November 12, 2025 • 44 mins
Letting kids grow up isn’t easy. It’s beautiful, bittersweet, and takes a lot of courage. In this heartfelt episode, Dr. Jack Stoltzfus shares how parents can let go with love while staying deeply connected.
Parenting is full of moments that stretch the heart. None more so than watching your kids transition into adulthood. In this conversation with Dr. Jack Stoltzfus, we explore the common pitfalls and struggles that all parents face while raising children. Laying a solid foundation while they’re young is key to developing maturity and emotional resilience. Later on, this can allow us to experience the beautiful, bittersweet season of letting go while watching them blossom into self-sufficient adults.
During this conversation, we discover how to stay connected to your teen or young adult, support their journey toward independence, and navigate our own emotions through this transition. Whether your child is preparing for college, moving out, or simply growing up, this episode will speak straight to your heart.
Where to Find Jack:
Web: https://parentslettinggo.com/
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Jack’s Books:
The Parent’s Launch Code: Loving and Letting Go of Our Adult Children, by Jack Stoltzfus https://amzn.to/4i3o4OY
Growing Apart: Letting Go of Our Young Adults, by Jack Stoltzfus https://amzn.to/49U9rLU
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Where to Find Us:
Web: https://clutteredpath.com/
Patreon: https://patreon.com/clutteredpath
Questions/Comments: feedback@clutteredpath.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Todd (00:00):
This is the Clutter Path, a compass for midlife.
Are you ready to let go?
In a world where parentsstruggle to balance supporting
their kids while teaching themindependence, today's guest has
(00:20):
a mission to help them launchtheir kids into a
self-sufficient and responsibleadulthood.
Today we're talking to Dr.
Jack Stoltzfus, also known asAmerica's Launch Coach, about
how to transform your parentingapproach from that of a safety
net into a launch pad, helpingyour kids thrive as independent
adults.
We're going to discuss some ofthe common pitfalls that we
(00:42):
experience as parents, and thenwe're going to explore the
journey of letting go whileorchestrating a successful
launch.
Jack, welcome to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Would you mind giving ouraudience some background on your
credentials, some books you'vewritten, and also the work you
do as America's launch coach?
Jack (01:00):
Okay, sure.
My background is basically I'ma psychologist, my PhD at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Did my dissertation work, andthat that's really kind of the
origin of my interest in parentsat launching, that I did my
dissertation work on how todefine a healthy separation of
(01:22):
adolescents from parents.
And it was driven somewhat bymy estranged relationship with
my father.
Had a kind of distancerelationship, had a lot of
insecurity about it, whether hereally loved me or not.
And and, you know, I kind ofworked that through to the point
where we reconciled, and Icould hear him tell me he loved
(01:44):
me, and it was a reallyreassuring kind of experience in
my life.
But I I wanted to study, well,how does that work?
How do how do you deal withthose distance or that
separation or that sense ofinsecurity, you know, as a as a
teenager or young adult.
And then fast forward um thelast 10, 15 years, I've been a
(02:04):
parent of young adults myself.
So I thought, well, I can I canspeak to the experience of my
own parenting of young adults,as well as an understanding as a
young adult myself.
And that kind of that uh waspart of the uh undermining of my
work in launching young adults.
(02:25):
And and I didn't see a lot ofresources out there, so I I
started to uh uh develop awebsite, and I do my clinical
work is really focused onparents of young adults with the
mission, and you and you juststated it fairly clearly, uh,
and that is to help parentslaunch their young adults into
self-sufficient, responsibleadulthood while maintaining a
(02:50):
caring bond with them.
And that last part's reallyimportant, and and not all
people who work in this fieldwould define a positive launch
in that way.
But I I do because I thinkthat's that's the natural way
that we want to have thatexperience occur.
So we let go of our kids, butwe keep this caring connection
(03:12):
with them as well.
Todd (03:13):
So that's a worthy goal, and that's born out of your own
life and your desire to have agood relationship with your dad.
So I appreciate that.
So yeah, thanks for sharingthat.
Now, we'll just jump right in.
Let's talk about some of thecommon pitfalls and struggles
that we have as parents.
Now, you've done a lot ofresearch and you've coached many
parents.
Can you talk about and tell ussome of the reasons parents have
(03:35):
a failure to launch?
Jack (03:37):
Well, I think it has been a growing problem, and uh, and I
I would own it as a I'm aboomer, basically, I guess
that's the way you would labelme.
And I think it started somewhatwith our generation, because I
think our generation became moreinvested in the success and the
(03:57):
happiness of our kids than pastgenerations.
I mean, I my father, motherraised me in my age of 18.
They expected me to leave, andI was expecting to leave.
I wasn't coming back home.
And good luck, we've raised youat 18.
You're on your own now, andmake it or break it type of
(04:18):
thing.
But today's parents are moreinvested in their success and
happiness of their kids, andthat continues on when they're
16, 18, 20, 21.
And if your kid at 21 or 22 isuh struggling in some way,
parents continue to be involved.
And that's where that I thinkthe term helicopter parent has
(04:42):
often been used to describeparents who keep trying to
control or direct or fix orwhatever their their young
adults.
So I think that's probably thebiggest uh contributor to the
difficulty parents have inletting go these days.
Todd (04:59):
Yeah.
Now I've personally felt thispull in my own heart to shield
my kids from hardship.
What's the danger to our kidswhen we do too much of that?
Jack (05:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, that that overinvestment ends up creating
the problem.
So we talk about parents beinghelicopter parents,
overinvestment.
The overinvestment ends upcreating a generation of
entitled young adults, teens andyoung adults.
I have a funny story when I Imy daughter went off to uh
(05:31):
school about five miles away,Bethel College, and about two
months in, and we're happy tosee her go.
I mean, she was there was alittle bit of a contentious
situation.
It's time to be on your own,time to be off to college.
She called me about two monthsinto the into being at college,
and she said, Dad, she said, youknow, I didn't get back to the
(05:55):
dining room tonight uh and itclosed.
Would you would you bring asandwich over to me?
You know, it took me a minuteto get off the floor from
laughing at this.
What planet is she coming from?
And she so she says, Well, Iguess you're not going to bring
a sandwich.
No, not in this lifetime, and Icould do that.
(06:16):
And, you know, I thought, Iwouldn't even, I would never
think of wanting my parents tocome over.
I didn't want them coming tothe college campus when I was
there.
But then I started thinking,where does she get the idea that
she could call me to door dasha sandwich offer to her?
It must be me doing somethingto set that kind of mindset into
(06:37):
her entitlement.
So I think parents have to stopand think about that.
What am I doing that's takingover too much or creating this
kind of dependency that I'mgoing to do things for them that
they should be able to do forthemselves, or that we we're
going to intercept the naturalconsequence of that situation
(06:58):
and fix it.
Okay, she's going to be hungryfor a night.
Big deal.
Yeah.
Todd (07:03):
So breakfast in the morning.
You'll be good.
Yeah.
Jack (07:06):
Yeah.
Todd (07:06):
Yeah.
So my um that that's the way myparents were when I was coming
up.
It was like, hey, you got 18.
You're an adult now.
So a switch was flipped.
Jack (07:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Todd (07:16):
We were expected to uh either go to school or military,
go get a job, something.
All right.
But as I was a boy, you know,being a boy, we just couldn't
wait to get out of the house.
So that was it wasn't too muchof a problem for for us.
So yeah.
I decided to join the military.
That's uh that's how I got mylaunch, but uh worked out pretty
well.
Now, what's your advice toparents who didn't have a good
(07:39):
model for parenting when theywere kids?
And how do they execute thislaunch without a good model?
Jack (07:45):
Yeah, that's a good question.
And and I I guess I would say,Todd, I think I think we're
wired to love our kids, and thatin our hearts is this hard
wearing that that's what weshould do.
And if you didn't have thatwith your parents, you still
know what's the right way to beas a mother, as a dad.
I had a guy I worked with andhis his father was an abusive
(08:09):
alcoholic and beat him, learneda lie, you know, just to get out
of stuff, uh, ended up havingan alcohol problem himself, but
then became sober and hasmaintained his sobriety.
But he said to me, I will nevertreat my kids like my father
treated me.
So I think we can learn fromgood modeling and we can learn
(08:31):
from bad modeling, how not to beas a parent.
But I think there's no excuse.
I mean, I'm not I don't givesomebody a break and say, well,
I had bad parent things, so Ican't I don't know what to do.
No, you know what to do.
You know how to be a goodmother or a good father.
You know, you know what itwould what you wanted, what you
wanted to have from yourparents.
(08:51):
Uh e if that's the way you wantto think about it.
Todd (08:54):
So yeah.
Yeah, one thing that I enjoyedwas having good folks, good
seeing good dads interact withtheir kids.
And uh that was a goodinfluence on me, so I appreciate
that.
So yeah, so so those are thesome of the common pitfalls and
struggles, but now let's talkabout starting when they're
young and how to train them.
(09:15):
Now, and I say that in thiscontext, it hurts to watch adult
children experience hardship.
Yeah, what are some of thethings we can do while they're
young to save them a lot of painwhen they become adults?
Jack (09:29):
Yeah, I think that I think it's important for us to allow
them to experience certainconsequences of their behavior.
So my son and his wife, andthey've got four boys, nine down
to sixteen months, and they'rewild.
They're flying all over theplace constantly.
(09:50):
But they're pretty strict withtheir boys, and and the boys
will eat anything.
They've learned over time thatwhatever's set in front of them,
you know, and they say, Well, Idon't like it, I don't think
I'm gonna I don't want to eatthat.
Well, they're gonna get it forbreakfast.
So you don't have to eat it,but it will be your breakfast,
you know, the next day.
So that's the consequence ofthat.
(10:11):
So I think you know, being ableto not not protect the kids
from something that you know isis going to be a life lesson for
them.
You know, um, they have a theyrun into a bullying situation in
in in elementary school orsomething.
Parent can be there and besupportive of them.
(10:34):
And I always start withencouraging parents to ask them,
what do you what do you thinkyou should do?
What are your ideas about howyou want to handle this?
And then maybe I might makesome suggestion to them.
But I'm not going to jump intothe situation and call the
parents and say, your kid isbullying my kid.
I mean you know, I remembergrowing up, I I thought if I
(10:59):
ever got in trouble in school, Iwould get it twice as bad when
I got home.
But now I have a sister who'sbeen a teacher and a
brother-in-law as principal, andthey're saying, now the parents
come in and complain, you know,about it.
My kid's in trouble.
You know, he said something,you know, told the parent, you
know, F off or something likethat.
Now I'm coming in to defend mykid against that kind of
(11:21):
behavior.
It's a different world today.
But I think kids have to facethe consequences, and I think we
can't just jump in there andtry to soften that experience
for them.
Todd (11:33):
Yeah, my my sister-in-law was a teacher.
She retired she's a retiredteacher, and the same.
Basically, parents coming indefending the kids, kids doing
horrible things, not doing theirstudy, not studying, not doing
their homework, yeah, and thengetting in trouble, and then the
parents came in, they wouldcome in to defend them and
attack the faculty.
It was it's a different worldout there.
Jack (11:54):
So yeah.
Absolutely.
And I and I don't know ifthat's part of the
overinvestment of parents, youknow, which I think has
continued into the Gen X and theand the millennial and then uh
and now into the Gen Zgenerations, because it seems
like each generation seems to bedoing more and wanting more and
more for their kids to be happyand successful, and more
(12:17):
activities they're involved in.
The parents are running rightand left and being sure they're
happy and they're involved andthey're successful in these
activities.
Todd (12:27):
So yeah.
Yeah, one thing one of thethings that my son, after he
started college, so he's out inthe world now, he's encountering
other children, other kids hisage, young adults, and he told
us that he he was surprised athow many of his peers just
didn't know how to take care ofthemselves, just washing, doing
laundry and stuff like that.
And uh, you know, I'm notsaying I was a great parent.
(12:51):
I have a lot of shortcomings,but that was one of the things
we we made sure they knew how tocook and clean and do their
laundry and stuff like that.
But uh that was kind ofrewarding to hear that from him,
so that was good.
But yeah, they've got toexperience that hardship though.
Jack (13:07):
Yeah, you you did something right then in terms of
helping your son learn to bemore independent while he's at
home.
And that's what I say.
If you've got a young adultliving at home, uh you've got a
roommate, and if they're goingto school or if they're working,
and those are the two options,doing nothing is not not an
option.
But then you need to contributein the house.
(13:29):
You need to do your laundry,keep your room clean, cook some
meals, and all that helps youget prepared to be on your own.
It becomes a more easytransition once you've done all
that stuff.
Oh, I can live in an apartment,I had to cook, you know.
So I think as parents, we havea responsibility preparing our
young adults, our teens tobecome more independent young
(13:53):
adults and self-sufficient.
Todd (13:55):
Agreed.
That leads to another question.
You just triggered somethinghere.
What is the problem with havingan adult child living at home
with you and doing nothing?
Jack (14:05):
Yeah, first of all, uh let me let me be clear that my
definition of a launched child,a launched young adult, has
nothing to do with where theylive.
You can have a young adultliving at home, working
full-time, paying rent, having agood relationship with the
parents, helping out at home,cooking meals, you know, doing
(14:26):
laundry and everything.
To me, that's aself-sufficient, independent
young adult.
Doesn't mean but I think thestereotypical notion of uh
launched young adult will haveto be living on their own.
Now you could have somebodyliving on their own on their
own, but the parents are payingfor all their expenses and
apartment, and that's not alaunch young adult, in my
opinion.
(14:46):
So, but what I do say is Iwrote a blog, never evict your
uh young adult from the home.
And people will, wait a minute,there's never to do that?
Well, what I say is that you asparents have expectations and
rules, and there's some somewhat I call kind of rules with
(15:11):
some consequences, and thenthere's deal breaker rules.
Things like no drugs in thehouse, no violence, no threats,
you know, no stealing, thosekinds of things.
And if you have a young adultat home that basically doesn't
want to abide by the rules,they're choosing to live
someplace else.
They're saying, I don't likethis environment, I'd like to
(15:31):
live someplace else.
You know, so it's not theparents kicking them out of the
home, it's them saying, eitherverbalizing, I want to live
someplace else, or by theiractions saying, I want to live
someplace else.
Now, what I tell the parents isdon't just say, well, you know,
hit the road, don't let thedoor hit you in butt as you go
out the door.
(15:51):
Say, hey, help them move out.
Listen, it's not working.
But we we love you and we wantyou to be happy.
And if if if this is what ittakes for you to live someplace
else to feel better aboutyourself and more
self-sufficient, we'll help you.
We'll give help you get into anapartment, we'll give you some
furniture and some dishes andstuff.
So don't just kind of leave itin a rejection kind of thing.
(16:16):
Okay, get out of here.
You don't like it here, get outof here.
We'll help you.
Because it is natural for youngadults, late teens, young
adults, to want to move on.
So some maybe don't know how tosay that, but they act out in
ways that indicate they reallydo want to live someplace else.
So yeah.
Todd (16:36):
Yeah, a couple of thoughts on that.
First off, my in-laws, they hadfour daughters and one son.
And yeah, the daughters aftercollege, they moved back in for
a time, but they were chargedrent and they were expected to
help out around the house.
And it was not an angry thingor so I appreciate what you're
saying and how how to deliverthat message.
You set the expectation, butyou're not you're not being mean
(16:59):
about it.
You're just saying, hey, thisisn't working.
I appreciate that.
So that's nice.
Jack (17:04):
Yeah, I mean I was gonna say those deal breaker rules are
what society, they're societyrules.
So I mean, it's not like you'resaying some unusual rules, you
know.
Now, yeah, look, if you ifyou're making a lot of noise at
night or something, and youknow, maybe we cut the Wi-Fi
system off or something, youknow, maybe there's some things
(17:24):
that we do in terms ofconsequences.
You're not busting your dishesback uh from your bedroom or
something.
There, those are things youdon't say, okay, well you're out
of here because but these dealbreakers for sure, you can't
just have somebody stay at homeand enable them to do behavior
like that that's not going to beaccepted in society.
(17:45):
You're not doing any doing themany favor.
Todd (17:48):
Yeah, when my kids were younger, they we had an we had
something that went on.
I can't remember what it was,but it it was an adult or a teen
or someone that was it was afailure-to-launch situation.
And it was a it was a timewhere the kids were asking about
it, and at dinner I just said,yeah, I mean, our goal as
parents, we're here to help youlearn to become responsible
(18:10):
adults.
We want you to be contributingmembers of society, and we kind
of preach that to them now.
So I yeah, I'm saying thesethings, and I don't want to hold
myself up as a an ideal parentbecause I I did things like my
son wouldn't eat a piece ofhamburger meat, and you know,
then I tried to force the issuewith him.
(18:32):
I should have stepped back andjust said, yeah, you know, okay,
you're gonna eat it tomorrow,but um yeah, not a perfect
parent, so I'm not trying tohold myself out like that.
Jack (18:40):
So I had I of course I grew up with you know, you had
to eat everything on your plate,and so I I revised that a
little bit.
You have to eat some ofeverything on your on your
plate.
That's a little easier on mykids than than I was, than my
parents were.
Todd (18:57):
Right.
Yeah, I mean if I was doing itnow, I would be a totally
different parent knowing what Iknow now.
So now now back to teachingthem while they're young.
How do we support our kidswithout enabling them or
stunting their growth?
And in some of your yourwritings, you say love and
backbone.
Can you talk about that?
Jack (19:14):
Yeah.
Well, I think that parents haveto make a shift as the kids are
moving into their adolescencefrom a control and directing
kind of way of operating as aparent to more of a consulting
and coaching.
There should be more freedomfor them to make decisions on
(19:35):
their own with with theconsulting and and coaching that
you can give them.
So some some people in thisfield would say we you should
really back off and not beinvolved.
And I'm not sure that's theright message because it it
could be experiencesabandonment.
You've been directing andcontrolling me and telling me
(19:55):
what to do.
Now you now you just stoppedcompletely.
I I think, and I that wouldn'tfit for me because I would like
to give my opinion, uh, youknow, or give them some ideas.
But I also I tell them as aconsultant, I'm gonna I'm gonna
tell you, look, you make yourown decision on this, but I'm
gonna give you some ideas.
(20:16):
And so I it's kind of asandwich approach.
Um, you make your own decision,here's some ideas, and then
afterward, but you have to makeyour own decision, and I won't
be mad at you if you don'tfollow through on the on what I
suggested.
So yeah, I have a uh guide forparents.
You know, parents are saying,well, how do I how do I balance
(20:38):
this love and backgroundbackground?
And I and I ask parents to askthree questions of themselves.
First is, am I acting, am Ideciding and acting in love and
not out of fear, anxiety, worry,guilt, resentment, or whatever?
So and secondly, am I actingand deciding consistent with my
(20:59):
principles, being responsible,telling the truth, following
through?
And finally, is the action andthe decision I'm making likely
to increase their independenceor increase their dependency on
me?
So it's a good way if parentsask those questions when they're
trying to make a decision ortake some kind of action.
(21:20):
You can't necessarily I can'tnecessarily respond to every
particular situation that comesup.
But I think if parents kind oflook in the mirror and ask
themselves those questions, theycan come out with a pretty good
combination of love andbackbone.
Todd (21:36):
I like that.
Yeah, and a couple things.
When my kids were coming up, Ididn't really make that
transition from when they werehitting their teen years to
becoming a consultant, you know,just being transparent.
I I still kept focusing oncontrolling situations and you
know, doing things like that andnot really switching over to
(21:56):
being that consultant.
So I recognize that now.
And uh yeah, that can causeproblems.
But I I appreciate theprinciples that you're throwing
out there, doing it in love.
And that made me I realizedthat a lot of times as a parent,
I did things out of fear.
Fear that, oh, they're going togrow up to be ex and that's not
(22:18):
a good thing.
And so just being driven byfear, so that happens a lot.
So do you see that?
Is that common for parents?
Jack (22:25):
Yeah, that you know, it's it's kind of maybe protecting
them in some way.
Um it's kind of the fear thatthey could get hurt or be you
know protect them.
I probably was over-controllingwith my girls.
I had one boy and two girls,and I mean, I pretty much said,
no, you're not driving down toMinneapolis and go to a club
down there.
It's not gonna happen.
(22:46):
You know, they're in theirteens, it's just not happening.
Yeah.
I was aware of some of thestatistics around one in four
girls by the time they're 18being sexually molested or
something.
So that's in the back of myhead.
And I'm saying, I'm gonna getyou to this point.
When you're 18, you're movedout.
I won't be able to tell you youcan't go down to the club down
(23:07):
in Minneapolis.
Yeah.
But as long as you're in myhouse, you're not going down
there.
Todd (23:14):
Yeah, my wife, I've heard her say several times when the
kids were in the house.
My goal as a parent is to getyou to adulthood with as little
baggage as possible.
So that's a good that's a goodgoal, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I heard, I think it wasJordan Peterson.
He said, he said that asparents, we're supposed to be
proxies for our children to theworld.
(23:35):
So we're introducing them tothe world.
And I I like that thought.
And yeah, so introducing themto the world like that.
Now, let's talk about money.
Jack (23:43):
Okay.
Todd (23:43):
You've said that over 60% of young adults are financially
supported by their parents.
Yeah.
What are your thoughts on thatand how do you approach the
subject of finances with yourchildren?
Jack (23:55):
Yeah, I I don't think that uh that parents who help their
young adults in in some specificways is a particular problem,
uh, such as helping with thecost of a wedding or helping
maybe to get them into a house,helping with down payment, some
of those types of things.
(24:16):
Um but I I think that beyondthat, I think if parents can't
think of what will this do tothe person if I take over and I
I pay for this cost or thisexpense.
You know, when my my oldestdaughter and son-in-law had
twins and they had pretty closeto their oldest child, and at
(24:39):
one point they had them all indaycare because they both
worked, and they were spending$2,400, $2,500 a month on
daycare, which is a a decentmortgage payment, you know, to
have that.
And it was it was crushing themand because they had some
college debt and stuff likethat.
I talked to my wife and said,well, you know, we could afford
(25:00):
to maybe pay for some of thatthat child care cost, and and we
just said, no, let themstruggle with that, you know.
They're gonna have the biggestpay increase ever when those
last two twins go off to school.
But now they're gonna have$2,400 more dollars uh to work
with.
And we didn't jump in.
(25:21):
And you know, I think that wasthe right thing to do, but it
was hard to watch them.
And they would my daughterwould complain, you know, we
just don't have any money, we'rejust barely getting by and all.
But they did it.
And I think there's a pride nowthat they got through that, uh,
that kind of a hardship.
Todd (25:40):
So yeah, when when my wife and my wife and I got married
really young, we were 21.
I was in the military, and wedidn't have very much money at
all, and my pay was pretty low.
But my father-in-law, the wayhe had a policy with his kids
where he would pay for things,but then he would he had a
little black book and he wouldwrite it in the book, and you
(26:02):
had to pay him back.
And so my wife and I gotmarried.
She had a problem with her car,uh, may have needed brakes or
whatever the case.
It was some kind of problemwith the car.
And we were really low onfunds.
He paid for the job for the jobto be done on the car and then
put it in the book.
And we were adults and out ofthe house, and then we we paid
him back pretty quickly.
(26:23):
But I think that was a goodapproach to it.
He wasn't, you know, we weren'the wasn't supporting, they
weren't supporting us out justbeing just blowing all of our
money and living a lifestyle wecan't afford.
But that was just a basic needfor transportation.
They stepped in and said, Oh,okay, cool, we'll we'll help you
out with this.
But then expect the expectationwas set, you're going to pay it
(26:44):
back.
So they were super nice aboutit.
It was very cool.
So I appreciate my inputs forthat.
Jack (26:49):
And there's some things like that where the you you have
to have the car for work andit's broken down, you just don't
have the cost, or there's somekind of health care expense
that's just is really righttough to handle.
And you know, I think you cando that kind of, hey, we'll do
it as a loan.
Sometimes I think I I Iencourage parents to consider a
(27:10):
matching kind of thing.
I'll pay half of it, you needto pay half of it.
Yeah.
Or sometimes maybe there's evensome work you could do.
You know, come over, I gotthings they need to be that need
to be done at the house, andthen we'll pay you for that,
that you could use that to kindof uh take care of some expenses
that you have.
It gives them a feeling thatit's not in charity.
(27:32):
It's not just a right, youknow, you're just a charitable
contribution to them.
Yeah, no.
Todd (27:38):
You don't get an expectation that you're just
going to give them money.
And uh yeah, we've done stufflike that with our kids too,
paying them to do jobs and stufflike that.
Jack (27:46):
Yeah, very good.
Todd (27:47):
So, and and another thing, just thinking about finances in
general, that's you know,teaching my kids about saving
and investing.
That was important.
That's a little bit outside ofthe scope of our conversation,
but uh teaching them to be goodwith their finances, that's I
think that's primo.
So being responsible for that.
Yeah.
So that's uh that's trainingthem when they're young.
(28:09):
Now, let's talk about learningto let go.
Now, assuming, let's talk twosides of this coin.
Assuming we've laid thegroundwork for a successful
launch, what does it look liketo make that transition from
teen at home to independentyoung adult?
Jack (28:25):
Yeah, it's uh well, there's a challenge from both
sides.
Obviously, the young adultchallenge is to uh be able to be
that self-sufficient,responsible, independent person.
And from the parent side, Ithink it is to make that make
that transition into uh you knowa new new situation in which
(28:52):
the kids are not the primaryfocus of of your relationship.
Because while they're at home,parents tend to be pretty kid
focused, okay, and we'reresponsible, and okay, what are
they doing tonight or where arethey going?
That all changes when they'veleft home and now they're
they're established.
Um it's you know, it can be atime of some sadness and grief
(29:16):
as you're uh you don't heartheir voices in the house
anymore, and that's that can bedifficult, but it's also an
opportune opportunity.
It's it's uh this uh kind of uhI think the Japanese symbol for
crisis is danger andopportunity.
So there's there's some dangerhere and there's some
(29:37):
opportunity.
What I found for my wife and Iwas the return of the ability to
be spontaneous, go out forpizza, do things together, take
some trips and stuff.
Because we didn't have that.
Okay, who's taking care ofkids?
Are they we gotta are theygonna be home tonight or not?
You know, when they were out ofthe house, we slept really.
(29:59):
Really well when came home fromcollege in the in the summer or
whatever, and they weren't homeat night, and then we weren't
sleeping very well.
So there's an out-of-sight,out-of-mind relief that I think
that uh goes with that.
Uh but it's there's sometransition here.
I think it's a greatopportunity for couples to
reinvent their marriage, tofocus on each other.
(30:22):
And okay, now we're we don'thave to be you know always
concerned about what's what'sgoing on with our kids.
I that's why I say it's alittle bit of a crisis because
there's some danger there.
If you've been so kid focused,it might be like, well, who are
you now?
We don't know each otheroutside of our ma and pa role.
(30:43):
Right.
And but and we have to kind ofreform our relationship at that
point in time.
So right.
Todd (30:50):
Might be time for some counseling for the parents.
Jack (30:52):
It's yeah.
Todd (30:53):
Yeah, some uh little boost there.
Jack (30:56):
Yeah, it's I mean it's a little bit of a risk.
There's a certain time of itwhere divorce takes place.
I've had parents say we'rewaiting for the kids to leave
and then we're gonna getdivorced.
So wow.
Which which is a shame, youknow.
Well, the problem's now, youknow.
Yeah.
Todd (31:12):
Yeah, that's tough.
Now now my daughter, she shewas the last I've got a son, one
son, one daughter.
Daughter, she's the last one,she's out of the house.
And there was that transition.
There's a little bit ofsadness, but yeah, then she
comes home for breaks and stufflike that.
It's nice whenever she's notthere to be able to just talk
(31:33):
without having to watch whatyou're saying, being able to you
don't have to think about okay,she had food.
Think just little things likethat, because you're always
concerned about your kids andwhether or not they're they've
gotten supper and things likethat.
So it's a weight lifted off.
Sure.
But at the same time, you'remissing them.
Jack (31:49):
So yeah, yeah, it's a it's a bittersweet kind of
experience in some ways.
Right.
Todd (31:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, and just complimenting mymy in-laws.
We were married up inAlexandria, Virginia area.
And after we got married, theparents never called us.
They left they hands off.
They didn't want to injectthemselves, they didn't want to
get in involved in and they justdidn't want to bother us.
And so my wife had to call themand say, you know, it's okay if
(32:16):
you if you call every now andthen.
And then they started invitingus for for dinner and things
like that.
Jack (32:22):
But uh Yeah, well, that's a bit, but it's you'd like you
like that kind of model ofhands-off, and I can I can't
remember my parents said, Okay,you're married now.
This is your primaryrelationship as your wife, not
our.
We're not the primaryrelationship.
So they stepped back and verymuch supported us as a couple.
(32:45):
So it was no longer this realprimary relationship with me.
The relationship was primaryrelationship with was with us as
a couple.
And that felt that was reallyvery affirming and supporting of
our marriage.
Todd (32:58):
So yeah, that's that's really good.
So the other side of the coinnow, assuming we haven't had or
we haven't laid the groundworkfor a successful launch, is it
possible as a parent to justmake a course correction?
And what does letting go looklike in in that scenario?
What are some of the notnecessarily bad stories, but
(33:19):
rocky situations that you'veencountered?
Jack (33:21):
Absolutely.
I worked with this couple, theyhad a 28-year-old son living at
home.
He actually had a pretty goodjob, but it was very
contentious.
And they were saying, It'stime, you know, this isn't
working well.
You don't appreciate, I justwant to keep your room clean and
this this and that, but you'rejust obviously unhappy here.
(33:42):
And the relationship wascontentious, particularly with
the father, too.
So he threatened them.
He said, Well, you kick me out,I'll never speak to you again.
You know, I threatened him withthat.
And so I I worked with him, andmy approach, it's interesting
you use the word path.
My approach is to help parentsand young adults just get a path
(34:04):
forward.
Because in s in most cases,they're both stuck.
The parents are stuck and notknowing what to do.
The young adult is stuckbecause they're afraid, they're
not sure you know how to moveforward in their lives.
So I interviewed a young adult,and then I interviewed this
young adult, and it turns outthat he was bullied as a kid.
And he had all this resentmentfrom his with his parents
(34:26):
because he didn't feel like theysupported him, that they were
they were really sensitive tohow damaging and upsetting this
was to him.
So I took that back to theparents and encouraged them to
write a letter of apology tohim.
And in in the case of themother, it was quite a nice
letter.
The father, I think, maybe toldhim personally just how in a in
(34:49):
a in a verbal exchange with himhow sorry he was he didn't see
that, and and if they could doit over again, they they would
have been much more supportiveof him.
Well then that changed, and andpretty soon he moved out with a
couple of uh friends living inan apartment.
I got a uh note from the whatwas a clip from the mother here
(35:10):
a few months ago showing him ata graduation for a two-year
computer science course,thanking the parents for always
being there for him.
You're always being there.
So I one of my practices that Iencourage parents to do is to
apologize, apologize.
Unless you're a perfect parent,then you then you're you're
(35:31):
you're excluded exempted fromthis.
I haven't found that personyet.
Nope.
It helps for the parent,because I think parents are the
I feel like the guiltiestsegment of our society.
I mean, most parents think,particularly if there's some
problems with your kids, well,what did I do wrong, or must
have been this, or that I didn'tdo this, or whatever.
(35:52):
So for the parents to be ableto just say, hey, I'm sorry, I
can't I I can't do it over.
Uh all I can do is say that I'msorry and I apologize for this.
So that that also has thepotential to soften the young
adult's anger or resentmenttoward the parent.
It can't be done to be sure youget that response from the
(36:16):
young adult, but it doestypically reduce some of that
anger, resentment that's goingon there.
And then I encourage parents toforgive themselves for this.
Yeah, one thing say apologize,and then just don't keep
carrying around, forgiveyourself for this.
Okay, there's nothing you cando other than forgive yourself.
(36:37):
And sometimes parents have toforgive their kids because the
kids have been really difficultor challenging or in a lot of
trouble or whatever, and theparents have some anger and
maybe resentment toward theirkids that they need to forgive
their kids in order to reallyestablish that positive
relationship that they want tohave with the kids as they
(36:59):
leave.
So right.
Todd (37:01):
Yeah, and I I appreciate what you say.
You talk about forgiveness as agift.
Jack (37:06):
Yeah.
Todd (37:07):
That's uh that's a loving approach, man.
I really appreciate that.
Jack (37:11):
Yeah, uh apology is the antidote to guilt, and
forgiveness is the antidote toresentment and anger.
So Wow, that's deep.
And they're they're both gifts,you know.
Todd (37:23):
Yeah.
Yeah, I've had to apologize toboth my kids for various things.
Jack (37:28):
Yeah.
Todd (37:29):
And uh one of you know, making my kid eat that hamburger
when he hated it.
So he kind of laughed about itthough.
He was like, Oh yeah, okay.
He said, I haven't reallythought about it, but uh
sometimes I felt better aboutthings.
Jack (37:44):
I was able to let things apologize to my son about
something he didn't evenremember it, you know.
So but again, it was somethingI was carrying around with me,
you know.
So that's a similar situation.
Todd (37:57):
So yeah, same.
Yeah, I appreciate so whatyou're alluding to here is that
you provide coaching servicesfor you know parents with kids
and smaller children and alsoparents, kids that have adults.
Um so you're doing work withboth of those demographics,
right?
Jack (38:12):
Yeah, it's well, it's mainly with a teen and young
adult demographic.
I I'm not so much working withparents with younger kids at
this point.
And I I do my work in Minnesotaas a licensed psychologist.
If I see parents outside ofMinnesota, I I do that as a
parent coach.
So it's got it, it's a littlebit different.
It's uh you know, one is moreof a therapeutic.
(38:34):
I I I would be able to do sometherapeutic work.
The other one is more of acoaching role.
Uh but that one, but thenthat's not covered by insurance,
so people would have to pay youknow privately for that.
But I do see a number of peopleoutside of Minnesota in that
coaching role.
So that's good.
Todd (38:54):
Yeah, well, that's a good place to uh talk about your
books.
Uh you've got a number of booksout there.
And uh what's the most recentone?
Can you talk about that?
Jack (39:03):
Well, uh I'll mention one older book, which is a shorter
one.
It's called Growing Apart.
Uh, and this is really one in aseries of six small books that
speak to these practices that Ithink parents need to strengthen
to launch their young adults.
So this is really about theperiod when they leave home and
(39:25):
how you need to kind of uhreinvent yourselves as a couple.
So that's now I took those sixsix practices, and I I wrote one
book, which is this one, theThe Parents Launch Code.
So it has all six of thesepractices, and and it describes
this process they use of helpingto create a path forward for
(39:48):
the parents and the young adultto work together in a
partnership way on a on adirection that the young adult
wants to go uh in terms of theirlaunch process.
Todd (40:00):
Yeah.
And uh I understand you're aman of faith.
How does your faith influenceor inform your approach to
parenting?
Jack (40:07):
Well, you know, the first practice that I talk parent I
talk to parents about, which isfound I say is foundational, is
that of communicatingunconditional love.
Love no matter what, and thatcreates a sense of security.
So that really comes right outof my experience of God's
unconditional love for me.
(40:27):
You know, and I think we asparents need to express that
same kind of love to our kidsthat creates this sense of
security that in their darkestmoments and times they know mom
and dad love them no matterwhat.
May not approve of behavior,but there's nothing that can
break that bond that exists.
And that's the that's themessage of the gospel, too.
(40:50):
Nothing can break the bond oflove there that we have in in
Jesus Christ.
So forgiveness, apology, Imean, those are very much rooted
out of my my Christianexperience.
You know, so uh a lot of it'snot explicit, I'm not it's not
written as an explicit bookabout those Christian
(41:12):
underpinnings, but they theyclearly are there, I think, if
if you're you know looking forthem.
Todd (41:19):
Yeah, universal truths.
So that's uh that's good.
Now, how do people get incontact with you?
Jack (41:25):
Well, my website is called parentslettinggo.com.
So they can go there and theycan get on my mailing list if
they want and uh check out mywebsite.
There's probably 150 blogs thatI've done there.
Usually, and they those blogsare written in response to
parents' issues that have comeup.
(41:46):
So they do um so it's it wouldbe hard for a parent to not find
something that they'restruggling with that I haven't
written about at one time oranother.
But you can get on the mailinglist.
I'm gonna probably I'm probablygonna do a webinar this fall
yet.
Uh, and I'll invite parents toattend that that would be just
going through my basic approachand and things that they can do
(42:10):
to uh you know be able tofacilitate a uh positive launch
of their kids.
Todd (42:17):
Excellent.
Yeah, I've I've gone to yourwebsite and just a testimonial
here from my side, there's justtons of parenting resources.
It's parentslettinggo.com.
And there's also an area.
Do you still do?
I saw an area where you canbook a 50-minute parent
consultation.
Do you still do those?
Jack (42:34):
Sure.
Perfect.
Sure.
That's the you can go backthere and you can uh just
connect to me and request thatconsultation.
So yeah.
Todd (42:43):
Okay.
Yeah.
And if uh if you're in theMinnesota area, he can provide
therapeutic services, but uhoutside of the case.
Yeah, so we'll put links in thedescription for his website and
also uh for the books that werementioned here.
But uh Jack, I appreciate yourtime.
It's been a good goodconversation, sir.
Jack (43:05):
Yeah, I enjoyed uh enjoyed talking with you about this.
Todd (43:07):
So yeah, same.
Now, just to my takeaways here,parenting, it's it's a tough
job, and they're we can't do italone.
I remember our our childrenwere born.
I just thought, I have no ideawhat I'm doing.
I remember driving my son homefrom the hospital for the first
time, just thinking, why arethey letting us do this?
Someone should have someoneshould teach me.
(43:30):
There should be a license orsomething, but there isn't.
And they just put the baby inthe car and went home.
And uh it's a tough job.
And many of us haven't reallyhad a good example of a parent,
but there are resources outthere, and we've got access to
coaches like Dr.
Stoltz was here to help us.
So check out his books, checkout his website, and uh sign up
(43:52):
for his newsletter and uh seekout the help that you need to
get better.
So thank you so much forlistening.
And if you enjoyed thisepisode, please consider leaving
a review, share it with yourfriends, and until next time,
we'll see you on the path.
This is the Clutter Path, a compass for midlife.
Are you ready to let go?
In a world where parentsstruggle to balance supporting
their kids while teaching themindependence, today's guest has
(00:20):
a mission to help them launchtheir kids into a
self-sufficient and responsibleadulthood.
Today we're talking to Dr.
Jack Stoltzfus, also known asAmerica's Launch Coach, about
how to transform your parentingapproach from that of a safety
net into a launch pad, helpingyour kids thrive as independent
adults.
We're going to discuss some ofthe common pitfalls that we
(00:42):
experience as parents, and thenwe're going to explore the
journey of letting go whileorchestrating a successful
launch.
Jack, welcome to the show.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Would you mind giving ouraudience some background on your
credentials, some books you'vewritten, and also the work you
do as America's launch coach?
Jack (01:00):
Okay, sure.
My background is basically I'ma psychologist, my PhD at the
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Did my dissertation work, andthat that's really kind of the
origin of my interest in parentsat launching, that I did my
dissertation work on how todefine a healthy separation of
(01:22):
adolescents from parents.
And it was driven somewhat bymy estranged relationship with
my father.
Had a kind of distancerelationship, had a lot of
insecurity about it, whether hereally loved me or not.
And and, you know, I kind ofworked that through to the point
where we reconciled, and Icould hear him tell me he loved
(01:44):
me, and it was a reallyreassuring kind of experience in
my life.
But I I wanted to study, well,how does that work?
How do how do you deal withthose distance or that
separation or that sense ofinsecurity, you know, as a as a
teenager or young adult.
And then fast forward um thelast 10, 15 years, I've been a
(02:04):
parent of young adults myself.
So I thought, well, I can I canspeak to the experience of my
own parenting of young adults,as well as an understanding as a
young adult myself.
And that kind of that uh waspart of the uh undermining of my
work in launching young adults.
(02:25):
And and I didn't see a lot ofresources out there, so I I
started to uh uh develop awebsite, and I do my clinical
work is really focused onparents of young adults with the
mission, and you and you juststated it fairly clearly, uh,
and that is to help parentslaunch their young adults into
self-sufficient, responsibleadulthood while maintaining a
(02:50):
caring bond with them.
And that last part's reallyimportant, and and not all
people who work in this fieldwould define a positive launch
in that way.
But I I do because I thinkthat's that's the natural way
that we want to have thatexperience occur.
So we let go of our kids, butwe keep this caring connection
(03:12):
with them as well.
Todd (03:13):
So that's a worthy goal, and that's born out of your own
life and your desire to have agood relationship with your dad.
So I appreciate that.
So yeah, thanks for sharingthat.
Now, we'll just jump right in.
Let's talk about some of thecommon pitfalls and struggles
that we have as parents.
Now, you've done a lot ofresearch and you've coached many
parents.
Can you talk about and tell ussome of the reasons parents have
(03:35):
a failure to launch?
Jack (03:37):
Well, I think it has been a growing problem, and uh, and I
I would own it as a I'm aboomer, basically, I guess
that's the way you would labelme.
And I think it started somewhatwith our generation, because I
think our generation became moreinvested in the success and the
(03:57):
happiness of our kids than pastgenerations.
I mean, I my father, motherraised me in my age of 18.
They expected me to leave, andI was expecting to leave.
I wasn't coming back home.
And good luck, we've raised youat 18.
You're on your own now, andmake it or break it type of
(04:18):
thing.
But today's parents are moreinvested in their success and
happiness of their kids, andthat continues on when they're
16, 18, 20, 21.
And if your kid at 21 or 22 isuh struggling in some way,
parents continue to be involved.
And that's where that I thinkthe term helicopter parent has
(04:42):
often been used to describeparents who keep trying to
control or direct or fix orwhatever their their young
adults.
So I think that's probably thebiggest uh contributor to the
difficulty parents have inletting go these days.
Todd (04:59):
Yeah.
Now I've personally felt thispull in my own heart to shield
my kids from hardship.
What's the danger to our kidswhen we do too much of that?
Jack (05:09):
Yeah, it's yeah, that that overinvestment ends up creating
the problem.
So we talk about parents beinghelicopter parents,
overinvestment.
The overinvestment ends upcreating a generation of
entitled young adults, teens andyoung adults.
I have a funny story when I Imy daughter went off to uh
(05:31):
school about five miles away,Bethel College, and about two
months in, and we're happy tosee her go.
I mean, she was there was alittle bit of a contentious
situation.
It's time to be on your own,time to be off to college.
She called me about two monthsinto the into being at college,
and she said, Dad, she said, youknow, I didn't get back to the
(05:55):
dining room tonight uh and itclosed.
Would you would you bring asandwich over to me?
You know, it took me a minuteto get off the floor from
laughing at this.
What planet is she coming from?
And she so she says, Well, Iguess you're not going to bring
a sandwich.
No, not in this lifetime, and Icould do that.
(06:16):
And, you know, I thought, Iwouldn't even, I would never
think of wanting my parents tocome over.
I didn't want them coming tothe college campus when I was
there.
But then I started thinking,where does she get the idea that
she could call me to door dasha sandwich offer to her?
It must be me doing somethingto set that kind of mindset into
(06:37):
her entitlement.
So I think parents have to stopand think about that.
What am I doing that's takingover too much or creating this
kind of dependency that I'mgoing to do things for them that
they should be able to do forthemselves, or that we we're
going to intercept the naturalconsequence of that situation
(06:58):
and fix it.
Okay, she's going to be hungryfor a night.
Big deal.
Yeah.
Todd (07:03):
So breakfast in the morning.
You'll be good.
Yeah.
Jack (07:06):
Yeah.
Todd (07:06):
Yeah.
So my um that that's the way myparents were when I was coming
up.
It was like, hey, you got 18.
You're an adult now.
So a switch was flipped.
Jack (07:15):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Todd (07:16):
We were expected to uh either go to school or military,
go get a job, something.
All right.
But as I was a boy, you know,being a boy, we just couldn't
wait to get out of the house.
So that was it wasn't too muchof a problem for for us.
So yeah.
I decided to join the military.
That's uh that's how I got mylaunch, but uh worked out pretty
well.
Now, what's your advice toparents who didn't have a good
(07:39):
model for parenting when theywere kids?
And how do they execute thislaunch without a good model?
Jack (07:45):
Yeah, that's a good question.
And and I I guess I would say,Todd, I think I think we're
wired to love our kids, and thatin our hearts is this hard
wearing that that's what weshould do.
And if you didn't have thatwith your parents, you still
know what's the right way to beas a mother, as a dad.
I had a guy I worked with andhis his father was an abusive
(08:09):
alcoholic and beat him, learneda lie, you know, just to get out
of stuff, uh, ended up havingan alcohol problem himself, but
then became sober and hasmaintained his sobriety.
But he said to me, I will nevertreat my kids like my father
treated me.
So I think we can learn fromgood modeling and we can learn
(08:31):
from bad modeling, how not to beas a parent.
But I think there's no excuse.
I mean, I'm not I don't givesomebody a break and say, well,
I had bad parent things, so Ican't I don't know what to do.
No, you know what to do.
You know how to be a goodmother or a good father.
You know, you know what itwould what you wanted, what you
wanted to have from yourparents.
(08:51):
Uh e if that's the way you wantto think about it.
Todd (08:54):
So yeah.
Yeah, one thing that I enjoyedwas having good folks, good
seeing good dads interact withtheir kids.
And uh that was a goodinfluence on me, so I appreciate
that.
So yeah, so so those are thesome of the common pitfalls and
struggles, but now let's talkabout starting when they're
young and how to train them.
(09:15):
Now, and I say that in thiscontext, it hurts to watch adult
children experience hardship.
Yeah, what are some of thethings we can do while they're
young to save them a lot of painwhen they become adults?
Jack (09:29):
Yeah, I think that I think it's important for us to allow
them to experience certainconsequences of their behavior.
So my son and his wife, andthey've got four boys, nine down
to sixteen months, and they'rewild.
They're flying all over theplace constantly.
(09:50):
But they're pretty strict withtheir boys, and and the boys
will eat anything.
They've learned over time thatwhatever's set in front of them,
you know, and they say, Well, Idon't like it, I don't think
I'm gonna I don't want to eatthat.
Well, they're gonna get it forbreakfast.
So you don't have to eat it,but it will be your breakfast,
you know, the next day.
So that's the consequence ofthat.
(10:11):
So I think you know, being ableto not not protect the kids
from something that you know isis going to be a life lesson for
them.
You know, um, they have a theyrun into a bullying situation in
in in elementary school orsomething.
Parent can be there and besupportive of them.
(10:34):
And I always start withencouraging parents to ask them,
what do you what do you thinkyou should do?
What are your ideas about howyou want to handle this?
And then maybe I might makesome suggestion to them.
But I'm not going to jump intothe situation and call the
parents and say, your kid isbullying my kid.
I mean you know, I remembergrowing up, I I thought if I
(10:59):
ever got in trouble in school, Iwould get it twice as bad when
I got home.
But now I have a sister who'sbeen a teacher and a
brother-in-law as principal, andthey're saying, now the parents
come in and complain, you know,about it.
My kid's in trouble.
You know, he said something,you know, told the parent, you
know, F off or something likethat.
Now I'm coming in to defend mykid against that kind of
(11:21):
behavior.
It's a different world today.
But I think kids have to facethe consequences, and I think we
can't just jump in there andtry to soften that experience
for them.
Todd (11:33):
Yeah, my my sister-in-law was a teacher.
She retired she's a retiredteacher, and the same.
Basically, parents coming indefending the kids, kids doing
horrible things, not doing theirstudy, not studying, not doing
their homework, yeah, and thengetting in trouble, and then the
parents came in, they wouldcome in to defend them and
attack the faculty.
It was it's a different worldout there.
Jack (11:54):
So yeah.
Absolutely.
And I and I don't know ifthat's part of the
overinvestment of parents, youknow, which I think has
continued into the Gen X and theand the millennial and then uh
and now into the Gen Zgenerations, because it seems
like each generation seems to bedoing more and wanting more and
more for their kids to be happyand successful, and more
(12:17):
activities they're involved in.
The parents are running rightand left and being sure they're
happy and they're involved andthey're successful in these
activities.
Todd (12:27):
So yeah.
Yeah, one thing one of thethings that my son, after he
started college, so he's out inthe world now, he's encountering
other children, other kids hisage, young adults, and he told
us that he he was surprised athow many of his peers just
didn't know how to take care ofthemselves, just washing, doing
laundry and stuff like that.
And uh, you know, I'm notsaying I was a great parent.
(12:51):
I have a lot of shortcomings,but that was one of the things
we we made sure they knew how tocook and clean and do their
laundry and stuff like that.
But uh that was kind ofrewarding to hear that from him,
so that was good.
But yeah, they've got toexperience that hardship though.
Jack (13:07):
Yeah, you you did something right then in terms of
helping your son learn to bemore independent while he's at
home.
And that's what I say.
If you've got a young adultliving at home, uh you've got a
roommate, and if they're goingto school or if they're working,
and those are the two options,doing nothing is not not an
option.
But then you need to contributein the house.
(13:29):
You need to do your laundry,keep your room clean, cook some
meals, and all that helps youget prepared to be on your own.
It becomes a more easytransition once you've done all
that stuff.
Oh, I can live in an apartment,I had to cook, you know.
So I think as parents, we havea responsibility preparing our
young adults, our teens tobecome more independent young
(13:53):
adults and self-sufficient.
Todd (13:55):
Agreed.
That leads to another question.
You just triggered somethinghere.
What is the problem with havingan adult child living at home
with you and doing nothing?
Jack (14:05):
Yeah, first of all, uh let me let me be clear that my
definition of a launched child,a launched young adult, has
nothing to do with where theylive.
You can have a young adultliving at home, working
full-time, paying rent, having agood relationship with the
parents, helping out at home,cooking meals, you know, doing
(14:26):
laundry and everything.
To me, that's aself-sufficient, independent
young adult.
Doesn't mean but I think thestereotypical notion of uh
launched young adult will haveto be living on their own.
Now you could have somebodyliving on their own on their
own, but the parents are payingfor all their expenses and
apartment, and that's not alaunch young adult, in my
opinion.
(14:46):
So, but what I do say is Iwrote a blog, never evict your
uh young adult from the home.
And people will, wait a minute,there's never to do that?
Well, what I say is that you asparents have expectations and
rules, and there's some somewhat I call kind of rules with
(15:11):
some consequences, and thenthere's deal breaker rules.
Things like no drugs in thehouse, no violence, no threats,
you know, no stealing, thosekinds of things.
And if you have a young adultat home that basically doesn't
want to abide by the rules,they're choosing to live
someplace else.
They're saying, I don't likethis environment, I'd like to
(15:31):
live someplace else.
You know, so it's not theparents kicking them out of the
home, it's them saying, eitherverbalizing, I want to live
someplace else, or by theiractions saying, I want to live
someplace else.
Now, what I tell the parents isdon't just say, well, you know,
hit the road, don't let thedoor hit you in butt as you go
out the door.
(15:51):
Say, hey, help them move out.
Listen, it's not working.
But we we love you and we wantyou to be happy.
And if if if this is what ittakes for you to live someplace
else to feel better aboutyourself and more
self-sufficient, we'll help you.
We'll give help you get into anapartment, we'll give you some
furniture and some dishes andstuff.
So don't just kind of leave itin a rejection kind of thing.
(16:16):
Okay, get out of here.
You don't like it here, get outof here.
We'll help you.
Because it is natural for youngadults, late teens, young
adults, to want to move on.
So some maybe don't know how tosay that, but they act out in
ways that indicate they reallydo want to live someplace else.
So yeah.
Todd (16:36):
Yeah, a couple of thoughts on that.
First off, my in-laws, they hadfour daughters and one son.
And yeah, the daughters aftercollege, they moved back in for
a time, but they were chargedrent and they were expected to
help out around the house.
And it was not an angry thingor so I appreciate what you're
saying and how how to deliverthat message.
You set the expectation, butyou're not you're not being mean
(16:59):
about it.
You're just saying, hey, thisisn't working.
I appreciate that.
So that's nice.
Jack (17:04):
Yeah, I mean I was gonna say those deal breaker rules are
what society, they're societyrules.
So I mean, it's not like you'resaying some unusual rules, you
know.
Now, yeah, look, if you ifyou're making a lot of noise at
night or something, and youknow, maybe we cut the Wi-Fi
system off or something, youknow, maybe there's some things
(17:24):
that we do in terms ofconsequences.
You're not busting your dishesback uh from your bedroom or
something.
There, those are things youdon't say, okay, well you're out
of here because but these dealbreakers for sure, you can't
just have somebody stay at homeand enable them to do behavior
like that that's not going to beaccepted in society.
(17:45):
You're not doing any doing themany favor.
Todd (17:48):
Yeah, when my kids were younger, they we had an we had
something that went on.
I can't remember what it was,but it it was an adult or a teen
or someone that was it was afailure-to-launch situation.
And it was a it was a timewhere the kids were asking about
it, and at dinner I just said,yeah, I mean, our goal as
parents, we're here to help youlearn to become responsible
(18:10):
adults.
We want you to be contributingmembers of society, and we kind
of preach that to them now.
So I yeah, I'm saying thesethings, and I don't want to hold
myself up as a an ideal parentbecause I I did things like my
son wouldn't eat a piece ofhamburger meat, and you know,
then I tried to force the issuewith him.
(18:32):
I should have stepped back andjust said, yeah, you know, okay,
you're gonna eat it tomorrow,but um yeah, not a perfect
parent, so I'm not trying tohold myself out like that.
Jack (18:40):
So I had I of course I grew up with you know, you had
to eat everything on your plate,and so I I revised that a
little bit.
You have to eat some ofeverything on your on your
plate.
That's a little easier on mykids than than I was, than my
parents were.
Todd (18:57):
Right.
Yeah, I mean if I was doing itnow, I would be a totally
different parent knowing what Iknow now.
So now now back to teachingthem while they're young.
How do we support our kidswithout enabling them or
stunting their growth?
And in some of your yourwritings, you say love and
backbone.
Can you talk about that?
Jack (19:14):
Yeah.
Well, I think that parents haveto make a shift as the kids are
moving into their adolescencefrom a control and directing
kind of way of operating as aparent to more of a consulting
and coaching.
There should be more freedomfor them to make decisions on
(19:35):
their own with with theconsulting and and coaching that
you can give them.
So some some people in thisfield would say we you should
really back off and not beinvolved.
And I'm not sure that's theright message because it it
could be experiencesabandonment.
You've been directing andcontrolling me and telling me
(19:55):
what to do.
Now you now you just stoppedcompletely.
I I think, and I that wouldn'tfit for me because I would like
to give my opinion, uh, youknow, or give them some ideas.
But I also I tell them as aconsultant, I'm gonna I'm gonna
tell you, look, you make yourown decision on this, but I'm
gonna give you some ideas.
(20:16):
And so I it's kind of asandwich approach.
Um, you make your own decision,here's some ideas, and then
afterward, but you have to makeyour own decision, and I won't
be mad at you if you don'tfollow through on the on what I
suggested.
So yeah, I have a uh guide forparents.
You know, parents are saying,well, how do I how do I balance
(20:38):
this love and backgroundbackground?
And I and I ask parents to askthree questions of themselves.
First is, am I acting, am Ideciding and acting in love and
not out of fear, anxiety, worry,guilt, resentment, or whatever?
So and secondly, am I actingand deciding consistent with my
(20:59):
principles, being responsible,telling the truth, following
through?
And finally, is the action andthe decision I'm making likely
to increase their independenceor increase their dependency on
me?
So it's a good way if parentsask those questions when they're
trying to make a decision ortake some kind of action.
(21:20):
You can't necessarily I can'tnecessarily respond to every
particular situation that comesup.
But I think if parents kind oflook in the mirror and ask
themselves those questions, theycan come out with a pretty good
combination of love andbackbone.
Todd (21:36):
I like that.
Yeah, and a couple things.
When my kids were coming up, Ididn't really make that
transition from when they werehitting their teen years to
becoming a consultant, you know,just being transparent.
I I still kept focusing oncontrolling situations and you
know, doing things like that andnot really switching over to
(21:56):
being that consultant.
So I recognize that now.
And uh yeah, that can causeproblems.
But I I appreciate theprinciples that you're throwing
out there, doing it in love.
And that made me I realizedthat a lot of times as a parent,
I did things out of fear.
Fear that, oh, they're going togrow up to be ex and that's not
(22:18):
a good thing.
And so just being driven byfear, so that happens a lot.
So do you see that?
Is that common for parents?
Jack (22:25):
Yeah, that you know, it's it's kind of maybe protecting
them in some way.
Um it's kind of the fear thatthey could get hurt or be you
know protect them.
I probably was over-controllingwith my girls.
I had one boy and two girls,and I mean, I pretty much said,
no, you're not driving down toMinneapolis and go to a club
down there.
It's not gonna happen.
(22:46):
You know, they're in theirteens, it's just not happening.
Yeah.
I was aware of some of thestatistics around one in four
girls by the time they're 18being sexually molested or
something.
So that's in the back of myhead.
And I'm saying, I'm gonna getyou to this point.
When you're 18, you're movedout.
I won't be able to tell you youcan't go down to the club down
(23:07):
in Minneapolis.
Yeah.
But as long as you're in myhouse, you're not going down
there.
Todd (23:14):
Yeah, my wife, I've heard her say several times when the
kids were in the house.
My goal as a parent is to getyou to adulthood with as little
baggage as possible.
So that's a good that's a goodgoal, I think.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I heard, I think it wasJordan Peterson.
He said, he said that asparents, we're supposed to be
proxies for our children to theworld.
(23:35):
So we're introducing them tothe world.
And I I like that thought.
And yeah, so introducing themto the world like that.
Now, let's talk about money.
Jack (23:43):
Okay.
Todd (23:43):
You've said that over 60% of young adults are financially
supported by their parents.
Yeah.
What are your thoughts on thatand how do you approach the
subject of finances with yourchildren?
Jack (23:55):
Yeah, I I don't think that uh that parents who help their
young adults in in some specificways is a particular problem,
uh, such as helping with thecost of a wedding or helping
maybe to get them into a house,helping with down payment, some
of those types of things.
(24:16):
Um but I I think that beyondthat, I think if parents can't
think of what will this do tothe person if I take over and I
I pay for this cost or thisexpense.
You know, when my my oldestdaughter and son-in-law had
twins and they had pretty closeto their oldest child, and at
(24:39):
one point they had them all indaycare because they both
worked, and they were spending$2,400, $2,500 a month on
daycare, which is a a decentmortgage payment, you know, to
have that.
And it was it was crushing themand because they had some
college debt and stuff likethat.
I talked to my wife and said,well, you know, we could afford
(25:00):
to maybe pay for some of thatthat child care cost, and and we
just said, no, let themstruggle with that, you know.
They're gonna have the biggestpay increase ever when those
last two twins go off to school.
But now they're gonna have$2,400 more dollars uh to work
with.
And we didn't jump in.
(25:21):
And you know, I think that wasthe right thing to do, but it
was hard to watch them.
And they would my daughterwould complain, you know, we
just don't have any money, we'rejust barely getting by and all.
But they did it.
And I think there's a pride nowthat they got through that, uh,
that kind of a hardship.
Todd (25:40):
So yeah, when when my wife and my wife and I got married
really young, we were 21.
I was in the military, and wedidn't have very much money at
all, and my pay was pretty low.
But my father-in-law, the wayhe had a policy with his kids
where he would pay for things,but then he would he had a
little black book and he wouldwrite it in the book, and you
(26:02):
had to pay him back.
And so my wife and I gotmarried.
She had a problem with her car,uh, may have needed brakes or
whatever the case.
It was some kind of problemwith the car.
And we were really low onfunds.
He paid for the job for the jobto be done on the car and then
put it in the book.
And we were adults and out ofthe house, and then we we paid
him back pretty quickly.
(26:23):
But I think that was a goodapproach to it.
He wasn't, you know, we weren'the wasn't supporting, they
weren't supporting us out justbeing just blowing all of our
money and living a lifestyle wecan't afford.
But that was just a basic needfor transportation.
They stepped in and said, Oh,okay, cool, we'll we'll help you
out with this.
But then expect the expectationwas set, you're going to pay it
(26:44):
back.
So they were super nice aboutit.
It was very cool.
So I appreciate my inputs forthat.
Jack (26:49):
And there's some things like that where the you you have
to have the car for work andit's broken down, you just don't
have the cost, or there's somekind of health care expense
that's just is really righttough to handle.
And you know, I think you cando that kind of, hey, we'll do
it as a loan.
Sometimes I think I I Iencourage parents to consider a
(27:10):
matching kind of thing.
I'll pay half of it, you needto pay half of it.
Yeah.
Or sometimes maybe there's evensome work you could do.
You know, come over, I gotthings they need to be that need
to be done at the house, andthen we'll pay you for that,
that you could use that to kindof uh take care of some expenses
that you have.
It gives them a feeling thatit's not in charity.
(27:32):
It's not just a right, youknow, you're just a charitable
contribution to them.
Yeah, no.
Todd (27:38):
You don't get an expectation that you're just
going to give them money.
And uh yeah, we've done stufflike that with our kids too,
paying them to do jobs and stufflike that.
Jack (27:46):
Yeah, very good.
Todd (27:47):
So, and and another thing, just thinking about finances in
general, that's you know,teaching my kids about saving
and investing.
That was important.
That's a little bit outside ofthe scope of our conversation,
but uh teaching them to be goodwith their finances, that's I
think that's primo.
So being responsible for that.
Yeah.
So that's uh that's trainingthem when they're young.
(28:09):
Now, let's talk about learningto let go.
Now, assuming, let's talk twosides of this coin.
Assuming we've laid thegroundwork for a successful
launch, what does it look liketo make that transition from
teen at home to independentyoung adult?
Jack (28:25):
Yeah, it's uh well, there's a challenge from both
sides.
Obviously, the young adultchallenge is to uh be able to be
that self-sufficient,responsible, independent person.
And from the parent side, Ithink it is to make that make
that transition into uh you knowa new new situation in which
(28:52):
the kids are not the primaryfocus of of your relationship.
Because while they're at home,parents tend to be pretty kid
focused, okay, and we'reresponsible, and okay, what are
they doing tonight or where arethey going?
That all changes when they'veleft home and now they're
they're established.
Um it's you know, it can be atime of some sadness and grief
(29:16):
as you're uh you don't heartheir voices in the house
anymore, and that's that can bedifficult, but it's also an
opportune opportunity.
It's it's uh this uh kind of uhI think the Japanese symbol for
crisis is danger andopportunity.
So there's there's some dangerhere and there's some
(29:37):
opportunity.
What I found for my wife and Iwas the return of the ability to
be spontaneous, go out forpizza, do things together, take
some trips and stuff.
Because we didn't have that.
Okay, who's taking care ofkids?
Are they we gotta are theygonna be home tonight or not?
You know, when they were out ofthe house, we slept really.
(29:59):
Really well when came home fromcollege in the in the summer or
whatever, and they weren't homeat night, and then we weren't
sleeping very well.
So there's an out-of-sight,out-of-mind relief that I think
that uh goes with that.
Uh but it's there's sometransition here.
I think it's a greatopportunity for couples to
reinvent their marriage, tofocus on each other.
(30:22):
And okay, now we're we don'thave to be you know always
concerned about what's what'sgoing on with our kids.
I that's why I say it's alittle bit of a crisis because
there's some danger there.
If you've been so kid focused,it might be like, well, who are
you now?
We don't know each otheroutside of our ma and pa role.
(30:43):
Right.
And but and we have to kind ofreform our relationship at that
point in time.
So right.
Todd (30:50):
Might be time for some counseling for the parents.
Jack (30:52):
It's yeah.
Todd (30:53):
Yeah, some uh little boost there.
Jack (30:56):
Yeah, it's I mean it's a little bit of a risk.
There's a certain time of itwhere divorce takes place.
I've had parents say we'rewaiting for the kids to leave
and then we're gonna getdivorced.
So wow.
Which which is a shame, youknow.
Well, the problem's now, youknow.
Yeah.
Todd (31:12):
Yeah, that's tough.
Now now my daughter, she shewas the last I've got a son, one
son, one daughter.
Daughter, she's the last one,she's out of the house.
And there was that transition.
There's a little bit ofsadness, but yeah, then she
comes home for breaks and stufflike that.
It's nice whenever she's notthere to be able to just talk
(31:33):
without having to watch whatyou're saying, being able to you
don't have to think about okay,she had food.
Think just little things likethat, because you're always
concerned about your kids andwhether or not they're they've
gotten supper and things likethat.
So it's a weight lifted off.
Sure.
But at the same time, you'remissing them.
Jack (31:49):
So yeah, yeah, it's a it's a bittersweet kind of
experience in some ways.
Right.
Todd (31:56):
Yeah.
Yeah, and just complimenting mymy in-laws.
We were married up inAlexandria, Virginia area.
And after we got married, theparents never called us.
They left they hands off.
They didn't want to injectthemselves, they didn't want to
get in involved in and they justdidn't want to bother us.
And so my wife had to call themand say, you know, it's okay if
(32:16):
you if you call every now andthen.
And then they started invitingus for for dinner and things
like that.
Jack (32:22):
But uh Yeah, well, that's a bit, but it's you'd like you
like that kind of model ofhands-off, and I can I can't
remember my parents said, Okay,you're married now.
This is your primaryrelationship as your wife, not
our.
We're not the primaryrelationship.
So they stepped back and verymuch supported us as a couple.
(32:45):
So it was no longer this realprimary relationship with me.
The relationship was primaryrelationship with was with us as
a couple.
And that felt that was reallyvery affirming and supporting of
our marriage.
Todd (32:58):
So yeah, that's that's really good.
So the other side of the coinnow, assuming we haven't had or
we haven't laid the groundworkfor a successful launch, is it
possible as a parent to justmake a course correction?
And what does letting go looklike in in that scenario?
What are some of the notnecessarily bad stories, but
(33:19):
rocky situations that you'veencountered?
Jack (33:21):
Absolutely.
I worked with this couple, theyhad a 28-year-old son living at
home.
He actually had a pretty goodjob, but it was very
contentious.
And they were saying, It'stime, you know, this isn't
working well.
You don't appreciate, I justwant to keep your room clean and
this this and that, but you'rejust obviously unhappy here.
(33:42):
And the relationship wascontentious, particularly with
the father, too.
So he threatened them.
He said, Well, you kick me out,I'll never speak to you again.
You know, I threatened him withthat.
And so I I worked with him, andmy approach, it's interesting
you use the word path.
My approach is to help parentsand young adults just get a path
(34:04):
forward.
Because in s in most cases,they're both stuck.
The parents are stuck and notknowing what to do.
The young adult is stuckbecause they're afraid, they're
not sure you know how to moveforward in their lives.
So I interviewed a young adult,and then I interviewed this
young adult, and it turns outthat he was bullied as a kid.
And he had all this resentmentfrom his with his parents
(34:26):
because he didn't feel like theysupported him, that they were
they were really sensitive tohow damaging and upsetting this
was to him.
So I took that back to theparents and encouraged them to
write a letter of apology tohim.
And in in the case of themother, it was quite a nice
letter.
The father, I think, maybe toldhim personally just how in a in
(34:49):
a in a verbal exchange with himhow sorry he was he didn't see
that, and and if they could doit over again, they they would
have been much more supportiveof him.
Well then that changed, and andpretty soon he moved out with a
couple of uh friends living inan apartment.
I got a uh note from the whatwas a clip from the mother here
(35:10):
a few months ago showing him ata graduation for a two-year
computer science course,thanking the parents for always
being there for him.
You're always being there.
So I one of my practices that Iencourage parents to do is to
apologize, apologize.
Unless you're a perfect parent,then you then you're you're
(35:31):
you're excluded exempted fromthis.
I haven't found that personyet.
Nope.
It helps for the parent,because I think parents are the
I feel like the guiltiestsegment of our society.
I mean, most parents think,particularly if there's some
problems with your kids, well,what did I do wrong, or must
have been this, or that I didn'tdo this, or whatever.
(35:52):
So for the parents to be ableto just say, hey, I'm sorry, I
can't I I can't do it over.
Uh all I can do is say that I'msorry and I apologize for this.
So that that also has thepotential to soften the young
adult's anger or resentmenttoward the parent.
It can't be done to be sure youget that response from the
(36:16):
young adult, but it doestypically reduce some of that
anger, resentment that's goingon there.
And then I encourage parents toforgive themselves for this.
Yeah, one thing say apologize,and then just don't keep
carrying around, forgiveyourself for this.
Okay, there's nothing you cando other than forgive yourself.
(36:37):
And sometimes parents have toforgive their kids because the
kids have been really difficultor challenging or in a lot of
trouble or whatever, and theparents have some anger and
maybe resentment toward theirkids that they need to forgive
their kids in order to reallyestablish that positive
relationship that they want tohave with the kids as they
(36:59):
leave.
So right.
Todd (37:01):
Yeah, and I I appreciate what you say.
You talk about forgiveness as agift.
Jack (37:06):
Yeah.
Todd (37:07):
That's uh that's a loving approach, man.
I really appreciate that.
Jack (37:11):
Yeah, uh apology is the antidote to guilt, and
forgiveness is the antidote toresentment and anger.
So Wow, that's deep.
And they're they're both gifts,you know.
Todd (37:23):
Yeah.
Yeah, I've had to apologize toboth my kids for various things.
Jack (37:28):
Yeah.
Todd (37:29):
And uh one of you know, making my kid eat that hamburger
when he hated it.
So he kind of laughed about itthough.
He was like, Oh yeah, okay.
He said, I haven't reallythought about it, but uh
sometimes I felt better aboutthings.
Jack (37:44):
I was able to let things apologize to my son about
something he didn't evenremember it, you know.
So but again, it was somethingI was carrying around with me,
you know.
So that's a similar situation.
Todd (37:57):
So yeah, same.
Yeah, I appreciate so whatyou're alluding to here is that
you provide coaching servicesfor you know parents with kids
and smaller children and alsoparents, kids that have adults.
Um so you're doing work withboth of those demographics,
right?
Jack (38:12):
Yeah, it's well, it's mainly with a teen and young
adult demographic.
I I'm not so much working withparents with younger kids at
this point.
And I I do my work in Minnesotaas a licensed psychologist.
If I see parents outside ofMinnesota, I I do that as a
parent coach.
So it's got it, it's a littlebit different.
It's uh you know, one is moreof a therapeutic.
(38:34):
I I I would be able to do sometherapeutic work.
The other one is more of acoaching role.
Uh but that one, but thenthat's not covered by insurance,
so people would have to pay youknow privately for that.
But I do see a number of peopleoutside of Minnesota in that
coaching role.
So that's good.
Todd (38:54):
Yeah, well, that's a good place to uh talk about your
books.
Uh you've got a number of booksout there.
And uh what's the most recentone?
Can you talk about that?
Jack (39:03):
Well, uh I'll mention one older book, which is a shorter
one.
It's called Growing Apart.
Uh, and this is really one in aseries of six small books that
speak to these practices that Ithink parents need to strengthen
to launch their young adults.
So this is really about theperiod when they leave home and
(39:25):
how you need to kind of uhreinvent yourselves as a couple.
So that's now I took those sixsix practices, and I I wrote one
book, which is this one, theThe Parents Launch Code.
So it has all six of thesepractices, and and it describes
this process they use of helpingto create a path forward for
(39:48):
the parents and the young adultto work together in a
partnership way on a on adirection that the young adult
wants to go uh in terms of theirlaunch process.
Todd (40:00):
Yeah.
And uh I understand you're aman of faith.
How does your faith influenceor inform your approach to
parenting?
Jack (40:07):
Well, you know, the first practice that I talk parent I
talk to parents about, which isfound I say is foundational, is
that of communicatingunconditional love.
Love no matter what, and thatcreates a sense of security.
So that really comes right outof my experience of God's
unconditional love for me.
(40:27):
You know, and I think we asparents need to express that
same kind of love to our kidsthat creates this sense of
security that in their darkestmoments and times they know mom
and dad love them no matterwhat.
May not approve of behavior,but there's nothing that can
break that bond that exists.
And that's the that's themessage of the gospel, too.
(40:50):
Nothing can break the bond oflove there that we have in in
Jesus Christ.
So forgiveness, apology, Imean, those are very much rooted
out of my my Christianexperience.
You know, so uh a lot of it'snot explicit, I'm not it's not
written as an explicit bookabout those Christian
(41:12):
underpinnings, but they theyclearly are there, I think, if
if you're you know looking forthem.
Todd (41:19):
Yeah, universal truths.
So that's uh that's good.
Now, how do people get incontact with you?
Jack (41:25):
Well, my website is called parentslettinggo.com.
So they can go there and theycan get on my mailing list if
they want and uh check out mywebsite.
There's probably 150 blogs thatI've done there.
Usually, and they those blogsare written in response to
parents' issues that have comeup.
(41:46):
So they do um so it's it wouldbe hard for a parent to not find
something that they'restruggling with that I haven't
written about at one time oranother.
But you can get on the mailinglist.
I'm gonna probably I'm probablygonna do a webinar this fall
yet.
Uh, and I'll invite parents toattend that that would be just
going through my basic approachand and things that they can do
(42:10):
to uh you know be able tofacilitate a uh positive launch
of their kids.
Todd (42:17):
Excellent.
Yeah, I've I've gone to yourwebsite and just a testimonial
here from my side, there's justtons of parenting resources.
It's parentslettinggo.com.
And there's also an area.
Do you still do?
I saw an area where you canbook a 50-minute parent
consultation.
Do you still do those?
Jack (42:34):
Sure.
Perfect.
Sure.
That's the you can go backthere and you can uh just
connect to me and request thatconsultation.
So yeah.
Todd (42:43):
Okay.
Yeah.
And if uh if you're in theMinnesota area, he can provide
therapeutic services, but uhoutside of the case.
Yeah, so we'll put links in thedescription for his website and
also uh for the books that werementioned here.
But uh Jack, I appreciate yourtime.
It's been a good goodconversation, sir.
Jack (43:05):
Yeah, I enjoyed uh enjoyed talking with you about this.
Todd (43:07):
So yeah, same.
Now, just to my takeaways here,parenting, it's it's a tough
job, and they're we can't do italone.
I remember our our childrenwere born.
I just thought, I have no ideawhat I'm doing.
I remember driving my son homefrom the hospital for the first
time, just thinking, why arethey letting us do this?
Someone should have someoneshould teach me.
(43:30):
There should be a license orsomething, but there isn't.
And they just put the baby inthe car and went home.
And uh it's a tough job.
And many of us haven't reallyhad a good example of a parent,
but there are resources outthere, and we've got access to
coaches like Dr.
Stoltz was here to help us.
So check out his books, checkout his website, and uh sign up
(43:52):
for his newsletter and uh seekout the help that you need to
get better.
So thank you so much forlistening.
And if you enjoyed thisepisode, please consider leaving
a review, share it with yourfriends, and until next time,
we'll see you on the path.
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