Build Freedom Today with Ben Spangl

In Episode 256 of The Business Development Podcast, Kelly welcomes back mindset and performance coach Ben Spangl for a powerful conversation about redefining success and reclaiming freedom now—not someday. Together, they dive deep into the entrepreneurial rollercoaster, unpacking the burnout, emotional resistance, and false beliefs that keep high performers stuck in overdrive. Ben shares how he rebuilt his life after burning out, why the “sacrifice now, live later” mindset is broken, and how business owners can start designing a joyful life today without slowing their growth.

From learning to delegate and use your time more effectively, to recognizing when you're chasing validation instead of fulfillment, this episode is a wake-up call for entrepreneurs who are grinding without joy. Whether you're building a coaching business, running a podcast, or scaling a startup, Ben’s wisdom will challenge your assumptions and give you practical steps to realign with the life you set out to create in the first place. If you’ve ever wondered whether freedom and success can co-exist—this one’s for you.

Key Takeaways:

1. True freedom isn’t found later—it’s something you can build into your life today.

2. Most entrepreneurs confuse flexibility with freedom and end up designing their own prison.

3. Burnout is often the byproduct of believing your business will only grow if you suffer.

4. Delegating, automating, or deleting tasks is essential if you want to scale *and* breathe.

5. Joy isn’t a distraction from growth—it’s the fuel that makes sustained success possible.

6. Reclaiming time for things you love actually increases creativity, energy, and productivity.

7. Success that costs you everything else is not success—it’s imbalance.

8. Fear shows up in resistance—naming it breaks its grip so you can move forward anyway.

9. Mastery of your craft is what earns you freedom, but mindset is what protects it.

10. You don’t need to wait until you hit your goals to live well—you can start right now.

Looking for conversations that actually move the needle? Join The Catalyst Club at www.kellykennedyofficial.com—where real entrepreneurs get real support.

Episode Transcript

(01:06):
Welcome to episode 256 of theBusiness Development Podcast.
And today we're joined onceagain by the incredible Ben Spangle,
entrepreneur, performancecoach and host of the Pursuit Podcast.
Ben's back to drop someserious mindset wisdom and help us
rethink how we balance growth,fulfillment and freedom as business

(01:28):
leaders.
This one goes deep.
Stick with us.
You won't want to miss this episode.
The great Mark Cuban oncesaid, business happens over years
and years.
Value is measured in the totalupside of a business relationship,
not by how much you squeezedout in any one deal.

(01:49):
And we couldn't agree more.
This is the business ofDevelopment Podcast, based in Edmonton,
Alberta, Canada andbroadcasting to the world.
You'll get expert businessdevelopment advice, tips and experiences
and you'll hear interviewswith business owners, CEOs and business

(02:09):
business development reps.You'll get actionable advice on how
to grow business brought toyou by Capital Business Development,
CapitalBD CA.
Let's do it.
Welcome to the BusinessDevelopment Podcast.
And now your expert host,Kelly Kennedy.

(02:29):
Hello.
Welcome to episode 256 of theBusiness Development Podcast.
And today I am absolutelythrilled to welcome back Ben Spangle
as an entrepreneur, mindsetand performance coach, speaker and
host of the top 1% ranked thepursuit Podcast.
Ben has dedicated his careerto helping entrepreneurs, salespeople

(02:54):
and executives unlock theirfull potential.
Ben's journey from financialstruggles to leading multiple seven
figure agencies of over 80brokers is nothing short of inspiring.
He has built a life ofabundance, fulfillment and success
by mastering the power of mindset.
In this episode, we're goingto dive deep into the world of coaching,

(03:14):
podcasting and cultivating apowerful mindset, Ben is going to
reveal secrets to unlock ourmind's potential and create the lives
we've always dreamed of.
Whether you're starving formore success in your career, looking
to elevate your podcastinggame, or seeking the mindset shift
that will lead to greaterhappiness and fulfillment, Ben has

(03:35):
the wisdom and strategies toinspire and motivate us to take the
next steps forward.
Let's get ready to explore thelimitless possibilities.
It's an absolute honor to haveyou back, dude.
Kelly, so good to be here, man.
Thanks for the introduction.
I hope what we talk abouttoday, I hope I say something good
after that introduction.
You know, I look back when wehave this conversation.

(03:56):
We've had, we're friends andwe've had a lot of conversations
since our last show, which iswhere we really got to meet each
other, which is super cool.
But we did that show and itwas a new year show.
It was a New Year's 2024 show,dude, and you, like, nailed it.
It was everything we needed to hear.
Because whenever we're headinginto a new year, we're always struggling
with, like, how can we dobetter than the last year?

(04:17):
Right?
We're always trying to do alittle bit better, but my gosh, man,
trying to stay motivated,trying to stay excited, especially
as an entrepreneur, it's sucha roller coaster.
It's sometimes hard to keepthat positive mindset when it feels
like the world is burningaround you and yet the next second
something amazing could happen.

(04:38):
And then you're living oncloud nine.
But it's like, how do you, youknow, and one of the things me and
you have talked about with meand, and I've said, like, how do
I live a more balanced life?
How, how can I get off theroller coaster?
Right?
And just, and, and you'vegiven me lots of tips regarding it,
but, man, it's, it's, it'shard, it's really challenging sometimes

(04:59):
to keep that, like, to keepthat, that straight and narrow.
Yeah, I, I, I think it, ittotally is, it is hard.
And you know, especially inbusiness, right?
We're building thesebusinesses, we're building these
companies, we're growing.
We'.
Most people that are buildingtheir businesses are not saying,
you know, I just like to makea little bit of money, have a small,
little company.
I mean, that's not most of us, right?

(05:21):
Most of us are wanting tobuild something significant, something
that's got impact, somethingthat's making a difference.
And yes, something that's alsovery financially rewarding or perhaps
we've done that.
Right?
And, and you know, that comesat a cost.
That comes at a price.
There's a price foreverything, Right?
Yeah.
So I think in the space today,as entrepreneurs, as people running

(05:43):
companies, building companiesand just leaders as a whole, right?
Even if they don't own thebusiness, but they're a leader in
the organization, the demandson our time are incredibly high.
But we're living in an erawhere there was always a time where
demands as a leader were high,but now we've got demands in a way,
if we're not careful 24, 7,because we've got these cell phones

(06:05):
that you can be answeringemail any time of day, you can be
answering text.
I'm creating this new social,or I'm approving the social with
the team or whatever it might be.
And so we can literally, ifwe're not careful, if we're not intentional
if we're not making sure thatI'm designing my life today, not
just my life for the future,but my life today, we can become

(06:27):
over, consumed by it, and wecan reach the place that none of
us ever want to get to, wherewe are too burned out.
And we lose that drive, welose that passion.
We become a little more apathetic.
And I experienced it in my own life.
I've shared with you aboutthat before.
As I coach people and otherentrepreneurs, I see it happen.
I see the warning signs of it, too.

(06:48):
So it's something we reallywant to pay attention to, is making
sure we're in control of ourday as much as we can be, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know, like, over this lastyear, even since me and you talked
last, I've nearly hit thatwall and then had to back it off
and nearly hit that wall.
But, dude, it's been multipletimes where it's like, okay, like,

(07:10):
I am doing too much.
But, you know, I. I find,like, for me, I really do live there.
I almost live at that toomuch, and I. I find a way to, like,
to just decompress and take it back.
And then I do find myselfconstantly riding the limiter.
It's like I'm riding the redline, right?

(07:31):
Like, and I don't know, Like,I don't know whether that's just
me or that's, like,entrepreneurs in general.
I'm fairly consistently.
I know where my limit is, andI don't take it that far, but I've
hit.
I've had multiple times thisyear, dude, where I was like, oh,
my gosh.
Like, I don't know.
I don't know if, like, the wayI'm doing it is right or not.
And I know.
I've talked to so manyentrepreneurs about balance, dude.

(07:52):
Like, you know, especially inthe last year, it seems to come up
in, like, every singleentrepreneurial episode where we
chat about, you know, like,especially with the ones who have
found immense success.
One of the questions I alwaysask them was, did you eventually
find peace?
Did you, like, was it what youwanted it to be?
And the answer a lot of thetime I get is, yes, they are living
peacefully now.

(08:13):
Like, now that they'veachieved what they wanted to achieve,
it's like, at a certain level,then maybe they get to back off a
bit.
Maybe they get to just, like,enjoy the life that they've built
around them.
But almost all of them havepaid a pretty hefty price to get
there.
Like, yeah, you know?
Yeah.
Oh, no.
You know, for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I think it's like there's.
There's different ways to success.

(08:33):
You know, one of the things,like I'm.
I'm in the online space for alot of the coaching I do.
Right.
And as I watch that andwitness it, one of the things about
online marketers is.
And it makes sense why theywould sell this, but this is the
way.
This is the path.
So as you're buying a lot ofthese programs, all this stuff, the
way it's presented is thatthis is the way.

(08:54):
When the truth is there is noabsolute truth of this is the way.
Right.
There's so many differentways, but one of the predominant
paths, one of the culturalbeliefs in the business world is
that I'm going to have to giveup a lot for a long time to get where
I want to go.
Now, a lot of peopleexperience that, that.
That's what they do.

(09:14):
They gave up a lot.
They pay a massive price, andthen eventually they reach, you know,
perhaps the financial freedom,perhaps the wealth, perhaps they
can scale back their time inthe business.
And for some, they would sayit is worth it.
And for others, they'd say, Ilost my family.
Yeah.
And I've seen both.
I've had both of them come onand say it was horrible, it wasn't
worth it.
And I've had others say, Ilive an incredible life now.

(09:35):
Totally.
Right.
And it is so.
But that's an interestingthing too, right?
It's a really interesting thing.
So that some could go throughthat and say, man, it wasn't worth
it.
Right.
It cost me too much.
Others could go through andsay it was absolutely worth it.
One of my paradigm shifts thatI've created in my world and is.
And I like to help peoplewith, is that how do we start living
the life we want to live today?

(09:55):
Now, that may not mean thatall of a sudden I could go take,
you know, the next two monthsoff and expect my business to grow.
You may not be at that stageyet, or it may not mean that I'm
going to go buy that, youknow, home that I want right today.
But there's other thingsinside of the life that we're wanting
to live that if we neglectthem too long, we begin to become

(10:17):
maybe even unconsciously orunknowingly resentful of how we're
living.
And I witnessed this in a lotof performers.
Yeah, man.
You know what?
I.
One of the challenges that Iactually face is that the things
that used to bring me joy, Ino longer feel compelled to do them
or driven to do them.
Like, the.
The.
The harder that I focus in onone thing, I think my challenge is,

(10:39):
is that I get so caught up in.
In the work, in the grind, in the.
In the achievement that I canalmost backburner everything else.
And the scary thing about thatis, for me, Ben, is that I hit a
point where I'm like, it feelslike a waste of time to do the things
that I find, like, a lot ofjoy in, which is really weird.
And I know there's a lot ofpeople listening right now, like,

(11:00):
what are you talking about, Kelly?
Like, how could things.
You find joy and feel like awaste of time, but it's true, because
you can end up on this pathwhere you're like, I need to do a
little bit more.
I need to go a little bit further.
I need to grow a little bitmore this week, or, I need to book
another meeting, or it's likeone more, one more, one more, one
more.
And then you get to a pointwhere it's like, you don't have time
but to chase that one more,like the.

(11:21):
Everything starts to getdevoted to the next thing.
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I. I've lived that.
I. I do understand that one, too.
I was at a conference twoweeks ago with Brennan Burchard,
and the day before, they did aspecial event with Ed Mylett.
I was not at that one, butBrennan was sharing it.
And Ed, you know, you mightknow of him, some.

(11:41):
Some people listening may,some not, but the guy's.
He's probably worth 4 or 500million, you know, been incredibly
successful, is incredibly successful.
He's in his early 50s or mid-50s.
And his whole message at theconference Brennan was sharing, he
said, you know, listening toEd talk yesterday, he said, I've
done all this.
I got the jets, I got thewealth, I got, you know, all this
stuff.
And he said, but, you know,what I never really did was I never

(12:02):
allowed myself to have fun.
And so here he is in hismid-50s now, just starting to recognize
that if I could go back and doit again, I would have had more fun.
I would have found those joys.
So you're not asking, but if Iwas talking to you about this, I
would say, you know, we needto examine that thought process,
because that's what it is.

(12:23):
It's a belief.
So it says, well, I'm takingthat time.
I'm not going to go.
Which is a commonentrepreneurial block, right?
I'm not going to go.
Take time away from thebusiness to Go do something I really
do love doing because I couldput that time into the business.
If I was going to go golfing,let's say I'm going to go do X, go
to play basketball with theguys, whatever.
Rather than do that, I'll makesome more calls, I'll do some more

(12:44):
of this.
I could do an extra meetingxxx and that way I'm growing the
business.
But here's the question.
Growing the business, then todo that, that's fine.
But for what purpose?
What is the purpose that I'mdoing all this work?
To grow the business.
Yeah, yeah.
It's so funny because, youknow, I mean, I think about this
question a lot.
And you know, the whole pointwhen I started capital was essentially

(13:06):
to.
To buy myself freedom of timeto buy myself time and money to do
the things I wanted to do.
And the irony to the wholething is I do less of those things
now than I did before I was an entrepreneur.
Yeah.
And it's.
And it's a little bit crazywhen you think about it.
There's a lot of freedom tobeing an employee, like to not feeling

(13:28):
like it's all riding on you.
Like, you know, I mean, Isometimes I envy it and sometimes
I don't miss it at all.
Yeah, totally.
It's a funny paradigm mix, right?
Because you're absolutely right.
Like, the funny thing was, isthat I think a lot of business owners
think, oh, I'm going to startmy own business and I'll be able
to work my own hours and do myown thing.

(13:48):
Right.
But what you quickly realizeis it takes a lot more hours than
you think to accomplish thegoals you want to do, the growth
you want your company to do.
And I'm not saying this is everybody.
I'm sure there's somebodywho's figured out how to do it right.
But I think most of us end upworking harder and longer and more
devoted and less time with ourfamilies, less time with doing the
things we love doing thethings we used to enjoy to build

(14:10):
the business.
Because building a businesshas taken more effort than you originally
thought it would.
Yeah, there is an element to that.
There's no doubt.
Like, and it obviously dependson the nature of the business and
all that stuff.
There's various factors.
There's also, I think, aparadigm shift that's helpful that
it.
The illusion is, is that if Ido take time for the things that

(14:31):
I enjoy, that my business willbe neglected.
So this is the thought process.
Now, we could make an argumentfor it and we could Make a case.
Well, yeah, if I'm not makingthat extra appointment than X.
Right.
I would argue the other waytoday though.
And I would argue is that thelonger we neglect those things that
do bring us joy, and there'selements of your business that hopefully

(14:52):
bring joy too.
Right.
But the longer we neglect thatstuff, the less effective we become.
Because it's not just, you'renot a machine.
And if you were a machine,that'd be fine.
Where I could just input, do,do doot.
Do this task, do more of this task.
Do more of the task.
But we're not machines and youknow, by nature would be more emotional

(15:13):
creatures that happen to havestumbled into an intellect.
Right.
If you look at the animalkingdom, it's very reactionary, it's
very boom.
React to an emotion.
Right.
And humans are a form of animal.
We don't.
We're a highly evolved one.
But we develop the intellectso we can think.
But logically we say, well,I'm not going to take that time because
that takes away from the business.

(15:33):
But emotionally we begin tobecome depleted.
And if we deplete it too long,then, well, not even too long.
But our productivity based onthe hours we're putting in, begins
to diminish.
So I've found at this stage ofmy life that, you know, into my second
business where I will never goworking what I once worked in my

(15:54):
previous one, I'll never do it.
I don't have any desire to.
And this business is still growing.
It's, you know, and wayquicker than I grew my first one.
Obviously, I've got betterskills, better understanding, better
mindset, all that stuff.
Right?
Yeah.
But I'm also living my lifewith a lot more today of how do I
experience joy now?
And here's what I'm finding.

(16:15):
What I'm finding is, is thatthe more I allow space for that,
the more effective andcreative I become in the work that
I do do.
So it's a paradigm shift.
And honestly, it's one ofthose ones that you have to experience
it in order because we couldtalk about it.
But until somebody experience,we don't, we may not believe it.
Right.
Yeah.
And I think, like, you know,I'm not sure I would believe it if

(16:37):
we weren't friends and Ididn't follow you on social.
But I know, I know that youspend a lot of time enjoying your
life, going to seminars youwant to check out, going to events
you want to check out, goingon trips with your family, spending
great time, quality time with,with your Wife and kids.
Like, I think, you know, Ilook at you and I, I think, oh my

(16:58):
gosh, I sure hope one day I'mlike Ben Spangle.
I really do.
Because I, I, I life.
And I'm like, this is amazing.
Like, and you do that andyou're successful and you're growing
consistently and you'reachieving so much, but it seems like
you have managed to, toachieve and have freedom.
And I think that there's a lotof entrepreneurs who are like, how
do you do that?

(17:18):
Yeah, well, and it's, it's agreat question, right?
So it's like, for me, it was,I'm not calling it right or wrong
way, but doing it a way for aperiod of time where I was under
the illusion.
And you brought it up earlier,Kelly, but you brought it up.
Like, when I got intobusiness, I thought I had this freedom.
And what I learned was in theearly stages of my first business,

(17:40):
I didn't have freedom.
I had flexibility.
Two very different things.
Right side flexibility.
And so I had my first severalyears of struggle.
And my first business was aninsurance business.
As you know, I was building that.
And literally my first threeyears were just failure, failure,
failure.
But I was also, I was learninghow to be an entrepreneur.
And I was learning that thedownside, the dark side of flexibility

(18:02):
and, or freedom, if you wantto call it, when you're not ready
for that.
Right?
Which I was so young and naive.
Then I went to the Pendulum.
The other way of really, I canlook at it today and say I did give
up a lot of freedom, although,you know, maybe I could have done
it differently.
There was a period where I did.
Then I got to a period where Iwas like, man, are we allowed to

(18:22):
swear on this show?
Is that okay?
Not okay, go for it.
I'll just say, F this I got toappear where I was like, man, f this,
I'm not going to do this anymore.
And kind of swung it to apoint where I was so withdrawn and
so apathetic that I thought, Idon't want to live like that anymore.
And so then I.
So it took me, you know, I hadto get to extremes.
And I'm not saying people haveto do that because we could bypass

(18:43):
that if we try it.
I was not even willing toentertain the idea that I could go
and do more of the things thatI enjoyed and had fun with and my
business would actually growfrom it.
It was so counter intuitive,countercultural, defied logic.
But what I'm inviting anyonelistening to do is Just try and you

(19:05):
don't need to go too extreme.
But if you're at that pointwhere maybe I'm neglecting some of
those other things that Ireally do enjoy doing, can you carve
out some time to do it?
I was with an entrepreneur,runs a good company and insurance
business out in Montreal.
Guy's a great guy.
He's got, you know, they'redoing probably close to a couple
million a year in it.
Pretty good for a, you know,life insurance business.
Yeah.
And.
And.

(19:25):
And he works lots, like many do.
Right.
And so we're having a coachingcall and we're talking everything,
and.
And I said, just tell me aboutyour dream, like, what you love.
And he starts describing his life.
I said, what's your ideal day?
You know, how would you loveto have your day?
And he tells me he still wantsto keep working.
He's not like, want to retireor anything.
And he goes, you know what I'dlove to do, though?
He's like, I love Old Montrealand I'd love just to go for a walk,

(19:47):
you know, once or twice a week.
And I said, okay, what'sstopping you from going for once
or twice a week for a walkright now?
And it was this idea is that,well, I could be doing something
else.
Yeah.
And so my challenge to himwas, go for the frigging walks, dude.
Go enjoy it.
So here's a thought processthat helps.
I think, you know, everyonelistening is a different age.

(20:09):
But no matter what your age,whether you're in your 30s or in
your 40s, your 50s, your 60s,your 70s, here's the matter of fact
reality.
Every single one of us isgoing to die at some point.
We have no idea when.
We all hope to live a long life.
Hopefully we live into our 80sor 90s, maybe even into the hundreds.
I hope to live into myhundreds, you know, hopefully.
But we also know the fragilityof life and that that can be taken

(20:33):
away in an instant.
Of course.
Yeah.
So one reflection point that Ifind is very valuable.
Let's say I found out I had 10years left today.
Let's just say I was able,somehow able to figure that out.
I had 10 years.
How would I want to be livingmy life?
What would I want to be doingwith my time?
How would I be running my business?

(20:53):
Because it's not like I justwalk away from my business.
It's part of my mission.
It's part of my purpose.
I feel called to it.
Yeah, right.
And if I found out I had 10years left, to live.
And I said I'd be living thisway, but this is how I'm living today.
And these two are not really aligned.
That's probably worth some investigation.
Yeah, it's probably worth some investigation.

(21:16):
Right.
Because we just don't know.
We just don't know.
So could I incorporate maybeI'm not ready to do a wholesale change,
but could I slowly start toincorporate a little bit of this
and then notice, pay attentionto, wow, my business is still growing.
Interesting.
Yeah.
One of the.

(21:36):
One of the questions that Ihave when I hear this, and I can
already hear, like,entrepreneurs literally asking this,
and they say, ben, I feel likeI don't have the time.
Like, I don't have time as itis right now to do the things I need
to do with my business.
Now, one could argue thatthey're probably working too hard
as it is.
Like, that's possible.
Yeah.
Right.
But the argument, as far asthey're concerned, is I'm putting

(21:58):
in the amount of effort ittakes to grow.
I guess my question to you is,how do you find out how much effort
it actually takes to grow?
Because I think, like yousaid, what it is, it's a disconnect
between what it really takes.
Right.
And what you think it takes.
So I think, again, changingeven one distinction, if we could

(22:18):
change the word effort toperhaps, you know, if we look at
effort and then we look atproductivity and effectiveness.
Often productivity andeffectiveness requires effort.
But there are many people thatput in many hours of effort, but
their productivity andeffectiveness is limited.
Right.

(22:38):
So if we can look at ways,okay, how might I be able to increase
my productivity and effectiveness?
And here's the best example.
And I promise you, you've done this.
Everybody listening has done it.
You've got a vacation coming up.
You're going to be gone for aweek, two weeks, whatever.
And you know, you've got a tonof shit to get done.
Yeah.
And you've only got four daysto do it before the vacation comes
up.
And have you not reached thatstate where you are just, like, crushing

(23:00):
the to do list?
Have you experienced this before?
Something like it.
Not only crushing the to dolist, but feeling immensely stressed
out.
Okay, well, hopefully get youout of that.
Yeah.
Bring out two.
How the heck do I do, like,the handful of things that I can't
do no matter how much I try toget them done ahead of time?

(23:21):
There are things that have tohappen real time, too.
And figuring out how the heckdo I get these things done real time
without robbing from My familyon vacation.
Right.
Okay, so we got some work todo there.
Let's think about that.
Right.
But we also know that I'm ableto get a lot more done when that
sense of urgency I have notyet accessed.
How do I get my vacationurgency to my day to day?

(23:42):
I've not quite figured thatout yet, but I have definitely got
to a point where I've becomesignificantly more productive and
effective.
So the second thing too isthat if I'm already feeling maxed
out.
One of the things we need tolook at, there's a formula.
D, A D, the dad formula.
Okay.
Have I talked about this before?
I think briefly in the last show.
Okay, we did.
Okay, cool.
So the first thing is delete.

(24:03):
What can I delete?
Because sometimes we don't stop.
We're just so busy being busy.
We're building the business,we're doing the stuff, we're making
the calls.
And especially if we'rerunning, you know, it's us.
Right.
For the most part.
Right.
I'm doing the prospect, I'mdoing the sales call, I'm doing the
back end side, I'm doing allthis stuff.
Sometimes we need to stop andtake a look at what can I actually
delete.
Is there any, and I'm notsaying there is, but it's worth looking

(24:24):
at.
Is there something that I'mdoing that actually doesn't need
to be done or doesn't reallymove the needle?
The second thing, the A.
So the dad is automate.
What am I doing that could be automated?
And again, I'm not sayingthere always is, but often there
is.
Even if it's something smalland if it's that small task that
you're doing all the time, butnow it's automated even a little

(24:45):
bit better.
It frees up a bit of your time.
More importantly, it frees upsome of your energy because your
level of effectiveness isgoing to be based on the level of
energy you can bring to thegiven task.
And, and the last one's delegate.
And this is a hard one forbusiness people.
We don't want to delegatebecause they're not going to do it
as good as me.
Yeah, right.

(25:07):
But it's hard to scale andit's hard to really grow if we can't
give up the reins a little bit.
Yeah, right.
We don't get to multi millionsby trying to do it all ourselves.
Or if we do, we're going tofriggin hurt ourselves in the process.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So those are a couple ideasaround that anyways, Right?

(25:29):
Yeah, yeah, it, it is good, I think.
Yeah.
I think delegation, like yousaid, that's the hard one for all
of us.
Like we all struggle with thatand it's for that very reason.
It's like you think that yougrew your business because it was
you and you did the work andyou put it.
And maybe it was.
But you're right, it's likethe, at some point you're not going
to have the time to keep it upat the exact same level as you did

(25:50):
before.
Especially if you're taking onnew projects.
Yeah, you're growing, Right.
At some point you have to find ways.
But like, you know, what ifthey are single person companies,
you know, like how do theymanage that if they don't necessarily
have someone to delegate to?
Like what are, what are thesolutions that you suggest?
Well, there's different stages though.
Here's the thing, right?
If I say like I'm a singleperson company, I've got zero revenue

(26:11):
and I've, you know, I've, Idon't have any credit that I'm willing
to use to score this business.
So that's a stage, right,where my options are pretty limited.
Yeah, right.
They're definitely pretty limited.
Another stage though is I'm asingle person company.
Maybe one, one person, twoperson, whatever.
But I've got some revenuecoming in, right.
It may not be where I want itto be yet, but I have revenue coming

(26:33):
in.
It's.
I'm, I'm a big fan and Iunderstand not every single business
can use this, but most can ofvirtual assistants.
You know, I, I use the one Iwork with, she's from the Philippines
and there's many places youcan get them.
But as you're probably wellaware, but I mean we can get people
that can do a lot of stuff fora fraction of the cost of what, you

(26:54):
know, you and I live inCanada, but it'd be the same in the
States.
Probably similar in Europe too.
I don't know.
But a fraction of the cost.
I'm a big fan of that.
As quick as possible.
And if you say, well I can't,I can't have somebody full time.
You don't need somebody full time.
Get a part time va.
Some of them will even pick upcontract work as needed.
So here's a good formula.
Whatever your business is,you're selling some product or service,

(27:15):
that's the end product orservice that's being sold.
That's what generates revenue.
You.
Right.
So if you think of, okay, ifI'm going to pay someone X an hour.
Let's say you could paysomebody, you know, whatever you
pay them, 5 bucks an hour, 10bucks an hour, whatever you pay.
Right.
I mean, some.
They might be able to do less.
I don't know if I'm going topay someone for that time to do this
task that I'm doing right now.
Right.
Like, can you think of a taskthat you do right now that you probably

(27:38):
don't need to do, you couldhave someone else do?
Yeah, probably.
Like managing my social media.
Managing your social.
Okay, so, so that could be an option.
And when you say managing, isit more kind of like posting and
you know.
Yeah, yeah, like handling the posts.
Like, obviously, you know, ifyou run a podcast, there's lots of
social media going out at anygiven time.
Right, sure.
So yeah, like clip creation,all sorts of stuff.
So yeah, you name it.

(27:58):
Beautiful.
Okay, great.
So this is a great example ofa va, Right.
How many hours are you okay ifI ask you this stuff?
Yeah, absolutely.
How many hours a week do youthink you use on that?
Oh, goodness, that's a reallygood question.
I'm not sure that I've evercalculated it, but yeah, like, you
know me, I'm on, I'm on mysocials quite a bit.
I would say I'm probablydedicating at least four to five
hours a week to social.

(28:19):
Perfect.
Four to five hours a week.
So let's say you had someonethat could take the show.
They could.
And there's lots of softwarethat does this too now.
But you probably use some of it.
They could then go clip it upfor you.
Right.
And maybe it's not, you know,it's not Kelly perfection yet.
Maybe.
Right.
But it's 80% or 70% as good.
Sure.

(28:40):
I would argue though thatsometimes the people you can hire
are better than you at this stuff.
Yes, sometimes they are.
Right, right.
So anyways, but let's say itwas 75.
80% is good.
And let's say it's five hoursa week.
And if we did rough math,let's say you even paid them 10 bucks
an hour, which, you know, Imean, some bas are like three to
five men.
Ten bucks an hour, that'd be$50 a week for five hours of your

(29:05):
time that you freed up.
Right.
So you'd have to spend $50.
Now, I think over time youwould find someone that would.
Could do a better job than you.
You.
But even if they did anidentical job or even not quite as
good, but they freed you upwith five hours each week.
Four or five hours.
What would then becomepossible for you with the extra four
or five hours?
Well, you could immediatelysay, I could make more calls.

(29:27):
Yeah.
So, I mean, just from a purebusiness perspective, if we forget
the joy part, the conversationwe just had, which I don't want to
forget, but just purely from abusiness, if I freed up those five
hours and let's say you madeprospecting calls just two of those
five hours, how much potentialrevenue could be generated in that
time versus the time you'respending on the social?

(29:48):
Yeah.
Like you're making theargument that there's better use
cases for your time.
Well, guaranteed, I guarantee you.
And not only is there betteruse cases, in order for us to create
the real freedom we want, wehave to do this.
Because it's not just.
It's not just from thebusiness perspective in terms of
grow the business, grow therevenue, make the money.
Yes, but you said, and I thinkalmost every entrepreneur that starts

(30:11):
their business would say thesame thing.
I got in my business because Iwanted to create freedom.
And then we get into businessand we fall into these traps that
the very business we start forfreedom has become in some ways,
our own prison.
Yeah.
Well, it's funny because youstarted this conversation when we
talked about entrepreneurshipand we talked about how life is very

(30:32):
different now for anentrepreneur, specifically that we
have to be available.
Like, it feels like availableall the time.
Right?
It feels like we do.
Yeah.
When the cell phone came out,it was like.
And, you know, let's not eventalk about social.
When the cell phone came outnow we were able to be reached off
hours, off work hours.
Right.
And then if you get into thesocials aspect of it now, the world
that, like, me and you livein, because we're both coaches, we

(30:54):
both host podcasts, we both.
We're both have to put stuffout there right now, the socials
might as well be another jobon top of the job you already have.
And then let's add onpodcasting, which me and you both
do.
Add podcasting onto that andanother job.
Right.
So an entrepreneur now is nolonger just an entrepreneur doing

(31:14):
the business that they set outto do.
They have to be a forwardface, a public face.
Maybe they have a show, maybethey're a thought leader.
Oh.
And on top of that, maybethey're trying to build their own
personal brand on social,because now that's part of the requirements
of being an entrepreneur at acertain level.
So it went from oneresponsibility, one job, to three

(31:35):
jobs.
And we're all running that rat race.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy.
Yeah.
I'm, I'm, I.
One of the concepts I love isjust the phrase by design.
Right.
So we're working on creatingour life by design.
We become more intentional.
How do I want to be living mydays today?
Right, there's how do I wantto live my days when I've got the
millions, when I've got.
Right, we've got that.

(31:56):
But then there's also thebusiness by design.
And thinking about how do Iwant to be, how do I want to be running
my business?
How would my ideal business berunning today?
And you might say ideally.
Well, ideally we've got whatever.
We've got 50 salespeople andwe've got this and all.
And that may be the biggerterm vision.
Right.
Or they're at 50 and they wantto go to 500 and that may be the
bigger term.
But how do we begin living my,at least some of my ideal business

(32:19):
stuff today?
And this did model I think isreally important to look at because
it's, it's probably less moneythan you think it is.
But they freed up energy and time.
Even if all you did wasreinvest that energy and time into
revenue generating activity inthe business.

(32:39):
Right.
Even if.
And we were using the exampleof social.
But there's other stuff.
There's email, right.
Like I don't check my email.
I shouldn't say that.
I do check my email, but Ibasically only respond when my assistant
tells me, hey, I need you tolook at this one.
Okay.
So that's a small, small task,right, that, you know, I'm still
addicted to email even thoughit's not my.
Right.
Because that's the way they're designed.

(32:59):
Yeah.
I still check it more than Ineed to, but I'm not the one responding
to most the emails.
You know, like in, in thepodcast stuff.
We put a pause on the podcast.
But at the time my job was record.
Yeah, that's it.
Right.
And then I'd hand it off and,and same thing for social.
So like I obviously if you,you know, see some of my social,
there's videos of me talking acourse I created that.

(33:21):
But then in terms of clippingit up and everything that's handed
off.
Yeah.
Right.
So anyways, I think it costsless, especially today because we
can like va work is so, sowidespread and there's great people
out there and, and it's, it'san underutilized tool.
So.
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I totallyhear you especially on, like, the
podcast production side.

(33:42):
I still produce my own show.
I. I have since, like, day Go,and every time I go and I get that
quote for, like, the cost ofpodcast production.
And, like, for those of youlistening, it's about four to five
hundred bucks an episode.
It's not cheap.
And so if you ultimately areputting out multiple episodes, like,
for me, I've always looked at it.
I'm like, ben, I can't.
Like, I can't.
Yeah, I can't justify thatright now.
Well, you.

(34:03):
But maybe one day.
I'm with you on that stuff, too.
I think the podcast agenciesare extreme for what they charge.
Crazy, right?
And to me, that's not worth it.
But I would argue, though, isthat you could take a lot off your
plate by not getting a podcastagency, by literally getting a virtual
assistant that knows how to dosome video editing.
This is all they need.

(34:24):
I mean, they know how to triman audio, how to cut it.
So they've got some audio,they've got some video.
You could probably findsomeone that could do that for you
for, I'm guessing, but maybe 500amonth.
A thousand a month.
Now, because I know what doesgo into a podcast, because originally
I was doing my own when Ifirst started mine, so I know the
amount of time, but I wasdoing an episode a week, not two

(34:45):
a week.
Right.
Yeah.
So.
So it's double.
But if you could free up thatediting time and let's say it was
even a thousand bucks a month,you might just ask yourself, what
would I need to generate forme to feel good about that?
Well, to me.
A thousand dollars.
Yeah.
If I could just generate athousand dollars to free up my time,

(35:06):
then it would be worth it,because now you've saved X amount
of dollars.
Our time.
Pardon me?
X amount of hours.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, the edit, thepodcast has been one of those things
that I've really struggled tolet go.
Right.
Like, like, you and me bothknow, like, the podcast is just over
and above for what.
What my life actually is.
Right.
Like, most of the stuff I'mdoing is, like, active bd.

(35:26):
It's doing coaching like, youand the podcast is, like, my passion.
I like.
I love the podcast.
I love the podcast.
Right.
Like, it really is a passion project.
Like, me and you both knowthat, like, getting sponsors for
a podcast is a challenge.
Making those negotiations.
And, like, we're super grateful.
We have amazing sponsors, andit's awesome.
But, like, it's not.

(35:46):
It's not millions of dollars.
At least not Yet.
Maybe one day.
Maybe one day it is, but it'snot there yet.
Right.
And so it really is.
Podcast is a labor of love.
And me and you both know that,like, you, you're.
You're a top 1% podcast.
I'm not even top.
So, you know, the labor oflove it takes to show up week over
week over week, month overmonth, year over year to deliver

(36:07):
a show.
You know, understand yourpodcasters out there, they do it
because they love it.
They're not.
It's.
It's not making them typicallymillions of dollars.
Unless, you know, you're JoeRogan, right?
Yeah, totally.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
At that scale, definitely.
Right?
Yeah.
But it's good to think about,because that's a good point too.
Is like, not just foryourself, but let's say someone else
is wanting a podcast and youcan translate podcast or something

(36:29):
else.
Right.
What else am I doing that Icould maybe have someone else doing?
And then in your world, okay,there's not really much I might do
in the podcast that's going togo cover that, per se.
Maybe there is.
Maybe there I can make somemore sponsor calls, could do whatever,
sure.
But certainly in your BDworld, in your coaching world, let's
say that was another four orfive hours a week or however long
that is.

(36:49):
Yeah, that can be.
I mean, man, half of that timededicated to connecting with people,
reaching out.
Half of that time wouldprobably end up yielding, if you
look at it, over the course ofa month, two months, three months.
Geez.
I mean, the ROI compared towhat you would earn in that prospecting
time compared to, you know,using the time to edit.

(37:10):
Right.
And I promise you, you'll findsomeone that can edit just as good
as you, I'm sure.
No, I know, I know you'reright, dude.
But I still feel like.
It's so funny.
I still feel the, like,abrasion to what you're saying.
Right.
What is it, though?
Like, what is it?
What's what?
What's the reservation?
I don'.
If I have the right answer.
That, man.
I don't know.
I.
What if you tried?

(37:31):
If I gave that up, then.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You really have to, like, you really?
Yeah.
I don't know.
And it's so funny because Iknow I'm not alone in this, and I
know there's, like,entrepreneurs listening to this conversation
right now.
They're like, I get it.
I totally get it.
There's things I don't want togive up either.
And I'm not even.
I'm not Even sure if it's irrational.
I'm not even sure if it makesany sense that I still want to, like,

(37:52):
hold this tight to my chest.
But there's like.
Like, there's things like theediting, man, I still just want to
hold tight to my chest.
Do you love doing it?
I do.
I do enjoy the edit.
I do.
And.
And I learned, and I think Itake pride in the edit.
You know what I mean?
Like, I think for me, it'ssomething that, like, I started out
and I don't know about you.
I don't know about you.
When you started your show, Ihad zero audio editing experience.

(38:14):
I have learned it all fromjust square nothing, right?
And I think, like, consideringthat I came into it with no knowledge
whatsoever, I would say thatI'm probably damn near an audio engineer
at this point.
That's just from, like, justfrom experience, right?
Like, by the time you produce256 shows, sure, you know what you're
doing.
Right?
And it's.
It's something that I thinkI've gotten fairly good at, and it's.

(38:36):
Right.
Like, I have the way that Ilike to do it, and I think there's
just a big part of me that'ssuper reluctant to let it go, even
though I.
You are completely right.
You are completely right for atime for, like, a use case for Kelly
Kennedy's time.
Probably a shitty use case formy time.
Well, what would you do withan extra five hours in your a week
right now?
What would you love to do withan extra five hours?

(38:57):
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Like, almost anything.
Probably, like, you know, atthe end of the day, I.
Well, okay, hold on.
Maybe not.
Maybe that's a shitty answer.
I'm.
I'm gonna.
I'm gonna go back on this, andI'm gonna say, I think one of my
challenges right now is Iwould probably find more work to
do.
And I know that sounds really crappy.
Okay.

(39:17):
But for whatever reason, thatdoes seem to be, like, where I'm
at at this point of myentrepreneurial journey, where if
I free up time, even thoughdeep down I think I want the answer,
I know.
I know Kelly Kennedy wants theanswer to be, oh, I'm gonna go enjoy
it.
I'm gonna go, like, I'm gonnago, like, ride my bike or I'm gonna
go on a run, or I'm gonna gohang out with my kids, or I'm gonna

(39:40):
go see a movie, whatever.
Right?
But, like, I think right now,and, you know, I've ended up on this,
like, fallacy.
And I know I've had plenty ofarguments with other entrepreneurs
and conversations with them.
I'm like, they're like, do youfeel like this?
And they're like, yeah,because when you free up more time,
for me, the.
The default, and it's like, Idon't know whether it's just like,
my default right now or mydefault always now is like, okay,

(40:03):
if I have five extra hours,how can.
How can I take the podcast tothe next level?
How can I reinvest that in capital?
How can I coach more peopleand help more people?
Okay.
Like, I think that's where mymind ends up going.
So let's play that out.
That's fine.
If that's where it goes.
That's where it goes.
That's where you're at.
That.
Let's play it out.
Is editing going to take yourpodcast to the next level?

(40:26):
Maybe not.
Maybe not.
Well, assuming someone coulddo, you know, as good a job of you.
Yeah, sure.
Is you doing the editing.
If someone could do as good ajob as you, is that going to bring
the podcast to the next level?
You specifically being the one editing?
Yeah, okay.
Probably not.
No, probably not.
It's not.
If someone could do as good ajob, or let's even call it close,
to which there's people thatcan do as good a job.

(40:47):
There's people that could dojust as good, if not better, if better.
Right?
Yeah.
So that's not going to bringit to the next level.
So that's fine.
So if we play it out that way.
Right.
If we play it out that way,then, okay, if I'm going to free
up that time now, I could beusing stuff that.
How could I take the podcastto the next level?
Right.
With that time, how could Iget, you know, grow the coaching

(41:08):
reach more people, serve at ahigher level?
Well, now I've got time.
It's like that paretoprinciple, right?
20% of activities produce 80%of the results.
Probably a step further iseventually we'd like to get our business
to what's the 5 and 95, wherethe 5% of things that only I can
do and I can outsource theother 95, and I'm not quite there
yet.
Yeah.
You know, I. I really do think.

(41:30):
I don't think that this iseasy for anybody, Ben.
You know, I mean, like, thereality is, like, you're an expert
in this field, and even youstruggle with it.
And it's funny because, like,I look at that sometimes I Have I
coach people in businessdevelopment and they'll say, oh,
Kelly, you know, like, Ireally struggle to make the calls.
Like, the calls are really,really hard.
And me sitting down and doingthe time to do that, and I just kind

(41:50):
of look at them and I say, me too.
Like, me too.
Like, you're not alone.
And so I think it's reallycool that you're like, hey, I'm not
really.
I still struggle with thistoo, because I've been doing business
development at this point,making calls for 15 plus years, and
I still have days where I'mlike, for goodness sakes, do I have
to make the calls today?
But.
But, you know, I don't spendtoo much time there.

(42:11):
I try to just move to theaction and get it done.
And usually once I getstarted, it's no big deal.
Right.
But there is that resistance.
Right.
It's that resistance that I'mfeeling in this, like, with, like,
I want to produce my show.
It's that same stupid resistance.
Yeah.
That you almost have to justbe like, hey, yeah, that's cool,
but we're still gonna do thisother thing anyway.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(42:32):
But mindset, man, like, youknow, you're.
This is your world.
Mindset is your world.
How do we get to a point wherewe can bypass that resistance?
Because we're all feeling the resistance.
For some, it might be cold calls.
For me, it might be producingmy show, you know, for you, who knows?
But we're.
We all have that point of resistance.

(42:53):
What is it that makes me pickup my phone and start making the
calls, even though I don'tfeel like it?
You know, what is it that it.
I. I don't even know if I canput the two and two together in my
head.
I just know I have to do it,so I do.
Yeah, well, mindset's a broad term.
Right.
You know, obviously.
And mindset could be takenmany ways.

(43:13):
The way that we think, peoplesay, I got a positive mindset, this
guy's got a negative mindset.
They might think, you know,I've got a.
He's got a business mindset.
That person's got an employee mindset.
So often when we're talkingmindset, we're talking about the
way that we think.
And the way that we think isdramatically influences the outcomes
in our life.
Yeah, right, Dramatically.
But.

(43:33):
But there's more to it thanjust the way that we think.
So when we think ofresistance, I'm resisting doing this
thing.
That would probably bebeneficial for me.
Right.
Beneficial for the business.
Beneficial for me, beneficialfor my health benefit, whatever it
might be, right?
I've got that resistance.
Resistance shows up in twoways, usually tied together.

(43:55):
There's a thinking componentto resistance.
You know, I should do that.
But.
But often the bigger stickingpoint is the emotional resistance
that's showing up.
And the emotion shows up.
And you know, especially as,like, we're both guys.
So a lot of males, like, well,no, not me.
Like, I don't have fear.
You know, bull.
I mean, everybody does and itshows up.

(44:17):
But that's often if we thinkabout, you know, call reluctance
as an example in a sales typebusiness, which everybody struggles
with, at least for a period,if not maybe their whole career,
right?
Where we're.
Hes make those calls, we don'twant to make them.
Once we start doing it, we get going.
But there's an emotional blockto it.
There's a fear.
And the unspoken fear, ofcourse is like, what if they don't
like me?
What if it all goes back to afear of rejection?

(44:40):
Which is both genetically programmed.
Certainly for a lot of, youknow, a lot of generations in us
environmentally program, youknow, as we start growing up, we're
programmed to really seekapproval everywhere.
Even today, social media isall about approval.
It's like, you know, it's,it's a validation form, right?
It can be used for other things.
But so most of our society,even today, the programming that

(45:01):
is constantly being influencedto us is, you know, make sure you
care about what other people think.
Right?
They're not going to use thatsentence, but you should be worried
about what other people think.
It's a massive, massive thingthat we grew up with and we're still
experiencing today.
So of course in callreluctance, it's obvious where that

(45:22):
shows up.
But that is an emotional blockand a thinking.
So it's like this thinking andfeeling loop.
Loop.
So how do we break free from it?
Is the question, how do westart to shift some of these areas
where I may be experiencingresistance, it might not be making
the calls, right?
Might be experiencingresistance and getting to the gym.
Might be experiencingresistance in, you know.
Well, we just talked about thepodcast, like giving up, you know,

(45:44):
giving up that, that task inmy business and, and handing it off
to somebody else.
Maybe I'm resisting that.
There's reluctance there.
So there's a, there's athought process or a belief behind
it.
It.
But then often, if not all thetime, there's an emotional component
to it, an inner block that way.
So what I'm fascinated by isLearning how to achieve more emotional

(46:07):
mastery.
I'm fascinated by it.
Because if you actually lookat what gets us to do the things
that we want to do, why do wesometimes not do the things that
we know we want to do andwould be good for us?
Why do we do the thingssometimes that we know are not great
for us and we don't want todo, but yet we do them?
This is where we're driven bythese emotions, these underlying

(46:29):
stored emotions.
So emotional mastery to me isnot the emotion comes up and I squash
it.
That is not emotional mastery.
Right.
That's just suppressing itfurther for it to only come up later.
But emotional mastery isreally about.
It's almost like an alchemist,in a way, is how do I turn that emotion
into something more empowering?

(46:50):
You with me?
Yeah.
So the best simple path.
I'll give a real simple answer.
I got an entire method that weuse to help people break through
this.
But there's a real simpleanswer, really.
When we're stuck, when we'reblocked, let's use call reluctance.
Right.
They're in sales, they're inbusiness development, or they own
the business.
They got to make the calls,they got to get the prospects.
Let's just face it.
Fear comes up for a lot ofpeople, if not all of us.

(47:13):
Yeah.
Most of us, what we try and dois we try and talk ourselves out
of it.
Right.
It's going to be okay.
You know, what if it goes good?
And maybe we even got a listof affirmations we're using and we're
trying to, like, you know, andthat used to be my old style.
Right.
Was just like, think my wayout of it.
But it's.
It's hard to think yourselfout of negative emotional state.
It's not impossible, but it'shard to think yourself out of it.
Sure.

(47:34):
Sometimes we practice itenough that we can just summon the
courage.
Right.
So the fear comes up.
But I've trained myself thatI'll act in spite of fear anyways.
That's a good place to be.
Yeah.
I was gonna say, I thinkthat's probably the answer to when
I make my calls.
Right.
It's like I know that it's notgonna kill me.
It's like, I've done it enoughtimes that I know the outcome's probably
gonna be good.
Yeah.
So I just skip past it.
But that doesn't mean that I'mnot afraid in the moment.

(47:55):
That doesn't mean that Ididn't get.
Didn't have a moment.
Right.
I couldn't agree more.
So, like, real tactical, we'rein that situation.
Just click dial, boom.
You know, I mean, the longerthe brain can think about it, the
worse.
The higher the cliff jump is, right?
You're gonna make it.
Yeah, yeah.
But the other thing, too, iswe can learn how to release emotions.
And one of the easiest ways,too, is just to acknowledge it comes
up.
So, you know, we often willtry and run away from these negative

(48:18):
emotions.
We'll pretend they're not there.
We're trying to change them, everything.
Let's say the fear comes up,and this is a small example, making
calls.
So you've got your prospect list.
You want to go make your calls.
You're feeling, you know, Idon't know.
And maybe you're getting alittle stuck where you're not making
the calls like the peopleyou're coaching.
Right.
Where I'm just having a hardtime making the calls.
Totally is.
Just in the moment when itcomes up is just to acknowledge that

(48:41):
the fear is there because wetry and run from it so much, but
say, oh, interesting.
I can tell there's a fear there.
Not I am fearful.
Not I'm afraid to make thecalls, but I can tell there's a fear
there.
Sometimes that alone just topause, bring awareness to it, it
separates you from the fear.
It's no longer I am fearful,but instead there's a fear present.

(49:04):
I was doing a group coachingcall today, and I used an analogy
that if we'll just do it withyou, let's say when fear comes up
for some stage in yourbusiness, you got like, you know,
it's a big prospecting calleror whatever, but it comes up for
something.
Do you know where you feelthat in your body?
Like, yeah, I tend to.
I tend to feel it in my chest.
You feel it in your chest.
Okay.

(49:24):
Like a tightening, probablykind of closing, almost.
Yeah, you bet.
Yeah.
Yeah, me too.
So.
So you know where you feel it.
So in the moment, rather thantry and change it, I mean, we could
just hit dial.
That's fine too, Right?
But you could also just pause.
We're talking, like 30 seconds.
We're not talking a long time.
Pause.
Close my eyes.
Notice.
Okay.
Hey, I can notice there's fear coming.
Where am I feeling it?

(49:45):
And then I'll notice it rightin the chest.
Yeah.
And I'll say, oh, interesting.
There's fear in the chest.
And the analogy I give is,like, the fear in the chest is not
you.
You can notice the fear isthere in the act of noticing I don't
have to be the fear.
It's just like, if my arm got cut.
Right.
The arm's cut right here onthe forearm.

(50:07):
The arm's cut.
But that doesn't mean that Iam cut, if that kind of makes sense.
I'm not sure if that fullymakes sense when the fear comes up
and I.
It's like if we don't learn toseparate the fear from us, then we
become the fear.
And when you're in thatfearful state, you're probably not

(50:28):
doing your best work.
No, it's super overwhelming.
Right.
But.
But there is a way to separatefrom it, and the easiest way is to
notice it.
Yeah.
And just notice it's there.
And then if you just accept it.
Yeah.
There's some fear there.
Right.
Have you ever had a time inyour life where something.
There was like, you know, amajor problem going on, and finally

(50:49):
you got to a place where youjust accepted that.
That.
That is what that is.
Yeah.
You know what, dude?
I. I think about this, and Ilook back to, you know, the best
advice my dad ever gave me.
And when I was a young guy,one of my close friends passed away,
and I went through, you know,a pretty rough time.
I didn't want to get out of bed.
I didn't want to do anything.
I was.
I was just having a hard time.
And I remember my dad cameinto my room, and he looks at me

(51:11):
and he says, you know, you gotto just get up and live life normally.
Do the things you would have done.
He's like, I get it.
Right now.
You're gonna have to forceyourself through it right now.
It's gonna be hard for youjust to put on a pair of socks.
But every day that you get upand you put on a pair of socks gets
a little easier and a littleeasier and a little easier.

(51:32):
And I'll be honest, that wasthe best piece of advice my dad ever
gave me.
Because I have.
I have dealt with so muchchallenge in my life, so many things
that I didn't want to get outof bed for.
But what I recognized wasevery day I do get out of bed and
I do that thing, even if thefirst few times, it feels really
like.
Like I have to force myself todo it, every day gets a little easier.

(51:53):
And so just giving it time,giving yourself that time to.
To get back to normal, itreally does work.
And it works with everything.
Like, not just your own.
Your own mood.
Yeah.
Giving the time and just accepting.
I mean, that's an intense scenario.
We're Talking about there.
Yeah.
In terms of our day to daybusiness, it's.
It's okay that there's fearthere, right?
Like it's okay.

(52:15):
It's normal anytime, you knowwe're doing something that there's
a possible risk and thepossible risk is they could reject
us.
In this example.
Yeah, yeah.
There's some fear and that's okay.
Dial anyways, right?
That you can feel the fear anddo it anyways.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
No, you can.
You absolutely can, man.
No, Ben, this has beenabsolutely amazing.

(52:36):
You know, one of the things Iwant to chat about is obviously we're
talking mindset andperformance, but you are a, you're
a high level mindset andperformance coach, man.
Talk to us a little bit about.
About who what?
Like who are your top clients?
Who are your ideal clients?
Who do you work with?
So for me, I almostpredominantly work with entrepreneurs.
I have a couple executiveclients, but almost all entrepreneurs.

(52:57):
And you know, usually we'retalking kind of businesses where,
you know, they're probablydoing somewhere around.
It varies but you know,they're probably.
Their business is probablylike a million in sales upwards.
Probably probably a million tofive somewhere around there.
Right.
Like honestly the kind ofstuff we're talking about works for
anybody.
So it doesn't matter.

(53:17):
Sure.
What I find though is that alot of the people that come to me
today and I'm working with,they're already successful and they're
struggling with enjoying that success.
Kind of what we talked aboutearlier, right.
They're reaching a point intheir life.
I had a call guy with theother day, great business guy and
you know, he's successful,he's done really well and he ends
up.

(53:37):
I've never met him before, hewas referred to me, but he ends up,
I said, so what's going on foryou, man?
Like, what are you reallywanting right now?
He ends up breaking down in tears.
Now this doesn't happen allthe time, but he breaks down tears
like, I'm so sorry.
And I was like, it's okay,bro, no worries.
And.
But he just shared with mesome of the things going on.
So to answer your question,for me, like high performance coaching
is not just about how do we goand make more money and become more

(54:01):
productive.
We're going to do that.
But I want to help people getback that sense of aliveness.
I like helping people get backto where there's that joy for living,
that zest, that passion forlife and it's possible and we can
live there and it doesn't needto be 10 years from now or 20 years
from now, and you don't needthe big goal that you've got set

(54:22):
in order to live it.
It.
Yeah.
So, yeah, that was probably abroad answer.
But that's my thing, like,that's my jam is I like working with
people that are.
We've done well, they're doingwell, and they're continuing to.
And we're going to continue tohelp them do that, do it even better.
But I want to bring back thatzest, get that aliveness, get the
joy.
Well, I, I already know thatabout you, but I think there's a

(54:42):
lot of people who don't know,you know, what it is you do and,
and like, why it's important.
And I think it's like, Ithink, I think, you know, if we're
talking to young entrepreneursright now, like ones that are just
getting into it, just startingtheir own company in their mind,
I can almost guarantee youthey think, when I achieve a million
dollars a year, I'm going tobe happy.
That's the moment it'll all be fine.
Yeah.
But the funny thing is, andthe thing that you see over and over

(55:05):
and over again is people makea million, 5 million, 400 million.
It doesn't make them happy.
Yeah, well, it never can.
It's like, I remember when Istarted, mine was 100,000 a year.
No, my family never made ahundred thousand a year.
And so that wasn't likebusiness sales, but I wanted my income
to be a hundred thousand dollars.
Yeah.
And then I got there and it isexciting for like a day.

(55:27):
Yeah, yeah.
But the reason why, though is.
And sometimes we just have toexperience it.
Right.
Like, you know, so there's acoach that I followed for a while
and his whole thing, he'slike, you know, and his was a million
dollars.
That's what he talked about.
It's like, I know you want themillion dollar, your income, I know
you want it.
He's like, I'm just tellingyou right now, it's not going to
give you what you think it'sgoing to give you, but go and get

(55:49):
the million so you can figureit out for yourself.
You got to learn it the right way.
Right.
So sometimes we got to do that.
Right.
It's just, go figure it out experientially.
But, but the challenge is, isthat that idea of happiness.
Happiness is an inside job.
Right.
It's figuring out.
And that's, that's why I'm sopassionate about this kind of work,
is that I want to help peoplelive that life today while we're

(56:09):
building greater wealth, whilewe're building greater businesses.
Because it is an illusion thatwe fall prey to and get trapped in,
thinking that once I have X,whether it's the million dollars,
whether it's the revenue,whether it's the dream home, whether
it's the vacation, you know,it's retiring your parents, it's
paying that debt off, it's whatever.

(56:31):
Putting the kids throughcollege, the illusion is, is that
there.
There is no externalachievement that's going to give
you lasting happiness.
Yeah.
And, you know, like, let's.
Let's keep that analogy of theyoung entrepreneur that we're talking
to right now, Ben.
You know, you've been through it.
You.
You busted your ass and youran into a wall, and, you know, you.
You crashed and burned and hadto pull yourself out of it, and you

(56:52):
learned this the hard way,just like the rest of us.
You know, at a certain level,you learned this the hard way.
What's the best piece ofadvice that you can give to a young
entrepreneur?
Maybe it's their first year inbusiness and they are striving for
that million dollars becauseright now, that's.
That still feels fresh and hot.
Yeah.
And it's motivating them.
It's a great goal, too.

(57:12):
Right.
Like, I'm not against that.
I think it's an awesome goal.
Yeah.
And an awesome thing.
You know, getting the millionis an awesome thing.
Right.
Do it.
Right?
Do it.
What's the best piece of advice?
I think at that stage, it'shard to nail it down to one, but

(57:35):
at that stage, you're probably still.
I guess just to put itbluntly, you're probably still not
that good at what you do yetat that stage.
So someone entering business,they've been in business for a year,
whatever it might be, and thismay seem counter to everything we
talked about up to this point,but it's not.
Is, I would say, become reallyfreaking good at what you do.

(58:00):
Just become a master of yourcraft, whatever that is.
Right.
Because that's ultimatelylike, you can write your ticket in
a lot of ways when we getgreat at what we do, as you know.
Right.
When we get great at what we do.
Opportunities everywhere.
Yeah.
So.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So, you know, you might be surprised.
You might think, hey, man, gotake off this amount of time or go
do this.
No, honestly, at that stage,I'd say I get really freaking great

(58:21):
at it.
It's true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I actually like that becauseyou're Right.
Once you are great at what youdo, there's always work for you somewhere.
Yeah, always.
I love it.
Yeah, I love it.
You know, Ben, obviously, youknow, you mentioned that your podcast
is not live at the moment, butyou have a top 1% podcast.

(58:42):
I. I imagine it's not dead forever.
I have.
I know you.
I think you'll.
I think there's something newcoming from Ben Spangle.
But we just.
Can we just introduce thePursuit to the listeners?
Because it's still very much available.
Yeah, it's a great show.
I think there's.
I wonder.
111 episodes.
It's a great show for sure.
And it's not dead by any means.
I'm just not activelyreleasing episodes in it.
But the Pursuit was.

(59:02):
Is all about that.
It's the pursuit of our best life.
Right.
How do we go?
And I would consider it, like,to me, I like the idea of holistic
success.
How do we build a great business?
How do we build a great bodyand health and vitality, have a great
marriage, be great parents?
So the Pursuit is sometimesit's me teaching, but often it's
guests.
And honestly, a lot ofdifferent areas.

(59:22):
Right.
So we might have, you know,there's people that.
There's lots of differenthealth episodes.
I love biohacking.
That's one of my side passions.
I don't talk too much about,but that's something I love.
Like, how do we get the bestout of our body?
What are these little thingswe can do?
And different hacks.
And so there's stuff likethat, obviously.
There's a lot of mindset stuffin there.
There was a period of my lifewhere I was heavy into, like, the
manifestation space.

(59:43):
Yeah.
And so that.
That show has, you know,certainly elements of that, too,
and.
Yeah.
And then some business stuff.
Not as much business on thatone, but yeah.
Awesome, awesome.
And that's still available,obviously, anywhere that people find
podcasts.
Yeah.
The Pursuit.
Yeah.
Ben Spangle.
Yeah, you got it.
Perfect.
Perfect.
And, you know, like, I followyou on LinkedIn, so I always know
typically, what's going onwith what's going on in your life.

(01:00:04):
But, you know, you put a lotof great information out there.
You're always givingmotivational videos.
I have you on Facebook, too.
What's the best way for peopleto follow kind of what's new from
Ben Spangle?
Because you're always doingsomething new.
You always have like a speechor a seminar or something coming
up.
You always have, you know,coaching available.
You got all sorts of services.
Is what's the best way forpeople to kind of keep up with you
and to start to engage in theBen Spangle universe.

(01:00:27):
Yeah, sure.
So I. I would say a few things.
So one is like, if they wantto connect.
I mean, just if.
If you want to connect, anemail's great.
So Ben B, E, N at Ben Spangle.
And Spangle does not have anE, S, P, A, N, G, L. Right.
It'll be right.
It'll be right in the show notes.
Be able to find it easy.
Good.
So if you want to connect likethat, send me an email.
Ben spangle.com Instagram's great.

(01:00:48):
Great Ben Spangle.
Facebook's great.
Ben Spangle.
I know LinkedIn.
That's your.
A lot of your platform.
Truth is, I have one.
I don't use it that often, sothat's not a great place.
I may not see you for a whileif they message me there.
But Instagram, Facebook, orjust send me a direct email and be
happy to chat.
Perfect.
Dude.
No, it's been.
It's been an honor.
I always appreciate these conversations.
I appreciate you immensely asa person.

(01:01:09):
You know, you've been in, youknow, to the listeners.
Like, I've done a coachingsession with Ben.
Ben was kind of enough to doone for me.
And honestly, dude, you're.
You're.
You're incredible.
Thank you.
I'm just gonna say it.
You're incredible.
Thanks.
What you're talking about is real.
And I appreciate both you as aperson and as a friend.
Thank you, brother.
It's great to be back here.
It's great spending time withyou and definitely an honor.

(01:01:30):
I have to tell you, one of thethings you're great at is you're
great at making the guestsfeel special.
Right?
And you do a good.
And I know it's just your personality.
It's who you are.
It's not fake.
It's.
It's very genuine.
It's who you are.
You.
From a podcast perspective, Istepped away from mine, as you know.
But this is for all the listeners.
Like, what Kelly's doing isamazing, and what he's done with
the show is amazing, and he.

(01:01:50):
At times, I think youdownplayed a little bit.
Like, what you have done isfreaking incredible, how fast you
guys have grown.
It's truly amazing.
I know it's a passion project,but you'll be one of the guys that's
got, like, where that show is, man.
The Kelly Kennedy Show.
I can't believe it.
Maybe one day I could get tothe Kelly K Show.
So I say this with whole sincerity.
There probably is going tocome a time that I do a new podcast

(01:02:13):
in my life.
I don't feel called to do thatright now, but you are my inspiration
for how I'm going to do it thenext time around.
So I love what you've done.
Yeah, you're amazing.
You make me feel special.
Oh, goodness.
No.
Thank you.
Thank you for all you do.
And I look forward very muchto our next conversation.
Me too, brother.
See you soon.
Until next time, this has beenepisode 256 of the Business Development

(01:02:37):
Podcast.
We will catch you on the flip side.
This has been the BusinessDevelopment Podcast with Kelly Kennedy.
Kelly has 15 years in salesand business development experience
within the Alberta oil and gasindustry and founded his own business
development firm in 2020.
His passion and hisspecialization is in customer relationship

(01:03:01):
generation and business development.
The show is brought to you byCapital Business Development, your
business development specialists.
For more, we invite you to thewebsite at www.capitalbd.ca.
see you next time on theBusiness Development Podcast.