Ep. 31: Family Constellations...and a little bit of Astrology with Mattie Clark

In this episode I welcome Mattie Clark, my friend and a family constellations facilitator, to explore the intriguing world of family constellations and its connection to astrology, breakups, dating and grieving. 

Episode Transcript

Unknown (00:02):
Alrighty. Righty. Alright, everyone. Welcome back to the Better to Better podcast. I'm really excited today because we have a guest, and the guest happens to be a good friend, Maddie Clark,
and a family constellations
facilitator.
And so she's here today for us to talk all things family constellations,
a little astrology,

(00:24):
as well as things around breakups, dating, grieving,
love, all the things. So I'm gonna hand it over to you, Maddie, to just do a little intro.
Hey. Yay. I'm so glad to be here. I feel like it's been a long time in the making.
Yeah.
So
okay. Yeah. I'm thinking of all the things at once.

(00:47):
First of all, I'll just say that I'm pretty proud of how I've kind of come after many years up with a sort of one liner on what family constellations
is, which is
very hard to explain without just doing it. But it is a way of out picturing

(01:08):
inner images that we have
in
our hearts and minds,
and
it is something where we use people
as representatives
for different parts and different members
of our family system
or another system.

(01:29):
So it's like,
once we do that, we out picture what's inside of us. We can
realize and explore
hidden dynamics
and hidden loyalties.
And it uses
primarily
somatic
body sensations.

(01:49):
So
if I wanna look at something in my system,
I might ask someone to represent my brother.
And then they,
once in representation,
can realize things about the experience of my brother
that maybe I couldn't.
And everyone asks, like, how does that work?

(02:12):
And, really, what we say most is we don't know. We bow to the mystery.
And
there also is the morphogenic
field, which is a sort of quantum,
physics
sort
of thing that is a bit controversial, but essentially that we have a collective

(02:36):
memory and a collective unconscious,
and we can tap into that with intention.
So
yeah.
So
can you,
kind of paint a picture maybe of what a family constellations,
would it be

(02:56):
session or, like, would would how it look? And I know that you've done virtual and in person sessions. Right? So can you describe for people what, like, how this even looks? Is it a group of people who are meeting and stuff like that?
For sure. So, traditionally,
this is done
in person,
in a group of people, in a circle.

(03:18):
We work,
with one person's system, and then other people stand up and start representing
different parts of different people.
So
we can also do this online,
and we can use the Zoom
whiteboard
and start drawing different representation.
So somebody starts representing.

(03:39):
And then, you know, as the facilitator, I ask them where are you on the screen, how big.
In that way
too, it becomes
more
artful and creative because we can change the color and shape of things in an immediate way.
We also do this work one on one for sure.

(04:02):
In person, we can use foam feet,
and then the person doing the work can step in to different representations
with the different foam feet around on the floor,
also can draw it out on Zoom one on one.
Alright. Awesome.
Yeah.
How did you get into
family constellations?

(04:24):
Yeah.
I just before we begin on that, I just had the thought I wanted to share about how
today
we have a full moon in Capricorn.
And
the last time
that we had a full moon in Capricorn

(04:46):
that was not co present or with Pluto at the same time in Capricorn
was
02/2008.
Yes. And that was the year that we graduated from college.
Yes. Yes. So to that, Maddie being being a friend, yes, we went to college together. That's how we met. And so yeah. I mean,

(05:08):
more on that. Like, so what obviously, this is a good vibe situation.
Like, what what is so
what is so great about this reality that, like, 2008 was the last time this happened? What does this all mean?
It means that and I know a bit about your chart too. So I I I know a bit more personally that

(05:31):
before, you know, other than the personal level,
Pluto kinda comes in and it
excavates and evolves,
but it can be a bit of a gauntlet.
So with Pluto out of Capricorn now and it's into Aquarius,
it's out of the same place
where Capricorn is in our charts.

(05:52):
So if you have planets in Capricorn
since 02/2008,
they've been kind of
been going through a Plutonian
sort of gauntlet. So
you and I both have
Mars and Capricorn.
And so Mars being the planet of how we get stuff done and our ambition and how we work and how we get things,

(06:16):
it loves being in Capricorn. It's a gift. It's a gift. There's also a lot of pressure to it,
but
it's just so cool that we have put this together on this day without astrology in mind.
Yeah.
Yeah. And and it's in your house of communication
and communication, third house of communication,

(06:38):
peers,
friends,
and then it's in my house of collaboration.
So it's just, like, all the vibes are aligning,
and it feels like a
a regeneration,
like a clearing regeneration.
Astrology is not or family constellations is not astrology despite the name constellation.

(07:01):
Some people do.
I've done it a couple times, but
they
you can do a constellation of somebody's as astrological
chart, like, representing different planets.
Yeah.
But, yeah, I came to those things that vary separately. But
Yeah.
Awesome. That was a detour. But I think a perfect detour, though, because I

(07:25):
I'm I'm all about I'm all about energy, vibes, feelings, and I talk about how
like, I'm really guided by law of attraction principles, things like that. So things feeling aligned and good energy is big to me. So the fact that we're doing this today like you said, we planned this
today
without the astrology in mind, and yet it turned out. Also, you would also let me know that my birthday, June 26, was, like,

(07:51):
the, I don't know, the best
astroastrication
of the year, and that yeah. I really did that to heart. Did some some manifesting,
morning of. And,
yeah. Yeah. So so Maddie is also my, like,
astrology guru. So
I'm really happy that you're here. Fun.
Fun. We were getting into how you found

(08:13):
Family Constellations. What got you into it?
Yeah.
So
I was first first first introduced to it,
while I was getting trained as a leadership coach in Italy.
One of our trainers
was also a constellator,
and so she brought in just a couple elements of that.

(08:36):
But my first official constellation that I went to,
was actually after a breakup.
I saw,
an Instagram ad for it
and showed up, and
it was so life altering
because I

(08:57):
was the type of person who had a a very hard time accessing my tears
and grieving. Like, I just was always
intellectualizing,
suppressing,
repressing, like, didn't feel safe and comfortable to open up and cry and have that big kind of catharsis.
And when I went to this

(09:19):
family constellations workshop in Brooklyn,
I just was able to
sit
in this tender
weepiness
that was just, yeah,
life altering truly.
So yeah. And then I just attended workshops

(09:41):
for
a year, like, every month. And then the facilitator was like, hey. My teacher is running a training. Maybe you wanna consider it. And I was like, okay. And just
one thing led to another, but it's just
it's been so
wonderful in the sense that it's a really big space that can hold all of me, all of my complexity.

(10:04):
And I feel like I came from a very complex family system,
and so this is a modality that helps
hold all of my complexity and use all sorts of different kinds of gifts in it.
That's awesome. That's awesome. So family constellations
helped you access, it sounds like, your grief,
your Yeah. Emotions

(10:26):
around it all,
the grief around, you know, your breakup. I talk about how, you know, breakups are a are grief and loss. Right? When we hear grief and loss, we often immediately
think death.
But grief and loss applies to any significant loss in our lives. Right? It could be a home, a relationship,
anything
that is significant to you. And so breakups

(10:49):
are a grief and loss process and experience. And,
yeah, I guess
grief, I think, is something that that is,
really helpful to talk about in regards to this idea of breakups,
and then even trying to go on to date.
What is your what has been your experience,

(11:09):
I mean, both personally,
professionally as a facilitator when it comes to processing grief through family constellations?
Yeah. Yeah.
That's so well said.
I think,
yeah, to your point, it's becoming more and more mainstream,

(11:30):
this notion that
the grief is a demonstration
of the love.
Mhmm. It just it shows us how much we we love someone.
And
I think in terms of a breakup,
we

(11:50):
when we are able
to grieve, we're able to
release it because we're able to tap into the parts
that
we loved, and that will help us kinda feel more complete.
And I think
when we think about this in terms of family constellations,

(12:14):
we can think about
the different parts of the grief, and we can acknowledge
what is
in
in a very specific way and just name all of the parts
and pieces
that we miss, that we lost, that we that we grieve.
And that helps us feel more

(12:36):
integrated and and complete.
Yeah. I I love that. Like, I,
you know, I'm always in search of grief,
resources, you know, and and, like, things that people can do
to help them deal with grief and process and family constellations.
It sounds like one like you said, you've in in family constellations for you, you've found it to be a place where all parts of you are being are able to be held. It's yeah. And and that's

(13:06):
that's needed that's needed oftentimes.
Yeah. And it's I think also because
it's held in a field
of either other participants
or bringing in the ancestors
or other resources,
you're not alone.
And that both helps

(13:28):
you feel like there's enough space to grieve, and it helps you feel
safer to grieve
because there's resourcing
and accompaniment
in it.
Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
And
that part of, like, other people bearing witness because, you know, again, with breakups in in particular, I can feel like a very lonely grief experience

(13:53):
because I think there's a lot around that. There are even there's a lot as well of people feeling like
they don't have a right to even grieve certain breakups or, like, this is not a big a big deal. This happens to people all the time, and and so it can be a very lonely experience as well. Right? Even though it's very interesting. Right? Breakups are a very common thing. Most people have multiple in their lifetime. Right? So it happens a lot and yet

(14:17):
can be one of the loneliest experiences when it's happening. Right? And so being able to be in this place where others can bear witness and support, I think, is also a a great factor in in this particular,
resource.
When you talk about
the representations
of different of family systems, something that comes to mind for me,

(14:40):
like, in my personal life is being a part of a blended family now in which there's myself,
my fiance.
He has two boys. I have two boys. We've come together now in a home.
We're a modern day Brady Bunch, I guess you could say. And, like, I am just, like, picturing
those representation

(15:01):
like, the representation
in, like, a family consolation session of, like, these different,
yeah, different family members. Right? And and it's yeah. I just I'm I'm just curious,
about your thoughts on that or if you've had any,
experiences where people have represented
blended or step families or,

(15:24):
yeah,
non nuclear families.
Mhmm. Yeah.
Yeah. It's a good question.
Yeah. A few things come up. I think
one is that family constellations
uses the principles primarily of order and balance.

(15:45):
And so
it's important from a perspective of order
that
who came before
is respected.
So there's a lot the one of the most basic things is that parents come before children, and there's
statements like,

(16:05):
you are the big one. I am the little one. And it's
acknowledging that and also making sure that a parent isn't in front of a child, which would
signify some parentification.
Yeah. So
in respecting the order of who came first, there's a couple things to keep in mind.

(16:27):
One that there's a distinction between a bond and love.
So even if the love shape shifts and, you know, ebbs and wanes and goes away or even kind of ends,
the bond
that is created
when you have kids together can never be deleted, and so that has to be

(16:49):
respected.
And even if there's, like,
minimal
contact between parents just for co parenting,
the the way that the other parent is held within you matters. So it's like,
because of that bond, you hold a place for them in your heart is what we say. Like, they always have a place.

(17:14):
Otherwise, the kids get confused and have to, you know, choose a loyalty to one parent or the other.
Interesting.
Yeah. So
yeah.
That is very interesting. So it's kind of like you
you like, if you're in a co parenting situation,

(17:36):
you being able to, like you said, hold
space, maybe embody,
the other parent in certain ways is a helpful way for your children to be able to
exist
peacefully in that dynamic, I guess. So, like, because they they don't have to feel torn.
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So there's kind of an expression of, yes. You do have to stay together for the kids, like, even after divorce.

(18:04):
Mhmm. Like, not living together, not besties. But Right. Bonded together in some way.
Yeah. Yeah. And I like what you said about,
like, embodying a part of them. Like, I didn't think about it that way, but, yeah, that is
that's true.
And so,
yeah, continually

(18:26):
considering
that. And and one thing we have
we have said often
in Family Constellations workshops
with this issue
is that
a sort
of like, when two people are standing in representation,
a parent saying to their child,

(18:48):
you know, when I look at you,
I remember
your dad,
and
I love that. And so that sort
of recognition
and acknowledgment,
that,
yeah, there's still a profound respect there.
Right. Even if the love has been really mangled, like, there's respect.

(19:12):
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.
K. Yeah. That's powerful.
I'm I'm seeing also so, yeah, how family consolations can be used in this
processing,
you know, for for children of a breakup. And Yeah.
Exactly.
So
in the in the realm of of or in the idea of moving, like, from breakups into,

(19:37):
as I like to say, dating better the next time around. Right? So processing your grief and healing from breakups
and going into
forming new romantic relationships.
Something that you and I were chatting about, you know, in preparation for our conversation today was, the idea of, like,
speed dating and Mhmm.
Like, you know, thoughts on that in terms of family constellations. You'd made you'd made a statement that I found interesting about this idea of, like,

(20:07):
meeting different parts of yourself in other people. And and I was just really yeah. I thought that was really interesting and wanted to hear more about that from your perspective.
Yeah. I think,
yeah, I I've been to a few speed dating events and find them really
fun.

(20:29):
And I think,
we can use those
experiences.
It doesn't have to be speed dating. It can also be dating in the way that you talk about how to date, not the mainstream
way that we
talk about dating. But,
like, just really I guess I mean that in the quantity. Like, keeping your options more open and lighter for longer,

(20:54):
you know, is is kind of not what the mainstream says. But so I feel like a speed dating experience is a mini version of what you suggest for people. It's like Right. Keeping it alive and fresh and open. And
and so,
yeah, I just went to a speed dating event once, and I think there were eight different dates. And just in each one of those

(21:18):
many dates,
I just
experienced
some sort
of old dynamic
from a different relationship
or some part of myself that I hadn't properly
integrated and loved within myself.
And so I think that's
very much what a constellation is. It's like, oh, there's a part that hasn't been properly seen and witnessed and loved

(21:44):
and welcomed in.
And I think in that, we can
complete
old
agreements,
and and come to little kind of microcosmic
orbits
of closure.
Like, oh, that reminds me of that
and finding peace with that and then moving on

(22:07):
Mhmm. If that makes sense.
Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. Like, I
something that's coming to mind is is is in thinking about dating, whether it's a speed date, which I think you can see this happen
more immediately.
But even if it's just, you know, traditional dates, date go on a date with this person, then a date with this person,

(22:30):
Like, it being almost like a real world version of a family constellation session almost where, like, you're like, when you're talking about this idea of, like, being able to complete things by you know, when you
see a part of yourself in your conversation with this guy on the date and then you see a a different part with this guy on the date, there's, like, some, I don't know, some some family constellation

(22:52):
stuff going on in the moment in in
a real world setting, I guess, you could say. Mhmm.
Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think for me, you know,
like, one of the biggest things was,
like, the the practice of saying no,
of not being like, well, I don't wanna

(23:14):
reject someone. I don't really know them.
You know, I might have a initial instinct, but, you know, maybe I'm projecting.
And so for me,
you can tell by the way that I'm talking about it too, like, the quantity of it and the sort of, like,
that was really,
really helpful for me to practice no. Like, just on instinct. Like, no FOMO. Just like, no.

(23:41):
I don't agree to this. Constellations is a lot about agreement and what you agree to and,
walking away when the agreement is no longer working.
Yeah. I have thoughts on that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell me. The walking away when the agreements are no longer working. I mean okay.

(24:03):
That hits at
such a, like, core sorry. Like, I'm I'm like because I'm literally my my mind is expanding into different things as I'm as I'm saying this. So, like, I'm, like, trying to process that because I'm thinking about, like, oh, this this in and of itself is a a podcast topic and stuff like that. This idea of

(24:24):
agreements.
I'm gonna work backwards here a little bit. So one of the biggest issues that I think happens,
this applies to breakups and dating. Let's take it to the to to dating. Or we'll start with breakups because now we're in dating. So with breakups,
my point is is that relationships ending
because
agreements get broken or

(24:45):
we realize we've agreed to some
agreements
that don't work for us either anymore or never did. And this brings up the idea of social contracts, which I talk about here and there.
I've definitely brought up a couple of times on the podcast. Like, I don't know that I've done a full episode on the idea of a social contract. But the reality is is your relationship with any other human, a friend, a a parent,

(25:09):
a romantic
relationship,
etcetera,
is based on these different social agreements.
The thing that's tricky about that, though, is or I should say it's based on a social contract. And the thing that's so so, tricky about social contracts is that unlike legal contracts where we sit down, like, at a table or, you know, whatever on Zoom,

(25:29):
and we, like, talk about and write out point for point what the terms of that that contract are for a business purpose, for a marriage, for whatever. Right? It's very explicit.
It's very back and forth. Do you agree to this? No. I don't agree to that. Or I wanna compromise on this. Like, there's a lot of explicit,
agreement.
So,

(25:49):
generally speaking, both parties or all parties
can at least see and and know what they are agreeing to.
Mhmm. In social contracts,
those are constantly being written just based on our interactions with other people.
There are times when there are explicit conversations about certain things, for sure,
But so much of the relation of of the dynamics that you have in any relationship of any kind, but let's just say romantic relationships for the purposes, you know, today,

(26:18):
so much of that
is not explicitly discussed.
It is you end up signing
the agreement
based on your continued behavior
around any given thing. Right? Someone does something and how you respond to that and how you continue to respond to that kinda you're like, okay. I'm I'm up for this. You can think of it as of

(26:40):
partner cheats on partner one cheats on partner two. Partner two turns their you know, turns a blind eye to it and keeps on trucking. They have signed an agreement that partner one can keep doing this thing. Now partner two may feel all kinds of ways about it. They may give partner one trouble
about it, but they have agreed to stay in the relationship while this person does this, at least for now. Right? And that

(27:04):
happens without any conversation oftentimes. Like, none. Literally, like, I
people can pretend like they didn't even see it. They don't know it existed. Right? All the way up to you you can talk about it. It might be like, how could you do this to me? And they they stay and they
all these things. Right? And so,
what really hit me when you were saying the agreements piece is that that is one of the things that is so so moving it to dating, that is so

(27:29):
big for me when talking with women about dating
just
better. And in my mind, better is more effectively, more efficiently, and more enjoyably. It's all of those things. Right?
Is that
these agreements that
you're agreeing to like, their their terms the the terms of the agreement are terms that so many women are ultimately not happy with, and they keep keep signing and it keeps signing and keep signing.

(27:56):
And
the issue is with that is
you then set up
these dynamics, whether intentionally or unintentionally,
that you end up not being happy with, and then you're so far in emotionally, financially, logistically
in a relationship
or a situation

(28:17):
that it it it's a harder thing to get out of. So I'm big on the whole one of the main reasons why you want to actually date before you enter a committed relationship is so that you can be seeing the different terms of the contract that are being offered to you, and you can sort and say if you're like, no. Cross that line out. I I wanna amend this part. Oh, this one thrown this one out completely. No. Thank you. I'm not interested. Right? Like

(28:38):
but you gotta be dating. The dating is the, like, negotiation
process.
You know? The dating is the sitting at the table and saying, here are my terms. What are your terms? Where do we compromise? That is the dating part,
which comes before the committed relationship, which is when you sign a contract, and you're like, yeah. We're in we're in this business deal together. We're we're doing this thing. Right? But there's so much of just

(28:59):
having, like,
one
one conversation, one a couple of first dates or a a date or two, and then be like, yeah. Contract signed. We're good. We're we're in this thing. And then as you have already signed the contract, which you are now legally you know, you are bound to. Right? You start realizing, well, I don't like this term. I don't like this term. Oh, that term is not cool for me. And the person's like, well, I mean, you signed it. I mean, what do you want from me? Right? It's that whole thing. And so I just that yeah. When you we talked about the agreements part. I'm like,

(29:28):
yeah. Like,
agreements.
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I love what you said about
just, like, how many things
come up that we agreed to, and we're not really aware of them.
And so I think what constellations

(29:49):
can do is it can bring
awareness and acknowledgment
to all those dynamics,
and then a dyad is one on one. And so when you bring in a group and a field, it breaks up a dynamic.
It
it allows it to be revealed. It just, like, breaks up all of that patterning.

(30:11):
Yeah. And it's just
yeah. The reinforcement
of
bad agreements,
unhealthy dynamics
is something that I think we've only begun to talk about.
Yeah. And and women, you know, were
mostly just property

(30:32):
until, like, yesterday.
So
Every time I hear the the fact that so I before
before,
you know, the the podcast, the day before our conversation, we're I was letting you know that last night, I went to this event,
where Candace Bushnell, who is the writer
for the books Sex and the City, she was the column she wrote the columns for the New York Observer,

(30:57):
which turned into the book. And then as
everyone should know at this point, the book became the series Sex and the City and on and on and on.
She grew up in the sixties, and she,
when every time I knew this, but every time I hear it, she made the statement. She's like, and, you know,
you know, women weren't allowed to have their own bank accounts and credit cards. So 1974,

(31:18):
'74,
1974,
1974.
And, like,
it is just, like, every time, it's such a punch in the face.
It's like, what?
Yeah. Yeah. And it and it's particularly interesting to think of a woman like her in that context because when she

(31:39):
started to like,
like, yes. I know that
she was so I think she's 66.
I think it said online. But I so I knew she was older. Right? But then, like, to really put it into the context that when she was growing up,
she remembers. So she was talking about how she was eight when she realized she wanted to be a writer. She was pushing against the idea that at that time, women could only be librarians, teachers, nurses, and there's a fourth one that she mentioned. She's like and and at that very young age, she was like, what? That doesn't make sense.

(32:11):
And but to see
the type of,
you know, just successful, independent, driven, ambitious person she is today and knowing that she was coming up in her prime,
you know,
when women couldn't have credit cards or bank accounts is just wild.
Yeah. The Mad Men era too. Yes. 60. Right?

(32:32):
Yes.
God.
Yeah.
Yeah. And I think
we need
we need
help and community and support
to usher in a new paradigm.
So I'm
so excited
for your dating
stuff, content groups because, like, I need it. Like, I doing it alone is not Yeah. Is not super

(32:57):
is not super easy.
Yeah. There was something else I was gonna say.
Oh, it was another astrology thing, but I don't wanna derail us again. Oh, no. Put it out there. That's what we're here for today. We got a little bit of everything.
Yes.
Just that,

(33:19):
you know, Pluto is the generational
planet.
So millennials have Pluto in Scorpio.
And so there's a lot in our generation
about
uncovering
abusive
power dynamics
across the board.
And then when we have,

(33:40):
Pluto
right now having gone into Aquarius, that's
where our Pluto.
And so
this era of our life
where Pluto is square is, like, the peak of our
our mission,
our gift,
our
contribution.

(34:01):
And when Pluto went to Aquarius, it opposed
Pluto and Leo, which is the boomers.
So there's a bit of a, like, when Pluto opposes, it's like time to, like,
settle down,
sit down, let somebody else take over,
which we haven't seen yet. But maybe maybe when the millennials

(34:21):
join forces and rise more with our mission
Mhmm. They'll they'll take a seat. But, yeah, I was just thinking about that because we're talking about history here and power
and
yeah. So just bringing that in.
Yeah. Yeah. And and all the dynamics
that that creates. Another thing that Candice mentioned, Candice Bushnell men mentioned in her show yesterday was just, like, the ways in which patriarchy

(34:49):
push women into
playing roles that they don't actually want to play.
In this context, it came up
in relation to something around
pretty much how how women, you know,
use sex or,
to gain access to power through men who have money and power, etcetera.

(35:12):
We're talking about, like, the Samantha
character,
you know, and
versus the Charlotte character and all this sort of thing, which she explained, you know, it's just, like, she she she was like, I had many, many girlfriends. For TV, you can't have many, many girlfriends. You have to have, like there have to be four four types Yes. Saying how, like, I had, you know, all of those women. And, actually, she said on a podcast episode of, that I was listening to today that most of her friends

(35:36):
were more Samantha's.
But, anyway, what she was that was just a little fun fact. Yeah.
But she was saying that whole idea of, like, how how, yeah, patriarchy pushes,
you know, women to play certain roles because, you know, access
to survival, to, you know,
security and and all of those sort of things. And

(35:57):
and then just
then how that filters into how
we date, how people date, how
do you form romantic relationships?
It's very Yeah. Very interesting.
Yeah. Yeah. There's really no,
downtrodden
path for us

(36:19):
to exist
in a new way. It's more like we've
crumbled,
you know, structures that are
unfair and imbalanced, and there's not really
we have to create it together. Like, it hasn't been set out for us. Like, our
our mother's generation, for the most part, like, you know, it's just such a different

(36:43):
world.
And so
we we don't
wanna follow that model, but it's very
anxiety inducing to not have
elders
that can Yeah. Pave the way.
Yeah. Absolutely.
Totally.
Yeah. Well,

(37:05):
this isn't I love this conversation because it's gone off into different branches Yeah. For the number of things.
But, yeah, I mean, are there
anything any other things that are top of mind for you or that you kinda want to lead with, and they don't have to be, but I just want to make sure I'm giving you the floor,
to

(37:26):
share anything else that maybe I haven't touched on or that you think is
interesting or helpful on this.
I
think so. I just I wanna maybe just highlight
how we came to
this place about the importance of agreements and dynamics
and making them conscious,
making them visible,

(37:48):
speaking directly about them,
allowing them to come to a completion,
grieving
the parts that we lost, that we miss.
Yeah. I just I feel inspired
too. I just
yeah. I love

(38:09):
I love where we went, I guess, is what I wanna say.
I I agree. I agree.
And to what you just said about, like,
speaking the agreements, making them conscious, yeah, that that is a very good way of putting it. That that leads me to the whole exclusivity conversation that I'm always pushing women to have when they've decided that they want to exclusively date this person, you know, move from casually dating to exclusively dating. And that's, like, the big thing so many

(38:34):
women are afraid of. It's like, I I can't have that conversation. I don't wanna have the comfort of why I can't which I guess is a whole other conversation in and of itself as to why we feel that way, what our fears are around it.
But
to not
is just so risky. It's so risky because that's how you end up signing up for,
you know, things that you are not actually okay with. You know?

(38:56):
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess it's
primarily
the fear of loss, the fear of of losing
that person.
Right? I mean Yeah.
Mhmm.
Yeah. Rejection,
being seen as a crazy woman,
like, all of these things are are things that Yeah.
Oh, that's a that's a rich topic too.

(39:19):
Like, maybe we can come back and talk about that. Like yeah.
I'm totally as the crazy woman. That's fun. Totally open to that. We're gonna put it on the docket. Literally making myself a note. I need to we brainstorm
that.
Yeah. Yes. Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Absolutely. This has been wonderful.

(39:40):
I love that we were able to do this. I can't wait to share with,
the podcast audience. And, yeah, we very well may be back.
Okay. Thanks so much, Tracy.
Absolutely.
Bye.