so that you're
comfortable with it, you've gota basic knowledge before you
talk to your kids about it.
Adrian Francis (33:08):
That's really
cool. So I mean, for me, I keep
on coming back to that timesaving thing, because when you
talk to teachers at the end ofterm two or term three, they'll
always say, I'm gonna give yousome tough time for
understanding the pump. So I'dbe looking at it to see where I
can save time. So that might bean even writing some generalized
reports for students here. Whatdo you hate about teaching I
don't like I just don't likewriting reports. At the end of
(33:30):
the term, well throw your dataand they get it to write a
report for you use that as areport bank, but then you can
customize and edit and useagain, so you don't have to
reinvent the wheel. I have askedit to grade a an English essay.
And it does really well. Ittells you the things that
they've done really well thestrength where it's fallen down.
And if you say you specificallylook for grammar and sentences
(33:51):
and references to as a Romeo andJuliet essay, it will then tell
you where those references weredone properly, and whether it
was done accurately as well. Sothat would save a bit of time.
But once again, you're stillgonna go look back and look at
it again. So I think it's areally good way of being able to
save things. But as Beck said, Iget the kids to give it a crack.
Talk to the students about this.
This is what's here. How can weuse this better for you? What do
you think you can use it for tomake your learning better? And
(34:14):
how can I help you use this thebest way you can so that you
learn better in my classroom.
And I think that's where thatpersonalized learning is going
to come in.
Mark Herring (34:24):
And that's the
conversation that you can be
having, right because it's abroader conversation about
technology and the best caseuses of it. So whether it's
students spending far too muchtime on Tik Tok, or whether
they're using AI to generate artthat's not really theirs. And
then they're, you know, using itfor for means where they're
going to make a monetary gain.
There's lots of conversationsabout the ethical use of
technology that I think thisjust as a really good topical
(34:45):
thing to grab. It's front ofnews at the moment and a lot of
people are talking about it, usethat as an option to have those
conversations with the students.
So yeah. Great, great, great wayto start, whatever it is that
you're doing any class I sharedwith the students for sure.
Adrian Francis (35:02):
It'll be
interesting to see where it gets
to, like where it morphs to whathappens next? And what gets
value added to it. Because yousort of see what's a Nike,
Apple, Microsoft and Google's,what are they doing evaluate
this space as well. So it'll beinteresting to see what comes
off the back of it, Microsoft'sgot a really cool thing coming
out with language. So you getyou get something to read it to
(35:23):
you. And it's very monotone,because it's that kind of voice
that they've recorded. If younow speak to it, it picks up all
your intonations, and then whenyour text is read back to you,
it takes those intonations andmakes it real. So it sounds like
a real person reading to you. Sothat's going to be live in a
little bit. That's really cool.
So just imagine that beingpaired with this, that brings up
a really good opportunity forthat kind of your conversation
with someone who doesn't exist.
Paul Hamilton (35:46):
We go into the
Entertainment Tonight part of
this segment. And we look atwhat's happening and the things
that might not be true.
Definitely lots of reports atthe moment about Microsoft
acquiring that for $10 billion.
So that's the big news at themoment that they can build into
their Microsoft toolset inregard to Excel and Word. So
(36:07):
lots of talk about that. I'mpretty sure Microsoft were some
of the early adopters andinvestors and they've already
invested a lot of money alongwith Elon Musk and some other
people in regards to open AI,open AI, which is the company.
So that's the kind of talk to iswhere where does the paywall
start and it's already started.
Now, if you've been on recently,you'll notice that you might
(36:28):
have got a request to join thepro account, which will give you
free access when the server isdown or when it's not working,
you get free access with no waitperiods. So there's always going
to be a manner monetization ofthis we need. If we want good
tools to be working well,there's a whole team behind it,
you can imagine the team behindthis at the moment that needs to
(36:49):
be employed and paid and allthat sort of thing. So it's
really interesting now to seethe companies that might
leverage that from our platform,and from their market share
point of view, and how some ofthe other platforms might
scramble in regards to kind ofbring out something similar or
investing at least in in thatsort of tech.
Adrian Francis (37:11):
And also, where
I mean this while we're while
we're doing the Saturday NightLive, or whatever show we're on
the the the ethical side of it.
So you're getting responses thathave been written in a certain
way, especially when you have aconversation about what cultural
and ethical background has beenused to generate those
(37:32):
responses. And that'd be a greatthing for a philosophy caf or an
ethical class at the higherlevel in education to kick
around, you know, who's makingthese decisions to give you
those responses? Are we gettingthe responses from a developed
third world AI, or are we havingit from a developing country
point of view. So it's reallyinteresting the way in which
(37:53):
those responses are given. Andthat would be a really good
thing to dig into as well, whichwe haven't got time to today.
But I'd like to explore how thathas been used and therefore how
your thought processes have beennot controlled, but kind of
buried in by the responses thatyou get from this AI. So it's a
very interesting world to be inor interesting space to be in.
Mark Herring (38:14):
Like a TARDIS
isn't it? As soon as you take a
little look inside. It just getsbigger, bigger, and all the
questions is huge and huge.
Yeah, so maybe to wrap up, ifeverybody just think of what's
one key takeaway that a teachercould take, maybe whether it's
something for themselves, orsomething that they can use to
share with their staff or as aleader with your team, what
would be one thing that you'dtake away from this
conversation?
Paul Hamilton (38:37):
But for me, it
would be give it a go. Yeah, I'm
with you. They can jump in andhave a go and talk about it with
staff for me, try to set up someframeworks when you introduce it
to your staff, because I thinksometimes frameworks and
parameters for your discussionare really good. So I know that
when I used to hold staffmeetings, it was I'm going to
introduce this tool, but I needto set some guidelines here,
(39:00):
we're not going to bejudgmental, we're not going to
bring our own emotions to it.
We're going to criticallyanalyze and see what it does,
what it does well, and whatimpact it will have on our
students. So sometimes in staffmeetings, we know this as
teachers, we can get overemotional about bringing our own
history to the table and a wholerange of different things that
doesn't, we end the meeting withnot knowing what we spoke about
(39:21):
or what actionable there are. SoI think for me is bring it to
the staff meeting, introduce it,get excited about what it can
do. But then just criticallyanalyze it go through a little
plus minus interesting orwhatever you want might want to
do about it, to get people tolook at it instead of just
making a judgement based onsomething that maybe it's not
(39:41):
the best judgment to hold it on.
So that would be my advice.
Bex Rose (39:46):
I would absolutely do
that at a teacher on a day like
what a great team buildingactivity as well. Like who can
come up with the coolest thingyou know, like bring this to a
teacher any day, giving it anhour for all staff, they could
collaborate together they couldgo on one on one Like, how cool
would that be coming up with,you know, who can bring back
something crazy or cool or wow,you know, and being able to
(40:07):
share it. So a big great teacheronly egg day activity.
Adrian Francis (40:11):
I would really
be looking at that personalized
learning and differentiation inthe classroom. So I think we
talk about it a lot. But it'svery hard to do sometimes in
class. And this could give us areally good way of being able to
create tasks, assignments, orwhatever for our students to be
able to create their ownlearning journey within the
parameters that we set. And Ithink that would be a really
(40:32):
good way to even get thestudents to, you know, you might
be doing something in, say foodtech, which we call over here in
Australia. So I've got to createyou bake a cake and decide that
these are the ingredients you'vegot come up, they're a recipe
that you need to prepare and dowithin a 45 minute lesson. And
you've got to make theseoutcomes, each student can come
up with an Individual LearningPlan, based on what they want to
do, uses the ingredients thatyou've already ordered into the
(40:53):
school, every kid's doingsomething slightly different,
but within a framework, you'vegot an assessment tool there,
and they own the learning. And Ithink for me, that would be a
really super cool place to startin using it to actually enhance
the learning outcomes forstudents.
Mark Herring (41:08):
So cool. Well, if
you're if you're watching and
you'd like to know anythingmore, don't ask us because we're
still learning, we're askingquestions as well. So So I
think, you know, in all of thework that we're doing with
schools and working withteachers in classrooms, I think
we're going to see this evolvingover time. And it's going to be
really interesting to see asmonth goes by what happens with
(41:29):
acquisitions, and whetherthere's a paywall, and all of
the different types oftechnologies that start to be
combined. So that this isn'tjust an AI tool that's using
words, but it's actually usingvisuals, it could be using
webcams, there's talk about itusing AI and the human behavior,
space and voice as well. So it'sgoing to be interesting to see
what happens with that. I thinkmy biggest takeaway is just just
(41:51):
being open. You know, like Paulwas saying, being open to the
possibilities, looking at thingsobjectively, looking at the the
things that we might need to beconcerned about, but then also
looking for the opportunities aswell. And I think it's a really
good opportunity for people tocontinue having this
conversation as we go forward.
So thanks, everybody. Great tohave you on the call. And we'll
see you with the next hugeadjustment and innovation that's
(42:13):
coming up with tech GPT