Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
This is the Collective Resistance Podcast with your hosts, Leo and Fabiola.
Music.
We will be discussing why we find ourselves resisting the narratives of the
Common Collective, as well as why the Common Collective resists new information.
(00:33):
Fabiola, once again, I forget to unmute you. Yes. It might be because I'm so
disobedient and I don't let you lead.
I don't know about that. Okay. But, you know, we actually tried recording this podcast once before.
And you were... Leo didn't like it. I was not fairly happy with the output of the podcast.
(00:56):
So I wanted to do it over. I mean, I should say, I should say,
I didn't necessarily want to do it.
He does not want to do it. But you did put a lot of work into researching that.
And so we see, hey, let's see if we can salvage something. But,
you know, I think the core of what we were wanting to capture in the episode was around,
you know, an exchange that we had, actually specifically you really had with
(01:20):
a friend, a longtime friend, because, you know, that individual was really in
a tough place in their life.
And you were trying to share your truth around. My truth?
Oh, you're right. Did I say your truth? The truth. truth, the truth around Christ.
See, you know, you fall back into those old paradigms, and that's actually part
(01:42):
of what we're talking about today.
Yes. Because, you know, when you say the truth, that brings up people,
most people, including me, probably.
And the alarm bell goes in my head that says, you know, whatever's coming next, just tune it out.
(02:03):
You know, it's going to be judgmental. It's going to be like,
you're higher than thou.
And I don't know where this programming came from when it comes to when you
talk about the word truth.
You just, people just tune you out, especially when it has a,
(02:26):
what people also say, a religious connotation, right?
They'll say, I'm not religious, I'm spiritual.
But then when you talk about being spiritual, usually you're falling back on
the new age, which people will say, oh, no, it's not new age.
I don't even know what New Age is, but it is that idea that everybody is inherently.
(02:52):
Divine and good and everybody has their own beliefs that they make up as they go.
It's all about how they feel. It's all about how we feel.
It's all about following our hearts. and I think when it gets messy when everybody
has their own idea of what is truth,
(03:15):
what is love, and that's kind of why this episode is kind of fiery and hard
to record because when you're talking about love,
you'll hear the terms love is love everywhere, right?
Love is love And for people that propagate love is love, whenever you bring
(03:37):
up truth, it becomes this unloving thing.
We were just talking about Leo's. Leo now has a slightly... Should I talk about that?
Oh, no, no. Okay. I put on a little... I'll let Leo... I put on a little baby
(03:58):
weight. Think about that.
It's not a baby word. But there's no baby. There's no baby, right?
It's a dad bod, right? Isn't that what you call it? Dad bod?
Yeah. Okay, I thought you said a dead bod. Well, that's my accent.
No, but yeah, so a little bit of a dad bod. And you asked me,
I thought you were poking fun at me earlier.
(04:20):
And you said, what did you say exactly? You said, would you rather... Well, so...
I said, would you rather me tell you the truth of what you want to hear?
And it's a quote I heard some weeks ago. It goes like this.
When you want to help people, you tell them the truth.
(04:43):
When you want to help yourself, you tell them what they want to hear.
So I asked you, do you want me to tell you the truth?
Yeah, I told you I wanted you to tell me what I want to hear,
okay? Okay, I'm Adonis. Okay.
Adonis. I mean, you're still very handsome, don't get me wrong.
But I was just pointing out that from my observation from an outsider,
(05:09):
because you're having some health struggles yourself, they're scaring you a little bit.
And I noticed that those started coming about when your dead bod,
is that how you say it? Say it for me. My dead bod.
It sounds the same to me yeah just about yes
when that started developing okay
(05:33):
well i'm wearing black now it's very slimming uh-huh
very slimming although we just heard on our last episode we published with mike
shreve that you need more transitional colors no well that's right that's right
i'm kind of blending and here we did it again we were although mike is a professional Yeah,
(05:53):
that's right. We are amateurs.
But anyways, we're talking about love, and then we're talking about truth.
And biblically speaking, okay, so if we all have our truth, and we all have
our own standards, how do we live in the world in a coherent way?
(06:14):
Right, because we have laws, we have the justice system, and we can't even agree
on certain laws because there's no, you know, I just heard the other day.
From a Republican woman, strong Republican woman, because we were at a fair.
And she was talking about the vice president coming in, right,
(06:37):
that was just selected. What is his name, Leo? Parable with names.
Walls is his last name. I can't think of Tom Walls. I can't think of his first
name. Yeah, or Tim Walls. Tim Walls, I think, yeah. He was the governor of Minnesota.
Minnesota, and how he made a mess of Minnesota. And then here we have Kamala, which is Kamala.
I don't even know. How do we describe Kamala? I don't think she can be described.
(07:00):
I think she's indescribable. She's the indescribability of what is being indescribable.
Yes. So she was relating to me, and we're right next to a Democratic booth there with some women.
And Kamala is pro-choice, right?
And if we talk about biblical standards and God's standards,
(07:24):
and we're not talking about everybody's standards.
You know, taking a life as a life from the womb to the tomb is the same.
All life is precious. Like all of us are precious because we've all been created in the image of God.
And of course, there's that debate of when does life begin? And we believe life begins at conception.
(07:47):
So therefore, you know, we got to consider that life forming there.
But apparently Apparently Minnesota has passed a bill under when Tim Walz was
the governor there that it's okay to abort a baby up to the time of birth.
And then they further enhanced the bill to be like right after birth.
It's like the mother really doesn't want this baby. She can just leave it out and let it, you know.
(08:13):
Let it die. And she was just, you know, talking to those other Democratic women.
How can you support a political party that is, you know, pro that kind of, you know.
Anyways, the argument is weird. But going back to the whole truth,
you know, the truth and love.
(08:34):
You didn't hear the answer? I didn't. Because she went over to the other booth
and she started talking. And I was I was on my shift on my own booth at a fair.
So and she never came back to tell me.
And there were there was no screaming or anything, you know.
Oh, yeah. They were fine with whatever.
But again, is the law the standard? Because law, the justice system,
(08:59):
even though it mirrors the justice of God in the Bible, right? We will all be judged.
All of us, every single one of us are going to be judged because we all make
mistakes. We all missed the mark.
If all of us are going to be judged, but then we have these laws and men are
making these laws and we don't have a standard, then it is this mess where one
(09:23):
state now has to decide, okay, what are we going to do about abortion?
Or another state is going to decide what are they going to do. It's all over the place.
And when do we really figure out, okay, how can we all come to a consensus? And we can't.
And the reason we can't is there's this cancer, this disease of,
(09:49):
you know, idolatry of ourselves and what we think and how we feel and what we believe love is.
And that's why I think in this podcast overall, we always done our best to go back to definitions.
Okay. And so if the Bible is the centers, first we had the marriage was between
(10:09):
a man and a woman. and it was based on the Bible and God's law, right?
And now we are all over the place, and we started there all over the place.
Now we don't even know, with the whole gender, what is what,
who is who, because it's all so subjective.
And I wanted to share, since we're talking about love and truth,
(10:32):
the biblical definition of what's love.
And so Leo is going to bring that up.
Well, yeah, everybody, it's familiar. This is 1 Corinthians 13,
4-8, and a very popular wedding verse, you will all be reminded,
but it says, Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast,
(10:53):
it is not proud, it does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking,
it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs, love does not delight
in evil, but rejoices with the truth.
Can you say that again? Say what? It rejoices with the truth.
Rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes,
(11:17):
always perseveres. Love never fails, but where there are prophecies, they will cease.
Where there are tongues, they will be stilled. Where there is knowledge, it will pass away. way.
So there you have it. You know, if you want a standard and our creator knows
(11:38):
everything, knows how everything is supposed to work because he designed it.
Now, we do have free will playing there for creation to be perfect.
There needs to be free will going back to our episode, the death of ourselves.
We have choice if we're going to adopt God's standards or if we're going to.
(12:03):
Idolize ourselves and choose ourselves and therefore move on with your own standards.
So as Leo said, the reason for this episode was we lost some friends, I want to say,
friends that actually we had some pretty deep spiritual conversations with before
(12:23):
we were born again and after.
And because we don't really have that.
Commonality anymore believing that everybody's truth
is acceptable which really is
a lie right yeah i don't even know that we had that
belief i i i think it i had that did you have that belief say that i can say
(12:47):
okay i believe that whatever i believe my beliefs created my reality so there
you go so i would have to change them to match my reality so if i wanted more
money i wanted and more abundance,
I would make some mental gymnastics, right?
God is out of the equation, obviously, because I'm trying to create it on my
(13:08):
own. I'm trying to be my own creator.
I would come up with some belief, and I really subscribed, I want to say,
decades, a decade and a half ago, we took the Landmark Forum courses,
and I remember hearing this quote there, that life is empty and meaningless.
(13:29):
It's kind of their tagline. They said it over and over again.
Yeah. Well, we're at the course, and it was like the last day, I think.
I didn't think it was the last day. I thought it was throughout the whole thing.
To me, it was like she was trying to wrap it up. Oh, okay, okay.
And she says, and again, see my truth here too. Right, right. How do we remember?
(13:52):
She said, life is empty and meaningless. Right.
And after that, we took other courses, right? Life courses. We were really into that stuff.
And it said again, like, just go with your belief.
We all make it up. That was the big thing on our follow-up courses. We all make it up anyway.
(14:12):
And therefore, it's all about how you feel. And if you believe that life is
empty and meaningless, the idea there was, I mean, people could interpret different ways, right?
People could be really depressed about that. But the message for me in that
course is that from there, you can create anything.
Life could be anything, right? But again, you're putting yourself at that subjective
(14:34):
position where like you are creating it and then Lee was creating it as well.
But when our creations don't collide, what does... I mean, they don't merge.
They don't merge. They do collide. They collide.
And that's where broken marriages happen. Yeah, yeah. And broken friendships, too. Yeah.
(14:57):
I keep coming back. I keep remembering one of the first episodes of Seinfeld.
George, who's one of the main characters, George Costanza, a lot of you will be familiar.
He was never very successful with the ladies, so he would make up a lot of stories,
you know, about who he was in order to get dates and stuff.
And I remember Jerry was checking him on his story and he said,
(15:20):
Jerry, it's not a lie if you believe it.
Yeah so it's all about whatever you believe goes but just going back to the the original,
the original inspiration for this episode these friendships that we had with
people that we really care about and that we really love and we wanted to share
(15:44):
you know god's truth with them And they,
I guess, they took it in a way, they took it in a way of judgment.
Well, I mean, isn't it interesting because we've dealt with tons of different topics on the podcast.
And because again, that was kind of the back end or the B-side theme of the
(16:08):
show is kind of the seeking of truth, right?
Yes, we've been seeking all over the place. Where can we find truth, right?
It's typically not in the mainstream. So it must be elsewhere.
So let's go looking for it. And so, you know, a lot of these topics,
you know, whether it's cryptocurrency, you know, Virology.
(16:29):
Virology, vaccines, all this stuff, whatever it is, you could have conversations
with people and they would sometimes be challenging conversations because,
you know, you're challenging...
Paradigms that have existed for a long time, you know, like virology and whatnot.
Yeah, like germ theory being one. Yeah, yeah.
But still, you could have this conversation because it was like,
(16:54):
oh, okay, but at the end of the day... But could we really?
Well, I mean, I did. I had conversations with lots of people, you know. Oh, I had.
Yeah. And that's why I feel like... You were a lot more personal with it.
I was like, look, take it or leave it.
I'm just telling you you where i'm at you know what i mean this is
where i mean this is what the maybe that's where men really shine yeah
(17:15):
well we're i think we're much more objective you
know what i mean i'm not gonna say with everything but i'm saying we're
much more objective we're like oh there's some
people are gonna be offended well that's okay isn't that
what we're really trying to do we're trying to we're trying to push push
say love is love yeah but you know i i've always been willing like i it was
(17:35):
funny because i was thinking about that conversation with the friend that you
had and how that really did the latest one well just the just the whole series
you know what i mean there were there was a long series back and forth and and
you know and and that person,
you know responded very poorly and and really in a surprising manner too which
we can we can get in without getting into specifics just getting in you know
(17:59):
the tone it was very you know how could Could you, you know,
how could you come to me with this, this,
this data after all we've shared and I've shared with you about who I am, you know, this is.
Well, it was basically come, came back to, to judgment, right?
Yeah, yeah. Like I am pointing out that, you know, none of us are divine,
(18:22):
but then it turned into me saying that she was not divine. Right, right. Right.
And as me at judgment. So, okay, so we just did the definition of love.
Now, the definition of judgment. Let's think about judgment.
And so here I am talking about Leo's belly. Back to that again.
(18:46):
Leo's body changing. And then he's like all up in arms. How can you?
No, I was just, I was acting that way. I was, you know, I was really.
He gets the pillow. He's like covering his face and like, how can you say that?
And I said, okay, so this is not a judgment. This is just...
(19:08):
It's a fact. Yeah. Just look at that.
So a judgment would be, do you want to talk about the analogy with the speed limit sign?
Well, I mean, you said stating a fact is that there are speed limit signs.
Yeah. So if you're driving on the highway, let's say I'm driving with Leo and
he loves to comment on my driving.
(19:30):
I don't know if any other lady out there can relate. late.
But, you know, like the speed limit is 60 and I'm going 75.
You know, he's just pointing out, hey, you were going over the speed limit. It's not a judgment.
They're recommending that the most ideal speed on this road is 60.
(19:53):
Yeah. A judgment would be, you know, here is what you did And here's a consequence.
So a cop pulls me over and he tells me, well, the speed limit is 60. You're going 75.
Here is the ticket or here. And I can go to court.
And then a judge over there is going to wait the evidence.
(20:15):
And then he's going to tell me, OK, this is you really speeding here.
It sounds like for all witnesses' accounts, you were speeding,
and therefore, here's your ticket.
And therefore, it's another fine for you wasting my time trying to argue with
the fact that you're speeding.
So there comes my judgment with the consequence of, you know,
(20:38):
you pay the fine, or maybe if you're more disrespectful and you argue more, maybe you end up in jail.
Yeah. You know, so that's the consequence. But here we are, you know,
sharing the gospel, which is the good news.
The good news is.
And people choosing to label that as a judgment, and that is our judgment,
(21:02):
because we are just being obedient.
The messenger. Yeah, we're being the messenger. Don't shoot the messenger.
But we're losing these friendships because people are feeling judged,
where what we're trying to do is love that person.
So going back to love is love, right?
(21:22):
It's love according to you, because I can't read your mind. I can't read your
mind, Leo. if you think it's unloving for me to say now you have a belly.
Yeah, no, and I didn't. I was not, again, I was being playful with it.
But I'm just giving an example. Well, it's a great example because that could
just as easily go another way with another couple.
Yeah. You know what I mean? Or with anyone.
(21:44):
Yeah, yeah. You know, someone like you go to the doctor and you're overweight
and you have all these health problems, let's say, you know,
and then the doctor points out, okay, your BMI is really high.
And of course, there's debates on is the BMI really a correlation to your health
issues or not because how it is calculated.
(22:07):
But again, the doctor is pointing out, okay, your BMI is high.
And here is the scientific reasons that show you how you have all these health problems.
And then you're going to be offended because of your appearance when they're
really pointing Pointing out, okay, like, this is not how your body is designed
to function, right? No, I agree. I agree.
(22:30):
It's just, you're just saying, again, like back to the speed limit analogy,
you're saying, hey, you know, it doesn't say that on the sign for no reason.
You know, the sign didn't just grow out of the ground, you know.
Right. They're saying, this is what is that we want, no more than this.
And we know that the chances of people driving safely are best on this type
(22:54):
of road, are best at this speed.
So again, you may drive better than that, but they're like, look,
we can't, like to your point, we can't just let everybody dictate what speed they drive.
It just doesn't work because if we're all going different speeds,
then it ends up creating more problems because the road can't support us all doing it.
(23:15):
We have to all kind of be doing pretty much the same thing, you know,
otherwise it doesn't work. So are you going to say that the speed limit sign
is a judgment against you?
Because this is how it really has felt as we have shared the message is that
we're pointing out the speed limit sign. And we're pointing at the speed limit
(23:35):
sign is on that road for everyone that drives on that road.
It's not just for old ladies or young ladies or everyone.
There aren't multiple signs. Exactly. If you're a white male, you can go 110.
There's no multiple signs. I mean, this is silly.
And I know a man decided, okay, or a group of men decided, or women,
(23:59):
a group of humans decided, okay, what is the safety speed limit on that?
But, you know, at the end of the day, number one, I can certainly get into the head of our friend.
You know, I've been there probably, maybe not as upset about it.
(24:20):
You know, like me, I really feel like I can converse about anything,
you know, anything somebody wants to bring to my attention, even if it's something
that I've already formed an opinion, maybe even a negative opinion about.
You know, I'm more than willing to sit down and talk about it and say,
okay, well, what are the merits that you see? What do you think I'm missing?
(24:43):
You know, what are the aspects of this you don't think I'm getting?
And then, you know, it's just like what we've done on this podcast.
You know, you let people make their case. And I think we've had a lot of people
on here that have made many different cases.
And sometimes you and I are at the end going, okay, yeah, that was interesting.
That gave me some pause. I want to think about that more. Sometimes we've gotten
(25:03):
at the end of this, and some were like, whoa, okay.
I had no idea that was going to go there. We don't have too many of those,
but I mean, we have a handful of them that were like, you know, that was pretty wild.
But I mean, at the end of the day, let's let the ideas come out.
Let's talk about them. And so like in the case of this friend,
(25:24):
you know, you were sharing your honest feelings and you were doing that because
you- Well, I wasn't really— Not feelings.
Your honest information, okay?
Yes. From, you know, I came—I know it's a 180.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. From what I used to believe, it really is,
(25:47):
because I do believe now objective truth does exist, and there's got to be a standard.
And I do believe the Bible, being the Word of God, is the gold standard,
is the touchstone, as we talked about in our last episode.
And so you were trying, if we're saying love is love, but love is truth,
(26:08):
you know, sharing the truth, that's the objective truth.
And that's where I'm coming from. And I feel like the path that you're going
is leading you to destruction.
It is a lot easier for me to say what she wants to hear because I don't want
to be uncomfortable. Then what?
I'm doing that for me. I'm not doing that for her because I don't want to get
(26:31):
into an argument. I don't want her to cut me out like it happened.
She hasn't been the only one that cut me out, but it won't speak to me anymore.
And my friendship for me are more than 10 years where we basically shared everything.
I mean, I shared everything at least.
And a friend that I deeply love and then turn around, she just felt judged and
(26:58):
she felt like she can't be my friend anymore.
So would you like to share that quick clip?
Yeah, let me see here real quick if I can share my screen to do that.
Let's hope that this works.
You might want before you share, just minimize all the other.
Well, you can just share individual screen. screen so oh
(27:20):
you're so smart all right
so this is pen gillette of pen
and tell everybody's familiar with that pen's pretty outspoken dude
and he's an atheist but he's got an interesting point about devout religious
people okay yeah i don't think it's proselytizing proselytizing well he just
(27:41):
doesn't believe god exists right right right but he's got an interesting point
He believes in the impossibility that nothing created everything.
Yeah. Well, let's see what he says here. And I've always said,
you know, that I don't respect people who don't proselytize.
If you believe that there's a heaven and hell and people could be going to hell,
and you think that, well, it's not really worth telling them this because it
(28:04):
would make it socially awkward.
And atheists who think that people shouldn't proselytize, just leave me alone,
keep your religion to yourself. How much do you have to hate somebody to believe
that everlasting life is possible and not tell them that?
If I believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that a truck was coming at you and
you didn't believe it, there's a certain point where I tackle you.
And this is more important than that. And Penn's right. Ask Chris.
(28:27):
Yeah, so he makes an— You can stop sharing now. Oh, yeah, let me stop sharing.
And, and I think this was the point, and this was actually something that,
that I did not see, you know, prior to all this, this happening was that,
you know, when people are doing that, I think you often just see like,
oh gosh, look, you're just, you're just trying to ram your, your,
your beliefs down somebody else's throat.
(28:49):
And it's like, no, look, if you, if you've really come to the realization that
this is the absolute truth, you know, then, then how much do you have to dislike that?
Another person? I mean, he uses the word, I think, hate. How much do you have
to hate another human being to not share that with them?
And there was another clip from another curbside preacher, and he was talking
(29:15):
to somebody. He said, I'm just worried.
What happens if it goes the way that I believe it will go?
And then I go up to heaven, and then I'm passing Bob and John that I used to
go to lunch with at work, you know, and then they're hanging back, right?
They're not going where I'm going. And they're like, hey, you know,
(29:37):
Bill, why didn't you share that with me?
You know, I don't understand. We went to lunch all those times.
I didn't even know you were Christian, you know? And so it's a fantastic point.
And I think that, you know, as I was raised in in Catholicism,
and I didn't even really realize this until recently, was that my faith was
(30:00):
very much just this thing about me.
And really, I don't even think it was about God. It was about me and how I relate to God.
Your relationship with God. And I think that people get hung up on that a lot.
Because yes, you could be seeking the love of God.
(30:22):
We talked about the love of God on our last episode. There's seekers.
We're always seeking. We have a worshiping nature.
And you have multiple religions everywhere, right?
In different countries, different places, where.
If people truly are seeking God, and then they think they found God,
(30:47):
but we know the enemy is deceptive, right?
He masquerades as an angel of light, and you think you found God,
but then you have no touchstone to compare what you found with the God of the Bible.
Yeah, well, and I think in our search, and we've looked at so many different
(31:10):
things, and a lot of it we haven't necessarily done podcast episodes about,
but we've looked at so many different, you know, spiritual avenues and stuff.
And then we've done some pretty out there stuff, you know, like we talked about
maybe doing an episode on John of God.
We've got some... Which we've been to.
We've been to. And there's a bunch of other stuff as well. And we saw that all
(31:32):
of these things seemed like they just kept bucketing back to this deception.
Yeah. Well, it's what happened to me before we went to John of God.
It was that I was at a very tough spot in my life as a mother,
because as a mother, my children are everything to me.
(31:54):
Like, I do anything for them.
And like, you know, most mothers out there, I would say, you know,
99% of the mothers out there would do anything,
and so I was at a point where we had our oldest with a diagnosis of autism,
and then we had our middle child with a congenital disease that needed surgery,
(32:19):
and that we almost lost because the medical system kind of neglected us.
And so it was hard.
It was a huge burden. And I felt like, I can't do this on my own. I can't do this on my own.
And I decided to start going to church. And I started going to a Christian church.
And, you know, not all churches I made it equal, but I had a friend that went
(32:41):
there and I decided, okay, I'm going to give this a try. Sounds good.
And so I'm going to this church that has amazing music, amazing production.
They had a great band. Great, great band.
Every time I get to this church, I just start bawling and I have no idea why.
Now I know that's called contrition, but back then I didn't know.
(33:02):
And so I'm crying. Leo's looking at me like, why are you crying?
What's wrong with this woman? I mean, it's just been, it had been a really tough year.
And that was 2011, 2012.
And so, but they never opened the Bible one time.
And I grew up in the Catholic faith, same way.
(33:22):
We didn't read the Bible because we believe it was hard to understand what the Bible said.
And you couldn't read it on your own. You need to, you know,
you need to mediate it like a priest between you and God or a saint or something
like that. And they would take care of it. You didn't have to worry about it.
So I didn't know the word. and so one day I'm praying, okay,
like I'm praying, which I think I'm praying to God and I'm praying to Jesus
(33:46):
and I say surrender and that in 2012,
okay, it took me a long time to get where I'm at, but I distinctly heard this
voice and you might say, okay, I'm crazy, schizophrenia, whatever,
but I distinctly had this experience of hearing a voice.
When I asked God, I asked Jesus, I was ready to surrender. What would you like me to do?
(34:10):
So I'm here at your service.
And the response I heard back was, you don't need to follow me.
You do what you want to do.
And so here I have this experience, you know, that was tangible to me.
And I'm like, oh my gosh, gosh, that sounds amazing. That's great.
(34:32):
So I am the, you know, I'm writing my destiny, you know, whatever I think.
And so that led me down the path of the new age.
That led me down the path of going to a healer, John of God,
if you haven't heard of John of God.
Again, we'll do an episode on him. He's now... He's serving,
I think, a life sentence. No, I think he's... Last time I checked, he was in house arrest.
(34:55):
Okay. Oh, really? Okay. Yes, a really corrupted man.
We went there with guides that I had found.
So there were all these synchronicities that happened after that,
where I found someone in the middle of the country that actually took people
to John of God, like a week later.
Everything lined up. I bring my husband, my two children, and myself down to the middle of nowhere.
(35:23):
Okay, we can't give away all the goods, okay? We got to save it for the episode.
But just know that it was not, it turned out to. Yeah.
Yeah. I had all kinds of experience. But anyway, we, you know,
years later, somebody tells us that he's now being charged with.
Rape. Rape. Yeah. Child trafficking, embezzlement. One of the whistleblowers was killed.
(35:45):
One of the, was suicided. Yeah. One of the whistleblowers was suicided.
I think it was the whistleblower, actually.
So here I am believing this experience, believing in my heart.
I have a relationship with Jesus. I have a relationship with God.
And then 13 years later, start reading the Bible and figure out,
(36:07):
oh, my gosh, that was not the right God, the right Jesus.
And I devoted 13 years of my life and that path, I believe it was a spiritual
path and it was pure deception.
And I was headed for destruction, right? Because you can't have eternal life
with God if you're not choosing God and if you don't know who God is.
(36:29):
And people will say, well, you know, why does it hurt for me to believe that
God is love and for me to believe that love is love?
Well, I mean, we need to step back, just like with virology,
where we need to look at the studies and see how they deem what isolation of
(36:49):
a virus is. How is it defined?
Go back to definitions. That's what the justice system does.
They have their dictionary of their definitions of what things are going back
to the definitions and being like, oh,
okay, this is, this is not, I mean, someone else can portray Fabiola in a specific
way and say, this is Fabiola.
(37:11):
This is how she is. This is what she does. This is what she does for a living.
And they could be completely misrepresenting me.
You know, like who would appreciate that? Would you appreciate someone describing
you that you are all love, like that's your only attribute, and then in the
word love, if you substitute,
(37:31):
is whoever's talking about their own idea of what love is,
you know, doing good or...
Well, and I think that, again... You wouldn't appreciate that.
There's a lot of this cross-marketing, right? We're talking about love is love
and we're talking about something as simple as,
okay, somebody is a Buddhist or a
Hindu or then you've got people in same-sex marriages or relationships and you've
(37:55):
got people who want to identify as not having a gender and then people want
to identify as animals or even inanimate objects.
I mean, we're seeing a real push of this where there is no definition.
I mean, love is love is just acceptance of everything.
(38:20):
Well, for them. For them. But what I'm saying is that...
I think we're all... And affirming, right?
You're affirming. Yeah, you're affirming it. So you have to actually participate...
In the lie that they're telling themselves. In the delusion.
And so that's where it's getting a lot different very quickly.
And so we're all seeing that. And then even in our community,
(38:43):
we see a lot of people who are saying, okay...
Even people who might be... They might consider themselves pretty liberal-minded.
You know, they're saying, okay, yeah, this is just, you know,
a bridge too far, you know, but yet nobody's quite, you know,
connecting the dots that, okay, look, you know, there's got to be a moral code.
There's got to be one that is written on our heart that we know is the truth.
(39:10):
It can't be this feeling thing. It's like, it's like driving in Montana.
You just go as fast as you want to go, you know, and there are crosses.
All over Montana for where people have beefed it on the highway.
Okay. You know, it's just, they don't care because there's not that many people
living in the state, so they don't want to pay for all the signs.
(39:31):
Yeah. So I want to share the quick experience because there we talk about love
is love, but let's say love is love.
And let's say, you know, affirming someone, what is the harm, right?
I think that there's even in the gender ideology and the DEI,
this idea that it's a spectrum, right? Gender is a spectrum now. It's fluid.
(39:57):
Like one day you can feel more male, the other day you can feel more female or whatever.
It's hijacking that from the
neurodiversity spectrum too, which we believe it's environmental as well.
I mean, your head is not separated from your body, okay?
It's all one and the body's supposed to work together. So if there's something
(40:20):
off mentally, you better believe there's something off physiologically also.
I truly believe that. Yeah, no, I mean, we have experienced that firsthand.
Yeah, firsthand, where you start addressing the physiology and then all of a
sudden the mental stuff goes away.
Yeah. You know, just magically. I mean, we have a child that was diagnosed with
(40:42):
autism and now recovered.
But anyways, we had this experience in our last trip.
We went camping and our youngest wanted to get her ears pierced.
And so we go to a tattoo shop.
This is in Canada, too far from us.
And it was interesting. It was a very confusing experience because we get there
(41:05):
one day and they said, well, she, the person that does the piercing will be here tomorrow.
Okay. So you guys just come tomorrow, bring your documents or whatever,
and she will be able to do it.
And I was like, okay, great. So it was a lady.
Yay. hey, you know, I felt immediately comfortable with my little one,
(41:25):
okay, as a lady who's going to be, you know, caring and not saying that men
are not caring, but I do prefer if somebody's going to be poking my child that it's a woman.
I don't know. Just hope nobody's offended by that.
So then the next day we go in and we get there and we talk to the attendant
again, same attendant I talked to the previous day and said, he is here.
(41:47):
Oh i was like oh okay i must have misunderstood that
it was a lady so i'm like oh okay but i mean
we're there our child wants to do it she's hardcore she's ready even though
she thinks you're young for your piercings but oh okay so then we're like okay
it's a he we fill out the paperwork we wait and then all of a sudden this person
(42:12):
that's supposed to do the service
clearly clearly is a woman is
a woman i mean i don't think i i think 99,999 people out of out of 100,000 sounds
like a woman she had a mask on so that was a little hard to but she had hair
she had hair that looked like a woman's hairstyle body you know that even the clothes even though.
(42:36):
She was wearing dark clothes the clothes look like more feminine yeah more feminine
and And so anyways, we go back to get the service done. I go by myself.
Because we didn't want to take five people back to the little cubicle they were
doing. Yes, I wish the spiritual leader was there.
So we get back there and then I'm trying to calm my daughter.
(43:01):
And I keep referring to the person that's doing the service as she,
because I don't know her name.
And then all of a sudden I hear this whisper through the mask because she's wearing the mask.
And I think she's saying he correcting me because she identifies as a boy,
(43:24):
she said. It wasn't even a man.
It was a boy. This is this grown woman all of a sudden telling me she's a boy.
And my daughter looking at me like completely confused. What is she saying?
And she is getting ready to pierce my child's ear. Here, and here I am trying
(43:45):
to lie, basically, to my child.
Yeah, because our daughter wants to know what's happening. And so you're trying
to explain to her what's going on, yet our daughter has no even fathoming that this is a man.
Yeah. Okay, you know what I mean? She's like, okay, it's a woman.
(44:06):
And she's almost like, okay, she's saying she's a boy.
So maybe, maybe she's a boy. Wait, my daughter was so confused.
Use it's like it was like a whole situation it was like a who's on first routine
right because it's like it's like uh who's upset he's upset who's he there's
not a he in here what are you talking about she she no don't call me don't call
me it was so surreal and confusing so.
(44:28):
At one point i kept trying because i
was being selfish when you when you want to
help yourself and i just wanted to get out of that situation okay
forget about you know who's the
male who's a female I just went out of there because
the this woman okay she has a
sticker on her cupboard there
(44:51):
saying love is love and she's very upset with me and then she she in the end
you know just calls me like the cis woman or you know just labels me and and
I truly I told her here I am not I'm trying to disrespect you here.
You know, I'm sorry.
(45:12):
You know, I'm sorry. You're a boy. And I even tried to say he.
And I just couldn't do it because it just automatically came as a she because
I didn't know her name. I almost asked her name.
And maybe that would have been easier. But anyways, I wanted to leave.
My daughter was like, no, I'm ready to do this.
(45:34):
So here we are. This woman is clearly upset with me.
She was very professional. Don't
get me wrong. I mean, she did a fantastic job, but she was very upset.
And she almost kicked me out of her area. She said that.
And I'm like, okay, if love is love, why are you being so hateful toward me?
Here I am with a child. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Why are you being so hateful? Yeah.
(45:59):
You know, threatening to kick me out of your establishment or even your front
desk people think you're a woman, obviously, because they told me you were she,
and then all of a sudden you're saying a he.
And so, so anyway, here's, we're in this confusion.
People think just, I mean, we have a child, a boy with long hair, really long hair.
(46:21):
He still has a baby face. everybody thinks he's a
girl yeah every waiter we ever go
in they they always think it's a girl they go
what would she like what what is her favorite dessert or
you know it's always and we well he it's a boy yeah
and he could give a shit he doesn't care he's like
whatever i just want my food he doesn't feel offended you know
(46:43):
and it this is a child and here we have a grown woman
offended i didn't call her a
boy wants to kick wants to kick a mother and
a six-year-old girl out of her chair
we are not affirming the lie when i knew that that wasn't the loving thing to
do but at the same time i didn't really want to go through the hassle whatever
(47:06):
you want me to call you okay as long as we get this done we get out of here
yeah so i wasn't being loving so even And so,
but then when it comes to my friends and my close relationships,
I want them to understand, and this is why we're doing this episode.
If you ever get to hear this episode, we want you to understand we're doing
(47:28):
this because we truly love you.
We're coming from that place of love, wanting for you, because we all know this
life, you're temporary.
We all know that, right? Can we agree on that?
Damn straight. Right? Nobody is resurrecting.
As far as we have seen, only Jesus resurrected.
(47:48):
And I know some people can argue on that, but historically, if you dig in a
little bit, we could even do an episode on that.
Only Jesus resurrected. And if he resurrected and he came representing the Father,
and if he is Lord, John 1, 1, in the beginning, that was the word and the word
was with God and And the word was God.
(48:08):
If Jesus is God, he came to die for our disobedience, you know,
by missing the mark, by sin. People have a problem with this word sin.
Okay, and all this word means is missing the mark.
Who in the world can say that they're perfect?
Well, and this was the point we were talking about before, that really this goes for a lot of words.
(48:31):
You know, hell, sin, wrath. You know, these are very, these have been marketed
to us as very dramatic words, you know what I mean?
And some are more dramatic than others. Yeah, I mean, you can see the wrath
of God when Jesus was on the cross, okay?
That was the example of the wrath.
And, you know, he did it to his son, right?
That was perfect, sinless, blameless, and came to pay the fine,
(48:57):
you know, pay our debts, do it for us.
He did it for us, for free.
He suffered on the cross.
So whatever we think it's going horribly in our lives, it does not come close
to comparing to what Jesus did for us.
And three days later, he resurrected, ascended to heaven, left our helper, the Holy Spirit, right?
(49:24):
So, I mean, for us to kid ourselves and think that we're divine,
I mean, it's just, I mean, if you really think about it, come on, really think about it.
How can you be divine with all the problems we have in the world?
It can't be. There like isn't a single institution that isn't broken and corrupted.
(49:45):
You know what I mean? I was just thinking about it. We were watching the clips
of the Olympics, and it's like, look, here is even this thing that's just supposed
to be here to witness God's perfection of the human body.
What can man accomplish when you put it to the test?
And when you practice. And you practice, and you really try to...
(50:07):
And you are persistent, and yeah.
What can that body accomplish? And, you know, the Olympics we saw in the opening
ceremonies, it was just a mockery, which we've seen it be a mockery before,
you know, I think of the 2012 and even the 2008 Olympics opening ceremonies, just really just.
It's total mockery of—I can't even go into it because it's such a long topic,
(50:32):
but if you're ever bored, go look at them.
You know, what we saw this year with them poking fun at the Last Supper, and again,
you don't have to be a believer in Christianity, but it's like,
what does putting the human body to the test have to do with mocking the Last
Supper? I just don't understand.
What does it have to do with it? It doesn't have anything to do.
(50:54):
Or having children next to a naked man. Man, yeah, with his testicles hanging out.
It just, it doesn't make any sense. And this is that point I was trying to make
earlier, is that we see that there is a concerted effort.
There is clearly an evil, okay, that is trying to pick apart the fabric of society
so that it continues to deteriorate.
(51:17):
Yet we are really obtuse to the fact that there is this book that really has
these answers, these fantastic answers, and it even tells us that this is going to happen.
You know, that don't be too surprised, this is going to happen.
We're giving you this opportunity. I mean, it's weird.
(51:37):
Jesus is giving you this opportunity to put your faith in him and live to the best of your ability.
Really do what the Olympics are trying to do for the body.
Do that with how you live your life. You know, you show up every day knowing
that sometimes you're going to miss the mark.
Maybe you're going to miss the mark more often than you're not,
but you have to have that as a goal, and there's got to be that moral standard.
(52:01):
Otherwise, we're all just going different speed limits, and we're running into
each other, and it's just a freaking mess, you know?
And so anyway, I mean, I know this is kind of maybe be starting to...
But let's talk about the words, though.
You said, so sin being, when you talk about sin, people automatically put the guard up.
(52:24):
Like if you're judging them, when it's just a speed limit sign and we are all
to abide to the rules or there will be consequences.
Right? So missing the mark, sin missing the mark, we all do it. We all do it.
That's why we needed a savior. And it's liberating.
It's liberating to know that we're not divine.
(52:46):
Okay? That we don't have that responsibility.
Okay? Okay, that we have a fallen nature and it's just what it is.
It doesn't have to be this offensive thing to realize that we have limitations
and that we make bad choices.
Like we tell the kids, you made bad choices. So sin been one word.
(53:08):
The other word that people get so offended about is the word hell.
Like you're going to destruction. And Leo even coined a term here.
Do you want to talk about that? Well, I just said, I mean, I just think it's
interesting when you talk about hell, it's really got a charged meaning,
you know? So, I mean, it's crazy.
(53:28):
I mean, we don't exactly know what hell is. We've not been there.
We have no idea. We know what it's not, which is we know that it's not a place with God.
So we know it is a godless place.
So if we just look at it from that perspective, we don't bring all the marketing
in like the hell or like the fire and brimstone and the pools of liquid hot magma and whatever.
(53:54):
Or what the biggest objection people bring up, you know, how could a loving
God send someone to hell?
Or what about the people that never heard the gospel in the world?
There could be people, I mean, I can speak for every situation, right?
But what about the people that never heard the the gospel? Are they going to go to hell?
(54:17):
And what about the loving God sending you to hell?
And I think we see that from our human perspective, right?
Like almost judging the one that created everything, which sounds absurd.
I mean, God knows our hearts, right? He created us. He knows every hair in our
(54:39):
head, every cell in our body.
How can we think that we know better than God? I mean, His justice is perfect.
His moral standards are perfect, so a lot higher than ours. So who are we to
judge Him, say, how can a loving God send someone to hell?
It's a choice that we're making here.
(55:00):
It's a choice to follow His word, to trust that He wants the best for us,
that He loves us, Jesus that he will adopt us that will be reborn in his grace
that he will guide us through our lives if we trust and we surrender and we
let him and if we don't want to do that we have that choice.
(55:23):
We have that choice because we haven't lived with Him. We can live eternity without Him.
And that's really what hell is to me. It's a place where God is not.
And I think if we went biblically deeper, that's what we would find is a place
where sin or missing the mark is just perpetual.
(55:43):
There's no code of conduct at that point.
Yeah, it's just this place of unending narcissism. and who knows exactly what
it is. We just know that it doesn't have God.
It does not have God part of it. Yeah, it doesn't have God, and we don't want
that for the people that we love.
And God doesn't want that either. God wants you to choose Him.
(56:07):
So when it comes to trying to understand what are people's conceptions of God
is and what their relationship with God, so we can compare with the touchstone.
I didn't do that when I heard from Jesus Jesus, that he wanted me to do whatever I wanted to do.
I thought that was Jesus. So that was who I was idolizing. And people say God is love, right?
(56:30):
And everybody, Jesus is love. That was his message, love.
Well, if you go read in the Bible, you see his message is clear.
He talks about sin and he talks about repentance.
And he talks more about hell than the whole Old Testament talked about hell.
So from his own mouth, this is the message to repent that he came to be the perfect sacrifice.
(56:56):
Like throughout the four gospels, that's what you hear. And then the epistles also.
So I'm going to trust that if he says that, and I'm going to share that with
you because I believe in him because he died and he resurrected three days later.
And there's so much historical evidence for the existence of Jesus.
(57:16):
I mean, there's so much historical, how do you call that? The documentation. The documentation.
Who are the people that go to Egypt and find mummies? Archaeologists.
The archaeologists. There's no archaeological evidence that the Bible is not true.
I mean, they keep finding things to confirm what is written in this book.
(57:38):
Look, so we are coming from a place of love, and that's why we're sharing the
truth with our friends. We're not trying to judge.
We're just trying to share what we have been learning. So, hell being a word,
and then there's another word.
What was the other word that we were talking about? Sin. Oh,
we said wrath. And the wrath.
But go ahead share some more leo i think you had a thought
(58:00):
that well i was just saying i was saying i mean i i can get in the heads of
those people i i was in that headspace and so was
i i was totally in that headspace but but i
mean i was also thinking at the same time i was like you know there's nothing
that i think anybody could bring to me that i wouldn't be willing to talk about
you know just just tell me what you what you've got and and let's let's talk
(58:20):
i might not agree with them just like i said earlier we've had guests on here
you know that that that we we've kind of been flummoxed after we interviewed him.
Like, okay, I didn't think they made their case really well, you know?
And so I think for a friend to take that and say that, you know,
it was a judgment on them,
(58:40):
it doesn't feel like everything is love. You know what I mean?
It's crazy. It's like, okay, well, wouldn't you be inquisitive?
Wouldn't you want to know more? You know, where are you, how are you putting
that together? I'm interested.
There's no curiosity. There's no curiosity. It's just like, oh.
Yeah, yeah. You call me a sinner, which I didn't even do that.
(59:03):
Yeah. Well, I mean, it was funny. I had somebody, even though I grew up,
you know, my whole life Catholic, you know, and I was an altar boy.
And, you know, I understood the mechanics of the church, you know,
the procedures that we did.
The rituals. The rituals and all that. that, you know, I remember I was at a
get-together a couple weeks back, and I kind of mentioned, you know,
(59:26):
we're in this weird place because, you know, we feel like, you know,
the community that we hang out with, you know, might be judging us because of,
you know, this newfound, you know, love of Christ.
And I remember, I don't remember how it went about, but one of the individuals
at the party was like, oh, you know, you're just getting started.
You're a baby Christian. you know it's like like like
(59:48):
you're gonna you're gonna figure all this out that
you know that that it isn't what you think
it is you know and and but sure sure we we we're we have to say that we also
have to be true to what we're experiencing as well but but i think it's also
interesting because you know when people say that it's one of those things it's
(01:00:10):
like okay well well give me.
How you're putting it together yeah you know tell me what
you know in how you're showing
we want to know what kind of information do you have that we
don't have because this looks this looks pretty rock solid so so where's it
breaking apart for you and and it's interesting you know it's like crickets
(01:00:31):
you know i mean not not necessarily at this party but we had some other conversation
oh i didn't come prepared which yeah yeah i don't know my bible verses the top of my head either.
But it's almost like you can't even really ask the questions.
Yeah, yeah. You know, how did you come to this conclusion? Because here,
this conclusion I got you from this, I read this, this is what I'm understanding here.
(01:00:57):
They can't express. So it goes to this is beyond words, right?
This is beyond words. You can't really explain.
I was like, well. It's everyone's individual experience.
Yeah. And so then we are back to.
We're back to everybody driving the different speeds on the freeway. Yeah.
But again, we are coming from a place. And if you're a friend of ours and you're
(01:01:19):
listening to this, we're coming from a place of really trying to understand
where you're coming from.
And we're not trying to impose on you our belief, but at the same time, if you believe,
like Penn was saying, a truck is coming your way on high speeds,
it's going to hit you, we might get a little intense and try to tackle you.
(01:01:44):
Because we care about you, not because we want to be right.
It's because we care about you. We love you and we care about where you're going to spend eternity.
And that's new for a lot of people. Yeah. That's new for us.
It is weird. It is weird. It was new for us. Yeah, it's new for us, new for a lot of people.
(01:02:04):
So this is what we wanted to share in this episode, that I feel like we are
discovering the truth of Christ.
It's very liberating, trusting Christ,
putting all your burdens and your problems on His hand, you know,
it's so liberating, so peaceful, it's so joyous, it's so calming,
(01:02:25):
not feeling Feeling like we have to do it on our own is such an amazing realization.
And just to imagine that the world would be rebuilt, our bodies would be rebuilt
when all of this temporary existence here, existence is over,
(01:02:46):
that we're really going to be spending eternity in a great place with the most
amazing being, our creator.
Isn't that something to just look for and be excited about?
Yeah. I mean, and, and, and I get it. A lot of people are like,
man, it's because when you look at the world today, you're like,
are, is there a deal that good?
(01:03:07):
You know what I mean? And, and, and so it's hard to get your arms around.
And I think that's, it took a little while for me. And, and I think,
you know, after diving in, I'm like, yeah, yeah. Can I share a quote before we, we end?
I don't know. Can you get to it quickly? I will try.
I just, I'm reading this book called Jesus is Better. Ooh, How do I do this?
Yeah, you got it. It's better. It's by Lucas Chipman, a friend gifted to me.
(01:03:32):
It's an easy read, but that was just a quote from C.S. Lewis,
actually. I thought it was so epic.
Oh, a lot of people like C.S. Lewis because he wrote these scripts for wonderful movies.
Well, he wrote all the, he didn't write the scripts. He wrote books.
Books. Oh, there you go. See, I don't even know what I'm talking about. Yeah.
(01:03:54):
Why would you, should you even listen to me? Okay.
But this is the quote, C.S. Lewis in his book, The Way of Glory and Other Addresses
says, it would seem that our Lord finds our desires not too strong, but too weak.
We are half-hearted creatures fooling about with drink and sex and an ambition
(01:04:16):
when infinite joy is offered us.
Like an ignorant child who wants to go on making mud pies in a slum because
he cannot imagine what it's meant by the offer of a holiday at the sea.
We are far too easily pleased.
(01:04:37):
And so that is kind of what this world is.
I mean, we have experienced some great things right i mean we we was just at
banff national park and that was.
Fantastic amazing place it's now on fire unfortunately
jasper national park is closed and it closed a week after was it just a few
(01:04:57):
days after we left actually so we're extremely blessed to be able to experience
all that beauty but again this world is like being a slum And your vacation, like building mud pies,
where, you know, the heavenly reality,
it's like the holiday in the sea all the time. So I just love that.
(01:05:18):
All right. Are you good? Yes. All right. Thank you guys for joining us.
Press that like button or give us a review if you like what you heard.
Tell others. And Fabi, you want to say anything?
I still don't have a bumper, but I'll work on that this week. Sounds good.