Drug Policy News Roundup

Can marijuana regulation backfire on public health? Join us on the Drug Report podcast as we celebrate International Recovery Day and tackle this provocative question with insights from experts like Michael Botticelli and John Kelly. We'll share highlights from a global webinar focused on the mechanisms and societal support necessary for successful recovery. We'll also respond to Robert Gebeloff's Washington Post column advocating for federal marijuana regulation, raising concerns about big tobacco's potential entry into the marijuana market and the resulting public health issues. Plus, you'll hear a detailed recount of the recent debate on Florida's Amendment 3 for recreational marijuana legalization, shedding light on the ongoing complexities in drug policy reform.

Are veterans being misled about marijuana's effects on PTSD? In a crucial segment of this episode, Kevin Sabet and I dismantle the misinformation spreading within veteran communities. Drawing on recent studies, including research from Yale University, we reveal that marijuana may actually worsen PTSD symptoms, contradicting popular belief. We underscore the importance of distributing accurate information to better support our veterans and encourage our listeners to help by leaving a five-star rating and writing a review. Gain valuable insights and join the conversation on drug policy and recovery by tuning in to this thought-provoking and informative episode.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes or no?
Do you believe nicotine is notaddictive?

Speaker 2 (00:02):
I believe nicotine is not addictive.
Yes, Congressman, cigarettesand nicotine clearly do not meet
the classic definitions ofaddiction.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
I don't believe that nicotine for our products are
addictive?
I believe nicotine is notaddictive.
I believe that nicotine is notaddictive.
Hi everyone, this is LukeNifiratis.
I am your host of the DrugReport podcast.
Thank you for joining us againfor another wonderful week.
Our co-sponsors SmartApproaches to Marijuana at
learnaboutsamorg, and theFoundation for Drug Policy

(00:32):
Solutions at gooddrugpolicyorgthose are the two organizations
you can thank for making thishappen, and I have none other
than the illustrious co-founderand CEO, kevin Sabet, here with
me today.
Kevin, how are you doing?
Doing well.
Thank you, how are you Good?
Thanks for joining us.
What's on your mind?
There's a lot of things wecould talk about today, but I
figured you could fill folks inon just some of the things

(00:53):
you've been up to, just evenover the last week.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, there's just been a lot happening.
Today is International RecoveryDay, so we want to celebrate
that and wish everyone a happyrecovery day.
I was lucky enough to join inon a global webinar with former
ONDCP director MichaelBotticelli, as well as Harvard
professor John Kelly, who'sprobably done more on this from

(01:19):
an academic perspective thananybody in the country in terms
of studying recovery and how tokeep people in recovery and what
mechanisms need to be there insociety to encourage recovery.
So I was very honored to jointhem on this podcast.
There were over 500 people on,which was great, and then it was
recorded.
So many more we'll see it later.
It was also co-sponsored by theUnited Nations and CCAD, oas

(01:44):
Organization of American States,so it was great.
I talked a little bit about acouple of things.
One interesting fact that abouthalf of people in recovery did
not go to formal treatment, soit's interesting to think about
what got them into recovery.
What were the things andmechanisms, the sometimes
pressure, the nudges that gotthem into recovery.
So talked a little bit aboutthat.

(02:05):
Talked a little bit about somecautionary tales, what's been
going on in British Columbia, aswell as what happened in Oregon
with the repeal of their drugdecriminalization experiment
there, and a little bit aboutPortugal, which I think is often
misunderstood, and I sort ofhad some mixed findings.
But so I was talking about thatand really just prefacing

(02:27):
everything under that.
You know, meet people wherethey're at but don't leave them
where they're at quote that welike to talk about a lot.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
That's excellent.
That's great.
So yeah, we're doing a lot ofwork internationally and then
bringing it home on marijuanapolicy.
You had a nice letter to theeditor in the Washington Post
home on marijuana policy.

Speaker 2 (02:45):
You had a nice letter to the editor in the Washington
Post.
Oh yeah, this was somethingthat was kind of you know, one
of these things that getswritten sort of you know two
weeks ago and then getspublished just recently.
So it was published, I believe,late last week and then we got
it out to folks, but basicallyit was a response to the column
the Robert Geldof column aboutyou know how should Harris

(03:09):
approach drug policy basically,and you know his argument is
interesting.
It's basically saying, you know, you know marijuana is, like
what we say, a lot more harmfulthan we think.
That you know we need to, youknow, be very worried about
today's highly potent marijuana,and we should, we should be

(03:31):
very concerned about that.
But then you know the hisanswer is well, gebeloff's
answer is well, the way to dealwith that is to federally
legalize it so we can regulateit.
And I see the allure of that,because we have a horrible
situation happening right nowwhere we have this patchwork of
bad laws, very bad regulations.

(03:53):
States have no idea whatthey're doing really, and so
essentially we need to.
You know it's tempting to say,well, you know what.
So essentially it's tempting tosay well, you know what, if the

(04:17):
feds took it over it would bebetter.
But I don't have a lot of faiththat if the feds took it over
it would be better, becausewe've never really.
Two months after legalization,you know, the big tobacco and
alcohol giants, altria andConstellation Brands poured
billions into it.
Their car crashes have gone up,hospital admissions skyrocketed
, and and it's gotten so it'sgotten a lot worse.
You know, in the and then inthe US, of course, we just see

(04:39):
this big tobacco playbook beingregenerated.
So that was what the letter wasabout.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, it's really good and really prescient as
well, because now we are seeingand for those of you who don't
follow us on Twitter, you shouldCheck out, learn About Sam on
Twitter.
Kevin's in my accounts as wellRJ Reynolds is hiring for a
person in their cannabisdivision and it's parentheses
beyond nicotine.
So the big tobacco industry isalready looking for the latest

(05:08):
addictive substances that arebeing legalized to incorporate
into their portfolio of deadlyproducts, and so I think that's
obviously just puts anexclamation point on that point
of not bringing big tobacco back.
And you know, I do think thatone of the biggest issues I had
with that Washington Post op-edwas, you know, pointing out all
the problems, all the potencyissues, the crashes, the

(05:30):
psychosis and all of that.
Those problems are happeningnow they have been exacerbated
because of legalization.
So the answer is notlegalization, because
legalization is what createdthis.
So, anyway, that that justlogically didn't make sense to
me.
But so so that was a greatpiece.
You wrote Kevin on that.
And then, obviously, for thoseof you who follow us, you know
probably that I just got back afew days ago from debating John

(05:52):
Morgan, the you know thenamesake of Morgan Morgan law
firm, the probably one of thelargest faces of the pro
marijuana movement and he livesin Florida and so we debated
Florida's Amendment 3 tolegalize recreational marijuana
In that debate.
If you go watch, the livestream is on Twitter so you can
check our Twitter account towatch it.

(06:13):
If you want to watch it.
It's about two hours but we hada lot of fun.
It was a wild and rowdy bunch.
He refused to believe that bigtobacco was involved in the
marijuana industry.
He didn't know about it.
I brought up Altria, I broughtup RJ Reynolds, and his firm has
secured lawsuits against thosetobacco companies.
But he was refusing to believethat tobacco is involved in
marijuana because he didn't wantto talk about it.

(06:34):
So I just think that?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you think he doesn't know, or do you think
he's?
I mean, he's probably in such abubble he actually really
doesn't know because he'sprotected, or is he lying?

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I you know, it's really hard to tell with him.
I think there is a case to bemade that he probably has no
idea because basically the wholedebate, night of the debate, he
just talked about how he usesit every day, every night, and
it's fine and everyone's goingto make a lot of money off of
this, and that was basically.
Those were his two essentialpoints and that this was like
other other issues.

(07:11):
So he doesn't seem to really bespending a lot of time
researching this or thinkingabout the ramifications?

Speaker 2 (07:17):
No, because he's just using it and he loves it, so
that's why he wants to use it.

Speaker 1 (07:21):
That's right.
And one thing that was funnythough, kevin.
I asked him at one point in thedebate.
I said because he said I'vebeen using it.
He's like I'm rich and I'vebeen using it every day.
I said were you using it everyday when you were building your
company?
He paused and then he said I'vebeen using it a long time.
You got it on that.
It's absolutely right, john.

(07:43):
You were not using every daywhen you were building one of
the country's largest law firms.
Very interesting, very, very,very interesting yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:50):
We learned a lot from that.
So anyway, very interesting.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Very, very, very interesting.
Yeah, so we learned a lot fromthat.
Well, you did it.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
You cleaned his clock .
I got to say and if anybodyhasn't checked it out, you can
check it out on my Twitter, onSam's Twitter, on Luke's.
It was incredible, I mean, youdid everything right.
You, at once, you know it'slike you charmed him Right.
You at once, you know it's likeyou charmed him.
You also destroyed him.
That was the best way to do it,and I mean that obviously
destroyed, not really literally,but we respect everybody and

(08:21):
he's an interesting guy.
I debated him back eight yearsago.
I definitely did not charm himand he thought that I was
responsible for the opioidepidemic because I'm a doctor,
even though I'm a PhD, not thatkind of doctor.
So very, very weird stuff.
I was actually.
He was tamer than I thought hewas going to be and I really

(08:42):
think it's because he was afraidof you.
Actually, you did a great job.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
Well, thank you Kevin .

Speaker 2 (08:48):
Yeah, I think we both got our bite at the apple

(09:19):
no-transcript webinar, webinarseminar that they do and next
year it's in denver.
This I think it was two yearsago in san diego or something
and it was with judges and lawenforcement, but a lot of
marijuana industry folks werethere.
That I was not expecting.
But the hemp issue and thefight that they're in is just so

(09:41):
out there.
The marijuana people don't likehemp, the hemp people don't
like marijuana, which is reallyinteresting because they were
know they were really joined,joined up before marijuana
legalization happened.
So very interesting to kind ofsee how that's going to play out
For sure, for sure.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
And then the final thing I want to make sure people
saw is that you know, longtimefriend of Kevin's and ally of
ours, dr Paul Chabot, wrote afantastic piece that just came
out today in Real Clear Defense.
So Real Clear Politics hasdifferent sections and they have
a defense section and it's onthis whole issue of testing in
the military for marijuana andhow we still need to keep doing

(10:23):
that.
And he has a decorated careerof service in the military as
well as in federal government.
Dr Paul Chabot does.
So definitely make sure youread that piece.
It's going to go out in theDrug Report newsletter tomorrow
as well, but that highlights howimportant that issue is also.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Big, big time and you know our veterans are being
completely misled on this, eventhough the largest studies,
including from Yale University,are finding that, you know,
marijuana actually exacerbatesthese PTSD symptoms.
So very, very important.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Absolutely so, kevin.
Thank you for joining me, asalways, and thank you to our
listeners.
Please leave us a five starrating, please, and write a
review.
We'd appreciate that.
Have a wonderful rest of yourweek.