June 16, 2026 • 24 mins
In this episode, Dr. Christine shares reflections from attending a patient’s embryo transfer and explores the emotional, energetic, and deeply human aspects of fertility that often get overlooked.
While fertility conversations are frequently centered around hormones, timelines, testing, and outcomes, the reality is that the journey to parenthood is also one of uncertainty, transformation, surrender, hope, disappointment, joy, and growth. Through the lens of Traditional Chinese Medicine, this episode explores the connection between the heart and the womb, the role of emotional well-being in reproductive health, and why supporting the whole person matters just as much as supporting the physical body.
Dr. Christine also shares a powerful patient story about anxiety, fertility, unexpected surprises, and the profound transformation that occurs as we move through the journey of becoming parents.
⸻
In This Episode:
- Why fertility is about much more than hormones, timelines, and test results
- The emotional and spiritual aspects of trying to conceive
- How Chinese medicine supports fertility beyond the physical body
- The value of having a space where all emotions are welcome during a fertility journey
- Why more fertility clinics are recognizing the benefits of integrative care
- What it looks like to receive acupuncture before and after embryo transfer
- A patient story about fertility struggles, anxiety, and an unexpected pregnancy
- The journey from embryo retrieval to transfer and everything in between
- A Traditional Chinese Medicine perspective on the heart-womb connection
- The role of joy, openness, and emotional nourishment in reproductive health
- How motherhood transforms us long before a baby arrives
- Learning to live with uncertainty, surrender, and trust
- Holding multiple emotions at the same time during fertility and parenthood
- Why perfectionism often shows up during fertility and motherhood
- The importance of repair, grace, and embracing our humanity as parents
- How support systems can look different for every individual and every fertility journey
- Finding the balance between structure, control, and flexibility during fertility treatment
- Why whole-person support can make a meaningful difference throughout the fertility experience
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Tao of
Humaning, where we explore thephysical, energetic, emotional,
and spiritual aspects of what itmeans to be human together.
I'm your host, Dr.
Christine, and I'm so thrilledyou've decided to join me for
today's conversation.
In today's episode, I want totalk about fertility and how it
(00:24):
is such a whole personexperience.
A lot of times we think aboutfertility as embryos and
hormones and timelines, andwhile those are all aspects,
very real aspects of thisjourney for a couple, a lot of
(00:45):
what I see in the clinic isaround the big picture journey
of the desire to become aparent, and then the frustration
and disappointment of that.
And then going to, you know,someone like myself and trying
(01:10):
to conceive naturally for aperiod of time and working on
regulating the cycle, and thenpotentially working with a
reproductive endocrinologist andexploring assisted reproductive
technologies, and theneventually getting to that point
where you actually get to bringyour baby and your, you know,
(01:32):
all of the culmination of all ofthat work, right?
When you get to bring the babyhome and you have your person,
right?
There's a really, reallypowerful time in a couple's
life.
And it's really interestingbecause there really isn't a lot
of conversation around theemotional and even spiritual
(01:54):
aspects of that fertilityjourney.
And that's oftentimes where Ithink, you know, people want to
come and see me in the clinicfor obviously the physiological
support that acupuncture andChinese medicine can bring to a
woman's cycle.
And also because I can hold thatspace of, you know, I often tell
(02:15):
my patients, I'm like, you cancome in here however you are.
Like you can show up and beangry, and you can show up and
not want to talk about it, andyou can show up and be sad, and
like whatever it is that you'refeeling along this journey, come
here then.
And we can have some clearingand we can have some clarity and
(02:39):
we can keep things movingforward towards that goal of
bringing that baby home, right?
So often we think about thisjourney as like, you know,
hormones, timelines, and that'skind of it, right?
Like, does the embryo likethere's so much focus on the
data and the human aspect isoftentimes just not talked about
(03:03):
enough.
So I want to chat about it withyou guys.
Um, one of the things that I Isee more of the Western care
providers, you know, recognizingthe benefit of having holistic
care.
You know, a lot of times we'reeven welcomed.
Um, I'm in Southern California,so depending on where you're
(03:23):
listening from, but where Ilive, a lot of reproductive
endocrinologists will allow usto come in and meet our patients
on the day of transfer.
So when they get to that pointwhere they have the embryo and
it's ready to transfer, a lot oftimes we can go in and do an
acupuncture visit before thesession, before the transfer,
(03:43):
and then again after thetransfer, and then we continue
care in our own office, but wecontinue care for the first
trimester with those with thatparent.
So there's um a lot of benefitrecognized where I live, which
is really absolutely miraculous.
I know I've lived in other areaswhere that's not the case, and
(04:07):
there's you know more of adistance, and people have to
look outside of their careproviders for any kind of like a
holistic support.
So um, yeah, if you are goingthrough a fertility journey and
you're wanting to have someadditional holistic whole person
support, um, you could messageme and I could help connect you.
(04:30):
There are maybe resources inyour area if you can find a
practitioner of Chinese medicinewho specializes in fertility and
women's health.
Um, that could be reallyamazing.
I was thinking about today'sepisode, and I recently got to
attend actually two of mypatients' embryo transfers.
(04:50):
Um, and it is such a gift.
It is one of my favoriteservices to offer and such an
honor to be there and witness,you know, the culmination of all
of this journey, right?
And even still, like once youget to the transfer part,
there's still so many milestonesof you know, the 10-day wait.
(05:11):
And then is the test even goingto be positive?
And if the test is positive, arethe numbers looking really good,
right, in those early weeks?
And then is there a heartbeat?
And that, you know, all of themilestones I describe it as, you
know, you're kind of peelingthat onion, right?
And having each time you reach amilestone, it's like the breath
(05:33):
becomes a little bit deeper, andthe kind of trust that there is
gonna be this baby at the end ofthis journey, right?
One of the women um that I gotto attend her transfer recently
has such an interesting story,and she first came to see me.
Gosh, it was probably three anda half years ago, and she was
(05:57):
having trouble getting embryosum that were uh high enough
quality to be able to freeze,and so she had heard about
acupuncture being supportive foregg quality, which it is, and
came to see me.
Um, we started working together,and she also presented with
(06:19):
quite a bit of anxiety, and thathad been something that had been
part of her picture for for anumber of years.
It wasn't only related with thefertility journey, um, but it
was something that we could workon and support.
So we worked on supporting that,and we worked on supporting her
cycle and the egg quality, weworked on overall energy, a
(06:40):
number of different things, um,angles we were supporting her
with.
And then she went and did thenext retrieval and got good
results.
So they had one embryo and theywere ecstatic, so thrilled.
So they were preparing forembryo transfer.
And in the you know, couple ofweeks prior, she came back in in
(07:02):
the office and she looked at meand she had tears in her eyes,
and she was like, Dr.
Christine, you're not gonnabelieve this.
I'm pregnant.
And I was like, Oh my gosh,what?
Like, that's the coolest,coolest.
So she was pregnant.
Um, she got pregnant naturallybefore, like literally in the
(07:25):
month before she was doing herembryo transfer.
And so that was just kind of acool story.
And um, you know, now she has ahealthy son and he's fantastic,
and they were gearing up to doto transfer this one embryo that
they've had for now three years.
So it's been it was we were kindof laughing because it was uh
(07:49):
timeline-wise, you know, thatembryo was created before her
son was born, and so there'slike a weird way that the embryo
is older than the brother who'sreally gonna be the older
brother.
Um, just funny things aboutfertility journeys that like you
don't think about.
Anyway, they just had theirembryo transfer and I got to
(08:12):
attend, and it was so sobeautiful.
And she asked me to stay in theroom for the treatment after the
transfer, um, just to chit-chatand like kind of debrief a
little bit, and uh yeah, it wasjust really sweet.
She was sharing a lot about herjourney and the process of you
(08:37):
know going through fertility andyou know how different she feels
now than she did when she firststarted, and in that we talked
about you know the connectionbetween the heart in Chinese
medicine and the uterus.
So there's a channel that'scalled a Bao Mai, and it's a
direct connection.
And I'll talk about this a lot.
(08:59):
Um direct connection between theuterus and the heart.
And so I talk with patients alot about the importance of joy
and the importance of doingthings in your fertility
journey, honestly, just in yourlife, that aside from fertility
or whatnot, but doing thingsthat open the heart also have
(09:23):
that mirror relationship withthe womb.
And so if we're looking to beopen and receptive in our wombs,
especially focusing on the heartspace being open and receptive
is really actively supportingyour reproductive health.
And I think that's somethingthat we don't talk about enough.
So joy, go do the things thatmake you feel joyful, that will
(09:47):
help your fertility.
And she was talking about, youknow, the transformation that
happens in motherhood and thatfirst year postpartum, and what
a wild journey that is.
And so now, you know, she's comethis full arc, right?
Of like trying to conceive andthen conceiving naturally, and
(10:10):
then the first parts ofmotherhood, and then now back
again to transfer this secondbaby, and just the the amount of
wisdom and understanding thatcomes through the transformation
of motherhood.
And we've talked about this alot in here too, but it is that
(10:34):
you know, learning to live withuncertainty and learning to live
with surrender and trust, andyou know, understanding that
we're capable, right, ofwhatever comes our way.
And the other aspect that wewere talking about was, you
(10:56):
know, this ability that we haveto hold a lot of emotions at the
same time, seemingly conflictingemotions.
And that was something, youknow, that she really noticed in
her journey as well, right?
That she could hold theseanxious thoughts and she could
also hold the space of beingreally loving and open and
(11:20):
present with her son.
And we talked about howinteresting that is as a mom
because you really do, you know,the things that we beat
ourselves up for, we're gonnatalk about this in another
episode too.
But the things that we beatourselves up for, like our kids
don't notice or don't care.
(11:43):
And I remember her in particularwhen we were talking about
anxiety and her feeling anxious,and she was worried that she was
gonna be, you know, not ideallya perfect mom, although that
wasn't the words that she wouldhave chosen at the time, but
it's like our perfectionist sideshows up, right?
Because we want to do the bestfor our kids and we want to be
(12:05):
the best version of ourselves,and somehow we set ourselves up
for that expectation that that'sgonna be all of the time, and
that's not realistic, and it'salso not human.
And so, you know, her and I havehad a lot of these conversations
over the years of it's okay forour kids to see our human side,
(12:26):
it's good for them, it'shealthy, it's normal, it's
beneficial for them to see thefull range of human experience,
right?
Including not feeling great andnot being able to, you know,
show up the way that we want to.
It's so good for them to be ableto see that too, right?
(12:47):
Or for them to be able to see usmake mistakes, right?
And then have that repair.
I talk with so many moms aboutthat, especially in the toddler
years when things get a littlemore intense, and that's you
know, postpartum, I don't know,gosh, the first three years,
right?
They're just a little bitbananas, let's be honest.
(13:10):
And it also brings up all of ourstuff.
So as moms, we're exhausted andwe have these humans, you know,
that are quite dependent on usat that age.
And they're gonna reflect thingsback to us that brings up our
stuff, right?
(13:30):
And I don't think that's a badthing.
I actually think it's great.
And it's okay that it looksmessy, and it's okay to make
mistakes and have the repair andbe perfectly, imperfectly,
perfectly imperfect.
Yeah, perfectly imperfect as ahuman, a human parent who's
(13:54):
navigating, you know, thisjourney for the first time.
It's like you're only a firsttime parent once, right?
And I think there's so muchgrace that I know I have
experienced for my own parents,and just seeing like, oh wow,
like they really were justhumans trying to figure it out,
(14:17):
right?
Like they're here, maybe doingthis for the first time in this
context, right?
Like we don't come withinstruction manuals, and yeah, I
think having that grace piecefor ourselves is such a gift,
and being able to verbalize thatto our kids.
(14:40):
So having, you know, if thereare moments when we feel like we
responded in anger and we were,you know, shouting or something
and we didn't want to be thatway, talk to them about it,
right?
Like they're also little humansand they're also experiencing
things and relating for thefirst time with us, right?
That's the thing with relating,is that the other people are not
(15:02):
having the same inner dialogueand lineup of their energy as we
do, right?
We sort of expect them to, andthen it's like, oh wait.
I love the five elements, um,five element lens for looking at
relating with different peopleand relating with ourselves
first.
I'll probably have a class heresoon about the different um five
(15:26):
element personalities and how wecan utilize that as a tool to
understand ourselves and tounderstand the people in our
families is probably easiestfirst, because especially as
parents, when we look at ourkids, if you have more,
especially if you have more thanone kid, then it's like, oh, I
really see like this kid issuper fiery and this kid is
(15:47):
super watery, and it now itmakes so much sense why they're
completely different.
And also, how do you supportthose two different elements,
right?
Based on your element.
I know it's super fun.
Um, anyway, thinking about youknow, fertility and this whole
(16:07):
person experience that it is, isreally such a gift to give
yourself.
If you're on a fertility journeyand you're trying to conceive,
finding support that views thewhole person can make an
incredible difference in yourexperience through that journey.
(16:29):
Because a lot of times, youknow, a Western medical office,
they are busy and they are, youknow, doing all of the things
that they know to do, right?
And sometimes you leave theoffice and you're like, oh gosh,
I have these questions, right?
Coming in to see someone likemyself, like I can sit and spend
more time with you and go overthe different, even just the
(16:52):
medications, or you know,encourage you to talk to your
doctor when that's appropriate,and like having a support where
you can come and kind of debriefthrough the experience, really
good.
Also, a lot of families differwildly in terms of the support
that they bring in outside ofthemselves.
(17:16):
So I know couples who have gonethrough a fertility journey and
not told a soul.
Like I literally was the onlyperson that the wife would talk
to about her journey, aside fromher doctor and her husband.
And that's great.
I mean, sometimes you need thatin case, you know, it takes a
(17:36):
long time and you don't want tohave that, you know, as
well-meaning as people can bechecking in and stuff.
Sometimes you don't necessarilywant to talk about it.
Sometimes there are heartachesand disappointments and things
along the way that you don'twant to have to talk about every
single time.
You just need that kind of thatbarrier to be able to hold your
(18:00):
space and kind of get throughit.
Um, I know other couples whoreally love telling everyone in
their community so that ifthings do not go as planned and
they have hurdles along the way,they have that support system
ready to kind of catch them andsupport them through it.
(18:21):
Honestly, it's I've seen couplesgo through multiple rounds of
IVF and choose a differentsupport structure each time.
And I think also knowing thatthat's very normal is and okay,
like you don't have to choosethe same thing every time.
It's normal to have differentneeds, right?
(18:43):
It's the same with pregnancieswhen you get there.
Sometimes in a pregnancy, whenyou're, for example, postpartum,
sometimes you don't want manyvisitors and you want to just be
in a little cocoon and have yourwhatever it is that you need and
not have the distraction orinput from outside.
Other times, you know, peopleare like day out, day of birth,
(19:06):
right?
Like there's lots of peoplethere, and it's a whole
community adventure.
All of those are great.
It's really again about knowingyourselves and what's going to
work best for you and yourpartner, and and then expressing
that to your community, right?
And even if you change your mindmidway, I've supported patients
(19:29):
who, you know, at first theytold a bunch of people and then
they had uh sharing regret.
And they were like, oh my god,what did I do?
And then they had to go back tothose people, or they didn't
have to, they chose to go backto those people and say, Hey, um
I got kind of freaked out afterI told everyone, and now I'm
(19:50):
feeling a lot of pressure abouthow my body responds to the
medications or whatever it is.
And I'd really love if you justfollow my lead and I'll
communicate to you updates whenI'm ready.
Perfectly reasonable, right?
Like as humans, sometimes we getexcited about things and we're
like, yeah.
And then when the reality ofwhatever it is comes about,
(20:13):
we're like, wait, no, I changedmy mind.
It's okay.
You can change your mind inthis.
Because it is this whole personexperience, and we are humans,
and these journeys are going tobring up things that are
surprising, most likely.
(20:35):
And if the fertility journeydoesn't bring up things that are
surprising, most likely birthand new momness will.
So somewhere in that trajectory,there's a lot of room for
humanness, and there's a lot ofroom for you know, learning to
surrender and learning to have,I don't know, safety in the
(20:59):
chaos, I think is what comes tomind.
Learning to feel like you trustyourself, you trust the process,
you trust your partner, andletting things unfold a bit
without so much need to control.
And I think that's the otherpiece that I was thinking about
with fertility, at least fortoday, um I could have another
(21:23):
topic I could chat about for along time.
Um, but another piece aboutfertility is looking at, you
know, whether like what's theright amount of things that you
want to be doing.
Because what I've seen over theyears in supporting women in a
(21:46):
fertility journey is that somewomen really relax when they
feel more in control.
And that by that I mean likereally more rigid in their
nutrition, rigid in theirsupports, you know, more not
rigid, structured, maybe let'suse structured, because it's
more like having the routine andbeing able to ultimately feel
(22:10):
like we've checked all theboxes, so that when we go in to
you know, trying to conceivelike a retrieval or transfer, or
even trying to conceivenaturally when it's ovulation
time, having done all of thosethings and checked all of those
boxes, that can allow us to feelmore relaxed and open and
(22:34):
fertile, right?
Receptive again, it actuallyopens the heart.
For other women, having thatmuch structure and rigidity is
really stressful, and what thatdoes energetically is it
constricts and it contracts, andit makes them feel a bit more
(22:54):
like they're beating themselvesup because they're not able to
meet that checklist easily.
Is that making sense?
So I always talk to my patientsabout that.
Like, what is it that's gonnafeel most supportive for you?
And understanding that that maychange also, and having those
(23:16):
regular check-ins is sovaluable, and being able to have
support, whether it's you know,you might listen to this podcast
and you might share these thingswith your partner, and that's
enough, that's a good supportfor you, and you can kind of
talk through these differentaspects of it for other people.
You might want to add in aholistic provider, right?
(23:40):
Um, and if so, you can find onein your area, DM me.
I'm happy to help people findpractitioners.
I really love connecting peoplewith other people.
So if I can help you, if you'rein Orange County, California,
and you want to come see me, Iwould love that.
All of the information to get intouch with me is in the show
(24:01):
notes below.
And you can always leave me amessage, comment.
I see everything.
If you have questions about howChinese medicine views fertility
and cycle health, go ahead andmessage me because it gives me
great ideas to chat about onhere as well.
So thank you for listeningtoday, and I look forward to
(24:21):
seeing you next time.
Hello and welcome to another episode of The Tao of
Humaning, where we explore thephysical, energetic, emotional,
and spiritual aspects of what itmeans to be human together.
I'm your host, Dr.
Christine, and I'm so thrilledyou've decided to join me for
today's conversation.
In today's episode, I want totalk about fertility and how it
(00:24):
is such a whole personexperience.
A lot of times we think aboutfertility as embryos and
hormones and timelines, andwhile those are all aspects,
very real aspects of thisjourney for a couple, a lot of
(00:45):
what I see in the clinic isaround the big picture journey
of the desire to become aparent, and then the frustration
and disappointment of that.
And then going to, you know,someone like myself and trying
(01:10):
to conceive naturally for aperiod of time and working on
regulating the cycle, and thenpotentially working with a
reproductive endocrinologist andexploring assisted reproductive
technologies, and theneventually getting to that point
where you actually get to bringyour baby and your, you know,
(01:32):
all of the culmination of all ofthat work, right?
When you get to bring the babyhome and you have your person,
right?
There's a really, reallypowerful time in a couple's
life.
And it's really interestingbecause there really isn't a lot
of conversation around theemotional and even spiritual
(01:54):
aspects of that fertilityjourney.
And that's oftentimes where Ithink, you know, people want to
come and see me in the clinicfor obviously the physiological
support that acupuncture andChinese medicine can bring to a
woman's cycle.
And also because I can hold thatspace of, you know, I often tell
(02:15):
my patients, I'm like, you cancome in here however you are.
Like you can show up and beangry, and you can show up and
not want to talk about it, andyou can show up and be sad, and
like whatever it is that you'refeeling along this journey, come
here then.
And we can have some clearingand we can have some clarity and
(02:39):
we can keep things movingforward towards that goal of
bringing that baby home, right?
So often we think about thisjourney as like, you know,
hormones, timelines, and that'skind of it, right?
Like, does the embryo likethere's so much focus on the
data and the human aspect isoftentimes just not talked about
(03:03):
enough.
So I want to chat about it withyou guys.
Um, one of the things that I Isee more of the Western care
providers, you know, recognizingthe benefit of having holistic
care.
You know, a lot of times we'reeven welcomed.
Um, I'm in Southern California,so depending on where you're
(03:23):
listening from, but where Ilive, a lot of reproductive
endocrinologists will allow usto come in and meet our patients
on the day of transfer.
So when they get to that pointwhere they have the embryo and
it's ready to transfer, a lot oftimes we can go in and do an
acupuncture visit before thesession, before the transfer,
(03:43):
and then again after thetransfer, and then we continue
care in our own office, but wecontinue care for the first
trimester with those with thatparent.
So there's um a lot of benefitrecognized where I live, which
is really absolutely miraculous.
I know I've lived in other areaswhere that's not the case, and
(04:07):
there's you know more of adistance, and people have to
look outside of their careproviders for any kind of like a
holistic support.
So um, yeah, if you are goingthrough a fertility journey and
you're wanting to have someadditional holistic whole person
support, um, you could messageme and I could help connect you.
(04:30):
There are maybe resources inyour area if you can find a
practitioner of Chinese medicinewho specializes in fertility and
women's health.
Um, that could be reallyamazing.
I was thinking about today'sepisode, and I recently got to
attend actually two of mypatients' embryo transfers.
(04:50):
Um, and it is such a gift.
It is one of my favoriteservices to offer and such an
honor to be there and witness,you know, the culmination of all
of this journey, right?
And even still, like once youget to the transfer part,
there's still so many milestonesof you know, the 10-day wait.
(05:11):
And then is the test even goingto be positive?
And if the test is positive, arethe numbers looking really good,
right, in those early weeks?
And then is there a heartbeat?
And that, you know, all of themilestones I describe it as, you
know, you're kind of peelingthat onion, right?
And having each time you reach amilestone, it's like the breath
(05:33):
becomes a little bit deeper, andthe kind of trust that there is
gonna be this baby at the end ofthis journey, right?
One of the women um that I gotto attend her transfer recently
has such an interesting story,and she first came to see me.
Gosh, it was probably three anda half years ago, and she was
(05:57):
having trouble getting embryosum that were uh high enough
quality to be able to freeze,and so she had heard about
acupuncture being supportive foregg quality, which it is, and
came to see me.
Um, we started working together,and she also presented with
(06:19):
quite a bit of anxiety, and thathad been something that had been
part of her picture for for anumber of years.
It wasn't only related with thefertility journey, um, but it
was something that we could workon and support.
So we worked on supporting that,and we worked on supporting her
cycle and the egg quality, weworked on overall energy, a
(06:40):
number of different things, um,angles we were supporting her
with.
And then she went and did thenext retrieval and got good
results.
So they had one embryo and theywere ecstatic, so thrilled.
So they were preparing forembryo transfer.
And in the you know, couple ofweeks prior, she came back in in
(07:02):
the office and she looked at meand she had tears in her eyes,
and she was like, Dr.
Christine, you're not gonnabelieve this.
I'm pregnant.
And I was like, Oh my gosh,what?
Like, that's the coolest,coolest.
So she was pregnant.
Um, she got pregnant naturallybefore, like literally in the
(07:25):
month before she was doing herembryo transfer.
And so that was just kind of acool story.
And um, you know, now she has ahealthy son and he's fantastic,
and they were gearing up to doto transfer this one embryo that
they've had for now three years.
So it's been it was we were kindof laughing because it was uh
(07:49):
timeline-wise, you know, thatembryo was created before her
son was born, and so there'slike a weird way that the embryo
is older than the brother who'sreally gonna be the older
brother.
Um, just funny things aboutfertility journeys that like you
don't think about.
Anyway, they just had theirembryo transfer and I got to
(08:12):
attend, and it was so sobeautiful.
And she asked me to stay in theroom for the treatment after the
transfer, um, just to chit-chatand like kind of debrief a
little bit, and uh yeah, it wasjust really sweet.
She was sharing a lot about herjourney and the process of you
(08:37):
know going through fertility andyou know how different she feels
now than she did when she firststarted, and in that we talked
about you know the connectionbetween the heart in Chinese
medicine and the uterus.
So there's a channel that'scalled a Bao Mai, and it's a
direct connection.
And I'll talk about this a lot.
(08:59):
Um direct connection between theuterus and the heart.
And so I talk with patients alot about the importance of joy
and the importance of doingthings in your fertility
journey, honestly, just in yourlife, that aside from fertility
or whatnot, but doing thingsthat open the heart also have
(09:23):
that mirror relationship withthe womb.
And so if we're looking to beopen and receptive in our wombs,
especially focusing on the heartspace being open and receptive
is really actively supportingyour reproductive health.
And I think that's somethingthat we don't talk about enough.
So joy, go do the things thatmake you feel joyful, that will
(09:47):
help your fertility.
And she was talking about, youknow, the transformation that
happens in motherhood and thatfirst year postpartum, and what
a wild journey that is.
And so now, you know, she's comethis full arc, right?
Of like trying to conceive andthen conceiving naturally, and
(10:10):
then the first parts ofmotherhood, and then now back
again to transfer this secondbaby, and just the the amount of
wisdom and understanding thatcomes through the transformation
of motherhood.
And we've talked about this alot in here too, but it is that
(10:34):
you know, learning to live withuncertainty and learning to live
with surrender and trust, andyou know, understanding that
we're capable, right, ofwhatever comes our way.
And the other aspect that wewere talking about was, you
(10:56):
know, this ability that we haveto hold a lot of emotions at the
same time, seemingly conflictingemotions.
And that was something, youknow, that she really noticed in
her journey as well, right?
That she could hold theseanxious thoughts and she could
also hold the space of beingreally loving and open and
(11:20):
present with her son.
And we talked about howinteresting that is as a mom
because you really do, you know,the things that we beat
ourselves up for, we're gonnatalk about this in another
episode too.
But the things that we beatourselves up for, like our kids
don't notice or don't care.
(11:43):
And I remember her in particularwhen we were talking about
anxiety and her feeling anxious,and she was worried that she was
gonna be, you know, not ideallya perfect mom, although that
wasn't the words that she wouldhave chosen at the time, but
it's like our perfectionist sideshows up, right?
Because we want to do the bestfor our kids and we want to be
(12:05):
the best version of ourselves,and somehow we set ourselves up
for that expectation that that'sgonna be all of the time, and
that's not realistic, and it'salso not human.
And so, you know, her and I havehad a lot of these conversations
over the years of it's okay forour kids to see our human side,
(12:26):
it's good for them, it'shealthy, it's normal, it's
beneficial for them to see thefull range of human experience,
right?
Including not feeling great andnot being able to, you know,
show up the way that we want to.
It's so good for them to be ableto see that too, right?
(12:47):
Or for them to be able to see usmake mistakes, right?
And then have that repair.
I talk with so many moms aboutthat, especially in the toddler
years when things get a littlemore intense, and that's you
know, postpartum, I don't know,gosh, the first three years,
right?
They're just a little bitbananas, let's be honest.
(13:10):
And it also brings up all of ourstuff.
So as moms, we're exhausted andwe have these humans, you know,
that are quite dependent on usat that age.
And they're gonna reflect thingsback to us that brings up our
stuff, right?
(13:30):
And I don't think that's a badthing.
I actually think it's great.
And it's okay that it looksmessy, and it's okay to make
mistakes and have the repair andbe perfectly, imperfectly,
perfectly imperfect.
Yeah, perfectly imperfect as ahuman, a human parent who's
(13:54):
navigating, you know, thisjourney for the first time.
It's like you're only a firsttime parent once, right?
And I think there's so muchgrace that I know I have
experienced for my own parents,and just seeing like, oh wow,
like they really were justhumans trying to figure it out,
(14:17):
right?
Like they're here, maybe doingthis for the first time in this
context, right?
Like we don't come withinstruction manuals, and yeah, I
think having that grace piecefor ourselves is such a gift,
and being able to verbalize thatto our kids.
(14:40):
So having, you know, if thereare moments when we feel like we
responded in anger and we were,you know, shouting or something
and we didn't want to be thatway, talk to them about it,
right?
Like they're also little humansand they're also experiencing
things and relating for thefirst time with us, right?
That's the thing with relating,is that the other people are not
(15:02):
having the same inner dialogueand lineup of their energy as we
do, right?
We sort of expect them to, andthen it's like, oh wait.
I love the five elements, um,five element lens for looking at
relating with different peopleand relating with ourselves
first.
I'll probably have a class heresoon about the different um five
(15:26):
element personalities and how wecan utilize that as a tool to
understand ourselves and tounderstand the people in our
families is probably easiestfirst, because especially as
parents, when we look at ourkids, if you have more,
especially if you have more thanone kid, then it's like, oh, I
really see like this kid issuper fiery and this kid is
(15:47):
super watery, and it now itmakes so much sense why they're
completely different.
And also, how do you supportthose two different elements,
right?
Based on your element.
I know it's super fun.
Um, anyway, thinking about youknow, fertility and this whole
(16:07):
person experience that it is, isreally such a gift to give
yourself.
If you're on a fertility journeyand you're trying to conceive,
finding support that views thewhole person can make an
incredible difference in yourexperience through that journey.
(16:29):
Because a lot of times, youknow, a Western medical office,
they are busy and they are, youknow, doing all of the things
that they know to do, right?
And sometimes you leave theoffice and you're like, oh gosh,
I have these questions, right?
Coming in to see someone likemyself, like I can sit and spend
more time with you and go overthe different, even just the
(16:52):
medications, or you know,encourage you to talk to your
doctor when that's appropriate,and like having a support where
you can come and kind of debriefthrough the experience, really
good.
Also, a lot of families differwildly in terms of the support
that they bring in outside ofthemselves.
(17:16):
So I know couples who have gonethrough a fertility journey and
not told a soul.
Like I literally was the onlyperson that the wife would talk
to about her journey, aside fromher doctor and her husband.
And that's great.
I mean, sometimes you need thatin case, you know, it takes a
(17:36):
long time and you don't want tohave that, you know, as
well-meaning as people can bechecking in and stuff.
Sometimes you don't necessarilywant to talk about it.
Sometimes there are heartachesand disappointments and things
along the way that you don'twant to have to talk about every
single time.
You just need that kind of thatbarrier to be able to hold your
(18:00):
space and kind of get throughit.
Um, I know other couples whoreally love telling everyone in
their community so that ifthings do not go as planned and
they have hurdles along the way,they have that support system
ready to kind of catch them andsupport them through it.
(18:21):
Honestly, it's I've seen couplesgo through multiple rounds of
IVF and choose a differentsupport structure each time.
And I think also knowing thatthat's very normal is and okay,
like you don't have to choosethe same thing every time.
It's normal to have differentneeds, right?
(18:43):
It's the same with pregnancieswhen you get there.
Sometimes in a pregnancy, whenyou're, for example, postpartum,
sometimes you don't want manyvisitors and you want to just be
in a little cocoon and have yourwhatever it is that you need and
not have the distraction orinput from outside.
Other times, you know, peopleare like day out, day of birth,
(19:06):
right?
Like there's lots of peoplethere, and it's a whole
community adventure.
All of those are great.
It's really again about knowingyourselves and what's going to
work best for you and yourpartner, and and then expressing
that to your community, right?
And even if you change your mindmidway, I've supported patients
(19:29):
who, you know, at first theytold a bunch of people and then
they had uh sharing regret.
And they were like, oh my god,what did I do?
And then they had to go back tothose people, or they didn't
have to, they chose to go backto those people and say, Hey, um
I got kind of freaked out afterI told everyone, and now I'm
(19:50):
feeling a lot of pressure abouthow my body responds to the
medications or whatever it is.
And I'd really love if you justfollow my lead and I'll
communicate to you updates whenI'm ready.
Perfectly reasonable, right?
Like as humans, sometimes we getexcited about things and we're
like, yeah.
And then when the reality ofwhatever it is comes about,
(20:13):
we're like, wait, no, I changedmy mind.
It's okay.
You can change your mind inthis.
Because it is this whole personexperience, and we are humans,
and these journeys are going tobring up things that are
surprising, most likely.
(20:35):
And if the fertility journeydoesn't bring up things that are
surprising, most likely birthand new momness will.
So somewhere in that trajectory,there's a lot of room for
humanness, and there's a lot ofroom for you know, learning to
surrender and learning to have,I don't know, safety in the
(20:59):
chaos, I think is what comes tomind.
Learning to feel like you trustyourself, you trust the process,
you trust your partner, andletting things unfold a bit
without so much need to control.
And I think that's the otherpiece that I was thinking about
with fertility, at least fortoday, um I could have another
(21:23):
topic I could chat about for along time.
Um, but another piece aboutfertility is looking at, you
know, whether like what's theright amount of things that you
want to be doing.
Because what I've seen over theyears in supporting women in a
(21:46):
fertility journey is that somewomen really relax when they
feel more in control.
And that by that I mean likereally more rigid in their
nutrition, rigid in theirsupports, you know, more not
rigid, structured, maybe let'suse structured, because it's
more like having the routine andbeing able to ultimately feel
(22:10):
like we've checked all theboxes, so that when we go in to
you know, trying to conceivelike a retrieval or transfer, or
even trying to conceivenaturally when it's ovulation
time, having done all of thosethings and checked all of those
boxes, that can allow us to feelmore relaxed and open and
(22:34):
fertile, right?
Receptive again, it actuallyopens the heart.
For other women, having thatmuch structure and rigidity is
really stressful, and what thatdoes energetically is it
constricts and it contracts, andit makes them feel a bit more
(22:54):
like they're beating themselvesup because they're not able to
meet that checklist easily.
Is that making sense?
So I always talk to my patientsabout that.
Like, what is it that's gonnafeel most supportive for you?
And understanding that that maychange also, and having those
(23:16):
regular check-ins is sovaluable, and being able to have
support, whether it's you know,you might listen to this podcast
and you might share these thingswith your partner, and that's
enough, that's a good supportfor you, and you can kind of
talk through these differentaspects of it for other people.
You might want to add in aholistic provider, right?
(23:40):
Um, and if so, you can find onein your area, DM me.
I'm happy to help people findpractitioners.
I really love connecting peoplewith other people.
So if I can help you, if you'rein Orange County, California,
and you want to come see me, Iwould love that.
All of the information to get intouch with me is in the show
(24:01):
notes below.
And you can always leave me amessage, comment.
I see everything.
If you have questions about howChinese medicine views fertility
and cycle health, go ahead andmessage me because it gives me
great ideas to chat about onhere as well.
So thank you for listeningtoday, and I look forward to
(24:21):
seeing you next time.
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