Meta Performance: How to Transcend in the Aesthetic Industry - with Dr. Brittany Eidson - The Daria Hamrah Podcast

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (00:01):
Alright everyone, welcome to another episode.
Today's episode is a special onefor me because I'm not just
interviewing a colleague, I'malso sitting down with someone
whose journey I've had theprivilege to witness firsthand.
Dr.
Brittany Aitson is aboard-certified facial cosmetic
surgeon and a board-certifiedoral and maxilofacial surgeon,

(00:22):
as well as a fellow of theAmerican College of Surgeons.
She's also the co-founder ofTrue Form Surgery in Michigan,
where she and her husband arebuilding a thriving,
patient-centered practicefocused on both facial
aesthetics and oral maxilofacialsurgery.
Her path is anything butordinary.
Dr.
Aitson trained at the Universityof Michigan, went on to complete

(00:44):
her residency training in oralmaxillofacial surgery in the
United States Army at WalterReed, and served our country for
13 years, rising to the rank ofmajor.
During her time in the military,she performed complex procedures
ranging from rhinoplasty toorthodonatic and reconstructive
surgery on hundreds of activeduty soldiers.

(01:07):
After her military service, shepursued an advanced fellowship
training in facial cosmeticsurgery through the American
Academy of Cosmetic Surgery,right here in McLean, Virginia,
where I had the opportunity totrain her.
What stood out to me then isexactly what defines her today:
discipline, precision, humility,and an unwavering commitment to

(01:29):
excellence.
Fast forward today, she's notonly built a successful surgical
practice, but she's alsoteaching alongside leaders in
the field, most recently as afaculty at the AACS annual
scientific meeting on one of themost prestigious stages in
cosmetic surgery.
In this conversation, we'regoing to dive into everything

(01:52):
from the truth behind cosmeticsurgery trends to the psychology
of patients and to what itreally takes to build a career
and a practice in this field.
Brittany, so great to have youon.
Thanks for having me.
Of course.
Honestly, I have to be honestwith you, I'm very surprised,
given just the nature of things,how soon you have risen and

(02:18):
surpassed uh expectations, atleast my personal expectations.
Not that I didn't believe inyou.
I believe in all my fellows andanyone the train.
You know yourself.
I I was always cheering for you,motivating you, especially when
it came to uh just taking thingshead on and getting onto social
media, putting yourself outthere, telling people who you

(02:41):
are, what you can do for them.
And you just literally took myadvice the next day and started
just putting in the reps.
And it does take an amount ofdiscipline to do that, but also
self-belief.
Now, before we get into yourjourney, you've been in practice
for how long now?

SPEAKER_02 (03:01):
Uh it's been four years.
Yeah, coming up on four years.

SPEAKER_00 (03:04):
Four years.
So, what is the biggest lie inyour opinion?
Patients are told about cosmeticsurgery or aesthetic medicine
that when patients come to you,you uh have to unpack and
demystify.

SPEAKER_02 (03:22):
Oh man, there's so many lies now that are floating
around.
That's why we're out here on youknow social media and trying to
write everything.
But I think the biggest liewould have to be that this
aesthetic journey is quick.
Everybody, we're in this worldof instant gratification where
everybody wants their Amazonpackage the next day.
And I feel like so many peoplecome to me and say, you know, I

(03:44):
want minimal downtime.
I I can't do that.
And, you know, they they pushand push and push for something
that's quick and easy.
And it's not always the case,you know, but they could go to
the med spa down the street andsomebody else might tell them,
Oh, yeah, I can do that, andyou'll be back to work the next
day.
I just think that, you know,this world of instant
gratification is is actually notacting in our favor here.

(04:06):
So there's really, you know, yougot to break that down and
really let them understand thatthis is a journey that we're on,
and it's not quick to get theseresults that you want and to
still look natural.

SPEAKER_00 (04:15):
So, in your opinion, what are some of the risks that
are associated with these typesof mixed messages that our field
is sending to the patients orthe community out there?

SPEAKER_02 (04:26):
I think it's a loss of authority.
I mean, you you used to go tothe doctor to to find out what
you need, what's wrong.
And now I feel like people arecoming to me.
They've already thrown it intoAI.
They already, you know, seem toknow everything.
They have the list of this iswhat's wrong, this is what I
want, and I need to be back towork in two days.
And it's just, it's about reallyreframing that and bringing the

(04:47):
trust back to us.
And, you know, we went throughall this training and and the
board certification to have theauthority to be able to tell you
what's in your best interest.
And we kind of it it's almostbackwards.
It feels like, you know, we'retaking their diagnosis and
saying, okay, sure, here, here'swhat you want.
And I feel like it's hard tostep away from that and really
reframe that for the patient andkeep the trust.

SPEAKER_00 (05:08):
I think, I think that is a huge problem.
And I think today, more so thanever, because of what you just
said, and that's some somethingthat I've noticed that you have,
that you possess, it's just thisuh talent and ability, which is
to communicate, the ability tocommunicate.
And I love your Instagram postbecause you articulate and

(05:32):
communicate complex things verysimply and very clearly and for
the layman, and I think that isone of the must-haves for any
cosmetic surgeon today, becausea lot of what we do now, more so
than ever, has to do withcommunication.
Because you have to, in order todemystify a lot of these things,

(05:53):
you have to be able to, first ofall, get the patient's ear,
because they, like you said,they're set on a procedure,
they're set on an outcome, andthey're just here to shop for
it.
They're not here to ask usquestions.
And if you don't have theability to communicate, if you
don't have great bedsidemanners, it's going to be very,

(06:15):
very difficult to get uhsomeone's attention.
And when I encourage you to geton social media, I wasn't I
didn't even know how youcommunicate because you know
when you train someone, they'reusually usually I'm talking,
they're listening.
And when I so when when when Isaw you on your post, I don't

(06:36):
know if you remember, Iimmediately gave you feedback.
I said, You're doing a greatjob, just keep doing it.
And some people have it and somepeople don't.
And so I think communication iskey more so than ever.
But if someone walks you in uhwalks in your office asking for
a procedure, you know, it won'tmake them happier.

(06:56):
How do you handle thatconversation?
Like they're convinced that thisis what they need in their life,
and you know that's completelythe wrong thing.

SPEAKER_02 (07:07):
Well, I try education is so important, but I
think I for a little while Itried to just I'm just gonna
educate you and just you know,tell them everything I know.
And and it I felt like it wasn'tgetting through to patients,
they weren't getting it becauseI'm trying to educate them.
Kind of like, you know, ifyou're in a political debate and
somebody's trying to educateyou, you're like, I'm good.

(07:27):
I already have my mind made up,but thanks for your opinion.
And that's how it felt.
There was just kind of a wallthat was up.
So instead, you know, I hearwhat they can, you know, I'm
here for this that I saw ononline or whatever.
And so I like to say, you know,what's your goal?
You know, if if we're sittingback here and we've gone through
this journey, it's six weeks,it's 12 weeks later.
How do you want to feel?
What do you want to look like?

(07:48):
And I hear that.
And then I do a physical exam.
And then I'm able to say, youknow what, to get you to that
place that you just told meabout, this is this is the way
and this is why.
And it really reframes thatbecause they told me what is
going to make them happy.
And now I will tell you what Ican do to get you to that place.
And so that seems to work waybetter than when I was just

(08:10):
trying to preach or educate andsay, no, that's wrong because of
this.
I think it's been reallytransformative in my practice
and how I'm able to communicatewith patients that come in with
this preconceived notion orthis, you know, this is what I
want.
This is all I'm getting.

SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
I think I I love that approach because from
personal experience, oftentimeswhen you approach it this way,
they feel like you're workingtogether with them on their goal
and there are, then they willbecome receptive.
It's kind of leading the horseto the water.

SPEAKER_02 (08:40):
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (08:41):
Now, what's the difference between someone that
wants to look better, like youjust mentioned, but then um
someone else who will never besatisfied?
Have you ever encountered that?
Have you ever did you ever fallinto that trap?

SPEAKER_02 (08:55):
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
And so tell tell us a little about it.

SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
Yeah, I think that you know, we kind of call those
red flags that, you know,somebody comes in and they've
had this, this, and this, andthey're not happy with this
because of this, and they butand they're upset with this
surgeon or this person becauseof this.
The person that you see that'sbeen on this journey that that
is never satisfied.
I am not gonna, I am okay sayingmaybe we can't get there, but

(09:22):
maybe these are some morerealistic goals for you.
But I think that that one is abig one.
And then people that come inthat that really want perfection
that say, you know, I have twomillimeters of asymmetry on this
jaw versus this jaw, and it'sjust they want absolute
perfection.
It's not always something that'sachievable or possible.
So those are the kind of the redflags that we're like, we have

(09:43):
to kind of roll it back and andreset expectations to really
make sure they understand what Ican do and what I can't do.
And I'm okay sometimes saying, Ican't do that for you, I can't
achieve that.
Um, and I think that's betterfor them in the long run than
just trying to say, oh sure,we'll do this and this, that'll
that'll make you perfect.
Doesn't always work that way.

SPEAKER_00 (10:02):
Did you have you ever encountered a patient or
can you think of a story wherethat diagnosis unfortunately
didn't occur before you did theprocedure and then afterwards it
unveal or revealed itself?
And then how did you manage thatand what what what happened?

SPEAKER_02 (10:25):
Yeah, I I had a case where uh I did a surgery and
there was you know a minorcomplication of something on the
scar that that didn't lookgreat, and we were managing it,
doing some injections of somePRF and things like that, and
and it was looking great.
I mean, I had the all the youknow, every two weeks we had
photos, things were looking sogreat, but this person was just

(10:47):
deeply unsatisfied.
She could not see past this onearea that you couldn't even see
on a photo anymore.
But she said, Oh, my familytells me that it looks horrible
and this, and you know, shecould not get past that.
And for me, you know, I had tocome to a point where I had to
say, I wish I would have saidthis in the first place, but I
had to say, I really can't doanything else.

(11:10):
This I showed every photo and itjust didn't hit with her.
And that was really hard to helpher through, you know, and
ultimately we just kind of, youknow, did some maintenance
treatments and she was neverhappy.
And that that hurts as a surgeonto know that you did your best
and and objectively, it reallylooked great, but she was never

(11:31):
gonna get past it.
I don't think I could have evermade her happy, and I really
wish somehow that would havecome up a little bit earlier,
you know, before undergoing thisjourney together.
But, you know, you do whateverything you possibly can to
the best of your ability to dothe best for the patient, and
sometimes there are otherfactors that you can't get past
that.

SPEAKER_00 (11:49):
How how do you how do you handle that emotionally?
Because I could tell you frompersonal experience, I remember
every one of those patients ofthe past 20 years.
I remember them by name, bycase, by face, everything.
And you're talking that aboutthem not being able to see past
that.

(12:10):
Emotionally, I myself as asurgeon, when that happens, I
can't see past that myself,thinking that yeah, I probably
should have never operated onthat person because I I don't
think I helped her or him.
And emotionally it reallyaffects me, and I always think
about it, and I personally Ican't see past those cases.

(12:34):
And I always wonder what mycolleagues do, how my colleagues
emotionally deal with thesethings.
Now, so you're still early inyour career, but you don't need
to be in practicing for 20 yearsto have an experience that just
like you mentioned.
How do you how do you deal withit emotionally?
Do you do you dwell on ityourself or do you just turn it

(12:56):
off and move on and don't lookback in the rearview mirror?
How do you handle it?
Because that's just a personalthing.

SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
Right.
I mean, I would love to say thatI turn it off and just keep
moving, but there's no way.
I mean, you think like you said,you think about it every time.
Every time I do that sameprocedure, I'm thinking, I'm
never gonna let that happenagain.
And I think, you know,unfortunately it happens, but
that's the journey of being agood surgeon is owning
complications, mistakes, andrealizing that you can make

(13:26):
these things better.
But in the end, it's aboutprevention every single time.
No, I mean, we just can't beperfect.
So I just I try to reframe it asa learning experience, but
you're right, it still weighs onyou every single time you do
that procedure again.
That's in the back of your mind.
I can't let that happen, youknow.
Don't let that happen again.

SPEAKER_00 (13:44):
I know it's it's tough.
You know, one of the things thatI do now, I make a more of a
conscious effort to point outthese possibilities before I
operate on patients.
So at least these conversationshave taken place.
And that's also a good thing formy own sanity.
Oh, that hey, because we allhave a conscience.
I know some patients think we'rejust out there to get their

(14:06):
money or we just look at them asobjects.
But sometimes I wish they knewhow uh empathetic we are towards
their feelings, towards their,you know, emotions.
And but again, there are a thereis a percentage, you know,
statistically, about twelve toseventeen percent of anyone

(14:28):
walking in our offices has uhsome degree of body dysmorphia.
There are different there's a sit's a spectrum, right?
So it's sometimes very difficultto identify those patients in
the beginning.
Some can really mask it, theycan hide it.
So one of the things I justactually implemented just this

(14:50):
year, I've created aquestionnaire.
It's a two-page questionnairewhere they just check boxes so
they can go through it prettyquickly.
I'll be happy to share it withyou.
That when they come in forconsultation and when they
decide they want to do aprocedure, I have them fill that
out.

(15:11):
And that screens, that screensfor the the various spectrums of
body dysmorphia.
At least, you know, if I amconcerned, I can have a
conversation with them before Itake them to the operating room,
and I have the opportunity tosay then maybe I do not want to
operate on that patient, or makethe patient aware that they have

(15:34):
a problem because maybe they'renot aware.
Most of them are not aware, andthen offer them help because
there are there is professionalhelp, there are psychologists
that can help with bodydysmorphia or image, body image
problems, which is I think moresignificant now with social
media.

SPEAKER_02 (15:53):
Well, I was really surprised.
I mean, you know, in trainingand as you go through, you
always learn, oh, just justavoid, you know, that like the
plague don't ever operate onthose people.
And I've actually been surprisedwhere you, like you said, those
conversations ahead of time haveactually really helped reset
expectations and and help them.
And I've had two patients that Ican think of very discreetly

(16:13):
that I think I noticed thatahead of time.
We had a good conversation, andI was shocked afterwards that
their confidence level just wentthrough the roof.
And I didn't expect it.
I thought, oh no, here's anotherone where I'm gonna be, you
know, walking them through dayby day this emotional train
wreck for them.
But then they came out on theother side and were absolutely

(16:36):
thrilled in their confidencelevel.
I had family members of theirsemailing me and calling me
saying, I can't believe, youknow, they they their mood has
totally changed.
So not that we're out heretrying to cure that, but I
think, like you said,identifying and addressing it,
don't be afraid of it and justsay, no, I can't operate on you.
Address it and you might besurprised.

SPEAKER_00 (16:54):
Yeah, I think that is the hard part to say no.
I think the for me, the longer Iwent into my career, I acquired
the ability to say no moreoften.
Yeah.
Because you don't want to offendsomeone.
You don't want I actually as amatter of fact, once I said that
to a patient and I refused to dothe surgery, and she
immediately, I think even fromher car, as soon as she left my

(17:17):
office, left me the mosthorrendous review, like
completely flipped the script.

SPEAKER_01 (17:25):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (17:26):
Described it as if I was pushing to do surgery and
telling her all the things thatshe doesn't need and completely
turning things around out ofanger that she didn't get what
she wanted.
And there's nothing I could doabout it.
I contacted Google, they're likefirst of all, it was impossible
to get someone that contactanyone there.

(17:48):
So it's just sitting there.
I figured, and that was veryearly in my career, and I was
very distraught.
I was so upset because I Ithought I helped the patient by
saying no.
And here it is, uh, she is uhjust lashing back.
And so, but ultimately the oneadvice I could give you having
been in this for now twodecades, is that you have to

(18:12):
just you can't look in therearview mirror, you have to
look past that as long as you'rein peace knowing that you did
the right thing, uh otherwise itwill chew you up.
And that's why a lot of ourcolleagues they stop actually
performing cosmetic surgery,they just go back to the
reconstructors and like, youknow what, I can't deal with
this.
It's too much, it's uh mentallyit's too big of a strain.

(18:35):
So, in your opinion, now stayingon the subject, what's the
difference between someone thatnow is not happy with the
results, not because of bodyimage or body dysmorphia
problems, but they're justnitpicking on something because

(18:56):
someone they trust, like theirsister, their mother, or their
best friend or their brother,made a comment that is kind of
malicious, maybe out ofjealousy, out of ignorance, and
because that person has a lot ofinfluence on that patient, now
that patient comes back andsays, I don't like my results.

(19:19):
And until uh you dig further andyou realize someone else put
that idea in their head andinitially they loved it.
Now a year later they come backand say they hate it because of
people around them.
Do you ever address that?
Have you ever, by the way,experienced that?
And then how did you addressthat?

SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
Yeah, I had one very specific one that it was, I
mean, she raved for a wholeyear, sent multiple, I think
probably six patients that yearto me.
I mean, over the moon.
And then all of a sudden, Ithink it was 15 months, flipped
a switch and just called.
And my office said, I don't knowwhat's going on.
She's like, this is, you know,your biggest fan.

(19:58):
And all of a sudden she'scalling saying she's so unhappy
with her results.
And it's like, where did thisall come from?
So of course I'm gonna bring herin.
We're gonna talk about it, but Iyou have to really understand,
because some patients, there'ssomething that doesn't look
great.
And I would say, if somethingdoesn't look great and I could
fix it if it's a minor revision,I'm gonna say that.

(20:18):
I'm not just gonna say, nope, mywork is perfect.
We can't do anything.
I absolutely address thatbecause that in the end, that's
my work walking around and Iwant people to be happy.
But sometimes you get thatperson in, and it turns out her
husband had said something andpointed something and then
showed her in a picture of thisthing that, like, oh wow, I
can't believe that looks likethat.
You had all that work done andit looks like that.

(20:41):
And that's somebody close toher.
And and so I saw her that firsttime, and then the second time
she came in again to talk aboutthe treatment plan that I
recommended.
And her husband was there andand we talked about it together.
But that's when it came out thatthis is the person that's
driving this.
And for me, that's a sensitivesituation.
But we kind of went back to thebeginning and talked about, you

(21:02):
know, these are the things thatyou're saying now are bothering
you a year and a half, almost ayear and a half later.
And do you remember when Irecommended that other procedure
that would have, you know,helped this and given you those
really long-term results?
And she said, Yeah, I just, youknow, I didn't want to do it.
And, you know, it was too muchmoney or whatever it was.
So she told me, you know, wewent back, I went back in the

(21:24):
notes and realized I recommendedsomething else that she
declined.
And that was something that alsojust flipped the script in my
mind where, you know, thisshouldn't be an a la carte menu.
You know, if I'm gonna give youmy best, it's gotta be my best.
It's not to upsell you, it's notto add more things to your
treatment plan.
But if I recommend all of thesethings, it's because these are

(21:45):
the things you need, and this ishow I accomplish it.
Just like I talked about before.
If I want to get you to thatjourney that we talked about,
your six months later happiness,how do we do that?
And so that was the thing thatclicked in my mind after that
scenario of it felt horrible forme.
But I thought, you know.
What?
I should have just been a littlebit more assertive and helped

(22:05):
her understand these are thethings we need to do to get you
there and not compromise mysurgery because the patient was
driving it based on you knowfinances or fear or whatever it
may be.

SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Interesting.
That brings me to the nextquestion, you know, because a
lot of what people think, atleast when I was in training, I
thought cosmetic surgery is allabout learning technical things.
I couldn't wait to get to theoperating room.
But a lot of these, what whatwhat we're talking about right
now, you actually what Ipersonally learned it is being

(22:36):
in a consultation with mymentors in the room as they're
talking to the patient, justbeing a fly in the wall and
seeing all these things unfold,the good, the bad, and the ugly.
So it is deeply psychological,right?
You know what we do.
I think a lot of what we do isuh psychological.
So what what have patients, youknow, since we're talking about

(23:00):
this stuff, taught you aboutself-esteem, identity, and
self-confidence that surprisedyou, or is nothing really
surprised you kind of were havehad become aware of that prior
to your training or yourexperience?

SPEAKER_02 (23:18):
Yeah, so I think uh beauty, self-confidence,
aesthetics, all that is sodeeply personal.
And when you're in training,thinking back to board exams and
studying, it's you know, youlook at this, this, this, this
is the normal, this is theangle, the measurement, all of
these things are the you know,ideal perception of beauty or
perfection or symmetry.

(23:39):
And sometimes it's not aboutthat.
And that's not, you know, I'm Iwould say this is where I want
to put your nose in relation toyour upper lip and your chin,
and that's the sign of thenormal range.
And that may be way off from thepatient or what gives them
confidence, you know.
If I think something looks notso great, but they, you know,

(24:01):
really like having volume intheir cheeks right here, it's
just so deeply personal whateach person feels is beautiful
and what is going to make themconfident.
And so I think that getting tothe root of that and and
realizing that there is a personand human interaction that needs
to happen, not justscientifically diagnosing

(24:22):
something on a photo.

SPEAKER_00 (24:24):
Yeah, I mean, it's also a lot of that has to do, I
think, with what's going on intheir life.
I try to always find out to getmore context as to their
self-confidence or self-esteemproblem.
You know, trying to find outwhat stage of their lives are.
Is it is it is it like ateenager that's about to go to

(24:45):
college and has a big hump ontheir nose that was that had
maybe a sibling that constantlymade fun of them all their lives
and they're so self-confident,you know aware about that, and
and they they lack thisself-esteem and self-confidence,
or is it someone that'smiddle-aged, maybe just recently

(25:06):
got divorced, and now wants toand all their lives they take
took care of the children andnever took care of themselves,
and now they realize they haveto take care of themselves.
So it's I think once weunderstand the story behind the
patient, because every patienthas a story, no one just wakes

(25:27):
up and starts nitpicking theirfaces, right?
I mean, that doesn't happen.
And then I try to invest moretime in identifying these
nuances and the story behind thepatient.
And I think when you approachthe patient within that context,
I think we're better able tohelp them and understand their

(25:50):
concerns, and then we thereforethen will address them
differently, whether we reframethings or uh stage things or
even talk them out of something,or maybe present them something
that they hadn't thought ofthat, like you initially said at
the beginning, that might solvetheir problem.

(26:10):
I think for understanding thestory behind the patient is so
key, and that's something Ilearned I would say it took me
10 years at least to understand.
I gotta ask questions aboutthat.
I never asked patients aquestion about that.
At first I thought I might beoverstepping boundaries or it's

(26:30):
like it's personal, but everylittle detail matters because if
you don't address it prior to orduring the consultation, it will
come up at some point whenthey're most vulnerable, which
is post-operatively.
Who's your support group, who'sgoing to be taking care of you,

(26:50):
who comes with you to theconsultation.
And all of those things I feelare integral parts and it it
it's it's it's it makes it evenmore complicated, especially for
the uh no-fi surgeons gettinginto practice.
But uh one of the things thatstrikes me with you is you don't

(27:11):
appear to me as someone that isyou you appear to me as an old
soul, almost like you've been inthis profession for so long.
Like you have to explain to mewhy.

SPEAKER_02 (27:28):
I don't understand that way.

SPEAKER_00 (27:30):
Yeah, I I don't understand it.
It because of course I compareyou to the norm, and I want to
know did you have an epiphany,did you do independent research,
do you just have that naturallyGod given social emotional
intelligence and self-awareness?
What is it?
I mean, I I you need to tell usa little bit about yourself and

(27:53):
and and I want you to be honest.
Yeah, I I'm don't don't don'tdon't be humble.
I I really because I want thiswill bring a lot of value to
surgeons that are currentlydoing their fellowship or
pursuing a fellowship, or onesthat have recently graduated, as

(28:15):
well as surgeons that have beenin practice for a decade and are
still struggling.

SPEAKER_02 (28:19):
Yeah.
Well, I have to be humblebecause I think that's what has
got me to have that that affector that way about me.
I am a very, I guess,introspective person.
I really study emotional changeson people's face and I listen to
what they have to say instead ofinterrupting because being
humble, especially when we dothe cosmetic fellowships, I had

(28:44):
already been through residencyyears in the military as being
my own surgeon.
I was a staff surgeon, I wasteaching other people, and now
I'm back in this place where Ihave to say, I don't know
anything, I'm learning.
And I was okay stepping back andsaying, even if I think I do,
I'm not gonna what does that getme?

(29:04):
I'm here for a year to soak ineverything I possibly can and I
can form my opinions later, butI do that in my practice now.
I take advice from other people,I listen to my patients.
If I could say anything tosomebody that's trying to
really, you know, understandwhat's going on and have a
better relationship with theirpatients and be that authority,

(29:26):
it's it's be humble.
Even, you know, from training toseeing my patients, I let my
patients talk.
I barely say anything until thevery end of the consultation
when I'm giving myrecommendations.
There is so much beauty inallowing the silence and letting
that person talk to you in itsentirety and not interrupting

(29:47):
and saying, oh yeah, yeah, yeah,I understand that.
This is what I do.
I just sit back and let ithappen.
And I have always been thatperson, whether it looked shy or
it looked like I was just, youknow, being a jerk and, you
know, don't want to talk toanybody.
No, it's sitting back andlistening and watching the
emotion on the face and watchingwhat people are telling you.

(30:07):
And I was, you know, humbleenough to do that in res or in
fellowship.
And I know a lot of people havestruggle with just learning and
not thinking you knoweverything.
And I've taken that through toconsultations with my patients
and even with my team, buildinga team in my practice.
I mean, you have to let otherpeople talk and appreciate the
beauty and the silences becausethey will talk and they'll

(30:28):
reveal those things like you'retalking about where they are in
their life.
Other things come up without youhaving to ask.
And sometimes if you ask or youinterject, you miss it.
They're done.
They they've moved on, they'renever gonna tell you those
things.

SPEAKER_00 (30:40):
So I don't know if that's that is that is what you
asked, but absolutely.
I'm not surprised by answer.
So I think it to me it's notjust humility, but it's also
empathy.
I think the the the one of theother second key word here is
empathy in addition to humility.
If you don't possess empathy,like you said, you're not gonna

(31:04):
listen.
Because if you have empathy,there's a genuine interest in
helping the patient.
And when you're generally uhgenuinely interested helping
someone, that's when you listen.
And on the flip side, theopposite is if you want to sell,

(31:25):
you never listen, you constantlytalk.
That's why salespeople are soobnoxious and annoying.
Because you feel like they'renot uh here for you, they're
here for them.
And I think that trust, thatempathy and that humility makes
patients comfortable enough totalk to you about their most

(31:50):
vulnerable uh uh uh aspect oftheir lives, the m things they
fear, things they wish they had,or things they want.
And I think empathy is uh thebiggest, the most important
trait of anyone in healthcare,not just cosmetic surgery, that

(32:12):
you need to possess to be ableto help patients at a complete
different level that some peoplemight not even understand, and
only the ones that do it willunderstand, and only the
patients that feel it will willbe able to tell you who those
ones are.
And I I loved your answer.
And my curiosity is did you uhyou were mentioning you were

(32:34):
staff surgeon in the at the USArmy, which is a very different
environment than privatepractice.
Any lessons uh from the militarythat still guide you not just
with with patients, but also inthe operating room?

SPEAKER_02 (32:48):
Yeah, I mean the military is all about it's it's
all about discipline, it's allabout being on a team.
So that's really helped me quitea bit, both in the operating
room and building my team thathelps me.
I mean, I can't do all of thisall by myself.
There's so much that my teamgoes into, but that that
discipline in the army and kindof the whole goal of the army is
to create these high performers.

(33:09):
And so I learned very early inmy training and afterwards that
being a high performer in thearmy is how you get ahead.
That's how you excel.
And it was only after spendingthat time in the army as a high
performer when I got out, Istarted kind of studying these
things and discovered thistheory of meta-performance,
which is which is above highperformance.

(33:30):
It's not what more can I do?
It's not about working harder,it's about what else is possible
and just kind of rising aboveand watching everything that's
going on beneath you and notworking harder and just putting
your head down and saying, I cando it all, I can do it all
myself.
It's what more can we achieve?
And that brought in teamwork aswell.

(33:52):
And so understanding how tomanage a team, how to be on a
team, and how to lead a team wassuper important.
And so all of those things, Ikind of got my baseline
experiences at high performer inthe army, and it allowed me to
open up to new things and thisidea of meta-performance and
really just stepping back andlooking at what more is
possible.

(34:12):
And that's really, I think itkind of set the baseline for me
to excel now that I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 (34:17):
Can you explain that a little more?
The high performers and metaperformers that the you know, in
maybe real life examples thatyou had, because I wasn't
familiar with those things andI'm very interested.
It's it's very interesting whatyou just said.
I think you can apply to any, Iknow, I think you can apply to
anything.

(34:38):
If you can kind of maybe for forthe layman, just uh with an
example explain that.

SPEAKER_02 (34:45):
Yeah.
So I I guess I can reallydistinctly think in residency,
we we would have clinic in theafternoons.
Everybody hated clinic becauseit meant you were once you
finish clinic, you see, youknow, 20 patients and then you
have three hours of notes to do,and you leave at eight o'clock
at night.
And I remember I knew we couldget faster through the clinic if
I just did all of them.
So I remember going through thehall and grabbing all the

(35:06):
papers, seeing all the patients,presenting all of it to the
staff and just getting through.
And it's like, I can do it fast,I'm just gonna do it myself.
It'll get done faster.
And that's being a highperformer.
You can do it and you're a taskmanager, you can do these things
really well and really fast.
And it's the mindset of I can doit faster, I can do it better.
So, what's the point in tryingto teach other people or

(35:26):
delegate things to other people?
And so instead of the mindset ofI'm the only one that can do it,
how about I'm the best one totrain and think about what else
is possible if I took, you know,three hours tonight and sat down
with my team of residents andsaid, these are the steps that
we're gonna take and we're gonnamove forward, you know, together
as a team, and that's how it'sall gonna work together.

(35:48):
It's more about a mindset ofelevating yourself and thinking
what is possible and and what'sthe mindset that gets us there
to get us running together as ateam rather than I'm the best, I
know everything, I'm a highperformer, I'm gonna get it all
done all by myself and workharder and work harder and work
harder.
There's a max to that that youcan't psychologically surpass.

(36:08):
You can't be a high performerall the time.
It's just it gets exhausting.
So this meta performance freesyou up.
It's just a mindset shift thatreally frees you up to be, you
know, that person that looks athow we can get this done, what
else can we get done withoutputting more work and more sweat
equity in.

SPEAKER_00 (36:28):
And how are you applying it to your private
practice?
I know you we just talked uh acouple of weeks ago, and I was
surprised to hear that.
And you just uh less than fouryears ago, you went into private
practice.
I know your husband already hadstarted that practice, and
already you're building yoursecond location after less than

(36:49):
four years.
Can you explain what you feelwhat what was the the one X
factor that led to that type ofsuccess and within the context
of what we just talked about?

SPEAKER_02 (37:06):
Well, we actually hired a business coach, and it's
it's having somebody else thatcan call you on your bullshit
sometimes and just say, youknow, you're doing that thing
where you feel like you have tocontrol everything in this
practice.
And as soon as I was able tohave somebody call me out on
that and really let go andrealize I have to build a strong

(37:28):
team around me that we wedelegate up front, we have
meetings, we have, you know,pods of leadership within the
office and allowing or just thatrelease of allowing others to
help and to really build them uphas been beneficial as well.
So we have this coach that'sbeen then coaching me, and it's

(37:49):
just that release of somebodycalling you out and saying, Why
are you doing that?
What what more could you do ifif we shifted our mindset to,
you know, building a team?
So now my team actually getscoaching too.
And so it's about developingevery layer of this practice,
not just me.
You come out of trainingthinking, I gotta be the best.
What can I do?
All of these things of what canI do?

(38:11):
And it's like, you can't do ittogether like all by yourself.
You need somebody else, you needa team that's moving and rowing
in the same direction.
And so that was really it openedup my eyes quite a bit to to
business coaching, whereas thatmindset I had before was always,
I gotta learn surgery, you know,how many CEs can I go to?
Things like that.
And this was more, you know, afor me about me as a leader, and

(38:34):
you you kind of need that tobuild a successful practice.

SPEAKER_00 (38:37):
Interesting.
What so what do you think thebiggest factor or challenging
factor or uh different thebiggest difference in building
your practice successfully waswas it that business coach that
helped you get to the next levelor was it something else that
came prior to that?

SPEAKER_02 (38:58):
I think I mean the business coach, I mean that was
a turning point for me for surebecause I was starting to get,
you know, this feeling ofburnout after two years of Adam
and I, my husband trying tobuild this practice, just the
two of us, you know, talkingabout it all the time.
We felt like we were banging ourheads against the wall because
nobody else cared about it asmuch as we did.
But we found ways to open up andactually express these feelings

(39:22):
to our team and you know, notfeel like we couldn't share
things with them.
And it it really got a littlebit more buy-in.
I mean, they they became engagedand this felt like their
practice too.
So when we win, they win.
And that's when the scriptreally flipped.
It's not all about us, and it'snot, I'm the boss and I am in
charge of everything, and I'mthe only one responsible for

(39:43):
this business moving on.
And so we created opportunitiesfor our team to win at the same
time that we went, and that wasthe time that everything
switched, and everybody seemedto be working together.
So when I we had that meeting, acouple meetings in with our
business coach, and we talkedabout burnout, and he said,
Okay, well, what's burnout?
And I thought, I don't know.

(40:04):
I couldn't, I couldn't describeit.
So maybe, maybe it's justsomething in your head.
Everybody has their own idea ofburnout, but burnout isn't just
this one big concept that, oh, Ican diagnose you, you have
burnout.
It's it's something within you,and and the the way out is
different for every singleperson.
And so for me, really holding onto the business aspect of things

(40:26):
has helped quite a bit.
And I've become reallypassionate about it.
But I would say that it's alsohelped my practice with my
patients and how I care for mypatients because now I have this
team that is really hands-on inthe pre-op appointment.
We have people that identifywith each and every patient, and
they're like, that's theirperson that this patient calls
throughout their journey.
And then in the post-op, peopleare coming in and saying, Oh,

(40:47):
you look fabulous.
And the amount of confidencethat that gives these patients
post-op when they're in theirpost-op blues.
I mean, not only has this helpedme as a business owner, but this
has helped my patients in mypractice too, because it
everybody wants this patient tofeel how I've wanted them to
feel the whole time.

SPEAKER_00 (41:04):
That is probably, gosh, I wish I had talked to you
in my first five or ten years ofmy career, because if I just
knew what you just learned withthe business coach and
everything you just said, gosh,I would probably live another 10
years, 10 years longer than Iwill.

(41:26):
Uh, because everything you justsaid, I I learned painfully
through trial and error andbanging my head against the
wall.
And I think for any youngsurgeon listening, or any
seasoned surgeon that is inpractice, has been in practice
for a decade and stillstruggling, I would rewind what

(41:50):
we just talked about, whatBritney just said the past, I
don't know, five minutes, justrewind it and listen to it again
and again and again and againuntil you decide to do it.
Because I could tell you whatyou just said is probably the
secret sauce to businesssuccess.

(42:10):
Because none of us learned thesethings in residency, fellowship.
We didn't learn these thingsunless you you you learned it
from your mentors or they hadthis conversation with you,
which this is something I thatconversation I have with my
fellows a lot, explaining themexactly what I learned
painfully.
I wish I had a business coachthen.
Now, how did you stumble on abusiness coach?

(42:32):
You woke up up some morning andsaid, I think I need a business
coach because I'm burnt out.

SPEAKER_02 (42:39):
Yeah, I had I have a good friend who has a practice
actually.
We share that our buildingtogether.
And so she had been using thiscoach and more as training her
leadership team and doing a lotof sales training and things
like that.
And so I we just Adam and I justwent and had dinner with him,
and you know, he did his salespitch, and that's what he he's
doing.
He's selling himself.
And we thought it's ex it'sexpensive, you know, but

(43:03):
expensive is relative.

SPEAKER_00 (43:04):
I mean, when you get the value, the value you just
got, um, I think it puts it,puts the cost into perspective.

SPEAKER_02 (43:11):
And I think that's what gives people pause, is
like, gosh, I don't know if Ican spend thousands of dollars
working on myself when I I needto be in the in the clinic
seeing patients.
And you that's one of thosemindset things.
And so, you know, we we haddinner with him and we we
thought, you know what?
We're not doing anything elsethat feels good right now.
Let's try it.
And it was so, so worth it.

(43:32):
And I mean, he's the one thatintroduced me to these uh two
books that I, you know, readabout business that really just
got me obsessed with this typeof mindset shift and really
helped me get out of that self,you know, wallowing of like, I'm
burnt out, healthcare providersare burn out.
There's nothing I can do to getout of this.
I just have to put my head downand grind.

(43:53):
That mindset shift has been sojust freeing for me.
But you didn't get thosetextbooks in residency and
fellowship and Like nobody talksabout, you know, reading a book
about teamwork or about, youknow, beyond high performance.
It just doesn't come up in inthose types of academic
readings.
So yeah, I'm still reading mytextbooks and I still watch
videos and, you know, anddeveloping surgical skill, but

(44:14):
I'm also developing this otherside that has that has really
freed my stress by changing mymindset to be more open and
learn more.

SPEAKER_00 (44:22):
Any any book suggestions you have that you
might put into the show notes oruh into the captions?

SPEAKER_02 (44:30):
Well, these two that really got me obsessed with this
type of thing is Beyond HighPerformance and then Five
Dysfunctions of a Team.
I mean, they are transformative.

SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Love it.
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing that.
Now, any podcasts you listen toon these types of topics or are
most podcasts you listen tocompletely different topics?

SPEAKER_02 (44:48):
Yeah, well, I I love the business stuff.
So I Alex Armozzi is one of myfavorites.
I just love listening to thatguy talk.
It's just amazing.
Yes.
And then I listen to somepersonal finance things too,
just to get you in that mindsetof being responsible, you know,
throughout all aspects.

SPEAKER_00 (45:04):
Wow, you you seem to be an entrepreneur through and
through.
Who would have known someonecoming to the city?

SPEAKER_02 (45:08):
I don't know where it came out, but I just became
obsessed with it.

SPEAKER_00 (45:11):
Yeah, I think I think that's just a natural
passion and drive.
You know, I had that and when Icame out, and a lot of the
things that you're saying, it'sresonates so well with me
because that's not somethingthat I had learned, but I had to
educate myself on.
And personally, I understandwhere you come from.
I I want to just make sure theaudience can hear that, and

(45:33):
because this is really the Xfactor.
The the difference betweensuccess and failure is not
necessarily, of course, you haveto be a great surgeon, right?
But if you're an average surgeonand you run your business well,
you're gonna be successful andyou're not gonna burn out.
But you know, it and and theother thing is what you just
mentioned, you know, gettingcoaching is essential.

(45:56):
And most people look at it likeyou said, oh, I don't know if I
can justify the expense, it'syou know very costly.
Well, you know, you gotta spendmoney to make money.
And when you built yourpractice, you didn't pay the
entire money, uh entire cost outof your pocket.
You got a loan.
Uh you borrowed the money fromthe bank so you can pay it off.

(46:17):
I mean, it's the same thing.
You just just put it on that tabif you know you want to be
successful.
I think most people try to do itwith the least amount of
investment, not realizing thatthe best investment is what you
just did, which is you investedin yourself because no one can

(46:38):
take that ability ever away fromyou, right?
Because you could use thatability and scale things.
You can build, build, andconstantly apply to your next
venture, to your next project,whatever you're gonna you're
doing.
And and I think that's the partthat people should have more
faith in and look at it fromthat perspective so they

(47:00):
actually are able to moveforward.

SPEAKER_02 (47:03):
Yeah, and I think something important too.
I mean, we've we kind of gotonto this business and
entrepreneurship track, but tomake it work, you still do need
to still work on mastering youryour craft.
You need to have the educationand you need to develop those
skills.
You don't have to be, and youshould never think you're the
best surgeon ever, but you stillneed to work on it.
You still need to have goodresults.

(47:24):
If I was doing all this and, youknow, you know, doing surgeries
all the time and they were crapand people were unhappy, the
business business would be deadin the water.
So you still need to work onyour skill and your craft, but
developing those skills early,using your training, your
fellowship, and the next coupleof years out of fellowship,
that's the time that you reallydevelop that and then say, you

(47:44):
know, now I'm ready.
I can do this because you stillhave to produce quality and be a
good person.

SPEAKER_00 (47:51):
Love that.
What is the most challengingsurgery in your mind in cosmetic
surgery within the spectrum ofpractice that you perform?

SPEAKER_02 (48:02):
I think rhinoplasty for sure.
I mean, it's a teeny tiny littlearea right in the middle of your
face.
It's where everybody's looking.
And the wild thing aboutrhinoplasty is, you know, it's
millimeters.
We're we're working inmillimeters.
And so you change twomillimeters on one patient is
gonna look different than thesame maneuver on a different
patient.
Every single nose is different.

(48:23):
You have your steps that you gothrough, but this maneuver here
is gonna look wildly differenton this patient, and it's gonna
have functional and cosmeticramifications and implications
for every move you make.
And I don't know that people,you know, understand that with
rhinoplasty, one suture canchange the whole nose.
And so that's I think thehardest surgery.

SPEAKER_00 (48:43):
So can I ask you an honest question?

SPEAKER_02 (48:46):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (48:47):
Why is it then, if if you think that's the most
difficult surgery, why did youthink about it?
Why did you take it uponyourself in just doing
rhinoplasty and taking on thechallenge?
You seem to me like someone thatlikes to torture herself, not
just with business, but alsowith the some one of the most

(49:09):
challenging and technicallychallenging surgeries, not just
technically, also I thinkpatients are sometimes difficult
to manage emotionally because itis a huge change, you know, so
changing the very thing thatsticks not only sticks out of
your face, but is in the middle,in the center of your face, that
has a huge effect on your facialappearance.

(49:29):
What made you obtain thecourage, because it requires
courage to tackle that?
And to the point that you wereliterally sitting next to me on
the rhinoplastic cadaver courseat the ASCS, not just as a
participant, but as a faculty.
Which is pretty darn impressive.

(49:50):
It's pretty badass, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
I I mean, I don't know.
Like you said, I just we tortureourselves.
I'm not sure why we do it.
But it's it is satisfying toknow, you know, again, you still
have to be humble and just notthink that you can fix every
problem, but the problem solvingthat goes into it, and I think
patients deserve people that arepassionate about figuring out

(50:14):
what all of these little thingsand these little nuances of
surgery like this, I think ourunderstanding of the
implications and what can bedone.
Patients deserve that becausethere's so many providers that
take shortcuts or or do thingsthat don't serve the patient in
their best interest, whetherit's out of ignorance or just,

(50:35):
you know, a lack of skill.
But I think I think we owe it tothe patients to offer things,
but only when we have all of theknowledge that we can to give
them the best result.

SPEAKER_00 (50:48):
Yeah, but you still haven't answered the question.
You you you you you'vegeneralized it a little bit too
much.
I I want to know what went onactually in your head one day
deciding, you know what, I'm ina private practice.
So here's my rhinoplastypatient.
I think I can do it.
And then that moment, and thenfast forward four years later,

(51:10):
you're teaching others how to dorhinoplasty.
Like you, you need to I I wantyou to walk me through it.
I I want to know that genuine,I'm genuinely curious because
it's something that I alwayswhen I train fellows, because
I'm so passionate about it,because of everything you just
said, and I like to have thatspark light this huge passion in

(51:35):
my fellows so that they can kindof take the torch and be the
next one to do it and like youteach at the next cadaver course
that I didn't expect wouldhappen so early.
I want you to walk us throughthat.

SPEAKER_02 (51:51):
Well, I mean, there's a little bit of when you
first start out, like, can I dothis?
Should I be doing this?
It's it seems too soon.
But I got my knowledge throughfellowship, and there's no way
that I could say that I learnedall these things on my own in
secret, watching videos andthings like that.
So going through doing this,I've always put in the work with

(52:13):
the thought of how can I returnthis favor to other people?
And maybe I don't know, this iswhy if I'm still not answering
your question, but I reallythink that when we go through
this journey, we do also owe itto other surgeons to be able to
help in their development andtheir training, and especially
in our the AACS and the AmericanBoard of Facial Cosmetic

(52:36):
Surgery, there is a level ofservice that I want to provide
to them.
And maybe that comes from, youknow, my service in the Army and
that just feeling and drive allthe time to be able to provide
that service to other people.
But, you know, if nobody everwants to share or train or give
back, we stop as a specialty.
We stop moving forward and westop being, you know, the

(52:59):
premier surgeons in this type offield.
So I think always, you know,people say, that's not worth my
money, it's not worth my time tospend time training other people
or doing that.
I think, I think that's a hugedisservice to our whole
specialty.
So I think that was kind of thelight bulb for me is wow, I
learned so much in training.
Let me keep working and then getto the point where I can say, I

(53:19):
feel like I can teach somebodyand I can actually develop
somebody else because I'm gonnabe gone someday.
And I want people to continue onin this specialty and being the
premier specialty for this.

SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
Yeah, I I love that.
And I feel the same way, and uh,it's not something you can
really explain because uh it itdoesn't make sense other than
what you just said.
It's basically returning afavor.
Um I feel obligated and I don'teven have to force myself, and
what you just said, I totallyunderstand, and that's the

(53:53):
generosity that comes withappreciation to get someone else
excited about something you'reexcited about.
It's literally sharing a passionand hoping that you can instill
that in someone else, and Ithink that's what gets us going.
And what you just said isabsolutely true, and that's why

(54:14):
uh education continues.
What do you think uh was thesingle most important reason or
one of the reasons that made youthe confident I know you're
gonna say now you you you're waytoo humble.
You're gonna say no, I'm notthat made you the confident
surgeon you are because you notonly because I see what you do,

(54:36):
results speak for themselves, noone has to explain.
What most don't understand thatas surgeons, we can look at
someone's results and c knowexactly what their technical
ability is, what they did welland what they missed, what they
could have done better, youknow, if you scrutinize things

(54:58):
or critically look at things.
And also from how they speak,how they explain, how they
present themselves.
So you are a confident surgeon,you you do uh amazing work.
And of course, you didn't learnall of that in your residency or
your training because I alwaysexplain people residency

(55:19):
fellowship is just like someonejust got their driver's license.
You still have to go out thereand drive.
You're not gonna become a racecar driver or even win a
championship coming out ofdriving school.
What is the what did you do?
I mean, obviously, you must haveput in some work of whether it
is that you went to courses,watched videos, or shadowed

(55:43):
other surgeons.
What would you recommend or whatadvice would you give a surgeon
that just came out of fellowshipto be like you, to be another
Britney?

SPEAKER_01 (55:57):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (55:58):
Confidence, I think, in surgery, especially being a
surgeon, is probably the hardestthing, and it's a lesson that
not everybody is ever gonnacomprehend or master.
But I would I wish people wouldeliminate the word the phrase
imposter syndrome from theirmind because I hear so many

(56:18):
young surgeons, people on socialmedia that talk about imposter
syndrome, and I know how thatfeels because you come out and
you're like, I you know, I'veonly done 10 of the, you know, I
shouldn't be the expert in this.
And but what if you were?
What if you just I'm the expertin this and I can do amazing
things, you know?

(56:39):
What if you shift?
It's a it's a mindset shift.
I know I've said it a milliontimes, but you have to, yeah,
you have to you have to believethat, or it's gonna come across
to everybody that you talk aboutthat you're unsure.
And I've had the cases where Ithought, you know, three cases
in a row where this one littlething happened, I'm like, okay,
I suck.
What am I doing?

(56:59):
You know, should I even be doingthis?
Is it worth it?
And and you learn and you getpast that and you think, no, I
should be doing this.
I'm doing the right thing.
There's something small I couldimprove on.
So I'm gonna do it.
And I'm gonna continue to be theexpert in this.
So it's definitely a mindsetshift, mindset shift where you
don't, it's not impostersyndrome.
Stop thinking that, you know, itis what do you want to be and

(57:22):
and go do that?
What is the person that is theexpert in facelifts?
What does that person do?
And then go do it.
Write it down in a list, put itin chat GPT, who cares?
What does an expert in thisfield do?
And then you start doing thosethings.

SPEAKER_00 (57:37):
I love that answer.
I think that was very valuablefor anyone listening right now
because imposter syndrome isreal.
It's I agree with you.
I heard it also somewhere elsewhere I don't know who it was,
just said exactly what you justsaid.
We should get rid of that termbecause that creates that is the
biggest hurdle that most can'tovercome.

(57:59):
And getting out of the gate,they don't even get started.
And I know a lot of surgeonsthat completed some of the best
fellowships, including some ofmy own fellows, that decided
they're not gonna practicecosmetic surgery, and I think
it's because of that.

SPEAKER_02 (58:14):
Yeah, and it's a crutch, and I don't think it
helps anybody.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (58:18):
And and I think a lot of it has to do with perhaps
how much I think passion is oneof the drivers that helps you
overcome it.
I can talk for myself, uh, Iresonate completely with what
you said, all these experiencesthat you're like, man, the
outcome wasn't what youexpected, and you're questioning
yourself, doubt kicks in, yousee other people doing great

(58:40):
work, you're thinking maybe Ishouldn't be doing this.
But personally, for me, and Iwant to know from you whether
that is the case as well, is Iwas so passionate about it that
I just didn't want to take no asan answer.
Those things made me constantlyimprove my skills, and I think

(59:00):
the driver of that was passion.
I really wanted to learn this,to learn how to be great, like
the great ones, and I'm stilldoing it.
I just bought two big textbookson rhinoplasty, and because I
want to learn even further newtechniques and and even improve
the results and the the littlethings.

(59:22):
I think sometimes the the fiveor ten percent missing things
make 90% of the entiredifference in your entire career
that could catapult you, get youto the next level or the
stratosphere.
And it's I think passion is theleading driver of all of that.
And if you're not passionate, uhwouldn't wouldn't you agree that

(59:43):
it it's really passion?
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (59:45):
If you're not passionate about something, you
you burn out.
You as soon as that's true,burnout, you say it's not worth
it anymore.
When you have those littlethings, you're like, why am I
doing this?
This isn't worth it, and you'redone unless you have passion.
That's the only thing that keepsyou on the horse, I think.

SPEAKER_00 (59:58):
Yeah, I think what and and I just realized that
actually very recently, and sonow when I interview for
fellows, I don't interviewanymore what program they came
from, or because I honestly Idon't know, everybody's
different.
I know residents from theprograms I graduated, we have
complete different abilities andsurgical skills.

(01:00:19):
So that is just one smallaspect.
I now try to screen for passionbecause I know if someone has
the passion, they will succeed.
And they obviously they musthave had good surgical skills
and must have been academicallycapable if they came this far.
So now, what is the X factor tobecome the next Britney?

(01:00:41):
I think passion is the wordbecause passion will help you
first of all overcome the mostimportant hurdle, which is
imposter syndrome, which thenwill enable you to constantly
hone in on your craft andimprove your skills and
constantly learn to becomebetter, learn from your
mistakes.
And that's how we grew.
And what people don't realizeevery surgeon, even the best in

(01:01:06):
the world, they had their firstpatient at some point.
And they were they're lackingself-confidence, unless they
were crazy, they were lacking agood amount of self-confidence
until they they obtained theknowledge and the skill to
become more confident.
But even the most confident, andthat's the Dunning Krueger

(01:01:26):
effect, right?
Yeah, even the most confconfident, as a matter of fact,
the most confident surgeons orpeople in general, they lack uh
they they they possess somethingcalled intellectual humility,
which is exactly what youpossess, which comes through
experience.
And that intellectual humilitymakes you constantly wanting to

(01:01:50):
learn more because you know thatfirst of all, you will never
know everything, you will nevermaster everything, and it's not
about those things, it's notabout an outcome, it's about the
process to constantly learn andjust get better.
Then your next surgery should bebetter than your previous
surgery.
And that's just step by step anddon't worry, don't look in the

(01:02:11):
rearview mirror other thanlearning from your mistake
instead of dwelling or puttingfuel on your imposter syndrome.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:18):
Yeah.
And as you said about your yourscreening for some of your
fellows now, it it reminded meof something as I was applying
to uh residency, you know, rightout of school.
Somebody said to me, Thisshouldn't be something that you
want to be want to do.
This shouldn't be something youwant to do.
This should be something youhave to do.
So for me, just that thatdefined passion to me.

(01:02:40):
And that that has stuck in mymind forever.
And when people come to me, youknow, asking how I got where I
am, getting through residencyand fellowship and applications,
I said, You should really thinkabout this before you even
apply.
Is this something you just youfound and you think you want to
do, or is this something youfeel like you have to do for
yourself?
And so that was really powerfulfor me.
And that I think that reallyinstills passion.

(01:03:02):
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:02):
I'm gonna use that now.
I call it uh the it's uhBrittany question.
So so my my question for you nowis did you possess so did you
have to do a fellowship or didyou want to do a fellowship and
then you realize that you'reactually passionate about which
came first, the chicken or theegg?

SPEAKER_02 (01:03:20):
Well, I wanted to do it first, and then I wanted to
do it as soon as I was out ofresidency.
I thought, man, I want to dothis so bad because I have to do
it.
I didn't I didn't know if I feltlike that.
And then I did my a few years inmy army service, and then I
thought I have to.
I went and saw Joe Nyamtu, andhe he was talking about the
training and things like that.

(01:03:41):
And you know what?
I thought I have to get thistraining to be again.
I want to be the expert, I wantto be the person that's doing
this.
What do I have to do to getthere?
Fellowship is what I had to do,so that that helped me through
that.
I knew I was passionate, andthat's what I had to do to
become the person that I hadenvisioned for myself.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:59):
I absolutely love that.
And I feel that you have tobecome a fellowship director
pretty soon.
And you know, our professionneeds people like you, and
you're very inspiring, you'revery passionate, and I believe
if you and it doesn't have to beanytime soon, whenever you're

(01:04:23):
ready for it, because it's alsoa decision that it's also a
business decision becausethere's a lot of responsibility
associated with it, and I knowyou're just building a second
location, a second practice, andthere's a lot of work.
I don't even know how you do itwith a six-year-old daughter,
and both you and your husbandworking.

(01:04:43):
I mean, it it's prettyimpressive, but though, how do
you manage that challenge, thelife work balance, and having a
six-year-old daughter and at thesame time a thriving practice
that you're growing like crazy?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:03):
We we make it part of our family.
Not that we bring home work orbring work home with us every
day, but our daughter knowswhich office we're going to.
She goes into the office, she'sgot her space where she does her
work.
She's in the backseat when I'mtaking her to school.
I turned around and she had myrhinoplasty book open.
She's, you know, I came home andshe said, I said, What's I fixed
a cheekbone today?
What's that called?

(01:05:23):
Zygoma, mom.
You know, so we bring her intoit and make her excited about
these are things we're doing,and these are the reasons that,
you know, mom and dad areworking, and it's it's setting
up her mindset for her ownsuccess in whatever she wants to
do.
But I think not, you know,everybody wants to say, this is
work, this is home life, andthey need to be separate.
You got to have this balance.

(01:05:44):
What if you don't need abalance?
What if they don't have to beseparated?
They can just work together.
You can have this quality,intentional time with your
family, but it can also belearning and guiding our
daughter into what success lookslike for us and what that could
look like for her too.
So we don't try to separate it.
That gets exhausting.
We just, you know, kind of mashit all together and make it this

(01:06:05):
continuum of balance, but butalso developing her and teaching
her and having really qualityrelationships.
It's so important.
You need that support system athome.

SPEAKER_00 (01:06:13):
I love that.
That's such great advice.
So, what what what do you guysdo for fun when you guys are not
working?
Is there, do you guys leaveyourself?
I know you're yeah, you are veryhealth and fitness oriented.
You know, I can tell from yourpost that you take your personal
health and wellness veryseriously, which is if you don't

(01:06:33):
take care of yourself, you can'ttake care of others.
How do you find time for that?
And as well as, you know, likevacations or time off from work.
I know it's hard when you'rebuilding a practice, but how do
you, what advice do you have orwhat are you struggling with?

SPEAKER_02 (01:06:49):
Well, I struggle with probably something that
everybody that owns a practicedoes.
It's like, you know, every daythat it's closed, that's money
out the door.
And especially now we have twopractices, it's it feels like,
oh my gosh, we're doubling down.
But you, like you said, if youdon't take care of yourself, I
get up early.
I work out every morning, so Idon't have to worry about it.
It is done, it is a part of myday.

(01:07:10):
So I'm taking care of that.
My husband and I schedulevacations for just us.
We schedule one with ourdaughter.
We have to plan ahead of time,but we do it and we do things as
a family.
We all golf together and inMichigan in the winter, it's
horrible.
So we don't golf, we go skiinginstead.
So we we find those things thatare natural ways to detach.
And that's what the balance I'mtalking about is you just you go

(01:07:32):
and do things that you'repassionate about and are healthy
and good for family life, andyou just naturally detach and
connect while you're out doingthose things that are away from
home, away from the office.

SPEAKER_00 (01:07:42):
Interesting.
So you just mentioned day notday outside of the office is
lost money.
How important is it just forperspective, how important is
money to you?
And is that because oftentimeswhen we talk to colleagues, you
know, they want conversation isthat, and there is no context

(01:08:06):
for it.
No one under no one can explainthe importance of it or how much
money is enough, and you losemoney or you you lose revenue
when you're not in the office.
So what?
Are you gonna starve?
Are you gonna go bankrupt?
So to put it in perspective, howimportant is that to you or both

(01:08:30):
of you and your husband asbusiness owners?
I'm just curious because that'ssomething the humble, sobering,
I guess, lesson in life Ilearned a little bit too late.
I wish I had learned it earlierand I wouldn't have tortured
myself.
But I want to hear from yousince you're still in your first

(01:08:50):
decade.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:51):
Well, it's scary.
I mean, you come out of schoolwith so much debt, and then you
you go into debt with apractice, and it's like that's
scary, you know, to think, oh mygosh, if something happened, uh,
how would I pay for all of thesethings?
But when you start to shift andrealize that your revenue or

(01:09:14):
things are probably going to bethe same, they're just gonna be
in a shorter or smaller amountof days, you can take those days
apart because you do need toreset your mind.
Because if you continue on andyou're just that driving is that
high performer all the time, youreally bog yourself down and
then you get in like this cyclein your mind where you're always
trying to come up with newthings and new problems to fix,
and you really need to stop andreset.

(01:09:36):
And that still allows you to goahead and, you know, get the
revenue that you need to tocover your business loan, to
cover your school loans.
But most of all, like we have awhole team of 20 people that
rely on us for their paychecks,and that's that's also important
too.
So, yes, there's all thosestressors, and it's so hard
first as you come out ofthinking about all of those

(01:09:57):
things.
But if you do prioritize health,time, teamwork, all of those
things, you will have a thrivingbusiness that you can plan ahead
and know these are the days wehave to take for team
development for us as families,and that is going to drive your
business forward and yourrevenue is not going to change.
You're still gonna be able tocover those loans.
It's just a mindset shift thatyou have to make that's so scary

(01:10:22):
when you have those huge debtscoming out of school or starting
your practice.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:26):
Absolutely.
And I think one of the things Iresonate with is that, and I
think it really burnt me out thefirst decade of my career where
I felt I had to put a stop on itbecause I burnt out.
And but then only very recently,uh two about two years ago, I'll
tell you a little story to thatpoint that you just made.

(01:10:49):
Because I think it's veryimportant for people to listen
to this and hear it.
And I wish I had heard myselftalk 20 years ago, and maybe you
find it interesting too.
We were coming out of a greatweekend with the family, and we
had so much fun.
And Monday turned, the kidsdidn't have school, I had to go

(01:11:11):
to work.
I know I had a very busy weekahead, and everybody was just
chilling, we were having acoffee, and I knew I had to run
out, and I just set out mythoughts loudly.
I said, Man, I wish I didn'thave to work today.
I so wish that I could havestayed with you all today.

(01:11:33):
And I didn't realize thatanybody was listening.
And my wife is like, Well, whydon't you?
And I said, I thought to myself,Well, because I have patient
schedule, I can't just not go towork.
She said, No, no, I understand,but why why don't you take m

(01:11:55):
because I said I wish I hadMondays off and I had a long
weekend uh every now and then orall the time.

unknown (01:12:02):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:03):
Getting too greedy.
And she said, Well, and then shesaid, Well, why don't you?
I said, Well, I have to go towork.
I mean, I have to pay bills andall of this and that.
I have a busy schedule.
I I have to, like, what do youmean?
She said, Well, you you own yourown business.
I mean, isn't that something youcan I mean, who do you need to
talk to?
I said, Well, myself, obviously.

(01:12:25):
She said, Well, can you justtake Mondays off?
And I said, And then all of asudden, for the first time, I
started thinking about it andconsidering it and calculating
in my head whether I could ornot.
And I was thinking, well, Idon't know, I guess I could, I
don't know.
She said, Well, why don't you?

(01:12:47):
So that stuck in my head as I'mdriving that morning to the
office, it was a 25-minutecommute for me.
I couldn't stop thinking aboutit, and I started to calculate
in my head how it would looklike, what if, and how I would
arrange it.
By the time I got to the office,I had decided that I'm just
gonna start off by taking everyother Monday off.

(01:13:08):
So I have two long weekends permonth, because that would be
enough for me.
And I just could take my son toschool and then go have
breakfast with my wife and justjust do nothing other than just
family and no work at all.

unknown (01:13:25):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:26):
Not really checking emails or anything.
And I walk in, I talk to Quinn,my coordinator.
I said, Quinn, I'm gonna takeevery other Monday off.
This is literally that morning.
I walk into the office, she'slike, What do you mean?
You like I said, Well, can we dothat?
Can you do that?
Do you think it will affect thebusiness?
She's like, thinks literally forthree seconds, goes like, No,

(01:13:48):
okay, yeah, you can do that.
Cool, all right.
And I'm like, Oh, that was easy.
I thought I'm gonna hitresistance, and they're gonna
say, Oh, you're crazy, you can'tdo that.
What are we gonna do withpatients?
I it was the most liberatingthing.
It was just this weight waslifted off my shoulders.
And I did it myself.
No one did it for me.
I made that this it was all adecision.

(01:14:09):
You know what happened,Brittany, after that?
This was two years ago.
My revenue grew 25% that year,and I was more productive than
ever, and at the same time morerelaxed, subjectively actually
feeling I'm working less, butthen I made more money.

unknown (01:14:30):
That's it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:31):
Everybody's better performance, what you just said.
That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:35):
So that's what happened, and now I'm
contemplating taking everyMonday off.
So, just to your point, is thatwe think we think if we do
something, it will affect usnegatively.
We always are fixated of whatare the negative things that
happen from our decisions andnever think what are the

(01:14:56):
positives that we could bemissing out based on our
decisions that we're making.
So it's all mindset, it's all inour heads.

SPEAKER_01 (01:15:04):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:04):
And I wish I had heard myself talk 20 years ago.
I swear to God, I would havedone it from day one.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:10):
Yeah.
Oh, that's great.
I mean, yeah, you said what doesit look like to be that guy that
can take his kid to school andand have breakfast with your
wife?
This this is the way.
And you did it.
You made it happen.
I mean, that's amazing.
That's it's gotta be so freeing.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:23):
So it it's so that's the if I were to give my
35-year-old self an advice, itwould be that don't be afraid of
making decisions because thosedecisions sometimes are the best
you make.
And then worst case scenario, Ihad thought myself too.
Of course, I had thought itthrough.
I said, hey, if it didn't work,I'll just go and work again on
every Monday now.
If it didn't work or it had anegative effect, I'm not gonna

(01:15:46):
go hungry or bankrupt, I canjust test it.
So uh sometimes we just have toovercome our own inner
resistance, and then everythingwill be fine.
Well, this was really funconversation.
I personally learned a lot fromyou.
I I it you're just so inspiring.
You you you your journey ismaking me as a fellowship

(01:16:10):
director even more so motivated.
My fellows already gettingannoyed uh hearing your name
constantly.
I I hope I don't uh pressurethem too much, but I always tell
them just just look at Britney,just if you do what she did,
you'll be fine.
Just go on our social media.
Uh, she does great work.
If if if you have any doubtswhether you can do something or

(01:16:34):
not, I like Zig Ziglar's quotethat if you know someone that
has done something, that meansit's possible.
And you're the perfect example.
And I know you took that,obviously, yourself as well, and
that's why you have reached, andI feel like you've only reached
the tip of the iceberg.
I can't, I'm really excited tojust observe your journey.

(01:16:56):
I'm one of your biggestcheerleaders, and at the same
time, I'm proud that I had asmall part in your journey.
But uh, from what I hear, you'reeverything you've achieved so
far just comes from who you areas a person, the humble and
empathetic person you are, andthe passion you possess for the
field.
And I think that's the secretsauce to success.

(01:17:19):
It's not something magical, it'swho you are and then who you get
to be.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:24):
Yeah, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:26):
Yeah, thank you, Brittany, and uh stay in touch.
And I can't wait to see you onfurther panels uh at the
scientific meetings or cadavercourses, and hoping that you uh
stay active.
And I know you're busy, but youknow, I'm counting on you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:17:41):
Yeah, amazing.
Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:43):
Good, thank you so much, Brittany.
All right, everyone, episode'sover.
Uh, I hope you enjoyed myconversation with Dr.
Brittany Aitson as much as Idid.
Uh, you can find her onInstagram under Dr.
Brittany underscore cosmeticsurgery, spelled dr.
Brittany underscore cosmeticsurgery.

(01:18:04):
One word on Instagram.
And if you enjoyed thisconversation, don't forget to
leave me a review on ApplePodcasts or leave comments on
Spotify so that more people canview or listen to this podcast
and benefit from it just likeyou did.
Again, this is your host, Dr.

(01:18:25):
Daria Hamra, and wishing you agreat day, and until next time,
bye bye.

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Meta Performance: How to Transcend in the Aesthetic Industry - with Dr. Brittany Eidson

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Meta Performance: How to Transcend in the Aesthetic Industry - with Dr. Brittany Eidson