The Dark Side of Energy Medicine (Part 1) with Marci Julin

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
This is the Collective Resistance Podcast with your hosts, Leo and Fabiola.
Music.
We will be discussing why we find ourselves resisting the narratives of the
Common Collective, as well as why the Common Collective resists new information.

(00:30):
All right, well, welcome back to another edition of the Collective Resistance Podcast.
Fabi and I are here joined by a special guest, Marci Julien.
She is the author of three books, When You Can't Trust His Heart,
Life to the Body, and Ouija Medicine.
Founder of Heart and Mind Ministries, as well as a mother and grandmother.
She and her husband, Seth, have been married for 32 years and enjoy traveling

(00:55):
the world together. other.
Marcy also enjoys gardening, beekeeping, raising chickens, and running.
She spent two decades sick with a host of symptoms and problems that traditional
medicine didn't know how to fix or to offer any hope, which led her to alternative
medicine, until God opened her eyes to the concerning spiritual power of those practices.
When she turned from all of that to the God of the Bible, He healed her of 13 diagnosed conditions.

(01:21):
Marcy Julien, welcome to the podcast, But before we dive in,
we want to play a short clip from her YouTube channel. Okay, here we go.
Energy. They say it's in us and all around us.
Music.
Energy medicine teaches that illness occurs when the flow of energy is blocked.

(01:42):
Practices like muscle testing, homeopathy, acupuncture, and so many others claim
to diagnose and treat illness.
Has your journey led you to energy medicine lots of people claim it really works
they say things like the body knows we only have to ask.
Music.

(03:10):
All right, let me stop sharing here. Marci, welcome again to the podcast.
We're so glad that you could join us.
So glad to be here. Thank you, guys. So excited to have you on.
As you said at the end of that video, you know, question the narrative.
And that has been basically the motto of this podcast and why we started this podcast.

(03:31):
And we've been on a new journey of Christianity and just questioning a lot.
And when I ran across your content, it really like my ears really perked up
and it kind of blew my world off a little bit.
So not your fault, not your fault at all. I've heard that before. Yes.
So we wanted to have you on and we wanted to start with, you know,

(03:53):
share a little bit of your story.
How did you come from being in that space of energy medicine and healing to where you are now?
Well, as I said, or you said about me in the intro,
I had a host of health issues that just went on ever-worsening for about 17 years.

(04:18):
And I think we're going to do another podcast maybe about health,
and I'll share more of the details of that health journey.
But kind of jumping into just where I got involved in energy medicine at the
end of that time when I was really pretty much an invalid and decided that I

(04:40):
had come across a book in the library about energy medicine,
specifically a book called Say Goodbye to Illness by Devi Nan Bhojrapad,
who is the founder of NAET, or as I call it, NAET. And.
And she talked in there about allergies and, and health in a way that kind of resonated with me.

(05:03):
And so I decided to go, you know, I had tried traditional medicine for years
and gotten nowhere except in the hospital and surgeries and whatever.
And so decided to give this a try.
And so during During the time, after the time I went to her,

(05:24):
I was involved for close to three years.
And, you know, I saw all kinds of things that happened.
But the first one, the thing that really got my attention was on my third treatment,
she treated me for iodine, which the theory is that,

(05:44):
you know, if you are allergic to a particular substance or mineral or whatever,
then that is going to keep you from absorbing it properly from other sources, blah, blah, blah.
And so I had been diagnosed with hyperthyroidism about three years before this,

(06:04):
had been put on thyroid medication.
And they say that once you're on thyroid medication, you can never get off.
And so because the thyroid kind of shuts down and just relies on the drug.
So I go for my third treatment and she treats me for iodine.
And literally by the time I got home, so like 15, 20 minutes to drive home,

(06:30):
my heart was racing like crazy.
And like what is going on and come to find out that the treatment had supposedly
corrected whatever was going on with my thyroid and suddenly instead of being
hypothyroid I was hyper thyroid and my heart rate was just through the roof,

(06:54):
So I called the doctor, you know, in a panic, what do I do? And he said,
did you tell the doctor what you did?
No, I did not. But he did tell me, just stop the medicine right away.
Don't take any more until you see that things have calmed down.
Well, I never went back on it again. I just,

(07:17):
my thyroid was perfectly healthy for the first time in many,
many years, and even more healthy than it was when I was on the medicine.
Even on the medicine, I never tested with completely normal thyroid levels.
So needless to say, that dramatic response got my attention,

(07:39):
and I just decided, well, this must be a good thing.
I was a Christian, and before this appointment, I really kind of felt an unease
about all of it. the first two appointments.
I'm like, something just doesn't seem right. And I was praying a lot about it

(08:01):
and asking God to make it clear.
I was talking to my husband, Seth, and he was kind of not buying into it,
but didn't know how to explain it or whatever.
So anyway, after that third treatment where suddenly my thyroid's working,
I thought, okay, God, you've given me my answer. Sir, I'm well.

(08:24):
This is a good gift.
And, you know, I don't need to worry about it. Maybe exactly.
And maybe I don't need to...
Yeah, maybe I don't need to question it. It's okay.
And so I just went forward full steam.
And, you know, in the video, the book trailer that you played,

(08:48):
I give the illustration of lights in the house.
And if it's all right, I'd kind of like to talk about that a little bit.
So in energy medicine,
there are some skeptics who will say it's all pseudoscience,
it's bogus, it's fraud, it's placebo effect that makes it work,

(09:08):
it's ideomotor effect, whatever.
And I'm going to talk maybe if there's an opportunity a little later about the
science, the clinical studies on it, which are interesting. Yeah.
But I know that there's a power to it. There's something real.
And so like the lights in the house, I could see that something's going on here.

(09:33):
And I didn't know what was behind it.
I didn't know. I assumed that it was just science that, you know,
we haven't figured out how to to explain it yet, but it's still scientific.
So, and in the time that I was involved with energy medicine during that almost

(09:54):
three-year period, I saw three instances of.
Significant improvements and healings. One was my thyroid, but I also saw three
instances of disastrous results that I'd also like to share about.
And then in the nine, 10 years since I've been, since I started writing on energy

(10:19):
medicine, I've had so many people reach out to me, hundreds at this point who
have shared their stories with me as well.
And I mean, I can give you all kinds of stories of how it works.
I mean, we've seen it too with NAET in particular. So I believe you.

(10:41):
Yeah. So there's clearly something going on there.
And like the lights in the house, You can see there's evidence of something,
but the question that we should be asking is, how does it work?
And is it safe?
Because that's the big one. Is it safe? If it works purely through science, great.

(11:05):
Then science is going to show that it is consistent, it's reliable or verifiable, it is measurable.
Repeatable, right? And the beauty of science is that, you know,
you can test it, you can repeat those tests, and you're going to get the same results.
So if energy medicine is truly based in what I'm going to call the physical

(11:30):
realm in science, then you can prove that.
Marcy, can I ask you one question, though, on that?
Because it's just something that came to my mind is that, you know,
I would totally agree with you that science should back that up.
But I mean, I think like even what we experienced through the pandemic,
don't we kind of, I mean, maybe you look at science a little differently,

(11:52):
but I mean, I know I look at science as kind of hijacked, right?
And it goes where the money goes. And so if there isn't a,
And I guess there's still money, right, in holistic medicine and whatnot, but I'm... A lot.
How much money did you spend? Right. Oh, girl.

(12:14):
But I mean... You don't even want to think about that. I don't want to think
about it. But it's from a lot of individual small practitioners,
right, as opposed to like being from, you know, like an AMA type of,
you know, American Medical Association type of force.
So it feels a little bit different. And so I'm wondering, you know,
do we think there's actually been good study?

(12:37):
I mean, that's what I hope you'll talk about a little bit. Has there been really
good studies done or are they kind of manipulated, you know,
kind of like what we saw in the pandemic with the vaccine data and whatnot?
Right, right. Excellent question. And yes, if you'll allow a little later,
I want to kind of go into some of those studies and talk about that.

(12:59):
Because, yeah, that's an excellent point and question that needs to be considered, too.
So, you know, if it's science explained,
even if we don't know the answer yet, but science explains it,
it falls in what the Bible calls the fixed order of heaven and earth.

(13:22):
In other words, established laws that gravity is always true.
On this earth, you drop something, it's going to go down. It's not going to float.
So that's the beauty of science, at least in theory, for measuring it.
But if it's not, then it's either fraud or it works by the placebo effect.

(13:49):
Or the third option is through spiritual forces.
And so when I became involved with muscle testing and with Nate,
because of all of that response to the thyroid being well, I started...

(14:10):
I mean, I began treating for all kinds of stuff.
I learned very quickly how to do it because it is very expensive.
And I discovered that I had this gift for being able to muscle test really well.
For those, maybe do we need to kind of explain terms? Yeah, let's do that just briefly.

(14:31):
What is muscle testing? Yeah, so the official name would be applied kinesiology.
It was founded by George Goodheart, and he began the idea of applied kinesiology.
He was a chiropractor. He believed that energy was the root of illness and things

(14:55):
that blocked that flow of energy were going to cause health issues.
Muscle testing, he created and taught that it could be a form of diagnosis to
figure out what is blocking the flow of energy and causing illness.
So he formed a college with several other colleagues called the International

(15:20):
College of Applied Kinesiology.
And so they train applied kinesiologists, muscle testers. But most people that
do muscle testing are not that advanced.
They're not knowledgeable and trained like the college would train people.
So basically, there are different ways to muscle test.

(15:44):
One would be the most commonly used is where the person being tested holds their arm out.
They hold something else in their hand that's actually going to be the tested object.
Let's say using the example of my thyroid, I held a vial that was supposedly
energetically given a frequency of iodine.

(16:06):
And then the practitioner would place her hand on my wrist and try and press down my arm.
If I was allergic, my arm would weaken and fall down.
If I was not allergic, then my arm would stay strong.
There's also other ways, sway testing, like an O-ring that you can self-test with.

(16:31):
So it also has a lot of different names and so on.
So anyway, you always get a binary response from it.
It's always either yes or no, positive or negative, favorable, unfavorable.
So that's muscle testing. But while I was using that, I.

(16:55):
I saw three significant improvements. One was personally with my thyroid.
The second was I had begun to treat other people not for pay,
not as a business, just friend helping friend kind of thing.
And a friend of mine had a baby and the baby just screamed nonstop.

(17:19):
And she wouldn't even let me come over to drop off a baby gift or to say hi, bring a meal, nothing.
She's like, nobody was allowed to see her.
And finally, after three or four months of this, she agreed to let me stop by.
And when I got there, she was just frazzled.

(17:41):
She's like bouncing the baby like crazy, trying to get her to quit screaming.
The baby's red in the face. it was she
like every muscle through the baby's neck and
oh it was so sad and so long
story short i tested her used the mother as a surrogate tester and determined

(18:02):
the the formula they were feeding her she was allergic to and they had tried
two different formulas and she was the baby was allergic to both.
So I treated for the one and I went home.
My friend called, I called the next morning to check on her.
She said, you won't believe it. My baby.

(18:23):
After you left, had this enormous, sorry, this is gross, but bowel movement, and then fell asleep.
And she's like, she slept solid for three hours.
The mother had told me that her baby had never slept for more than minutes at
a time up to this point, not even at night.
So for three hours, she said she slept. So I go back the second day and I treat

(18:48):
her for the second formula. and I go home.
I call the next day to find out how she's doing.
She said, I can't believe it. She's like, again, the baby did the same thing afterward.
And then she fell asleep and she said she slept for eight hours all night long.
And she said, I kept going in there to look at her to make sure she was still breathing.

(19:12):
And she's like, but she was good.
And she said she, when she woke up, it was like a totally different child.
And there was, you know, her muscles were relaxed. She was happy.
So I'm thinking, yes, this works. Great. It works.
The third significant improvement was with a coworker where the,

(19:37):
somebody I worked with, he had had muscular dystrophy as a child and they finally
managed to get it to go into remission.
So from the time he was a teenager until he was like about 30,
I want to say it had been in remission.
Well, he started coming into the office looking like he was pale and just exhausted.

(20:01):
And so I asked him, he was a good friend and asked him, you know, are you okay?
And he ended up confiding in me that he was concerned and the muscular dystrophy had returned.
And he was terrified, as you might imagine.
So he agreed to let me test him for things and treat him. I did.

(20:23):
Found that supposedly it was a granola bar that he was eating every day that
was causing the problem.
When I test treated him, again, almost like a miracle, he was better.
And he went back to working out at the gym. He had good color again.
So here's three instances where clearly there is something going on with these

(20:50):
practices that I was using.
However, on the flip side, there were also three significantly disastrous instances.
One was a friend of mine who was bipolar.
And I told her about Nate, and she decided to go see the same practitioner that I had gone to.

(21:16):
And after she had been treated for some things, she started to feel better again and was doing great.
So she decided to stop taking her medicine. And long story short,
she ended up driving herself into a bridge and killing herself. Oh, wow. I'm sorry.
And, you know, I didn't, I never treated her, but it was because of me that she went there.

(21:44):
And so anyway, that was a disastrous event that came about as a result of these practices.
Another was that I
had a family member who had ulcerative colitis and
she could not eat dairy at all or it would cause a flare-up well I convinced

(22:07):
her to let me test her and treat her we treated for all the dairy stuff according
to muscle testing she had cleared so she's like Like, woohoo,
I get to eat dairy and start eating ice cream and the best forms of dairy.
Everything that's, you know, she had been denied all those years.

(22:28):
And so, so often with those treatments where you're said that you have cleared
for it, that it doesn't last.
And so initially it showed that she had cleared, but then at some point she clearly had not.
And she ended up in the hospital in grave condition because of losing so much blood.

(22:55):
And it was just really bad.
So the third disastrous one was that I had another close friend who I treated,
tested and treated, introduced her to NAET and treated.

(23:15):
She developed environmental illness to the degree that she went from being able
to live a normal life to never leaving her house.
She couldn't eat more than a couple of things.
They had to be carefully prepared in these crazy, meticulous ways.
She could only wear certain clothes. those. She lived with her mom still.

(23:41):
Her mom was just exhausted because she had to do so much laundry,
keep washing and rewashing everything.
The last time I went and visited her, the house was torn apart.
She was sleeping on a bare mattress on the floor.

(24:01):
There were piles of laundry everywhere in the house.
And she told me that she was in all seriousness, that a remote testing practitioner
had told her on a full moon to sit with one foot in a pot of milk.
I don't know if it was the left foot or right foot, hold a banana in the left

(24:23):
or right hand and do the treatment under the light of the full moon.
And this is a beautiful, who used to be a beautiful Christian woman who now is,
you know, living in this constant torment and all that started because of her

(24:44):
involvement with energy medicine.
So I share those stories because I want people to know that,
and I could share tons more that are not my personal stories, but from others.
I want people to know that I get it. It does do something.
There is a power to it.

(25:07):
But like the illustration of the lights in the house, where is that power coming from?
What explains it? And is it safe? Who flipped the lights on, right?
That's what really perked my attention when I heard that you say that analogy in one of your videos.
But yeah, there's light.

(25:30):
But it could have been anybody, you know, turning those lights on.
And because we can't see, we can verify. And from, you know,
from my perspective, using energy medicine and learning all kinds of modalities
for the same reasons that you did, you know, because it's expensive.
Like those sessions are expensive and you start getting an interest for it.

(25:52):
And maybe you have a gift.
Like you said, you had a gift for being very, very accurate with muscle testing.
You just assume that this is God's energy and you hear that,
oh, that's God's energy.
You know, it's in the Bible. Jesus used this sort of modality to heal people
and I mean like I didn't know the Bible so to me it was like.

(26:12):
Sign me up, you know, seem like it's, it's doing things, but at the end of the
day, we can't see behind the curtain. Right.
So we don't know what has been influenced. And Marcy, when you were kind of
experiencing all of those stories, was it like the sum total of them that kind
of brought you to where you're at?
Or did you have a moment like with your friend with the bridge that was that

(26:36):
like, okay, this is, I need to wipe the fog out here.
I got to make some decisions.
You know, you would think that that would be the case, but sadly, no, absolutely not.
I mean, I was so blind to it. And I think a lot of people are.

(26:56):
When people reach out to me and ask questions, share their stories,
they often will say, I had one dramatic thing that happened at the beginning
that was good, but then I couldn't see it.
I had one woman tell me that her husband finally pointed out to her,
since you've been using these things, your health, you may have good days,

(27:18):
you may have bad, and it may go up and down, but the general trajectory is downward.
And so he pointed out that her health was worse, not better from when she started.
But you're often blinded to that.
And so the good things that happen, I really focused on, tried to ignore the bad.

(27:43):
So what actually brought me to a place of recognizing and seeing the truth for what it was was.
I had started to get into the Bible, and a friend had challenged me because
she saw that I was like, yes, I was living a, quote, normal life.
For me, it was a lot better in the sense of here, I'm now able to get out of

(28:08):
bed. I'm not in constant pain.
But I was testing and treating all day long.
I mean, every and all these bizarre reactions, like my husband,
I'd love to go for walks and we would go for a walk at night and under the street
lamp, I would collapse on the ground. We had to stop.
And it's like, okay, well, we better treat under the street lamp because I'm

(28:32):
allergic to the EMFs from the light.
Just stuff like that all the time. So my friend said, Marcy,
I really think you're in bondage to these practices.
I don't know what's going on. And she gave me a book to read that talked about
spiritual roots of illness.
And at first I was offended and wasn't going to read it.

(28:55):
But then after a while, I decided, okay, my friend means well,
I ought to at least read the introduction or something.
So I did, and it challenged me to pull out the Bible and start reading the Bible.
And I read the entire Bible in three months. and with a blue highlighter and

(29:18):
highlighting every verse.
I wish I still had that Bible. I lost it. I know.
I would show you all my blue highlights. But anyway, just looking for everything
the Bible says about health, illness, and healing.
And one of the things that talked about a lot was that sin can also cause God to bring about illness.

(29:41):
And so I started praying that God would show me if there was any sin in my life
and began this crazy three-week period of repentance.
So during that three-week period of time, things started to happen that had never happened before.
Doors started slamming in my house when nobody else was there but me.

(30:06):
That happened at least twice that I can specifically remember.
I also started to sense that I could know the answers of muscle testing without
actually touching the person, without actually muscle testing.
And that really disturbed me as well, because I wanted to believe that it was

(30:27):
all scientifically explained.
Even if I didn't know what that explanation was, it had to be science,
not spiritual in nature.
So if it was something that I could just sense the answer, that defied a scientific explanation.
So that was concerning, but I still didn't want to let go of it,

(30:51):
so I just kind of tried to ignore that.
My son also had started
having these weird prophetic dreams that
were really scaring him then we
went on vacation and the strangest thing happened we went to the post office
to mail some postcards because I would always send my nieces and nephews postcards

(31:16):
and I'm sitting in the car My husband's next to me in the driver's seat. My son's behind me.
And I've got my head down, you know, writing addresses on postcards,
not looking up, not once to look up, just very focused on that.
But I could hear Seth and Caleb in the car talking about this stupid sign that was on the post office.

(31:41):
And I'm just like, whatever.
And I'm writing, but I'm hearing everything they're saying.
So I finished the postcards. I get out of the car, go in, mail them, get back in the car.
And as soon as I sit down, Caleb says, Hey mom, see that sign right there?
And he starts telling me this conversation that I had already listened to them say the whole thing.

(32:05):
And I'm like, Caleb, why are you repeating this? I already heard this conversation.
He's like, no, you didn't. I said, I said, yes, I did. I was right here when
you guys were talking. He's like, no, you weren't. You were in the post office.
And so I start to like, word for word, tell them what each of them said in this conversation.

(32:26):
And they both get this look on their faces like, whoa, what?
And I said, I was sitting right here. And they're like, Mom,
no, you were not. And Seth is like, Marcy, you were inside.
So I thought at first they were just playing a prank on me. Net nesting with

(32:46):
you. Yes, because they love to do that.
But they kept insisting that they were not and that they really,
I was not in the car when they had the conversation.
So we just kind of dropped the topic and didn't talk about it anymore.
Went home from vacation.
And at that point, I'm really, I mean, that got my attention.

(33:10):
And I'm like, okay, God, if there is some door to the spirit world that I have
opened to demonic forces in some way, please make that known to me.
And then that ability to know the answers before for a muscle test became even more pronounced.

(33:33):
And I finally asked Seth, hey, can we talk?
And I told him, and he devised a test where we chose, I don't know,
it was like 10 to 12 things in the room.
And I had a piece of paper and he's like, so am I allergic to this?
And keep in mind with Nate, you can be allergic to literally everything.

(33:56):
So he's like pointing to a book. Are you allergic to that? Are you allergic to this?
And so I wrote down one through 12, whatever it was, 10, and I put yes and no for each one.
And it was so like when he would ask, the sense that I knew the answer was so

(34:17):
strong that I would literally start laughing because I'm like, this is absurd.
How can I know this? But I did.
So when I tested him for all the things on the list, and before I go further,
I need to make sure you understand.

(34:37):
He at the time was lifting weights and he was so built.
There was no way that I could pull his arm down if he didn't want me to.
But when I muscle tested him, it was like I had hijacked the muscles of his
arm and he had no control over him.

(34:57):
And his arm would just drop with me barely pressing on it.
And so it was a very definitive. It wasn't like I was pressing harder each time
to get that yes or no answer. Right.
So when we finished, I had been 100% accurate on all of it.
And we both just kind of looked at each other and were like,

(35:20):
okay, there is no way to explain that except that it's demonic power that is
empowering me to be able to do muscle testing.
And you talk about divination, right?
So just to clarify a little bit how you know that that is not from God is because

(35:43):
when you're guessing like this, there are passages in the Bible.
I think Deuteronomy 18 is the one that talks about divination, maybe?
No, you had it right.
I did. It forbids the use of divination. And not because God doesn't want us
to know, but it's for protection, right?

(36:05):
Because he opens us up for things that may look like they're beneficial.
But again, as you're pointing out the lights in the house, I mean,
it could have been a robber trying to get into the house and turn the lights
on, right? We don't know.
Right. Yeah. For that reason. Yeah, divination is knowing something that through,

(36:31):
I have a definition that I wrote down here somewhere.
According to Merriam-Webster's dictionary, it is the art or practice that seeks
to foresee or foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge,
usually by the interpretation of omens or by the aid of supernatural power.

(36:52):
So divination is used.
There are instances of divination in the Bible.
In the Old Testament, there was something called the Urim and Thummim,
which the priest wore a, it was called an ethod, but a breastplate basically
that had stones in it that they would use,

(37:14):
God told them to use to seek him, to get answers from God.
And then there's also the use of lots where people had, they would have like
straws that were different lengths.
You hide the, hold them in your hand so you can't see the lengths. People take one.

(37:34):
Whoever draws the short straw, that's the one tells you your answer.
So those forms of divination were used.
And people sometimes will say, well, Marcy, divination is in the Bible. God said it's okay.
But the last time divination was ever used in the Bible was at Pentecost,

(37:56):
which is when the Holy Spirit was given to the believers.
And the Bible says that the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. He is our.
Go-between, our source of knowledge from God as well as God's Word.

(38:16):
And so, no, we are no longer to use any forms of divination.
There is no godly form of divination that is to be used any longer.
And again, for our protection, not because God is hiding information from us
or anything like that. Well, and God also wants us to trust him.

(38:41):
So he wants us to look to him for guidance, for answers, and so on.
And often that means waiting or trusting.
And of course, we would much prefer to just have a quick, easy answer. Right.
Yeah, we don't know. I mean, especially when, as you said, you were suffering severe health issues.

(39:04):
And in our case, it was the same thing. We had a child that was in severe pain,
and we didn't know how to help him.
And that's when I saw that the help happened. I'm like, wow,
I mean, here, he's not in pain anymore. more.
But again, listening to your content and even looking at your book,

(39:25):
I'm like, now I'm like second guessing, what could I have open our family up to that? I don't know.
And if we can just go back to basics a little bit, you're talking about the
lights in the house, right?
And we're talking about the body. The body has an electrical system.
But what is the difference between, because we're thinking energy,
when I was doing these practices, I was thinking energy is energy,

(39:49):
you know, like, and I can feel it in my hands.
So it must be, it must be a real thing.
Or I had, I had some experiences similar to you where it seemed like sometimes
I knew the answer before I did the testing as well.
But what is the difference between the body's electrical system and this add
on, you know, some religions say prana, chi, vital force, a lot of the energy,

(40:15):
practitioners talk about this vital force. What is the difference?
Yeah. So it's interesting when you start to research energy medicine,
there are different approaches that proponents will take to try and justify it.
Some will just flat out say it's spiritual power.
And a lot of the founders who are behind applied kinesiology,

(40:41):
chiropractic, homeopathy, the founders claimed that it was spiritual.
But then there are those who are proponents who want to make it sound scientific.
And so there are a couple different books that have been written to try and compare.

(41:02):
Like you said, Fabiola, of the electrical systems of the the body and that that's
the same as energy and that's how it works.
And however, that isn't true.
It's so nobody would deny that our bodies are electrical, that we have an electrical

(41:23):
component to the cells, the potassium, sodium, all chloride,
all of that forms an electrical charge.
Our atoms, you know everything is electrical
in nature however is
that the same as energy the answer is

(41:43):
no subtle energies are not
let's see how to explain so first of all subtle energies i'm going to call it
subtle energy to distinguish because physics of course also uses the word energy
and they use it to refer to thermal energy or the power to do work.

(42:07):
But subtle energies are a different thing altogether.
And if I can just talk a second about that word energy.
The original word is a Greek word, energia, and it actually means the power to accomplish work.
In the Bible, so the Greek language was what the New Testament was written in.

(42:31):
So the word energy is used in the New Testament a number of times.
Every single time that it's used, it is used to speak of spiritual power to accomplish a work.
And that's important because it never once refers to human power to do anything.

(42:53):
It's only God giving humans power to accomplish his good purposes.
But there is one passage in 2 Thessalonians that specifically talks about how
in the end times, the last days, that.
God will allow Satan to use his energy to do counterfeit signs, miracles, and wonders.

(43:20):
And why? To deceive people so that they will be tested to see will they believe
the truth or believe a lie.
So biblically speaking, energy is always spiritual power. And it's interesting
that a physicist took the word energy from the Greek times.

(43:43):
They applied it to science and used it in a scientific way.
With Einstein's theory of relativity, it popularized the concept of energy.
But in 1980, there were three researchers who got together in Boulder,
Colorado, and they started energy medicine, or they're credited with starting it.

(44:06):
They came up with a definition that I'll read.
It says, any energetic or informational interaction with a biological system
to bring back homeostasis in the organism.
That sounds really scientific, but basically it's saying it's an energetic,
informational interaction in a living creature to bring homeostasis or balance in that energy flow.

(44:38):
So that's what energy medicine is. That's what they determined it.
So when people talk about.
Energy medicine, there are some that just talk about spiritual.
They'll say right up front, it's all spiritual power.
Others try and link it to quantum mechanics or to frequencies,

(44:59):
to the electrical systems of our body.
But again, let me go back to what I said earlier.
Science is consistent. It's measurable.
So if energy medicine
if energy is truly the
same synonymous with our electrical aspects

(45:22):
of our human bodies then it should be measurable it should be consistent the
Chinese meridians they should be you should be able to measure them okay well
maybe some will say it's too subtle you can't measure it that way there's a.
A man named David Feinstein.

(45:43):
He's a PhD who taught at Johns Hopkins University. He also taught at Antioch College.
He's a clinical psychologist and national director of the Energy Medicine Institute.
So he is considered one of the experts in that field of energy medicine.
He's written a lot. One of his articles is called The Six Pillars of Energy Medicine.

(46:09):
And in that article, he talks a lot about trying to make energy medicine sound
scientific and talk about the science behind it.
But he interestingly says that he admits that you cannot detect the meridians.

(46:29):
And in fact, you cannot directly prove that they exist.
You can indirectly remember, like lights in a house, they're on,
but we don't know what's turning them on.
So that's what he's saying. Or who's turning them on.
Yeah. And so he says...
I'll read a quote of his. He says, meridians do not correspond with known structures

(46:54):
in the circulatory lymphatic or nervous systems,
nor are the meridians and acupuncture points even stable in their shape,
size, or location on the skin.
This, however, he says, is exactly what would be expected if the meridian system
operates It operates as a field that is somewhat independent of the physical body it acts upon.

(47:20):
Okay. In other words, if there is some outside force acting on the body that
is creating these meridians, that's creating this energy flow,
that's going to mean that it's not consistent, which he says is to be expected
because it's not actually within us that those meridians are flowing.

(47:45):
It is an outside force acting upon us.
And influences are influencing our health outcomes.
Right. The flow of energy.
So if all of that, you know, if the electrical systems of our body were the

(48:05):
answer, then it should be consistent.
It should be measurable and verifiable. And it's not.
Now, for people that say, oh, but we just don't have the tools,
as you said, because it's so subtle.
This is coming. coming, these tools will be developed eventually.
What would be your take on that?

(48:26):
Yeah. So if I might, that'll go back to Leo's original question about the clinical
studies, and I'll kind of go into that a little bit.
So there was one particular study, and there have been a number that have been done on muscle testing.
I'll focus on that for a second. Okay.

(48:46):
I have read every single study in detail, the abstracts of every study that
has ever been done on muscle testing. Wow.
And there is not a single one that concludes that it works.
Okay. But this particular study, so when I read, and I have now read so many

(49:06):
hundreds of clinical studies, I always look for who's doing the study.
Like you mentioned, Leo, with, you know, where's the money coming from to pay for it?
Is there a bias here? And so I always look for that.
And this particular study I got really interested in because I noticed that
the group of seven doctors that were doing the study,

(49:30):
every one of them had a vested interest in proving that muscle testing worked.
Oh, okay. And it was actually funded and done to prove that it works.
The doctors, six of the seven doctors, all were involved in parascience type

(49:53):
stuff, you know, remote testing, all kinds of parascience stuff.
One of them, I recognize the name from, from years previous, and it's a Dr.
Christopher Shade, who is the founder and chief scientist of Quicksilver Scientific,

(50:13):
which is like a heavy metal testing company.
And I had once heard him say that all of his products were muscle tested for quality assurance.
So when I saw his name on this as one of the PhDs on this study,
I thought, okay, I know where he's coming from and it's clear where these others are.

(50:34):
And I expected to to see, you know, some interesting results.
But it was a sound study. They did...
They had three practitioners. I think it was two men and one woman or vice versa.
And then they use what's called a dynamometer, I think. I don't know how you say that.
But it's basically a hand grip thing that you squeeze and it measures.

(51:00):
Yeah, I think we've used that with practitioners.
Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So he used that as the control.
And so they tested for a number of different things. it
was all i mean it was as good of a clinical study
double blind control group study
as it gets and the conclusion that they

(51:20):
came to let me see if i can i thought i had the results written down but that
it is no better than random guessing oh wow okay literally that's what it says
and for those that tell you but well that depends on the practitioner you know
maybe Maybe those practitioners were not good.
Maybe they didn't know what they were doing.

(51:42):
Because of that bias, they chose practitioners that were known to be respected in that.
And they took both men and women. And they still couldn't get the results they
wanted. And they still couldn't get the results they wanted.
And then there was another study that was done, like you talking about how you
used it for your children. Mm-hmm.

(52:03):
A lot of people, you know, they get very concerned about issues that their kids
are having, specifically like allergy and nutritional stuff.
And so there was actually a study in 2001 of 315 children and adolescents over a two-year period.
And it was done to determine the reliability

(52:27):
of muscle testing and applied kinesiology for allergy purposes.
And that one also concluded that it is no better than random guessing and not
to be used for assessing allergies in that they also did like standard allergy

(52:47):
testing on the kids over a period of two years,
as well as the muscle testing.
The muscle testing results did not match up with the standard allergy testing.
And for that, I have a point that I wanted to see if we can clarify for that.
Because when I was learning about muscle testing and applied kinesiology, that's how they call it.

(53:12):
Actually, the practitioner used the core and specific technique.
Technique, and she would say that, you know, like, it depends on the state of
your body today. Like, were you stressed?
What were you exposed to? What did you eat?
And that's why the results were different from time to time that you did.
Oh, today you can eat this, but maybe tomorrow test it again,

(53:34):
because it might be different.
Do you think it's just, it's a gimmick, basically, you Because I firmly believe,
okay, if you're doing a blood test today, but tomorrow, you know,
you're doing different things tomorrow.
So what it is to say that the test you did yesterday is that accurate,

(53:56):
even being a blood test, when, like, you might not be stressed tomorrow,
but you were stressed yesterday.
How do you address those explanations?
Determinations that particular study being
done over a two-year period of time is very
interesting because you know it wasn't it was going a long period of time not

(54:20):
just you know on one day that they did all the testing so there and there are
lots of other lots of other tests that but they They all conclude the same thing.
And I mean, it's like they've all just got the same response.
This is no better than random testing, random guessing. I'm sorry.

(54:43):
And again, sometimes those studies are done by people that really have an agenda
bias towards in favor of it.
Sometimes it's against, but the conclusions are always the same.
Always the same. So we had a lot of muscle testing there.
And I know we're going to break this down in two parts, these episodes,

(55:08):
because it's a lot to tackle, but we are talking about all of us going,
I mean, a huge part of our community and myself, even to the point that I wouldn't
go to a practitioner if they didn't know how to muscle test because of like,
it seemed like such a shortcut,
you know, like you don't need to get pricked by a needle.

(55:28):
You don't need your blood taken out. so we all kind of end up going to that
direction and we're seeing some you know amazing results,
what are your our thoughts and
other modalities let's say you know a big one that everybody talks about that
works for a lot of people is you know manifesting the healing for yourself for

(55:51):
your you're meditating or visualizing you being well and being surrounded by people that believe.
Visualize, they also visualize that you are doing well and you're doing all these things.
And even to the point of avoiding people that are telling you,

(56:12):
okay, maybe you do need to see an MD or maybe you do need to do this test,
do something a little deeper, but then thinking that That if they do that,
that is going to impact them negatively because then it's like you're seeing
an x-ray with a broken bone.
And when you see it, it freaks you out. It causes a trauma and maybe impairs

(56:35):
that healing for some reason.
Do you understand what I'm saying? I hear a lot of people in our circles and
even me, like, let's just think positive that you're going to get better.
I'm sending out positive thoughts. Yes, positive thoughts.
Never prayers. don't do prayers that's offensive right yeah so yeah.

(56:56):
I mean, it goes without saying that positive thinking is not a problem, that it's good.
And science confirms it back.
There's no question there that
science confirms that thoughts and emotions have an effect on our bodies.
Through our hearts and our brains, those positive emotions or negative trigger

(57:21):
a response with the autonomic nervous system, which, of course,
the autonomic nervous system controls your digestion,
your heart rate, your thought, you name it, your hormone production, everything.
So yes, absolutely, positive thinking is going to have and positive emotions

(57:44):
are going to have a beneficial aspect to your health.
And the Bible even confirms that too.
Proverbs 14.30 says, a heart at peace gives life to the body, but envy rots the bones.
And Proverbs 17.22 says, a cheerful heart doeth good like a cure.

(58:05):
So yeah, science confirms it, the Bible confirms it, but there's a difference.
So when you start talking about, I'm sending positive thoughts your way,
or you need to speak that positive thought out so that it is actually out in

(58:28):
the universe and we throw out that positive energy into the universe and it's
then absorbed or whatever,
that's energy-based.
That's an energy-based belief.
And that's very different than saying that just positive thinking or positive
emotions will benefit your health.
When you start saying that there is a universal energy and putting our words

(58:54):
out influences that energy, that's a dangerous thing.
Only God has the power to speak things into existence.
We're told in Genesis 1, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth,
and that he did that by speaking it into existence.

(59:16):
Satan wants to tempt us to think that we can be like God, that we have the power that He does.
And I think that that idea of putting it out there in the universe for that
energy to speak something into well-being, into whatever,
you know, bring about that result, is trying to take a power that is only God's,

(59:43):
that only God has. And so I,
We go back to that first lie, right?
Yes. About Adam and Eve going and they shouldn't eat from a certain tree.
And the serpent was so crafty. And it's like, are you sure God said that?

(01:00:05):
And you will know the difference between good and evil when you try the fruit.
And so they do that. And then here we are.
Well, on that note, just some things dawned on me.
When you were saying that and i'm just thinking about like you know
how we sometimes see these like large meditation
circles that that get together like

(01:00:26):
okay we're doing this across europe asia and
the u.s and we're all going to be meditating about impacting
global world peace or world hunger or whatever that would be that type of thing
or or right yeah yeah it's based on a belief that there's this universal energy

(01:00:49):
that we're all connected through.
And so things have an energy to them.
It also goes similar to different modalities of energy medicine,
like the belief that certain colors have a power to them, negative or positive.

(01:01:10):
Certain foods have an energy to
them and it's numbers all that yeah numbers
all of it yeah so and it's all based on this false idea that there is this universal
energy and we can control it we can influence it we can shape it so it's go

(01:01:31):
back to it goes back to us right us feeling like we have the power instead.
As you said, going through the creator.
Because ultimately, he created everything and he knows how things were designed,
how things should work and, you know, don't open certain doors.

(01:01:51):
So we talked about that. So alternative medicine. Do you find,
because you wrote this lovely book that's very well researched,
you said it took you about three years or five years?
Actually, close to five years. Close to five years to put it together.
And he approaches lots of topics, one of the ones I was even looking at homeopathy.

(01:02:11):
But have you, so we don't have to break everything down, have you find a common
theme among all these modalities?
Meaning like whoever came up with them, you know, be their beliefs or the way
that they were trying to like verify that what they were creating actually did anything.

(01:02:33):
Did you find a common theme amongst all of them?
Well, several of them, the founders, as I mentioned earlier,
did claim that they received insight from spirits, that they were led by the spirit realm.
Not all of them do, though, but some of them do. Mm-hmm.

(01:02:56):
So, yeah, that's a somewhat common theme. All of them, though,
are founded in this idea that all illness is the result of an imbalance in energy.
And so the way to fix it then is through removing the blocks that are preventing

(01:03:17):
the correct balance and flow of energy.
So, whether it's through homeopathy or allergy treatments or positive thinking
or a macrobiotic diet or wearing the right colors, using crystals.

(01:03:37):
All those things, they are trying to influence energy in order to bring health.
And that's not i mean
that's a pseudo-scientific idea and it
i believe it goes back to that
passage that i mentioned where god said that
in the last days at second second thessalonians

(01:04:01):
chapter two that god would allow satan
to use his energy to deceive people
to see whether they will believe the truth or
believe a lie okay i i
do think that's an important point because you're like we're talking
about you know people are sometimes seeing benefit and

(01:04:21):
so like kind of theme here is like well you know sometimes the evil will will
will tempt with rewards right there may be rewards to keep you on that path
right so so so that goes so we start with the tough questions It's just because.
You know, I think if I had heard what you're saying a year ago,

(01:04:46):
I would be like, OK, like, first of all, I'm no sinner. You know, I'm a good person.
I, you know, I pay my taxes. I take care of my kids.
I make sure everybody's fed.
I make sure I tend for the earth. I mean, you see this huge movement, right?
With the environment, right? Everybody's like, you know, you walk barefoot in

(01:05:08):
the earth and let's take care of the earth.
They talk a lot about the universe, right? The universe, you know,
I worship of the creation versus the creator.
And, you know, and they seem like good people. You know, they want the best
for their families. They want the best for their children.
And then you start talking about sin. I mean, do you want to talk a little bit

(01:05:28):
about sin or how How you see sin, and I know you've read the Bible cover to cover several times.
Can we talk a little bit about what that is and why do people have such,
I would even say, like, as I did, a misconception of what that is.
Like, I'm not murdering anybody.
I'm not stealing for the money. I stole when I was a child, maybe,
but I don't do that anymore.

(01:05:49):
What is this sin that you were talking about in the basic, most basic levels?
Right. So first of all, sin is just missing the standard of failing to meet
the perfect standard of holiness of God, anything that is counter to his commands.
And God is perfectly holy.

(01:06:12):
And so anything that does not measure up to his standard of holiness is sin.
If I can, Tia, and I'd like to tie your question back to the energy medicine.
I've talked a lot about science, and I want to contrast something else about science.

(01:06:32):
Science has no motive. It just is.
However, spiritual forces have a motive.
And so once we rule out, okay, this stuff can't be explained by science.
Then we start to look at the spirit realm. And, and,

(01:06:53):
All beings have motive. Everything we do is based on trying to accomplish something,
whether it's a good motive or a bad motive.
Every living thing, every being has motive in the things that they do.
The Bible tells us in John 10.10 that the devil's motive, It says the thief,

(01:07:18):
meaning the devil, comes only to steal, kill, and destroy.
That's his motive, steal, kill, and destroy.
I have come, this is Jesus speaking. Jesus says, I have come that they may have
life and have it to the full.
So we have two completely polar opposites and motives, Satan's to steal, kill, and destroy.

(01:07:42):
Destroy so let's if we
can for a minute talk about satan and why
he would have that motive if we go
back to like you said the garden where adam
and eve were god had created all things he had placed adam and eve in this perfect

(01:08:02):
absolute perfection of an environment and his His reason was that he would have
close companionship with Adam and Eve.
He walked with them, it says in the garden.
Satan comes along. He had earlier decided he wanted to be like God.
He was actually, the Bible says, one of the cherubim that was always standing in the presence of God.

(01:08:27):
And yet he decided he wanted to be God. So God kicked him out of heaven.
When he went to the earth, the Bible tells us that he shows up in the Garden
of Eden in this area of perfection to tempt Adam and Eve.
And God had given them, because God gave people free will.

(01:08:49):
He didn't make us puppets and say, you know, I'm going to pull your arm,
make you do, make you believe whatever I want you to.
He wanted his creatures to have free will and to choose whether they would accept him or reject him.
So he put one tree in the garden called the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and

(01:09:09):
Evil, which you had mentioned, Fabiola.
And he said of that
tree you may not eat or you
will surely die and that's found in i
think it's genesis chapter 2 yep 217 so adam and eve knew only one rule this
isn't hard don't don't eat of that tree you know you can look at it it's beautiful

(01:09:34):
but don't eat it so satan comes along long and he says, oh,
look at that. Doesn't that look good?
If you eat that, you will be like God. You will know good and evil.
God's holding back on you. Don't you want to know what God knows? Come on, just eat it.

(01:09:56):
And so she does. So that first temptation, interestingly enough,
is the desire for knowledge.
It's to be like God and know what God knows.
So Adam and Eve eat of the fruit, and because of it, just as God had told them,
when they eat of it, you will surely die.
Well, they didn't drop dead right then.

(01:10:18):
What he meant is that the aspect of sin created the deterioration,
the death that would now enter the world.
And so originally they would have lived forever.
Now they are slowly dying.
And so are all of us. Right, right. We all know about the deterioration that comes as we get older.

(01:10:44):
And so that sin entered the world because of their sin, every human being from
that point forward that was born of a man would have sin from the beginning.
And so his motive was, Satan's motive was to steal, kill, and destroy.

(01:11:05):
He began that process in the garden.
So if we think about energy medicine, do we see any evidence of motive?
Do we see any evidence of stealing, killing, destroying? Well,
talked about how much it costs.
I have heard people who have spent, one person told me they'd spent $100,000

(01:11:27):
on energy-based practices,
going all over the country looking for somebody that could help them using energy-based
Insurance does not cover it. No, no.
So, you know, the cost money-wise is significant often. I've heard people who

(01:11:47):
have gone bankrupt because they have spent everything on energy medicine trying to get well.
So, yes, there's that. We're seeing the stealing there.
What about the motive of killing? Well, I already shared with you the instance
of one individual who committed suicide.
I actually know of a second young man who also committed suicide following a

(01:12:13):
treatment with energy medicine.
And I've heard of many others who have developed suicidal thoughts and severe
depression once they became involved in energy medicine.
Another motive of Satan's is to destroy.
Well, I know of many who have told me that their marriages have either been

(01:12:37):
destroyed by these practices or are in danger of being destroyed.
And I actually pray for a number of couples by name who have shared with me
that there's that going on.
Just lives that have been wrecked, a number of them through these practices.

(01:13:00):
So yeah, there's that going on. But you might think, well, what about the good results?
Exactly. That's what I was thinking about. Or the people that are still together.
Or, you know, I know couples I've learned from and they're still together and
they did their ministry and they teach other people how to do it.
And it feels like, you know, when it comes to this idea of balance,

(01:13:23):
right, you're going to do these practices and you're going to get balanced,
but you never really get there.
Like you might get there for a day or for a little bit and then next week,
like you need to come back because you need to be aligned again because,
you know, life is hectic and crazy and there's all these things going on and
the poison in the food and, you know, so you need to continue, right?

(01:13:45):
You can't, to me, it was like it was never enough.
Okay, like I found this modality and that worked great. But all of a sudden,
oh, it's not working so great.
So somebody else tells me about another modality. I was like,
oh, maybe I need to learn that and maybe that will be the answer.
And then you just keep jumping from one to the other and it never ends.
Yeah, exactly. And it never ends. But when you think about the good results,

(01:14:07):
you might think, well, how does that show motive? Right.
If you think about God and Satan, this struggle of good and evil.
God is trying to save the souls of people.
He desires that people would be saved and spend eternity in heaven with him.
Satan desires to steal, kill, and destroy, to damn the people's souls for all of eternity with him.

(01:14:33):
Mm or like a battle where you've got generals and the generals are trying to
make strategic decisions about,
well, I can sacrifice this and I'm going to do this.

(01:14:54):
You might be familiar with the saying, you can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
And it's the same thing. If it is advantageous to Satan for somebody to have
a good experience, then why not? It's great PR.
Exactly. Exactly. So like in my case, because of what happened with my thyroid,

(01:15:20):
I ended up teaching others, leading others into it, and all these different things.
Somebody died because I got involved in it. I would have not continued my involvement
if my thyroid had not gotten better.
So strategy is a big part of what Satan does.

(01:15:41):
And if somebody, it's worth doing something good for someone to convince them
to keep doing it, to lead others astray, then why wouldn't he? Yeah.
So that thing about motive is important.
And, but if we think, go, go back to that verse, John 10, 10,

(01:16:02):
and it says, Jesus desire is that we would have life to the full.
And I'd like to, if it's all right, talk about how can we have that life to the full?

(01:16:31):
I love that. I love that.
But he does want us to choose him. And that's why he gave us free will.
But the Bible says in Romans 3.23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
And so, as I said earlier, sin is anything that is against God's righteous commands.
If I give you an illustration to illustrate how some people may be worse sinners

(01:16:56):
than others, but it doesn't matter.
Let's say that you're in a rock throwing contest.
Okay. This sounds ridiculous, but it makes the point.
So if you went outside your house and you picked up a rock and I went outside
of mine and we were going to see who could throw the rock all the way to the moon.

(01:17:19):
Yeah, none of us. Now you might make it farther than I, because you're younger
and maybe be stronger than I am.
If Leo threw it, he'd definitely make it farther to the moon than I did.
But he's not going to make it all the way to the moon, right?
He's going to fall short.
And that's what that verse Romans 3.23 is saying, for all have sinned and fall

(01:17:41):
short of the glory of God.
God's perfect. He's way up there. He's the moon. And no matter how hard we try,
it is not going to be good enough.
So what are we to do?
Well, Romans 6.23 tells us even worse news. It says, for the wages of sin is death.
A wage is what we earn. So that verse is saying that because of our sin,

(01:18:06):
what we deserve, what we have earned is actually death, eternal death,
eternal separation from God in hell.
And so if the story ended there, we would all be depressed and go home and just say, who cares?
Everyone's not going to matter. There is good news.

(01:18:28):
Romans 5.8 says, but God demonstrates his own love toward us in this.
While we were still sinners, ours, Christ died for us.
And so Jesus is God the Son.
He came to this earth, was born as the baby, not conceived through a man, but by the Holy Spirit.

(01:18:50):
So he is the only one that was born without sin.
He did not sin throughout his life, but he lived and experienced life like we
do. so he knew what it was to be in pain, to hurt, to be rejected, to suffer.
When he became a man, he started his ministry, and he healed people, he preached, and so on.

(01:19:16):
At the end of that time, he was crucified for no reason of his own.
He had never done anything wrong, but God allowed it to happen.
He caused it to happen because the only way for us, you and me,
and anyone who would believe to have eternal life is if Jesus paid that wage that sin requires,

(01:19:42):
the wage of death.
And so Jesus died on the cross in our place for our sin, and he paid,
the Bible says he satisfied the wrath of God for us.
And so three days later, he rose from the dead.
And we know that that's important because, you know, anybody can die. Right.

(01:20:06):
And it doesn't prove anything. Right. But nobody can rise from the dead.
I mean, some people will tell you, oh, I know, I don't know,
Shiva or someone. There was some story that was similar, and they did it too.
But Jesus did. He rose from the dead. And there were many witnesses,
and 40 days after that, he ascended back up into heaven, the Bible tells us.

(01:20:33):
And as he left, he said, I am going to prepare a place for you.
And he is in heaven preparing this amazing place for those who will believe in him. So.
Ephesians 2, 8 and 9 says, for by grace are you saved through faith.
So let me define some terms for by grace. Grace means we don't deserve it.

(01:20:57):
Okay. Remember I said, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. That's grace.
We didn't deserve it, but he did it anyway.
For by grace are you saved through faith. What is faith? It's trust.
It's just belief. belief through faith. It is the gift of God, not of works.

(01:21:18):
So a lot of people, when you ask them, are you going to go to heaven?
They're like, well, you know, I give money to that poor people.
I see begging on the street.
I've worked at my church. I've gone to church before I, you know,
and they'll list things that they've done.
But according to Ephesians 2, 8, 9, that doesn't matter.

(01:21:40):
It's not by works. It's a free gift of God for those who believe.
And the reason it says is so that no one should boast.
So a lot of people think that those works will get them to heaven.
It's kind of like saying Jesus is, he's like a Ferris wheel.

(01:22:02):
And instead of just getting in the Ferris wheel and letting the Ferris wheel
take you around, I'm going to get on and I'm going to climb the Ferris wheel
to get around the whole thing.
His yoke is easy. Right. Yeah. And the Bible says his yoke is easy. Yeah. So.
It is a gift, but if I were to give you a gift at Christmastime and you just

(01:22:27):
said, Oh, that's so pretty.
Thank you, Marcy. You're so nice.
And then you took it and you put it on a shelf and you never opened it.
What good does whatever's inside do you? It does nothing for you.
Well, the same is true with salvation.
God has given us this gift through his son, paying the price of our sin on the cross by his blood.

(01:22:52):
But we personally, each individual has to open that gift to make it ours.
And we do that through faith. And it's just a simple putting your trust in Christ alone for salvation.
And if you don't mind, I would love to just take a second and pray in case there's

(01:23:13):
anybody out there that's listening who has never done that before.
And they think, you know, I believe that Jesus died on the cross and I want to put my faith in him.
A prayer doesn't save you. A prayer is a work. That's not going to save you.
It's not magic words that you say, but it's just a way of communicating what's in your heart.

(01:23:36):
God knows your heart and we just want to communicate it to him.
So if you're out there and you're listening to this and you have never trusted
in Christ as your Savior, just repeat after me in your own heart and let's pray.
Dear Heavenly Father, I know that you are the Savior of the world.

(01:24:00):
I believe that you sent your son, Jesus, to die on the cross for my sins,
that you were raised after three days and are back in heaven preparing a place
for me. I know that I'm a sinner.
I accept your free gift of salvation through the blood of Jesus.

(01:24:20):
Help me to live for you. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
Amen. Amen. Thank you so much. Thank you.
That was lovely. So I know this part, we talked about energy medicine mostly,
and you talk a little bit about sin, and you talk a little bit about an alternative
to the alternative, right?

(01:24:41):
And so that's what we're going to discuss in our next episode. So part two.
But for now, you just have this lovely book that you just published,
and I know you have published other books.
Where can people find you, Marci, if they want to learn more about your ministry
and your journey and all the research that you have done? Yeah, thanks for asking.

(01:25:04):
Heart and Mind Ministries is my website. It's my ministry.
And so heartandmindministries.com, you can find links to different books,
to the different articles that I've written. and there's also a contact form
I love to hear from people.

(01:25:24):
So, and especially if by some chance you have trusted Christ for the first time
hearing this, please, please reach out to me and let me know so I can pray for
you and encourage you in the faith.
And if you have any questions, I'm happy to correspond as well.
But through that website's the best way to do it. And then I also have a YouTube

(01:25:48):
channel with a number of videos teaching on these different topics and on health.
And that's also Heart and Mind Ministries on YouTube, right?
And we're going to share all those links on the show notes.
Marci, thank you so much for your time today. What a pleasure.
What a blessing. Thank you, God, for your grace.

(01:26:10):
And we will see you very soon for part two of this amazing conversation.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
All right. Well, that was another fantastic episode with Marcy.
I don't know. I'm still coming to terms with all this,
but I really enjoyed talking with her and it exceeded my expectations because

(01:26:34):
I know we've talked a little bit because neither of us have been able to finish
the book yet because we just got it.
But I had a lot of questions, and I really thought she did a fantastic job,
you know, just walking through it slowly and not— Just peacefully, too.
Yeah, yeah. Because, I mean, again, we don't know what the questions—what questions

(01:26:57):
are going to come out of this.
Well, and I think that an important caveat to all this is that,
you know, we're not saying, you know, rush to Western medicine.
Right. You know what I mean? We're not saying, oh, we had Western medicine wrong.
I mean, we are in the same boat as y'all.
Just know that we have a lot of go-tos, and I just feel like this is worth it.

(01:27:23):
I mean, life is short. Again, God is patient.
He's been waiting for all of us, but He wants us to choose.
He wants us to be with Him if we want to be with Him.
And so that's the bottom line. And it's like you having that,
I mean, for ladies, you know, that, that guy that can't leave us alone,

(01:27:43):
you know, we're like, go away, go away. Why are you talking about me that way?
So, you know, like the guy wants us to be with him because we're choosing him, right?
We don't want to be with him against his will. And God is, it's like that too.
He wants us to choose him if, if we, if we want that. Yeah.

(01:28:04):
All right. Well, another episode in the books.
This is kind of episode two of our re-kickoff. Re-kickoff.
And we hope that you all continue to join us. But Fabi, what do you want to tell everybody?
I don't know. I think we need to change this bumper soon. All right.
We'll work on changing it. Okay.

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