February 12, 2025 • 54 mins
Dom L'Amour speaks with Friend of the show J Boogie AKA Jon Butts AKA @jonbuttsishere!
Can Kendrick Lamar's lyrical genius outshine Drake's chart-topping dominance? Join us on the Black Man Talking Emotions podcast as we navigate this intricate rivalry with our insightful guest, Jon Butts. We'll revisit the explosive moment Kendrick's "control" verse shook the hip-hop world and dissect how the tension between these two titans illuminates the fine line between pure artistry and commercial success. While unpacking their professional dynamics, we also weigh in on public perceptions of other influential figures like Young Thug and Sexy Red, offering fresh insights into the ever-evolving hip-hop landscape.
In our heartfelt exploration of Kendrick Lamar's discography, we celebrate the monumental impact of albums like "To Pimp a Butterfly" and "Good Kid, M.A.A.D City," sharing personal reflections on their storytelling prowess. The conversation takes a critical turn as we scrutinize Drake's reliance on ghostwriters, particularly in "Take Care," and question how this practice measures up against the self-written standards set by hip-hop legends like LL Cool J and Rakim. With comparisons to Kanye West's "Graduation," we ponder the balance between mainstream appeal and thematic depth in contemporary hip-hop.
Bringing warmth and personal touch, we shift to notable moments within the hip-hop community, examining Drake's relationship with Lil Wayne and the broader cultural impact of events like Kendrick's Super Bowl performance. We also consider the influence of hip-hop on personal identities and cultural narratives, reflecting on the communal spirit of the Los Angeles Lakers and the legacies of Kobe Bryant and Nipsey Hussle. From artistic beefs to independent music endeavors, this episode captures the essence of hip-hop's vibrant culture, its challenges, and its ongoing evolution.
Opening quote: Kendrick Lamarr
Opening and Closing Theme song: Produced by Dom L'Amour
Transition Music from Mad Chops Vol. 1 and Mad Chops Vol. 2 by Mad Keys
and
from Piano Soul Vol.1(Loop Pack) by The Modern Producers Team
Featured song: "Valentines Day" By Dom L'Amour
Cover art by Studio Mania: Custom Art @studiomania99
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
how does?
Where does that line blur?
Where does it become?
Black and white is, and then itbecomes.
It becomes that business thing.
When you look through the lensof business it's like, yeah, man
, you've just been positioningyourself to ingratiate your own
bank account.
Yeah, like you could give twoshits if young thug gets locked
(00:20):
up.
You give two shits about theperception of sexy red and
whatever it's.
It's empty.
That's where it feels like alittle empty I want to give.
I want to give drake a littlebit of credit, because I have, I
have tried to be a fan of his,but he makes it really really
really hard.
(00:41):
Yeah, really really really hard.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, and anyone else who is here, my
name is Don Lamour and you arelistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast.
On today's episode, I speakwith a friend of the show, john
Butts, about Kendrick Lamar'shistoric shakedown of Drake and
the state of hip hop right now.
If my edge is dull, my sword isdull, and I don't want to fight
(01:15):
another guy whose sword is dull.
If you've got two steel swordsgoing back and forth hitting
each other, what's going tohappen?
And back and forth hitting eachother, what's going to happen?
Both of them are going to getsharper.
Everybody that's in theindustry has lost their edge.
Normally, you and I would betalking babies, we'll be talking
(01:39):
politics, stuff that is, youknow, absolutely depressing
right now.
So, so, other than babies,babies are great.
How are the babies doing?
Babies are good.
Yeah, that's good.
The babies.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm not the babies aren't depressing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The world right now is depressing, and I feel like
every time I talk about it I geta little bit more kind of
uneasy.
So instead of doing that to youthis time, I want to give you a
fun episode.
It's Black History Month we outhere living.
So to avoid all of thatcompletely, I want to talk about
(02:16):
the real news.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Kendrick Lamar won five Grammys.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh man, let's go.
He called Drake a PDF file,called Drake a PDF file and the
audience sang A minor as heaccepted the record of the year
(02:39):
Grammy.
I would love to just do a deepdive into the history of this
beef and your feelings anddifferent things that you feel
about this.
I just feel like it's necessary.
He performed at the Super Bowl.
I need to really process how hejust destroyed Drake and I want
to know how you feel.
So go ahead and take it away.
How do you feel about what'sgoing on?
I hear it's called theShakespearean shakedown that he
(03:01):
did.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I haven't heard that one yet, but that's real yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Justin Hunt.
Shout out to Justin Hunt.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's my guy.
It's all happening.
One second applause.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One second applause, yes.
How do you feel abouteverything that's going on?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
with this beef.
There's a little distance forme, because I think that he hit
all of the high points and whenI say this man is on his 10th
victory lap, it don't make nosense.
It's like I don't know wherethe entry point is for this
conversation.
But so let's just no.
(03:33):
No, we're doing a completeoverview of everything.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Okay, everything, even this.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We can go as far back as the poetic justice I mean I
don't know the specifics ofwhere the parting ways mentally
happened.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It was control.
Oh, okay, yeah, control.
But I feel like it was beforecontrol because you brought up
poetic justice.
As I've digested it, there wasDrake bringing Kendrick into the
fold, so to speak.
Yeah, he was on tour with himGiving him that boost and he
kind of just saw how the sausagegot made at OVO.
He was like you gotta bekidding me.
(04:10):
You talk about this.
I've been out here in theprojects rap battling.
I went from K-Dot trying to dothese Lil Wayne type verses to
like no, I'm shedding thatmoniker, and like really
becoming an artist and we overhere doing kind of recycled,
just reference tracks and allthat, at least to my
(04:33):
understanding.
That's where Kendrick'sperspective on Drake shifted.
Now the control verse man, Iremember where I was.
I was in Virginia working forColonial Williamsburg Shout out
to them, they're doing greatwork in the apartment.
And I was.
I was in Virginia working forColonial Williamsburg Shout out
to them, they're doing greatwork in the apartment.
And I was like okay, I'mhearing buzz about this control
verse, let me just put it on.
I usually be homies with thesame niggas I'm rhyming with
(05:00):
yeah, and to me that's the sport, if you're not in it, to kind
of have that back and forth andspar a little bit with your
contemporaries, then youshouldn't be in it.
A lot of people took that instride.
A lot of people tried to writetheir own response verses.
It didn't really make a splashfor many other people other than
(05:21):
Drake and you fast forward.
Was it the BET cypher freestyle?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
oh yeah tuck the sensitive rapper back in his
pajama clothes like and everyoneknew who he was talking about,
because Drake did that interviewand he was talking to the guy
like it was a good moment, butlike let me ask you, uh, how
does that verse start?
And the whole audience burstinto laughing and it was like if
(05:47):
I was Kendrick and I saw thatI'd have been like, oh, I'm
taking him out, I'm totallytaking him out because he was so
petty and then he tried to givehim backhanded little.
Well, he's a fantastic artist.
You know what I'm saying.
But you know I think aboutworks of art.
You know what I'm saying.
I really focus on doing fullprojects.
You know and this is comingfrom a guy I'm not sure how you
(06:09):
feel about it, but I don't thinkhe has a classic album
personally Ooh, okay.
The only one.
If you were like what is aclassic, I would say so Far Gone
.
And that was a mixtape, wow,wow.
And the reason why I say it isbecause that truly was his hype
to me.
He did that and his hype was inthe atmosphere at that point,
because at that point you hadLil Wayne taking over the world.
(06:32):
He was the best rapper aliveand Lil Wayne allowed this dude
to be on so many songs with himthat when you listened to him
you were like, hey, he's hangingwith Lil Wayne.
Lil Wayne's the best rapperalive.
He must be great.
And that's the only reason whyhe got out the door.
If he wasn't rhyming next toLil Wayne, he wouldn't have been
(06:52):
pushed to where he was pushed,because Lil Wayne literally was
selling a million records a weekRight but the cosigns are
important, you know, and thatthat kind of circles back to the
Kendrick attachment a littlebit For me.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I can't, where the debate happens, take care for me
.
Yes Is nothing was the same, aclassic question mark.
A lot of people say, yes, I'mkind of on the fence.
It's been a while and I haven'tlistened to it enough recently
to be able to make a call onthat.
But Drake, I watched a littlebit of the 100 gigs because it
(07:26):
was post the beef a little bit.
I had some distance from thecatastrophe that happened for
him.
I wasn't throwing a pity partybecause I don't really hold
Drake up in that high of anesteem at this point, but I was
curious, what was this?
And you kind of see the Ovofactory and you see the exchange
(07:46):
of the ideas and you can seethat Drake really cares about
this music stuff.
But it's more so his non-bodyof workness post those two
albums I just mentioned To me.
Where Drake started to falterwas after Nothing Was the Same,
where it became.
I'm this algorithmic artist, Iam the hit maker.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Therefore I have to cater to the wave, I'm going to
make mixtapes and playlistsinstead of albums.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
You can play that in the hookah bar, you can play
that at brunch, but as studentsof hip hop, that only goes so
far.
Hip hop started with a messageand that's what Kendrick said at
the Grammys in his speech Likethis is our craft.
Hip hop made this and you haveto be a student of this.
You got to love this.
This is the culture.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
The question I ask people when they tell me Take
Care is a classic you have GoodKid Mad City, you have Pimple
Butterfly Damn, Just those three.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Where does Take Care rank with those three albums?
That's a good question.
I think this depends on theKendrick fan that you're
speaking to, because I thinkthere's a sliding, or those
three albums change slotsdepending upon who you are.
I'm a person who maybe revisitsGood Kid Mad City the least, so
I would say those two albumsare in a similar weight class.
(09:06):
But Take Care is a sophomorealbum, whereas Good Kid Mad City
is a mainstream debut.
And I do give Drake some creditfor iterating off of Thank Me
Later, because that was overlypoppy and overly catering.
He was using an old formulathat didn't really work at that
(09:27):
time.
He was kind of using like thejay-z or whomever formula where
you craft your album based onthe hit maker, producers and
names, whereas take care got himcloser to that ovo sound, that
toronto sound, but also shoutout tond, because he's kind of
pioneering that cold, ominousfeeling and he wrote half of
that album Exactly.
(09:47):
But I hear you.
I hear you.
I'm not here to say thatbecause so Far Gone is such a
good mixtape.
Yes, and it was at the tail end.
We're closing the curtain onthe blog era and we're entering
the streaming era, I would saythat might have been the last
great mixtape.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Honestly, I feel that I have to double check when
friday night lights came out.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But around the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, I know they came, but like if it came out
afternoon it wasn't the last one, because friday night lights I
listened to that last night.
Wow, I still bump that becauseit's on apple music now.
Okay, so it's too deep for theintro Got to come through at
least once or twice.
I always ask that because in myhead, with what I just saved
you those three albums and Iinclude Mr Morale or GNX,
because it would be even worsewith those in there, because I
(10:34):
love those albums too.
I personally, the first time Iheard To Pimp a Butterfly, I
remember listening all the waythrough it and I'd never done
this with any album ever in mylife.
I finished the album afterMortal man.
Hearing Tupac's conversationwith Kendrick, I turned it off.
I stopped because I think Ilistened to the CD and I was
(10:54):
like I think that's the greatesthip hop album I've ever heard
in my life.
I still remember saying thatout loud to myself.
I think that's the best albumI've ever listened to.
It was mind-blowing how goodthat was and, granted, over the
years it got to a point where Ididn't listen to it a lot.
But now I go back and I'm likeI don't know why I don't listen
to this as much as I do, becauseI really love this album.
So that's number one easily.
(11:15):
It's not even a discussion forme.
Good, kid Mad City's number twoI revisit that one all the time
and see I'm different than you.
I just feel like thestorytelling and the production
that Dre did on that album isflawless.
And then Damn is the next one.
Take Care is on the list for me.
I understand why people lovedit.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It had some hits, but as a full project I don't
really like the Weeknd, so thatmight also add to it, yeah, and
I think where it gets harder forme to speak to this
retrospective a little bit isbecause I'm so contemporary
minded yeah, like I will chasewhat's new over enjoying what
used to be.
(11:56):
Yeah, I remember the vibes thatI was feeling when To Pimp a
Butterfly came out too, and justfeeling so like this is a
transcendent record.
This is Quincy Jones levelenshrined in music history level
.
Project Good Kid Mad City isvery cinematic when I think
(12:19):
about it and the storytelling isimpeccable from front to back.
As a concept Damn to me kind ofrolled back a little bit of the
loftiness of both of thoseattempts, was able to deliver
some of those themes in amainstream way and made those
themes palatable for amainstream audience.
(12:41):
Everything is there.
I think it has a little bitmore of a edge to it.
This is him having thosesuccesses with Good Kid Maddie
City and To Pimp a Butterfly,and now he's kind of
retrospecting on his success andit becomes a little bit more
introspective for him.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
To jump on that, a comparison that I always do when
it comes to those three albums.
I always feel like damn isKendrick's graduation by Kanye
West, because by the time he gotto that album, kanye's whole
purpose was to make this as bigas stadiums.
He wanted to be able to dothese songs and it sound
incredible in stadiums.
(13:17):
That's how he was thinkingabout making it so big.
So it was more mainstream.
It was more of that like uh,and I felt like Damn was the
same way.
I mean the single for that isHumble.
You hear that Humble.
It hits way different thananything else that he's played
on any of his other albums.
So I agree with you and, like Isaid, we don't have to stay on
this.
I understand the idea of Drakeand everyone's going to have
(13:40):
different perspectives when itcomes down to it, but for me, as
a person who loves the art formand it is an art form that is
very specific.
Other places, like countrymusic, they don't care if you
write your own music.
As long as you sang good,that's all that matters.
People try to put Drake in thehip hop world when they want him
there and then they try toexcuse him just because they
(14:02):
like him To say that he's thebest rapper, does he write all
of his stuff?
Take care, we've literallyheard we can wrote half of that
album.
Right, if that's his onlyclassic album and he didn't even
write it, why is he even beingconsidered in this discussion?
And that breaks my heartbecause it doesn't really matter
.
Everyone's going to like whatthey like.
(14:24):
But in my head it's like as ahip hop fan LL Cool J didn't
have people writing his songs.
Rakim didn't have peoplewriting his songs.
Krs-one did not have peoplewriting his songs.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
In the 90s, one of the main media touchstones about
hip hop was oh, look at all ofmy books of rhymes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
my notebooks yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, no, I 100% see what you mean there, and that's
where the line gets blurry.
It's not even blurry at thispoint, it's overt.
But Drake was able to use hiphop to be a pop artist able to
(15:07):
use hip hop to be a pop artist.
While he has the capabilitiesand certainly has done his
diligence in being able to rap,it's just not from the same
place.
It's like he's an outsider tosome degree yeah, and see what
you're saying right there.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I just had this discussion with someone, the the
other day where it made me feellike he used the Lil Wayne for
his clout, got the clout anddisrespected Lil Wayne.
I mean, literally, kendrickcalled it out and it's so true.
Like you don't do that topeople that you respect.
So it's obvious he's over thetop about how great of a person
(15:41):
he is.
He thinks he's so good that hecan do whatever he wants and
treat people who literally gavehim a career.
Lil Wayne co-signing him is theonly reason why we know who
Drake is, doesn't matter whatyou say, it doesn't matter how
talented he is.
Lil Wayne said he was dope.
We all love Lil Wayne.
Drake was the next one up andthen Baby was like screw you,
(16:06):
lil Wayne, you can't releasemusic anymore.
I'm going to pump up Drake.
And Drake became the biggestone.
That's what happened.
And so what you're saying,right there, is true.
He was an outsider.
He's this dude from Canada whocame in and he was singing Trey
Songz tunes and then he did acouple of tunes where he was
(16:26):
rapping and people loved his rap, and now he's claiming he's the
best rapper, like Lil Wayne.
And it's like Lil Wayne writesall his raps.
Lil Wayne, can I'll rap you now?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Lil Wayne was the one to tell him when he was
starting to blow up.
It was like, just don't try todo any of that hard stuff Like
you're from Canada, bro, youwere on the, you were on the
grassy.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Keep it kind of lovey dovey almost.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And it sucks Cause.
I think back to the troll and Iremember I've always been on
the outside of this.
Wale was my guy and J Cole wasmy guy and J Cole was my guy,
and Wale fell off real fast.
I will fully admit, the lastproject I liked of Wale's before
the album about nothing.
Because that was the nextproject.
(17:13):
I was like that's actually agood project, but more about
nothing.
The mixtape was like the firstthing that I fell in love with
and he had a couple of goodtracks on Ambition and different
things, but like he didn'treally do anything after that he
has a couple of singles.
That's about it.
J Cole, of course, is a part ofthe big three, and I still call
him a part of the big three.
(17:34):
In my opinion, he'll always besynonymous with these three
people.
I remember hearing Controlbeing like oh man, those are my
guys.
It's dope that that Kendricksaid that, but I still would.
But when Drake came out and hewas talking about all of that
stuff, it was like, oh man, Idon't know if I like him anymore
(17:55):
.
I remember Control was when Istopped really liking Drake,
because before that he couldn'tmiss with me.
At first, like you, though, hisalbums weren't great when he
was on the Young Money album,and he did the Flintstones song.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
song Every Girl in the World.
Yeah, yeah, it was like thatright there.
That verse was crazy and I waslike man, this dude is dope.
He has so much swag he kills it.
And we moved forward.
He was more on that backpacktype of rap at that point too
yeah, and I will say one song,like I would say the peak of
drake, in my opinion, would havebeen sicko mode.
(18:31):
When sicko mode came out, thatwas the first time I was like,
okay, I get it, this dude isincredible and this song is good
because of drake.
Travis scott killed it on.
There'm not going to say hedidn't, but the lines that you
remember are the ones Drake saidChecks over stripes.
That's what I like, like you,only remember Drake's parts I
(18:55):
repeat his parts over and overfrom that song, and so I
remember that being incredible.
But I still didn't give him thecrown.
And when fast forwardinging,when first person shooter mode
came out, oh my god, it's soincredible to see what's
happened since then.
I remember hearing big as asuper bowl and j cole clearly
(19:17):
outshining drake on that song.
Right, clearly it was thenumber one song in the country
and I was like j cole.
The reason why?
Because he was so good on thattrack.
And then Drake had his I'mabout to part at the end where
he switches it up and he makesit seem like he's so hard on the
drill beat or whatever, andit's like what is he doing?
Like literally he ruined themood of the song at the end of
(19:40):
the song and I was like ugh,he's not what he I mean.
Mean, the idea that this songis such a big hit isn't because
of him.
It's because of because of jaycole killing it.
And who's the biggest artist?
Mc me, aubrey or kendrick likethat?
That line is the thing that youremember.
We did big three, like westarted to leave.
But right now I feel likemuhammad ali, like I'm like,
(20:00):
yeah, jay cole is old.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
the end of spider-Man meme line.
Yes, the Spider-Man meme is melooking at Drake.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's like okay, and that was the thing it was like.
If you're saying that kind ofstuff, maybe you are taking
Kendrick out of it, and so to gofull circle, where they start
the song saying Biggest SuperBowl and then Kendrick is the
only one out of the three ofthem to actually perform at the
(20:29):
Super Bowl.
He's already done it.
He's already performed at theSuper Bowl.
People have to remember thatthis isn't his first time
performing at the Super Bowl,but they made a song saying
Biggest Super Bowl when healready had performed at the
Super Bowl and now he's doinghis own set at the Super Bowl.
Well, he done it and killed it.
The pop out the video.
The video like I could go onand like the idea album release,
(20:53):
the oh my god, gnx.
All 12 songs were the top ofthe list.
Each song on this album was topof the list.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
That never, never in history, has someone had one,
two, three, four, five on analbum like that that's where
they try to get them, thoughthey always try to get them at
numbers, but numbers matter to adegree, but it's always been
the quality and the craft at theend of the day.
With gnx if we're just touchingon that, you marry the numbers
(21:23):
with the listenability, with thela sort of community building
aspect of gnx doing somethingthat everyone said he couldn't
do make a la focused album,something that's not
heavy-handed come on.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And when I tell you gnx was my most listened to
album last year and it came outin December.
It is true, it came out inDecember and it was my most
listened to album.
Dude, it was on repeat.
It reminded me of victory lapokay, that's a fair comparison
that felt like GNX.
(22:00):
Gnx felt like that because whenyou're in LA and you listen to
Victory Lap anywhere you at,doesn't matter what part of it
if you put your window down andsomeone is in the car next to
you, they're like that is analbum that everyone respects on
the West Coast.
And GNX that Dodger Bluedriving down Sepulveda.
(22:21):
I can only imagine how it is inLA listening to that album.
But I go back.
That's going to be the firstthing that hey Now say now Are
you serious?
This album was so unique and itwas also him, just purely just
demonstrating.
This is how good I am.
(22:42):
Y'all think I can't do like hitshere's hits for you.
Y'all think I can't do somesoft lovey-dovey stuff?
Here's Luther for you.
I can't do like hits here'shits for you.
Y'all think I can't do somesoft lovey-dovey stuff?
Here's Luther for you.
Like I can do all of this and Ican do squabble up and I could
do whacked out murals.
A literally six minute songstarting the album, talking
crazy about everyone withoperatic Spanish, and you stay
(23:06):
in it.
You don't lose.
You don't lose any steamthroughout the entire album.
By the time you get the TV off,you'd already been bumping so
much you almost tired, and thenit brings you back.
You're like, oh my God.
And then the worst part is allthe songs that we've said hey,
now, say, now is the only onethat might be competing for my
favorite song, but the hard partsix is maybe my favorite.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I don't know what my favorite song is, because it's
so fucking good yeah, theflowers, giving the flowers a
sensitive it's, it's an homage,it's like it's got some remnants
of the mr morale and sort ofthat transparency.
Yeah, the gmX is insane and Ilisten to that album like I'm
(23:51):
from LA.
That's the feeling it gives.
I've never lived in Los Angelesa day in my life.
I visited.
But I'm like poser when thatalbum comes out.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And the thing is all right.
So, of course big thing thatjust happened for LA Luka Doncic
is going to the Lakers.
So, like my LA oh, I see theLakers shirt.
My LA people are going crazy.
Every time I look at my phonethere's another text about what
you're going to do.
I might actually get a LukaDoncic jersey, because the
(24:26):
Lakers was the only team that Iever really kind of followed.
Okay, I never followed a teamin basketball because I'm a huge
basketball fan.
I followed the whole league.
But when I lived in la it's alaker city, so I was like you
know, I'm here yeah, I'm gonnawatch lakers and ever since then
I've kind of kept up with thelakers more than any other team,
and with luca I, like you knowwhat.
(24:48):
I might be a Lakers fan.
I might actually be a legitLakers fan and have my Eastern
Conference team be the Hawks andmy Western Conference team be
the Lakers, because I love goingto see the Hawks play here in
Atlanta and LA.
I have so many memories goingto Staples.
I saw Lou Williams hit the gamewinner on the Nets when I was
there.
It was so incredible.
(25:09):
So with all of that, I bringthat up because I lived there
for five years and I understoodhow people came together there
when Kobe died.
That was one of the craziestmonths in LA.
I'll never forget the feeling inthe city, how people mourned
(25:31):
him, how everyone was leaning oneach other to get through that.
He was bigger than MagicJohnson in my opinion.
And when he died, when Nipseydied oh my God, when Nipsey
passed away, when Nipsey died,oh my God.
When Nipsey passed away, thecity didn't feel like it was
(25:52):
okay.
It felt like it was grievingtogether.
And I was driving for Lyft thatday at his funeral and I had
the funeral on the radio andeveryone who got in the car kind
of man.
I remember the first time Iheard Nipsey man.
He was such a big deal in la,so for the pop out to have this
(26:13):
incredible moment with all ofthese different gang affiliated
people on stage in completeharmony, peace, everyone.
Behind this one guy who's doingit right like he didn't do
anything wrong.
He was just rapping Right.
Drake, literally, was puttingmoney in the streets to get dirt
(26:34):
on this dude instead of justrapping.
Kendrick came out and said I'mjust going to out-rap him.
He did Easy.
It was another day and Ipersonally think I've only seen
a couple of historic hip-hopmoments.
You know what I'm saying andwhen I say that I'm thinking
like you know, it's kind of likewhen Walk this Way came out for
(26:54):
Run DMC.
Like when I say moments in hiphop that that moment had to
happen for us to be where we are.
Sugar Hill Gang, ll Cool J, INeed Love song coming out,
changed everything.
Parents just don't understandLittle moments like that where
it's like, oh my god, summer jam, jay-z, dissonance, stuff like
that, yeah, where you think ofit and you're like, oh my god,
(27:15):
when I think of those moments.
Jadakiss during the dip setversus and it zooms in on his
face and he does new york.
New york is one of the greatesthip-hop moments of all time.
I remember watching it sayingthis is hip-hop history right
here.
That's something that will beon the slideshow.
If people are like, what iship-hop, that will be the way it
starts.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
This is Kiss.
I'm outside.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
That's how it would start.
The pop-out is maybe the mostincredible event I've ever seen
in hip-hop.
I remember the first BET Awards.
I remember watching Jay-Z's theBlack Album concert.
The Watch the Throne concertwas just an incredible moment
for hip hop.
Kanye going against 50 Cent onthat album was an incredible
(27:59):
moment for hip hop.
I have these moments but I'mlike, when you think about the
impact the pop out had on theculture and the like, I said the
fact that he did it right.
It was all about the bars.
He even said you should keep itfriendly.
This is a philly fay.
I'm just a disclaimer don't saynames.
You don't have to get the smokeand drake couldn't, because
(28:22):
he's not a true hip-hop dude.
In my opinion, this dude onlyknows how to feed on emotions.
He was lying on a lot of stuff.
I mean the idea that you wouldfeel the need to send a fake
daughter to kendrick because youwant to mess him.
It's like that song meet thegrams, come on.
(28:42):
When I think of that song, Idon't think about the fact that
he called out you having anotherdaughter.
That's maybe on the end of theburner.
There's a lot of stuff he saidin that song that he could take
that whole verse out and itstill would be like you suck
Drake.
It doesn't matter about thisone thing that you lied to me
about.
Everything else around thatstill matters.
(29:03):
And he called out hispersonality.
I think that's something that Ido, that a lot of people don't.
I look at my artists as rolemodels, as people that I'm
inspired by John Legend's, myfavorite singer, and it's not
only because of his music beingincredible, it's because he was
relatable.
His first couple albums he wastalking about cheating on girls
and how he's working throughthat and this and that, and I'm
(29:24):
like, oh man, this is adifferent perspective, something
I never heard before.
I never heard someone be openabout that because, for sure,
growing up, I had a lot ofpeople in my life that was
unfaithful to their girlfriends,but they would keep it on the
low low.
This dude was openly singingabout it, making tunes and
talking about how he struggleswith it.
I'm doing it again, I'm doingit again.
(29:46):
He's saying it in the song withit.
I'm doing it again, I'm doingit again.
He's saying it in the song.
And each album you watched himprogress.
First two he was single.
His third album is when hestarted dating Chrissy and he
even says it on the album do Ihave a girlfriend?
Well, technically no, andChrissy hated that line because
he was like you do have agirlfriend.
And then after that he wasabout to get married All of me
(30:10):
is on the next album.
And then he's married with kids.
They're talking about makingsome little tax write-offs and
then he's a grown man after thatand I love watching him grow.
I love hearing his story.
I love following his story, hispodcast, the meals that he
makes.
He's an incredible cook.
I love his story.
(30:30):
I saw him perform at the Muniin St Louis with the St Louis
Symphony and it was one of themost incredible performances
I've ever seen in my life andthat's the type of person I try
to follow.
Everyone can be that.
I know that.
I understand there are a lot ofartists and there's artists I
struggle with.
I struggle with Chris Brown.
I artists and it's artists Istruggle with.
I struggle with chris brown.
I still struggle with chrisbrown.
I struggle with michael jackson.
I struggle with so many artists,kanye, I can't even listen to
(30:53):
kanye like I used to rightbecause of the things he done
and, like he, I think he mighthave had a new album last year.
I didn't even listen to the newalbum that was.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
This is the first kind of album I didn't listen to
you can only do so much,separating the artistry from the
artist Exactly, especiallyright now and I don't want to
(31:28):
digress too much, but I think interms of contributing to art
work on himself, but alsosimultaneously mastering a craft
that is really hard to do andmaking the craft captivating and
being dynamic and iterative,like changing up the formula and
not being formulaic.
(31:48):
It's what, similarly to JohnLegend, it's what makes Kendrick
specifically a captivatingartist too.
Yes, because, going back to thepop out, that was a meaningful
moment that was bigger than rap.
That is the idea of sort of aLA ceasefire, almost.
It's like that palpablyimportant, even if it's not the
(32:14):
thing that stops it for good.
It is goodwill and good faithand progress towards something.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, he makes music that electrifies him and Drake
makes his music that pacifieshim.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I'll double down on that line.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I'm saying it's random, mexico, come on.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
So when you sit down and you think about all of what
I just said, I feel like you gotto understand why it's hard for
me to even respect Drake afterwhat's happened, because the
stuff that Kendrick was sayingabout him is stuff that I I
thought about.
I'm like ah, he does.
He's on this song with sexy red.
Is he taking advantage of herclout in the hood?
(32:54):
It and she's from St Louis.
I'm like this is somebody thatI I'm going to support no matter
what Cause.
That's my person.
And he is right there on her,her tails and her tails.
And she's this big star andeverybody's saying, well, she
should be happy, drake got onthe track.
And I'm like, why should allthese people have to be thankful
that this dude is jumping ontheir tracks?
It's, it's like, why is hedoing it?
(33:16):
Why is he down there with youngthug?
Why is he doing this with 21savage?
Why is he in future, alwayslike it's, it's.
It's so obvious that he'sjumping from person to person
for clout.
And when Kendrick calls it out,he's like I've been feeling
this way, so the fact that he'ssaying it I know I'm not crazy.
I feel like I see the samething he's saying, and on meet
(33:39):
the grounds when he say this isa long lesson on dealing with
yourself yeah.
Long battle with yourself.
It really opened my eyes evenmore to just how I'm like.
He is very insecure.
He's damn near 40 posting allthese little like duck face
selfies and bullshit and helooks performative with this
(34:00):
child.
He's doing things so peoplecould say, oh my god, he's a
great father kind of thing.
But also he's the boy and he isa bachelor.
And I mean, granted, peoplegonna do what they do, I don't.
I can't judge people for notwanting a committed relationship
, especially if they're therichest rapper out.
But right, I just don't feellike his morals.
(34:21):
His head is in the right place.
When he talks.
He sounds like he's the old catat the club trying to hang out
with the kids.
His music sounds like he's theold cat at the club trying to
hang out with the kids.
His music sounds like he's theold cat at the club trying to
hang with the kids.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yachty, can't give you no swag either.
I don't give a fuck who youhang with.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Come on now.
It's hard, I know these linesman.
No, no, we'll always know hislines.
I hate the way that you walk,the way that you talk.
I hate the way that you dress.
Come on, man.
Best thing about this thing isI've been feeling this way about
Drake for a while, but I had towatch him continue to get more
(34:59):
success, continue to rise higher, get $500 million from
Universal because he's thisgreat person, and then make all
that money back so quickly.
He's so great and it's like, ishe great?
And then true greatness comesin and says hold my beer, let me
show you what a real rapperlooks like.
(35:21):
And this dude sues him doesn'tsue him, I'm sorry, sues the
record label saying that therecord label the record label
tried to promote this song morethan mine in the.
It's a dispute against contractsand it's like you are showing
your true colors yeah, that'sthe boy right there that is the
(35:43):
boy and the idea that he's inthis world where he thinks what
he did is okay.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
How can you look at that artist, that person and
respect him, and it calls intoquestion how much he really
latched on to hip-hop teachings.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And I know that it's been beaten like a dead horse,
the sort of commentary aroundthe lawsuit.
But if it's a hip-hop sparringmatch then it's a hip-hop
sparring match and if you setthe tone by we can make it
(36:22):
personal then you set that tone,but you're still supposed to
keep it rap.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, how are you going to?
You're going to sue somebodyfor calling you a a PDF file.
You're going to sue them, butyou literally called them a wife
beater in the song before.
Yeah, what are you talkingabout, dude?
One of the weirdest things I'veever seen in pop culture.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Sometimes I want to give Drake a little bit of
credit, going back to the ideaof him being on people's songs,
because there is a world inwhich Drake would big up
somebody or co-sign somebodythat I otherwise wouldn't have
heard about.
Even though More Life wasn't amasterpiece, it took us to the
UK scene a little bit and in2025, I don't know if I would be
(37:14):
listening to Lainey Fox or evengive Skepta the time of day or
anything like that.
Not saying that I didn't tap ina little bit, but that's where
I guess some of my conflict lies, because I remember when,
before 21 Savage's debut album,they did that collab song called
(37:37):
Sneakin' I want to say that waslike 2015, 2016.
And it was kind of like anintroductory to 21 Savage and I
was just like, wow, this song isfire, the aesthetic of the
video is fire.
That propelled me to listen to21 and become a fan.
(37:57):
But where does that line blur?
Where does it become black andwhite?
And then it becomes thatbusiness thing.
When you look through the lensof business, it's like, yeah,
man, you've just beenpositioning yourself to
ingratiate your own bank account.
Yeah, like you could give twoshits if young thug gets locked
(38:17):
up, you give two shits about theperception of sexy red and
whatever.
It's empty.
That's where it feels like alittle empty.
I want to give Drake a littlebit of credit because I have
tried to be a fan of his, but hemakes it really really, really
(38:37):
hard.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, once again, thank you for listening to the
pod today.
I love speaking with Jay Boogieand this subject has been on
top of my list to cover, sothank you for listening through
and hopefully you're enjoyingwhat we're talking about.
Make sure to share this pod andsubscribe if you haven't
(39:01):
already.
Hit me up on Instagram if youhave any ideas for the pod.
And let's just get back intothe episode overall, with what
has happened in this beef, whereit's still pointing out, where,
like I said, we feel likekendrick's on lap 12 and he's
(39:24):
still going.
This concert, this tour, isabout to start.
Tickets are crazy.
We just got offered sometickets for $350 to go see him
here in Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
We bought ours day one, so we're going to be in
there.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh man, I don't know if I could spend that much money
to go Not $350, but seeingwhere he is now and seeing how
Drake reacted with the lawsuitsand stuff and he supposedly, you
know, I don't really care howdo you feel this has impacted
hip hop as a whole?
Do you think it was good forhip hop?
Do you think it was bad for hiphop?
(39:56):
What do you think?
Because last year, even thoughNot Like Us was the number one
hip hop song and it was thenumber one song all around hip
hop kind of took a seat backduring the year.
Tyler put out an incredibleproject, schoolboy q put out a
great project.
Joey badass just did the wholething he has been doing.
Might delete.
This later came out last year.
So it was an incredible year ofhip-hop.
(40:17):
But also hip-hop wasn't sellingas much as it was the year
before that.
How do you think that like?
Do you feel like this beef wassomething that hip hop needed
and do you think that beefs likethis will continue to move the
culture forward or it mightactually impact it in a negative
way?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think that the beef underscored the importance of
what hip hop is at itsfundamentals.
It's about writing these raps.
We are writing these raps Interms of hip hop not selling.
I have not given that thedeepest thought, but my impulse
is to say that that has a lot todo with the music industry as a
(40:53):
machine how they promote andwhat they promote versus what
will resonate with an audience.
Yeah, With an audience.
Yeah, Because we got the GNX,which obviously was a
semi-response to the beef, but Ithink was also being worked on
prior to the beef.
It went off the charts.
(41:14):
You cited a lot of people thatmake great music and there, I
believe, are a lot more artiststhat deserve notoriety, and we
got Wiz Khalifa rapping overSquabble Up, Squabble Up.
So to me, whether it's aboutsales or whether it's about we
(41:35):
just love this shit again, thenI'm happy to get some.
We love this shit again, Evenif it's not about making money.
You mentioned Friday NightLights.
That was a mixtape.
We were back on Dat Piff in theLil Wayne era and downloading
mixtapes for free.
People who love hip hop wereconsuming it, whether they were
(41:56):
purchasing it or getting it byother means.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And that's been a way that people have done it since
the 90s.
My mama was getting mixtapesactually tapes of UGK out of
Houston in St Louis and theywere buying them from the dude
on the bus.
He always got the bootlegs, butthat's how they were consuming
new music.
They heard NWA off of mixtape.
(42:20):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I think it's a good thing.
Mixtape yeah, I agree with you.
I think it's a good thing.
If people want to rap more,whether their output goes up or
their creative juices areflowing, and they get more
conceptual or want to really getinto packaging and rollout,
it's going to be beneficial,because Kendrick showed us that
we can have success, we can bethoughtful, it can be polished,
(42:43):
it can be sort of punk rock inthe timelining of it all, and it
doesn't have to be overthoughtand pristine.
I'm ready for more.
I'm ready for whatever is onthe other side of this.
We don't have to cater we.
I'm speaking for artists.
I suppose they don't have to bebeholden to what Spotify is
(43:03):
going to think and maybe whenthey're doing their contracting
they can write something inabout.
Maybe albums is one thing, butmixtapes and singles or whatever
.
Lucy's is another thing and I'mnot sure what it'll bring, but
I think it's positive.
I want to see more fromeveryone and I want it to be
less affiliated with radio andstatistics.
(43:26):
That'll always be a factor, butmore art is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
More art, more art.
As an artist my next album I'vebeen pushing the idea of maybe
not really worried aboutstreaming platforms trying to
find a way to sell physicalcopies.
You know, doing vinyl would befun, actually getting people to
(43:50):
purchase the album on Bandcampand actually support me directly
when you know, I remember Itried to do a GoFundMe kind of
thing and I had somebody reachout to me.
I'll never forget this.
He was a piano player in LA andhe was like listen, dominique,
I appreciate you, but I don'tsupport artists doing GoFundMe's
for money, so I'm not gonna payany money towards it he doesn't
(44:12):
support artists, then yeah, itwas weird that he did that.
But then in my head I'm like ifI would ask him to buy my album,
I think he would have bought it.
That's kind of where my headwas.
It was like, maybe get theproject done, so that when he's
like, how can I support you here, buy it right?
Okay, great.
And that's something that Ifeel like is spreading over the
(44:33):
entire industry now.
People are trying to find waysto be more creative and
independent, not trying to relyon the big companies and the
streaming companies and stuff,and I agree I think that's come
because of a lot of the stuffthat we've been seeing here.
(44:53):
We go now Every night before wesleep, I pull you next to me.
I pull you next to me and Itell you how much I love you,
babe.
We smile and spoon away.
(45:16):
This is every day.
I hope this will remain thesame.
Flowers every week.
I kiss you on your cheek andyou beam.
(45:44):
Oh, how I love it, babe.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
This is every day.
I hope this will remain thesame.
(46:09):
This, of course, is aperformance of my original tune
Valentine's Day.
I did this in Chicago at theLemon Bar for Valentine's Day in
2024.
And I wrote it for that actualevent and I love the song and
I'm looking forward to releasingit on my new album, dommie,
sometime this year.
(46:29):
But this is also on streamingplatforms now.
The album is here to entertainvolume two.
You can listen to my music onall streaming platforms and you
can check me out for moreinformation at domlamorecom,
where you can get anything andeverything.
Domlamore, you've passed thetest.
Every day, I check in with youto see what's new.
(46:58):
I listen and tell you all thethings I can do to help you.
Our love is the best way.
This is every day.
Who needs Valentine's Day?
(47:24):
Cheers to y'all now.
Let's hear it now.
This year, I've been doing a newsegment called you Know what I
Love.
The way this works is verysimple.
(47:44):
We usually have these deepconversations.
Today was a good one, so itwasn't negative but sometimes we
could be talking and it getsreally, really emotional hard
for people to continue.
Sometimes people have to takebreaks and I always want to find
a way to add positive stuffinto the shows, no matter what
the topic is.
So this segment you know what Ilove.
(48:06):
I'm going to tell you somethingthat I'm loving right now and
why you should love it.
And then I'll ask you the samething and you'll repeat to me
what you love it right now.
All right, so for me and like Isaid, it's very simple I'm
going to give you a very simpleone.
You know what I love.
I love Ted Drew's custard.
That's something from St Louis.
(48:28):
Here in Georgia they haveAndy's, like other places in the
country that you can get likecustard and milkshakes and
delicious ice cream.
I grew up with Ted Drew's downthe street on Grand and it is
something that I think aboutevery flipping day and I really
(48:48):
I miss that about being home.
But Andy's is down the streetfrom us now here in Georgia, so
I can go there and kind of get alittle bit of it.
But you know I can't turn theAndy's upside down without it
falling out of the cup.
That's Drew's, the concretes,you know, and I miss that and I
really, really I don't know whatit is about ice cream, but I
(49:11):
just yeah that's what I'm lovingright now Ice cream.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We got to keep it out of the house because otherwise
it'd be gone too quick aroundhere.
Shout out Ben and Jerry's, webe at Schnucks.
Yeah, the Ben and Jerry'salways looking for the sale,
like, oh okay, right now it's$6.49.
It's a little high, but whenit's at $3.99, you better
believe we on that Ben andJerry's.
Shout out Andy's too.
(49:37):
I get the.
Sometimes I get the milkshake,sometimes I get a concrete.
I know what's up.
Shout out ice cream.
You know what I love and theycame up before.
But right now I'm loving theLakers.
Yes, and I will preface thiswith I am a peripheral NBA fan,
(50:01):
I'm not getting in there withstats, I'm not following
multiple teams and for somereason, over the past three, two
, three plus years, I just foundmyself gravitating to the
Lakers.
Yeah, and I was born in suburbsof Illinois or suburbs of
(50:23):
Chicago, so I got some.
Or suburbs of Chicago, so I gotsome like light, faint, late
90s Bulls fandom and then livedin the Atlanta area for, you
know, nine plus years, some somelate and distant Hawks.
But now I'm getting a littleolder.
Lebron James is getting older.
We've witnessed this verystoried, impeccable career over
(50:48):
the past 20-something years andI've kind of just decided that I
want to be able to talk aboutLeBron James in some capacity
and I wasn't really followingthe NBA too much when he was on
Cleveland or I caught a littlebit of the heat days, but I want
to be able to speak to what itmeant for him to be in the NBA.
(51:12):
So I've been watching him inhis Laker days and he's 40 right
now, still putting up tripledoubles.
It's insane, it's unreal.
Don't, don't try to.
If you see me on the street,let's not talk about anything
else, because I don't.
I don't know nothing aboutPhilly, I don't know nothing
(51:32):
about Toronto, but if you wantto say like, oh, austin Reeves,
he's shooting above you know Xand he had 25 points, he
shouldn't be having that, orsorry for our loss ad, we could
chat that.
But yeah, really really lovingthe lakers.
They're not even the best inthe west, you know.
So you know that's when it'slike some real, just like fandom
(51:53):
type stuff, because they got alot of heart.
I'm a miss mack christy as well.
He was doing real well ondefense, but you know, mavericks
got them one now.
So, yeah, I'm loving the Lakersright now.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
We've made it to the end of the episode.
It's always a good time, alwaysa good conversation.
Today, like I said, very light,I wanted it to just be hip hop
talk, and I always love talkingto hip hop with you.
We talked about everything wewant to talk about.
All I want to know now is howdo you feel?
I?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
feel good.
I feel we only y'all, if y'allare listening right now, we only
grazed the surface of thisKendrick Lamar Drake beef.
So the last parting words I'mgoing to say, if you haven't
dipped your toes in the questionis where have you been?
I forgive you.
Go listen to first personshooter.
(52:47):
Then go listen to like that byfuture featuring kendrick lamar.
Then go listen to push-ups andeuphoria and meet the grams and
taylor made freestyle if youwish.
Go listen to all of that, justso you understand where we're
coming from.
And then listen to G&X.
(53:07):
But no, all that to say, I'mfeeling good.
Hip hop is probably number onefavorite topic to talk about, so
I'm always going to be here forthat.
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
I appreciate you, man .
Cheers to you, cheers.
I want to thank you forlistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast.
The opening quote credit goesto Kendrick Lamar and shout out
to my guy, john, for being onthe pod.
(53:39):
Follow John at John Butts ishere on Instagram.
Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us
a good rating Five stars, please, and thank you.
You can support the show byclicking the link at the bottom
of the episode description.
If you like this episode, youshould check out our previous
episode with John Butts, titledPolitical Talk with John Butts.
(54:02):
Good, listen, check it out.
Follow me at D-O-M.
Underscore L-A-M-O-U-R.
On Instagram or at DomLamorecom.
I'm Dom Lamore, much love.
how does?
Where does that line blur?
Where does it become?
Black and white is, and then itbecomes.
It becomes that business thing.
When you look through the lensof business it's like, yeah, man
, you've just been positioningyourself to ingratiate your own
bank account.
Yeah, like you could give twoshits if young thug gets locked
(00:20):
up.
You give two shits about theperception of sexy red and
whatever it's.
It's empty.
That's where it feels like alittle empty I want to give.
I want to give drake a littlebit of credit, because I have, I
have tried to be a fan of his,but he makes it really really
really hard.
(00:41):
Yeah, really really really hard.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Ladies and gentlemen, and anyone else who is here, my
name is Don Lamour and you arelistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast.
On today's episode, I speakwith a friend of the show, john
Butts, about Kendrick Lamar'shistoric shakedown of Drake and
the state of hip hop right now.
If my edge is dull, my sword isdull, and I don't want to fight
(01:15):
another guy whose sword is dull.
If you've got two steel swordsgoing back and forth hitting
each other, what's going tohappen?
And back and forth hitting eachother, what's going to happen?
Both of them are going to getsharper.
Everybody that's in theindustry has lost their edge.
Normally, you and I would betalking babies, we'll be talking
(01:39):
politics, stuff that is, youknow, absolutely depressing
right now.
So, so, other than babies,babies are great.
How are the babies doing?
Babies are good.
Yeah, that's good.
The babies.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
I'm not the babies aren't depressing.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The world right now is depressing, and I feel like
every time I talk about it I geta little bit more kind of
uneasy.
So instead of doing that to youthis time, I want to give you a
fun episode.
It's Black History Month we outhere living.
So to avoid all of thatcompletely, I want to talk about
(02:16):
the real news.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Kendrick Lamar won five Grammys.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Oh man, let's go.
He called Drake a PDF file,called Drake a PDF file and the
audience sang A minor as heaccepted the record of the year
(02:39):
Grammy.
I would love to just do a deepdive into the history of this
beef and your feelings anddifferent things that you feel
about this.
I just feel like it's necessary.
He performed at the Super Bowl.
I need to really process how hejust destroyed Drake and I want
to know how you feel.
So go ahead and take it away.
How do you feel about what'sgoing on?
I hear it's called theShakespearean shakedown that he
(03:01):
did.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I haven't heard that one yet, but that's real yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Justin Hunt.
Shout out to Justin Hunt.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
That's my guy.
It's all happening.
One second applause.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
One second applause, yes.
How do you feel abouteverything that's going on?
Speaker 1 (03:12):
with this beef.
There's a little distance forme, because I think that he hit
all of the high points and whenI say this man is on his 10th
victory lap, it don't make nosense.
It's like I don't know wherethe entry point is for this
conversation.
But so let's just no.
(03:33):
No, we're doing a completeoverview of everything.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Okay, everything, even this.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
We can go as far back as the poetic justice I mean I
don't know the specifics ofwhere the parting ways mentally
happened.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
It's easy.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
It was control.
Oh, okay, yeah, control.
But I feel like it was beforecontrol because you brought up
poetic justice.
As I've digested it, there wasDrake bringing Kendrick into the
fold, so to speak.
Yeah, he was on tour with himGiving him that boost and he
kind of just saw how the sausagegot made at OVO.
He was like you gotta bekidding me.
(04:10):
You talk about this.
I've been out here in theprojects rap battling.
I went from K-Dot trying to dothese Lil Wayne type verses to
like no, I'm shedding thatmoniker, and like really
becoming an artist and we overhere doing kind of recycled,
just reference tracks and allthat, at least to my
(04:33):
understanding.
That's where Kendrick'sperspective on Drake shifted.
Now the control verse man, Iremember where I was.
I was in Virginia working forColonial Williamsburg Shout out
to them, they're doing greatwork in the apartment.
And I was.
I was in Virginia working forColonial Williamsburg Shout out
to them, they're doing greatwork in the apartment.
And I was like okay, I'mhearing buzz about this control
verse, let me just put it on.
I usually be homies with thesame niggas I'm rhyming with
(05:00):
yeah, and to me that's the sport, if you're not in it, to kind
of have that back and forth andspar a little bit with your
contemporaries, then youshouldn't be in it.
A lot of people took that instride.
A lot of people tried to writetheir own response verses.
It didn't really make a splashfor many other people other than
(05:21):
Drake and you fast forward.
Was it the BET cypher freestyle?
Speaker 2 (05:26):
oh yeah tuck the sensitive rapper back in his
pajama clothes like and everyoneknew who he was talking about,
because Drake did that interviewand he was talking to the guy
like it was a good moment, butlike let me ask you, uh, how
does that verse start?
And the whole audience burstinto laughing and it was like if
(05:47):
I was Kendrick and I saw thatI'd have been like, oh, I'm
taking him out, I'm totallytaking him out because he was so
petty and then he tried to givehim backhanded little.
Well, he's a fantastic artist.
You know what I'm saying.
But you know I think aboutworks of art.
You know what I'm saying.
I really focus on doing fullprojects.
You know and this is comingfrom a guy I'm not sure how you
(06:09):
feel about it, but I don't thinkhe has a classic album
personally Ooh, okay.
The only one.
If you were like what is aclassic, I would say so Far Gone
.
And that was a mixtape, wow,wow.
And the reason why I say it isbecause that truly was his hype
to me.
He did that and his hype was inthe atmosphere at that point,
because at that point you hadLil Wayne taking over the world.
(06:32):
He was the best rapper aliveand Lil Wayne allowed this dude
to be on so many songs with himthat when you listened to him
you were like, hey, he's hangingwith Lil Wayne.
Lil Wayne's the best rapperalive.
He must be great.
And that's the only reason whyhe got out the door.
If he wasn't rhyming next toLil Wayne, he wouldn't have been
(06:52):
pushed to where he was pushed,because Lil Wayne literally was
selling a million records a weekRight but the cosigns are
important, you know, and thatthat kind of circles back to the
Kendrick attachment a littlebit For me.
Speaker 1 (07:04):
I can't, where the debate happens, take care for me
.
Yes Is nothing was the same, aclassic question mark.
A lot of people say, yes, I'mkind of on the fence.
It's been a while and I haven'tlistened to it enough recently
to be able to make a call onthat.
But Drake, I watched a littlebit of the 100 gigs because it
(07:26):
was post the beef a little bit.
I had some distance from thecatastrophe that happened for
him.
I wasn't throwing a pity partybecause I don't really hold
Drake up in that high of anesteem at this point, but I was
curious, what was this?
And you kind of see the Ovofactory and you see the exchange
(07:46):
of the ideas and you can seethat Drake really cares about
this music stuff.
But it's more so his non-bodyof workness post those two
albums I just mentioned To me.
Where Drake started to falterwas after Nothing Was the Same,
where it became.
I'm this algorithmic artist, Iam the hit maker.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Therefore I have to cater to the wave, I'm going to
make mixtapes and playlistsinstead of albums.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
You can play that in the hookah bar, you can play
that at brunch, but as studentsof hip hop, that only goes so
far.
Hip hop started with a messageand that's what Kendrick said at
the Grammys in his speech Likethis is our craft.
Hip hop made this and you haveto be a student of this.
You got to love this.
This is the culture.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
The question I ask people when they tell me Take
Care is a classic you have GoodKid Mad City, you have Pimple
Butterfly Damn, Just those three.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Where does Take Care rank with those three albums?
That's a good question.
I think this depends on theKendrick fan that you're
speaking to, because I thinkthere's a sliding, or those
three albums change slotsdepending upon who you are.
I'm a person who maybe revisitsGood Kid Mad City the least, so
I would say those two albumsare in a similar weight class.
(09:06):
But Take Care is a sophomorealbum, whereas Good Kid Mad City
is a mainstream debut.
And I do give Drake some creditfor iterating off of Thank Me
Later, because that was overlypoppy and overly catering.
He was using an old formulathat didn't really work at that
(09:27):
time.
He was kind of using like thejay-z or whomever formula where
you craft your album based onthe hit maker, producers and
names, whereas take care got himcloser to that ovo sound, that
toronto sound, but also shoutout tond, because he's kind of
pioneering that cold, ominousfeeling and he wrote half of
that album Exactly.
(09:47):
But I hear you.
I hear you.
I'm not here to say thatbecause so Far Gone is such a
good mixtape.
Yes, and it was at the tail end.
We're closing the curtain onthe blog era and we're entering
the streaming era, I would saythat might have been the last
great mixtape.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Honestly, I feel that I have to double check when
friday night lights came out.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
But around the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, I know they came, but like if it came out
afternoon it wasn't the last one, because friday night lights I
listened to that last night.
Wow, I still bump that becauseit's on apple music now.
Okay, so it's too deep for theintro Got to come through at
least once or twice.
I always ask that because in myhead, with what I just saved
you those three albums and Iinclude Mr Morale or GNX,
because it would be even worsewith those in there, because I
(10:34):
love those albums too.
I personally, the first time Iheard To Pimp a Butterfly, I
remember listening all the waythrough it and I'd never done
this with any album ever in mylife.
I finished the album afterMortal man.
Hearing Tupac's conversationwith Kendrick, I turned it off.
I stopped because I think Ilistened to the CD and I was
(10:54):
like I think that's the greatesthip hop album I've ever heard
in my life.
I still remember saying thatout loud to myself.
I think that's the best albumI've ever listened to.
It was mind-blowing how goodthat was and, granted, over the
years it got to a point where Ididn't listen to it a lot.
But now I go back and I'm likeI don't know why I don't listen
to this as much as I do, becauseI really love this album.
So that's number one easily.
(11:15):
It's not even a discussion forme.
Good, kid Mad City's number twoI revisit that one all the time
and see I'm different than you.
I just feel like thestorytelling and the production
that Dre did on that album isflawless.
And then Damn is the next one.
Take Care is on the list for me.
I understand why people lovedit.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It had some hits, but as a full project I don't
really like the Weeknd, so thatmight also add to it, yeah, and
I think where it gets harder forme to speak to this
retrospective a little bit isbecause I'm so contemporary
minded yeah, like I will chasewhat's new over enjoying what
used to be.
(11:56):
Yeah, I remember the vibes thatI was feeling when To Pimp a
Butterfly came out too, and justfeeling so like this is a
transcendent record.
This is Quincy Jones levelenshrined in music history level
.
Project Good Kid Mad City isvery cinematic when I think
(12:19):
about it and the storytelling isimpeccable from front to back.
As a concept Damn to me kind ofrolled back a little bit of the
loftiness of both of thoseattempts, was able to deliver
some of those themes in amainstream way and made those
themes palatable for amainstream audience.
(12:41):
Everything is there.
I think it has a little bitmore of a edge to it.
This is him having thosesuccesses with Good Kid Maddie
City and To Pimp a Butterfly,and now he's kind of
retrospecting on his success andit becomes a little bit more
introspective for him.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
To jump on that, a comparison that I always do when
it comes to those three albums.
I always feel like damn isKendrick's graduation by Kanye
West, because by the time he gotto that album, kanye's whole
purpose was to make this as bigas stadiums.
He wanted to be able to dothese songs and it sound
incredible in stadiums.
(13:17):
That's how he was thinkingabout making it so big.
So it was more mainstream.
It was more of that like uh,and I felt like Damn was the
same way.
I mean the single for that isHumble.
You hear that Humble.
It hits way different thananything else that he's played
on any of his other albums.
So I agree with you and, like Isaid, we don't have to stay on
this.
I understand the idea of Drakeand everyone's going to have
(13:40):
different perspectives when itcomes down to it, but for me, as
a person who loves the art formand it is an art form that is
very specific.
Other places, like countrymusic, they don't care if you
write your own music.
As long as you sang good,that's all that matters.
People try to put Drake in thehip hop world when they want him
there and then they try toexcuse him just because they
(14:02):
like him To say that he's thebest rapper, does he write all
of his stuff?
Take care, we've literallyheard we can wrote half of that
album.
Right, if that's his onlyclassic album and he didn't even
write it, why is he even beingconsidered in this discussion?
And that breaks my heartbecause it doesn't really matter
.
Everyone's going to like whatthey like.
(14:24):
But in my head it's like as ahip hop fan LL Cool J didn't
have people writing his songs.
Rakim didn't have peoplewriting his songs.
Krs-one did not have peoplewriting his songs.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
In the 90s, one of the main media touchstones about
hip hop was oh, look at all ofmy books of rhymes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
my notebooks yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yeah, no, I 100% see what you mean there, and that's
where the line gets blurry.
It's not even blurry at thispoint, it's overt.
But Drake was able to use hiphop to be a pop artist able to
(15:07):
use hip hop to be a pop artist.
While he has the capabilitiesand certainly has done his
diligence in being able to rap,it's just not from the same
place.
It's like he's an outsider tosome degree yeah, and see what
you're saying right there.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
I just had this discussion with someone, the the
other day where it made me feellike he used the Lil Wayne for
his clout, got the clout anddisrespected Lil Wayne.
I mean, literally, kendrickcalled it out and it's so true.
Like you don't do that topeople that you respect.
So it's obvious he's over thetop about how great of a person
(15:41):
he is.
He thinks he's so good that hecan do whatever he wants and
treat people who literally gavehim a career.
Lil Wayne co-signing him is theonly reason why we know who
Drake is, doesn't matter whatyou say, it doesn't matter how
talented he is.
Lil Wayne said he was dope.
We all love Lil Wayne.
Drake was the next one up andthen Baby was like screw you,
(16:06):
lil Wayne, you can't releasemusic anymore.
I'm going to pump up Drake.
And Drake became the biggestone.
That's what happened.
And so what you're saying,right there, is true.
He was an outsider.
He's this dude from Canada whocame in and he was singing Trey
Songz tunes and then he did acouple of tunes where he was
(16:26):
rapping and people loved his rap, and now he's claiming he's the
best rapper, like Lil Wayne.
And it's like Lil Wayne writesall his raps.
Lil Wayne, can I'll rap you now?
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Lil Wayne was the one to tell him when he was
starting to blow up.
It was like, just don't try todo any of that hard stuff Like
you're from Canada, bro, youwere on the, you were on the
grassy.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Keep it kind of lovey dovey almost.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And it sucks Cause.
I think back to the troll and Iremember I've always been on
the outside of this.
Wale was my guy and J Cole wasmy guy and J Cole was my guy,
and Wale fell off real fast.
I will fully admit, the lastproject I liked of Wale's before
the album about nothing.
Because that was the nextproject.
(17:13):
I was like that's actually agood project, but more about
nothing.
The mixtape was like the firstthing that I fell in love with
and he had a couple of goodtracks on Ambition and different
things, but like he didn'treally do anything after that he
has a couple of singles.
That's about it.
J Cole, of course, is a part ofthe big three, and I still call
him a part of the big three.
(17:34):
In my opinion, he'll always besynonymous with these three
people.
I remember hearing Controlbeing like oh man, those are my
guys.
It's dope that that Kendricksaid that, but I still would.
But when Drake came out and hewas talking about all of that
stuff, it was like, oh man, Idon't know if I like him anymore
(17:55):
.
I remember Control was when Istopped really liking Drake,
because before that he couldn'tmiss with me.
At first, like you, though, hisalbums weren't great when he
was on the Young Money album,and he did the Flintstones song.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
What's the?
Speaker 2 (18:09):
song Every Girl in the World.
Yeah, yeah, it was like thatright there.
That verse was crazy and I waslike man, this dude is dope.
He has so much swag he kills it.
And we moved forward.
He was more on that backpacktype of rap at that point too
yeah, and I will say one song,like I would say the peak of
drake, in my opinion, would havebeen sicko mode.
(18:31):
When sicko mode came out, thatwas the first time I was like,
okay, I get it, this dude isincredible and this song is good
because of drake.
Travis scott killed it on.
There'm not going to say hedidn't, but the lines that you
remember are the ones Drake saidChecks over stripes.
That's what I like, like you,only remember Drake's parts I
(18:55):
repeat his parts over and overfrom that song, and so I
remember that being incredible.
But I still didn't give him thecrown.
And when fast forwardinging,when first person shooter mode
came out, oh my god, it's soincredible to see what's
happened since then.
I remember hearing big as asuper bowl and j cole clearly
(19:17):
outshining drake on that song.
Right, clearly it was thenumber one song in the country
and I was like j cole.
The reason why?
Because he was so good on thattrack.
And then Drake had his I'mabout to part at the end where
he switches it up and he makesit seem like he's so hard on the
drill beat or whatever, andit's like what is he doing?
Like literally he ruined themood of the song at the end of
(19:40):
the song and I was like ugh,he's not what he I mean.
Mean, the idea that this songis such a big hit isn't because
of him.
It's because of because of jaycole killing it.
And who's the biggest artist?
Mc me, aubrey or kendrick likethat?
That line is the thing that youremember.
We did big three, like westarted to leave.
But right now I feel likemuhammad ali, like I'm like,
(20:00):
yeah, jay cole is old.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
the end of spider-Man meme line.
Yes, the Spider-Man meme is melooking at Drake.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
It's like okay, and that was the thing it was like.
If you're saying that kind ofstuff, maybe you are taking
Kendrick out of it, and so to gofull circle, where they start
the song saying Biggest SuperBowl and then Kendrick is the
only one out of the three ofthem to actually perform at the
(20:29):
Super Bowl.
He's already done it.
He's already performed at theSuper Bowl.
People have to remember thatthis isn't his first time
performing at the Super Bowl,but they made a song saying
Biggest Super Bowl when healready had performed at the
Super Bowl and now he's doinghis own set at the Super Bowl.
Well, he done it and killed it.
The pop out the video.
The video like I could go onand like the idea album release,
(20:53):
the oh my god, gnx.
All 12 songs were the top ofthe list.
Each song on this album was topof the list.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
That never, never in history, has someone had one,
two, three, four, five on analbum like that that's where
they try to get them, thoughthey always try to get them at
numbers, but numbers matter to adegree, but it's always been
the quality and the craft at theend of the day.
With gnx if we're just touchingon that, you marry the numbers
(21:23):
with the listenability, with thela sort of community building
aspect of gnx doing somethingthat everyone said he couldn't
do make a la focused album,something that's not
heavy-handed come on.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
And when I tell you gnx was my most listened to
album last year and it came outin December.
It is true, it came out inDecember and it was my most
listened to album.
Dude, it was on repeat.
It reminded me of victory lapokay, that's a fair comparison
that felt like GNX.
(22:00):
Gnx felt like that because whenyou're in LA and you listen to
Victory Lap anywhere you at,doesn't matter what part of it
if you put your window down andsomeone is in the car next to
you, they're like that is analbum that everyone respects on
the West Coast.
And GNX that Dodger Bluedriving down Sepulveda.
(22:21):
I can only imagine how it is inLA listening to that album.
But I go back.
That's going to be the firstthing that hey Now say now Are
you serious?
This album was so unique and itwas also him, just purely just
demonstrating.
This is how good I am.
(22:42):
Y'all think I can't do like hitshere's hits for you.
Y'all think I can't do somesoft lovey-dovey stuff?
Here's Luther for you.
I can't do like hits here'shits for you.
Y'all think I can't do somesoft lovey-dovey stuff?
Here's Luther for you.
Like I can do all of this and Ican do squabble up and I could
do whacked out murals.
A literally six minute songstarting the album, talking
crazy about everyone withoperatic Spanish, and you stay
(23:06):
in it.
You don't lose.
You don't lose any steamthroughout the entire album.
By the time you get the TV off,you'd already been bumping so
much you almost tired, and thenit brings you back.
You're like, oh my God.
And then the worst part is allthe songs that we've said hey,
now, say, now is the only onethat might be competing for my
favorite song, but the hard partsix is maybe my favorite.
Speaker 1 (23:29):
I don't know what my favorite song is, because it's
so fucking good yeah, theflowers, giving the flowers a
sensitive it's, it's an homage,it's like it's got some remnants
of the mr morale and sort ofthat transparency.
Yeah, the gmX is insane and Ilisten to that album like I'm
(23:51):
from LA.
That's the feeling it gives.
I've never lived in Los Angelesa day in my life.
I visited.
But I'm like poser when thatalbum comes out.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
And the thing is all right.
So, of course big thing thatjust happened for LA Luka Doncic
is going to the Lakers.
So, like my LA oh, I see theLakers shirt.
My LA people are going crazy.
Every time I look at my phonethere's another text about what
you're going to do.
I might actually get a LukaDoncic jersey, because the
(24:26):
Lakers was the only team that Iever really kind of followed.
Okay, I never followed a teamin basketball because I'm a huge
basketball fan.
I followed the whole league.
But when I lived in la it's alaker city, so I was like you
know, I'm here yeah, I'm gonnawatch lakers and ever since then
I've kind of kept up with thelakers more than any other team,
and with luca I, like you knowwhat.
(24:48):
I might be a Lakers fan.
I might actually be a legitLakers fan and have my Eastern
Conference team be the Hawks andmy Western Conference team be
the Lakers, because I love goingto see the Hawks play here in
Atlanta and LA.
I have so many memories goingto Staples.
I saw Lou Williams hit the gamewinner on the Nets when I was
there.
It was so incredible.
(25:09):
So with all of that, I bringthat up because I lived there
for five years and I understoodhow people came together there
when Kobe died.
That was one of the craziestmonths in LA.
I'll never forget the feeling inthe city, how people mourned
(25:31):
him, how everyone was leaning oneach other to get through that.
He was bigger than MagicJohnson in my opinion.
And when he died, when Nipseydied oh my God, when Nipsey
passed away, when Nipsey died,oh my God.
When Nipsey passed away, thecity didn't feel like it was
(25:52):
okay.
It felt like it was grievingtogether.
And I was driving for Lyft thatday at his funeral and I had
the funeral on the radio andeveryone who got in the car kind
of man.
I remember the first time Iheard Nipsey man.
He was such a big deal in la,so for the pop out to have this
(26:13):
incredible moment with all ofthese different gang affiliated
people on stage in completeharmony, peace, everyone.
Behind this one guy who's doingit right like he didn't do
anything wrong.
He was just rapping Right.
Drake, literally, was puttingmoney in the streets to get dirt
(26:34):
on this dude instead of justrapping.
Kendrick came out and said I'mjust going to out-rap him.
He did Easy.
It was another day and Ipersonally think I've only seen
a couple of historic hip-hopmoments.
You know what I'm saying andwhen I say that I'm thinking
like you know, it's kind of likewhen Walk this Way came out for
(26:54):
Run DMC.
Like when I say moments in hiphop that that moment had to
happen for us to be where we are.
Sugar Hill Gang, ll Cool J, INeed Love song coming out,
changed everything.
Parents just don't understandLittle moments like that where
it's like, oh my god, summer jam, jay-z, dissonance, stuff like
that, yeah, where you think ofit and you're like, oh my god,
(27:15):
when I think of those moments.
Jadakiss during the dip setversus and it zooms in on his
face and he does new york.
New york is one of the greatesthip-hop moments of all time.
I remember watching it sayingthis is hip-hop history right
here.
That's something that will beon the slideshow.
If people are like, what iship-hop, that will be the way it
starts.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
This is Kiss.
I'm outside.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
That's how it would start.
The pop-out is maybe the mostincredible event I've ever seen
in hip-hop.
I remember the first BET Awards.
I remember watching Jay-Z's theBlack Album concert.
The Watch the Throne concertwas just an incredible moment
for hip hop.
Kanye going against 50 Cent onthat album was an incredible
(27:59):
moment for hip hop.
I have these moments but I'mlike, when you think about the
impact the pop out had on theculture and the like, I said the
fact that he did it right.
It was all about the bars.
He even said you should keep itfriendly.
This is a philly fay.
I'm just a disclaimer don't saynames.
You don't have to get the smokeand drake couldn't, because
(28:22):
he's not a true hip-hop dude.
In my opinion, this dude onlyknows how to feed on emotions.
He was lying on a lot of stuff.
I mean the idea that you wouldfeel the need to send a fake
daughter to kendrick because youwant to mess him.
It's like that song meet thegrams, come on.
(28:42):
When I think of that song, Idon't think about the fact that
he called out you having anotherdaughter.
That's maybe on the end of theburner.
There's a lot of stuff he saidin that song that he could take
that whole verse out and itstill would be like you suck
Drake.
It doesn't matter about thisone thing that you lied to me
about.
Everything else around thatstill matters.
(29:03):
And he called out hispersonality.
I think that's something that Ido, that a lot of people don't.
I look at my artists as rolemodels, as people that I'm
inspired by John Legend's, myfavorite singer, and it's not
only because of his music beingincredible, it's because he was
relatable.
His first couple albums he wastalking about cheating on girls
and how he's working throughthat and this and that, and I'm
(29:24):
like, oh man, this is adifferent perspective, something
I never heard before.
I never heard someone be openabout that because, for sure,
growing up, I had a lot ofpeople in my life that was
unfaithful to their girlfriends,but they would keep it on the
low low.
This dude was openly singingabout it, making tunes and
talking about how he struggleswith it.
I'm doing it again, I'm doingit again.
(29:46):
He's saying it in the song withit.
I'm doing it again, I'm doingit again.
He's saying it in the song.
And each album you watched himprogress.
First two he was single.
His third album is when hestarted dating Chrissy and he
even says it on the album do Ihave a girlfriend?
Well, technically no, andChrissy hated that line because
he was like you do have agirlfriend.
And then after that he wasabout to get married All of me
(30:10):
is on the next album.
And then he's married with kids.
They're talking about makingsome little tax write-offs and
then he's a grown man after thatand I love watching him grow.
I love hearing his story.
I love following his story, hispodcast, the meals that he
makes.
He's an incredible cook.
I love his story.
(30:30):
I saw him perform at the Muniin St Louis with the St Louis
Symphony and it was one of themost incredible performances
I've ever seen in my life andthat's the type of person I try
to follow.
Everyone can be that.
I know that.
I understand there are a lot ofartists and there's artists I
struggle with.
I struggle with Chris Brown.
I artists and it's artists Istruggle with.
I struggle with chris brown.
I still struggle with chrisbrown.
I struggle with michael jackson.
I struggle with so many artists,kanye, I can't even listen to
(30:53):
kanye like I used to rightbecause of the things he done
and, like he, I think he mighthave had a new album last year.
I didn't even listen to the newalbum that was.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
This is the first kind of album I didn't listen to
you can only do so much,separating the artistry from the
artist Exactly, especiallyright now and I don't want to
(31:28):
digress too much, but I think interms of contributing to art
work on himself, but alsosimultaneously mastering a craft
that is really hard to do andmaking the craft captivating and
being dynamic and iterative,like changing up the formula and
not being formulaic.
(31:48):
It's what, similarly to JohnLegend, it's what makes Kendrick
specifically a captivatingartist too.
Yes, because, going back to thepop out, that was a meaningful
moment that was bigger than rap.
That is the idea of sort of aLA ceasefire, almost.
It's like that palpablyimportant, even if it's not the
(32:14):
thing that stops it for good.
It is goodwill and good faithand progress towards something.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yeah, he makes music that electrifies him and Drake
makes his music that pacifieshim.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
I'll double down on that line.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
You know what.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
I'm saying it's random, mexico, come on.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
So when you sit down and you think about all of what
I just said, I feel like you gotto understand why it's hard for
me to even respect Drake afterwhat's happened, because the
stuff that Kendrick was sayingabout him is stuff that I I
thought about.
I'm like ah, he does.
He's on this song with sexy red.
Is he taking advantage of herclout in the hood?
(32:54):
It and she's from St Louis.
I'm like this is somebody thatI I'm going to support no matter
what Cause.
That's my person.
And he is right there on her,her tails and her tails.
And she's this big star andeverybody's saying, well, she
should be happy, drake got onthe track.
And I'm like, why should allthese people have to be thankful
that this dude is jumping ontheir tracks?
It's, it's like, why is hedoing it?
(33:16):
Why is he down there with youngthug?
Why is he doing this with 21savage?
Why is he in future, alwayslike it's, it's.
It's so obvious that he'sjumping from person to person
for clout.
And when Kendrick calls it out,he's like I've been feeling
this way, so the fact that he'ssaying it I know I'm not crazy.
I feel like I see the samething he's saying, and on meet
(33:39):
the grounds when he say this isa long lesson on dealing with
yourself yeah.
Long battle with yourself.
It really opened my eyes evenmore to just how I'm like.
He is very insecure.
He's damn near 40 posting allthese little like duck face
selfies and bullshit and helooks performative with this
(34:00):
child.
He's doing things so peoplecould say, oh my god, he's a
great father kind of thing.
But also he's the boy and he isa bachelor.
And I mean, granted, peoplegonna do what they do, I don't.
I can't judge people for notwanting a committed relationship
, especially if they're therichest rapper out.
But right, I just don't feellike his morals.
(34:21):
His head is in the right place.
When he talks.
He sounds like he's the old catat the club trying to hang out
with the kids.
His music sounds like he's theold cat at the club trying to
hang out with the kids.
His music sounds like he's theold cat at the club trying to
hang with the kids.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yachty, can't give you no swag either.
I don't give a fuck who youhang with.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Come on now.
It's hard, I know these linesman.
No, no, we'll always know hislines.
I hate the way that you walk,the way that you talk.
I hate the way that you dress.
Come on, man.
Best thing about this thing isI've been feeling this way about
Drake for a while, but I had towatch him continue to get more
(34:59):
success, continue to rise higher, get $500 million from
Universal because he's thisgreat person, and then make all
that money back so quickly.
He's so great and it's like, ishe great?
And then true greatness comesin and says hold my beer, let me
show you what a real rapperlooks like.
(35:21):
And this dude sues him doesn'tsue him, I'm sorry, sues the
record label saying that therecord label the record label
tried to promote this song morethan mine in the.
It's a dispute against contractsand it's like you are showing
your true colors yeah, that'sthe boy right there that is the
(35:43):
boy and the idea that he's inthis world where he thinks what
he did is okay.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
How can you look at that artist, that person and
respect him, and it calls intoquestion how much he really
latched on to hip-hop teachings.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
And I know that it's been beaten like a dead horse,
the sort of commentary aroundthe lawsuit.
But if it's a hip-hop sparringmatch then it's a hip-hop
sparring match and if you setthe tone by we can make it
(36:22):
personal then you set that tone,but you're still supposed to
keep it rap.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, how are you going to?
You're going to sue somebodyfor calling you a a PDF file.
You're going to sue them, butyou literally called them a wife
beater in the song before.
Yeah, what are you talkingabout, dude?
One of the weirdest things I'veever seen in pop culture.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Sometimes I want to give Drake a little bit of
credit, going back to the ideaof him being on people's songs,
because there is a world inwhich Drake would big up
somebody or co-sign somebodythat I otherwise wouldn't have
heard about.
Even though More Life wasn't amasterpiece, it took us to the
UK scene a little bit and in2025, I don't know if I would be
(37:14):
listening to Lainey Fox or evengive Skepta the time of day or
anything like that.
Not saying that I didn't tap ina little bit, but that's where
I guess some of my conflict lies, because I remember when,
before 21 Savage's debut album,they did that collab song called
(37:37):
Sneakin' I want to say that waslike 2015, 2016.
And it was kind of like anintroductory to 21 Savage and I
was just like, wow, this song isfire, the aesthetic of the
video is fire.
That propelled me to listen to21 and become a fan.
(37:57):
But where does that line blur?
Where does it become black andwhite?
And then it becomes thatbusiness thing.
When you look through the lensof business, it's like, yeah,
man, you've just beenpositioning yourself to
ingratiate your own bank account.
Yeah, like you could give twoshits if young thug gets locked
(38:17):
up, you give two shits about theperception of sexy red and
whatever.
It's empty.
That's where it feels like alittle empty.
I want to give Drake a littlebit of credit because I have
tried to be a fan of his, but hemakes it really really, really
(38:37):
hard.
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Yeah, once again, thank you for listening to the
pod today.
I love speaking with Jay Boogieand this subject has been on
top of my list to cover, sothank you for listening through
and hopefully you're enjoyingwhat we're talking about.
Make sure to share this pod andsubscribe if you haven't
(39:01):
already.
Hit me up on Instagram if youhave any ideas for the pod.
And let's just get back intothe episode overall, with what
has happened in this beef, whereit's still pointing out, where,
like I said, we feel likekendrick's on lap 12 and he's
(39:24):
still going.
This concert, this tour, isabout to start.
Tickets are crazy.
We just got offered sometickets for $350 to go see him
here in Atlanta.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
We bought ours day one, so we're going to be in
there.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Oh man, I don't know if I could spend that much money
to go Not $350, but seeingwhere he is now and seeing how
Drake reacted with the lawsuitsand stuff and he supposedly, you
know, I don't really care howdo you feel this has impacted
hip hop as a whole?
Do you think it was good forhip hop?
Do you think it was bad for hiphop?
(39:56):
What do you think?
Because last year, even thoughNot Like Us was the number one
hip hop song and it was thenumber one song all around hip
hop kind of took a seat backduring the year.
Tyler put out an incredibleproject, schoolboy q put out a
great project.
Joey badass just did the wholething he has been doing.
Might delete.
This later came out last year.
So it was an incredible year ofhip-hop.
(40:17):
But also hip-hop wasn't sellingas much as it was the year
before that.
How do you think that like?
Do you feel like this beef wassomething that hip hop needed
and do you think that beefs likethis will continue to move the
culture forward or it mightactually impact it in a negative
way?
Speaker 1 (40:33):
I think that the beef underscored the importance of
what hip hop is at itsfundamentals.
It's about writing these raps.
We are writing these raps Interms of hip hop not selling.
I have not given that thedeepest thought, but my impulse
is to say that that has a lot todo with the music industry as a
(40:53):
machine how they promote andwhat they promote versus what
will resonate with an audience.
Yeah, With an audience.
Yeah, Because we got the GNX,which obviously was a
semi-response to the beef, but Ithink was also being worked on
prior to the beef.
It went off the charts.
(41:14):
You cited a lot of people thatmake great music and there, I
believe, are a lot more artiststhat deserve notoriety, and we
got Wiz Khalifa rapping overSquabble Up, Squabble Up.
So to me, whether it's aboutsales or whether it's about we
(41:35):
just love this shit again, thenI'm happy to get some.
We love this shit again, Evenif it's not about making money.
You mentioned Friday NightLights.
That was a mixtape.
We were back on Dat Piff in theLil Wayne era and downloading
mixtapes for free.
People who love hip hop wereconsuming it, whether they were
(41:56):
purchasing it or getting it byother means.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
And that's been a way that people have done it since
the 90s.
My mama was getting mixtapesactually tapes of UGK out of
Houston in St Louis and theywere buying them from the dude
on the bus.
He always got the bootlegs, butthat's how they were consuming
new music.
They heard NWA off of mixtape.
(42:20):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
I think it's a good thing.
Mixtape yeah, I agree with you.
I think it's a good thing.
If people want to rap more,whether their output goes up or
their creative juices areflowing, and they get more
conceptual or want to really getinto packaging and rollout,
it's going to be beneficial,because Kendrick showed us that
we can have success, we can bethoughtful, it can be polished,
(42:43):
it can be sort of punk rock inthe timelining of it all, and it
doesn't have to be overthoughtand pristine.
I'm ready for more.
I'm ready for whatever is onthe other side of this.
We don't have to cater we.
I'm speaking for artists.
I suppose they don't have to bebeholden to what Spotify is
(43:03):
going to think and maybe whenthey're doing their contracting
they can write something inabout.
Maybe albums is one thing, butmixtapes and singles or whatever
.
Lucy's is another thing and I'mnot sure what it'll bring, but
I think it's positive.
I want to see more fromeveryone and I want it to be
less affiliated with radio andstatistics.
(43:26):
That'll always be a factor, butmore art is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
More art, more art.
As an artist my next album I'vebeen pushing the idea of maybe
not really worried aboutstreaming platforms trying to
find a way to sell physicalcopies.
You know, doing vinyl would befun, actually getting people to
(43:50):
purchase the album on Bandcampand actually support me directly
when you know, I remember Itried to do a GoFundMe kind of
thing and I had somebody reachout to me.
I'll never forget this.
He was a piano player in LA andhe was like listen, dominique,
I appreciate you, but I don'tsupport artists doing GoFundMe's
for money, so I'm not gonna payany money towards it he doesn't
(44:12):
support artists, then yeah, itwas weird that he did that.
But then in my head I'm like ifI would ask him to buy my album,
I think he would have bought it.
That's kind of where my headwas.
It was like, maybe get theproject done, so that when he's
like, how can I support you here, buy it right?
Okay, great.
And that's something that Ifeel like is spreading over the
(44:33):
entire industry now.
People are trying to find waysto be more creative and
independent, not trying to relyon the big companies and the
streaming companies and stuff,and I agree I think that's come
because of a lot of the stuffthat we've been seeing here.
(44:53):
We go now Every night before wesleep, I pull you next to me.
I pull you next to me and Itell you how much I love you,
babe.
We smile and spoon away.
(45:16):
This is every day.
I hope this will remain thesame.
Flowers every week.
I kiss you on your cheek andyou beam.
(45:44):
Oh, how I love it, babe.
I wouldn't have it any otherway.
This is every day.
I hope this will remain thesame.
(46:09):
This, of course, is aperformance of my original tune
Valentine's Day.
I did this in Chicago at theLemon Bar for Valentine's Day in
2024.
And I wrote it for that actualevent and I love the song and
I'm looking forward to releasingit on my new album, dommie,
sometime this year.
(46:29):
But this is also on streamingplatforms now.
The album is here to entertainvolume two.
You can listen to my music onall streaming platforms and you
can check me out for moreinformation at domlamorecom,
where you can get anything andeverything.
Domlamore, you've passed thetest.
Every day, I check in with youto see what's new.
(46:58):
I listen and tell you all thethings I can do to help you.
Our love is the best way.
This is every day.
Who needs Valentine's Day?
(47:24):
Cheers to y'all now.
Let's hear it now.
This year, I've been doing a newsegment called you Know what I
Love.
The way this works is verysimple.
(47:44):
We usually have these deepconversations.
Today was a good one, so itwasn't negative but sometimes we
could be talking and it getsreally, really emotional hard
for people to continue.
Sometimes people have to takebreaks and I always want to find
a way to add positive stuffinto the shows, no matter what
the topic is.
So this segment you know what Ilove.
(48:06):
I'm going to tell you somethingthat I'm loving right now and
why you should love it.
And then I'll ask you the samething and you'll repeat to me
what you love it right now.
All right, so for me and like Isaid, it's very simple I'm
going to give you a very simpleone.
You know what I love.
I love Ted Drew's custard.
That's something from St Louis.
(48:28):
Here in Georgia they haveAndy's, like other places in the
country that you can get likecustard and milkshakes and
delicious ice cream.
I grew up with Ted Drew's downthe street on Grand and it is
something that I think aboutevery flipping day and I really
(48:48):
I miss that about being home.
But Andy's is down the streetfrom us now here in Georgia, so
I can go there and kind of get alittle bit of it.
But you know I can't turn theAndy's upside down without it
falling out of the cup.
That's Drew's, the concretes,you know, and I miss that and I
really, really I don't know whatit is about ice cream, but I
(49:11):
just yeah that's what I'm lovingright now Ice cream.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
We got to keep it out of the house because otherwise
it'd be gone too quick aroundhere.
Shout out Ben and Jerry's, webe at Schnucks.
Yeah, the Ben and Jerry'salways looking for the sale,
like, oh okay, right now it's$6.49.
It's a little high, but whenit's at $3.99, you better
believe we on that Ben andJerry's.
Shout out Andy's too.
(49:37):
I get the.
Sometimes I get the milkshake,sometimes I get a concrete.
I know what's up.
Shout out ice cream.
You know what I love and theycame up before.
But right now I'm loving theLakers.
Yes, and I will preface thiswith I am a peripheral NBA fan,
(50:01):
I'm not getting in there withstats, I'm not following
multiple teams and for somereason, over the past three, two
, three plus years, I just foundmyself gravitating to the
Lakers.
Yeah, and I was born in suburbsof Illinois or suburbs of
(50:23):
Chicago, so I got some.
Or suburbs of Chicago, so I gotsome like light, faint, late
90s Bulls fandom and then livedin the Atlanta area for, you
know, nine plus years, some somelate and distant Hawks.
But now I'm getting a littleolder.
Lebron James is getting older.
We've witnessed this verystoried, impeccable career over
(50:48):
the past 20-something years andI've kind of just decided that I
want to be able to talk aboutLeBron James in some capacity
and I wasn't really followingthe NBA too much when he was on
Cleveland or I caught a littlebit of the heat days, but I want
to be able to speak to what itmeant for him to be in the NBA.
(51:12):
So I've been watching him inhis Laker days and he's 40 right
now, still putting up tripledoubles.
It's insane, it's unreal.
Don't, don't try to.
If you see me on the street,let's not talk about anything
else, because I don't.
I don't know nothing aboutPhilly, I don't know nothing
(51:32):
about Toronto, but if you wantto say like, oh, austin Reeves,
he's shooting above you know Xand he had 25 points, he
shouldn't be having that, orsorry for our loss ad, we could
chat that.
But yeah, really really lovingthe lakers.
They're not even the best inthe west, you know.
So you know that's when it'slike some real, just like fandom
(51:53):
type stuff, because they got alot of heart.
I'm a miss mack christy as well.
He was doing real well ondefense, but you know, mavericks
got them one now.
So, yeah, I'm loving the Lakersright now.
Speaker 2 (52:09):
We've made it to the end of the episode.
It's always a good time, alwaysa good conversation.
Today, like I said, very light,I wanted it to just be hip hop
talk, and I always love talkingto hip hop with you.
We talked about everything wewant to talk about.
All I want to know now is howdo you feel?
I?
Speaker 1 (52:25):
feel good.
I feel we only y'all, if y'allare listening right now, we only
grazed the surface of thisKendrick Lamar Drake beef.
So the last parting words I'mgoing to say, if you haven't
dipped your toes in the questionis where have you been?
I forgive you.
Go listen to first personshooter.
(52:47):
Then go listen to like that byfuture featuring kendrick lamar.
Then go listen to push-ups andeuphoria and meet the grams and
taylor made freestyle if youwish.
Go listen to all of that, justso you understand where we're
coming from.
And then listen to G&X.
(53:07):
But no, all that to say, I'mfeeling good.
Hip hop is probably number onefavorite topic to talk about, so
I'm always going to be here forthat.
Yeah, man.
Speaker 2 (53:18):
I appreciate you, man .
Cheers to you, cheers.
I want to thank you forlistening to the Black man
Talking Emotions podcast.
The opening quote credit goesto Kendrick Lamar and shout out
to my guy, john, for being onthe pod.
(53:39):
Follow John at John Butts ishere on Instagram.
Please subscribe to the podcast, share the podcast and give us
a good rating Five stars, please, and thank you.
You can support the show byclicking the link at the bottom
of the episode description.
If you like this episode, youshould check out our previous
episode with John Butts, titledPolitical Talk with John Butts.
(54:02):
Good, listen, check it out.
Follow me at D-O-M.
Underscore L-A-M-O-U-R.
On Instagram or at DomLamorecom.
I'm Dom Lamore, much love.
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