October 29, 2025 • 50 mins
From Victim to Victor: How Taking Accountability Transforms Your Life
Are you feeling stuck in your life despite trying hard to improve? Discover how shifting from a victim mentality to true accountability can change everything. In this episode, Todd interviews Robert J. Hunt, co-author of "Nobody Cares Until You Do," about the power of personal responsibility and overcoming blame and excuses.
Learn the stages of accountability and how to climb what Hunt calls the "Accountability Mountain." Whether you're struggling with finances, relationships, career challenges, or personal growth, this conversation reveals practical strategies for taking ownership of your life and moving from feeling helpless to becoming empowered. Featuring real-life stories of transformation, including how Robert and his wife eliminated $90,000 in debt by embracing accountability instead of waiting for external solutions.
Perfect for midlife listeners, business owners, entrepreneurs, and anyone ready to stop making excuses and start living the life they really want.
Where to Connect With Robert:
https://refdallas.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/roberthuntceo/
https://www.youtube.com/@nobodycaresbook6826
https://www.instagram.com/nobodycaresbook/
_____________________________________
Resources from This Episode:
Nobody Cares (Until You Do), by Salem Thyne and Robert Hunt https://amzn.to/4oKvERq
Satisfaction Assessment: https://nobodycaresbook.com/resources/
As an Amazon Partner, our podcast earns from qualified purchases at no extra cost to you.
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Web: https://clutteredpath.com/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/clutteredpath
Questions/Comments: feedback@clutteredpath.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Todd (00:00):
This is the cluttered path, a compass for midlife.
If you're like most people, youthink there are reasons why you
are the way you are, why youcan't get what you want, no
matter how hard you try.
But here's the thing (00:19):
most of those explanations are really
just BS, and they keep you avictim and hold you back from
being the best version ofyourself.
Be a victor, not a victim.
Now, this is a description Iread from a book entitled Nobody
Cares Until You Do by Robert J.
Hunt and Salem Thine.
Now I just read this book and Ifound it to be very beneficial.
(00:42):
And today I've got theprivilege of talking to the
co-author of the book.
Robert, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
So can we start off by justgiving us a brief bio, a
background on yourself?
Robert (00:54):
I've been married to the most beautiful woman uh in the
world, Kathy, and I have beenmarried 27 years.
We got two adult children.
Lauren is married to Dylan,they live in Austin, and James
is still at home with us,finishing up his last year at UT
Dallas.
We've been living in the NorthTexas area since 2010.
I grew up in SouthernCalifornia, but we got out of
(01:16):
there in 2010, thankfully, andwe love being in Texas.
So what I do for a day job is Irun CEO peer groups, which
means I spend all my timebringing together business
owners to help them have anenvironment for accountability,
which is what a peer group does.
No one tells each other what todo.
We just get together and say,here's my struggles, here's my
issues, here's what I want todo.
(01:37):
And then we learn from eachother and we create the
opportunity for realaccountability, which is
something that people tend tolose the bigger the company gets
and the more employees theyhave and things they get away
with, but you're really notgetting away with anything.
You're stuck with it at the endand you're not happy with the
results.
So that's what I do for aliving, and that's my fun.
Todd (01:56):
Excellent.
Yeah, and and from the book,uh, just for the listeners, it's
not just for business owners,uh, the accountability stuff.
It it's something that you canput into practice for yourself.
So yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So that's one thing I noticed.
You've got the CEO peer group,but then you also, and the book
is for anyone.
If you have a business or justregular folks, well,
(02:16):
accountability's for everyone,right?
Excellent.
Yes.
So I like to start with theearly years.
So can you tell us?
You said you were born inCalifornia, but uh, can you tell
us a little bit more aboutthat?
Where were you born and whatwas family life growing up?
Robert (02:29):
I was in Southern California.
I had a uh very angry fatherwho is pretty messed up.
And so I grew up in fear ofhim.
And I watched him beat my momand beat us kids uh throughout
my junior high years and myfreshman year.
My father, my mom finally gotrid of them and asked them to
get lost, and they got divorced.
And so that was a that was abreak that uh that we really all
(02:52):
wanted and needed.
And you know, the downside ofthat is I didn't have a dad who
was involved in my life in agood way.
I mean, I had a dad, but youknow, I didn't ever do anything
with him and just tried not topiss him off.
That was the goal.
Don't piss him off.
And so it was kind of a a holein my life.
And I had some great youthleaders who stood up and and
invested in my life and caredfor me uh that I've been very
(03:14):
blessed to have in my life.
Uh, but that was really thefoundation of uh my youth was
just some pretty dysfunctionalfamily times.
Todd (03:22):
Yeah.
Sounds like uh you're a man offaith.
Can you talk about how thatcame about?
Sounds like when you were achild.
Robert (03:29):
Yeah, you know, I gave my heart to Jesus when I was a
little kid, just in Sundayschool reading a little book.
You don't want to go to hell,right?
No, I don't want to go to hell.
That makes sense to me.
Um, but it wasn't until I was31 when I went to a Promise
Keepers Conference in AnaheimStadium and I surrendered my
heart to Jesus for the firsttime.
And it was pretty awesome.
I I had played church all mylife, and uh, you know, pretty
(03:51):
very different lifestyles atwork versus at in church, taking
my clients to nudie bars andthen leading a Sunday school
class on the weekends.
And uh, it was just a brokenversion of what God has redeemed
us for.
So at that moment at thePromise Keepers Conference, I
finally surrendered my will tothe Lord.
And that was the start ofreally understanding what it was
like to walk with Jesus, togive, to be 100% in and to see
(04:14):
the blessings of that.
I hate using the church words,the great reward of being that.
You know, I've learned the hardway, but obedience brings
blessings.
And so if I'm doing what God'scalled me to, he can give me the
things he wants to give me.
But when I'm rebelling andignoring him, he's like, Well,
you're not ready for it, and soI don't get the things that he
wants to give me.
(04:35):
So I I have found my life ismuch richer when I surrendered
to him and enjoy therelationship that he came and
died for me for.
Todd (04:43):
Excellent.
Good to hear.
Well, now I can call youbrother as well.
So yeah.
Now your mom was a hugepositive influence in this area
of accountability.
Can you talk about that?
Robert (04:55):
Yeah, my mom modeled accountability.
You know, my mom didn'tgraduate college, barely
graduated high school, and theyran off to get married together.
And she had four kids when shefound out that that vasectomy my
dad told her he got was notactually a vasectomy.
And there's a fifth kid coming.
And she had to think, you know,what do I do with this baby
(05:17):
that's on the way?
Excuse me.
And uh, mom was accountable toGod for the human life that he
put inside of her.
And um she decided not to abortme and let me live.
Although having an angryhusband who beats her and the
kids all the time would make youthink maybe we don't want to
add another one to the puzzlehere.
But I'm thankful that she letme live.
(05:38):
And I watched her walk inobedience to God despite poverty
and fear and hard times.
My mom worked two jobs as aslong as I could remember.
She worked all day.
She was a narc at my highschool.
She catch people smoking in thebathroom and bust them.
And uh then she'd go home atnight and retouch photos and do
odd jobs, sell Mary Kay, sew.
(05:59):
I mean, throughout her life,she took in people's laundry.
I mean, it was just whatever ittook to take care of the
family.
And my mom owned it.
And that's the definition ofaccountability is you own it.
And my mom could have blamedeverybody, could have blamed
God, could have blamed herhusband, could have blamed the
parents, could I mean anything.
Uh, certainly she could blameus kids.
(06:20):
We were a nightmare uh to takecare of.
But um, she decided that shewas gonna own it and she was
gonna be responsible for thekids that she had, but she's
gonna even more haveaccountability for what God has
called her to do with thejourney she was on.
Todd (06:34):
So your mom was uh Christian as well?
Yeah, excellent.
Yeah, great mom's she's a greatlady, man.
I yeah, sounds like a greatlady.
Robert (06:44):
Yeah, she taught me to love Jesus.
She was a very faithful, godlywoman.
She passed away last year, andI think she was 94, 93.
And uh, you know, none of usthought she'd live that long.
She didn't think she'd alwayssay, I can't believe I'm still
alive.
And she was not the pillar ofhealth, and uh, and yet God had
a plan for her.
So yeah, I all the things Iknew about God came from my mom
(07:08):
early on.
She was the foundation of myfaith.
Todd (07:12):
Wow, that's good to hear, man.
Thanks for sharing that.
Robert (07:14):
Yeah.
Todd (07:15):
So moving moving a little bit further along.
So you had a memorable firstexperience with accountability
when you started college.
Can you tell that story?
Robert (07:22):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I I did notgrow up as an accountable person
at all.
Um, I just avoided getting introuble as best I could.
I still got in trouble, but Iavoided it the getting caught at
least.
And when I graduated highschool, I didn't really take
much seriously.
Um, I got to my first uhsemester of college, and I
noticed that a lot of the guysthat were in my group were still
(07:45):
from my high school groupclasses together.
I guess they put all theknuckleheads in the same uh
classes all the time.
So I'm in remedial English.
I had to take English overbasic English just to get into
college, had to do it again.
And uh and then like the firstday of school, we're goofing off
and messing around.
The teacher goes, Hey, you guysout of my class.
And so we're like, Yeah, kickedout, you know, like that was
(08:07):
like that was cool.
That was very high schoolmentality.
So that was a Tuesday, Thursdayclass.
I came back on Thursday and Isat down.
He's like, What are you doinghere?
And I'm like, Hey, I'm in yourclass.
He's I kicked you out.
And I said, Yeah, but that wasTuesday, man.
No, no, boy, this is college.
This is college.
I don't care if you go tocollege, no one else cares if
you go to college.
And if you're gonna be in myclass, you're gonna behave.
(08:28):
And so I kicked you out, you'reout.
Goodbye.
And I walked out like, wow,he's taking this guy's making
such a big deal.
And I came back and talked tohim afterwards, and he's like,
dude, you got to grow up.
No one's gonna care if you goto college or not.
You gotta, you gotta own yourjunk.
And he was right, and it was aturning point for me as a young
man.
I was moving out on my own.
I didn't know anything aboutmoney or or running my life.
(08:51):
I just kind of existed, and youhad to grow up really fast.
And so that dude was great forme.
I needed that kick in the butt.
I went back and took his classthe next semester and got an A
in it.
And uh, I didn't get a lot ofA's in high school.
So that was my my focus hadreally changed at that point,
and I began to really own thejourney.
Todd (09:08):
Yeah, wake up call.
Yeah.
Same similar thing with myselfstarting college.
I mean, I didn't I didn't getin trouble, but it was like I
started going to college.
I thought it was gonna be likehigh school, you know, just
coast my way through my firsttest.
I got a 40 on it.
So I ended up passing thatclass, but oh my word, that
(09:28):
first that first exam wasbrutal.
So yeah.
Robert (09:31):
It's hard to make up when you have 40.
Todd (09:33):
Well, luckily, the professor, he we were all
freshmen, and he's just like,welcome to college.
And he said, Hey, I'm gonnadrop the lowest test score.
So I was like, Oh, oh thankGod.
Robert (09:43):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Todd (09:45):
Turns out he was the dean of he was the dean of the
college, and he also ran themath department.
Uh, the he had some kind ofcompetition that he took
students to every year.
And so he used that firstshakedown test to see who the
really good students were.
So he was recruited.
I guess you didn't go to thatconference.
No, I was not invited.
(10:05):
So well, good stuff, man.
Yeah.
So that's the background.
And one thing I took away fromyour book is accountability is
intensely personal.
It's something that we have totake ownership of.
And the title of your book isinteresting.
So, what do you mean by the thephrase nobody cares?
Robert (10:25):
Yeah, well, we purposely called it that because we
wanted to shock people when theywalk by a book.
Of course, uh, it's not in thebookstores yet, it's all on
online and through Amazon andsuch.
But in my mind, I envisionedsomeday it'd be on a shelf and
somebody go, What's that?
Um, but the whole point of thematter is in accountability is
is that look, nobody cares ifyou're miserable with your life.
(10:46):
It's your life.
Everyone's got their own junkto deal with.
They don't have the bandwidthto worry about your stuff.
And I learned it the hard wayin my own life through the times
where I just figured I'd get byor it'd work out.
But accountability means youown it.
You own it.
And that means that you have todo whatever it takes to get the
result that you're looking forin living the life that you
(11:09):
really want.
And when you don't, and youplay a victim in different
areas, you are you have no joyin your life.
There's no fun.
And it's no, there's no power.
You're a victim.
Instead of doing somethingabout it, you're just stuck.
And so we just wanted people towake up and realize that at the
end of the day, your youractions or lack thereof have
consequences.
(11:29):
And the truth is that reallynobody does care until you do.
And then when you care to dosomething about it, you own it,
then there's great opportunity.
And that's what we talk aboutin the book.
Todd (11:40):
I've experienced that.
When you're you're out gettingafter it and you need help,
there are people around that arewilling to pitch in with you.
It's good, share theirknowledge.
Robert (11:49):
So once you own it, once you're the one, once you've
said, okay, this I'm gonna fixthis, I want to do something
about it.
But what happens is most peoplethey blame or make excuses or
say they can't do anything aboutit, and they just hope that
someone's gonna fix it for them.
And then no one does because noone can deal with your stuff,
no one can fix it.
Even the government who givesus free money, remember COVID,
(12:09):
we're all getting money for notworking and stuff.
You know, that didn't lastforever.
And at the end of the day, westill had to figure out a plan.
And so there's too many peoplewho are still sitting around
waiting for someone else to fixtheir problems, but it's yours,
it's your problem, you got toown it.
Todd (12:24):
Yeah, I think there was a comedian, Chris Rock, I believe
it was, who said this.
He said, Look, if your car'sbroke down on the side of the
road, people generally won'tpull over to help you.
But if people see you pushingthe car, people will pull over
and help you.
So that's a good point.
Yeah, exactly.
That's true.
You see someone that needshelp, it's oh yeah, cool.
But yeah, that's good, man.
(12:45):
I appreciate the backgroundthere.
But now, can you can you giveus a brief description?
When reading the book, you gothrough the stages of
accountability, and it's areally good picture of you're
starting at the bottom of amountain and you're climbing to
the pinnacle of accountability.
Can you give us a briefdescription of each of the
stages of accountability fromyour book?
Sure.
Robert (13:05):
Yeah, we there's a halfway point uh where you get
to nobody cares at thebeginning, but at the beginning,
you're really unaware of whataccountability looks like.
And me as a young man, I justfigured you could just go to
school and you pass, like I didthrough high school.
But in college, it was adifferent situation.
So all of a sudden I becameaware, wait, this is different
than high school, huh?
And I had to figure out, okay,now I gotta do something
(13:26):
different to own that.
So the first thing you do whenyou figure out you have
accountability for something isyou blame.
And if blame doesn't work, youmake excuses.
And they're kind of the samething, the way we position them,
they go hand in hand.
And if that doesn't work, a lotof times we just say, well, I
can't do anything about it.
And you just stop because youcan't.
There's just nothing you cando.
But in reality, you're reallysaying, I won't.
I won't do anything about it.
(13:47):
And the last thing you do iswait and hope.
And that's how my beautifulwife, Kathy, and I got into
$90,000 in debt, and it waskilling us.
And the reality is that uhnobody cared that we were
swimming in debt.
It was our problem.
But we kept thinking next yearwhere the business will grow,
next year we'll figure this out,next year that it was always
next year.
And making minimum payments onyour credit card is waiting and
(14:09):
hoping until all of a sudden youlose a job and now you don't
have enough money to makeminimum payments on your credit
card.
And so we're buying time, butwe're really holding ourselves
as victims.
And it's at that point whereyou realize you look around and
go like, wait, nobody cares.
Nobody cares about my problemsunless I care enough to do
something about it.
Then at that point, when yousay, okay, I'm gonna own this,
(14:30):
now you acknowledge the realityof where you're at.
You embrace the suck, which itdid suck.
Our solution was to sell ourhouse and start over.
And we didn't want to do that.
Selling our house sucked.
We liked our house, but we hadequity and we could start over.
And so we did.
We uh we sold the house andused that to pay off our debt.
(14:50):
So you acknowledge the reality,you embrace the suck, you find
you find a solution, and thenyou make it happen.
So on the other side ofrealizing nobody cares, there is
a very methodical process.
The reality check it takes tolook in the mirror and say,
well, this is the truth of whereI'm at without any kind of lies
or confusion.
This is where I'm at.
And then it's gonna suck tochange, but I can do something
(15:12):
about this, I can own this.
And then you make a plan.
And there the plan usuallymaterial uh materializes pretty
easily because you're past allthe lies and confusion that have
held you back, and you realize,oh, I all I got to do is this.
It's not that hard.
Most of the solutions forthings really aren't that hard.
Like if you have a crappymarriage, it could take a long
(15:32):
time, but you can go getcounseling.
You could pray together, youcould go to your your pastor and
get help, you can invitefriends to walk the journey with
you, you could have candidconversations with your spouse.
All these things you can do.
There's stuff you can do.
It'll take some time, but youcan do something about it.
And that's the stages of owningit.
Todd (15:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And what I like was the factthat you and Salem, the book was
written out of the hard trialsthat you both faced in life.
I mean, you're not sitting inIvory Towers just, hey, you
should do this.
I mean, it's this is legitsomething you followed, and uh
you've put together a nicemanual for people to follow to
help them take accountability.
Robert (16:13):
So Well, and at the end of every chapter, there's at the
end of every chapter, there'ssomething to do.
There's an exercise to apply itbecause we want it to be like a
workbook.
And uh the first thing you dois take the satisfaction
assessment where you be honestwith yourself and say, Well,
here's where I'm at, and that'sbecoming aware.
And as you move through everychapter, there's something you
can do, change your but to anand when you say, Oh, there's
(16:34):
nothing I can do about it, andyou say, I'd like to do this,
but well, change that to an and.
And then that tells you whereyou need to go next.
So we put these work, theselittle worksheets inside each
chapter so it can help you ownit and move forward towards
accountability.
Excellent.
Todd (16:50):
I appreciated that.
Now, what were the excuses thatkept you from being
accountable?
What did you use?
Robert (16:57):
Um, I had always blamed that I couldn't be, I wasn't a
good salesperson.
That was one of my excuses.
Uh, the reality was I am agreat salesperson.
I just never made sales callsbecause I was uncomfortable with
the idea of selling and Ididn't want to call a CEO.
So you want to be in a peergroup?
And they'd go, no, and I'd go,oh, I'm sad.
And so I just wouldn't make anysales calls.
And so the reality was that Ihad never been sales trained.
(17:19):
So I went and got salestraining.
And through learning theprinciples of good sales
processes, I realized all I haveto do is just take the first
step.
I'm really good at everything.
It was just the first step thatI never took, which is make a
phone call.
Go talk to somebody, go dosomething about it.
And so going off and gettingsales training was the solution
for that.
That was certainly one.
(17:41):
Uh I used to also make anexcuse that, hey, everyone's got
debt.
You know, that's just that's afact reality.
You got a house, that's debt.
You got a car that's dead,that's dead.
Got credit cards, that'sAmerica.
You know, everyone's got debt.
Well, you know, that thatstarted off okay until it got to
be 30,000, then it got to be40,000, 50,000.
You know, when you get to$90,000, you go, I don't think
everyone has $90,000 in debt.
(18:01):
That did not include the houseor the cars, by the way.
That was just cash, creditcards, government debt.
So it was pretty bad.
But I I use the excuses,everyone has debt, and and all
they did was keep me trapped asa victim a little bit longer,
thinking that next year, nextyear we're gonna get it worked
out.
Todd (18:20):
Right.
So you're speaking fromexperience here.
You're not just saying, hey, beaccountable, stop making
excuses.
Robert (18:28):
Yeah, and we we share some pretty vulnerable stories
because people don't likesomeone else telling them what
to do with their life.
And a book like this could comeacross like, hey, you're not
accountable, get your acttogether and get out there.
And and it it would make youfeel like I'm ignorant to the
realities of the world you livein.
And I'm not.
I I told you earlier my ownstories of being victimized as a
(18:49):
child, but it doesn't make me avictim.
It just means I had a reallybad person in my life who was
really horrible to me.
Move on.
And I'm not saying that in acavalier way, it was not easy to
move on.
Things happened to us.
I got divorced after 10 yearsof marriage, came home and the
house was empty, and my wife andmy two-year-old daughter were
gone.
And that's a choice that shemade.
(19:10):
And so I had to live with that.
So, you know, you you have tolook at these things and go,
well, did I get screwed over byGod?
Are you gonna be angry at Godbecause of the journey you've
gone through?
God loves me.
God died for me, He has a planfor my life.
But other people's bad choicesdon't mean that God doesn't love
me anymore.
So if you want to blame and beangry and just sit there, you
can.
But that's being a victim.
(19:31):
And so I just had to make thehard choices because I wanted
something better.
And it's a whole lot better togo through all the things you
got to do to change than it isto stay a victim.
Todd (19:41):
Yep.
Yep.
Now you talk about radicaltransparency in the book.
How did you put that intopractice with your financial
recovery?
Robert (19:50):
Yeah, you know, we uh we obviously weren't good at
money, and so neither one of uscould help each other create a
world of accountability.
So we invited a financialexpert.
He's a wealth manager guy, uh,and he teaches financial
stewardship.
And we paid him $250 a month tocome and look at our spending
(20:10):
habits and go, whoa, is this howyou spend money?
So it was a littleembarrassing.
It was a lot embarrassing,actually.
Um, but we needed to create thekind of transparency that would
help us change.
Because obviously, we did somethings that were probably going
to come back and be doing itagain if we didn't make some
changes.
Getting out of debt is not theend of the game.
You got to not go back intodebt again.
(20:31):
And so if you really wantaccountability, if you really
want change in your life, youmust be vulnerable with other
people.
Radical transparency letspeople know I got an issue.
I got a problem.
That's why AlcoholicsAnonymous, they make you stand
up in front of the room and say,hey, I'm an alcoholic, because
they want you to practice owningit.
And so we don't have those kindof places anymore.
(20:53):
You know, it used to be thechurch was a place that people
went to to be honest about theirchallenges.
Now we show up late, themusic's already playing, we we
listen for a while and then weleave before the the first
couple cars get out of theparking lot.
And we're not actuallyconnecting to people.
No one knows.
You could have a reallyhorrible marriage, nobody would
know.
You can be stuck in yourfinancial woes, nobody would
know.
And so we've just created thisfake world where people just
(21:16):
look good on Facebook andTwitter and stuff, and and uh
nobody's being real.
But if you want real change,you got to be transparent.
Todd (21:24):
Yeah, and connecting with others, getting someone that's
an expert that can just look inand go, hey, this is what I'm
seeing.
That's that's so valuable, man.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsI'm I'm thankful for with the
military.
Um, I was I was in the Marines,did six years active duty, and
uh we did fitness reports.
Oh no, I got way more out thanI put in.
(21:44):
So I'm thankful to America forbeing able to do that.
So I was a pre-9-11 guy, so Iwas in during peacetime.
Robert (21:51):
So but nonetheless, I appreciate it.
Todd (21:54):
Yeah, uh I appreciate that, man.
Thank you.
Um, but one of the good thingsthat I took away from that was
that they looked into what youwere doing, your your superiors,
and they took notice and theythey put that in your fitness
reports and they were like, hey,here's areas where you can
improve.
And and one of the times um Ihad a captain one time tell me,
(22:15):
he was like, Yeah, you're veryemotional.
I'm like, what?
What are you talking about?
I was infantry, marines, andall this.
Yeah.
And uh I I thought emotionallike crying, yeah.
But then he was just like, no,I mean, when you're happy,
you're really happy, but whenyou're not happy, you're really
not happy.
And so that you know, I yelleda lot at people and stuff.
And that was a good way toconfront me, just to confront me
(22:39):
with that, because I had itmade me start thinking about it.
And I appreciate him doingthat.
And uh, I mean, with finances,with all of these things, you
need someone that can just comealongside and sit down and go,
you know, this is where you'remessing up.
I don't think you don't reallyhave to do that, but just say,
hey, this is what I suggest, andyou know, here's here's what
I'm noticing.
Robert (23:00):
So we don't have a world anymore where people can just
talk with each other.
You're always on show.
Everything's um you take acertain picture of it and you
write a little note and you go,This is how great my life is,
and and nobody really knowswhat's really going on in
people's world anymore.
It's just what you promote, andso it's hard to be able to get
(23:20):
the kind of support you need tobe the best version of yourself.
And we've we've created thisfake world these days, and I
think that's where realfriendships are so valuable
because they can ask realquestions and they can really
care for you.
Todd (23:32):
Yeah, we need that.
It's uh that's so true.
And I've said it before inprevious episodes, but uh the
times that we spent deployedoverseas, those were that's
where I really learned that weneed that human connection with
one another.
Because if you didn't connectwith your platoon mates and
whatnot, you didn't do wellmentally.
And I saw guys have mentalbreakdowns and stuff.
(23:54):
So uh that connection, we needit.
So get off, get off Facebook.
I mean, you know, obviouslyenjoy the good parts of social
media, but get away from thosethings is my suggestion to folks
and get out and really interactwith real people.
So yeah, I agreed.
But um now accountability isvery practical in your book.
(24:15):
You don't just say, hey, here'swhat we recommend.
Like you said, you've got thoseexercises, and you start with
you've got those personablestories, they're relatable, but
the book is not justinformational.
And this is really thedifference between education and
training.
So, education, we go getinformation and we regurgitate
it for a test.
Training is where you're like,okay, now let's put it into
(24:38):
practice.
And you've got some reallypractical exercises to help the
reader implement your ideas.
Now, can you describe thesatisfaction wheel that you use
to coach people?
Robert (24:48):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you took this satisfaction
assessment yourself.
I think that's very vulnerableon your part.
Basically, what we're doing isin at the beginning, you have to
create a level of awareness tobe able to realize whether or
not you're being accountable.
So at the beginning, you'reunaware.
And so when you take asatisfaction assessment, you
declare, I'm not satisfied withthis, this, and this.
(25:09):
And then the question is, well,why?
Why?
And it's at that moment thatyou go, well, because my wife,
well, because the government,well, because my kids, and you
know, you you start to come upwith all these excuses or these
reasons, as we call them reasonsif they're good, and yours are
excuses and mine are reasons.
But there's still the thenon-ownership version of the
(25:31):
story.
You can blame someone.
You can't you can sit aroundand say I can't do anything
about it, but it you're in avictim trap.
And so by declaring thatawareness of where you're not
satisfied, these satisfactionwheels are designed to help you
see where you're playing therole of a victim and then give
you the opportunity to gothrough the stages of of
acknowledging it and doingsomething about it and moving
(25:52):
off and and owning it.
Todd (25:54):
Yeah.
unknown (25:55):
Yeah.
Todd (25:55):
So I took that assessment from your website and it's
really cool.
And we'll be sharinginformation in the uh in the
description here.
But I took the assessment, itwas really quite easy, only took
a few minutes, and you can justdownload it really quick and
have a PDF copy of that.
And so I shared my assessmentwith what's that?
Robert (26:13):
And of course it's in the book too, but uh we wanted
to give people a digital versionin case you didn't want to
score on in the book that you'renot happy with your marriage.
You don't want to maybe havethat one on the coffee table
yet?
Maybe you want to stagger thatdiscussion.
So we gave people a digitalversion to do that, but I cut
you off, please.
Todd (26:29):
No, no, yeah, you made it real easy.
And uh so for people on video,I'll be showing a graphic with
personal satisfaction results.
Now, there's also an anotheraspect that's business
satisfaction results.
Um, I think you can apply that.
Robert (26:43):
It well, it is for business owners, but uh no, it's
for an employee too, becauselet's say you you think that our
customer service at our companyis horrible, and and part of
what you do for a living islet's say you're in the
warehouse and then we've gothorrible customer service.
So people show up angry at thewarehouse.
I mean, those things can affectyou too.
So it's usually probably morepowerful for the the senior
(27:03):
leadership of a company, butevery employee can say whether
or not they think the tech ishorrible.
Like my computer constantlycrashes, so it's hard for me to
get work done in the workplace,or that I don't make enough
money because the company'sreally struggling financially.
And there's a lot that we canknow, even if you're not the
owner.
Todd (27:21):
I like it.
Yeah, so I did it from theaspect of podcast.
And uh, so that's that's thebusiness side.
But I also did my personalsatisfaction results.
And how do you want to do this?
How do you want to go throughthese?
Robert (27:34):
Tell me you scored your fun and recreation low.
Why is your fun and recreationlow?
Todd (27:40):
I'm working too hard.
I'm I'm I'm not spending enoughtime out just doing fun things
with my wife.
So um, I'm just putting toomuch time at work.
It's um why why am I doingthat?
Because of fear.
I have a fear of losing my job,I have a fear of not doing
(28:00):
well, and I have a fear of uhnot performing well, and uh even
getting ready for a podcastepisode.
I fear not doing a good job anddisappointing someone.
But um this is me.
unknown (28:13):
Go ahead.
Robert (28:13):
Just to take the example further, to in this case, your
your excuse is that because ofyour fear, you're working more
hours.
And so in in light of that,what's the truth that we use to
combat that?
Because a lot of times we letexcuses hold us back, but the
Bible says don't fear, don't beanxious.
Todd (28:35):
That's true.
Robert (28:36):
Isn't the truth that if God wanted this thing to be a
rockin podcast, he'd have it'sprobably gonna go up from this
video, probably take you to thenext level just from this video.
But you know, you know, Godcould make it grow at the pace
he wants to have it grow.
So we we become comfortablewith using the excuse that,
well, I've got to work reallyhard to get this podcast going,
therefore I'm not spending timewith my friends.
(28:58):
The reality is you could do oneepisode that's so epic that it
goes viral and a million peoplefollow you tomorrow, if that's
what God wanted to have happen.
But in exchange for that,you're gonna say, I don't get to
have any fun because of thispodcast.
And that's an excuse thatyou're making out of fear, but
whatever the reason is.
So then just go deal with thethe truth of the what's driving
(29:20):
that.
So go back and acknowledge thereality, God's in control.
The reality is podcasts comeand go.
The reality is they'll get hotbecause they get hot.
I mean, who knows what's gonnatake something take off?
You can work and have the mosthigh efficiency.
The notes you sent me to getready for this podcast, you're a
very professional, organizedperson doing a podcast.
I've been on some podcastswhere they're in their living
(29:41):
room, it's on their laptop,their laptop's on their lap, and
they're just kind of talking tome like, oh, this is gonna be
awesome.
So you're very professional.
So it's not for the lack ofhard work, but if you're gonna
say, Lord, I want to do thispodcast and I want you to make
it grow and reach people andthen put it in his hands, leave
it alone.
Do the best you can.
I equate it to that idea of afarmer plants corn and doesn't
(30:03):
stand over the corn and watch itgrow.
He doesn't put more hoursstanding there watching the corn
grow because that doesn't makethe corn grow any faster.
He does have to water it.
He does have to get thecritters away from it.
He does have to take care ofthe bugs that get on it.
But at the end of the day,God's going to decide the
results of that corn.
And he's got to do what he canand then walk away and go do
something else, like be with thekids or milk a cow.
(30:26):
I don't know what a farmerdoes.
But you know, you at this pointhave the choice to be able to
say, I'm going to give it thiskind of effort and let the
results be what God decides, andstop giving up fun and
recreation, which helps youbecome more creative and more
powerful in these podcasts,because your head is on screwed
on right, and you have energyand joy, and you had a great
(30:46):
day, and now you're coming hereto do this out of joy versus
man, I'm tired today.
Todd (30:52):
Yeah, that's true.
And the way I'm takingaccountability is I'm working
with a counselor on thesethings, someone who knows how to
dig around and go, here's whyyou're doing that.
And just looking at mypersonality, uh, the past and
things like that, and justsaying, well, here's why you're
doing that, and here are thesteps you need to take to fix
that.
And so I'm right in the middleof that.
(31:13):
And so what you're seeing iswhere I am right now today.
And um, yeah, so I am, I am Ihave a history of pointing
outside and saying, if thisperson would do this, or if my
company were this, or if my jobwere better, then yes, then
like, but yeah, I totally agreewith the book and what you're
saying.
It's those are excuses.
(31:34):
Yeah.
So I need to takeaccountability for that.
Robert (31:37):
Most of the time we know why we're not doing something,
we're just not doing it.
Again, this comes back tovulnerability.
If I tell my buddy, hey, Idon't like the way that I seem
to talk to my wife a lot oftimes, uh, he's not gonna sit
there and babysit me and waittill I say something, go, hey,
don't talk to your wife thatway.
That would be horrible.
But what he could do is spendtime with me and we could read
the Bible together, we couldpray together, we could talk
(31:59):
about some of the emotions thatare going on in my heart so that
I can get a dump on him insteadof coming home and talking to
my wife and be angry about howmy day went.
I can go call him up and go,dude, I'm so mad at this
customer.
And he could be the guy that Iprocess it with so I don't bring
this home to my beautiful wife.
So we can make decisions to dothe things we know we should do
if we want to.
(32:20):
We we know what we're notsupposed to do.
We know what we're supposed todo in most cases, but having
someone who will walk thejourney with you doesn't hold
you accountable, but they createthe opportunity for you to hold
yourself accountable if that'swhat you really want.
Todd (32:34):
Right.
Yeah, I like I like that yousaid that.
It's like, and that's one ofthe things that we tend to do as
people is look for the otherparty to do something for us.
And like so, people find out Iwas in the military, and uh
parents oftentimes will come up,or maybe their nephew or niece
or someone, they'll say, Oh,so-and-so needs to join the
military to straighten them out.
(32:56):
And I'm like, Nope, don't don'tsend them to the military.
It'll make them worse.
Robert (33:02):
So it could.
That's right.
Todd (33:04):
Because if you're looking for something external to make
that change, then you're gonnasee some external changes with
the military, but uh after awhile it kind of wears off if
you don't have that foundation.
And uh yeah, so I'll I'll getoff the soapbox there.
What area did you want to uhdiscuss next?
Robert (33:22):
Well, one of the things that's come up that was really
not emphasized in the book asmuch as as we it's come to life
after the book was published isthe difference between
responsibility andaccountability.
And I think that we often usethe word accountable when we're
actually just being responsible.
So the IRS says that 60% ofAmericans will get to the last
(33:44):
days of their life and needsomeone else to pay their way to
survive.
And yet we have like 50 yearsto plan for our retirement.
And yet 60% of America is gonnabe wanting and someone's gonna
have to take care of them.
It's it's it just proves thatwe're not actually being
accountable.
Because all these years we'vebeen responsible.
We went to work, we got apaycheck.
(34:05):
But what do we do with thatmoney in light of the fact that
at some point you won't earn asmuch money or any money because
you can't.
So to be really accountable,it's proactive in nature.
If I eat donuts every morningand I'm getting fatter and
fatter until I all of a suddenbecome a diabetic, well, then I
can be responsible and take myinsulin shots, but I could have
stopped eating the donuts andbeen accountable to better
(34:28):
health practices so I don'tbecome diabetic.
Accountable is proactive.
Responsible is reacting.
So if you have a company with abunch of goofy employees and
you get them in line and youtell them how to behave, that's
being responsible.
But accountable would say,look, if we've got all these
people with challenges at homeand financial issues and
marriage problems, they're goingto show up at work in a bad
(34:49):
shape.
Why don't we make a planproactively to care for them?
Why don't we have a quarterlyevent where we teach our
employees life skills, like howto have a budget so that they
don't have too much debt andthey have to work a second job
at night and show up exhaustedat work and in a bad mood just
to get by?
Or why don't we have a seminaron how to have a good marriage?
It's not my business.
(35:10):
You're not asking how theirmarriage is, you're just
teaching the principles of goodmarriage.
Like you don't need to knowthat someone has no idea how to
have time management to do asession on time management.
You're teaching it ahead oftime.
So the point aboutaccountability is it's
proactive.
And I think far too often wethink we're being accountable or
we're really just being barelyresponsible.
Todd (35:31):
Yep.
That's I've done that.
That's me.
So raising my hand here.
Robert (35:36):
Everybody has.
I didn't want to throw you outin front of everybody to talk
about any topic you may not wantto talk about.
Here's another thing aboutthese wheels.
Let's say you scored yourspouse and romance, you know,
(35:59):
whatever score that's lower thansomething.
Your evaluation of your scorecould be different than mine and
still be the same problem.
You know, I might have problemswith my wife, but I've just
given up and gone, well, that'sas good as it's going to be, so
I'm just going to give it aneight.
But but I've given up on whatmy dream was really like to have
(36:19):
a spouse.
And so, because in light ofwhat you've given up for, you
score it higher.
So the numbers don'tnecessarily reflect if you got a
two and I got a seven, oh,look, I got it together.
No, I may have just given up onsome area like finances.
I would tell you in year two,three, four, five, and six, when
I was building my debt, I'd sayI'm doing fine financially.
(36:40):
Why?
Because there's some money inthe bank and I was able to pay
my bill every month.
And so your version of what isokay and how you score it is
different than someone else's.
So you don't have to worryabout someone else looking at
your will and judging you.
You should you shouldn't worryabout that.
But I would say that if there'sa if there's an area in your
life that you say, okay, I'm notreally happy with, you already
(37:01):
admitted that your uh fundwasn't as high.
You know, if you've got anotherarea of your life that you
think I don't spend enough timewith my family, okay, then then
look at the excuse, look at theblame you give it, look at the
saying what you can't.
Well, I can't slow down.
I remember when I was in debt,I got offered to go on a
vacation with my brother and hiswife.
He was going to take Kathy andI on a really nice vacation
(37:23):
trip, and I said, Man, I I can'tgo.
They were gonna pay for thewhole thing, everything.
I said, I can't go, I need towork.
I was so fearful that if I justdidn't keep cranking out the
work, I would just neversurvive.
And so I lived in this deficitmindset that I created.
And so I think we get to aplace where we're looking at
(37:43):
something in so much fear andworry and anxiety that we can't
live the life we really want.
And that's not what Christ cameto give us.
You know, he says, uh I shouldknow this verse, it's in John.
He came to give us a rich andsatisfying life, a life of
abundant life.
Todd (38:00):
Abundant life, yeah.
Robert (38:01):
Yeah, but it's rich and satisfying.
And so if you've got asatisfaction assessment and
you're not satisfied, that's notbecause of Jesus.
That's because of your choices.
That's because of the lifeyou're living.
Because he came to give us arich and satisfying life.
And if I'm not satisfied,that's on me.
I mean, I have my eternalsalvation, I have my eternity
(38:22):
set set up for me for the restof my future.
It's all covered.
But right now, today, he's alsogiving me the Spirit of God
that's there to walk with methrough whatever challenges I
face.
If I truly turn to him and lethim lead, I have peace that's
beyond understanding.
I have the ability of God toguide me in different areas.
But if I don't tap into God,that's my thing.
That's my choice that I'vemade.
(38:44):
Then we shake our fists at Godlike He's not doing enough.
And He's like, dude, I'm righthere.
Yeah, I'm right here.
You could talk to me once in awhile.
I could give you peace and helpyou figure out what to do, but
we're not doing our part.
Todd (38:57):
Right.
Yeah.
This is true.
That's uh that's me.
And by the way, for spouse andromance, I'll go ahead and tell
the listeners here.
I am uh working on me.
I I've spent a lot of time inmy uh life thinking of other
parties, and maybe if they didthis and maybe if they did that.
And I've just startedevaluating myself.
And uh, my wife has been verygracious and kind, and she's a
(39:20):
super nice lady.
And I've just been evaluatingmyself in recent years, and I've
just found a lot of areas whereI need to grow.
And so I'm working throughthat, and I've got folks holding
me accountable.
So, and one of those is my wifeherself.
So it's uh I've been I'menjoying the road and uh just
looking back on, wow, I wish I'dknown this when I was a lot
younger.
Robert (39:40):
So you said a phrase that we use a lot in our lives,
hold someone accountable.
You said your wife's holdingyou accountable, but let me
encourage you that that phrasedoesn't work.
Nobody can hold anyoneaccountable.
We can do things that we hopethey'll want to rise up and be
accountable for it.
But at the end of the day,let's say you have an employee
(40:01):
and you say, I want thesereports every Friday.
Friday comes along, they don'tdo it.
And you know, Monday you'relike, Where's that report?
I didn't get a chance to do it.
I wanted it every Friday.
I'm serious, Joe.
And now you're raising yourvoices, and now you're getting
all mad and you're threateningthem.
I want you to do this.
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, you gottahold that.
And the next week it doesn'tcome again.
They're still not doing it,they're still not being
(40:22):
accountable.
And you're not beingaccountable either because
you're not figuring out, well,what Joe, why isn't the report
getting done?
Well, I don't have thedocuments.
I can't my computer doesn'twork.
And I was told not to do thatreport by finance, so they won't
let me get in to do it.
And so you're not evenproactively going far enough to
know what's going on.
You would love that they woulddo that, but since they're not,
(40:43):
how you as a leader move them toa point of getting things done?
That's you being trulyaccountable in that moment.
So let's say you're done withit, just sick of it, fire.
You fire Joe.
Well, now you're the one beingaccountable.
Joe leaves his takes his lackof accountability somewhere else
and goes to work for anothercompany.
He's still not anymoreaccountable.
So the reality is you can'tmake anyone be accountable, but
(41:05):
you can create a place wherepeople want to be accountable,
where you want to be accountableto your wife, and you say, Hey,
here's what I'm doing.
And she's like, Okay.
And you say, I'm gonna checkwith you every Thursday, I'm
gonna give you this information,I'm gonna tell you this,
whatever.
And then you do it.
And she's not gonna have to go,Well, did you do it?
Well, that's not her job.
That's you're expecting her tobabysit you, and we're not
(41:28):
babies anymore.
Todd (41:29):
Doesn't work that way, right?
Robert (41:31):
When you truly own it, and it is yours, that's the
definition of accountability.
You're the one who sets areminder in your phone Thursdays
at two o'clock, do this.
Every week, do that.
Whatever the thing is thatyou're gonna own, you really
truly need to own it becausenobody can hold you accountable.
Todd (41:46):
Right.
And it's it's my responsibilityto ask her things, ask her
questions.
You know, what do you like?
What things, you know, justgetting feedback from her.
And then it's up to me to takethat on.
And oh, okay, well, you like itwhen I buy you flowers, just
giving an example and uh takeownership of that and do it and
listening.
Robert (42:07):
Proactive nature of that, you're asking the question
proactively rather than whenshe's mad.
Well, okay, she's mad, I'll goget her some flowers.
No, it's too late.
I'm already mad, right?
So if I'm proactive and Iunderstand there are things that
Kathy wants more than anything,she wants this is ridiculous.
She wants time with me.
I mean, that why would she wantto hang out with me?
I got nothing.
(42:27):
She just she loves me so much,she just values time with me.
Isn't that awesome to have awife who just wants to be with
me?
But I think I got to do achore.
I got to fix something.
I got to work hard to providefor the family.
You know, dudes do that a lotof times.
I'm working hard for thefamily.
The family doesn't care thatyou're working hard.
The family wants you home fordinner.
The family wants to know thatyou're at the baseball game.
(42:47):
The family wants you to comehome and not be a jerk because
you're so stressed out becauseof work that they can't even
turn the channel without youlosing your mind.
You know, these are the thingsthat your family truly cares
about.
But we make excuses for whywe're doing something that we
shouldn't be doing or not doingthe things we should be doing.
And then we throw it under theguise of, well, I'm being
responsible for my family'sfuture.
(43:08):
Well, be accountable for thelife that you are gonna live.
You created children, be a dad.
You got married, be a husband.
These are the things thatyou're supposed to do
proactively, because this is thelife that you own.
Stop trying to optimize acrappy life.
Step back and create the oneyou really want, and then
proactively do the things to getthat.
Todd (43:28):
Right.
Yeah, my wife uh pointed outone time, uh, not at me or just
in general.
She's like, Yeah, we're we tendto want to do the big things,
like I would die for my wife andstuff like that, but just be
there every day in the mundane.
It's easier to die.
Robert (43:45):
Yeah, I die, it's over.
I gotta be there and listen toyou every day.
Geez, come on, let me just die.
Todd (43:52):
Yeah, yeah, just living with my wife in an understanding
manner.
That's what I need to be doing.
And uh part of that is justlistening and not trying to
solve problems, just listeningand and uh yeah, that's part of
being a good husband.
But um, I'll just read off theareas of the personal
satisfaction results.
There, there are a few areashere.
(44:12):
It's first, it starts withhealth.
That's primo because we've gotto be healthy to be able to do
the other things, to be able towork, to be able to spend the
time out having fun with friendsand family.
That's you got to take care ofyour health.
I scored myself kind of low onthat because I need to step it
up on the nutrition side.
I get exercise and stuff, butwhen I'm at home, I like uh
(44:34):
sucking down the snacks.
So I got to change that.
Robert (44:37):
I've got a proactive nature for accountability for
your health.
If you know that you eat crappyfood at home, what is something
you can do proactively?
Todd (44:46):
Not bring that food in the house.
Robert (44:48):
You could not bring the food home.
Yeah.
That's something that Kathy andI agreed on because I said,
look, if you put chips in thecupboard, I'm gonna eat them.
There's no question about it.
Don't buy me chips.
And if I'm Jonesing and I needa bag of chips, I'll get in my
car, I'll drive to the 7-Eleven,I'll come home with a small bag
of chips, and it'll all befine.
But if you buy the kind of bagsof chips that they sell at the
(45:09):
store, I'm gonna eat the wholebag.
So we just proactively don'tbuy the things we shouldn't have
at home.
And then we just sit at homedreaming of bacon-wrapped
ho-hos.
So then go get a bacon-wrappedhoho and enjoy it, but you're
not gonna sit and mow through acase of them.
Todd (45:26):
Right.
So, yeah.
So there's health, there'sspouse and romance.
I brought that one up.
Friends and family, how are howsatisfied are you personally
with uh friends and family,those interactions, spiritual,
career, money, fun andrecreation.
And that's what uh that's whatRobert called out here, uh,
graciously, not digging into theother areas, but uh and then
(45:47):
there's just the area ofpersonal growth.
So there's some areas I'mpretty satisfied with, and then
others not so.
And so this was a good exercisefor me to just sit and analyze
my own self and go, oh, I needto work on these things.
And so I need to takeaccountability and just start
with health and relationshipsand start working on those.
Robert (46:08):
They tend to feed each other.
You know, there's two thingsabout that wheel.
You wouldn't want to drive acar with a wheel like that,
right?
It would be better to have atiny wheel that was round than a
big wheel that's all chopped uplike that because the ride
would be horrible.
So, in in looking at that,saying, Well, look, I'm gonna
take down the notch on mypersonal growth.
I might reduce some of thatmoney and pay someone to do some
(46:31):
work.
I might, I might job out someof these things that I do.
I might, you know, take thecareer and go, it's going pretty
good.
Let's just take a chill.
Um, and maybe the spiritualthing is so good because of the
relationship we have withChrist, but maybe it's because
you're involved in some studiesor some things that even a good
thing in the wrong time could benot good.
I've got a men's study onTuesday, I've got this study
(46:52):
here, I've got the parking lot Iwork on Wednesdays, and then
you know, all these things youmight be doing that are
spiritual could be actuallyeating up the bandwidth that you
need to invest in therelationships that are going to
make you more balanced.
But this is your choice to lookat every aspect of your life
and say, I want to raise up thefun and recreation, I want to
raise up my health, and I wantto raise up my friends and
(47:13):
family so that the other wheelsmaybe come down a little bit.
Um, it's not like, okay, soI'll make my spouse and romance
worse.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that by taking a uha chill on the amount of money
that you pocket every month andinvest it in a service that does
something for you, you freeyourself up to have more time
for fun and recreation.
(47:33):
And all you're trying to do isbalance out the wheel so that
you have all these areas gettingthe kind of life that you want
them to have, but it does meanto it does indicate that you
need to make some changes.
Todd (47:46):
Yep.
Man, this has been uh edifying.
I appreciate it, Robert.
So it's a good place to wrap itup here.
So, how do how do peopleconnect with you?
Where do they find you?
Robert (47:56):
We've got a website for our book, nobodycaresbook.com.
The book is available onAmazon.
We just released an audio bookwhere Salem and I read the book,
which is that's a daunting taskrecording a book, but it is
available on Audible, and youcan buy it on Amazon too, but we
prefer you buy it from us atnobodycaresbook.com.
And then, of course, if ifthere's something I can do to
(48:18):
help a business owner who'sstruggling to get their
accountability and theirculture, their company, I'd love
to come out and take their teamthrough a workshop on the
principles of accountability,like I've done with my clients
over these years, teach theseprinciples and help them be
aware of it.
Then go to REF Ref,refdallas.com.
And that's where you'll findout about the work I do working
(48:39):
with business owners and CEOs.
And I take workshops all acrossthe country.
I was in Des Moines, Iowa lastweek, and the week before that,
it was uh South Bend, Indiana.
So I I go wherever people wantto bring me in to do the
workshops on accountability.
Excellent.
Todd (48:54):
I like that.
And we'll put links in thedescription.
I'll also put an affiliate linkfor the book on Amazon.
If you want to support thechannel, we would appreciate
that.
And uh yeah, just my takeawayshere.
Accountability, you've given ussome practical steps here, and
this is a very personal journey,but it's rewarding if we take
(49:16):
that journey.
So you got to choose to dothat, right?
So pick up a copy of Robert'sbook.
The links in the descriptionhere.
Also, if you need coaching,business owners, reach out
through his website there.
We'll put links there.
But uh really appreciate yourtime, Robert, and uh looking
forward to getting this outthere and for our listeners.
So thanks so much, man.
(49:37):
Thank you.
Now, thanks for listening.
And if you enjoyed thisepisode, please consider leaving
a review and share it with yourfriends.
We'll see you next time.
This is the cluttered path, a compass for midlife.
If you're like most people, youthink there are reasons why you
are the way you are, why youcan't get what you want, no
matter how hard you try.
But here's the thing (00:19):
most of those explanations are really
just BS, and they keep you avictim and hold you back from
being the best version ofyourself.
Be a victor, not a victim.
Now, this is a description Iread from a book entitled Nobody
Cares Until You Do by Robert J.
Hunt and Salem Thine.
Now I just read this book and Ifound it to be very beneficial.
(00:42):
And today I've got theprivilege of talking to the
co-author of the book.
Robert, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much.
So can we start off by justgiving us a brief bio, a
background on yourself?
Robert (00:54):
I've been married to the most beautiful woman uh in the
world, Kathy, and I have beenmarried 27 years.
We got two adult children.
Lauren is married to Dylan,they live in Austin, and James
is still at home with us,finishing up his last year at UT
Dallas.
We've been living in the NorthTexas area since 2010.
I grew up in SouthernCalifornia, but we got out of
(01:16):
there in 2010, thankfully, andwe love being in Texas.
So what I do for a day job is Irun CEO peer groups, which
means I spend all my timebringing together business
owners to help them have anenvironment for accountability,
which is what a peer group does.
No one tells each other what todo.
We just get together and say,here's my struggles, here's my
issues, here's what I want todo.
(01:37):
And then we learn from eachother and we create the
opportunity for realaccountability, which is
something that people tend tolose the bigger the company gets
and the more employees theyhave and things they get away
with, but you're really notgetting away with anything.
You're stuck with it at the endand you're not happy with the
results.
So that's what I do for aliving, and that's my fun.
Todd (01:56):
Excellent.
Yeah, and and from the book,uh, just for the listeners, it's
not just for business owners,uh, the accountability stuff.
It it's something that you canput into practice for yourself.
So yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
So that's one thing I noticed.
You've got the CEO peer group,but then you also, and the book
is for anyone.
If you have a business or justregular folks, well,
(02:16):
accountability's for everyone,right?
Excellent.
Yes.
So I like to start with theearly years.
So can you tell us?
You said you were born inCalifornia, but uh, can you tell
us a little bit more aboutthat?
Where were you born and whatwas family life growing up?
Robert (02:29):
I was in Southern California.
I had a uh very angry fatherwho is pretty messed up.
And so I grew up in fear ofhim.
And I watched him beat my momand beat us kids uh throughout
my junior high years and myfreshman year.
My father, my mom finally gotrid of them and asked them to
get lost, and they got divorced.
And so that was a that was abreak that uh that we really all
(02:52):
wanted and needed.
And you know, the downside ofthat is I didn't have a dad who
was involved in my life in agood way.
I mean, I had a dad, but youknow, I didn't ever do anything
with him and just tried not topiss him off.
That was the goal.
Don't piss him off.
And so it was kind of a a holein my life.
And I had some great youthleaders who stood up and and
invested in my life and caredfor me uh that I've been very
(03:14):
blessed to have in my life.
Uh, but that was really thefoundation of uh my youth was
just some pretty dysfunctionalfamily times.
Todd (03:22):
Yeah.
Sounds like uh you're a man offaith.
Can you talk about how thatcame about?
Sounds like when you were achild.
Robert (03:29):
Yeah, you know, I gave my heart to Jesus when I was a
little kid, just in Sundayschool reading a little book.
You don't want to go to hell,right?
No, I don't want to go to hell.
That makes sense to me.
Um, but it wasn't until I was31 when I went to a Promise
Keepers Conference in AnaheimStadium and I surrendered my
heart to Jesus for the firsttime.
And it was pretty awesome.
I I had played church all mylife, and uh, you know, pretty
(03:51):
very different lifestyles atwork versus at in church, taking
my clients to nudie bars andthen leading a Sunday school
class on the weekends.
And uh, it was just a brokenversion of what God has redeemed
us for.
So at that moment at thePromise Keepers Conference, I
finally surrendered my will tothe Lord.
And that was the start ofreally understanding what it was
like to walk with Jesus, togive, to be 100% in and to see
(04:14):
the blessings of that.
I hate using the church words,the great reward of being that.
You know, I've learned the hardway, but obedience brings
blessings.
And so if I'm doing what God'scalled me to, he can give me the
things he wants to give me.
But when I'm rebelling andignoring him, he's like, Well,
you're not ready for it, and soI don't get the things that he
wants to give me.
(04:35):
So I I have found my life ismuch richer when I surrendered
to him and enjoy therelationship that he came and
died for me for.
Todd (04:43):
Excellent.
Good to hear.
Well, now I can call youbrother as well.
So yeah.
Now your mom was a hugepositive influence in this area
of accountability.
Can you talk about that?
Robert (04:55):
Yeah, my mom modeled accountability.
You know, my mom didn'tgraduate college, barely
graduated high school, and theyran off to get married together.
And she had four kids when shefound out that that vasectomy my
dad told her he got was notactually a vasectomy.
And there's a fifth kid coming.
And she had to think, you know,what do I do with this baby
(05:17):
that's on the way?
Excuse me.
And uh, mom was accountable toGod for the human life that he
put inside of her.
And um she decided not to abortme and let me live.
Although having an angryhusband who beats her and the
kids all the time would make youthink maybe we don't want to
add another one to the puzzlehere.
But I'm thankful that she letme live.
(05:38):
And I watched her walk inobedience to God despite poverty
and fear and hard times.
My mom worked two jobs as aslong as I could remember.
She worked all day.
She was a narc at my highschool.
She catch people smoking in thebathroom and bust them.
And uh then she'd go home atnight and retouch photos and do
odd jobs, sell Mary Kay, sew.
(05:59):
I mean, throughout her life,she took in people's laundry.
I mean, it was just whatever ittook to take care of the
family.
And my mom owned it.
And that's the definition ofaccountability is you own it.
And my mom could have blamedeverybody, could have blamed
God, could have blamed herhusband, could have blamed the
parents, could I mean anything.
Uh, certainly she could blameus kids.
(06:20):
We were a nightmare uh to takecare of.
But um, she decided that shewas gonna own it and she was
gonna be responsible for thekids that she had, but she's
gonna even more haveaccountability for what God has
called her to do with thejourney she was on.
Todd (06:34):
So your mom was uh Christian as well?
Yeah, excellent.
Yeah, great mom's she's a greatlady, man.
I yeah, sounds like a greatlady.
Robert (06:44):
Yeah, she taught me to love Jesus.
She was a very faithful, godlywoman.
She passed away last year, andI think she was 94, 93.
And uh, you know, none of usthought she'd live that long.
She didn't think she'd alwayssay, I can't believe I'm still
alive.
And she was not the pillar ofhealth, and uh, and yet God had
a plan for her.
So yeah, I all the things Iknew about God came from my mom
(07:08):
early on.
She was the foundation of myfaith.
Todd (07:12):
Wow, that's good to hear, man.
Thanks for sharing that.
Robert (07:14):
Yeah.
Todd (07:15):
So moving moving a little bit further along.
So you had a memorable firstexperience with accountability
when you started college.
Can you tell that story?
Robert (07:22):
Yeah.
Well, you know, I I did notgrow up as an accountable person
at all.
Um, I just avoided getting introuble as best I could.
I still got in trouble, but Iavoided it the getting caught at
least.
And when I graduated highschool, I didn't really take
much seriously.
Um, I got to my first uhsemester of college, and I
noticed that a lot of the guysthat were in my group were still
(07:45):
from my high school groupclasses together.
I guess they put all theknuckleheads in the same uh
classes all the time.
So I'm in remedial English.
I had to take English overbasic English just to get into
college, had to do it again.
And uh and then like the firstday of school, we're goofing off
and messing around.
The teacher goes, Hey, you guysout of my class.
And so we're like, Yeah, kickedout, you know, like that was
(08:07):
like that was cool.
That was very high schoolmentality.
So that was a Tuesday, Thursdayclass.
I came back on Thursday and Isat down.
He's like, What are you doinghere?
And I'm like, Hey, I'm in yourclass.
He's I kicked you out.
And I said, Yeah, but that wasTuesday, man.
No, no, boy, this is college.
This is college.
I don't care if you go tocollege, no one else cares if
you go to college.
And if you're gonna be in myclass, you're gonna behave.
(08:28):
And so I kicked you out, you'reout.
Goodbye.
And I walked out like, wow,he's taking this guy's making
such a big deal.
And I came back and talked tohim afterwards, and he's like,
dude, you got to grow up.
No one's gonna care if you goto college or not.
You gotta, you gotta own yourjunk.
And he was right, and it was aturning point for me as a young
man.
I was moving out on my own.
I didn't know anything aboutmoney or or running my life.
(08:51):
I just kind of existed, and youhad to grow up really fast.
And so that dude was great forme.
I needed that kick in the butt.
I went back and took his classthe next semester and got an A
in it.
And uh, I didn't get a lot ofA's in high school.
So that was my my focus hadreally changed at that point,
and I began to really own thejourney.
Todd (09:08):
Yeah, wake up call.
Yeah.
Same similar thing with myselfstarting college.
I mean, I didn't I didn't getin trouble, but it was like I
started going to college.
I thought it was gonna be likehigh school, you know, just
coast my way through my firsttest.
I got a 40 on it.
So I ended up passing thatclass, but oh my word, that
(09:28):
first that first exam wasbrutal.
So yeah.
Robert (09:31):
It's hard to make up when you have 40.
Todd (09:33):
Well, luckily, the professor, he we were all
freshmen, and he's just like,welcome to college.
And he said, Hey, I'm gonnadrop the lowest test score.
So I was like, Oh, oh thankGod.
Robert (09:43):
Thank you.
Yeah.
Todd (09:45):
Turns out he was the dean of he was the dean of the
college, and he also ran themath department.
Uh, the he had some kind ofcompetition that he took
students to every year.
And so he used that firstshakedown test to see who the
really good students were.
So he was recruited.
I guess you didn't go to thatconference.
No, I was not invited.
(10:05):
So well, good stuff, man.
Yeah.
So that's the background.
And one thing I took away fromyour book is accountability is
intensely personal.
It's something that we have totake ownership of.
And the title of your book isinteresting.
So, what do you mean by the thephrase nobody cares?
Robert (10:25):
Yeah, well, we purposely called it that because we
wanted to shock people when theywalk by a book.
Of course, uh, it's not in thebookstores yet, it's all on
online and through Amazon andsuch.
But in my mind, I envisionedsomeday it'd be on a shelf and
somebody go, What's that?
Um, but the whole point of thematter is in accountability is
is that look, nobody cares ifyou're miserable with your life.
(10:46):
It's your life.
Everyone's got their own junkto deal with.
They don't have the bandwidthto worry about your stuff.
And I learned it the hard wayin my own life through the times
where I just figured I'd get byor it'd work out.
But accountability means youown it.
You own it.
And that means that you have todo whatever it takes to get the
result that you're looking forin living the life that you
(11:09):
really want.
And when you don't, and youplay a victim in different
areas, you are you have no joyin your life.
There's no fun.
And it's no, there's no power.
You're a victim.
Instead of doing somethingabout it, you're just stuck.
And so we just wanted people towake up and realize that at the
end of the day, your youractions or lack thereof have
consequences.
(11:29):
And the truth is that reallynobody does care until you do.
And then when you care to dosomething about it, you own it,
then there's great opportunity.
And that's what we talk aboutin the book.
Todd (11:40):
I've experienced that.
When you're you're out gettingafter it and you need help,
there are people around that arewilling to pitch in with you.
It's good, share theirknowledge.
Robert (11:49):
So once you own it, once you're the one, once you've
said, okay, this I'm gonna fixthis, I want to do something
about it.
But what happens is most peoplethey blame or make excuses or
say they can't do anything aboutit, and they just hope that
someone's gonna fix it for them.
And then no one does because noone can deal with your stuff,
no one can fix it.
Even the government who givesus free money, remember COVID,
(12:09):
we're all getting money for notworking and stuff.
You know, that didn't lastforever.
And at the end of the day, westill had to figure out a plan.
And so there's too many peoplewho are still sitting around
waiting for someone else to fixtheir problems, but it's yours,
it's your problem, you got toown it.
Todd (12:24):
Yeah, I think there was a comedian, Chris Rock, I believe
it was, who said this.
He said, Look, if your car'sbroke down on the side of the
road, people generally won'tpull over to help you.
But if people see you pushingthe car, people will pull over
and help you.
So that's a good point.
Yeah, exactly.
That's true.
You see someone that needshelp, it's oh yeah, cool.
But yeah, that's good, man.
(12:45):
I appreciate the backgroundthere.
But now, can you can you giveus a brief description?
When reading the book, you gothrough the stages of
accountability, and it's areally good picture of you're
starting at the bottom of amountain and you're climbing to
the pinnacle of accountability.
Can you give us a briefdescription of each of the
stages of accountability fromyour book?
Sure.
Robert (13:05):
Yeah, we there's a halfway point uh where you get
to nobody cares at thebeginning, but at the beginning,
you're really unaware of whataccountability looks like.
And me as a young man, I justfigured you could just go to
school and you pass, like I didthrough high school.
But in college, it was adifferent situation.
So all of a sudden I becameaware, wait, this is different
than high school, huh?
And I had to figure out, okay,now I gotta do something
(13:26):
different to own that.
So the first thing you do whenyou figure out you have
accountability for something isyou blame.
And if blame doesn't work, youmake excuses.
And they're kind of the samething, the way we position them,
they go hand in hand.
And if that doesn't work, a lotof times we just say, well, I
can't do anything about it.
And you just stop because youcan't.
There's just nothing you cando.
But in reality, you're reallysaying, I won't.
I won't do anything about it.
(13:47):
And the last thing you do iswait and hope.
And that's how my beautifulwife, Kathy, and I got into
$90,000 in debt, and it waskilling us.
And the reality is that uhnobody cared that we were
swimming in debt.
It was our problem.
But we kept thinking next yearwhere the business will grow,
next year we'll figure this out,next year that it was always
next year.
And making minimum payments onyour credit card is waiting and
(14:09):
hoping until all of a sudden youlose a job and now you don't
have enough money to makeminimum payments on your credit
card.
And so we're buying time, butwe're really holding ourselves
as victims.
And it's at that point whereyou realize you look around and
go like, wait, nobody cares.
Nobody cares about my problemsunless I care enough to do
something about it.
Then at that point, when yousay, okay, I'm gonna own this,
(14:30):
now you acknowledge the realityof where you're at.
You embrace the suck, which itdid suck.
Our solution was to sell ourhouse and start over.
And we didn't want to do that.
Selling our house sucked.
We liked our house, but we hadequity and we could start over.
And so we did.
We uh we sold the house andused that to pay off our debt.
(14:50):
So you acknowledge the reality,you embrace the suck, you find
you find a solution, and thenyou make it happen.
So on the other side ofrealizing nobody cares, there is
a very methodical process.
The reality check it takes tolook in the mirror and say,
well, this is the truth of whereI'm at without any kind of lies
or confusion.
This is where I'm at.
And then it's gonna suck tochange, but I can do something
(15:12):
about this, I can own this.
And then you make a plan.
And there the plan usuallymaterial uh materializes pretty
easily because you're past allthe lies and confusion that have
held you back, and you realize,oh, I all I got to do is this.
It's not that hard.
Most of the solutions forthings really aren't that hard.
Like if you have a crappymarriage, it could take a long
(15:32):
time, but you can go getcounseling.
You could pray together, youcould go to your your pastor and
get help, you can invitefriends to walk the journey with
you, you could have candidconversations with your spouse.
All these things you can do.
There's stuff you can do.
It'll take some time, but youcan do something about it.
And that's the stages of owningit.
Todd (15:52):
Yeah, I appreciate that.
And what I like was the factthat you and Salem, the book was
written out of the hard trialsthat you both faced in life.
I mean, you're not sitting inIvory Towers just, hey, you
should do this.
I mean, it's this is legitsomething you followed, and uh
you've put together a nicemanual for people to follow to
help them take accountability.
Robert (16:13):
So Well, and at the end of every chapter, there's at the
end of every chapter, there'ssomething to do.
There's an exercise to apply itbecause we want it to be like a
workbook.
And uh the first thing you dois take the satisfaction
assessment where you be honestwith yourself and say, Well,
here's where I'm at, and that'sbecoming aware.
And as you move through everychapter, there's something you
can do, change your but to anand when you say, Oh, there's
(16:34):
nothing I can do about it, andyou say, I'd like to do this,
but well, change that to an and.
And then that tells you whereyou need to go next.
So we put these work, theselittle worksheets inside each
chapter so it can help you ownit and move forward towards
accountability.
Excellent.
Todd (16:50):
I appreciated that.
Now, what were the excuses thatkept you from being
accountable?
What did you use?
Robert (16:57):
Um, I had always blamed that I couldn't be, I wasn't a
good salesperson.
That was one of my excuses.
Uh, the reality was I am agreat salesperson.
I just never made sales callsbecause I was uncomfortable with
the idea of selling and Ididn't want to call a CEO.
So you want to be in a peergroup?
And they'd go, no, and I'd go,oh, I'm sad.
And so I just wouldn't make anysales calls.
And so the reality was that Ihad never been sales trained.
(17:19):
So I went and got salestraining.
And through learning theprinciples of good sales
processes, I realized all I haveto do is just take the first
step.
I'm really good at everything.
It was just the first step thatI never took, which is make a
phone call.
Go talk to somebody, go dosomething about it.
And so going off and gettingsales training was the solution
for that.
That was certainly one.
(17:41):
Uh I used to also make anexcuse that, hey, everyone's got
debt.
You know, that's just that's afact reality.
You got a house, that's debt.
You got a car that's dead,that's dead.
Got credit cards, that'sAmerica.
You know, everyone's got debt.
Well, you know, that thatstarted off okay until it got to
be 30,000, then it got to be40,000, 50,000.
You know, when you get to$90,000, you go, I don't think
everyone has $90,000 in debt.
(18:01):
That did not include the houseor the cars, by the way.
That was just cash, creditcards, government debt.
So it was pretty bad.
But I I use the excuses,everyone has debt, and and all
they did was keep me trapped asa victim a little bit longer,
thinking that next year, nextyear we're gonna get it worked
out.
Todd (18:20):
Right.
So you're speaking fromexperience here.
You're not just saying, hey, beaccountable, stop making
excuses.
Robert (18:28):
Yeah, and we we share some pretty vulnerable stories
because people don't likesomeone else telling them what
to do with their life.
And a book like this could comeacross like, hey, you're not
accountable, get your acttogether and get out there.
And and it it would make youfeel like I'm ignorant to the
realities of the world you livein.
And I'm not.
I I told you earlier my ownstories of being victimized as a
(18:49):
child, but it doesn't make me avictim.
It just means I had a reallybad person in my life who was
really horrible to me.
Move on.
And I'm not saying that in acavalier way, it was not easy to
move on.
Things happened to us.
I got divorced after 10 yearsof marriage, came home and the
house was empty, and my wife andmy two-year-old daughter were
gone.
And that's a choice that shemade.
(19:10):
And so I had to live with that.
So, you know, you you have tolook at these things and go,
well, did I get screwed over byGod?
Are you gonna be angry at Godbecause of the journey you've
gone through?
God loves me.
God died for me, He has a planfor my life.
But other people's bad choicesdon't mean that God doesn't love
me anymore.
So if you want to blame and beangry and just sit there, you
can.
But that's being a victim.
(19:31):
And so I just had to make thehard choices because I wanted
something better.
And it's a whole lot better togo through all the things you
got to do to change than it isto stay a victim.
Todd (19:41):
Yep.
Yep.
Now you talk about radicaltransparency in the book.
How did you put that intopractice with your financial
recovery?
Robert (19:50):
Yeah, you know, we uh we obviously weren't good at
money, and so neither one of uscould help each other create a
world of accountability.
So we invited a financialexpert.
He's a wealth manager guy, uh,and he teaches financial
stewardship.
And we paid him $250 a month tocome and look at our spending
(20:10):
habits and go, whoa, is this howyou spend money?
So it was a littleembarrassing.
It was a lot embarrassing,actually.
Um, but we needed to create thekind of transparency that would
help us change.
Because obviously, we did somethings that were probably going
to come back and be doing itagain if we didn't make some
changes.
Getting out of debt is not theend of the game.
You got to not go back intodebt again.
(20:31):
And so if you really wantaccountability, if you really
want change in your life, youmust be vulnerable with other
people.
Radical transparency letspeople know I got an issue.
I got a problem.
That's why AlcoholicsAnonymous, they make you stand
up in front of the room and say,hey, I'm an alcoholic, because
they want you to practice owningit.
And so we don't have those kindof places anymore.
(20:53):
You know, it used to be thechurch was a place that people
went to to be honest about theirchallenges.
Now we show up late, themusic's already playing, we we
listen for a while and then weleave before the the first
couple cars get out of theparking lot.
And we're not actuallyconnecting to people.
No one knows.
You could have a reallyhorrible marriage, nobody would
know.
You can be stuck in yourfinancial woes, nobody would
know.
And so we've just created thisfake world where people just
(21:16):
look good on Facebook andTwitter and stuff, and and uh
nobody's being real.
But if you want real change,you got to be transparent.
Todd (21:24):
Yeah, and connecting with others, getting someone that's
an expert that can just look inand go, hey, this is what I'm
seeing.
That's that's so valuable, man.
Yeah, that's one of the thingsI'm I'm thankful for with the
military.
Um, I was I was in the Marines,did six years active duty, and
uh we did fitness reports.
Oh no, I got way more out thanI put in.
(21:44):
So I'm thankful to America forbeing able to do that.
So I was a pre-9-11 guy, so Iwas in during peacetime.
Robert (21:51):
So but nonetheless, I appreciate it.
Todd (21:54):
Yeah, uh I appreciate that, man.
Thank you.
Um, but one of the good thingsthat I took away from that was
that they looked into what youwere doing, your your superiors,
and they took notice and theythey put that in your fitness
reports and they were like, hey,here's areas where you can
improve.
And and one of the times um Ihad a captain one time tell me,
(22:15):
he was like, Yeah, you're veryemotional.
I'm like, what?
What are you talking about?
I was infantry, marines, andall this.
Yeah.
And uh I I thought emotionallike crying, yeah.
But then he was just like, no,I mean, when you're happy,
you're really happy, but whenyou're not happy, you're really
not happy.
And so that you know, I yelleda lot at people and stuff.
And that was a good way toconfront me, just to confront me
(22:39):
with that, because I had itmade me start thinking about it.
And I appreciate him doingthat.
And uh, I mean, with finances,with all of these things, you
need someone that can just comealongside and sit down and go,
you know, this is where you'remessing up.
I don't think you don't reallyhave to do that, but just say,
hey, this is what I suggest, andyou know, here's here's what
I'm noticing.
Robert (23:00):
So we don't have a world anymore where people can just
talk with each other.
You're always on show.
Everything's um you take acertain picture of it and you
write a little note and you go,This is how great my life is,
and and nobody really knowswhat's really going on in
people's world anymore.
It's just what you promote, andso it's hard to be able to get
(23:20):
the kind of support you need tobe the best version of yourself.
And we've we've created thisfake world these days, and I
think that's where realfriendships are so valuable
because they can ask realquestions and they can really
care for you.
Todd (23:32):
Yeah, we need that.
It's uh that's so true.
And I've said it before inprevious episodes, but uh the
times that we spent deployedoverseas, those were that's
where I really learned that weneed that human connection with
one another.
Because if you didn't connectwith your platoon mates and
whatnot, you didn't do wellmentally.
And I saw guys have mentalbreakdowns and stuff.
(23:54):
So uh that connection, we needit.
So get off, get off Facebook.
I mean, you know, obviouslyenjoy the good parts of social
media, but get away from thosethings is my suggestion to folks
and get out and really interactwith real people.
So yeah, I agreed.
But um now accountability isvery practical in your book.
(24:15):
You don't just say, hey, here'swhat we recommend.
Like you said, you've got thoseexercises, and you start with
you've got those personablestories, they're relatable, but
the book is not justinformational.
And this is really thedifference between education and
training.
So, education, we go getinformation and we regurgitate
it for a test.
Training is where you're like,okay, now let's put it into
(24:38):
practice.
And you've got some reallypractical exercises to help the
reader implement your ideas.
Now, can you describe thesatisfaction wheel that you use
to coach people?
Robert (24:48):
Yeah, I'm I'm glad you took this satisfaction
assessment yourself.
I think that's very vulnerableon your part.
Basically, what we're doing isin at the beginning, you have to
create a level of awareness tobe able to realize whether or
not you're being accountable.
So at the beginning, you'reunaware.
And so when you take asatisfaction assessment, you
declare, I'm not satisfied withthis, this, and this.
(25:09):
And then the question is, well,why?
Why?
And it's at that moment thatyou go, well, because my wife,
well, because the government,well, because my kids, and you
know, you you start to come upwith all these excuses or these
reasons, as we call them reasonsif they're good, and yours are
excuses and mine are reasons.
But there's still the thenon-ownership version of the
(25:31):
story.
You can blame someone.
You can't you can sit aroundand say I can't do anything
about it, but it you're in avictim trap.
And so by declaring thatawareness of where you're not
satisfied, these satisfactionwheels are designed to help you
see where you're playing therole of a victim and then give
you the opportunity to gothrough the stages of of
acknowledging it and doingsomething about it and moving
(25:52):
off and and owning it.
Todd (25:54):
Yeah.
unknown (25:55):
Yeah.
Todd (25:55):
So I took that assessment from your website and it's
really cool.
And we'll be sharinginformation in the uh in the
description here.
But I took the assessment, itwas really quite easy, only took
a few minutes, and you can justdownload it really quick and
have a PDF copy of that.
And so I shared my assessmentwith what's that?
Robert (26:13):
And of course it's in the book too, but uh we wanted
to give people a digital versionin case you didn't want to
score on in the book that you'renot happy with your marriage.
You don't want to maybe havethat one on the coffee table
yet?
Maybe you want to stagger thatdiscussion.
So we gave people a digitalversion to do that, but I cut
you off, please.
Todd (26:29):
No, no, yeah, you made it real easy.
And uh so for people on video,I'll be showing a graphic with
personal satisfaction results.
Now, there's also an anotheraspect that's business
satisfaction results.
Um, I think you can apply that.
Robert (26:43):
It well, it is for business owners, but uh no, it's
for an employee too, becauselet's say you you think that our
customer service at our companyis horrible, and and part of
what you do for a living islet's say you're in the
warehouse and then we've gothorrible customer service.
So people show up angry at thewarehouse.
I mean, those things can affectyou too.
So it's usually probably morepowerful for the the senior
(27:03):
leadership of a company, butevery employee can say whether
or not they think the tech ishorrible.
Like my computer constantlycrashes, so it's hard for me to
get work done in the workplace,or that I don't make enough
money because the company'sreally struggling financially.
And there's a lot that we canknow, even if you're not the
owner.
Todd (27:21):
I like it.
Yeah, so I did it from theaspect of podcast.
And uh, so that's that's thebusiness side.
But I also did my personalsatisfaction results.
And how do you want to do this?
How do you want to go throughthese?
Robert (27:34):
Tell me you scored your fun and recreation low.
Why is your fun and recreationlow?
Todd (27:40):
I'm working too hard.
I'm I'm I'm not spending enoughtime out just doing fun things
with my wife.
So um, I'm just putting toomuch time at work.
It's um why why am I doingthat?
Because of fear.
I have a fear of losing my job,I have a fear of not doing
(28:00):
well, and I have a fear of uhnot performing well, and uh even
getting ready for a podcastepisode.
I fear not doing a good job anddisappointing someone.
But um this is me.
unknown (28:13):
Go ahead.
Robert (28:13):
Just to take the example further, to in this case, your
your excuse is that because ofyour fear, you're working more
hours.
And so in in light of that,what's the truth that we use to
combat that?
Because a lot of times we letexcuses hold us back, but the
Bible says don't fear, don't beanxious.
Todd (28:35):
That's true.
Robert (28:36):
Isn't the truth that if God wanted this thing to be a
rockin podcast, he'd have it'sprobably gonna go up from this
video, probably take you to thenext level just from this video.
But you know, you know, Godcould make it grow at the pace
he wants to have it grow.
So we we become comfortablewith using the excuse that,
well, I've got to work reallyhard to get this podcast going,
therefore I'm not spending timewith my friends.
(28:58):
The reality is you could do oneepisode that's so epic that it
goes viral and a million peoplefollow you tomorrow, if that's
what God wanted to have happen.
But in exchange for that,you're gonna say, I don't get to
have any fun because of thispodcast.
And that's an excuse thatyou're making out of fear, but
whatever the reason is.
So then just go deal with thethe truth of the what's driving
(29:20):
that.
So go back and acknowledge thereality, God's in control.
The reality is podcasts comeand go.
The reality is they'll get hotbecause they get hot.
I mean, who knows what's gonnatake something take off?
You can work and have the mosthigh efficiency.
The notes you sent me to getready for this podcast, you're a
very professional, organizedperson doing a podcast.
I've been on some podcastswhere they're in their living
(29:41):
room, it's on their laptop,their laptop's on their lap, and
they're just kind of talking tome like, oh, this is gonna be
awesome.
So you're very professional.
So it's not for the lack ofhard work, but if you're gonna
say, Lord, I want to do thispodcast and I want you to make
it grow and reach people andthen put it in his hands, leave
it alone.
Do the best you can.
I equate it to that idea of afarmer plants corn and doesn't
(30:03):
stand over the corn and watch itgrow.
He doesn't put more hoursstanding there watching the corn
grow because that doesn't makethe corn grow any faster.
He does have to water it.
He does have to get thecritters away from it.
He does have to take care ofthe bugs that get on it.
But at the end of the day,God's going to decide the
results of that corn.
And he's got to do what he canand then walk away and go do
something else, like be with thekids or milk a cow.
(30:26):
I don't know what a farmerdoes.
But you know, you at this pointhave the choice to be able to
say, I'm going to give it thiskind of effort and let the
results be what God decides, andstop giving up fun and
recreation, which helps youbecome more creative and more
powerful in these podcasts,because your head is on screwed
on right, and you have energyand joy, and you had a great
(30:46):
day, and now you're coming hereto do this out of joy versus
man, I'm tired today.
Todd (30:52):
Yeah, that's true.
And the way I'm takingaccountability is I'm working
with a counselor on thesethings, someone who knows how to
dig around and go, here's whyyou're doing that.
And just looking at mypersonality, uh, the past and
things like that, and justsaying, well, here's why you're
doing that, and here are thesteps you need to take to fix
that.
And so I'm right in the middleof that.
(31:13):
And so what you're seeing iswhere I am right now today.
And um, yeah, so I am, I am Ihave a history of pointing
outside and saying, if thisperson would do this, or if my
company were this, or if my jobwere better, then yes, then
like, but yeah, I totally agreewith the book and what you're
saying.
It's those are excuses.
(31:34):
Yeah.
So I need to takeaccountability for that.
Robert (31:37):
Most of the time we know why we're not doing something,
we're just not doing it.
Again, this comes back tovulnerability.
If I tell my buddy, hey, Idon't like the way that I seem
to talk to my wife a lot oftimes, uh, he's not gonna sit
there and babysit me and waittill I say something, go, hey,
don't talk to your wife thatway.
That would be horrible.
But what he could do is spendtime with me and we could read
the Bible together, we couldpray together, we could talk
(31:59):
about some of the emotions thatare going on in my heart so that
I can get a dump on him insteadof coming home and talking to
my wife and be angry about howmy day went.
I can go call him up and go,dude, I'm so mad at this
customer.
And he could be the guy that Iprocess it with so I don't bring
this home to my beautiful wife.
So we can make decisions to dothe things we know we should do
if we want to.
(32:20):
We we know what we're notsupposed to do.
We know what we're supposed todo in most cases, but having
someone who will walk thejourney with you doesn't hold
you accountable, but they createthe opportunity for you to hold
yourself accountable if that'swhat you really want.
Todd (32:34):
Right.
Yeah, I like I like that yousaid that.
It's like, and that's one ofthe things that we tend to do as
people is look for the otherparty to do something for us.
And like so, people find out Iwas in the military, and uh
parents oftentimes will come up,or maybe their nephew or niece
or someone, they'll say, Oh,so-and-so needs to join the
military to straighten them out.
(32:56):
And I'm like, Nope, don't don'tsend them to the military.
It'll make them worse.
Robert (33:02):
So it could.
That's right.
Todd (33:04):
Because if you're looking for something external to make
that change, then you're gonnasee some external changes with
the military, but uh after awhile it kind of wears off if
you don't have that foundation.
And uh yeah, so I'll I'll getoff the soapbox there.
What area did you want to uhdiscuss next?
Robert (33:22):
Well, one of the things that's come up that was really
not emphasized in the book asmuch as as we it's come to life
after the book was published isthe difference between
responsibility andaccountability.
And I think that we often usethe word accountable when we're
actually just being responsible.
So the IRS says that 60% ofAmericans will get to the last
(33:44):
days of their life and needsomeone else to pay their way to
survive.
And yet we have like 50 yearsto plan for our retirement.
And yet 60% of America is gonnabe wanting and someone's gonna
have to take care of them.
It's it's it just proves thatwe're not actually being
accountable.
Because all these years we'vebeen responsible.
We went to work, we got apaycheck.
(34:05):
But what do we do with thatmoney in light of the fact that
at some point you won't earn asmuch money or any money because
you can't.
So to be really accountable,it's proactive in nature.
If I eat donuts every morningand I'm getting fatter and
fatter until I all of a suddenbecome a diabetic, well, then I
can be responsible and take myinsulin shots, but I could have
stopped eating the donuts andbeen accountable to better
(34:28):
health practices so I don'tbecome diabetic.
Accountable is proactive.
Responsible is reacting.
So if you have a company with abunch of goofy employees and
you get them in line and youtell them how to behave, that's
being responsible.
But accountable would say,look, if we've got all these
people with challenges at homeand financial issues and
marriage problems, they're goingto show up at work in a bad
(34:49):
shape.
Why don't we make a planproactively to care for them?
Why don't we have a quarterlyevent where we teach our
employees life skills, like howto have a budget so that they
don't have too much debt andthey have to work a second job
at night and show up exhaustedat work and in a bad mood just
to get by?
Or why don't we have a seminaron how to have a good marriage?
It's not my business.
(35:10):
You're not asking how theirmarriage is, you're just
teaching the principles of goodmarriage.
Like you don't need to knowthat someone has no idea how to
have time management to do asession on time management.
You're teaching it ahead oftime.
So the point aboutaccountability is it's
proactive.
And I think far too often wethink we're being accountable or
we're really just being barelyresponsible.
Todd (35:31):
Yep.
That's I've done that.
That's me.
So raising my hand here.
Robert (35:36):
Everybody has.
I didn't want to throw you outin front of everybody to talk
about any topic you may not wantto talk about.
Here's another thing aboutthese wheels.
Let's say you scored yourspouse and romance, you know,
(35:59):
whatever score that's lower thansomething.
Your evaluation of your scorecould be different than mine and
still be the same problem.
You know, I might have problemswith my wife, but I've just
given up and gone, well, that'sas good as it's going to be, so
I'm just going to give it aneight.
But but I've given up on whatmy dream was really like to have
(36:19):
a spouse.
And so, because in light ofwhat you've given up for, you
score it higher.
So the numbers don'tnecessarily reflect if you got a
two and I got a seven, oh,look, I got it together.
No, I may have just given up onsome area like finances.
I would tell you in year two,three, four, five, and six, when
I was building my debt, I'd sayI'm doing fine financially.
(36:40):
Why?
Because there's some money inthe bank and I was able to pay
my bill every month.
And so your version of what isokay and how you score it is
different than someone else's.
So you don't have to worryabout someone else looking at
your will and judging you.
You should you shouldn't worryabout that.
But I would say that if there'sa if there's an area in your
life that you say, okay, I'm notreally happy with, you already
(37:01):
admitted that your uh fundwasn't as high.
You know, if you've got anotherarea of your life that you
think I don't spend enough timewith my family, okay, then then
look at the excuse, look at theblame you give it, look at the
saying what you can't.
Well, I can't slow down.
I remember when I was in debt,I got offered to go on a
vacation with my brother and hiswife.
He was going to take Kathy andI on a really nice vacation
(37:23):
trip, and I said, Man, I I can'tgo.
They were gonna pay for thewhole thing, everything.
I said, I can't go, I need towork.
I was so fearful that if I justdidn't keep cranking out the
work, I would just neversurvive.
And so I lived in this deficitmindset that I created.
And so I think we get to aplace where we're looking at
(37:43):
something in so much fear andworry and anxiety that we can't
live the life we really want.
And that's not what Christ cameto give us.
You know, he says, uh I shouldknow this verse, it's in John.
He came to give us a rich andsatisfying life, a life of
abundant life.
Todd (38:00):
Abundant life, yeah.
Robert (38:01):
Yeah, but it's rich and satisfying.
And so if you've got asatisfaction assessment and
you're not satisfied, that's notbecause of Jesus.
That's because of your choices.
That's because of the lifeyou're living.
Because he came to give us arich and satisfying life.
And if I'm not satisfied,that's on me.
I mean, I have my eternalsalvation, I have my eternity
(38:22):
set set up for me for the restof my future.
It's all covered.
But right now, today, he's alsogiving me the Spirit of God
that's there to walk with methrough whatever challenges I
face.
If I truly turn to him and lethim lead, I have peace that's
beyond understanding.
I have the ability of God toguide me in different areas.
But if I don't tap into God,that's my thing.
That's my choice that I'vemade.
(38:44):
Then we shake our fists at Godlike He's not doing enough.
And He's like, dude, I'm righthere.
Yeah, I'm right here.
You could talk to me once in awhile.
I could give you peace and helpyou figure out what to do, but
we're not doing our part.
Todd (38:57):
Right.
Yeah.
This is true.
That's uh that's me.
And by the way, for spouse andromance, I'll go ahead and tell
the listeners here.
I am uh working on me.
I I've spent a lot of time inmy uh life thinking of other
parties, and maybe if they didthis and maybe if they did that.
And I've just startedevaluating myself.
And uh, my wife has been verygracious and kind, and she's a
(39:20):
super nice lady.
And I've just been evaluatingmyself in recent years, and I've
just found a lot of areas whereI need to grow.
And so I'm working throughthat, and I've got folks holding
me accountable.
So, and one of those is my wifeherself.
So it's uh I've been I'menjoying the road and uh just
looking back on, wow, I wish I'dknown this when I was a lot
younger.
Robert (39:40):
So you said a phrase that we use a lot in our lives,
hold someone accountable.
You said your wife's holdingyou accountable, but let me
encourage you that that phrasedoesn't work.
Nobody can hold anyoneaccountable.
We can do things that we hopethey'll want to rise up and be
accountable for it.
But at the end of the day,let's say you have an employee
(40:01):
and you say, I want thesereports every Friday.
Friday comes along, they don'tdo it.
And you know, Monday you'relike, Where's that report?
I didn't get a chance to do it.
I wanted it every Friday.
I'm serious, Joe.
And now you're raising yourvoices, and now you're getting
all mad and you're threateningthem.
I want you to do this.
Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, you gottahold that.
And the next week it doesn'tcome again.
They're still not doing it,they're still not being
(40:22):
accountable.
And you're not beingaccountable either because
you're not figuring out, well,what Joe, why isn't the report
getting done?
Well, I don't have thedocuments.
I can't my computer doesn'twork.
And I was told not to do thatreport by finance, so they won't
let me get in to do it.
And so you're not evenproactively going far enough to
know what's going on.
You would love that they woulddo that, but since they're not,
(40:43):
how you as a leader move them toa point of getting things done?
That's you being trulyaccountable in that moment.
So let's say you're done withit, just sick of it, fire.
You fire Joe.
Well, now you're the one beingaccountable.
Joe leaves his takes his lackof accountability somewhere else
and goes to work for anothercompany.
He's still not anymoreaccountable.
So the reality is you can'tmake anyone be accountable, but
(41:05):
you can create a place wherepeople want to be accountable,
where you want to be accountableto your wife, and you say, Hey,
here's what I'm doing.
And she's like, Okay.
And you say, I'm gonna checkwith you every Thursday, I'm
gonna give you this information,I'm gonna tell you this,
whatever.
And then you do it.
And she's not gonna have to go,Well, did you do it?
Well, that's not her job.
That's you're expecting her tobabysit you, and we're not
(41:28):
babies anymore.
Todd (41:29):
Doesn't work that way, right?
Robert (41:31):
When you truly own it, and it is yours, that's the
definition of accountability.
You're the one who sets areminder in your phone Thursdays
at two o'clock, do this.
Every week, do that.
Whatever the thing is thatyou're gonna own, you really
truly need to own it becausenobody can hold you accountable.
Todd (41:46):
Right.
And it's it's my responsibilityto ask her things, ask her
questions.
You know, what do you like?
What things, you know, justgetting feedback from her.
And then it's up to me to takethat on.
And oh, okay, well, you like itwhen I buy you flowers, just
giving an example and uh takeownership of that and do it and
listening.
Robert (42:07):
Proactive nature of that, you're asking the question
proactively rather than whenshe's mad.
Well, okay, she's mad, I'll goget her some flowers.
No, it's too late.
I'm already mad, right?
So if I'm proactive and Iunderstand there are things that
Kathy wants more than anything,she wants this is ridiculous.
She wants time with me.
I mean, that why would she wantto hang out with me?
I got nothing.
(42:27):
She just she loves me so much,she just values time with me.
Isn't that awesome to have awife who just wants to be with
me?
But I think I got to do achore.
I got to fix something.
I got to work hard to providefor the family.
You know, dudes do that a lotof times.
I'm working hard for thefamily.
The family doesn't care thatyou're working hard.
The family wants you home fordinner.
The family wants to know thatyou're at the baseball game.
(42:47):
The family wants you to comehome and not be a jerk because
you're so stressed out becauseof work that they can't even
turn the channel without youlosing your mind.
You know, these are the thingsthat your family truly cares
about.
But we make excuses for whywe're doing something that we
shouldn't be doing or not doingthe things we should be doing.
And then we throw it under theguise of, well, I'm being
responsible for my family'sfuture.
(43:08):
Well, be accountable for thelife that you are gonna live.
You created children, be a dad.
You got married, be a husband.
These are the things thatyou're supposed to do
proactively, because this is thelife that you own.
Stop trying to optimize acrappy life.
Step back and create the oneyou really want, and then
proactively do the things to getthat.
Todd (43:28):
Right.
Yeah, my wife uh pointed outone time, uh, not at me or just
in general.
She's like, Yeah, we're we tendto want to do the big things,
like I would die for my wife andstuff like that, but just be
there every day in the mundane.
It's easier to die.
Robert (43:45):
Yeah, I die, it's over.
I gotta be there and listen toyou every day.
Geez, come on, let me just die.
Todd (43:52):
Yeah, yeah, just living with my wife in an understanding
manner.
That's what I need to be doing.
And uh part of that is justlistening and not trying to
solve problems, just listeningand and uh yeah, that's part of
being a good husband.
But um, I'll just read off theareas of the personal
satisfaction results.
There, there are a few areashere.
(44:12):
It's first, it starts withhealth.
That's primo because we've gotto be healthy to be able to do
the other things, to be able towork, to be able to spend the
time out having fun with friendsand family.
That's you got to take care ofyour health.
I scored myself kind of low onthat because I need to step it
up on the nutrition side.
I get exercise and stuff, butwhen I'm at home, I like uh
(44:34):
sucking down the snacks.
So I got to change that.
Robert (44:37):
I've got a proactive nature for accountability for
your health.
If you know that you eat crappyfood at home, what is something
you can do proactively?
Todd (44:46):
Not bring that food in the house.
Robert (44:48):
You could not bring the food home.
Yeah.
That's something that Kathy andI agreed on because I said,
look, if you put chips in thecupboard, I'm gonna eat them.
There's no question about it.
Don't buy me chips.
And if I'm Jonesing and I needa bag of chips, I'll get in my
car, I'll drive to the 7-Eleven,I'll come home with a small bag
of chips, and it'll all befine.
But if you buy the kind of bagsof chips that they sell at the
(45:09):
store, I'm gonna eat the wholebag.
So we just proactively don'tbuy the things we shouldn't have
at home.
And then we just sit at homedreaming of bacon-wrapped
ho-hos.
So then go get a bacon-wrappedhoho and enjoy it, but you're
not gonna sit and mow through acase of them.
Todd (45:26):
Right.
So, yeah.
So there's health, there'sspouse and romance.
I brought that one up.
Friends and family, how are howsatisfied are you personally
with uh friends and family,those interactions, spiritual,
career, money, fun andrecreation.
And that's what uh that's whatRobert called out here, uh,
graciously, not digging into theother areas, but uh and then
(45:47):
there's just the area ofpersonal growth.
So there's some areas I'mpretty satisfied with, and then
others not so.
And so this was a good exercisefor me to just sit and analyze
my own self and go, oh, I needto work on these things.
And so I need to takeaccountability and just start
with health and relationshipsand start working on those.
Robert (46:08):
They tend to feed each other.
You know, there's two thingsabout that wheel.
You wouldn't want to drive acar with a wheel like that,
right?
It would be better to have atiny wheel that was round than a
big wheel that's all chopped uplike that because the ride
would be horrible.
So, in in looking at that,saying, Well, look, I'm gonna
take down the notch on mypersonal growth.
I might reduce some of thatmoney and pay someone to do some
(46:31):
work.
I might, I might job out someof these things that I do.
I might, you know, take thecareer and go, it's going pretty
good.
Let's just take a chill.
Um, and maybe the spiritualthing is so good because of the
relationship we have withChrist, but maybe it's because
you're involved in some studiesor some things that even a good
thing in the wrong time could benot good.
I've got a men's study onTuesday, I've got this study
(46:52):
here, I've got the parking lot Iwork on Wednesdays, and then
you know, all these things youmight be doing that are
spiritual could be actuallyeating up the bandwidth that you
need to invest in therelationships that are going to
make you more balanced.
But this is your choice to lookat every aspect of your life
and say, I want to raise up thefun and recreation, I want to
raise up my health, and I wantto raise up my friends and
(47:13):
family so that the other wheelsmaybe come down a little bit.
Um, it's not like, okay, soI'll make my spouse and romance
worse.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that by taking a uha chill on the amount of money
that you pocket every month andinvest it in a service that does
something for you, you freeyourself up to have more time
for fun and recreation.
(47:33):
And all you're trying to do isbalance out the wheel so that
you have all these areas gettingthe kind of life that you want
them to have, but it does meanto it does indicate that you
need to make some changes.
Todd (47:46):
Yep.
Man, this has been uh edifying.
I appreciate it, Robert.
So it's a good place to wrap itup here.
So, how do how do peopleconnect with you?
Where do they find you?
Robert (47:56):
We've got a website for our book, nobodycaresbook.com.
The book is available onAmazon.
We just released an audio bookwhere Salem and I read the book,
which is that's a daunting taskrecording a book, but it is
available on Audible, and youcan buy it on Amazon too, but we
prefer you buy it from us atnobodycaresbook.com.
And then, of course, if ifthere's something I can do to
(48:18):
help a business owner who'sstruggling to get their
accountability and theirculture, their company, I'd love
to come out and take their teamthrough a workshop on the
principles of accountability,like I've done with my clients
over these years, teach theseprinciples and help them be
aware of it.
Then go to REF Ref,refdallas.com.
And that's where you'll findout about the work I do working
(48:39):
with business owners and CEOs.
And I take workshops all acrossthe country.
I was in Des Moines, Iowa lastweek, and the week before that,
it was uh South Bend, Indiana.
So I I go wherever people wantto bring me in to do the
workshops on accountability.
Excellent.
Todd (48:54):
I like that.
And we'll put links in thedescription.
I'll also put an affiliate linkfor the book on Amazon.
If you want to support thechannel, we would appreciate
that.
And uh yeah, just my takeawayshere.
Accountability, you've given ussome practical steps here, and
this is a very personal journey,but it's rewarding if we take
(49:16):
that journey.
So you got to choose to dothat, right?
So pick up a copy of Robert'sbook.
The links in the descriptionhere.
Also, if you need coaching,business owners, reach out
through his website there.
We'll put links there.
But uh really appreciate yourtime, Robert, and uh looking
forward to getting this outthere and for our listeners.
So thanks so much, man.
(49:37):
Thank you.
Now, thanks for listening.
And if you enjoyed thisepisode, please consider leaving
a review and share it with yourfriends.
We'll see you next time.
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