March 7, 2026 • 47 mins
Ever hear a lyric that flips on the light in a dark room? Jack Horner of the UK psychedelic duo The Dirt joins us to unpack Monkey Punch, a live-wire album tracked in just two days that insists albums should feel like stories, not shuffled singles. We dive into the line that’s still ringing in our heads—“Protons neutrons controlled by morons”—and use it as a compass for a bigger conversation about unity over division, resisting performative outrage, and building spaces where disagreement can breathe without turning toxic.
Jack pulls back the curtain on process: recording live without a drummer, trusting first takes, and partnering with producer Jason Shaw to preserve grit, air, and momentum. We talk about why some songs need six and a half minutes, why vinyl’s 42-minute canvas still shapes better narratives, and how algorithmic skimming flattens meaning. If you’ve ever missed the feeling of flipping a record, this one’s for you.
Culture threads through every riff. We map the parallels between long-form music and slow cinema—think Blade Runner and the rare sequel that dared to stretch time—arguing that patience isn’t a luxury, it’s a creative weapon. From social media’s shrinking attention spans to the resilience of underground scenes in the UK, US, and Japan, we make the case for art that outlasts the scroll. Monkey Punch is protest you can hum, a reminder that chaos can clarify when it’s channeled with care.
Hit play to hear how a minimalist setup carries maximal intent, why the underground still matters, and how storytelling structure can turn an album into a world. If this conversation moves you, follow the show, share it with a friend who loves long songs, and leave a quick review—your words help keep the signal strong.
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SPEAKER_00 (00:02):
What's up all my fishes in the sea?
Thanks for tuning into the FishBowl.
I'm your host Sam Fish andtoday's guest is Jack Horner
from the critically acclaimed UKpsychedelic rock band The Dirt.
We talked about music, film, andhis newly released album Monkey
Punch with the hit single Chaos.
Tune in and check it out.
(04:54):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Welcome, thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.
Cheers, Sam.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Absolutely, cheers.
Thank you for taking the time toswim in the bowl with me.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Yeah, that's it, yeah.
That's great.
Little fish in a big ocean, eh?
Yep, yep, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
Uh just swimming on swimming on by, swimming
upstream, you know.
That's it, gotta do our littlebit.
Exactly, exactly.
You know, like I I like to thinkof myself as a mixture between a
uh shark and a salmon.
You know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Oh really?
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
Because the the shark, you know, you gotta be a
shark, you know, to swim withthe top dogs, but you also gotta
be a salmon to swim against thestream.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
I like that.
Good.
I I I think I'd be a squid or anoctopus.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I I seem to have fingersin a lot of pies.
Multitask, a lot of smallprojects.
None that are massive, they'reall they're all small, so I
(05:59):
yeah, I I get my tentacles outand um I'm a writer, so ink's
perfect.
So yeah, I don't know.
That's a weird that's a weirdway to start, isn't it?
What what marine animal wouldyou be?
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Subconsciously.
I think I might actually startthat as like a new segment with
each other.
Yeah, start.
Which fish would you be?
You know, yeah, what would yoube?
Which sea animal, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Yeah.
In the landscape of theaquarium, where do you find
yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Exactly, exactly, you know.
Great analogy for life.
SPEAKER_02 (06:29):
Yeah, isn't it?
Yeah, just just take us allunder the water and say, where
would you survive in thistotally new landscape?
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Right, right.
And and uh the greatest thingabout uh the ocean is you know,
there's plenty of fish in thesea.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
There is plenty of fish in the sea, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
There's room for everyone.
Yeah, there is exactly exceptwith this uh crazy world we live
in, which by the way, I've I'velistened to uh Monkey Punch a
couple times now.
What a phenomenal album from youguys.
It might be probably my myfavorite one to uh to date.
(07:05):
I I follow you guys on Band Campand everything, you know, on
following on Facebook, and whata monkey punch, uh power punch
of uh of lyrics with so much,you know, uh subject of society,
where we're at, what is going onin the world, but also without
(07:29):
like doing it in such a waywhere like here on the States,
it's like if you voted forTrump, you know, you're you're a
uh a racist and uh a white bigotand and you know a Nazi and all
that.
And if you voted for Harris orBiden, you know, it's it's like
(07:51):
civil war essentially, you know,and you know, I don't voice my
political opinions on air atleast.
You know, I I definitely voicethem.
Just not not on air, but I findit like very, you know, it's
like England, the UK, the EU,Australia, it's all, you know,
(08:14):
the the it's all like Western,you know, influenced countries
and everything, and we all seemto be kind of going through a
lot of the same issues, boththrough education, politically,
stuff like that.
And I just have to say that theyou know, like in the 90s you
(08:39):
had Rage Against the Machine,you know, all not even just the
90s, like going back to youknow, British invasion, Lenin,
Hendricks, you know, all theBeatles, you know, all the all
the major British invasion, youknow, bands and and you know,
American bands of the theoriginal, like, you know, major
(09:01):
first wave of like rock and rollback in the 60s and 70s.
I mean, and and the 90s, I kindof compare as like really the
last like major musical movementwhere it was not just a musical
movement, it was an artisticmovement.
It was like you had bandstalking about political stuff,
(09:24):
you had bands talking about thearts and and just you know life
and and you know theirexperiences, and you don't like
have that anymore, at least inthe mainstream.
It's like all all the music thatI I listen to is you know, like
your stuff, stuff from Fuzz ClubRecords, Little Cloud Records,
(09:46):
you know, heavy spike sounds,rise above, you know, all the
stuff that is like really thelast, like really underground,
like thriving movements of ofrock and roll.
And you know, I was listening toyour your album again yesterday
to like refresh myself with it.
(10:06):
And you know, you said you're awriter.
I I'm a writer as well.
I went to school forscreenwriting here in
Pittsburgh, and you know, I knowall about like listening and
just deciphering lyrics and andall that.
And the next to the last song onthe album, I wrote it down here,
oak.
There's a couple lyrics you sayin there, and one of them stood
(10:29):
out to me like really more thanany any of the other ones on the
entire album.
And I wrote it down here, andit's Protons Neutrons Controlled
by Morons.
You know, and I I when I heardthat, I'm like, that that not
only stood out to me, it's likeyes, yes, absolutely, 100%, not
(10:56):
just in the US, but you know, ifyou look around the world, you
know, it's everywhere.
You know, it's like the state ofof like, you know, whatever,
wherever we're at in societyright now, you know, it's I I
look I took those those lyricsspecifically, you know, out of
all the other ones and all theother songs on the album.
(11:18):
That one really stood out to meand I was like, holy shit.
Like, like, what a great way notjust to like mock it, but also
like summarize it in a very likephilosophical way to kind of say
like whether you're an American,you know, uh a bred, you know,
(11:41):
Scott, Irish, you know, EU,whatever, Australian, wherever
you're from, it's like it's allthe same.
You know, and I I just was likethat that lyric, like, and and
that song in particular reallystood out to me.
And I was like, that that islike the music that we need.
(12:02):
That is like the artisticmovement that like the the world
needs right now.
It's like we need more musiciansand free thinkers.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
It's like the big thing, you know.
Free thinkers is like, you know,like the biggest thing I hear
about like the Gen Zs is they'renot critical thinkers.
You know, they they they don'tknow how to like, you know,
think for themselves.
And I don't know how true thatis for like the entire, you
know, lot of them, but I cantell from experience in my own
(12:40):
crossings that it's it'sdefinitely uh true to a certain
extent.
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
I I think like then lyrics, and I think it's all
about the world is set up fordivision now, isn't it?
It's it's like left or right,blue or red or exactly or gay or
black or white, and the world isset up that currently in the
current climate, and this iswithout I don't know too much,
but with Fox News or with whatwe've got over in the UK and
(13:08):
anywhere, it's all aboutdivision.
You have to choose a side whichis wrong.
And and and my words areliterally like that lyric that
you just quoted.
It's like we are all atoms, weare all the skin colour is
literally how you deal with thesun, that's what it's about
through evolution.
We are all the same, there aredifferent cultures, there are
people with differentbackgrounds, different with
different thought processes, butwe we're all equal, and and we
(13:31):
should be fighting the system oftotalitarianism and
dictatorships, not fightingbetween ourselves.
And that is kind of where how Iprompt it.
It's it's not about I sit onthis side as a socialist and I'm
telling you you're all wrong onthe other side, you're not
wrong.
You've been brought up, you'vegot your total fine way of jud
judging what you do through yourfamily, your job, your house,
(13:53):
whatever you want to do.
What I'm saying is we should beworking together, and we should
be telling we should be tellingthese people in charge, you do
not have a free reign to abuseus.
And and and that is kind ofwhere I want to go with monkey
punch that if we keep fightingwith each other, the apes will
take over, or someone else willcome out of the water with the
next generation, and when a newspecies will rule this earth,
because we are messing it up,and and that is in a succinct
(14:17):
message what I'm talking about.
And and I think what youmentioned there about the Gen Z
and about generations, we dothink different, we've brought
up differently with socialmedia.
There's a fear of offendingthese days, whether it be
through comedy or throughstraight talking, that people of
a generation that probably wewere from, if we didn't like
(14:38):
someone or a thought in public,in a bar, at a match, at
football, or anywhere in public,we would be happy to say, mate,
that's wrong.
Unfortunately, these days it allgets put onto a platform online
and people are brought up.
People are brought updifferently, and it's easier to
be abusive and threaten and andthan it it than it was.
And I think by that we monitorit that we cannot be outspoken.
(15:01):
There is nothing wrong withbeing opinionated and outspoken.
It is literally how your mum anddad taught you to be polite and
nice and deliver it in a verynice, succinct way, rather than
and and and it's kind of gotlost.
I think it's got diluted and andlost as the the ability to
communicate.
And it's not a generation'sfault, it's the way society has
changed and the way computershave the way the computers took
(15:22):
over, and we've become relianton getting our information off a
screen rather than walking to ashop and buying a newspaper or
or l or talking to your friendsand networking like we used to
do at festivals in theunderground.
But it's nice that all thosethings you mentioned of all
those labels and record people,that they they are still
thriving.
And and there is a I I I I I Ilook online and and I see what's
(15:45):
going on in the States and inand in other parts of that side
of the world.
And and and with my wife beingJapanese, there is a thriving
underground and there is athriving subculture, and and we
need that because if that getsmuted, uh the system's beat us,
and uh we we have to keepsharing it.
I was only saying that to myneighbour today that we need to
(16:05):
shout, and as people with anelement of uh vocal point, we we
we have a privilege to tell theworld through writing, through
story, through music, what wethink is wrong, and it's whether
for people to agree or disagreewith us, and you shouldn't be
offended if someone disagreeswith you.
It's it's literally a point ofview.
Opinions are like backsides,everyone's got one.
We've just got some of us havegot bigger ones than others.
(16:27):
That's kind of what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
And I've got a lot of I've got a lot of opinions.
I just choose to not sit on thefence but say, Here's my
thought, I'm gonna put it into alyric, I'm gonna put it into a
song.
SPEAKER_00 (16:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
Tell me what you think.
I'm just gonna provoke yourthoughts and and you can decide
whether I'm right or wrong.
Whether you whether you agree ordisagree, there's a there's a
message in there from which I'mexperiencing through any other
one of my senses, and I'm justsaying it how it is from my
eyes, which I believe is quiteunbigoted, fair, balanced.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
I I I completely agree.
I mean, and and going back toMonkey Punch, first of all, the
the album just gets better andbetter as it goes along.
After listening to it, like it'sit's a phenomenal album, but
it's one of those albums thatlike starts out really good, and
then as you listen to like thejourney of you know, the the
(17:23):
progression of the songs and thechords and the lyrics and you
know, going from the intro trackto the very end with chaos, it's
it's definitely a journey, butit in in my opinion it kind of
just gets better and better asyou go along, you know, and and
(17:44):
then when you reach the end, itit's like you know, you you've
you it it's literally like likelike being a writer and telling
a story, and what I've learnedin going to screenwriting
school, it's like there's thatthree-act structure, at least in
you know what the the modern thewhat the Greeks came up with and
(18:07):
what became like you know thethree-act structure was
storytelling.
And it it the album for sure hasthat like beginning act, the
mid-act, and and the final act.
And really like toward towardsthe end with like the the climax
(18:29):
and when you get to the finaltrack, chaos, it's like at the
end, it just is like wow, likethis was not just like a great
rock album and you know, psych,you know, psych rock album.
You know, it was it wasliterally like, you know, I
listened to a lot of stuff thatJason Shaw, you know, produces
(18:50):
and all the bands that you know,I mean he in my opinion, he's
he's one of like the last greatnot just musicians, but like
producers and you know findingbands and helping bands out that
like in in my opinion is one ofthe the most reliable labels, as
(19:15):
well as like putting out likejust phenomenal bands in the in
the in in like the psych rockgenre.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
They do, yeah.
He's unbelievable to work withhis Jason, he's very
knowledgeable.
And and when we did this secondalbum, the first one we've done
in Manchester with It'sTatchiko's built uh pedal
boards, and I've changed mylyrics and we've built
percussion.
And when we decided, we we wesaid Jason was the one of the
only people we wanted to workwith because he's guitar, he's a
pedal head, he's worked withbands that have then gone onto
(19:50):
Fuzz Club, he's but he he workswith friends of ours, Helicon.
And literally we went, Jason'sthe one, he he's gonna get our
music and he's gonna help usproduce something which is gonna
be uh wholesome and is gonna getthe best out of what Satchiko
produces through through herpedals.
And and it it we we were rightin the end, and and it was
(20:11):
great, he's become a goodfriend, and and it his
techniques were really good.
And he was shocked at first whenI said we could do an album in
two days, and he was like,Really?
Oh, I was like, Okay, so we wentup and and we did it in two
days.
Um wow because because we werecord it all live and we don't
have a drummer, and and there'sonly two of us, so we would do
two or three takes, decide thebest on last scratch vocals, and
(20:34):
then I'll just go raw down a micand put the the the the the the
vocals on in the in the lastafternoon.
And he was like, Wow, I've neverdone an album in two days, and
then we went out for dinner, andthen we it was like wow, there
we go.
But let's hear what it soundslike when it's mixed, and we
were just amazed at what he cameup with.
It was just wow, but it it stilltransposes to live because we
are a live band and there isonly two of us, there is nowhere
(20:56):
to hide.
We are literally guitars,percussion, vocals.
And when I say percussion, it'svery much my wonky sample pad
electric drums.
So there is nowhere to hide.
So doing it like recording livetakes was it's our way, and and
we like to do that.
I think it it keeps that energylike you were talking about, the
drive, the continuous increaseand the momentum, and offers
(21:18):
resilience.
So you've got to give iteverything, and and it comes out
on the vinyl and it comes out onthe recording then.
So yeah, it was the it's it'sthe only way that we really know
how or able to to lay tracksdown for recording.
It's um it's a nice way of doingit.
It's organic, it's it keeps theenergy in there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Some bands sound better studio and when you see
them live, it's like, yeah, I Ilike the studio stuff better.
And then there's musicians thatyou simply cannot contain.
What like the I mean, I don'tknow what the right word, like
the essence, the the drive, youknow, the the spirit of uh of of
(22:00):
what the ban is, you know, likelike going back to Hendrix, you
know, you couldn't contain whatwhat he had in his studio.
No, no.
And it's kind of ironic that,you know, he he passed as early
as he did.
And therefore, like, he only didwhat, like three actual like
(22:22):
studio recorded albums.
I know they released liketechnically his fourth, but you
know, he's not even like singingon a lot of the tracks because
it was like a rights issue andfor for decades.
And they finally like was like,you know, we'll we'll release
it.
And forget what the album iscalled, but it it has like a lot
(22:44):
of songs that he ended upplaying live, like Hear My
Trainer Coming, and some a fewother songs that were on there
that were all ended up beingplayed live.
And you know, as much as I waslike, you know, I you know
Hendrix is like my favoriteguitarist of all time, one of my
(23:04):
top probably five favoritemusicians from that era.
And you know as as much as I wasexcited to to listen to the
album and I I did as soon as itcame out and listened to its
entirety the whole way through Iwas like you know this is this
is I I I guess I like that theyyou know put it together to
(23:28):
release it.
But like I think I would havepreferred if if you know I was
alive back when you know he wasthriving to to hear this and
then maybe they could have youknow added vocals in or
something because a lot of thetracks it's just like
instrumentals because it's likethey never he wasn't alive he'd
(23:50):
passed before they could laydown the the vocals for all the
tracks.
But at the same time likehearing as much as I've heard
hearing my trainer coming liveyou know and then I compare it
to to hearing it on you know thethe final you know technically
studio you know album I'm likethis just doesn't compare.
(24:14):
I mean especially because I meanfirst of all hear my trainer
coming is probably the the baneof gypsies live at the film
version of that that song it'slike nine and a half minutes
something like that maybe clclose to 10 and that specific
version because obviously he'syou know performed countless you
(24:37):
know live studio albums withdifferent versions of like Red
House and you know Hear MyTrainer Coming and all these
classic songs you know from hishis first three studio albums
you know it just is like to meit was like it doesn't get any
better than than hearing Hear MyTrainer Coming you know live at
(24:58):
the film and especially if iflike I want to trip out you know
and smoke some reefer and likereally listen like dive into
some some old you know classicyou know hits and jams you know
and stuff but I mean the thestudio it just doesn't compare.
And with you guys you know I Iwish I hope you know at some
(25:22):
point you can come to the statesand and I can I can see the or I
I come over to the UK or evenJapan or something you know and
I get to see you guys like thethe whole like live you know
drive and essence the spirit youknow of the Dart you know
performing live but it's like II can I can tell you know with
(25:46):
with with Monkey Punch that it'slike there is a lot of of like
energy yeah you know with withyou guys that I can hear it in
the studio and also by the wayone one thing I love love about
listening to old music anddiscovering new music is when I
(26:09):
I see a band that has liketracks that are you know really
six minutes or longer.
Yeah if if you know I'm likeI've had this conversation with
a lot of other musicians and youbrought up Helicon my hat John
Paul Hughes on the show while ohnice good lot that was a great
(26:29):
chat and I even talked aboutthis with him it's like you know
like I I'm uh I'm like a dyingbreed you know with with like on
the topic of like bringing GenZers up again it's like I was
born in 88 so and I just had abirthday so you know I'm like uh
actually chaos was released onmy birthday yeah so that that
(26:54):
was a good a really goodbirthday present to to jam out
to and you know it just is likethe the Gen Zers and and this
goes for film too with thembecause of everything we just
you know talked about brieflywith like social media and
TikTok and you know Facebook andInstagram with like you know
(27:16):
reels and you know only kind ofhaving the attention span of
like a a ferret or something.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
You know yeah that's what it is it's the tension
spans isn't it it's like a goodI I love a good two three hour
film but now everything isNetflix which means it's 30
minute series so your theattention span is smaller.
Spotify and and and and I Imeant to mention this and when
we were talking and you you weretalking about monkey punch as an
album bands older or people wecurate an album to tell a story
(27:49):
which will last 42 minutes andsqueeze as much onto a 42 minute
vinyl as we can the currentclimate is one Spotify track and
people are moving on.
They'll listen to it and they'llmove on.
Swite right squite right it'slike dating swipe right swipe
right whatever people do ontheir dating sites.
Right I've seen that swipe rightmy attention span's gone Netflix
do the same that they will showfilm in five parts effectively
(28:11):
or whatever they're doing.
So Spotify as well takes awaythe curatorism of a of an album
which we still as two fifty wellI'm 54 the wife's 53 we still
used we've grown up in a vinylage where we'll hear the crackle
and we'll play an album flip itover and we'll listen to it and
we'll judge the album on thealbum not just the first two
(28:33):
minutes of a three minute trackand and and like you said with a
six minute track it radio issaying we don't play your tracks
if it's over three and a halffour minutes I need a radio I'm
like I'm like that song's sixand a half minutes and I can't
take any of my words or any ofSatchiko's guitars out of there.
It's six and a half minutes andit's staying at six and a half
minutes whether you like it ornot because there's there's a
(28:54):
story to be told like you saythe beginning the midsection and
the L so what do you want me todo check out an introduction
check out a conclusion check outa middle section it it don't
work the song is theneffectively chopped up and
minced and it means nothingexactly exactly and and and
that's exactly the point I wasgetting to it's like people like
me you know because I I'm like II think technically the cutoff
(29:18):
for people like me is is 1990.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
It's like what once you get to like 91 and and and
on like I've noticed that thatthat's the generation where like
it really has shifted not justlike with with entertainment and
music and film but with thewhole politically you know and
(29:43):
the ideas that are going on andcirculating around you know all
over the world essentially rightnow and that has almost caused
us to be as divided as we are.
And like I my my sister was bornin 91 and and I notice a clear
(30:04):
definitive clear difference inhow you know I think and what I
like and not just her but youknow her you know I grew up with
her friends and you know andthen seeing like you know people
younger than her and I went toschool you know college you know
(30:25):
late so I was like you know agood few years older than a lot
of the the kids that I I I wentto school with.
And you know a lot of themlooked up to me and I feel like
I I went to college at like justthe right time because you know
some of the stuff that wasforming with like I mean I could
(30:48):
definitely tell there was likegoing to be a division of like
what we were talking about withthe right versus the left and
and all that.
And I also could tell that therewas a lot of anti-semitism like
under the it was it was comingto like a peak.
(31:09):
It was gonna it was gonnaexplode into what is going on on
the campuses around the worldyou know right now and
everything going on that waskind of inevitable to happen in
the Middle East.
But it's it's like I I Idefinitely noticed that like it
(31:30):
was definitely I want to say the91 on it that that was the major
shift because people you knowthe I have friends that are like
you know born you know in thethe mid late 90s and that that
aren't like that but you knowfor instance like the attention
(31:50):
span thing like for me I'm surefor you as well Blade Runner is
probably one of one of yourfavorite films.
It's one of my top top fivefavorite films sci-fi films of
all time.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
I've had conversations with you know you
know I'm I'm just turned 37 I'vehad conversations with younger
you know kids that are youngadults that are like I guess
just turning 30 or you know likelate 20s and you know they they
(32:24):
asked me in fact you know I I Idated a girl who was like in her
in her mid-20s and she you knowthe first night we're hanging
out and she was like really inthe movies and stuff and she was
like what's you you don't likeBlade Runner do you I was like
yeah I like Blade Runner it'slike one of my top five favorite
uh films sci-fi films of alltime you know and she's she went
(32:48):
she literally went like ohyou're one of those yeah and one
of those and then I said well II I'm thinking to myself okay
well you know that that kind ofends you know that's the end of
that and then uh that god wefound this one out on the first
day and not a year later rightyou know yeah you know but but
(33:11):
like uh and then I started likeasking you know other people
just you know at various jobsI've worked and you know just
just at conventions and stuffand it's like you know they all
that whole it's it's actuallymore I want to say like the the
(33:32):
mid to late nineties to the2000s kids that are now like in
their you know turning 21 andyou know Jesus like technically
25 you know if we would go therebut it's kind of crazy to think
but I think this has this hasgot a lot to do with the
millennia shift hasn't it uhwhere we always thought the
world was going to end it didn'tend it just that line the world
(33:54):
changed I think and and peoplethat were like you said born in
who turned into their doublefigure preteens pre-pubescent
that were just in the in theshift of the millennia they were
brought up once they got intopost pubescent age the internet
just dropped on their lap whilstthey were developing as adults
and and it's like this hugething just suddenly landed on
(34:17):
their lap and their world justexploded open whereas I
tentatively went around theinternet going oh this this is a
this is a foreign thing to methis is alien I don't trust it
it took me years to do internetbanking it took me years to have
a card it took me years to go tosocial media properly I I'm like
treading very slowly and I thinkwith with trepidation and I
(34:38):
think we did that but with themit landed on their lap and they
ran with it and that's whereattention spans with the
internet that you could justclick move click move the life
changed seriously did with andthen we had obviously streaming
then we we had Netflix we talkedabout programs films different
(34:58):
and that world totally changedand I think that where we looked
into a post sci-fi dystopianworld as something that was
intriguing we we're kind of nowliving among some of that and
that's what that's what monkeypunch is it's a dystopian
post-apocalyptic story that ifwe're not careful that we're
(35:19):
gonna live the monkey punch andand I just want to tell it so
yeah right and and and you knowBlade Runner again it's like
look look at how much thatanother reason why it's one of
my favorite films is look at howaccurate you know I I mean I
mean it it said 2019 which youknow was a little early but look
(35:41):
look where we're at and how muchof like Blade Runner is is has
come true.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
Yeah the year might have been off a little bit but
uh it's quite accurate for thetime when the film was written
yeah exactly exactly and and Imean one of the only like actual
sequels not a not a reboot anactual sequel that I was like
(36:08):
totally okay with was the BladeRunner sequel they did uh was it
20 2049 I I per I saw that inIMAX theaters you know it was
technically pre-COVID and uh youknow I was like first of all
when I saw the timeline it waslike almost three hours long I
was like yes yeah you know thisis this is a fight back against
(36:33):
the system and the current normisn't it three hour film exactly
you know and and and how ironicthat that the film the first
Blade Runner when it came outtotally underperformed totally
was misunderstood totally likeuh receptive like in a in a not
(36:55):
the best way but it was like itbecame an instant call classic
yeah and that's when cultclassics and subcultures are
formed aren't they whensomething goes against the norm
and they don't get familiarityin popular culture.
Exactly and and the sequel didthe exact same thing you know
people in this generation didn'tunderstand it they you know a
(37:16):
lot of people I mean I rememberwhen Fury Road came out the the
first you know reboot of Mad Maxand I I remember being in the
audience and this this thisyoung couple was like in the the
row above me and the girl thethe guy's girlfriend or whatever
(37:37):
was like you know had never seenany of the the Mel Gibson
trilogy before and she was justthere with him he had obviously
seen it but but she was onlythere because of Tom Hardy you
know which is a uh one of myfavorite actors and in a in uh
Brit and everything so yeah thatthat that guy on on the subject
(38:02):
of movies real quick and and inin uh England and all that the
movie he did where he was heplayed the the the cray twins
yeah played both parts didn't heyeah yeah you know he should
have won an Oscar for that umand and I mean you know I I've
seen a couple different likeversions of you know
(38:25):
interpretations of the the Craybrothers but his remote like my
100% full opinion that is theBritish Goodfellas.
Yeah it it it it has a tall it'slike written like like
goodfellas you know and and likeuh the the straight brother that
(38:47):
is the more you know the onewith all his marbles kind of
running you know is is likepretty much like a mixture of
like I guess you could say DeNiro Jimmy uh Paulie and and you
know Leota before you know he hestarted going down the the drug
route and and his his gaybrother the psychopath yeah is
(39:13):
basically Joe Joe Pesci uh JoePesci yeah you know that is
crazy unhinged exactly exactlyand it's it's it's just like I I
I saw that uh you know like Iit's it's one of my favorite
most like more recent filmsespecially in the the the
English gangster genre becausethe only main director that that
(39:38):
I follow that you know is is inthat genre pretty much is his
genre is Guy Ritchie.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Yeah and and then there's the other film um a Lair
Cake with Daniel Craig that's aclassic film yeah that's a class
that's one of the first everones wasn't it that was done and
it it sums up about drug dealingand drug mafia about the rhymes
keep going it's a good film LairCake really like that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Yeah Lair Cake is Lair Cake I actually I I think
is more like in the roots oftraditional like gangster films
and even you know English forEnglish gangster films.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah but you know I mean I I like I I really like
guy rich I mean snatch you knowit's it's is a classic yeah you
know lock stock you know hisfirst film you know I are really
appreciated for its likeingenuity with like doing
different stuff with yeah cameratechniques and stuff like that
(40:35):
that you really don't seeanymore you know uh now it was
like the that that was 99 Ithink which was like the last
that was when you had the Matrixand you know I think Blade was
like 97 or something 98 in thattime frame so it was like the
last kind of like you know yearin the 90s where you had like
(40:57):
different camera styles andtechniques and well the man
behind you with Dust Till DawnTarantino he he's another one
isn't he yeah yeah yeah usesthose totally avant-garde
totally different style camerastorytelling really yeah yeah
and um I I I like that kind ofstuff as well it's raw it's it's
(41:17):
it's got a level of honesty toit and a level of you you can
buy into it and immerse yourselfin that story because there's a
lot of elements to it that youcan relate to in normal life.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Right from Dust Till Dawn about going to a T I'm
going to twist to meet a lot ofvampires but yeah it's like yeah
that that that's that and andthe the the first Dust till dawn
is one of my all-time favoritevampire films and horror films.
I I mean you know the the thecollaboration between Tarantino
(41:52):
rewriting the script andRodriguez you know directing it
and having that that that thatlike Texas you know bring up you
know you know the only the onlyyou you know people are from
Texas and the West with withlike us when they have that
(42:13):
writing style and and likeshooting style that's
specifically you could only befrom like the West to kind of
have that that like trying tofind the right word not to it's
not look but maybe like vibe andyeah like it's it's got a
certain aesthetic hasn't it's alot of yes yes that's it that's
it yeah yeah that someone fromlike the east coast like it
(42:38):
wouldn't be the same you knowlike if you're like Martin
Scorsese couldn't do a a westernas good as like someone who was
a filmmaker from the West youknow because he he's really good
he's from New York you know solike in all his movies for the
(43:00):
most part take place in New Yorkand then rightfully so because
that's what he knows.
What's up all my fishes in thesea thanks again for tuning in
and for being a subscriber yourcontinued support means a lot I
want to let all my guppies inthe sea know you can now
(43:22):
purchase custom fishbowl merchby DMing me Samfish on Instagram
at thefishbull88 or on Facebookat the fishbowl.
Get hooked on yours today wehave custom t-shirts, mugs,
pens, handbags, hats, beanies,hoodies everything to make you
the coolest looking fish in thecity.
(43:43):
And if that's not enough I amnow accepting early access
subscribers on my Buzzproutwebsite.
That's right you can subscribefor early access to the
Fishpool's content as well as Iam accepting donations to help
keep the show going.
Again you support one of themost the most important fishes
(44:03):
in the sea to keep communitygoing.
SPEAKER_01 (44:05):
Uh thanks again y'all for keep tuning in and
let's all keep swimming upstreamset me free solitary state
penitentiary stone cold floorsmash brass bells against
(44:26):
remitting doors turnkey off timefelon of the free tread wheel
neighbours bars of disbeliefbarricading wall bandwide fence
sandstone holes criticallycondemned throw me into the
(44:55):
pigeon room desperate tungin forthis dogging wheel false
failures form foundations andthe yeoman review revelations
turn the key turn the key lifesentence recycles complete I
jump to bar to forge the freedomlion's share of this uncased
(45:20):
kingdom I don't look throughfingered hands doors unhinged
with a battering ram debtor crewto the sordid system Trojan
(45:43):
horse completes its mission Idon't deal in grape and grave I
fall I fold among crashing wavesdebt crew tests my sanity
lessons learned you cannot beatgravity gravity crooked bats
(46:13):
self indulgence fear of anyconsequence white our walls
echoes form vindicated violatedvoice crooked bats self
indulgence fear of anyconsequence white our walls
echoes form vindicated violatedvoice voice have a choice voice
(46:44):
voice have a choice
What's up all my fishes in the sea?
Thanks for tuning into the FishBowl.
I'm your host Sam Fish andtoday's guest is Jack Horner
from the critically acclaimed UKpsychedelic rock band The Dirt.
We talked about music, film, andhis newly released album Monkey
Punch with the hit single Chaos.
Tune in and check it out.
(04:54):
Welcome.
SPEAKER_02 (04:56):
Welcome, thank you very much.
Thank you for having me.
Cheers, Sam.
SPEAKER_00 (04:59):
Absolutely, cheers.
Thank you for taking the time toswim in the bowl with me.
SPEAKER_02 (05:04):
Yeah, that's it, yeah.
That's great.
Little fish in a big ocean, eh?
Yep, yep, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (05:12):
Uh just swimming on swimming on by, swimming
upstream, you know.
That's it, gotta do our littlebit.
Exactly, exactly.
You know, like I I like to thinkof myself as a mixture between a
uh shark and a salmon.
You know.
SPEAKER_01 (05:26):
Oh really?
SPEAKER_00 (05:27):
Because the the shark, you know, you gotta be a
shark, you know, to swim withthe top dogs, but you also gotta
be a salmon to swim against thestream.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (05:38):
I like that.
Good.
I I I think I'd be a squid or anoctopus.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I I seem to have fingersin a lot of pies.
Multitask, a lot of smallprojects.
None that are massive, they'reall they're all small, so I
(05:59):
yeah, I I get my tentacles outand um I'm a writer, so ink's
perfect.
So yeah, I don't know.
That's a weird that's a weirdway to start, isn't it?
What what marine animal wouldyou be?
SPEAKER_00 (06:11):
Subconsciously.
I think I might actually startthat as like a new segment with
each other.
Yeah, start.
Which fish would you be?
You know, yeah, what would yoube?
Which sea animal, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
Yeah.
In the landscape of theaquarium, where do you find
yourself?
SPEAKER_00 (06:25):
Exactly, exactly, you know.
Great analogy for life.
SPEAKER_02 (06:29):
Yeah, isn't it?
Yeah, just just take us allunder the water and say, where
would you survive in thistotally new landscape?
SPEAKER_00 (06:36):
Right, right.
And and uh the greatest thingabout uh the ocean is you know,
there's plenty of fish in thesea.
SPEAKER_02 (06:42):
There is plenty of fish in the sea, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:44):
There's room for everyone.
Yeah, there is exactly exceptwith this uh crazy world we live
in, which by the way, I've I'velistened to uh Monkey Punch a
couple times now.
What a phenomenal album from youguys.
It might be probably my myfavorite one to uh to date.
(07:05):
I I follow you guys on Band Campand everything, you know, on
following on Facebook, and whata monkey punch, uh power punch
of uh of lyrics with so much,you know, uh subject of society,
where we're at, what is going onin the world, but also without
(07:29):
like doing it in such a waywhere like here on the States,
it's like if you voted forTrump, you know, you're you're a
uh a racist and uh a white bigotand and you know a Nazi and all
that.
And if you voted for Harris orBiden, you know, it's it's like
(07:51):
civil war essentially, you know,and you know, I don't voice my
political opinions on air atleast.
You know, I I definitely voicethem.
Just not not on air, but I findit like very, you know, it's
like England, the UK, the EU,Australia, it's all, you know,
(08:14):
the the it's all like Western,you know, influenced countries
and everything, and we all seemto be kind of going through a
lot of the same issues, boththrough education, politically,
stuff like that.
And I just have to say that theyou know, like in the 90s you
(08:39):
had Rage Against the Machine,you know, all not even just the
90s, like going back to youknow, British invasion, Lenin,
Hendricks, you know, all theBeatles, you know, all the all
the major British invasion, youknow, bands and and you know,
American bands of the theoriginal, like, you know, major
(09:01):
first wave of like rock and rollback in the 60s and 70s.
I mean, and and the 90s, I kindof compare as like really the
last like major musical movementwhere it was not just a musical
movement, it was an artisticmovement.
It was like you had bandstalking about political stuff,
(09:24):
you had bands talking about thearts and and just you know life
and and you know theirexperiences, and you don't like
have that anymore, at least inthe mainstream.
It's like all all the music thatI I listen to is you know, like
your stuff, stuff from Fuzz ClubRecords, Little Cloud Records,
(09:46):
you know, heavy spike sounds,rise above, you know, all the
stuff that is like really thelast, like really underground,
like thriving movements of ofrock and roll.
And you know, I was listening toyour your album again yesterday
to like refresh myself with it.
(10:06):
And you know, you said you're awriter.
I I'm a writer as well.
I went to school forscreenwriting here in
Pittsburgh, and you know, I knowall about like listening and
just deciphering lyrics and andall that.
And the next to the last song onthe album, I wrote it down here,
oak.
There's a couple lyrics you sayin there, and one of them stood
(10:29):
out to me like really more thanany any of the other ones on the
entire album.
And I wrote it down here, andit's Protons Neutrons Controlled
by Morons.
You know, and I I when I heardthat, I'm like, that that not
only stood out to me, it's likeyes, yes, absolutely, 100%, not
(10:56):
just in the US, but you know, ifyou look around the world, you
know, it's everywhere.
You know, it's like the state ofof like, you know, whatever,
wherever we're at in societyright now, you know, it's I I
look I took those those lyricsspecifically, you know, out of
all the other ones and all theother songs on the album.
(11:18):
That one really stood out to meand I was like, holy shit.
Like, like, what a great way notjust to like mock it, but also
like summarize it in a very likephilosophical way to kind of say
like whether you're an American,you know, uh a bred, you know,
(11:41):
Scott, Irish, you know, EU,whatever, Australian, wherever
you're from, it's like it's allthe same.
You know, and I I just was likethat that lyric, like, and and
that song in particular reallystood out to me.
And I was like, that that islike the music that we need.
(12:02):
That is like the artisticmovement that like the the world
needs right now.
It's like we need more musiciansand free thinkers.
SPEAKER_03 (12:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
It's like the big thing, you know.
Free thinkers is like, you know,like the biggest thing I hear
about like the Gen Zs is they'renot critical thinkers.
You know, they they they don'tknow how to like, you know,
think for themselves.
And I don't know how true thatis for like the entire, you
know, lot of them, but I cantell from experience in my own
(12:40):
crossings that it's it'sdefinitely uh true to a certain
extent.
SPEAKER_02 (12:46):
I I think like then lyrics, and I think it's all
about the world is set up fordivision now, isn't it?
It's it's like left or right,blue or red or exactly or gay or
black or white, and the world isset up that currently in the
current climate, and this iswithout I don't know too much,
but with Fox News or with whatwe've got over in the UK and
(13:08):
anywhere, it's all aboutdivision.
You have to choose a side whichis wrong.
And and and my words areliterally like that lyric that
you just quoted.
It's like we are all atoms, weare all the skin colour is
literally how you deal with thesun, that's what it's about
through evolution.
We are all the same, there aredifferent cultures, there are
people with differentbackgrounds, different with
different thought processes, butwe we're all equal, and and we
(13:31):
should be fighting the system oftotalitarianism and
dictatorships, not fightingbetween ourselves.
And that is kind of where how Iprompt it.
It's it's not about I sit onthis side as a socialist and I'm
telling you you're all wrong onthe other side, you're not
wrong.
You've been brought up, you'vegot your total fine way of jud
judging what you do through yourfamily, your job, your house,
(13:53):
whatever you want to do.
What I'm saying is we should beworking together, and we should
be telling we should be tellingthese people in charge, you do
not have a free reign to abuseus.
And and and that is kind ofwhere I want to go with monkey
punch that if we keep fightingwith each other, the apes will
take over, or someone else willcome out of the water with the
next generation, and when a newspecies will rule this earth,
because we are messing it up,and and that is in a succinct
(14:17):
message what I'm talking about.
And and I think what youmentioned there about the Gen Z
and about generations, we dothink different, we've brought
up differently with socialmedia.
There's a fear of offendingthese days, whether it be
through comedy or throughstraight talking, that people of
a generation that probably wewere from, if we didn't like
(14:38):
someone or a thought in public,in a bar, at a match, at
football, or anywhere in public,we would be happy to say, mate,
that's wrong.
Unfortunately, these days it allgets put onto a platform online
and people are brought up.
People are brought updifferently, and it's easier to
be abusive and threaten and andthan it it than it was.
And I think by that we monitorit that we cannot be outspoken.
(15:01):
There is nothing wrong withbeing opinionated and outspoken.
It is literally how your mum anddad taught you to be polite and
nice and deliver it in a verynice, succinct way, rather than
and and and it's kind of gotlost.
I think it's got diluted and andlost as the the ability to
communicate.
And it's not a generation'sfault, it's the way society has
changed and the way computershave the way the computers took
(15:22):
over, and we've become relianton getting our information off a
screen rather than walking to ashop and buying a newspaper or
or l or talking to your friendsand networking like we used to
do at festivals in theunderground.
But it's nice that all thosethings you mentioned of all
those labels and record people,that they they are still
thriving.
And and there is a I I I I I Ilook online and and I see what's
(15:45):
going on in the States and inand in other parts of that side
of the world.
And and and with my wife beingJapanese, there is a thriving
underground and there is athriving subculture, and and we
need that because if that getsmuted, uh the system's beat us,
and uh we we have to keepsharing it.
I was only saying that to myneighbour today that we need to
(16:05):
shout, and as people with anelement of uh vocal point, we we
we have a privilege to tell theworld through writing, through
story, through music, what wethink is wrong, and it's whether
for people to agree or disagreewith us, and you shouldn't be
offended if someone disagreeswith you.
It's it's literally a point ofview.
Opinions are like backsides,everyone's got one.
We've just got some of us havegot bigger ones than others.
(16:27):
That's kind of what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00 (16:29):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
And I've got a lot of I've got a lot of opinions.
I just choose to not sit on thefence but say, Here's my
thought, I'm gonna put it into alyric, I'm gonna put it into a
song.
SPEAKER_00 (16:39):
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
Tell me what you think.
I'm just gonna provoke yourthoughts and and you can decide
whether I'm right or wrong.
Whether you whether you agree ordisagree, there's a there's a
message in there from which I'mexperiencing through any other
one of my senses, and I'm justsaying it how it is from my
eyes, which I believe is quiteunbigoted, fair, balanced.
SPEAKER_00 (16:59):
I I I completely agree.
I mean, and and going back toMonkey Punch, first of all, the
the album just gets better andbetter as it goes along.
After listening to it, like it'sit's a phenomenal album, but
it's one of those albums thatlike starts out really good, and
then as you listen to like thejourney of you know, the the
(17:23):
progression of the songs and thechords and the lyrics and you
know, going from the intro trackto the very end with chaos, it's
it's definitely a journey, butit in in my opinion it kind of
just gets better and better asyou go along, you know, and and
(17:44):
then when you reach the end, itit's like you know, you you've
you it it's literally like likelike being a writer and telling
a story, and what I've learnedin going to screenwriting
school, it's like there's thatthree-act structure, at least in
you know what the the modern thewhat the Greeks came up with and
(18:07):
what became like you know thethree-act structure was
storytelling.
And it it the album for sure hasthat like beginning act, the
mid-act, and and the final act.
And really like toward towardsthe end with like the the climax
(18:29):
and when you get to the finaltrack, chaos, it's like at the
end, it just is like wow, likethis was not just like a great
rock album and you know, psych,you know, psych rock album.
You know, it was it wasliterally like, you know, I
listened to a lot of stuff thatJason Shaw, you know, produces
(18:50):
and all the bands that you know,I mean he in my opinion, he's
he's one of like the last greatnot just musicians, but like
producers and you know findingbands and helping bands out that
like in in my opinion is one ofthe the most reliable labels, as
(19:15):
well as like putting out likejust phenomenal bands in the in
the in in like the psych rockgenre.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:30):
They do, yeah.
He's unbelievable to work withhis Jason, he's very
knowledgeable.
And and when we did this secondalbum, the first one we've done
in Manchester with It'sTatchiko's built uh pedal
boards, and I've changed mylyrics and we've built
percussion.
And when we decided, we we wesaid Jason was the one of the
only people we wanted to workwith because he's guitar, he's a
pedal head, he's worked withbands that have then gone onto
(19:50):
Fuzz Club, he's but he he workswith friends of ours, Helicon.
And literally we went, Jason'sthe one, he he's gonna get our
music and he's gonna help usproduce something which is gonna
be uh wholesome and is gonna getthe best out of what Satchiko
produces through through herpedals.
And and it it we we were rightin the end, and and it was
(20:11):
great, he's become a goodfriend, and and it his
techniques were really good.
And he was shocked at first whenI said we could do an album in
two days, and he was like,Really?
Oh, I was like, Okay, so we wentup and and we did it in two
days.
Um wow because because we werecord it all live and we don't
have a drummer, and and there'sonly two of us, so we would do
two or three takes, decide thebest on last scratch vocals, and
(20:34):
then I'll just go raw down a micand put the the the the the the
vocals on in the in the lastafternoon.
And he was like, Wow, I've neverdone an album in two days, and
then we went out for dinner, andthen we it was like wow, there
we go.
But let's hear what it soundslike when it's mixed, and we
were just amazed at what he cameup with.
It was just wow, but it it stilltransposes to live because we
are a live band and there isonly two of us, there is nowhere
(20:56):
to hide.
We are literally guitars,percussion, vocals.
And when I say percussion, it'svery much my wonky sample pad
electric drums.
So there is nowhere to hide.
So doing it like recording livetakes was it's our way, and and
we like to do that.
I think it it keeps that energylike you were talking about, the
drive, the continuous increaseand the momentum, and offers
(21:18):
resilience.
So you've got to give iteverything, and and it comes out
on the vinyl and it comes out onthe recording then.
So yeah, it was the it's it'sthe only way that we really know
how or able to to lay tracksdown for recording.
It's um it's a nice way of doingit.
It's organic, it's it keeps theenergy in there.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (21:36):
Some bands sound better studio and when you see
them live, it's like, yeah, I Ilike the studio stuff better.
And then there's musicians thatyou simply cannot contain.
What like the I mean, I don'tknow what the right word, like
the essence, the the drive, youknow, the the spirit of uh of of
(22:00):
what the ban is, you know, likelike going back to Hendrix, you
know, you couldn't contain whatwhat he had in his studio.
No, no.
And it's kind of ironic that,you know, he he passed as early
as he did.
And therefore, like, he only didwhat, like three actual like
(22:22):
studio recorded albums.
I know they released liketechnically his fourth, but you
know, he's not even like singingon a lot of the tracks because
it was like a rights issue andfor for decades.
And they finally like was like,you know, we'll we'll release
it.
And forget what the album iscalled, but it it has like a lot
(22:44):
of songs that he ended upplaying live, like Hear My
Trainer Coming, and some a fewother songs that were on there
that were all ended up beingplayed live.
And you know, as much as I waslike, you know, I you know
Hendrix is like my favoriteguitarist of all time, one of my
(23:04):
top probably five favoritemusicians from that era.
And you know as as much as I wasexcited to to listen to the
album and I I did as soon as itcame out and listened to its
entirety the whole way through Iwas like you know this is this
is I I I guess I like that theyyou know put it together to
(23:28):
release it.
But like I think I would havepreferred if if you know I was
alive back when you know he wasthriving to to hear this and
then maybe they could have youknow added vocals in or
something because a lot of thetracks it's just like
instrumentals because it's likethey never he wasn't alive he'd
(23:50):
passed before they could laydown the the vocals for all the
tracks.
But at the same time likehearing as much as I've heard
hearing my trainer coming liveyou know and then I compare it
to to hearing it on you know thethe final you know technically
studio you know album I'm likethis just doesn't compare.
(24:14):
I mean especially because I meanfirst of all hear my trainer
coming is probably the the baneof gypsies live at the film
version of that that song it'slike nine and a half minutes
something like that maybe clclose to 10 and that specific
version because obviously he'syou know performed countless you
(24:37):
know live studio albums withdifferent versions of like Red
House and you know Hear MyTrainer Coming and all these
classic songs you know from hishis first three studio albums
you know it just is like to meit was like it doesn't get any
better than than hearing Hear MyTrainer Coming you know live at
(24:58):
the film and especially if iflike I want to trip out you know
and smoke some reefer and likereally listen like dive into
some some old you know classicyou know hits and jams you know
and stuff but I mean the thestudio it just doesn't compare.
And with you guys you know I Iwish I hope you know at some
(25:22):
point you can come to the statesand and I can I can see the or I
I come over to the UK or evenJapan or something you know and
I get to see you guys like thethe whole like live you know
drive and essence the spirit youknow of the Dart you know
performing live but it's like II can I can tell you know with
(25:46):
with with Monkey Punch that it'slike there is a lot of of like
energy yeah you know with withyou guys that I can hear it in
the studio and also by the wayone one thing I love love about
listening to old music anddiscovering new music is when I
(26:09):
I see a band that has liketracks that are you know really
six minutes or longer.
Yeah if if you know I'm likeI've had this conversation with
a lot of other musicians and youbrought up Helicon my hat John
Paul Hughes on the show while ohnice good lot that was a great
(26:29):
chat and I even talked aboutthis with him it's like you know
like I I'm uh I'm like a dyingbreed you know with with like on
the topic of like bringing GenZers up again it's like I was
born in 88 so and I just had abirthday so you know I'm like uh
actually chaos was released onmy birthday yeah so that that
(26:54):
was a good a really goodbirthday present to to jam out
to and you know it just is likethe the Gen Zers and and this
goes for film too with thembecause of everything we just
you know talked about brieflywith like social media and
TikTok and you know Facebook andInstagram with like you know
(27:16):
reels and you know only kind ofhaving the attention span of
like a a ferret or something.
SPEAKER_02 (27:23):
You know yeah that's what it is it's the tension
spans isn't it it's like a goodI I love a good two three hour
film but now everything isNetflix which means it's 30
minute series so your theattention span is smaller.
Spotify and and and and I Imeant to mention this and when
we were talking and you you weretalking about monkey punch as an
album bands older or people wecurate an album to tell a story
(27:49):
which will last 42 minutes andsqueeze as much onto a 42 minute
vinyl as we can the currentclimate is one Spotify track and
people are moving on.
They'll listen to it and they'llmove on.
Swite right squite right it'slike dating swipe right swipe
right whatever people do ontheir dating sites.
Right I've seen that swipe rightmy attention span's gone Netflix
do the same that they will showfilm in five parts effectively
(28:11):
or whatever they're doing.
So Spotify as well takes awaythe curatorism of a of an album
which we still as two fifty wellI'm 54 the wife's 53 we still
used we've grown up in a vinylage where we'll hear the crackle
and we'll play an album flip itover and we'll listen to it and
we'll judge the album on thealbum not just the first two
(28:33):
minutes of a three minute trackand and and like you said with a
six minute track it radio issaying we don't play your tracks
if it's over three and a halffour minutes I need a radio I'm
like I'm like that song's sixand a half minutes and I can't
take any of my words or any ofSatchiko's guitars out of there.
It's six and a half minutes andit's staying at six and a half
minutes whether you like it ornot because there's there's a
(28:54):
story to be told like you saythe beginning the midsection and
the L so what do you want me todo check out an introduction
check out a conclusion check outa middle section it it don't
work the song is theneffectively chopped up and
minced and it means nothingexactly exactly and and and
that's exactly the point I wasgetting to it's like people like
me you know because I I'm like II think technically the cutoff
(29:18):
for people like me is is 1990.
SPEAKER_00 (29:22):
It's like what once you get to like 91 and and and
on like I've noticed that thatthat's the generation where like
it really has shifted not justlike with with entertainment and
music and film but with thewhole politically you know and
(29:43):
the ideas that are going on andcirculating around you know all
over the world essentially rightnow and that has almost caused
us to be as divided as we are.
And like I my my sister was bornin 91 and and I notice a clear
(30:04):
definitive clear difference inhow you know I think and what I
like and not just her but youknow her you know I grew up with
her friends and you know andthen seeing like you know people
younger than her and I went toschool you know college you know
(30:25):
late so I was like you know agood few years older than a lot
of the the kids that I I I wentto school with.
And you know a lot of themlooked up to me and I feel like
I I went to college at like justthe right time because you know
some of the stuff that wasforming with like I mean I could
(30:48):
definitely tell there was likegoing to be a division of like
what we were talking about withthe right versus the left and
and all that.
And I also could tell that therewas a lot of anti-semitism like
under the it was it was comingto like a peak.
(31:09):
It was gonna it was gonnaexplode into what is going on on
the campuses around the worldyou know right now and
everything going on that waskind of inevitable to happen in
the Middle East.
But it's it's like I I Idefinitely noticed that like it
(31:30):
was definitely I want to say the91 on it that that was the major
shift because people you knowthe I have friends that are like
you know born you know in thethe mid late 90s and that that
aren't like that but you knowfor instance like the attention
(31:50):
span thing like for me I'm surefor you as well Blade Runner is
probably one of one of yourfavorite films.
It's one of my top top fivefavorite films sci-fi films of
all time.
SPEAKER_02 (32:04):
I've had conversations with you know you
know I'm I'm just turned 37 I'vehad conversations with younger
you know kids that are youngadults that are like I guess
just turning 30 or you know likelate 20s and you know they they
(32:24):
asked me in fact you know I I Idated a girl who was like in her
in her mid-20s and she you knowthe first night we're hanging
out and she was like really inthe movies and stuff and she was
like what's you you don't likeBlade Runner do you I was like
yeah I like Blade Runner it'slike one of my top five favorite
uh films sci-fi films of alltime you know and she's she went
(32:48):
she literally went like ohyou're one of those yeah and one
of those and then I said well II I'm thinking to myself okay
well you know that that kind ofends you know that's the end of
that and then uh that god wefound this one out on the first
day and not a year later rightyou know yeah you know but but
(33:11):
like uh and then I started likeasking you know other people
just you know at various jobsI've worked and you know just
just at conventions and stuffand it's like you know they all
that whole it's it's actuallymore I want to say like the the
(33:32):
mid to late nineties to the2000s kids that are now like in
their you know turning 21 andyou know Jesus like technically
25 you know if we would go therebut it's kind of crazy to think
but I think this has this hasgot a lot to do with the
millennia shift hasn't it uhwhere we always thought the
world was going to end it didn'tend it just that line the world
(33:54):
changed I think and and peoplethat were like you said born in
who turned into their doublefigure preteens pre-pubescent
that were just in the in theshift of the millennia they were
brought up once they got intopost pubescent age the internet
just dropped on their lap whilstthey were developing as adults
and and it's like this hugething just suddenly landed on
(34:17):
their lap and their world justexploded open whereas I
tentatively went around theinternet going oh this this is a
this is a foreign thing to methis is alien I don't trust it
it took me years to do internetbanking it took me years to have
a card it took me years to go tosocial media properly I I'm like
treading very slowly and I thinkwith with trepidation and I
(34:38):
think we did that but with themit landed on their lap and they
ran with it and that's whereattention spans with the
internet that you could justclick move click move the life
changed seriously did with andthen we had obviously streaming
then we we had Netflix we talkedabout programs films different
(34:58):
and that world totally changedand I think that where we looked
into a post sci-fi dystopianworld as something that was
intriguing we we're kind of nowliving among some of that and
that's what that's what monkeypunch is it's a dystopian
post-apocalyptic story that ifwe're not careful that we're
(35:19):
gonna live the monkey punch andand I just want to tell it so
yeah right and and and you knowBlade Runner again it's like
look look at how much thatanother reason why it's one of
my favorite films is look at howaccurate you know I I mean I
mean it it said 2019 which youknow was a little early but look
(35:41):
look where we're at and how muchof like Blade Runner is is has
come true.
SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
Yeah the year might have been off a little bit but
uh it's quite accurate for thetime when the film was written
yeah exactly exactly and and Imean one of the only like actual
sequels not a not a reboot anactual sequel that I was like
(36:08):
totally okay with was the BladeRunner sequel they did uh was it
20 2049 I I per I saw that inIMAX theaters you know it was
technically pre-COVID and uh youknow I was like first of all
when I saw the timeline it waslike almost three hours long I
was like yes yeah you know thisis this is a fight back against
(36:33):
the system and the current normisn't it three hour film exactly
you know and and and how ironicthat that the film the first
Blade Runner when it came outtotally underperformed totally
was misunderstood totally likeuh receptive like in a in a not
(36:55):
the best way but it was like itbecame an instant call classic
yeah and that's when cultclassics and subcultures are
formed aren't they whensomething goes against the norm
and they don't get familiarityin popular culture.
Exactly and and the sequel didthe exact same thing you know
people in this generation didn'tunderstand it they you know a
(37:16):
lot of people I mean I rememberwhen Fury Road came out the the
first you know reboot of Mad Maxand I I remember being in the
audience and this this thisyoung couple was like in the the
row above me and the girl thethe guy's girlfriend or whatever
(37:37):
was like you know had never seenany of the the Mel Gibson
trilogy before and she was justthere with him he had obviously
seen it but but she was onlythere because of Tom Hardy you
know which is a uh one of myfavorite actors and in a in uh
Brit and everything so yeah thatthat that guy on on the subject
(38:02):
of movies real quick and and inin uh England and all that the
movie he did where he was heplayed the the the cray twins
yeah played both parts didn't heyeah yeah you know he should
have won an Oscar for that umand and I mean you know I I've
seen a couple different likeversions of you know
(38:25):
interpretations of the the Craybrothers but his remote like my
100% full opinion that is theBritish Goodfellas.
Yeah it it it it has a tall it'slike written like like
goodfellas you know and and likeuh the the straight brother that
(38:47):
is the more you know the onewith all his marbles kind of
running you know is is likepretty much like a mixture of
like I guess you could say DeNiro Jimmy uh Paulie and and you
know Leota before you know he hestarted going down the the drug
route and and his his gaybrother the psychopath yeah is
(39:13):
basically Joe Joe Pesci uh JoePesci yeah you know that is
crazy unhinged exactly exactlyand it's it's it's just like I I
I saw that uh you know like Iit's it's one of my favorite
most like more recent filmsespecially in the the the
English gangster genre becausethe only main director that that
(39:38):
I follow that you know is is inthat genre pretty much is his
genre is Guy Ritchie.
SPEAKER_02 (39:44):
Yeah and and then there's the other film um a Lair
Cake with Daniel Craig that's aclassic film yeah that's a class
that's one of the first everones wasn't it that was done and
it it sums up about drug dealingand drug mafia about the rhymes
keep going it's a good film LairCake really like that.
SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Yeah Lair Cake is Lair Cake I actually I I think
is more like in the roots oftraditional like gangster films
and even you know English forEnglish gangster films.
SPEAKER_02 (40:13):
Yeah but you know I mean I I like I I really like
guy rich I mean snatch you knowit's it's is a classic yeah you
know lock stock you know hisfirst film you know I are really
appreciated for its likeingenuity with like doing
different stuff with yeah cameratechniques and stuff like that
(40:35):
that you really don't seeanymore you know uh now it was
like the that that was 99 Ithink which was like the last
that was when you had the Matrixand you know I think Blade was
like 97 or something 98 in thattime frame so it was like the
last kind of like you know yearin the 90s where you had like
(40:57):
different camera styles andtechniques and well the man
behind you with Dust Till DawnTarantino he he's another one
isn't he yeah yeah yeah usesthose totally avant-garde
totally different style camerastorytelling really yeah yeah
and um I I I like that kind ofstuff as well it's raw it's it's
(41:17):
it's got a level of honesty toit and a level of you you can
buy into it and immerse yourselfin that story because there's a
lot of elements to it that youcan relate to in normal life.
SPEAKER_00 (41:29):
Right from Dust Till Dawn about going to a T I'm
going to twist to meet a lot ofvampires but yeah it's like yeah
that that that's that and andthe the the first Dust till dawn
is one of my all-time favoritevampire films and horror films.
I I mean you know the the thecollaboration between Tarantino
(41:52):
rewriting the script andRodriguez you know directing it
and having that that that thatlike Texas you know bring up you
know you know the only the onlyyou you know people are from
Texas and the West with withlike us when they have that
(42:13):
writing style and and likeshooting style that's
specifically you could only befrom like the West to kind of
have that that like trying tofind the right word not to it's
not look but maybe like vibe andyeah like it's it's got a
certain aesthetic hasn't it's alot of yes yes that's it that's
it yeah yeah that someone fromlike the east coast like it
(42:38):
wouldn't be the same you knowlike if you're like Martin
Scorsese couldn't do a a westernas good as like someone who was
a filmmaker from the West youknow because he he's really good
he's from New York you know solike in all his movies for the
(43:00):
most part take place in New Yorkand then rightfully so because
that's what he knows.
What's up all my fishes in thesea thanks again for tuning in
and for being a subscriber yourcontinued support means a lot I
want to let all my guppies inthe sea know you can now
(43:22):
purchase custom fishbowl merchby DMing me Samfish on Instagram
at thefishbull88 or on Facebookat the fishbowl.
Get hooked on yours today wehave custom t-shirts, mugs,
pens, handbags, hats, beanies,hoodies everything to make you
the coolest looking fish in thecity.
(43:43):
And if that's not enough I amnow accepting early access
subscribers on my Buzzproutwebsite.
That's right you can subscribefor early access to the
Fishpool's content as well as Iam accepting donations to help
keep the show going.
Again you support one of themost the most important fishes
(44:03):
in the sea to keep communitygoing.
SPEAKER_01 (44:05):
Uh thanks again y'all for keep tuning in and
let's all keep swimming upstreamset me free solitary state
penitentiary stone cold floorsmash brass bells against
(44:26):
remitting doors turnkey off timefelon of the free tread wheel
neighbours bars of disbeliefbarricading wall bandwide fence
sandstone holes criticallycondemned throw me into the
(44:55):
pigeon room desperate tungin forthis dogging wheel false
failures form foundations andthe yeoman review revelations
turn the key turn the key lifesentence recycles complete I
jump to bar to forge the freedomlion's share of this uncased
(45:20):
kingdom I don't look throughfingered hands doors unhinged
with a battering ram debtor crewto the sordid system Trojan
(45:43):
horse completes its mission Idon't deal in grape and grave I
fall I fold among crashing wavesdebt crew tests my sanity
lessons learned you cannot beatgravity gravity crooked bats
(46:13):
self indulgence fear of anyconsequence white our walls
echoes form vindicated violatedvoice crooked bats self
indulgence fear of anyconsequence white our walls
echoes form vindicated violatedvoice voice have a choice voice
(46:44):
voice have a choice
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