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April 3, 2023 20 mins

In this episode, we explore the differences between coaching and mentorship. While both are powerful tools for personal and professional growth, they have distinct approaches and outcomes. We dive into the characteristics of each, including the level of structure, guidance, and relationship-building involved. Our guest speakers share their experiences and insights on when coaching or mentorship may be more appropriate and how to best utilise each to achieve your goals. Whether you're a seasoned professional or just starting out, this episode will provide valuable insights on which approach may be right for you.


We post every week and would love to have you keep up with us. If you know someone who would get value from these episodes, hit the share button and let them know. Lastly, if you have questions or anything to share with us, email us at team@usingtechnologybetter.com. You can also contact Bex at bex@usingtechnologybetter.com to find out how you can get free PD in your schools (NZ) or follow us on Instagram at @usingtechnologybetter or on youtube.com/@utb

We’d love to hear from you! See you next week.

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Episode Transcript

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Bex Rose (00:00):
Ultimately, the key to successful coaching and

(00:02):
mentoring is buildingrelationships based on trust
100% in open communication, andas leaders, it's our
responsibility to create aculture that values and supports
both coaching and mentoring, Ithink this place for both the
better mindset podcast

Mark Herring (00:21):
Welcome to the better mindset Podcast. I'm Mark
Herring. And I'm Bex Rose. Andthis is Episode 12, a podcast
where our aim is to help you bebetter school leaders and
teachers, and to drive effectivedigital change in your schools
on today's episode, making wavesin schools today is the
potential for coaching to buildour capacity and skills, BEX,

(00:41):
and I discussed the differencesbetween coaching and mentoring
and the opportunities for theseapproaches with your team.
Alright, on today's makingwaves, because you've got
something for us today, yeah.

Bex Rose (00:54):
So today, we're gonna talk about coaching versus
mentoring. And I know you'vebeen both mark. And I know it's
worked for us both and what weprefer. So I'm going to talk a
bit about how they differ butalso how they're both super
important when you're in theschools or in any type of
institutions. So, as a leader,I've been set, I've seen

(01:16):
firsthand benefits of coachingand mentoring. So both of these
practices are essential tosupport the growth and
development of our students andteachers. So however, there are
some significant differencesbetween the two. So we're going
to unpack what they look liketoday and and how you can
implement aspects of bothcoaching or mentoring and your

(01:38):
leadership practice. So let'sstart with coaching. Because I'm
not I'm not favoritism, but itis my favorite. So coaching. So
coaching was something I wasintroduced to, really early on
in my leadership journey, so sowe're just going to unpack what
it is first. So coaching is ashort term relationship between

(02:01):
a coach and a coach, ie with afocus on improving specific
skills or achieving specificgoals. So coaching sessions are
usually structured with a clearwith clear objectives and
timelines, and often involvefeedback and accountability. And
the model that I've used in mytime has the acronym growth,

(02:22):
which takes you through theprocess of coaching, your
coaching. So coaching can beincredibly powerful, because it
provides the space forindividuals to reflect on their
practice and identify areas ofgrowth. So it really gives that
sense of power to the coach, IEas opposed to the coach.

(02:45):
Coaching can be incrediblypowerful, because it provides a
space for individuals. And itcan also be an opportunity to
learn new strategies, andreceive constructive feedback,
and practice skills in asupportive environment. Because
the coaching is reallyrelationship driven and as and

(03:05):
that's a key area at thebeginning is to really build
that relationship with yourcoachee. So I was introduced to
it early on, as I said before myleadership career and a bit of
background was that I was quitea young dp and I was surrounded
by incredible, incredibleleaders across across the board

(03:28):
and teachers and my staff. So Ikind of felt like I was this new
person like coming in and, andwho was I to know, because I was
pretty young as well. So I gotput through a series of
coaching, leadership sessions,and got learn how to just
basically provide the frameworkto have these growth coaching
conversations with my staff orwith teachers across the Kol.

(03:52):
And it was a really coolopportunity for me to feel like
I could really help peoplearound me because ultimately,
that's what I wanted to do. ButI wanted to do it. I had a
structure to be able to do that.
And all I had to do was ask theright questions at the right
time to help them work out wherethey needed to go next. Yeah,
yeah. And that's something we doin our certified leadership

(04:15):
program to write so much on atalk to the way in which we
coach.

Mark Herring (04:21):
Yeah, coaching. I wasn't really around when I
started teaching, either it wassomething that was happening
probably incidentally, or justover those cups of coffee in the
staff room. But over the lastthree to four years, I think
really in the last two years,that's where it's become really
popular, particularly inschools, but across you know,
all industry areas. And it'slike what you say it's a real

(04:43):
opportunity for people to beable to develop their own
capability and their ownstrength that's that. I like to
think of that analogy of, of notgiving people fish but actually
giving them a fishing rod. Andso really what you're doing is
you're helping them to learn howto fish you're helping them to
think through The process forthemselves, you're asking those
key questions that when you'renot there, the person is enabled

(05:05):
to be able to do that thinkingfor themselves. And it's a
really, really powerful tool onthe leadership program that we
do, we use it as a way toscaffold the application of the
content that we give people. Sowe're great at finding all of
the leadership content, theframeworks, the concepts and the
content that people can use tobe able to help them in their
leadership journey in theschool. But then it's the

(05:28):
application of that that oftenmisses, you know, and that's
where I think the learningsometimes doesn't quite gel or
doesn't really stick. But ifwe're in a coaching situation,
where we're able to prompt themand you know, ask them those
guiding questions, ask them thefive why's and, and really dive
deep into things. And that'swhen they can start to make the
connections between the contentthat we're giving them and their

(05:50):
actual context. I think that'sreally where I see it being
really valuable,

Bex Rose (05:55):
totally, and really empowering for them, because
they feel like they've come upwith their solutions. And then
you're more inclined to followthrough with those ideas,
because you kind of feel likeyou've come up with them. And
that's how I felt as a coachee.
As well as like, Ah, okay, cool,I kind of got that I got to this
point on my own, you know, withthe coaching out, but you kind
of felt like, rather than beingtold what to do, you're being
helped to find the way forwardon your own. I think the other

(06:18):
thing about coaching was thatwas really important to have
those touch points, those thoseregular cadence of touch points
in coaching, and we made itreally clear, and our staff that
we would make that a priority inour staff meeting time, because
otherwise, it becomes somethingthat is another add on. And

(06:40):
another thing to do. So everyfour weeks, we do three, three,
the three weeks would be workingon strategic goals that we're
working on. And then the fourthweek would be the coaching
session. And so that cadence wasregular, and mean that you knew
that you had to have thatconversation with your coach
every four weeks, so you didn'tdo something, you got that

(07:01):
accountability points. But alsoyou had dates that you knew how
to get stuff done by and that iswhere the magic happened for me
in terms of coaching was that Ihad made short succinct goals,
kind of like that 12 weekworking year thing where it was
like, by the end of the week,I'm going to do this and it

(07:21):
didn't have to be massive, butit meant that it was it got
traction and the goals and itmeant that I had done one little
next step for the next thing.
And it was it was where Istarted seeing some real
traction in my growth. Somassive fan of coaching, as you
can probably hear that I'm goingto talk about mentoring now. So

(07:41):
mentoring, on the other hand, isas a long term relationship
between a mentor and a mentee.
And it's got a focus of personaland professional development. So
unlike coaching, mentoring isless structured and the mentor
takes more of a holisticapproach to supporting the
mentor, the mentee. So Mentoringcan be incredibly beneficial
because it provides people witha role model and a sounding

(08:03):
board. And I know that at thebeginning principals always get
the view their mentor to beginwith, and it just gives them
you've been in the scenariobefore, like, tell me what you
did in this moment. So mentorscan offer that guidance and
support and advice base based ontheir own experiences and
expertise. So their mentees,their their mentees? Not

(08:27):
mentees, mentees often developthat sense of loyalty and trust,
but towards their mentor, whichcan be powerful motivator for
growth and development. Sothere's a there's that real sort
of like sense of, I don't know,looking up to them, and really
trusting what they have to sayand really trusting that they're

(08:48):
giving them advice that aregoing to help them in their own
space. So the question is, Iguess, Have you have you been?
What what do you think, Mark?
Like you've been probably inboth situations? How have the
experiences differed for you?
Like what is something that youcan take from from mentorship

(09:10):
that perhaps you do in your ownleadership? Practice as well?

Mark Herring (09:19):
Yeah, there's, there's a couple of thoughts,
one of them, I think, it's, it'sreally easy to get the two mixed
up, because they are so similarin the way, you know,
effectively, it's a conversationand it's a contact point with
another person. And I thinksometimes when you're in a
coaching situation, you might bemostly coaching. So asking
questions, that's how I woulddefine it. Because I remember I

(09:42):
remember having to ask somebodya while ago, you know, what's
the difference between coachingand mentor? I didn't really kind
of understand we were new tocoaching in the company,
particularly and but but really,you're actually doing both
sometimes, you know, you mightbe in a coaching phase, but then
there's a mentor situation thatmight take over so there's a
conversation where you're youare in a place to be able To
give advice or, you know, thisis what I did when I was in that
place, or have you thoughtabout, you know, those types of

(10:04):
questions. So in any oneparticular conversation, whether
it's formal or informal, itmight be conversational and
coaching base, but then youmight flip into mentoring mode,
and then vice versa as well.
Sometimes I think the bestmentors who have been there done
that blaze the trail, and theyare guiding someone, you know,
along the pathway, they mayusing may use a coaching
approach. So I think it can cankind of depend on, you know, the

(10:28):
situation and the experiencelevels of the people involved.
But I think from a leadershipperspective, when we're working
with leaders in schools, usuallythey're engaging with us as a
company, because they want tosee some change, they want to
see, you know, digitaltransformation in the school,
they want to see some innovativepractice, they want to improve
their culture, they want toimprove, improve their

(10:49):
processes, and systems and thosetypes of things. So there's some
change element that they'retrying to get, you know, into
their school. What we often hearas a default system is that as
leaders, they think, right, Ineed to get this change
happening, I'm going to givethem some content and some
training. So I'm going to getthem all in a room, and I'm
going to give them what theyneed. And then that will affect

(11:10):
the change. And there is a timeand place for that. But I think
a lot of leaders aren'trecognizing the power and
potential of the coachingmentoring approach to really
develop some internal capacityin your team, because there's so
much power that can, that can begained by little touch points

(11:30):
over a period of time whenpeople are continually being
brought back to a goal or beingguided and scaffolded in that
way. And I think as as leaders,if we're able to find a way in
our schools to set up, you know,a formalized structured coaching
approach, where you have twopeople connecting with each
other to two teachers that arecolleagues, you know, that are

(11:52):
coaching each other, and youneed to give them training to be
able to do that. But, you know,give them guiding questions,
those types of things, give themthe time, like you were saying
in a meeting space, but alsolooking like I think probably I
think a lot of schools arerealizing that, you know, most
schools that we go into now,when we say one of our favorite
approaches to be able to buildcapacity is the coaching
approach, and we'll talk aboutthat. But what I reckon Beck's
is missing, too, is exactly whatyou're talking about in the

(12:16):
mentoring space. I don't knowthat we're giving those
experienced teachers, theteachers who I would sort of
describe as the lead teachers inthe school, the opportunity and
maybe the permission to beconnected with those younger
teachers, those inexperiencedteachers in a way that can guide
them and put them into thatformal mentoring process. I
wonder if there's a trick therethat we're missing in the

(12:39):
schools for that to be able tobe a thing?

Bex Rose (12:43):
Yeah, I think there's a capacity thing. Yeah. Because
I think people are just tappedout with everything that they
have to do on their own classes.
And there is that but gettingteacher model where you have
your associate teacher for twoyears, and I think that's a
really important component. Iagree with you. I think having
someone that's lived the shoeshave been in the shoes and

(13:04):
giving that advice can bereally, really beneficial. But I
have to admit when I had, yeah,it's how you do it like, and
it's also war stories don'twork, war story, hearing war
stories over and over again. Andthis is what happened. And also
think about even five years ago,when we're in schools to what

(13:25):
we're doing now. Types ofchange, and the changes are
super fast. So your context thatyou have, when you're beginning
principal, would be completelycompletely different to what
they're dealing with today. Likecompletely different. And so so
there is there is that wholeYep, you've been you've, you've
been a principal for 25 years.

(13:45):
That's awesome. But it was very,very different. When you started
being a principal to what it istoday. Like think of even just
the communication with parentsthink of the the way that
parents interact with schools 25years ago than they are today. I
just truly think that that thatmentoring does, yeah, it
definitely does have its place,but also coaching can really

(14:05):
draw out the best in people anddraw out your game. Yeah, you
you're in the role for a reasonas as a teacher or as in
leadership. So you've got theideas there somewhere. And I
think the coaching draws it outbecause it gives it that space
for you to think because there'snot very, it's not very often

(14:26):
that you actually have that timeto really think about your
practice or pedagogy, yourgoals. You're kind of like I'm
doing this and I'm doing thisand I'm doing this, and then I'm
gonna mentor meeting, I'mhearing all the things that I
need to do and you're like, howthe heck am I going to do that?
And then you get, you know, soit's, it's that space that I
think is the key component toreally make it work. Yeah, I
haven't. So mine's actually, Ido look up to people that I must

(14:48):
admit, like coming into thisrole is very different to what I
tried. I was a trained teacher,and now I'm working at a
completely different facet of acareer, you know, like it's
completely different. And I'vegot a best friend who I talked
to and he He rolls me through awhole bunch of different things
in the business world. And if Ididn't have his voice in my head
or his, his his learnings acrossthe business side of things, I'd

(15:10):
be screwed. I love listening towhat he has to say, and he and
that mentor role. So, and that'snot coaching, that's just
telling me the ins and outs ofbusiness. And what happens,
which is mentoring. Yeah. Whichis mentoring. So yeah,

Mark Herring (15:21):
yeah, I agree with everything you're saying. I
think it's about using the bestof the both approaches. And so
you know, like you're saying,because the context is
continually changing. And we'refacing different challenges,
like the challenge that allteachers are facing with AI, and
how you how you move throughthat landscape, nobody really
knows what that means. So thereis nobody who can mentor you

(15:42):
through that, effectively. Andthat so that's the place of
coaching, I think that's, youknow, being able to ask
questions, you know, well, whyis that an issue? Okay, tell me
more about that. What does thatmean for you? What are the
implications, you know, diggingdeeper, though, all of those
coaching techniques. But I thinkI think the place that mentoring
has is, like you're saying, withyour friend in the business
space, if you're able to connectwith experienced educators who

(16:03):
may not have faced the samechallenges that you're facing,
but they're able to help youapply the same principles that
guided them through thechallenges that they faced, that
can help you with this, youknow, stuff, it's principle
based, or values based offthings like putting the student
first, or thinking about thelong term vision or you know,
about considering allstakeholders, all of those types
of things that sometimes, asleaders in the modern school, we

(16:26):
can forget, you know, that we'velike, it's so easy to forget
about listening to parents andtaking their consideration on
board. You know, it's so easy toforget about the fact that, you
know, we need to put studentsfirst because we can get caught
up in everything that we'redoing, you know, where we have
demands of curriculum andassessment needs, and all those
types of things. So, yeah, it'sabout both of them working

(16:47):
together, isn't

Bex Rose (16:48):
it? Yeah, yeah. So I think that ultimately, the key
to successful coaching andmentoring is building
relationships based on trust,and open communication. And as
leaders, it's our responsibilityto create a culture that values
and supports both coaching andmentoring, I think there's place
for both when I was feelingcoached, I felt the sense of
urgency and pressure to improvespecific skills or achieve

(17:10):
specific goals. And Iappreciated that direct feedback
and accountability that camewith coaching. But at times, it
can be a bit intimidating. Whatwhen I was mentored and coached
through my career, I can sayfrom personal experience is a
big difference of how I wasfilling mentored versus house
coach, I could look to thementor for guidance and support.
I appreciated the wisdom andinsight that came from my

(17:32):
mentors, years of experience,and I often felt inspired or
motivated by our conversation.
So there's definitely there'sdefinitely a need for both the
very valuable in both ways. Andas a leader, I think it's
important to recognize theunique needs of each individual
and provide them with theappropriate support and guidance
to help them grow and develop.

Mark Herring (17:54):
Very cool.
Excellent, thanks. Thanks.
That's great. Cool. All right,Episode 12 bits. What are your
final thoughts before we wrap?
Yeah,

Bex Rose (18:04):
so in this podcast, we looked at the key differences
between coaching and mentoring.
So coaching typically involvesthat short term goal orientated
approach where the coach guidesthe coachee towards achieving
the specific outcome. Whilementoring involves a longer term
relationship focused ondeveloping the mentee skills,
and knowledge and sharingexperiences and offering advice.

(18:25):
So coaching is more directivewith the coach asking questions
and providing feedback. And thementoring is more supportive
with the mentor offeringguidance and acting as a
sounding board. But bothCoaching and Mentoring can be
valuable approaches for personaland professional development.
And understanding thedifferences between the two can
help individuals choose theapproach that best suits their

(18:48):
needs,

Mark Herring (18:51):
if you're after some of the links or resources
that were mentioned, or if youwant to reach out to us, connect
with us, if you want to do somecoaching with us or develop your
own coaches, we'd love to hearfrom you have a look in the show
notes, and you'll see some ofthose links. And also make sure
that you subscribe we publishevery Wednesday, and we're up to
episode 12. Now back to thatmagic 21 number. When they

(19:12):
reached 21, you've reached thetop 1% of all podcasts. So we're
over halfway there. We'regetting there. If you know
someone who'd get some valuefrom this podcast, whether it's
the coaching discussion in thementoring discussion, share the
podcast with them, send them thelink, let them know about it,
retweet some of our socialposts, we'd love to get the word
out there and hit the sharebutton to be able to do that.

(19:34):
And subscribe to us like we saidbefore and lastly, if you have
questions or anything you'd loveto share with us, email us at
team at using technologybetter.com We'd love to hear
from you soon. And one lastlittle call out if you'd like to
jump on a live coaching call ifyou've got some some issues that
you're grappling with, we'd loveto have you on a future segment
of coaching. So we'd love tohear from you as well. See you

(19:56):
all next week. See you later.
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