December 3, 2025 • 37 mins
A queer hockey romance just took over our feeds, and we’re here for the why behind the wildfire. Heated Rivalry moves like a sports highlight and burns like a love story, stretching across a decade of drafts, road trips, and pressure that never lets up. We dig into what the show gets right about chemistry on screen, how careful cinematography and a queer-led creative vision elevate intimacy, and where the adaptation knowingly departs from the books. No fluff, no laugh track—this is prestige romance with a pulse.
We also get real about the ripple effects. When HBO puts muscle behind LGBTQ+ romance, the impact hits more than timelines—it hits author dashboards, bookstore algorithms, and the courage meter for creators on the fence. We compare trad publishing reach and licensing power with indie speed and control, unpack what rights really mean when your story travels to TV, and talk through the non-negotiables we’d set to protect character identities and moral tone. There’s nuance in the casting discourse, too: the legal limits of asking about sexuality, the ethics of representation, and the simple truth that performance and respect must carry the role.
If you’re a fan, you’ll get context on timeline choices, spicy scenes, and the moments that sparked debate without drowning the heart of the story. If you’re a writer, you’ll find a blueprint for making your romance filmable: character-forward beats, clear stakes, and intimacy that reads as story, not spectacle. Along the way, we share a candid look at shop chaos, special edition boxes, and the behind-the-scenes grind that keeps the lights on when a fandom goes feral.
Love what you hear? Follow the show, share it with a friend who needs a new obsession, and drop a review so more listeners can find us. Want deeper craft and business strategy? Join our Patreon at patreon.com/theburnedoutmuse for lessons, workbooks, and audio you can play on the go.
Want the uncut chaos + bonus episodes? Join us inside the cult at Patreon.com/TheBurnedOutMuse. Or find everything else (Discord, socials, freebies) at linktr.ee/theburnedoutmuse.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:10):
I don't even remember what number we're on
anymore, so I'm just gonna say,hey guys, welcome to the Feral
Fandoms Podcast.
I'm only James, gay romanceauthor, fandom guru, just to the
stars.
And I'm here with my niece andmy co-host.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
I'm your niece today.
Oh, I love that.
It's because we're just comingoff Thanksgiving.
We're feeling like familybecause we just did a family
event.
Just Shannon, her niece.
That's it.
That's my intro.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
She's also my PM.
She's my claim.
My bodyguard at all the cons.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Bodyguard.
Shop manager.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Email.
Email writer.
Yeah.
Because we're giving me anxiety.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
The person who I send all the emails to before
I'm like saying stuff that'swrong.
Because I don't know what thathappens in the shop.
Oh my God.
I know so little about my ownbusiness that I had to provide
the copyright information for mybooks, for my Nola Harker books,
an agency that was asking aboutit.
(01:14):
And so I just put what I thoughtit would say.
And she's like, hey, no biggie,but in your books it says
something else.
And I was like, oh.
unknown (01:23):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Well, I'm sure the books are right because Molly
does those.
And she also does the copyright.
So when Molly says it's probablyright.
And whatever I say is just meguessing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
In fact, Molly at onlyjames.com, you may want to
just call her.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Yeah.
Who's like, I don't know whyyou're even asking me for
things.
Like to be honest.
I write the books and then I go,here you go.
I can't be held responsible foranything else.
Yeah.
unknown (01:47):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
So anyway shop.
So today I thought we would talkabout heated rivalry since it is
literally everywhere.
It is all over.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
I do know a little bit about it.
So I do know that these werebooks, but they're traditionally
published.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Yes, Karina Press, which is an offshoot of
Harlequin.
So it was released originally in2019.
Now I'm not super well versed inthe game changer series.
I know heated rivalry because itsits next to my books in a ton
of lists.
So I'm always like, oh hey.
Because it's a really cute andcartoon cover, level two hockey
(02:25):
cover.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Which we love.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yeah.
We love cartoons.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Um love cartoon covers.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
But yeah, so I'm always seeing it.
And I knew it was a hockey.
I don't do the sports ballromances, even hockey, which I
love.
Like I just, I don't know.
I'm just not at like a sportsromance.
Honestly, it's because there'sso much homophobia in a lot of
the sports romances.
Probably not anymore, but likewhen I first started reading it,
like and even in the show, likeevery single insult in the first
(02:52):
two episodes of the show waslike gay references.
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
This is a male romance.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yes.
But they're two hockey playersin an extraordinarily
testosterone-driven field.
So this is supposed to be takingplace originally.
The romance starts in 2008 andspans like 10 years.
That's right.
So when they first meet, they'reboth being drafted into the NFL.
And they're like the number onein both of their specific
(03:20):
wherever they're from, theirschools or wherever they're
playing.
And so, of course, they'reinstantly pitted against each
other.
Ooh, which one's better?
And right away, the beautifulRussian boy, Ilya, is very much
giving the wanna fuck energy tothe other guy who is just, bro,
(03:41):
we're in a locker room, and I'mnot sure you're serious right
now, and I don't want to get myass beat kind of energy.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:47):
There's a lot of playing or like going around the
for at least.
But they have they literallyspan the first eight years in
episodes one and two.
That's how fast it time jumps.
It's just a boom-boom.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
It's not your whole career NFL career?
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
You would think, but that's I guess that's probably
why she chose it like when themliterally getting drafted.
Okay.
So that they're really young, sothey can Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
I think like 32, you got that that brain problem.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Yeah, I don't know.
Some of them go a long time.
Like, I don't think Wingfreaking retired until he was
practically actually retirementage.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
If I remember correctly, Wayne Gretzky kept
retiring and then coming back.
I thought that was hockey.
Oh, yeah.
Don't ask me about sports ball.
I don't know.
I know Travis Kelsey.
Ask me about Kelsey, brother.
I can tell you that.
That's it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
But I didn't none of us knew Heated Rivalry was even
coming up until, I don't know,maybe four months ago.
It could have even been.
What's it on?
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
What's it streaming on?
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Okay, so it was originally to stream on Crave,
which is a Canadian channel.
But it blew up so hard on theinternet that HBO bought the
rights to it.
So it's on HBO Max.
Right?
Imagine your book blowing up tothe point where HBO is knocking
on your door.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Imagine necessary evils on HBO.
But like eight like Game ofThrones level production.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Yeah.
And that's what I okay.
So this is the thing.
Anytime there's a gay romanceand it's not cutesy like
Heartstopper or Love Simon,where it's just, oh, two little
teen boys falling in love.
Usually And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
And we're okay with it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
Yeah.
Usually it's shitty production.
Usually it's like actors who arelesser known, which these two
are also lesser known, butthey're phenomenal actors.
But like they just don't give itthe care it deserves.
And so with romance, you have tobe careful because if it's acted
poorly, it comes off as supercheesy.
It doesn't matter how good thebook is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
The dialogue, if it's said wrong, is gonna come
off so lame.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Sometimes things in books come out better in your
brain and when you're reading itthan it would on the screen
because you have a lot morenarration in their head.
You're more invested.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Right.
You're more invested.
You know what they're thinkingwhen it comes out of their mouth
versus you're just watching iton the screen and you have no
clue.
That's why I guess Ilya'sgetting a lot of hate, the
character, right now, becausethe people who read the books
understand where he's comingfrom.
He is Russian, his father islike extremely homophobic, like
he's domineering, he's always inhis face about if you don't win
every time you're a loser kindof thing.
(06:30):
So we have that kind of you getit in the show.
Like it's not like they'rehiding that part of it, but like
you're not in his head, likeliving it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
That's always the problem with book to movie.
Always the problem with book tomovie.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
But they're doing a great job of giving you all of
the information, and that's Ithink why they didn't made it a
series and not books or not amovie, so that they could
actually take the time and dothe story.
These two acting it out, they'redoing such a good job.
I was actually genuinelyimpressed, not just because the
chemistry is there, but becausethey had to do some insanely
(07:05):
intimate scenes.
Like you've seen how high heatmy books are.
Rachel Reeds are no different,and the two actors are like on
camera everywhere, jokingaround.
They're like, oh, we put tonguesin places and we put they think
it's really they're hamming itup.
This is our first big role.
Um, but they did it all so well,and the chemistry is so there.
And Ilya is like very dominantand very gur, like the almost
(07:30):
morally gray, but not, and hepulls it off so well.
And in one interview, they askedHudson, who plays the
non-Russian, why he thought hischemistry worked so well with
Connor, who plays the other one.
And he was like, Oh, the otherguys were good, but Connor
looked like he wanted to throwme up against a wall and fuck
me.
And I was like, God, okay, heunderstood the assignment 100%.
(07:52):
He was like, I got this.
And apparently Connor's fromTexas, but he pulled off that
Russian like it was his job.
I don't know if he is Russian byway of Texas.
That's literally his job.
Yeah, that is his job.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
When acting is literally your job.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
Excellent work, Connor.
Good job.
SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
I love when I do my job, and you did it, Connor.
You did it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Good job.
But yeah, so the story's great.
The oh my god, thecinematography is beautiful.
And I think it has a lot to dowith the fact that the director
is gay.
Like, I think he put the careand effort into it because like
he was invested in the story.
And this is the problem now isthat they're facing backlash
(08:33):
because a lot of people arelike, gay actors should play gay
characters.
And the act and the and thedirector was like, hey, I'm not
legally allowed to asksomebody's sexuality before I
give them a job.
Like, it's illegal.
Right.
And he's as long as thechemistry is sold, and as long
as they take it seriously, andas long as they're not making
fun of the role, like actingexists, it's acting, or
(08:55):
pretending.
Yeah, and then on the writerside of it, a lot of male gay
romance authors are mad that awoman, yeah, her book was the
one that got chosen.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
It's that's we're we're never gonna beat that.
Yeah, this just is what it is,it's always gonna be there.
It's okay if we buy the books.
It's okay.
Yeah, we just can't write them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Yeah.
But it's weird because all of usare low-key, probably a little
jealous of Rachel Reid right nowbecause we've all been.
She's on fucking HBO.
Yeah, what are you talkingabout?
Like, she's on fucking HBO.
But I'm just like, but see,that's good for everybody.
It's good for business.
(09:41):
That's more mainstream.
We are not lying.
My page reads are through thefucking roof.
I've never seen page reads likethis.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
She's because when they go to look up her book,
they you eventually are gonnaend up somewhere on their
algorithm.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah.
On a rising tide boosts allships or whatever.
Yeah.
And that's it.
Like she's doing well, andbecause of that, our whole genre
is being up now.
And so good for her.
Like, yeah, I don't begrudge herthat at all, but it's just crazy
that now all of a sudden thisbacklash and all of this like
attention and stuff.
I don't think she probablyanticipated just how fast and
(10:19):
how crazy it was gonna get.
And I wonder how she's handlingthat.
Because I think I would have tolog off.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, I think I would just have to log off.
I would be like, send me my runme my check.
I'm deleting my Twitter and I'mjust gonna write some books.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
Yeah, I'm gonna be in my bubble.
I don't want to know.
I don't want to know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Like when anything's consumed on a massive stage or a
massive scale, there's alwaysgonna be haters, haters in the
industry, haters, people whojust don't want to see that type
of shit on screen, but like theycould just literally turn it
off.
They don't haters, actors, ohshe's a woman, this, that, or
whatever.
It is what it is.
Imagine if your stuff, becauseyour stuff's more taboo, more
(11:05):
not taboo, but it's just darker.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
It's just darker than uh I will say that this is
not a rom-com, which is goodbecause so many of the movies we
see, especially this time ofyear, any gay stories at all,
it's gonna be uber cutesy wholehallmarks, and that's great.
Don't get it twisted.
Like, that's great, yeah.
But like we never get anyvariety.
(11:27):
The Asian BLs is because theyspan every genre.
You get like your cutesy littleones, you get like your deep,
disturbing ones, you get thedark ones, you get mafia, you
get whatever.
Because they actually createdthis entire genre, like that BL
is what drives their economy, sothey put the time and effort
(11:48):
into it.
And honestly, this right now,the entertainment industry has
the opportunity to capitalize onthis the same way Asia has by
giving people what they want,and clearly people want more gay
and queer romances, like theyjust do, not as the side
character, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:08):
Not as the quirky side character, not as the city.
They're not giving it the sex inthe city, the sex in the city
treatment.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
I just I think we're all just tired of the
stereotypes, and it's nice tosee characters that aren't in
that same box all the timebecause it feels like in
Hollywood, especially, there'snothing new.
They just reboot the same moviesover and over again, the same
framework over and over again.
Literally, yeah, and nobody'sgoing to the movies anymore.
(12:35):
Everything's streamed now.
So they have an opportunity, andI don't know if they'll take it,
but I can tell you that I'veseen so many people on threads
being like, I'm gonna write myown gay romance now.
I've seen like just so manypeople be like, Yeah, yeah, oh,
I'm getting ready to write minenow.
And I'm like, Great, do it, doit.
Like, fucking, I think it's Ithink it's good for all of us,
(12:57):
really.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
But it is a hundred percent because well, especially
for you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
But it's so intense.
It's so intense.
When I say I can't scroll awhole page without seeing heated
rivalry, I'm not kidding.
Like, I have a feeling in threeweeks I'm gonna be like, if
somebody says heated rivalry tome one more time, I'm gonna
start twitching.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Is it all out?
Is the whole series out or arethey doing it in?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
It releases every Friday.
I almost just waited and bingedit, but then that is what I like
to do.
Yeah, but then the reactor thatI usually watch stuff with was
like, Oh, I'm gonna watch thefirst two.
And I was like, ah shit.
All right, I'll watch it becauseI wanted to watch his reactions
too, because I hadn't seen it.
And this is one of the firstones that I'm like watching
where I'm not watching it firstand then watching it again with
(13:42):
somebody else.
And right, I was shook, I wasblushing, and it takes a lot.
I used to work for a porncompany, it's hard to make me
blush.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
You also come up with some blushworthy scenes
yourself, but watching them getacted out, and that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
If my book ever got made into a movie, I don't think
I could watch it.
I can't even listen to myaudiobooks.
Watching two people out, my god,I would kill myself.
I like I my secondhandembarrassment, it wouldn't even
be secondhand, it'd be firsthand embarrassment this time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
My god, your readers would love it, but they would
also like good luck to whoeverproduces it, directs it, because
they're gonna be like five, six,seven, eight.
Good luck.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, my readers like actually to my face.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like a guy said to meyesterday, he was like, So
when's your book coming out as amovie?
And I was like, bro, do youthink I just have HBO on speed
dial?
And I'm like, you know what,guys, I'm gonna give it to you
this time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
Netflix, HBO, please, ladies.
It doesn't happen.
Well, and for an indie book,that would be really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
Yeah, it would be crazy.
And I think that's what a lot ofpeople don't understand is like
the downside of Tradpub is thatyou make shit money if you're
not selling shows.
Yeah, the upside is that youhave a much bigger audience
because you're exposed in a lotmore.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
There's a reason heated rivalry is so red because
yeah, and there's 50 peopletrying to make deals for you
that you don't even know what'sgoing on.
You don't even she probablydidn't even know that was oh,
she probably had an idea it wasin motion, but she's doesn't
have to do doesn't have to do isdifferent.
She doesn't have to do what youhave to do, which is literally
create.
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
She has an agent.
I guarantee you she has like andHarlequin's making the deals
because Harlequin owns therights.
And Harlequin has a much biggerto bring to the table than you
know any of us, even RachelReed.
Like Rachel Reed's not callingup HBO or quick, it's whoever
works with her.
(15:45):
And like my entertainmentattorney also works as an agent,
and there's avenues to getthere, but it's just a much
harder sell as an indie than beas a trad pub.
But inverse of that is that Imake seven figures a year, and
75% of that, so my 90% of herroyalties for her.
And the characters are yours.
(16:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
You could do HBO and then it would be your deal to
make, not hard.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Like, I mean, it's not like Rachel Reed didn't get
money from everybody like forher story.
They optioned the rights to thatstory.
So I'm sure she as a person,they are still her characters,
she's probably doing just fineuh financially.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
I ain't worried about her.
She couldn't.
I'm a little worried.
She probably didn't know thatshow was gonna blow up like
that, which is like amazing andfun, and you love to see it, but
also the internet is so scaryand people are so fucking mean.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
I know, but that's why like the bigger my TikTok
gets, I'm like, oh, I don't wantit to get too big.
I don't want people to be too, Idon't want too many people to
notice because then it becamethen it becomes troll territory,
and it's just it's hard.
It's hard on the it's hard outon these streets.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
It's hard out here on these streets.
The good news is like you're youdon't really have uh anything
terrible to up if they're MAGA,then they're gonna think you're
terrible.
But you've been on that wokeshit since the 90s, so they
really couldn't find anything onyou like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
I mean, there is I do tend to run my mouth, so I'm
sure I've misspoken, I'm sureI've made errors, like but it
was never racist or homophobic.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
You might have said something.
I can't imagine that I would.
Like, no, you never did.
I say I've been tracking youhere.
For you, girl.
I was like, that ain't themeanest shit you ever said.
It's the meanest shit you eversaid that was like out of
pocket, yeah.
For depending on who you are andwhat you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Yeah, normally I write a post, I read it, I
reread it, I read it again.
Half the time I delete it andjust move on.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Now, when it's not just you and 50 of your closest
friends and family.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
No, I save all my shit talking for the DMs.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
And usually an audio file.
Yeah, they'll find a way toexpose that too.
Uh all my shit's in the commentsections of TikTok.
Find me.
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Well, I know you keep getting banned.
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
At some point, they're just gonna ban your IP
address or and your phone's likematerial number.
You know what?
And my productivity is gonna gothrough the roof.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
What happened?
Oh, nothing.
I was just I was checking.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Like I said, I'm both slightlyjealous and not at all of the
attention.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
So she's on HBO, but then you're on HBO.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah.
It's like it's like being anattention whore, but at the same
time being terrified ofattention is a weird thing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Not good at critic.
I'm really not good atcriticism.
That's why I don't createanything.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
Except for I suck at criticism.
I just don't look at it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Yeah.
That is what you have to do.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Yeah.
If I did, I would never writeagain.
Like, yeah, I have to tellmyself all the time like you
can't make everybody happy.
Like, not everybody's gonna likeyour story, not everybody is
meant to be the person who readsyour books, like, you know.
And some people live opinions ofme is none of my business.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
180 million percent that is the case.
And your readers aren't yourreaders' levy.
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
Yeah, my readers do, which is crazy, but I appreciate
it.
Let's just go back to uh heatedrivalry.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Heated rivalry.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
If Netflix and HBO are smart, they're already
working on like a gay romancedivision.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
And I think this came about because they were
probably looking for somethingBridgerton-like that they could
like capitalize on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
What's your dreamcast?
Book one, Unhinged.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
See, it's hard because it's been so long now,
but like originally Noah wasbased on Froy Gutierrez, who by
the way, who by the way, hisaunt reads my books.
And she told him what did hesay?
He's like, Oh, really?
That's hilarious.
Okay.
And she screenshotted it andsent it to me.
I love it.
She's like, Yeah, he thought itwas really funny, you know.
(20:00):
And now, of course, he's comeout, so that actually makes it
even better.
Because he wasn't out when Ioriginally cast him.
He is a little old for Noah nowbecause he's in his 30s and
Noah's supposed to be in hisearly 20s.
Yeah.
But I well, not that Freud lookslike he's in his I, you know,
but anyway, but he was myoriginal for Noah.
I don't know, I don't know a lotof the younger actors now, so I
(20:22):
don't even know what do someunknowns.
Yeah, I think we would have togo for a completely unknown
cast.
Also, because I don't think alot of big name actors would
agree to the smut level that isin Unhinged.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Which which you cannot let go of.
And then, so what is what's ourproduction style?
Like we go in the who was thatCassie.
Who were those people?
God Sydney Sweeney was in it.
That's how she got famous, theshow.
Oh.
And anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Mean girls?
No, well, no, that was the othergirl, Frenet, whatever.
No, what the hell was the nameof that movie?
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
It's a show, and they're all in high school.
Anyway, so that's a super realor it's super realistic.
We're going like a little bitmore.
It's Sydney Sweeney and theZendaya.
And oh, oh, oh, oh, euphoria.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Damn it.
I don't know why I couldn'tthink of that.
And I watched the first seasonof Euphoria.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
They're gonna be like 47.
They're gonna be like 47 by thetime the show's over.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
It takes so long to get new seasons out of things.
It takes so much.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
But it's crazy though, because Euphoria was
depressing as fuck.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
You know who the scariest character in Euphoria
was Zendaya's drug dealer?
The like housewife lady.
Dude, like she was so creepy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
I was so worried for the the trans girl all the time.
Yeah.
I was so worried for her becauseI didn't know where they
intended to go with it.
And they always tend tobrutalize the trans girl, you
know?
Like it's always like becausethey are at higher risk of being
uh like abused.
So I was like, oh, are theygonna go hyper-realistic?
(22:13):
And is it gonna be like and Imean she did get into some
situations that were like theyall did in the show, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Yeah, but they were all equalopportunity, like bad things
happening.
But I still was mostly worriedabout her because I was just
like, oh, it's so dangerous.
Like every time she left thehouse, I was like, oh god, is
this the episode where somethingbad happens to her?
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
But if if so unhinged would be season one,
right?
We have all the boys season two,yeah, yeah.
Psycho BC.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
See, that's the problem, is though, if they they
cast Unhinged, they would haveto cast the entire series in the
beginning in advance.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
How involved, how involved would you want to be?
Are you on set?
Are you in the are you in thedialogue writing room or are you
just I trust you, run me myworld?
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
I don't think there's a world where they could
let me.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Hail Mary guy, I forget his name, somebody whale,
I think, but I read Hail Mary,and he's like on set.
He did the Mar The Martian too.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Right, but isn't he also a trad pub author?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With a huge following, superhuge, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
He's a New York Times bestseller.
I am not perfect world.
We're talking, we're in fantasyland.
Okay.
So in a couple of things.
Come with me.
Our feet are off planet earth.
We're we are cat we're casted,and then they're like, all
right, Martina, or only James.
Are you interested?
How deep into it do you want tobe?
Or would you rather get ageneral idea of the direction
(23:47):
they're going, or do you wantthem to use your dialogue?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Oh no, I definitely want I don't, I mean, it doesn't
have to be exact, obviously,because just for time
constraints alone, they wouldprobably have to make some
things, or maybe not, maybethey'll just do a six-episode
series too.
Uh more than anything, I think Iwould just have uh like
provisions in place.
You can't change this, you can'tchange this.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
What if they wanted to make switch some genders?
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Yeah.
What if they wanted to makeFreckles a girl?
No, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
There's no changing their genders, there's no
changing their sexualities.
Okay.
They can change ethnicities.
I don't care.
Yeah, I don't care about that.
It doesn't just apply.
You're more you want to makesure that's what they're doing.
They're all adopted, they don'tneed to look alike.
Right, exactly.
You know, and if they found anactor of a different ethnicity
who they thought just reallyembodied, yeah.
Great, fantastic, do it.
(24:42):
Like, I'm never going to be thatlike crazy about it.
I mean, obviously with Freckles,like, I'm, you know, he's a
redhead.
Like he's a very pale redhead.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and a lot of theethnicities, like both Felix and
Jericho, because they'rebrothers, are both half Chinese,
half Mexican.
I don't think you're going to belike, hi, we're only casting
half Chinese, half Mexicans.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
So how much of the lot do you think they'd be
willing to let go of?
What if they said, what if theytone down some of the badness of
the bad guys that get bad thingshappen to them?
What if they wanted to lightenit up?
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
I don't think they would do that because like then
they would like it wouldn't beas morally gray.
Right.
You know what I mean?
It would be more like these guysare just, you know, they're not
killing for a speeding ticket.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
So I think it would be.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Like, so you would want to be pretty involved in it
because you'd be like, actually,no, actually, or would they
change like the vibe of acharacter just by switching up
some of the dialogue, you knowwhat I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Yeah, it's really hard to say.
Like, even now in HeatedRivalry, in the book, why can I
not remember the other maincharacter's name?
Hudson is the actor, Hudson'smom in the show, makes this kind
of like offhand homophobic joke,and not even a homophobic joke.
She says something along thelines of, you know, fuck him,
fuck him in the ass in anegative, go fuck yourself kind
(26:01):
of way.
And in the books, she's justsuper supportive, pro LGBT
hockey mom.
And so a lot of people were kindof taken aback by that because
they were like, oh, are theygonna make her more of
supervillain in this one?
Or are they gonna make lesssupportive?
A lot of people just were like,eh.
And then a lot of people weremad because in sorry guys, a
(26:23):
little bit of a spoiler.
Turn it off.
I'll tell you when you can turnit back on.
Oh, wait, I can't, never mind.
Yeah, but in episode two, one ofthem, Ilya's supposed to meet up
with the other guy, but there'sa blizzard, so he can't go.
When he gets home, his what Ithought might be his girlfriend,
but I think is now more like achildhood friend, is waiting
there wearing nothing but hishockey jersey, and they end up
(26:46):
banging on the table.
But they're not in arelationship yet.
The two guys aren't in arelationship yet.
They're kind of doing this weirdon again, off again.
They haven't even slepttogether, just kind of fooled
around.
So in it's in the book, likeit's true to the narrative, but
in my world, if I ever, everattempted to put my character
(27:09):
with another person after theother main character's already
been introduced, they would slipmy fucking throat.
If Adam fucked somebody elseafter meeting Noah, done.
Nobody would ever read anotherone of my books ever again.
Ever.
So they're very attached.
Yeah, to me, I would be, I waslike kind of shocked by that.
And some people were like, Yeah,I wish they had cut that
(27:31):
particular part out.
Yeah.
Which is kind of funny.
SPEAKER_01 (27:34):
So I wonder how involved she is.
So because she's traditionallypublished, she probably has less
of a say, you think?
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
I don't know.
I don't know how that would be.
We don't know that we don'tyeah.
I think basically the more yousell, the more power you have,
you know, because HBO wasn'tinvolved from the jump, Crave
was.
Crave is from what I I don'treally know much about Crave,
but it sounds like their wholegenre is just romance.
Like they just make romancemovies.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
Good for them.
They were probably very much ontask.
Like they probably knew exactlywhat they wanted to do going
into this.
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
And it seemed like they really wanted to stay true
to the actual story.
And they must have had a goodenough reputation where
Harlequin felt comfortablehanding over the story that it
wasn't gonna be super cheesy andlame and badly acted,
showgirl-esque, with acting socringe, you just want to cry.
It wasn't gonna be 365.
It wasn't gonna be somethingthat the internet watched in
(28:29):
secret or made a joke out of.
It was gonna be a good movie orshow.
Sorry, I keep calling it amovie.
It's gonna be a good show.
So maybe Rachel just didn't haveuh much to complain about from
the jump.
So I don't really know.
I'm sure eventually she'll crawlout of she'll crawl out of
whatever you're doing fine,Rachel.
She's hiding everything orwhatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
You got a show on HBO, girl.
Don't let the haters get youdown.
I support you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
I mean, she might be loving it.
She might, I mean, I don't know,Rachel.
I've heard from a bunch of otherpeople who do know her that
she's super nice, that she'svery kind.
And I mean, that's always goodbecause you never know.
You want the right peoplegetting famous, but it doesn't
always happen.
But you never know it goes on inpeople's houses.
But like I said, since the firstepisode dropped, my page reads
(29:20):
on Amazon have tripled.
Tripled.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Like I had 300,000 page reads for yesterday.
Yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
Damn.
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
Yeah.
One day.
There was a time when that wasmy whole month.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
That'd be great though.
Now I hope that come over to thewebsite.
Come, darlings.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Come to play.
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
Come to Patreon where I have more We've got
acrylic stick.
SPEAKER_00 (29:51):
That's how we lure them in.
Do you want to love acrylicstick?
We've got sweatshirts.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
We've got hats.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah.
This is why Rachel Reed has ashow and I'm a busy showing.
We've got mugs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Technically, I'm shilling them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
Yeah, it's true.
I'm just like, hey, it's overhere if you want it.
And I'm like, get out of here.
They love you.
They fucking love you more thanthey love me.
That's not true.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
That's not true.
SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Uh somebody literally emailed me and was
like, what can I do for Shannon?
Because I just wanted to knowhow much I appreciate everything
she does for me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (30:30):
And I was like, Did you send her my cash out?
I'm kidding.
I was like, I was like, well,what do you what do you want to
do for her?
I was like, do you want to sendher like a digital gift card?
Do you like, what are you askingme?
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
Somebody asked me if I got a Dunkin' Donuts gift
card, and I forgot to respond toher because I didn't.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Oh.
Because I think she emailed, shewanted to email you something,
and I was like, listen, she's aDunkin' girl.
So if you're gonna send hersomething, then Duncan is
probably the best way to do it.
Because if you try to send heranything too expensive, she's
probably not gonna take it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
Oh, that's so sweet.
I need to respond to her.
I thought I think I thoughtbecause I read it on my phone.
I was like, I think she meant tosend that to someone else
because I didn't get a I didn'tget a gift card.
Maybe it got in your maybe it'sin your spam folder.
Might be.
Oh, they're so sweet.
They really do send me loveletters.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
I'm telling you, they send youlove letters.
They really love you.
They tell me all the time.
That's really nice of thembecause sometimes that'll be
(31:23):
taking a long time to give themtheir stuff.
But you know what?
I'm pretty real with them whenthey email me, and I'm like,
yeah.
See what happened.
What had happened was I shouldhave been done ordered.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
You may take forever sometimes, but at least we're
honest.
I'll be gonna get your shit.
Like I will never get it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
I'll never scam you, baby.
You gonna get it, and it's gonnacome with stickers and a
bookmark and all kinds of stuff.
I do try, I do stay within,usually I do stay within the
exactly the time frame that Ido.
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
You're not the problem.
I'm the problem because I'm theone who's in control of like the
book boxes, the artwork,everything like that.
And sometimes, like this yearwas a complete clusterfuck
because of the whole artistsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:06):
If I hadn't had that whole snafu with the artist, we
probably would have put outthree book boxes this year.
But 100% once one thing fallsapart, yeah, everything else
just grinds to a halt.
That's the problem with a bookbox.
Well, they're gonna get unhingedbefore before Christmas.
So that'll be nice.
They will.
And then we can then we'll goback to business as usual.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
And the Standees once though, yeah, we'll be
we'll be up to date, girly pop.
And then next one's Barbarian.
Which they got hella confused.
I don't know who posted in themotherfucking group about the
hundred dollar box and givingaway the mug, but you fucked up
my Tuesday, so bad.
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
I'm like, you're it's for the Yeah, they they
didn't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
I was like Sin Eater, which I kept saying it
was a Sin Eater box on theFacebook, and you're asking
about barbers.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I'm like, guys, you're you're freaking out over
nothing.
If you don't pay a hundreddollars a month to me, you're
not getting that big box.
Like, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Minimum.
There is no Sin Eater specialedition box.
First of all, no, it doesn'texist yet.
Not yet.
SPEAKER_00 (33:15):
There will be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
There will be.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
We did the barbarian.
SPEAKER_01 (33:18):
Why I don't know why we're having the barbarian
conversation.
I was so confused.
I'm like, who's giving awaywhat?
Because they're liars.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Yeah, it's it's fucking madness.
No, but anyway, I think we'veexhausted this topic and we've
bored people to death with myback office stories.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
People like this is an author podcast, okay?
And they might hire.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
It's probably why we're listening.
I don't know.
We're doing our at least I knowthe people on Patreon are
listening because they read mybooks, but I don't know if
anybody else is.
Oh, yeah, no, a lot of peopleare listening, but I doubt that
they're all just readers.
I'm sure somebody actually wantsactual information about this
actual information.
SPEAKER_01 (34:02):
This is back of the house.
This is what you gotta get yourhands dirty, baby.
You're trying to ship somebooks, okay?
You want a garage full of shit?
Yes, yeah.
Okay.
You wanna know what it's like?
You wanna know what it's like inthese streets?
I'll take you to my garage.
It's 20 motherfucking degreesout there.
I'm gonna be in there for twohours today.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Oh, I didn't even think about that.
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
No, no, no, no, no, it's fine.
No, it's fine.
Actually, I'm gonna order alittle heater for out there
because I don't package thebooks out there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
I try and bring the order inside, but I will say,
since we're about to wrap up, Iam dropping my Patreon course a
lesson at a time on the Patreonfor Burned Out Muse.
So if you are interested inlearning how I make$25,000 a
month off my Patreon, it's areally good course.
(34:50):
You only pay$25 a month for thattier, and you'll get all of the
information dripped to you,including all the bonus stuff
and all the workbook stuff.
So it's just patreon.com slashthe burned outmuse, and you can
get access to all that and abunch of other author good
stuff, lessons, uh bonusepisodes of the podcast.
(35:12):
I've put all of the Patreonepisodes as podcast episodes
too.
So if you don't want to watchthe basically, you're just gonna
be looking at a PowerPointbecause I hid my face.
But if you don't want to justlook at a PowerPoint, you can
just listen to it on your way towork, whatever.
So I've tried to make it asaccessible as possible.
(35:32):
And if you don't want to do anyof that, you can buy it for 10
bucks a piece off of Patreonjust one lesson at a time.
So if there's my spiel.
But yeah, other than on you.
Oh, and we're doing podcastsevery other week now.
SPEAKER_01 (35:47):
Oh, I didn't know that.
It's a crazy time of year.
Girl, and it that's a crazy timeof year on my end.
It's a crazy time of year.
Yeah.
You have children.
No, it's not that.
It's the children and too manychildren.
SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
Yeah, I have two.
I have two.
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
Damn, Harper.
I guess without one too many outof two.
Which one is too many?
So I can tell your niece ornephew which one was too much.
We know who you think is the toomany.
It's hard to do that.
No, the shop is popping, plus wehave the special edition boxes,
the standees, and just ingeneral, the holidays.
The holidays are always ourbusiest time.
(36:28):
Every other week.
And we and we can Yeah, andYeah, and then when things
lighten up, which they will,unless she does more stuff,
she's gonna do more stuff.
I can see it in her eyes.
When I said when things lightenup and she looked at me, like
you mean when I die?
I'm scared.
(36:49):
No, I know you don't.
You really don't.
Oh yeah, yeah.
I'm curious.
And what a week and a half,right?
I don't know.
It's it's an Allen wrench.
I don't know.
He's got so many things on hisdesk.
I don't there's so many thingsto play with, like this little
button thingy.
(37:09):
He's and he's on the spectrum.
Yeah, I I could diagnose himwith eight different things
right now.
I don't even remember what number we're on
anymore, so I'm just gonna say,hey guys, welcome to the Feral
Fandoms Podcast.
I'm only James, gay romanceauthor, fandom guru, just to the
stars.
And I'm here with my niece andmy co-host.
SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
I'm your niece today.
Oh, I love that.
It's because we're just comingoff Thanksgiving.
We're feeling like familybecause we just did a family
event.
Just Shannon, her niece.
That's it.
That's my intro.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
She's also my PM.
She's my claim.
My bodyguard at all the cons.
SPEAKER_01 (00:47):
Bodyguard.
Shop manager.
SPEAKER_00 (00:49):
Yes, definitely.
SPEAKER_01 (00:50):
Email.
Email writer.
Yeah.
Because we're giving me anxiety.
SPEAKER_00 (00:53):
The person who I send all the emails to before
I'm like saying stuff that'swrong.
Because I don't know what thathappens in the shop.
Oh my God.
I know so little about my ownbusiness that I had to provide
the copyright information for mybooks, for my Nola Harker books,
an agency that was asking aboutit.
(01:14):
And so I just put what I thoughtit would say.
And she's like, hey, no biggie,but in your books it says
something else.
And I was like, oh.
unknown (01:23):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (01:24):
Well, I'm sure the books are right because Molly
does those.
And she also does the copyright.
So when Molly says it's probablyright.
And whatever I say is just meguessing.
SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
In fact, Molly at onlyjames.com, you may want to
just call her.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
Yeah.
Who's like, I don't know whyyou're even asking me for
things.
Like to be honest.
I write the books and then I go,here you go.
I can't be held responsible foranything else.
Yeah.
unknown (01:47):
No.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
So anyway shop.
So today I thought we would talkabout heated rivalry since it is
literally everywhere.
It is all over.
SPEAKER_01 (01:58):
I do know a little bit about it.
So I do know that these werebooks, but they're traditionally
published.
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Yes, Karina Press, which is an offshoot of
Harlequin.
So it was released originally in2019.
Now I'm not super well versed inthe game changer series.
I know heated rivalry because itsits next to my books in a ton
of lists.
So I'm always like, oh hey.
Because it's a really cute andcartoon cover, level two hockey
(02:25):
cover.
SPEAKER_01 (02:26):
Which we love.
SPEAKER_00 (02:27):
Yeah.
We love cartoons.
SPEAKER_01 (02:29):
Um love cartoon covers.
SPEAKER_00 (02:31):
But yeah, so I'm always seeing it.
And I knew it was a hockey.
I don't do the sports ballromances, even hockey, which I
love.
Like I just, I don't know.
I'm just not at like a sportsromance.
Honestly, it's because there'sso much homophobia in a lot of
the sports romances.
Probably not anymore, but likewhen I first started reading it,
like and even in the show, likeevery single insult in the first
(02:52):
two episodes of the show waslike gay references.
SPEAKER_01 (02:56):
This is a male romance.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:58):
Yes.
But they're two hockey playersin an extraordinarily
testosterone-driven field.
So this is supposed to be takingplace originally.
The romance starts in 2008 andspans like 10 years.
That's right.
So when they first meet, they'reboth being drafted into the NFL.
And they're like the number onein both of their specific
(03:20):
wherever they're from, theirschools or wherever they're
playing.
And so, of course, they'reinstantly pitted against each
other.
Ooh, which one's better?
And right away, the beautifulRussian boy, Ilya, is very much
giving the wanna fuck energy tothe other guy who is just, bro,
(03:41):
we're in a locker room, and I'mnot sure you're serious right
now, and I don't want to get myass beat kind of energy.
SPEAKER_01 (03:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (03:47):
There's a lot of playing or like going around the
for at least.
But they have they literallyspan the first eight years in
episodes one and two.
That's how fast it time jumps.
It's just a boom-boom.
SPEAKER_01 (04:02):
It's not your whole career NFL career?
SPEAKER_00 (04:04):
You would think, but that's I guess that's probably
why she chose it like when themliterally getting drafted.
Okay.
So that they're really young, sothey can Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
I think like 32, you got that that brain problem.
SPEAKER_00 (04:16):
Yeah, I don't know.
Some of them go a long time.
Like, I don't think Wingfreaking retired until he was
practically actually retirementage.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
If I remember correctly, Wayne Gretzky kept
retiring and then coming back.
I thought that was hockey.
Oh, yeah.
Don't ask me about sports ball.
I don't know.
I know Travis Kelsey.
Ask me about Kelsey, brother.
I can tell you that.
That's it.
That's all I got.
SPEAKER_00 (04:40):
But I didn't none of us knew Heated Rivalry was even
coming up until, I don't know,maybe four months ago.
It could have even been.
What's it on?
SPEAKER_01 (04:48):
What's it streaming on?
SPEAKER_00 (04:49):
Okay, so it was originally to stream on Crave,
which is a Canadian channel.
But it blew up so hard on theinternet that HBO bought the
rights to it.
So it's on HBO Max.
Right?
Imagine your book blowing up tothe point where HBO is knocking
on your door.
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (05:08):
Imagine necessary evils on HBO.
But like eight like Game ofThrones level production.
SPEAKER_00 (05:13):
Yeah.
And that's what I okay.
So this is the thing.
Anytime there's a gay romanceand it's not cutesy like
Heartstopper or Love Simon,where it's just, oh, two little
teen boys falling in love.
Usually And that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
And we're okay with it.
SPEAKER_00 (05:31):
Yeah.
Usually it's shitty production.
Usually it's like actors who arelesser known, which these two
are also lesser known, butthey're phenomenal actors.
But like they just don't give itthe care it deserves.
And so with romance, you have tobe careful because if it's acted
poorly, it comes off as supercheesy.
It doesn't matter how good thebook is.
SPEAKER_01 (05:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
The dialogue, if it's said wrong, is gonna come
off so lame.
SPEAKER_01 (05:58):
Sometimes things in books come out better in your
brain and when you're reading itthan it would on the screen
because you have a lot morenarration in their head.
You're more invested.
SPEAKER_00 (06:08):
Right.
You're more invested.
You know what they're thinkingwhen it comes out of their mouth
versus you're just watching iton the screen and you have no
clue.
That's why I guess Ilya'sgetting a lot of hate, the
character, right now, becausethe people who read the books
understand where he's comingfrom.
He is Russian, his father islike extremely homophobic, like
he's domineering, he's always inhis face about if you don't win
every time you're a loser kindof thing.
(06:30):
So we have that kind of you getit in the show.
Like it's not like they'rehiding that part of it, but like
you're not in his head, likeliving it.
SPEAKER_01 (06:37):
That's always the problem with book to movie.
Always the problem with book tomovie.
SPEAKER_00 (06:40):
But they're doing a great job of giving you all of
the information, and that's Ithink why they didn't made it a
series and not books or not amovie, so that they could
actually take the time and dothe story.
These two acting it out, they'redoing such a good job.
I was actually genuinelyimpressed, not just because the
chemistry is there, but becausethey had to do some insanely
(07:05):
intimate scenes.
Like you've seen how high heatmy books are.
Rachel Reeds are no different,and the two actors are like on
camera everywhere, jokingaround.
They're like, oh, we put tonguesin places and we put they think
it's really they're hamming itup.
This is our first big role.
Um, but they did it all so well,and the chemistry is so there.
And Ilya is like very dominantand very gur, like the almost
(07:30):
morally gray, but not, and hepulls it off so well.
And in one interview, they askedHudson, who plays the
non-Russian, why he thought hischemistry worked so well with
Connor, who plays the other one.
And he was like, Oh, the otherguys were good, but Connor
looked like he wanted to throwme up against a wall and fuck
me.
And I was like, God, okay, heunderstood the assignment 100%.
(07:52):
He was like, I got this.
And apparently Connor's fromTexas, but he pulled off that
Russian like it was his job.
I don't know if he is Russian byway of Texas.
That's literally his job.
Yeah, that is his job.
SPEAKER_01 (08:05):
When acting is literally your job.
SPEAKER_00 (08:07):
Excellent work, Connor.
Good job.
SPEAKER_01 (08:08):
I love when I do my job, and you did it, Connor.
You did it.
SPEAKER_00 (08:12):
Good job.
But yeah, so the story's great.
The oh my god, thecinematography is beautiful.
And I think it has a lot to dowith the fact that the director
is gay.
Like, I think he put the careand effort into it because like
he was invested in the story.
And this is the problem now isthat they're facing backlash
(08:33):
because a lot of people arelike, gay actors should play gay
characters.
And the act and the and thedirector was like, hey, I'm not
legally allowed to asksomebody's sexuality before I
give them a job.
Like, it's illegal.
Right.
And he's as long as thechemistry is sold, and as long
as they take it seriously, andas long as they're not making
fun of the role, like actingexists, it's acting, or
(08:55):
pretending.
Yeah, and then on the writerside of it, a lot of male gay
romance authors are mad that awoman, yeah, her book was the
one that got chosen.
SPEAKER_01 (09:09):
It's that's we're we're never gonna beat that.
Yeah, this just is what it is,it's always gonna be there.
It's okay if we buy the books.
It's okay.
Yeah, we just can't write them.
SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Yeah.
But it's weird because all of usare low-key, probably a little
jealous of Rachel Reid right nowbecause we've all been.
She's on fucking HBO.
Yeah, what are you talkingabout?
Like, she's on fucking HBO.
But I'm just like, but see,that's good for everybody.
It's good for business.
(09:41):
That's more mainstream.
We are not lying.
My page reads are through thefucking roof.
I've never seen page reads likethis.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
She's because when they go to look up her book,
they you eventually are gonnaend up somewhere on their
algorithm.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah.
On a rising tide boosts allships or whatever.
Yeah.
And that's it.
Like she's doing well, andbecause of that, our whole genre
is being up now.
And so good for her.
Like, yeah, I don't begrudge herthat at all, but it's just crazy
that now all of a sudden thisbacklash and all of this like
attention and stuff.
I don't think she probablyanticipated just how fast and
(10:19):
how crazy it was gonna get.
And I wonder how she's handlingthat.
Because I think I would have tolog off.
SPEAKER_01 (10:27):
Yeah, I think I would just have to log off.
I would be like, send me my runme my check.
I'm deleting my Twitter and I'mjust gonna write some books.
SPEAKER_00 (10:36):
Yeah, I'm gonna be in my bubble.
I don't want to know.
I don't want to know.
SPEAKER_01 (10:40):
Like when anything's consumed on a massive stage or a
massive scale, there's alwaysgonna be haters, haters in the
industry, haters, people whojust don't want to see that type
of shit on screen, but like theycould just literally turn it
off.
They don't haters, actors, ohshe's a woman, this, that, or
whatever.
It is what it is.
Imagine if your stuff, becauseyour stuff's more taboo, more
(11:05):
not taboo, but it's just darker.
SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
It's just darker than uh I will say that this is
not a rom-com, which is goodbecause so many of the movies we
see, especially this time ofyear, any gay stories at all,
it's gonna be uber cutesy wholehallmarks, and that's great.
Don't get it twisted.
Like, that's great, yeah.
But like we never get anyvariety.
(11:27):
The Asian BLs is because theyspan every genre.
You get like your cutesy littleones, you get like your deep,
disturbing ones, you get thedark ones, you get mafia, you
get whatever.
Because they actually createdthis entire genre, like that BL
is what drives their economy, sothey put the time and effort
(11:48):
into it.
And honestly, this right now,the entertainment industry has
the opportunity to capitalize onthis the same way Asia has by
giving people what they want,and clearly people want more gay
and queer romances, like theyjust do, not as the side
character, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:08):
Not as the quirky side character, not as the city.
They're not giving it the sex inthe city, the sex in the city
treatment.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
I just I think we're all just tired of the
stereotypes, and it's nice tosee characters that aren't in
that same box all the timebecause it feels like in
Hollywood, especially, there'snothing new.
They just reboot the same moviesover and over again, the same
framework over and over again.
Literally, yeah, and nobody'sgoing to the movies anymore.
(12:35):
Everything's streamed now.
So they have an opportunity, andI don't know if they'll take it,
but I can tell you that I'veseen so many people on threads
being like, I'm gonna write myown gay romance now.
I've seen like just so manypeople be like, Yeah, yeah, oh,
I'm getting ready to write minenow.
And I'm like, Great, do it, doit.
Like, fucking, I think it's Ithink it's good for all of us,
(12:57):
really.
SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
But it is a hundred percent because well, especially
for you.
SPEAKER_00 (13:02):
But it's so intense.
It's so intense.
When I say I can't scroll awhole page without seeing heated
rivalry, I'm not kidding.
Like, I have a feeling in threeweeks I'm gonna be like, if
somebody says heated rivalry tome one more time, I'm gonna
start twitching.
SPEAKER_01 (13:17):
Is it all out?
Is the whole series out or arethey doing it in?
SPEAKER_00 (13:20):
It releases every Friday.
I almost just waited and bingedit, but then that is what I like
to do.
Yeah, but then the reactor thatI usually watch stuff with was
like, Oh, I'm gonna watch thefirst two.
And I was like, ah shit.
All right, I'll watch it becauseI wanted to watch his reactions
too, because I hadn't seen it.
And this is one of the firstones that I'm like watching
where I'm not watching it firstand then watching it again with
(13:42):
somebody else.
And right, I was shook, I wasblushing, and it takes a lot.
I used to work for a porncompany, it's hard to make me
blush.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
You also come up with some blushworthy scenes
yourself, but watching them getacted out, and that's the thing.
SPEAKER_00 (13:59):
If my book ever got made into a movie, I don't think
I could watch it.
I can't even listen to myaudiobooks.
Watching two people out, my god,I would kill myself.
I like I my secondhandembarrassment, it wouldn't even
be secondhand, it'd be firsthand embarrassment this time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:13):
My god, your readers would love it, but they would
also like good luck to whoeverproduces it, directs it, because
they're gonna be like five, six,seven, eight.
Good luck.
SPEAKER_00 (14:22):
Yeah, my readers like actually to my face.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But like a guy said to meyesterday, he was like, So
when's your book coming out as amovie?
And I was like, bro, do youthink I just have HBO on speed
dial?
And I'm like, you know what,guys, I'm gonna give it to you
this time.
SPEAKER_01 (14:37):
Netflix, HBO, please, ladies.
It doesn't happen.
Well, and for an indie book,that would be really cool.
SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
Yeah, it would be crazy.
And I think that's what a lot ofpeople don't understand is like
the downside of Tradpub is thatyou make shit money if you're
not selling shows.
Yeah, the upside is that youhave a much bigger audience
because you're exposed in a lotmore.
SPEAKER_01 (15:04):
There's a reason heated rivalry is so red because
yeah, and there's 50 peopletrying to make deals for you
that you don't even know what'sgoing on.
You don't even she probablydidn't even know that was oh,
she probably had an idea it wasin motion, but she's doesn't
have to do doesn't have to do isdifferent.
She doesn't have to do what youhave to do, which is literally
create.
SPEAKER_00 (15:25):
She has an agent.
I guarantee you she has like andHarlequin's making the deals
because Harlequin owns therights.
And Harlequin has a much biggerto bring to the table than you
know any of us, even RachelReed.
Like Rachel Reed's not callingup HBO or quick, it's whoever
works with her.
(15:45):
And like my entertainmentattorney also works as an agent,
and there's avenues to getthere, but it's just a much
harder sell as an indie than beas a trad pub.
But inverse of that is that Imake seven figures a year, and
75% of that, so my 90% of herroyalties for her.
And the characters are yours.
(16:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
You could do HBO and then it would be your deal to
make, not hard.
SPEAKER_00 (16:11):
Like, I mean, it's not like Rachel Reed didn't get
money from everybody like forher story.
They optioned the rights to thatstory.
So I'm sure she as a person,they are still her characters,
she's probably doing just fineuh financially.
SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
I ain't worried about her.
She couldn't.
I'm a little worried.
She probably didn't know thatshow was gonna blow up like
that, which is like amazing andfun, and you love to see it, but
also the internet is so scaryand people are so fucking mean.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
I know, but that's why like the bigger my TikTok
gets, I'm like, oh, I don't wantit to get too big.
I don't want people to be too, Idon't want too many people to
notice because then it becamethen it becomes troll territory,
and it's just it's hard.
It's hard on the it's hard outon these streets.
SPEAKER_01 (16:52):
It's hard out here on these streets.
The good news is like you're youdon't really have uh anything
terrible to up if they're MAGA,then they're gonna think you're
terrible.
But you've been on that wokeshit since the 90s, so they
really couldn't find anything onyou like that.
SPEAKER_00 (17:09):
I mean, there is I do tend to run my mouth, so I'm
sure I've misspoken, I'm sureI've made errors, like but it
was never racist or homophobic.
SPEAKER_01 (17:18):
You might have said something.
I can't imagine that I would.
Like, no, you never did.
I say I've been tracking youhere.
For you, girl.
I was like, that ain't themeanest shit you ever said.
It's the meanest shit you eversaid that was like out of
pocket, yeah.
For depending on who you are andwhat you're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:35):
Yeah, normally I write a post, I read it, I
reread it, I read it again.
Half the time I delete it andjust move on.
SPEAKER_01 (17:43):
Now, when it's not just you and 50 of your closest
friends and family.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
No, I save all my shit talking for the DMs.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
And usually an audio file.
Yeah, they'll find a way toexpose that too.
Uh all my shit's in the commentsections of TikTok.
Find me.
SPEAKER_00 (17:58):
Well, I know you keep getting banned.
SPEAKER_01 (18:05):
At some point, they're just gonna ban your IP
address or and your phone's likematerial number.
You know what?
And my productivity is gonna gothrough the roof.
SPEAKER_00 (18:15):
What happened?
Oh, nothing.
I was just I was checking.
Sorry.
Sorry.
Like I said, I'm both slightlyjealous and not at all of the
attention.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
So she's on HBO, but then you're on HBO.
SPEAKER_00 (18:29):
Yeah.
It's like it's like being anattention whore, but at the same
time being terrified ofattention is a weird thing.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Not good at critic.
I'm really not good atcriticism.
That's why I don't createanything.
SPEAKER_00 (18:41):
Except for I suck at criticism.
I just don't look at it.
SPEAKER_01 (18:44):
Yeah.
That is what you have to do.
SPEAKER_00 (18:47):
Yeah.
If I did, I would never writeagain.
Like, yeah, I have to tellmyself all the time like you
can't make everybody happy.
Like, not everybody's gonna likeyour story, not everybody is
meant to be the person who readsyour books, like, you know.
And some people live opinions ofme is none of my business.
SPEAKER_01 (19:05):
180 million percent that is the case.
And your readers aren't yourreaders' levy.
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
Yeah, my readers do, which is crazy, but I appreciate
it.
Let's just go back to uh heatedrivalry.
SPEAKER_01 (19:18):
Heated rivalry.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
If Netflix and HBO are smart, they're already
working on like a gay romancedivision.
SPEAKER_01 (19:27):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:28):
And I think this came about because they were
probably looking for somethingBridgerton-like that they could
like capitalize on.
SPEAKER_01 (19:35):
What's your dreamcast?
Book one, Unhinged.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
See, it's hard because it's been so long now,
but like originally Noah wasbased on Froy Gutierrez, who by
the way, who by the way, hisaunt reads my books.
And she told him what did hesay?
He's like, Oh, really?
That's hilarious.
Okay.
And she screenshotted it andsent it to me.
I love it.
She's like, Yeah, he thought itwas really funny, you know.
(20:00):
And now, of course, he's comeout, so that actually makes it
even better.
Because he wasn't out when Ioriginally cast him.
He is a little old for Noah nowbecause he's in his 30s and
Noah's supposed to be in hisearly 20s.
Yeah.
But I well, not that Freud lookslike he's in his I, you know,
but anyway, but he was myoriginal for Noah.
I don't know, I don't know a lotof the younger actors now, so I
(20:22):
don't even know what do someunknowns.
Yeah, I think we would have togo for a completely unknown
cast.
Also, because I don't think alot of big name actors would
agree to the smut level that isin Unhinged.
SPEAKER_01 (20:39):
Which which you cannot let go of.
And then, so what is what's ourproduction style?
Like we go in the who was thatCassie.
Who were those people?
God Sydney Sweeney was in it.
That's how she got famous, theshow.
Oh.
And anyway.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
Mean girls?
No, well, no, that was the othergirl, Frenet, whatever.
No, what the hell was the nameof that movie?
SPEAKER_01 (21:02):
It's a show, and they're all in high school.
Anyway, so that's a super realor it's super realistic.
We're going like a little bitmore.
It's Sydney Sweeney and theZendaya.
And oh, oh, oh, oh, euphoria.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:19):
Damn it.
I don't know why I couldn'tthink of that.
And I watched the first seasonof Euphoria.
SPEAKER_01 (21:25):
They're gonna be like 47.
They're gonna be like 47 by thetime the show's over.
SPEAKER_00 (21:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:32):
It takes so long to get new seasons out of things.
It takes so much.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
But it's crazy though, because Euphoria was
depressing as fuck.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (21:41):
You know who the scariest character in Euphoria
was Zendaya's drug dealer?
The like housewife lady.
Dude, like she was so creepy.
SPEAKER_00 (21:51):
I was so worried for the the trans girl all the time.
Yeah.
I was so worried for her becauseI didn't know where they
intended to go with it.
And they always tend tobrutalize the trans girl, you
know?
Like it's always like becausethey are at higher risk of being
uh like abused.
So I was like, oh, are theygonna go hyper-realistic?
(22:13):
And is it gonna be like and Imean she did get into some
situations that were like theyall did in the show, yeah, yeah,
yeah.
Yeah, but they were all equalopportunity, like bad things
happening.
But I still was mostly worriedabout her because I was just
like, oh, it's so dangerous.
Like every time she left thehouse, I was like, oh god, is
this the episode where somethingbad happens to her?
SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
But if if so unhinged would be season one,
right?
We have all the boys season two,yeah, yeah.
Psycho BC.
SPEAKER_00 (22:43):
See, that's the problem, is though, if they they
cast Unhinged, they would haveto cast the entire series in the
beginning in advance.
SPEAKER_01 (22:53):
How involved, how involved would you want to be?
Are you on set?
Are you in the are you in thedialogue writing room or are you
just I trust you, run me myworld?
SPEAKER_00 (23:05):
I don't think there's a world where they could
let me.
SPEAKER_01 (23:08):
Hail Mary guy, I forget his name, somebody whale,
I think, but I read Hail Mary,and he's like on set.
He did the Mar The Martian too.
SPEAKER_00 (23:18):
Right, but isn't he also a trad pub author?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With a huge following, superhuge, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:26):
He's a New York Times bestseller.
I am not perfect world.
We're talking, we're in fantasyland.
Okay.
So in a couple of things.
Come with me.
Our feet are off planet earth.
We're we are cat we're casted,and then they're like, all
right, Martina, or only James.
Are you interested?
How deep into it do you want tobe?
Or would you rather get ageneral idea of the direction
(23:47):
they're going, or do you wantthem to use your dialogue?
SPEAKER_00 (23:51):
Oh no, I definitely want I don't, I mean, it doesn't
have to be exact, obviously,because just for time
constraints alone, they wouldprobably have to make some
things, or maybe not, maybethey'll just do a six-episode
series too.
Uh more than anything, I think Iwould just have uh like
provisions in place.
You can't change this, you can'tchange this.
SPEAKER_01 (24:10):
What if they wanted to make switch some genders?
SPEAKER_00 (24:15):
No.
SPEAKER_01 (24:16):
Yeah.
What if they wanted to makeFreckles a girl?
No, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:22):
There's no changing their genders, there's no
changing their sexualities.
Okay.
They can change ethnicities.
I don't care.
Yeah, I don't care about that.
It doesn't just apply.
You're more you want to makesure that's what they're doing.
They're all adopted, they don'tneed to look alike.
Right, exactly.
You know, and if they found anactor of a different ethnicity
who they thought just reallyembodied, yeah.
Great, fantastic, do it.
(24:42):
Like, I'm never going to be thatlike crazy about it.
I mean, obviously with Freckles,like, I'm, you know, he's a
redhead.
Like he's a very pale redhead.
Yeah.
Like, you know, and a lot of theethnicities, like both Felix and
Jericho, because they'rebrothers, are both half Chinese,
half Mexican.
I don't think you're going to belike, hi, we're only casting
half Chinese, half Mexicans.
SPEAKER_01 (25:01):
So how much of the lot do you think they'd be
willing to let go of?
What if they said, what if theytone down some of the badness of
the bad guys that get bad thingshappen to them?
What if they wanted to lightenit up?
SPEAKER_00 (25:12):
I don't think they would do that because like then
they would like it wouldn't beas morally gray.
Right.
You know what I mean?
It would be more like these guysare just, you know, they're not
killing for a speeding ticket.
You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01 (25:23):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (25:24):
So I think it would be.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_01 (25:28):
Like, so you would want to be pretty involved in it
because you'd be like, actually,no, actually, or would they
change like the vibe of acharacter just by switching up
some of the dialogue, you knowwhat I mean?
SPEAKER_00 (25:39):
Yeah, it's really hard to say.
Like, even now in HeatedRivalry, in the book, why can I
not remember the other maincharacter's name?
Hudson is the actor, Hudson'smom in the show, makes this kind
of like offhand homophobic joke,and not even a homophobic joke.
She says something along thelines of, you know, fuck him,
fuck him in the ass in anegative, go fuck yourself kind
(26:01):
of way.
And in the books, she's justsuper supportive, pro LGBT
hockey mom.
And so a lot of people were kindof taken aback by that because
they were like, oh, are theygonna make her more of
supervillain in this one?
Or are they gonna make lesssupportive?
A lot of people just were like,eh.
And then a lot of people weremad because in sorry guys, a
(26:23):
little bit of a spoiler.
Turn it off.
I'll tell you when you can turnit back on.
Oh, wait, I can't, never mind.
Yeah, but in episode two, one ofthem, Ilya's supposed to meet up
with the other guy, but there'sa blizzard, so he can't go.
When he gets home, his what Ithought might be his girlfriend,
but I think is now more like achildhood friend, is waiting
there wearing nothing but hishockey jersey, and they end up
(26:46):
banging on the table.
But they're not in arelationship yet.
The two guys aren't in arelationship yet.
They're kind of doing this weirdon again, off again.
They haven't even slepttogether, just kind of fooled
around.
So in it's in the book, likeit's true to the narrative, but
in my world, if I ever, everattempted to put my character
(27:09):
with another person after theother main character's already
been introduced, they would slipmy fucking throat.
If Adam fucked somebody elseafter meeting Noah, done.
Nobody would ever read anotherone of my books ever again.
Ever.
So they're very attached.
Yeah, to me, I would be, I waslike kind of shocked by that.
And some people were like, Yeah,I wish they had cut that
(27:31):
particular part out.
Yeah.
Which is kind of funny.
SPEAKER_01 (27:34):
So I wonder how involved she is.
So because she's traditionallypublished, she probably has less
of a say, you think?
SPEAKER_00 (27:41):
I don't know.
I don't know how that would be.
We don't know that we don'tyeah.
I think basically the more yousell, the more power you have,
you know, because HBO wasn'tinvolved from the jump, Crave
was.
Crave is from what I I don'treally know much about Crave,
but it sounds like their wholegenre is just romance.
Like they just make romancemovies.
SPEAKER_01 (27:59):
Love it.
SPEAKER_00 (28:00):
Good for them.
They were probably very much ontask.
Like they probably knew exactlywhat they wanted to do going
into this.
SPEAKER_01 (28:07):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (28:08):
And it seemed like they really wanted to stay true
to the actual story.
And they must have had a goodenough reputation where
Harlequin felt comfortablehanding over the story that it
wasn't gonna be super cheesy andlame and badly acted,
showgirl-esque, with acting socringe, you just want to cry.
It wasn't gonna be 365.
It wasn't gonna be somethingthat the internet watched in
(28:29):
secret or made a joke out of.
It was gonna be a good movie orshow.
Sorry, I keep calling it amovie.
It's gonna be a good show.
So maybe Rachel just didn't haveuh much to complain about from
the jump.
So I don't really know.
I'm sure eventually she'll crawlout of she'll crawl out of
whatever you're doing fine,Rachel.
She's hiding everything orwhatever.
SPEAKER_01 (28:51):
You got a show on HBO, girl.
Don't let the haters get youdown.
I support you.
SPEAKER_00 (28:56):
I mean, she might be loving it.
She might, I mean, I don't know,Rachel.
I've heard from a bunch of otherpeople who do know her that
she's super nice, that she'svery kind.
And I mean, that's always goodbecause you never know.
You want the right peoplegetting famous, but it doesn't
always happen.
But you never know it goes on inpeople's houses.
But like I said, since the firstepisode dropped, my page reads
(29:20):
on Amazon have tripled.
Tripled.
SPEAKER_01 (29:26):
I love it.
SPEAKER_00 (29:26):
Like I had 300,000 page reads for yesterday.
Yesterday.
SPEAKER_01 (29:32):
Damn.
SPEAKER_00 (29:33):
Yeah.
One day.
There was a time when that wasmy whole month.
SPEAKER_01 (29:38):
That'd be great though.
Now I hope that come over to thewebsite.
Come, darlings.
SPEAKER_00 (29:44):
Come to play.
SPEAKER_01 (29:47):
Come to Patreon where I have more We've got
acrylic stick.
SPEAKER_00 (29:51):
That's how we lure them in.
Do you want to love acrylicstick?
We've got sweatshirts.
SPEAKER_01 (29:59):
We've got hats.
SPEAKER_00 (30:00):
Yeah.
This is why Rachel Reed has ashow and I'm a busy showing.
We've got mugs.
SPEAKER_01 (30:08):
Technically, I'm shilling them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:11):
Yeah, it's true.
I'm just like, hey, it's overhere if you want it.
And I'm like, get out of here.
They love you.
They fucking love you more thanthey love me.
That's not true.
SPEAKER_01 (30:21):
That's not true.
SPEAKER_00 (30:22):
Uh somebody literally emailed me and was
like, what can I do for Shannon?
Because I just wanted to knowhow much I appreciate everything
she does for me.
SPEAKER_01 (30:29):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_00 (30:30):
And I was like, Did you send her my cash out?
I'm kidding.
I was like, I was like, well,what do you what do you want to
do for her?
I was like, do you want to sendher like a digital gift card?
Do you like, what are you askingme?
SPEAKER_01 (30:43):
Somebody asked me if I got a Dunkin' Donuts gift
card, and I forgot to respond toher because I didn't.
SPEAKER_00 (30:48):
Oh.
Because I think she emailed, shewanted to email you something,
and I was like, listen, she's aDunkin' girl.
So if you're gonna send hersomething, then Duncan is
probably the best way to do it.
Because if you try to send heranything too expensive, she's
probably not gonna take it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:03):
Oh, that's so sweet.
I need to respond to her.
I thought I think I thoughtbecause I read it on my phone.
I was like, I think she meant tosend that to someone else
because I didn't get a I didn'tget a gift card.
Maybe it got in your maybe it'sin your spam folder.
Might be.
Oh, they're so sweet.
They really do send me loveletters.
I'm not gonna lie to you.
I'm telling you, they send youlove letters.
They really love you.
They tell me all the time.
That's really nice of thembecause sometimes that'll be
(31:23):
taking a long time to give themtheir stuff.
But you know what?
I'm pretty real with them whenthey email me, and I'm like,
yeah.
See what happened.
What had happened was I shouldhave been done ordered.
SPEAKER_00 (31:32):
You may take forever sometimes, but at least we're
honest.
I'll be gonna get your shit.
Like I will never get it.
SPEAKER_01 (31:38):
I'll never scam you, baby.
You gonna get it, and it's gonnacome with stickers and a
bookmark and all kinds of stuff.
I do try, I do stay within,usually I do stay within the
exactly the time frame that Ido.
SPEAKER_00 (31:54):
You're not the problem.
I'm the problem because I'm theone who's in control of like the
book boxes, the artwork,everything like that.
And sometimes, like this yearwas a complete clusterfuck
because of the whole artistsituation.
SPEAKER_01 (32:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (32:06):
If I hadn't had that whole snafu with the artist, we
probably would have put outthree book boxes this year.
But 100% once one thing fallsapart, yeah, everything else
just grinds to a halt.
That's the problem with a bookbox.
Well, they're gonna get unhingedbefore before Christmas.
So that'll be nice.
They will.
And then we can then we'll goback to business as usual.
SPEAKER_01 (32:27):
And the Standees once though, yeah, we'll be
we'll be up to date, girly pop.
And then next one's Barbarian.
Which they got hella confused.
I don't know who posted in themotherfucking group about the
hundred dollar box and givingaway the mug, but you fucked up
my Tuesday, so bad.
SPEAKER_00 (32:45):
I'm like, you're it's for the Yeah, they they
didn't understand.
SPEAKER_01 (32:49):
I was like Sin Eater, which I kept saying it
was a Sin Eater box on theFacebook, and you're asking
about barbers.
SPEAKER_00 (33:00):
I'm like, guys, you're you're freaking out over
nothing.
If you don't pay a hundreddollars a month to me, you're
not getting that big box.
Like, I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_01 (33:08):
Minimum.
There is no Sin Eater specialedition box.
First of all, no, it doesn'texist yet.
Not yet.
SPEAKER_00 (33:15):
There will be.
SPEAKER_01 (33:16):
There will be.
SPEAKER_00 (33:17):
We did the barbarian.
SPEAKER_01 (33:18):
Why I don't know why we're having the barbarian
conversation.
I was so confused.
I'm like, who's giving awaywhat?
Because they're liars.
SPEAKER_00 (33:25):
Yeah, it's it's fucking madness.
No, but anyway, I think we'veexhausted this topic and we've
bored people to death with myback office stories.
SPEAKER_01 (33:35):
People like this is an author podcast, okay?
And they might hire.
SPEAKER_00 (33:42):
It's probably why we're listening.
I don't know.
We're doing our at least I knowthe people on Patreon are
listening because they read mybooks, but I don't know if
anybody else is.
Oh, yeah, no, a lot of peopleare listening, but I doubt that
they're all just readers.
I'm sure somebody actually wantsactual information about this
actual information.
SPEAKER_01 (34:02):
This is back of the house.
This is what you gotta get yourhands dirty, baby.
You're trying to ship somebooks, okay?
You want a garage full of shit?
Yes, yeah.
Okay.
You wanna know what it's like?
You wanna know what it's like inthese streets?
I'll take you to my garage.
It's 20 motherfucking degreesout there.
I'm gonna be in there for twohours today.
SPEAKER_00 (34:21):
Oh, I didn't even think about that.
Oh shit.
SPEAKER_01 (34:23):
No, no, no, no, no, it's fine.
No, it's fine.
Actually, I'm gonna order alittle heater for out there
because I don't package thebooks out there.
SPEAKER_00 (34:30):
I try and bring the order inside, but I will say,
since we're about to wrap up, Iam dropping my Patreon course a
lesson at a time on the Patreonfor Burned Out Muse.
So if you are interested inlearning how I make$25,000 a
month off my Patreon, it's areally good course.
(34:50):
You only pay$25 a month for thattier, and you'll get all of the
information dripped to you,including all the bonus stuff
and all the workbook stuff.
So it's just patreon.com slashthe burned outmuse, and you can
get access to all that and abunch of other author good
stuff, lessons, uh bonusepisodes of the podcast.
(35:12):
I've put all of the Patreonepisodes as podcast episodes
too.
So if you don't want to watchthe basically, you're just gonna
be looking at a PowerPointbecause I hid my face.
But if you don't want to justlook at a PowerPoint, you can
just listen to it on your way towork, whatever.
So I've tried to make it asaccessible as possible.
(35:32):
And if you don't want to do anyof that, you can buy it for 10
bucks a piece off of Patreonjust one lesson at a time.
So if there's my spiel.
But yeah, other than on you.
Oh, and we're doing podcastsevery other week now.
SPEAKER_01 (35:47):
Oh, I didn't know that.
It's a crazy time of year.
Girl, and it that's a crazy timeof year on my end.
It's a crazy time of year.
Yeah.
You have children.
No, it's not that.
It's the children and too manychildren.
SPEAKER_00 (36:02):
Yeah, I have two.
I have two.
I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_01 (36:05):
Damn, Harper.
I guess without one too many outof two.
Which one is too many?
So I can tell your niece ornephew which one was too much.
We know who you think is the toomany.
It's hard to do that.
No, the shop is popping, plus wehave the special edition boxes,
the standees, and just ingeneral, the holidays.
The holidays are always ourbusiest time.
(36:28):
Every other week.
And we and we can Yeah, andYeah, and then when things
lighten up, which they will,unless she does more stuff,
she's gonna do more stuff.
I can see it in her eyes.
When I said when things lightenup and she looked at me, like
you mean when I die?
I'm scared.
(36:49):
No, I know you don't.
You really don't.
Oh yeah, yeah.
I'm curious.
And what a week and a half,right?
I don't know.
It's it's an Allen wrench.
I don't know.
He's got so many things on hisdesk.
I don't there's so many thingsto play with, like this little
button thingy.
(37:09):
He's and he's on the spectrum.
Yeah, I I could diagnose himwith eight different things
right now.
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