March 16, 2026 • 41 mins
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What if the deal you thought would free you was actually holding you back?
In this episode, I sit down with Dr. Brenda Dintiman, a dermatologist and founder of Utopia Wellness, who sold her practice to private equity — and when it didn't go as promised, made the bold decision to start all over again. She rebuilt from the ground up, crossed seven figures in her private practice, and is now expanding into the wellness and metabolic health space.
She shares the mindset that made it possible, the tangible moves that drove revenue, and why she's more excited about what's ahead than anything she's already built.
Tune in and get inspired!
Key Takeaways
- 00:00 Fear of not trying beats fear of failing
- 01:55 Why Dr. Brenda Dintiman left private equity and started over
- 04:25 The missing piece: joining a business-minded community
- 07:00 Shifting from silenced to owning your voice as a leader
- 08:55 Celebrating wins as a driver of mindset change
- 13:45 Entrepreneurship creates more time freedom, not less
- 16:00 How Dr. Brenda Dintiman crossed the seven-figure mark
- 19:45 Overcoming physician resistance to pricing and collections
- 21:55 Resilience in action: fixing problems instead of spiraling
- 24:05 Why regret of inaction outweighs fear of failure
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- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DrUnachukwu?sub_confirmation=1
Follow Dr. Brenda Dintiman:
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dermutopiadermatologist/
- Website: https://dermutopia.com/
EntreMD is a podcast dedicated to all physicians who want to venture into entrepreneurship, grow their personal brands, and build wealth while doing what they love.
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Additional Resources:
- Learn more about my 12-month program.
- Interested in 1-on-1 coaching? Apply here.
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When you are ready to work with us, here are three ways:
- The Profitable Private Practice Movement - If you want to build a thriving private practice that serves a lot of patients, while creating time and financial freedom for you, come join us here.
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- EntreMD Business School Scale - This is our high-level mastermind for physicians who have crossed the seven figure milestone and want to build their businesses to be well oiled machines that can run without them.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Is it a fear?
(00:00):
Yes, of course it's fear.
Will I stay well?
Will we be able to do it?
But in my brain, I'm not afraidof it failing.
I'm afraid of not doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Have you always been like that?
No.
Hi Doc.
Welcome to the OnTram D podcast,where it's all about helping
amazing physicians just like youembrace entrepreneurship so you
can have the freedom to livelife and practice medicine on
your terms.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mnet.
(00:30):
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the OnTramDPodcast, especially to this
series where we're having what Icall eight-figure physician CEO
conversations because we'retalking to doctors who have
crossed the seven-figure mark intheir businesses and they're
still growing.
So this is going to be afantastic episode.
Super pumped to have Dr.
Brenda Dintman here.
She's going to introduce herselfin a second, but I want to say a
(00:53):
big thank you to you, Dr.
Brenda, for coming on the showand being willing to share your
story because it is stories likethis that will help us change
the narrative for physicianseverywhere.
So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Thank you.
It's my pleasure.
I'm Dr.
Brenda Dinnerman and I've beenpracticing for over 35 years,
but I had a new practice startabout uh five years ago.
So I'm excited to share with youabout dermatopia wellness and
the growth that I've achievedthrough entree and bee business.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
That is so awesome.
Like you've had a really longcareer.
And I think one of the things Iwill applaud you for is, you
know, many people at your stagewill say, you know, I'm in
retirement mode, don'tnecessarily want to grow, don't
necessarily want to learn newthings, but you're somebody who,
you know, really has a growthmindset.
And for someone who's like 30 or40, yes, you may have a growth
(01:44):
mindset, but to have practicedfor that long and you're still
looking at, you know,innovation, evolution, and all
of those things, it's really,really so fun to see.
So let's talk about right beforeyou joined the entrepreneurial
business school, right?
At that stage, at that point,you had already been practicing
for a long time.
You'd been in private practice.
What was it that was going onthat made you say something
(02:07):
needs to change?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
The story was that I sold my practice, my partner and
I did, to private equity.
And we thought we were relievingourselves of a lot of
responsibilities, HR, marketing,all the things that doctors
complain about that they can'tdo.
And the story just wasn't real.
And so we won't go into the longstory what happened, but after
(02:29):
going through mediation, forabout 10 months, I decided to
start all over and to kind ofget rid of that mindset that
you're too old to start over,because you're never too old to
start something new.
I'm a forever learner, alwayslearning is my hashtag.
And so I started again first,just you know, subletting very
(02:49):
tenuously, and then COVID hit.
So I was so grateful that I hadnot signed a lease that I just
put my toe in.
And then when we came out ofCOVID, still subletting, and in
21 decided to get my own space.
And that's when I met Dr.
Karen Kaufman, a colleague in mycommunity, who said, Hey, this
is the way I'm doing things.
(03:11):
Have you considered this?
And I said, Well, I want to knowmore.
You just tell me.
And she said, Well, you need tobe in Entre MD business.
And that's how I got listeningand introduced to you, Dr.
Irna.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Well, big shout out to Dr.
Kaufman, who is uh ambassadorfor the Entre MD Business
School.
What was it that was the finalstraw or maybe final decision or
the thing that happened thatmade you say, okay, I've done
the private practice, we builtit up, we sold it to private
equity.
This is not quite going the wayI want it to go, and I'm gonna
start over because that's apretty big decision, right?
(03:42):
Like, especially for someonewho's been there, done that, and
has a few t-shirts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Yeah, so it was huge.
You know, people said, why don'tyou just go volunteer?
Why don't you just go onvacation?
Well, you can only do that for amonth or so.
And the truth is that I stillhad a lot to give.
I had a lot of dedication and Iwanted to give to the community,
to my patients.
And I wanted to do itdifferently this time.
I had already started mypractice once after working with
(04:07):
someone about 25 years before.
I'd had a partner, I'd grownbig, I thought I had done the
right thing.
Carrot is kind of dangled, youwon't have to worry about these
things.
It's not true most of the time.
So it was very scary to startagain, especially not being able
to call out and reach out topatients who I'd known for 20
years.
(04:27):
I felt like I'd left a familybehind.
But little by little they cameback.
And the things that really wereso helpful was starting to be
part of a community that had adifferent mindset.
Like, let's use technology,let's not be afraid of social
media, let's do it differentlythis time.
And I'll never forget the veryfirst call I was on with Dr.
(04:49):
Tamar Beckford.
She said, Okay, here's theproject for today, and I'll be
back in 40 minutes.
And when you come back, you needto be have asked to be on 10
podcasts.
And I was like, who the heckwants to be on a podcast?
And what do I need that for?
And little did I know.
Little did I know.
When you think about before youmet Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
Kaufman and before you were introduced to Entre MD,
what are some of the things thatyou had tried to do to get the
results you wanted to get, butthey didn't quite work out the
way you expected they would?
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
Yeah, it's hard because I've always been a
community person, even back inthe 90s when there was only
listservs.
I was part of an internationalonline community and then a part
of a younger Facebook communityin the dermatology world.
The difference was I had neverbeen part of a business
community.
I had had my consultants, myteam, I had an attorney, I still
(05:46):
do an accountant, I had thatteam, but I didn't have a team
of physicians and people thatwere like-minded trying to grow,
trying to be innovative, tryingto just do it differently in
spite of what the world orsociety or medicine tells you.
And that's what really just drewme to the community, the your
(06:06):
podcast, your view.
It was just super intriguingbecause before that, in
medicine, we were told youshouldn't market, you shouldn't
have to.
You just show up to an event andyou're gonna be part of the
hospital and someone's gonnaintroduce you, and you insurance
will send you patients.
But all that has changed and wewant it to change.
So we want to be part of thechange.
(06:27):
And I think that's what drew methe most to this group.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Watching you do what you do with people, you know, I
see it as a gift because I hadto work to even be able to do
that in any kind of way.
You were in that position where,okay, I'm I'm quote unquote
starting over, which you weren'treally, you hadn't been part of
a community and all of that.
Contrast that with where we arenow.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
The community and the communication we've had in
our weekly calls has reinforcedthings that maybe inside I knew,
like how important a team was,or how important it was to be
resilient and keep going.
But I have this voice in theback of my head all the time,
whether it's yours or one of ourclassmates, and it'll say, like,
(07:10):
keep going, just keep going.
Today you're having a bad day,or today the you know, the
social media got messed up, ortoday, you know, three patients
didn't show up.
But the concept that it's alwaysworking.
And I think that we need that asphysicians because we're so
quick to emphasize what's wrongand what we haven't done enough
of.
Also, the concept of let'scelebrate, let's celebrate our
(07:32):
wins every single week.
You know that I couldn't wait toget on and I had to hold myself
back because in the past thatwas called bragging.
And I was raised that that wasalmost like false humility, that
you're just supposed to act likeyou're not doing well and you're
not working hard.
And I've tried to pass on to myteam that everything they do
(07:53):
when we're working together andwe serve a patient, we serve and
we earn, we don't just serve,that we are growing together as
a team and that they're part ofsomething bigger.
It's easier for me to callmyself a visionary now.
It's easier for me to callmyself a leader of a team.
It's easier for me to say, myvoice needs to be heard.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
I like all of that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
I like all of that.
But I just pause and let thatsink in because we think our
voice needs to be quiet, ormaybe our voice is being quieted
by people, by an association, bya group, by a hospital, by the
world.
But our voice needs to be heard,and I think we need to know
what's inside integrity, ourvision to help others, and to do
(08:39):
it in a different way.
And that's where I think you'vebeen guiding us, Dr.
You and everybody else in thiscommunity.
It's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Those are some really strong words.
I'm a visionary, right?
I lead a team.
That's a beautifultransformation.
And somebody may hear that andthey're like, what's the win,
right?
Because we understand verydeeply that is the internal
wins, the intangible wins, thatcreate the tangible wins, right?
We celebrate a lot of mindsetwins because we understand
(09:08):
that's what sets the stage.
Nothing really changes untilthat changes.
What are some of the things,some of the tangible wins, if
you will, that over these lastfew years you created in your
practice?
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Definitely learning to do social media and not being
afraid of it and realizing thatthere's actually kind of joy in
it because you're even if itdoesn't directly relate to X
number of patients coming, it'sa feeling that you're putting
your voice out there.
And I think as this youngerteam, they like it.
(09:41):
You know, they like feeling likethey're affecting the world
also.
I think the second thing is thatthe patients know.
They know that I'm in a businessschool.
They're intrigued by it.
They know that it means that I'mfocusing on things that are to
help them.
And we talk about it.
I talk about that I use AI toresearch research things.
I talk about that I reach out tomy colleagues, that I'm not
(10:03):
alone, that I'm gonna researchfor them on their behalf.
And so it's just a differentfeeling than transactional
medicine.
It's really like getting peopleto where they need to be and
knowing that they're unique,that they're being seen.
So that I think that's where mypractice has gone.
I've always felt that way.
I've always wanted to have thisindividualized approach and know
(10:25):
the patient, but now I feel likeI'm allowed to do it because
it's it's my baby, it's myworld, and I have a whole group
of people that are cheering meon.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
And you know how to build a system to make it work.
You can dream and then you makeyour dream your reality.
The second part of the questionI was gonna ask was, and what
has becoming this version ofentrepreneur made possible for
you in your personal life?
And I ask that because, youknow, we always talk about the
dream business and the dreamlife.
(10:56):
We do not have any interest inbuilding businesses that will
cost us our lives or ourfamilies or stuff like that.
We want to win all around.
So what has that made possiblefor you?
SPEAKER_00 (11:05):
It makes it possible for you to choose when you want
to do things, who you want to bewith.
You know, if my daughter, if myson, if my husband, if my friend
needs me, I'm in charge of thatschedule.
And I have control over takingvacation when I want to.
And the vacation time hasincreased, not decreased since
(11:27):
I've been working as anentrepreneur again.
And part of that's efficiency,but not always that.
Part of it's choice.
I'm gonna choose to do itbecause it's one of my values.
And then I'm gonna make up forit later.
I've always been a work hard,play hard person.
So that's not so unique, didtake off time.
I would say the struggle is inmaking sure you're not thinking
(11:48):
about it all the time, 24 hoursa day, that you are starting
trying to create balance.
It's also helped my marriagebecause it stressed the marriage
at times because of theintensity that it can draw,
which you want to do more andmore and more and more, but also
the depth of the conversations.
My husband is also abusinessman, he's not in
medicine.
As Dr.
Una knows, he read these bookslong before I did.
(12:11):
Some of them he's read two andthree times.
But now we'll sit and have veryinteresting conversations about
books like Eat That Frog orother really great business
books.
And so it's intriguing.
My children now will both say,hey, I realize we're different
than our other cousins.
I think we're entrepreneurs.
(12:32):
That's a really interestingthing when you have your
children saying that.
It has an effect on a lot ofaspects of your life.
And I think the most importantthing is the mindset work.
When something is going awry,it's so easy for me to say to
them, you've done hard thingsbefore.
I know it doesn't seem likeyou're getting anywhere, but the
snowball is coming.
(12:54):
Progress, not perfection.
So many phrases that I think weall need to hear right now
because there's a lot of stress,adversity.
A lot of younger people have alot of anxiety, and they don't
really understand how we gotwhere we are.
They think we just woke up oneday like this.
So I think that those things arevery helpful.
They lead to more meaningfulconversations with patients,
(13:15):
with friends, and with my ownchildren.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
That's amazing.
Touched your marriage, touchedyour parenting, right?
And I'm sure, and touched yourability to take time off.
And a lot of times, these arethe things that actually stop
people from becomingentrepreneurs because they think
it will take too much time, itwill take too much effort, it
will take too much money and allof that.
But here we are.
(13:38):
And for you, it's actuallycreating that, not the other way
around.
That is excellent.
What would you say to somebodywho, and they may not be
starting, they may be at a stagein their business where let's
say, you know, they've growntheir practice, they are
500,000, they have anopportunity to take another
leap, but they're like, man, ittook me so much work to get
(14:00):
here.
It will take me too much work toget there, and they just hold
back, even though they do wantto grow.
Like, what would you say to thatdoctor?
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
It's always fear.
It's fear of failure, it's fearthat it maybe it'll be worse or
they'll be uncomfortable.
And I think that's the otherthing you've taught us to live
in the discomfort.
And also I would say to them,you need to look at what you're
doing that you can let go, youcan delegate, you can give to
someone else.
So you can focus on the 20%.
You can focus on what the thingsthat only you can do to make
(14:30):
your practice great.
It totally is a leap of faith tokeep going.
But it does help to be inspiredby others.
I was looking back at posts fromthree years ago and simple
things that I didn't know how todo.
And now I'm like, I know how todo that.
I can teach you, I can mentoryou, I can show you.
So I think the concept of notonly doing for yourself, but
(14:53):
because you're leading peoplearound you is what keeps me
going.
And I think we owe it to themedical community to be the
leaders.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
We owe it to the medical community to be the
leaders.
You're speaking my language allover the place.
I love it.
Right.
And, you know, you bring up agreat point.
Our personal development is notonly about us, right?
Because we get to lead otherpeople, whether that's our team,
whether we lead by example, orwe're leading the physician
community to say these are thethings that are possible.
(15:24):
There's such a desperate needfor leaders now.
And so our evolution is one ofthe best gifts we can give our
families, our communities, ourindustries.
And I just invite you to go forit.
Let's switch gears a little bithere.
So we celebrated you at the wasit the end of last year or the
beginning of this year orsomewhere, because you crossed
your seven-finger mark in yourprivate practice, which is huge.
(15:48):
So excited.
So for you, when you think aboutthat milestone, what do you
think are the things that madethat possible for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Definitely having the goal.
You have to have the goal.
I know that some people willhave a double and triple goal,
but I think I've always been aperson that's looked at my
profit and loss very often, veryregularly.
And you've heard me say, I'm notafraid of the numbers.
That's a common thing physicianswill say, and I think they have
to get over that.
And numbers are just numbers,they're just data, and they're
(16:19):
ways that sometimes your brainthinks you're not doing well and
you're actually doing 10% or 20%better.
So I think looking at thenumbers often, trying to be
consistent about noticingwhether there were ebbs, there's
going to be ebbs and flows inyour year, whether it's
something that's going on withthe weather, the health of the
(16:39):
people around you.
We've been through it now withCOVID, but the consistency of
reaching back out to patientsthat maybe have canceled, say
they were sick or there was asnowstorm.
So I taught my team toconsistently re-market and
re-reach out to the patients,which kept the funnel of the
patients going and also kept theconsistency of the care.
(17:00):
So that was really important tous.
It was super important for me towork carefully with my billing
team.
I have outside billing.
I always have.
I love that because I think thatthey are as motivated, if not
more, to get the money that youdeserve, that you've earned.
And we would revisit thingsthroughout the year.
(17:21):
Maybe not in a systematicprocess like some people do
something every month, everyquarter, but it was always being
done.
And then to try to find ways togrow, not to be afraid to raise
the prices.
I would say I raise them verygently, but even little bits.
Everything else was going up inprice.
(17:41):
So also that was important.
And of course, to look at yourcosts.
I love using a virtual assistantthat I've had for three and a
half years.
I love mentoring pre-meds andpre-PAs.
I think we get a mutualrelationship out of it.
And that helps have people thatare super motivated to help you
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
The reason I want to unpack this is because a lot of
times these are the things werun away from as physicians.
So first of all, you start withhave the goal, which would sound
like, why would you say that?
But the thing is, I have spokento so many people who are
running businesses and who haverun them for years and they have
no goals.
And is the fear of then if I setthe goal, especially if it's a
(18:20):
stretch goal and I don'taccomplish the goal, then I have
to live with, you know, how badI'll feel because of that.
And so the solution is to notset goals, which you're like, I
had a goal, right?
I had a goal.
And then two, looking at thenumbers, which again is a place
many physicians don't want totouch.
The big leap you're looking foris found in the uncomfortable
(18:43):
things that maybe you haven'twanted to do prior to this time.
And so this is our invitation tosay, you know, have the goal,
look at the numbers.
You heard us say consistency andmarketing, reaching out to she
said marketing and remarketing,right?
Reach out to them again, getyour patience and anticipate the
ebbs and flows, meet with yourbillers, look at the numbers.
(19:04):
And I like what you did with thecost and creating a two-way
street.
So I'm gonna bring in thesepeople, I'm gonna mentor them
and all of that, and they'regonna support me in my goal.
So it's the true win-winsituation.
That is just brilliant.
I love it.
So, in this journey, when youthink about it, when you set the
goal, I'm sure there are somethings that came up, like, okay,
(19:25):
you're gonna need to startembracing these things, you
know, because that's the goalyou had.
What are the things that, youknow, in the beginning, maybe
you were resistant to?
Because a lot of times we comeup with if I want to accomplish
this, then I have to do this orbecome this or start thinking
this way.
You're like, ah, I don't want todo it.
What came up for you?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
We're often resistant about increasing
prices.
That's a that's a big, big thingthat happens as a physician.
We often are resistant to, youknow, trying to get our team
collect for what we have earnedbecause we feel that we should
just give it away.
And again, in my brain, I keephearing we serve and we earn.
(20:05):
And I think you're resistant toold ways.
You know, you you think, oh,that won't work.
I did that once.
And I think that the discussionswe've had along the way, they
unsettle you a little bit.
They push you to say, well, whywouldn't you change that?
Why wouldn't you do itdifferently?
I would say, for me, I getbursts of energy, I get tons
(20:26):
done, and maybe I have lulls.
It's I'm not gonna be a personwho creates a spreadsheet and
every 14 days is gonna have ananalysis.
So I would beat myself up aboutnot being that person.
And I think that the calls andthat your approach was sort of
to embrace like who you are,embrace it.
That's not your way, but you arestill making progress.
(20:47):
So I think a lot of it seems tobe the mindset that that was
difficult to change.
As physicians, we have a lot ofnegative mindset and we were not
enough, that we could be more.
And how did you do that error?
Like, for example, last year atthis time, there was so much
positive energy.
I had done a podcast with Dr.
(21:09):
Mary Alice Mina.
I was very nervous about it.
For some reason, that smallpodcast hit 7,000 people and now
is up to 26,000.
Wow, no others have done that.
We have no idea why.
Well, that energy was rolling,and then we had made for more
was being released, and I wantedto be part of that so much.
(21:30):
So I moved everything in myschedule.
I was seeing patients, I came onboard in the middle of it to
even speak.
And so all this good washappening.
And then I found out March 30ththat somehow I had let my
malpractice not paid it firsttime in 34 years.
I had not paid another bill andanother thing.
So I went to start beatingmyself up.
(21:51):
And then I was like, I went intojust fix it mode, just fixed it,
corrected it, and then asked myaccountant to now be my
accountability.
partner with it.
So I think the the difference ismaybe things will still happen,
but your resilience and yourability to think quickly will
help you come out of that lullor that low faster.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
And this is why I brought you on the show.
Because even from the threethings you did to get to the
million, those are all not threethings you gave me like six
things.
These are all frogs.
And then you talk about thispiece of resistance and a lot of
it yes is that identity iseither I'm not enough, which for
(22:33):
a good number of people is noteven the I not enough is the
second one you said, which Icould be more.
Right?
Like I'm amazing but I could bemore so now that cancels out the
fact that I'm amazing.
It is just so wild.
It was nice to hear you talkabout the trials and the
triumphs happening at the sametime.
Right.
You had the podcast that didreally well you had the book
(22:53):
launch you had all these thingsand you forgot to pay your
malpractice.
And I'm guessing there wouldhave been a time when you know
you'd beat yourself up like youknow properly, okay?
Like properly and all but you'relike, okay, let's fix this.
And the most exciting part isand let's put something in place
to make sure it doesn't happenagain.
Right.
With your accountabilitypartner.
(23:14):
So guys if you missed it, thisis the way we start practicing
handling challenges from now on.
It happens and we sit in thediscomfort of it and we're like,
okay, how do we fix this?
And how do we prevent that fromhappening again?
That's kind of what what the docdid over here.
This is good.
Okay.
Now you could have settled afteryou grew your practice and sold
(23:37):
it to private equity.
You did not you could havesettled after you launched your
practice and it was kind of youknow cool and coasting along it
and it would have been fine.
You've grown it up to thispoint.
You have a great team you have agreat brand you have a great
reputation the revenue milestoneyou wanted to hit, you hit it.
So have you finally come to theplace where you're going to
settle or what's going on?
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Absolutely not.
Yeah now I'm in like I'm in overlaunching mode and all I can
think of is I want to leave alegacy.
And I can tell you exactly aturn two turning points this
past year.
One I can imagine myself walkingaround outside of the apartment
I had to live in because we'dhad a flood in our house and
we're displaced for six monthsand talking to some of the team
(24:22):
in our breakout session andsaying, you know, what am I
doing?
I should just like be happy andbe where I am and why do I need
to grow and what am I trying todo to grow into the wellness and
metabolic health space becauseI'm too old.
So see that little that voicecame back to me.
And because of the encouragementat that group of four, all four
(24:46):
of them said, no, I don't thinkso.
I think you still have more togive and I revealed that I have
this dream of also even workingwith one of my family members.
And so they inspired me and theykind of lifted me up out of a
very low point.
You know you've been displacedfrom your home and you have all
(25:08):
this extra thing to do and whydon't you just like settle that
I wasn't ready.
And so into my life came when Iinterviewed I just put an ad out
and found one physician who'sinterested in something similar
in metabolic health, wellnessweight loss and she's been a
dream to get to know and we'rejust at the point of launching
(25:28):
and now hopefully I will besigning a contract with this
family member to be to join me.
So it's super exciting because Ifeel like not only am I going to
be mentoring within I'm going tobe co-leading and this is a
person that also startedDermutopia app with me in 2012
before they even went to medicalschool.
(25:50):
So it's a beautiful full circlefor me.
And is there the fear?
Yes of course there's fearthere's fear will I stay well
will we be able to do it but inmy brain I'm not afraid of it
failing.
I'm afraid of not doing it.
I'm really afraid of notpursuing it more than I am
afraid of it failing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
I'm not afraid of failing I'm afraid of not doing
it.
Have you always been like that?
No so what do you think got youto this place right because most
people who are afraid and theydon't do something, they're not
thinking about the opportunitycost.
They're just thinking I'm afraidof failing so I won't do it.
(26:34):
They're not thinking I'm afraidof failing so I won't do it
which means it's not going toget done.
SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
How did this happen?
I was much more driven just byprocess in the beginning.
This is what you did to get goodgrades.
This is how you got in medicalschool this is how you went
through residency.
Yes, I'm going to be somebody'spartner I did not want to be an
entrepreneur.
But if you read my chapteryou'll see that it was the
tweaking and the threatening ofintegrity that would push me to
(27:01):
the next level and I would getpushed to I would rather work at
McDonald's than have thissituation.
That's kind of a dramatic thingto say it was a long time ago
but my husband believed me whenhe heard it and we didn't have
any money and we he didn't havea great salary job.
But amazing things happened andI think along the way I've
(27:22):
started to realize that there ismore risk of not doing that
that's the regret that you have.
That being said I often willtell colleagues it's not always
your time it's okay to have avery stable secure position and
maybe in the back of your mindyou're creating something
because we need that in ourfamily life, in our personal
(27:44):
life maybe you have a parent totake care of but then to be open
to the time when it's time tochange.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
This is unbelievably amazing.
And guys the book she wasreferring to is made for more
she has a chapter in there.
You can grab it on Amazon oranywhere you buy books
phenomenal read of differentdoctors and their journeys in
entrepreneurship.
There are doctors who are at thecusp of making a decision to go
(28:12):
further right and a number ofthem we get to talk to them
because maybe they've thoughtabout it, they've met doctors
like you who've been in theentream business school and
things like that.
But they're afraid of theinvestment which as physicians
maybe we're not necessarilyexposed to that world right
they're afraid of the investmentwill I have time to do this or
(28:35):
they're afraid it worked forothers.
It worked for Dr.
Dentman but I don't know if itwill work for me.
And I have answers to all thosethings right because I think
about these things very deeplybut what would you say say to
that person?
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
Well I totally agree.
We were not trained to invest inourselves.
My husband had a coach he'salways been part of groups where
he was not afraid to pay moneyto learn.
We think of it as oh we'll goand do go to a CME meeting and
maybe we'll get some nuggets outof it.
So I think the coaching worldthough has brought that concept
(29:10):
to us like especially duringCOVID that there's there are
better ways for us to learn andto learn in community is super
important.
The fear of the commitment yeahit's not going to just happen to
you everything we've ever donenobody did it for us.
Nobody studied for us nobodylearned how to draw blood nobody
learned to put that line in weall have to do it ourselves.
(29:31):
So I think we have to keepremembering we've done hard
things before we're doing thework anyway at work.
So why not do it in the midst ofa community where you can ask
difficult questions you feelsafe.
It doesn't feel like a dumbquestion to ask and it feels
like people are cheering you on.
And I think that's the majordifference.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
Major difference for me too when we started the
OntraMD business school peopleare like no I don't want this I
don't want the community I wantone-on-one with you.
I'm like such a compliment youhaven't experienced this kind of
community the second you do youget it right is just a beautiful
beautiful thing to see.
Now there are some people whowould like to follow you to
(30:14):
support you to find out moreabout what you do.
Where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
I'm on Instagram Dermatopia Dermatologist and I
have a YouTube channel alsoDermutopia which will be growing
you can also go to my websitewhich is Dermutopia and I'd love
to interface with you because weare definitely growing and we're
going to keep trying to work onthings that are better to love
the skin you're in to love youknow yourself for patients to
(30:41):
grow and feel like they'reembraced by a community if not
us that we will help you get topeople that will help them.
So that's our philosophy.
I'd love to I'd love to befollowed but it's so great Dr.
Una I think the impact thateverybody that's been in these
communities has is is reallygoing forward.
(31:01):
And like I said before I feelthe obligation to train the next
generation and the nextgeneration is watching us.
They're scared they see a lot ofthings that are look difficult
but when we show them a glimpseof how things can be or should
be with patient care I thinkthat speaks volumes and guys she
(31:22):
is she's not just saying thisDr.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Dent has always had medical students.
We've watched her celebrate theones who are going off to
medical school and you've alwayssupported people and even your
team and even when I just watchyou on social media I can tell
the way you think about yourteam and the difference you make
in their in their lives andthat's fun.
Do you have a story of a teammember who has been impacted by
(31:46):
your mentorship?
SPEAKER_00 (31:47):
Oh I've been so lucky I think we're on number 15
getting into either medicalschool PA school now I have a
pre-med and a pre-nursing I lovethat so much.
I think there are two reallyinteresting stories one somebody
that I felt I didn't know if Icould mentor them.
They helped me out when thingswere really low.
(32:08):
I had lost my whole team ofcourse there were only three but
how would you like to wake upone day and you have no one so I
asked this young woman to comework with me and she was almost
done with college but a semestershort.
I thought I'm really going tohave to tread lightly because
she's not pre-med she's notpre-P she's got her own path I'm
(32:28):
not sure what it is.
And what was amazing is westarted to read the book Eat
That Frog and we met one time,two times not every month like I
would have liked to and peopleset goals and I watched this
person transform into a personwho now worked out five days a
week she changed her diet.
(32:48):
She came on time she came earlyshe took initiative and she
started to have thisrelationship with the patients
that they looked forward toseeing her.
She'd helped me troubleshootthings and then one day she woke
up about seven months ago andsaid hey I'm going back to
college I'm going back to UVAand I'm going to finish so that
(33:09):
felt like a strange situationbecause it was not direct
mentoring but she was beingmentoring mentored by the group
the second program.
That's what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Yeah you build a community at a group program.
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
Yeah and the second was the young woman who had a
lot of experience and had evenworked in nutrition for two
years but needed more directclinical care to go to pre-med
pre-PA she just kept engagingand engaging and leading and
helping me with the social mediaand helping with create systems
in the office which was veryimportant and necessary for me.
(33:42):
And one day she said you'veruined me I'm never going to be
able to just work with anybodyfor someone I'm going to be an
entrepreneur.
She said I don't even know Dr.
Una and she's ruined me and Isaid well that's a nice way to
be ruined.
And so it's so beautiful becauseshe even said when I finish I
(34:02):
want to come back and work withyou.
So that's another motivation Ihave if I can she's already made
it through almost a year.
So before I know it she'll beback.
Wow there's a few beautifulstories just to see them grow
and to also learn when a patientis talking I will say to them
(34:22):
stop and listen to them.
You're going to learn more fromthem than you do from me.
You're having a masterclassright now they're not talking
about skin they're talking abouthow they felt when they had
their cardiac procedure or thisor that or how uncomfortable
they felt or how they weren'ttreated well or how they were
treated well.
I said listen because that'swhere you're going to learn the
most important part of medicine.
(34:43):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (34:44):
Wow and I mean like you have that many stories for
all the people who worked withyou because the way you do one
thing is the way you doeverything.
That's amazing.
I think we need to name thisthing of team members working
with you, going out doing theirthing and coming back.
We'll call them secondgeneration team members like
their legacy team members, youknow?
That is phenomenal phenomenal.
I'm going to let you leave alast word here.
(35:06):
And I just say this because Idon't like what fear does to
physicians in the sense ofstopping them from saying yes to
what could be extremely great.
And that's the thing aboutentrepreneurship we don't know.
We don't know what happens onthe other side.
There are many things I'm sureyou could tell stories and
stories of them that you're likeI'm going to do this and I'm
(35:28):
going to get you know I'm goingto do X, I'm going to get Y
results, but you also get ABC DEF, right?
Like you get all these otherthings.
And there's somebody who isstill afraid of taking this next
step, right?
And you know the way we do it inEBS we we learn to do, right?
We we learn to take action.
And I want you to talk to thatperson who knows this is the
(35:51):
path I need to go on.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
These are the next steps I need to take but I'm
afraid do you mean to become anentrepreneur or to join the
community?
SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
To go to their next level in entrepreneurship,
right?
So for somebody that may be astartup, for somebody else that
may be on that goal to go twoseven figures, for somebody else
that may be a really a criticalhire that is required for
growth, whatever that next stepis for them.
SPEAKER_00 (36:16):
Yeah, it's hard.
I mean it really goes back tothe Nike just do it because at
some point you're never going tobe able to figure it all out and
figure out what are the 12things I can do so it won't
fail.
Most of it I think is going tobe your energy and your mindset.
I keep coming back to thatbecause I would say that is the
biggest thing that has changedin me in the last three years of
(36:40):
working with you is that I willbe super energized.
You get energized about we coulddo this or I could hire another
physician.
And then the brain starts totalk you out.
And I think again watching otherpeople do it is what helps you.
Watching other people take thosesteps is what really helps you.
(37:03):
And also kind of thinking what'sthe worst that could happen?
You hire a doctor it doesn'twork out they leave you reboot
you do it again.
And I think that's kind of howwe have to live our life a lot
of times we can't live always inprevention.
We'd like to do preventativemedicine all the time but every
so often somebody just passesout right in front of you in the
(37:26):
middle of your beautifullyscheduled beautifully timed
beautifully organized clinic.
So isn't that the way our lifealways is in medicine we know
that path so we don't have to beafraid to take that next step.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
That is a beautiful analogy I'm going to steal it I
will give you credits but thatis beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
And I think that's harder though for people who are
super organized, supermethodical to accept in a way
it's better if you're not likethat because I'm used to sort of
pivoting and changing andregrouping and coming up with a
new plan.
And then I would beat myself upfor not being methodical and
having the monthly meeting withthe staff.
(38:08):
So you have to embrace yourgifts and know that if your gift
is to be methodical you're goingto have to push yourself to go
out of that comfort zone to beuncomfortable and try something
new.
Yeah that was me.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
I was like everything needs to be in a box
and I tied up with a bow and myhusband is the opposite like he
would pivot the more impossiblesomething was the more excited
he got about it.
I'm like oh my goodness I gonnakill my husband what is he doing
right stuff like that.
Being in communities and thenwatching him watching people
like him helped me make thattransition.
So I still think in boxes but Iallow the what ifs a lot of what
(38:47):
ifs which is whatentrepreneurship is all about.
Like I'm in the middle of fivebig what ifs which it will look
beautiful when we're done but myhusband's like how was your day
froggy froggy was a frog fest.
I was just eating frogs all daydoing uncomfortable things.
So yeah man yeah this is thishas been so good so good.
(39:08):
If you are here watching andyou're like man I want to take
my business to the next levelthere is a community of elite
physician entrepreneurs it'scalled the OntreeMD Business
School.
You can book a call with ourteam on traumd.com forward slash
call.
We don't do any high pressureanything is just to see is this
the best next step for you.
And we'd love to have you thisis the community where you need
(39:29):
to be we'd love to have you inthe community so you can
experience those, you can shiftyour mindset so you can get the
strategy.
So you can have a community thatwill support you when things get
hard but you still need to keepmoving because this will happen
to everyone where you get towatch people doing in real time
things that you can only imaginebut they're doing it for fun.
That's the community that'sreally the place for physician
(39:51):
entrepreneurs so that's ontrademd.com forward slash call.
Dr.
Dinsman, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
Thank you for doing this and Iknow like me, you have you know
these five what ifs it may notbe five but you have a number of
what ifs going on it's probablymore than five actually for you
based on what you said.
(40:12):
And I want you to know that weare rooting for you like
relentlessly and I cannot waitto celebrate how this plays out
because you've done the work youcontinue to do the work you have
a beautiful growth mindset thatis so fun to watch.
And so I have my popcorn and I'mready to watch the movie that's
about to unfold.
SPEAKER_00 (40:31):
Thank you so much.
And you know I'm always willingto help or listen to a fellow
physician because without ushelping others we're never going
to get anywhere in this world.
So I'm available to help you outtoo with or without you know
spontaneity is fine with me.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
All right everyone make sure you subscribe to the
podcast if you have not alreadyshare this episode with every
doctor because we are on amission to make seven figures
the new floor where the newreality for physicians is
they're building dreambusinesses and they're building
their dream lives loss ofautonomy burnout financial
instability all of these thingsbecome things of the past you
(41:10):
can say no to the status quo andwe're saying that.
All right we'll see you on thenext episode
Is it a fear?
(00:00):
Yes, of course it's fear.
Will I stay well?
Will we be able to do it?
But in my brain, I'm not afraidof it failing.
I'm afraid of not doing it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:08):
Have you always been like that?
No.
Hi Doc.
Welcome to the OnTram D podcast,where it's all about helping
amazing physicians just like youembrace entrepreneurship so you
can have the freedom to livelife and practice medicine on
your terms.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mnet.
(00:30):
Hello everyone.
Welcome back to the OnTramDPodcast, especially to this
series where we're having what Icall eight-figure physician CEO
conversations because we'retalking to doctors who have
crossed the seven-figure mark intheir businesses and they're
still growing.
So this is going to be afantastic episode.
Super pumped to have Dr.
Brenda Dintman here.
She's going to introduce herselfin a second, but I want to say a
(00:53):
big thank you to you, Dr.
Brenda, for coming on the showand being willing to share your
story because it is stories likethis that will help us change
the narrative for physicianseverywhere.
So welcome to the show.
SPEAKER_00 (01:04):
Thank you.
It's my pleasure.
I'm Dr.
Brenda Dinnerman and I've beenpracticing for over 35 years,
but I had a new practice startabout uh five years ago.
So I'm excited to share with youabout dermatopia wellness and
the growth that I've achievedthrough entree and bee business.
SPEAKER_01 (01:22):
That is so awesome.
Like you've had a really longcareer.
And I think one of the things Iwill applaud you for is, you
know, many people at your stagewill say, you know, I'm in
retirement mode, don'tnecessarily want to grow, don't
necessarily want to learn newthings, but you're somebody who,
you know, really has a growthmindset.
And for someone who's like 30 or40, yes, you may have a growth
(01:44):
mindset, but to have practicedfor that long and you're still
looking at, you know,innovation, evolution, and all
of those things, it's really,really so fun to see.
So let's talk about right beforeyou joined the entrepreneurial
business school, right?
At that stage, at that point,you had already been practicing
for a long time.
You'd been in private practice.
What was it that was going onthat made you say something
(02:07):
needs to change?
SPEAKER_00 (02:08):
The story was that I sold my practice, my partner and
I did, to private equity.
And we thought we were relievingourselves of a lot of
responsibilities, HR, marketing,all the things that doctors
complain about that they can'tdo.
And the story just wasn't real.
And so we won't go into the longstory what happened, but after
(02:29):
going through mediation, forabout 10 months, I decided to
start all over and to kind ofget rid of that mindset that
you're too old to start over,because you're never too old to
start something new.
I'm a forever learner, alwayslearning is my hashtag.
And so I started again first,just you know, subletting very
(02:49):
tenuously, and then COVID hit.
So I was so grateful that I hadnot signed a lease that I just
put my toe in.
And then when we came out ofCOVID, still subletting, and in
21 decided to get my own space.
And that's when I met Dr.
Karen Kaufman, a colleague in mycommunity, who said, Hey, this
is the way I'm doing things.
(03:11):
Have you considered this?
And I said, Well, I want to knowmore.
You just tell me.
And she said, Well, you need tobe in Entre MD business.
And that's how I got listeningand introduced to you, Dr.
Irna.
SPEAKER_01 (03:21):
Well, big shout out to Dr.
Kaufman, who is uh ambassadorfor the Entre MD Business
School.
What was it that was the finalstraw or maybe final decision or
the thing that happened thatmade you say, okay, I've done
the private practice, we builtit up, we sold it to private
equity.
This is not quite going the wayI want it to go, and I'm gonna
start over because that's apretty big decision, right?
(03:42):
Like, especially for someonewho's been there, done that, and
has a few t-shirts.
SPEAKER_00 (03:46):
Yeah, so it was huge.
You know, people said, why don'tyou just go volunteer?
Why don't you just go onvacation?
Well, you can only do that for amonth or so.
And the truth is that I stillhad a lot to give.
I had a lot of dedication and Iwanted to give to the community,
to my patients.
And I wanted to do itdifferently this time.
I had already started mypractice once after working with
(04:07):
someone about 25 years before.
I'd had a partner, I'd grownbig, I thought I had done the
right thing.
Carrot is kind of dangled, youwon't have to worry about these
things.
It's not true most of the time.
So it was very scary to startagain, especially not being able
to call out and reach out topatients who I'd known for 20
years.
(04:27):
I felt like I'd left a familybehind.
But little by little they cameback.
And the things that really wereso helpful was starting to be
part of a community that had adifferent mindset.
Like, let's use technology,let's not be afraid of social
media, let's do it differentlythis time.
And I'll never forget the veryfirst call I was on with Dr.
(04:49):
Tamar Beckford.
She said, Okay, here's theproject for today, and I'll be
back in 40 minutes.
And when you come back, you needto be have asked to be on 10
podcasts.
And I was like, who the heckwants to be on a podcast?
And what do I need that for?
And little did I know.
Little did I know.
When you think about before youmet Dr.
SPEAKER_01 (05:11):
Kaufman and before you were introduced to Entre MD,
what are some of the things thatyou had tried to do to get the
results you wanted to get, butthey didn't quite work out the
way you expected they would?
SPEAKER_00 (05:24):
Yeah, it's hard because I've always been a
community person, even back inthe 90s when there was only
listservs.
I was part of an internationalonline community and then a part
of a younger Facebook communityin the dermatology world.
The difference was I had neverbeen part of a business
community.
I had had my consultants, myteam, I had an attorney, I still
(05:46):
do an accountant, I had thatteam, but I didn't have a team
of physicians and people thatwere like-minded trying to grow,
trying to be innovative, tryingto just do it differently in
spite of what the world orsociety or medicine tells you.
And that's what really just drewme to the community, the your
(06:06):
podcast, your view.
It was just super intriguingbecause before that, in
medicine, we were told youshouldn't market, you shouldn't
have to.
You just show up to an event andyou're gonna be part of the
hospital and someone's gonnaintroduce you, and you insurance
will send you patients.
But all that has changed and wewant it to change.
So we want to be part of thechange.
(06:27):
And I think that's what drew methe most to this group.
SPEAKER_01 (06:30):
Watching you do what you do with people, you know, I
see it as a gift because I hadto work to even be able to do
that in any kind of way.
You were in that position where,okay, I'm I'm quote unquote
starting over, which you weren'treally, you hadn't been part of
a community and all of that.
Contrast that with where we arenow.
SPEAKER_00 (06:48):
The community and the communication we've had in
our weekly calls has reinforcedthings that maybe inside I knew,
like how important a team was,or how important it was to be
resilient and keep going.
But I have this voice in theback of my head all the time,
whether it's yours or one of ourclassmates, and it'll say, like,
(07:10):
keep going, just keep going.
Today you're having a bad day,or today the you know, the
social media got messed up, ortoday, you know, three patients
didn't show up.
But the concept that it's alwaysworking.
And I think that we need that asphysicians because we're so
quick to emphasize what's wrongand what we haven't done enough
of.
Also, the concept of let'scelebrate, let's celebrate our
(07:32):
wins every single week.
You know that I couldn't wait toget on and I had to hold myself
back because in the past thatwas called bragging.
And I was raised that that wasalmost like false humility, that
you're just supposed to act likeyou're not doing well and you're
not working hard.
And I've tried to pass on to myteam that everything they do
(07:53):
when we're working together andwe serve a patient, we serve and
we earn, we don't just serve,that we are growing together as
a team and that they're part ofsomething bigger.
It's easier for me to callmyself a visionary now.
It's easier for me to callmyself a leader of a team.
It's easier for me to say, myvoice needs to be heard.
SPEAKER_01 (08:16):
I like all of that.
SPEAKER_00 (08:18):
I like all of that.
But I just pause and let thatsink in because we think our
voice needs to be quiet, ormaybe our voice is being quieted
by people, by an association, bya group, by a hospital, by the
world.
But our voice needs to be heard,and I think we need to know
what's inside integrity, ourvision to help others, and to do
(08:39):
it in a different way.
And that's where I think you'vebeen guiding us, Dr.
You and everybody else in thiscommunity.
It's incredible.
SPEAKER_01 (08:46):
Those are some really strong words.
I'm a visionary, right?
I lead a team.
That's a beautifultransformation.
And somebody may hear that andthey're like, what's the win,
right?
Because we understand verydeeply that is the internal
wins, the intangible wins, thatcreate the tangible wins, right?
We celebrate a lot of mindsetwins because we understand
(09:08):
that's what sets the stage.
Nothing really changes untilthat changes.
What are some of the things,some of the tangible wins, if
you will, that over these lastfew years you created in your
practice?
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Definitely learning to do social media and not being
afraid of it and realizing thatthere's actually kind of joy in
it because you're even if itdoesn't directly relate to X
number of patients coming, it'sa feeling that you're putting
your voice out there.
And I think as this youngerteam, they like it.
(09:41):
You know, they like feeling likethey're affecting the world
also.
I think the second thing is thatthe patients know.
They know that I'm in a businessschool.
They're intrigued by it.
They know that it means that I'mfocusing on things that are to
help them.
And we talk about it.
I talk about that I use AI toresearch research things.
I talk about that I reach out tomy colleagues, that I'm not
(10:03):
alone, that I'm gonna researchfor them on their behalf.
And so it's just a differentfeeling than transactional
medicine.
It's really like getting peopleto where they need to be and
knowing that they're unique,that they're being seen.
So that I think that's where mypractice has gone.
I've always felt that way.
I've always wanted to have thisindividualized approach and know
(10:25):
the patient, but now I feel likeI'm allowed to do it because
it's it's my baby, it's myworld, and I have a whole group
of people that are cheering meon.
SPEAKER_01 (10:35):
And you know how to build a system to make it work.
You can dream and then you makeyour dream your reality.
The second part of the questionI was gonna ask was, and what
has becoming this version ofentrepreneur made possible for
you in your personal life?
And I ask that because, youknow, we always talk about the
dream business and the dreamlife.
(10:56):
We do not have any interest inbuilding businesses that will
cost us our lives or ourfamilies or stuff like that.
We want to win all around.
So what has that made possiblefor you?
SPEAKER_00 (11:05):
It makes it possible for you to choose when you want
to do things, who you want to bewith.
You know, if my daughter, if myson, if my husband, if my friend
needs me, I'm in charge of thatschedule.
And I have control over takingvacation when I want to.
And the vacation time hasincreased, not decreased since
(11:27):
I've been working as anentrepreneur again.
And part of that's efficiency,but not always that.
Part of it's choice.
I'm gonna choose to do itbecause it's one of my values.
And then I'm gonna make up forit later.
I've always been a work hard,play hard person.
So that's not so unique, didtake off time.
I would say the struggle is inmaking sure you're not thinking
(11:48):
about it all the time, 24 hoursa day, that you are starting
trying to create balance.
It's also helped my marriagebecause it stressed the marriage
at times because of theintensity that it can draw,
which you want to do more andmore and more and more, but also
the depth of the conversations.
My husband is also abusinessman, he's not in
medicine.
As Dr.
Una knows, he read these bookslong before I did.
(12:11):
Some of them he's read two andthree times.
But now we'll sit and have veryinteresting conversations about
books like Eat That Frog orother really great business
books.
And so it's intriguing.
My children now will both say,hey, I realize we're different
than our other cousins.
I think we're entrepreneurs.
(12:32):
That's a really interestingthing when you have your
children saying that.
It has an effect on a lot ofaspects of your life.
And I think the most importantthing is the mindset work.
When something is going awry,it's so easy for me to say to
them, you've done hard thingsbefore.
I know it doesn't seem likeyou're getting anywhere, but the
snowball is coming.
(12:54):
Progress, not perfection.
So many phrases that I think weall need to hear right now
because there's a lot of stress,adversity.
A lot of younger people have alot of anxiety, and they don't
really understand how we gotwhere we are.
They think we just woke up oneday like this.
So I think that those things arevery helpful.
They lead to more meaningfulconversations with patients,
(13:15):
with friends, and with my ownchildren.
SPEAKER_01 (13:18):
That's amazing.
Touched your marriage, touchedyour parenting, right?
And I'm sure, and touched yourability to take time off.
And a lot of times, these arethe things that actually stop
people from becomingentrepreneurs because they think
it will take too much time, itwill take too much effort, it
will take too much money and allof that.
But here we are.
(13:38):
And for you, it's actuallycreating that, not the other way
around.
That is excellent.
What would you say to somebodywho, and they may not be
starting, they may be at a stagein their business where let's
say, you know, they've growntheir practice, they are
500,000, they have anopportunity to take another
leap, but they're like, man, ittook me so much work to get
(14:00):
here.
It will take me too much work toget there, and they just hold
back, even though they do wantto grow.
Like, what would you say to thatdoctor?
SPEAKER_00 (14:08):
It's always fear.
It's fear of failure, it's fearthat it maybe it'll be worse or
they'll be uncomfortable.
And I think that's the otherthing you've taught us to live
in the discomfort.
And also I would say to them,you need to look at what you're
doing that you can let go, youcan delegate, you can give to
someone else.
So you can focus on the 20%.
You can focus on what the thingsthat only you can do to make
(14:30):
your practice great.
It totally is a leap of faith tokeep going.
But it does help to be inspiredby others.
I was looking back at posts fromthree years ago and simple
things that I didn't know how todo.
And now I'm like, I know how todo that.
I can teach you, I can mentoryou, I can show you.
So I think the concept of notonly doing for yourself, but
(14:53):
because you're leading peoplearound you is what keeps me
going.
And I think we owe it to themedical community to be the
leaders.
SPEAKER_01 (15:02):
We owe it to the medical community to be the
leaders.
You're speaking my language allover the place.
I love it.
Right.
And, you know, you bring up agreat point.
Our personal development is notonly about us, right?
Because we get to lead otherpeople, whether that's our team,
whether we lead by example, orwe're leading the physician
community to say these are thethings that are possible.
(15:24):
There's such a desperate needfor leaders now.
And so our evolution is one ofthe best gifts we can give our
families, our communities, ourindustries.
And I just invite you to go forit.
Let's switch gears a little bithere.
So we celebrated you at the wasit the end of last year or the
beginning of this year orsomewhere, because you crossed
your seven-finger mark in yourprivate practice, which is huge.
(15:48):
So excited.
So for you, when you think aboutthat milestone, what do you
think are the things that madethat possible for you?
SPEAKER_00 (15:57):
Definitely having the goal.
You have to have the goal.
I know that some people willhave a double and triple goal,
but I think I've always been aperson that's looked at my
profit and loss very often, veryregularly.
And you've heard me say, I'm notafraid of the numbers.
That's a common thing physicianswill say, and I think they have
to get over that.
And numbers are just numbers,they're just data, and they're
(16:19):
ways that sometimes your brainthinks you're not doing well and
you're actually doing 10% or 20%better.
So I think looking at thenumbers often, trying to be
consistent about noticingwhether there were ebbs, there's
going to be ebbs and flows inyour year, whether it's
something that's going on withthe weather, the health of the
(16:39):
people around you.
We've been through it now withCOVID, but the consistency of
reaching back out to patientsthat maybe have canceled, say
they were sick or there was asnowstorm.
So I taught my team toconsistently re-market and
re-reach out to the patients,which kept the funnel of the
patients going and also kept theconsistency of the care.
(17:00):
So that was really important tous.
It was super important for me towork carefully with my billing
team.
I have outside billing.
I always have.
I love that because I think thatthey are as motivated, if not
more, to get the money that youdeserve, that you've earned.
And we would revisit thingsthroughout the year.
(17:21):
Maybe not in a systematicprocess like some people do
something every month, everyquarter, but it was always being
done.
And then to try to find ways togrow, not to be afraid to raise
the prices.
I would say I raise them verygently, but even little bits.
Everything else was going up inprice.
(17:41):
So also that was important.
And of course, to look at yourcosts.
I love using a virtual assistantthat I've had for three and a
half years.
I love mentoring pre-meds andpre-PAs.
I think we get a mutualrelationship out of it.
And that helps have people thatare super motivated to help you
grow.
SPEAKER_01 (17:58):
The reason I want to unpack this is because a lot of
times these are the things werun away from as physicians.
So first of all, you start withhave the goal, which would sound
like, why would you say that?
But the thing is, I have spokento so many people who are
running businesses and who haverun them for years and they have
no goals.
And is the fear of then if I setthe goal, especially if it's a
(18:20):
stretch goal and I don'taccomplish the goal, then I have
to live with, you know, how badI'll feel because of that.
And so the solution is to notset goals, which you're like, I
had a goal, right?
I had a goal.
And then two, looking at thenumbers, which again is a place
many physicians don't want totouch.
The big leap you're looking foris found in the uncomfortable
(18:43):
things that maybe you haven'twanted to do prior to this time.
And so this is our invitation tosay, you know, have the goal,
look at the numbers.
You heard us say consistency andmarketing, reaching out to she
said marketing and remarketing,right?
Reach out to them again, getyour patience and anticipate the
ebbs and flows, meet with yourbillers, look at the numbers.
(19:04):
And I like what you did with thecost and creating a two-way
street.
So I'm gonna bring in thesepeople, I'm gonna mentor them
and all of that, and they'regonna support me in my goal.
So it's the true win-winsituation.
That is just brilliant.
I love it.
So, in this journey, when youthink about it, when you set the
goal, I'm sure there are somethings that came up, like, okay,
(19:25):
you're gonna need to startembracing these things, you
know, because that's the goalyou had.
What are the things that, youknow, in the beginning, maybe
you were resistant to?
Because a lot of times we comeup with if I want to accomplish
this, then I have to do this orbecome this or start thinking
this way.
You're like, ah, I don't want todo it.
What came up for you?
SPEAKER_00 (19:42):
We're often resistant about increasing
prices.
That's a that's a big, big thingthat happens as a physician.
We often are resistant to, youknow, trying to get our team
collect for what we have earnedbecause we feel that we should
just give it away.
And again, in my brain, I keephearing we serve and we earn.
(20:05):
And I think you're resistant toold ways.
You know, you you think, oh,that won't work.
I did that once.
And I think that the discussionswe've had along the way, they
unsettle you a little bit.
They push you to say, well, whywouldn't you change that?
Why wouldn't you do itdifferently?
I would say, for me, I getbursts of energy, I get tons
(20:26):
done, and maybe I have lulls.
It's I'm not gonna be a personwho creates a spreadsheet and
every 14 days is gonna have ananalysis.
So I would beat myself up aboutnot being that person.
And I think that the calls andthat your approach was sort of
to embrace like who you are,embrace it.
That's not your way, but you arestill making progress.
(20:47):
So I think a lot of it seems tobe the mindset that that was
difficult to change.
As physicians, we have a lot ofnegative mindset and we were not
enough, that we could be more.
And how did you do that error?
Like, for example, last year atthis time, there was so much
positive energy.
I had done a podcast with Dr.
(21:09):
Mary Alice Mina.
I was very nervous about it.
For some reason, that smallpodcast hit 7,000 people and now
is up to 26,000.
Wow, no others have done that.
We have no idea why.
Well, that energy was rolling,and then we had made for more
was being released, and I wantedto be part of that so much.
(21:30):
So I moved everything in myschedule.
I was seeing patients, I came onboard in the middle of it to
even speak.
And so all this good washappening.
And then I found out March 30ththat somehow I had let my
malpractice not paid it firsttime in 34 years.
I had not paid another bill andanother thing.
So I went to start beatingmyself up.
(21:51):
And then I was like, I went intojust fix it mode, just fixed it,
corrected it, and then asked myaccountant to now be my
accountability.
partner with it.
So I think the the difference ismaybe things will still happen,
but your resilience and yourability to think quickly will
help you come out of that lullor that low faster.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
And this is why I brought you on the show.
Because even from the threethings you did to get to the
million, those are all not threethings you gave me like six
things.
These are all frogs.
And then you talk about thispiece of resistance and a lot of
it yes is that identity iseither I'm not enough, which for
(22:33):
a good number of people is noteven the I not enough is the
second one you said, which Icould be more.
Right?
Like I'm amazing but I could bemore so now that cancels out the
fact that I'm amazing.
It is just so wild.
It was nice to hear you talkabout the trials and the
triumphs happening at the sametime.
Right.
You had the podcast that didreally well you had the book
(22:53):
launch you had all these thingsand you forgot to pay your
malpractice.
And I'm guessing there wouldhave been a time when you know
you'd beat yourself up like youknow properly, okay?
Like properly and all but you'relike, okay, let's fix this.
And the most exciting part isand let's put something in place
to make sure it doesn't happenagain.
Right.
With your accountabilitypartner.
(23:14):
So guys if you missed it, thisis the way we start practicing
handling challenges from now on.
It happens and we sit in thediscomfort of it and we're like,
okay, how do we fix this?
And how do we prevent that fromhappening again?
That's kind of what what the docdid over here.
This is good.
Okay.
Now you could have settled afteryou grew your practice and sold
(23:37):
it to private equity.
You did not you could havesettled after you launched your
practice and it was kind of youknow cool and coasting along it
and it would have been fine.
You've grown it up to thispoint.
You have a great team you have agreat brand you have a great
reputation the revenue milestoneyou wanted to hit, you hit it.
So have you finally come to theplace where you're going to
settle or what's going on?
SPEAKER_00 (23:57):
Absolutely not.
Yeah now I'm in like I'm in overlaunching mode and all I can
think of is I want to leave alegacy.
And I can tell you exactly aturn two turning points this
past year.
One I can imagine myself walkingaround outside of the apartment
I had to live in because we'dhad a flood in our house and
we're displaced for six monthsand talking to some of the team
(24:22):
in our breakout session andsaying, you know, what am I
doing?
I should just like be happy andbe where I am and why do I need
to grow and what am I trying todo to grow into the wellness and
metabolic health space becauseI'm too old.
So see that little that voicecame back to me.
And because of the encouragementat that group of four, all four
(24:46):
of them said, no, I don't thinkso.
I think you still have more togive and I revealed that I have
this dream of also even workingwith one of my family members.
And so they inspired me and theykind of lifted me up out of a
very low point.
You know you've been displacedfrom your home and you have all
(25:08):
this extra thing to do and whydon't you just like settle that
I wasn't ready.
And so into my life came when Iinterviewed I just put an ad out
and found one physician who'sinterested in something similar
in metabolic health, wellnessweight loss and she's been a
dream to get to know and we'rejust at the point of launching
(25:28):
and now hopefully I will besigning a contract with this
family member to be to join me.
So it's super exciting because Ifeel like not only am I going to
be mentoring within I'm going tobe co-leading and this is a
person that also startedDermutopia app with me in 2012
before they even went to medicalschool.
(25:50):
So it's a beautiful full circlefor me.
And is there the fear?
Yes of course there's fearthere's fear will I stay well
will we be able to do it but inmy brain I'm not afraid of it
failing.
I'm afraid of not doing it.
I'm really afraid of notpursuing it more than I am
afraid of it failing.
SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
I'm not afraid of failing I'm afraid of not doing
it.
Have you always been like that?
No so what do you think got youto this place right because most
people who are afraid and theydon't do something, they're not
thinking about the opportunitycost.
They're just thinking I'm afraidof failing so I won't do it.
(26:34):
They're not thinking I'm afraidof failing so I won't do it
which means it's not going toget done.
SPEAKER_00 (26:39):
How did this happen?
I was much more driven just byprocess in the beginning.
This is what you did to get goodgrades.
This is how you got in medicalschool this is how you went
through residency.
Yes, I'm going to be somebody'spartner I did not want to be an
entrepreneur.
But if you read my chapteryou'll see that it was the
tweaking and the threatening ofintegrity that would push me to
(27:01):
the next level and I would getpushed to I would rather work at
McDonald's than have thissituation.
That's kind of a dramatic thingto say it was a long time ago
but my husband believed me whenhe heard it and we didn't have
any money and we he didn't havea great salary job.
But amazing things happened andI think along the way I've
(27:22):
started to realize that there ismore risk of not doing that
that's the regret that you have.
That being said I often willtell colleagues it's not always
your time it's okay to have avery stable secure position and
maybe in the back of your mindyou're creating something
because we need that in ourfamily life, in our personal
(27:44):
life maybe you have a parent totake care of but then to be open
to the time when it's time tochange.
SPEAKER_01 (27:51):
This is unbelievably amazing.
And guys the book she wasreferring to is made for more
she has a chapter in there.
You can grab it on Amazon oranywhere you buy books
phenomenal read of differentdoctors and their journeys in
entrepreneurship.
There are doctors who are at thecusp of making a decision to go
(28:12):
further right and a number ofthem we get to talk to them
because maybe they've thoughtabout it, they've met doctors
like you who've been in theentream business school and
things like that.
But they're afraid of theinvestment which as physicians
maybe we're not necessarilyexposed to that world right
they're afraid of the investmentwill I have time to do this or
(28:35):
they're afraid it worked forothers.
It worked for Dr.
Dentman but I don't know if itwill work for me.
And I have answers to all thosethings right because I think
about these things very deeplybut what would you say say to
that person?
SPEAKER_00 (28:48):
Well I totally agree.
We were not trained to invest inourselves.
My husband had a coach he'salways been part of groups where
he was not afraid to pay moneyto learn.
We think of it as oh we'll goand do go to a CME meeting and
maybe we'll get some nuggets outof it.
So I think the coaching worldthough has brought that concept
(29:10):
to us like especially duringCOVID that there's there are
better ways for us to learn andto learn in community is super
important.
The fear of the commitment yeahit's not going to just happen to
you everything we've ever donenobody did it for us.
Nobody studied for us nobodylearned how to draw blood nobody
learned to put that line in weall have to do it ourselves.
(29:31):
So I think we have to keepremembering we've done hard
things before we're doing thework anyway at work.
So why not do it in the midst ofa community where you can ask
difficult questions you feelsafe.
It doesn't feel like a dumbquestion to ask and it feels
like people are cheering you on.
And I think that's the majordifference.
SPEAKER_01 (29:53):
Major difference for me too when we started the
OntraMD business school peopleare like no I don't want this I
don't want the community I wantone-on-one with you.
I'm like such a compliment youhaven't experienced this kind of
community the second you do youget it right is just a beautiful
beautiful thing to see.
Now there are some people whowould like to follow you to
(30:14):
support you to find out moreabout what you do.
Where can they find you?
SPEAKER_00 (30:18):
I'm on Instagram Dermatopia Dermatologist and I
have a YouTube channel alsoDermutopia which will be growing
you can also go to my websitewhich is Dermutopia and I'd love
to interface with you because weare definitely growing and we're
going to keep trying to work onthings that are better to love
the skin you're in to love youknow yourself for patients to
(30:41):
grow and feel like they'reembraced by a community if not
us that we will help you get topeople that will help them.
So that's our philosophy.
I'd love to I'd love to befollowed but it's so great Dr.
Una I think the impact thateverybody that's been in these
communities has is is reallygoing forward.
(31:01):
And like I said before I feelthe obligation to train the next
generation and the nextgeneration is watching us.
They're scared they see a lot ofthings that are look difficult
but when we show them a glimpseof how things can be or should
be with patient care I thinkthat speaks volumes and guys she
(31:22):
is she's not just saying thisDr.
SPEAKER_01 (31:24):
Dent has always had medical students.
We've watched her celebrate theones who are going off to
medical school and you've alwayssupported people and even your
team and even when I just watchyou on social media I can tell
the way you think about yourteam and the difference you make
in their in their lives andthat's fun.
Do you have a story of a teammember who has been impacted by
(31:46):
your mentorship?
SPEAKER_00 (31:47):
Oh I've been so lucky I think we're on number 15
getting into either medicalschool PA school now I have a
pre-med and a pre-nursing I lovethat so much.
I think there are two reallyinteresting stories one somebody
that I felt I didn't know if Icould mentor them.
They helped me out when thingswere really low.
(32:08):
I had lost my whole team ofcourse there were only three but
how would you like to wake upone day and you have no one so I
asked this young woman to comework with me and she was almost
done with college but a semestershort.
I thought I'm really going tohave to tread lightly because
she's not pre-med she's notpre-P she's got her own path I'm
(32:28):
not sure what it is.
And what was amazing is westarted to read the book Eat
That Frog and we met one time,two times not every month like I
would have liked to and peopleset goals and I watched this
person transform into a personwho now worked out five days a
week she changed her diet.
(32:48):
She came on time she came earlyshe took initiative and she
started to have thisrelationship with the patients
that they looked forward toseeing her.
She'd helped me troubleshootthings and then one day she woke
up about seven months ago andsaid hey I'm going back to
college I'm going back to UVAand I'm going to finish so that
(33:09):
felt like a strange situationbecause it was not direct
mentoring but she was beingmentoring mentored by the group
the second program.
That's what it is.
SPEAKER_01 (33:17):
Yeah you build a community at a group program.
SPEAKER_00 (33:20):
Yeah and the second was the young woman who had a
lot of experience and had evenworked in nutrition for two
years but needed more directclinical care to go to pre-med
pre-PA she just kept engagingand engaging and leading and
helping me with the social mediaand helping with create systems
in the office which was veryimportant and necessary for me.
(33:42):
And one day she said you'veruined me I'm never going to be
able to just work with anybodyfor someone I'm going to be an
entrepreneur.
She said I don't even know Dr.
Una and she's ruined me and Isaid well that's a nice way to
be ruined.
And so it's so beautiful becauseshe even said when I finish I
(34:02):
want to come back and work withyou.
So that's another motivation Ihave if I can she's already made
it through almost a year.
So before I know it she'll beback.
Wow there's a few beautifulstories just to see them grow
and to also learn when a patientis talking I will say to them
(34:22):
stop and listen to them.
You're going to learn more fromthem than you do from me.
You're having a masterclassright now they're not talking
about skin they're talking abouthow they felt when they had
their cardiac procedure or thisor that or how uncomfortable
they felt or how they weren'ttreated well or how they were
treated well.
I said listen because that'swhere you're going to learn the
most important part of medicine.
(34:43):
Wow.
SPEAKER_01 (34:44):
Wow and I mean like you have that many stories for
all the people who worked withyou because the way you do one
thing is the way you doeverything.
That's amazing.
I think we need to name thisthing of team members working
with you, going out doing theirthing and coming back.
We'll call them secondgeneration team members like
their legacy team members, youknow?
That is phenomenal phenomenal.
I'm going to let you leave alast word here.
(35:06):
And I just say this because Idon't like what fear does to
physicians in the sense ofstopping them from saying yes to
what could be extremely great.
And that's the thing aboutentrepreneurship we don't know.
We don't know what happens onthe other side.
There are many things I'm sureyou could tell stories and
stories of them that you're likeI'm going to do this and I'm
(35:28):
going to get you know I'm goingto do X, I'm going to get Y
results, but you also get ABC DEF, right?
Like you get all these otherthings.
And there's somebody who isstill afraid of taking this next
step, right?
And you know the way we do it inEBS we we learn to do, right?
We we learn to take action.
And I want you to talk to thatperson who knows this is the
(35:51):
path I need to go on.
SPEAKER_00 (35:53):
These are the next steps I need to take but I'm
afraid do you mean to become anentrepreneur or to join the
community?
SPEAKER_01 (36:01):
To go to their next level in entrepreneurship,
right?
So for somebody that may be astartup, for somebody else that
may be on that goal to go twoseven figures, for somebody else
that may be a really a criticalhire that is required for
growth, whatever that next stepis for them.
SPEAKER_00 (36:16):
Yeah, it's hard.
I mean it really goes back tothe Nike just do it because at
some point you're never going tobe able to figure it all out and
figure out what are the 12things I can do so it won't
fail.
Most of it I think is going tobe your energy and your mindset.
I keep coming back to thatbecause I would say that is the
biggest thing that has changedin me in the last three years of
(36:40):
working with you is that I willbe super energized.
You get energized about we coulddo this or I could hire another
physician.
And then the brain starts totalk you out.
And I think again watching otherpeople do it is what helps you.
Watching other people take thosesteps is what really helps you.
(37:03):
And also kind of thinking what'sthe worst that could happen?
You hire a doctor it doesn'twork out they leave you reboot
you do it again.
And I think that's kind of howwe have to live our life a lot
of times we can't live always inprevention.
We'd like to do preventativemedicine all the time but every
so often somebody just passesout right in front of you in the
(37:26):
middle of your beautifullyscheduled beautifully timed
beautifully organized clinic.
So isn't that the way our lifealways is in medicine we know
that path so we don't have to beafraid to take that next step.
SPEAKER_01 (37:41):
That is a beautiful analogy I'm going to steal it I
will give you credits but thatis beautiful.
SPEAKER_00 (37:45):
And I think that's harder though for people who are
super organized, supermethodical to accept in a way
it's better if you're not likethat because I'm used to sort of
pivoting and changing andregrouping and coming up with a
new plan.
And then I would beat myself upfor not being methodical and
having the monthly meeting withthe staff.
(38:08):
So you have to embrace yourgifts and know that if your gift
is to be methodical you're goingto have to push yourself to go
out of that comfort zone to beuncomfortable and try something
new.
Yeah that was me.
SPEAKER_01 (38:22):
I was like everything needs to be in a box
and I tied up with a bow and myhusband is the opposite like he
would pivot the more impossiblesomething was the more excited
he got about it.
I'm like oh my goodness I gonnakill my husband what is he doing
right stuff like that.
Being in communities and thenwatching him watching people
like him helped me make thattransition.
So I still think in boxes but Iallow the what ifs a lot of what
(38:47):
ifs which is whatentrepreneurship is all about.
Like I'm in the middle of fivebig what ifs which it will look
beautiful when we're done but myhusband's like how was your day
froggy froggy was a frog fest.
I was just eating frogs all daydoing uncomfortable things.
So yeah man yeah this is thishas been so good so good.
(39:08):
If you are here watching andyou're like man I want to take
my business to the next levelthere is a community of elite
physician entrepreneurs it'scalled the OntreeMD Business
School.
You can book a call with ourteam on traumd.com forward slash
call.
We don't do any high pressureanything is just to see is this
the best next step for you.
And we'd love to have you thisis the community where you need
(39:29):
to be we'd love to have you inthe community so you can
experience those, you can shiftyour mindset so you can get the
strategy.
So you can have a community thatwill support you when things get
hard but you still need to keepmoving because this will happen
to everyone where you get towatch people doing in real time
things that you can only imaginebut they're doing it for fun.
That's the community that'sreally the place for physician
(39:51):
entrepreneurs so that's ontrademd.com forward slash call.
Dr.
Dinsman, thank you so much forcoming on the show.
Thank you so much for sharingyour story.
Thank you for doing this and Iknow like me, you have you know
these five what ifs it may notbe five but you have a number of
what ifs going on it's probablymore than five actually for you
based on what you said.
(40:12):
And I want you to know that weare rooting for you like
relentlessly and I cannot waitto celebrate how this plays out
because you've done the work youcontinue to do the work you have
a beautiful growth mindset thatis so fun to watch.
And so I have my popcorn and I'mready to watch the movie that's
about to unfold.
SPEAKER_00 (40:31):
Thank you so much.
And you know I'm always willingto help or listen to a fellow
physician because without ushelping others we're never going
to get anywhere in this world.
So I'm available to help you outtoo with or without you know
spontaneity is fine with me.
SPEAKER_01 (40:49):
All right everyone make sure you subscribe to the
podcast if you have not alreadyshare this episode with every
doctor because we are on amission to make seven figures
the new floor where the newreality for physicians is
they're building dreambusinesses and they're building
their dream lives loss ofautonomy burnout financial
instability all of these thingsbecome things of the past you
(41:10):
can say no to the status quo andwe're saying that.
All right we'll see you on thenext episode
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