February 21, 2026 • 64 mins
Step into a smoky Glasgow rehearsal room and meet John Paul Hughes of Helicon, the psychedelic rock band turning influence into something fiercely their own. We go deep on craft, why permanence beats hype, and how to build songs that still feel new decades later. If you’ve ever argued that guitar music is alive and well, this is your proof.
We trace the DNA from The Velvet Underground, Pink Floyd, and Led Zeppelin to Ride, My Bloody Valentine, and The Jesus and Mary Chain, then follow the sound into today’s shoegaze, dream pop, doom, and stoner rock. John Paul breaks down what “psychedelic” really means—less pedal worship, more form-breaking and emotion-driven architecture. Along the way, we celebrate a global map of scenes across the UK, Europe, Australia, and even Cambodia, showing how far this music travels and why it keeps finding new ears.
The conversation lands squarely on the realities of making art now: streaming platforms that make uploading easy and discovery hard, attention spans stretched thin by short-form feeds, and a film ecosystem locked on IP and remakes. We talk arts funding, practicing until the ideas click, and starting a band later in life with a clear sense of purpose. The core takeaway is simple: make the work for yourself first. Listeners can smell the difference between a song built for a trend and a song built to last.
If you care about shoegaze, psychedelic rock, indie craft, and the fight to be heard in a noisy world, you’ll feel at home here. Hit play, share it with a friend who says rock is dead, and leave a review to help more curious listeners find the show.
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Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_04 (00:20):
Attention, all you fishes in the sea.
Come swim on in and check out myinterview with John Paul Hughes
from Glasgow's criticallyacclaimed shoe gate psychedelic
rock band Helicon, where we talkabout music, film, and his newly
released collaboration with OwlLover called A Rise.
Come swim on in and give it alisten.
(00:42):
John Paul Hughes on the fishbowl from Helicon.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Thank you, thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_04 (00:50):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to swim in the bowl with
me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Swamming a few bowls enough time, but it's a
completely different thing.
It can.
SPEAKER_04 (01:10):
A little foggy, a little haze, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Why not, man?
SPEAKER_04 (01:14):
Especially listening to uh Helicon.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
So well, the I am talking to you right now from a
rehearsal space in uh justoutside Glasgow.
And uh the guys are due hereabout 6 30 tonight, um so a
couple hours time, but uh I'vegot a little smokey in here
later, let's say what we've sucha clear view by the time they
(01:38):
arrive.
SPEAKER_04 (01:39):
Right, right, right.
You know, I uh I had to use likethe the squeegee thing, you
know.
And my my next pun is I hope thetemperature is just right.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Well, uh it's about minus six,minus seven degrees here in in
Glasgow just now, so that's beentemperature that's not right,
but we'll sort that later.
Don't worry about that.
That's so good, man.
SPEAKER_04 (02:05):
Exactly.
I gotta go out and shovel afterthis.
So that that's that's what it'slike here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Uh uh is it really?
SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
We've the last uh like week hasbeen nothing but snowstorm, icy,
uh, you know, um basicallyfrozen under the bowl.
Yeah.
You know, I could do fish pondsall day.
I have endless ones, you know.
But we are here to talk aboutHelicon.
(02:33):
You know, I know we've beenfriends on Facebook for a while.
Um I've been an avid follower ofthe band for you know the past
couple years.
Love, love, love the last albumyou guys did, God Intentions.
The the live version.
I like I'm I'm I'm not surewhich album I like more, the
(02:54):
studio version or the liveversion.
Um love both of them.
I you know, I should probablysay equally, but you know,
you're you're one of the bandsthat I I wish at some point in
the future could make it to theStates to do it do a touring
gig, especially come toPittsburgh.
(03:15):
I could I could give you a listof venues that that would that
you guys could play at, but yourmusic and just everything is
like you're you're definitelyone of the bands that I am
envious of all the music that'scoming out of the not just like
the UK and Glasgow, but Europein general.
(03:36):
You know, in the States we haveyou know some good music, but
you know, it's all on theunderground.
And you know, there's like I'vejust noticed that I've been
following different areas of thecountry, you know, where there's
big music scenes and the the twowell, I guess it's technically a
(03:58):
continent, which is Australia,and I guess the country is the
other one is New Zealand.
But I I have seen so many justyou know, they keep popping up
with like not just like youknow, shoe gays and you know,
psychedelic stuff like that, butlike prog rock, you know,
(04:19):
classic rock vibes, like newpunk alternative, a band from
Australia that I'm a huge, hugefan of, but I really want to get
on the show.
Is I'm not sure if you rememberit, then they're called Full
Flower Moon Band.
No, really good, really, reallygood.
Iggy pop on his radio show thatI think is that's in like the
(04:42):
UK, right?
I I think so.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (04:44):
He he featured some uh some of their music on on his
radio show.
Really awesome band.
And you know, I'm just like veryenvious of of the whole UK and
and Europe area, especiallyBerlin is another area that I've
seen a lot of great music comefrom recently with like uh blues
(05:06):
pills and the spiders, and justlike you know, another musician
from the UK that I'm a big fanof is Rosalie Cunningham, who
I'm supposed to eventually geton the show.
But her her latest album was youknow so effing good.
Another artist that's similar toRosalie is uh Bobby Dazzle, who
(05:29):
just released a uh debut albumthis this year, and it's it's
phenomenal as well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
Um I really appreciate you saying that, man,
because I think that it's umobviously, you know, you watch
how you do on streaming servicesand you watch how you do and all
the and and it it's reallyinteresting.
Obviously, we know that that theharm that that that that can do
for for the industry and formusicians, but it's also you
know it's there, it's thereforever, and you're gonna have
(05:55):
to you're gonna have to play thegame whether you like it or not.
And and and to know that that'sreaching people like you, that's
getting to places likePittsburgh, it's getting all
across the States, it's gettinginto these other countries, it
really means a lot.
You know, it allows us to dothat, and and the fact that we
would love to get to the Statesone day.
I really appreciate you sayingthat about the record because it
was there was a lot of time andeffort went into that.
(06:18):
It felt like we had we hadachieved something we'd been
trying to achieve, maybe withthe previous records and and and
had built towards.
So to hear that feedback fromyou and and say that really
means a lot.
And actually, funnily enough, weare moving to a new booking
agent um very soon who is thesame booking agent for Rosalie
Cunningham.
SPEAKER_04 (06:39):
So awesome.
That's uh Cherry Cherry RedRecords.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Uh it's it's it's an individual who we've been we've
been working with who worksthrough different uh through
different agencies.
Um so who knows?
We might we might get the thethe the dream lineup there one
day.
SPEAKER_04 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, what a show, what a show.
I mean, I mean with with Rosaliethe the the one in Bobby Dazzle,
I was promoting the the hell outof it.
Every time I saw it on Facebook,I shared, you know, shared,
shared, shared.
And the show where it was BobbyDazzle opening for Rosalie
(07:14):
Cunningham, like that that wouldhave been a show, was a show
that I was like so envious oflike the the the two power, you
know, female, you know, progrock, like the queen and and the
and the princess essentially,you know, performing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
That would probably make us the gestals in their
coat then dancing around.
Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (07:40):
You know, they they totally could have had, you
know, a gesture, you know, uhdressed up with the type of
music they make, you know.
Um, you know, it totally wouldhave worked, you know.
But that that was a show that Iwas just like, oh my god, you
know, and also like all thefestivals that happen, you know,
and in the UK and in you know,Europe in general.
(08:03):
Some of the ones that I've seenyou play, uh your band play,
Helicon, another dear friend ofmine who I'm sure you know,
Stanley Belton, the black marketkarma.
Um yeah, I've had he was likethe first shoe gaze kind of like
a band that I had on the show,and I am waiting to hear back
from him about getting him onfor a second interview, uh
(08:25):
especially with uh the new EP.
SPEAKER_00 (08:28):
Yeah, he's a really good guy.
In fact, um going back, I think,if I'm not mistaken, I think
Helicon's first ever gig waswith Black Market Karma.
Awesome.
The first time we ever played,it was someone who was in the
band at the time, I think, hadbeen kind of early Facebook
friends with Stan and werefollowing each other.
So Stan and I and my brotherGary have become good friends
(08:49):
over the years, and uh theytravelled all the way up from
London to East Co Bride, thelittle town that we are from,
just outside Glasgow to come andplay with as our first ever
show.
And it's it's been great nowthat we've crossed paths so many
times and we're now both on thesame label and uh and and kind
of seeing each other kind ofcome up through the levels, it's
been great because Stan's a goodguy, he's very, very committed,
(09:10):
you know.
He's the kind of driving forcebehind that that project, and
he's a a bit like Helicon, he'shad a lot of musicians come and
go within the band over theyears because as things start to
build and develop, you know, Ialways say Helicon feels a bit
more like a at times rather thana band, a bit more like a
collective of musicians becausewe just have to continually
(09:31):
evolve and move forward.
And sometimes, you know, as asas as bands get a little bit
more, as the demands become morefor touring and for recording,
it can be difficult as you know,none of us are teenagers
anymore.
Um so we all uh we we all uh weall have other demands on our
time.
So you can understand why somepeople maybe need to come away
(09:51):
from it, but Stan's been the oneconstant that that that's driven
that band, Black Market Karma,through to where they are now,
and and there's been a lot ofsimilarities as we've kind of
come through that alongside eachother, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (10:02):
Definitely, definitely.
I mean, one person who you cantell him this from me, and I'll
shoot him a message on Facebookas well, but Jason Shaw with
with Fuzz Club Records.
There there's I've learnedbasically of like the different
labels, you know, that that youknow make the type of music that
(10:23):
I love listening to.
And I like to consider myselflike a music aficionado, like
you know, I like all differentgenres of music, but if I had to
like you know center it on onegenre, I would definitely be
more of a rocker than you knowany other genre.
And with that, it's like I loveJimi Hendrix and and you know
(10:48):
the British invasion music withlike the Beatles and The Who and
Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, andthen the doors, and you know,
just all the the classic classicrock stuff, how that like you
know evolved, and you had likepunk, and punk was a huge scene,
(11:08):
especially in the UK and the US.
And then like you had like thethe grunge movement, which like
you know, I kind of considerlike the last, you know, actual
like universal musical movementthat that that we we had.
And you know, that was likeuniversally worldwide, not just
(11:34):
for grunge, but I mean, go intoyou know, one of the
fundamentals of what shoe gazehas become, obviously the dandy
warholes and the Brian Jonestownmassacre, along with like Ride,
which really want to interviewthose guys, you know, and then
like you know, the Jesus MaryChain, My Bloody Valentine, you
(11:57):
know, bands that help form, youknow, the what what shoe gaze
and dream pop and what that thatsound has like specifically
developed into today, you canreally attribute to like those
bands, and then even furtherback with classic rock, Lou
Reed, The Velvet Underground,and Pink Floyd as being big, you
(12:21):
know, major influences thatwould later, you know, become
what shoe gaze has kind ofturned into.
But you know, it's like my twofavorite genres, ironically,
because they contrast eachother, is is like shoe gaze
dream pop.
I can't get enough of it, andthe con contrastic, like you
(12:43):
know, like sabbathian metal,like yeah, like like the old
school, you know, Sabbath, likedoom metal, stoner metal, stoner
rock, like that that stuff I'mreally, really into.
The only type of metal that Ikind of have a big I can't
listen to is like ruble.
(13:05):
You know, but if if it's likemetal and and and the in the and
back to like Rosalie and BobbyDazzle, you know, hearing like
prog rock, well, you know, likelike you know, the amazing music
they they create, and hearinglike like again, blues pills and
like the spiders and just bandslike them.
(13:28):
And I'll even throw another oneout there bringing up the doors,
birth of joy.
Birth of joy is is like hearingthe doors, you know, literally
reincarnated.
Yeah, you know, so you know,hearing like bands that aren't
necessarily like prog rock andthey're not necessarily like,
you know, psychedelic or heavymetal, but they have the it's
(13:51):
like a it's kind of like youknow, a clockwork orange in a
sense, you know, like like thethe old is is is like you know
new again, you know, and it'sjust in society in general, it's
like literally living.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah, I think you say that the the old becomes the
new again.
It's it's it's you know nothingwill ever be entirely original,
but I I think the most importantthing that you can do if if
you're gonna have any level ofintegrity around the music,
you're trying to make you try tocreate something with a a level
of permanency that will lastthat that that is not part of a
(14:28):
uh a fleeting era or phase orbandwagon or anything like that
that's on it.
And and and and so you're alwaysgoing to draw from somewhere.
But I think what's mostimportant is is you know you can
take it from wherever you want,but where do you take it to?
What are you gonna do with it?
What are you gonna do with itthat's new and fresh and
exciting?
And and and can you bring theseother things together to try and
(14:51):
offer up something that that isless derivative than what a lot
of uh stuff that you can hearthat's heavily influenced by
very specific, uh massivelyworld famous bands, and you
can't help it, it's gonna seepin there because it's in your
DNA from your kid, it's gonnacome out somewhere.
But are are you are youself-aware enough and
(15:11):
self-critical enough to realisewhen something is derivative of
something else?
And can you then take that andblend it with something to try
and move it somewhere new?
So I think that's these newgenerations of artists that
you've got, and and I'm I'm I'malso hopeful that there's a
hopefully a bit of a resurgenceback towards musicianship and
and and and traditionalinstrumentation and all these
(15:32):
things as well, because I mean,fucking hell, how many times
have we been told over the yearsthat that the guitar music's
dead?
SPEAKER_04 (15:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
It's not and it never will be.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
Exactly, exactly.
You know, the the mainstream maysay that, you know, but but if
you look at all these bands, Imean, not just in the UK, but in
the States and just you know,around in Australia, New
Zealand, around the world.
I mean, I mean, like there'sthere's a band I I I really like
(16:04):
a lot from Cambodia, and they'reactually called uh the Cambodian
Space Project.
SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
Yeah, I think was it Jason Shaw in that band?
SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I believe, I believe he was, yeah.
That's obviously how I found outabout them, but uh you know the
fact that like you know theirtheir reach all the way out
there, and and again with JasonShaw and some of the bands he's
produced.
I I'm I'm friends with the thepeople from Frankie Teardrop
Dead and Yeah, dead, the reallynice people, the great people.
(16:34):
Uh Geography of the Moon aswell.
I've had them on my show, andthey're all like playing in
Cambodia right now.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Yeah, and and like it was there.
I saw Carling and Ben from uh aswell in Manchester.
You know, we hung out with thoseguys quite a few times, really,
really nice people.
So I'm glad to see they're overthere doing well and enjoying
it, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (16:56):
Exactly.
And and the thing that like I'msurprised, but also like really
impressed with is that like allthe way in that area of the
world, with everything that'shappened there, like you know,
from the past up till up tillnow, to see that like like
(17:16):
there's actually a hugelistenership for that type of
music in that area, like says tome, well, this doesn't this this
basically means that this musicis universal, you know, and like
if if a band like those bandscan play in that area of the
(17:37):
world and have shows have peoplecome, pay tickets, and just like
any other show in any other partof the country or world, you
know, there there's a market forit.
And I'm really like just proudthat like you know that type of
music and you know, music ingeneral, which you know has the
(18:00):
power to like produce memoriesand all sorts of different
feelings, you know, andinspirations and stuff can
reach, you know, that that partand just says it can reach, you
know, uh basically worldwide.
So I kind of consider like Iguess you could still there's a
(18:21):
lot of different like rockmovements going on right now
that the mainstream is paying noattention to, and it's all like
you know, Taylor Swift andBeyonce and Sabrina Carpenter
and you know all these people,and you know, like not to you
(18:42):
know diss that music oranything, but you know, a movie
from when I was in high schoolkind of explains that type of
music and you know, Josie andthe pussy cats.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know, anyone who is oryou know, around our age, uh,
you know, has seen that movie,they know exactly what I'm
(19:04):
talking about.
Um, and it's really funny if youthink about it, because what
that movie's plot line was isalmost exactly what's like going
on right now in the musicindustry.
It's one of those things wherelike movie, you know, art
imitates reality, and realityimitates art.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
It's one of the ironies of the way that music is
today is that it's never beeneasier to create and put music
out, but arguably never beenharder to be heard because such
is the volume of of music andand you know when you create
(19:46):
music or you are trying to uhcreate an art form that that
that that will connect withpeople and will touch in a
certain way.
And and certainly when we writesongs, I I in particular don't
really write songs that have uha particular meaning or
narrative as such.
I uh is it's much moreemotion-led.
So it's kind of what emotion arewe trying to communicate here?
(20:08):
What what what is the feelingthat we're trying to put into
someone right that's there thatwe're trying to say this is what
we do you get a but I I I Ithink one of the things that
that that's interesting aboutthat is that as I said, you
know, recording equipment'sbecome cheaper, you know.
We know uh and and obviouslylisten, the there's different
levels of that that you want tocreate that that that that
(20:30):
content and the quality of thatcontent to be in production
values but but yet uh youngergenerations of people, you know,
they're becoming more and moreused to listening to music
through phones and throughterrible speakers or little ear
pods or they're watching movieson phones.
So there's never been moreplatforms for you to use to try
and reach people, but such isthe volume of content and music
(20:54):
and art that's put in here andpushed out to these people
because you know as a as uh Itry to get people to listen to
your music, I try to be peopleto connect with any art form.
You're not just competing withother music or all music in
recording the history ofrecording music is available on
someone's someone's fingertips.
(21:14):
You're competing with everyother thing that person can do
in that moment.
I've watched the television,gone to Netflix, go for it's all
there all the time.
So as I said, it it means it itmight never have been easier for
people to create music and andand release music in a certain
way with you knowself-publishing all these
things, but arguably it mightnever have been harder to
(21:35):
actually be heard because thethe volume of stuff that comes
at people and and and now thesiloed way that the the the the
distribution uh through theseonline platforms uh gives people
more of what they're alreadydoing, uh stops people from
crossing over and being able toget into other things that maybe
they hadn't.
And and and and for me that'salways been part of what Helicon
(21:56):
and psychedelic music art isabout, uh is Blending and
blurring lines between genresand taking things and being more
experimental and being able topull things from other genres
and other art forms and blendthese in and bring them in a way
that sort of communicate thepsychedelic experience.
I think that I I think too oftenthat that that word psychedelic
(22:19):
and psychedelia is is is a kindof lazy catch-all term when
people don't quite know how tocategorize something.
Or you know, somebody hits afucking tremolo pedagogue,
dude-do-do need it, and all of asudden that's oh that's
psychedelic.
Oh, is it really?
Psychedelic music i it is aboutbreaking form.
It's not about you know it's Imean not obviously you get
(22:42):
psychedelic pop and stuff likethat, which which follows
certain narratives and thestructures, and there's certain
things that you need to put inthere that that that your
listener will will want and needto keep them hooked in.
But I think the more that youcan you can break those forms
and and and blend them withother things, the the the the
the greater chance you giveyourself of creating something
(23:03):
that's that's fresh, that'sdistinctive, and and that has
that word that I mentioned,Emily, that permanency that
isn't of a time that could belistened to and that's always
been the goal that someone wouldpick up your record in 30, 40,
or 50 years' time and it willsound as fresh and relevant to
them then as it did when you putit out, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (23:23):
Exactly.
I I I mean to to your point,Pink Floyd, you know, perfect
example.
Dark side of the moon.
I know it's big commercialalbum, but you have to look at
like why it's it's still soundlike it's it's timeless, you
know.
People uh 200 years from now,assuming we're all still here
(23:47):
and haven't blown each other tohell.
I would I wouldn't bet on it,right?
Um you know, assuming we're allstill here, and let's hope we're
like closer towards like youknow the Star Trek, you know,
future versus like the BladeRunner, yeah, you know, THX1138,
you know, future.
(24:08):
But assuming we're all here 200years later, people will still
be listening to Pink Floyd andDark Side of the Moon, Wish You
Were Here, Ethel, Animals, youknow, all the the classic stuff.
You know, I I wouldn't say Iwouldn't say so much like the
later Floyd, you know, but butdefin definitely like Sid
(24:32):
Barrett Floyd and the height ofFloyd in like the 70s, people
listen to the same thing withLed Zeppelin, the Beatles.
I mean, it's there's a re theRolling Stones, you know,
there's a reason why like thatmusic is still you know
relevant.
The same goes for like the thegrunge stuff, you know, and the
(24:53):
the 90s era, even the 80s, youknow, as much as I hated air
metal, I mean, I mean, listen tohow many of those songs are like
and movies and stuff.
And to to also like credit whatwe were just talking about with
the music industry, it's likethe same thing is going on with
the film industry.
(25:14):
And I actually want to say, youknow, because I I went to school
for screenwriting and you know,I'm I'm like involved with it
with interviewing people andstuff like that, and and writing
and stuff, but I would say thatlike it's almost well while it
is like you said, just as easyas it is to make music, it's
(25:36):
just as hard to get it outthere.
I'd say that that's true, butwith music versus film, at least
right now, it's a lot easier tomake music, and while you you
struggle just as equally tryingto get it out there, you still
have a better chance with musicversus film, especially with
(26:02):
with the mainstream.
Yeah, because I think it it Imean sure you have to like you
know put money into each albumand touring and merch and stuff
like that, but I feel like musicas a platform versus film, it's
a lot easier to you know get todo all that stuff and almost get
(26:28):
a return, not just you know,money-wise, but like
listenership-wise,follower-wise, stuff like that
versus film, because film isvery iffy, it's all about you
know money, and unfortunately,you know, from where we came in
(26:48):
the 70s, 80s, and 90s to wherewe are now, you know, it's all
about how can we make a returnversus you know the art form.
And most of Hollywood and thefilm industry in general around
the world has lost the idea thatfilm is an art form versus you
(27:14):
know a commercial, you know,bank return.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Absolutely.
And I think you know, you're ahundred percent correct uh in
that, and there are parallels inthe two as well.
And that the and and sadly, theprobably the more concerning
thing, uh not the moreconcerning thing, but you know,
as as we see this shift towardsfrom from major governments
(27:38):
around the world towards moreright-wing governments as as
they start to go as well, thatthis appreciation for the arts
is is undermined the furtherthat starts to swing.
And I again partly because uhthere are more tools and mediums
and platforms for people to donow, they start to say, well,
these things don't these thingsdo need funding.
(28:00):
Filmmakers need funding,musicians need funding, they
need government backing, theyneed to be able to it's you
know, you've talked about filmthere and we talked about music,
and I talked about you knowwhere they go with these albums
and how they get better andbetter and better as you go
through.
That's the development of craft.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
You can't develop craft in any art form if you're
not given the time and space todo it.
If you're yeah, if the only ifyou're having to go bust your
ass in a a 95 job or you youknow are working you know crazy
hours through the night, and allthese things are there, then you
don't get the time to sit downand put in those ten hundred ten
thousand, hundred thousand hoursthat everybody talks about, that
(28:37):
you've got to build this thingup and get it and understand and
and and get better at it andrefine it.
And then you you then have theshift towards these, you know,
visually that that the shortform content on YouTube where
everything's done in you knowfive minutes and ten minutes
snaps and and the attention spanof the next generation of
audiences get shorter andshorter and shorter, and their
willingness to to to move intoto experience anything new
(29:00):
becomes harder and harder andharder.
It's I think whil whilst whilstthere's so many green shoots of
positivity and and encouragementand and and and creativity that
you see going on, I'm genuinelyreally worried about the future
of arts for that because inmusic and film and television
and all these things that yousee as well, what they're
(29:20):
looking for is existing IP thatthey can then take and and draw
out and sell into as manycountries as quickly as they
possibly can.
Yes and translate that and andand bring that back.
And and even the way, you know,even things like classic comedy
shows, you're not gonna get thatanymore because now it's about
how can we package this thing upand distribute it into as many
(29:40):
territories that people comeback to time and time and time
and time again.
And I see the same that with uhand and music has been an
interesting model the way itstarted to shift, and you start
to see you know some of thosepop stars that you we talked
about earlier really gettingahead of the game and
understanding how how theinternet and how social media
and how streaming platformsworked and how they could they
(30:00):
could channel that to their ownadvantage.
But I I I also think those daysare kind of gone now as well.
I think that you had to you hadto be ahead of the game really
early.
If you have you're seeing thatbandwagon now, it's already too
late.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, these people are so farahead of it.
So yeah, I was like, when itgoes now, I don't know, but I'm
I'm genuinely worried about it.
SPEAKER_04 (30:21):
I I I completely agree.
The attention span thing is abig issue.
The fact of the matter is, like,you know, the Gen Z generation
has been like spoon-fed Marvelor DC or some sort of comic book
(30:41):
iteration for the last 10 plusyears.
And we're still we're stilldoing it.
The audience, you know, at thebox office has shown that like
it's starting to you definitelygo down with with comic book
stuff, which is why Hollywood'snext idea is like, well, we ran
(31:03):
up the comic book thing, youknow, now let's go to, like you
said, IP.
And there's so much, there's somuch IP, you know, that that you
could literally do like 10 to 20years of of you know IP stuff,
you know, and until that runsdry, but then what do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
You know, that by that time AI will have taken
over anyway.
And exactly there won't have anyneed for musicians or filmmakers
or anybody else at that point.
We'll all we'll all just besetting asleep.
SPEAKER_04 (31:35):
Right, right.
And if if it's like what Musksaid, you know, then AI has
already taken over uh mainstreammusic, you know.
So so literally people like youand all the bands we talked
about, you know, and and youknow, people who are you know
don't have that aren't alreadyfamous and and don't already
(32:00):
have like hundreds of thousandsof dollars, you know, and and uh
and a massive fan base from youknow what what they did prior or
or you know were backed by youknow whoever to to push them to
the front of the line.
I mean, that's literally howTaylor Swift, you know, became
(32:21):
Taylor Swift.
She was backed by you knowhundreds of thousands of
dollars, and she put it into youknow her first performance and
you know had all this moneyessentially to you know put it
on the streamers and pay for thefollowers, and now there's
there's the Swifties that I kindof relate to like people with uh
(32:44):
you know some sort of like cultfollowing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:53):
I know, I know, you know, you know, but but you know
that you know that's that'sthem.
I I I I think people like you,Ben, Carling, all the people,
Geography of the Moon, all thepeople that another band I want
to mention, Ghost Patterns, anduh friends of hers as well.
(33:15):
Yes, great, great band.
I've been trying, I want to getthem on the show as well as the
Lex Lex Lex's other band thatshe's with, Bug Eye, I believe,
is is the name.
Do I have that right?
I want to make sure.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
I'm not sure.
I know I know she left uh GhostPatterns not so long ago and and
Terry and the guys are stillgoing there, but yeah, I'm not
sure what a new band is.
SPEAKER_04 (33:35):
I think it's I think it's Bug Eye, if I something
like that.
I I I either way I want to getLex's new band on the show as
well as those patterns.
But you know, like you guys areI I want to say like really the
the the the last like rock androllers, you know, like like the
(33:58):
the the the doing you knowessentially what is described as
like punk doing what you can toget your music out there and you
know fight to get it out thereand you know do what you have to
do, you know, and until you canreach as many audiences, which
(34:19):
is part of why I feel it's likemy duty, and not from not
someone who listens tomainstream and is like, you
know, the Josie and thePussycats people, but actually
what Josie and the Pussycats wassupposed to be, you know, with
the initial start out with whatthey wanted you know in the plot
line for the movie.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
Well, I think that's it it can get frustrating, and
and and we all have times whenwe bang our heads against the
wall and we think it's thisworth continuing, man, as it
should be.
But then I I I think what youjust need to remind yourself is
why you started doing it in thefirst place.
Right.
And and if you start, you know,we didn't start Helicon until we
were our mid-30s, you know.
Like um it's the only band I'veever been in.
(35:00):
I wasn't a guy who was aroundbands my whole life.
Lots of our guys in our bandwere, you know.
Mike was in bands like theTrembling Bells, and uh Graham
was in a band who was doingreally, really well, figure five
back in the day, they were outtouring with Kula Shaker and all
these kind of people.
And Seb's been in loads of bandsover the years, and and and you
know, that they've um these guyshave have been at it from from
(35:22):
teenagers, whereas I came at itmuch, much, much later in life
when I brought it to.
So this has been my kind of mykind of pet project all up from
from day one.
Whereas you know, Mike andGraham and Seb, guitar players
and drummers and and and and akeys and sitar player, they've
they've been the kind of backingband and been part of bands like
Kaleidoscope, you you know,Peter Dolce's Kaleidoscope.
SPEAKER_03 (35:44):
Definitely, definitely great man.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
So those those guys played with have played as part
of that band, they've playedwith Twink.
As I mentioned, that you know,they've played with Credible
Strink Karen's Incredible StringBand.
So they've been in lots of bandsover the years and done these
things, and and it's been greatbecause that's the craft
development that I talk about,where you you're in different
places and you're spending thistime learning different styles,
learning different genres,learning different techniques,
(36:08):
learning from people who are whohave done it 30, 40 years and
more from you when it gets to.
But what it brings it back to isthat at times you're going,
okay, maybe we're not we're notgetting big enough fast enough
for you, and you start to getfrustrated with it.
But uh when that happens, Ithink the most important thing
you can do is remind yourselfwhy you started and and you
didn't start this for otherpeople.
(36:29):
You didn't start this to try andmake a buck, you didn't start
this to uh try and get famous ordo any of these things that you
you know, obviously people talkold pop stars and rock stars go,
you know, I wanted to be on thisshow, and I never had any of
that, but what you s what whatthe reason you started it and
the reason you did it was wasfor your own sanity and your own
(36:52):
self-expression and and and andthat compulsion that you had
something to get out of you andand and it it just so happens
that music would be the mediumthat you would choose uh to do
that because it's the one thatmatters to you most.
So when those frustrations come,I think it's important to remind
yourself of that and it groundsyou a little bit.
But what I think what it alsodoes is is is it reminds you to
(37:15):
the the the art form that you'recreating and whatever that is,
whether it's music or film, youhave to make it for yourself
first and foremost.
If if you chase an audience orif you if you if you I'm not
saying that you of course youhave to think about is is as you
craft a song where things willbe and what how would be um you
know let's give the audience abig lift at this moment here
(37:35):
where it starts to move andbring them back down and start
to and you think that way, butuh if if if you're making that
music or you're making your artform, be it be it film or
whatever it happens to be foranybody else, then to me you're
you're an authentic.
You are you are using it as avehicle for something else
rather than what it should be isbecause if it makes you feel
(37:56):
something and it's authentic andit's real and it is genuine
self-expression and you'remaking it for yourself and you
really feel it and you reallywork at it, it will connect with
someone else.
When you're setting out in amore cynical way to deliberately
try and do something to capturea particular audience or
demographic or people with it,then you know I I think real
people who care about real artcan smell that bullshit and I
(38:18):
love.
SPEAKER_04 (38:20):
Exactly.
There's there's actually I Ijust saw a quote, I forget who
said it, but it was someonemight have been like David Lynch
or like what one of the oldschool like filmmakers basically
said exactly so many words whatyou just said about film, and
(38:41):
that's why film is in trouble,like it is right now.
You know, the the audiences aredwindling, the attention span,
you know, like we talked aboutearlier, is is becoming shorter
and shorter to like that of likea ferret, literally.
And you know, like I noticed abig generational gap a few years
(39:03):
ago.
You know, I'm I'm 36, gonna be37 in April.
And one of my all-time favoritescience fiction films is Blade
Runner.
And I think Blade Runner to talkabout, you know, on the subject
of the music, this the score forthe film, alone with the the
(39:27):
special effects, how that moviewas made in I think 1982 that
came out, and you know, to tothat film still holds up.
Like sure there's there's somestuff that you know, like the
Atari stuff, you know, that'slike in the background, we we
know what happened to Atari now,but you know, like the the sets
(39:52):
and the visual effects and youknow the concept of like the
flying cars, and they actuallyjust like released the first
like official flying car forpurchase.
And if if you look at what themodel looks like, it's very uh
(40:13):
similar, you know, type of modelto um well we've got we've got
three there's three differentsynthesizers on here.
SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
There's a mug, there's a a cog, and there's a
there's a Selena string ensembleover there, and there's uh I
think there's an old there's awee rolling there as well.
And we spend a lot of time in2025, 2024, into 2025, still
trying to find the exact soundsthat were used in Blades Runner,
just searching out.
So there that's there, thatthat's the one, that's the one.
(40:42):
Um that's uh that that that's alifelong pursuit to find those
that you did those to right.
SPEAKER_04 (40:48):
But I mean, like our generation, like that's that's
one of our favorite films of alltime.
And then, like, if you look atkids that were like, I want to
say like mid-90s to Gen Z, theythey they can't sip through, you
know, the film, and it's boringto them, you know.
(41:09):
Not all Gen Zers and not all thegeneration that was born mid-90s
and you know, into Gen Z, butsure there's a bunch of them, a
good portion that has anappreciation for film and stuff
like that.
But it's like the same thing Inoticed when the first like Evil
Dead remake came out, andbasically the the first Jen who
(41:35):
grew up with like Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness,
and like were fans of BruceCampbell and Sam Raimi, you
know, before Sam Raimi went intolike you know, professional film
and Spider-Man and all thatstuff.
But like we were like, thismovie fucking sucks.
(41:59):
This is not Evil Dead, you know.
You know, me from a writer'sperspective, I could give you a
whole list of uh reasons whythat movie is terrible, besides
not being Evil Dead, which I Iwon't go into, but you know,
like it's the it's the samething, you know, like and and
(42:20):
the fact that Hollywood isliterally like you know,
rebooting and remaking and youknow, adding sequels, you know,
to stuff.
The only one that I am like, youknow, I was okay with was Blade
Runner 2049.
That's the only one that I waslike, yeah, you know, if they
(42:40):
could do special effects now,you know, that would be one
movie sequel that I was like, II could justify.
But like, I mean, more Halloweenstuff, you know.
I mean, Michael Myers would belike in his like 70s now, you
know, like Jason, you know, youknow, the Friday the 13th
(43:04):
franchise has the mostinconsistent timeline with all
the sequels, you know.
And if Jason was supposed to bea kid in like the 1950s, I I
mean, we know he's like a zombieat this point, you know, with
how they you know rebooted it,but I mean, even that, you know,
I mean he'd be so decrepit, youknow.
(43:25):
It would be like, I you know,even Freddie Kruger, it's like,
you know, we don't need moremore of the the have you have
have you seen the Nosferatureboot, the the recent one of
that?
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Have you watched that?
SPEAKER_04 (43:37):
I have not, and and I'll tell you exactly why I'm
not going to.
That movie, the trailer I saw islike shot for shot Francis Ford
Copa's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
SPEAKER_03 (43:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:52):
And I've heard I I made the mistake of like voicing
my opinion about the movie on onFacebook.
And you know, had to get into itwith a bunch of people, but
thank god there's like morepeople who think like me versus
the the the younger generationthat this movie is like oh my
(44:12):
god, it's so effing good.
You know, I'm like, dude, goback and watch Bram Stoker's
Dracula, it is better than thismovie, and I was for countless
reasons.
Gary Oldman was a way betterDracula and vampire than Bill
Skarsgord.
Not that I don't like BillSkarsgard, but you know, I I
(44:35):
think the original It miniserieswith Tim Curry was way better
than the It, you know, rebootmovies.
They made it more like FreddieKrueger instead of like what
Pennywise is supposed to be.
The Crow remake, I don't evenget me started on on how much
(44:56):
like that movie should just nothave even been made.
Should not exist.
And then the whole subject ofmusic, too.
You know, I because Iinterviewed uh the director of
the original Crow, who also didDark City and you know, a bunch,
bunch of other classic greatmovies, and we talked
specifically a lot about thecrow and the the music choices
(45:20):
that were used in the film, andmore specifically, why
Hollywood, no matter how muchthey try, can never recreate or
recapture the magic that thatwas you know in the crow.
It was a movie of the timesbecause all the music that was
(45:43):
in that movie and Trend Reznorfrom Nine Inch Nails worked with
the director to specificallyhandpick each band that was used
in the film.
And one of the on top of theshoe gaze and noise rock
medicine, I actually discoveredfrom that that movie, who I've
(46:03):
since been following.
I'm a big fan of, along withjust nine inch nails in general
and you know, all the othermusic that was in that movie.
I mean, it's just it's just likeyou can't, you cannot do that.
And it's more about also aboutjust respect for the dead.
You know, the fact that BrandonLee, you know, died tragically
(46:25):
before the film, you know, cameout and they had to finish it
with I actually just learnedthis.
The the the stunt actor whoplayed took over for the rest of
the shooting for the originalcrow that they uh you know
digitally uh imposed BrandonLee's face on for the rest of
the film after he you know sadlypassed.
(46:48):
Actually is the the guy who likewrote and directed is like
behind the John Wick franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Oh really?
SPEAKER_04 (46:57):
Yeah.
Um which I was like that that Ifound really interesting because
that would make a lot of sense,you know, with how his knowledge
of like weapons and you knowcombat and stuff like that,
which you can obviously seetranslates to all the John Wick
Wick movies.
(47:17):
I mean, the the second one,especially, how you know he's
he's you know getting all hisweapons, you know, to go do the
the hit thing, and the dude'sgiving like the full full
description of like every singleweapon, you know, that he has,
and like only someone who islike a stunned person, you know,
and familiar with like weaponsand stuff like that would have
(47:40):
the knowledge to like would getoff on that eye.
Exactly.
Exactly.
The only the only movie fromfrom what's his name, Rob Robert
Eggers, that that I like is TheNorthmen.
I'm gonna say that that one isreally good.
It's like a Viking epic, yeah,yeah.
Viking like action epic, and onThe Skarsgard, that's the oldest
(48:03):
one.
What's his name?
Alex Alexander Skarsgard is isthe star, and what's her name?
Tanya Taylor Thomas or whatever,the the the actress who he uses
in like most of his movies is inthat.
And that that one was reallygood because that was like
accurate, and actually, also onthe subject of music, Bjork has
(48:26):
has a role in it.
It's like a Viking spirit or youknow, goddess or something.
That that movie is worthwatching.
Just his other stuff.
I I kind of, you know, I'm a bighorror movie fan, especially
from like the old stuff fromlike, you know, the 70s and 80s,
and I guess the 90s istechnically old now.
(48:49):
But you know, I I see a lot ofdirectors and and new like
people that are big right now,that all I kind of see is, you
know, like like exactly what wewere talking about earlier with
like the wrong example of whatyou you brought up earlier.
We were talking about with likehow you know art imitates art,
(49:13):
you know, and and you takeinfluences from you know stuff
from the past and everything.
And you know, I'm also verylike, you know, picky with with
film and stuff, because like Iwould consider as much as I'm in
the music, I'm probably twice asmuch or three times as much in
(49:33):
the film.
And I just kind of see like thethe the people that are big
right now that are likedominating the charts,
especially with like Nosferatuand movies like Hereditary and
stuff like that.
Like, I just I I I see too muchof like stuff that was to me is
(49:57):
like not that old.
You know, I know you know the80s, you know, for some people
is over 40 years ago, you know,and fierce away from that
myself.
But you know, like, you know, II I was born in the late 80s,
grew up in the 90s, and got likethe best of you know both worlds
(50:22):
because everything that waslike, you know, 70s and 80s, you
know, was still like veryrelevant, you know, in the 90s.
And it wasn't until we got tolike the 2000s, more so into the
2010s and on, that we're like inthis era where you know, we feel
(50:45):
the need to like reboot thisthese popular franchises from
you know the like how manydecades prior.
I mean, I love Texas Chainsaw, Ilove Freddie, I love Jason, the
the only one that has beenconsistent with like staying in
the same, you know, canon orwhatever you want to call it is
(51:07):
is Chucky, you know, the child'splay stuff.
That's the only franchise fromthat would definitely be from
the 80s that is still, you know,in the same universe, you know,
and consistently making likegood stuff, even with the
series.
But I just see too much of like,you know, this was from that,
(51:31):
you know, this is clearly arip-off from this, this other
film, you know.
And you know, I like I knowespecially in film and in music
too, like you're supposed totake from your your influences
and make something new, but likethe mainstream stuff is like all
(51:53):
I see is is like no, like Isaid, no Sparatu just from
watching the trailer is like arip-off from Bram Stoker's
Dracula.
So much so that it's like I Idon't know how like Coppola
isn't suing Eggers for likeclearly ripping off, you know,
(52:13):
so many just shot for shotscenes from from his his
Dracula.
And I know people shit on KeanuReeves for you know having a
shitty, you know, br Britishaccent, but like look at the
dude now, you know.
You know, you know, and Ipersonally think Anthony Hopkins
(52:37):
was fantastic as Van House.
And I think Winoda Ryder is wasway hotter and a better actress
than Johnny Depp's daughter.
And I don't like that she's init because it just is like the
whole Nipo baby thing.
I mean, I get, you know, thatlike, you know, if you're in
(52:58):
Hollywood and and all that, Imean, obviously, you know, we've
had the the first generation oreven second generation with some
people, depending on like thefamily dynasties.
But yeah, I'm just like sick oflike the I guess would be the
the newest generation of likeNipo babies in Hollywood,
whereas just it's like justbecause like your mommy or daddy
(53:22):
is like so-and-so, you know,they automatically get like a
pass to to have you know careerin whatever it is, music,
Hollywood, acting, whatever.
And I I just don't think that'sthat's like fair to you know how
(53:42):
many other people want to becomeyou know actors because they
were fans of you know eithertheir parents or even you know
film is literally over a hundredyears old now.
There's so much of it that youknow you can be a fan of you
know this, this, and that personhas been dead for like 50 plus
(54:04):
years, you know, and say that'syour inspiration.
But you know, I I just you knowI have respect for basically the
the the celebrity parents thatsay you know to their kids, if
this is what you want to pursue,then you know, I'm gonna cut all
funding to you, and you have todo the do this on your own and
(54:28):
literally make it on your ownwith no help from you know me or
your mother or your uncle or youknow whoever is like you know
connected in Hollywood, you haveto do this on your own.
And if you fail, it's becauseyou're you're not good,
basically.
You know, but if you succeed,then that means you know you do
(54:51):
have what it takes, and youknow, you worked hard and you
understand what it what it'slike to struggle, you know, just
like we had to, you know, to toyou know, to get to where we are
now in our status in Hollywood.
That's that's what I think Ifeel, and a lot of other, you
(55:13):
know, people, not just inAmerica, but seeing how it's
happening all around the worldand in film right now, that's
just how I feel because that'show I was raised.
You know, I was raised, you haveto work hard.
You have if if you want tosucceed, you know, no one's
gonna help you.
You know, you have to basically,you know, do it on your own and
(55:34):
find the help, you know, withworking with people that you
know you did by you networkingand you connecting with those
people and you really having tostruggle and starve, you know,
to to you know, to get to whereyou want to be.
And that that's really theold-fashioned, you know, type of
(55:58):
thinking.
And I think we've gone away fromthat a lot, especially with like
the Gen Zers.
But and that that's like what wewere both saying before, very
worried about the future of notjust cinema, not just music, but
us as a society as a whole.
Um I think that's like a a biguh big concern, but didn't mean
(56:22):
to go on a on a philosophical,theological uh rant right there,
but I'm very I'm very passionateabout film and I'm very
opinionated also, but I think myopinionation and those opinions
are valid, and you know, anyreal like cinema goer or you
(56:45):
know, person who considers thema music aficionado, or whether
it's on rock or shoe gaze, rap,jazz, country, you know, or just
music in general, I think wouldwould agree with me on that.
That that's just my take.
(57:06):
What's up, all my fitches in theteam?
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(57:27):
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(57:52):
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Uh thanks again, y'all, and keeptuning in and let's all keep
swimming upstream.
Attention, all you fishes in the sea.
Come swim on in and check out myinterview with John Paul Hughes
from Glasgow's criticallyacclaimed shoe gate psychedelic
rock band Helicon, where we talkabout music, film, and his newly
released collaboration with OwlLover called A Rise.
Come swim on in and give it alisten.
(00:42):
John Paul Hughes on the fishbowl from Helicon.
Welcome.
SPEAKER_00 (00:48):
Thank you, thank you very much for having me.
SPEAKER_04 (00:50):
Absolutely.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to swim in the bowl with
me.
SPEAKER_00 (00:57):
Swamming a few bowls enough time, but it's a
completely different thing.
It can.
SPEAKER_04 (01:10):
A little foggy, a little haze, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
Why not, man?
SPEAKER_04 (01:14):
Especially listening to uh Helicon.
SPEAKER_00 (01:17):
So well, the I am talking to you right now from a
rehearsal space in uh justoutside Glasgow.
And uh the guys are due hereabout 6 30 tonight, um so a
couple hours time, but uh I'vegot a little smokey in here
later, let's say what we've sucha clear view by the time they
(01:38):
arrive.
SPEAKER_04 (01:39):
Right, right, right.
You know, I uh I had to use likethe the squeegee thing, you
know.
And my my next pun is I hope thetemperature is just right.
SPEAKER_00 (01:54):
Oh yeah, yeah.
Well, uh it's about minus six,minus seven degrees here in in
Glasgow just now, so that's beentemperature that's not right,
but we'll sort that later.
Don't worry about that.
That's so good, man.
SPEAKER_04 (02:05):
Exactly.
I gotta go out and shovel afterthis.
So that that's that's what it'slike here.
SPEAKER_01 (02:10):
Uh uh is it really?
SPEAKER_04 (02:11):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
We've the last uh like week hasbeen nothing but snowstorm, icy,
uh, you know, um basicallyfrozen under the bowl.
Yeah.
You know, I could do fish pondsall day.
I have endless ones, you know.
But we are here to talk aboutHelicon.
(02:33):
You know, I know we've beenfriends on Facebook for a while.
Um I've been an avid follower ofthe band for you know the past
couple years.
Love, love, love the last albumyou guys did, God Intentions.
The the live version.
I like I'm I'm I'm not surewhich album I like more, the
(02:54):
studio version or the liveversion.
Um love both of them.
I you know, I should probablysay equally, but you know,
you're you're one of the bandsthat I I wish at some point in
the future could make it to theStates to do it do a touring
gig, especially come toPittsburgh.
(03:15):
I could I could give you a listof venues that that would that
you guys could play at, but yourmusic and just everything is
like you're you're definitelyone of the bands that I am
envious of all the music that'scoming out of the not just like
the UK and Glasgow, but Europein general.
(03:36):
You know, in the States we haveyou know some good music, but
you know, it's all on theunderground.
And you know, there's like I'vejust noticed that I've been
following different areas of thecountry, you know, where there's
big music scenes and the the twowell, I guess it's technically a
(03:58):
continent, which is Australia,and I guess the country is the
other one is New Zealand.
But I I have seen so many justyou know, they keep popping up
with like not just like youknow, shoe gays and you know,
psychedelic stuff like that, butlike prog rock, you know,
(04:19):
classic rock vibes, like newpunk alternative, a band from
Australia that I'm a huge, hugefan of, but I really want to get
on the show.
Is I'm not sure if you rememberit, then they're called Full
Flower Moon Band.
No, really good, really, reallygood.
Iggy pop on his radio show thatI think is that's in like the
(04:42):
UK, right?
I I think so.
SPEAKER_02 (04:44):
Yep.
SPEAKER_04 (04:44):
He he featured some uh some of their music on on his
radio show.
Really awesome band.
And you know, I'm just like veryenvious of of the whole UK and
and Europe area, especiallyBerlin is another area that I've
seen a lot of great music comefrom recently with like uh blues
(05:06):
pills and the spiders, and justlike you know, another musician
from the UK that I'm a big fanof is Rosalie Cunningham, who
I'm supposed to eventually geton the show.
But her her latest album was youknow so effing good.
Another artist that's similar toRosalie is uh Bobby Dazzle, who
(05:29):
just released a uh debut albumthis this year, and it's it's
phenomenal as well.
SPEAKER_00 (05:35):
Um I really appreciate you saying that, man,
because I think that it's umobviously, you know, you watch
how you do on streaming servicesand you watch how you do and all
the and and it it's reallyinteresting.
Obviously, we know that that theharm that that that that can do
for for the industry and formusicians, but it's also you
know it's there, it's thereforever, and you're gonna have
(05:55):
to you're gonna have to play thegame whether you like it or not.
And and and to know that that'sreaching people like you, that's
getting to places likePittsburgh, it's getting all
across the States, it's gettinginto these other countries, it
really means a lot.
You know, it allows us to dothat, and and the fact that we
would love to get to the Statesone day.
I really appreciate you sayingthat about the record because it
was there was a lot of time andeffort went into that.
(06:18):
It felt like we had we hadachieved something we'd been
trying to achieve, maybe withthe previous records and and and
had built towards.
So to hear that feedback fromyou and and say that really
means a lot.
And actually, funnily enough, weare moving to a new booking
agent um very soon who is thesame booking agent for Rosalie
Cunningham.
SPEAKER_04 (06:39):
So awesome.
That's uh Cherry Cherry RedRecords.
SPEAKER_00 (06:43):
Uh it's it's it's an individual who we've been we've
been working with who worksthrough different uh through
different agencies.
Um so who knows?
We might we might get the thethe the dream lineup there one
day.
SPEAKER_04 (06:54):
Yeah, yeah.
Oh, what a show, what a show.
I mean, I mean with with Rosaliethe the the one in Bobby Dazzle,
I was promoting the the hell outof it.
Every time I saw it on Facebook,I shared, you know, shared,
shared, shared.
And the show where it was BobbyDazzle opening for Rosalie
(07:14):
Cunningham, like that that wouldhave been a show, was a show
that I was like so envious oflike the the the two power, you
know, female, you know, progrock, like the queen and and the
and the princess essentially,you know, performing.
SPEAKER_00 (07:34):
That would probably make us the gestals in their
coat then dancing around.
Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_04 (07:40):
You know, they they totally could have had, you
know, a gesture, you know, uhdressed up with the type of
music they make, you know.
Um, you know, it totally wouldhave worked, you know.
But that that was a show that Iwas just like, oh my god, you
know, and also like all thefestivals that happen, you know,
and in the UK and in you know,Europe in general.
(08:03):
Some of the ones that I've seenyou play, uh your band play,
Helicon, another dear friend ofmine who I'm sure you know,
Stanley Belton, the black marketkarma.
Um yeah, I've had he was likethe first shoe gaze kind of like
a band that I had on the show,and I am waiting to hear back
from him about getting him onfor a second interview, uh
(08:25):
especially with uh the new EP.
SPEAKER_00 (08:28):
Yeah, he's a really good guy.
In fact, um going back, I think,if I'm not mistaken, I think
Helicon's first ever gig waswith Black Market Karma.
Awesome.
The first time we ever played,it was someone who was in the
band at the time, I think, hadbeen kind of early Facebook
friends with Stan and werefollowing each other.
So Stan and I and my brotherGary have become good friends
(08:49):
over the years, and uh theytravelled all the way up from
London to East Co Bride, thelittle town that we are from,
just outside Glasgow to come andplay with as our first ever
show.
And it's it's been great nowthat we've crossed paths so many
times and we're now both on thesame label and uh and and kind
of seeing each other kind ofcome up through the levels, it's
been great because Stan's a goodguy, he's very, very committed,
(09:10):
you know.
He's the kind of driving forcebehind that that project, and
he's a a bit like Helicon, he'shad a lot of musicians come and
go within the band over theyears because as things start to
build and develop, you know, Ialways say Helicon feels a bit
more like a at times rather thana band, a bit more like a
collective of musicians becausewe just have to continually
(09:31):
evolve and move forward.
And sometimes, you know, as asas as bands get a little bit
more, as the demands become morefor touring and for recording,
it can be difficult as you know,none of us are teenagers
anymore.
Um so we all uh we we all uh weall have other demands on our
time.
So you can understand why somepeople maybe need to come away
(09:51):
from it, but Stan's been the oneconstant that that that's driven
that band, Black Market Karma,through to where they are now,
and and there's been a lot ofsimilarities as we've kind of
come through that alongside eachother, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (10:02):
Definitely, definitely.
I mean, one person who you cantell him this from me, and I'll
shoot him a message on Facebookas well, but Jason Shaw with
with Fuzz Club Records.
There there's I've learnedbasically of like the different
labels, you know, that that youknow make the type of music that
(10:23):
I love listening to.
And I like to consider myselflike a music aficionado, like
you know, I like all differentgenres of music, but if I had to
like you know center it on onegenre, I would definitely be
more of a rocker than you knowany other genre.
And with that, it's like I loveJimi Hendrix and and you know
(10:48):
the British invasion music withlike the Beatles and The Who and
Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, andthen the doors, and you know,
just all the the classic classicrock stuff, how that like you
know evolved, and you had likepunk, and punk was a huge scene,
(11:08):
especially in the UK and the US.
And then like you had like thethe grunge movement, which like
you know, I kind of considerlike the last, you know, actual
like universal musical movementthat that that we we had.
And you know, that was likeuniversally worldwide, not just
(11:34):
for grunge, but I mean, go intoyou know, one of the
fundamentals of what shoe gazehas become, obviously the dandy
warholes and the Brian Jonestownmassacre, along with like Ride,
which really want to interviewthose guys, you know, and then
like you know, the Jesus MaryChain, My Bloody Valentine, you
(11:57):
know, bands that help form, youknow, the what what shoe gaze
and dream pop and what that thatsound has like specifically
developed into today, you canreally attribute to like those
bands, and then even furtherback with classic rock, Lou
Reed, The Velvet Underground,and Pink Floyd as being big, you
(12:21):
know, major influences thatwould later, you know, become
what shoe gaze has kind ofturned into.
But you know, it's like my twofavorite genres, ironically,
because they contrast eachother, is is like shoe gaze
dream pop.
I can't get enough of it, andthe con contrastic, like you
(12:43):
know, like sabbathian metal,like yeah, like like the old
school, you know, Sabbath, likedoom metal, stoner metal, stoner
rock, like that that stuff I'mreally, really into.
The only type of metal that Ikind of have a big I can't
listen to is like ruble.
(13:05):
You know, but if if it's likemetal and and and the in the and
back to like Rosalie and BobbyDazzle, you know, hearing like
prog rock, well, you know, likelike you know, the amazing music
they they create, and hearinglike like again, blues pills and
like the spiders and just bandslike them.
(13:28):
And I'll even throw another oneout there bringing up the doors,
birth of joy.
Birth of joy is is like hearingthe doors, you know, literally
reincarnated.
Yeah, you know, so you know,hearing like bands that aren't
necessarily like prog rock andthey're not necessarily like,
you know, psychedelic or heavymetal, but they have the it's
(13:51):
like a it's kind of like youknow, a clockwork orange in a
sense, you know, like like thethe old is is is like you know
new again, you know, and it'sjust in society in general, it's
like literally living.
SPEAKER_00 (14:06):
Yeah, I think you say that the the old becomes the
new again.
It's it's it's you know nothingwill ever be entirely original,
but I I think the most importantthing that you can do if if
you're gonna have any level ofintegrity around the music,
you're trying to make you try tocreate something with a a level
of permanency that will lastthat that that is not part of a
(14:28):
uh a fleeting era or phase orbandwagon or anything like that
that's on it.
And and and and so you're alwaysgoing to draw from somewhere.
But I think what's mostimportant is is you know you can
take it from wherever you want,but where do you take it to?
What are you gonna do with it?
What are you gonna do with itthat's new and fresh and
exciting?
And and and can you bring theseother things together to try and
(14:51):
offer up something that that isless derivative than what a lot
of uh stuff that you can hearthat's heavily influenced by
very specific, uh massivelyworld famous bands, and you
can't help it, it's gonna seepin there because it's in your
DNA from your kid, it's gonnacome out somewhere.
But are are you are youself-aware enough and
(15:11):
self-critical enough to realisewhen something is derivative of
something else?
And can you then take that andblend it with something to try
and move it somewhere new?
So I think that's these newgenerations of artists that
you've got, and and I'm I'm I'malso hopeful that there's a
hopefully a bit of a resurgenceback towards musicianship and
and and and traditionalinstrumentation and all these
(15:32):
things as well, because I mean,fucking hell, how many times
have we been told over the yearsthat that the guitar music's
dead?
SPEAKER_04 (15:39):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (15:40):
It's not and it never will be.
SPEAKER_04 (15:42):
Exactly, exactly.
You know, the the mainstream maysay that, you know, but but if
you look at all these bands, Imean, not just in the UK, but in
the States and just you know,around in Australia, New
Zealand, around the world.
I mean, I mean, like there'sthere's a band I I I really like
(16:04):
a lot from Cambodia, and they'reactually called uh the Cambodian
Space Project.
SPEAKER_00 (16:10):
Yeah, I think was it Jason Shaw in that band?
SPEAKER_04 (16:14):
Yeah, yeah, I believe, I believe he was, yeah.
That's obviously how I found outabout them, but uh you know the
fact that like you know theirtheir reach all the way out
there, and and again with JasonShaw and some of the bands he's
produced.
I I'm I'm friends with the thepeople from Frankie Teardrop
Dead and Yeah, dead, the reallynice people, the great people.
(16:34):
Uh Geography of the Moon aswell.
I've had them on my show, andthey're all like playing in
Cambodia right now.
SPEAKER_00 (16:42):
Yeah, and and like it was there.
I saw Carling and Ben from uh aswell in Manchester.
You know, we hung out with thoseguys quite a few times, really,
really nice people.
So I'm glad to see they're overthere doing well and enjoying
it, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (16:56):
Exactly.
And and the thing that like I'msurprised, but also like really
impressed with is that like allthe way in that area of the
world, with everything that'shappened there, like you know,
from the past up till up tillnow, to see that like like
(17:16):
there's actually a hugelistenership for that type of
music in that area, like says tome, well, this doesn't this this
basically means that this musicis universal, you know, and like
if if a band like those bandscan play in that area of the
(17:37):
world and have shows have peoplecome, pay tickets, and just like
any other show in any other partof the country or world, you
know, there there's a market forit.
And I'm really like just proudthat like you know that type of
music and you know, music ingeneral, which you know has the
(18:00):
power to like produce memoriesand all sorts of different
feelings, you know, andinspirations and stuff can
reach, you know, that that partand just says it can reach, you
know, uh basically worldwide.
So I kind of consider like Iguess you could still there's a
(18:21):
lot of different like rockmovements going on right now
that the mainstream is paying noattention to, and it's all like
you know, Taylor Swift andBeyonce and Sabrina Carpenter
and you know all these people,and you know, like not to you
(18:42):
know diss that music oranything, but you know, a movie
from when I was in high schoolkind of explains that type of
music and you know, Josie andthe pussy cats.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, you know, anyone who is oryou know, around our age, uh,
you know, has seen that movie,they know exactly what I'm
(19:04):
talking about.
Um, and it's really funny if youthink about it, because what
that movie's plot line was isalmost exactly what's like going
on right now in the musicindustry.
It's one of those things wherelike movie, you know, art
imitates reality, and realityimitates art.
SPEAKER_00 (19:25):
It's one of the ironies of the way that music is
today is that it's never beeneasier to create and put music
out, but arguably never beenharder to be heard because such
is the volume of of music andand you know when you create
(19:46):
music or you are trying to uhcreate an art form that that
that that will connect withpeople and will touch in a
certain way.
And and certainly when we writesongs, I I in particular don't
really write songs that have uha particular meaning or
narrative as such.
I uh is it's much moreemotion-led.
So it's kind of what emotion arewe trying to communicate here?
(20:08):
What what what is the feelingthat we're trying to put into
someone right that's there thatwe're trying to say this is what
we do you get a but I I I Ithink one of the things that
that that's interesting aboutthat is that as I said, you
know, recording equipment'sbecome cheaper, you know.
We know uh and and obviouslylisten, the there's different
levels of that that you want tocreate that that that that
(20:30):
content and the quality of thatcontent to be in production
values but but yet uh youngergenerations of people, you know,
they're becoming more and moreused to listening to music
through phones and throughterrible speakers or little ear
pods or they're watching movieson phones.
So there's never been moreplatforms for you to use to try
and reach people, but such isthe volume of content and music
(20:54):
and art that's put in here andpushed out to these people
because you know as a as uh Itry to get people to listen to
your music, I try to be peopleto connect with any art form.
You're not just competing withother music or all music in
recording the history ofrecording music is available on
someone's someone's fingertips.
(21:14):
You're competing with everyother thing that person can do
in that moment.
I've watched the television,gone to Netflix, go for it's all
there all the time.
So as I said, it it means it itmight never have been easier for
people to create music and andand release music in a certain
way with you knowself-publishing all these
things, but arguably it mightnever have been harder to
(21:35):
actually be heard because thethe volume of stuff that comes
at people and and and now thesiloed way that the the the the
distribution uh through theseonline platforms uh gives people
more of what they're alreadydoing, uh stops people from
crossing over and being able toget into other things that maybe
they hadn't.
And and and and for me that'salways been part of what Helicon
(21:56):
and psychedelic music art isabout, uh is Blending and
blurring lines between genresand taking things and being more
experimental and being able topull things from other genres
and other art forms and blendthese in and bring them in a way
that sort of communicate thepsychedelic experience.
I think that I I think too oftenthat that that word psychedelic
(22:19):
and psychedelia is is is a kindof lazy catch-all term when
people don't quite know how tocategorize something.
Or you know, somebody hits afucking tremolo pedagogue,
dude-do-do need it, and all of asudden that's oh that's
psychedelic.
Oh, is it really?
Psychedelic music i it is aboutbreaking form.
It's not about you know it's Imean not obviously you get
(22:42):
psychedelic pop and stuff likethat, which which follows
certain narratives and thestructures, and there's certain
things that you need to put inthere that that that your
listener will will want and needto keep them hooked in.
But I think the more that youcan you can break those forms
and and and blend them withother things, the the the the
the greater chance you giveyourself of creating something
(23:03):
that's that's fresh, that'sdistinctive, and and that has
that word that I mentioned,Emily, that permanency that
isn't of a time that could belistened to and that's always
been the goal that someone wouldpick up your record in 30, 40,
or 50 years' time and it willsound as fresh and relevant to
them then as it did when you putit out, you know.
SPEAKER_04 (23:23):
Exactly.
I I I mean to to your point,Pink Floyd, you know, perfect
example.
Dark side of the moon.
I know it's big commercialalbum, but you have to look at
like why it's it's still soundlike it's it's timeless, you
know.
People uh 200 years from now,assuming we're all still here
(23:47):
and haven't blown each other tohell.
I would I wouldn't bet on it,right?
Um you know, assuming we're allstill here, and let's hope we're
like closer towards like youknow the Star Trek, you know,
future versus like the BladeRunner, yeah, you know, THX1138,
you know, future.
(24:08):
But assuming we're all here 200years later, people will still
be listening to Pink Floyd andDark Side of the Moon, Wish You
Were Here, Ethel, Animals, youknow, all the the classic stuff.
You know, I I wouldn't say Iwouldn't say so much like the
later Floyd, you know, but butdefin definitely like Sid
(24:32):
Barrett Floyd and the height ofFloyd in like the 70s, people
listen to the same thing withLed Zeppelin, the Beatles.
I mean, it's there's a re theRolling Stones, you know,
there's a reason why like thatmusic is still you know
relevant.
The same goes for like the thegrunge stuff, you know, and the
(24:53):
the 90s era, even the 80s, youknow, as much as I hated air
metal, I mean, I mean, listen tohow many of those songs are like
and movies and stuff.
And to to also like credit whatwe were just talking about with
the music industry, it's likethe same thing is going on with
the film industry.
(25:14):
And I actually want to say, youknow, because I I went to school
for screenwriting and you know,I'm I'm like involved with it
with interviewing people andstuff like that, and and writing
and stuff, but I would say thatlike it's almost well while it
is like you said, just as easyas it is to make music, it's
(25:36):
just as hard to get it outthere.
I'd say that that's true, butwith music versus film, at least
right now, it's a lot easier tomake music, and while you you
struggle just as equally tryingto get it out there, you still
have a better chance with musicversus film, especially with
(26:02):
with the mainstream.
Yeah, because I think it it Imean sure you have to like you
know put money into each albumand touring and merch and stuff
like that, but I feel like musicas a platform versus film, it's
a lot easier to you know get todo all that stuff and almost get
(26:28):
a return, not just you know,money-wise, but like
listenership-wise,follower-wise, stuff like that
versus film, because film isvery iffy, it's all about you
know money, and unfortunately,you know, from where we came in
(26:48):
the 70s, 80s, and 90s to wherewe are now, you know, it's all
about how can we make a returnversus you know the art form.
And most of Hollywood and thefilm industry in general around
the world has lost the idea thatfilm is an art form versus you
(27:14):
know a commercial, you know,bank return.
SPEAKER_00 (27:18):
Absolutely.
And I think you know, you're ahundred percent correct uh in
that, and there are parallels inthe two as well.
And that the and and sadly, theprobably the more concerning
thing, uh not the moreconcerning thing, but you know,
as as we see this shift towardsfrom from major governments
(27:38):
around the world towards moreright-wing governments as as
they start to go as well, thatthis appreciation for the arts
is is undermined the furtherthat starts to swing.
And I again partly because uhthere are more tools and mediums
and platforms for people to donow, they start to say, well,
these things don't these thingsdo need funding.
(28:00):
Filmmakers need funding,musicians need funding, they
need government backing, theyneed to be able to it's you
know, you've talked about filmthere and we talked about music,
and I talked about you knowwhere they go with these albums
and how they get better andbetter and better as you go
through.
That's the development of craft.
SPEAKER_01 (28:14):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (28:15):
You can't develop craft in any art form if you're
not given the time and space todo it.
If you're yeah, if the only ifyou're having to go bust your
ass in a a 95 job or you youknow are working you know crazy
hours through the night, and allthese things are there, then you
don't get the time to sit downand put in those ten hundred ten
thousand, hundred thousand hoursthat everybody talks about, that
(28:37):
you've got to build this thingup and get it and understand and
and and get better at it andrefine it.
And then you you then have theshift towards these, you know,
visually that that the shortform content on YouTube where
everything's done in you knowfive minutes and ten minutes
snaps and and the attention spanof the next generation of
audiences get shorter andshorter and shorter, and their
willingness to to to move intoto experience anything new
(29:00):
becomes harder and harder andharder.
It's I think whil whilst whilstthere's so many green shoots of
positivity and and encouragementand and and and creativity that
you see going on, I'm genuinelyreally worried about the future
of arts for that because inmusic and film and television
and all these things that yousee as well, what they're
(29:20):
looking for is existing IP thatthey can then take and and draw
out and sell into as manycountries as quickly as they
possibly can.
Yes and translate that and andand bring that back.
And and even the way, you know,even things like classic comedy
shows, you're not gonna get thatanymore because now it's about
how can we package this thing upand distribute it into as many
(29:40):
territories that people comeback to time and time and time
and time again.
And I see the same that with uhand and music has been an
interesting model the way itstarted to shift, and you start
to see you know some of thosepop stars that you we talked
about earlier really gettingahead of the game and
understanding how how theinternet and how social media
and how streaming platformsworked and how they could they
(30:00):
could channel that to their ownadvantage.
But I I I also think those daysare kind of gone now as well.
I think that you had to you hadto be ahead of the game really
early.
If you have you're seeing thatbandwagon now, it's already too
late.
You know what I mean?
Yeah, these people are so farahead of it.
So yeah, I was like, when itgoes now, I don't know, but I'm
I'm genuinely worried about it.
SPEAKER_04 (30:21):
I I I completely agree.
The attention span thing is abig issue.
The fact of the matter is, like,you know, the Gen Z generation
has been like spoon-fed Marvelor DC or some sort of comic book
(30:41):
iteration for the last 10 plusyears.
And we're still we're stilldoing it.
The audience, you know, at thebox office has shown that like
it's starting to you definitelygo down with with comic book
stuff, which is why Hollywood'snext idea is like, well, we ran
(31:03):
up the comic book thing, youknow, now let's go to, like you
said, IP.
And there's so much, there's somuch IP, you know, that that you
could literally do like 10 to 20years of of you know IP stuff,
you know, and until that runsdry, but then what do you do?
SPEAKER_00 (31:25):
You know, that by that time AI will have taken
over anyway.
And exactly there won't have anyneed for musicians or filmmakers
or anybody else at that point.
We'll all we'll all just besetting asleep.
SPEAKER_04 (31:35):
Right, right.
And if if it's like what Musksaid, you know, then AI has
already taken over uh mainstreammusic, you know.
So so literally people like youand all the bands we talked
about, you know, and and youknow, people who are you know
don't have that aren't alreadyfamous and and don't already
(32:00):
have like hundreds of thousandsof dollars, you know, and and uh
and a massive fan base from youknow what what they did prior or
or you know were backed by youknow whoever to to push them to
the front of the line.
I mean, that's literally howTaylor Swift, you know, became
(32:21):
Taylor Swift.
She was backed by you knowhundreds of thousands of
dollars, and she put it into youknow her first performance and
you know had all this moneyessentially to you know put it
on the streamers and pay for thefollowers, and now there's
there's the Swifties that I kindof relate to like people with uh
(32:44):
you know some sort of like cultfollowing.
SPEAKER_00 (32:49):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (32:53):
I know, I know, you know, you know, but but you know
that you know that's that'sthem.
I I I I think people like you,Ben, Carling, all the people,
Geography of the Moon, all thepeople that another band I want
to mention, Ghost Patterns, anduh friends of hers as well.
(33:15):
Yes, great, great band.
I've been trying, I want to getthem on the show as well as the
Lex Lex Lex's other band thatshe's with, Bug Eye, I believe,
is is the name.
Do I have that right?
I want to make sure.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
I'm not sure.
I know I know she left uh GhostPatterns not so long ago and and
Terry and the guys are stillgoing there, but yeah, I'm not
sure what a new band is.
SPEAKER_04 (33:35):
I think it's I think it's Bug Eye, if I something
like that.
I I I either way I want to getLex's new band on the show as
well as those patterns.
But you know, like you guys areI I want to say like really the
the the the last like rock androllers, you know, like like the
(33:58):
the the the doing you knowessentially what is described as
like punk doing what you can toget your music out there and you
know fight to get it out thereand you know do what you have to
do, you know, and until you canreach as many audiences, which
(34:19):
is part of why I feel it's likemy duty, and not from not
someone who listens tomainstream and is like, you
know, the Josie and thePussycats people, but actually
what Josie and the Pussycats wassupposed to be, you know, with
the initial start out with whatthey wanted you know in the plot
line for the movie.
SPEAKER_00 (34:38):
Well, I think that's it it can get frustrating, and
and and we all have times whenwe bang our heads against the
wall and we think it's thisworth continuing, man, as it
should be.
But then I I I think what youjust need to remind yourself is
why you started doing it in thefirst place.
Right.
And and if you start, you know,we didn't start Helicon until we
were our mid-30s, you know.
Like um it's the only band I'veever been in.
(35:00):
I wasn't a guy who was aroundbands my whole life.
Lots of our guys in our bandwere, you know.
Mike was in bands like theTrembling Bells, and uh Graham
was in a band who was doingreally, really well, figure five
back in the day, they were outtouring with Kula Shaker and all
these kind of people.
And Seb's been in loads of bandsover the years, and and and you
know, that they've um these guyshave have been at it from from
(35:22):
teenagers, whereas I came at itmuch, much, much later in life
when I brought it to.
So this has been my kind of mykind of pet project all up from
from day one.
Whereas you know, Mike andGraham and Seb, guitar players
and drummers and and and and akeys and sitar player, they've
they've been the kind of backingband and been part of bands like
Kaleidoscope, you you know,Peter Dolce's Kaleidoscope.
SPEAKER_03 (35:44):
Definitely, definitely great man.
SPEAKER_00 (35:46):
So those those guys played with have played as part
of that band, they've playedwith Twink.
As I mentioned, that you know,they've played with Credible
Strink Karen's Incredible StringBand.
So they've been in lots of bandsover the years and done these
things, and and it's been greatbecause that's the craft
development that I talk about,where you you're in different
places and you're spending thistime learning different styles,
learning different genres,learning different techniques,
(36:08):
learning from people who are whohave done it 30, 40 years and
more from you when it gets to.
But what it brings it back to isthat at times you're going,
okay, maybe we're not we're notgetting big enough fast enough
for you, and you start to getfrustrated with it.
But uh when that happens, Ithink the most important thing
you can do is remind yourselfwhy you started and and you
didn't start this for otherpeople.
(36:29):
You didn't start this to try andmake a buck, you didn't start
this to uh try and get famous ordo any of these things that you
you know, obviously people talkold pop stars and rock stars go,
you know, I wanted to be on thisshow, and I never had any of
that, but what you s what whatthe reason you started it and
the reason you did it was wasfor your own sanity and your own
(36:52):
self-expression and and and andthat compulsion that you had
something to get out of you andand and it it just so happens
that music would be the mediumthat you would choose uh to do
that because it's the one thatmatters to you most.
So when those frustrations come,I think it's important to remind
yourself of that and it groundsyou a little bit.
But what I think what it alsodoes is is is it reminds you to
(37:15):
the the the art form that you'recreating and whatever that is,
whether it's music or film, youhave to make it for yourself
first and foremost.
If if you chase an audience orif you if you if you I'm not
saying that you of course youhave to think about is is as you
craft a song where things willbe and what how would be um you
know let's give the audience abig lift at this moment here
(37:35):
where it starts to move andbring them back down and start
to and you think that way, butuh if if if you're making that
music or you're making your artform, be it be it film or
whatever it happens to be foranybody else, then to me you're
you're an authentic.
You are you are using it as avehicle for something else
rather than what it should be isbecause if it makes you feel
(37:56):
something and it's authentic andit's real and it is genuine
self-expression and you'remaking it for yourself and you
really feel it and you reallywork at it, it will connect with
someone else.
When you're setting out in amore cynical way to deliberately
try and do something to capturea particular audience or
demographic or people with it,then you know I I think real
people who care about real artcan smell that bullshit and I
(38:18):
love.
SPEAKER_04 (38:20):
Exactly.
There's there's actually I Ijust saw a quote, I forget who
said it, but it was someonemight have been like David Lynch
or like what one of the oldschool like filmmakers basically
said exactly so many words whatyou just said about film, and
(38:41):
that's why film is in trouble,like it is right now.
You know, the the audiences aredwindling, the attention span,
you know, like we talked aboutearlier, is is becoming shorter
and shorter to like that of likea ferret, literally.
And you know, like I noticed abig generational gap a few years
(39:03):
ago.
You know, I'm I'm 36, gonna be37 in April.
And one of my all-time favoritescience fiction films is Blade
Runner.
And I think Blade Runner to talkabout, you know, on the subject
of the music, this the score forthe film, alone with the the
(39:27):
special effects, how that moviewas made in I think 1982 that
came out, and you know, to tothat film still holds up.
Like sure there's there's somestuff that you know, like the
Atari stuff, you know, that'slike in the background, we we
know what happened to Atari now,but you know, like the the sets
(39:52):
and the visual effects and youknow the concept of like the
flying cars, and they actuallyjust like released the first
like official flying car forpurchase.
And if if you look at what themodel looks like, it's very uh
(40:13):
similar, you know, type of modelto um well we've got we've got
three there's three differentsynthesizers on here.
SPEAKER_00 (40:20):
There's a mug, there's a a cog, and there's a
there's a Selena string ensembleover there, and there's uh I
think there's an old there's awee rolling there as well.
And we spend a lot of time in2025, 2024, into 2025, still
trying to find the exact soundsthat were used in Blades Runner,
just searching out.
So there that's there, thatthat's the one, that's the one.
(40:42):
Um that's uh that that that's alifelong pursuit to find those
that you did those to right.
SPEAKER_04 (40:48):
But I mean, like our generation, like that's that's
one of our favorite films of alltime.
And then, like, if you look atkids that were like, I want to
say like mid-90s to Gen Z, theythey they can't sip through, you
know, the film, and it's boringto them, you know.
(41:09):
Not all Gen Zers and not all thegeneration that was born mid-90s
and you know, into Gen Z, butsure there's a bunch of them, a
good portion that has anappreciation for film and stuff
like that.
But it's like the same thing Inoticed when the first like Evil
Dead remake came out, andbasically the the first Jen who
(41:35):
grew up with like Evil Dead,Evil Dead 2, Army of Darkness,
and like were fans of BruceCampbell and Sam Raimi, you
know, before Sam Raimi went intolike you know, professional film
and Spider-Man and all thatstuff.
But like we were like, thismovie fucking sucks.
(41:59):
This is not Evil Dead, you know.
You know, me from a writer'sperspective, I could give you a
whole list of uh reasons whythat movie is terrible, besides
not being Evil Dead, which I Iwon't go into, but you know,
like it's the it's the samething, you know, like and and
(42:20):
the fact that Hollywood isliterally like you know,
rebooting and remaking and youknow, adding sequels, you know,
to stuff.
The only one that I am like, youknow, I was okay with was Blade
Runner 2049.
That's the only one that I waslike, yeah, you know, if they
(42:40):
could do special effects now,you know, that would be one
movie sequel that I was like, II could justify.
But like, I mean, more Halloweenstuff, you know.
I mean, Michael Myers would belike in his like 70s now, you
know, like Jason, you know, youknow, the Friday the 13th
(43:04):
franchise has the mostinconsistent timeline with all
the sequels, you know.
And if Jason was supposed to bea kid in like the 1950s, I I
mean, we know he's like a zombieat this point, you know, with
how they you know rebooted it,but I mean, even that, you know,
I mean he'd be so decrepit, youknow.
(43:25):
It would be like, I you know,even Freddie Kruger, it's like,
you know, we don't need moremore of the the have you have
have you seen the Nosferatureboot, the the recent one of
that?
SPEAKER_00 (43:36):
Have you watched that?
SPEAKER_04 (43:37):
I have not, and and I'll tell you exactly why I'm
not going to.
That movie, the trailer I saw islike shot for shot Francis Ford
Copa's Bram Stoker's Dracula.
SPEAKER_03 (43:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (43:52):
And I've heard I I made the mistake of like voicing
my opinion about the movie on onFacebook.
And you know, had to get into itwith a bunch of people, but
thank god there's like morepeople who think like me versus
the the the younger generationthat this movie is like oh my
(44:12):
god, it's so effing good.
You know, I'm like, dude, goback and watch Bram Stoker's
Dracula, it is better than thismovie, and I was for countless
reasons.
Gary Oldman was a way betterDracula and vampire than Bill
Skarsgord.
Not that I don't like BillSkarsgard, but you know, I I
(44:35):
think the original It miniserieswith Tim Curry was way better
than the It, you know, rebootmovies.
They made it more like FreddieKrueger instead of like what
Pennywise is supposed to be.
The Crow remake, I don't evenget me started on on how much
(44:56):
like that movie should just nothave even been made.
Should not exist.
And then the whole subject ofmusic, too.
You know, I because Iinterviewed uh the director of
the original Crow, who also didDark City and you know, a bunch,
bunch of other classic greatmovies, and we talked
specifically a lot about thecrow and the the music choices
(45:20):
that were used in the film, andmore specifically, why
Hollywood, no matter how muchthey try, can never recreate or
recapture the magic that thatwas you know in the crow.
It was a movie of the timesbecause all the music that was
(45:43):
in that movie and Trend Reznorfrom Nine Inch Nails worked with
the director to specificallyhandpick each band that was used
in the film.
And one of the on top of theshoe gaze and noise rock
medicine, I actually discoveredfrom that that movie, who I've
(46:03):
since been following.
I'm a big fan of, along withjust nine inch nails in general
and you know, all the othermusic that was in that movie.
I mean, it's just it's just likeyou can't, you cannot do that.
And it's more about also aboutjust respect for the dead.
You know, the fact that BrandonLee, you know, died tragically
(46:25):
before the film, you know, cameout and they had to finish it
with I actually just learnedthis.
The the the stunt actor whoplayed took over for the rest of
the shooting for the originalcrow that they uh you know
digitally uh imposed BrandonLee's face on for the rest of
the film after he you know sadlypassed.
(46:48):
Actually is the the guy who likewrote and directed is like
behind the John Wick franchise.
SPEAKER_00 (46:56):
Oh really?
SPEAKER_04 (46:57):
Yeah.
Um which I was like that that Ifound really interesting because
that would make a lot of sense,you know, with how his knowledge
of like weapons and you knowcombat and stuff like that,
which you can obviously seetranslates to all the John Wick
Wick movies.
(47:17):
I mean, the the second one,especially, how you know he's
he's you know getting all hisweapons, you know, to go do the
the hit thing, and the dude'sgiving like the full full
description of like every singleweapon, you know, that he has,
and like only someone who islike a stunned person, you know,
and familiar with like weaponsand stuff like that would have
(47:40):
the knowledge to like would getoff on that eye.
Exactly.
Exactly.
The only the only movie fromfrom what's his name, Rob Robert
Eggers, that that I like is TheNorthmen.
I'm gonna say that that one isreally good.
It's like a Viking epic, yeah,yeah.
Viking like action epic, and onThe Skarsgard, that's the oldest
(48:03):
one.
What's his name?
Alex Alexander Skarsgard is isthe star, and what's her name?
Tanya Taylor Thomas or whatever,the the the actress who he uses
in like most of his movies is inthat.
And that that one was reallygood because that was like
accurate, and actually, also onthe subject of music, Bjork has
(48:26):
has a role in it.
It's like a Viking spirit or youknow, goddess or something.
That that movie is worthwatching.
Just his other stuff.
I I kind of, you know, I'm a bighorror movie fan, especially
from like the old stuff fromlike, you know, the 70s and 80s,
and I guess the 90s istechnically old now.
(48:49):
But you know, I I see a lot ofdirectors and and new like
people that are big right now,that all I kind of see is, you
know, like like exactly what wewere talking about earlier with
like the wrong example of whatyou you brought up earlier.
We were talking about with likehow you know art imitates art,
(49:13):
you know, and and you takeinfluences from you know stuff
from the past and everything.
And you know, I'm also verylike, you know, picky with with
film and stuff, because like Iwould consider as much as I'm in
the music, I'm probably twice asmuch or three times as much in
(49:33):
the film.
And I just kind of see like thethe the people that are big
right now that are likedominating the charts,
especially with like Nosferatuand movies like Hereditary and
stuff like that.
Like, I just I I I see too muchof like stuff that was to me is
(49:57):
like not that old.
You know, I know you know the80s, you know, for some people
is over 40 years ago, you know,and fierce away from that
myself.
But you know, like, you know, II I was born in the late 80s,
grew up in the 90s, and got likethe best of you know both worlds
(50:22):
because everything that waslike, you know, 70s and 80s, you
know, was still like veryrelevant, you know, in the 90s.
And it wasn't until we got tolike the 2000s, more so into the
2010s and on, that we're like inthis era where you know, we feel
(50:45):
the need to like reboot thisthese popular franchises from
you know the like how manydecades prior.
I mean, I love Texas Chainsaw, Ilove Freddie, I love Jason, the
the only one that has beenconsistent with like staying in
the same, you know, canon orwhatever you want to call it is
(51:07):
is Chucky, you know, the child'splay stuff.
That's the only franchise fromthat would definitely be from
the 80s that is still, you know,in the same universe, you know,
and consistently making likegood stuff, even with the
series.
But I just see too much of like,you know, this was from that,
(51:31):
you know, this is clearly arip-off from this, this other
film, you know.
And you know, I like I knowespecially in film and in music
too, like you're supposed totake from your your influences
and make something new, but likethe mainstream stuff is like all
(51:53):
I see is is like no, like Isaid, no Sparatu just from
watching the trailer is like arip-off from Bram Stoker's
Dracula.
So much so that it's like I Idon't know how like Coppola
isn't suing Eggers for likeclearly ripping off, you know,
(52:13):
so many just shot for shotscenes from from his his
Dracula.
And I know people shit on KeanuReeves for you know having a
shitty, you know, br Britishaccent, but like look at the
dude now, you know.
You know, you know, and Ipersonally think Anthony Hopkins
(52:37):
was fantastic as Van House.
And I think Winoda Ryder is wasway hotter and a better actress
than Johnny Depp's daughter.
And I don't like that she's init because it just is like the
whole Nipo baby thing.
I mean, I get, you know, thatlike, you know, if you're in
(52:58):
Hollywood and and all that, Imean, obviously, you know, we've
had the the first generation oreven second generation with some
people, depending on like thefamily dynasties.
But yeah, I'm just like sick oflike the I guess would be the
the newest generation of likeNipo babies in Hollywood,
whereas just it's like justbecause like your mommy or daddy
(53:22):
is like so-and-so, you know,they automatically get like a
pass to to have you know careerin whatever it is, music,
Hollywood, acting, whatever.
And I I just don't think that'sthat's like fair to you know how
(53:42):
many other people want to becomeyou know actors because they
were fans of you know eithertheir parents or even you know
film is literally over a hundredyears old now.
There's so much of it that youknow you can be a fan of you
know this, this, and that personhas been dead for like 50 plus
(54:04):
years, you know, and say that'syour inspiration.
But you know, I I just you knowI have respect for basically the
the the celebrity parents thatsay you know to their kids, if
this is what you want to pursue,then you know, I'm gonna cut all
funding to you, and you have todo the do this on your own and
(54:28):
literally make it on your ownwith no help from you know me or
your mother or your uncle or youknow whoever is like you know
connected in Hollywood, you haveto do this on your own.
And if you fail, it's becauseyou're you're not good,
basically.
You know, but if you succeed,then that means you know you do
(54:51):
have what it takes, and youknow, you worked hard and you
understand what it what it'slike to struggle, you know, just
like we had to, you know, to toyou know, to get to where we are
now in our status in Hollywood.
That's that's what I think Ifeel, and a lot of other, you
(55:13):
know, people, not just inAmerica, but seeing how it's
happening all around the worldand in film right now, that's
just how I feel because that'show I was raised.
You know, I was raised, you haveto work hard.
You have if if you want tosucceed, you know, no one's
gonna help you.
You know, you have to basically,you know, do it on your own and
(55:34):
find the help, you know, withworking with people that you
know you did by you networkingand you connecting with those
people and you really having tostruggle and starve, you know,
to to you know, to get to whereyou want to be.
And that that's really theold-fashioned, you know, type of
(55:58):
thinking.
And I think we've gone away fromthat a lot, especially with like
the Gen Zers.
But and that that's like what wewere both saying before, very
worried about the future of notjust cinema, not just music, but
us as a society as a whole.
Um I think that's like a a biguh big concern, but didn't mean
(56:22):
to go on a on a philosophical,theological uh rant right there,
but I'm very I'm very passionateabout film and I'm very
opinionated also, but I think myopinionation and those opinions
are valid, and you know, anyreal like cinema goer or you
(56:45):
know, person who considers thema music aficionado, or whether
it's on rock or shoe gaze, rap,jazz, country, you know, or just
music in general, I think wouldwould agree with me on that.
That that's just my take.
(57:06):
What's up, all my fitches in theteam?
Thanks again for tuning in andfor being a subscriber.
Your continued support means alot.
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(57:27):
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(57:52):
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