Two medical doctors pull back the curtain on the disturbing truth about our healthcare system in this groundbreaking conversation. Dr. Jenn Simmons, formerly the first fellowship-trained breast surgeon in Philadelphia, and her host share their parallel journeys from conventional medicine to a complete paradigm shift in healing.
After years of surgical training and practice, both doctors independently discovered that much of what they'd been taught was fundamentally flawed. "Most of what I learned was wrong," Dr. Simmons reveals, explaining how her own health crisis forced her to question everything. This awakening led her to functional medicine and a revolutionary approach to breast cancer care that addresses root causes rather than just symptoms.
The conversation exposes how hospitals and doctors profit from keeping patients sick rather than truly healing them. "The only way doctors get paid, the only way hospitals get paid, is if you're sick," they explain, detailing how the system uses fear to trap patients in cycles of harmful treatments. They discuss the alarming rates of overdiagnosis in breast cancer—up to 180,000 women annually receiving unnecessary treatments—and how standard screening practices like mammography may cause more harm than good.
Particularly powerful is their examination of how medical language itself becomes a weapon. The word "cancer" creates such fear that rational decision-making bec
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I'm sitting with, uh, uh,someone that might see the world
like I do, and anyway.
So this is Dr Jen Simmons, andyou know, I left America in 2012
(00:29):
.
And so I and I was focused overhere, so I didn't really know
what was happening.
I didn't even know about youuntil about a year and a half
ago, or two years ago.
I didn't know, I think.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Chris Work introduced
us right.
Yeah, yeah, that was it yearsago.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I didn't know, I
think Chris work introduced us
right, yeah, yeah, that was it.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, but we, we are
definitely soulmates, though,
for sure, somehow somehow, wegot the same download from the
universe.
Right, we did.
And, um, I think that people'ssouls kind of recycle.
And we, we definitely were.
We were studying in the sameplace at some time in history,
for sure, because what we haveimprinted in our brains is like
(01:16):
identical.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
It is, it is.
And the strange thing is isthat once you see it, like we do
, you can't not see it.
And then you, and then I seeother people don't see it, and
I'm like I get really confused.
But anyway, I'm, I'm reallyhappy to have you here and um,
um, I, uh, uh, you know, I meanjust, you know if I who doesn't
(01:40):
know you, but you know, the factis that is that you're, you're
a medical doctor and uh, like Iam.
So you went through the wholeand, by the way, I think MD
stands for mythology doctor, butum, cause I think we really
know them with all the mythsthat called diseases.
But anyway, it's a veryspecific type of training and
it's it's supposed to set yourhead, uh, your, your perspective
(02:02):
, uh, uh, and and and yourparadigm and how you're going to
work with people.
It does all that.
And then you went through allthe training of you know, people
who haven't been throughmedicine have to understand that
after medical school then itbegins, you know.
Then you do residency andfellowships and you know, and so
Dr Dan Simmons was, I guess,the first fellowship-trained
(02:26):
surgeon.
Was it breast surgeon orthoracic surgeon?
Yep.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yep, the first
fellowship-trained breast
surgeon in Philadelphia.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
So not the first
trained woman.
No no no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
I think before I was
trained, for a couple of years
there might have been afellowship at MD Anderson and at
Memorial Sloan Kettering, but Iwas very, very early on in that
process.
My breast disease fellowship itwas actually a cooperative
(03:06):
fellowship between the tophospitals in Philadelphia
because no one had one.
So we were kind of making it upas we went along and there
wasn't an accreditation processyet and we were talking to all
of the other fellowship programsto say let's build this, let's
formalize it, what should weinclude?
(03:27):
What do you think is necessary?
How much time should we spendin the pathology lab?
How much time should we spendin the imaging center?
How much time should we spendin the OR?
Because you know, for most of us, if you're coming into a breast
surgery fellowship, then you'realready a general surgeon.
I mean, you already have fiveyears of surgical experience.
(03:48):
How much more surgicalexperience do you really need?
Or do you really need that atall?
Or do you just doreconstructive surgery?
And so putting all of thesepieces into place and I don't
want to say making it up as yougo along, but asking for what
you need to become educated, andso that's kind of what happened
(04:11):
to me is that I had thisamazing experience where I
learned from the best people inPhiladelphia at all the
different institutions.
So I was doing my pathology inone place and my radiation
oncology in another place, andmy medical oncology in another
place, and my reconstructivesurgery in another place and my
(04:34):
radiology in another place, andI really got a tremendous
education which 20 years later Icompletely abandoned because
most of what I learned was wrong.
You know, I am so glad youbrought that up, because most of
what I learned was wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
You know.
I am so glad you brought thatup because that's what I wanted
to ask you.
I wanted to ask you this so youknow, integrative oncology is.
As I remember, when I was firstdoing this in the early 2000s,
there was that that term didn'texist and you know, and all and
so, and there was only a few ofus and, um, and now I see that
(05:13):
so many people are in the fieldand they're really not qualified
, because to be I mean to be anintegrative oncologist, you have
to know both, both sides, orand it's not I mean all sides,
because there's a lot on theindigenous uh, indigenous
traditional side versus theconventional.
But you've got to know theconventional to know when and
not when and when not to use it.
So that's why I was, you know.
(05:33):
So you and I had similarjourneys in that.
But I wanted to ask you whenyou, whatever you went through
that made you realize that?
I mean, were you changed?
Were you all that?
You've studied for years, youtrained and now I'm going to
leave it Did it?
Did it?
Do you know what it was?
Was there some moment?
Speaker 2 (05:53):
like you said, I'm
out of here, yeah, little bit,
and share a little bit of mypersonal journey, because had I
not been a patient, I would havenever had this perspective.
(06:14):
Enlightenment, you can call itwhatever you want to call it,
but I come to the breast cancerworld very naturally and
organically.
I come from a breast cancerfamily and nearly every woman in
my family had breast cancer.
And growing up I had a firstcousin.
Her name was Linda Creed.
She was a singer-songwriter inthe 1970s and 1980s.
She wrote all the music for theSpinners and the Stylistics.
(06:36):
She was beautiful, brilliant,larger than life, walked into a
room and lit the place up.
The queen of Motown sound inPhiladelphia.
So she wrote 54 hits in all.
And her most famous song was theGreatest Love of All, really,
yes.
So she wrote that song in 1977as the title track to the movie
(07:00):
the Greatest starring MuhammadAli.
But it really received itsacclaim in March of 1986, when
Whitney Houston would releasethat song to the world and at
that time it would spend 14weeks at the top of the charts.
Only my cousin, linda, wouldnever know, because Linda died
of metastatic breast cancer justone month after Whitney
(07:20):
released that song.
I was 16 years old and my herodied and her life and ultimately
her death, gave birth to mylife's purpose and I did the
only thing I knew how to dobecause I never wanted another
woman, another family, anothercommunity to have to suffer the
(07:40):
way that mine suffered.
So I became a doctor, the firstdoctor in my family.
I became a surgeon.
I became the first fellowshiptrained breast surgeon in
Philadelphia and the firstoncoplastic surgeon in
Pennsylvania, and I did thisreally well for a really long
time, long enough for my aunt tobe diagnosed, long enough for
(08:03):
my mother to be diagnosed, andat what was arguably the height
of my career, where I am runningthe surgical department, where
I am running the cancer program,where I'm a wife and a mother
and a stepmother and an athleteand a philanthropist and an
author and all of these things,and over the course of three
(08:30):
days I went from being one ofthe most high-functioning people
you've ever met to I couldn'twalk across the room because I
didn't have the breath in mybody.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
And I have this
intense workup and at the end
I'm sitting in the office of myfriend and colleague and
physician and he tells me that Ineed surgery and chemo
radiation and I'm going to be onlifelong medication.
(09:01):
And despite the fact that Iknew what he was recommending
was standard of care, despitethe fact that I'm running a
cancer program and these arethings that I said all day,
every day to people withouthesitation or reservation, when
these words are coming at you, Iassure you it's different.
(09:25):
And what I couldn't silence wasthe voice in my head telling me
there's something more, go findit Now.
I was a very conventionalphysician.
I was not looking for thesomething else.
(09:46):
I wasn't looking outside of theblinders that they put on us in
medical school, and you and Iboth know that thinking outside
of the box in medical school, inresidency or in practice is not
rewarded.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
The opposite.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Many times you come
up against disciplinary action
for doing that.
You're called a quack, you'restripped of your credibility,
sometimes you're even strippedof your license for not checking
the boxes, for not falling inline, for not diagnosing and
(10:24):
prescribing along their paradigm.
So I, up until this point, hadno reason to believe or know
that there was anything else.
I mean, I went to a veryconventional MD school.
I didn't even know, I had neverheard of a naturopath.
I mean, I didn't even know whatelse existed, I didn't know
(10:45):
what the choices were.
So I kind of go on this journeyand I'm a little blind because
I don't know from anything,right.
And so I decide that I need tolearn certainly more about food,
nutrition, nourishment, becausewe get almost none of that in
(11:08):
the scope of our medicaltraining.
And so here I am sitting in alecture hall and this tall,
lanky guy walks on the stage,big, toothy grin, and he
introduces himself as afunctional medicine physician.
And I'm still cynical, right.
So I said to myself I'm adoctor for 20 years.
(11:30):
There's no such thing as afunctional medicine physician.
What is this quack talkingabout?
And then I remember that I'msick and I'm there for a reason,
and so I check my ego at thedoor and I tune in and thank God
I did, because, as it turns out, this quack is Mark Hyman.
And what Dr Hyman is going tosay to me over the next two
(11:55):
hours is not only going totelescope how I was going to
restore my own health, but itwas also going to dictate how I
was going to provide medicineand healing in the future.
And so I am a quick start.
(12:16):
I get really excited aboutthings.
I'm an early adopter.
That day I enrolled in theInstitute for Functional
Medicine and I spent the nextthree years healing myself and
absorbed in the study offunctional medicine, and at the
end I have my certification.
I'm still practicing as asurgeon.
(12:39):
So one day I have this19-year-old come into my office.
She's there because she has abreast lump and she's wheeled
into my office because her MS.
She has primary progressive MS,which is the more aggressive
(12:59):
form.
Her MS is so bad that she can'twalk the 30 feet from the
elevator to my office, so she'swheeled in by her mother.
Now I had recently met TerryWalls.
Do you know Terry?
Speaker 1 (13:17):
No, I know the name.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
So she is a
Midwestern physician who Sorry,
I do not know she was practicing, I think her specialty is
internal medicine.
She was the residency programdirector and her MS was so
(13:40):
progressive that within twoyears she could no longer
sustain her own body weight andshe was in a zero gravity
wheelchair and the hospital lether go because she couldn't
fulfill her responsibilities asa doctor, as an educator, as
anything, and so she at thattime decided that she needed to
(14:03):
materially change her diet andsee what would happen.
And she did, and she got better.
And in the next 10 months sheactually went from not being
able to hold up her own weightto she's riding her bicycle 20
miles every day, to she's ridingher bicycle 20 miles every day.
(14:26):
And so she wrote this protocoland the hospital brought her
back and said you know, we needto teach people to do this.
And she has since taughtthousands and thousands and
thousands of people to do this,and, while I don't agree with
everything that she does, itworked for her.
So, in any event, I'm veryexcited and giddy as a school
(14:49):
child because I think like, ohmy God, god put this woman in my
office for a reason.
I'm going to be able to helpher with her MS.
I'm going to be able to helpher change her life.
So I'm telling her all aboutTerry Walls and the story and
the book.
And I get about a minute and ahalf in and she puts her hand up
(15:10):
in my face and she says are yougoing to do my biopsy or not?
And it was in that moment that Iwas like, oh yeah, not everyone
wants to help themselves.
Some people just want the pillor the procedure or the knife or
whatever.
Some people don't want to takeresponsibility for their health.
(15:34):
They don't want to be in chargeof that.
They don't think it's their job.
Right, it's the system's job toget them better, to help them,
to heal them, to cure them,whatever you want to call it.
And so I decided on that daythat I didn't want to work with
people who didn't want to helpthemselves and I quit.
Speaker 1 (15:56):
Wow, that's beautiful
.
That's beautiful and that wasit.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
And I also realized
along the way that, by cutting a
tumor out first of all, what Ilearned on that day with Mark
Hyman is that, especially in theworld of cancer, we're
completely focused on the wrongthing.
Right, we're focused on thetumor, but the tumor is not the
problem.
The tumor is the symptom of theproblem, and everyone likes to
(16:22):
believe that the tumor is somelike foreign invader.
The tumor is you.
It's the part of you that'ssaying this isn't working for me
and we need something todrastically change.
And so, if all you do is cutout the tumor, what is stopping
the tumor from coming back?
(16:43):
What is stopping the nextiteration of illness or disease?
Right, you have to change thetrajectory, and I could never do
that as a surgeon.
First of all, as a surgeon,who's paying me to talk to these
people?
Because so much of this, as youknow, is diet and lifestyle and
mindset, right.
(17:05):
And so the hospital's notpaying me to talk to people
about how to improve thesethings, how to change their life
, how to restore health, andactually, as you very well know,
that is not in the interest ofthe hospital.
The only way doctors get paid,the only way hospitals get paid,
(17:25):
is if you're sick.
If you're not sick, they can'thelp you, and so the entire
system is designed so thatyou're sick.
It's designed to get you in thedoor.
From beginning to end it'sdesigned to get you in the door,
and it starts with pushingwomen to give their babies
(17:46):
formula within 24 hours.
Right, it's this crazy notion.
Oh, you're not making enoughmilk yet.
Well, I'm making exactly whatGod meant me to make in this
period of time.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
You know, they
actually start just before that.
I don't know when it happened,but somehow pregnancy became a
disease and so you have to go tothe hospital to have your baby,
and so the baby starts theirlife in a hospital.
They get smacked hey, welcometo planet Earth.
(18:21):
And then they start doing allthis stuff.
They'll have well baby checks,and then at the end you die,
getting swallowed up by machinesin the ICU.
So it's a whole.
It's a whole thing, you'reright.
So we.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
It's a life cycle.
It's a life cycle.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yeah, and that's why
we get insurance, see, and I
don't want insurance becauseinsurance is a ticket into there
.
I a ticket into the house ofwhores, I agree with you a
thousand percent.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
This is the insurance
mentality right, and people say
to me all the time like, whydon't you take insurance?
Well, why would I participatein a system that just wants you
to be sick, right.
And then, once you are sick, itdoesn't behoove them to keep
you alive longer because theyhave to pay for more.
So once you are sick, they wantto be done with you.
(19:10):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
So why would I?
Speaker 2 (19:14):
participate in that
system.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
You know insurance
companies have an actuarial.
You know, like life insurance,you know they kind of know, they
know if you're diagnosed withwhat, any specific condition at
this age, how much money you'regoing to spend before you're
dead.
It's kind of like, and that,and that's what you've got to
fit into.
So could people say, well, whydon't they cover what you do?
Because actually it's a lotcheaper.
(19:37):
That's not the point.
That's not the point.
They want that money becauseactually at the top, same people
own all of it.
So it doesn't matter.
You know it doesn't reallymatter.
You know, because the money youjust need to churn this money
and yes, and there's no bit,there's no business in the world
that dedicates any amount ofenergy and time to decrease the
(19:57):
number of clients they have.
So we're not going to do that.
Right, you're right in medicine.
You know the world of medicineand you know the metaphor I've
come up with, or what came to meactually, because I've realized
that I don't originate mythoughts.
They actually are given to me,and that is the poison apple
(20:19):
tree.
Everybody that eats an applefrom this tree dies.
So you call the tree doctor,they come in, they cut off all
the apples.
Did we solve the problem?
No, next, what is it?
Winter fall, we're going tohave a new crop.
So it wasn't the apple, right?
So unless the apple is, youknow, what we do is integrative,
(20:40):
right?
So do we never do surgery?
No, of course we do.
Do we never do surgery?
No, of course we do.
Do we never do radiation?
Yeah, but when you have to knowwhen to do it, and so there are
times you know you've got yourbowels about to be obstructed,
there's no choice, you got to doit.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
That's exactly right.
There's a time and a place,without question, without
question, and I think what iscompletely lacking in that
conventional medical world,which I pray exists universally
in the integrative medicineworld although I think that
there's a range in that term butthat I like to think that we
(21:20):
see the individual in front ofus and each time I don't have a
reproducible plan, right, Ican't, I don't have a program
that I can offer to everyone,because everyone who is sitting
in front of me is different, andthat's why, you know, people
ask me all the time how did youheal?
(21:41):
How I heal doesn't matter,right, because what got me sick
is different than what got yousick and what I needed is
different than what you need.
But what I want to make sure isthat if you're going to do
those things, like if you'regoing to have surgery, if you're
(22:01):
going to have radiation, thereought to be a real reason why,
and the benefits have to faroutweigh the risks.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
But you won't know
that unless you ask.
And I've noticed that peopledon't ask, like I've had all the
time people in front of mesaying, well, listen, do you
have any data, is there anyproof about what you do?
And I always say I'll tell youin a minute.
I have tons of data.
But let me ask you a question.
Did you ask the doctor at MDAnderson the same question?
No, why?
(22:34):
Because they're sitting inthere but you're asking me and
I'm glad to show you.
But I mean, you got to startasking them because people come
to me and they didn't ask.
You know they, we got to cutthis out, we got to do this, we
got to do this.
And they just say, okay, um, so, and so you got to ask that
question.
Do the risks?
Uh, what, what you know?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
you got to look at
the risks and benefits.
And you do that.
If you're going to buy a newcar, you're going to buy a
newpectomy, then you're going tohave radiation afterwards right
, deal that the surgeons makewith the patients.
And so they come to me afterthey've had surgery wondering if
they need radiation and youknow, or if they should have
(23:33):
radiation.
And I said, well, what did theradiation doctor tell you?
What are the benefits?
And they don't say that, right,and it's because they don't
exist.
So I say to them, when you goto the radiation oncologist, you
(23:56):
have to say I want to know whatare the benefits of me doing
this?
Is it going to save my life?
Is it going to increase thechances that I survive?
Because at the bottom line isall about survival, right, and
if it's not impacting survival,we have to think long and hard
(24:17):
about why we're doing it.
And the data is pouring out nowthat we know that radiation
elective radiation does notincrease survival.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
It doesn't.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
And so what are we
doing?
What are we doing?
And?
We keep doing it and we keepdoing it and these phone calls
that I'm getting and theseconsults that I'm getting are
getting more and more frequentand it's because the information
is getting out there and theradiation oncologists are having
to fight harder to find peopleto treat, because people are
(24:54):
learning that there is no realbenefit to doing it.
Speaker 1 (24:59):
No, in fact there's
the opposite.
I mean that that, of course Imean what I, you know.
In fact there's the opposite.
I mean that that, of course, Imean what I, you know, you know,
I just have this, uh, I've justcome to the conclusion not
never radiate soft tissue forany reason ever.
You know, if you've got a glial, you've got a brain tumor
that's growing quickly, you got,you know, you got to do that.
If you've got something, uh, atumor on your spine, and you
(25:26):
know there are situations whereyou've got to do it, but not
soft tissue.
I had a woman in my office I hadnever done it before but a
cardiac window, I was doing anEKG because she didn't do well,
she had cardiac tamponade.
That's when the fluid aroundthe heart becomes so much do you
(25:49):
call it strength or power thanthe heart beating and so it kind
of stops the heart and they,and that that's a extreme
emergency.
Um, and that happened fromradiation.
She had a pleural effusion, shehad, you know, fluid on her
from the radiation and went.
And you know I it's interesting, jama remember jama came out.
What was it in?
In 2000, whatever, two orsomething, that the medical
(26:09):
profession was a third leadingcause of death and I think if we
really looked at it, it'd bethe first the leading cause,
because when we say this persondied from this cancer, no, they
probably died from the chemo andthe radiation and they didn't
die from it.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Well, you know, that
is a real problem, in that what
the deaths get attributed to isincorrect.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Incorrect.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
And horribly,
horribly misleading.
And what we all need to know isthat if you are treated for
breast cancer, you are two tothree times more likely to die
of heart disease than someonewho is not treated for breast
cancer, and it's because thetreatments for breast cancer
accelerate cardiovasculardisease and cardiomyopathy right
(27:03):
.
So we are actually, in treatingpeople for breast cancer,
decreasing both the quality andthe quantity of their life a lot
of the time.
This is a problem, especiallywhen I mean, I don't know what
the well, I shouldn't say this.
(27:31):
The studies, the large scalestudies that have been done on
breast cancer screening,estimate that we are
over-diagnosing breast cancer 20to 30% of the time.
So I only know the US numbers.
And in 2024, we will havediagnosed 300,000 women with
invasive cancer.
To be clear, I am not talkingabout DCIS, I am not talking
(27:53):
about DCIS.
So a lot of people they're likeoh, yeah, yeah, yeah, simmons
is talking about DCIS in termsof overdiagnosis.
I'm not of overdiagnosis, I'mnot.
I'm talking about invasivecancer.
And we diagnosed 300,000 womenin 2024 with invasive cancer, 20
to 30% of which areoverdiagnosed.
(28:15):
We are talking about 60 to90,000 women treated for breast
cancer unnecessarily,unnecessarily.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You're not talking
about DCIS, because that's going
to give you another I'm not.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
I'm not talking about
DCIS.
Dcis is another 90,000.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yeah, so-.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
Right.
So now we're talking aboutclose to 180,000 women treated
unnecessarily because the womenwho have DCIS are getting the
same treatment.
The women who have DCIS aregetting surgery, they're getting
radiation, they're being put onaromatase inhibitors or
tamoxifen.
(28:57):
They're getting treated as ifthey have breast cancer.
And I had this call with awoman yesterday God bless her.
I mean, she's in tears and Isaid to her I need you to hear
this you do not have breastcancer.
And she's like well, why iseveryone calling it breast
cancer?
Because they want you tobelieve that.
(29:18):
That's what they want you tobelieve, because it suits them
leave because it suits them.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
You know, and, and
this, this is exact, this is I,
I really, I, I'm, I think I'mgonna my within five years, I
will.
My practice will be completelypsycholinguistics, uh, because
linguistic manipulation and andthe power of the word.
In fact I'm, I'm writing a bookright now which is going into
that, but, uh, the power of theword, it's so.
I'm writing a book right nowwhich is going into that, but
the power of the word, it's sopowerful.
And that's why I don't evenlike the word diagnosis.
If someone says I got a lump, Igot to know what it is.
(29:51):
No, you don't.
Don't put a name on it.
Leave it a lump, make it thatthere's something not balanced
and your body's trying to adaptto it and just, you're going to
restore that balance.
Just look at it like that.
Don't put a name.
Many put a name.
It exists.
So if you don't name it, itdoesn't exist.
And that's if you got to thinkabout that for a while.
(30:12):
A child looking at a desk won'tsee all the details, won't see
the magnifying glass, won't seeall that, because it doesn't
have names for it, it's just ablur names.
So the word gives it existenceand the diagnosis is a name, and
you know that when these.
What is this diagnosis?
It's a histological description.
So what Does it tell you?
How you got it and how you'regoing to get rid of it?
(30:33):
No, so what's the value?
There's no value.
The value is that you have theproper nomenclature to go into
the sales algorithm and that'sit.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
That's exactly it.
I mean, this is like one of themain reasons why I wrote this
book, the Smart Woman's Guide toBreast Cancer, so that people
could make an educated decision,so that they could take that
piece of paper and understandwhat it really means.
Right?
Because what happens is thesewords are so charged and these
(31:06):
women are so scared and they'reput on that treadmill going six
miles an hour, right, andthey're just running in the
direction that that they wantthem to go Right, so they're
signing them up for surgerybefore they can even think.
So they're signing them up forsurgery before they can even
(31:28):
think right, or they're signingthem up to get treatment and you
know what that stress responseis like.
I mean the second you flip thatswitch and all that cortisol is
surging through your body.
Your brain can't think anymore,you can't think at all.
And yet you're going to makethis decision that's going to
affect you for the rest of yourlife.
And some of these decisions areso major that they talk women
(31:55):
into getting chemotherapy.
They talk women into doingthese aromatase inhibitors and
these have significant, profound, detrimental effects on people
for the rest of their life.
And this is really what I talkabout the most now is.
I call her the forgotten womanbecause all these women treated
(32:16):
for breast cancer.
They're told that they shouldbe grateful to be alive.
And don't get me wrong, theyare grateful.
But it's hard to feel gratefulwhen you can't think, you can't
sleep, you're anxious, you'rescared, you can't remember your
words, you've gained weight, youlook deformed, you've lost your
(32:39):
sensuality, your joints ache,your bones ache, your skin is
dry, your hair is dry, you haveno libido, sex is unwanted and
painful, you're leaking urine,your relationship is suffering.
It's hard to feel grateful, butthis is how we leave people and
(33:01):
then we forget them.
We forget them.
We say just feel grateful to bealive and it's not life.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
No, it's not Exactly.
Exactly.
Do you find that?
See, a couple of times you'vementioned it, like that woman
that was just recently who youwere saying you don't have, it's
(33:28):
almost impossible to get hernot to know that.
Speaker 2 (33:31):
It's hard.
Speaker 1 (33:32):
Once it's said, it's
like a screw worm that goes into
your heart.
How do?
Speaker 2 (33:36):
you get it out.
I know it's like unringing abell, right, you can't get it
out.
But the thing is, I mean Ireally encourage people to adopt
it as a mantra, right, Like I'mhealthy and well, I don't have
(33:58):
cancer.
I'm healthy and well, I don'thave cancer.
I don't even like them usingcancer in their verbiage, and I
think you and I have talkedabout this before.
I hate all of the verbiagearound cancer.
You got to fight it.
That's the last thing you wantto do.
(34:18):
You don't want to fight.
Your body's fighting hardenough.
Life is hard enough as it is.
We need so much more love.
We need so much more kindness.
We don't want to be at war withanything.
Right, it's war that got youthere in the first place.
It's fighting that got youthere in the first place.
So I think the way that welanguage is so important in all
(34:45):
of this and the story we tellourselves.
But I agree it's very hard tounring that bell.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
Right, which is why
you don't want a diagnosis,
because it doesn't changeanything, it doesn't help in any
way and it's not true anyway.
So, for example, invasiveductal carcinoma.
If you look at what they'resaying, it's in the duct, it
went through the wall and it's acarcinoma because it comes from
(35:13):
a certain part of the embryonicgerm layer.
All right, yeah, ok, and whatelse?
Well, that's it, that's thediagnosis.
That's the diagnosis.
Well, how did I get it and howdo I get rid of it?
Well, anyway, so it doesn'ttell you those two things.
And if it doesn't, it's, youcould have called it a banana,
it doesn't matter what you callit.
So that's what.
But the problem is, they callit the standard of care and I
(35:35):
call it the standard of scare.
They scare you to death, and soI, you know.
So I tell people that if you gotto go in the hospital, do this,
don't listen, don't listen.
And I said, even me, if I had aproblem, as much as I know, I
wouldn't.
I don't want to.
If I hear it, I can't get itout, I can't get it out.
(35:58):
So I don't want to even hear it, and that's why I, you know the
worst thing you can do foryourself.
And you know, what you weretalking about a moment ago is
that when you no longer canthink, it's actually they call
it amygdala hijacking.
And so our fear is in ouramygdala, which is a little part
of our brain, and then ourreasoning is our prefrontal
cortex.
What happens is the amygdala,if it gets fired up so much,
(36:20):
hijacks the ability of theneural pathways to go to the
prefrontal cortex, so you can'tmake critical decisions anymore.
You're stuck in fear.
So the amygdala hijacks.
This is physiologically, theability to make decisions.
This is a real, real thing andthat's why I call it the
standard of scare, and itabsolutely is.
(36:42):
And when you say to someoneyou're absolutely right.
That means you're going to die,because cancer is now synonymous
with death.
That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
I know You're
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
It's interesting
because people ask me about my
story all the time and I alwaysleave that word out and I never
say that word because I don'treally think it applies to me
Right.
So you know, if people ask mewhat I had, I just say I had
thyroid, right, and I don't everuse that language because I no
(37:15):
longer believe in it.
There's an amazing book calledOverdiagnosed by.
I think his name is JillianWelch.
Do you know that book?
Um and the?
(37:38):
The truth is that if you lookfor these cellular changes, what
we describe under a microscope,right, if you look for them,
you're gonna find them, becausethis is part of normal
physiology and we all have theseat all ages and all times.
We all have these.
So if you look, you're going tofind these things.
And we are looking too hard forthese diseases because it's for
(38:01):
the purposes of feeding themedical machine, right.
And so I have completelychanged the way that I feel
about screening and the way thatI go about screening.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
I wanted to ask you
can you tell me, because you're
perfect, perfection, yeah, I'dlike to understand what that is.
Yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
But what it isn't is
in a silo by itself.
So I think that screening isfor healthy women, healthy
people in general, right, thisis for people who have no reason
to believe that they havedisease.
And, as far as breast cancerscreening goes, I think that
(39:00):
everyone should be examiningthemselves, because I think no
one is ever going to know youbetter than you know yourself,
and you're going to know whensomething changes.
And it's only relevant if younotice a change, because chasing
all of these things you knoweveryone talks about, oh well,
that's why survival increases,because we find things so early.
(39:21):
You're finding things thatwould have never, ever, ever
been anything right.
And then you're callingyourself a hero for having found
someone's five millimeter,something that would have never
been anything.
And now this woman had to gothrough breast cancer treatment
and has to wear and has to dealwith that burden for the rest of
(39:44):
her life because you can'tunflip her switch, right.
So who do we help?
It is so amazing to me howhoodwinked these people are.
Like a mammogram saved my life,really, really, it just it
blows me away.
We need to go there, but I'lljust, I'll just finish by saying
(40:08):
that my screening paradigm is.
I use self-press examinationbecause I think it's the only
thing that is meaningful indetermining what you need to
address and what you don't.
I use something called the ARIAtest, and I don't know if
you've heard of this, but it isa test that is done on the tears
(40:29):
and you just put a littlelitmus paper in your eye and it
goes off to the company and theylook for the S100A8 and A9
proteins, and these are proteinsthat are directly associated
with inflammation in the breast,interestingly enough.
So they are seen as a precursoror in the very early stages of
(40:52):
breast cancer.
And so if you have a positiveARIA test, then I have people
get imaging.
So perfection.
Imaging uses the QT scanner andthis uses sound wave technology
transmitted through a water baththat collects 200,000 times
(41:13):
more data points than MRI andcreates a true 3D reconstruction
of the breast without pain,without compression or without
radiation.
So it is 100% safe.
We're not hurting anyone andthough we can see calcifications
, though we can see these smalllesions, we're not calling them
(41:39):
because I don't want to callthem, because it is important to
me that we not alarm people forno reason.
So if I see a mass in thebreast and it has benign
properties.
Then I'm going to tell someoneto come back in six months.
We'll re-image her, we'llmeasure a volume, because this
(42:01):
does have volumetriccapabilities and we can
determine a doubling time.
And we know that things thatare not meaningful have a
doubling time of greater than100 days and things that are
meaningful have a fasterdoubling time.
But even then, you know I wantto keep my initials behind my
(42:24):
name, so I do have to be careful, but that I am still saying to
people this is nothing more thanopportunity.
You have the opportunity ofknowing that your body is trying
to tell you something.
So what are we to learn fromthis message?
(42:47):
What are we to hear from thismessage?
Right, and then we can get towork to figure out.
How do we need to coursecorrect for you?
What is changing here?
What do you have that you don'tneed?
What do you need that you don'thave?
Speaker 1 (43:03):
Perfect, perfect,
yeah, because the question is if
you're going to screensomething, if you're going to
screen yourself in it for any,any, uh, any part of your body,
what are you going to do If youfind something?
That's, that's what you got toknow and that's why, if you go,
if you go into the system is ifthey, if they find something
(43:27):
before you have a chance to evenassimilate it, your schedule
that's exactly right by designand on purpose.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
That is the intention
of the system Get them locked
in before they think twice.
Speaker 1 (43:43):
Exactly Right.
And I'll tell you something Ihave, I don't know, I'm sure you
probably have.
Probably the most horrifyingsurgeries are head and neck
surgeries and gruesome I and Ican't.
They don't.
If they could show you apicture of what you're going to
(44:04):
look like and the fact that youwon't be able to eat.
And if they let you, if you know, what you touched on earlier
was informed consent.
If you're not capable ofthinking, then how that wasn't
informed consent and that shouldbe, I mean we should have
lawyers in there to say you thatwasn't informed consent.
Informed consent means Iunderstand what's happening,
I've weighed the risks andbenefits and I've decided to do
this Right.
(44:25):
But if you haven't been told,if you've been scared you
haven't been, so these I hadthey make it makes me cry when I
you know I've, I've seen peopleget surgery.
So you know, so I have you know, so I get, really I get in
trouble, I get kicked off ofstuff because I can't, I can't
keep it back anymore.
You know, it's to me.
(44:47):
In fact, tiktok knocked me offthe air one day when I used the
word what did I use, the word oh, what's it called?
When you?
Anyway, they didn't, theydidn't like it.
I can't, I can't be honest.
So I'm going to go on X, so Ican be honest, but anyway it's.
And I'm sure, dr Jen, you'vehad the same thing.
(45:09):
You're like you said, you, youcan't believe people do that.
But I can't believe thesedoctors who know they're not
going to help people, they knowthey're going to die.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Yeah, I don't know if
they do, in that I don't think
that they're conscious anymore.
I think that they have been onautopilot since they were
trained and they're doing a lotof things because it's how it
(45:46):
was done and it was how it'salways been done and how it was
taught to me and I don't knowthat they are thinking and most
people don't.
Most people don't have theopportunity in their career to
take off the blinders, don'thave the reason or the
(46:16):
motivation or the impetus tolook outside and think about
what they're doing and why.
Like, I know that I can tellyou I never really asked for the
data on mammograms, right, likehere, I am trained as a surgeon
and a breast surgeon and afellowship in breast disease and
never did I ask do mammogramssave lives?
(46:38):
Because I mean, after all,there was a big ad campaign,
right?
Mammograms save lives.
That's what everyone thinks,that's what everyone is told and
we accepted it.
Right.
But there's no data.
There's no data that says that.
And there's certainly no datato say that mammograms save
(46:59):
lives in women younger than 60.
And yet, who are we targeting?
We're targeting 40-year-olds andwhy, Well, we have to get our
patients somewhere, we have toget our customers somewhere.
And then, so you know, I can'thelp myself Like I, I cannot
(47:21):
help myself, I can't stay awayfrom it.
My, my, my PR team tells meagain and again and again just
stop, just stop, you don't needto do it, it's not necessary,
you have a following, you don'tneed to stir the pot.
And I can't help myself.
And nearly every day I hearsome moron sorry to be so
(47:47):
denigrating, but I hear somemoron say denigrating.
But I hear some morons say, well, you wouldn't tell someone to
not take a cross-country flight,so it's the same amount of
radiation, mammograms are safe.
And I'm like, oh my God, thisis the logic, and these are not
(48:07):
uneducated people, these areradiologists saying this that
it's the same amount ofradiation as a cross-country
flight.
And you wouldn't tell someonenot to fly, so you shouldn't
tell someone not to get amammogram.
It's as safe as flying.
Really, really, you can'tappreciate the difference
between the scattered radiationthat you get during a
(48:31):
cross-country flight and thefocused cone down radiation you
get to the compressed,traumatized tissues of the
breast during a mammogram it'smadness, and we just, we blindly
trust you know, I, I told therate uh, they wouldn't let me
order an ultrasound Cause I saidI don't want to do, uh, I'm not
(48:57):
gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (48:58):
And the radiologist
said to me uh, no, no, we don't,
we, you can't, you can't orderthe ultrasound until we've done
the mammogram.
I said I'll tell you what youuh, take your testicles, squash
them and irradiate them, andthen I'll send all my patients
to you.
And he hung up on me, becauseit's a and I so I'm sure that
men came up with the idea of amammogram.
It wasn't a woman's idea,because it's a squash.
Speaker 2 (49:19):
Certainly not.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
Yeah, it's inflamed
and now you're going to
irradiate it.
Okay, you want to get cancer?
Here's the way to get cancer.
Speaker 2 (49:33):
That's exactly it.
This is the perfect recipe,right?
It's how to create the customer, how to create the customer,
and then they have everyonebelieving that it's for the good
.
I know, which is so astoundingto me, like, thank God, I had my
mammogram, it saved my life.
I know, which is so astoundingto me, like, thank God, I had my
mammogram, it saved my life.
(49:53):
Are you kidding me?
Are you kidding me?
And I don't want to.
I don't want to kind of make amockery of that because, thank
God, people are alive.
But you know, it's so hard toget them to see that probably
they would have never, ever,ever been diagnosed with breast
(50:17):
cancer.
Right, they would have neverhad a reason to think that their
life was saved.
Right, like it's.
Like it's like they're givingpeople the disease and then
taking credit for saving them.
It is so crazy, right, right,it's so crazy to me.
(50:38):
Right and yet no one sees it.
Speaker 1 (50:41):
They don't see it.
And even if you show it to them, they don't see it, so they're
hypnotic.
You know, I had a lady withwildly disseminated
non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, a singlemom, a lady with wildly
disseminated non-Hodgkin'slymphoma, a single mom, and she
went to her oncologist and hevery kindly, very good bedside
manner, told her that herdaughter is going to be an
(51:03):
orphan.
Isn't that sweet, I mean soanyway.
So she came to me, we workedwith her about six months later,
clean, she went and showed himthe scan and she said you want
to know what I did?
And he said, no, okay, so thatso even when they're giving
there, he had the opportunity,but he knew he doesn't want to
know, that he doesn't want to,you know?
And?
And that when I heard that, Irealized, by the way, she just
(51:25):
contacted me.
It's been 15 years, 16 years.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
Yeah, and it's
amazing.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Do you know Kelly
Turner?
Have you ever met her?
She wrote two books RadicalRemission and Radical Hope.
She's a PhD and I don't reallyremember how it started, but she
wanted to write a book aboutthose radical remissions, those
people who were told by theirmedical oncologists that you
(52:04):
know, go make your arrangementsright, like, tie up your loose
ends and then these people arealive 5, 10, 15, 20 years later.
So she wanted to know what arethe common threads, what's going
on here, what's happening withthese people that is not
happening with everyone else inthe medical oncologist's office.
(52:28):
And at one point she went backto the medical office, the
medical oncologist where she hadstarted, and you know he said
you're not going to find any ofthese stories.
And she said to him you know,do you want to hear about what
people are doing?
(52:48):
Do you want to hear about thestories?
And he said no, what people aredoing?
What you want, do you want tohear about the stories?
And he said no.
He said, and I also don't wantyou telling them, because I
don't want you getting thesepeople's hopes up, because these
people are not going to live.
And it's very true that if allyou do is cut and burn and drug.
(53:10):
You are not going to live Right.
That's very true and that's allhe can see and he cannot see
past that.
And so you know, when you talkabout the head and neck surgeons
and not giving informed consent, and not creating a real
picture, and doing this despitethe fact that they know that the
(53:32):
outcome is going to be horrible, they can't see that, they're
blind to that.
And even if they could, theydon't want to.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
Yeah, and there's
something I've realized that
it's very sad, but it's how youdefine the word mercenary.
When we graduate medical school, we have to take something
called the Hippocratic Oath.
I took Hippocratic Oath and Iknow you did too not to do any
harm to your patients.
Most of the doctors I'm runninginto have taken the Hippocratic
(54:05):
Oath not to do any harm totheir careers and sadly, that
comes before you, and so so youknow it.
My moment when I realized I wasgoing to change, I realized it
was like in one moment I said I,I can no longer ethically
practice conventional medicineand I just I, I couldn't.
(54:26):
But once I knew it, it was, itwas over, it didn't take me
about three months to closeeverything down, but I just
couldn't do it.
Once you know you can't do itanymore.
So, and that's the thing.
But I think you have to becaught up in this.
You have to be in a spell orwhatever it is, when they tell
(54:47):
you you have two weeks to live,eight months to live.
How?
do they know.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
How do they know?
They don't know.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
They don't know how
long they're going to live.
They can't tell you how longyou're going to live.
Speaker 2 (54:59):
But the problem is,
when they start to use those
words, people believe them.
And the number one predictor ofhow long you're going to live
is how long you think you'regoing to live.
How long you're going to liveis how long you think you're
going to live.
I remember I had this woman andshe had had metastatic disease
I'm not kidding for like 10years, 12 years, something like
(55:21):
that.
And she kept saying to me all Iwant is to see my daughter
graduate from high school, and Iwould tell her time and time.
Please don't say that to me,please.
I don't want you to put a capon it.
I don't want you to give meyour final date, like just tell
(55:44):
me you want to live as long aspossible, but when you put a cap
on it, there's a cap on it.
And do you know that herdaughter graduated high school
on Friday and she died on Sunday?
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
That's the power of
the mind.
Speaker 2 (55:58):
It's just so crazy.
It's the power of the mind.
It's the power of the mind.
Speaker 1 (56:03):
And the mind is made
up of words and pictures, so you
have got to have the greatestrespect for it.
And don't you know, when wetalk about sorcer, sorcery, what
they do in the hospitals issorcery.
They put a spell on you,abracadabra.
And when, in the moment, theysay that you're done, and that's
why I, you know, I mean, youknow, I'm like completely around
(56:24):
.
I don't ever go there, you know, ever, ever, there's never.
You know, you broke your leg.
Baby's coming out feet firstOkay, stuff like that.
Yeah, there are times to gothere.
Speaker 2 (56:34):
Oh, I think there's a
time and a place.
Listen, if you have a rupturedappendicitis, I don't want you
to put a stick in your mouth and, you know, bear down on your
teeth at home, like that's.
That's not going to work andthere there is a time and a
place, right?
So, appendicitis, you should goto the hospital.
You break your hip?
(56:56):
You should go to the hospital.
Even if you're having chestpain, you should go to the
hospital.
We can intervene here in areally meaningful and positive
way.
However, most of the diseasesthat we deal with are chronic
diseases brought on by diet andlifestyle, and when you go to
(57:17):
the hospital with these diseases, they only make them worse.
They only make them worse.
So they give you a drug whichnecessitates another drug, which
necessitates another drug,which necessitates another drug
which necessitates another drug.
And you get into this wholepolypharmacy thing.
And this is where you know.
(57:37):
When you said that study thatcame out that said the medical
system is the number three causeof death, it probably you know
they're talking about accidentaloverdose or polypharmacy or
things like that.
But that's another systemthat's totally blind to what
(57:59):
they're doing or there's someevil genius at the top going
like this.
But I unfortunately thinkthere's a lot of pawns in the
system.
I think doctors get caught upin it.
I also think that it's really,really hard to step away from
(58:22):
what you've been doing,especially when it's the only
thing you know.
Or you're the provider for yourfamily.
I mean, listen, I started a newcareer at 50.
Were the provider for yourfamily?
I mean, listen, I started a newcareer at 50 and thank God that
I have an extremely supportivehusband and and my family well,
they tolerate me.
(58:42):
But you know this, this was areally, really, really hard
decision for me and it's still.
You know, I could havecontinued to did what I was
doing and I could have continuedto be a surgeon and have a very
, very comfortable life.
It would have required meturning off my brain to
(59:05):
everything that I learned,everything that I knew to be
true, right.
But you, you need to know thatmost people don't have that
insight because they haven't hadthe opportunity to see it any
other way and they don't knowany better.
They don't know and, and mostof them would honestly say, and
(59:29):
most of them would honestly say,like, when we talk about
mammograms, most radiologistshonestly say what's wrong with a
mammogram?
Speaker 1 (59:38):
I know, I know.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
They're dead serious.
What's wrong with a mammogram?
Most doctors honestly saywhat's wrong with a mammogram
it's very little radiation.
Speaker 1 (59:53):
That's what they say.
Yeah, well, and you can't.
You know and actually when theyask that question you, you
should know it at that momentthat there's no matter what you
say, it won't matter.
So the end of discussion.
They won't hear it.
It's like they're speakingCzechoslovakian and you're
speaking, you know, russian, orwhatever.
Yes, you're not going tocommunicate, so don't even try.
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Yeah, I would have
gone with Japanese there.
Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Or Japanese.
Ok, so you know, and that's it.
And language is very, veryimportant.
So you talk about the wordcancer?
See, I don't, and I'm sureyou've heard that I say this.
You talk about the word cancer?
See, I don't, and I'm sureyou've heard that I say this.
But to me, if you try to lookup the definition of cancer
(01:00:39):
right, because words aresupposed to communicate, Like I
have the word cup, I gave youinformation.
Now, if I use the word cancer,all I know is that somebody born
between June 21st and July 22nd, that's it.
There's no other thing.
Why didn't we call itsagittarius?
Let's call it leo, because itand I promise you, if we opened
you up, we would not find anastrological sign.
So there, this is astrology.
It conveys no, but it doesconveys emotion, and it says
(01:01:02):
you're going to die.
It just stole your future, itmade your agendas irrelevant.
That is what it did.
So let's use what it is.
They're chronically fermentingcells.
They adapted and now they canferment.
So I call them CFCs, and whenyou hear the words, when you
hear the acronym CFC or you hearchronic, it doesn't hurt, but
it gives you information.
And then you say, oh, that'swhat's happening.
(01:01:23):
They're fermenting because, oh,so now you can figure out why
it happened and you develop astrategy and you can actually oh
, okay, but the other way youhear cancer it'd be cancer.
It's just a.
It's just a.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a.
It's a, it's a nightmare.
It's a.
There's no information.
So that's why I don't use theword.
And I hear, I tell people.
Don't let anybody say you tellpeople when you're talking to
(01:01:45):
them, don't ever use that word.
And I always say when were theyborn?
I find out what theirastrological sign is.
I said, oh, you're Leo.
So if anybody ever says, how'syour cancer, Say what are you
talking about?
I'm Leo.
Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
Yeah, but forget that
word.
Please forget that word.
It'll kill you.
It's a stab in the heart.
It's a stab in the heart, Iknow.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
I know Because it
notion of what it means.
And if all you do is follow theconventional paradigm, it does
mean that, right.
And what we need to do in auniversal way is change how we
(01:02:27):
approach it, change how wediagnose it, right, because we
should be diagnosing it far, farless than we do, and I hear you
that we shouldn't be diagnosingit at all.
I hear that.
I think, at this point in thegame, it's a pretty unrealistic
(01:02:48):
expectation that we're gonnachange the world, although I
would love to, but we need tostop looking so hard for it,
right, like there's no benefitto doing that.
And that's not exclusive to thebreast.
It's true of the prostate aswell.
We started to look so hard forprostate, right, that we created
(01:03:12):
a whole population of peoplethat didn't need to be a part of
that club.
They didn't, and it doesn'tserve them in any way.
Shape or form Same with thethyroid Doesn't serve in any way
.
Shape or form to be doing allto be looking so hard for this.
(01:03:32):
And the same is true with bloodpressure, right.
We keep lowering the number atwhich we're going to treat.
So now we put people onmedication and what happens?
They have syncopal episodesbecause we've made them
hypotensive right, and now theyhave a head injury because they
(01:03:54):
were treated for something thatthey need to be treated for and
for as long as we continue tolower the thresholds, right.
So now we decided that we'regoing to lower the threshold
again to treat cholesterol right.
Like cholesterol is somehow anissue.
And why isn't anyone sayingwait, what is wrong with
(01:04:19):
elevated cholesterol?
What does it really mean?
No one's saying that.
They're saying okay, I guessI'll take the statin, because
they told me to take the statin.
And then what happens?
They're depressed, they'reanxious, they, uh, they.
You have a 63% increase indiabetes.
63% increase in diabetes forsomething that was not changing
(01:04:45):
your risk of having acardiovascular event.
That's the amazing part to me,right?
Is it's just all take away this, take away this, take away this
without without giving anyone abetter outcome.
Speaker 1 (01:05:02):
Well, the studies for
the statins don't look at do I
live longer, do I have a morehealthy life?
They just look did it lowercholesterol?
Yeah, it did right.
Okay.
Well, what is you know what?
70 of our white matter ischolesterol.
So we're seeing, we see in ourbrain in our brain.
So we're seeing alzheimer's.
We're seeing what we callalzheimer's because we're we're
(01:05:24):
on statins, we're not makingcholesterol.
You need cholesterol, believeme, you don't need anybody
else's cholesterol.
So I always thought if, okay,your cholesterol is high and
you're worried about it, theonly thing that I think about is
what the and what they don'tmeasure is do you have an
oxidized LDL?
If you do, then you're introuble.
But if you're oxidizing that,you're oxidizing everything,
(01:05:44):
which means you know.
So that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
It's a systemic thing
?
It's not.
But it's not your cholesterol,exactly Right.
It's the inflammatory processthat's happening in your body
and we have a number of ways tomeasure that.
We don't have to measure it incholesterol, and, incidentally,
lowering cholesterol doesn'tchange that oxidative stress,
(01:06:09):
right?
So that's still happeningwhether or not you're on a lipid
lowering agent.
Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
And it is so amazing
to me that most of the people
that are prescribing thesemedications are not aware of
this.
They're not.
Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
They're not, they're
not.
You know, I remember when I wasconventional and I'd have a
pharmaceutical rep come in rightand they would do their thing
and I would, I would do, Ididn't, I didn't.
They showed me their research,which they paid for, and I
didn't even think about that.
I just, oh, okay, they gave mesamples, I started to use it and
(01:06:48):
I realized, you know, later,when I, when I, when I left that
world, I realized how it works,that's what they do, right, and
it's.
The whole thing is insane.
Um, I didn't question anything.
I realized I didn't do thatbecause I was sold on the fact
that someone's sick.
You got to poison them, I, butI didn't realize it was poison.
But they imagine your childcomes to you and says mommy, I
don't feel good, here's somepoison honey.
(01:07:10):
You know no.
Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Well, but I say that
all the time, because when
people are like, well, you knowwhat's one mammogram?
First of all, no one gets onemammogram right.
Like, if a woman starts at 40and she ends at 70 or 80, that's
30 or 40 mammograms.
And that's if she only has oncea year, which no one does Right
30 or 40 mammograms.
And that's if she only has oncea year which no one does Right
(01:07:33):
Over a lifetime.
Because if you screen a womanfor 10 years, 50% of them will
get called back Right, so it'snot one mammogram a year.
But, um, you know, and if you'reusing that reasoning, right,
what's one mammogram?
Well, what's one dose ofarsenic?
(01:07:54):
Would you take one dose ofarsenic?
Right, like, it's just a littlepoison.
What's the big deal?
How about if I gave you alittle bit every year?
Are you down with that?
Right?
Are you game?
Yes, and they gave you a littlebit every year.
Are you down with that?
Right?
Are you game?
Yes, right, it's just a littlebit of poison and I can't.
(01:08:32):
I think it's just hard formainstream medicine to see it.
They're so blinded by whatthey've been doing and it's so
ingrained in them that they justcan't see outside of it and
also, inherently, people fearchange.
I think that that is a very bigpart of things is that we still
all have the tribe mentality.
It's it's genetically ingrainedin us that if you step outside
of the, out of the safety of thetribe, you're going to get
(01:08:52):
killed.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
You know so.
Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
I I think that that
that exists as well, that even
if sometimes I'm having aconversation with someone and I
feel them starting to soften andthem starting to hear me, and
then something snaps and they goright back in.
Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
And that's, yeah,
that's what it is.
I was talking to a patient theother day, a woman who had who's
.
You know many, many years sinceshe first got a spell put on
her called the diagnosis, beforeshe had the sorcerers put a
spell on her.
Um, uh, she's been doing well.
So she had a friend who's hadgot the same problem and she was
(01:09:35):
telling her.
And she goes, what did you do?
And she says, well, let me tellyou what I did.
And the woman's and, and shesays, what did your doctor say?
Tell you?
He said I'm not going to that,I'm going to die, but I, okay.
So here.
So, even though here's a womanthat says here, I didn't die, he
(01:09:55):
tells you you're going to dieand, instead of doing this,
you're going to still stay there.
Do you realize how powerfulthat is?
You're going to do somethingthat you know has a fatal
outcome instead of tryingsomething else.
And that's what fear does.
Fear makes you, uh, uh, makesyou agree to do things that you,
even though you know they'rethe, the, they're not going to
(01:10:18):
be good for you.
You'll look, because you'relistening to authority.
Fear actually does that.
We know that.
So, yeah, standard of scare,you know.
The thing is, the doctorsshould be saying if you do what
I say, you'll be dead in sixmonths, because they don't know.
Believe me, listen, andeveryone has to hear this.
They don't know what happens tothe people that say I'm out of
here.
They have no data on them, sohow can they tell you what?
Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
happens to them Well,
that's what Kelly Turner found
with her book is that when shewent back to the medical
oncologist he said well, youknow, I don't know that she's
alive, I don't know what she did.
She never came back fortreatment, right?
So well, it doesn't mean shedied.
You assume she died.
(01:11:01):
She lived because she didn'tcome back for treatment, right?
And I think that this issomething that is just really
uncomfortable for practitioners,for people.
And I remember I was giving atalk and it was to a group of
(01:11:25):
women who all had metastaticbreast cancer, and I noticed
about halfway through like someeye rolling, and I knew that
only about half of the room wasreally hearing me.
And afterwards I stayed forquestions and this woman put her
(01:11:46):
hand up and she said questions.
And this woman put her hand upand she said you know, I don't
know if what you're saying istrue or not.
All I know is that for me, ifit doesn't work, I want to be
able to blame the drug.
I don't want to have to takeresponsibility.
And I do think that there is apart of that that is true for
(01:12:11):
people, that it's easier toblame the drug than to say I
have any power, and we are nottrained to believe that we have
any power over our health.
We're not the opposite.
Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
Well, that's why the
genetic thing yeah, we're not
the opposite.
Well, that's why the geneticthing yeah.
If they tell you it's genetics,what can I do?
Yeah, oh, it's genetics.
Well then I might as well smoke, crack and cigarettes, right,
because it doesn't matter, right, oh no, but that's-.
Speaker 2 (01:12:48):
All caution to the
wind right right just go for it.
Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Oh, five percent five
percent maybe of conditions are
genetic and you never see those.
They're in, they're ininstitutions, they don't get out
because they can't take care ofthemselves.
But if you made it this far,you've got good genes.
So you know, you're here,you've got good genes and that
that's what we need to know.
So, uh, and you know, like abreast cancer gene, would God
give us a breast cancer gene?
(01:13:13):
What for entertainment?
Or, let's say, you'recompletely into what's his name?
Who's the guy that promotedevolution?
Darwin, yeah, yeah, supposeyou're completely into Darwin.
What's the central part of it?
Natural selection, survival ofthe fittest.
So if we did have a cancer gene, it would have been gone a long
(01:13:35):
time ago because it doesn'twork.
So, either way you look at it,it couldn't be.
Plus, 0.07% of the people diedfrom cancer in the year 1910.
And now what?
We're almost getting close to50%, 40%.
So how could that be genetic?
We would all have to have atleast one parent and one
grandparent.
Speaker 2 (01:13:55):
Well, no, of course
not.
And even when you look at theBRCA gene, I mean, now there's
an 80 some percent incidence ofbreast cancer associated with
that, but 50 years ago it waslike 20%.
So you know, and our genes havenot changed over the last 50
(01:14:17):
years.
Right, it's not your genes.
And as far as the BRCA genegoes, there had to have been
something that was protectiveabout it, because there has to
be a reason why it still existstoday.
Right, it had to have beensomething that was protective
about it, because there has tobe a reason why it still exists
today.
Right, it had to have conferredsome kind of protection somehow
.
Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
So I think.
Speaker 2 (01:14:41):
I think it's just
it's a lot of, it's a lot of
learned ignorance andhelplessness and and it's there
very intentionally again, and Ithink it starts very early on in
the process, certainly in themedical school process, with
(01:15:02):
don't ask questions, here's thefacts, here's the curriculum,
memorize it and don't questionit, because you know all the
work's been done for it, anddon't question it.
Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Because you know all
the work's been done for you.
You don't have to question itRight, and critical minds are
not rewarded?
Oh, no, so, and you know, Iwanted to ask you what you do
because you have?
Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
you have like a.
Is it like an eight week course?
I have a 10 week course where II ask people to be provocative
about where they think thisdiagnosis is coming from.
And what do you?
What are you meant to learnhere?
What, what message are youmeant to receive?
And, of course, I help peoplewith how they eat and how they
(01:15:53):
think and how they move andtheir environment, but mostly
I'm helping them to think aboutwhat is interfering with them
having their best health,because I do think that these
are our messages and unless wetake some time and pause and do
(01:16:15):
some critical thinking aroundthem, nothing is gonna change.
It takes change to change andthe definition of insanity is
doing the same thing over andover again and expecting a
different outcome.
So you know, this is a safespace and an opportunity for
(01:16:36):
people to examine.
Now do I look at genetics withpeople?
Yeah, I do, because I thinkthat there are ways to eat to
support your genetics.
I think that there are somepeople that need supplementation
that they're unaware of.
For instance, for me, if you'replant-based and you're not able
(01:16:59):
to take beta carotene and turnit to the active form of vitamin
A, which is retinoic acid.
If you're not eating animalsand you are not able to do that
reaction in your body, thenyou're going to get into trouble
along the way with immunesystem and things like that.
(01:17:20):
So I think that there are somethings that it's important to
know about yourself so that youcan nurture your nature.
I know for years I would try tokeep up with my husband.
He loves to spin, he loves thespin bike, and I would get up at
5.30 in the morning and wewould go to the spin studio and
(01:17:43):
we would do this HIIT workout onthe bike.
And I would come home, take ashower, go to work and by 10
o'clock I was asleep at my desk.
And what I learned when Itested my DNA is I don't have
good detoxification genes.
So if I do those heavy duty,intense workouts, I create a
(01:18:06):
bunch of exhaust that my bodyneeds to detoxify and I didn't
have a rapid detoxificationsystem.
So here I am at work and mybody's telling me hey, I need
you to go to sleep because Ineed to process this, I need to
take care of what just happenedhere.
And it took me years to makethat connection and I think I
(01:18:28):
didn't make that connectionuntil I did my own nutrigenomic
testing.
So you know I'm not throwingthe baby out with the bathwater.
I do believe that there are manyfacets of conventional medicine
where we can take advantage ofthem and really create our own
individual paradigm thatpromotes our health in the best
(01:18:53):
way.
And I do believe that there isa lot of knowledge and power
available to us when we knowwhere to look and what to do.
On the flip side, these peoplethat come to me and they're like
here I had genetic testing andthey hand me a list of like 150
(01:19:14):
totally inactionable genes,right, like, oh, they gave me my
genetic testing and it's likefor BRCA and BARD and CHECK2 and
all of these things.
And all of these things arepart of that same scare paradigm
that you were talking about inthese scare tactics.
(01:19:34):
And I say to them what did yourdoctor tell you to do about
this?
And they were like nothing.
And I said do you want to knowwhat I think you should do with
it?
And they say yeah, and I saywalk five feet and throw that
shit in the trash.
It's not of any value to you.
So again, I do think that thereare things that we can use.
(01:20:01):
There are tools that we can useto optimize our health and,
after all, that's what it's allabout.
And also, health is a journeyand you have different needs at
different times in your life andwe need to be insightful and
respect that.
But mostly we need to be intouch with ourselves and we have
so much more power than wethink, so much more power than
(01:20:23):
we've been led to believe, andwe need to step into that power,
step into our intuition, andknow and love your body and know
that disease is a construct,like all this garbage that
people are talking about, thatgender is a construct.
Disease is a construct.
It was meant to lure you into asystem that does not benefit
(01:20:46):
you in any way, shape or or form, and it's meant to make the
machine run.
But if you don't want to bepart of the medical machine,
don't be part of it.
There's no benefit to you inbeing part of it.
Speaker 1 (01:21:00):
No, no, the whole
disease model came around from
Rockefeller.
It morphed from the germ theoryand it's implying there's a
thing out there called diabetesand it's going to get into you
and you got to get rid of it.
That's not even anywhere nearthe truth.
If I'm eating too much pasta,bread, potato, rice and cake, I
(01:21:22):
got glucose.
My body's going to reflexively,adaptively, become insulin
resistant.
So what I have to do is notmake that adaptation necessary.
Easy.
It's an easy, easyunderstanding.
So don't go for the diseasemodel.
You know I wanted to mentionsomething about you talking
about the genes.
We all know that if you've beengetting intravenous vitamin C,
(01:21:46):
you know your doctor asked forwhat's called the G6PD first, g6
, g6pd, right, and because thatis it.
In other words, it's what thered blood cells have and they
it's what they rely on to, to,to, to protect themselves from
oxidation.
So if you have a deficiency andpeople, people know it because
they can't eat certain legumesand stuff like fava beans and
(01:22:06):
stuff.
So I had a woman come in.
She had breast CFCs, or let'scall it breast, what's it?
Sagittarius?
Speaker 2 (01:22:15):
Whatever, we all know
what you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
Yeah, Sagittarius on
her breast.
Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
Don't use Sagittarius
, that's my son.
Speaker 1 (01:22:22):
Oh, okay, okay, Leo,
she had a Leo breast, it's my
husband, it's more appropriate.
No, he's a TARS.
So so she had that and she had.
She had known G6PD.
She goes you don't have to testme, I'm a.
And so we did test her.
I think she was a three orsomething, really, really low,
and she couldn't eat this, shecouldn't eat that.
And I couldn't imagine helpingsomeone with breast CFCs and not
(01:22:44):
use vitamin C.
I just couldn't imagine.
So I okay, I'm gonna give you alower amount.
So I gave her 15 grams and I wasdoing it like three or four
times a week and I kept checkingher her, um, her half the globe
, and I wanted to make sure shewasn't hemolyzing and it
everything was fine.
And I did it, I guess I don'tknow how long.
And then I said well, noproblem, let's go up to 20.
(01:23:04):
Uh, 25.
And then I said you know what?
And I'd be shooting on 25 forwhy, said you know what?
And I'd been shipping on 25 fora while.
I said you know, I'm going tocheck that G6PD again, see
what's going on.
It was 15.
And I mentioned that at alecture with Dr Frank
(01:23:25):
Schallenberger had put on hisozone and he said you know, I
had the same thing happen withozone, because you're not
supposed to give ozone either.
So, in other words, what we didwas we challenged it in the
body upregulated it.
Speaker 2 (01:23:38):
In other words,
adaptation.
Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
Yeah, and we, and we
have that capability If you just
you can't, if she, if we wouldhave given her 50 grams, she
would have been in trouble.
We just so we have to respectthat as well.
Now there's one other thing Igotta tell you this, and and I I
have a hard time with itthere's a guy that made it, came
up with the thing called cocoonwater.
Have you heard that?
(01:24:00):
K-a-q-u-n no hungarian.
I'll send you the.
I'll send you the did.
He did his phd dissertation onit.
All that it'son water, and whatit does is it takes the water
molecule, he's got some sort ofelectrical thing underneath the
tub and it turns it into exoticoxygens like 10, 12 oxygen atoms
.
They go right into cells and Ithink what happened?
(01:24:21):
And I've seen tumors disappear.
Somebody grew back half oftheir finger.
I mean it's crazy.
And I said I told him.
I told him.
I said I think what's happeningis it's getting in there, it's
changing the tumormicroenvironment so the immune
system's no longer suppressed.
And he said no, here's what hetold me.
And I said, if this is true,you're going to get a nobel
prize.
You have to understand that.
(01:24:41):
Uh.
So he said what?
Speaker 2 (01:24:43):
happened.
Well, if they don't, if theydon't kill him, right he which
they might.
Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Yeah, he's Hungarian,
but they found out.
What he says is that, look, hetook guinea pigs Because guinea
pigs have the same problem as usthey can't make a scorpate
Right Vitamin C.
They can't make it because theylack an enzyme.
Go away, okay.
So God.
So anyway, he gave guinea pigsthis water and guinea pigs
(01:25:13):
regular water and he startedchecking the ascorbates in their
urine.
It was really high.
So he does it with people too.
He says when they first come in, he measures their HIF1 alpha
and he measures their ascorbate,and usually HIF1 alpha is like
thisorbates here, but the timethey leave is the opposite.
So he says that he's activating.
(01:25:33):
We actually do havel-galunolactone oxidase and it
gets activated.
I said, whoa, I mean.
So if that's true, do yourealize that what that would
mean?
So whatever his water is,whatever that off that water.
I don't think that's what it is.
I can't, possibly.
I just don't want to believethat.
See how rigid I am.
(01:25:54):
I don't want to believe that.
I don't want to believe that.
But who knows, you know, maybeit's true, but wouldn't that be
interesting?
So Wouldn't?
that be amazing, wouldn't thatbe amazing?
I'm going to send you the dataand stuff.
But the tub is amazing.
His daughter had pancreaticCFCs.
Six months no pancreas.
(01:26:14):
She had a five-centimeterlesion.
Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Okay, you need to
share this resource with me,
Okay all right, I will.
You're going to want to have acouple baths in your clinic.
Well, so I don't have in person.
I mean, what I'm doing atPerfection Imaging is just
(01:26:57):
screening.
I don't treat people in person,I have 100% virtual practice.
But I need to know about theseresources because so many people
come to me as like a lastresort and of course I want to
help them.
I want to help them, butthey've been so conditioned by
the conventional system andoftentimes they come to me after
they're so beat up by theconventional system, right.
So they come to me and theyhave white counts in the ones
and they've been on thesehorrible, horrible drugs for
(01:27:17):
years.
And now they're progressingthrough the drugs and they want
to know what miracles I have tooffer.
And sometimes we can stabilizethese people and start to
reverse the process.
But it's so much harder whenthey've been so damaged for so
long.
Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
And it's just, it's a
tragedy.
That's why I'm so, I get so.
So I think you and I have cometo the same conclusion, because
what you're doing basically inthat eight weeks, 10 weeks, is
you're helping them becomere-educated, you're trying to
(01:27:59):
get them to clear away the falsestuff, examine themselves,
because we all know the answer.
I mean, there's not a cigarettesmoker on the planet that
doesn't know they probablyshouldn't smoke, or an alcoholic
who doesn't know they shouldn't.
You know, we know.
Speaker 2 (01:28:16):
Yeah, but I've been
fired by those people.
I remember, I so distinctlyremember this woman who, you
know, begged me, begged me,begged me to take her on and we
do a history.
And at the end of my firstmeeting with people, I say to
them hey, listen, not fornothing.
(01:28:37):
But I think that these are thethings that you need to think
about.
She was a nutritionist, kind ofa celebrity nutritionist.
She was drinking a bottle ofwine a day, a bottle of wine a
day.
And I said to her you know, youneed to consider that wine is a
toxin.
(01:28:57):
No, wine's good for you, it'sred wine.
I'm like, no, that is a storythat you've been told and a
justification that's been putout there, but a bottle of wine
is not good for you.
And she called my, she calledmy office manager the next day
(01:29:18):
and fired me because she saidthat I blamed her for her cancer
.
Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
Right, exactly yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
Right, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:29:28):
And they they get
angry.
They'll get angry at you if youchallenge that.
Speaker 2 (01:29:33):
Yeah, and it's easier
to be mad at me.
Right, it's my fault.
It's a lot easier to be mad atme than to look inside and say I
mean even having theconversation with yourself, why
are you drinking that much?
What are you trying to cover up?
What are you trying to suppress?
What are you trying to numbRight?
(01:29:56):
Because if you're drinking thatmuch or smoking that much or
taking that many pills, like I'mnot picking on drinkers, but if
you're doing any, of thosethings every day.
What are you afraid to feel?
Right, because if you're afraidto feel it and you're just
(01:30:17):
suppressing it with substances,guess what's going to happen?
You're going to have amanifestation of whatever it is,
because you were meant to feelthat for some reason and you
can't suppress it, you can't runaway reason, and you can't
suppress it, you can't run awayfrom it, you can't hide it.
You're meant to feel that for areason, it has a purpose, it
(01:30:40):
has a message Yep, yep, we arean aspect of nature.
Speaker 1 (01:30:45):
I don't know.
19th century, we had essays managainst nature, that's like my
thumb being against my hand.
You know, we are in nature.
You can't so anyway, and we're.
And the thing about nature,natural laws, they're
non-negotiable.
You know, you cannot plant thetomato seed and negotiate a
cucumber.
That, or you can't, and that'swe have to real, you know.
(01:31:07):
Another thing I wanted to touchon this before we go, because
it's getting layout.
Yeah, it's like um, is that?
Uh, you came to thatrealization and I did too.
There comes a point withsomeone and you have to realize
and it may be their destiny, thewill of god, karma, however you
want to, whatever name you'regoing to put on it that they,
(01:31:29):
they got to go this way and thenrespect it, because it's like
my mother said to me.
My mother had a myelodysplasticsyndrome and she was in her
sleep.
You know, she was in troubleand she am, of course, she heard
me talk before I could talk,but she, she looked at me one
day and she goes.
I know what I should do, but Ijust can't.
I you know, and so you know shegoes.
(01:31:53):
I'm going to, you know I said,you know so for her.
You know, we're Italian pastameatballs.
Go, I love it, go, enjoy it,you know, and just do what you
have.
What?
Because you have to honor you.
If someone is really not goingto do it, that's fine.
That's their journey andrespect it, you know.
And where I have a problem iswhen the person with me, what is
(01:32:15):
all on board with this, and thespouses.
So whatever benefit we getduring the day when they go home
to that spouse, it's going towipe it out and that's why we
have to.
You know, cancer, just likepregnancy, the yeah, the woman
gets pregnant, a baby, but theyboth have a baby.
The father, he wasn't pregnant,but he still has a baby, right.
(01:32:37):
And so the same thing withcancer, the whole family is
affected and therefore the wholefamily should be involved in
your resolution of this problem.
And that's why I want thefamily to come, everybody come,
because if you have a dramaticchange in your life and they
don't, what are you gonna?
That's like you're an alcoholic.
You go back to the bar.
You can't sit at the bar toolong if you're an alcoholic.
(01:33:00):
So you know, I that or at all orat all right, right, right, so
yeah, and we have to all be onboard and so, anyway, you are,
you're just like a female, me,and and it's interesting, you're
, you're, you know, you've kindof obviously, you know you end
(01:33:23):
up focusing on the breast, butwe, if you look at it, you'll
find out that the same thing isgoing on in the prostate, the
pancreas.
Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
There's only one, the
only difference is the tissues
Location, location, location,but it's the same process, yeah,
so Of course, obviously, andyes, I did choose to focus in
one area, but that I agree withyou of focus in one area, but
that I agree with you.
And the truth is that breasthealth is health, and the same
(01:33:58):
things that are going to giveyou a healthy breast are going
to give you a healthy brain anda healthy heart and a healthy
gut and a healthy mood andhealthy bones and joints.
And you know, it's all the same, it's all the same because
health is health.
We are one system.
We are one system and it is thesystem pulling it apart that
has kind of deceived people intothinking that you can separate
(01:34:23):
and fragment and you know thisperson does this and this person
does that.
No-transcript, of course not.
(01:35:03):
You know, have I saved everysingle person who came in my
path?
No, of course not.
Have I saved every singleperson who came in my path?
No, of course not.
But I've made a significantimpact and made a huge
difference for a lot of peopleand through my book, through my
podcast, through my imagingcenters, through the work that
I'm doing with survivors, I'mchanging the lives of millions
(01:35:27):
of people.
Speaker 1 (01:35:31):
And it's my privilege
to do it.
So I was reading that yourcenters are not just where you
live, right?
Are they in different states?
Speaker 2 (01:35:44):
So I have two now,
one in Pennsylvania, one in
California and I'm putting upeight on the East Coast this
year, so four in New York andNew York Metro, four in Florida.
We'll put another one or two inCalifornia and I'm just going
to fill in.
After that I'm going to put up50 of these.
Speaker 1 (01:36:04):
Are you, when you put
them up in the let's say, you
know a center wants to buy it bythat Are you teaching them also
about the tier first, do you?
You, you, okay, good, good you,I.
You gotta send me someinformation on that.
I really.
Speaker 2 (01:36:19):
I will.
Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
I really like that,
and then I was just, and then we
don't have time today, but I'dlike to get your take on the
relationship between the mouthand the rest of the body because
, by the way, the mouth neverleft the body.
You know, I don't know why wehave two professions, but the
thyroid and breast are on thesame meridian, and that's of
course, and they both have theyboth have, they both need iodine
(01:36:42):
, and so you know there's a lotof stuff, so we can't ignore
that either.
There's all these other real?
Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
no, of course not.
There's.
There's a very real and trueconnection.
I've interviewed two or threeor maybe even four brilliant,
brilliant holistic dentistsrecently.
But you know that's anotherprofession where the the
education has not caught up atall and you know they're still
(01:37:13):
all drill and fill in the dentalschools and no one is talking
about holistic health or therole of diet or any of that.
They're still talking aboutfluoride and fluoride treatments
, and fluoride is an industrialwaste product.
It's like oh, where can we putthis crap?
(01:37:36):
Oh, we'll put it in toothpaste.
I mean, it's horrible.
Speaker 1 (01:37:39):
Horrible, and it used
to be.
Prior to that, it was actuallya pesticide, so it's, you know,
I don't know it's so insane, butyou're right, dentists aren't
learning it either.
So and so, even even.
Speaker 2 (01:37:53):
Well, I'm going to
see you next week because you're
coming on mine next week.
So we can get into all of that,then yeah, let's do that.
Next week you get to be thestar of the show.
Speaker 1 (01:38:04):
Ok, fantastic, listen
, I'm so happy you came and did
that and I'm so happy you exist,so it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:38:11):
I feel right back at
you and I can't wait to meet you
.
I get to meet you in two months, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
Yeah, in April.
Speaker 2 (01:38:16):
So exciting.
Speaker 1 (01:38:18):
Yeah, finally.
Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
Because, like I feel,
like I know you so well and yet
we've never like gotten to hugone another.
Speaker 1 (01:38:24):
Right, right, so I
can't wait.
Speaker 2 (01:38:25):
I'm so excited Me too
, but you're in charge of
finding us a vegan restaurant inAustin, okay, I will do it.
Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
Okay, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
I'm putting you in
charge Done, done.
Actually, my husband will findit.
He's so resourceful, he'samazing.
Oh, that's better.
But, we will find it.
I hope he comes.
I hope he's going to come withme.
It mostly depends on what'sgoing on on the home front, but
hopefully he'll come and youknow you'll get to meet him and
(01:38:56):
we and we get to spend some goodtime together.
Speaker 1 (01:38:58):
I'd love that.
Ok, fantastic, amazing, thankyou.
Thank you, my pleasure, sogreat to be with you.
And there we go.