October 30, 2025 • 27 mins
There have been some incredible developments these last two months in the fight against forced scamming. For the first time, the world’s most powerful governments are beginning to treat this crisis not as a distant crime, but as a global human rights emergency — one that can be fought with the same tools once used against war criminals and oligarchs. At the centre of that strategy is a man named Bill Browder.
From Washington to Phnom Penh, this episode follows how the same weapon Browder helped create is being turned on the crime bosses and corrupt officials profiting from human trafficking and forced scamming in Cambodia.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:07):
One of the main questions I've been asked since
the release of Escaping ScamCity is this.
Is there anything that ourgovernments can do to stop these
guys?
These criminal kingpinsprofiting off the misery of so
many.
I get it.
There's a particular kind offrustration that comes from
(00:29):
watching gross injustice unfoldsomewhere you can't reach.
When you can see it happening.
The trafficking, the torture,the scams, but it's happening in
another country.
And it's even more maddeningwhen that injustice isn't just
hurting their people, it'sreaching back across borders,
(00:51):
stealing from yours too.
And then there's the final gutpunch, when the country itself,
the one where this is allhappening, isn't just turning a
blind eye.
It's cashing in.
In places with police forces,ministries, and courts that
should be shutting them down.
And yet, nothing.
(01:12):
Or worse, denials.
Sweeping, aggressive insult yourintelligence denials.
You remember how our seriesproducer Jake published his
paper in May?
The one called Policies andPatterns: State-abetted
Transnational Crime in Cambodiaas a global security threat.
(01:35):
Well, hot on its heels, theCambodian government came out
swinging.
In a three-page press release,the Ministry of Interior accused
the report of being, quote,exaggerated, unprofessional, and
unsubstantiated.
It claimed that Jake and histeam had, quote, fabricated
(01:55):
facts and slandered seniorgovernment officials, describing
his findings as, again, quote,based on hallucinations and
imagination.
In short, they said, you've gotit all wrong.
There's nothing to see here.
It's next level gaslighting.
(02:18):
So then, what are you meant todo?
What can the so-called victimcountries, the ones having their
money stolen, countries like theUS, actually do?
Well, the good news is there area few levers that can be pulled
to fight back.
If the appetite is there.
And the even better news is thatin the past month or so, they've
(02:42):
started to be pulled.
And what's happened is a verybig deal.
SPEAKER_04 (02:47):
Yes, it's enormously significant.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
Jake's gonna help us unpack some of the exciting
things that have happened.
But first, to understand whatsome of those levers are, and
actually how they came to be, weneed to step away from Cambodia
for a moment.
We actually need to look at whathappened in Russia back in
November of 2008.
That was the month a Russian taxlawyer named Sergei Magnitsky
(03:11):
was thrown into a Moscow prison,charged with tax evasion.
A year later, he was dead.
At the time, Russian authoritiessaid he died of heart failure,
natural causes.
In other words, nothing to seehere.
But the truth, as multipleinvestigations would later
(03:32):
prove, was far darker.
Sergei Megnitsky had beentortured for 358 days.
And on November the 16th, in2009, he was beaten badly by
eight riot guards with therubber batons.
He was denied medical care andhe died alone in his cell.
(03:55):
Seems pretty extreme for taxevasion, doesn't it?
Well, the real reason Sergei wasin that cell was because he
uncovered one of the largest taxfrauds in Russian history.
You see, Sergei had been workingfor an American investor who ran
Hermitage Capital Management,the biggest foreign investment
(04:16):
fund in Russia at the time.
In 2007, Russian officialsraided the offices of Hermitage.
And soon after, those sameofficials that did the raid used
C's documents from the raid toorchestrate a$230 million tax
scam, basically stealing publicmoney from the Russian treasury.
(04:36):
Sergei discovered the fraud andtraced it back to the senior
officials and then testifiedagainst them.
A few months later, those samemen had him arrested.
Sergei's client, the Americaninvestor, wasn't in the country
at the time of Sergei's death.
He'd already been banned fromentering Russia, declared a
(04:58):
quote, threat to nationalsecurity.
But it devastated him.
And it completely changed thecourse of his life.
That client's name is BillBrowder.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
Yeah, so my name is Bill Browder.
I'm the head of the GlobalMagnitsky Justice Campaign.
And for the last 15 years, I'vebeen working on holding Vladimir
Putin and his uh regimeaccountable for human rights
abuse.
It all stemmed from the murderof my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky.
(05:35):
He was 37 years old.
He left a wife and two children.
Since his murder, um, it'sbecome my full-time life mission
to go after the people whokilled him to make sure they
face justice.
And in doing so, the um the onetype of justice that we could
successfully get was a piece oflegislation called the Magnitsky
(05:58):
Act, named after SergeiMagnitsky, which imposes visa
bans and asset freezes on thepeople who killed him and the
people who commit other humanrights abuses, similar human
rights abuses.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
The Magnitsky Act was passed in 2012.
Up until this point, sanctionswere, generally speaking, a
blunt instrument.
Governments punished othercountries, not the people
running them.
If a regime was corrupt orviolent, the whole nation paid
the price.
Trade cut off, banks frozen,ordinary people suffering, while
(06:34):
the powerful, the ones actuallyresponsible, usually found a way
to keep getting richer.
The Magnitsky Act changed that.
It flipped the whole idea ofsanctions on its head.
Instead of punishing a country,it targeted the individuals, the
ones who actually profit fromcorruption and abuse, and it
(06:57):
targeted their entities.
It was like turning a shotguninto a sniper rifle, and it gave
the world a new way to go afterthose who'd always been
untouchable.
It lets governments freezeassets and ban visas for people
involved in serious corruptionor abuse, no matter where in the
(07:17):
world it happened.
It's one of the few tools thatcan actually make powerful
people feel consequences forwhat they've done.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
And the Magnitsky Act was first passed in the
United States in 2012, signed byPresident Obama.
It then went to Canada in 2017,the UK in 2018, the European
Union in 2020, Australia in2021, and various other
(07:47):
countries in between.
And there are now 35 countriesaround the world that have a
Magnitsky Act.
It doesn't just apply toRussians, it applies to
perpetrators of human rightsabuse everywhere.
And it's um uh if if there everwas a something that could go
viral um in the world of humanrights, the Magnitsky Act is it.
(08:08):
It provides a platform and a umlegal mechanism for victims of
human rights abuse to go afteruh the perpetrators, and the
perpetrators from most in mostcountries and most situations
have enjoyed absolute impunityup until the Magnitsky Act uh
became a uh form of legislation.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
For much of this year, there's been a sense of
disappointment, even anger,amongst those fighting forced
scamming.
The US, once seen as a drivingglobal force for good, had
started to retreat.
USAID was dismantled, keyfunding streams were dried up,
(08:52):
and America's role as a moralleader in the fight against this
evil seemed to be fading.
Which made what happened inSeptember just so surprising.
In the US, the Department ofTreasury has a branch called the
(09:13):
Office of Foreign AssetsControl, or OFAC.
It's OFAC that implements andenforces sanctions.
In the human rights world,whenever OFAC sanctions are
mentioned in a Treasury pressrelease, people sit up and pay
attention.
And on September the 8th of thisyear, well, that's exactly what
(09:35):
happened.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Today, the Department of the Treasury's
Office of Foreign AssetsControl, OFAC, implemented
sanctions against a largenetwork of scam centers across
Southeast Asia that stealbillions of dollars from
Americans using forced labor andviolence.
The action includes 10 targetsbased in Cambodia.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
As you can imagine, people rush to see who and what
entities are on the list.
We and our production team heldour breath as we scrolled down
the names.
And to our great delight, there,halfway down the page, was KB
Hotel Co Limited, aka Kaibo.
(10:20):
Kaibo, of course, being thescamming compound Michael was
sold to after leaving DV.
It was designated by OFAC as acasino-turned criminal compound.
In addition, its co-founder wasalso sanctioned.
Unfortunately, there was nomention of DV Casino or Xinjiang
(10:41):
Hotel, and there are many, manyothers that are not on the list.
But by all accounts, this wasstill a very big step.
SPEAKER_04 (10:51):
And you know, one of the things that we've talked
about here and that I a lot ofmy work has focused on is that
the need for accountability tobe injected into these spaces
where there just doesn't exist.
And sanctions is the first andlowest hanging fruit way and
opportunity to do that.
And so the sanctions that camedown, including against the
(11:12):
compound where Micah was held,um, are really, really
important.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
And hang on, it gets even better.
On September 18, just 10 dayslater, a new bill in the US was
introduced.
The Dismantle Foreign ScamSyndicates Act.
It calls for a nationalstrategy, dedicated funding, and
critically sanctions on 43transnational criminals driving
(11:40):
Southeast Asia's online scamindustry.
Representative Shreve is thesponsor for the act.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
To investigate Chinese Communist Party
involvement, to support foreignlaw enforcement partners, to
deploy offensivecybercapabilities, and finally
to unite our allies againstthese transnational syndicates.
This is not just consumer fraud,it's organized crime, it's
counter to national security andhuman rights, all rolled into
(12:18):
one.
I urge support for this Mr.
Chairman.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
This was another huge win in the fight against
this industry.
It's the kind of unified,coordinated action people like
Aaron West have been calling forsince the beginning.
With the sanctions, and now theintroduction of this act,
momentum was building.
And then, the very next day,September the 19th, the US
(12:46):
government released its 2025Trafficking in Persons or TIP
report.
Now, a bit of context here.
This report comes out everyyear, usually by the end of
June, and it's become one of themost powerful tools for holding
governments accountable.
So, for this year, when June 30came and went without its
(13:08):
release, many in theanti-trafficking world started
to worry that it had beenshelved for good.
Then finally, it came out.
And when it did, there was abombshell in sight.
Cambodia was listed, because ofthese scamming compounds, as one
of the world's 13 state sponsorsof human trafficking.
(13:31):
The report publicly accused theCambodian government of
complicity, saying officialsweren't just ignoring the
crimes, but in many cases werecolluding with the perpetrators
and profiting from the scamindustry.
(14:00):
We weren't to know it at thetime, but this report was paving
the way for the next quiteastonishing move from the US.
But before we get to that, let'sjust pause for a moment here.
Because these are some prettymajor victories.
And none of them would existwithout the brave storytellers
who've risked so much to speakout.
(14:23):
People like Micah and Ava,who've been inside.
Like Mek Daro who spent yearsinvestigating the compounds.
And Shy, who's walked, and isstill walking, the long road to
financial recovery.
These are ordinary people doingsomething extraordinary.
(14:44):
Standing up to tell the truthabout what they've seen, what
they've lived through.
Truth telling is one of the mostformidable weapons in the fight
against injustice.
And it's something that BillBrowder knows all too well.
Because when he first set out tofight for justice, he didn't
have political power or legaltraining or a network of
(15:06):
activists behind him.
All he had was a story.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
I came to the world of human rights in a totally
different way than almosteverybody else comes to the
world of human rights.
I I can remember when I um wasinvited to testify at the human
rights subcommittee at the Houseof Representatives.
And I showed up there and I hadno experience with any of this
stuff.
I came to the world of humanrights as a hedge fund manager
(15:34):
whose lawyer was murdered.
I had no training in law, I hadno training in politics, I had
no training in human rights, andI was invited to this testimony,
and um uh and there were sixfive other people, six of us in
total, and nobody had told mewhat I was supposed to do.
And I was the last witness, andwith the ahead of me was Human
(15:55):
Rights Watch, and then there wasReporters Without Borders, and
then Amnesty International.
And each one of these umorganizations got up, uh read
from a piece of paper, and thencited a bunch of um statistics
about the terrible things thatwere happening in Russia at the
time.
And I was thinking to myself, ohmy god, I didn't prepare a piece
(16:16):
of paper, I don't have anystatistics.
I I what you know, how foolishcould I have been to not like
uh, you know, ask people what Iwas supposed to do.
And all I had was a story.
And so I I stood up and I toldthe story of Sergei Magnitsky.
And I told the story of how uhwho he was and how he was this
(16:39):
idealist, man of principle, andhow he discovered a major crime,
and how instead of honoring himfor uh uh being a good patriot,
they punished him with the worsttype of punishment you could
ever give a person, which isslow torture and then murder.
And I didn't um read from apiece of paper.
(17:00):
I looked into the eyes of themembers of the committee, and at
the end of my testimony,Congressman McGovern, who um who
is the chairman of thecommittee, said, you know, we we
sit here and we hear so manypeople spout off statistics, but
this is a human story.
And um uh and I'm gonna dosomething about it.
(17:23):
It's very hard for anybody whoum hears a story like that to do
nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
It's very hard for anybody who hears a story like
that to do nothing.
I like to think that's exactlywhat's happening now inside the
halls of power in Washington.
Because the United States is nolonger just watching.
They're striking hard.
(17:52):
And on October 14, they dealttheir biggest blow yet.
This time, in partnership withthe UK government.
They sanctioned a 37-year-oldChinese-born Cambodian and
British national named Chunjet,along with his empire, Prince
(18:13):
Holding Group.
Together, they seized aroundwait for it,$15 billion in
Bitcoin.
Just to put that intoperspective, this was the
largest criminal asset seizurein human history.
A lot of Chun's assets werefrozen too, and the US Justice
(18:35):
Department filed chargesaccusing him of running forced
labor scam compounds acrossCambodia.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
It's truly historic.
So, one of the most powerfulpeople, one of the most senior
officials in the Cambodiangovernment, who is someone who
actually purchased Cambodiancitizenship, doesn't actually
come from Cambodia, but hasrisen to power in Cambodia on
the back of his ability togenerate money for the elites
(19:02):
because of his skill andruthlessness in executing this
form of crime, was not onlysanctioned by the US and the UK,
and then the US governmentactually took$15 billion in
cryptocurrency assets from himbecause of what he is doing in
(19:22):
this situation.
Like we've never, as uh as a asa as a people, uh had a
government who took this muchexploitative predatory profit
from a criminal actor.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
One look through Chun's frozen assets, even
beyond the crypto that wasseized, gives us a glimpse into
his empire.
12 million pound mansion onAvenue Road in North London, a
100 million pound officebuilding in the City of London,
17 flats on New Oxford Street,yachts and private jets, and
(20:02):
high-value artwork, including aPicasso painting.
It's sobering to hear aboutthese frozen assets and then
think back to people like Shai,who lost his life savings to
enrich people like Chin.
But now to see this onceuntouchable empire cut off at
the knees signals something of apower shift.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
And it's a sign that the voices of the most
vulnerable and people withproximity to seats of power are
starting to align.
And the really beautiful thingin there is that humans are now
standing up for each otheraround the world with little
else to connect them.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
For Jake, this past month has been an incredibly
rewarding time.
SPEAKER_04 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a bit of
personal.
I don't know, like I it it'spersonal.
This has become personal for me.
And and certainly there'ssomething personally gratifying
about seeing my work cited in ahistoric indictment.
Uh, there's something personallygratifying about the things that
(21:14):
I feel like have been yellinginto the void, finally getting
traction and having real policyimpact.
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
It's a good reminder.
Meaningful change doesn't comeeasily, doesn't come quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
But as Bill reminded us, you just keep on hammering
away and hammering away.
And what I've learned is thatthe people who don't want you to
do this generally aren't as asum insistent, you know, that
they're not the ones that youknow, they're working nine to
five and not working on theweekend.
And I'm sure you're you knowworking around the clock and
working every weekend.
And so, you know, you youprobably care more about get you
(21:48):
know doing the doing the rightthing, you know, creating
consequences, ending impunity,than the person who um for
whatever reason inside theapparatus doesn't want you to do
this.
And so, you know, you'll findyour you know your openings um
as long as you stick with it.
And um sticking with itsometimes means you know
(22:09):
sticking with it for a reallylong time.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
For Jake and Aaron and Jason Tower and the growing
number of others in this fight,this rings very true.
SPEAKER_04 (22:20):
Like, what needs to happen now is for us to keep the
pedal down.
Um, one set of aggressivesanctions isn't going to do it.
One designation on abureaucratic report isn't gonna
do it.
Like, if if what we take awayfrom this is like, ah, the scam
kingpin is has fallen, and nowwhere we can move on, we might
(22:43):
as well not have done anything.
Like, yes, this is important andwe've crippled a bad actor, but
there are an entire there is anentire demographic of people
like Chinza around SoutheastAsia and in Cambodia particular,
that have purchased and securedunbelievable influence and are
using that influence to protectcriminal industries exactly like
(23:07):
the ones that exploited Micahand Ava.
And if we don't pay attention tothose people, or if we somehow
declare mission accomplishedprematurely, we will have failed
those people, and we'll havefailed the people like the ones
that you met during this podcastwho are standing up on behalf of
(23:29):
those at extreme personal risk.
It's it's really time for theworld to come around and say,
first and foremost, sovereignstates will not be run on the
back of the scam economy.
And then beyond that, the worldalso needs to continue pushing
their governments, everyonearound the world needs to be
pushing their governments totake concerted actions to both
(23:52):
play offense and defense.
Because this is a form of crimethat is going to continue
exploiting trafficking victimsand exploiting unsuspecting scam
and financial crime victims fromaround the world until
governments take a concerted andcomprehensive approach to
resolving it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
However, people can talk about them, they should.
Because when things are madepublic, then the world can
(24:33):
respond to them.
We all are on social media andFacebook and Twitter and
Instagram.
And um I think that the the mostimportant thing that anyone
could do if they if they seeevil happening is is um expose
(24:55):
evil in whatever format theycan.
Um because that's how um thingschange, is if people know about
them and and um and are not tooscared to um to put the
information out there.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
He's right.
When evil thrives in silence,the simplest act of truth
telling can become an act ofdefiance.
And sometimes it's the sparkthat changes everything.
So, before we wrap up, a quickupdate from us here at Cadence
and Unheard.
As we mentioned in our lastepisode, we've been working on a
(25:32):
couple of new stories, still inthe world of force scamming, but
this time in a different region.
Originally we planned to releasethem as bonus episodes in this
series.
But the deeper we dug, the morewe realize that this isn't just
an update.
It's a whole new chapter, fullof new countries and incredible
new characters, each fightingtheir own version of this
(25:55):
battle.
And so that's what we're makingnow.
Season three of the fight of mylife.
We'll be back soon.
But for now, we're drawing aline under this season.
Grateful, inspired, and moredetermined than ever.
We'll leave you with words we'vefound deeply encouraging.
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
The world is starting to wake up and to act
accordingly, and ultimately,this is a too rare reminder that
truth, when spoken persistentlyenough, can still move power.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
The fight of my life is brought to you by Cadence
Productions in partnership withUnheard.
This series, Escaping Scam City,was written by Carvio
Visvanathan, Nikki FlorenceThompson, and me, your host Rich
Thompson.
The series producers are LydiaBowden, Jake Sims, Ben Field,
Carrie Ann Tilson, CarvioVisfanathan, and Rich Thompson.
(26:55):
Our theme song is See Me Fly byRosa.
Our incredible translator isCorinne Powell.
Thank you so much, Corinne.
Additional sound design byBrendan Ridley.
Unheard's advocacy and supportfor this project was led by
Lydia Bowden, Carrie Ann Tilson,and Laura Entwistle, with a
massive thanks to their generouscommunity of supporters and with
(27:17):
a special shout out to Wen,Dane, and Val.
And finally, we're thankful toyou for choosing to come on this
journey with us.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
One of the main questions I've been asked since
the release of Escaping ScamCity is this.
Is there anything that ourgovernments can do to stop these
guys?
These criminal kingpinsprofiting off the misery of so
many.
I get it.
There's a particular kind offrustration that comes from
(00:29):
watching gross injustice unfoldsomewhere you can't reach.
When you can see it happening.
The trafficking, the torture,the scams, but it's happening in
another country.
And it's even more maddeningwhen that injustice isn't just
hurting their people, it'sreaching back across borders,
(00:51):
stealing from yours too.
And then there's the final gutpunch, when the country itself,
the one where this is allhappening, isn't just turning a
blind eye.
It's cashing in.
In places with police forces,ministries, and courts that
should be shutting them down.
And yet, nothing.
(01:12):
Or worse, denials.
Sweeping, aggressive insult yourintelligence denials.
You remember how our seriesproducer Jake published his
paper in May?
The one called Policies andPatterns: State-abetted
Transnational Crime in Cambodiaas a global security threat.
(01:35):
Well, hot on its heels, theCambodian government came out
swinging.
In a three-page press release,the Ministry of Interior accused
the report of being, quote,exaggerated, unprofessional, and
unsubstantiated.
It claimed that Jake and histeam had, quote, fabricated
(01:55):
facts and slandered seniorgovernment officials, describing
his findings as, again, quote,based on hallucinations and
imagination.
In short, they said, you've gotit all wrong.
There's nothing to see here.
It's next level gaslighting.
(02:18):
So then, what are you meant todo?
What can the so-called victimcountries, the ones having their
money stolen, countries like theUS, actually do?
Well, the good news is there area few levers that can be pulled
to fight back.
If the appetite is there.
And the even better news is thatin the past month or so, they've
(02:42):
started to be pulled.
And what's happened is a verybig deal.
SPEAKER_04 (02:47):
Yes, it's enormously significant.
SPEAKER_01 (02:49):
Jake's gonna help us unpack some of the exciting
things that have happened.
But first, to understand whatsome of those levers are, and
actually how they came to be, weneed to step away from Cambodia
for a moment.
We actually need to look at whathappened in Russia back in
November of 2008.
That was the month a Russian taxlawyer named Sergei Magnitsky
(03:11):
was thrown into a Moscow prison,charged with tax evasion.
A year later, he was dead.
At the time, Russian authoritiessaid he died of heart failure,
natural causes.
In other words, nothing to seehere.
But the truth, as multipleinvestigations would later
(03:32):
prove, was far darker.
Sergei Megnitsky had beentortured for 358 days.
And on November the 16th, in2009, he was beaten badly by
eight riot guards with therubber batons.
He was denied medical care andhe died alone in his cell.
(03:55):
Seems pretty extreme for taxevasion, doesn't it?
Well, the real reason Sergei wasin that cell was because he
uncovered one of the largest taxfrauds in Russian history.
You see, Sergei had been workingfor an American investor who ran
Hermitage Capital Management,the biggest foreign investment
(04:16):
fund in Russia at the time.
In 2007, Russian officialsraided the offices of Hermitage.
And soon after, those sameofficials that did the raid used
C's documents from the raid toorchestrate a$230 million tax
scam, basically stealing publicmoney from the Russian treasury.
(04:36):
Sergei discovered the fraud andtraced it back to the senior
officials and then testifiedagainst them.
A few months later, those samemen had him arrested.
Sergei's client, the Americaninvestor, wasn't in the country
at the time of Sergei's death.
He'd already been banned fromentering Russia, declared a
(04:58):
quote, threat to nationalsecurity.
But it devastated him.
And it completely changed thecourse of his life.
That client's name is BillBrowder.
SPEAKER_02 (05:12):
Yeah, so my name is Bill Browder.
I'm the head of the GlobalMagnitsky Justice Campaign.
And for the last 15 years, I'vebeen working on holding Vladimir
Putin and his uh regimeaccountable for human rights
abuse.
It all stemmed from the murderof my lawyer Sergei Magnitsky.
(05:35):
He was 37 years old.
He left a wife and two children.
Since his murder, um, it'sbecome my full-time life mission
to go after the people whokilled him to make sure they
face justice.
And in doing so, the um the onetype of justice that we could
successfully get was a piece oflegislation called the Magnitsky
(05:58):
Act, named after SergeiMagnitsky, which imposes visa
bans and asset freezes on thepeople who killed him and the
people who commit other humanrights abuses, similar human
rights abuses.
SPEAKER_01 (06:10):
The Magnitsky Act was passed in 2012.
Up until this point, sanctionswere, generally speaking, a
blunt instrument.
Governments punished othercountries, not the people
running them.
If a regime was corrupt orviolent, the whole nation paid
the price.
Trade cut off, banks frozen,ordinary people suffering, while
(06:34):
the powerful, the ones actuallyresponsible, usually found a way
to keep getting richer.
The Magnitsky Act changed that.
It flipped the whole idea ofsanctions on its head.
Instead of punishing a country,it targeted the individuals, the
ones who actually profit fromcorruption and abuse, and it
(06:57):
targeted their entities.
It was like turning a shotguninto a sniper rifle, and it gave
the world a new way to go afterthose who'd always been
untouchable.
It lets governments freezeassets and ban visas for people
involved in serious corruptionor abuse, no matter where in the
(07:17):
world it happened.
It's one of the few tools thatcan actually make powerful
people feel consequences forwhat they've done.
SPEAKER_02 (07:26):
And the Magnitsky Act was first passed in the
United States in 2012, signed byPresident Obama.
It then went to Canada in 2017,the UK in 2018, the European
Union in 2020, Australia in2021, and various other
(07:47):
countries in between.
And there are now 35 countriesaround the world that have a
Magnitsky Act.
It doesn't just apply toRussians, it applies to
perpetrators of human rightsabuse everywhere.
And it's um uh if if there everwas a something that could go
viral um in the world of humanrights, the Magnitsky Act is it.
(08:08):
It provides a platform and a umlegal mechanism for victims of
human rights abuse to go afteruh the perpetrators, and the
perpetrators from most in mostcountries and most situations
have enjoyed absolute impunityup until the Magnitsky Act uh
became a uh form of legislation.
SPEAKER_01 (08:32):
For much of this year, there's been a sense of
disappointment, even anger,amongst those fighting forced
scamming.
The US, once seen as a drivingglobal force for good, had
started to retreat.
USAID was dismantled, keyfunding streams were dried up,
(08:52):
and America's role as a moralleader in the fight against this
evil seemed to be fading.
Which made what happened inSeptember just so surprising.
In the US, the Department ofTreasury has a branch called the
(09:13):
Office of Foreign AssetsControl, or OFAC.
It's OFAC that implements andenforces sanctions.
In the human rights world,whenever OFAC sanctions are
mentioned in a Treasury pressrelease, people sit up and pay
attention.
And on September the 8th of thisyear, well, that's exactly what
(09:35):
happened.
SPEAKER_00 (09:36):
Today, the Department of the Treasury's
Office of Foreign AssetsControl, OFAC, implemented
sanctions against a largenetwork of scam centers across
Southeast Asia that stealbillions of dollars from
Americans using forced labor andviolence.
The action includes 10 targetsbased in Cambodia.
SPEAKER_01 (09:58):
As you can imagine, people rush to see who and what
entities are on the list.
We and our production team heldour breath as we scrolled down
the names.
And to our great delight, there,halfway down the page, was KB
Hotel Co Limited, aka Kaibo.
(10:20):
Kaibo, of course, being thescamming compound Michael was
sold to after leaving DV.
It was designated by OFAC as acasino-turned criminal compound.
In addition, its co-founder wasalso sanctioned.
Unfortunately, there was nomention of DV Casino or Xinjiang
(10:41):
Hotel, and there are many, manyothers that are not on the list.
But by all accounts, this wasstill a very big step.
SPEAKER_04 (10:51):
And you know, one of the things that we've talked
about here and that I a lot ofmy work has focused on is that
the need for accountability tobe injected into these spaces
where there just doesn't exist.
And sanctions is the first andlowest hanging fruit way and
opportunity to do that.
And so the sanctions that camedown, including against the
(11:12):
compound where Micah was held,um, are really, really
important.
SPEAKER_01 (11:18):
And hang on, it gets even better.
On September 18, just 10 dayslater, a new bill in the US was
introduced.
The Dismantle Foreign ScamSyndicates Act.
It calls for a nationalstrategy, dedicated funding, and
critically sanctions on 43transnational criminals driving
(11:40):
Southeast Asia's online scamindustry.
Representative Shreve is thesponsor for the act.
SPEAKER_03 (11:55):
To investigate Chinese Communist Party
involvement, to support foreignlaw enforcement partners, to
deploy offensivecybercapabilities, and finally
to unite our allies againstthese transnational syndicates.
This is not just consumer fraud,it's organized crime, it's
counter to national security andhuman rights, all rolled into
(12:18):
one.
I urge support for this Mr.
Chairman.
SPEAKER_01 (12:22):
This was another huge win in the fight against
this industry.
It's the kind of unified,coordinated action people like
Aaron West have been calling forsince the beginning.
With the sanctions, and now theintroduction of this act,
momentum was building.
And then, the very next day,September the 19th, the US
(12:46):
government released its 2025Trafficking in Persons or TIP
report.
Now, a bit of context here.
This report comes out everyyear, usually by the end of
June, and it's become one of themost powerful tools for holding
governments accountable.
So, for this year, when June 30came and went without its
(13:08):
release, many in theanti-trafficking world started
to worry that it had beenshelved for good.
Then finally, it came out.
And when it did, there was abombshell in sight.
Cambodia was listed, because ofthese scamming compounds, as one
of the world's 13 state sponsorsof human trafficking.
(13:31):
The report publicly accused theCambodian government of
complicity, saying officialsweren't just ignoring the
crimes, but in many cases werecolluding with the perpetrators
and profiting from the scamindustry.
(14:00):
We weren't to know it at thetime, but this report was paving
the way for the next quiteastonishing move from the US.
But before we get to that, let'sjust pause for a moment here.
Because these are some prettymajor victories.
And none of them would existwithout the brave storytellers
who've risked so much to speakout.
(14:23):
People like Micah and Ava,who've been inside.
Like Mek Daro who spent yearsinvestigating the compounds.
And Shy, who's walked, and isstill walking, the long road to
financial recovery.
These are ordinary people doingsomething extraordinary.
(14:44):
Standing up to tell the truthabout what they've seen, what
they've lived through.
Truth telling is one of the mostformidable weapons in the fight
against injustice.
And it's something that BillBrowder knows all too well.
Because when he first set out tofight for justice, he didn't
have political power or legaltraining or a network of
(15:06):
activists behind him.
All he had was a story.
SPEAKER_02 (15:12):
I came to the world of human rights in a totally
different way than almosteverybody else comes to the
world of human rights.
I I can remember when I um wasinvited to testify at the human
rights subcommittee at the Houseof Representatives.
And I showed up there and I hadno experience with any of this
stuff.
I came to the world of humanrights as a hedge fund manager
(15:34):
whose lawyer was murdered.
I had no training in law, I hadno training in politics, I had
no training in human rights, andI was invited to this testimony,
and um uh and there were sixfive other people, six of us in
total, and nobody had told mewhat I was supposed to do.
And I was the last witness, andwith the ahead of me was Human
(15:55):
Rights Watch, and then there wasReporters Without Borders, and
then Amnesty International.
And each one of these umorganizations got up, uh read
from a piece of paper, and thencited a bunch of um statistics
about the terrible things thatwere happening in Russia at the
time.
And I was thinking to myself, ohmy god, I didn't prepare a piece
(16:16):
of paper, I don't have anystatistics.
I I what you know, how foolishcould I have been to not like
uh, you know, ask people what Iwas supposed to do.
And all I had was a story.
And so I I stood up and I toldthe story of Sergei Magnitsky.
And I told the story of how uhwho he was and how he was this
(16:39):
idealist, man of principle, andhow he discovered a major crime,
and how instead of honoring himfor uh uh being a good patriot,
they punished him with the worsttype of punishment you could
ever give a person, which isslow torture and then murder.
And I didn't um read from apiece of paper.
(17:00):
I looked into the eyes of themembers of the committee, and at
the end of my testimony,Congressman McGovern, who um who
is the chairman of thecommittee, said, you know, we we
sit here and we hear so manypeople spout off statistics, but
this is a human story.
And um uh and I'm gonna dosomething about it.
(17:23):
It's very hard for anybody whoum hears a story like that to do
nothing.
SPEAKER_01 (17:30):
It's very hard for anybody who hears a story like
that to do nothing.
I like to think that's exactlywhat's happening now inside the
halls of power in Washington.
Because the United States is nolonger just watching.
They're striking hard.
(17:52):
And on October 14, they dealttheir biggest blow yet.
This time, in partnership withthe UK government.
They sanctioned a 37-year-oldChinese-born Cambodian and
British national named Chunjet,along with his empire, Prince
(18:13):
Holding Group.
Together, they seized aroundwait for it,$15 billion in
Bitcoin.
Just to put that intoperspective, this was the
largest criminal asset seizurein human history.
A lot of Chun's assets werefrozen too, and the US Justice
(18:35):
Department filed chargesaccusing him of running forced
labor scam compounds acrossCambodia.
SPEAKER_04 (18:42):
It's truly historic.
So, one of the most powerfulpeople, one of the most senior
officials in the Cambodiangovernment, who is someone who
actually purchased Cambodiancitizenship, doesn't actually
come from Cambodia, but hasrisen to power in Cambodia on
the back of his ability togenerate money for the elites
(19:02):
because of his skill andruthlessness in executing this
form of crime, was not onlysanctioned by the US and the UK,
and then the US governmentactually took$15 billion in
cryptocurrency assets from himbecause of what he is doing in
(19:22):
this situation.
Like we've never, as uh as a asa as a people, uh had a
government who took this muchexploitative predatory profit
from a criminal actor.
SPEAKER_01 (19:39):
One look through Chun's frozen assets, even
beyond the crypto that wasseized, gives us a glimpse into
his empire.
12 million pound mansion onAvenue Road in North London, a
100 million pound officebuilding in the City of London,
17 flats on New Oxford Street,yachts and private jets, and
(20:02):
high-value artwork, including aPicasso painting.
It's sobering to hear aboutthese frozen assets and then
think back to people like Shai,who lost his life savings to
enrich people like Chin.
But now to see this onceuntouchable empire cut off at
the knees signals something of apower shift.
SPEAKER_04 (20:27):
And it's a sign that the voices of the most
vulnerable and people withproximity to seats of power are
starting to align.
And the really beautiful thingin there is that humans are now
standing up for each otheraround the world with little
else to connect them.
SPEAKER_01 (20:47):
For Jake, this past month has been an incredibly
rewarding time.
SPEAKER_04 (20:52):
Yeah, I mean, there's a there's a bit of
personal.
I don't know, like I it it'spersonal.
This has become personal for me.
And and certainly there'ssomething personally gratifying
about seeing my work cited in ahistoric indictment.
Uh, there's something personallygratifying about the things that
(21:14):
I feel like have been yellinginto the void, finally getting
traction and having real policyimpact.
SPEAKER_01 (21:19):
It's a good reminder.
Meaningful change doesn't comeeasily, doesn't come quickly.
SPEAKER_02 (21:25):
But as Bill reminded us, you just keep on hammering
away and hammering away.
And what I've learned is thatthe people who don't want you to
do this generally aren't as asum insistent, you know, that
they're not the ones that youknow, they're working nine to
five and not working on theweekend.
And I'm sure you're you knowworking around the clock and
working every weekend.
And so, you know, you youprobably care more about get you
(21:48):
know doing the doing the rightthing, you know, creating
consequences, ending impunity,than the person who um for
whatever reason inside theapparatus doesn't want you to do
this.
And so, you know, you'll findyour you know your openings um
as long as you stick with it.
And um sticking with itsometimes means you know
(22:09):
sticking with it for a reallylong time.
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
For Jake and Aaron and Jason Tower and the growing
number of others in this fight,this rings very true.
SPEAKER_04 (22:20):
Like, what needs to happen now is for us to keep the
pedal down.
Um, one set of aggressivesanctions isn't going to do it.
One designation on abureaucratic report isn't gonna
do it.
Like, if if what we take awayfrom this is like, ah, the scam
kingpin is has fallen, and nowwhere we can move on, we might
(22:43):
as well not have done anything.
Like, yes, this is important andwe've crippled a bad actor, but
there are an entire there is anentire demographic of people
like Chinza around SoutheastAsia and in Cambodia particular,
that have purchased and securedunbelievable influence and are
using that influence to protectcriminal industries exactly like
(23:07):
the ones that exploited Micahand Ava.
And if we don't pay attention tothose people, or if we somehow
declare mission accomplishedprematurely, we will have failed
those people, and we'll havefailed the people like the ones
that you met during this podcastwho are standing up on behalf of
(23:29):
those at extreme personal risk.
It's it's really time for theworld to come around and say,
first and foremost, sovereignstates will not be run on the
back of the scam economy.
And then beyond that, the worldalso needs to continue pushing
their governments, everyonearound the world needs to be
pushing their governments totake concerted actions to both
(23:52):
play offense and defense.
Because this is a form of crimethat is going to continue
exploiting trafficking victimsand exploiting unsuspecting scam
and financial crime victims fromaround the world until
governments take a concerted andcomprehensive approach to
resolving it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:12):
However, people can talk about them, they should.
Because when things are madepublic, then the world can
(24:33):
respond to them.
We all are on social media andFacebook and Twitter and
Instagram.
And um I think that the the mostimportant thing that anyone
could do if they if they seeevil happening is is um expose
(24:55):
evil in whatever format theycan.
Um because that's how um thingschange, is if people know about
them and and um and are not tooscared to um to put the
information out there.
SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
He's right.
When evil thrives in silence,the simplest act of truth
telling can become an act ofdefiance.
And sometimes it's the sparkthat changes everything.
So, before we wrap up, a quickupdate from us here at Cadence
and Unheard.
As we mentioned in our lastepisode, we've been working on a
(25:32):
couple of new stories, still inthe world of force scamming, but
this time in a different region.
Originally we planned to releasethem as bonus episodes in this
series.
But the deeper we dug, the morewe realize that this isn't just
an update.
It's a whole new chapter, fullof new countries and incredible
new characters, each fightingtheir own version of this
(25:55):
battle.
And so that's what we're makingnow.
Season three of the fight of mylife.
We'll be back soon.
But for now, we're drawing aline under this season.
Grateful, inspired, and moredetermined than ever.
We'll leave you with words we'vefound deeply encouraging.
SPEAKER_04 (26:15):
The world is starting to wake up and to act
accordingly, and ultimately,this is a too rare reminder that
truth, when spoken persistentlyenough, can still move power.
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
The fight of my life is brought to you by Cadence
Productions in partnership withUnheard.
This series, Escaping Scam City,was written by Carvio
Visvanathan, Nikki FlorenceThompson, and me, your host Rich
Thompson.
The series producers are LydiaBowden, Jake Sims, Ben Field,
Carrie Ann Tilson, CarvioVisfanathan, and Rich Thompson.
(26:55):
Our theme song is See Me Fly byRosa.
Our incredible translator isCorinne Powell.
Thank you so much, Corinne.
Additional sound design byBrendan Ridley.
Unheard's advocacy and supportfor this project was led by
Lydia Bowden, Carrie Ann Tilson,and Laura Entwistle, with a
massive thanks to their generouscommunity of supporters and with
(27:17):
a special shout out to Wen,Dane, and Val.
And finally, we're thankful toyou for choosing to come on this
journey with us.
We'll see you on the nextepisode.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!