February 14, 2026 • 50 mins
The shine of a big break doesn’t always light the path ahead. We sit down with character actor Robert LaSardo to explore what success really feels like when the cheers fade and the measuring starts—how to wear your colors after a loss, why loyalty outlasts gossip, and what it takes to keep your spirit intact inside a machine that rewards visibility while testing your soul.
Robert brings us into the surreal joy of working on The Mule with Clint Eastwood—from a simple self-tape to notes, a greenlight, and then the quiet shock of meeting a legend who leads without ego. He shares how Eastwood “plays jazz” on set, trusts improvisation, and eats with his crew like family. That humility becomes a masterclass in creative leadership: protect the work, respect people, and let honesty breathe. We also touch on a tender moment with Andy Garcia that affirms how old-school respect still matters and how being seen can reset your day.
From there, the conversation tackles film literacy, lowered standards, and the seduction of spectacle. Robert contrasts meaningful storytelling with the numbing effect of relentless visual stimulation and weightless violence. He champions writing what you know, building teams around authenticity, and using craft to entertain without dumbing down. We thread Scorsese’s evolving style, Woody Allen’s neurotic wit, and the enduring power of films like The Poseidon Adventure, American Graffiti, and The Exorcist—stories that last because they carry consequence, atmosphere, and soul.
Robert closes with American Trash, his new film in post-production: a raw, compassionate portrait of PTSD, apathy, and environmental care set in Los Angeles. It’s a 1960s spirit reimagined for right now, asking us to look at the ground under our feet and the people beside us, then choose community over indifference. If you care about acting, directing, or simply watching better movies, this conversation is a compass—equal parts grit, gratitude, and guidance.
Enjoyed the episode? Subscribe, share it with a film‑lover, and leave a quick review to help more curious listeners find the show.
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SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Attention, all you fishes in the sea.
Thanks for tuning in.
I'm your host, Sam Fish.
Today we'll be wrapping up ourconversation from last week with
character actor Robert Lozardo.
You want to get hooked on thisone and keep a keen ear because
this is going to be a greatcontinuing conversation.
As always, please remember tolike, share, and subscribe.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
But you know, you brought up Waterworld, and I I
think it was very it was it wassomething else, man, to be
walking around Hollywood where Ilived at the time wearing a
shirt that was given to me by aproduction that said Waterworld
on it.
And I remember one of my friendspointing out, saying to me, in
not such a kind way, aren't youa little embarrassed to be
(00:46):
walking around with that shirton?
But like, no.
Why'd I be embarrassed?
He goes, Well, that was a thatwas a you know industry flop and
all this, like once again, themathematics of it.
The point is that I didn't care,man.
I've never cared about thejudgments of men, of men, of
people who uh feel that it's uhsome kind there's some kind of
(01:10):
insight into pointing things outlike that.
I looked at it like this.
I said, Well, I went to Hawaii,I was on the island of Kona, I
got to meet Kevin Costner.
He was very nice to me.
Kevin Reynolds hired me.
I got paid a a really decentsalary and I had fun.
You know, all this other stuffthat you guys are involved in
(01:30):
has nothing to do with me, man.
Can I go now?
I'm just celebrating.
I'm like, I'm not one of thesepeople, like if I'm in a club
riding a motorcycle, you know,and I got a 1% patch on my back,
and we took a beating yesterdayby a rival club, I'm not gonna
take my patch off and put on adifferent color because we got
our asses kicked.
I'm gonna wear my colors andmaybe next fight we'll win.
(01:52):
I'm gonna stay loyal to thecause because the cause was
loyal to me.
So I'm not gonna talk crap aboutthe people that hired me and
gave me an opportunity.
You know, I went from drop zoneto to Waterworld, man.
So from where I was sitting, aman who needed to make a living
to pay his rent and hold creditcard debt and et cetera, it was
(02:15):
an opportunity to do the thing Iwould I was falling in love
with, to work with great people,to make money, and enjoy it.
And anybody that had somethingto say contrary to that, I was
suspicious of.
And, you know, and that's whatled me to be kind of isolated in
Hollywood over time when Istarted to realize that the
success that I was, I guess,enjoying did not bring a better
(02:38):
class of friend necessarily.
It brought a better class ofenemy in the sense that it
provoked envy in people.
And it can be very lonely inthat sense when all you're
simply trying to do is fulfillthe work order and your
obligation as an artist, becausepeople throughout your life, the
positive ones, have reminded younot to lose sight of your goal,
(02:58):
to be positive, and to stand upin your life and face life with
courage and you know, and andand embrace your vocation with
respect, with humility anddignity.
And you look around and you seeuh, I don't know, this kind of
like Roman Colosseum kind ofbarbarism around you uh in terms
(03:20):
of the psychic collective ofartists who are so ravaged by
their own insecurities orstarving for opportunity that it
makes them go mad.
And I don't think it was any oftheir fault.
Like I don't blame people, notangry with people.
I feel sad.
I've watched generations andgenerations because you know
(03:40):
I've been doing this for alittle while, come and go,
cycling in and out of Hollywood.
And people, I've seen people gocrazy, I've seen people succumb
to drug addiction, I've seenpeople die, I've seen people
lose their minds, and they, youknow, they they run home with
their, you know, to like Dorothyfrom uh but a not so much of a
glamorous version of the Wizardof Oz.
(04:01):
They came to realize what waswaiting for them at the end of
the the end of the yellow brickroad was their own death, you
know, or insanity.
And so a lot I saw a lot ofunreal, unrealized or achieved
dreams and the the the breakingof the mental compass in
people's psyche, which turnedthem into this zombified, almost
(04:23):
an aggressive, yeah, aggressivetypes that were not very kind in
their observations.
So you just learn to be veryselective in who you spend time
with because you could based onsociety's observation of
winning, you know, you're makingmoney, you're visible in
entertainment, and I guessmaking a name for yourself,
whatever that means, but you'resucceeding based on society's
(04:46):
standards, yet you feel likeyou're losing.
You're winning, right?
Based on that diagram, based onthat diagram.
But if you look around the atthe people around you and the
way they're talking to you andhow people are dealing with you,
you feel as if you're losingbecause you're not being
necessarily complimented.
You're being mocked, you'rebeing made fun of, you're you're
(05:07):
being measured, you're beingevaluated everywhere you go.
So there's a sense like, wow,man, that's I didn't see that
part of this coming.
But it didn't, it didn't phaseme because I grew up in a world
where there was a lot of psychicand physical attacks, man.
So I just chalked it up to,okay, another opportunity for me
to like practice psychic martialarts clearly in a realm that you
(05:28):
know may compliment you with onehand and then disarm you and
then go in and then slap youwith the other, just when you
just feel like, oh well, thankyou.
Pow, you get hit.
And so I learned to keep myguard up psychically, not to be
paranoid and be mean, but justto be uh ready in relationship
to so many situations, whetherit was auditioning, being on
(05:49):
movie sets, dealing with agents,dealing with manager, all that
and the business of show.
And there was a I realized therewas an element of it that was
very vicious.
And that's where your faithcomes in, in the art form.
That's where your faith in yourin your in the creative art, the
art itself.
You have to let the art envelopeyou and not get caught up in all
(06:10):
the vanity fare and the anticsof of ego tripping that people
are enveloped by.
You have to overcome it andovercome yourself so you can do
the work properly.
And and and when your friend ofyours or someone, a colleague of
yours, says, Hey man, I got ajob, you don't ask them, wait,
well, well, what is it?
How many weeks, you know, howmuch are they paying you, what
(06:31):
kind of role it is.
You don't whip out a measuringstick on them.
I never did that.
People did that with meconstantly.
Oh, what are you playing aconvict?
Oh, what are you gonna be?
There was always this kind oflike negative tone that would
come back almost as a as aninsult to negate or de-emphasize
the victory.
Because I want, you know, anyactor knows this.
When you go into audition,you're up against countless
(06:52):
people for one role, you know,and the anxiety that can
produce, man, is mind blockingmind-bending, right?
So we all know this, which moreof the reason I think to be
sensitive to one another, butit's not the case to that others
I found to be sensitive.
I found them to be even moreaggressive in that case.
But I tried not to do that.
I was it wasn't my inclinationto rain on like Frank Sinatra's
(07:16):
song, man.
I don't want to rain, you know,rain on anybody's parade or or
discount something when I knowwhat the odds are.
You know, I would simply say,man, congratulations, man.
I'm happy for you.
Or if they'd come back from aproject, I would say they'd say,
Hey, were they nice to you?
Did you have a good time?
That's it.
You know, and if they want toelaborate on that subject in
(07:36):
terms of the mathematics, that'stheir business.
But I didn't ask them how muchmoney.
I remember times where I waswatching TV shows that I was on
with certain people, and therean argument would ensue simply
because someone asked thequestion, well, how much did
they pay him for that episode?
And the other person would say,How dare you to ask a question?
That's so inappropriate.
(07:57):
So a lot of the time I wouldn'teven get to watch the premiere
of some of my TV shows because Iwas in the midst of an argument
that had nothing to do with me.
But those who were with me werearguing over how inappropriate
it was to measure myaccomplishment based on money,
you know, or the platform, thatkind of thing.
So I I saw it wasn't justHollywood, it was in other areas
(08:18):
of life, personal, that peoplewere looking at entertainment,
not just for the sake ofentertainment, but measuring the
person based on theirfinancials.
You know, there's like yourfinancial status suddenly is
looked at in relationship to theplatform.
And then if you make enoughmoney, then I guess they you're
(08:40):
now suddenly anointed, you'reokay.
And the same person that'sanointing you is also trying to
figure out a way to confiscatethe the the achievement.
So it's like you gotta laugh,man.
I guess my way right out thedoor and say, Have a nice day.
You know, just get away from allthese maniacs, man.
And their and their fierytorches trying to take chase me
(09:02):
out of town town like I'm theFrankenstein monster, man.
So it's hysterical, man.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Very interesting, very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, it's you know, those are the jokes.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's like anything else.
You know, guy talk to guyswho've been overseas in combat.
I have a lot of friends who'vebeen in Iraq, Afghanistan, you
know, they say that's you knowthat I've seen it tattooed on
their bodies, you know, glory isfleeting, man.
There's a reason they write thatbecause even with when you do
(09:34):
win, there's the gravity shiftto reality of what you have to
sacrifice for that victory andwhat you have to endure after
the victory or during thevictory.
There's something else thatcomes with the blessing, you
know, that you have to feel too.
And that's why I think it'simportant to have strength of
character.
(09:54):
And some people that grow up acertain way are well fitted in
this industry of show.
Because I think if you're toosensitive, man, and your skin is
too thin, you're gonna be likejust a fucking, you're like like
Grim on the track, you're gonnabe roadkill, man.
You know, he's standing upgoing, can't kill me, can't kill
me.
But you know, you know, five tenten tons of steel going about
(10:18):
60, 70 miles an hour begs todiffer, you know.
And that's Hollywood, man.
Hollywood's coming at you, youknow, and you're boom, you know,
and then you get back up again.
Boom! You know, you're gettingfired at boom, you just keep
getting up and yell, you know,blah, and you just keep forging
forward, man.
And as long as you can stillwalk and talk and fight for your
(10:38):
dinner, your paycheck, yourmoment in the sun, whatever the
individual's motivation is uh todo the job, you know, or simply
the love of the art form itself,whatever it is, you you let that
drive you, and you keep yourblinders on and keep your guard
up, and you just do it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
You know, just do it.
I definitely agree.
I couldn't I could not have saidit better.
There's there's one more film Iwant to ask you about for I
guess this this round of ofinterview, because I've very
long list.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
This one's Yeah, I'm sorry I'm talking so much, man.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
I'm so no no no, you you are fine.
This is what I love about myshow, is you know, to let my my
guests kind of it's it's like aconversation, you know.
See we're we're talking aboutyou know your your career and
stuff, but it's also you know,seeing where the conversation
goes.
I like I like to like to youknow talk to people, you know.
(11:36):
I yes, I like to hear stuffabout the industry, but really
just to to talk to a person andyou know see where everything
goes, I think is like the thefun part.
SPEAKER_00 (11:48):
Yeah, I could agree more.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Awesome, awesome.
This one's a little more recent,and I guess it's on the subject
of great actors, classic actors,and that that was the mule.
And I was wondering what was itlike to to work with Eastwood
and just your your experience onon that film.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
Surreal is the word that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
At first it was just surreal.
I couldn't accept that it washappening.
I and I I dare say I'll speakfor some of my colleagues in
this that were in the sequencesthat we shared with Clint
Eastwood, that they alsoprobably were just as uh shocked
that they were hired.
You know, once you get over theshock, then you gotta do the
job, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
It's like jumping into a swimming pool, it's like
cool, but then you startswimming around a little bit,
you know, right, right.
That's how it was with Clint.
You know, we're all like inshock.
And then once we started, youknow, fleshing out the sequence
and rehearsing, and things justfell into place.
But I'll I'll I'll take you backto the genesis of it.
(12:58):
I got a call from a manager thatthey were interested in me, so I
went into my closet, which I Ididn't, I wasn't in living in
Hollywood at the time, LA, LosAngeles.
And um, so I took my little youknow device and I recorded the
audition that they want, youknow, the with the six pages
they wanted me to, you know, toread, and I sent it to them.
(13:19):
And Clanice would looked at itand he liked it.
And so he gave me some notes, orthey his people gave me some
notes.
Do it again, but just repositionthe camera.
He wanted wanted to see my myphysical body, how I look,
because I was I did a close-up.
Um he wanted to see the sameaudition but in a wide on a wide
angle.
And so I did that, sent it tohim, and the next thing I know,
(13:39):
I got the call.
They're gonna hire you, theywant to hire you.
I'm like, wow.
And I didn't wasn't, you know,waiting, it wasn't a situation
for so many of my colleagues whoI talked to that were in the
film who went on the auditionand sat in the room or sat in
the waiting area with other menwaiting to go in because Clint
Eastwood wasn't there, thecasting director was there.
And I didn't have the benefit,or maybe I did have the benefit
(14:02):
of not being in that situationwhere I had to sit.
I was able to be alone andreally focus on what they
required me to do for theaudition, you know?
And once I arrived to set andmet some of the my my colleagues
that I was gonna work with inthe scene, and we got to know
each other, things just fellinto place.
And I remember after one of thetakes, Clint tapped me in the
(14:26):
stomach, like a quick snap jab,and he said, good stuff, kid.
And I thought, wow, I think I'mbecause I was concerned.
We were all concerned, are weliving up to you know the
standard or what he he expects?
And he said yes.
And uh I I went off book acouple of times in one of the
scenes, and I ad-libbed.
And what I was so wonderful withworking with Pleneswood is that
(14:48):
he just went with me, he playedjazz, man.
He didn't stop the scene, heactually ad-lived along with me.
And actually, that's this theykept it.
The unscripted dialogue, some ofthe stuff that wasn't even on
the page was used in the finalcut.
And I thought how how generousthis man, how kind that he
(15:08):
allowed me to do that and trustit enough, and it worked, and he
complimented me, and so I justfelt like wow, it was just you
know, one of those kind ofmoments in your life where you
you know feel like I guess maybethe way a mountain climber feels
when they reach the peak ofMount Everest.
(15:29):
You know, like wow, right,right.
This man who's not just a man,he's uh a legacy.
He's I've grown up watching allhis films, and so once you get
over that, you know, you gottareally get in there and and do
the job and to be complimentedby that man who I saw as a very
humble, soft-spoken, respectfulman.
(15:52):
I remember when we broke forlunch, I saw somebody at the end
of the line, and I realized itwas Clinius with allowing the
crew and all the actors to eatfirst, and he just sat stood
there, unassuming with his haton, his head down.
Look, is that clear?
Because you know, a lot of thetime when you're on a Hollywood
production and the movie starsthere, they usually disappear
(16:13):
into their trailer or kind ofpush, shuffled away by their
security guards, and you can'tgo near them, right?
He was so accessible.
He sat down with his crew.
I know he's worked with them foryears, you know.
So I've got this sense of thisuh family that he had created
with his crew and people thatwork with him on multiple
projects.
And so it felt very uhcomfortable to be on his set
(16:36):
with his people, and they werevery nice to me.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
That's awesome, and that that really just at least
at least for me, and I'm sure alot of my listeners that are of
course huge Clint Eastwood fans,that that really kind of just
puts like the icing on the cake,you know, to hear, you know, a
story about literally a legend,a living legend.
(17:02):
And again, you know, my dad, ofcourse, got me into Eastwood
stuff, you know, and I will Isaw the mule in theaters, and I
mean anything Clint Eastwooddoes, whether he's just
directing, directing and actingin, you know, he's he's become
(17:26):
one of those, you know,celebrity icons, whether it's in
acting or just directing,anything he does, I I'm
instantly I I will see it intheaters, I I will re-watch it.
I I've I've been re-watching themule on uh HBO.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Oh wow, cool.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
And every every time it's on, it's a movie.
I always turn to also his hisnewest one, Cry Macho.
I've also been watching.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
You know, he He's a force of nature, isn't he, Sam?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Just just just to hear, youknow, a literally a living
experience with with you know alegend, and to hear that he's
like just everything you kind ofyou know hope and and want him
to be.
Yeah, you know, is is very, verycool.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Yeah, and that one I had the courage to go into see
it see in the theaters.
Unless that's I actuallymustered up the courage and I
went to the theaters and watchedit.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
It's it's a fantastic film, you know, and
and you know, again, there'sthere's a couple stars in there.
I'm a big, big fan of, ofcourse, Garcia.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
Yeah, I Andy's something else.
He I felt like he was he I wentup to him and he shook his my
hand.
He says, Hi, I'm Andy Garcia.
I said, It's an honor to meetyou, sir.
And he he did this thing withhis hand on my hand, and then I
was getting into the elevator togo to my room, and he was
getting the elevator or goingpast the elevator, and I he said
something to me, and I saidsomething, and he put his hand
(19:01):
around the side of my head theway a rel, you know, a relative
would caress your head who hasan affection for you.
Uh he said, I'll see, I'll seeyou later.
I said, Yes, sir, I will.
And he I think he appreciatedthat I because I'm, you know, I
got this military background.
So people who I respect areolder than me, even some young
men, people younger than me, Icall them sir, when they're
(19:22):
working jobs clearly that I knoware laborious and maybe tedious.
And I try to I I have to givethem respect because I get it.
And so I think Andy appreciatedappreciated that I was speaking
to him almost like he was acommanding officer in the
military because that's how Iperceived him, you know.
And he responded.
Sometimes you do that and theyrespond with arrogance.
(19:42):
They're like, What are youdoing?
But he saw me.
Yeah, he actually saw me.
I could tell he felt me.
And then he put his hand and theway he caressed my head felt
like it's somebody I knew mywhole life.
He recognized the old schoolrespect and he gave it right
back to me.
Like I was a relative, man, thathe cared about.
(20:04):
And I never forget that.
I will never forget the way hetouched me and how how I knew he
meant it.
He wasn't pretending, he reallymeant it.
And it meant a lot to him that Isaw him as well, and I gave him
that respect.
Because there's a lot of youngpeople, I'm sad to say, they're
in the movie industry now thatare young teeny boppers that may
(20:26):
not even know or care about someof these iconic actors who have
moved the mountains with theirability.
They don't seem to do theirresearch or know about the older
films.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
And uh I I know I just just talked about this
subject with um with PeterDobson in the interview.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Oh, Peter, yeah.
Yeah, Peter, I love Peter.
SPEAKER_02 (20:46):
Um and we're he was telling me about he was on uh a
film set, and he said to I thinkit was the casting director,
this is very remnant of Dog DayAfternoon.
And she said, What's that?
You know, and you know, there'sthere was a job I was working at
(21:07):
a few years ago, and I was likethe oldest one working there,
and it was like right around thetime the newest, the the Blade
Runner sequel came out.
And for me, you know, BladeRunner, the original, is
probably my number one favoritesci-fi movie of all time.
(21:32):
And they were basically sayingthat the fact that it was like,
you know, two and a half hourslong, and they went to see it in
the theaters, and the kidbasically fell asleep, like, you
know, be like before like halfbefore the movie was like
halfway over, you know.
And it's the fact that we have,like you said, this this new
(21:54):
generation that I mean, and thiskid literally said he won't
watch anything past.
Or I mean before 1980.
So it's like you have this newgeneration that you know is
growing up in the age of youknow comic book movies and
everything, and doesn'tnecessarily understand that
(22:17):
there's this whole you knowplethora of of film history and
you know the the reason you knowcertain films are the way they
are and where the inspirationcame from.
I mean, you know, Germanexpressionism.
I mean, that's why Tim Burton isso good at at doing you know
(22:38):
what he does, you know, and youhave all this this classic film
history, and you know, Pacino isis up there, but like, you know,
he has all these awesome movies,De Niro.
I mean, I just I was watchingMean Streets last night, you
know, and and you know, talkabout a classic, you know, film.
(22:58):
And if if you look at MeanStreets compared to you know,
Taxi Driver and then RagingBull, and then Up to Goodfellas
and Casino and and all that, youknow, you can you can clearly
tell it's it's Scorsese like youknow testing the grounds, you
know, for you know what whatwould you know become you know
(23:22):
his signature style, you know,of of directing.
And there's just so many goodmovies out there, and you know,
the fact that they they comefrom a time, you know, pre what
we're living in now, you know,doesn't mean you shouldn't like
diss those movies.
That really means you shouldexplore and investigate those
(23:44):
movies even more, because themovies that a lot of the movies
that they're making today, youknow, aren't they just not
classics, and they they will notstand the test of time.
And I feel like a lot of themovies that we I mean, some some
there are movies that we'remaking now that will stand a
(24:07):
test of time, but I think moreso we've kind of steered away
from you know making makingclassic cinema versus you know
kind of like eye candy in in asense, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, agreed.
There's a lot of that, yeah.
I think my one of my friends, myuh filmmaker friend of mine
calls that the 70%.
That's the 70% he calls it.
And then there's the 30% thatwants to watch stories that take
their time developing thecharacters and you know, don't
rush through the editorial,they're not quick cuts, they
(24:45):
develop the story, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
It's not a throw ride.
You have to really pay attentionand get involved.
It requires that you payattention.
And not everybody wants to dothat.
People just want the throw ride,they want to have their minds
blown.
Like you said, they want thevisual aesthetic to uh
masturbate their consciousnessto a point where they can get
off and you know, just disappearinto these the visual stimuli
(25:14):
and the sound and all that.
Right.
And so, in that sense, thatbecomes the more important
aspect of manipulating audiencesand cueing them and training
them and programming them on howto watch product.
It's almost like a form ofbrainwashing, it's kind of scary
in a way.
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
It's a form of fascism, right?
It doesn't seem like fascismbecause you don't have a guy
with a mustache screaming inGerman at you, right?
But it's it's hidden behindsomething.
It's pretty you know, somethingthat the avatar, the
representative, is set sent infront that looks nothing like
that.
But the suggestion is that youhad better keep up with this,
(25:51):
you had better get with theprogram, you had better keep
pace with this.
And uh, I think Woody Allen saidit in one of his movies, I think
it was Annie Hall, he said thatthe audiences are systematically
uh they don't even know it'sgood because his friend was on a
successful TV show in Hollywood,and Woody Allen said he was
getting nauseous from watchingthe dailies, and he heard the
(26:12):
laugh track that his actorfriend was putting in there.
He goes, those are fake laughs.
He goes, Yeah, but my show's ahit.
He goes, Listen, and he made thecomment about that audiences
don't even know it's goodanymore.
They're you know systematicallyhaving their standards lowered
year after year, you know, and Inever forgot that comment that
he made in his movie about andthis was in the 70s, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
He was recognized.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
I don't think he was just, you know, it was some
vicarious throw.
I think he was very specific,and it was, you know, a
statement he wanted to make thatwas was pointing to the
responsibility that needed to beaddressed.
You know, where are we going?
What are we doing?
What are you guys doing?
Well, you know, and even EdwardNorton and when he communicated
(26:56):
to Michael Keaton's characterand Birdman, you know, that
genocide that you guys arecommitting out there in
Hollywood, you know, he accusedhim of being a fraud.
And they got into that argumentabout, you know, while you're
out there doing, you know, thatcommitting that genocide, I'll
be here on the stage, you know,doing whatever.
And so there's this argumentgoing back and forth, you know,
and I thought that was was sobrilliant in that film, Michael
Keaton, and then it wouldmortgage that they, you know,
(27:17):
that it was written in such away to you know show the
struggle that we face in that inthat in that in that area with
you know sensationalizedentertainment as opposed to
substantial spiritedentertainment that can challenge
the people, inspire them, andmaybe they come away more
(27:38):
intelligent, not dumbing themdown with sound and visuals and
masturbating fantasies that theyhave about escaping to other
worlds or killing violent moviesthat glorify this video game
warfare that seems to bear noconsequence.
When it really does, ask anycombat that'll tell you, it
(28:01):
doesn't really go down likethat, man.
Right.
You don't get shot multipletimes and get back up again.
It doesn't work like that.
So they're they're communicatingthere, I feel at times being
very irresponsible with whatthey're communicating in the uh
the violence because it's notreal, it may seem realistic
because they've gotten so goodwith the the science of special
(28:24):
effects that it seems like itcould happen, but it doesn't.
It's an illusion, it's not real,it's a magic act.
And the problem is young peoplelook at it and they think it
does function that way, it doesnot.
The nervous system shuts downwhen certain things happen to
the body.
There's certain basic thingsthat happen that their films
defy the physics of thatreality, but make it seem
(28:45):
possible because they're so goodat constructing that you know,
that the technical magic act.
And it's dangerous, I think,when you get carried away with
that.
And I don't want to get intoanything political.
I don't know if the chicken, youknow, what came first, the
chicken or the egg.
I don't know if you can, youknow, now suddenly segue into
(29:06):
what's happening socially inAmerica or the violence.
I don't know if one necessarilyspeaks to the other.
Who knows?
You know, there's been violencethroughout history, from the
Greeks beyond, and you know,it's been violence has been with
us, it seemed, for as long as aman has figured out how to pick
up a bone and hit another manover the head for water.
SPEAKER_03 (29:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
So who knows?
But I'm just saying that weyou're talking about you raised
the point of people, maybe uhhow I get what I get from what
you're saying is how audienceshave become desensitized.
And if that's the case, then theproducers that create product
have to keep upping the stakes.
Well, we've blown their mindswith this, but we got to find
(29:47):
new and improved ways to spikethe Kool-Aid or put more
concentrated THC in the drug toreally blow.
We've blown their minds, but wegotta keep blowing their minds,
and they're getting bored, so wegot to figure out a new way to
attack the subject, but reallyyou know, but but increase the
dosage, you know.
(30:08):
So I don't know if we'recreating audience members or
addicts.
SPEAKER_02 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's interesting.
I I don't like to get toopolitical like like either,
especially on my show.
I like to keep it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:24):
I don't know what the heck is going on.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
But it it it is a very like interesting subject
when you think about it.
Yeah.
I mean, what it's it's it'sexactly right, the chicken or
the egg, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
I'll just stick to the virtue of the craft.
I always go back to the craft.
Well, Robert, why are you doingthis?
Or why did you make your ownfilm?
Because I want to I wanted tosee if in fact the claims about
me are true, not just by others,but to myself.
I am I in fact an artist?
Or am I just getting paid to gomad in front of the camera?
(31:01):
You know?
Some may would consider that thecharacters that I've portrayed
or have been asked to portray byothers who've been written for
me may not demonstrate uh a lotof depth.
Uh others would say you takesomething that has no depth and
you give it depth.
How do you do that, Robert?
Well, I was trained to do that.
It all depends on who you talkto, but I think it's still
(31:24):
there's a responsibility to theart form itself.
Forget about the politics,forget about this stuff that we
just mentioned.
But I think at the end of theday, for me and any, I think
artists that is honest withthemselves that am I creating
art or pornography?
What am I doing?
You know, and if I'm not, if I'mnot satisfied or I don't feel
(31:46):
like I'm being true to that,what can I do to change it?
What can I do?
Can I write something?
Can I collaborate with othersthat feel the same way and make
something that speaks to the artform, that does it some justice?
It may not necessarily speak tomillions of people, but at least
is honest in what itcommunicates, you know, and
(32:08):
entertains at the same timebecause you gotta you have to be
able to entertain, you canentertain and be honest and tell
a story that I would sayScorsese's you mentioned
Scossese, I think he wasfascinated.
I don't I don't know the man, soI can't speak for him, but I I I
feel my instinct is that he hasan affection for a certain
culture of this gangsterculture.
(32:29):
I mean, he's he's shown himselfto be incredibly dynamic and he
can do anything, right?
Right, Mean Street.
You mentioned movies like MeanStreet, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas
in this casino.
There seems to be an affectionfor this gangster culture, man.
And he, no better, no one betterthan him, has communicated the
brilliance of that and thedegradation of that world, and
(32:51):
at times taking the glamour awayfrom it.
He's he's presented it to you ina very realistic way, to the
point where you can almostromanticize the characters until
you can't, because he shows yousomething so horrific, you go,
whoa, this is not there'snothing to celebrate about this.
This is this is disturbing towatch this guy be beat to death,
(33:13):
you know, and thrown in a grave.
It's horri horrific, you know.
Right.
Um, so I think his ability tocommunicate it honestly is no
one has done better in thatsense.
So my point is, I feel like hemay have had an affection early
on for a type of storytellingand characters that he grew up
with that he wanted tocommunicate that truth for that
(33:35):
period of time until hegraduated into other types of
movie making, right?
And so I feel that's any artist,they say, well, write about what
you know, right?
So I think if that's if you havea subject matter, and I'm
speaking to the audience thatwants to create and is creating,
I would suggest, I know Ihaven't been asked this, but I
would suggest stick to what youknow and be on, you know, and in
(33:57):
that sense, if you can build offof that platform and bring
others that understand thatvision and share it with you,
then you potentially can embarkon a very artistic and
entertaining endeavor that maychange people's lives at best,
or at the very least, entertainthem for an hour and a half, you
know, because you're coming froma place that's real, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (34:22):
I think it's important to come from a place
that's real.
I think Scosesi came from a veryreal place.
I think he did his research, hewas living the research.
I think he grew up in LittleItaly, you know, he lived in
Little Italy.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Yeah, I know that world.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
I grew up in New York City.
I remember the mafia was veryItalian mafia, he was very
powerful in those days.
I'm sure he rubbed elbows atpeople, or maybe he did, maybe
he didn't.
I don't know.
But I'm sure he was not afraidto dig deep because it shows in
his work.
He authenticates it with suchrealism, man.
You know, in that sense, givesyou an education about the
(34:56):
underworld, you know, and theItalian mafia phenomenon uh in a
way that no one has been able tomatch, in my opinion.
So it's the same thing.
So you find a subject matter.
Like look at Woody Allen, hechampions the neurosis, right?
He makes you laugh over theseneurotic quirks and his, you
know, his fascination or fear ofdeath.
And he makes it funny, you know.
(35:17):
He you know there's a patternwith some of these filmmakers in
the way they write things thatyou feel may be kind of close to
home or they may deny it.
Who knows?
But I think it's important tostart from an honest place,
marry it to your creativeability, and bring other people
on board that can helpaccentuate that so that the
experience is authentic.
It's not contrived, it's comingfrom a real place, you know.
(35:41):
And then, you know, ideally, youyou know, you can also, you
know, you want to entertainpeople too.
So I think that's important toremember that there's certain
formulas that have to run tandemwith that truth that make the
audience want to see what'sgoing to happen next.
There's definitely a a formulathat doesn't have to diminish
the artistic aspect of the ofthe of the of the piece, you
(36:04):
know, that can work with it.
It's just real it that's thetrick, man, which is you know,
Bert, I remember Bert Lancasterand Kirk Douglas had an argument
about this.
There was an interview withthem.
And Kirk Douglas said, it's notour responsibility to consider
the social significance of whatwe communicate in these films.
We're just there to entertain.
(36:25):
And Bert Lancaster said, No, Idisagree.
It is our responsibility asartists and celebrities or
performers to communicate amessage that speaks to the
people that can change lives.
So they were arguing.
One was saying, no, we're justentertainers, we're not here,
we're not messiahs, we're notprophets.
And Bert Lancaster's take on itwas very different.
He saw a responsibility not justto entertain, but to be true in
(36:49):
the world.
SPEAKER_02 (36:50):
Right.
Yeah, very interesting.
I I have two closer questionsfor you.
I know we've been talking aboutmovies and everything.
I'm curious to know what arejust some of your favorite
films, just in general, and thenif you had any other upcoming
projects to promote.
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
Okay.
Three films come to mind.
It could simply be coming ofage, but they were also, in my
opinion, they were great films.
American Graffiti.
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
Great movie.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
The Exorcist, William Freaking, big William
Freakin fan, and The PoseidonAdventure, where three uh with
you know, starring Gene Hackman,Ernest.
Star Studded Cast won manyawards.
I when I think Academy Awardsmeant something, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Right, right.
No, no, you're right.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Um, but uh so yeah, so the Poseidon venture to me
was a rare, one of these raresituations where you combine the
action element.
Irvin Allen was able to combinethe action with this religious
or seemingly spiritual allegoryof the ship going upside down
and this priest, Gene Hackman,having to lead the small group
(38:05):
of people through the sh bowelsof the ship to get to the top,
which was actually the bottom.
unknown (38:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
Everybody who was on top commanding the ship was
underneath now.
And to me, I see the movie as aspiritual allegory for mankind,
like this huge event, you know,a comet or the uh a tsunami, a
tidal wave hits humanity and itflips it upside down.
And you have the messianicprophet who's telling the
people, look, if we stay here,we're gonna die, we're gonna
sink deeper and deeper into theocean.
(38:32):
If you want to get out andsurvive, you have to fight your
way up and out.
And the argument was that no, wehave to sit here and wait till
help arrives.
This man knows nothing of theworkings of the ship, you know,
and argued, and Gene Hackhamcalled him a pompous ass and
said, You you guys are gonna thewater's gonna be keep filling up
into the ship and you're gonnasink deeper and deeper, which to
(38:53):
me is like mankind falling intoDante's inferno.
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
And there's an opportunity to fight your way up
out of, you know, like Miltonsaid, long as the way and out of
hell leads up to light.
So we got to fight our way toget out.
And so I thought the movie wasprofound in its ability to
communicate the literature in away that wasn't preachy.
But if you look real closely andhave any kind of background in
theology, you understand thatthe writers were definitely
(39:21):
cleverly in you know, suggestingthese, these, this moral dynamic
and spiritual dynamic.
And then American Maffiti, themusic alone was enough to hook
me.
The cars were like each car, youknow, John Milner and his deuce
coupe, you know, the yellowdeuce coupe.
(39:41):
Chevy, you know, uh it's seeminga time of innocence, you know,
in America, uh, you know, rightyou know, when before the that
tsunami and you know, LosAngeles became a kind of bizarre
place in the 70s after the 60s,you know, revolution uh
revolution.
But right prior to that, becauseI think that movie, because the
movie's, I think, tagline iswhere were you in 62?
(40:04):
So it speaks to a time ofinnocence, maybe that never even
existed, who knows?
Where America seemed to have avitality in the way that it
communicated itself, you know,visually.
And then Lucas did a brilliantjob with the sound design and
the color scheme and thismake-believe world that almost
(40:25):
seemed real.
And you wanted to get you wantedto go to that place and ride up
and down the strip in those carsand hang out with the guys and
talk to the girls and listen tothese classic, this classic
duo-op music, man.
That's perennial.
And then The Exorcist, I mean,like, I don't know, man.
William Freakin's ability toconjure the devil in a way so
(40:47):
realistically, because the moviemoves functions more like a
drama, I think, than it does amovie that's classified as
horror.
And William and Alan Berson'sperformance, Linda Blair, Max
von Siddao, the young priest ofall the actors in this film were
brilliant.
And the way it was put together,and even I think Alan Burston
(41:10):
was interviewed about that filmand said that some bizarre
things happened when they weremaking that film, that there
were these tragic deathsthroughout the production, and
she wondered if they wereconjuring something, you know,
uh that might have been a littlebit dangerous in terms of the
occult.
And so I was always fascinatedby her story and how the movie
impacted my life, and so manypeople who had never seen
(41:33):
anything like that in the 70s.
And, you know, it's a if youlook on YouTube, you can see
videos of people actually beingescorted out of the theater
because they were vomiting,having panic attacks, anxiety
attacks because you know, Ithink America, 1970s, America,
and its social conscience andits innocence was a little bit
(41:54):
more on its sleeve, more.
It wasn't because I don't thinkwe were so desensitized yet.
And to witness something asbizarre as the Ectrosis is so
extreme.
This idea of innocence beingraped and captured by evil was
so well orchestrated.
And even with the limitations ofthe physics of makeup and
(42:16):
science, they still didincredible, incredible practical
effects, man.
To this day, when I look at themand I consider the performances
married to the effect, it'sstill unsettling to watch, I
think.
If you look at it mechanicallyand you don't consider the
spiritual element that's movingthrough the movie, then you'll
discount it as a substandard,you know, schlocky special
(42:39):
effects.
And but I don't look at it thatway.
And so that movie changed mylife in that regard.
And yeah, so those three films,definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Awesome, awesome.
And if you had any otherupcoming projects to promote,
I'm gonna be selfish.
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
Um I have my own project that I wrote, directed,
and played the lead in calledAmerican Trash.
It's a social commentary aboutwhere we are as a culture,
specifically in the geography ofLos Angeles, the apathy that
seems to be the rination of oursociety, the pollution that is
(43:18):
destroying the natural habitat,and the issue of PTSD that men
deal with when they come backfrom the war.
I created several pull-throughlines in my story titled America
Trash, which is an attempt tobring the 1960s spirit into the
21st century and introduce thepossibility that even with all
(43:41):
this conflict going on, thatpeople can still come together
in a community of love and carefor somebody who's struggling
with loss or mental illness andlove one another, help each
other through a very challengingtime.
SPEAKER_02 (43:59):
I think that's very
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
powerful that's that's a very an a awesome thing
to to do so that's you know I II I I'm in post-production now
and my editor Anthony Espina isvery talented.
He's scoring the film, editingit.
I've got a colorist so longstory short we're in
post-production.
Hopefully at some point nextyear, you know I'll it'll find
(44:21):
its home proper distributionplatform and I can share my opus
with people who maybe might findthe story engaging and
entertaining.
Because I needed to it had tocome out, you know definitely.
I needed to just like you weretalking earlier about your
(44:42):
collaboration it just it bubblesup on you after a while and
you're just like I've got to andit after a while you don't even
have to write how did you writethis I didn't write it.
It's been living with it's beenin it's been in me for years.
It's you know I just needed tofinally muster up the conviction
to write to to sit down andfocus and it just wrote itself
you know exactly sitting in mycar one day looking out at the
(45:06):
PCH looking out at the PacificOcean and enjoying this
incredible view and I watchedthis family get in their very
expensive SUV and they werethrowing trash on the ground
after they'd wiped their wipedtheir feet off and I remember
thinking what would happen ifsome flower childs you know from
the 1960s showed up and said heyexcuse me guys would you mind
picking up your trash before youleave what would happen how
(45:29):
would the father the mother howwould the how would that those
kids respond to this woman'saffection for Mother Earth and
her being appalled in a politeway that they were so
desensitized that they werebasically divorcing themselves
from the very thing that theyare that they came from earth
they earth you know we're allfrom earth right we're all been
(45:52):
you know we've been born intofamilies but we are come out of
the earth the way a flower comesout of you know a plant comes
out of the ground we also havebeen sprouted from the earth
right so this idea that we candivorce ourselves just ask the
American Indians that we asso-called you know modern man
can divorce himself bysuperimposing a technological
(46:14):
matrix over the real world is afallacy and it's destroying us
man and so I wanted to create anarchetype in a female that would
communicate the glory or thelove of the planet itself and
remind people in a very politeloving you know considerate way
hey man wake up like we have toswim in that water let's stop
(46:36):
polluting our well springs let'sstop cutting our trees down
let's stop destroying the veryhome that we live in why are we
doing this?
So I raised the question youknow in a in a sort of
controversial way.
I won't tell you what that isright now but I needed you know
there has to be an element Iwon't call it a gimmick I would
say there has to be acontroversial element to move it
(46:58):
along because these days youhave to know your audience right
as my activities used to say tome and my managers to say to me
so there are certain things Ihad to conjure to get and drive
the point home and even if theydon't understand the point
they're looking at the personthat's communicating the point
because of what they think thatperson represents an infamy you
(47:20):
know right and I I'm nostrangers to infamy because I'm
what the bad guy right accordingto certain observations I am the
outlaw right I'm the the monsterI'm the devil I'm you know the
guy that comes to do a killingyou know so or be killed or you
know usually situations ofviolence right and it's cool man
like I'm I'm not tripping on it.
(47:41):
I I think it's fun it's not youknow it's it is what it is.
So I think if I'm going toutilize the very exploits that
have been used to put me infront of the people why not take
that formula and utilize it inmy own way you know and marry it
to something that they havenever conceived of writing for
me.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
I'll write it myself you know I think that's awesome
and I I agree with all thepoints that you know you brought
up that are in are in the filmI'm I'm very excited to check it
out as soon as it's released.
Absolutely I mean again you knowI'm a huge fan I we we we we we
(48:23):
we only touched the uh the tipof of the iceberg you know with
with every everything that I Iwant to talk to you about so
yeah forgive me if I didn'tallow you enough time to no no
no no that this this has beenexactly what I was hoping for we
in fact better than what I washoping for so it's it just just
(48:46):
leaves you know more room foryou know round two round two
three four five you know glad tohear that cool absolutely and I
just want to let you know I diduh send you a friend request oh
on Facebook okay so I I you knowI know you're you're pretty
(49:07):
pretty busy on there you're notthat busy man it's Sunday i mean
that's it's it's it's just it'sit's just push pushing a button
that's all it is it's not thathard okay okay thank you for
letting me know so I'll I'lllook and then I'll press the
button and we're good to go.
Awesome awesome well Rob it ithas been a pleasure talking with
you thank you so I I honestlycannot wait to to do round two
(49:29):
i'll have a little bit of anissue with editing right now
trying to get it resolved withhiring some more editors as soon
as it's posted and I'll send youa link.
Thank you sir appreciate thatit's it's just been a pleasure
talking with you.
It's the same here Matt I youknow you know same here make you
happen you make me happen it'syou know it's exactly exactly
(49:53):
yeah I get it yeah awesomeawesome have a have a great rest
of your weekend happy holidayshave a good Thanksgiving and I
look forward to talking with yousoon you as well brother awesome
thank you so much what's up allmy fishes in the sea thanks
again for tuning in and forbeing a subscriber your
(50:15):
continued support means a lot Iwant to let all my guppies in
the sea know you can nowpurchase custom fishbowl merch
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at the fishbowl get hooked onyours today we have custom
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(50:39):
make you the coolest lookingfish in the sea and if that's
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Again your support means themost it's the most important
(51:01):
fishes in the sea to keep theunit going.
Thanks again y'all and keeptuning in and let's all keep
swimming upstream
Attention, all you fishes in the sea.
Thanks for tuning in.
I'm your host, Sam Fish.
Today we'll be wrapping up ourconversation from last week with
character actor Robert Lozardo.
You want to get hooked on thisone and keep a keen ear because
this is going to be a greatcontinuing conversation.
As always, please remember tolike, share, and subscribe.
SPEAKER_00 (00:23):
But you know, you brought up Waterworld, and I I
think it was very it was it wassomething else, man, to be
walking around Hollywood where Ilived at the time wearing a
shirt that was given to me by aproduction that said Waterworld
on it.
And I remember one of my friendspointing out, saying to me, in
not such a kind way, aren't youa little embarrassed to be
(00:46):
walking around with that shirton?
But like, no.
Why'd I be embarrassed?
He goes, Well, that was a thatwas a you know industry flop and
all this, like once again, themathematics of it.
The point is that I didn't care,man.
I've never cared about thejudgments of men, of men, of
people who uh feel that it's uhsome kind there's some kind of
(01:10):
insight into pointing things outlike that.
I looked at it like this.
I said, Well, I went to Hawaii,I was on the island of Kona, I
got to meet Kevin Costner.
He was very nice to me.
Kevin Reynolds hired me.
I got paid a a really decentsalary and I had fun.
You know, all this other stuffthat you guys are involved in
(01:30):
has nothing to do with me, man.
Can I go now?
I'm just celebrating.
I'm like, I'm not one of thesepeople, like if I'm in a club
riding a motorcycle, you know,and I got a 1% patch on my back,
and we took a beating yesterdayby a rival club, I'm not gonna
take my patch off and put on adifferent color because we got
our asses kicked.
I'm gonna wear my colors andmaybe next fight we'll win.
(01:52):
I'm gonna stay loyal to thecause because the cause was
loyal to me.
So I'm not gonna talk crap aboutthe people that hired me and
gave me an opportunity.
You know, I went from drop zoneto to Waterworld, man.
So from where I was sitting, aman who needed to make a living
to pay his rent and hold creditcard debt and et cetera, it was
(02:15):
an opportunity to do the thing Iwould I was falling in love
with, to work with great people,to make money, and enjoy it.
And anybody that had somethingto say contrary to that, I was
suspicious of.
And, you know, and that's whatled me to be kind of isolated in
Hollywood over time when Istarted to realize that the
success that I was, I guess,enjoying did not bring a better
(02:38):
class of friend necessarily.
It brought a better class ofenemy in the sense that it
provoked envy in people.
And it can be very lonely inthat sense when all you're
simply trying to do is fulfillthe work order and your
obligation as an artist, becausepeople throughout your life, the
positive ones, have reminded younot to lose sight of your goal,
(02:58):
to be positive, and to stand upin your life and face life with
courage and you know, and andand embrace your vocation with
respect, with humility anddignity.
And you look around and you seeuh, I don't know, this kind of
like Roman Colosseum kind ofbarbarism around you uh in terms
(03:20):
of the psychic collective ofartists who are so ravaged by
their own insecurities orstarving for opportunity that it
makes them go mad.
And I don't think it was any oftheir fault.
Like I don't blame people, notangry with people.
I feel sad.
I've watched generations andgenerations because you know
(03:40):
I've been doing this for alittle while, come and go,
cycling in and out of Hollywood.
And people, I've seen people gocrazy, I've seen people succumb
to drug addiction, I've seenpeople die, I've seen people
lose their minds, and they, youknow, they they run home with
their, you know, to like Dorothyfrom uh but a not so much of a
glamorous version of the Wizardof Oz.
(04:01):
They came to realize what waswaiting for them at the end of
the the end of the yellow brickroad was their own death, you
know, or insanity.
And so a lot I saw a lot ofunreal, unrealized or achieved
dreams and the the the breakingof the mental compass in
people's psyche, which turnedthem into this zombified, almost
(04:23):
an aggressive, yeah, aggressivetypes that were not very kind in
their observations.
So you just learn to be veryselective in who you spend time
with because you could based onsociety's observation of
winning, you know, you're makingmoney, you're visible in
entertainment, and I guessmaking a name for yourself,
whatever that means, but you'resucceeding based on society's
(04:46):
standards, yet you feel likeyou're losing.
You're winning, right?
Based on that diagram, based onthat diagram.
But if you look around the atthe people around you and the
way they're talking to you andhow people are dealing with you,
you feel as if you're losingbecause you're not being
necessarily complimented.
You're being mocked, you'rebeing made fun of, you're you're
(05:07):
being measured, you're beingevaluated everywhere you go.
So there's a sense like, wow,man, that's I didn't see that
part of this coming.
But it didn't, it didn't phaseme because I grew up in a world
where there was a lot of psychicand physical attacks, man.
So I just chalked it up to,okay, another opportunity for me
to like practice psychic martialarts clearly in a realm that you
(05:28):
know may compliment you with onehand and then disarm you and
then go in and then slap youwith the other, just when you
just feel like, oh well, thankyou.
Pow, you get hit.
And so I learned to keep myguard up psychically, not to be
paranoid and be mean, but justto be uh ready in relationship
to so many situations, whetherit was auditioning, being on
(05:49):
movie sets, dealing with agents,dealing with manager, all that
and the business of show.
And there was a I realized therewas an element of it that was
very vicious.
And that's where your faithcomes in, in the art form.
That's where your faith in yourin your in the creative art, the
art itself.
You have to let the art envelopeyou and not get caught up in all
(06:10):
the vanity fare and the anticsof of ego tripping that people
are enveloped by.
You have to overcome it andovercome yourself so you can do
the work properly.
And and and when your friend ofyours or someone, a colleague of
yours, says, Hey man, I got ajob, you don't ask them, wait,
well, well, what is it?
How many weeks, you know, howmuch are they paying you, what
(06:31):
kind of role it is.
You don't whip out a measuringstick on them.
I never did that.
People did that with meconstantly.
Oh, what are you playing aconvict?
Oh, what are you gonna be?
There was always this kind oflike negative tone that would
come back almost as a as aninsult to negate or de-emphasize
the victory.
Because I want, you know, anyactor knows this.
When you go into audition,you're up against countless
(06:52):
people for one role, you know,and the anxiety that can
produce, man, is mind blockingmind-bending, right?
So we all know this, which moreof the reason I think to be
sensitive to one another, butit's not the case to that others
I found to be sensitive.
I found them to be even moreaggressive in that case.
But I tried not to do that.
I was it wasn't my inclinationto rain on like Frank Sinatra's
(07:16):
song, man.
I don't want to rain, you know,rain on anybody's parade or or
discount something when I knowwhat the odds are.
You know, I would simply say,man, congratulations, man.
I'm happy for you.
Or if they'd come back from aproject, I would say they'd say,
Hey, were they nice to you?
Did you have a good time?
That's it.
You know, and if they want toelaborate on that subject in
(07:36):
terms of the mathematics, that'stheir business.
But I didn't ask them how muchmoney.
I remember times where I waswatching TV shows that I was on
with certain people, and therean argument would ensue simply
because someone asked thequestion, well, how much did
they pay him for that episode?
And the other person would say,How dare you to ask a question?
That's so inappropriate.
(07:57):
So a lot of the time I wouldn'teven get to watch the premiere
of some of my TV shows because Iwas in the midst of an argument
that had nothing to do with me.
But those who were with me werearguing over how inappropriate
it was to measure myaccomplishment based on money,
you know, or the platform, thatkind of thing.
So I I saw it wasn't justHollywood, it was in other areas
(08:18):
of life, personal, that peoplewere looking at entertainment,
not just for the sake ofentertainment, but measuring the
person based on theirfinancials.
You know, there's like yourfinancial status suddenly is
looked at in relationship to theplatform.
And then if you make enoughmoney, then I guess they you're
(08:40):
now suddenly anointed, you'reokay.
And the same person that'sanointing you is also trying to
figure out a way to confiscatethe the the achievement.
So it's like you gotta laugh,man.
I guess my way right out thedoor and say, Have a nice day.
You know, just get away from allthese maniacs, man.
And their and their fierytorches trying to take chase me
(09:02):
out of town town like I'm theFrankenstein monster, man.
So it's hysterical, man.
SPEAKER_02 (09:10):
Very interesting, very interesting.
SPEAKER_00 (09:12):
Yeah, it's you know, those are the jokes.
Right, right.
Yeah, it's like anything else.
You know, guy talk to guyswho've been overseas in combat.
I have a lot of friends who'vebeen in Iraq, Afghanistan, you
know, they say that's you knowthat I've seen it tattooed on
their bodies, you know, glory isfleeting, man.
There's a reason they write thatbecause even with when you do
(09:34):
win, there's the gravity shiftto reality of what you have to
sacrifice for that victory andwhat you have to endure after
the victory or during thevictory.
There's something else thatcomes with the blessing, you
know, that you have to feel too.
And that's why I think it'simportant to have strength of
character.
(09:54):
And some people that grow up acertain way are well fitted in
this industry of show.
Because I think if you're toosensitive, man, and your skin is
too thin, you're gonna be likejust a fucking, you're like like
Grim on the track, you're gonnabe roadkill, man.
You know, he's standing upgoing, can't kill me, can't kill
me.
But you know, you know, five tenten tons of steel going about
(10:18):
60, 70 miles an hour begs todiffer, you know.
And that's Hollywood, man.
Hollywood's coming at you, youknow, and you're boom, you know,
and then you get back up again.
Boom! You know, you're gettingfired at boom, you just keep
getting up and yell, you know,blah, and you just keep forging
forward, man.
And as long as you can stillwalk and talk and fight for your
(10:38):
dinner, your paycheck, yourmoment in the sun, whatever the
individual's motivation is uh todo the job, you know, or simply
the love of the art form itself,whatever it is, you you let that
drive you, and you keep yourblinders on and keep your guard
up, and you just do it.
SPEAKER_02 (10:55):
You know, just do it.
I definitely agree.
I couldn't I could not have saidit better.
There's there's one more film Iwant to ask you about for I
guess this this round of ofinterview, because I've very
long list.
SPEAKER_00 (11:12):
This one's Yeah, I'm sorry I'm talking so much, man.
SPEAKER_02 (11:15):
I'm so no no no, you you are fine.
This is what I love about myshow, is you know, to let my my
guests kind of it's it's like aconversation, you know.
See we're we're talking aboutyou know your your career and
stuff, but it's also you know,seeing where the conversation
goes.
I like I like to like to youknow talk to people, you know.
(11:36):
I yes, I like to hear stuffabout the industry, but really
just to to talk to a person andyou know see where everything
goes, I think is like the thefun part.
SPEAKER_00 (11:48):
Yeah, I could agree more.
SPEAKER_02 (11:51):
Awesome, awesome.
This one's a little more recent,and I guess it's on the subject
of great actors, classic actors,and that that was the mule.
And I was wondering what was itlike to to work with Eastwood
and just your your experience onon that film.
SPEAKER_00 (12:12):
Surreal is the word that comes to mind.
SPEAKER_02 (12:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (12:15):
At first it was just surreal.
I couldn't accept that it washappening.
I and I I dare say I'll speakfor some of my colleagues in
this that were in the sequencesthat we shared with Clint
Eastwood, that they alsoprobably were just as uh shocked
that they were hired.
You know, once you get over theshock, then you gotta do the
job, right?
SPEAKER_01 (12:35):
Right, right.
SPEAKER_00 (12:37):
It's like jumping into a swimming pool, it's like
cool, but then you startswimming around a little bit,
you know, right, right.
That's how it was with Clint.
You know, we're all like inshock.
And then once we started, youknow, fleshing out the sequence
and rehearsing, and things justfell into place.
But I'll I'll I'll take you backto the genesis of it.
(12:58):
I got a call from a manager thatthey were interested in me, so I
went into my closet, which I Ididn't, I wasn't in living in
Hollywood at the time, LA, LosAngeles.
And um, so I took my little youknow device and I recorded the
audition that they want, youknow, the with the six pages
they wanted me to, you know, toread, and I sent it to them.
(13:19):
And Clanice would looked at itand he liked it.
And so he gave me some notes, orthey his people gave me some
notes.
Do it again, but just repositionthe camera.
He wanted wanted to see my myphysical body, how I look,
because I was I did a close-up.
Um he wanted to see the sameaudition but in a wide on a wide
angle.
And so I did that, sent it tohim, and the next thing I know,
(13:39):
I got the call.
They're gonna hire you, theywant to hire you.
I'm like, wow.
And I didn't wasn't, you know,waiting, it wasn't a situation
for so many of my colleagues whoI talked to that were in the
film who went on the auditionand sat in the room or sat in
the waiting area with other menwaiting to go in because Clint
Eastwood wasn't there, thecasting director was there.
And I didn't have the benefit,or maybe I did have the benefit
(14:02):
of not being in that situationwhere I had to sit.
I was able to be alone andreally focus on what they
required me to do for theaudition, you know?
And once I arrived to set andmet some of the my my colleagues
that I was gonna work with inthe scene, and we got to know
each other, things just fellinto place.
And I remember after one of thetakes, Clint tapped me in the
(14:26):
stomach, like a quick snap jab,and he said, good stuff, kid.
And I thought, wow, I think I'mbecause I was concerned.
We were all concerned, are weliving up to you know the
standard or what he he expects?
And he said yes.
And uh I I went off book acouple of times in one of the
scenes, and I ad-libbed.
And what I was so wonderful withworking with Pleneswood is that
(14:48):
he just went with me, he playedjazz, man.
He didn't stop the scene, heactually ad-lived along with me.
And actually, that's this theykept it.
The unscripted dialogue, some ofthe stuff that wasn't even on
the page was used in the finalcut.
And I thought how how generousthis man, how kind that he
(15:08):
allowed me to do that and trustit enough, and it worked, and he
complimented me, and so I justfelt like wow, it was just you
know, one of those kind ofmoments in your life where you
you know feel like I guess maybethe way a mountain climber feels
when they reach the peak ofMount Everest.
(15:29):
You know, like wow, right,right.
This man who's not just a man,he's uh a legacy.
He's I've grown up watching allhis films, and so once you get
over that, you know, you gottareally get in there and and do
the job and to be complimentedby that man who I saw as a very
humble, soft-spoken, respectfulman.
(15:52):
I remember when we broke forlunch, I saw somebody at the end
of the line, and I realized itwas Clinius with allowing the
crew and all the actors to eatfirst, and he just sat stood
there, unassuming with his haton, his head down.
Look, is that clear?
Because you know, a lot of thetime when you're on a Hollywood
production and the movie starsthere, they usually disappear
(16:13):
into their trailer or kind ofpush, shuffled away by their
security guards, and you can'tgo near them, right?
He was so accessible.
He sat down with his crew.
I know he's worked with them foryears, you know.
So I've got this sense of thisuh family that he had created
with his crew and people thatwork with him on multiple
projects.
And so it felt very uhcomfortable to be on his set
(16:36):
with his people, and they werevery nice to me.
SPEAKER_02 (16:39):
That's awesome, and that that really just at least
at least for me, and I'm sure alot of my listeners that are of
course huge Clint Eastwood fans,that that really kind of just
puts like the icing on the cake,you know, to hear, you know, a
story about literally a legend,a living legend.
(17:02):
And again, you know, my dad, ofcourse, got me into Eastwood
stuff, you know, and I will Isaw the mule in theaters, and I
mean anything Clint Eastwooddoes, whether he's just
directing, directing and actingin, you know, he's he's become
(17:26):
one of those, you know,celebrity icons, whether it's in
acting or just directing,anything he does, I I'm
instantly I I will see it intheaters, I I will re-watch it.
I I've I've been re-watching themule on uh HBO.
SPEAKER_00 (17:44):
Oh wow, cool.
SPEAKER_02 (17:45):
And every every time it's on, it's a movie.
I always turn to also his hisnewest one, Cry Macho.
I've also been watching.
SPEAKER_00 (17:56):
You know, he He's a force of nature, isn't he, Sam?
SPEAKER_02 (17:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Just just just to hear, youknow, a literally a living
experience with with you know alegend, and to hear that he's
like just everything you kind ofyou know hope and and want him
to be.
Yeah, you know, is is very, verycool.
SPEAKER_00 (18:19):
Yeah, and that one I had the courage to go into see
it see in the theaters.
Unless that's I actuallymustered up the courage and I
went to the theaters and watchedit.
SPEAKER_02 (18:28):
It's it's a fantastic film, you know, and
and you know, again, there'sthere's a couple stars in there.
I'm a big, big fan of, ofcourse, Garcia.
SPEAKER_00 (18:38):
Yeah, I Andy's something else.
He I felt like he was he I wentup to him and he shook his my
hand.
He says, Hi, I'm Andy Garcia.
I said, It's an honor to meetyou, sir.
And he he did this thing withhis hand on my hand, and then I
was getting into the elevator togo to my room, and he was
getting the elevator or goingpast the elevator, and I he said
something to me, and I saidsomething, and he put his hand
(19:01):
around the side of my head theway a rel, you know, a relative
would caress your head who hasan affection for you.
Uh he said, I'll see, I'll seeyou later.
I said, Yes, sir, I will.
And he I think he appreciatedthat I because I'm, you know, I
got this military background.
So people who I respect areolder than me, even some young
men, people younger than me, Icall them sir, when they're
(19:22):
working jobs clearly that I knoware laborious and maybe tedious.
And I try to I I have to givethem respect because I get it.
And so I think Andy appreciatedappreciated that I was speaking
to him almost like he was acommanding officer in the
military because that's how Iperceived him, you know.
And he responded.
Sometimes you do that and theyrespond with arrogance.
(19:42):
They're like, What are youdoing?
But he saw me.
Yeah, he actually saw me.
I could tell he felt me.
And then he put his hand and theway he caressed my head felt
like it's somebody I knew mywhole life.
He recognized the old schoolrespect and he gave it right
back to me.
Like I was a relative, man, thathe cared about.
(20:04):
And I never forget that.
I will never forget the way hetouched me and how how I knew he
meant it.
He wasn't pretending, he reallymeant it.
And it meant a lot to him that Isaw him as well, and I gave him
that respect.
Because there's a lot of youngpeople, I'm sad to say, they're
in the movie industry now thatare young teeny boppers that may
(20:26):
not even know or care about someof these iconic actors who have
moved the mountains with theirability.
They don't seem to do theirresearch or know about the older
films.
SPEAKER_02 (20:36):
And uh I I know I just just talked about this
subject with um with PeterDobson in the interview.
SPEAKER_00 (20:44):
Oh, Peter, yeah.
Yeah, Peter, I love Peter.
SPEAKER_02 (20:46):
Um and we're he was telling me about he was on uh a
film set, and he said to I thinkit was the casting director,
this is very remnant of Dog DayAfternoon.
And she said, What's that?
You know, and you know, there'sthere was a job I was working at
(21:07):
a few years ago, and I was likethe oldest one working there,
and it was like right around thetime the newest, the the Blade
Runner sequel came out.
And for me, you know, BladeRunner, the original, is
probably my number one favoritesci-fi movie of all time.
(21:32):
And they were basically sayingthat the fact that it was like,
you know, two and a half hourslong, and they went to see it in
the theaters, and the kidbasically fell asleep, like, you
know, be like before like halfbefore the movie was like
halfway over, you know.
And it's the fact that we have,like you said, this this new
(21:54):
generation that I mean, and thiskid literally said he won't
watch anything past.
Or I mean before 1980.
So it's like you have this newgeneration that you know is
growing up in the age of youknow comic book movies and
everything, and doesn'tnecessarily understand that
(22:17):
there's this whole you knowplethora of of film history and
you know the the reason you knowcertain films are the way they
are and where the inspirationcame from.
I mean, you know, Germanexpressionism.
I mean, that's why Tim Burton isso good at at doing you know
(22:38):
what he does, you know, and youhave all this this classic film
history, and you know, Pacino isis up there, but like, you know,
he has all these awesome movies,De Niro.
I mean, I just I was watchingMean Streets last night, you
know, and and you know, talkabout a classic, you know, film.
(22:58):
And if if you look at MeanStreets compared to you know,
Taxi Driver and then RagingBull, and then Up to Goodfellas
and Casino and and all that, youknow, you can you can clearly
tell it's it's Scorsese like youknow testing the grounds, you
know, for you know what whatwould you know become you know
(23:22):
his signature style, you know,of of directing.
And there's just so many goodmovies out there, and you know,
the fact that they they comefrom a time, you know, pre what
we're living in now, you know,doesn't mean you shouldn't like
diss those movies.
That really means you shouldexplore and investigate those
(23:44):
movies even more, because themovies that a lot of the movies
that they're making today, youknow, aren't they just not
classics, and they they will notstand the test of time.
And I feel like a lot of themovies that we I mean, some some
there are movies that we'remaking now that will stand a
(24:07):
test of time, but I think moreso we've kind of steered away
from you know making makingclassic cinema versus you know
kind of like eye candy in in asense, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (24:23):
Yeah, agreed.
There's a lot of that, yeah.
I think my one of my friends, myuh filmmaker friend of mine
calls that the 70%.
That's the 70% he calls it.
And then there's the 30% thatwants to watch stories that take
their time developing thecharacters and you know, don't
rush through the editorial,they're not quick cuts, they
(24:45):
develop the story, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (24:46):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (24:49):
It's not a throw ride.
You have to really pay attentionand get involved.
It requires that you payattention.
And not everybody wants to dothat.
People just want the throw ride,they want to have their minds
blown.
Like you said, they want thevisual aesthetic to uh
masturbate their consciousnessto a point where they can get
off and you know, just disappearinto these the visual stimuli
(25:14):
and the sound and all that.
Right.
And so, in that sense, thatbecomes the more important
aspect of manipulating audiencesand cueing them and training
them and programming them on howto watch product.
It's almost like a form ofbrainwashing, it's kind of scary
in a way.
SPEAKER_02 (25:29):
I know, I know.
SPEAKER_00 (25:30):
It's a form of fascism, right?
It doesn't seem like fascismbecause you don't have a guy
with a mustache screaming inGerman at you, right?
But it's it's hidden behindsomething.
It's pretty you know, somethingthat the avatar, the
representative, is set sent infront that looks nothing like
that.
But the suggestion is that youhad better keep up with this,
(25:51):
you had better get with theprogram, you had better keep
pace with this.
And uh, I think Woody Allen saidit in one of his movies, I think
it was Annie Hall, he said thatthe audiences are systematically
uh they don't even know it'sgood because his friend was on a
successful TV show in Hollywood,and Woody Allen said he was
getting nauseous from watchingthe dailies, and he heard the
(26:12):
laugh track that his actorfriend was putting in there.
He goes, those are fake laughs.
He goes, Yeah, but my show's ahit.
He goes, Listen, and he made thecomment about that audiences
don't even know it's goodanymore.
They're you know systematicallyhaving their standards lowered
year after year, you know, and Inever forgot that comment that
he made in his movie about andthis was in the 70s, right?
SPEAKER_01 (26:32):
He was recognized.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (26:33):
I don't think he was just, you know, it was some
vicarious throw.
I think he was very specific,and it was, you know, a
statement he wanted to make thatwas was pointing to the
responsibility that needed to beaddressed.
You know, where are we going?
What are we doing?
What are you guys doing?
Well, you know, and even EdwardNorton and when he communicated
(26:56):
to Michael Keaton's characterand Birdman, you know, that
genocide that you guys arecommitting out there in
Hollywood, you know, he accusedhim of being a fraud.
And they got into that argumentabout, you know, while you're
out there doing, you know, thatcommitting that genocide, I'll
be here on the stage, you know,doing whatever.
And so there's this argumentgoing back and forth, you know,
and I thought that was was sobrilliant in that film, Michael
Keaton, and then it wouldmortgage that they, you know,
(27:17):
that it was written in such away to you know show the
struggle that we face in that inthat in that in that area with
you know sensationalizedentertainment as opposed to
substantial spiritedentertainment that can challenge
the people, inspire them, andmaybe they come away more
(27:38):
intelligent, not dumbing themdown with sound and visuals and
masturbating fantasies that theyhave about escaping to other
worlds or killing violent moviesthat glorify this video game
warfare that seems to bear noconsequence.
When it really does, ask anycombat that'll tell you, it
(28:01):
doesn't really go down likethat, man.
Right.
You don't get shot multipletimes and get back up again.
It doesn't work like that.
So they're they're communicatingthere, I feel at times being
very irresponsible with whatthey're communicating in the uh
the violence because it's notreal, it may seem realistic
because they've gotten so goodwith the the science of special
(28:24):
effects that it seems like itcould happen, but it doesn't.
It's an illusion, it's not real,it's a magic act.
And the problem is young peoplelook at it and they think it
does function that way, it doesnot.
The nervous system shuts downwhen certain things happen to
the body.
There's certain basic thingsthat happen that their films
defy the physics of thatreality, but make it seem
(28:45):
possible because they're so goodat constructing that you know,
that the technical magic act.
And it's dangerous, I think,when you get carried away with
that.
And I don't want to get intoanything political.
I don't know if the chicken, youknow, what came first, the
chicken or the egg.
I don't know if you can, youknow, now suddenly segue into
(29:06):
what's happening socially inAmerica or the violence.
I don't know if one necessarilyspeaks to the other.
Who knows?
You know, there's been violencethroughout history, from the
Greeks beyond, and you know,it's been violence has been with
us, it seemed, for as long as aman has figured out how to pick
up a bone and hit another manover the head for water.
SPEAKER_03 (29:24):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (29:25):
So who knows?
But I'm just saying that weyou're talking about you raised
the point of people, maybe uhhow I get what I get from what
you're saying is how audienceshave become desensitized.
And if that's the case, then theproducers that create product
have to keep upping the stakes.
Well, we've blown their mindswith this, but we got to find
(29:47):
new and improved ways to spikethe Kool-Aid or put more
concentrated THC in the drug toreally blow.
We've blown their minds, but wegotta keep blowing their minds,
and they're getting bored, so wegot to figure out a new way to
attack the subject, but reallyyou know, but but increase the
dosage, you know.
(30:08):
So I don't know if we'recreating audience members or
addicts.
SPEAKER_02 (30:13):
Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's interesting.
I I don't like to get toopolitical like like either,
especially on my show.
I like to keep it.
SPEAKER_00 (30:24):
I don't know what the heck is going on.
SPEAKER_02 (30:27):
But it it it is a very like interesting subject
when you think about it.
Yeah.
I mean, what it's it's it'sexactly right, the chicken or
the egg, you know?
SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
I'll just stick to the virtue of the craft.
I always go back to the craft.
Well, Robert, why are you doingthis?
Or why did you make your ownfilm?
Because I want to I wanted tosee if in fact the claims about
me are true, not just by others,but to myself.
I am I in fact an artist?
Or am I just getting paid to gomad in front of the camera?
(31:01):
You know?
Some may would consider that thecharacters that I've portrayed
or have been asked to portray byothers who've been written for
me may not demonstrate uh a lotof depth.
Uh others would say you takesomething that has no depth and
you give it depth.
How do you do that, Robert?
Well, I was trained to do that.
It all depends on who you talkto, but I think it's still
(31:24):
there's a responsibility to theart form itself.
Forget about the politics,forget about this stuff that we
just mentioned.
But I think at the end of theday, for me and any, I think
artists that is honest withthemselves that am I creating
art or pornography?
What am I doing?
You know, and if I'm not, if I'mnot satisfied or I don't feel
(31:46):
like I'm being true to that,what can I do to change it?
What can I do?
Can I write something?
Can I collaborate with othersthat feel the same way and make
something that speaks to the artform, that does it some justice?
It may not necessarily speak tomillions of people, but at least
is honest in what itcommunicates, you know, and
(32:08):
entertains at the same timebecause you gotta you have to be
able to entertain, you canentertain and be honest and tell
a story that I would sayScorsese's you mentioned
Scossese, I think he wasfascinated.
I don't I don't know the man, soI can't speak for him, but I I I
feel my instinct is that he hasan affection for a certain
culture of this gangsterculture.
(32:29):
I mean, he's he's shown himselfto be incredibly dynamic and he
can do anything, right?
Right, Mean Street.
You mentioned movies like MeanStreet, Taxi Driver, Goodfellas
in this casino.
There seems to be an affectionfor this gangster culture, man.
And he, no better, no one betterthan him, has communicated the
brilliance of that and thedegradation of that world, and
(32:51):
at times taking the glamour awayfrom it.
He's he's presented it to you ina very realistic way, to the
point where you can almostromanticize the characters until
you can't, because he shows yousomething so horrific, you go,
whoa, this is not there'snothing to celebrate about this.
This is this is disturbing towatch this guy be beat to death,
(33:13):
you know, and thrown in a grave.
It's horri horrific, you know.
Right.
Um, so I think his ability tocommunicate it honestly is no
one has done better in thatsense.
So my point is, I feel like hemay have had an affection early
on for a type of storytellingand characters that he grew up
with that he wanted tocommunicate that truth for that
(33:35):
period of time until hegraduated into other types of
movie making, right?
And so I feel that's any artist,they say, well, write about what
you know, right?
So I think if that's if you havea subject matter, and I'm
speaking to the audience thatwants to create and is creating,
I would suggest, I know Ihaven't been asked this, but I
would suggest stick to what youknow and be on, you know, and in
(33:57):
that sense, if you can build offof that platform and bring
others that understand thatvision and share it with you,
then you potentially can embarkon a very artistic and
entertaining endeavor that maychange people's lives at best,
or at the very least, entertainthem for an hour and a half, you
know, because you're coming froma place that's real, you know.
SPEAKER_01 (34:21):
Definitely.
SPEAKER_00 (34:22):
I think it's important to come from a place
that's real.
I think Scosesi came from a veryreal place.
I think he did his research, hewas living the research.
I think he grew up in LittleItaly, you know, he lived in
Little Italy.
SPEAKER_03 (34:33):
Yeah, I know that world.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
I grew up in New York City.
I remember the mafia was veryItalian mafia, he was very
powerful in those days.
I'm sure he rubbed elbows atpeople, or maybe he did, maybe
he didn't.
I don't know.
But I'm sure he was not afraidto dig deep because it shows in
his work.
He authenticates it with suchrealism, man.
You know, in that sense, givesyou an education about the
(34:56):
underworld, you know, and theItalian mafia phenomenon uh in a
way that no one has been able tomatch, in my opinion.
So it's the same thing.
So you find a subject matter.
Like look at Woody Allen, hechampions the neurosis, right?
He makes you laugh over theseneurotic quirks and his, you
know, his fascination or fear ofdeath.
And he makes it funny, you know.
(35:17):
He you know there's a patternwith some of these filmmakers in
the way they write things thatyou feel may be kind of close to
home or they may deny it.
Who knows?
But I think it's important tostart from an honest place,
marry it to your creativeability, and bring other people
on board that can helpaccentuate that so that the
experience is authentic.
It's not contrived, it's comingfrom a real place, you know.
(35:41):
And then, you know, ideally, youyou know, you can also, you
know, you want to entertainpeople too.
So I think that's important toremember that there's certain
formulas that have to run tandemwith that truth that make the
audience want to see what'sgoing to happen next.
There's definitely a a formulathat doesn't have to diminish
the artistic aspect of the ofthe of the of the piece, you
(36:04):
know, that can work with it.
It's just real it that's thetrick, man, which is you know,
Bert, I remember Bert Lancasterand Kirk Douglas had an argument
about this.
There was an interview withthem.
And Kirk Douglas said, it's notour responsibility to consider
the social significance of whatwe communicate in these films.
We're just there to entertain.
(36:25):
And Bert Lancaster said, No, Idisagree.
It is our responsibility asartists and celebrities or
performers to communicate amessage that speaks to the
people that can change lives.
So they were arguing.
One was saying, no, we're justentertainers, we're not here,
we're not messiahs, we're notprophets.
And Bert Lancaster's take on itwas very different.
He saw a responsibility not justto entertain, but to be true in
(36:49):
the world.
SPEAKER_02 (36:50):
Right.
Yeah, very interesting.
I I have two closer questionsfor you.
I know we've been talking aboutmovies and everything.
I'm curious to know what arejust some of your favorite
films, just in general, and thenif you had any other upcoming
projects to promote.
SPEAKER_00 (37:11):
Okay.
Three films come to mind.
It could simply be coming ofage, but they were also, in my
opinion, they were great films.
American Graffiti.
SPEAKER_02 (37:22):
Great movie.
SPEAKER_00 (37:23):
The Exorcist, William Freaking, big William
Freakin fan, and The PoseidonAdventure, where three uh with
you know, starring Gene Hackman,Ernest.
Star Studded Cast won manyawards.
I when I think Academy Awardsmeant something, you know?
SPEAKER_02 (37:38):
Right, right.
No, no, you're right.
You're right.
SPEAKER_00 (37:44):
Um, but uh so yeah, so the Poseidon venture to me
was a rare, one of these raresituations where you combine the
action element.
Irvin Allen was able to combinethe action with this religious
or seemingly spiritual allegoryof the ship going upside down
and this priest, Gene Hackman,having to lead the small group
(38:05):
of people through the sh bowelsof the ship to get to the top,
which was actually the bottom.
unknown (38:10):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (38:11):
Everybody who was on top commanding the ship was
underneath now.
And to me, I see the movie as aspiritual allegory for mankind,
like this huge event, you know,a comet or the uh a tsunami, a
tidal wave hits humanity and itflips it upside down.
And you have the messianicprophet who's telling the
people, look, if we stay here,we're gonna die, we're gonna
sink deeper and deeper into theocean.
(38:32):
If you want to get out andsurvive, you have to fight your
way up and out.
And the argument was that no, wehave to sit here and wait till
help arrives.
This man knows nothing of theworkings of the ship, you know,
and argued, and Gene Hackhamcalled him a pompous ass and
said, You you guys are gonna thewater's gonna be keep filling up
into the ship and you're gonnasink deeper and deeper, which to
(38:53):
me is like mankind falling intoDante's inferno.
SPEAKER_02 (38:57):
Exactly.
SPEAKER_00 (38:58):
And there's an opportunity to fight your way up
out of, you know, like Miltonsaid, long as the way and out of
hell leads up to light.
So we got to fight our way toget out.
And so I thought the movie wasprofound in its ability to
communicate the literature in away that wasn't preachy.
But if you look real closely andhave any kind of background in
theology, you understand thatthe writers were definitely
(39:21):
cleverly in you know, suggestingthese, these, this moral dynamic
and spiritual dynamic.
And then American Maffiti, themusic alone was enough to hook
me.
The cars were like each car, youknow, John Milner and his deuce
coupe, you know, the yellowdeuce coupe.
(39:41):
Chevy, you know, uh it's seeminga time of innocence, you know,
in America, uh, you know, rightyou know, when before the that
tsunami and you know, LosAngeles became a kind of bizarre
place in the 70s after the 60s,you know, revolution uh
revolution.
But right prior to that, becauseI think that movie, because the
movie's, I think, tagline iswhere were you in 62?
(40:04):
So it speaks to a time ofinnocence, maybe that never even
existed, who knows?
Where America seemed to have avitality in the way that it
communicated itself, you know,visually.
And then Lucas did a brilliantjob with the sound design and
the color scheme and thismake-believe world that almost
(40:25):
seemed real.
And you wanted to get you wantedto go to that place and ride up
and down the strip in those carsand hang out with the guys and
talk to the girls and listen tothese classic, this classic
duo-op music, man.
That's perennial.
And then The Exorcist, I mean,like, I don't know, man.
William Freakin's ability toconjure the devil in a way so
(40:47):
realistically, because the moviemoves functions more like a
drama, I think, than it does amovie that's classified as
horror.
And William and Alan Berson'sperformance, Linda Blair, Max
von Siddao, the young priest ofall the actors in this film were
brilliant.
And the way it was put together,and even I think Alan Burston
(41:10):
was interviewed about that filmand said that some bizarre
things happened when they weremaking that film, that there
were these tragic deathsthroughout the production, and
she wondered if they wereconjuring something, you know,
uh that might have been a littlebit dangerous in terms of the
occult.
And so I was always fascinatedby her story and how the movie
impacted my life, and so manypeople who had never seen
(41:33):
anything like that in the 70s.
And, you know, it's a if youlook on YouTube, you can see
videos of people actually beingescorted out of the theater
because they were vomiting,having panic attacks, anxiety
attacks because you know, Ithink America, 1970s, America,
and its social conscience andits innocence was a little bit
(41:54):
more on its sleeve, more.
It wasn't because I don't thinkwe were so desensitized yet.
And to witness something asbizarre as the Ectrosis is so
extreme.
This idea of innocence beingraped and captured by evil was
so well orchestrated.
And even with the limitations ofthe physics of makeup and
(42:16):
science, they still didincredible, incredible practical
effects, man.
To this day, when I look at themand I consider the performances
married to the effect, it'sstill unsettling to watch, I
think.
If you look at it mechanicallyand you don't consider the
spiritual element that's movingthrough the movie, then you'll
discount it as a substandard,you know, schlocky special
(42:39):
effects.
And but I don't look at it thatway.
And so that movie changed mylife in that regard.
And yeah, so those three films,definitely.
SPEAKER_02 (42:48):
Awesome, awesome.
And if you had any otherupcoming projects to promote,
I'm gonna be selfish.
SPEAKER_00 (42:57):
Um I have my own project that I wrote, directed,
and played the lead in calledAmerican Trash.
It's a social commentary aboutwhere we are as a culture,
specifically in the geography ofLos Angeles, the apathy that
seems to be the rination of oursociety, the pollution that is
(43:18):
destroying the natural habitat,and the issue of PTSD that men
deal with when they come backfrom the war.
I created several pull-throughlines in my story titled America
Trash, which is an attempt tobring the 1960s spirit into the
21st century and introduce thepossibility that even with all
(43:41):
this conflict going on, thatpeople can still come together
in a community of love and carefor somebody who's struggling
with loss or mental illness andlove one another, help each
other through a very challengingtime.
SPEAKER_02 (43:59):
I think that's very
SPEAKER_00 (44:00):
powerful that's that's a very an a awesome thing
to to do so that's you know I II I I'm in post-production now
and my editor Anthony Espina isvery talented.
He's scoring the film, editingit.
I've got a colorist so longstory short we're in
post-production.
Hopefully at some point nextyear, you know I'll it'll find
(44:21):
its home proper distributionplatform and I can share my opus
with people who maybe might findthe story engaging and
entertaining.
Because I needed to it had tocome out, you know definitely.
I needed to just like you weretalking earlier about your
(44:42):
collaboration it just it bubblesup on you after a while and
you're just like I've got to andit after a while you don't even
have to write how did you writethis I didn't write it.
It's been living with it's beenin it's been in me for years.
It's you know I just needed tofinally muster up the conviction
to write to to sit down andfocus and it just wrote itself
you know exactly sitting in mycar one day looking out at the
(45:06):
PCH looking out at the PacificOcean and enjoying this
incredible view and I watchedthis family get in their very
expensive SUV and they werethrowing trash on the ground
after they'd wiped their wipedtheir feet off and I remember
thinking what would happen ifsome flower childs you know from
the 1960s showed up and said heyexcuse me guys would you mind
picking up your trash before youleave what would happen how
(45:29):
would the father the mother howwould the how would that those
kids respond to this woman'saffection for Mother Earth and
her being appalled in a politeway that they were so
desensitized that they werebasically divorcing themselves
from the very thing that theyare that they came from earth
they earth you know we're allfrom earth right we're all been
(45:52):
you know we've been born intofamilies but we are come out of
the earth the way a flower comesout of you know a plant comes
out of the ground we also havebeen sprouted from the earth
right so this idea that we candivorce ourselves just ask the
American Indians that we asso-called you know modern man
can divorce himself bysuperimposing a technological
(46:14):
matrix over the real world is afallacy and it's destroying us
man and so I wanted to create anarchetype in a female that would
communicate the glory or thelove of the planet itself and
remind people in a very politeloving you know considerate way
hey man wake up like we have toswim in that water let's stop
(46:36):
polluting our well springs let'sstop cutting our trees down
let's stop destroying the veryhome that we live in why are we
doing this?
So I raised the question youknow in a in a sort of
controversial way.
I won't tell you what that isright now but I needed you know
there has to be an element Iwon't call it a gimmick I would
say there has to be acontroversial element to move it
(46:58):
along because these days youhave to know your audience right
as my activities used to say tome and my managers to say to me
so there are certain things Ihad to conjure to get and drive
the point home and even if theydon't understand the point
they're looking at the personthat's communicating the point
because of what they think thatperson represents an infamy you
(47:20):
know right and I I'm nostrangers to infamy because I'm
what the bad guy right accordingto certain observations I am the
outlaw right I'm the the monsterI'm the devil I'm you know the
guy that comes to do a killingyou know so or be killed or you
know usually situations ofviolence right and it's cool man
like I'm I'm not tripping on it.
(47:41):
I I think it's fun it's not youknow it's it is what it is.
So I think if I'm going toutilize the very exploits that
have been used to put me infront of the people why not take
that formula and utilize it inmy own way you know and marry it
to something that they havenever conceived of writing for
me.
SPEAKER_02 (47:59):
I'll write it myself you know I think that's awesome
and I I agree with all thepoints that you know you brought
up that are in are in the filmI'm I'm very excited to check it
out as soon as it's released.
Absolutely I mean again you knowI'm a huge fan I we we we we we
(48:23):
we only touched the uh the tipof of the iceberg you know with
with every everything that I Iwant to talk to you about so
yeah forgive me if I didn'tallow you enough time to no no
no no that this this has beenexactly what I was hoping for we
in fact better than what I washoping for so it's it just just
(48:46):
leaves you know more room foryou know round two round two
three four five you know glad tohear that cool absolutely and I
just want to let you know I diduh send you a friend request oh
on Facebook okay so I I you knowI know you're you're pretty
(49:07):
pretty busy on there you're notthat busy man it's Sunday i mean
that's it's it's it's just it'sit's just push pushing a button
that's all it is it's not thathard okay okay thank you for
letting me know so I'll I'lllook and then I'll press the
button and we're good to go.
Awesome awesome well Rob it ithas been a pleasure talking with
you thank you so I I honestlycannot wait to to do round two
(49:29):
i'll have a little bit of anissue with editing right now
trying to get it resolved withhiring some more editors as soon
as it's posted and I'll send youa link.
Thank you sir appreciate thatit's it's just been a pleasure
talking with you.
It's the same here Matt I youknow you know same here make you
happen you make me happen it'syou know it's exactly exactly
(49:53):
yeah I get it yeah awesomeawesome have a have a great rest
of your weekend happy holidayshave a good Thanksgiving and I
look forward to talking with yousoon you as well brother awesome
thank you so much what's up allmy fishes in the sea thanks
again for tuning in and forbeing a subscriber your
(50:15):
continued support means a lot Iwant to let all my guppies in
the sea know you can nowpurchase custom fishbowl merch
by DMing me Samfish on Instagramat thefishbull88 or on Facebook
at the fishbowl get hooked onyours today we have custom
t-shirts mugs pens handbags hatsbeanies hoodies everything to
(50:39):
make you the coolest lookingfish in the sea and if that's
not enough I am now acceptingearly access subscribers on my
BuzzFrout website that's rightyou can subscribe for early
access to the Fish Fool'scontent as well as I am
accepting donations to help keepthe show going.
Again your support means themost it's the most important
(51:01):
fishes in the sea to keep theunit going.
Thanks again y'all and keeptuning in and let's all keep
swimming upstream
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