November 11, 2025 • 51 mins
Healthcare is hiring — and not just for clinicians. As digital health systems expand and AI transformation efforts ramp up, there’s a growing demand for technical project professionals who can bring experience from tech, product, and government IT into healthcare environments. But if the opportunities are there, why aren’t more people making the pivot?
Galen chats with Rachel M. Keyser — healthcare IT consultant and founder of Project Elevation Partners — about what’s holding project professionals back, how to navigate the complexity and pace of healthcare work, and why your existing skills might be more transferable than you think. Whether you’re burned out by big tech or just curious about how to break into health tech, this conversation offers grounded, practical guidance for taking the leap.
Resources from this episode:
- Join DPM Membership
- Subscribe to the newsletter to get our latest articles and podcasts
- Connect with Rachel on LinkedIn
- Check out Project Elevation Partners
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Galen Low (00:00):
Are there more job opportunities for technical
project professionalsin healthcare than in
tech or government IT?
And if so, why aren't moreproject professionals pivoting
from some of these affectedindustries into healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (00:12):
Absolutely.
Many people may notknow actually that these
opportunities are here.
But here's the thing,really, you don't have
to start from scratch.
That's the beauty of it.
You have so many transferableskill sets, all you have
to do is really upskill orjust reskill, especially
on the healthcare sidebecause it's your skill in
tech that is being needed.
Galen Low (00:33):
What do digital project professionals
transitioning from otherfields need to know and
understand about the importanceof pace in healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (00:41):
You have to be very careful because
you are going to be dinged.
You're going to be fined bigdollars, like in millions if
any patient data gets out.
As much as we are trying to alsogo with the pace of AI, we have
to really slow down and justmake sure that the safety of the
data is there, the privacy isthere, the governance is there.
Galen Low (01:06):
What advice would you give to someone who is
making the transition intohealthcare as a project
manager today in 2025?
Rachel M. Keyser (01:12):
The first thing, if you haven't been
exposed to healthcare workflows,really to be successful,
you need to...
Galen Low (01:24):
Welcome to The Digital Project Manager
podcast — the show thathelps delivery leaders work
smarter, deliver faster, andlead better in the age of AI.
I'm Galen, and every week wedive into real world strategies,
new tools, proven frameworks,and the occasional war story
from the project front lines.
Whether you're steeringmassive transformation
projects, wrangling AIworkflows, or just trying to
(01:44):
keep the chaos under control,you're in the right place.
Let's get into it.
Okay, today we're talkingabout why the healthcare sector
needs talent from big tech andother non-medical sectors to
truly thrive, and how projectprofessionals can pivot into
the world of AI-forward digitalhealthcare transformation.
My guest today is RachelKeyser, a healthcare and IT
(02:05):
program management consultant,and the founder and CEO of
Project Elevation Partners.
Rachel is a project andprogram management trainer,
coach, and consultant inthe digital healthcare space
focusing on integrating AIworkflows for better outcomes.
She is also a keynote speakerand an advocate for the safe use
of AI in the healthcare space.
Rachel, thanks for beingwith me here today.
Rachel M. Keyser (02:26):
Thank you for having me,
Galen, on the podcast.
Galen Low (02:29):
It's such an honor.
I've loved ourconversation so far.
So like for our listeners,Rachel and I, we've been
nerding out about all thingshealthcare AI, and project
management for a few weeks now.
And actually it was tough forus to like isolate a topic
that we can kind of dig into.
And so for that reasonI kind of hope that we
zig and zag a little bit.
Here's the roadmap though, thatI've sketched out for us today.
(02:51):
To start us off, I wanted toget one big burning question
out of the way that likeuncomfortable but pressing
question that everyonewants to know the answer to.
But then I'd like tozoom out from that and
talk about three things.
Firstly, I want us to talkabout how the pace of change
is different in healthcare whencompared with other industries,
and why that's important.
Then I'd like to explore somepractical examples of how AI
(03:11):
can support healthcare projects.
And lastly, I thought maybewe could talk about just how
project professionals andtech specialists who have
no background in healthcarecan start their career
transition into the healthcarespace, if that's something
they're interested in.
Rachel M. Ke (03:24):
That sounds great.
Let's get it.
Galen Low (03:27):
Let me start with my one hot question.
Recently we've seen a lotof project professionals
who've been affected bymass layoffs in big tech.
And at the time of recording,we're also a couple weeks into
a US government shutdown whereit's possible that many public
sector employees will have theroles eliminated, and yet it
seems like technical projectleadership roles are actually
in demand in healthcare.
So here's my hot question.
(03:49):
Are there more job opportunitiesfor technical project
professionals in healthcarethan in tech or government IT?
And if so, why aren't moreproject professionals pivoting
from some of these affectedindustries into healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (04:00):
Absolutely.
Thanks, Galen.
First of all, I wanna say thatfor anyone who really is going
through these rifs in differentareas, both in big tech, in
government, you know, my heartis out to you because it's
not easy out there as we know.
And then to answer yourquestion, absolutely.
This is happening at the sametime, as you say, many people
(04:22):
may not know actually thatthese opportunities are here.
Additionally, like anyoneelse who may be seeking a
job, they may be thinking, oh,I don't have this skillset.
They, no one will actuallyaccept me in terms of, you know,
the job that they apply for.
But here's the thing,really, you don't have
to start from scratch.
(04:43):
That's the beauty of it.
You have so manytransferable skill sets.
And so all you have to do isreally upskill or just reskill
for some of the different skillsthat are being sought after,
especially on the healthcareside because it's your skill
in tech that is being needed.
Okay?
And then also for thepeople, first of all, that
(05:06):
either are already projectmanagers or program managers.
All you have to do is land thehealthcare workflow part of it.
And honestly you are inthe running for, you know,
applying for this job.
So the first thing why maybethey're not is they don't know.
Okay?
They don't know that theseskillset are being sought after.
(05:26):
And this one thingactually, I'm talking
about a lot on my LinkedIn.
I give examples of the skillsetsbeing sold after I give
examples of the jobs I post.
You know, what thelinks are to those jobs.
Okay?
And then I tell them, allyou have to do guys, is
I'll give you an example.
Is that okay?
Galen Low (05:45):
Yeah.
I, I was gonna askyou for an example.
That'd be great.
Rachel M. Keyser (05:47):
Yeah.
A good example is I posteda job yesterday where they
want TypeScript, they wantNode, they want Python or
you know, JS Node, is it?
Galen Low (05:59):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Node.js.
Yeah.
Rachel M. Keyser (06:00):
That's some other technical few skills.
Something like that.
And then they say a bonusis if you know this part of
healthcare, meaning it's veryhelpful for you to know that
part, at least to give youa chance to get that job.
So all you have to do isupskill for that, and really
you are in the running.
Galen Low (06:19):
What about titles because I think some people,
it's funny you mentioned that,you know the sort of like
nice to have some generalbackground in healthcare, but
not necessarily a requirement.
I think what you're saying isthat actually what healthcare
is looking for in some of thesemore technical roles, like they
want the talent from big tech.
They want the talent.
Yes.
Who is like deep into thetechnology and coders and the
(06:40):
people who are AI forward.
But I find sometimes peoplewon't even like click on the
posting like the actual titlesometimes because the job title
actually isn't or doesn't soundlike a role that they could do.
Do you find that thetitling is a little bit
different in healthcare?
Are there some inflectionsor nuances that maybe give
people that pause or hesitationto be like, yeah, I don't
(07:01):
think I could do that job.
It's got like oncology next toit, so I don't think that's me.
Rachel M. Keyser (07:06):
That's a very good point actually,
Galen, because so theymentioned especially the
titles in addition to oncology.
It could be, forexample, front end.
When I say front end,on the front end of,
because there's also frontend engineering, right?
It could be the frontend of healthcare.
And then there's also theback end of healthcare,
which is also the back endof, you know, engineering.
(07:29):
Right?
So you find that.
The front end and the backendin the healthcare speak might be
the exact names they're using.
Could be the registrationbackend has to do with
billing and all the differentactivities that happen there.
Right?
Or even the what revenue cycle.
So this means that reallywhat you're saying, they
(07:52):
may say, okay, this doesn'tapply to me because of this.
But really all that you wouldneed to do is to learn that
part of, you know, the overallworkflow of healthcare,
and then you integrateit with your skillset.
That's all they want.
That's really all they want.
Right.
So I argue that as Galen issaying, is that really click on
(08:16):
these jobs and look at the exactskillset because they spell
them out, what it is they need.
And then from there is wherereally you can determine if
this is something you canlook into or not look into.
But again, with the number ofpeople out there with the job,
how the job market is, I reallyurge you to be open-minded.
(08:37):
You have to be able, inthis market, you have to
be able to pivot, you know?
Galen Low (08:42):
I agree.
It's funny 'cause I wantedto come back to something you
said where you're talking aboutthe front end of healthcare,
the back end of healthcare,billing, administration.
I think a lot of folks, at leastin my circle, they think of
healthcare project management.
They think likemed tech devices.
They think of, you know,like big process initiative
changes like, or process changeinitiatives rather, you know,
(09:03):
they're thinking of thingsthat are kinda like a, what
would the project be behindwhatever Grey's Anatomy, that's
the picture in their head.
You mentioned thesethings, right?
Right.
Like billing, administration,fundamentally the system,
you know, operates in asimilar way to a business.
And you know, you mentioneda few things like how can
someone go about gettingthat general knowledge of how
the healthcare system works?
(09:24):
Is there a course?
Are there books?
Should we watchGrey's Anatomy more?
Rachel M. Keyser (09:29):
I love it.
You know, listen,watching Grey's Anatomy
doesn't hurt, right?
Unless you have some fun.
But when we go into theactual nitty gritty of things,
you have to upskill a bit.
So where can one upskillthe different outlets?
Right?
There are people like me,actually, professionals
(09:51):
who have been in thisindustry over 20 years.
Ah, i'm not aging myself.
Anyway, but over 20 yearsthat have worked in this
industry from beginning to end.
So we know we have a verygood handle on how things
are, what is needed.
And then they're also onlinewhere they could be talking,
for example, YouTube.
(10:12):
They could be talking aboutsome aspects of what it
is, you know, the differentsectors or the different
parts of those workflows.
And it could also beperhaps like Coursera.
I've looked there thoughI haven't seen anything.
But there could be thingslike that, Coursera or
Udemy, things like that.
You know, those kinds ofresources now you just have
(10:34):
to know where it is thatyou need to get what it is.
If you want the whole thing andyou want someone to walk you
through it, like handholding,give you a project, someone
like what I provide is helpful.
If you want just the highlightsand all of that, you can
also find them, you know,in the Udemy or Coursera,
that kind of, you know,resources or even on YouTube.
(10:56):
Yeah, free.
Just know that it dependson what it is you want.
Yes, you can find free.
There's nothing bad aboutit, it's just that are you
going to get everythingthat you need to know?
In other words, do you havesomeone that you're going
to work with that willhelp you, give you more
than what is being offered.
Galen Low (11:15):
That pairing, I like.
Rachel M. Keyser (11:16):
But otherwise the resources are there.
Galen Low (11:18):
Yeah, it makes sense because you know,
I'm thinking, I'm like,okay, I go onto YouTube.
I search, whatever how the UShealthcare system works, I'm
gonna get a very high levelgeneral animated, explain it to
me like I'm five type of video,but how do I plug that into how,
what my job would look like asa program or project leader.
And I like that pairing withsomebody who's just been doing
(11:39):
it for over a decade, knows thesystem in and out, like a coach
or a mentor who can actuallygive you more specific advice.
Especially if you're looking ata role and you're like, I don't
even know what I'd need to know.
In order to sort of bequalified for this role or
like level up to this role.
And I think it's reallyinteresting that a lot of the
healthcare professionals thatI've been talking to recently
(12:00):
have been in the industry.
They are long tenured.
You know, they'repassionate, they stay in
the industry a long time.
They've seen it all.
And those are the peoplethat you know you'd want
to have in your corner tokind of help you understand.
Rachel M. Keyser (12:13):
Exactly.
And Galen, to add onto thatalso, like you said, someone
who will handhold you right.
Like I'm being upfront.
I'm not just saying becauseI want you to come to me.
Those resources are out there.
It is just that youare not going to get
the deep detail right.
Again, if you want just ahigh level, you can get it,
(12:34):
but there are really manynuances to it, and also that.
There's so many.
I think we know all of us.
Healthcare is a bitcomplex out there.
It is complex.
Let me just say, I'm beingconservative about a bit.
It is complex.
So when I say that is that,you know, you're going to
find bits and pieces andthat could be okay if it,
(12:55):
you know exactly where to go.
The thing though, if you lookat it, I mean, it doesn't
even in this case, haveto be healthcare, right?
It could be any industry.
If you want to find, niceworkflow, someone who will
show you this is how itworks because of this.
And the thing also withhealthcare, it's very
dependent on the processbefore that, right?
So you know how in tech youmust know that Gale, they say
(13:19):
garbage in, garbage out, right?
That's the same thing.
Like if you start with baddata or things like that's
what you get on the backend,right down the workflow.
Should we say downstream, right?
Meaning that.
You'll get someone who showsyou really handhold you show
you these are the areas youcan do, or this particular
(13:40):
job like we talked about.
This is where they wantyou to, what to work.
However, you also need to knowthis kind of information, right?
To be successful.
The other thing alsois that when you have a
project manager, trust me,I'm PMP certified, right?
But even.
For you or anyone else who hasdone the PMP, the information
(14:03):
is so much that once you getcertified, you're like, oh
my God, okay, what do I use?
What do I not use?
You know what I mean?
So someone have been in thetrenches, they know what exactly
applies in the real world.
They have a framework, andthat framework makes your
life much easier, right,than just wondering, oh,
okay, it's all of this.
(14:23):
Then what do I do with it?
Just to also agree with youthat it's good really to have
someone at least who handholdyou or at least give you what it
is that you need to work with.
Galen Low (14:35):
Love that.
I had never thought of it thatway until you said it, but Yeah.
You know, we always the PMP examgets a lot of flack because it's
like, oh, okay, and then teachus what we do in the real world.
But actually in terms oflearning a bunch of stuff
that is relatively foreign.
Then having to pick and choosewhat to use, that is a skill
in and of itself, and I couldsee that being applicable if
(14:56):
you're just trying to likedeepen your knowledge of
workflow in the healthcaresystem, you know, one sliver
of the healthcare system, yeah,you're gonna have to drink from
the fire hose and then decide,you know, what little drops
of water exactly to choose.
I wonder if we couldzoom out a little bit.
Your background is in digitalhealthcare, and you've been
working closely with cliniciansand I imagine chief medical
(15:18):
officers and maybe regulatorsand IT teams, and you have
to somehow sort of findthat balance between them.
And one of the thingsthat you said to me in our
first conversation was thatwhen it comes to AI and
healthcare, we need to go slow.
In other words, digitalhealthcare seems to happen
slowly compared with techstartups and big tech
agencies and consultancy life.
(15:38):
What do digital projectprofessionals transitioning from
other fields need to know andunderstand about the importance
of pace in healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (15:47):
So one of the things, Galen, as you
know yesterday, in fact, iswhen we're supposed to have
this podcast recorded, Itold you that I was coming
from a conference, right?
It had to do with AI, right?
So I bring that becauseit was a major thing that
came up also in there.
So the difference is that.
(16:07):
In healthcare, like let's saymany of the very regulated
industries, which is likehealthcare and maybe finance, is
that you have to be very carefulbecause you are going to be
dinged, you're going to be fine.
Big dollars, like in millionsif any patient data gets out.
So organizations haveto be very careful.
(16:29):
And as you know right now,before you create that nice
cocoon of, you know, your ownlittle ecosystem of AI, right?
You have to really make surethat nothing is going out.
Right.
With that said, whyit's a bit slow.
In fact, those are sayingwhere one of the doctors
was a speaker say that youhave to go fast but slow.
(16:50):
And what it means is that at thesame time, as much as we were
trying to also go with a paceof AI, we have to really slow
down and just make sure thatthe safety of the data is there.
The privacy is there,the governance is there.
And so in healthcare, likeany other regulated system,
(17:13):
these are things that have tofirst be put in place before
you even think of studyinga project, for example,
of where you're going toimplement or integrate your AI.
What is the governance?
How do we make sure thatthe people who are using
the AI and not actuallytaking things outside of
the system and using patientdata or anything like that?
(17:35):
We call it PHI, whichis you know exactly the
privacy of the patient data.
So that is a difference.
For example, this is justto give a comparison.
Let's say Google, one of thebig tech companies, the data
that's usually used, right,every day that we use it.
I'm not saying they'renot taking caution.
(17:56):
They probably are,but not really.
They don't have to because it'sthe everyday use that we use
it for, unlike in healthcare.
Even you, anyone, right?
We don't want our data outthere or being, getting access.
So that is the reasonthat you have to fast.
Do, for example, theinfrastructure of, let's say
(18:16):
the networks, the infrastructureof the hardware and all of
those things, just to makesure that you have, at least
within your environment,that is not gonna go out.
So that's the thing that youhave to be able to apply the
AI, but then you have to slowdown to ensure that everything
you're doing okay doesn'tbring problems down the road.
(18:38):
So that's the reason for that.
Galen Low (18:40):
I mean, it's a really good point when, you
know even outside of healthcare,we're like, yeah, you could
probably get fined for that.
You know, all this likesensitive information.
Yes, I know.
We're all like, like, oh,millions of dollars and you
know, obviously those rulesare in place for a good reason.
This is, you know,sensitive information.
I wouldn't want mypersonal health data
flying around everywhere.
I love that image that youplanted in my head of like
(19:03):
this cocoon of AI tools.
It's kind of this lovely sortof like picture in my head.
But you're right.
It's like you can't justwalk into healthcare and
have your own tools and theagents that you've built
and just plug them in.
And go, because all thatprivacy, the sensitivity
of the information meansthat the privacy is only
strong as the weakest link.
And if you haven't builtthose things, you can't go
(19:23):
download that free tool andjust like start using it or
use your personal ChatGPTaccount to plug in a data set
that involves patient records.
There are these thingsthat need to be in place.
And it's funny what you saidabout the fast and slow.
Actually someone on a differentepisode, they used that turn
of phrase, smooth is slow.
Rachel M. Keyser (19:43):
Yes.
Galen Low (19:44):
And slow is fast.
I've probably butchered that.
I maybe butchered that.
Rachel M. Keyser (19:50):
You know I've heard of it, Galen.
I think it's actually apparentlya Navy somewhere in the one.
Galen Low (19:55):
Is it?
Okay.
I wasn't sure of the origins.
That makes sense though, right?
Yeah.
Slow is smooth andsmooth is fast.
Rachel M. Keyser (20:00):
I think it's the Navy I had or something like
that, but I've heard of it too.
Even me by the way.
I'm butchering it.
But you said it right?
I think what you said andsmooth is fast, you said?
Yeah, I think that'sexactly how they say it.
Yeah.
Galen Low (20:16):
To put my Canadian analogy on it, you kind of
need to like Zamboni, right?
You Zamboni is slow, butit makes the ice smooth and
that it primes everything.
The game can go ahead and youwon't hit as many of these
roadblocks, dips and divotsin the ice that trip you up.
It's interesting becausethe urgency is still there.
I think there's a lot of peoplewho might just assume it's
(20:38):
gonna be bureaucratic and likeboring by the sounds of it.
It's actually exciting,but you have to be careful.
And even just to come back tothe Navy bit, it's like, because
those are people's lives.
And the same istrue in healthcare.
Like these are people'slives, livelihood across
patients and caregiversand clinicians, and we're
(20:58):
dealing with important stuff.
Rachel M. Keyser (20:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And just making sure thatyou have everything you
know, tight as well as.
Also providing thoseabilities of AI for whatever
the institution is, right?
And you as a projectmanager, by the way, that's
the heart that we shouldput on because also we are
guiding these projects, okay?
(21:20):
These are the things thatwe have to be very aware
ourselves and ensure that.
Actually be a partner withwhatever the organization is,
whatever the teams are, becausesometimes may not be, this big
project could start from a pilotor something, but that we are
the ones who are the advocates.
(21:41):
We are the ones who arethe forefront of that.
We are thinking about theseitems as well as working with
our partners, the stakeholders.
Right.
Galen Low (21:49):
I like that viewpoint of like, it's a partnership.
It's not just about gettingthe project done quickly.
It's about getting theoutcomes and the project done.
Right.
In your practice at ProjectElevation Partners, like, have
you worked with folks who'vecome from a bit of a technology
background, a fast-paced, like,almost like startup environment
and moved into healthcare?
And if so, like what was themost jarring thing for them
(22:11):
and how would you advisethem if they kind of started
to find, they're like,wow, this is like tedious.
Rachel M. Keyser (22:17):
I think I've worked with, yes, with
those people, but also itwas a little bit different.
In addition, maybe to startup,it was also where they wanted
to implement things Using agile.
Agile is okay if you areworking from a software
perspective, right?
The only thing that is difficultis when you're doing the
(22:38):
actual builds of the system.
If the software is alreadythere and you're doing the
actual build, not the software,but the build of the system
is the configuration and thatkind of thing, agile will
most probably not work well.
You may have to maybedo a hybrid type thing.
Right?
But waterfall is whatusually works best.
(22:59):
And I'm not saying it's theonly one that's used, I'm just
saying we have to be smart.
To gauge where to use, what typeof format of project management,
what will go best, and thatis maybe the part to answer
your question that some maynot realize that the big tech,
let's say, or startup, dependingon what the startup is.
(23:19):
Also, you may use agileand that kind of format
of project management, butmany times when you come.
To the healthcare side andby those on a big project,
I won't mention who, butit was a big company.
It's also known, butI won't say which one.
The project had to be canceled.
It's sad.
(23:40):
After using all this money.
And we were advising themthat this may not work.
This is a differentset of how things work.
Because it's so interdependentfrom one to the other and
you know, agile is like, youknow, you do the sprint and
then you move on and it, thisjust doesn't work like that.
So that is where thefast, but slow comes in.
(24:01):
You may have, or you maywant the project to go fast.
But it's how you actuallyimplement also or do the build.
That really will make a bigdifference because of the
interdependency, like from onestage of the workflows to the
other, you have to first buildthis out and then do this.
It's like you can't just keepand go to this other one.
(24:22):
Right?
So that's maybe where peoplehave to learn that, okay, we
may want to go fast, but wehave to slow down a little
bit because it has to besequential, almost sequential
all the time because of that.
Galen Low (24:36):
I like the theme that's come back again, right?
This notion of discretionof being able to choose
the right tool, when to usea thing and when not to.
I'm imagining, but I actuallywanted to confirm like part of
the reason for that linearityis because of regulation
and the regulatory bodies.
Yes.
And the likestakeholder ecosystem.
It's not like one person whodecides, yes, this is good.
(24:56):
Good enough for this workflowon, you know, let's move
on to the next thing.
It's actually like it needsto go through a number of
different groups and bodies.
Yeah.
Regulatory bodies, like inorder to make sure it is
compliant for moving on.
Rachel M. (25:11):
Galen you are right.
And it may not be necessarilylike it's every stage
has a regulatory body.
Let's take a hospital 'cause Iwanna use, and, you know, I've
worked in different settingsso we can talk about that.
But let's take ahospital, right.
That workflow that may be withinhealthcare, there's a regulatory
laws and rules and all of thatquality and all of that exists.
(25:35):
For sure.
Those are there, right?
Every stage may not have its ownregulatory, you know, like you
have to start and stop and getapproval, some kind of thing.
The actual approval that youhave to get is from the people
that work and all manage theadministrators that workflow.
This first stage, thenthe next stage, and then
(25:56):
the next, that's whereexactly that happens, right?
And this is really to preventdownstream, like we've
said, 'cause it's so linear,like you said, to prevent
any problems downstream.
Because if you don't do thisright, trust me, downstream
is going to be very bad.
And that's not what you want.
And this is millions ofdollars could be lost.
(26:18):
Could even bankruptan organization if
you don't do it right.
Because also in my experience,because I've been a consultant
for a lot of time, and youcould go to some organizations
and they're like, we don'tknow what the problem is, but
we're not getting our money.
The money is not coming.
Right?
And so you have to goand look at, okay, what
(26:38):
is exactly the problem?
Where is the, you know,whether they call it a
leakage, where is a leakage?
Where's the money leaking to?
Or where is the roadblock?
'cause they don't know.
Right.
And so you find that thosesetups have to be, usually
everyone is in a room literallyworking together because they
(26:58):
know that if you don't haveit right here, it's going to
affect someone down the road.
Right.
And so the approval, yes,the approval are going to
come into that workflowfrom the business side.
'cause you have to workin tandem with them.
They're technical people.
That is where the partnershipreally comes in, actually.
Galen Low (27:17):
That's really interesting.
That's interesting.
I wanted to come back to thatcocoon of AI tools, if you will.
You had recently given atalk about the application
of AI in project management.
I was wondering if you haveany sort of favorite examples,
maybe even of some healthcarespecific use cases that can
help a project professionallearn and stay up to speed with
(27:38):
industry specific considerationslike we're talking about
things like complianceand regulation and ethics.
And even just, you know,inter-agency interdepartmental
workflows, like can, howcan AI help a project
professional here?
Rachel M. Keyser (27:52):
The first thing is from just a pure
project management part ofit, AI helps us really get
some things done much faster.
A big part of it iscreating templates, right?
For example, if you usinga, you have to, let's say,
start from beginning creatingyour chatter templates.
And then also if you havea framework already and
(28:15):
you have certain prompts.
Let me back up a little bit.
The other thing about it isthat it depends how you want
to implement or integrate AIinto your one's processes.
One of the things I wouldrecommend is one, create
specific prompts, forexample, that you found that
work for the organizationor particular projects.
In this case for healthcare,especially if you know which
(28:38):
part of the healthcare workflowmaybe that is going to be,
and if you don't, that's okay.
As we know, you can, you know,when you're creating those
prompt templates, you put ablank and then someone fills it
in with whatever applies, right?
Those kinds of things.
The second part is thatdepending on what part
of the workflow you'regoing to work in, meaning
(28:58):
healthcare, workflow.
If you ask it that, Hey,this is for example, the
project I'm working on.
We're going to be doing thisand I need you to show me,
for example, what are thedifferent areas that I can
make sure that we are workingor implementing a certain way?
You know, you can definethat way or you can ask for
(29:20):
it to help you with that.
That it'll help youto create what those.
Let's say risks in this caseor mitigations would be, or
particular items that youhave to look and make sure
that they're in place, right?
You as a project manager,and then also, like I
talked about the framework.
There's a framework I useand that if you implement
(29:43):
that or ask it from aperspective that you do help
outline those items for you.
Let's say you're creatingyour project team worksheet.
You're creating your riskmitigation worksheet.
Of course, this applies towhatever specific area you are
applying to, because I mean,generally as a project manager,
those are things you'll ask.
(30:03):
But from a healthcareperspective, it's going
to give you different.
Should I say responses?
Depending on what it is you'reworking, right, and so you find
that it's going to guide you.
Also be your co-pilotin that regard.
And if you're someone new, likewithin healthcare, definitely
sometimes you may not knowparticular areas to ask.
(30:25):
But if you get, like I talkedabout earlier, that upskill,
you get to know at least what isit that I can ask specifically?
Because as you know, right, wemay have the tools, but if you
don't ask the right questions,you don't get the right answers.
Right?
Galen Low (30:38):
Absolutely.
Rachel M. Keyser (30:39):
Yeah.
So that's how we use it.
Galen Low (30:41):
I think it's like a good tie in as well to something
we were talking about earlierabout getting into a career
in healthcare as a productmanager, program manager, or
some project based capacity.
Even just that you don'tknow what you don't know.
And sometimes when you saylike, risk management, what
could go wrong or Right.
I guess within a type ofproject in this workflow,
(31:02):
within the healthcare systemis gonna give you a whole
bunch of different risks then.
Exactly.
If you just said, Hey,I'm building software for
a team of administrators.
I'm imagining, and Ilove using generative AI
for risk identification.
And sometimes Yeah, with thewrong prompts, you're just
gonna get generic things.
Right?
Rachel M. Keyser (31:21):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Or those thatdon't apply, right?
Galen Low (31:25):
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It won't be relevant andwon't be specific enough.
I really do like that.
Something that you and I talkedabout when we last chatted.
Two sides of the spectrum.
One was like HIPAA and thenthe other one was SOC 2, right.
Like in terms of you knowsort of like the security
data security side of things.
All of these are kind of likebig topics and I'm that person
(31:45):
and I've done a little bitof work in healthcare, not
directly, but via agencies.
Rachel M. Keyser (31:49):
I remember you, you shared that with me.
Galen Low (31:51):
Yeah.
And it's like, it's closeto my heart, but if I went
into a job description, orif somebody gave me a project
that was like, yes, but pleasemake sure that everything
you do is HIPAA compliant.
Is SOC 2 compliant?
I'd be like, sorry, what?
Like I don't knowit off by heart.
I don't know these, you know,I don't know these protocols,
these systems, the rules andthe compliance well enough.
(32:11):
And I might just be like,sorry, that's somebody else.
Like, that's not me.
But then I like that what yousaid about like a copilot.
Could AI be a bit of a copilotfor navigating regulation
and compliance and some ofthese sets of very noble,
but very complicated rules.
Rachel M. Keyser (32:31):
Exactly.
I like how you say that.
That is so true, Galen because,listen, even I've worked in
healthcare, what, 20 years.
Have you listened recently?
And this is not being political.
I mean, there's so manyrules that come out.
You can't keep up.
Right.
Galen Low (32:48):
Can't keep up.
Yeah, exactly.
Rachel M. Keyser (32:49):
I've used actually AI to help me.
Okay.
Really to go onto the CMSis you know, the Centers
for Medicaid Services.
It's the, essentiallythe healthcare governing
body, federal governingbody of the us.
It's called CMS.
So if anyone hears me sayingthat, that's what that
means, it's the federalgovernment healthcare system.
(33:11):
Literally to ask, okay,what is the rule for this?
Like, I've doneprojects in home care.
By the way, one of the biggestEHR is from Canada Point
Click care, just so you know.
Yeah.
And you have to find out whatthe rules are because the
rules change, the reimbursementchange, and then you have to
ensure that you are trackingthese types of metrics
(33:32):
and this kind of thing.
So as a project manager, forexample, you have to ensure
that, okay, you're very aware.
It's top of mind that whatare these new rules about?
Right?
And it's absolutely veryhelpful because it'll pull
that, especially if you ask,give, show me the references.
The good thing now it'simproved as you know.
(33:52):
Many times, you don'thave to ask it, but I
would put that there.
Show me the references ofwhere you're getting this from,
just to make sure, because youknow AI also is not a hundred
percent right sometimes.
Okay.
It'll show you exactlywhere those are, so
absolutely using it as aco-pilot is very helpful.
Co-pilot, co strategist, youjust have to know sometimes
(34:14):
where it is or what it is thatyou need, like I said, and ask
the right questions in orderto get the right answers.
Or the information that pertainsto what it is that you're doing.
Galen Low (34:25):
That's such a good call out about the
citations because you know,we always talk about being
the smart human in the loop.
Right.
Being the human in the AI loop.
Exactly.
That's exactly whereit will matter.
Because to your point, if itwere to maybe get it wrong,
not saying that it would,but it could get it wrong.
And coming back to thepoint you said earlier, that
could cost your organizationmillions of dollars, if it
(34:45):
was the wrong thing, checkthe citation, double check.
It still cuts down the time,and I think the biggest point
that you made there was,you know, you're someone
who's done two decadesin the healthcare system.
It's too much for anyprofessional who's even that
experienced or that closeto it to know everything.
And I think a lot of the timefrom the outside we're like, oh,
I'd have to like memorize CMS,I should go and like learn it.
(35:08):
Like I'm a, like a lawyer.
I have to like have allof the laws in my head.
Yeah.
You know, and know whatpart of the code it
was and all that stuff.
But not necessarily.
We have these co-pilotshere and frankly it's
not just a newbie thing.
It's like a lot of medicalprofessionals and folks working
in the healthcare system don'thave it on total recall and
it's changing all the time.
(35:29):
So we kind of needthese tools in place.
I think that's great.
Rachel M. Keyser (35:33):
Galen, I just wanted to go a little bit.
That's a very good point youjust brought up that you don't
really have to know everything.
Frankly the good thing now, whenyou type in AI, now everything
comes, but before, for example,you had to Google or go on the
website itself directly, andyou are searching, okay, where
(35:53):
this rule or this or that,or whatever the regulatory
rule or the regulatory.
Consideration or you know,guardrails or whatever it
is and now is, you know, youjust get all of it at once.
That's a good thing.
But the main thing I wantto point out is what you
just said, that you don'thave to know everything
(36:13):
off the top of your head.
Even as we are looking.
Trust me, even the doctors,even the administrators,
it's hard to keep up.
It's really hard, right.
So everyone is lookingjust to make sure.
As long as you look and youfind out what the information
is and you know these are theparameters under which I have to
work, or do this type of projector this type of thing, and
(36:37):
make sure that we are gettingthis outcome according to what
is needed, then you're good.
It's a tool that weall would use for sure.
Galen Low (36:45):
No, it's funny because like, you
know, the nature of theindustry is fast paced.
There's too much to know.
And I think coming back tothat cocoon of AI tools, right?
If you're coming from abackground where you're
like, okay, well this is sospecialized, we can like build
some apps, we can divide code,some apps, we can, you know,
build some agents or I've gotmy like, set of tools that I
(37:06):
can use, but like not everyhealthcare organization, maybe
any healthcare organization canjust use any tool willy-nilly.
Coming back to what we saidat the beginning is that, you
know, it's like we can't havethese weak links in the chain,
you know, not to take it tooliterally, but sometimes,
you know, we mentioned asa co-pilot, sometimes it
is just Microsoft co-pilot.
I'm imagining because it'sbeen vetted at the enterprise
(37:27):
level, it's, you know, bakedinto some of the systems.
It probably has achievedthat level of compliance.
It's tick that box.
But then does it kind ofrequire a different mindset to
be creative about how to useAI within a system like that?
Whereas you can't just goand use every tool that
just got released and youknow, make a Sora video of
yourself and upload it tosome other tool that you got.
(37:47):
It seems confined in someways, but are there ways
to be resourceful andcreative using the tools
that have been approvedwithin your organization
in the healthcare space?
Rachel M. Keyser (37:56):
So in this case, are you asking about the
project management tools or areyou asking about, let's say,
the healthcare EHR, for example?
The electronichealth record system?
Galen Low (38:09):
Let's do both.
Rachel M. Keyser (38:11):
We do both.
Galen Low (38:11):
Can we do both?
Because I like that idea of, youknow, like we're talking about
the use case of as a projectmanager or project leader.
Yeah.
You might need to have a bitof a co-pilot, but I guess
you raised a good point.
Your project might be to buildsomething that involves EHR,
like medical health records,patient information, and that
will be constrained as wellin terms of what is possible
(38:32):
versus what is allowed.
Rachel M. Keyser (38:34):
Absolutely.
So let me start with that one.
Listen, one of the things thatI, you remember now going back
to the conference part, like Ijust came from one yesterday and
it was really very enlighteningbecause we were getting
really feedback from whatsome of the leaders are doing.
(38:54):
And you find that one ofthem, they are talking
about what they've done.
They've created those copilots.
They realize that, for example,for the doctors, even though
they've added the abilityto create the GPTs, they
can't also just have everyonecreating these things because
it's going to be a mess.
It's going to be what?
(39:15):
So they have had to control it.
Okay.
Meaning they create onethat everyone can use.
And also behind thescenes, they put a prompt
that create the type ofinformation that they need.
And so you find that.
Within the constraints thatthey're actually giving that
power over to the providers,in this case, the clinicians,
(39:39):
but they also have to be verycareful because you just can't
willy nilly give everyone tobe creative because it's going
to be a whole total mess.
The other thing they wassaying because of that.
That it giving themability to create like
a mini page for them.
Okay, let me give an example.
Patient has some history,and forgive me, I'm not
(40:00):
being very health oriented,but I have to, in this case.
A patient who's had manysickness ailments and all
of that, it's a hassleyou can imagine to go
and look at everything.
Okay, what's the medication,the history, what is it?
They have differentprompts that can say,
okay, what's the condition?
The summary, whatis the medication?
(40:20):
The summary, 'causethey have all this whole
long list of things.
They got one maybeyesterday before, you know
you knew you as a doctor.
What?
Maybe you saw them last month ortwo months ago, something Right?
But they got one fromanother provider or doctor
who is not even maybewithin your hospital system.
(40:41):
But now they've made itthat the hospital systems
at least talk to each other.
Meaning if a patient hasgone from one hospital to the
other, okay, you can see, eventhough you don't belong to that
hospital, at least as a doctor,you can see that information.
So all to say that it's a lotof information or data in this
(41:01):
case from a tech perspective,data that you're working with.
And so even though thatthey've provided the AI tools.
They have to restrict it alittle bit because otherwise,
if they give the clinicians allthis access that, oh, create
a GPT that does this, and thencreate another one that does,
(41:22):
it's going to be a total mess.
Right?
So even then, within thatcocoon of the tools that we
are talking about, it's notthat they're limiting per se,
but they're giving the tools,but they have to limit them.
They have to holdback a little bit.
They can't just go full stream.
And also, that was a goodquestion you asked because I
(41:43):
also did ask that, how are yougoing with how fast AI is going?
GPT-5 was released afew months ago, right?
And now just what, last weeksome Oldman talked about how
now the apps are integratedwithin the, like I was asking,
how are you guys even keepingup with all of this stuff?
We, as project managers,those are the things
(42:04):
we have to think about.
So, and that's where thegovernance now comes.
Okay.
Just because okay.
Also, everythingis being released.
They can't just go at that speedof the whole innovation of AI.
They have to hold theback a little bit and also
think about the future.
How is it that they have to be?
So you find that there'sso many stakeholders
(42:26):
that are really involved.
Within this decision makingand therefore creating those
guardrails, those limits,and those kinds of things.
In fact, there's anew, it's called CHAI.
It's an NGO, nonprofitorganization created
exactly for that reasonto put some guardrails
(42:47):
around it because they'reusing it in different ways.
For example, theytalked about equity.
We find that manyof the hospitals.
In fact, they gave examples.
Many of the hospitals, forexample, that I have all
this AI really more in the,you know, in the big cities.
In where people can't afford.
(43:07):
They also say where there'sprobably a white population.
Right.
And then they give an example,there was a doctor, she was
a main speaker, SouthernVermont, for example.
Okay.
It's a smaller state and as faras the number of people she was
talking about that her hospitalcan't afford all of that.
Even, it's predominantlyeven white.
(43:28):
So you have to be very careful.
These are thingsthey're talking about.
You have to be verycareful because there's
going to be the big halvesand the big knot halves.
Okay?
So it's not just even thetools, it's also who has
access to what and whatit is that they're doing.
So all these thingsare coming in into the
conversations, right?
(43:50):
Just to say that, that isa very good question about
the limitations and howcan we put some guardrails,
so to say, around what itis that we are using or
how we are using even AI.
Galen Low (44:02):
It's a hugely good point about health equity
because as you were sayingthat, I'm like, oh yeah,
keeping up with the pace ofAI technological progress.
Is not necessarily going togenerate the best outcome
because A, it's experimental.
B the thing you said aboutnot every clinician can
just create their own GPTand then we have everyone
like have their own thing.
There's like, standardizationis required because these
(44:24):
records are being handedbetween organizations.
Its sensitive information.
And I'm thinking back tomy healthcare exposure that
my clients, they used tocomplain because they had to
use Internet Explorer six.
When Internet Explorer eightwas out because they had built
clinical systems on InternetExplorer six, and they're
like, why can't we just,you know, upgrade them all?
And you've just kindof really shone a light
on like, here's why.
(44:45):
Because that took a lot of timeto build these clinical systems
and get all the stakeholdersinvolved and make the right
decisions and standardize acrossthe board and roll these out.
And then, yeah, justbecause there's now a
new browser, doesn't.
Mean that it's gonna be easyto just make all of those
systems just like upgrade.
It's not like we you know, asindividuals just download a
(45:05):
new browser, but this is not anindividual, this is a system.
And I think that's such ahuge consideration about
like why it's different, whyit's slower, but also why
it's urgent in its own way.
Rachel M. Keyser (45:16):
Exactly.
Galen Low (45:17):
This has been lovely.
I thought maybe I'd leave withone question because I know
that you're very passionateabout paying it forward and
helping the next generation ofproject leaders find their path.
What advice would you giveto someone who is making the
transition into healthcareas a project manager or
even just as a technicalprofessional today in 2025?
Rachel M. Keyser (45:35):
That's a good question and thank you so much.
Yes, I'm verypassionate about that.
I think, first of all, pleasedo know that when all of us as
humans, you know, when we havedifferent stages of our lives,
so we get to some stages andyou feel, you know, I've really
done a lot, this industry hasgiven me a lot and that kind
(45:56):
of thing, and you want to passit on to the next generation.
And it's not like, you know,I'm old or anything, but.
I've gotten a lot out of this.
You know, I was doingconsulting and all of that.
I traveled a lot all over.
In fact, I had to puta stop to my travel
'cause it was too much.
But I've been grateful for that.
And so for anyone whowants to really transition,
(46:19):
the first thing I wouldsay to be successful is,
sincerely, this is coming.
From you wantingto be successful.
I was lucky that I startedin this industry and I've
stayed because I see thereis just so much opportunity
in it, and so that's whyI am trying to pull people
that, Hey, listen, look here.
(46:40):
Look here.
Okay, the opportunities here,but to get into it, the first
thing, if you haven't beenexposed to healthcare workflows,
really to be successful, youneed to understand how it works.
That is really whyI talk about that.
Anyone can do it.
Please don't thinkthat we are special.
Anything like that.
(47:00):
No one is special.
Anyone can do it.
I was just lucky.
I would look overme at the big tech.
I'm like, oh, I wishI would go there.
Maybe, I don't know.
Get the big box and all of that.
Well, now it's theother way around, right?
It's like anyone cando it, but knowing some
part of the workflow ofhealthcare is very helpful.
That really is what is goingto help you to be successful.
(47:23):
I call it in your first 30 to90 days, because guess what?
You're not startingfrom zero, you're not
starting from scratch.
You don't have to goget a four year degree.
Please don't get it.
Okay.
If you're intending, you canreally do an upskill course or
an upskill coaching or trainingor something like that, and then
(47:44):
you integrate your skillsets,right, with what you already
have and you will be successful.
Yes.
Will you need someone tomaybe help you along the way?
Have some questions?
Absolutely.
Listen, the thing with projectmanagement, even when you
have so many years of it,Galen, wouldn't you agree?
Is that the beauty of it?
(48:04):
I think that makes it sointeresting is there's
always something new.
Kid you in let field, evenwhen you're not looking,
you're like, what was that?
What happened?
So I'm serious.
I've worked in this industryfor a long time, but there's
always something new you'venever seen that comes out of
the blue and that kind of thing.
And also the other thingis that there are many
(48:24):
aspects of healthcare.
So it's really a wide field,you know, that you can get into.
It's not just the hospitals,it's not just the doctors.
There's supply chain, there'spharma, there's biotech, or
things like life sciences.
And even now a big industrywith AI innovation.
Many companies, and thoseare actually the ones that
(48:45):
I mostly, in fact, showingpeople 'cause that is where
your skillset are being needed.
Okay.
And I'm here.
I have a, actuallya free community.
I welcome anyone whowould like to join.
I give you a layout of the landas I call it, and then also
the foundations of healthcare.
Before you do the deep dive.
So if you wannaexplore it, why not?
(49:07):
You know, you can come join.
But really the bottom lineis that anyone can do it
and anyone can join thatindustry of healthcare.
Galen Low (49:15):
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
You mentioned along the way,your community, you mentioned
that you're posting jobs onLinkedIn for my listeners,
where can folks learn moreabout you and Project Elevation
Partners and your community?
Rachel M. Keyser (49:25):
Sure.
Thank you.
You can find me onLinkedIn as Rachel.
It'll be rachelmkeyser.
Just make sure youhave the dash there.
I'll be there.
And also the community iscalled Pivot to Healthcare,
sorry, to Health Tech, soit's PTHT, Pivot to Health
Tech and also you'll find meprojectelevationpartners.com.
(49:48):
It's also there and you canfind me on Twitter under my
name or also Project Elevationand also where, Twitter, IG,
but mostly I use LinkedIn.
Galen Low (50:00):
Very cool.
I'll include all thoselinks in the show notes for
folks listening or watching.
And Rachel, thank youso much for spending
the time with me today.
Love this conversation.
Lovely insights, and honestly,this has been so much fun.
Rachel M. Keyser (50:11):
Thank you.
You too.
And thanks for having me.
This was fun.
And I'm glad that, you know,we shared with the community.
Galen Low (50:18):
That's it for today's episode of The Digital
Project Manager Podcast.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, make sure
to subscribe whereveryou're listening.
And if you want even moretactical insights, case studies
and playbooks, head on over tothedigitalprojectmanager.com.
Until next time,thanks for listening.
Are there more job opportunities for technical
project professionalsin healthcare than in
tech or government IT?
And if so, why aren't moreproject professionals pivoting
from some of these affectedindustries into healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (00:12):
Absolutely.
Many people may notknow actually that these
opportunities are here.
But here's the thing,really, you don't have
to start from scratch.
That's the beauty of it.
You have so many transferableskill sets, all you have
to do is really upskill orjust reskill, especially
on the healthcare sidebecause it's your skill in
tech that is being needed.
Galen Low (00:33):
What do digital project professionals
transitioning from otherfields need to know and
understand about the importanceof pace in healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (00:41):
You have to be very careful because
you are going to be dinged.
You're going to be fined bigdollars, like in millions if
any patient data gets out.
As much as we are trying to alsogo with the pace of AI, we have
to really slow down and justmake sure that the safety of the
data is there, the privacy isthere, the governance is there.
Galen Low (01:06):
What advice would you give to someone who is
making the transition intohealthcare as a project
manager today in 2025?
Rachel M. Keyser (01:12):
The first thing, if you haven't been
exposed to healthcare workflows,really to be successful,
you need to...
Galen Low (01:24):
Welcome to The Digital Project Manager
podcast — the show thathelps delivery leaders work
smarter, deliver faster, andlead better in the age of AI.
I'm Galen, and every week wedive into real world strategies,
new tools, proven frameworks,and the occasional war story
from the project front lines.
Whether you're steeringmassive transformation
projects, wrangling AIworkflows, or just trying to
(01:44):
keep the chaos under control,you're in the right place.
Let's get into it.
Okay, today we're talkingabout why the healthcare sector
needs talent from big tech andother non-medical sectors to
truly thrive, and how projectprofessionals can pivot into
the world of AI-forward digitalhealthcare transformation.
My guest today is RachelKeyser, a healthcare and IT
(02:05):
program management consultant,and the founder and CEO of
Project Elevation Partners.
Rachel is a project andprogram management trainer,
coach, and consultant inthe digital healthcare space
focusing on integrating AIworkflows for better outcomes.
She is also a keynote speakerand an advocate for the safe use
of AI in the healthcare space.
Rachel, thanks for beingwith me here today.
Rachel M. Keyser (02:26):
Thank you for having me,
Galen, on the podcast.
Galen Low (02:29):
It's such an honor.
I've loved ourconversation so far.
So like for our listeners,Rachel and I, we've been
nerding out about all thingshealthcare AI, and project
management for a few weeks now.
And actually it was tough forus to like isolate a topic
that we can kind of dig into.
And so for that reasonI kind of hope that we
zig and zag a little bit.
Here's the roadmap though, thatI've sketched out for us today.
(02:51):
To start us off, I wanted toget one big burning question
out of the way that likeuncomfortable but pressing
question that everyonewants to know the answer to.
But then I'd like tozoom out from that and
talk about three things.
Firstly, I want us to talkabout how the pace of change
is different in healthcare whencompared with other industries,
and why that's important.
Then I'd like to explore somepractical examples of how AI
(03:11):
can support healthcare projects.
And lastly, I thought maybewe could talk about just how
project professionals andtech specialists who have
no background in healthcarecan start their career
transition into the healthcarespace, if that's something
they're interested in.
Rachel M. Ke (03:24):
That sounds great.
Let's get it.
Galen Low (03:27):
Let me start with my one hot question.
Recently we've seen a lotof project professionals
who've been affected bymass layoffs in big tech.
And at the time of recording,we're also a couple weeks into
a US government shutdown whereit's possible that many public
sector employees will have theroles eliminated, and yet it
seems like technical projectleadership roles are actually
in demand in healthcare.
So here's my hot question.
(03:49):
Are there more job opportunitiesfor technical project
professionals in healthcarethan in tech or government IT?
And if so, why aren't moreproject professionals pivoting
from some of these affectedindustries into healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (04:00):
Absolutely.
Thanks, Galen.
First of all, I wanna say thatfor anyone who really is going
through these rifs in differentareas, both in big tech, in
government, you know, my heartis out to you because it's
not easy out there as we know.
And then to answer yourquestion, absolutely.
This is happening at the sametime, as you say, many people
(04:22):
may not know actually thatthese opportunities are here.
Additionally, like anyoneelse who may be seeking a
job, they may be thinking, oh,I don't have this skillset.
They, no one will actuallyaccept me in terms of, you know,
the job that they apply for.
But here's the thing,really, you don't have
to start from scratch.
(04:43):
That's the beauty of it.
You have so manytransferable skill sets.
And so all you have to do isreally upskill or just reskill
for some of the different skillsthat are being sought after,
especially on the healthcareside because it's your skill
in tech that is being needed.
Okay?
And then also for thepeople, first of all, that
(05:06):
either are already projectmanagers or program managers.
All you have to do is land thehealthcare workflow part of it.
And honestly you are inthe running for, you know,
applying for this job.
So the first thing why maybethey're not is they don't know.
Okay?
They don't know that theseskillset are being sought after.
(05:26):
And this one thingactually, I'm talking
about a lot on my LinkedIn.
I give examples of the skillsetsbeing sold after I give
examples of the jobs I post.
You know, what thelinks are to those jobs.
Okay?
And then I tell them, allyou have to do guys, is
I'll give you an example.
Is that okay?
Galen Low (05:45):
Yeah.
I, I was gonna askyou for an example.
That'd be great.
Rachel M. Keyser (05:47):
Yeah.
A good example is I posteda job yesterday where they
want TypeScript, they wantNode, they want Python or
you know, JS Node, is it?
Galen Low (05:59):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Node.js.
Yeah.
Rachel M. Keyser (06:00):
That's some other technical few skills.
Something like that.
And then they say a bonusis if you know this part of
healthcare, meaning it's veryhelpful for you to know that
part, at least to give youa chance to get that job.
So all you have to do isupskill for that, and really
you are in the running.
Galen Low (06:19):
What about titles because I think some people,
it's funny you mentioned that,you know the sort of like
nice to have some generalbackground in healthcare, but
not necessarily a requirement.
I think what you're saying isthat actually what healthcare
is looking for in some of thesemore technical roles, like they
want the talent from big tech.
They want the talent.
Yes.
Who is like deep into thetechnology and coders and the
(06:40):
people who are AI forward.
But I find sometimes peoplewon't even like click on the
posting like the actual titlesometimes because the job title
actually isn't or doesn't soundlike a role that they could do.
Do you find that thetitling is a little bit
different in healthcare?
Are there some inflectionsor nuances that maybe give
people that pause or hesitationto be like, yeah, I don't
(07:01):
think I could do that job.
It's got like oncology next toit, so I don't think that's me.
Rachel M. Keyser (07:06):
That's a very good point actually,
Galen, because so theymentioned especially the
titles in addition to oncology.
It could be, forexample, front end.
When I say front end,on the front end of,
because there's also frontend engineering, right?
It could be the frontend of healthcare.
And then there's also theback end of healthcare,
which is also the back endof, you know, engineering.
(07:29):
Right?
So you find that.
The front end and the backendin the healthcare speak might be
the exact names they're using.
Could be the registrationbackend has to do with
billing and all the differentactivities that happen there.
Right?
Or even the what revenue cycle.
So this means that reallywhat you're saying, they
(07:52):
may say, okay, this doesn'tapply to me because of this.
But really all that you wouldneed to do is to learn that
part of, you know, the overallworkflow of healthcare,
and then you integrateit with your skillset.
That's all they want.
That's really all they want.
Right.
So I argue that as Galen issaying, is that really click on
(08:16):
these jobs and look at the exactskillset because they spell
them out, what it is they need.
And then from there is wherereally you can determine if
this is something you canlook into or not look into.
But again, with the number ofpeople out there with the job,
how the job market is, I reallyurge you to be open-minded.
(08:37):
You have to be able, inthis market, you have to
be able to pivot, you know?
Galen Low (08:42):
I agree.
It's funny 'cause I wantedto come back to something you
said where you're talking aboutthe front end of healthcare,
the back end of healthcare,billing, administration.
I think a lot of folks, at leastin my circle, they think of
healthcare project management.
They think likemed tech devices.
They think of, you know,like big process initiative
changes like, or process changeinitiatives rather, you know,
(09:03):
they're thinking of thingsthat are kinda like a, what
would the project be behindwhatever Grey's Anatomy, that's
the picture in their head.
You mentioned thesethings, right?
Right.
Like billing, administration,fundamentally the system,
you know, operates in asimilar way to a business.
And you know, you mentioneda few things like how can
someone go about gettingthat general knowledge of how
the healthcare system works?
(09:24):
Is there a course?
Are there books?
Should we watchGrey's Anatomy more?
Rachel M. Keyser (09:29):
I love it.
You know, listen,watching Grey's Anatomy
doesn't hurt, right?
Unless you have some fun.
But when we go into theactual nitty gritty of things,
you have to upskill a bit.
So where can one upskillthe different outlets?
Right?
There are people like me,actually, professionals
(09:51):
who have been in thisindustry over 20 years.
Ah, i'm not aging myself.
Anyway, but over 20 yearsthat have worked in this
industry from beginning to end.
So we know we have a verygood handle on how things
are, what is needed.
And then they're also onlinewhere they could be talking,
for example, YouTube.
(10:12):
They could be talking aboutsome aspects of what it
is, you know, the differentsectors or the different
parts of those workflows.
And it could also beperhaps like Coursera.
I've looked there thoughI haven't seen anything.
But there could be thingslike that, Coursera or
Udemy, things like that.
You know, those kinds ofresources now you just have
(10:34):
to know where it is thatyou need to get what it is.
If you want the whole thing andyou want someone to walk you
through it, like handholding,give you a project, someone
like what I provide is helpful.
If you want just the highlightsand all of that, you can
also find them, you know,in the Udemy or Coursera,
that kind of, you know,resources or even on YouTube.
(10:56):
Yeah, free.
Just know that it dependson what it is you want.
Yes, you can find free.
There's nothing bad aboutit, it's just that are you
going to get everythingthat you need to know?
In other words, do you havesomeone that you're going
to work with that willhelp you, give you more
than what is being offered.
Galen Low (11:15):
That pairing, I like.
Rachel M. Keyser (11:16):
But otherwise the resources are there.
Galen Low (11:18):
Yeah, it makes sense because you know,
I'm thinking, I'm like,okay, I go onto YouTube.
I search, whatever how the UShealthcare system works, I'm
gonna get a very high levelgeneral animated, explain it to
me like I'm five type of video,but how do I plug that into how,
what my job would look like asa program or project leader.
And I like that pairing withsomebody who's just been doing
(11:39):
it for over a decade, knows thesystem in and out, like a coach
or a mentor who can actuallygive you more specific advice.
Especially if you're looking ata role and you're like, I don't
even know what I'd need to know.
In order to sort of bequalified for this role or
like level up to this role.
And I think it's reallyinteresting that a lot of the
healthcare professionals thatI've been talking to recently
(12:00):
have been in the industry.
They are long tenured.
You know, they'repassionate, they stay in
the industry a long time.
They've seen it all.
And those are the peoplethat you know you'd want
to have in your corner tokind of help you understand.
Rachel M. Keyser (12:13):
Exactly.
And Galen, to add onto thatalso, like you said, someone
who will handhold you right.
Like I'm being upfront.
I'm not just saying becauseI want you to come to me.
Those resources are out there.
It is just that youare not going to get
the deep detail right.
Again, if you want just ahigh level, you can get it,
(12:34):
but there are really manynuances to it, and also that.
There's so many.
I think we know all of us.
Healthcare is a bitcomplex out there.
It is complex.
Let me just say, I'm beingconservative about a bit.
It is complex.
So when I say that is that,you know, you're going to
find bits and pieces andthat could be okay if it,
(12:55):
you know exactly where to go.
The thing though, if you lookat it, I mean, it doesn't
even in this case, haveto be healthcare, right?
It could be any industry.
If you want to find, niceworkflow, someone who will
show you this is how itworks because of this.
And the thing also withhealthcare, it's very
dependent on the processbefore that, right?
So you know how in tech youmust know that Gale, they say
(13:19):
garbage in, garbage out, right?
That's the same thing.
Like if you start with baddata or things like that's
what you get on the backend,right down the workflow.
Should we say downstream, right?
Meaning that.
You'll get someone who showsyou really handhold you show
you these are the areas youcan do, or this particular
(13:40):
job like we talked about.
This is where they wantyou to, what to work.
However, you also need to knowthis kind of information, right?
To be successful.
The other thing alsois that when you have a
project manager, trust me,I'm PMP certified, right?
But even.
For you or anyone else who hasdone the PMP, the information
(14:03):
is so much that once you getcertified, you're like, oh
my God, okay, what do I use?
What do I not use?
You know what I mean?
So someone have been in thetrenches, they know what exactly
applies in the real world.
They have a framework, andthat framework makes your
life much easier, right,than just wondering, oh,
okay, it's all of this.
(14:23):
Then what do I do with it?
Just to also agree with youthat it's good really to have
someone at least who handholdyou or at least give you what it
is that you need to work with.
Galen Low (14:35):
Love that.
I had never thought of it thatway until you said it, but Yeah.
You know, we always the PMP examgets a lot of flack because it's
like, oh, okay, and then teachus what we do in the real world.
But actually in terms oflearning a bunch of stuff
that is relatively foreign.
Then having to pick and choosewhat to use, that is a skill
in and of itself, and I couldsee that being applicable if
(14:56):
you're just trying to likedeepen your knowledge of
workflow in the healthcaresystem, you know, one sliver
of the healthcare system, yeah,you're gonna have to drink from
the fire hose and then decide,you know, what little drops
of water exactly to choose.
I wonder if we couldzoom out a little bit.
Your background is in digitalhealthcare, and you've been
working closely with cliniciansand I imagine chief medical
(15:18):
officers and maybe regulatorsand IT teams, and you have
to somehow sort of findthat balance between them.
And one of the thingsthat you said to me in our
first conversation was thatwhen it comes to AI and
healthcare, we need to go slow.
In other words, digitalhealthcare seems to happen
slowly compared with techstartups and big tech
agencies and consultancy life.
(15:38):
What do digital projectprofessionals transitioning from
other fields need to know andunderstand about the importance
of pace in healthcare?
Rachel M. Keyser (15:47):
So one of the things, Galen, as you
know yesterday, in fact, iswhen we're supposed to have
this podcast recorded, Itold you that I was coming
from a conference, right?
It had to do with AI, right?
So I bring that becauseit was a major thing that
came up also in there.
So the difference is that.
(16:07):
In healthcare, like let's saymany of the very regulated
industries, which is likehealthcare and maybe finance, is
that you have to be very carefulbecause you are going to be
dinged, you're going to be fine.
Big dollars, like in millionsif any patient data gets out.
So organizations haveto be very careful.
(16:29):
And as you know right now,before you create that nice
cocoon of, you know, your ownlittle ecosystem of AI, right?
You have to really make surethat nothing is going out.
Right.
With that said, whyit's a bit slow.
In fact, those are sayingwhere one of the doctors
was a speaker say that youhave to go fast but slow.
(16:50):
And what it means is that at thesame time, as much as we were
trying to also go with a paceof AI, we have to really slow
down and just make sure thatthe safety of the data is there.
The privacy is there,the governance is there.
And so in healthcare, likeany other regulated system,
(17:13):
these are things that have tofirst be put in place before
you even think of studyinga project, for example,
of where you're going toimplement or integrate your AI.
What is the governance?
How do we make sure thatthe people who are using
the AI and not actuallytaking things outside of
the system and using patientdata or anything like that?
(17:35):
We call it PHI, whichis you know exactly the
privacy of the patient data.
So that is a difference.
For example, this is justto give a comparison.
Let's say Google, one of thebig tech companies, the data
that's usually used, right,every day that we use it.
I'm not saying they'renot taking caution.
(17:56):
They probably are,but not really.
They don't have to because it'sthe everyday use that we use
it for, unlike in healthcare.
Even you, anyone, right?
We don't want our data outthere or being, getting access.
So that is the reasonthat you have to fast.
Do, for example, theinfrastructure of, let's say
(18:16):
the networks, the infrastructureof the hardware and all of
those things, just to makesure that you have, at least
within your environment,that is not gonna go out.
So that's the thing that youhave to be able to apply the
AI, but then you have to slowdown to ensure that everything
you're doing okay doesn'tbring problems down the road.
(18:38):
So that's the reason for that.
Galen Low (18:40):
I mean, it's a really good point when, you
know even outside of healthcare,we're like, yeah, you could
probably get fined for that.
You know, all this likesensitive information.
Yes, I know.
We're all like, like, oh,millions of dollars and you
know, obviously those rulesare in place for a good reason.
This is, you know,sensitive information.
I wouldn't want mypersonal health data
flying around everywhere.
I love that image that youplanted in my head of like
(19:03):
this cocoon of AI tools.
It's kind of this lovely sortof like picture in my head.
But you're right.
It's like you can't justwalk into healthcare and
have your own tools and theagents that you've built
and just plug them in.
And go, because all thatprivacy, the sensitivity
of the information meansthat the privacy is only
strong as the weakest link.
And if you haven't builtthose things, you can't go
(19:23):
download that free tool andjust like start using it or
use your personal ChatGPTaccount to plug in a data set
that involves patient records.
There are these thingsthat need to be in place.
And it's funny what you saidabout the fast and slow.
Actually someone on a differentepisode, they used that turn
of phrase, smooth is slow.
Rachel M. Keyser (19:43):
Yes.
Galen Low (19:44):
And slow is fast.
I've probably butchered that.
I maybe butchered that.
Rachel M. Keyser (19:50):
You know I've heard of it, Galen.
I think it's actually apparentlya Navy somewhere in the one.
Galen Low (19:55):
Is it?
Okay.
I wasn't sure of the origins.
That makes sense though, right?
Yeah.
Slow is smooth andsmooth is fast.
Rachel M. Keyser (20:00):
I think it's the Navy I had or something like
that, but I've heard of it too.
Even me by the way.
I'm butchering it.
But you said it right?
I think what you said andsmooth is fast, you said?
Yeah, I think that'sexactly how they say it.
Yeah.
Galen Low (20:16):
To put my Canadian analogy on it, you kind of
need to like Zamboni, right?
You Zamboni is slow, butit makes the ice smooth and
that it primes everything.
The game can go ahead and youwon't hit as many of these
roadblocks, dips and divotsin the ice that trip you up.
It's interesting becausethe urgency is still there.
I think there's a lot of peoplewho might just assume it's
(20:38):
gonna be bureaucratic and likeboring by the sounds of it.
It's actually exciting,but you have to be careful.
And even just to come back tothe Navy bit, it's like, because
those are people's lives.
And the same istrue in healthcare.
Like these are people'slives, livelihood across
patients and caregiversand clinicians, and we're
(20:58):
dealing with important stuff.
Rachel M. Keyser (20:59):
Yeah, exactly.
And just making sure thatyou have everything you
know, tight as well as.
Also providing thoseabilities of AI for whatever
the institution is, right?
And you as a projectmanager, by the way, that's
the heart that we shouldput on because also we are
guiding these projects, okay?
(21:20):
These are the things thatwe have to be very aware
ourselves and ensure that.
Actually be a partner withwhatever the organization is,
whatever the teams are, becausesometimes may not be, this big
project could start from a pilotor something, but that we are
the ones who are the advocates.
(21:41):
We are the ones who arethe forefront of that.
We are thinking about theseitems as well as working with
our partners, the stakeholders.
Right.
Galen Low (21:49):
I like that viewpoint of like, it's a partnership.
It's not just about gettingthe project done quickly.
It's about getting theoutcomes and the project done.
Right.
In your practice at ProjectElevation Partners, like, have
you worked with folks who'vecome from a bit of a technology
background, a fast-paced, like,almost like startup environment
and moved into healthcare?
And if so, like what was themost jarring thing for them
(22:11):
and how would you advisethem if they kind of started
to find, they're like,wow, this is like tedious.
Rachel M. Keyser (22:17):
I think I've worked with, yes, with
those people, but also itwas a little bit different.
In addition, maybe to startup,it was also where they wanted
to implement things Using agile.
Agile is okay if you areworking from a software
perspective, right?
The only thing that is difficultis when you're doing the
(22:38):
actual builds of the system.
If the software is alreadythere and you're doing the
actual build, not the software,but the build of the system
is the configuration and thatkind of thing, agile will
most probably not work well.
You may have to maybedo a hybrid type thing.
Right?
But waterfall is whatusually works best.
(22:59):
And I'm not saying it's theonly one that's used, I'm just
saying we have to be smart.
To gauge where to use, what typeof format of project management,
what will go best, and thatis maybe the part to answer
your question that some maynot realize that the big tech,
let's say, or startup, dependingon what the startup is.
(23:19):
Also, you may use agileand that kind of format
of project management, butmany times when you come.
To the healthcare side andby those on a big project,
I won't mention who, butit was a big company.
It's also known, butI won't say which one.
The project had to be canceled.
It's sad.
(23:40):
After using all this money.
And we were advising themthat this may not work.
This is a differentset of how things work.
Because it's so interdependentfrom one to the other and
you know, agile is like, youknow, you do the sprint and
then you move on and it, thisjust doesn't work like that.
So that is where thefast, but slow comes in.
(24:01):
You may have, or you maywant the project to go fast.
But it's how you actuallyimplement also or do the build.
That really will make a bigdifference because of the
interdependency, like from onestage of the workflows to the
other, you have to first buildthis out and then do this.
It's like you can't just keepand go to this other one.
(24:22):
Right?
So that's maybe where peoplehave to learn that, okay, we
may want to go fast, but wehave to slow down a little
bit because it has to besequential, almost sequential
all the time because of that.
Galen Low (24:36):
I like the theme that's come back again, right?
This notion of discretionof being able to choose
the right tool, when to usea thing and when not to.
I'm imagining, but I actuallywanted to confirm like part of
the reason for that linearityis because of regulation
and the regulatory bodies.
Yes.
And the likestakeholder ecosystem.
It's not like one person whodecides, yes, this is good.
(24:56):
Good enough for this workflowon, you know, let's move
on to the next thing.
It's actually like it needsto go through a number of
different groups and bodies.
Yeah.
Regulatory bodies, like inorder to make sure it is
compliant for moving on.
Rachel M. (25:11):
Galen you are right.
And it may not be necessarilylike it's every stage
has a regulatory body.
Let's take a hospital 'cause Iwanna use, and, you know, I've
worked in different settingsso we can talk about that.
But let's take ahospital, right.
That workflow that may be withinhealthcare, there's a regulatory
laws and rules and all of thatquality and all of that exists.
(25:35):
For sure.
Those are there, right?
Every stage may not have its ownregulatory, you know, like you
have to start and stop and getapproval, some kind of thing.
The actual approval that youhave to get is from the people
that work and all manage theadministrators that workflow.
This first stage, thenthe next stage, and then
(25:56):
the next, that's whereexactly that happens, right?
And this is really to preventdownstream, like we've
said, 'cause it's so linear,like you said, to prevent
any problems downstream.
Because if you don't do thisright, trust me, downstream
is going to be very bad.
And that's not what you want.
And this is millions ofdollars could be lost.
(26:18):
Could even bankruptan organization if
you don't do it right.
Because also in my experience,because I've been a consultant
for a lot of time, and youcould go to some organizations
and they're like, we don'tknow what the problem is, but
we're not getting our money.
The money is not coming.
Right?
And so you have to goand look at, okay, what
(26:38):
is exactly the problem?
Where is the, you know,whether they call it a
leakage, where is a leakage?
Where's the money leaking to?
Or where is the roadblock?
'cause they don't know.
Right.
And so you find that thosesetups have to be, usually
everyone is in a room literallyworking together because they
(26:58):
know that if you don't haveit right here, it's going to
affect someone down the road.
Right.
And so the approval, yes,the approval are going to
come into that workflowfrom the business side.
'cause you have to workin tandem with them.
They're technical people.
That is where the partnershipreally comes in, actually.
Galen Low (27:17):
That's really interesting.
That's interesting.
I wanted to come back to thatcocoon of AI tools, if you will.
You had recently given atalk about the application
of AI in project management.
I was wondering if you haveany sort of favorite examples,
maybe even of some healthcarespecific use cases that can
help a project professionallearn and stay up to speed with
(27:38):
industry specific considerationslike we're talking about
things like complianceand regulation and ethics.
And even just, you know,inter-agency interdepartmental
workflows, like can, howcan AI help a project
professional here?
Rachel M. Keyser (27:52):
The first thing is from just a pure
project management part ofit, AI helps us really get
some things done much faster.
A big part of it iscreating templates, right?
For example, if you usinga, you have to, let's say,
start from beginning creatingyour chatter templates.
And then also if you havea framework already and
(28:15):
you have certain prompts.
Let me back up a little bit.
The other thing about it isthat it depends how you want
to implement or integrate AIinto your one's processes.
One of the things I wouldrecommend is one, create
specific prompts, forexample, that you found that
work for the organizationor particular projects.
In this case for healthcare,especially if you know which
(28:38):
part of the healthcare workflowmaybe that is going to be,
and if you don't, that's okay.
As we know, you can, you know,when you're creating those
prompt templates, you put ablank and then someone fills it
in with whatever applies, right?
Those kinds of things.
The second part is thatdepending on what part
of the workflow you'regoing to work in, meaning
(28:58):
healthcare, workflow.
If you ask it that, Hey,this is for example, the
project I'm working on.
We're going to be doing thisand I need you to show me,
for example, what are thedifferent areas that I can
make sure that we are workingor implementing a certain way?
You know, you can definethat way or you can ask for
(29:20):
it to help you with that.
That it'll help youto create what those.
Let's say risks in this caseor mitigations would be, or
particular items that youhave to look and make sure
that they're in place, right?
You as a project manager,and then also, like I
talked about the framework.
There's a framework I useand that if you implement
(29:43):
that or ask it from aperspective that you do help
outline those items for you.
Let's say you're creatingyour project team worksheet.
You're creating your riskmitigation worksheet.
Of course, this applies towhatever specific area you are
applying to, because I mean,generally as a project manager,
those are things you'll ask.
(30:03):
But from a healthcareperspective, it's going
to give you different.
Should I say responses?
Depending on what it is you'reworking, right, and so you find
that it's going to guide you.
Also be your co-pilotin that regard.
And if you're someone new, likewithin healthcare, definitely
sometimes you may not knowparticular areas to ask.
(30:25):
But if you get, like I talkedabout earlier, that upskill,
you get to know at least what isit that I can ask specifically?
Because as you know, right, wemay have the tools, but if you
don't ask the right questions,you don't get the right answers.
Right?
Galen Low (30:38):
Absolutely.
Rachel M. Keyser (30:39):
Yeah.
So that's how we use it.
Galen Low (30:41):
I think it's like a good tie in as well to something
we were talking about earlierabout getting into a career
in healthcare as a productmanager, program manager, or
some project based capacity.
Even just that you don'tknow what you don't know.
And sometimes when you saylike, risk management, what
could go wrong or Right.
I guess within a type ofproject in this workflow,
(31:02):
within the healthcare systemis gonna give you a whole
bunch of different risks then.
Exactly.
If you just said, Hey,I'm building software for
a team of administrators.
I'm imagining, and Ilove using generative AI
for risk identification.
And sometimes Yeah, with thewrong prompts, you're just
gonna get generic things.
Right?
Rachel M. Keyser (31:21):
Exactly.
Yeah.
Or those thatdon't apply, right?
Galen Low (31:25):
Yes.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It won't be relevant andwon't be specific enough.
I really do like that.
Something that you and I talkedabout when we last chatted.
Two sides of the spectrum.
One was like HIPAA and thenthe other one was SOC 2, right.
Like in terms of you knowsort of like the security
data security side of things.
All of these are kind of likebig topics and I'm that person
(31:45):
and I've done a little bitof work in healthcare, not
directly, but via agencies.
Rachel M. Keyser (31:49):
I remember you, you shared that with me.
Galen Low (31:51):
Yeah.
And it's like, it's closeto my heart, but if I went
into a job description, orif somebody gave me a project
that was like, yes, but pleasemake sure that everything
you do is HIPAA compliant.
Is SOC 2 compliant?
I'd be like, sorry, what?
Like I don't knowit off by heart.
I don't know these, you know,I don't know these protocols,
these systems, the rules andthe compliance well enough.
(32:11):
And I might just be like,sorry, that's somebody else.
Like, that's not me.
But then I like that what yousaid about like a copilot.
Could AI be a bit of a copilotfor navigating regulation
and compliance and some ofthese sets of very noble,
but very complicated rules.
Rachel M. Keyser (32:31):
Exactly.
I like how you say that.
That is so true, Galen because,listen, even I've worked in
healthcare, what, 20 years.
Have you listened recently?
And this is not being political.
I mean, there's so manyrules that come out.
You can't keep up.
Right.
Galen Low (32:48):
Can't keep up.
Yeah, exactly.
Rachel M. Keyser (32:49):
I've used actually AI to help me.
Okay.
Really to go onto the CMSis you know, the Centers
for Medicaid Services.
It's the, essentiallythe healthcare governing
body, federal governingbody of the us.
It's called CMS.
So if anyone hears me sayingthat, that's what that
means, it's the federalgovernment healthcare system.
(33:11):
Literally to ask, okay,what is the rule for this?
Like, I've doneprojects in home care.
By the way, one of the biggestEHR is from Canada Point
Click care, just so you know.
Yeah.
And you have to find out whatthe rules are because the
rules change, the reimbursementchange, and then you have to
ensure that you are trackingthese types of metrics
(33:32):
and this kind of thing.
So as a project manager, forexample, you have to ensure
that, okay, you're very aware.
It's top of mind that whatare these new rules about?
Right?
And it's absolutely veryhelpful because it'll pull
that, especially if you ask,give, show me the references.
The good thing now it'simproved as you know.
(33:52):
Many times, you don'thave to ask it, but I
would put that there.
Show me the references ofwhere you're getting this from,
just to make sure, because youknow AI also is not a hundred
percent right sometimes.
Okay.
It'll show you exactlywhere those are, so
absolutely using it as aco-pilot is very helpful.
Co-pilot, co strategist, youjust have to know sometimes
(34:14):
where it is or what it is thatyou need, like I said, and ask
the right questions in orderto get the right answers.
Or the information that pertainsto what it is that you're doing.
Galen Low (34:25):
That's such a good call out about the
citations because you know,we always talk about being
the smart human in the loop.
Right.
Being the human in the AI loop.
Exactly.
That's exactly whereit will matter.
Because to your point, if itwere to maybe get it wrong,
not saying that it would,but it could get it wrong.
And coming back to thepoint you said earlier, that
could cost your organizationmillions of dollars, if it
(34:45):
was the wrong thing, checkthe citation, double check.
It still cuts down the time,and I think the biggest point
that you made there was,you know, you're someone
who's done two decadesin the healthcare system.
It's too much for anyprofessional who's even that
experienced or that closeto it to know everything.
And I think a lot of the timefrom the outside we're like, oh,
I'd have to like memorize CMS,I should go and like learn it.
(35:08):
Like I'm a, like a lawyer.
I have to like have allof the laws in my head.
Yeah.
You know, and know whatpart of the code it
was and all that stuff.
But not necessarily.
We have these co-pilotshere and frankly it's
not just a newbie thing.
It's like a lot of medicalprofessionals and folks working
in the healthcare system don'thave it on total recall and
it's changing all the time.
(35:29):
So we kind of needthese tools in place.
I think that's great.
Rachel M. Keyser (35:33):
Galen, I just wanted to go a little bit.
That's a very good point youjust brought up that you don't
really have to know everything.
Frankly the good thing now, whenyou type in AI, now everything
comes, but before, for example,you had to Google or go on the
website itself directly, andyou are searching, okay, where
(35:53):
this rule or this or that,or whatever the regulatory
rule or the regulatory.
Consideration or you know,guardrails or whatever it
is and now is, you know, youjust get all of it at once.
That's a good thing.
But the main thing I wantto point out is what you
just said, that you don'thave to know everything
(36:13):
off the top of your head.
Even as we are looking.
Trust me, even the doctors,even the administrators,
it's hard to keep up.
It's really hard, right.
So everyone is lookingjust to make sure.
As long as you look and youfind out what the information
is and you know these are theparameters under which I have to
work, or do this type of projector this type of thing, and
(36:37):
make sure that we are gettingthis outcome according to what
is needed, then you're good.
It's a tool that weall would use for sure.
Galen Low (36:45):
No, it's funny because like, you
know, the nature of theindustry is fast paced.
There's too much to know.
And I think coming back tothat cocoon of AI tools, right?
If you're coming from abackground where you're
like, okay, well this is sospecialized, we can like build
some apps, we can divide code,some apps, we can, you know,
build some agents or I've gotmy like, set of tools that I
(37:06):
can use, but like not everyhealthcare organization, maybe
any healthcare organization canjust use any tool willy-nilly.
Coming back to what we saidat the beginning is that, you
know, it's like we can't havethese weak links in the chain,
you know, not to take it tooliterally, but sometimes,
you know, we mentioned asa co-pilot, sometimes it
is just Microsoft co-pilot.
I'm imagining because it'sbeen vetted at the enterprise
(37:27):
level, it's, you know, bakedinto some of the systems.
It probably has achievedthat level of compliance.
It's tick that box.
But then does it kind ofrequire a different mindset to
be creative about how to useAI within a system like that?
Whereas you can't just goand use every tool that
just got released and youknow, make a Sora video of
yourself and upload it tosome other tool that you got.
(37:47):
It seems confined in someways, but are there ways
to be resourceful andcreative using the tools
that have been approvedwithin your organization
in the healthcare space?
Rachel M. Keyser (37:56):
So in this case, are you asking about the
project management tools or areyou asking about, let's say,
the healthcare EHR, for example?
The electronichealth record system?
Galen Low (38:09):
Let's do both.
Rachel M. Keyser (38:11):
We do both.
Galen Low (38:11):
Can we do both?
Because I like that idea of, youknow, like we're talking about
the use case of as a projectmanager or project leader.
Yeah.
You might need to have a bitof a co-pilot, but I guess
you raised a good point.
Your project might be to buildsomething that involves EHR,
like medical health records,patient information, and that
will be constrained as wellin terms of what is possible
(38:32):
versus what is allowed.
Rachel M. Keyser (38:34):
Absolutely.
So let me start with that one.
Listen, one of the things thatI, you remember now going back
to the conference part, like Ijust came from one yesterday and
it was really very enlighteningbecause we were getting
really feedback from whatsome of the leaders are doing.
(38:54):
And you find that one ofthem, they are talking
about what they've done.
They've created those copilots.
They realize that, for example,for the doctors, even though
they've added the abilityto create the GPTs, they
can't also just have everyonecreating these things because
it's going to be a mess.
It's going to be what?
(39:15):
So they have had to control it.
Okay.
Meaning they create onethat everyone can use.
And also behind thescenes, they put a prompt
that create the type ofinformation that they need.
And so you find that.
Within the constraints thatthey're actually giving that
power over to the providers,in this case, the clinicians,
(39:39):
but they also have to be verycareful because you just can't
willy nilly give everyone tobe creative because it's going
to be a whole total mess.
The other thing they wassaying because of that.
That it giving themability to create like
a mini page for them.
Okay, let me give an example.
Patient has some history,and forgive me, I'm not
(40:00):
being very health oriented,but I have to, in this case.
A patient who's had manysickness ailments and all
of that, it's a hassleyou can imagine to go
and look at everything.
Okay, what's the medication,the history, what is it?
They have differentprompts that can say,
okay, what's the condition?
The summary, whatis the medication?
(40:20):
The summary, 'causethey have all this whole
long list of things.
They got one maybeyesterday before, you know
you knew you as a doctor.
What?
Maybe you saw them last month ortwo months ago, something Right?
But they got one fromanother provider or doctor
who is not even maybewithin your hospital system.
(40:41):
But now they've made itthat the hospital systems
at least talk to each other.
Meaning if a patient hasgone from one hospital to the
other, okay, you can see, eventhough you don't belong to that
hospital, at least as a doctor,you can see that information.
So all to say that it's a lotof information or data in this
(41:01):
case from a tech perspective,data that you're working with.
And so even though thatthey've provided the AI tools.
They have to restrict it alittle bit because otherwise,
if they give the clinicians allthis access that, oh, create
a GPT that does this, and thencreate another one that does,
(41:22):
it's going to be a total mess.
Right?
So even then, within thatcocoon of the tools that we
are talking about, it's notthat they're limiting per se,
but they're giving the tools,but they have to limit them.
They have to holdback a little bit.
They can't just go full stream.
And also, that was a goodquestion you asked because I
(41:43):
also did ask that, how are yougoing with how fast AI is going?
GPT-5 was released afew months ago, right?
And now just what, last weeksome Oldman talked about how
now the apps are integratedwithin the, like I was asking,
how are you guys even keepingup with all of this stuff?
We, as project managers,those are the things
(42:04):
we have to think about.
So, and that's where thegovernance now comes.
Okay.
Just because okay.
Also, everythingis being released.
They can't just go at that speedof the whole innovation of AI.
They have to hold theback a little bit and also
think about the future.
How is it that they have to be?
So you find that there'sso many stakeholders
(42:26):
that are really involved.
Within this decision makingand therefore creating those
guardrails, those limits,and those kinds of things.
In fact, there's anew, it's called CHAI.
It's an NGO, nonprofitorganization created
exactly for that reasonto put some guardrails
(42:47):
around it because they'reusing it in different ways.
For example, theytalked about equity.
We find that manyof the hospitals.
In fact, they gave examples.
Many of the hospitals, forexample, that I have all
this AI really more in the,you know, in the big cities.
In where people can't afford.
(43:07):
They also say where there'sprobably a white population.
Right.
And then they give an example,there was a doctor, she was
a main speaker, SouthernVermont, for example.
Okay.
It's a smaller state and as faras the number of people she was
talking about that her hospitalcan't afford all of that.
Even, it's predominantlyeven white.
(43:28):
So you have to be very careful.
These are thingsthey're talking about.
You have to be verycareful because there's
going to be the big halvesand the big knot halves.
Okay?
So it's not just even thetools, it's also who has
access to what and whatit is that they're doing.
So all these thingsare coming in into the
conversations, right?
(43:50):
Just to say that, that isa very good question about
the limitations and howcan we put some guardrails,
so to say, around what itis that we are using or
how we are using even AI.
Galen Low (44:02):
It's a hugely good point about health equity
because as you were sayingthat, I'm like, oh yeah,
keeping up with the pace ofAI technological progress.
Is not necessarily going togenerate the best outcome
because A, it's experimental.
B the thing you said aboutnot every clinician can
just create their own GPTand then we have everyone
like have their own thing.
There's like, standardizationis required because these
(44:24):
records are being handedbetween organizations.
Its sensitive information.
And I'm thinking back tomy healthcare exposure that
my clients, they used tocomplain because they had to
use Internet Explorer six.
When Internet Explorer eightwas out because they had built
clinical systems on InternetExplorer six, and they're
like, why can't we just,you know, upgrade them all?
And you've just kindof really shone a light
on like, here's why.
(44:45):
Because that took a lot of timeto build these clinical systems
and get all the stakeholdersinvolved and make the right
decisions and standardize acrossthe board and roll these out.
And then, yeah, justbecause there's now a
new browser, doesn't.
Mean that it's gonna be easyto just make all of those
systems just like upgrade.
It's not like we you know, asindividuals just download a
(45:05):
new browser, but this is not anindividual, this is a system.
And I think that's such ahuge consideration about
like why it's different, whyit's slower, but also why
it's urgent in its own way.
Rachel M. Keyser (45:16):
Exactly.
Galen Low (45:17):
This has been lovely.
I thought maybe I'd leave withone question because I know
that you're very passionateabout paying it forward and
helping the next generation ofproject leaders find their path.
What advice would you giveto someone who is making the
transition into healthcareas a project manager or
even just as a technicalprofessional today in 2025?
Rachel M. Keyser (45:35):
That's a good question and thank you so much.
Yes, I'm verypassionate about that.
I think, first of all, pleasedo know that when all of us as
humans, you know, when we havedifferent stages of our lives,
so we get to some stages andyou feel, you know, I've really
done a lot, this industry hasgiven me a lot and that kind
(45:56):
of thing, and you want to passit on to the next generation.
And it's not like, you know,I'm old or anything, but.
I've gotten a lot out of this.
You know, I was doingconsulting and all of that.
I traveled a lot all over.
In fact, I had to puta stop to my travel
'cause it was too much.
But I've been grateful for that.
And so for anyone whowants to really transition,
(46:19):
the first thing I wouldsay to be successful is,
sincerely, this is coming.
From you wantingto be successful.
I was lucky that I startedin this industry and I've
stayed because I see thereis just so much opportunity
in it, and so that's whyI am trying to pull people
that, Hey, listen, look here.
(46:40):
Look here.
Okay, the opportunities here,but to get into it, the first
thing, if you haven't beenexposed to healthcare workflows,
really to be successful, youneed to understand how it works.
That is really whyI talk about that.
Anyone can do it.
Please don't thinkthat we are special.
Anything like that.
(47:00):
No one is special.
Anyone can do it.
I was just lucky.
I would look overme at the big tech.
I'm like, oh, I wishI would go there.
Maybe, I don't know.
Get the big box and all of that.
Well, now it's theother way around, right?
It's like anyone cando it, but knowing some
part of the workflow ofhealthcare is very helpful.
That really is what is goingto help you to be successful.
(47:23):
I call it in your first 30 to90 days, because guess what?
You're not startingfrom zero, you're not
starting from scratch.
You don't have to goget a four year degree.
Please don't get it.
Okay.
If you're intending, you canreally do an upskill course or
an upskill coaching or trainingor something like that, and then
(47:44):
you integrate your skillsets,right, with what you already
have and you will be successful.
Yes.
Will you need someone tomaybe help you along the way?
Have some questions?
Absolutely.
Listen, the thing with projectmanagement, even when you
have so many years of it,Galen, wouldn't you agree?
Is that the beauty of it?
(48:04):
I think that makes it sointeresting is there's
always something new.
Kid you in let field, evenwhen you're not looking,
you're like, what was that?
What happened?
So I'm serious.
I've worked in this industryfor a long time, but there's
always something new you'venever seen that comes out of
the blue and that kind of thing.
And also the other thingis that there are many
(48:24):
aspects of healthcare.
So it's really a wide field,you know, that you can get into.
It's not just the hospitals,it's not just the doctors.
There's supply chain, there'spharma, there's biotech, or
things like life sciences.
And even now a big industrywith AI innovation.
Many companies, and thoseare actually the ones that
(48:45):
I mostly, in fact, showingpeople 'cause that is where
your skillset are being needed.
Okay.
And I'm here.
I have a, actuallya free community.
I welcome anyone whowould like to join.
I give you a layout of the landas I call it, and then also
the foundations of healthcare.
Before you do the deep dive.
So if you wannaexplore it, why not?
(49:07):
You know, you can come join.
But really the bottom lineis that anyone can do it
and anyone can join thatindustry of healthcare.
Galen Low (49:15):
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
You mentioned along the way,your community, you mentioned
that you're posting jobs onLinkedIn for my listeners,
where can folks learn moreabout you and Project Elevation
Partners and your community?
Rachel M. Keyser (49:25):
Sure.
Thank you.
You can find me onLinkedIn as Rachel.
It'll be rachelmkeyser.
Just make sure youhave the dash there.
I'll be there.
And also the community iscalled Pivot to Healthcare,
sorry, to Health Tech, soit's PTHT, Pivot to Health
Tech and also you'll find meprojectelevationpartners.com.
(49:48):
It's also there and you canfind me on Twitter under my
name or also Project Elevationand also where, Twitter, IG,
but mostly I use LinkedIn.
Galen Low (50:00):
Very cool.
I'll include all thoselinks in the show notes for
folks listening or watching.
And Rachel, thank youso much for spending
the time with me today.
Love this conversation.
Lovely insights, and honestly,this has been so much fun.
Rachel M. Keyser (50:11):
Thank you.
You too.
And thanks for having me.
This was fun.
And I'm glad that, you know,we shared with the community.
Galen Low (50:18):
That's it for today's episode of The Digital
Project Manager Podcast.
If you enjoyed thisconversation, make sure
to subscribe whereveryou're listening.
And if you want even moretactical insights, case studies
and playbooks, head on over tothedigitalprojectmanager.com.
Until next time,thanks for listening.
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