November 17, 2025 • 53 mins
This week, I brought the multi-talented French-Canadian comedian and personality Tranna Wintour to the podcast. We dived into the current political noise in her own backyard (Canada), but also what she has observed in the States. A major focus of the conversation was Madonna’s legacy. We dissected how difficult the last 20 years of her career and persona have been for some to stand by, and how this is another example of figuring out how to deal with our problematic favs. Finally, we ask a big question: Have we reached the end of celebrity stan culture in the wake of the current political and social climate we’re in?
Bio:
Tranna Wintour is a highly-acclaimed bilingual comedian, singer, writer, hostess, and producer.
Legendary comedienne Sandra Bernhard described her as “a candle in the window on a cold, dark winter’s night.” A Just For Laughs New Face Canada (2019), Tranna was named one of the queens of Canadian comedy by Fashion magazine.
Performing in both English and French, she appeared in a Juste Pour Rire gala in 2021 before starring in Québec’s hit series, Big Brother Célébrités. Her run to the top 4 was hailed as the show’s breakthrough moment and “the best moment on Québec TV in years” by the Journal Métro.
Tranna co-hosted the successful CBC Podcast Chosen Family for three seasons, which was named one of Apple’s Best Podcasts for two consecutive years. Her debut album, Safe From Your Affection, is available on all streaming platforms, and she is currently developing an original comedy series with a major Canadian broadcaster.
Instagram: TrannaWintour
Website: https://www.trannawintour.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Hi everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Bundy Chronicles
podcast, so I am joined by TranaWintour.
Trana Wintour is a highly acclaimed bilingual comedian,
singer, writer, Hostess and producer.
Legendary comedian Sandra Bernhardt described her as a
candle in the window on a cold dark's winter night.
I just for laughs new face Canada in 2019, Tran out was
(00:27):
named one of the Queens of Canadian comedy by fashion
magazine and you have been featured in the Quebec head
series Big Brother celebrities and you have Co hosted the CBC
podcast chosen family for three seasons, which was what named
one of Apple's Apple's best podcast for two consecutive
(00:47):
years. Your debut album, Say From Your
Affection, is available on all streaming platforms and you are
currently developing an originalcomedy series with a major
Canadian broadcaster. So I first learned of you
through your guest appearances on the MOVC Madonna podcast.
Shout out to them. Yeah, shout out.
Yes, and I love your hot takes on Madonna's legacy and I've
(01:11):
since followed you on Instagram as a long time fan of Madonna
myself. More specifically the 1st 20
years. Sorry, I know it sounds like a
shade there. It's not shady, it's accurate.
Well, it is accurate. It was refreshing to hear you
talk both brilliantly about Madonna's legacy while pointing
(01:32):
out on her serious flaws. And I'm excited to get into your
thoughts about her and and also on pop music culture.
But first, like how have you been navigating 2025 so far?
Oh my God. Start with an easy question.
Yeah, it is very loaded. I mean, obviously this year just
(01:53):
on a very macro, global scale has been horrific, a really hard
year. I think we're all feeling it, I
think. I think also there's this
unspoken trauma that we all experienced during the pandemic
that I feel like we've just kindof swept under the rug and
haven't addressed. And I think that that plays into
(02:14):
a lot of things that are happening and a lot of what
we're feeling right now. So I won't lie, it's been a
really difficult year, as I think it's been for anyone with
a conscience and but you know, in a weird way, on a personal
level, like creatively, professionally, like knock on
wood, I've actually had a decentyear.
(02:36):
But, you know, I think that as much as I can be, I try to be a
really present person. Like I think it's important to
be aware of what's going on in the world of what's going on in
your local communities. Sometimes I can be a little
overwhelmed and like swallowed up by it.
But I think it's our responsibility to to be awake
(02:59):
and to be active in trying to combat some of the awful things
going on. Yeah.
And I know touching up on that, you're based in Montreal,
Canada. What does that look like for
you, watching what has happened in the US and across the globe
and in your own backyard? Well, you know, Canada
geographically is extremely close to the US Obviously, we
(03:21):
share a major border that, I mean, basically spans the length
of the country. So we're very influenced by what
goes on in the US, like we always have been.
What goes on in your country hasa direct effect on what goes on
in our country here. So you know, in Canada too,
there is this rise of conservatism and it's alarming.
(03:46):
I think that like Montreal for example, for a long time has
really been a bohemian punk citythat's been a place for artists
to come and thrive. Because for a very long time,
we're talking up until like 6 years ago, Montreal was an
extremely affordable city, but one of the only major North
(04:06):
American cities that was truly affordable.
And just in these last 6-7 years, it has changed so
drastically. You know, I've really witnessed
my city that I love so much losing so much of the things
that make it great. So that's, you know, that's
something that's hard to watch. We also like, I mean, we're
coming off the night after the amazing mayoral election in New
(04:30):
York, which is so exciting and inspiring.
But in Montreal, we also had a mayoral election a few days ago
and we elected someone horrible who is in bed with Airbnb and
who is like just so on the wrongside of things and had so many
like racist candidates in her party.
Like it's just, it's not great here either.
(04:52):
It's not quite to the level of the US, thank God.
But we definitely have our issues here too.
Yeah. And how do you feel about where
the queer and trans community isin the in Montreal more
specifically? Well, I think on that front,
Montreal has always been quite aprogressive city.
You know, I've always felt quitesafe as an out trans person in
(05:14):
the city. You know, I think that our city
right now is experiencing like amajor housing crisis.
And with that obviously comes a really major and heartbreaking
homeless situation. And I know that for some people
there is this feeling that Montreal like has become more
dangerous or unsafe, but it's truly one of the safest cities
(05:36):
in the world. And I still feel that way.
I think that there is a general rise in transphobia and
homophobia happening not just inCanada or the US, but more
broadly. I think there's so much false
information, and I think that trans and queer people are
really being used as a scapegoatfor so many political programs.
That is truly horrifying. So there definitely is some of
(05:59):
that, you know, like Montreal has definitely lost some of its
progressive character. But I would say that I still
feel quite safe here. Yeah.
And how do you step into your thought authenticity as a trans
woman when you have a public platform?
What responsibility does it carry for you?
That's a great question. I mean, I, you know, I feel I
(06:21):
can't represent like an entire community.
Obviously I don't think any minority community can ever be
fully represented by just one ortwo people.
I'm thankful for my visibility as a very, very minor public
figure in Canada. But I to me, I really do think
(06:43):
that the role of artists is to help come to some sort of
understanding of the human condition and the state of the
world. You know?
So for me, it's like I do feel apersonal responsibility to use
the little platform that I have to talk about the things that
that matter to me, which is basically just human rights.
(07:05):
Like, it's just so wild to me that things as truly simple as
human rights, human decency, affordable housing, affordable
food, access to free health care, how these things have
become so polarizing when it's like everyone deserves these
basic things. Like I was watching a video
(07:25):
earlier today of like the crazy,you know, right wing US
political commentators freaking out over Zoran's victory.
And they're talking about him like he's a demon when literally
all he wants is for New Yorkers to have affordable housing and
free transit. And they treat him like he is a
(07:46):
demon. It's truly insane.
It, it really is because it's like it's a weird timeline to
be. And I've told this to a lot of
my friends on a daily basis because like the snap benefits
in the US, like which actually feeds many folks there are low
income are getting like cut likethis month as we speak.
And, and a lot of the mega Republicans are like trying to
(08:09):
like say, Oh, it's a Democrats fault.
And I'm like the the, the goal post, the movement of the goal
post is just like really amazes me.
Like they can't take responsibility.
That's the. For anything and just the
complete manipulation and distortion of the truth.
And I, I love that Zoran broughtthat up in his victory speech.
(08:29):
You know, like Cuomo and all those billionaire goons spent so
much money on advertising and campaigns to manipulate and
twist the truth into lies and itdidn't work.
Thank God, you know? But there is that attempt on
their part to always twist things again, even to take this
(08:50):
man who literally again, just wants people to be housed and
have free transit and access to childcare.
And they are vilifying him and acting like he represents the
end of the world when they are the end of the world.
They are the ones that are literally every day actively
(09:10):
trying to make our lives so muchworse by taking away those
benefits that people need by, you know, all the horrific I
stuff that you and I spoke aboutoff camera.
Like it's just this distortion of reality and their and the
fact that so many people fall for it when it's not even
logical, like it doesn't even make sense.
(09:31):
And yet so many people fall for it.
It's just, yeah, we're living ina truly very bizarre timeline,
very dystopian. But again, moments like last
night remind us that, like, if we can actually put aside the
bullshit culture wars and just unite, because ultimately this
(09:51):
is a class war. So if the 99% of us who are not
billionaires can unite, we can really get things done.
But they've done a very good jobof making us so divided, you
know, which again, like Zoran proved that we can get past the
division and actually work together and achieve something
(10:11):
that is for the collective good.And I really hope that last
night is is a sign that we are moving in that direction because
we cannot keep going the way we're going.
Yeah, because I cannot tell you how many times I would have
angry phone calls with like other friends of mine.
I'm like, you know, why am I still here?
(10:32):
I know, I just. Timeline.
I, I know, and I've been having more and more like not radical
conversation with, with my friends, but I would say
practical in the sense that, yes, a lot of my conversations
with my friends is sort of aboutletting the rage out and venting
and, you know, commiserating with each other.
(10:54):
But I think now I'm seeing my conversations with my friends
moving towards more things like what can we actually do to
change things? You know, so like, for example,
here in Canada, we don't have states, we have provinces and
each province has a leader kind of like a governor basically.
So we have one of those elections coming up next year.
(11:14):
And it's like last night made merealize that like, we have to
start mobilizing now, you know? And I do feel actually really
energized now to really participate in a concrete way
because I don't think it's enough to just go on social
media and share thoughts and tell people to go vote.
Like that's not enough. And I don't think anyone's minds
(11:37):
really get changed online. But what was so impressive about
Zoran's campaign is that like, it was so grassroots and it was
about canvassing and going door to door and having face to face
conversations with people. And I think that that is the way
forward. Yeah.
And I think you, to your point, like I think it's also goes
beyond Zoran. I also believe that this is
(12:00):
where the direction of so many people want to head, especially
for the Democratic Party, which I can go on with like a new
episode. Yeah, no, it's exactly.
And it's so. It's so wild that the
established Democrats hate him so much, which is proof that
this party, as it is right now, is not for the people.
But I agree with you. This is so much bigger than
(12:21):
Zoran. The fact that his campaign and
his message is literally resonating around the world is
really encouraging. And I think part of the reason
why it's so powerful is because we now have a concrete example
that we can do this. Because I think before him, it
felt so hopeless. It felt so much like, what can
(12:43):
we actually do? We can't do anything.
But that's not true. And to to start pivoting, what
was the inspiration behind the name China Wintour?
Well, Anna Wintour, of course, editor in chief of Vogue
magazine, for anyone who doesn'tknow.
And it's kind of funny because Ifeel like it's a name that I
(13:04):
didn't even get to choose. So Long story short, like, I
guess like we're talking a good 14, almost 15 years ago at this
point, when I was really starting to come to an
understanding of like my trans identity.
It was at the same time that I was also really stepping into my
identity as a performer and as an artist.
(13:25):
And those two things were sort of happening at the same time.
And one Halloween, I dressed up as Anna Wintour.
And that year, my friend dressedup as what we were calling a
trans version of Justin Bieber. And this is when he had just
come out. So like, my friend from like,
the waist up was dressed like Justin Bieber in the baby music
(13:45):
video, but from waist down, she was wearing like, fishnets and
heels. And that whole night we all just
kept referring to her as trans Bieber.
And then I was just kind of like, well, if you're trans
Bieber, then I'm Trana Wintour. And the name just stuck.
And, you know, to be honest, in hindsight, I don't know if
that's the name that I would have or should have chosen for
(14:07):
myself because it really sounds like a drag name.
And I think that sometimes that confuses people into thinking
that I'm a drag queen when I'm trans.
And like, sometimes that can be frustrating.
But at the same time, like the name always gets me a lot of
attention. So yeah, at the same time, I
can't complain too much. Absolutely.
And also, I wonder about your thoughts on Anna Wintour's
(14:30):
legacy. I mean, I noticed that's been a
controversial figure. Yeah, yeah.
That's a great question. You know, I think like, as
someone who's so deeply pop culture obsessed, my
relationship to pop culture has really changed a lot over the
years, as I believe it should for most people.
When you're a kid or a teen or even a young adult, I think
(14:52):
there is a sort of like idolatry, Like there's an
idolizing of your favorites and they can do no wrong.
But hopefully as you grow up, you realize that no one's
perfect and everyone is flawed. And Anna Winter definitely is.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about her.
There's a part of me that reallyadmires what a powerful woman
(15:14):
she is and what she's built for herself.
There's a part of me that's really impressed by that.
I love her personality. I love that she scares people.
I love all of those vibes so much.
But I also hate that she's not very progressive, you know, like
she does. I think she's a perfect example
(15:37):
of like, an establishment Democrat, you know?
Like, I didn't see her fundraising for Zoran.
You know, I think that I would love to see her become more
progressive, but that's just notwho she is.
You know, like, and I don't I don't relate to that part of her
that is definitely like conservative as much as she
(15:57):
likes to think that she's a liberal, like so many people of
her age demographic, you know, that like to think that they are
liberal thinking people, but in reality actually have quite
conservative values and, you know, are really kind of just in
things for themselves and their fellow millionaires and
billionaires. I do not think she's someone who
has given back a whole lot. And with Madonna, it's already
(16:22):
20 years since the Confessions on the Dance Floor album, if you
can believe that. I mean, I that was back when I
was in college. And So what are your thoughts
now about what was going throughyour mind when it came out and
how do you feel about it now after all these years?
Well, I do still vividly remember that period of time.
I remember when the first littleclips of Hung Up started to make
(16:45):
their way online. And I, I remember vividly
listening to the full song for the first time and just being
blown away. And I remember thinking to
myself, I cannot wait to hear this.
Like in a club on like a massivesound system.
It was such an exciting time to be a Madonna fan.
I also associate that time a lotwith the tour as well.
(17:06):
She came to Montreal, she did two nights here and they were
the only Canadian stop. So like the show literally sold
out in like 2 both nights sold out in like 2 minutes and
miraculously like I was able to get tickets and it was just like
that concert is like I think I actually prefer the concert over
(17:26):
the album like. I do.
Maybe this is like an unpopular opinion.
I don't think it's the best album.
I think the singles are amazing.I think like half of the album
is brilliant and the other half is just good, you know?
But the tour is a full on masterpiece, even just as a
(17:48):
concert film, like the way it was filmed and edited, like as
just as a piece of film is a masterpiece.
So, you know, and I do think that that was that was the last
imperial age of her career. You know, like, I do think that
that was, yeah, the crowning glory.
(18:09):
And I wish that it could have continued.
And I think that there was a wayfor it to continue.
But I think she lost a lot of her confidence after her divorce
with Guy Ritchie. I really do identify that as
being something that really changed the direction of her
life so dramatically. I think she became really
insecure. I think that in that insecurity,
(18:32):
you know, there was this attemptto follow trends instead of set
trends. And I think she got really lost
in the following of those trends.
There's an amazing French artistnamed Milan Farmer who's massive
in France and other like French speaking places in the world.
And she's often compared to Madonna, like every, you know,
(18:53):
female pop star with longevity. But she started in the 80s
around the same time as Madonna and, like, you know, explored a
lot of similar themes in her work.
But she's someone who really managed to maintain her artistic
vision and integrity. And even just like 2 years ago,
she released like one of the best albums of her career.
Like to me, I don't understand how Madonna has not released a
(19:18):
truly great album in like 20 years.
That's crazy to me. It really.
Especially because from 1983, like from the debut to
Confessions, every single one ofthose albums is amazing.
Yeah, it's a landmark each. And it's like there were times
(19:39):
when Madonna album or single comes out and it becomes like a
huge a conversation on the wateron the on the water cooler.
Yes. And it's like, it's like I used
to remember being so excited when a Madonna album comes out.
I would go home from school, like or from college and I'll
just grab an album and play it And just it feels like such a
(20:03):
revelation each time. Yes.
And yes, you're right. I do believe that the confession
story is actually better than the album itself because I saw
twice in Chicago and. And I was just so blown away.
Like everything about it was like I remember the the gym bars
were like yes, high and it came down, you know, for jump and you
(20:24):
know, it was like magnificent. Yeah, it really was.
Especially erotica. You throw me that?
Was, Oh my God, incredible. Yeah, incredible.
Ben has had me in a chokehold for the last 20 years.
Already, Yeah, as well. Yeah, I would say especially the
first act with all the horses and the equestrian theme, like
also just the intro, you know, like the video and then the
(20:48):
disco ball descending and the way it opens up and everyone
loses their mind. Like it's so magical.
She was really at the height of her powers.
Yeah, she should have at least swapped out Lisa Bonita for
everybody because she was supposed to do everybody, but
she's. No, I really love that version
of Lisa Bonita, I have to say. And what I also, what I love
about it is that, like, and you can see this especially like in
(21:11):
the concert film, like, she looks so happy.
Oh, yeah. Like when she's dancing around
to Lisa Bonita, like she has this giant smile on her face
that we've not really seen a lotin these 40 years, You know?
Like she's not the happiest person in the world, no.
Especially towards her fans, like in concerts.
Oh, I know. It's so funny.
I always joke with my friends that like, you know, when you
(21:33):
compare her to other pop stars like Kylie or Lady Gaga, who are
literally like, on their knees thanking their fans, you have
Madonna almost like spitting on her fans and being like, you
guys suck. It's just funny.
And like, part of the reason that we love her is the sort of
brat side of her, you know? Exactly.
And you know, what's kind of interesting is after the guy
(21:55):
Richie marriage, I think her career really did start to
unravel, obviously around that time because when she started
working with Timberlake, Boo. And.
Timbaland and Pharrell. But then when Lady Gaga came out
around that time, something toldme that she felt very threatened
by it. I know a lot of Madonna fans are
(22:16):
going to, like, come after me for saying this, but like, but
Lady Gaga was different than Britney Spears.
Yes. And because Britney Spears, it
felt like Madonna can really have her at the palm of her
hands. Exactly.
And I felt. Like, she could like, OK, at
least I know that Britney's not a threat to me because Britney
will worship me. But Lady Gaga, it's like, yeah,
(22:37):
I respect you, but you're not the only one.
Because I always felt that, and I would tell this to people,
Lady Gaga is more out to John. I don't know, I.
Completely agree. Wardrobe, you know, and, and her
being very like, very being verysophisticated and, and not the
controversial acts that Madonna would put on.
(23:00):
So it felt like Madonna did not know what to do with Lady Gaga.
So I felt like she was trying sohard to.
I agree with you, but I think Madonna was already in a fragile
place when Lady Gaga came onto the scene because obviously we
know, especially 20 years ago, that, you know, the pop music
(23:21):
world is extremely ageist. It's so rare that any woman over
40 has had a number one hit. I think you can literally count
and still to this day on one hand, the number of women over
40 who had a number one hit. And so I think Madonna was
feeling all of those things. I think she was feeling the
insecurity that came with the devastation of that divorce.
(23:43):
And then you have this juggernaut of an artist, Lady
Gaga, that comes out and dominates the pop culture scene
in a way that not even Britney had, you know, in a way that no
one had before or, I mean, or since Madonna, you know, like
Lady Gaga was the only one who was able to sort of create the
(24:05):
level of spectacle and frenzy that Madonna and Michael Jackson
and Janet did in their days, youknow?
So yes, I agree with you. I think she was the she was
shaken by that. And I think that she didn't know
how to find or maintain her place in the pop world.
(24:26):
Ironically, I think the answer was actually very simple.
I think Madonna just needed to stay true to herself as an
artist instead of trying to makemusic that sounded like the
things that were on the radio, because she never did that.
Right. And you know.
She always followed her own artistic curiosity and she would
always seek out underground producers and she was always so
(24:50):
ahead of the curve because she was doing the things that she
was responding to authentically.Yeah.
And also, I think it's interesting to point out that
and many of our tours, recent tours accept celebration.
She would always avoid doing a lot of major hits.
Maybe she'll give you a sprinkle.
Yes. And I always felt that it was
(25:10):
also ruining her own legacy withher own longtime fans because
they're like, look, I grew up tothis music.
I don't want to hear the new stuff.
I'm not nothing with it, you know?
Yeah, So and that was always, that was frustrating.
I think the most frustrating tour for me had to be the Madame
X tour for a number of reasons. Because, yes, I like the fact
that I was in a theatre. I like the fact that I almost
(25:32):
got a chance of fist bump on Madonna, which came by me, but I
got my hand knocked out by a security guard.
I held her hand on the MDNA tour.
Gosh, I'm so jealous. But like, but that is so wild.
But like, but yeah, at that tour, I was, it was like she
didn't get on stage until nearlymidnight.
And yeah, I know I was. She has.
Tired. Yeah.
(25:52):
And I was so tired throughout the show because I was like, the
songs were not matching the energy.
It's like, look, just put it in the morning time.
Just be brave and put it at 9:00AM because at least I'd go.
But this is but that that was sofrustrating for me as a fan
because I was like, I think artistically it looked great,
but to be at like 1:00 AM hearing her do Portuguese covers
(26:15):
is not ideal for. Me, I I do agree with you.
Like I, I want. I didn't.
That's the only tour since the first tour that I ever saw was
reinvention. That was my first time seeing
Madonna when I was like just finishing high school and it was
such a dream come true. And since Reinvention, I've seen
(26:36):
every show at least twice. But Madam X is the only one I I
didn't see live because I, I wasnot crazy about the album and
she didn't come to Canada. And I just couldn't justify
spending all that money to hear an album that I didn't even
really like. And I watched the concert film
(26:56):
and I liked it, but I didn't love it, you know?
And I thought some of it was really actually quite gringe,
like there's a lot of white stuff going on in that show that
I found really almost comical, honestly.
Right. But there's a little.
What was that one song? Batuka.
Yeah. But and also killers who are
partying, Yes. Killers who are partying that
song. Which is my most hated Madonna
(27:18):
song of all? Time it's.
Awful. It's ridiculous.
And also the reason that it's soridiculous is that she doesn't
actually do that much for the world.
She loves to project this image of herself as a freedom fighter
and a rebel heart and has this song Killers who are partying,
where she's literally saying that she will defend all these
(27:40):
marginalized communities, and she never does.
So that's what also adds to the ridiculousness if she was
actually doing something. I mean, I know she has the
Raising Malawi Foundation, and that's great.
Although I've heard different things, you know, but there's so
many things that she doesn't even talk about publicly.
(28:01):
You know, she doesn't even use her power and her voice to talk
about things that are happening now.
So like she's a, she's always been a bit of a hypocrite, I
think. Yeah, because I feel like the
worst thing that's happened to her legacy is social media.
It is the worst thing. And Milan Farmer, the French
artist that I was telling you about, she doesn't even have a
(28:22):
website. Wow like she never got on social
media and in between albums she literally disappears.
But but it does not affect her popularity because every time
she comes out with a new album the fans go crazy.
She's still having massive hit albums.
(28:43):
She literally just did a stadiumtour like 2 years ago, sold out,
you know, and it's like, that's what I wanted for Madonna.
I wanted Madonna to just, you know, continue with her artistic
vision and just remain true to that.
But I think, I think that for those first 25 years that we
(29:03):
talk about so lovingly, I think that she did manage to navigate
the artistry and the fame and the celebrity side of things.
But it's like after 2008, it just became all about the
celebrity side of things and thefame and maintaining the fame
and the art suffered, whereas before the art never suffered,
(29:24):
you know, because of her unrelenting desire to be
constantly in the spotlight. Yeah.
And also, like, I almost did notgo to celebration tour last
year. I think it was because Amy
Schumer came out as one of the judges.
I know which is awful. And that was horrible.
And for those that don't know, she's a Zionist, she's a very
(29:47):
well known Zionist and Madonna has had a lot of very both side
isms. Yes, big.
Time and I think that's where I struggle as a fan and this is
kind of where I'm starting to struggle right now with
celebrity music celebrity pop culture more specifically like
like I have been long time fans of like you know Janet Mariah
(30:12):
you know Coldplay system of a down all these different artists
and yeah all of them have done problematic things Janet Jackson
like you know did not think Kamala Harris I know that was so
heartbreaking that's so. Heartbreaking.
Problematic in her own way for. Sure, that was heartbreaking.
I do have a hard time with it too.
I think, you know, I do think that a lot of Madonna's
(30:36):
Zionistic tendencies are due to the people she surrounds herself
with. I don't think that that comes
from her because she idolizes and worships James Baldwin and
it's like, bitch, if you love James Baldwin this much, why
don't you actually listen to thethings he said, you know?
And the both siding thing that, like you pointed out, she is so
(30:57):
much that she is definitely A2 sider kind of person is very
disappointing. But there's a part of me that's
grateful that it's at least not full on Zionism.
Like she's not out there like Debra Messing saying like kill
all of them. You know, like there are degrees
of Zionism. I don't think Madonna is the
worst, but I agree that any degree of it is horrible and
(31:20):
hard to reconcile as a fan. Like I have a friend of mine who
we actually met because of Madonna and we used to go to all
the concerts together. And for my friend, that was a
really hard line. She did not go to the
celebration tour. She even actually she had bought
tickets and then she sold them, she got rid of them and she will
(31:40):
not listen to Madonna anymore. And honestly, I don't blame her.
I I really do understand people making that choice.
Yeah, and it's also interesting because like this year I've been
to a couple of concerts, spent alot of good money.
I spent it on Beyoncé's Cowboy Carter tour, Coldplay.
One of them is Coldplay's tour, Stadium tour and then System of
(32:04):
a Down Oasis and, you know, Grace Jones.
Yeah. Oh, Grace Jones.
You saw Grace. Jones yes, I did.
I actually got to touch her hand.
She. OK, that's the I'd rather touch
Grace Jones's hands on Madonna'shand.
I, I agree. I agree.
I mean Grace Jones, I was like hysterical, but like, but like
the Beyoncé, Coldplay, even System of a down.
I mean, they have done some veryproblematic things this year and
(32:26):
I'm like Jesus Christ, like I. Just, well, even bands like,
even bands like Radiohead, even.Yes, I used to.
Listen to Bono all the time. Like Bono who?
I mean, I was never a big U2 fan, so I'm it's not like it
affects me, but but Bono used tobe regarded as this like leader
in terms of like human rights and political activism.
(32:47):
And he's a fucking Zionist. Like it's crazy.
But he's also managed by Guy Osiri, Yes.
And he is evil, I truly believe.And I think that he, you know,
manipulates a lot of people, including the acts that he
manages, manipulates them into getting on board with this
horrific agenda, you know? But I do think that there's
(33:10):
still a part of Madonna that canactually see what's happening
for what it is, you know? But she is not doing nearly
enough. But yeah, I, I think that it,
you know, you're, you're saying that all of these artists that
you love have done problematic things over the last couple of
years. I think we all relate to that.
(33:31):
Sometimes also silence can be very disappointing.
You know, like when I look at someone who I love, like Cher
and Cher has always been so outspoken politically and hasn't
said a word, you know what I mean?
Like, where are you, bitch, you know, And it is very
disappointing. But I think that it speaks to
(33:52):
this bigger thing of celebritiesare not leaders and these are
not people that we should be admiring or even emulating in
terms of politics or anything like that.
They are entertainers and we canbe entertained by them.
But these are not great people. These are people who live for
(34:16):
themselves. The vast majority of them are
egomaniacs. They only care about their own
lives and their own pockets. And these are not most of the
most of them, are not people to be admired.
We can have fun with them and wecan be entertained by them, but
they are not our leaders. Yeah, and also speaking we.
(34:37):
Would like them to be, you know,we would like to think that.
The money to be put in you. Know yeah, but I think that
there is a big difference between a true artist and a
corporate entity and sometimes there's some overlap, you know
what I mean? And Madonna's someone, I think,
who's had a lot of overlap, but at the end of the day, she's a
(34:59):
corporate entity. Taylor Swift is the most perfect
example of that. You know, like, I mean, there is
artistry in the sense that, like, she's writing stuff, but
it's not ground breaking, It's not meaningful.
And she does not use her massiveplatform for any kind of
collective good whatsoever. Yeah, like.
(35:20):
So it's like, go ahead and enjoythose songs, but don't pretend
that she's something that she's not.
Like it kind of drives me crazy when people act like she's some
sort of. Savior, Yeah.
Savior. Like, no, she's just an
entertainer, and that's fine. Yeah, but just call it what it
is. Exactly.
I mean, you're a 36 year old woman acting like a white girl
(35:41):
writing teenage songs that profit that you profited off
very well. Good for you for doing that.
But it's also funny because she's the same age as Adele.
She's only three years younger than Lady Gaga.
I mean, both of them are immensely more talented in my
humble. Absolutely.
You see Mayhem? Did you see the Mayhem tour?
No, because she didn't come to Montreal, but I'm going in the
(36:02):
spring. It was amazing.
But even Lady Gaga have to admitI'm like, disappointed by, you
know, like I'm excited to see the show.
She is an amazing talent. And again, we can be entertained
by these people. But like, you know, when she
first came out, I was so obsessed with her.
And in some ways, like, without sounding overdramatic, like she
did kind of have changed my life, honestly, just in terms of
(36:24):
like, giving me the strength to just genuinely be myself.
And I'll sort of always be grateful to her for that.
But like, you know, in these last couple of years, she
doesn't really say anything thatmatters.
You know, like she's up in her tower like the rest of them.
Yeah, and what were your thoughts on Mariah Carey's new
Christmas commercial with Sephora?
(36:46):
Oh God, I mean like it's so funny because like every what
for the last 3-4 years now we always get her like November 1st
video announcing the holiday season, which is bullshit and I
still remember and there the footage exists.
It is out there, you can find it.
Before this became such a thing with social media, you know,
(37:08):
like we're talking maybe 10 years ago when people would ask
Mariah about Christmas, even sheherself would say she never
listens to Christmas music before December 1st.
You know which? And who the hell wants to listen
to Christmas music before December 1st?
Not me, but I think that Mariah's just like, I don't
understand that she's making a ton of money off of this song
(37:29):
every single year. It's crazy how much money she
makes from this Christmas side of her business.
It's almost the entire business at this point to be honest.
But I think it has tarnished herlegacy because I think that
Mariah is a genuinely genius songwriter and it's so
overshadowed by all the tacky Christmas crap.
(37:51):
Yeah. And also, I think what what she
did with that commercial, it's like it came at a horrible time
when Sephora was kind of making fun of the general public about
like, Oh yeah, we're going on boycott.
The elves are going on boycott. And what that actually relate
that what that relate to is thatpeople are losing their
benefits, the snap benefits and people are going hungry.
(38:13):
Yeah. And things are getting super
expensive right now. So it's like that's.
Very tone deaf. It's very tone deaf.
But you know what? It's very Maria Antoinette.
Let them eat cake. Yes, but there's so it's not
just Mariah. That Maria Antoinette vibe that
you're talking about is so across the board right now.
Like people are so tone deaf. Like even like yesterday or two
(38:38):
days ago, like Jlo has a new corporate endorsement.
She's like like working for thisdiamond company now I'm like, go
away. She does not.
Know how to go away she just double s down when she.
Just double s down. But like, do these people
seriously need to be making moremoney?
Like come on you guys. Like do something radical, do
(38:59):
something important, do something meaningful.
Stop selling us shit that we don't need.
Right, exactly. Do we need like another version
of Taylor albums, Taylor Swift CD like a nerve vinyl cover, a
different cover of it? Like, no I don't.
But it's just funny that with Mariah, like, you know, again,
her like, you know, new or relatively new tradition of the
(39:20):
November 1st video, like the last few years, like they
weren't monetized. Like she just made them, you
know? But now it's like, oh, we can't
even do this thing just for fun.We have to get money for it, you
know? It's like it.
Yeah. Like you said, it's just really,
really tone deaf. Even Taylor Swift.
I think that like that's a big like it's interesting to see.
(39:43):
It's not necessarily a backlash,but people losing interest
because her last album, which I didn't listen to, but I read
reviews and I read some of the lyrics.
Like it also speaks to that justtotal tone deafness, you know,
like running around with like what, a $5,000,000 engagement
ring or however much it costs. Like as if we're all supposed to
be happy for you. Like like when you said so many
(40:03):
of us are struggling just to stay alive.
Like read the room. Bitch, do you think that people
have had enough of supporting big music artists these days?
Do you think this is the end of the celebrity standing coach or
the beginning of the end of standing culture?
That's such a great question andI'm genuinely something I talked
(40:24):
to my friends a lot about. I think it's sort of twofold.
I do think that the age of like the big celebrity, like
monoculture is over because everything is niche now.
You know, everyone's on their phones.
They're only seeing things that the algorithm is presenting them
with. If you do not have curiosity
(40:46):
about what exists outside of your own interests and seek that
out, you will never be shown it,You know?
So whereas like what I was a kidin the 90s and like, you know,
when I wanted to hear a song, I had to listen to the radio for
like an hour just to hear the one song that I wanted to hear.
And in that time, I would learn about all the other songs that
(41:08):
were out. And so like, I would actually
know the songs that I hate as much as I knew the songs that I
love, which I think is a really good thing.
I think it's a bad thing when you're just in an echo chamber
24/7. But I just think that now
everything is so fractured and divided that that big celebrity
(41:28):
culture is over. And I do think a lot of people
are really turned off by the sort of tone deafness of these
big celebrities. Like, I think people think it's
bullshit. I think they see all of these
big celebrities as like Marie Antoinette kind of figures.
I really do think so. But then at the same time, with
(41:49):
the death of that sort of mainstream celebrity
monoculture, there's now the birth of like influencer culture
and you have people presenting themselves as like life coaches
or gurus, and they have so much influence over people's lives
when they don't know shit about anything.
(42:10):
And that's extremely dangerous. And through that, obviously
we've seen like the, the propagation of false news and
how dangerous that is. So I, it's, it's bad all around.
You know, I don't think the lossof celebrity culture is a bad
thing. I actually think it's a good
thing. I do not think that we should be
idolizing these people. But I also think the rise of the
(42:34):
influencer culture is a very badthing as well.
Yeah. And what ways do you have you
challenge your energy from thesebig artists?
Like, but for me, I'm looking toinvest more in the indie artists
or like just, or spend more timetouching grass these days and.
Like. Honestly, like, honestly, like
after I have, I have spent a lotof money the last three years on
(42:56):
concerts and I mean every. Anybody.
I've spent so much money on concerts and like CDs and
records in my life, Merch. I don't even want to know how
much money I've spent over the last 20 years.
I don't even want. To.
I don't even want to know, but I, but I really do love pop
(43:16):
culture, you know, and my taste in music, I hate to admit it
does skew very mainstream. Like I like mainstream pop, you
know, but I, but to be honest, like I kind of listened to the
same artist that I've been listening to since I was 12.
You know, like every now and then there is a new artist that
comes around that I really like.Like, for example, I really love
(43:36):
Addison Ray's album, and I neverthought that I would ever love
like an album from someone like her.
And like, you know, I've heard that she has like an IDF soldier
boyfriend and that really turns me off.
And like, you know, there was even a part of me because I love
the album so much that like, I wanted to like, go get the
vinyl, but I'm like, why? There's no need to support this
(43:58):
bitch financially. I'm like, I can just listen to
the songs and that's fine. So I think that for me, it's
more like it's not necessarily the music that I'm listening to
is changing. It's more just that like my
attitude towards it is changing.And I don't want to give these
bitches my money anymore. You know, even with Madonna,
like on the celebration tour, I almost didn't go.
(44:20):
And, you know, back in the day, like, I would try to get like
the best ticket possible. But now when I buy tickets to
concerts, I'm actually looking for the cheapest ticket
possible. I don't care where I'm sitting,
you know, I just want to be there, but I don't want to spend
a lot of money. So like, yeah, I'm definitely
like cutting back on that. And most of the music that I
buy, like I do, I do still love physical media.
(44:43):
Like I love the artwork on albums.
So like I have a big vinyl collection and CD collection and
I still love those things. But I would say that like 90% of
the stuff that I buy is from like used record stores.
So like it's more, it's more going to my local businesses.
It's not that money is not goingto them.
(45:03):
You know they don't need my money anymore.
Yeah. And I think, and I also not
Beyoncé does not need my money anymore because.
Absolutely not. The merch I have like lost so
much on the merch because that. Is it's so expensive?
Yeah. $100 for a program, mind you, for.
Brand. Yeah, I know.
It's crazy. It makes no sense.
And also like that reminds me oflike, cuz, you know, sometimes
(45:25):
I'll make little Instagram videos that talk about some of
the things that you and I are talking about right now.
And fans can get really defensive about their favorite
artists. Like they cannot handle
criticism of their favorite artists, which is really
embarrassing for them. Yes, but like in the in my mind,
I'm always like, these billionaires do not need your
(45:45):
help. Like they are not struggling.
And even if some random bitch inMontreal hates Taylor Swift,
she's not hurting for it. Trust me.
No, and they don't need. You to defend, they don't know
you and no billionaire needs your defense.
Like please get real. Yeah.
You know, when I was a kid and someone would say something bad
about Madonna, I would kind of take it personally because I was
(46:08):
a kid and I wrapped up so much of my identity in my fandom.
But like, I was a kid, you know?Like I, I'm thankful that like,
I've been able to make a life for myself that is not
exclusively about being someone's fan.
Yeah, I think for next year I'm kind of like thinking there's
(46:29):
not really many concerts I want to go to anymore.
Like, I feel like I've already done my damage and it's like,
OK, you know, I need to, like, start focusing and shifting
other things. You know what I feel is
important. I think the only concert I would
really want to go to, rumor has it.
I hope it stays. I hope it's true.
It would be Sade. I would literally.
Well, that would be really worthseeing.
(46:50):
I would go to that too because Ithink that if you get a chance
to see the legends, you have to go.
Yes. Like, I had a chance, like
George Michael came to Montreal in 2006 on his, like, Greatest
Hits tour, but I didn't know that would be his last tour, you
know? And I was more of a casual fan,
so I didn't go. But like, I think that even if
(47:12):
you're not the biggest fan when it comes to the legends, you
have to go. Yeah, I agree, because that's
what I've been doing a lot of. Like I'm seeing Paul McCartney
at them this month. I know he's gonna be in his 80s.
I saw Paul Simon earlier this year and he's 80.
That's. Amazing.
And yeah, you have. You have to see them.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of wild, but for me it's kind of like
(47:34):
it's, it's my old childhood soundtrack that I'm trying to
like, understand, like this is the last time I'll probably ever
see them. And yeah, this is their way of
sun setting. From this, honestly, concerts
are truly my biggest joy. Like I love going to a concert,
especially of an artist who means something to me.
(47:56):
It's just really such a shame that it's become so unbelievably
expensive. Like it?
Has been. It is truly.
I don't think it's justifiable to be honest.
Like at a certain point it's like, you know, dial back on
some of the production value andbecause we just want to see you,
you know, like we just want to see the artist.
(48:18):
So like, if it means putting together a more simple stage,
then just do that, you know? And Mariah Carey just do meet
and greet instead of touring because I don't.
Think she oh, it's sad. It's.
Kind of hard to watch her just. It's hard to watch because I'm
also like, why is she doing thisto herself?
Like she has enough money that she does not need to be
performing if she's not well enough to be performing.
(48:40):
Yeah, and I'm like. Just like to me, that's the
whole, to me, that would be like, the best part of being
rich is that like you don't haveto work as much.
Right, right. So I don't know what that's
trying to what she's. Trying to I really don't know
unless. Someone is like putting a gun to
her head. It's like you gotta make money
for us. Too.
I'm sure there's part of that. Yes, I do think that's part of
(49:02):
it. And sometimes I also believe
that these celebrities are not as rich in reality as they are
on paper. So I think there's some of that
going on as well. Yeah, and I think like I'm
hearing like Shirley Manson fromGarbage said that she's gonna
stop touring in the US. I love her so much.
Yeah. And, you know, I love her too.
(49:22):
I think she's been very outspoken, yes.
Has also said, well, you know, guys like everything touring is
so expensive. Like, you know, there's like
indie artists, like they're barely like, yeah, barely
affords thing at motels, you know?
Yeah, no, it's hard. Laundry.
And it's like, this is not the life.
I mean streaming. Unfortunately, Spotify is being
the evil empire that it is, as well as awful, awful.
(49:44):
Yeah, like literally just nickeland diming artists and
songwriters. I know.
Yeah, I know it's, it's all verybleak, honestly, but I would,
you know, I really do profoundlybelieve that the arts is our
humanity. And to live in an artless
(50:05):
society or culture would be death.
And it's really tragic that the arts are not protected and
valued in the way that it they should be because we are nothing
without the arts. And I would say especially the
live performing arts, which bring us together face to face.
(50:27):
To have a human collective experience like it is so
important. I wholeheartedly agree.
And as we wrap up, what are the things that you're that you're
doing for yourself to wrap up this year as you head into 20,
as you head into 2026? Or as we head into 2020.
Yeah. I mean, oh God, that's such a
(50:49):
good question. I do feel rundown and burned
out. So I would like to ideally take
the month of December and even January, like, as relaxed as
possible. Like, I'm a freelance artist,
you know, So like, it's always scary.
It's like the beginning of everyyear.
I'm always like, how am I gonna survive this year?
(51:11):
Literally every year for me starts with a kind of
existential crisis. But somehow things always do
work out, knock on wood. And I think that I need to give
myself a little time to regenerate and recharge, you
know, because I do feel like this year, like for many of us,
has just taken a lot out of me. And I really just want to spend
(51:36):
time and hang out with my friends.
That's literally the number one thing that I want and need right
now. Yeah.
And I just want to say thank youso much, Trina, for being on my
show. And it's such a pleasure talking
and kicking about like today's pop culture because it's been on
(51:56):
my mind for the last few months.I think ever since like my end
of summer concerts and having todeal with what I think when
Beyoncé was with with the questioners, that was like, OK.
Oh my God, I know. I was like, OK, well this
confirms it. You know, she really doesn't
have a spine. No, not at all.
(52:16):
That was extreme. I mean, I'm not the biggest
Beyoncé fan, so it's not like itwas a big blow to me personally.
But like, I, yeah, that you can't Unsee that, you know?
And like, if Madonna had been inthat position, I don't know if I
could really listen to her anymore.
Like, it'd be hard, you know, It'd be, I don't know, it's so
fucking complicated to like, separate the art from the
(52:38):
artist. Right, right.
Absolutely. Especially music, because music
is so personal. Absolutely.
It's, it's a life. It's a soundtrack for us.
Yeah. And that's.
And that's what's so important. And yeah, I can't wait to see
what you do elsewhere. And I also hope that you still
have time to finish the J Shettyinterview with Madonna.
I'm just joking. Oh, I am not watching the
(52:58):
second-half of that when? When she's joined by the
Kabbalah director or whatever his name is.
I am not. Life is too short, OK?
All right.
Hi everyone, this is Randy Kim from the Bundy Chronicles
podcast, so I am joined by TranaWintour.
Trana Wintour is a highly acclaimed bilingual comedian,
singer, writer, Hostess and producer.
Legendary comedian Sandra Bernhardt described her as a
candle in the window on a cold dark's winter night.
I just for laughs new face Canada in 2019, Tran out was
(00:27):
named one of the Queens of Canadian comedy by fashion
magazine and you have been featured in the Quebec head
series Big Brother celebrities and you have Co hosted the CBC
podcast chosen family for three seasons, which was what named
one of Apple's Apple's best podcast for two consecutive
(00:47):
years. Your debut album, Say From Your
Affection, is available on all streaming platforms and you are
currently developing an originalcomedy series with a major
Canadian broadcaster. So I first learned of you
through your guest appearances on the MOVC Madonna podcast.
Shout out to them. Yeah, shout out.
Yes, and I love your hot takes on Madonna's legacy and I've
(01:11):
since followed you on Instagram as a long time fan of Madonna
myself. More specifically the 1st 20
years. Sorry, I know it sounds like a
shade there. It's not shady, it's accurate.
Well, it is accurate. It was refreshing to hear you
talk both brilliantly about Madonna's legacy while pointing
(01:32):
out on her serious flaws. And I'm excited to get into your
thoughts about her and and also on pop music culture.
But first, like how have you been navigating 2025 so far?
Oh my God. Start with an easy question.
Yeah, it is very loaded. I mean, obviously this year just
(01:53):
on a very macro, global scale has been horrific, a really hard
year. I think we're all feeling it, I
think. I think also there's this
unspoken trauma that we all experienced during the pandemic
that I feel like we've just kindof swept under the rug and
haven't addressed. And I think that that plays into
(02:14):
a lot of things that are happening and a lot of what
we're feeling right now. So I won't lie, it's been a
really difficult year, as I think it's been for anyone with
a conscience and but you know, in a weird way, on a personal
level, like creatively, professionally, like knock on
wood, I've actually had a decentyear.
(02:36):
But, you know, I think that as much as I can be, I try to be a
really present person. Like I think it's important to
be aware of what's going on in the world of what's going on in
your local communities. Sometimes I can be a little
overwhelmed and like swallowed up by it.
But I think it's our responsibility to to be awake
(02:59):
and to be active in trying to combat some of the awful things
going on. Yeah.
And I know touching up on that, you're based in Montreal,
Canada. What does that look like for
you, watching what has happened in the US and across the globe
and in your own backyard? Well, you know, Canada
geographically is extremely close to the US Obviously, we
(03:21):
share a major border that, I mean, basically spans the length
of the country. So we're very influenced by what
goes on in the US, like we always have been.
What goes on in your country hasa direct effect on what goes on
in our country here. So you know, in Canada too,
there is this rise of conservatism and it's alarming.
(03:46):
I think that like Montreal for example, for a long time has
really been a bohemian punk citythat's been a place for artists
to come and thrive. Because for a very long time,
we're talking up until like 6 years ago, Montreal was an
extremely affordable city, but one of the only major North
(04:06):
American cities that was truly affordable.
And just in these last 6-7 years, it has changed so
drastically. You know, I've really witnessed
my city that I love so much losing so much of the things
that make it great. So that's, you know, that's
something that's hard to watch. We also like, I mean, we're
coming off the night after the amazing mayoral election in New
(04:30):
York, which is so exciting and inspiring.
But in Montreal, we also had a mayoral election a few days ago
and we elected someone horrible who is in bed with Airbnb and
who is like just so on the wrongside of things and had so many
like racist candidates in her party.
Like it's just, it's not great here either.
(04:52):
It's not quite to the level of the US, thank God.
But we definitely have our issues here too.
Yeah. And how do you feel about where
the queer and trans community isin the in Montreal more
specifically? Well, I think on that front,
Montreal has always been quite aprogressive city.
You know, I've always felt quitesafe as an out trans person in
(05:14):
the city. You know, I think that our city
right now is experiencing like amajor housing crisis.
And with that obviously comes a really major and heartbreaking
homeless situation. And I know that for some people
there is this feeling that Montreal like has become more
dangerous or unsafe, but it's truly one of the safest cities
(05:36):
in the world. And I still feel that way.
I think that there is a general rise in transphobia and
homophobia happening not just inCanada or the US, but more
broadly. I think there's so much false
information, and I think that trans and queer people are
really being used as a scapegoatfor so many political programs.
That is truly horrifying. So there definitely is some of
(05:59):
that, you know, like Montreal has definitely lost some of its
progressive character. But I would say that I still
feel quite safe here. Yeah.
And how do you step into your thought authenticity as a trans
woman when you have a public platform?
What responsibility does it carry for you?
That's a great question. I mean, I, you know, I feel I
(06:21):
can't represent like an entire community.
Obviously I don't think any minority community can ever be
fully represented by just one ortwo people.
I'm thankful for my visibility as a very, very minor public
figure in Canada. But I to me, I really do think
(06:43):
that the role of artists is to help come to some sort of
understanding of the human condition and the state of the
world. You know?
So for me, it's like I do feel apersonal responsibility to use
the little platform that I have to talk about the things that
that matter to me, which is basically just human rights.
(07:05):
Like, it's just so wild to me that things as truly simple as
human rights, human decency, affordable housing, affordable
food, access to free health care, how these things have
become so polarizing when it's like everyone deserves these
basic things. Like I was watching a video
(07:25):
earlier today of like the crazy,you know, right wing US
political commentators freaking out over Zoran's victory.
And they're talking about him like he's a demon when literally
all he wants is for New Yorkers to have affordable housing and
free transit. And they treat him like he is a
(07:46):
demon. It's truly insane.
It, it really is because it's like it's a weird timeline to
be. And I've told this to a lot of
my friends on a daily basis because like the snap benefits
in the US, like which actually feeds many folks there are low
income are getting like cut likethis month as we speak.
And, and a lot of the mega Republicans are like trying to
(08:09):
like say, Oh, it's a Democrats fault.
And I'm like the the, the goal post, the movement of the goal
post is just like really amazes me.
Like they can't take responsibility.
That's the. For anything and just the
complete manipulation and distortion of the truth.
And I, I love that Zoran broughtthat up in his victory speech.
(08:29):
You know, like Cuomo and all those billionaire goons spent so
much money on advertising and campaigns to manipulate and
twist the truth into lies and itdidn't work.
Thank God, you know? But there is that attempt on
their part to always twist things again, even to take this
(08:50):
man who literally again, just wants people to be housed and
have free transit and access to childcare.
And they are vilifying him and acting like he represents the
end of the world when they are the end of the world.
They are the ones that are literally every day actively
(09:10):
trying to make our lives so muchworse by taking away those
benefits that people need by, you know, all the horrific I
stuff that you and I spoke aboutoff camera.
Like it's just this distortion of reality and their and the
fact that so many people fall for it when it's not even
logical, like it doesn't even make sense.
(09:31):
And yet so many people fall for it.
It's just, yeah, we're living ina truly very bizarre timeline,
very dystopian. But again, moments like last
night remind us that, like, if we can actually put aside the
bullshit culture wars and just unite, because ultimately this
(09:51):
is a class war. So if the 99% of us who are not
billionaires can unite, we can really get things done.
But they've done a very good jobof making us so divided, you
know, which again, like Zoran proved that we can get past the
division and actually work together and achieve something
(10:11):
that is for the collective good.And I really hope that last
night is is a sign that we are moving in that direction because
we cannot keep going the way we're going.
Yeah, because I cannot tell you how many times I would have
angry phone calls with like other friends of mine.
I'm like, you know, why am I still here?
(10:32):
I know, I just. Timeline.
I, I know, and I've been having more and more like not radical
conversation with, with my friends, but I would say
practical in the sense that, yes, a lot of my conversations
with my friends is sort of aboutletting the rage out and venting
and, you know, commiserating with each other.
(10:54):
But I think now I'm seeing my conversations with my friends
moving towards more things like what can we actually do to
change things? You know, so like, for example,
here in Canada, we don't have states, we have provinces and
each province has a leader kind of like a governor basically.
So we have one of those elections coming up next year.
(11:14):
And it's like last night made merealize that like, we have to
start mobilizing now, you know? And I do feel actually really
energized now to really participate in a concrete way
because I don't think it's enough to just go on social
media and share thoughts and tell people to go vote.
Like that's not enough. And I don't think anyone's minds
(11:37):
really get changed online. But what was so impressive about
Zoran's campaign is that like, it was so grassroots and it was
about canvassing and going door to door and having face to face
conversations with people. And I think that that is the way
forward. Yeah.
And I think you, to your point, like I think it's also goes
beyond Zoran. I also believe that this is
(12:00):
where the direction of so many people want to head, especially
for the Democratic Party, which I can go on with like a new
episode. Yeah, no, it's exactly.
And it's so. It's so wild that the
established Democrats hate him so much, which is proof that
this party, as it is right now, is not for the people.
But I agree with you. This is so much bigger than
(12:21):
Zoran. The fact that his campaign and
his message is literally resonating around the world is
really encouraging. And I think part of the reason
why it's so powerful is because we now have a concrete example
that we can do this. Because I think before him, it
felt so hopeless. It felt so much like, what can
(12:43):
we actually do? We can't do anything.
But that's not true. And to to start pivoting, what
was the inspiration behind the name China Wintour?
Well, Anna Wintour, of course, editor in chief of Vogue
magazine, for anyone who doesn'tknow.
And it's kind of funny because Ifeel like it's a name that I
(13:04):
didn't even get to choose. So Long story short, like, I
guess like we're talking a good 14, almost 15 years ago at this
point, when I was really starting to come to an
understanding of like my trans identity.
It was at the same time that I was also really stepping into my
identity as a performer and as an artist.
(13:25):
And those two things were sort of happening at the same time.
And one Halloween, I dressed up as Anna Wintour.
And that year, my friend dressedup as what we were calling a
trans version of Justin Bieber. And this is when he had just
come out. So like, my friend from like,
the waist up was dressed like Justin Bieber in the baby music
(13:45):
video, but from waist down, she was wearing like, fishnets and
heels. And that whole night we all just
kept referring to her as trans Bieber.
And then I was just kind of like, well, if you're trans
Bieber, then I'm Trana Wintour. And the name just stuck.
And, you know, to be honest, in hindsight, I don't know if
that's the name that I would have or should have chosen for
(14:07):
myself because it really sounds like a drag name.
And I think that sometimes that confuses people into thinking
that I'm a drag queen when I'm trans.
And like, sometimes that can be frustrating.
But at the same time, like the name always gets me a lot of
attention. So yeah, at the same time, I
can't complain too much. Absolutely.
And also, I wonder about your thoughts on Anna Wintour's
(14:30):
legacy. I mean, I noticed that's been a
controversial figure. Yeah, yeah.
That's a great question. You know, I think like, as
someone who's so deeply pop culture obsessed, my
relationship to pop culture has really changed a lot over the
years, as I believe it should for most people.
When you're a kid or a teen or even a young adult, I think
(14:52):
there is a sort of like idolatry, Like there's an
idolizing of your favorites and they can do no wrong.
But hopefully as you grow up, you realize that no one's
perfect and everyone is flawed. And Anna Winter definitely is.
I have a lot of mixed feelings about her.
There's a part of me that reallyadmires what a powerful woman
(15:14):
she is and what she's built for herself.
There's a part of me that's really impressed by that.
I love her personality. I love that she scares people.
I love all of those vibes so much.
But I also hate that she's not very progressive, you know, like
she does. I think she's a perfect example
(15:37):
of like, an establishment Democrat, you know?
Like, I didn't see her fundraising for Zoran.
You know, I think that I would love to see her become more
progressive, but that's just notwho she is.
You know, like, and I don't I don't relate to that part of her
that is definitely like conservative as much as she
(15:57):
likes to think that she's a liberal, like so many people of
her age demographic, you know, that like to think that they are
liberal thinking people, but in reality actually have quite
conservative values and, you know, are really kind of just in
things for themselves and their fellow millionaires and
billionaires. I do not think she's someone who
has given back a whole lot. And with Madonna, it's already
(16:22):
20 years since the Confessions on the Dance Floor album, if you
can believe that. I mean, I that was back when I
was in college. And So what are your thoughts
now about what was going throughyour mind when it came out and
how do you feel about it now after all these years?
Well, I do still vividly remember that period of time.
I remember when the first littleclips of Hung Up started to make
(16:45):
their way online. And I, I remember vividly
listening to the full song for the first time and just being
blown away. And I remember thinking to
myself, I cannot wait to hear this.
Like in a club on like a massivesound system.
It was such an exciting time to be a Madonna fan.
I also associate that time a lotwith the tour as well.
(17:06):
She came to Montreal, she did two nights here and they were
the only Canadian stop. So like the show literally sold
out in like 2 both nights sold out in like 2 minutes and
miraculously like I was able to get tickets and it was just like
that concert is like I think I actually prefer the concert over
(17:26):
the album like. I do.
Maybe this is like an unpopular opinion.
I don't think it's the best album.
I think the singles are amazing.I think like half of the album
is brilliant and the other half is just good, you know?
But the tour is a full on masterpiece, even just as a
(17:48):
concert film, like the way it was filmed and edited, like as
just as a piece of film is a masterpiece.
So, you know, and I do think that that was that was the last
imperial age of her career. You know, like, I do think that
that was, yeah, the crowning glory.
(18:09):
And I wish that it could have continued.
And I think that there was a wayfor it to continue.
But I think she lost a lot of her confidence after her divorce
with Guy Ritchie. I really do identify that as
being something that really changed the direction of her
life so dramatically. I think she became really
insecure. I think that in that insecurity,
(18:32):
you know, there was this attemptto follow trends instead of set
trends. And I think she got really lost
in the following of those trends.
There's an amazing French artistnamed Milan Farmer who's massive
in France and other like French speaking places in the world.
And she's often compared to Madonna, like every, you know,
(18:53):
female pop star with longevity. But she started in the 80s
around the same time as Madonna and, like, you know, explored a
lot of similar themes in her work.
But she's someone who really managed to maintain her artistic
vision and integrity. And even just like 2 years ago,
she released like one of the best albums of her career.
Like to me, I don't understand how Madonna has not released a
(19:18):
truly great album in like 20 years.
That's crazy to me. It really.
Especially because from 1983, like from the debut to
Confessions, every single one ofthose albums is amazing.
Yeah, it's a landmark each. And it's like there were times
(19:39):
when Madonna album or single comes out and it becomes like a
huge a conversation on the wateron the on the water cooler.
Yes. And it's like, it's like I used
to remember being so excited when a Madonna album comes out.
I would go home from school, like or from college and I'll
just grab an album and play it And just it feels like such a
(20:03):
revelation each time. Yes.
And yes, you're right. I do believe that the confession
story is actually better than the album itself because I saw
twice in Chicago and. And I was just so blown away.
Like everything about it was like I remember the the gym bars
were like yes, high and it came down, you know, for jump and you
(20:24):
know, it was like magnificent. Yeah, it really was.
Especially erotica. You throw me that?
Was, Oh my God, incredible. Yeah, incredible.
Ben has had me in a chokehold for the last 20 years.
Already, Yeah, as well. Yeah, I would say especially the
first act with all the horses and the equestrian theme, like
also just the intro, you know, like the video and then the
(20:48):
disco ball descending and the way it opens up and everyone
loses their mind. Like it's so magical.
She was really at the height of her powers.
Yeah, she should have at least swapped out Lisa Bonita for
everybody because she was supposed to do everybody, but
she's. No, I really love that version
of Lisa Bonita, I have to say. And what I also, what I love
about it is that, like, and you can see this especially like in
(21:11):
the concert film, like, she looks so happy.
Oh, yeah. Like when she's dancing around
to Lisa Bonita, like she has this giant smile on her face
that we've not really seen a lotin these 40 years, You know?
Like she's not the happiest person in the world, no.
Especially towards her fans, like in concerts.
Oh, I know. It's so funny.
I always joke with my friends that like, you know, when you
(21:33):
compare her to other pop stars like Kylie or Lady Gaga, who are
literally like, on their knees thanking their fans, you have
Madonna almost like spitting on her fans and being like, you
guys suck. It's just funny.
And like, part of the reason that we love her is the sort of
brat side of her, you know? Exactly.
And you know, what's kind of interesting is after the guy
(21:55):
Richie marriage, I think her career really did start to
unravel, obviously around that time because when she started
working with Timberlake, Boo. And.
Timbaland and Pharrell. But then when Lady Gaga came out
around that time, something toldme that she felt very threatened
by it. I know a lot of Madonna fans are
(22:16):
going to, like, come after me for saying this, but like, but
Lady Gaga was different than Britney Spears.
Yes. And because Britney Spears, it
felt like Madonna can really have her at the palm of her
hands. Exactly.
And I felt. Like, she could like, OK, at
least I know that Britney's not a threat to me because Britney
will worship me. But Lady Gaga, it's like, yeah,
(22:37):
I respect you, but you're not the only one.
Because I always felt that, and I would tell this to people,
Lady Gaga is more out to John. I don't know, I.
Completely agree. Wardrobe, you know, and, and her
being very like, very being verysophisticated and, and not the
controversial acts that Madonna would put on.
(23:00):
So it felt like Madonna did not know what to do with Lady Gaga.
So I felt like she was trying sohard to.
I agree with you, but I think Madonna was already in a fragile
place when Lady Gaga came onto the scene because obviously we
know, especially 20 years ago, that, you know, the pop music
(23:21):
world is extremely ageist. It's so rare that any woman over
40 has had a number one hit. I think you can literally count
and still to this day on one hand, the number of women over
40 who had a number one hit. And so I think Madonna was
feeling all of those things. I think she was feeling the
insecurity that came with the devastation of that divorce.
(23:43):
And then you have this juggernaut of an artist, Lady
Gaga, that comes out and dominates the pop culture scene
in a way that not even Britney had, you know, in a way that no
one had before or, I mean, or since Madonna, you know, like
Lady Gaga was the only one who was able to sort of create the
(24:05):
level of spectacle and frenzy that Madonna and Michael Jackson
and Janet did in their days, youknow?
So yes, I agree with you. I think she was the she was
shaken by that. And I think that she didn't know
how to find or maintain her place in the pop world.
(24:26):
Ironically, I think the answer was actually very simple.
I think Madonna just needed to stay true to herself as an
artist instead of trying to makemusic that sounded like the
things that were on the radio, because she never did that.
Right. And you know.
She always followed her own artistic curiosity and she would
always seek out underground producers and she was always so
(24:50):
ahead of the curve because she was doing the things that she
was responding to authentically.Yeah.
And also, I think it's interesting to point out that
and many of our tours, recent tours accept celebration.
She would always avoid doing a lot of major hits.
Maybe she'll give you a sprinkle.
Yes. And I always felt that it was
(25:10):
also ruining her own legacy withher own longtime fans because
they're like, look, I grew up tothis music.
I don't want to hear the new stuff.
I'm not nothing with it, you know?
Yeah, So and that was always, that was frustrating.
I think the most frustrating tour for me had to be the Madame
X tour for a number of reasons. Because, yes, I like the fact
that I was in a theatre. I like the fact that I almost
(25:32):
got a chance of fist bump on Madonna, which came by me, but I
got my hand knocked out by a security guard.
I held her hand on the MDNA tour.
Gosh, I'm so jealous. But like, but that is so wild.
But like, but yeah, at that tour, I was, it was like she
didn't get on stage until nearlymidnight.
And yeah, I know I was. She has.
Tired. Yeah.
(25:52):
And I was so tired throughout the show because I was like, the
songs were not matching the energy.
It's like, look, just put it in the morning time.
Just be brave and put it at 9:00AM because at least I'd go.
But this is but that that was sofrustrating for me as a fan
because I was like, I think artistically it looked great,
but to be at like 1:00 AM hearing her do Portuguese covers
(26:15):
is not ideal for. Me, I I do agree with you.
Like I, I want. I didn't.
That's the only tour since the first tour that I ever saw was
reinvention. That was my first time seeing
Madonna when I was like just finishing high school and it was
such a dream come true. And since Reinvention, I've seen
(26:36):
every show at least twice. But Madam X is the only one I I
didn't see live because I, I wasnot crazy about the album and
she didn't come to Canada. And I just couldn't justify
spending all that money to hear an album that I didn't even
really like. And I watched the concert film
(26:56):
and I liked it, but I didn't love it, you know?
And I thought some of it was really actually quite gringe,
like there's a lot of white stuff going on in that show that
I found really almost comical, honestly.
Right. But there's a little.
What was that one song? Batuka.
Yeah. But and also killers who are
partying, Yes. Killers who are partying that
song. Which is my most hated Madonna
(27:18):
song of all? Time it's.
Awful. It's ridiculous.
And also the reason that it's soridiculous is that she doesn't
actually do that much for the world.
She loves to project this image of herself as a freedom fighter
and a rebel heart and has this song Killers who are partying,
where she's literally saying that she will defend all these
(27:40):
marginalized communities, and she never does.
So that's what also adds to the ridiculousness if she was
actually doing something. I mean, I know she has the
Raising Malawi Foundation, and that's great.
Although I've heard different things, you know, but there's so
many things that she doesn't even talk about publicly.
(28:01):
You know, she doesn't even use her power and her voice to talk
about things that are happening now.
So like she's a, she's always been a bit of a hypocrite, I
think. Yeah, because I feel like the
worst thing that's happened to her legacy is social media.
It is the worst thing. And Milan Farmer, the French
artist that I was telling you about, she doesn't even have a
(28:22):
website. Wow like she never got on social
media and in between albums she literally disappears.
But but it does not affect her popularity because every time
she comes out with a new album the fans go crazy.
She's still having massive hit albums.
(28:43):
She literally just did a stadiumtour like 2 years ago, sold out,
you know, and it's like, that's what I wanted for Madonna.
I wanted Madonna to just, you know, continue with her artistic
vision and just remain true to that.
But I think, I think that for those first 25 years that we
(29:03):
talk about so lovingly, I think that she did manage to navigate
the artistry and the fame and the celebrity side of things.
But it's like after 2008, it just became all about the
celebrity side of things and thefame and maintaining the fame
and the art suffered, whereas before the art never suffered,
(29:24):
you know, because of her unrelenting desire to be
constantly in the spotlight. Yeah.
And also, like, I almost did notgo to celebration tour last
year. I think it was because Amy
Schumer came out as one of the judges.
I know which is awful. And that was horrible.
And for those that don't know, she's a Zionist, she's a very
(29:47):
well known Zionist and Madonna has had a lot of very both side
isms. Yes, big.
Time and I think that's where I struggle as a fan and this is
kind of where I'm starting to struggle right now with
celebrity music celebrity pop culture more specifically like
like I have been long time fans of like you know Janet Mariah
(30:12):
you know Coldplay system of a down all these different artists
and yeah all of them have done problematic things Janet Jackson
like you know did not think Kamala Harris I know that was so
heartbreaking that's so. Heartbreaking.
Problematic in her own way for. Sure, that was heartbreaking.
I do have a hard time with it too.
I think, you know, I do think that a lot of Madonna's
(30:36):
Zionistic tendencies are due to the people she surrounds herself
with. I don't think that that comes
from her because she idolizes and worships James Baldwin and
it's like, bitch, if you love James Baldwin this much, why
don't you actually listen to thethings he said, you know?
And the both siding thing that, like you pointed out, she is so
(30:57):
much that she is definitely A2 sider kind of person is very
disappointing. But there's a part of me that's
grateful that it's at least not full on Zionism.
Like she's not out there like Debra Messing saying like kill
all of them. You know, like there are degrees
of Zionism. I don't think Madonna is the
worst, but I agree that any degree of it is horrible and
(31:20):
hard to reconcile as a fan. Like I have a friend of mine who
we actually met because of Madonna and we used to go to all
the concerts together. And for my friend, that was a
really hard line. She did not go to the
celebration tour. She even actually she had bought
tickets and then she sold them, she got rid of them and she will
(31:40):
not listen to Madonna anymore. And honestly, I don't blame her.
I I really do understand people making that choice.
Yeah, and it's also interesting because like this year I've been
to a couple of concerts, spent alot of good money.
I spent it on Beyoncé's Cowboy Carter tour, Coldplay.
One of them is Coldplay's tour, Stadium tour and then System of
(32:04):
a Down Oasis and, you know, Grace Jones.
Yeah. Oh, Grace Jones.
You saw Grace. Jones yes, I did.
I actually got to touch her hand.
She. OK, that's the I'd rather touch
Grace Jones's hands on Madonna'shand.
I, I agree. I agree.
I mean Grace Jones, I was like hysterical, but like, but like
the Beyoncé, Coldplay, even System of a down.
I mean, they have done some veryproblematic things this year and
(32:26):
I'm like Jesus Christ, like I. Just, well, even bands like,
even bands like Radiohead, even.Yes, I used to.
Listen to Bono all the time. Like Bono who?
I mean, I was never a big U2 fan, so I'm it's not like it
affects me, but but Bono used tobe regarded as this like leader
in terms of like human rights and political activism.
(32:47):
And he's a fucking Zionist. Like it's crazy.
But he's also managed by Guy Osiri, Yes.
And he is evil, I truly believe.And I think that he, you know,
manipulates a lot of people, including the acts that he
manages, manipulates them into getting on board with this
horrific agenda, you know? But I do think that there's
(33:10):
still a part of Madonna that canactually see what's happening
for what it is, you know? But she is not doing nearly
enough. But yeah, I, I think that it,
you know, you're, you're saying that all of these artists that
you love have done problematic things over the last couple of
years. I think we all relate to that.
(33:31):
Sometimes also silence can be very disappointing.
You know, like when I look at someone who I love, like Cher
and Cher has always been so outspoken politically and hasn't
said a word, you know what I mean?
Like, where are you, bitch, you know, And it is very
disappointing. But I think that it speaks to
(33:52):
this bigger thing of celebritiesare not leaders and these are
not people that we should be admiring or even emulating in
terms of politics or anything like that.
They are entertainers and we canbe entertained by them.
But these are not great people. These are people who live for
(34:16):
themselves. The vast majority of them are
egomaniacs. They only care about their own
lives and their own pockets. And these are not most of the
most of them, are not people to be admired.
We can have fun with them and wecan be entertained by them, but
they are not our leaders. Yeah, and also speaking we.
(34:37):
Would like them to be, you know,we would like to think that.
The money to be put in you. Know yeah, but I think that
there is a big difference between a true artist and a
corporate entity and sometimes there's some overlap, you know
what I mean? And Madonna's someone, I think,
who's had a lot of overlap, but at the end of the day, she's a
(34:59):
corporate entity. Taylor Swift is the most perfect
example of that. You know, like, I mean, there is
artistry in the sense that, like, she's writing stuff, but
it's not ground breaking, It's not meaningful.
And she does not use her massiveplatform for any kind of
collective good whatsoever. Yeah, like.
(35:20):
So it's like, go ahead and enjoythose songs, but don't pretend
that she's something that she's not.
Like it kind of drives me crazy when people act like she's some
sort of. Savior, Yeah.
Savior. Like, no, she's just an
entertainer, and that's fine. Yeah, but just call it what it
is. Exactly.
I mean, you're a 36 year old woman acting like a white girl
(35:41):
writing teenage songs that profit that you profited off
very well. Good for you for doing that.
But it's also funny because she's the same age as Adele.
She's only three years younger than Lady Gaga.
I mean, both of them are immensely more talented in my
humble. Absolutely.
You see Mayhem? Did you see the Mayhem tour?
No, because she didn't come to Montreal, but I'm going in the
(36:02):
spring. It was amazing.
But even Lady Gaga have to admitI'm like, disappointed by, you
know, like I'm excited to see the show.
She is an amazing talent. And again, we can be entertained
by these people. But like, you know, when she
first came out, I was so obsessed with her.
And in some ways, like, without sounding overdramatic, like she
did kind of have changed my life, honestly, just in terms of
(36:24):
like, giving me the strength to just genuinely be myself.
And I'll sort of always be grateful to her for that.
But like, you know, in these last couple of years, she
doesn't really say anything thatmatters.
You know, like she's up in her tower like the rest of them.
Yeah, and what were your thoughts on Mariah Carey's new
Christmas commercial with Sephora?
(36:46):
Oh God, I mean like it's so funny because like every what
for the last 3-4 years now we always get her like November 1st
video announcing the holiday season, which is bullshit and I
still remember and there the footage exists.
It is out there, you can find it.
Before this became such a thing with social media, you know,
(37:08):
like we're talking maybe 10 years ago when people would ask
Mariah about Christmas, even sheherself would say she never
listens to Christmas music before December 1st.
You know which? And who the hell wants to listen
to Christmas music before December 1st?
Not me, but I think that Mariah's just like, I don't
understand that she's making a ton of money off of this song
(37:29):
every single year. It's crazy how much money she
makes from this Christmas side of her business.
It's almost the entire business at this point to be honest.
But I think it has tarnished herlegacy because I think that
Mariah is a genuinely genius songwriter and it's so
overshadowed by all the tacky Christmas crap.
(37:51):
Yeah. And also, I think what what she
did with that commercial, it's like it came at a horrible time
when Sephora was kind of making fun of the general public about
like, Oh yeah, we're going on boycott.
The elves are going on boycott. And what that actually relate
that what that relate to is thatpeople are losing their
benefits, the snap benefits and people are going hungry.
(38:13):
Yeah. And things are getting super
expensive right now. So it's like that's.
Very tone deaf. It's very tone deaf.
But you know what? It's very Maria Antoinette.
Let them eat cake. Yes, but there's so it's not
just Mariah. That Maria Antoinette vibe that
you're talking about is so across the board right now.
Like people are so tone deaf. Like even like yesterday or two
(38:38):
days ago, like Jlo has a new corporate endorsement.
She's like like working for thisdiamond company now I'm like, go
away. She does not.
Know how to go away she just double s down when she.
Just double s down. But like, do these people
seriously need to be making moremoney?
Like come on you guys. Like do something radical, do
(38:59):
something important, do something meaningful.
Stop selling us shit that we don't need.
Right, exactly. Do we need like another version
of Taylor albums, Taylor Swift CD like a nerve vinyl cover, a
different cover of it? Like, no I don't.
But it's just funny that with Mariah, like, you know, again,
her like, you know, new or relatively new tradition of the
(39:20):
November 1st video, like the last few years, like they
weren't monetized. Like she just made them, you
know? But now it's like, oh, we can't
even do this thing just for fun.We have to get money for it, you
know? It's like it.
Yeah. Like you said, it's just really,
really tone deaf. Even Taylor Swift.
I think that like that's a big like it's interesting to see.
(39:43):
It's not necessarily a backlash,but people losing interest
because her last album, which I didn't listen to, but I read
reviews and I read some of the lyrics.
Like it also speaks to that justtotal tone deafness, you know,
like running around with like what, a $5,000,000 engagement
ring or however much it costs. Like as if we're all supposed to
be happy for you. Like like when you said so many
(40:03):
of us are struggling just to stay alive.
Like read the room. Bitch, do you think that people
have had enough of supporting big music artists these days?
Do you think this is the end of the celebrity standing coach or
the beginning of the end of standing culture?
That's such a great question andI'm genuinely something I talked
(40:24):
to my friends a lot about. I think it's sort of twofold.
I do think that the age of like the big celebrity, like
monoculture is over because everything is niche now.
You know, everyone's on their phones.
They're only seeing things that the algorithm is presenting them
with. If you do not have curiosity
(40:46):
about what exists outside of your own interests and seek that
out, you will never be shown it,You know?
So whereas like what I was a kidin the 90s and like, you know,
when I wanted to hear a song, I had to listen to the radio for
like an hour just to hear the one song that I wanted to hear.
And in that time, I would learn about all the other songs that
(41:08):
were out. And so like, I would actually
know the songs that I hate as much as I knew the songs that I
love, which I think is a really good thing.
I think it's a bad thing when you're just in an echo chamber
24/7. But I just think that now
everything is so fractured and divided that that big celebrity
(41:28):
culture is over. And I do think a lot of people
are really turned off by the sort of tone deafness of these
big celebrities. Like, I think people think it's
bullshit. I think they see all of these
big celebrities as like Marie Antoinette kind of figures.
I really do think so. But then at the same time, with
(41:49):
the death of that sort of mainstream celebrity
monoculture, there's now the birth of like influencer culture
and you have people presenting themselves as like life coaches
or gurus, and they have so much influence over people's lives
when they don't know shit about anything.
(42:10):
And that's extremely dangerous. And through that, obviously
we've seen like the, the propagation of false news and
how dangerous that is. So I, it's, it's bad all around.
You know, I don't think the lossof celebrity culture is a bad
thing. I actually think it's a good
thing. I do not think that we should be
idolizing these people. But I also think the rise of the
(42:34):
influencer culture is a very badthing as well.
Yeah. And what ways do you have you
challenge your energy from thesebig artists?
Like, but for me, I'm looking toinvest more in the indie artists
or like just, or spend more timetouching grass these days and.
Like. Honestly, like, honestly, like
after I have, I have spent a lotof money the last three years on
(42:56):
concerts and I mean every. Anybody.
I've spent so much money on concerts and like CDs and
records in my life, Merch. I don't even want to know how
much money I've spent over the last 20 years.
I don't even want. To.
I don't even want to know, but I, but I really do love pop
(43:16):
culture, you know, and my taste in music, I hate to admit it
does skew very mainstream. Like I like mainstream pop, you
know, but I, but to be honest, like I kind of listened to the
same artist that I've been listening to since I was 12.
You know, like every now and then there is a new artist that
comes around that I really like.Like, for example, I really love
(43:36):
Addison Ray's album, and I neverthought that I would ever love
like an album from someone like her.
And like, you know, I've heard that she has like an IDF soldier
boyfriend and that really turns me off.
And like, you know, there was even a part of me because I love
the album so much that like, I wanted to like, go get the
vinyl, but I'm like, why? There's no need to support this
(43:58):
bitch financially. I'm like, I can just listen to
the songs and that's fine. So I think that for me, it's
more like it's not necessarily the music that I'm listening to
is changing. It's more just that like my
attitude towards it is changing.And I don't want to give these
bitches my money anymore. You know, even with Madonna,
like on the celebration tour, I almost didn't go.
(44:20):
And, you know, back in the day, like, I would try to get like
the best ticket possible. But now when I buy tickets to
concerts, I'm actually looking for the cheapest ticket
possible. I don't care where I'm sitting,
you know, I just want to be there, but I don't want to spend
a lot of money. So like, yeah, I'm definitely
like cutting back on that. And most of the music that I
buy, like I do, I do still love physical media.
(44:43):
Like I love the artwork on albums.
So like I have a big vinyl collection and CD collection and
I still love those things. But I would say that like 90% of
the stuff that I buy is from like used record stores.
So like it's more, it's more going to my local businesses.
It's not that money is not goingto them.
(45:03):
You know they don't need my money anymore.
Yeah. And I think, and I also not
Beyoncé does not need my money anymore because.
Absolutely not. The merch I have like lost so
much on the merch because that. Is it's so expensive?
Yeah. $100 for a program, mind you, for.
Brand. Yeah, I know.
It's crazy. It makes no sense.
And also like that reminds me oflike, cuz, you know, sometimes
(45:25):
I'll make little Instagram videos that talk about some of
the things that you and I are talking about right now.
And fans can get really defensive about their favorite
artists. Like they cannot handle
criticism of their favorite artists, which is really
embarrassing for them. Yes, but like in the in my mind,
I'm always like, these billionaires do not need your
(45:45):
help. Like they are not struggling.
And even if some random bitch inMontreal hates Taylor Swift,
she's not hurting for it. Trust me.
No, and they don't need. You to defend, they don't know
you and no billionaire needs your defense.
Like please get real. Yeah.
You know, when I was a kid and someone would say something bad
about Madonna, I would kind of take it personally because I was
(46:08):
a kid and I wrapped up so much of my identity in my fandom.
But like, I was a kid, you know?Like I, I'm thankful that like,
I've been able to make a life for myself that is not
exclusively about being someone's fan.
Yeah, I think for next year I'm kind of like thinking there's
(46:29):
not really many concerts I want to go to anymore.
Like, I feel like I've already done my damage and it's like,
OK, you know, I need to, like, start focusing and shifting
other things. You know what I feel is
important. I think the only concert I would
really want to go to, rumor has it.
I hope it stays. I hope it's true.
It would be Sade. I would literally.
Well, that would be really worthseeing.
(46:50):
I would go to that too because Ithink that if you get a chance
to see the legends, you have to go.
Yes. Like, I had a chance, like
George Michael came to Montreal in 2006 on his, like, Greatest
Hits tour, but I didn't know that would be his last tour, you
know? And I was more of a casual fan,
so I didn't go. But like, I think that even if
(47:12):
you're not the biggest fan when it comes to the legends, you
have to go. Yeah, I agree, because that's
what I've been doing a lot of. Like I'm seeing Paul McCartney
at them this month. I know he's gonna be in his 80s.
I saw Paul Simon earlier this year and he's 80.
That's. Amazing.
And yeah, you have. You have to see them.
Yeah, it's, it's kind of wild, but for me it's kind of like
(47:34):
it's, it's my old childhood soundtrack that I'm trying to
like, understand, like this is the last time I'll probably ever
see them. And yeah, this is their way of
sun setting. From this, honestly, concerts
are truly my biggest joy. Like I love going to a concert,
especially of an artist who means something to me.
(47:56):
It's just really such a shame that it's become so unbelievably
expensive. Like it?
Has been. It is truly.
I don't think it's justifiable to be honest.
Like at a certain point it's like, you know, dial back on
some of the production value andbecause we just want to see you,
you know, like we just want to see the artist.
(48:18):
So like, if it means putting together a more simple stage,
then just do that, you know? And Mariah Carey just do meet
and greet instead of touring because I don't.
Think she oh, it's sad. It's.
Kind of hard to watch her just. It's hard to watch because I'm
also like, why is she doing thisto herself?
Like she has enough money that she does not need to be
performing if she's not well enough to be performing.
(48:40):
Yeah, and I'm like. Just like to me, that's the
whole, to me, that would be like, the best part of being
rich is that like you don't haveto work as much.
Right, right. So I don't know what that's
trying to what she's. Trying to I really don't know
unless. Someone is like putting a gun to
her head. It's like you gotta make money
for us. Too.
I'm sure there's part of that. Yes, I do think that's part of
(49:02):
it. And sometimes I also believe
that these celebrities are not as rich in reality as they are
on paper. So I think there's some of that
going on as well. Yeah, and I think like I'm
hearing like Shirley Manson fromGarbage said that she's gonna
stop touring in the US. I love her so much.
Yeah. And, you know, I love her too.
(49:22):
I think she's been very outspoken, yes.
Has also said, well, you know, guys like everything touring is
so expensive. Like, you know, there's like
indie artists, like they're barely like, yeah, barely
affords thing at motels, you know?
Yeah, no, it's hard. Laundry.
And it's like, this is not the life.
I mean streaming. Unfortunately, Spotify is being
the evil empire that it is, as well as awful, awful.
(49:44):
Yeah, like literally just nickeland diming artists and
songwriters. I know.
Yeah, I know it's, it's all verybleak, honestly, but I would,
you know, I really do profoundlybelieve that the arts is our
humanity. And to live in an artless
(50:05):
society or culture would be death.
And it's really tragic that the arts are not protected and
valued in the way that it they should be because we are nothing
without the arts. And I would say especially the
live performing arts, which bring us together face to face.
(50:27):
To have a human collective experience like it is so
important. I wholeheartedly agree.
And as we wrap up, what are the things that you're that you're
doing for yourself to wrap up this year as you head into 20,
as you head into 2026? Or as we head into 2020.
Yeah. I mean, oh God, that's such a
(50:49):
good question. I do feel rundown and burned
out. So I would like to ideally take
the month of December and even January, like, as relaxed as
possible. Like, I'm a freelance artist,
you know, So like, it's always scary.
It's like the beginning of everyyear.
I'm always like, how am I gonna survive this year?
(51:11):
Literally every year for me starts with a kind of
existential crisis. But somehow things always do
work out, knock on wood. And I think that I need to give
myself a little time to regenerate and recharge, you
know, because I do feel like this year, like for many of us,
has just taken a lot out of me. And I really just want to spend
(51:36):
time and hang out with my friends.
That's literally the number one thing that I want and need right
now. Yeah.
And I just want to say thank youso much, Trina, for being on my
show. And it's such a pleasure talking
and kicking about like today's pop culture because it's been on
(51:56):
my mind for the last few months.I think ever since like my end
of summer concerts and having todeal with what I think when
Beyoncé was with with the questioners, that was like, OK.
Oh my God, I know. I was like, OK, well this
confirms it. You know, she really doesn't
have a spine. No, not at all.
(52:16):
That was extreme. I mean, I'm not the biggest
Beyoncé fan, so it's not like itwas a big blow to me personally.
But like, I, yeah, that you can't Unsee that, you know?
And like, if Madonna had been inthat position, I don't know if I
could really listen to her anymore.
Like, it'd be hard, you know, It'd be, I don't know, it's so
fucking complicated to like, separate the art from the
(52:38):
artist. Right, right.
Absolutely. Especially music, because music
is so personal. Absolutely.
It's, it's a life. It's a soundtrack for us.
Yeah. And that's.
And that's what's so important. And yeah, I can't wait to see
what you do elsewhere. And I also hope that you still
have time to finish the J Shettyinterview with Madonna.
I'm just joking. Oh, I am not watching the
(52:58):
second-half of that when? When she's joined by the
Kabbalah director or whatever his name is.
I am not. Life is too short, OK?
All right.
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