February 4, 2026 • 53 mins
Salesforce demand dropped 37% in 2024, but the 2026 recovery is already leaving "average" Admins behind. Are you catching the wave, or getting crushed by the coral?
In this episode of The Hiring Edge, host Josh Matthews and 27x Certified Architect Scott Stafford break down the "75% Delta of Pain" currently hitting the ecosystem. We move past the Reddit rants and look at the actual data: who is getting hired, who is getting $25k premiums, and why "manual configuration" is a career dead-end.
Key Insights for your 2026 Career Plan:
- The Surfing Strategy: Why you must match the speed of the AI wave before it hits you.
- The "Jimmy" Trap: How a negative mindset is costing professionals more opportunities than the economy is.
- The Premium Pivot: Why RevCloud, CPQ, and MuleSoft are the "safe havens" for $150k+ roles right now.
- AI Orchestration: Moving from "builder" to "architect" in the age of Agentforce.
Featured Guest: Scott Stafford, 27x Certified Salesforce Architect.
Stop guessing about your career. Listen now to get the 2026 Talent Roadmap.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Matthews (00:00):
Welcome to the Hiring Edge, the podcast helping
leaders navigate the age of AI,create teams that thrive, and
build a workplace people neverwant to leave.
My name is Josh Matthews.
I'm your host.
And today with me I have ScottStafford.
Scott Stafford, 27X certifiedSalesforce professional.
He's a certified architect.
He's a friend of mine.
He's deeply involved in theecosystem.
(00:20):
We appreciate you, Scott, beinghere today.
He's going to help me with alittle bit of the flow of this
and hopefully keep me a littlebit grounded.
What's the job market like?
This is going to be great.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, it's it's a big deal,right?
Um, I got invited by SalesforceBen to contribute to a sort of
2026 talent update article.
I think that was released lastFriday, sort of third week of
(00:43):
January.
So definitely check that out.
There's a lot of very brightpeople contributed to that
knowledge base.
What we're gonna do today isgonna kind of capitalize on that
a little bit, but I'm not gonnareally not gonna go over too
much of what I shared on there.
People are wanting tounderstand what's gonna happen
in my career this year.
Like, is my job safe?
(01:05):
Or I can't find a job.
How am I going to find one?
Or I'm struggling to figure outwhat to do with my team.
It's either bloated or it'sunderstaffed.
How do we solve that problem?
Now, about a year ago, well,it's really probably exactly a
year ago, um, I produced anarticle.
It did quite well, and theywere my predictions for what we
(01:28):
can expect in the next one tothree years from a hiring and
employment standpoint in theecosystem, specifically how is
AI going to impact the jobmarket.
And I'm gonna give you thequick, uh, the quick, easy
insight is this is everythingthat I said, a lot of what I
said was kind of spot on, butthe most salient points were
(01:51):
that things have accelerated ata rate uh probably two to three
times faster than predicted.
Right.
So right now, somewhere around92% of software developers are
utilizing AI.
My prediction was that wasgonna, it was gonna hit that
number by the end of uh 2028,right?
So I really missed the mark.
(02:12):
And, you know, I don't know ifthat's a good thing or not.
I've never been big intopredictions.
But what I did do is I tappedinto over 150 sources to try and
get the best, most reliabledata around the state of the
market.
And so I want to go over, Iwant to go over some of that
information, specifically what'sthe state of the job market
(02:34):
right now.
Like, are we in job recoverymode?
Are we in like ecosystemrecovery mode?
Because not everybody feelsthat, right?
Scott, I mean, you're onLinkedIn, you've got a lot of
followers.
You hear the rumblings, it'smore like grumblings from the
marketplace.
There are a lot of people outthere that are so frustrated.
(02:55):
Man, they're so uh uhdisappointed.
They thought, you know, I'mgonna get this cert, and then
I'm gonna make 90 grand a year,and I'm not gonna pump gas
anymore.
And they're still pumping gas,and they want to know what
happened.
Well, I can tell you whathappened.
First of all, uh job postingsdeclined by about third, I think
(03:17):
we had like a global demanddrop in 2024.
Global demand for Salesforceprofessionals dropped by 37%.
That was just in 2024.
Okay, that's 2024.
Scott Stafford (03:30):
That's a lot.
Josh Matthews (03:31):
Yeah, it's a lot.
And it was, it was about thesame or more in 23, right?
Everyone remembers the $10,000,or not $10,000, $10,000 million
dollar bucks, 10,000 personlayoff of Salesforce around
Christmas of, I think it's, arewe going back to 24?
Is that 23?
I can't even remember now.
It's three years ago.
So yeah, 23.
(03:52):
So Christmas of 22.
That uh was like a kick in thegut.
And a lot of people nevercaught their breath after that.
They got the wind knocked outof them, and the wind stayed
knocked out of them.
Okay.
So we have some good newsaround global demand recovery.
It is actually up 37%.
Sorry, it's up 8% year overyear.
Scott Stafford (04:13):
I was pretty impressed with that 38%.
I was like, okay, that's somereally good news, Josh.
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I know, right?
Kind of crazy.
Speaker (04:20):
But I'm not sure that everybody's feeling that 8%.
There's just so much happening,right, in the space, right?
And you might hear thosestatistics, but you also want to
know how does it affect likeme, right?
I'm still looking for a job.
And though it's not 38%, buteven 8%, you're just sometimes
people aren't feeling that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well, 8% is nothing, right?
I mean, 8% is a 25% correctionagainst uh a 37% drop-off or 30%
correction.
Not even a 30% correction.
You see what I mean?
So have the 75% delta of pain.
Speaker (04:56):
That makes sense.
I mean, I think that's whatpeople are really feeling.
We're still quite a bit downfrom where we wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
By the way, look, the reality is not everyone's
feeling it.
Some people are thriving rightnow.
In this conversation, Scott,what I'm not gonna do is I'm not
gonna sugarcoat what theelephant in the room is.
I'm not gonna sugarcoat whatthe reality is for a lot of
people, but I'm also not goingto be a doomsayer.
You know, this is not a doomand gloom conversation.
It's like, oh no, all is lost,right?
(05:23):
It that's not the case.
So, our goal here is to reallyjust help people understand
what's going on with theecosystem in general and more
specifically, what can they doabout it?
Because look, I've got allthese numbers, and you guys can
run your own LLM and AIsearches, and you guys can dig
in to whatever it is that youneed to dig into.
Um, if you're moderately goodat prompting and you've got
(05:46):
access to some decent LLMs likeperplexity, deep research, and
that kind of stuff, you can findthis stuff out the same way I
do, right?
I'm just one guy.
So I have my take on themarket, and I have my actual
interface with my clients, myinterface with the candidates
and the ecosystem.
But I have to research thisstuff, or else I, you know, all
you're gonna hear is JoshMatthews' perspective.
(06:07):
And look, it's not a badperspective, but it's just a
single perspective.
And I want to give everybody areal clear vision of what they
can expect.
So here's what's dying rightnow.
And everybody knows it.
Like, this isn't gonna be ashock.
Here's what's dying.
Manual configuration tasks,right?
That's dying.
Entry-level support roles.
Speaker (06:28):
I mean, even the admins, they've seen their role
change so much over the lastyear.
I mean, you're no longer doingright what you used to be doing
just just even nine months ago,right?
There's so many new tools.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And why would you?
You don't have to.
Like, why would you be doingthe same stuff?
You know, it makes no sense.
I'm not running my company thesame way that I did two, three
years ago.
Why would I?
I have fewer staff and I getmore done with AI, right?
But we're gonna talk aboutthat.
We're gonna talk about what youcan actually do to protect
that.
So manual configuration tests,basic cred operations,
(07:04):
entry-level support roles, thoseare kind of going away, right?
That doesn't mean that therearen't entry-level
opportunities.
Just remember, I saidentry-level support roles.
So the support roles are goingaway.
We saw that back in the summerwhen Salesforce laid off 4,000
people in India in their supportdepartment.
Everybody lost their freakingmind.
(07:25):
I mean, they really lost it.
But hold on, Scott, hold on.
Hold on, hold on, Scott.
The reality is, is when thathappened, people lost their
mind.
But what they forgot is thatthey'd hired 7,000 people within
the prior three, four years.
Right.
And so there's there can bethis really um, you know, when
you're just looking at a singledata point, it can really kind
of mess you up.
This is what happens if youonly watch Fox or only watch
(07:47):
MSNBC.
Yeah.
Like you're gonna get a just asingle point of view, and you're
gonna start to kind of ideatein a single um, you know, with a
sort of a single paradigm.
You gotta get out of that,guys.
And I I just want to saysomething real quick.
I am constantly running intopeople who are AI resistant.
(08:10):
You've met these people, Scott?
Speaker (08:13):
Yeah, I actually have a lot.
And the weird part is I thinkit's just because they're
afraid.
I mean, it's not that theydon't actually find technology
interesting.
They just saw something new andare really wondering what is
that going to do to society?
They're frozen.
They're listening to Fox orCNN, but they're not pulling
(08:33):
back and say, hey, what do Ineed to do now?
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because look, here's thereality.
We have an AI wave.
I used to surf a lot back inthe day.
And for those of you who'venever surfed before, the one
thing that you have to do is youhave to be going pretty darn
close to the speed of the wavethat you're trying to catch.
If you're gonna catch a wavelike 40, 50 foot wave like Jaws
(08:59):
out in uh Maui, uh, yougenerally need a ski toe, you
know, a jet ski, right?
If you don't, one of two thingshappen.
The first thing that happens ifyou don't go fast enough is you
miss the wave.
You don't catch it.
That sucks.
Okay.
The other thing that happens isyou could get the wind knocked
(09:21):
out of you, you could be scrapedon the coral down below.
If you don't want to get caughtinside without actually
catching the wave, that'sdangerous.
But if you paddle hard enoughearly enough, and then you you
catch the wave, you're cruising,man.
Now you're just making littleadjustments.
I'm gonna slow it down so I cantube.
(09:41):
I'm gonna lean forward so I cancatch some speed so that I can
catch the next wave and link acouple waves in a row.
If you're really offshore, youcan do that.
Speaker (09:50):
I love that analogy.
I mean, because I think that'swhat people are feeling.
I mean, you see the opportunityout there, but people want to
make sure that they understandwhat to do, right?
How do you catch that wave?
I mean, how do you get in thereand do the right things, right?
There's so many places whereyou think, hey, do I do this
boot camp?
Do I do that?
Right.
(10:11):
How do I make sure that I'mgetting the speed right and
catching this wave?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
That's right.
Well, the first thing that youdo is you make a plan.
And I we can have a whole othershow on exactly how to do this.
First, I just want to startwith the mindset, right?
So, right now, I'm just gonnagive you my overall thinking
about what happens in 2026.
It's gonna be a little weird.
Hiring is taking longer.
There are fewer hires beingmade, there's still demand for
(10:38):
hiring.
So, what does that mean to you?
Look, the reality is mostpeople can actually get a job if
they have the right skill set,the right resume, they can
interview and they can bringenough value.
They're generally finding a jobwithin 60 days.
Okay.
If people are taking sixmonths, 18 months, then there's
something wrong.
(10:59):
There's something wrong withtheir resume, their LinkedIn
profile, their phone voice,their ability to have a
conversation, their ability toconvey and articulate their
talent or their value, orthey're looking in the wrong
place, or they're not tryinghard enough.
I know some people are going tobe like, what are you talking
about, Josh?
I've been applying to, I signedup for this thing and it
submits me to 200 jobs everysingle week, and it costs me
(11:22):
$500, and I still don't have ajob.
It's like, well, this is whereyou put your trust in the wrong
AI.
Right.
Speaker (11:30):
Yeah.
Well, that that would be a lotof resumes.
200 and you're not gettingsomething, you better read the
writing on the wall that youneed to do.
So that's different.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a whole other topic, but honest to God, man,
that's just a this whole otherweird thing that's happening
with AI trying to capitalize andhelp people get jobs through uh
automatic one-click umapplications.
I would avoid those.
Okay.
Okay.
You're gonna like I alreadyhave developed GPTs and software
to screen those.
(11:58):
So that means that if you thinkyou can just you can't just
outsource your careerdevelopment any more than you
can outsource your um, you know,landing a new job.
Good luck with that.
But what you can do is you canaugment it.
You can augment it utilizingAI, you can augment it working
with professionals thatspecialize in helping people
(12:20):
land jobs.
You know, you definitely wantto screen those people as though
you're hiring them as anemployee, make sure that they're
actually good at what they doand get references, things like
that.
But this is not a career showabout um what to do if you've,
you know, you can't find work.
There's a hundred hours ofprogramming from this show that
you can go dig in and uh talkabout it ad nauseum.
(12:40):
I want to stay focused on 26,okay?
So here's the reality uh skillsthat command premiums right
now.
People are often asking that,like, hey, what certs should I
get?
Right?
Where should I be focusing uhmy attention?
CPQ experience, revenue cloudexperience, mule soft uh and
(13:02):
APIs and marketing cloud, you'regonna get anywhere from sort of
$10,000 to $25,000 more forthat specialty, right?
So it's going and getting thecert, that's a good place to
start.
But the reality is you need tohave exposure to it.
You need to know how to do thisstuff.
So you can do that either bybeing in a company that you know
(13:24):
already has that technology andthen trying to ingratiate
yourself and start to learn itand use it.
You can do it through bootcamps, things like that.
That's a way.
I don't think it's the most,but I don't think it's the best
way.
But these are the skills thatare commanding premiums right
now.
But there's a skill that uhsort of circumvents all of
these, like, hey Josh, what certdo I need?
(13:45):
Right.
And that is AI competency forone.
That's number one.
Speaker (13:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
And then there's this other thing, right?
Because the reality is isadmins are becoming more like um
orchestrators, right?
They're orchestrating AI tosolve problems at scale.
I think I talked about lastyear project managers were
likely to see a anywhere from a50 to 70 percent um reduction in
(14:13):
PMs who haven't adopted AI.
And why is that?
Well, the $4 million projectthat used to have two or three
PMs now needs one, right?
Or the PM that was managing twoprojects, now they can take on
five or six projects becausethey can automate a lot of the
scheduling stuff and you know, alot of you know, just even just
(14:34):
basic LLM stuff and writing.
They can just do more withless, right?
So it's it's the same ideahere, right?
You've got to be able to takeon more work, but be more
efficient at it.
But the biggest thing is thatanytime we have like a massive
influx of like a new technology,something that's going to
(14:56):
improve uh you know taskautomation, um low barrier entry
level, repetitive tasks, Scott.
Right?
What happens when they when AItakes that from the workforce,
then it maximizes the need tostand out as supremely human.
Speaker (15:22):
I love that though.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay.
Speaker (15:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean in a weird waythough, that's actually a good
thing.
I mean, that is what peoplewant, is we want, right, the
opportunity to be more human, tobe more genuine, to be more
authentic, right?
But at the same time, you know,you you have to become
efficient as an orchestratorwith all the tools to allow
(15:47):
yourself, right, the opportunityto make those deeper
connections, to be able to havemore insight.
But I totally agree with whatyou're saying.
People are asking more, right?
Employers are looking for moreand more um value, right, for
per employee, right?
And then they're also beingasked to provide a higher level
(16:08):
of service.
So yeah, that's dead on.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
And it's it's that human, it'sthat human connection, right?
So it's a high level ofservice, yes.
But really, it's that deep,deep, deep human connection and
that human mind to be able tofigure out business problems, to
figure out strategy.
And you can add, like, I don'tknow about you, but I'll ask AI
(16:32):
to do some things for me.
I had MANIS going through about25, 30, 3,500 uh account
records, right?
All I wanted it to do wasfigure out if these companies
are still open or under adifferent moniker from four
years ago when they were addedto my database.
Man, that thing ran for 24hours, cost me like 30,000
(16:54):
credits, and produced nothing.
Every time I got within like200 um records of it being like
ready, it would say, Oh, I lostthe sandbox.
You know, like it just became,it was like a nightmare, right?
So, like, what's that mean tome?
Does it mean Manaus is bad?
No, it means that I set it upfor failure, right?
I should have just put in onebatch of 500 at a time instead
(17:17):
of telling it to batch it forme.
Like, okay, lesson learned,right?
So, you know, we've got tolearn those things and we learn
it through pain, we learn itthrough hard knocks, and we
learn it by trying.
But if you're not trying atall, you're not gonna learn it.
And if you're not learning it,you can't talk about what you
learned in a job interview.
So good luck with that.
Have fun with that.
Next time you get interviewed,you're like, uh bleep bleep
(17:38):
blee, I don't know, right?
So, you know, you just gottakind of like be vulnerable here.
But back to the human side.
I'm really not at this point,clearly, I'm not really looking
at my notes.
I don't think I have been.
But I want to talk about whatthat means.
Speaker (17:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So um Jimmy gets a job in in 2020, or let's say
2022, and Jimmy's an admin.
All right.
So he goes to work, he does histhing, he does all of his admin
stuff.
Then he finds out, you know, umafter uh a few years, he can
start to lean into the LLMs andthis kind of thing.
(18:19):
Um, but he's not into it, he'snot really down with that.
He just wants to keep doingwhat he's doing.
But then AI hit.
Like, and it hit hard.
And he he was started to bemore started to be asked of him,
right?
He started to get scared, hestarted to get a little bit
(18:39):
nervous.
He wanted to settle his nervoussystem down a little bit.
So, what does Jimmy do?
He jumps on LinkedIn, he jumpson Reddit and starts talking
about his fears in a public way,and people are listening.
He starts to get a bunch offollowers now that he's talking
about fears of like hey, Benioffsaid, you know, redu this about
(19:02):
reducing headcount.
All of a sudden, he's popular.
He's getting some attention.
He feels really valuable.
Oh, this needs to be heard.
Like, I've got a voice in theecosystem.
I'm really going to expressmyself now.
What he's doing isn't actuallyimproving his career.
It's scratching an itch.
It's helping him feelsignificant because he's not
(19:24):
feeling so significant at workanymore.
He's feeling afraid for hiscareer.
Does that make sense?
Speaker (19:30):
Yeah.
I think what you're reallylearning in, right, is fear,
right, breaks down love, breaksdown movement, right?
It can solve a need, right?
You see that a lot of times onyou know, different Fox or
whatever.
They sell fear.
But everybody sells fear.
It's not just Fox.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Everybody sells fear, Scott.
So let's get real about that.
Speaker (19:51):
So much opportunity out there, right?
What you want to do is youdon't want to get afraid of it.
You don't want to actually takeother people down, but you want
to actually be optimistic aboutthe opportunity and lean in
that way for yourself, right?
And it it's it's a hard, it's amindset, right?
If you wake up in the morning,you say, How am I gonna look at
this cup?
Right.
I mean, to be honest, everybodyalways says, right, hey,
(20:13):
whenever you have a lot oftransition, there's incredible
opportunity, but then there's alot of change and some people
get afraid.
But if you lean in, you'regonna be able to start paddling
and catch that wave that yousaid.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
And you're gonna takeadvantage.
You don't want to be on thebeach, I can tell you that.
And you don't want to be underthe wave.
Like neither of those are good.
But I'm seeing this a lot.
This Jimmy's story.
Jimmy's not a real person.
He's an amalgamation of about300 Salesforce pros that I'm
seeing.
And there are a lot of peoplethat listen to them.
There are a lot of, you know,hundreds of thousands, thousands
(20:44):
of people are listening.
Oh, you're so right.
Oh, you're so right.
You're getting distracted.
Okay.
You're getting distracted bysomething that is making you
feel safe temporarily, bysomething that's making you feel
good temporarily.
These people actually knew whatwas best for your career,
they'd be giving you muchdifferent information.
Okay.
So if you see anything wherethey're bitching about layoffs
(21:06):
or complaining about this, justbe aware.
Just I want you to, in yourmind, go, is this this is what
Josh told me about.
I need to turn this off.
And I want every time I hearsomeone, like I just saw the
other day, information wasleaked that uh Amazon's gonna
lay off 30,000 operationalpeople.
(21:27):
30,000 people, man.
Well, you can start flippingyour lid and losing your mind,
but it's not like people haven'tbeen talking about this for two
freaking years, right?
So I think number one, don'tact surprised when you hear
about layoffs.
Two, don't be terrified whenyou hear about layoffs.
If you're not like happiness iswhen expectations meet reality
(21:48):
meets expectations.
So let's set your reality here.
There's gonna be a lot ofthere's gonna be a lot of
layoffs.
Okay.
There's gonna be a lot oflayoffs in 2026.
That's just, of course, you'regonna see.
Artists are getting laid off.
Support people are getting laidoff.
I know, oh, but Salesforce, youknow, Agent Force Service Cloud
sucks.
And it's not, whatever.
(22:09):
Get over it.
Okay.
They're getting, it's gonna getbetter exponentially.
Everybody calm down, right?
It's the reality.
So, what are you gonna do aboutit?
People, you have got to, for2026, here's what I want you to
do.
I want you to, one, recognizethe fear articles.
They want likes, it feeds theirego, it drives sales for their
(22:32):
boot camp.
It drives sales for, you know,whatever consulting they're
selling you.
It drives sales for theirlittle $400 a month, AI this, AI
that.
Okay.
Don't get left behind.
Sign up now.
Okay.
The reality is, is they're notwrong.
You will get left behind.
I don't know if you should signup now, though, but but you
(22:52):
will get you will get leftbehind.
Instead, when you hear that, Iwant you to think this is normal
for the world we're in rightnow.
Get comfortable with it.
Don't want anybody to besurprised anymore.
It's not 2022.
So can we move on?
Okay.
It's like someone who'scomplaining about, you know,
their ex-husband from 30 yearsago.
(23:13):
It's like, get over it.
Okay.
Like, time to move on.
Speaker (23:16):
When you recognize it, shouldn't you also keep yourself
a little bit away from it?
I mean, I think it's it's wiseto see the articles and I
recognize them.
And then I actually unpurposelydon't digest it because I am
conscious of what I put into tomy body, to my mind.
And I'm like, I'm not gonna goon Reddit and read all this
Debbie Downer stuff, right?
I'm actually going and saying,hey, I see what's happening, but
(23:39):
there is opportunity.
Well, you're probably gonnatalk a lot about the jobs, you
know, that are changing, butthere's lots of new jobs that
are happening, right?
Right.
So talk a little bit about thatthough.
Once you recognize it, how muchof it should you should you
ingest?
What when should you tellyourself, hey, that's enough?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, look, I I think I think um a headline is enough
to know like, yeah, I don'treally need to get into that.
Now it doesn't, it makes senseto understand what's going on in
the market, right?
Like I digest some of thisstuff.
What I don't do is, and I trynot to, because I know how I am.
If I start diving into all thecomments, like I'll see an
(24:18):
article or a post and I'll belike, this is just such drivel.
Like there's a billionaire thatis making you believe in this
stuff somewhere, regardless ofthe side of the aisle that
you're on.
There's a billionaire behindit.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they want, they want you toclick on this stuff.
And they, if it's not youridea, then then you're being
used by the person who had theidea, right?
(24:40):
To be at their megaphone.
Right.
It's like all these people whoshow up at protests and they're
given a megaphone, and you'relike, hey, where are you from?
And they're like, hired actors,you know, like this stuff is
real.
So I just think that it'sreally important to just see it,
recognize it for what it is,and move on.
If you stay in your lane, youstay focused, I don't in your
lane, but if you stay focused onwhat can I do today?
(25:01):
Right.
Um, have I created a careerplan for myself?
All of this stuff, by the way,Scott, it really starts with
getting really good atprompting.
Okay.
So I know some people who areokay at prompting, and they've
taken my advice and done thisvery simple thing where you go
in and you say, okay, I want youto no fluff, rate, rank me on a
(25:26):
scale of 100.
Like, where do I sit in as faras you know, you know,
prompters?
Like, how are my promptingskills?
No fluff.
Gotta say that.
No fluff.
You can't hurt my feelings, behonest.
Okay.
And then by the way, tell mewhat I should do differently.
What can I do to get in the top5% of prompters?
So I've had people do this andthey come out and they're like,
(25:47):
Josh, I scored.
I'm in the top 20% ofprompters.
Speaker (25:50):
Well, that sounds good, but that's not necessarily that
great, right?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's it's not good at it's not good at all.
Because if you're in the top20% of prompters, um, that means
that, first of all, that meansthat you're probably in
technology.
Okay.
So it probably means you're inlike the bottom 50% of all
technologists.
So everything's relative.
Yeah.
Right?
It all it all matters.
(26:15):
So it doesn't matter what itcomes back and says.
You just want to say, I want tobe in the top 5%.
Create a lesson plan for mewhere I can learn how to do the
two or three things that aremost important that will get me
better results.
You know, some and by the way,LLMs won't always tell you this,
but like push back.
Yep.
(26:35):
How do you come up with that?
That doesn't make sense to me.
Oh, yeah, you're right, my bad.
Right.
I do this every day, all daylong.
Or I heard this one from afriend of mine at a group that I
go to um the other day, and hesaid, Yeah, I tell it to give me
uh an estimate on itsconfidence level with its
response for everything.
It's just a quick text, youknow, um, you know, like
(26:58):
shortcut, like drops it in onevery prompt.
And so it'll come back withthis information.
It'll speak very confidently.
Oh, this is how you want to dothat.
Go this and then do this.
And then confidence level, 77%.
unknown (27:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Then he's like, how come it's not a hundred?
It's like oh yeah, it'sactually 50%.
Here's why I forgot to lookthis up.
I forgot to do that.
I didn't do this.
Okay.
Come up with an answer thatyou're 90% sure of.
Speaker (27:25):
You have to learn, right, to use the tools, all the
tools, right?
You you use the tech tools inthe Salesforce ecosystem, but
then you you learn to use othertools, right?
Where there's more tools for usto learn, right?
And then we also have to learnto use ourselves as a tool, like
we were saying before, right?
Your mindset, be be rightintentional about what you
(27:45):
ingest and talk to yourselfpositively about like what
you're gonna do so that you canpaddle up really quick and ride
that wave.
That's right.
It's really important.
This is a really good advice.
I love this.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, it's good stuff, man.
All right, we've got a lot tocover and only 20 minutes left
or 15, 20 minutes left.
So I want to dive into this alittle bit more.
Okay.
Um, we've talked a little bitabout what's most valuable right
now from like, you know, thebig shift into like Rev Cloud,
marketing cloud.
This is where you're gonna seea little bit more money.
Um, the return on investmentquestion around uh what specific
(28:21):
certifications, look, uhplatform developers, certified
admins, admin cert path, youknow, boot camps, like these
sorts of things.
And the reality is I think thatanyone who's doing anything,
whether you're a developer, anadmin, architect, whatever,
where to spend your phone.
Look, you've got 27 certs,Scott.
I would bet you $1,000 that youhaven't actually had to use
(28:45):
every single one of them.
Would I be accurate?
That would be very accurate.
Okay, and I would make myself$1,000 very quickly if you
actually took that bet, whichyou're smart enough not to,
because you already know theanswer.
But but the reality here isthat getting uh certs is great,
but getting good atunderstanding how to communicate
your value, how to deliver goodbusiness insight, how to
(29:08):
orchestrate multiple AI uhplatforms together to work
together, how to create flowsand automations, that's where
your value is gonna be.
This isn't necessarily justabout, hey, Josh, I want to make
more money, what do I do?
This is more about like, hey, Idon't want to be left behind in
two years or by the end of theyear, I don't want to lose my
job.
I need to demonstrate to mycurrent employer that if I'm on
(29:31):
a team of 12 and they're gonnacut it down to seven or eight,
that it I should, it should beobvious that clearly I'm
definitely one of the ones thatthey want to keep.
Speaker (29:41):
Okay.
unknown (29:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Does that make sense?
So whether you're looking for ajob or here's the thing, Scott.
Whether you're looking for ajob or not, you should always be
looking, at least minimally, tokeep the job you've got.
Speaker (29:54):
Right.
unknown (29:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's different.
unknown (29:57):
Go ahead.
Speaker (29:58):
I'm hearing that a lot.
I mean, I've actually hadsomeone that called me up and
they said they were sat down by,you know, their CEO, and they
said, you are really good,right?
You know a lot abouttechnology.
You're a great developer, butwe're you're on notice here that
you need to offer more withyour human skills.
They said that we want youactually speaking up more.
(30:20):
We want you contributing moreto the strategy.
And they came to me and they'relike, scared.
What programs do I do?
And I said, Yeah, I think thegood part is that they didn't
just let you go, right?
They valued all of yourexperience, and now you have an
opportunity, right, to actuallystrengthen that.
I think you guys have probablyalready heard.
I always say that, hey, whatdifferentiates us, right?
(30:42):
We have machines here, right?
AI is a machine.
And what's different between AIand us?
And you would say, well, it'ssome of your human skills,
right?
It's your inspiration, it'syour wisdom, it's your insight,
and it's your heart.
So strengthen those.
And then also, right, make sureyou're peddling, right, and
keeping up to date with all thetechnology, right?
(31:03):
Now, you know, find which certsare gonna be of value, but also
complement that, understandingthat you're an orchestrator,
right?
You're gonna use all the tools,right?
But the human skills arebecoming really important.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah.
And look, I'm gonna, I'm justgonna plug my friend's um
training academy real quick.
It's um uh people first method.
That's John Klein's group.
Speaker (31:25):
He is incredible, right?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he's so good.
And and I've I've placed two ofhis graduates.
Um, it's he really knows howto, he's he's just got this very
special, in-tune talent um anda level of patience that doesn't
match mine.
You know, I'm like, just dothis, why not?
(31:48):
Just get it done.
Um, you know, he's verycompassionate, he's very
patient, um, and he's a veryunderstanding leader, and he
teaches people how to how to bethat, you know, in their own
careers, in the current jobs andthe jobs that hopefully they
they'll get someday.
Okay, a little bit more tocover.
I want to give some people somepractical, practical um advice
(32:08):
before we bogue out here, andthen I'm happy to answer any
questions that you might have.
We did not get any questions onour live show because I botched
the start and stop.
Sorry, people.
My bad.
Won't happen again.
I hope I didn't lose youforever.
Probably did, but I don't know.
We'll see.
Okay.
Speaker (32:25):
So uh I think with this content, right, and helping
people right to really adapt.
And you're I'm gonna ask you,right, for three right core
things that people should doright now.
Sure, you already said one ofthem, right?
That really just blew me away,right?
Make sure that you take care ofyour mindset and be conscious
of what you're ingesting.
But give people three tips,right, right now, the beginning
(32:48):
of 2026.
What would you do if you havebeen looking for a job for three
months and you're not gettingany traction?
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Okay.
Um first of all, uh accept thatholiday and January time is not
the best time for the jobmarket.
Right.
So a lot of people are like, ohyeah, I'm gonna start looking
for a job in the new year or,you know, after my kids are back
in school or right afterThanksgiving, things kind of
(33:18):
quiet down and I've got moretime.
I don't know if that's the bestidea, you know, because it's
quite quiet in the job market inthe Salesforce ecosystem until
mid-February, after after, youknow, after the February shuffle
at Salesforce.
A lot of clients are havingtheir budgeting meetings
throughout the month of January.
I know I've had a three jobsthat I was working on, all got
(33:41):
put on hold with a coupledifferent companies because of
that.
It's pretty normal.
It's not like I don't see itevery year.
It's pretty normal.
So just understand that one ofthe components might be the
timing.
The other thing that I'd say isyou want to take full
responsibility for what yourassets are, your LinkedIn
profile and your resume.
There are people out there whoare targeting 300, $300,000 and
$400,000 jobs.
(34:02):
And guess what?
They spent money on theirresume.
I interviewed a guy for athree, $400,000 job the other
day.
Kind of an old guy like me,like us.
And he was self-professed, uh,very good at AI, used AI to
create his resume.
(34:22):
His resume sucked.
Like it sucked garbage.
Um, it wasn't good.
And I told him straight up,like, I'd be happy to interview
you, but I'd need to see abetter resume first because I
couldn't even just float this tomy client.
It's not, you're you're noteven close to competitive with
the other candidates that I'mworking with.
So if you fall in love withyour resume, that's like falling
(34:44):
in love with your dog andthinking that your dog's the
most beautiful dog in the world.
Half of dogs are the ugliestdogs in the world.
Okay, so try to remember that.
By the way, we're getting a newpuppy.
I just put a deposit downyesterday, so I'm really
excited.
But um but but it's true, likehalf of dogs are the ugliest
half of dogs in all the world,right?
Do we have any tips for peopleto actually evaluate?
(35:05):
Hold on, I'm I'm I'm tellingyou, Scott, hold on a second.
So so what you need, yes, sowhat you need to do is you you
need to stop falling in lovewith what you've created, right?
And that means you need to geta second, third party opinion,
not from someone who loves you,from someone critical, right?
(35:26):
From someone very critical, andnot just AI.
Talk to someone who's a hiringmanager that you're friends
with, an old boss.
What do you think of this?
And you gotta tell them, like,be straight up with me.
Like, I don't want any fluff.
Don't kiss my ass.
Like, tell me, right?
Here's here's an idea.
Read it out loud.
If it sounds not good or notcompelling, then you've got a
(35:48):
problem.
Here's another thing.
Go look at other resumes ofpeople who've been hired or read
their LinkedIn profiles ofpeople who've been hired at the
kind of jobs that you want.
What do their LinkedIn profileslook like?
What does their about sectionsound like?
Right?
Like start comparison, but getout of your own head.
Usually people build something,develop it, and then they
wonder what's wrong and theydon't look at themselves.
(36:09):
It's you.
I'm just gonna tell you, ifyou're not getting a job right
now, it's you, okay?
It's not the market.
And that's gonna sting for alot of people.
Sometimes it's timing, but mostoften it's you.
You've chosen to not do certainthings that you should, not
write things that you should,not research things that you
should have, not change thingssoon enough that you could have,
(36:31):
or maybe you didn't conductyourself in a way that you
should have in past jobs, andnow you're the person who's got
six jobs in six years, andyou're wondering why people why
the phone's not ringing off thehook.
There's going to be some marketto that, like stuff to that,
but it doesn't matter.
You know, I really like thisidea that the world is an anvil
(36:51):
and experience is the hammer,and you're gonna get hit.
Like you're gonna get hit.
But man, if you analogy if youif you're not if you're not
getting sharper by all of thesesmacks in the face, by all of
these hammers that you're takingin the job market right now,
then you're not learning.
And you have to ask yourself,what is it about me?
(37:12):
What level of hubris, ego,self-protection, nervous system
protection?
What am I so afraid of if Iactually look at myself and say,
I've got a problem.
So you've got to get really,you've got to do two things.
You've got to be vulnerablewith yourself and look at
yourself in a really deep wayand say, how am I like
(37:34):
responsible for this?
And then gird yourself becauseyou're going to be faced with a
challenge.
And everybody's heard me saythis before.
A challenge is uh nothing's achallenge unless you seriously,
seriously want to quit it atsome point.
Okay.
So you've got to be willing togo through a little bit of hell.
(37:54):
It won't take too long, gothrough a little bit of hell.
Do things you don't want to do,be a little bit uncomfortable,
right?
And just not quit for a periodof time till things get easier.
So do that.
If you're anti-AI, get over it.
If you don't, you will screwyourself and everyone around
you.
And by the way, I'm just goingto appeal to your ego for a
(38:17):
minute.
You'll look like an idiot.
Okay.
You will look like an absolutemoron if you're like Mr.
Anti, Mr.
and Mrs.
Anti-AI, whether that's, oh,the data centers are killing the
environment, whatever.
You're going to have to getover it because this wave is not
stopping.
And by the way, AI is not goingto put you out of a job, but
people who know AI will.
Speaker (38:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's your biggest problem right now.
Does that make sense?
Speaker (38:43):
No.
I think also really what yousaid too, where you have to be
honest, right?
You have to be intentionalabout what you're ingesting,
right?
And then be honest withyourself.
Like if you're not getting ajob, like you were saying,
right?
Be honest and say, hey, maybe Ithink what I'm doing is right.
Go to somebody and say, hey,take this thing and rip this
apart.
Tell me what I could dodifferent, right?
Yeah.
I I actually got theopportunity that to get on the
(39:06):
call with you before you madethat decision.
And we both talked back andforth about 2026.
And we said, hey, what are wegoing to do?
And for me, I was actually notactually jogging as much.
And I said, I'm going to getout there.
And you said, Me, I'm not goingto do these things so I can
sleep.
And we both leaned in.
We both said, Hey, well, we'regoing to hold each other
accountable.
Right.
(39:26):
It was we were brutally honest,right?
On that call.
And it wasn't comfortable, butyou know, it made a difference.
So no.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
And you can get really comfortable with
discomfort over time.
You do it enough.
Speaker (39:39):
Yeah.
You know, it's just a goodfriend of mine, um, Anna Marie
Boss, always says, a little bitof suffering can become
addictive.
You can get used to, you know,that challenge, right?
And pushing through.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So that's right.
Absolutely.
Scott, let's do this.
I want to cover some basicthings and then I'll answer any
last questions that you mighthave.
Um, just real quick, MuleSoft,we've got almost 10,000 jobs
open on Indeed, Data Cloud, over185,000 jobs nationwide that
are citing data cloud right now.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
CPQ, right around a thousandjobs.
(40:12):
This is so much less than 22,but it's so much better than 24,
25.
So it's not, it's not bad.
They cover some quickdemographics.
Women, female developers, about28%, female admins, about half.
Um, and uh women who areremote, about 61% higher than
men.
That tracks.
I I mean that shouldn't shockanybody.
Um I do have people like, well,there should be 50% of female
(40:37):
developers.
It's like, no, there shouldn't.
Not any more than there shouldbe 50% of nurses should be male.
Um, men like things more thanwomen like things.
Developing is a thing-orientedthing.
Most women lean more towardspeople.
I actually spec to thecategory.
I'm I'm like a man who specsmore to the female interest,
(40:57):
human behavior, and people morethan most guys.
I'm less about things.
Um, so you know, you can crossover both sides, doesn't matter.
Um entry-level reality, uh,with the smallest percentage of
jobs out there, about 9% of jobpostings right now are for entry
level.
Um, there's also a massiveoversupply of entry-level
(41:19):
people.
So people are like, hey, Josh,I'm gonna get my certification
in admin.
I want to be an admin, I wantto do this.
What should I do?
And I'm just gonna tell youright now, just stop.
Just stop with your thinking.
Speaker (41:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Just slow down.
You want to get yourcertification, that's fine.
If you're banking on Salesforceas an entry-level admin, you're
probably gonna be um in for arude awakening.
I mean, you could always justlearn acting and go to Hollywood
and make yourself a movie starbecause it's not that different
than trying to do that rightnow.
It's difficult.
It's really difficult.
(41:51):
So if you're not bringing tothe table some other skill set
like you're, you know, dyed inthe wool over a nonprofit,
right?
Or you really understandmilitary and defense, or you've
got a secret clearance, or youknow, you came from an
engineering background, or youused to code C sharp and C, or
you know, something that's gonnagive you some sort of advantage
(42:14):
in the tech market.
I would say that there areother jobs you could do that are
going to be easier to get.
You know, you could also startyour own business on AI.
I mean, you we all hear thesestories like, oh, in four hours
I built a system that makes me$10,000 a month.
Okay.
That's not um everybody, by theway.
(42:34):
But getting really, really goodat that and having all the time
in the world, you you can doit.
You know, you you could do it.
So I'm just dissuading peoplewho have no idea what tech is
about picking Salesforce as thething that they want to get
into.
I'd pick AI in general.
If you want to get an admincert, go for it, but I'd be
careful.
Um, should you get certifiedbefore applying?
(42:56):
Yes.
Contract or full-time, which isbetter.
Well, people were gonna see alot more contract in the next
year.
Anytime we're seeing a slightlyshrinking market, companies are
afraid to overinvest too fast.
So they'll go probably see alittle bit of a bump in contract
hiring in 2026 from 25, Ithink.
Um for sure.
(43:17):
Uh sometimes people are askingme, like, hey Josh, how do I
compete with offshore talent?
Well, you know, one, you eithercompete with them or you don't.
Like, I don't.
You can go get a recruiter for1500 bucks a month.
Good luck with that.
You know, like it's not thesame thing.
Okay, so uh I really wouldn'tworry about that.
(43:37):
If you're in the US and you'rea citizen or a green card, like
just like you've got a you justknow you've got an advantage,
like uh automatically.
Um, as far as which industrycloud has the most opportunity,
I'd say finserve and healthcareare probably the biggest.
Rev cloud's great too.
We're seeing some with fieldservice.
There's a little bit moredemand.
I was just walking down thehall and I saw Brett who I think
(44:00):
just sold um Ner Neuroflash toum to Accenture this year,
right?
So he's like right here in thebuilding sometimes.
Like it's clearly you can growa business like that and sell it
and do quite well.
Um it's not easy, the easiestthing in the world, but special
specializing is just that it'sspecializing.
And you can usually make moremoney as a specialist, but you
(44:21):
can also get cut out faster whentech takes over that specific
sector or the specializationwith unique skill sets no longer
matter.
Um, that kind of thing.
Okay, so 26.
In summary, what can youexpect?
Um more jobs than 25, longertimes to get hired than 25, um,
(44:44):
more layoffs of uh entry-levelor basic repetitive task
employees across the board,across the whole world, not just
in Salesforce.
Um, how do you stay on top ofit and get really good at AI,
starting with getting very goodat prompting, um, taking a good
hard look at yourself, beinghonest, being vulnerable, and
then attacking these specificbehaviors or philosophies that
(45:07):
are holding you back.
So if the philosophy iscorporate America is bad and
you're trying to get a job incorporate America, you now have
a problem.
Okay, you're not gonna winthat.
You're always gonna be inconflict.
And guess what?
If I interviewed you and thatcame across, I'm not gonna hire
you.
Period.
No freaking way, man.
Okay.
If I look up your LinkedIn andyou're bitching and complaining
(45:27):
about the job market all thetime, um, am I gonna hire you?
No.
Why?
Because you're negative.
Why does that matter?
Because there's enough of thatinternally inside all of us
anyway.
Those people repeat, you know,we repeat like 90% of our
thoughts.
We just repeat over and overagain, and the majority of those
are negative thoughts.
Why would we want to bringanyone else into our loop that's
(45:49):
going to just amplify that?
We don't need it.
And the walls calm down,everybody, focus on yourself,
focus on your family, be kind toone another, do good things,
right?
This kind of stuff, do that.
You know, lift people up.
And I like to lift everybody uphere by continuing this live
program.
And my commitment to you isthat I'm not going to screw up
the uh live login like I didthis week.
(46:12):
Boy, did I blow it.
And I'm so embarrassed.
But we'll be back in two weeks.
Um, Scott, any last questionsthat I can answer before you go
ahead and call it a wrap fortoday?
Speaker (46:23):
I actually have one question, really, I think
important.
How long should somebody take,right?
If they're applying for whatperiod of time?
Is it two months, three months,and they're not seeing some
traction, how long should theystop and actually say, hey, this
isn't the market.
This is me.
Right.
(46:43):
I I'm asking this questionbecause I actually ran into
somebody quite a few years ago.
And she told me, she goes, I'vebeen looking for a job 14
months.
And I said, Whoa.
I go, number one, I'm not sureyou should tell anybody that.
And number two, what are youdoing?
And I found that she was, shewasn't in Salesforce ecosystem,
she wasn't in anything.
I said, like, you have to beintentional.
(47:04):
Like you're going to just keepdoing this for years.
And I I helped her, mentoredher, and I got her a job.
I said, I told her what to doand what to be intentional.
But a lot of people might bestarting to go for six months
and they're not realizing, hey,now it's time to go for a walk,
or or when is it time to take aserious look at what's going
wrong and say, hey, maybe itcould be what I'm doing or my
(47:26):
mindset or something else.
So what is your timeline there?
Do you usually think?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, day one.
Day one right away.
Yeah.
Like, do you like here's thething?
You run an email campaign, youdo some A-B testing, you're
gonna know inside an hour whatemails are what, you know, what
subject line's getting opened ornot.
Right?
Speaker (47:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Like if you don't like here's the thing.
First of all, if you have to gohit the open market, in other
words, if recruiters aren'tcontacting you with viable jobs
that you're qualified for, thatyou would say yes to, that pay
what you want and you're doingwhat you want, you already have
a problem.
Right.
Like if if I have a businessand people aren't referring
(48:10):
people to me and companiesaren't calling me up and saying,
hey Josh, I need some help.
I found you online or whatever.
Um, can you help us hire thisperson?
If if the only way I can getbusiness is by cold calling or
hunting and pecking and tryingto meet new people all the time,
I've already got a problem.
Right?
So, unless you're in three orfour high-quality conversations
(48:32):
with several different companiesabout jobs that you really
want, then you've already got achallenge.
And you should start looking atyourself right away.
Okay.
And the first thing that Iwould look at is what have I
done from a decision-makingstandpoint on my job
transitions?
Like, have I jumped chip toooften, been fired too
frequently?
Right?
Start there.
And then you need to do somereal deep dive, talk to a
(48:53):
therapist or someone, and figureout what is it about you that
has you accidentally creatinghostility or pointing blame at
others that makes you someonethat other people don't want to
work with.
Okay.
So that's part of it.
Okay, sometimes things just badthings happen, can happen three
times in a row, but they don'thappen five times in a row.
(49:14):
So if it's four or five timeswith you, it's it's I promise
you, if you every place thatyou've worked at, worked at is
quote unquote toxic, you're thetoxic person.
You're the toxic person.
Crazy, batshit, crazy person.
It's you, okay.
Speaker (49:31):
Sorry.
No, I mean so it's true.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
So start right away.
So start right away, okay?
Next thing, look at yourresume.
Um, what would you earn if yougot a job in 30 days for the
subsequent five months?
And what would you earn if youdidn't get a job for six more
months?
You need to take an appropriatepeople are like, oh, I'm gonna
buy an engagement ring.
It's three months' salary.
It's like, well, how much wouldyou spend to get a job?
(49:55):
A life coach from Tony Robbins,maybe, or People First um uh
methodology, you know, trainingcourse with with John Quine, or
you know, Jules Bracy DeMaio,expert job hunter, if you're
director level and above, expertat job hunting, LinkedIn and
resumes.
Like if if you're not spending,it's like if you're not
(50:18):
spending money on advertising,you're wondering why you're not
selling anything, then you'vegot a problem.
So you've got to spend toreceive.
So think, and you're eitherspending your time and
expertise.
My guess is you don't have theexpertise.
Okay.
So that means you have to spendsome money, you know, to
consult with people.
I mean, I'll I I do it for freefor people sometimes.
And sometimes people like Josh,I really need your help.
I'm like, great, it's 500 bucksan hour.
(50:39):
You know, you're gonna walkaway with stuff that you could
have learned by listening to myshow for free, but that's what
it costs, right?
So, but find people who aregonna point you in the right
direction, make your resumeshine.
Here's the other thing you haveto ask yourself, am I getting
invitations, but that I'mbombing in interviews?
(50:59):
Right?
Or am I, you know, not gettingany invitations.
So if you're gettinginvitations, a lot of them, your
resume and LinkedIn are okay.
If you're not getting pushed tosecond and third rounds,
there's either a problem withyour interviewing, or there's a
problem with your ability toarticulate, or your resume is
(51:20):
full of crap, and you over, youknow, sort of like painted a
slightly more favorable pictureof yourself than your actual
experience can hold up underpressure, under a live interview
pressure.
Do you see what I mean?
So there's a lot of adjustmentshere.
We're not going to solve itright now, but that's what I
(51:40):
would be doing.
I'd start day one.
Speaker (51:44):
That's really good.
I mean, I think that's actuallyeven more than I would have
said.
I would have said, hey, give ittwo months, and if you're not
getting some traction, butyou're saying just be honest
with yourself, right?
If if you sent up something andyou're not getting any traction
back, evaluate what's wrong,right?
And you gave really practicalum insights there, right?
If you're sending out a resumeand you're not getting any
(52:05):
invitations, then that's theproblem.
If you are getting invitations,but yet you've had 10
interviews and you weren't ableto get a job, then you need to
work on that skill.
Very, yeah, that's with this.
Very good insights.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's what's up, man.
All right, guys.
Thank you for being on theshow, Scott.
And uh thanks for everybodywho's listening to this program.
We're going to uh be back intwo weeks.
I'm not exactly sure what we'regonna cover, but I have a
feeling that I want to talkabout how the Salesforce career
ladder is broken.
Okay.
Salesforce career ladder isbroken.
So that'll hopefully offer evendeeper insights into how to uh
(52:40):
hire, better, grow your career.
Uh again, check us out on umBuzzSprout.
You can check us out on um uhApple Podcasts, Spotify, the
Josh Force channel on YouTube.
This will be up probably inabout a week, something like
that.
So you can check that out.
You can also check it rightback here on LinkedIn.
If you're listening to thisprogram and you want to see me
(53:02):
and Scott's uh mugs um yappingaway, you can just go to
LinkedIn or go to YouTube.
Okay, until then, take care.
Good luck, everybody.
Bye, and have a great 26.
Welcome to the Hiring Edge, the podcast helping
leaders navigate the age of AI,create teams that thrive, and
build a workplace people neverwant to leave.
My name is Josh Matthews.
I'm your host.
And today with me I have ScottStafford.
Scott Stafford, 27X certifiedSalesforce professional.
He's a certified architect.
He's a friend of mine.
He's deeply involved in theecosystem.
(00:20):
We appreciate you, Scott, beinghere today.
He's going to help me with alittle bit of the flow of this
and hopefully keep me a littlebit grounded.
What's the job market like?
This is going to be great.
Yeah, man.
Yeah, it's it's a big deal,right?
Um, I got invited by SalesforceBen to contribute to a sort of
2026 talent update article.
I think that was released lastFriday, sort of third week of
(00:43):
January.
So definitely check that out.
There's a lot of very brightpeople contributed to that
knowledge base.
What we're gonna do today isgonna kind of capitalize on that
a little bit, but I'm not gonnareally not gonna go over too
much of what I shared on there.
People are wanting tounderstand what's gonna happen
in my career this year.
Like, is my job safe?
(01:05):
Or I can't find a job.
How am I going to find one?
Or I'm struggling to figure outwhat to do with my team.
It's either bloated or it'sunderstaffed.
How do we solve that problem?
Now, about a year ago, well,it's really probably exactly a
year ago, um, I produced anarticle.
It did quite well, and theywere my predictions for what we
(01:28):
can expect in the next one tothree years from a hiring and
employment standpoint in theecosystem, specifically how is
AI going to impact the jobmarket.
And I'm gonna give you thequick, uh, the quick, easy
insight is this is everythingthat I said, a lot of what I
said was kind of spot on, butthe most salient points were
(01:51):
that things have accelerated ata rate uh probably two to three
times faster than predicted.
Right.
So right now, somewhere around92% of software developers are
utilizing AI.
My prediction was that wasgonna, it was gonna hit that
number by the end of uh 2028,right?
So I really missed the mark.
(02:12):
And, you know, I don't know ifthat's a good thing or not.
I've never been big intopredictions.
But what I did do is I tappedinto over 150 sources to try and
get the best, most reliabledata around the state of the
market.
And so I want to go over, Iwant to go over some of that
information, specifically what'sthe state of the job market
(02:34):
right now.
Like, are we in job recoverymode?
Are we in like ecosystemrecovery mode?
Because not everybody feelsthat, right?
Scott, I mean, you're onLinkedIn, you've got a lot of
followers.
You hear the rumblings, it'smore like grumblings from the
marketplace.
There are a lot of people outthere that are so frustrated.
(02:55):
Man, they're so uh uhdisappointed.
They thought, you know, I'mgonna get this cert, and then
I'm gonna make 90 grand a year,and I'm not gonna pump gas
anymore.
And they're still pumping gas,and they want to know what
happened.
Well, I can tell you whathappened.
First of all, uh job postingsdeclined by about third, I think
(03:17):
we had like a global demanddrop in 2024.
Global demand for Salesforceprofessionals dropped by 37%.
That was just in 2024.
Okay, that's 2024.
Scott Stafford (03:30):
That's a lot.
Josh Matthews (03:31):
Yeah, it's a lot.
And it was, it was about thesame or more in 23, right?
Everyone remembers the $10,000,or not $10,000, $10,000 million
dollar bucks, 10,000 personlayoff of Salesforce around
Christmas of, I think it's, arewe going back to 24?
Is that 23?
I can't even remember now.
It's three years ago.
So yeah, 23.
(03:52):
So Christmas of 22.
That uh was like a kick in thegut.
And a lot of people nevercaught their breath after that.
They got the wind knocked outof them, and the wind stayed
knocked out of them.
Okay.
So we have some good newsaround global demand recovery.
It is actually up 37%.
Sorry, it's up 8% year overyear.
Scott Stafford (04:13):
I was pretty impressed with that 38%.
I was like, okay, that's somereally good news, Josh.
Right?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I know, right?
Kind of crazy.
Speaker (04:20):
But I'm not sure that everybody's feeling that 8%.
There's just so much happening,right, in the space, right?
And you might hear thosestatistics, but you also want to
know how does it affect likeme, right?
I'm still looking for a job.
And though it's not 38%, buteven 8%, you're just sometimes
people aren't feeling that rightnow.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Well, 8% is nothing, right?
I mean, 8% is a 25% correctionagainst uh a 37% drop-off or 30%
correction.
Not even a 30% correction.
You see what I mean?
So have the 75% delta of pain.
Speaker (04:56):
That makes sense.
I mean, I think that's whatpeople are really feeling.
We're still quite a bit downfrom where we wanted to.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
By the way, look, the reality is not everyone's
feeling it.
Some people are thriving rightnow.
In this conversation, Scott,what I'm not gonna do is I'm not
gonna sugarcoat what theelephant in the room is.
I'm not gonna sugarcoat whatthe reality is for a lot of
people, but I'm also not goingto be a doomsayer.
You know, this is not a doomand gloom conversation.
It's like, oh no, all is lost,right?
(05:23):
It that's not the case.
So, our goal here is to reallyjust help people understand
what's going on with theecosystem in general and more
specifically, what can they doabout it?
Because look, I've got allthese numbers, and you guys can
run your own LLM and AIsearches, and you guys can dig
in to whatever it is that youneed to dig into.
Um, if you're moderately goodat prompting and you've got
(05:46):
access to some decent LLMs likeperplexity, deep research, and
that kind of stuff, you can findthis stuff out the same way I
do, right?
I'm just one guy.
So I have my take on themarket, and I have my actual
interface with my clients, myinterface with the candidates
and the ecosystem.
But I have to research thisstuff, or else I, you know, all
you're gonna hear is JoshMatthews' perspective.
(06:07):
And look, it's not a badperspective, but it's just a
single perspective.
And I want to give everybody areal clear vision of what they
can expect.
So here's what's dying rightnow.
And everybody knows it.
Like, this isn't gonna be ashock.
Here's what's dying.
Manual configuration tasks,right?
That's dying.
Entry-level support roles.
Speaker (06:28):
I mean, even the admins, they've seen their role
change so much over the lastyear.
I mean, you're no longer doingright what you used to be doing
just just even nine months ago,right?
There's so many new tools.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And why would you?
You don't have to.
Like, why would you be doingthe same stuff?
You know, it makes no sense.
I'm not running my company thesame way that I did two, three
years ago.
Why would I?
I have fewer staff and I getmore done with AI, right?
But we're gonna talk aboutthat.
We're gonna talk about what youcan actually do to protect
that.
So manual configuration tests,basic cred operations,
(07:04):
entry-level support roles, thoseare kind of going away, right?
That doesn't mean that therearen't entry-level
opportunities.
Just remember, I saidentry-level support roles.
So the support roles are goingaway.
We saw that back in the summerwhen Salesforce laid off 4,000
people in India in their supportdepartment.
Everybody lost their freakingmind.
(07:25):
I mean, they really lost it.
But hold on, Scott, hold on.
Hold on, hold on, Scott.
The reality is, is when thathappened, people lost their
mind.
But what they forgot is thatthey'd hired 7,000 people within
the prior three, four years.
Right.
And so there's there can bethis really um, you know, when
you're just looking at a singledata point, it can really kind
of mess you up.
This is what happens if youonly watch Fox or only watch
(07:47):
MSNBC.
Yeah.
Like you're gonna get a just asingle point of view, and you're
gonna start to kind of ideatein a single um, you know, with a
sort of a single paradigm.
You gotta get out of that,guys.
And I I just want to saysomething real quick.
I am constantly running intopeople who are AI resistant.
(08:10):
You've met these people, Scott?
Speaker (08:13):
Yeah, I actually have a lot.
And the weird part is I thinkit's just because they're
afraid.
I mean, it's not that theydon't actually find technology
interesting.
They just saw something new andare really wondering what is
that going to do to society?
They're frozen.
They're listening to Fox orCNN, but they're not pulling
(08:33):
back and say, hey, what do Ineed to do now?
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because look, here's thereality.
We have an AI wave.
I used to surf a lot back inthe day.
And for those of you who'venever surfed before, the one
thing that you have to do is youhave to be going pretty darn
close to the speed of the wavethat you're trying to catch.
If you're gonna catch a wavelike 40, 50 foot wave like Jaws
(08:59):
out in uh Maui, uh, yougenerally need a ski toe, you
know, a jet ski, right?
If you don't, one of two thingshappen.
The first thing that happens ifyou don't go fast enough is you
miss the wave.
You don't catch it.
That sucks.
Okay.
The other thing that happens isyou could get the wind knocked
(09:21):
out of you, you could be scrapedon the coral down below.
If you don't want to get caughtinside without actually
catching the wave, that'sdangerous.
But if you paddle hard enoughearly enough, and then you you
catch the wave, you're cruising,man.
Now you're just making littleadjustments.
I'm gonna slow it down so I cantube.
(09:41):
I'm gonna lean forward so I cancatch some speed so that I can
catch the next wave and link acouple waves in a row.
If you're really offshore, youcan do that.
Speaker (09:50):
I love that analogy.
I mean, because I think that'swhat people are feeling.
I mean, you see the opportunityout there, but people want to
make sure that they understandwhat to do, right?
How do you catch that wave?
I mean, how do you get in thereand do the right things, right?
There's so many places whereyou think, hey, do I do this
boot camp?
Do I do that?
Right.
(10:11):
How do I make sure that I'mgetting the speed right and
catching this wave?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
That's right.
Well, the first thing that youdo is you make a plan.
And I we can have a whole othershow on exactly how to do this.
First, I just want to startwith the mindset, right?
So, right now, I'm just gonnagive you my overall thinking
about what happens in 2026.
It's gonna be a little weird.
Hiring is taking longer.
There are fewer hires beingmade, there's still demand for
(10:38):
hiring.
So, what does that mean to you?
Look, the reality is mostpeople can actually get a job if
they have the right skill set,the right resume, they can
interview and they can bringenough value.
They're generally finding a jobwithin 60 days.
Okay.
If people are taking sixmonths, 18 months, then there's
something wrong.
(10:59):
There's something wrong withtheir resume, their LinkedIn
profile, their phone voice,their ability to have a
conversation, their ability toconvey and articulate their
talent or their value, orthey're looking in the wrong
place, or they're not tryinghard enough.
I know some people are going tobe like, what are you talking
about, Josh?
I've been applying to, I signedup for this thing and it
submits me to 200 jobs everysingle week, and it costs me
(11:22):
$500, and I still don't have ajob.
It's like, well, this is whereyou put your trust in the wrong
AI.
Right.
Speaker (11:30):
Yeah.
Well, that that would be a lotof resumes.
200 and you're not gettingsomething, you better read the
writing on the wall that youneed to do.
So that's different.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
That's a whole other topic, but honest to God, man,
that's just a this whole otherweird thing that's happening
with AI trying to capitalize andhelp people get jobs through uh
automatic one-click umapplications.
I would avoid those.
Okay.
Okay.
You're gonna like I alreadyhave developed GPTs and software
to screen those.
(11:58):
So that means that if you thinkyou can just you can't just
outsource your careerdevelopment any more than you
can outsource your um, you know,landing a new job.
Good luck with that.
But what you can do is you canaugment it.
You can augment it utilizingAI, you can augment it working
with professionals thatspecialize in helping people
(12:20):
land jobs.
You know, you definitely wantto screen those people as though
you're hiring them as anemployee, make sure that they're
actually good at what they doand get references, things like
that.
But this is not a career showabout um what to do if you've,
you know, you can't find work.
There's a hundred hours ofprogramming from this show that
you can go dig in and uh talkabout it ad nauseum.
(12:40):
I want to stay focused on 26,okay?
So here's the reality uh skillsthat command premiums right
now.
People are often asking that,like, hey, what certs should I
get?
Right?
Where should I be focusing uhmy attention?
CPQ experience, revenue cloudexperience, mule soft uh and
(13:02):
APIs and marketing cloud, you'regonna get anywhere from sort of
$10,000 to $25,000 more forthat specialty, right?
So it's going and getting thecert, that's a good place to
start.
But the reality is you need tohave exposure to it.
You need to know how to do thisstuff.
So you can do that either bybeing in a company that you know
(13:24):
already has that technology andthen trying to ingratiate
yourself and start to learn itand use it.
You can do it through bootcamps, things like that.
That's a way.
I don't think it's the most,but I don't think it's the best
way.
But these are the skills thatare commanding premiums right
now.
But there's a skill that uhsort of circumvents all of
these, like, hey Josh, what certdo I need?
(13:45):
Right.
And that is AI competency forone.
That's number one.
Speaker (13:50):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
And then there's this other thing, right?
Because the reality is isadmins are becoming more like um
orchestrators, right?
They're orchestrating AI tosolve problems at scale.
I think I talked about lastyear project managers were
likely to see a anywhere from a50 to 70 percent um reduction in
(14:13):
PMs who haven't adopted AI.
And why is that?
Well, the $4 million projectthat used to have two or three
PMs now needs one, right?
Or the PM that was managing twoprojects, now they can take on
five or six projects becausethey can automate a lot of the
scheduling stuff and you know, alot of you know, just even just
(14:34):
basic LLM stuff and writing.
They can just do more withless, right?
So it's it's the same ideahere, right?
You've got to be able to takeon more work, but be more
efficient at it.
But the biggest thing is thatanytime we have like a massive
influx of like a new technology,something that's going to
(14:56):
improve uh you know taskautomation, um low barrier entry
level, repetitive tasks, Scott.
Right?
What happens when they when AItakes that from the workforce,
then it maximizes the need tostand out as supremely human.
Speaker (15:22):
I love that though.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Okay.
Speaker (15:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I mean in a weird waythough, that's actually a good
thing.
I mean, that is what peoplewant, is we want, right, the
opportunity to be more human, tobe more genuine, to be more
authentic, right?
But at the same time, you know,you you have to become
efficient as an orchestratorwith all the tools to allow
(15:47):
yourself, right, the opportunityto make those deeper
connections, to be able to havemore insight.
But I totally agree with whatyou're saying.
People are asking more, right?
Employers are looking for moreand more um value, right, for
per employee, right?
And then they're also beingasked to provide a higher level
(16:08):
of service.
So yeah, that's dead on.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Yeah.
And it's it's that human, it'sthat human connection, right?
So it's a high level ofservice, yes.
But really, it's that deep,deep, deep human connection and
that human mind to be able tofigure out business problems, to
figure out strategy.
And you can add, like, I don'tknow about you, but I'll ask AI
(16:32):
to do some things for me.
I had MANIS going through about25, 30, 3,500 uh account
records, right?
All I wanted it to do wasfigure out if these companies
are still open or under adifferent moniker from four
years ago when they were addedto my database.
Man, that thing ran for 24hours, cost me like 30,000
(16:54):
credits, and produced nothing.
Every time I got within like200 um records of it being like
ready, it would say, Oh, I lostthe sandbox.
You know, like it just became,it was like a nightmare, right?
So, like, what's that mean tome?
Does it mean Manaus is bad?
No, it means that I set it upfor failure, right?
I should have just put in onebatch of 500 at a time instead
(17:17):
of telling it to batch it forme.
Like, okay, lesson learned,right?
So, you know, we've got tolearn those things and we learn
it through pain, we learn itthrough hard knocks, and we
learn it by trying.
But if you're not trying atall, you're not gonna learn it.
And if you're not learning it,you can't talk about what you
learned in a job interview.
So good luck with that.
Have fun with that.
Next time you get interviewed,you're like, uh bleep bleep
(17:38):
blee, I don't know, right?
So, you know, you just gottakind of like be vulnerable here.
But back to the human side.
I'm really not at this point,clearly, I'm not really looking
at my notes.
I don't think I have been.
But I want to talk about whatthat means.
Speaker (17:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
So um Jimmy gets a job in in 2020, or let's say
2022, and Jimmy's an admin.
All right.
So he goes to work, he does histhing, he does all of his admin
stuff.
Then he finds out, you know, umafter uh a few years, he can
start to lean into the LLMs andthis kind of thing.
(18:19):
Um, but he's not into it, he'snot really down with that.
He just wants to keep doingwhat he's doing.
But then AI hit.
Like, and it hit hard.
And he he was started to bemore started to be asked of him,
right?
He started to get scared, hestarted to get a little bit
(18:39):
nervous.
He wanted to settle his nervoussystem down a little bit.
So, what does Jimmy do?
He jumps on LinkedIn, he jumpson Reddit and starts talking
about his fears in a public way,and people are listening.
He starts to get a bunch offollowers now that he's talking
about fears of like hey, Benioffsaid, you know, redu this about
(19:02):
reducing headcount.
All of a sudden, he's popular.
He's getting some attention.
He feels really valuable.
Oh, this needs to be heard.
Like, I've got a voice in theecosystem.
I'm really going to expressmyself now.
What he's doing isn't actuallyimproving his career.
It's scratching an itch.
It's helping him feelsignificant because he's not
(19:24):
feeling so significant at workanymore.
He's feeling afraid for hiscareer.
Does that make sense?
Speaker (19:30):
Yeah.
I think what you're reallylearning in, right, is fear,
right, breaks down love, breaksdown movement, right?
It can solve a need, right?
You see that a lot of times onyou know, different Fox or
whatever.
They sell fear.
But everybody sells fear.
It's not just Fox.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Everybody sells fear, Scott.
So let's get real about that.
Speaker (19:51):
So much opportunity out there, right?
What you want to do is youdon't want to get afraid of it.
You don't want to actually takeother people down, but you want
to actually be optimistic aboutthe opportunity and lean in
that way for yourself, right?
And it it's it's a hard, it's amindset, right?
If you wake up in the morning,you say, How am I gonna look at
this cup?
Right.
I mean, to be honest, everybodyalways says, right, hey,
(20:13):
whenever you have a lot oftransition, there's incredible
opportunity, but then there's alot of change and some people
get afraid.
But if you lean in, you'regonna be able to start paddling
and catch that wave that yousaid.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, that's right.
That's right.
And you're gonna takeadvantage.
You don't want to be on thebeach, I can tell you that.
And you don't want to be underthe wave.
Like neither of those are good.
But I'm seeing this a lot.
This Jimmy's story.
Jimmy's not a real person.
He's an amalgamation of about300 Salesforce pros that I'm
seeing.
And there are a lot of peoplethat listen to them.
There are a lot of, you know,hundreds of thousands, thousands
(20:44):
of people are listening.
Oh, you're so right.
Oh, you're so right.
You're getting distracted.
Okay.
You're getting distracted bysomething that is making you
feel safe temporarily, bysomething that's making you feel
good temporarily.
These people actually knew whatwas best for your career,
they'd be giving you muchdifferent information.
Okay.
So if you see anything wherethey're bitching about layoffs
(21:06):
or complaining about this, justbe aware.
Just I want you to, in yourmind, go, is this this is what
Josh told me about.
I need to turn this off.
And I want every time I hearsomeone, like I just saw the
other day, information wasleaked that uh Amazon's gonna
lay off 30,000 operationalpeople.
(21:27):
30,000 people, man.
Well, you can start flippingyour lid and losing your mind,
but it's not like people haven'tbeen talking about this for two
freaking years, right?
So I think number one, don'tact surprised when you hear
about layoffs.
Two, don't be terrified whenyou hear about layoffs.
If you're not like happiness iswhen expectations meet reality
(21:48):
meets expectations.
So let's set your reality here.
There's gonna be a lot ofthere's gonna be a lot of
layoffs.
Okay.
There's gonna be a lot oflayoffs in 2026.
That's just, of course, you'regonna see.
Artists are getting laid off.
Support people are getting laidoff.
I know, oh, but Salesforce, youknow, Agent Force Service Cloud
sucks.
And it's not, whatever.
(22:09):
Get over it.
Okay.
They're getting, it's gonna getbetter exponentially.
Everybody calm down, right?
It's the reality.
So, what are you gonna do aboutit?
People, you have got to, for2026, here's what I want you to
do.
I want you to, one, recognizethe fear articles.
They want likes, it feeds theirego, it drives sales for their
(22:32):
boot camp.
It drives sales for, you know,whatever consulting they're
selling you.
It drives sales for theirlittle $400 a month, AI this, AI
that.
Okay.
Don't get left behind.
Sign up now.
Okay.
The reality is, is they're notwrong.
You will get left behind.
I don't know if you should signup now, though, but but you
(22:52):
will get you will get leftbehind.
Instead, when you hear that, Iwant you to think this is normal
for the world we're in rightnow.
Get comfortable with it.
Don't want anybody to besurprised anymore.
It's not 2022.
So can we move on?
Okay.
It's like someone who'scomplaining about, you know,
their ex-husband from 30 yearsago.
(23:13):
It's like, get over it.
Okay.
Like, time to move on.
Speaker (23:16):
When you recognize it, shouldn't you also keep yourself
a little bit away from it?
I mean, I think it's it's wiseto see the articles and I
recognize them.
And then I actually unpurposelydon't digest it because I am
conscious of what I put into tomy body, to my mind.
And I'm like, I'm not gonna goon Reddit and read all this
Debbie Downer stuff, right?
I'm actually going and saying,hey, I see what's happening, but
(23:39):
there is opportunity.
Well, you're probably gonnatalk a lot about the jobs, you
know, that are changing, butthere's lots of new jobs that
are happening, right?
Right.
So talk a little bit about thatthough.
Once you recognize it, how muchof it should you should you
ingest?
What when should you tellyourself, hey, that's enough?
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well, look, I I think I think um a headline is enough
to know like, yeah, I don'treally need to get into that.
Now it doesn't, it makes senseto understand what's going on in
the market, right?
Like I digest some of thisstuff.
What I don't do is, and I trynot to, because I know how I am.
If I start diving into all thecomments, like I'll see an
(24:18):
article or a post and I'll belike, this is just such drivel.
Like there's a billionaire thatis making you believe in this
stuff somewhere, regardless ofthe side of the aisle that
you're on.
There's a billionaire behindit.
Okay.
Yeah.
And they want, they want you toclick on this stuff.
And they, if it's not youridea, then then you're being
used by the person who had theidea, right?
(24:40):
To be at their megaphone.
Right.
It's like all these people whoshow up at protests and they're
given a megaphone, and you'relike, hey, where are you from?
And they're like, hired actors,you know, like this stuff is
real.
So I just think that it'sreally important to just see it,
recognize it for what it is,and move on.
If you stay in your lane, youstay focused, I don't in your
lane, but if you stay focused onwhat can I do today?
(25:01):
Right.
Um, have I created a careerplan for myself?
All of this stuff, by the way,Scott, it really starts with
getting really good atprompting.
Okay.
So I know some people who areokay at prompting, and they've
taken my advice and done thisvery simple thing where you go
in and you say, okay, I want youto no fluff, rate, rank me on a
(25:26):
scale of 100.
Like, where do I sit in as faras you know, you know,
prompters?
Like, how are my promptingskills?
No fluff.
Gotta say that.
No fluff.
You can't hurt my feelings, behonest.
Okay.
And then by the way, tell mewhat I should do differently.
What can I do to get in the top5% of prompters?
So I've had people do this andthey come out and they're like,
(25:47):
Josh, I scored.
I'm in the top 20% ofprompters.
Speaker (25:50):
Well, that sounds good, but that's not necessarily that
great, right?
Speaker 1 (25:54):
It's it's not good at it's not good at all.
Because if you're in the top20% of prompters, um, that means
that, first of all, that meansthat you're probably in
technology.
Okay.
So it probably means you're inlike the bottom 50% of all
technologists.
So everything's relative.
Yeah.
Right?
It all it all matters.
(26:15):
So it doesn't matter what itcomes back and says.
You just want to say, I want tobe in the top 5%.
Create a lesson plan for mewhere I can learn how to do the
two or three things that aremost important that will get me
better results.
You know, some and by the way,LLMs won't always tell you this,
but like push back.
Yep.
(26:35):
How do you come up with that?
That doesn't make sense to me.
Oh, yeah, you're right, my bad.
Right.
I do this every day, all daylong.
Or I heard this one from afriend of mine at a group that I
go to um the other day, and hesaid, Yeah, I tell it to give me
uh an estimate on itsconfidence level with its
response for everything.
It's just a quick text, youknow, um, you know, like
(26:58):
shortcut, like drops it in onevery prompt.
And so it'll come back withthis information.
It'll speak very confidently.
Oh, this is how you want to dothat.
Go this and then do this.
And then confidence level, 77%.
unknown (27:10):
Right.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Then he's like, how come it's not a hundred?
It's like oh yeah, it'sactually 50%.
Here's why I forgot to lookthis up.
I forgot to do that.
I didn't do this.
Okay.
Come up with an answer thatyou're 90% sure of.
Speaker (27:25):
You have to learn, right, to use the tools, all the
tools, right?
You you use the tech tools inthe Salesforce ecosystem, but
then you you learn to use othertools, right?
Where there's more tools for usto learn, right?
And then we also have to learnto use ourselves as a tool, like
we were saying before, right?
Your mindset, be be rightintentional about what you
(27:45):
ingest and talk to yourselfpositively about like what
you're gonna do so that you canpaddle up really quick and ride
that wave.
That's right.
It's really important.
This is a really good advice.
I love this.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
Yeah, it's good stuff, man.
All right, we've got a lot tocover and only 20 minutes left
or 15, 20 minutes left.
So I want to dive into this alittle bit more.
Okay.
Um, we've talked a little bitabout what's most valuable right
now from like, you know, thebig shift into like Rev Cloud,
marketing cloud.
This is where you're gonna seea little bit more money.
Um, the return on investmentquestion around uh what specific
(28:21):
certifications, look, uhplatform developers, certified
admins, admin cert path, youknow, boot camps, like these
sorts of things.
And the reality is I think thatanyone who's doing anything,
whether you're a developer, anadmin, architect, whatever,
where to spend your phone.
Look, you've got 27 certs,Scott.
I would bet you $1,000 that youhaven't actually had to use
(28:45):
every single one of them.
Would I be accurate?
That would be very accurate.
Okay, and I would make myself$1,000 very quickly if you
actually took that bet, whichyou're smart enough not to,
because you already know theanswer.
But but the reality here isthat getting uh certs is great,
but getting good atunderstanding how to communicate
your value, how to deliver goodbusiness insight, how to
(29:08):
orchestrate multiple AI uhplatforms together to work
together, how to create flowsand automations, that's where
your value is gonna be.
This isn't necessarily justabout, hey, Josh, I want to make
more money, what do I do?
This is more about like, hey, Idon't want to be left behind in
two years or by the end of theyear, I don't want to lose my
job.
I need to demonstrate to mycurrent employer that if I'm on
(29:31):
a team of 12 and they're gonnacut it down to seven or eight,
that it I should, it should beobvious that clearly I'm
definitely one of the ones thatthey want to keep.
Speaker (29:41):
Okay.
unknown (29:42):
Right?
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Does that make sense?
So whether you're looking for ajob or here's the thing, Scott.
Whether you're looking for ajob or not, you should always be
looking, at least minimally, tokeep the job you've got.
Speaker (29:54):
Right.
unknown (29:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
That's different.
unknown (29:57):
Go ahead.
Speaker (29:58):
I'm hearing that a lot.
I mean, I've actually hadsomeone that called me up and
they said they were sat down by,you know, their CEO, and they
said, you are really good,right?
You know a lot abouttechnology.
You're a great developer, butwe're you're on notice here that
you need to offer more withyour human skills.
They said that we want youactually speaking up more.
(30:20):
We want you contributing moreto the strategy.
And they came to me and they'relike, scared.
What programs do I do?
And I said, Yeah, I think thegood part is that they didn't
just let you go, right?
They valued all of yourexperience, and now you have an
opportunity, right, to actuallystrengthen that.
I think you guys have probablyalready heard.
I always say that, hey, whatdifferentiates us, right?
(30:42):
We have machines here, right?
AI is a machine.
And what's different between AIand us?
And you would say, well, it'ssome of your human skills,
right?
It's your inspiration, it'syour wisdom, it's your insight,
and it's your heart.
So strengthen those.
And then also, right, make sureyou're peddling, right, and
keeping up to date with all thetechnology, right?
(31:03):
Now, you know, find which certsare gonna be of value, but also
complement that, understandingthat you're an orchestrator,
right?
You're gonna use all the tools,right?
But the human skills arebecoming really important.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
Yeah.
And look, I'm gonna, I'm justgonna plug my friend's um
training academy real quick.
It's um uh people first method.
That's John Klein's group.
Speaker (31:25):
He is incredible, right?
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, he's so good.
And and I've I've placed two ofhis graduates.
Um, it's he really knows howto, he's he's just got this very
special, in-tune talent um anda level of patience that doesn't
match mine.
You know, I'm like, just dothis, why not?
(31:48):
Just get it done.
Um, you know, he's verycompassionate, he's very
patient, um, and he's a veryunderstanding leader, and he
teaches people how to how to bethat, you know, in their own
careers, in the current jobs andthe jobs that hopefully they
they'll get someday.
Okay, a little bit more tocover.
I want to give some people somepractical, practical um advice
(32:08):
before we bogue out here, andthen I'm happy to answer any
questions that you might have.
We did not get any questions onour live show because I botched
the start and stop.
Sorry, people.
My bad.
Won't happen again.
I hope I didn't lose youforever.
Probably did, but I don't know.
We'll see.
Okay.
Speaker (32:25):
So uh I think with this content, right, and helping
people right to really adapt.
And you're I'm gonna ask you,right, for three right core
things that people should doright now.
Sure, you already said one ofthem, right?
That really just blew me away,right?
Make sure that you take care ofyour mindset and be conscious
of what you're ingesting.
But give people three tips,right, right now, the beginning
(32:48):
of 2026.
What would you do if you havebeen looking for a job for three
months and you're not gettingany traction?
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Okay.
Um first of all, uh accept thatholiday and January time is not
the best time for the jobmarket.
Right.
So a lot of people are like, ohyeah, I'm gonna start looking
for a job in the new year or,you know, after my kids are back
in school or right afterThanksgiving, things kind of
(33:18):
quiet down and I've got moretime.
I don't know if that's the bestidea, you know, because it's
quite quiet in the job market inthe Salesforce ecosystem until
mid-February, after after, youknow, after the February shuffle
at Salesforce.
A lot of clients are havingtheir budgeting meetings
throughout the month of January.
I know I've had a three jobsthat I was working on, all got
(33:41):
put on hold with a coupledifferent companies because of
that.
It's pretty normal.
It's not like I don't see itevery year.
It's pretty normal.
So just understand that one ofthe components might be the
timing.
The other thing that I'd say isyou want to take full
responsibility for what yourassets are, your LinkedIn
profile and your resume.
There are people out there whoare targeting 300, $300,000 and
$400,000 jobs.
(34:02):
And guess what?
They spent money on theirresume.
I interviewed a guy for athree, $400,000 job the other
day.
Kind of an old guy like me,like us.
And he was self-professed, uh,very good at AI, used AI to
create his resume.
(34:22):
His resume sucked.
Like it sucked garbage.
Um, it wasn't good.
And I told him straight up,like, I'd be happy to interview
you, but I'd need to see abetter resume first because I
couldn't even just float this tomy client.
It's not, you're you're noteven close to competitive with
the other candidates that I'mworking with.
So if you fall in love withyour resume, that's like falling
(34:44):
in love with your dog andthinking that your dog's the
most beautiful dog in the world.
Half of dogs are the ugliestdogs in the world.
Okay, so try to remember that.
By the way, we're getting a newpuppy.
I just put a deposit downyesterday, so I'm really
excited.
But um but but it's true, likehalf of dogs are the ugliest
half of dogs in all the world,right?
Do we have any tips for peopleto actually evaluate?
(35:05):
Hold on, I'm I'm I'm tellingyou, Scott, hold on a second.
So so what you need, yes, sowhat you need to do is you you
need to stop falling in lovewith what you've created, right?
And that means you need to geta second, third party opinion,
not from someone who loves you,from someone critical, right?
(35:26):
From someone very critical, andnot just AI.
Talk to someone who's a hiringmanager that you're friends
with, an old boss.
What do you think of this?
And you gotta tell them, like,be straight up with me.
Like, I don't want any fluff.
Don't kiss my ass.
Like, tell me, right?
Here's here's an idea.
Read it out loud.
If it sounds not good or notcompelling, then you've got a
(35:48):
problem.
Here's another thing.
Go look at other resumes ofpeople who've been hired or read
their LinkedIn profiles ofpeople who've been hired at the
kind of jobs that you want.
What do their LinkedIn profileslook like?
What does their about sectionsound like?
Right?
Like start comparison, but getout of your own head.
Usually people build something,develop it, and then they
wonder what's wrong and theydon't look at themselves.
(36:09):
It's you.
I'm just gonna tell you, ifyou're not getting a job right
now, it's you, okay?
It's not the market.
And that's gonna sting for alot of people.
Sometimes it's timing, but mostoften it's you.
You've chosen to not do certainthings that you should, not
write things that you should,not research things that you
should have, not change thingssoon enough that you could have,
(36:31):
or maybe you didn't conductyourself in a way that you
should have in past jobs, andnow you're the person who's got
six jobs in six years, andyou're wondering why people why
the phone's not ringing off thehook.
There's going to be some marketto that, like stuff to that,
but it doesn't matter.
You know, I really like thisidea that the world is an anvil
(36:51):
and experience is the hammer,and you're gonna get hit.
Like you're gonna get hit.
But man, if you analogy if youif you're not if you're not
getting sharper by all of thesesmacks in the face, by all of
these hammers that you're takingin the job market right now,
then you're not learning.
And you have to ask yourself,what is it about me?
(37:12):
What level of hubris, ego,self-protection, nervous system
protection?
What am I so afraid of if Iactually look at myself and say,
I've got a problem.
So you've got to get really,you've got to do two things.
You've got to be vulnerablewith yourself and look at
yourself in a really deep wayand say, how am I like
(37:34):
responsible for this?
And then gird yourself becauseyou're going to be faced with a
challenge.
And everybody's heard me saythis before.
A challenge is uh nothing's achallenge unless you seriously,
seriously want to quit it atsome point.
Okay.
So you've got to be willing togo through a little bit of hell.
(37:54):
It won't take too long, gothrough a little bit of hell.
Do things you don't want to do,be a little bit uncomfortable,
right?
And just not quit for a periodof time till things get easier.
So do that.
If you're anti-AI, get over it.
If you don't, you will screwyourself and everyone around
you.
And by the way, I'm just goingto appeal to your ego for a
(38:17):
minute.
You'll look like an idiot.
Okay.
You will look like an absolutemoron if you're like Mr.
Anti, Mr.
and Mrs.
Anti-AI, whether that's, oh,the data centers are killing the
environment, whatever.
You're going to have to getover it because this wave is not
stopping.
And by the way, AI is not goingto put you out of a job, but
people who know AI will.
Speaker (38:39):
Right.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
That's your biggest problem right now.
Does that make sense?
Speaker (38:43):
No.
I think also really what yousaid too, where you have to be
honest, right?
You have to be intentionalabout what you're ingesting,
right?
And then be honest withyourself.
Like if you're not getting ajob, like you were saying,
right?
Be honest and say, hey, maybe Ithink what I'm doing is right.
Go to somebody and say, hey,take this thing and rip this
apart.
Tell me what I could dodifferent, right?
Yeah.
I I actually got theopportunity that to get on the
(39:06):
call with you before you madethat decision.
And we both talked back andforth about 2026.
And we said, hey, what are wegoing to do?
And for me, I was actually notactually jogging as much.
And I said, I'm going to getout there.
And you said, Me, I'm not goingto do these things so I can
sleep.
And we both leaned in.
We both said, Hey, well, we'regoing to hold each other
accountable.
Right.
(39:26):
It was we were brutally honest,right?
On that call.
And it wasn't comfortable, butyou know, it made a difference.
So no.
Speaker 1 (39:34):
And you can get really comfortable with
discomfort over time.
You do it enough.
Speaker (39:39):
Yeah.
You know, it's just a goodfriend of mine, um, Anna Marie
Boss, always says, a little bitof suffering can become
addictive.
You can get used to, you know,that challenge, right?
And pushing through.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
So that's right.
Absolutely.
Scott, let's do this.
I want to cover some basicthings and then I'll answer any
last questions that you mighthave.
Um, just real quick, MuleSoft,we've got almost 10,000 jobs
open on Indeed, Data Cloud, over185,000 jobs nationwide that
are citing data cloud right now.
I don't know if that's true ornot.
CPQ, right around a thousandjobs.
(40:12):
This is so much less than 22,but it's so much better than 24,
25.
So it's not, it's not bad.
They cover some quickdemographics.
Women, female developers, about28%, female admins, about half.
Um, and uh women who areremote, about 61% higher than
men.
That tracks.
I I mean that shouldn't shockanybody.
Um I do have people like, well,there should be 50% of female
(40:37):
developers.
It's like, no, there shouldn't.
Not any more than there shouldbe 50% of nurses should be male.
Um, men like things more thanwomen like things.
Developing is a thing-orientedthing.
Most women lean more towardspeople.
I actually spec to thecategory.
I'm I'm like a man who specsmore to the female interest,
(40:57):
human behavior, and people morethan most guys.
I'm less about things.
Um, so you know, you can crossover both sides, doesn't matter.
Um entry-level reality, uh,with the smallest percentage of
jobs out there, about 9% of jobpostings right now are for entry
level.
Um, there's also a massiveoversupply of entry-level
(41:19):
people.
So people are like, hey, Josh,I'm gonna get my certification
in admin.
I want to be an admin, I wantto do this.
What should I do?
And I'm just gonna tell youright now, just stop.
Just stop with your thinking.
Speaker (41:30):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (41:31):
Just slow down.
You want to get yourcertification, that's fine.
If you're banking on Salesforceas an entry-level admin, you're
probably gonna be um in for arude awakening.
I mean, you could always justlearn acting and go to Hollywood
and make yourself a movie starbecause it's not that different
than trying to do that rightnow.
It's difficult.
It's really difficult.
(41:51):
So if you're not bringing tothe table some other skill set
like you're, you know, dyed inthe wool over a nonprofit,
right?
Or you really understandmilitary and defense, or you've
got a secret clearance, or youknow, you came from an
engineering background, or youused to code C sharp and C, or
you know, something that's gonnagive you some sort of advantage
(42:14):
in the tech market.
I would say that there areother jobs you could do that are
going to be easier to get.
You know, you could also startyour own business on AI.
I mean, you we all hear thesestories like, oh, in four hours
I built a system that makes me$10,000 a month.
Okay.
That's not um everybody, by theway.
(42:34):
But getting really, really goodat that and having all the time
in the world, you you can doit.
You know, you you could do it.
So I'm just dissuading peoplewho have no idea what tech is
about picking Salesforce as thething that they want to get
into.
I'd pick AI in general.
If you want to get an admincert, go for it, but I'd be
careful.
Um, should you get certifiedbefore applying?
(42:56):
Yes.
Contract or full-time, which isbetter.
Well, people were gonna see alot more contract in the next
year.
Anytime we're seeing a slightlyshrinking market, companies are
afraid to overinvest too fast.
So they'll go probably see alittle bit of a bump in contract
hiring in 2026 from 25, Ithink.
Um for sure.
(43:17):
Uh sometimes people are askingme, like, hey Josh, how do I
compete with offshore talent?
Well, you know, one, you eithercompete with them or you don't.
Like, I don't.
You can go get a recruiter for1500 bucks a month.
Good luck with that.
You know, like it's not thesame thing.
Okay, so uh I really wouldn'tworry about that.
(43:37):
If you're in the US and you'rea citizen or a green card, like
just like you've got a you justknow you've got an advantage,
like uh automatically.
Um, as far as which industrycloud has the most opportunity,
I'd say finserve and healthcareare probably the biggest.
Rev cloud's great too.
We're seeing some with fieldservice.
There's a little bit moredemand.
I was just walking down thehall and I saw Brett who I think
(44:00):
just sold um Ner Neuroflash toum to Accenture this year,
right?
So he's like right here in thebuilding sometimes.
Like it's clearly you can growa business like that and sell it
and do quite well.
Um it's not easy, the easiestthing in the world, but special
specializing is just that it'sspecializing.
And you can usually make moremoney as a specialist, but you
(44:21):
can also get cut out faster whentech takes over that specific
sector or the specializationwith unique skill sets no longer
matter.
Um, that kind of thing.
Okay, so 26.
In summary, what can youexpect?
Um more jobs than 25, longertimes to get hired than 25, um,
(44:44):
more layoffs of uh entry-levelor basic repetitive task
employees across the board,across the whole world, not just
in Salesforce.
Um, how do you stay on top ofit and get really good at AI,
starting with getting very goodat prompting, um, taking a good
hard look at yourself, beinghonest, being vulnerable, and
then attacking these specificbehaviors or philosophies that
(45:07):
are holding you back.
So if the philosophy iscorporate America is bad and
you're trying to get a job incorporate America, you now have
a problem.
Okay, you're not gonna winthat.
You're always gonna be inconflict.
And guess what?
If I interviewed you and thatcame across, I'm not gonna hire
you.
Period.
No freaking way, man.
Okay.
If I look up your LinkedIn andyou're bitching and complaining
(45:27):
about the job market all thetime, um, am I gonna hire you?
No.
Why?
Because you're negative.
Why does that matter?
Because there's enough of thatinternally inside all of us
anyway.
Those people repeat, you know,we repeat like 90% of our
thoughts.
We just repeat over and overagain, and the majority of those
are negative thoughts.
Why would we want to bringanyone else into our loop that's
(45:49):
going to just amplify that?
We don't need it.
And the walls calm down,everybody, focus on yourself,
focus on your family, be kind toone another, do good things,
right?
This kind of stuff, do that.
You know, lift people up.
And I like to lift everybody uphere by continuing this live
program.
And my commitment to you isthat I'm not going to screw up
the uh live login like I didthis week.
(46:12):
Boy, did I blow it.
And I'm so embarrassed.
But we'll be back in two weeks.
Um, Scott, any last questionsthat I can answer before you go
ahead and call it a wrap fortoday?
Speaker (46:23):
I actually have one question, really, I think
important.
How long should somebody take,right?
If they're applying for whatperiod of time?
Is it two months, three months,and they're not seeing some
traction, how long should theystop and actually say, hey, this
isn't the market.
This is me.
Right.
(46:43):
I I'm asking this questionbecause I actually ran into
somebody quite a few years ago.
And she told me, she goes, I'vebeen looking for a job 14
months.
And I said, Whoa.
I go, number one, I'm not sureyou should tell anybody that.
And number two, what are youdoing?
And I found that she was, shewasn't in Salesforce ecosystem,
she wasn't in anything.
I said, like, you have to beintentional.
(47:04):
Like you're going to just keepdoing this for years.
And I I helped her, mentoredher, and I got her a job.
I said, I told her what to doand what to be intentional.
But a lot of people might bestarting to go for six months
and they're not realizing, hey,now it's time to go for a walk,
or or when is it time to take aserious look at what's going
wrong and say, hey, maybe itcould be what I'm doing or my
(47:26):
mindset or something else.
So what is your timeline there?
Do you usually think?
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Yeah, day one.
Day one right away.
Yeah.
Like, do you like here's thething?
You run an email campaign, youdo some A-B testing, you're
gonna know inside an hour whatemails are what, you know, what
subject line's getting opened ornot.
Right?
Speaker (47:46):
Right.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
Like if you don't like here's the thing.
First of all, if you have to gohit the open market, in other
words, if recruiters aren'tcontacting you with viable jobs
that you're qualified for, thatyou would say yes to, that pay
what you want and you're doingwhat you want, you already have
a problem.
Right.
Like if if I have a businessand people aren't referring
(48:10):
people to me and companiesaren't calling me up and saying,
hey Josh, I need some help.
I found you online or whatever.
Um, can you help us hire thisperson?
If if the only way I can getbusiness is by cold calling or
hunting and pecking and tryingto meet new people all the time,
I've already got a problem.
Right?
So, unless you're in three orfour high-quality conversations
(48:32):
with several different companiesabout jobs that you really
want, then you've already got achallenge.
And you should start looking atyourself right away.
Okay.
And the first thing that Iwould look at is what have I
done from a decision-makingstandpoint on my job
transitions?
Like, have I jumped chip toooften, been fired too
frequently?
Right?
Start there.
And then you need to do somereal deep dive, talk to a
(48:53):
therapist or someone, and figureout what is it about you that
has you accidentally creatinghostility or pointing blame at
others that makes you someonethat other people don't want to
work with.
Okay.
So that's part of it.
Okay, sometimes things just badthings happen, can happen three
times in a row, but they don'thappen five times in a row.
(49:14):
So if it's four or five timeswith you, it's it's I promise
you, if you every place thatyou've worked at, worked at is
quote unquote toxic, you're thetoxic person.
You're the toxic person.
Crazy, batshit, crazy person.
It's you, okay.
Speaker (49:31):
Sorry.
No, I mean so it's true.
Speaker 1 (49:34):
So start right away.
So start right away, okay?
Next thing, look at yourresume.
Um, what would you earn if yougot a job in 30 days for the
subsequent five months?
And what would you earn if youdidn't get a job for six more
months?
You need to take an appropriatepeople are like, oh, I'm gonna
buy an engagement ring.
It's three months' salary.
It's like, well, how much wouldyou spend to get a job?
(49:55):
A life coach from Tony Robbins,maybe, or People First um uh
methodology, you know, trainingcourse with with John Quine, or
you know, Jules Bracy DeMaio,expert job hunter, if you're
director level and above, expertat job hunting, LinkedIn and
resumes.
Like if if you're not spending,it's like if you're not
(50:18):
spending money on advertising,you're wondering why you're not
selling anything, then you'vegot a problem.
So you've got to spend toreceive.
So think, and you're eitherspending your time and
expertise.
My guess is you don't have theexpertise.
Okay.
So that means you have to spendsome money, you know, to
consult with people.
I mean, I'll I I do it for freefor people sometimes.
And sometimes people like Josh,I really need your help.
I'm like, great, it's 500 bucksan hour.
(50:39):
You know, you're gonna walkaway with stuff that you could
have learned by listening to myshow for free, but that's what
it costs, right?
So, but find people who aregonna point you in the right
direction, make your resumeshine.
Here's the other thing you haveto ask yourself, am I getting
invitations, but that I'mbombing in interviews?
(50:59):
Right?
Or am I, you know, not gettingany invitations.
So if you're gettinginvitations, a lot of them, your
resume and LinkedIn are okay.
If you're not getting pushed tosecond and third rounds,
there's either a problem withyour interviewing, or there's a
problem with your ability toarticulate, or your resume is
(51:20):
full of crap, and you over, youknow, sort of like painted a
slightly more favorable pictureof yourself than your actual
experience can hold up underpressure, under a live interview
pressure.
Do you see what I mean?
So there's a lot of adjustmentshere.
We're not going to solve itright now, but that's what I
(51:40):
would be doing.
I'd start day one.
Speaker (51:44):
That's really good.
I mean, I think that's actuallyeven more than I would have
said.
I would have said, hey, give ittwo months, and if you're not
getting some traction, butyou're saying just be honest
with yourself, right?
If if you sent up something andyou're not getting any traction
back, evaluate what's wrong,right?
And you gave really practicalum insights there, right?
If you're sending out a resumeand you're not getting any
(52:05):
invitations, then that's theproblem.
If you are getting invitations,but yet you've had 10
interviews and you weren't ableto get a job, then you need to
work on that skill.
Very, yeah, that's with this.
Very good insights.
Speaker 1 (52:18):
That's what's up, man.
All right, guys.
Thank you for being on theshow, Scott.
And uh thanks for everybodywho's listening to this program.
We're going to uh be back intwo weeks.
I'm not exactly sure what we'regonna cover, but I have a
feeling that I want to talkabout how the Salesforce career
ladder is broken.
Okay.
Salesforce career ladder isbroken.
So that'll hopefully offer evendeeper insights into how to uh
(52:40):
hire, better, grow your career.
Uh again, check us out on umBuzzSprout.
You can check us out on um uhApple Podcasts, Spotify, the
Josh Force channel on YouTube.
This will be up probably inabout a week, something like
that.
So you can check that out.
You can also check it rightback here on LinkedIn.
If you're listening to thisprogram and you want to see me
(53:02):
and Scott's uh mugs um yappingaway, you can just go to
LinkedIn or go to YouTube.
Okay, until then, take care.
Good luck, everybody.
Bye, and have a great 26.
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