In this episode of EdUp L&D, host Holly Owens welcomes back Leena Saleh, a former teacher and current content strategist at Canva. They discuss the emotional journey of transitioning from teaching to corporate roles, the importance of networking, and actionable tips for educators considering a career change. Leena shares her experiences at Canva, the impact of educators in corporate environments, and the significance of building a personal brand. The conversation emphasizes the value of leveraging free resources and the importance of self-auditing in career transitions.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Welcome back to another episode of Ed Up L&D, the show where we
talk about all things learning and development and career
transformation. Today I've got a real treat for
you, my friend and returning guest Lena Saleh.
If you know her as the Ed tech guru, you already know she's a
(00:23):
powerhouse in the education and technology space.
She's the product educator and content strategist at Canva.
She's a former teacher who's helped over 100 million
educators and students unlock their creativity and a fierce
advocate for teachers making bold career moves.
(00:45):
We first had Lena on the show over two years ago, back when
this podcast was still at Up at Tech, and so much has changed
since then for the both of us. In this episode, we dive into
life after leaving the classroomand navigating that emotional
shift, the inside scoop on what it's like working at a global
(01:05):
company like Canva, and Lena's best advice for transitioning
teachers who are ready to take the leap.
This conversation is packed withpractical tips, career
inspiration, and some real talk about letting go of guilt and
leaning into your next chapter. So whether you're a Canva
curious in the middle of a career pivot, or just here for
(01:28):
the LND inspo, you're going to get a ton out of this one.
Let's jump in. Hi, we're ispring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
(01:49):
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, all in one authoring tool for
creating engaging e-learning content, and ispringlearn is an
innovative online training platform for onboarding,
upskilling, and certifying your teams.
We also provide tons of free resources for aspiring and
(02:10):
experienced e-learning professionals, conduct weekly
webinars with top industry experts, and organize annual
e-learning conferences, challenges, and championships.
We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
your needs best. Go to www.icepringsolutions.com
to learn more about us, downloadour resources, and connect.
(02:35):
Hello everyone and welcome to another amazing episode of Ed Up
LND. My name is Holly Owens, and I'm
your host, and I am really excited and really grateful that
Lena is here to come back to theshow after almost over 2 years.
It's been a long time. And actually, the podcast was at
(02:58):
up at Tech back then. So now it's at up L&D.
So there's been some evolution in our lives and evolution in
some of our professional professional lives.
So, Lena, welcome back to the show.
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and to
be back with you on this episode.
I can't believe it's been 2 years.
(03:18):
Like how crazy is? That I know I was like, I was
thinking to myself when we were talking before, I was like, it's
been like a year because with everybody it's like a year.
And then I was like, Nope, it's been a really long time.
So a lot has changed. So why don't you tell the
audience about you, who you are,you, they probably know you from
Ed tech guru and and all the stuff you do at Canva.
So introduce yourself and tell us about it.
(03:40):
Sure. I am obviously Lena.
I work at Canva and I am a content strategist and product
educator. Basically that means that my
specific role at Canva is that we create content to activate
our users. So not just onboarding, but
basically activating our users. And so I specifically work with
(04:02):
the K12 audience because I'm a former teacher.
So so I like to be able to do that.
So that's kind of the work that I do at Canva.
And then I also do podcasting, like Holly, just bringing on
edtech founders or really focusing on teachers who are
making a transition out of the classroom.
And yeah, so that's. Just a little.
(04:23):
Short snippet about me. That's great.
And I, you know, I think it's important that you continue this
work outside. I know you have Canva and canvas
huge to everybody, but everybodyknows Canva.
But the work that you're doing, like with a tech guru and having
the podcast and bringing people on and sharing some of your
videos. I recently watched your one
about teacher transition coming out of the classroom.
(04:46):
Love that one. We'll definitely put a link to
the show notes in that. And as you know, our audience is
made-up of mostly transitioning teachers.
So we're both transition teachers.
We've both been in a space wherewe've been considering like, Oh
my gosh, I don't know if I want to do this anymore.
This was something I thought I was going to do forever.
I'm sure Canva wasn't on your bingo card for life, Amazon and
(05:07):
Yellow Dig and all the differentthings that I've been doing
weren't on my bingo card for life.
So what can you say to the transitioning teachers who are
listening right now and they're thinking like, should I or
shouldn't I leave the classroom?Like what are some things they
should consider? I think your thought is if you
have already made that, like if you've already, if you're
(05:28):
already wondering, your foot is already halfway, I think out of
the door. I think you're already you're
already there. And I think that the part that
holds us back is guilt of leaving.
And I think a lot of times there's like this, it's like bit
of mourning that we do of like, are we making the right
decision? Are we letting people down?
(05:48):
I think as a teacher, you have to think about what's best for
you and what your longevity is. I think Holly and I can both
speak to this that are I never thought that I would be in this
other side of the space. I thought I would be a teacher,
then I thought I would be an administrator and spend like a
good amount of. Time, yeah, and.
Then I thought I would be a policy change maker because to
(06:09):
change the space and education. And then ten years in, I
thought, what the heck am I doing?
I got to get out of here. I need to have an impact from
the other side. So I think there's that part
like you're, you're already thinking about it.
So I would say start that process.
Another thing I would say is, and I'm sure Holly would agree
with this, is like start auditing people around you.
(06:30):
I think you have a wealth of already resources around you.
But as an educator, we only knoweducation.
We actually don't know business terms.
We don't know anything. I didn't know what B to B was.
I know when I started that career, I had no idea what they
were talking about. BBC, which is business to
business, which means Canvas sells to Amazon, that's business
to business. And B to C is Canvas sells from
(06:53):
me like they sell the product tome.
Those are not terms that you would know as an educator and
there's nothing wrong with that.But you just, if you're really
thinking about making the transition out, you need to have
an idea about what business looks like outside of that.
So whether that's an entrepreneur in your family,
whether that's somebody who's doing accounting or who knows
(07:15):
what they're doing, but like just get an audit about what
they're doing in their lives just to spark that interest for
you. Because as educators, you do
50,000 million things and it is really hard to pinpoint what you
want to do. And I think what happens is I
always tell teachers to make this like to do like a list of
like an audit of everything thatyou do in your own life.
And what I start to see sometimes when educators do it
(07:37):
is they hone in on those negative parts of like not
getting weekdays off or not having enough time.
And that's just the reality of teaching.
No matter if you stay in teaching for 100 years or not,
you're not going to get more time.
I wish that were going to be thepossibility.
I think we can lean into like AItools and things to help lessen
that load. But I don't think your time is
ever going to be given back to you in the way that you want it
(07:57):
to be. So I think try to focus on the
positive things like writing student newsletters or you know,
the the specific things that you're doing in day-to-day.
Because when you start to do that, you can actually feel
yourself being pulled to like a specific direction.
And I think that that will help you navigate that journey.
(08:18):
The the guilt you mentioned, it's, it's there.
I mean, like the first few months and it was a long time
ago now out of teaching. Like I was coaching field hockey
too. So I was just like, I cried.
I was like, I can't believe thatI did this.
I was like, what am I thinking? And this is back when
transitioning out in the classroom wasn't a community
(08:39):
thing. This was just I was doing it by
myself. So there weren't wonderful
resources like you and I are sharing or or support
communities or even as big as LinkedIn has gotten at this
point to support us. So I was really trying to figure
it out on my own and that was difficult.
I mean, I did it, but it was very challenging and like you
(08:59):
said, and touching on like all the things that you do too with
that list, list the skills and then you can totally transfer
them into what it would be corporate or what it would be
education. And I think sometimes maybe, you
know, teachers, like you said something about the days off and
and stuff like that, like they're, oh, we're not going to
(09:20):
have a summer break. Well, I'd rather go on vacation
when people are not when I want and not just be locked into
like, you know, some of the two-month, two months, 2 month
things. And teachers do other things
during the summer. They're not just sitting back by
the pool relaxing. They're preparing for the
following year. They're doing professional
(09:40):
development. Like I coached sports, so I had
to go back earlier than everybody else.
So when you really think about it, it's not that much
difference in the terms of the time that you're off.
And some companies offer unlimited PTO.
So a lot of them are are going towards that and there's
conversations about like a four day work week.
(10:00):
So I think definitely that that is changing too.
But you really the emotional piece of is something that you
have to deal with. Yeah, I think, I think as
teachers, your identity is tied up into that.
Like you are a teacher, right? That is your, that is your full
identity. Like you could be a mom, you
could be a coach, you could be all those things, but what you
(10:22):
are at your heart is a teacher. And I think when you make the
transition, it's kind of that identity shift of like, who am
I? What, what would I do?
What? Would I do without it the?
World could I do. I know I don't want to do this
anymore. No idea.
Yeah, You know, yeah. So.
I think those are all up and down emotions, and I think it's
safe to feel that space, to knowthat everyone else is feeling
(10:43):
that exact same space when they think about transitioning.
So give yourself the space to feel that and to mourn because
it is a bit of mourning. But I promise you, I'm sure
Holly can speak to this. I can speak to this.
I feel like I have a way bigger impact now against students
lives than I ever would have in the classroom.
Whether that's talking to founders of startup companies,
whether that's guiding them on, you know, how their product can
(11:07):
be better or not be better. But bringing that teacher lens
lends itself into way more pathways than like a regular
person bring. You have such a knowledge base,
Yeah. It's such a small community when
you think about teaching, and then when you get to work with,
like you said, different companies or different people
like across the world and network with people across the
(11:28):
world, that just opens up endless possibilities and
opportunities for you. Absolutely, yeah.
And I think about me at Canva and working there and my role
specifically is actually what I.Was just you're so you know,
we're like on the same wave likebecause I was just about to say
tell us about Canva because everybody is like looking to
Canva like I should work at Canva.
That's a great first role out ofteaching or what you know.
(11:51):
Yeah, you go ahead. So when I think about that and I
just think about we just crossedour 100 million teacher students
and teachers using Kampa, which is kind of incredible to think
about. The products started like really
at launch at the end of 2019, but really when teacher got in
teacher's hands, it was really 2020.
(12:12):
And if you think about five years, that's 100 million people
all across the globe using it, Ithink is really great.
But the base of the work that I used to do, I used to create all
of the workshops and resources that, like our facilitators or
community or whatever, would go and teach other teachers how to
use the product and how to. Train the trainer.
(12:33):
Yeah, basically like that bit ofpeace.
And I think about that and I always think about, you know,
looking working with like our sales team, which is they're,
they're called district engagement advocates and they're
really like. I like that name.
That's fancy. Yeah, it is fancy, right?
So they all the all the sales rules they can have very like
(12:53):
fancy. But when I think about, I think
about that and I think about theworkshops that I've created and
how art districts who have been trained on these workshops have
higher monthly active users. So we have more users using it
every single month. Of the people who have been who
have used these workshops, essentially, I think that's
(13:14):
pretty cool because I think about how I just only touched
100 kids and now we're thinking about million, like millions.
I could have never done that if I stayed in the classroom.
So I think that's something really special about that.
And now my role has shifted awayfrom just doing workshops.
And now we've relaunched design School, which is like all of our
(13:34):
like education type thing. So if you're ever looking, it's
canva.com/design School, One word.
But the we have all these resources there.
And so now we've started creating courses.
So I just created my first course called Transform Your
Classroom with Canva Co teachingteachers how to use that.
And then I'm currently writing another one that will launch.
(13:55):
Well, we're working. On it will launch soon.
Yeah, watch. Good.
And so I'm just like trying my hand at that.
But I think, and I'm sure Holly could speak this too, but I've
never actually written courses like this where I'm writing like
full on scripting and screen recording.
So I've had to stretch myself innew ways.
So I think being a teacher has helped me be more adaptable and
(14:18):
flexible to learning new things.I think if I weren't a teacher,
I would be, I'd be screwed to behonest with you.
Like I think it would be really to be able to make that
maneuver. So as teachers who are listening
to this, know that you will change roles often, whether it's
you just staying in the same type of role, but the work that
(14:39):
you do can change based on the company's goals and what they're
thinking. So you'll you always need to
continuously be upscaling. Yes, 100%.
And like we're sitting here doing a video podcast like you
have to be comfortable with these sorts of things now in
this world with AI and virtual and digital and all the
different things that are occurring.
(15:01):
And first of all, I, I love Canva.
I could never do, I can't do anything without Canva.
As far as the podcast is concerned, it's a great product.
And you know, as far as like some of the things that you
curate, I saw some of your videos for Cameron, they're
getting like 10,000 plus downloads.
That's pretty impressive. And it just kind of like it
(15:24):
exploded. And I'm sure that the pandemic
helped accelerate that. But beyond that, the product's
so intuitive and you can do different things and then adding
in the AI stuff and design school and it's like it's, you
are thinking what the customer needs before they think they
need it. So you're basically future
proofing the product. It's a little marketing speak
(15:46):
for you so that you can continueto, to grow things.
Like it just doesn't, it doesn'tstay here as this, it grows as
this and it keeps, it keeps growing and it keeps offering
opportunities for people. So I love that about Canva.
I think I think it's great. So what's it, what's it like
working at like Canva, like a large company that has access to
(16:08):
so many resources and all the different things.
Sometimes the audience is like, my dream job is to, I'm sure
Canva's on the list. So what's it like working for a
company like that? I'm going to take a step back
before I answer that part of thequestion.
I worked at a small startup before right out of the
(16:30):
classroom and there were 13 people.
It was and they were based in Israel and I was the only US
based person I worked at. They called Code Monkey.
Oh God, I remember Code Monkey. I've talked to their owner
before. Yeah, go ahead.
And so I worked there for 3 1/2 years.
And I would say for me, I felt that was a better natural
(16:50):
transition for me, moving out ofthe classroom to a much slower,
smaller company where I could have a lot of influence.
And I would say from moving fromCode Monkey to Canva, it was a
big transition for me because I went from working with 13
people. Like 13,000.
You know, on sort of the same time zone ish to working to a
(17:10):
global company where there is now I think we almost crossed
6000 employees now and we have we have offices now pretty much
around the world and we touch somany people around the world.
So I'd say Canva kind of operates as like mini startups
within the big organization. And so each one kind of has like
its own mini startup, but I would say it's fast and slow at
(17:34):
the same time where when something's coming, you got all
hands are on deck and we gotta go right now.
There is no time to think. You just gotta go.
And then there's other moments where you kind of have a lot of
decision makers attached to it and a lot of eyes and a lot of
stakeholders are involved. So what it's like working at
(17:54):
Canva, it's amazing. There's, I don't think there's
not one person in any room that I've ever been in that is not
nice and like kind, but also extremely talented, like
everyone around you. It's easy to get imposter
syndrome still 3 1/2 years laterinto people working with these
people. They come from Google and
Twitter and like, you know, Airbnb and they've been the
(18:14):
heads of companies and they've been heads of their own, like
startups. And then they come and they work
alongside me. And sometimes I think, am I in
this room? Is this the right Rd. for me to
be in? And I have to realize all these
accomplishments along the way. So like I am in the right space.
But I think I love working at Canva and I love that, you know,
they listen to everyone and you know, the products are really
(18:38):
founded by what people want, I think, but trying to keep it
easy. And I think that's the, there's
like a delicate balance between that because Canva is, I don't
know, it has so many bells and whistles that a lot of people
don't know how to use and navigate.
And our job as product educatorsis to learn the product quickly
(18:58):
and then figure out how to translate to the audience.
That's going to make it easy enough.
Like we just had a back to school webinar yesterday and it
was like the highest amount of people.
I think we had like 11,000 like attendees over the different
time zones. And it's crazy.
And like, part of my work is developed like I lead those
webinars and, and, you know, help write the strategy and
(19:19):
things for those. But it's interesting because you
have people that are coming in, you know, educators and
educators don't have time. So how do we tell the story in
the right way that's going to speak to educators?
And if I wasn't a teacher, I would never be able to do that,
right? Like I, you could people come
in, trust me, people come in andtry to tell the story.
And we have to like gut check them and be like, hey.
Yeah. There's are not actually going
(19:42):
to appreciate how you're trying to do this at like such a high
level. So we kind of have to really
take it back because educators don't have time.
So how do you tell the story andbalance those like?
Three. You know those those.
Lines between it and probably you learn that at Amazon, right,
like we are having balance so many different stakeholders from
marketing to sales and everyone has an opinion and everyone has
(20:05):
a voice and you have to figure out how to drown up the noise.
Yeah I definitely 100% agree. Like even though Canva is for
education, it is run like a corporation.
It is not run like you're in a teaching space necessarily.
So you have to, it is as it is acorporate environment just like
Amazon, even though we're working in the learning and
(20:26):
development state space within Amazon pharmacy, like you said,
different stakeholders, like people higher up and, and other
places beyond pharmacy, we're, you know, talking to us or we're
doing different like marketing things for them.
And I mean, as far as I'm concerned, L&D is part marketing
too, because you're doing that with the strategy and, and your
(20:48):
workshops and your webinars and all the things that you offer.
So 100% you have to know how to function being in your own
classroom where you control everything to then stepping
outside where the control and the pivots are endless like
T-shirts. I loved it.
I could sit down, here are my lessons Monday through Friday
(21:09):
set. I know that's there may be a
little bit of tweaking throughout the week, but not
anything compared to like a corporate environment where your
priority on Monday could be changed by Tuesday because
somebody needs something and it's on fire or something like
that. Yeah, and I think that's the
hard part sometimes. Like I'm a perfectionist and I
(21:29):
like things to be. Really.
Are you? Really.
And. We're friends, so she knows.
I know, yeah. My husband always has to remind
me, you know, done is better than perfect.
And I really struggle. I really struggle with that.
And I also sometimes struggle just like asking for help.
Like even if I'm underwater, I think, oh, I'm a teacher.
(21:50):
I gotta carry all this. And I have to be reminded that I
need to lean and on other people.
But yeah, the pivots come quick.Like you have a full thing,
you've done so much work, and then somebody comes and like,
actually, we realigned our strategy.
We got to go a different direction.
So I think that's where a teacher's mindset comes in.
It's like, okay, I've had lessons that I've planned to a
(22:11):
teen. They're so beautiful.
They're the beautifulest things I've ever created.
And then you get to the studentsand they suck, right?
Like it does not work. They do not care what you're
saying. The words that you're saying are
horrible. They don't even relate to what
you're saying. It's not as beautifully planned
as you thought. And so I think that's what I
like to think about as like a startup, as like that lesson
that like you planned, it's so good, so good.
(22:32):
And then you realize that did not hit.
We. Got to go back to the drawing
board and I got to do it right now without thinking about it
and figure out how I can get this across the line quickly.
But well, and sometimes those are your best lessons you've
ever created, right? Are the actual ones where you've
pivoted quickly. I think teachers like what
you're saying with some of the other stuff like where you have
(22:55):
to simplify it down to accommodate, like they're they
don't have a lot of time. They don't there's you need to,
it needs to be actionable quickly.
Like teachers are great at taking very complex situations
or complex topics and breaking them down into simple strategies
or simple ways. I love that about my brain.
It's like I can take something so complex and I can just break
(23:16):
it down into pieces so that they're digestible, you know,
doing all the scaffolding, whatever.
I still use all that stuff in mycurrent role.
So I love that about teachers. Yeah.
And I'd say, you know, to your point about like that part, I
think that's why teachers are really good in a variety of like
role sets, because we can break down complex things into simple
(23:38):
thoughts. And I think, you know, sometimes
people get really big jargon words, you know, and then they
go in like, even if you're selling a product, if I come to
the table and I'm talking to someone who's not well versed in
what I'm talking about and I'm speaking really big jargon
words, they're gonna look at youlike, what do you, what are you
saying? Get out of this.
(23:59):
Room like, I don't know why you're in here with me.
And as a teacher, we can navigate quickly and be like,
OK, I actually need to do ABC. And you know, I've seen teachers
create some even like in our sales teams or marketing teams
or wherever you go. I see teachers take these like
really big complex things and break it down and think like,
OK, what does the end user want and how do we figure out how we
(24:21):
tell this story in the right way?
And I think that's what makes teachers so great at any role
that they decide to do, but specifically in L&D, because
when you're teaching something like pharmacy, pharmaceutical
stuff, that's like big jargon. So very jargon heavy, lots of
acronyms. They can't just pick it up and
be like, oh, this is such a goodread.
Like, we're not reading college level textbooks.
(24:42):
Nobody has time to decipher and like, you know, figure it out.
They want something that's easy,digestible and engaging for them
to understand. And that's like where teachers
play the biggest. Role, I think yeah, 100% Oh my
gosh, this is such a great episode for features.
We always we always get on this topic and I love it.
I want you to talk a little bit about at Tech Guru and tell how
(25:04):
you started that and you know what you love about that
position and all the things you're doing there so the
audience can follow you and if they don't know already.
About that, yeah. Thanks, Holly.
I appreciate that. I started that.
I started, I've always been like, you know, delivered
workshops and like those kinds of things to like teachers and
(25:25):
things. But what I realized is I had
moved from Colorado, where I'm from, to Austin to a new place.
And I just realized that, you know, I started it right around
the pandemic time. I actually started before the
pandemic happened. I just like, you know, it just
so happened. But during that time, you know,
we obviously saw that networks kind of dissolved in like your
regular area and that you could have a wider reach.
(25:49):
Like, you know, Holly and I bothhave found on LinkedIn by being
able to share my thoughts. And so I just started, I first
just started sharing my thoughtson LinkedIn and then I started
getting messages like, Hey, how are you doing this?
Hey, how are you, you know, whatever.
And I was also at the time at Code Monkey doing like some
consulting for like some Ed techcompanies.
I'm like watching products and just, you know, all sorts of
(26:10):
things that I've kind of learnedfrom the classroom.
And I just started only first just talking about Ed tech and
education trends and like how how teachers really need to be
evolving and how we can support them.
And then obviously switch to like COVID stuff and all of that
kind of stuff. And then?
Founders started wanting to likecome on and share their stories
and I was like, all right, great.
And then also in the process, I started getting a lot of
(26:33):
questions about like, how do youleave the classroom?
How does this happen? It started first just like 1
message and then it turned into hundreds.
And I was like, you know what? I'm not going to have any more
coffee chats. I can't, I don't have the time I
could pass through this anymore.So I'm actually just going to
craft this narrative through like YouTube.
And I remember the first time I ever recorded that my husband
was out of town and I just used his space because he also does
(26:54):
in a way different industry thanwe do.
And I just sat there. I probably recorded 45 times.
It probably took me 5 hours to record 1 video.
And I edited it, way over edited.
And I put it up and I couldn't sleep the whole night.
Oh no. The first video, nobody did, you
know, it's fine, you know, And then over time, you just like
get better at the reps But I think I just, I really just want
(27:17):
to try to capture a story of both how we support teachers in
the classroom and how we supportthem outside.
Because, you know, I just had Ally Parrish on which episodes
going live here soon about how ateacher.
Yeah. And just like how she figured
all of that out. But, you know, I think it's just
(27:41):
something you just like have to do is kind of like start
building like a personal brand in that like way.
But I. But I just want to empower
educators. And, you know, I, I also got
nasty messages like, why are youforcing people to leave?
Like, what are you doing? So like, I always wanted to put
like a disclaimer and I'm like, you know, teacher's been
thinking about this for hundredsof years.
This is. They've been looking for an out
for a while. Yeah.
And when we left and when you transitioned, like there wasn't
(28:02):
any resources. There was like Lincoln was not
what LinkedIn is today. You can find everything you did
without ever paying for like a course or figure it out.
Not at that time. There was nothing like nobody
could really. There was not anything really
available for you as, like, a transitioning educator.
So I just wanted to give teachers a place where they
could feel empowered to, like, make a decision on their own,
(28:23):
whichever way they decided to go.
Yeah. I love that and I I love the
supportive community that you have on LinkedIn and all the
things that you share. I think your videos are great.
Stop being a perfect perfectionist because I've
watched many of them. I stopped being such a
perfectionist. Your videos are great.
So, you know, and wrapping up the episode because I knew you
and I could talk a lot about a lot of different things we like
(28:44):
to give the audience, especiallytransitioning teachers, crew
like 3 actionable pieces or tipsor advice that they could think
about and do right now if they're thinking about leaving
the classroom. So I'd love to hear your
perspective on that as an expertin doing it yourself.
And I just looked up the year LinkedIn was founded as 2002.
Shoot off for a while. It didn't.
(29:06):
It wasn't great in like 2002. No, Yeah, no.
It was, yeah. It definitely wasn't that.
But like, I think right around Ijust like, you know, my husband
is has been like a big contributor to like helping.
He's kind of like my business coach.
Oh, I love him. He.
Like connect with whoever. Cuz like, you know, I started
going to like Ed tech events andstuff like just connect with
(29:27):
them and just send them a message and just say like, hey,
how's this going? And then that's kind of how it
started building. I just was like cold outreach,
the scariest thing I've ever done.
But so that's one piece of advice.
Building your number. Yeah.
Cold outreach. Don't be afraid to don't be
afraid to say hi. I mean, this community is fun.
That's what I Yeah, this community is very giving and and
willing to point you in the right direction.
(29:49):
Yeah, I would say. My sister actually called me.
She's a high school teacher and she was asking me what do I do?
And I've had a countless of these conversations, obviously
this summer, and I said this at the beginning and I'll say it
again here, you have to audit your life.
And what I mean by audit your life is, I mean, write down all
the things that you do in a day.And I mean, cleaning the house,
(30:10):
it could be organizing your tripto Europe.
I don't know. It could be anything that you're
doing. And then everything that you do
within like your school, not maybe day, but like everything
that you're responsible for throughout your role, take those
and rate them like in a neutral,you know, like dislike category.
Because if you're really thinking about leaving the
(30:31):
classroom, you've got to have anidea and strategy of where
you're going to go. And the only way that you can do
that is by figuring out the things that you like.
And it's so hard to figure that out.
It's very, very challenging. I have to sometimes gut check
myself and do this to myself often and then I say audit your
network and start like reaching out and networking.
Get on LinkedIn. Your does not need to be
(30:52):
perfect. Just put in a couple of details.
Make sure you have a profile picture because nobody's gonna
talk to you without a profile picture.
We think you're a bot. And yeah, it's just just do it.
Just put a profile picture and try to keep it like, like a
professional headshot. You know, you don't have to do
anything like fancy. Yep.
OK, Just like take your head, remove the background on Canva,
put like a cool, fun background up there and then upload it into
(31:15):
LinkedIn. Like you don't need to get too
fancy with yourself. And then just start reaching out
to people whose roles you might be interested in.
And don't be asking us for jobs.OK?
Don't to review your resume. That right?
Away like I know. I know I did that a lot.
I know you were thinking if I. Know, trust me, I think it's, I
(31:35):
think it's amazing, but I need to know you first before I can
put in a referral. And in fact, Campbell will not
take it unless you have a personal referral and you can
actually speak to how you know this person and why they would
be a good fit. So it's, it's actually almost
impossible for us to actually doreferrals unless we have like a
really good personal connection with you.
(31:56):
But just like start connecting and just like being like, hey, I
see you work in marketing at blah, blah, blah.
I would love to just hear what aday in the life looks like for
you and just just shoot your shot that way.
I think those are like, those are like the things that I think
are really important and networking goes a really,
really, really, really long way.And then my last tip is when you
(32:17):
get on LinkedIn, you can obviously share your journey,
but try to not over share too much because at the end of the
day, you're still teaching and you're still in a contract with
somebody. So when you're posting like,
hey, I'm searching for ABC job, but I'm still in the classroom,
they could come and look at that.
(32:38):
They're probably not going to, but you could technically, it's
possible that they could be deciding like, hey, you're not a
good fit for us and they could just let you go.
And you don't want to have that as like your back, delicate at
first. Yeah, just try to keep.
It like professional and fun andlike easy and there are like so.
Many resources. And I was just going to say, I
(32:58):
think, but there are so many resources out there following
Holly, following so many people on LinkedIn, There's so much
good information there. You don't feel like you need to
post. You can just utilize the
resources that they have and youknow, leverage that without
paying for anything first. Not pay for anything.
Oh my gosh, this is the best. Piece of advice that you're
(33:21):
ready. For right, because people you
can just dump so much. It's just time is money and
money is time. So think about that when you're
like doing something and if something is not you're not sure
about it, you think you should pay for it, don't.
There's so much resources out there for free YouTube videos,
resources on LinkedIn, people share free PDFs, there's so much
stuff. You do not need to pay unless
(33:43):
you feel like it's going to be beneficial to you in the long
run. We're on the same page there I.
Tell everybody to exhaust the free resources first before you
start investing in some of theseacademies or these workshops or
other things that are not free. So when you find your niche
area, then you can start investing some money into kind
of learning the ropes there. But yeah, or like.
(34:04):
Like a tool. Like if you feel like you really
want to go into learning and development, you probably need
to know how to use Articulate. Yeah, exactly.
However, I don't. And I'm like in a different
space. So like, I think it just depends
on like where you're at. But if you feel like a tool is
going to be beneficial, that's like a different thing than
investing in like these academies and, and all the other
(34:26):
things. Yeah.
Wow. This is a great episode, Lena.
Thank you so much for coming back on.
Let's make sure we don't do thistwo years from now.
Let's make sure we do another episode soon.
Agreed. Because things change pretty.
Fast in our industry they they change so.
Quickly, don't they? Yes.
Well, thank you so much for coming back.
On and sharing about all your experience with Canva at tech
(34:49):
guru, all the things so appreciate you and being a part
of this community. I appreciate you as well and.
All that you do, so thank you. Thanks for spending a few
minutes with. Holly, she knows your podcast
queue is packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
(35:13):
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. I want to keep the conversation
going. Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take away.
She reads every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon. Hi we're ispring an.
(35:36):
International team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Welcome back to another episode of Ed Up L&D, the show where we
talk about all things learning and development and career
transformation. Today I've got a real treat for
you, my friend and returning guest Lena Saleh.
If you know her as the Ed tech guru, you already know she's a
(00:23):
powerhouse in the education and technology space.
She's the product educator and content strategist at Canva.
She's a former teacher who's helped over 100 million
educators and students unlock their creativity and a fierce
advocate for teachers making bold career moves.
(00:45):
We first had Lena on the show over two years ago, back when
this podcast was still at Up at Tech, and so much has changed
since then for the both of us. In this episode, we dive into
life after leaving the classroomand navigating that emotional
shift, the inside scoop on what it's like working at a global
(01:05):
company like Canva, and Lena's best advice for transitioning
teachers who are ready to take the leap.
This conversation is packed withpractical tips, career
inspiration, and some real talk about letting go of guilt and
leaning into your next chapter. So whether you're a Canva
curious in the middle of a career pivot, or just here for
(01:28):
the LND inspo, you're going to get a ton out of this one.
Let's jump in. Hi, we're ispring, an
international team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
(01:49):
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
Ispring Suite is an intuitive, all in one authoring tool for
creating engaging e-learning content, and ispringlearn is an
innovative online training platform for onboarding,
upskilling, and certifying your teams.
We also provide tons of free resources for aspiring and
(02:10):
experienced e-learning professionals, conduct weekly
webinars with top industry experts, and organize annual
e-learning conferences, challenges, and championships.
We'd be happy to get to know youand pick a solution that fits
your needs best. Go to www.icepringsolutions.com
to learn more about us, downloadour resources, and connect.
(02:35):
Hello everyone and welcome to another amazing episode of Ed Up
LND. My name is Holly Owens, and I'm
your host, and I am really excited and really grateful that
Lena is here to come back to theshow after almost over 2 years.
It's been a long time. And actually, the podcast was at
(02:58):
up at Tech back then. So now it's at up L&D.
So there's been some evolution in our lives and evolution in
some of our professional professional lives.
So, Lena, welcome back to the show.
Thank you so much. I'm so happy to be here and to
be back with you on this episode.
I can't believe it's been 2 years.
(03:18):
Like how crazy is? That I know I was like, I was
thinking to myself when we were talking before, I was like, it's
been like a year because with everybody it's like a year.
And then I was like, Nope, it's been a really long time.
So a lot has changed. So why don't you tell the
audience about you, who you are,you, they probably know you from
Ed tech guru and and all the stuff you do at Canva.
So introduce yourself and tell us about it.
(03:40):
Sure. I am obviously Lena.
I work at Canva and I am a content strategist and product
educator. Basically that means that my
specific role at Canva is that we create content to activate
our users. So not just onboarding, but
basically activating our users. And so I specifically work with
(04:02):
the K12 audience because I'm a former teacher.
So so I like to be able to do that.
So that's kind of the work that I do at Canva.
And then I also do podcasting, like Holly, just bringing on
edtech founders or really focusing on teachers who are
making a transition out of the classroom.
And yeah, so that's. Just a little.
(04:23):
Short snippet about me. That's great.
And I, you know, I think it's important that you continue this
work outside. I know you have Canva and canvas
huge to everybody, but everybodyknows Canva.
But the work that you're doing, like with a tech guru and having
the podcast and bringing people on and sharing some of your
videos. I recently watched your one
about teacher transition coming out of the classroom.
(04:46):
Love that one. We'll definitely put a link to
the show notes in that. And as you know, our audience is
made-up of mostly transitioning teachers.
So we're both transition teachers.
We've both been in a space wherewe've been considering like, Oh
my gosh, I don't know if I want to do this anymore.
This was something I thought I was going to do forever.
I'm sure Canva wasn't on your bingo card for life, Amazon and
(05:07):
Yellow Dig and all the differentthings that I've been doing
weren't on my bingo card for life.
So what can you say to the transitioning teachers who are
listening right now and they're thinking like, should I or
shouldn't I leave the classroom?Like what are some things they
should consider? I think your thought is if you
have already made that, like if you've already, if you're
(05:28):
already wondering, your foot is already halfway, I think out of
the door. I think you're already you're
already there. And I think that the part that
holds us back is guilt of leaving.
And I think a lot of times there's like this, it's like bit
of mourning that we do of like, are we making the right
decision? Are we letting people down?
(05:48):
I think as a teacher, you have to think about what's best for
you and what your longevity is. I think Holly and I can both
speak to this that are I never thought that I would be in this
other side of the space. I thought I would be a teacher,
then I thought I would be an administrator and spend like a
good amount of. Time, yeah, and.
Then I thought I would be a policy change maker because to
(06:09):
change the space and education. And then ten years in, I
thought, what the heck am I doing?
I got to get out of here. I need to have an impact from
the other side. So I think there's that part
like you're, you're already thinking about it.
So I would say start that process.
Another thing I would say is, and I'm sure Holly would agree
with this, is like start auditing people around you.
(06:30):
I think you have a wealth of already resources around you.
But as an educator, we only knoweducation.
We actually don't know business terms.
We don't know anything. I didn't know what B to B was.
I know when I started that career, I had no idea what they
were talking about. BBC, which is business to
business, which means Canvas sells to Amazon, that's business
to business. And B to C is Canvas sells from
(06:53):
me like they sell the product tome.
Those are not terms that you would know as an educator and
there's nothing wrong with that.But you just, if you're really
thinking about making the transition out, you need to have
an idea about what business looks like outside of that.
So whether that's an entrepreneur in your family,
whether that's somebody who's doing accounting or who knows
(07:15):
what they're doing, but like just get an audit about what
they're doing in their lives just to spark that interest for
you. Because as educators, you do
50,000 million things and it is really hard to pinpoint what you
want to do. And I think what happens is I
always tell teachers to make this like to do like a list of
like an audit of everything thatyou do in your own life.
And what I start to see sometimes when educators do it
(07:37):
is they hone in on those negative parts of like not
getting weekdays off or not having enough time.
And that's just the reality of teaching.
No matter if you stay in teaching for 100 years or not,
you're not going to get more time.
I wish that were going to be thepossibility.
I think we can lean into like AItools and things to help lessen
that load. But I don't think your time is
ever going to be given back to you in the way that you want it
(07:57):
to be. So I think try to focus on the
positive things like writing student newsletters or you know,
the the specific things that you're doing in day-to-day.
Because when you start to do that, you can actually feel
yourself being pulled to like a specific direction.
And I think that that will help you navigate that journey.
(08:18):
The the guilt you mentioned, it's, it's there.
I mean, like the first few months and it was a long time
ago now out of teaching. Like I was coaching field hockey
too. So I was just like, I cried.
I was like, I can't believe thatI did this.
I was like, what am I thinking? And this is back when
transitioning out in the classroom wasn't a community
(08:39):
thing. This was just I was doing it by
myself. So there weren't wonderful
resources like you and I are sharing or or support
communities or even as big as LinkedIn has gotten at this
point to support us. So I was really trying to figure
it out on my own and that was difficult.
I mean, I did it, but it was very challenging and like you
(08:59):
said, and touching on like all the things that you do too with
that list, list the skills and then you can totally transfer
them into what it would be corporate or what it would be
education. And I think sometimes maybe, you
know, teachers, like you said something about the days off and
and stuff like that, like they're, oh, we're not going to
(09:20):
have a summer break. Well, I'd rather go on vacation
when people are not when I want and not just be locked into
like, you know, some of the two-month, two months, 2 month
things. And teachers do other things
during the summer. They're not just sitting back by
the pool relaxing. They're preparing for the
following year. They're doing professional
(09:40):
development. Like I coached sports, so I had
to go back earlier than everybody else.
So when you really think about it, it's not that much
difference in the terms of the time that you're off.
And some companies offer unlimited PTO.
So a lot of them are are going towards that and there's
conversations about like a four day work week.
(10:00):
So I think definitely that that is changing too.
But you really the emotional piece of is something that you
have to deal with. Yeah, I think, I think as
teachers, your identity is tied up into that.
Like you are a teacher, right? That is your, that is your full
identity. Like you could be a mom, you
could be a coach, you could be all those things, but what you
(10:22):
are at your heart is a teacher. And I think when you make the
transition, it's kind of that identity shift of like, who am
I? What, what would I do?
What? Would I do without it the?
World could I do. I know I don't want to do this
anymore. No idea.
Yeah, You know, yeah. So.
I think those are all up and down emotions, and I think it's
safe to feel that space, to knowthat everyone else is feeling
(10:43):
that exact same space when they think about transitioning.
So give yourself the space to feel that and to mourn because
it is a bit of mourning. But I promise you, I'm sure
Holly can speak to this. I can speak to this.
I feel like I have a way bigger impact now against students
lives than I ever would have in the classroom.
Whether that's talking to founders of startup companies,
whether that's guiding them on, you know, how their product can
(11:07):
be better or not be better. But bringing that teacher lens
lends itself into way more pathways than like a regular
person bring. You have such a knowledge base,
Yeah. It's such a small community when
you think about teaching, and then when you get to work with,
like you said, different companies or different people
like across the world and network with people across the
(11:28):
world, that just opens up endless possibilities and
opportunities for you. Absolutely, yeah.
And I think about me at Canva and working there and my role
specifically is actually what I.Was just you're so you know,
we're like on the same wave likebecause I was just about to say
tell us about Canva because everybody is like looking to
Canva like I should work at Canva.
That's a great first role out ofteaching or what you know.
(11:51):
Yeah, you go ahead. So when I think about that and I
just think about we just crossedour 100 million teacher students
and teachers using Kampa, which is kind of incredible to think
about. The products started like really
at launch at the end of 2019, but really when teacher got in
teacher's hands, it was really 2020.
(12:12):
And if you think about five years, that's 100 million people
all across the globe using it, Ithink is really great.
But the base of the work that I used to do, I used to create all
of the workshops and resources that, like our facilitators or
community or whatever, would go and teach other teachers how to
use the product and how to. Train the trainer.
(12:33):
Yeah, basically like that bit ofpeace.
And I think about that and I always think about, you know,
looking working with like our sales team, which is they're,
they're called district engagement advocates and they're
really like. I like that name.
That's fancy. Yeah, it is fancy, right?
So they all the all the sales rules they can have very like
(12:53):
fancy. But when I think about, I think
about that and I think about theworkshops that I've created and
how art districts who have been trained on these workshops have
higher monthly active users. So we have more users using it
every single month. Of the people who have been who
have used these workshops, essentially, I think that's
(13:14):
pretty cool because I think about how I just only touched
100 kids and now we're thinking about million, like millions.
I could have never done that if I stayed in the classroom.
So I think that's something really special about that.
And now my role has shifted awayfrom just doing workshops.
And now we've relaunched design School, which is like all of our
(13:34):
like education type thing. So if you're ever looking, it's
canva.com/design School, One word.
But the we have all these resources there.
And so now we've started creating courses.
So I just created my first course called Transform Your
Classroom with Canva Co teachingteachers how to use that.
And then I'm currently writing another one that will launch.
(13:55):
Well, we're working. On it will launch soon.
Yeah, watch. Good.
And so I'm just like trying my hand at that.
But I think, and I'm sure Holly could speak this too, but I've
never actually written courses like this where I'm writing like
full on scripting and screen recording.
So I've had to stretch myself innew ways.
So I think being a teacher has helped me be more adaptable and
(14:18):
flexible to learning new things.I think if I weren't a teacher,
I would be, I'd be screwed to behonest with you.
Like I think it would be really to be able to make that
maneuver. So as teachers who are listening
to this, know that you will change roles often, whether it's
you just staying in the same type of role, but the work that
(14:39):
you do can change based on the company's goals and what they're
thinking. So you'll you always need to
continuously be upscaling. Yes, 100%.
And like we're sitting here doing a video podcast like you
have to be comfortable with these sorts of things now in
this world with AI and virtual and digital and all the
different things that are occurring.
(15:01):
And first of all, I, I love Canva.
I could never do, I can't do anything without Canva.
As far as the podcast is concerned, it's a great product.
And you know, as far as like some of the things that you
curate, I saw some of your videos for Cameron, they're
getting like 10,000 plus downloads.
That's pretty impressive. And it just kind of like it
(15:24):
exploded. And I'm sure that the pandemic
helped accelerate that. But beyond that, the product's
so intuitive and you can do different things and then adding
in the AI stuff and design school and it's like it's, you
are thinking what the customer needs before they think they
need it. So you're basically future
proofing the product. It's a little marketing speak
(15:46):
for you so that you can continueto, to grow things.
Like it just doesn't, it doesn'tstay here as this, it grows as
this and it keeps, it keeps growing and it keeps offering
opportunities for people. So I love that about Canva.
I think I think it's great. So what's it, what's it like
working at like Canva, like a large company that has access to
(16:08):
so many resources and all the different things.
Sometimes the audience is like, my dream job is to, I'm sure
Canva's on the list. So what's it like working for a
company like that? I'm going to take a step back
before I answer that part of thequestion.
I worked at a small startup before right out of the
(16:30):
classroom and there were 13 people.
It was and they were based in Israel and I was the only US
based person I worked at. They called Code Monkey.
Oh God, I remember Code Monkey. I've talked to their owner
before. Yeah, go ahead.
And so I worked there for 3 1/2 years.
And I would say for me, I felt that was a better natural
(16:50):
transition for me, moving out ofthe classroom to a much slower,
smaller company where I could have a lot of influence.
And I would say from moving fromCode Monkey to Canva, it was a
big transition for me because I went from working with 13
people. Like 13,000.
You know, on sort of the same time zone ish to working to a
(17:10):
global company where there is now I think we almost crossed
6000 employees now and we have we have offices now pretty much
around the world and we touch somany people around the world.
So I'd say Canva kind of operates as like mini startups
within the big organization. And so each one kind of has like
its own mini startup, but I would say it's fast and slow at
(17:34):
the same time where when something's coming, you got all
hands are on deck and we gotta go right now.
There is no time to think. You just gotta go.
And then there's other moments where you kind of have a lot of
decision makers attached to it and a lot of eyes and a lot of
stakeholders are involved. So what it's like working at
(17:54):
Canva, it's amazing. There's, I don't think there's
not one person in any room that I've ever been in that is not
nice and like kind, but also extremely talented, like
everyone around you. It's easy to get imposter
syndrome still 3 1/2 years laterinto people working with these
people. They come from Google and
Twitter and like, you know, Airbnb and they've been the
(18:14):
heads of companies and they've been heads of their own, like
startups. And then they come and they work
alongside me. And sometimes I think, am I in
this room? Is this the right Rd. for me to
be in? And I have to realize all these
accomplishments along the way. So like I am in the right space.
But I think I love working at Canva and I love that, you know,
they listen to everyone and you know, the products are really
(18:38):
founded by what people want, I think, but trying to keep it
easy. And I think that's the, there's
like a delicate balance between that because Canva is, I don't
know, it has so many bells and whistles that a lot of people
don't know how to use and navigate.
And our job as product educatorsis to learn the product quickly
(18:58):
and then figure out how to translate to the audience.
That's going to make it easy enough.
Like we just had a back to school webinar yesterday and it
was like the highest amount of people.
I think we had like 11,000 like attendees over the different
time zones. And it's crazy.
And like, part of my work is developed like I lead those
webinars and, and, you know, help write the strategy and
(19:19):
things for those. But it's interesting because you
have people that are coming in, you know, educators and
educators don't have time. So how do we tell the story in
the right way that's going to speak to educators?
And if I wasn't a teacher, I would never be able to do that,
right? Like I, you could people come
in, trust me, people come in andtry to tell the story.
And we have to like gut check them and be like, hey.
Yeah. There's are not actually going
(19:42):
to appreciate how you're trying to do this at like such a high
level. So we kind of have to really
take it back because educators don't have time.
So how do you tell the story andbalance those like?
Three. You know those those.
Lines between it and probably you learn that at Amazon, right,
like we are having balance so many different stakeholders from
marketing to sales and everyone has an opinion and everyone has
(20:05):
a voice and you have to figure out how to drown up the noise.
Yeah I definitely 100% agree. Like even though Canva is for
education, it is run like a corporation.
It is not run like you're in a teaching space necessarily.
So you have to, it is as it is acorporate environment just like
Amazon, even though we're working in the learning and
(20:26):
development state space within Amazon pharmacy, like you said,
different stakeholders, like people higher up and, and other
places beyond pharmacy, we're, you know, talking to us or we're
doing different like marketing things for them.
And I mean, as far as I'm concerned, L&D is part marketing
too, because you're doing that with the strategy and, and your
(20:48):
workshops and your webinars and all the things that you offer.
So 100% you have to know how to function being in your own
classroom where you control everything to then stepping
outside where the control and the pivots are endless like
T-shirts. I loved it.
I could sit down, here are my lessons Monday through Friday
(21:09):
set. I know that's there may be a
little bit of tweaking throughout the week, but not
anything compared to like a corporate environment where your
priority on Monday could be changed by Tuesday because
somebody needs something and it's on fire or something like
that. Yeah, and I think that's the
hard part sometimes. Like I'm a perfectionist and I
(21:29):
like things to be. Really.
Are you? Really.
And. We're friends, so she knows.
I know, yeah. My husband always has to remind
me, you know, done is better than perfect.
And I really struggle. I really struggle with that.
And I also sometimes struggle just like asking for help.
Like even if I'm underwater, I think, oh, I'm a teacher.
(21:50):
I gotta carry all this. And I have to be reminded that I
need to lean and on other people.
But yeah, the pivots come quick.Like you have a full thing,
you've done so much work, and then somebody comes and like,
actually, we realigned our strategy.
We got to go a different direction.
So I think that's where a teacher's mindset comes in.
It's like, okay, I've had lessons that I've planned to a
(22:11):
teen. They're so beautiful.
They're the beautifulest things I've ever created.
And then you get to the studentsand they suck, right?
Like it does not work. They do not care what you're
saying. The words that you're saying are
horrible. They don't even relate to what
you're saying. It's not as beautifully planned
as you thought. And so I think that's what I
like to think about as like a startup, as like that lesson
that like you planned, it's so good, so good.
(22:32):
And then you realize that did not hit.
We. Got to go back to the drawing
board and I got to do it right now without thinking about it
and figure out how I can get this across the line quickly.
But well, and sometimes those are your best lessons you've
ever created, right? Are the actual ones where you've
pivoted quickly. I think teachers like what
you're saying with some of the other stuff like where you have
(22:55):
to simplify it down to accommodate, like they're they
don't have a lot of time. They don't there's you need to,
it needs to be actionable quickly.
Like teachers are great at taking very complex situations
or complex topics and breaking them down into simple strategies
or simple ways. I love that about my brain.
It's like I can take something so complex and I can just break
(23:16):
it down into pieces so that they're digestible, you know,
doing all the scaffolding, whatever.
I still use all that stuff in mycurrent role.
So I love that about teachers. Yeah.
And I'd say, you know, to your point about like that part, I
think that's why teachers are really good in a variety of like
role sets, because we can break down complex things into simple
(23:38):
thoughts. And I think, you know, sometimes
people get really big jargon words, you know, and then they
go in like, even if you're selling a product, if I come to
the table and I'm talking to someone who's not well versed in
what I'm talking about and I'm speaking really big jargon
words, they're gonna look at youlike, what do you, what are you
saying? Get out of this.
(23:59):
Room like, I don't know why you're in here with me.
And as a teacher, we can navigate quickly and be like,
OK, I actually need to do ABC. And you know, I've seen teachers
create some even like in our sales teams or marketing teams
or wherever you go. I see teachers take these like
really big complex things and break it down and think like,
OK, what does the end user want and how do we figure out how we
(24:21):
tell this story in the right way?
And I think that's what makes teachers so great at any role
that they decide to do, but specifically in L&D, because
when you're teaching something like pharmacy, pharmaceutical
stuff, that's like big jargon. So very jargon heavy, lots of
acronyms. They can't just pick it up and
be like, oh, this is such a goodread.
Like, we're not reading college level textbooks.
(24:42):
Nobody has time to decipher and like, you know, figure it out.
They want something that's easy,digestible and engaging for them
to understand. And that's like where teachers
play the biggest. Role, I think yeah, 100% Oh my
gosh, this is such a great episode for features.
We always we always get on this topic and I love it.
I want you to talk a little bit about at Tech Guru and tell how
(25:04):
you started that and you know what you love about that
position and all the things you're doing there so the
audience can follow you and if they don't know already.
About that, yeah. Thanks, Holly.
I appreciate that. I started that.
I started, I've always been like, you know, delivered
workshops and like those kinds of things to like teachers and
(25:25):
things. But what I realized is I had
moved from Colorado, where I'm from, to Austin to a new place.
And I just realized that, you know, I started it right around
the pandemic time. I actually started before the
pandemic happened. I just like, you know, it just
so happened. But during that time, you know,
we obviously saw that networks kind of dissolved in like your
regular area and that you could have a wider reach.
(25:49):
Like, you know, Holly and I bothhave found on LinkedIn by being
able to share my thoughts. And so I just started, I first
just started sharing my thoughtson LinkedIn and then I started
getting messages like, Hey, how are you doing this?
Hey, how are you, you know, whatever.
And I was also at the time at Code Monkey doing like some
consulting for like some Ed techcompanies.
I'm like watching products and just, you know, all sorts of
(26:10):
things that I've kind of learnedfrom the classroom.
And I just started only first just talking about Ed tech and
education trends and like how how teachers really need to be
evolving and how we can support them.
And then obviously switch to like COVID stuff and all of that
kind of stuff. And then?
Founders started wanting to likecome on and share their stories
and I was like, all right, great.
And then also in the process, I started getting a lot of
(26:33):
questions about like, how do youleave the classroom?
How does this happen? It started first just like 1
message and then it turned into hundreds.
And I was like, you know what? I'm not going to have any more
coffee chats. I can't, I don't have the time I
could pass through this anymore.So I'm actually just going to
craft this narrative through like YouTube.
And I remember the first time I ever recorded that my husband
was out of town and I just used his space because he also does
(26:54):
in a way different industry thanwe do.
And I just sat there. I probably recorded 45 times.
It probably took me 5 hours to record 1 video.
And I edited it, way over edited.
And I put it up and I couldn't sleep the whole night.
Oh no. The first video, nobody did, you
know, it's fine, you know, And then over time, you just like
get better at the reps But I think I just, I really just want
(27:17):
to try to capture a story of both how we support teachers in
the classroom and how we supportthem outside.
Because, you know, I just had Ally Parrish on which episodes
going live here soon about how ateacher.
Yeah. And just like how she figured
all of that out. But, you know, I think it's just
(27:41):
something you just like have to do is kind of like start
building like a personal brand in that like way.
But I. But I just want to empower
educators. And, you know, I, I also got
nasty messages like, why are youforcing people to leave?
Like, what are you doing? So like, I always wanted to put
like a disclaimer and I'm like, you know, teacher's been
thinking about this for hundredsof years.
This is. They've been looking for an out
for a while. Yeah.
And when we left and when you transitioned, like there wasn't
(28:02):
any resources. There was like Lincoln was not
what LinkedIn is today. You can find everything you did
without ever paying for like a course or figure it out.
Not at that time. There was nothing like nobody
could really. There was not anything really
available for you as, like, a transitioning educator.
So I just wanted to give teachers a place where they
could feel empowered to, like, make a decision on their own,
(28:23):
whichever way they decided to go.
Yeah. I love that and I I love the
supportive community that you have on LinkedIn and all the
things that you share. I think your videos are great.
Stop being a perfect perfectionist because I've
watched many of them. I stopped being such a
perfectionist. Your videos are great.
So, you know, and wrapping up the episode because I knew you
and I could talk a lot about a lot of different things we like
(28:44):
to give the audience, especiallytransitioning teachers, crew
like 3 actionable pieces or tipsor advice that they could think
about and do right now if they're thinking about leaving
the classroom. So I'd love to hear your
perspective on that as an expertin doing it yourself.
And I just looked up the year LinkedIn was founded as 2002.
Shoot off for a while. It didn't.
(29:06):
It wasn't great in like 2002. No, Yeah, no.
It was, yeah. It definitely wasn't that.
But like, I think right around Ijust like, you know, my husband
is has been like a big contributor to like helping.
He's kind of like my business coach.
Oh, I love him. He.
Like connect with whoever. Cuz like, you know, I started
going to like Ed tech events andstuff like just connect with
(29:27):
them and just send them a message and just say like, hey,
how's this going? And then that's kind of how it
started building. I just was like cold outreach,
the scariest thing I've ever done.
But so that's one piece of advice.
Building your number. Yeah.
Cold outreach. Don't be afraid to don't be
afraid to say hi. I mean, this community is fun.
That's what I Yeah, this community is very giving and and
willing to point you in the right direction.
(29:49):
Yeah, I would say. My sister actually called me.
She's a high school teacher and she was asking me what do I do?
And I've had a countless of these conversations, obviously
this summer, and I said this at the beginning and I'll say it
again here, you have to audit your life.
And what I mean by audit your life is, I mean, write down all
the things that you do in a day.And I mean, cleaning the house,
(30:10):
it could be organizing your tripto Europe.
I don't know. It could be anything that you're
doing. And then everything that you do
within like your school, not maybe day, but like everything
that you're responsible for throughout your role, take those
and rate them like in a neutral,you know, like dislike category.
Because if you're really thinking about leaving the
(30:31):
classroom, you've got to have anidea and strategy of where
you're going to go. And the only way that you can do
that is by figuring out the things that you like.
And it's so hard to figure that out.
It's very, very challenging. I have to sometimes gut check
myself and do this to myself often and then I say audit your
network and start like reaching out and networking.
Get on LinkedIn. Your does not need to be
(30:52):
perfect. Just put in a couple of details.
Make sure you have a profile picture because nobody's gonna
talk to you without a profile picture.
We think you're a bot. And yeah, it's just just do it.
Just put a profile picture and try to keep it like, like a
professional headshot. You know, you don't have to do
anything like fancy. Yep.
OK, Just like take your head, remove the background on Canva,
put like a cool, fun background up there and then upload it into
(31:15):
LinkedIn. Like you don't need to get too
fancy with yourself. And then just start reaching out
to people whose roles you might be interested in.
And don't be asking us for jobs.OK?
Don't to review your resume. That right?
Away like I know. I know I did that a lot.
I know you were thinking if I. Know, trust me, I think it's, I
(31:35):
think it's amazing, but I need to know you first before I can
put in a referral. And in fact, Campbell will not
take it unless you have a personal referral and you can
actually speak to how you know this person and why they would
be a good fit. So it's, it's actually almost
impossible for us to actually doreferrals unless we have like a
really good personal connection with you.
(31:56):
But just like start connecting and just like being like, hey, I
see you work in marketing at blah, blah, blah.
I would love to just hear what aday in the life looks like for
you and just just shoot your shot that way.
I think those are like, those are like the things that I think
are really important and networking goes a really,
really, really, really long way.And then my last tip is when you
(32:17):
get on LinkedIn, you can obviously share your journey,
but try to not over share too much because at the end of the
day, you're still teaching and you're still in a contract with
somebody. So when you're posting like,
hey, I'm searching for ABC job, but I'm still in the classroom,
they could come and look at that.
(32:38):
They're probably not going to, but you could technically, it's
possible that they could be deciding like, hey, you're not a
good fit for us and they could just let you go.
And you don't want to have that as like your back, delicate at
first. Yeah, just try to keep.
It like professional and fun andlike easy and there are like so.
Many resources. And I was just going to say, I
(32:58):
think, but there are so many resources out there following
Holly, following so many people on LinkedIn, There's so much
good information there. You don't feel like you need to
post. You can just utilize the
resources that they have and youknow, leverage that without
paying for anything first. Not pay for anything.
Oh my gosh, this is the best. Piece of advice that you're
(33:21):
ready. For right, because people you
can just dump so much. It's just time is money and
money is time. So think about that when you're
like doing something and if something is not you're not sure
about it, you think you should pay for it, don't.
There's so much resources out there for free YouTube videos,
resources on LinkedIn, people share free PDFs, there's so much
stuff. You do not need to pay unless
(33:43):
you feel like it's going to be beneficial to you in the long
run. We're on the same page there I.
Tell everybody to exhaust the free resources first before you
start investing in some of theseacademies or these workshops or
other things that are not free. So when you find your niche
area, then you can start investing some money into kind
of learning the ropes there. But yeah, or like.
(34:04):
Like a tool. Like if you feel like you really
want to go into learning and development, you probably need
to know how to use Articulate. Yeah, exactly.
However, I don't. And I'm like in a different
space. So like, I think it just depends
on like where you're at. But if you feel like a tool is
going to be beneficial, that's like a different thing than
investing in like these academies and, and all the other
(34:26):
things. Yeah.
Wow. This is a great episode, Lena.
Thank you so much for coming back on.
Let's make sure we don't do thistwo years from now.
Let's make sure we do another episode soon.
Agreed. Because things change pretty.
Fast in our industry they they change so.
Quickly, don't they? Yes.
Well, thank you so much for coming back.
On and sharing about all your experience with Canva at tech
(34:49):
guru, all the things so appreciate you and being a part
of this community. I appreciate you as well and.
All that you do, so thank you. Thanks for spending a few
minutes with. Holly, she knows your podcast
queue is packed. If today's episode sparked an
idea or gave you that extra nudge of confidence, tap, follow
or subscribe in your favorite app so you never miss an episode
(35:13):
of Ed Up L&D. Dropping a quick rating or
review helps more educators and learning pros discover the show,
too. I want to keep the conversation
going. Connect with Holly on LinkedIn
and share your biggest take away.
She reads every message. Until next time, keep learning,
keep leading, and keep believingin your own story.
Talk soon. Hi we're ispring an.
(35:36):
International team of e-learningenthusiasts who help more than
60,000 clients across the globe succeed with better online
learning. Our two flagship solutions are
ispring Suite and ispring Learn LMS.
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