Stop Hiring People You Like: The 2026 Guide to AI & Data Talent

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Are you hiring for "culture fit" or for outcomes? In 2026, that distinction will determine if your Salesforce team sinks or swims.

Most hiring managers are falling into the "Mirror-tocracy" trap—hiring people just like them instead of the talent they actually need. In Part 2 of our ecosystem outlook, Josh Matthews and Scott Stafford reveal why "gut feel" is a career-killer and how the hiring landscape has shifted.

If you want to build a high-performing team that can actually orchestrate AI, you have to change how you interview.

In this episode:

• The 20% Rule: Why paying more for "Orchestrators" saves you $100k in the long run.
• The Live Prompt Test: A simple, 2-minute tactical test to see if a candidate is faking their AI skills.
• Data Literacy vs. AI: Why your AI will break if your new hire doesn't understand data relevance.
• The Tom Graber Story: How a "weird" first impression led to one of the best hires in Josh’s 35-year career.
• Merit vs. Familiarity: Practical steps to override your brain's hiring bias.

Featured Opportunity: We are currently hiring for a Salesforce Marketing/Data Cloud Pro (Chicago/Hybrid). View details at thesalesforcerecruiter.com.

Connect with the Show:

• YouTube: Joshforce Channel
• Web: thesalesforcerecruiter.com

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Hiring Edge, the podcast helping
leaders navigate the age of AI,create teams that thrive, and
build a workplace people neverwant to leave.
My name is Josh Matthews.
I'm here with my co-host, ScottStafford.
Scott Stafford is an incrediblesolution architect here in the
ecosystem.
We are so excited.
Gabby loves her avocados.
That's great.
We are so excited to be here forwhat is part two of a discussion

(00:22):
about the talent and uh theSalesforce talent ecosystem, the
hiring ecosystem.
What's happening?
There's so much going on.
It's 2026.
We've got AI, we've got layoffs,we've got mass hirings, we've
got mass firings.
There's so much to unpack.
And last week, what did we do?
Well, we unpacked a lot, butwithout our live audience, that
was on me.
I didn't hit a button that I wassupposed to do, or I hit a

(00:44):
button that I wasn't supposedto.
And it kind of jacked it all up.
But here's the good news inabout 28 minutes on YouTube, on
the Josh Force channel, thatepisode is going to be
available, but a little bitbetter quality than you would
find right here on LinkedIn.
So make sure that you go aheadand check that out if you want
to catch up on what ourrecommendations were for people
in the ecosystem who are lookingto protect their careers and

(01:07):
advance their careers in 2026.
So today, Scott and I are reallyinterested in unpacking a few
things.
The first part of this programis really going to be talking
about something that we didn'tcover much last week, Scott,
which is really hiring managers.
Who are the people that arebringing people on?

(01:28):
Like what can they expect in2026 and what can they do to
adapt in 2026 when they'relooking at protecting or
expanding their team?
So I think we did mention lastweek that there are going to be
likely fewer, fewer hires ingeneral, not fewer than 2024.

(01:50):
We are seeing an increase, agrowth in demand for Salesforce
professionals.
But we're going to see teamseither stay the same through
attrition, right?
Like instead of increasing a lotof headcount, they're more
likely to hire fewer people.
But if you want the top people,the people that can do that

(02:10):
orchestration that we talkedabout last week, they're
probably going to be looking atpaying a little bit more, 10,
20% more to get a top performer.
Now, hiring managers are like,yeah, that's great, Josh, but my
budget's my budget.
What am I going to do?
Unless you're the owner or theCFO.
You might have other people inyour company weighing in on what

(02:31):
you actually get to spend.
And so you're going toabsolutely want to make a case
for what output looks like.
What are the outcomes that thecompany is actually paying for
versus the headcount?
Does that make sense, Scott?

SPEAKER_01 (02:46):
That makes sense.
We're kind of raising the bar.
So you're trying to say you'regoing to pay a little bit more,
but we want to really understandwhat you're getting, right?
What is the value that peopleare bringing to the table,
right, in this beginning of2026?
I love that.

SPEAKER_00 (03:01):
That's right.
Yeah.
So just be aware, you may havechallenges if you've got a bit
of a stuffy accountingdepartment or HR department or
senior manager that can't seethe value.
You're going to have to come upwith some pretty darn good word
tracks to articulate and provewhy it might make more sense to

(03:22):
spend$175,000 on an employeeinstead of$150,000 on the same
employee because you might get40 or 50 or 60% more output
because of their capabilities,their ability to orchestrate AI,
their ability to understand dataand protect the organization

(03:42):
from massive, massive goof ups.
So that's definitely going to beone aspect of the reality moving
into 2026.
A little bit more of a delay onhiring, slower hiring, because
people are like, and I see thiswith all of my clients, they're
like, look, we just want tomake, we're in a rush, but we
don't want to make a baddecision.

(04:03):
People are like, hey, oncebitten, twice shy.
I feel like enough people nowhave made bad hiring decisions
in their careers.
The ones who are left in hiringpositions, they've made enough
mistakes.
They just don't want to makeanother one.
And the reality is, is if youmake a bad hire, it's on you to

(04:27):
feel the pain, right?
And your boss doesn'tnecessarily feel the pain you
do.
It's okay to make a bad hire.
It's not okay to make two orthree bad hires in a row.
So you've got to protectyourself as a hiring manager and
approach this as a careeropportunity for you, not just to
grow the team, not just to solvethe challenges that the company

(04:49):
has put under your purview.
It's to actually augment yourcareer.
I don't know if you know this,but most people know that people
who hire really well tend togrow their careers and advance.
So if you're a director and youwant to be a VP, hire a great
team that can replace you.
If you're a VP and you want tobe in the C-suite, well, build a
great team underneath you.

(05:09):
If you want to stay exactlywhere you are, make average
hiring decisions.
And if you want to lose yourmanagerial title, then make
really bad hiring decisions.
There you go, there's theplaybook.
And guess what?
It's not just for 2026.
This is this is for life.
Now, with that in mind, yeah.
Look, I really want to make surethat people, and by the way,

(05:32):
thanks everybody for joining us.
It's great to see some friendshere.
Gabby and and uh Anthony, Corey,thanks for joining us today.
I want people to be able to walkaway with some like real, actual
things they can do to prevent.
I think we're muted there, Josh.
My God, how long have I beenmuted?
Well, I just said the best stuffof my life.
So we're gonna dive in rightnow, I think, a little bit more

(05:55):
about what you should be lookingat in a tactical way.
And that is data literacy.

unknown (06:00):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (06:01):
So when you're interviewing, there's two things
that I want hiring managers toreally take into consideration
for 2026.
And one is data literacy, andthe other one is AI literacy,
and they do go hand in hand.
Reality is if the data literacyisn't there, then the AI breaks.
Right?
Does that make sense to you,Scott?

(06:21):
You're my 27x expert here on theshow.

SPEAKER_01 (06:25):
AI is all of the foundation for AI, right, is all
about data, right?
And it's really important thatyou right, not just get excited
about AI, but make sure you alsoget excited about bringing data
in there that's actuallyaccurate and actionable, right?
That it's you're seeingSalesforce make a lot of
acquisitions, right, to enhancetheir products.

(06:47):
So it's really key.
Data is really exciting, right?
It's our way to understand theworld, right?
So I really love that.

SPEAKER_00 (06:54):
Yeah, it is, man.
I look, I'm actually in themiddle of my very first
Salesforce migration right now.
Can you believe that?
I mean, I've been doing, I'vebeen working with Salesforce
since 1999.
This is I've been a part of someum uh implementations at Big
Fortune 500s before.

(07:15):
And of course, I helped to helpa lot of SI partners out there
and customers out there to havethe best people to help them do
it.
But this is Salesforcestaffing's very first instance
of Salesforce.
And I do want to do a quickshout out.
I want to thank Dave Schwartz,Taylor Williams, and Mike Rowe
over at Assemble, A S Y-M-B-L.

(07:36):
They are the organization thathas really helped me with my
Salesforce instance.
They've done an incredible job.
And I also want to thank, I wantto thank Glenn Goodman.
He's my data migration guy, aclose friend of mine, fantastic
solution architect.
He's with ProCetra.
That's his organization basedhere in Florida.
So I want to just do a littleshout out to all of those people

(07:59):
for making what is, as everybodyalready knows, kind of a
stressful, it's kind of astressful thing, switching your
software after so many years andtrying to learn it and get it
dialed in.
But everybody's been reallypatient with me.
And I just want to say thank youso much for all of the hard
work.
So let's talk about um dataliteracy a little bit more,
right?

(08:19):
So, what would you say, Scott,if you're trying to gauge how
literate someone is withunderstanding like where data
lives, where it moves, how itcan break.
What kinds of questions wouldyou be asking candidates to
gauge their understanding?

SPEAKER_01 (08:35):
First thing is I would try to vet whether they
actually understand theimportance of data, right?
You you just kind of talk tothat a little bit, right?
You said, hey, I'm actuallydoing my first implementation,
and then it really comes home.
You're like, okay, it's not justabout the software, right?
But you got to make sure thatall the data gets moved and gets
moved accurately.

(08:56):
And then I think I would diveinto asking them about data
cloud, right?
And see whether they'reinterested in learning more,
right, about how Salesforce isgoing to be able to bring in all
your actionable data, right,right into your program.
Data cloud is something that I'mreally passionate about.
I think it's a pretty goodplatform, right?
They're moving in the rightdirection, right?

(09:18):
And more and more you're hearingthat people really need to, you
know, be able to move in thedata.
And I just want to make a littlecall out.
I actually listened to Lights onData by George.
And he goes over a lot of thefundamental principles.
And it really helps me tounderstand, hey, a little bit
more, what's so magical aboutdata and why do we need to

(09:38):
understand the principles to beable to bring it together and
make it actionable?

SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
Sure.
So, what is an actual questionyou would ask?
Let's give our audiencesomething that they can ask.
Let's say someone's hiring aconsultant, like this person's
gonna have their hands on thekeys to the kingdom.
We got to make sure that it'snot a bust, right?
What would you, what would youhave them ask?
I know I'm kind of putting youon the spot.
We didn't really prep for this,but I am kind of interested.

(10:05):
What would you ask to help youunderstand if someone that
you're going to potentially hireunderstands data in a general
way, understands the importanceof it, et cetera?

SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Yeah, I think I would start out trying to ask
some questions about whetherthey understand data relevance.
Data actually becomes um oldreally quickly, and a lot of
people don't understand that.
So I would ask some of thosekind of questions.
And then I would also ask aboutmaking sure that they understand
to keep it safe in governance.
Right now in the Salesforceecosystem, we have a lot of

(10:36):
security issues, right?
My good friend Matt Myers,right, is always pointing out
all of the different breaches.
So those two things really hithome for me is making sure that
you know how to keep it safe,have the right permissions,
right, set up, right?
And understand that.
And then also understand youdon't want necessarily all the
data there as you're doing yourmigration right now.

(10:58):
You're probably thinking that Idon't need stuff from 15 years
ago.
The world is moving very quick,right?
And that you need to know whatis relevant, right?

SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
And then you need to keep it safe.
Okay, very good.
Thank you, Scott Stafford.
I appreciate that.
I was thinking a little bitabout um sort of the next thing
that I want to make sure hiringmanagers are clued into.
And by the way, if you're not ahiring manager and you're
listening to this, that's a goodthing.
You should understand theperspective of the people that
you're going to be engaging withand the perspective of maybe

(11:28):
your current boss, your currentmanager.
And that is around AI literacy.
And I'm going to get real basic,right?
I mean, yeah, there's AgentForest, there's so much to it.
So when I say AI literacy, Ijust mean basic ability to
navigate LLMs, right?
To understand why I would useperplexity over Manis, over
Gemini, over Chat GPT, overClaude, like what are the

(11:52):
differences between these LLMs?
How are you using them, right?
Honestly, like in what wayswould you use them?
And then how to find out veryquickly if someone understands
how to prompt engineer, like ina very reasonable way.
Because the reality is, is we'vebeen prompt engineering for 30

(12:12):
months now, longer for manypeople, but the general public,
like Gen Pop, it's about 30months, right, since uh GPT kind
of hit our desks.
And it's gotten better at kindof guessing what you're trying
to get after.
But if you haven't gotten betterat how to communicate with it,
well, then you're leaving a lotof good information on the table
and you're also going to createa lot more hallucinations and

(12:35):
bad information, right?
In a very big way.
So I was thinking it would makesense for anyone who you're
considering bringing on the uhthe team is to just ask them,
give them, give them somethingto something to prompt, right?
Anything.
Right?
Could be like, hey, um, youknow, it could be uh, I don't

(13:00):
know, you come up withsomething, Scott.
We've got a new puppy.
I'm barely sleeping, so mybrain's a little bit dead.

SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Like a second parent there with a new puppy.
I think you could actually justgo with that.
Prompt something about right howto take care of a puppy.
There you go.
Yeah, it could literally be likegive you some good advice and
see how right, how actionableyou know, they're able to get
that to come out.

SPEAKER_00 (13:23):
That's right.
Okay, I love it.
Now, what you do is you havethem just say it to you.
Here you are.
Like we're on live.
I'm looking at you, you'relooking at me.
I see you, you see me.
Let's talk.
And I can just say, okay, Scott,I want you to pretend that
you're doing voice-to-textprompt.
I'm the GPT or whatever it,whatever LLM you're using, and I

(13:44):
want to hear what your promptwould sound like.
Okay.
Now, you can't decipher theiranswer if you suck at prompting.
And yes, Gabby, I will get you apicture of the puppy, her name's
Zucca, which means pumpkin inItalian.
So the reality is, is you've gotto know this.
Like, what are the four or fiveor six things that someone

(14:04):
should be doing to write ahighly effective prompt to get
them really good information andhave them do it?
If they say, Hi, I'm new topuppy ownership, tell me what I
should know, it's not very good,right?
It'll be a little bit better ifthey say, you are a
world-renowned dog trainer thatspecializes in new owners of

(14:27):
puppies, right?
At least start there, like sortof set the stage.
I'm not going to go into all ofthis stuff because, first of
all, you should all know thisalready.
And if you don't get after it,go figure it out.
Okay.
But you should be definitelychecking to see if this person
that you're going to give moneyto knows how to get accurate,
clear answers quickly, becauseit's all right there at our
little fingertips, right?

(14:48):
I mean, come on.
Let's let's figure this out.

SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
What I love about where you've taken this too is
you've shown us both sides ofthe view, people that are
actually looking for a job, andthen you're showing it right
from the hiring manager'sperspective.

SPEAKER_00 (15:02):
This is really great.
If you're going in for aninterview, let's say you're
coming into an interview withme, and I say, Hey, what's your
relationship with AI?
And you say, Oh, it's good.
I go, okay, well, tell me aboutit.
And like, well, yeah, I use GPTevery day.
I'm like, great.
What do you use it for?
And then often what I hear isbasically they use it like

(15:24):
Google.
Nothing wrong with that.
I do too, right?
Nothing wrong with that.
But I'm not hearing like, oh, Imake custom GPTs or I'm running
projects with hierarchies likethis, that, and the other thing,
or I'm doing deep, deep researchfor these reasons using
perplexity and so on and soforth.
So I'm gonna ask them what thatis.
I might also ask them, why wouldyou use Claude over GPT?

(15:48):
Or why would you use, why wouldyou use Gemini over Claude and
so on, or why would you useperplexity?
Like if you don't know where togo, that's a that's a challenge.
Why are you interviewing in theage of AI and you can't even
describe what the differencesare?
That's like not being able tosay the difference between AM
and FM radio back in 1982.

(16:08):
Like, come on, let's do it.
Let's figure it out, right?
Okay, let's move on.
I want to make sure, by the way,and I love seeing our friends
here with their comments.
Okay, so what do you think aboutall of that?
The whole like kind of justchecking for prompting in 2026
if you're a hiring manager.
Makes sense, Scott?

SPEAKER_01 (16:26):
Yeah, I actually think it's really important too
that you bring this into yourown life, like like you did with
your dog, right?
Don't just think about it fromwork, but use it, right?
Use it for all the differentreasons.
Understand why you would use oneversus the other, right?
What's the advantage?
Play around a little bit, right?
Yeah, I think we're we're in theage, it's not like ChatGBK came

(16:46):
on the scene, everybody startedthere, but there is a lot of
different models out there,right?
And each one has their ownadvantage.
I also like the way this wholeshow is going.
I mean, you you started outsaying, hey, you're gonna
actually be able to get a higherpremium, right?
Hiring managers are gonna needto justify why they're paying
more money.
So if you think about thatbackwards, right, you then start

(17:09):
to think, hey, I need to be ableto demonstrate in that
interview, right, what skills Ihave that makes me more
efficient than I was before.
And that's really what we'retalking about, right?
And make sure you take action onit.
Don't just do the trailhead, butjust say, hey, I'm looking for
some, you know, whetherinformation on a dog or
something else in your life, andthen check out a few different

(17:30):
sources, see what comes up.
Yeah, do that.

SPEAKER_00 (17:34):
I like it.
Okay.
So we've covered um a few thingsthat hiring managers uh could
do.
Let's talk a little bit aboutsome of the things that will
never ever really change as ahiring manager because it does
not matter if it's 2026, itdoesn't matter if it's um 2036,
doesn't matter if it's 1926.

(17:55):
The reality is we as humans arebiased.
I've talked about confirmationbias on other shows with Vanessa
in the past.
I think it stands to reason tobring it up again right now.
I was I've been listening tothis book, um, I hate the Ivy
Leagues.
It's actually a sort ofconglomeration of Malcolm

(18:17):
Gladwell podcasts, and it's ait's fascinating.
Like I really like Gladwell.
And specifically, he was talkingabout what it takes to get to
work at a top law firm.
And it really comes down to howwell you can answer 25 questions
in 35 minutes on your LSAT.
That 35 minutes will determinewhether or not you get into one

(18:38):
of the top 14 law schools, likeYale and Harvard.
And then if you go to one ofthose places, that's where the
top firms hire from, it allcomes down to this 35 minutes,
all BS, like it's total BS.
Like it's the studies show thatgoing to Harvard or Michigan or
going to Whittier Collegedoesn't necessarily produce a

(19:02):
different quality of um ofattorney.
Like it's that's the that's whatthe facts say.
It just doesn't matter.
But there's this idea of likehow to make it easy, how to make
it like how do we hone in on thebest people first, how do we
help improve our hiring outcome,right?

(19:22):
By looking at education orlooking at total certifications
or this kind of thing.
And it got me thinking a lotabout um something else he was
talking about, which was amiratocracy instead of a
meritocracy, right?
Meritocracy, people know what ameritocracy is, is like, you
know, merit earns benefits,period.
Like that's basically what itis, right?

(19:43):
Or if you're better atsomething, then you rise to the
top.
A meritocracy is kind of just afunny way of talking about how
we look for people that are likeus and then we hire them, right?
And that got me thinking deeplyabout bias and comfort,
familiarity, and how we makethese massive mistakes in our

(20:05):
careers as a hiring manager, asan employee.
We do it all the time.
I've got a I've got a friend ofmine.
This person's, I'm guessing, inhis 40s, he's middle-aged, very,
very smart, very high achievingprofessional in technology.
Love working with him when Ihave the chance to.

(20:26):
I consider him a friend as well.
I was talking to him and he'scurrently employed at a place
that is his, he's got the bestboss he's ever had.
He's paid really, really well.
And the company is extremely lowon politics.
Best he's ever seen in his life.

(20:47):
Now he's worked in some highstakes, high pressure
environments with a lot ofstress, and he is not feeling
very comfortable right now.
It's the best it could be, andyet he's not feeling comfortable
because that's not what he'sused to, right?
You take the traumatized childand put them in a stable home,

(21:07):
it's not gonna feel supercomfortable.
They're still gonna be waitingfor the freaking shoe to drop.
Do you know what I mean?
Like this is just how humanbehavior operates.
But it's hard for us to breakout of that if we're not
actually doing what isuncomfortable for us.
Right?

(21:28):
I think he should stayuncomfortable where there's low
politics and a great boss and alot of opportunity.
That's what I think.
Doesn't necessarily mean that'swhat's going to happen, but
that's what I think.
And I think that we can createfor ourselves a new experience
of what comfortable and familiaris.
Because the reality is whetheryou're a puppy or a human, we're

(21:50):
going to gravitate towards whatis comfortable.
And that just means what isfamiliar.
And let's face it, familiar isnot always great.
Who here thinks, let's see uhSome thumbs up if you think that
familiar is great.
All the time.
I'd like to see that.
I'm telling you, I don't thinkit is.
And so my challenge to hiringmanagers as well as to

(22:11):
candidates and employees outthere is when you feel
particularly comfortable with acandidate that you're
considering bringing on, I wantyou to just pause, just take a
breath and ask yourself whyyou're particularly comfortable
with this person.

(22:31):
I had an interview yesterdaywith a really neat guy.
He and I both rode crew in highschool, different, different uh
states, but we both rode crew.
We had a lot in common.
We had a lot to talk about.
Does that mean he's the bestemployee?
I mean, he could be a greatemployee.
He probably is a great employee,but I can't let our familiarity
with this weird little sportthat very few people do, you

(22:52):
know, uh sway my considerationof him for a role.
Can I?
I can't do that.
That would be wrong.
Can't do that, right?
And yet people do it all thetime.
Now, I I don't do it becauseI've done this 15,000 times and
I know how to say no and I knowhow to separate it.
But for those who've only had10, 20, 50, or 100 at bats of
interviewing people, it'sreally, really hard.

(23:14):
It's like go play golf.
All you get to do is practice100 golf swings before you go
play golf.
Like ever.
It's gonna be hard to hit theball.
Do you see what I mean?
So I just really want people tobe very careful about this.
Just ask yourself the simplequestion.
If you're really comfortable, ifyou're totally gelling with
people, just ask yourself why.

(23:34):
Is it because this person'sgoing to perform at a high level
and do for the team what theteam needs it to do and what the
company needs them to do?
Or is it because there's somesort of, you know, common
ground, instant rapport.
Instant rapport does not equateinstant results, by the way.
Just so everybody knows, it getsconflated.

(23:55):
And it's good to like people,but I want people to think too
about like you go buy a recordback in the days when we would
buy a record or a tape, becauseyou heard one song and you like
that song, but that song kind ofburnt out quickly.
And eventually some of the morecomplex songs on the album are
the ones that stuck with youlonger.
Well, hiring employees is nodifferent than that, right?

(24:19):
Just because you don't like thesong on first interview, second
interview, third interviewdoesn't mean you don't respect
the song or that you won't giveit a chance.
I want people to give thoseother songs a chance because the
reality is you're dealing withcoin flip odds, that's a one in
two chance that the person thatyou feel comfortable with is not
going to be in that seat in 12to 18 months.

(24:40):
That's the stats.
That's reality.
Wake up to it and don't let itinhibit you.
Don't let it um interfere withyour excellent decision-making
skills.
And your excellentdecision-making skills aren't
relying on your gut feel.
Gut feel is BS.
It's total BS.
Guys, it's total BS.
Everyone here, unless you're inthe last relationship with

(25:02):
someone that you'll ever be infor the rest of your life,
already know that your gut feelis wrong a lot.

SPEAKER_01 (25:09):
I can hear that.

SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Right?
I mean, unless you fell in lovein high school and now you're
with still with that same person10, 20, 30, 40 years later, your
gut feel can't predict thefuture.
It just can't.
Right?
There was a really funny quote.
It's like, uh, I think it waslike Yogi Berra said something
like, Yeah, predictions areoften wrong, especially those
about the future.

(25:30):
I love that quote.
Something close to that.
So here's what you do.
Okay, let's get down real uhnitty-gritty and practical.
And it's this when you reallylike someone, I want you to
pause and say, okay, why do Ilike them?
And I want you to find reasonsto not like that person.

unknown (25:45):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (25:46):
Because as soon as you like them, you're gonna sort
of shut down from digging in,like, I like this person.
Like, I don't wanna, I don'twant to poke holes in this.
This could be the one.
I've already met 10 people.
This this could be the one.
Don't mess it up.
And if you really don't likesomeone, I want you to work
really hard, really, really hardto find out one or two reasons

(26:08):
why you should really like them.
Don't let go.
Don't get sour on them.
Don't decide, oh yeah, no, Idon't like this person.
Right?
I really want you to go, okay.
I'm not feeling like I like thisperson.
I'm not feeling super confidentin this person right now.
I'm gonna try somethingdifferent.
And I'm gonna, you know, maybeI'm just gonna say something

(26:30):
like, hey, you know what, Scott?
We've talked a little bit aboutyour interests and hobbies,
we've talked a little bit aboutmine, we've talked about how you
approach work, we've talked alittle bit about how I approach
work.
And I think it's fair for us tojust say that they're a little
bit different, right?

SPEAKER_01 (26:44):
Yeah, I think I also see that that what you're saying
too is the reflect on the factthat you don't always get, you
know, get along with somebody,but I've actually um actually
learned the most, right, andbeen affected right by people
that I had to work with.
And I go, wow, uh, I didn'tactually think I like them, but
I actually they affected my lifemore than ever.

(27:06):
And I think that really goesalong like when you're a hiring
manager.
Sometimes you get a team, andyour job is to actually refine
that team and bring out the bestin people, whether or not
they're totally a clone of you.
You have to understand who theyare, right?
And then make the best of them.
And then the same thing whenyou're hiring somebody, right?
You know, I get what you weresaying there.

(27:27):
Like there's a lot of peoplethat just mess with me really,
you know.
I say, hey, I like jogging, Ilike this.
Some people say, Hey, I likethis sport, but that I usually
learn from people who are notlike me.

SPEAKER_00 (27:37):
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
I'll I'm gonna tell a quickstory about my friend Tom
Graber.
Tom Graber was on this podcast.
He was on the podcast about 12,13 months ago, and he passed
away one year ago.
Tom was a very good friend ofmine.
We worked together at RobertHalf.
We were both division directors.
He went on to um work for someamazing companies, Amazon,

(27:57):
Google, and these sorts ofplaces, Apple.
And he did some wonderful work.
He's one of the smartest,funniest people I've ever met in
my life.
It was literally like sittingnext to Robin Williams every
single day of work.
I mean, just a brilliant guy.
But when I first interviewedhim, very first time he came in,
and this was in downtownPortland, and he came in and sat

(28:17):
down, and he kind of did the umbig guy in the room pose.
He put his hands on the back ofhis head and he kind of leaned
back and he's like, Well, Josh,you know, I'll tell you.
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And he's like telling me thesestories.
And he's that's just like thebig, the big uh silverbag in the
room, right?
And I kind of liked what he wassaying, but I was honestly
shocked that he got thatcomfortable that fast in my

(28:43):
space.
I thought it was a little bitweird.
Now he was older than me andhe'd been an IT director, but I
thought it was really weird, butI thought there was something in
him.
Now, I could have just beenlike, dude, I don't know what's
up with that guy.
And I even had other peopleinterview him and say, like,
yeah, man, I don't know.
I don't know about that guy.
Well, I just told Tom, I said,Hey, Tom, can I tell you

(29:05):
something?
He's like, Yeah, Josh, what'sup?
I said, You came in, you satdown.
I practically thought you weregonna put your feet up on the
table.
You threw your, your, yourclasped hands behind your head,
leaned back.
It's like, I don't know, man.
It didn't feel like there wasany deference.
It felt like you were trying toexert some sort of dominant.

(29:25):
I just hit him with it straightup.
It was like, exert some sort ofdominance um when you came to
this room.
And I I just want to tell you,it was weird.
It was just really weird.
Did you intend to do that?
And he was like, he was like, ohmy god.
Oh my God, I am so sorry.
I totally see what you mean.
I can't believe I did that.

(29:47):
And then he told like two orthree jokes in a row, made me
laugh my ass off, and that wasit.
I was sold on Tom Graber.
But what I did is I gave him thechance.
I saw this weird thing.
I had this instant, honestly,like like, but a lot of dislike
up front.
And I was just like, yeah, Idon't know.
But I bit my tongue and then Iunbit it and I told him exactly

(30:07):
what I was thinking.
I gave him a chance to correctwhat was this not very good
first impression.
And he is hands down like one ofthe top three people I've ever
worked with in uh whatever it'sbeen, 35 years of working.
An incredible, incredible guy.

(30:28):
And I'm just grateful that I hithit it head on with him.
And I hope all you hiringmanagers do that too.
And same also for you candidatesthat are going to be
interviewing here in 2026.
To give these people that areinterviewing you a chance,
right?
Give them a chance.

(30:49):
Okay.
All right, that's all I reallywanted to say about that.
I do want to digress for acouple of minutes.
Uh, we're 40 minutes into thehour.
And I wanted to touch on twothings.
First, I want to let everybodyknow that you can go to
thesalesforcerecruiter.com.
That's my company.
If you didn't know, that's mycompany.
Go to the salesforcerecruiter.com and click on jobs,
and you're gonna see a number ofuh openings that we have.

(31:09):
We've got a new one just lastnight.
We're looking for a SalesforceMarketing Cloud slash data cloud
pro.
This is developer slash lightarchitect level to work for a
$300 million company in theChicago area.
It's hybrid, you're gonna haveto live there.
Okay.
Probably not gonna berelocation.
But there's the data again,right?
It's becoming very relevant.
That's right.

(31:30):
Um, also, we've got a Salesforceconsultant role.
It's really an interesting rolebecause you're not, you know, we
we want to know that you canbuild, you know, and configure.
That's all great, but really,this is gonna be more
client-facing and requirementsgathering for a number of
different clients in salesservice, experience, cloud,
Midwest company, fully remote,lovely people.

(31:52):
Great job.
Great job.
Okay.
That's gonna be in that 120 to130, 135k plus some bonus.
Um, those are the two jobs thatI wanted to highlight today.
We've got others on there.
Again, theSalesforceRecruiter.com, and
then just click on jobs andyou'll see these.
It's easy apply, just uploadyour resume and off you go.
Okay.
All right.
Scott, I do before we move on tosome other information on

(32:13):
today's program, I do want toask you what's going on in the
world of Salesforce?
You've got some updates for us.

SPEAKER_01 (32:19):
Yeah, what's really big right in my life, and I want
to bring right some big thingsthat are happening.
Be right human, be relatable.
So, right now, you guys have anopportunity.
There is a lot of people, right,in our ecosystem that have done
a lot of incredible things.
And you have the opportunity,right, to until February 20th,

(32:41):
nominate somebody for aSalesforce NBP.
And I think this is not justabout, you know, helping them,
it's also about helping you.
When you recommend somebody andyou take a minute and say, hey,
you know, what has stood out forme in the last year?
Who has checked my life?

(33:01):
It gives you an opportunity toreflect on that, right?
And then to benchmark that andsay, hey, that's what I want to
do, right?
I want to be generous.
I want to share my knowledge.
So that's happening.
And the links for these, Iactually put on a little link
right off of my uh LinkedInpage.
So I have a really niceclickable link for all of these
different ones that arehappening.

(33:23):
And then I know a lot of us,right, want to um be wise with
our money.
And there's a lot of people arethinking, hey, I'm gonna be
going out the TDX.
Right now, you can sign up atthe early bird special for only
$199, right?
And that is just an incredibledeal, right?
It's about ready to jump up.
They don't actually define howlong this window is gonna be

(33:44):
open, they just said wallsupplies last.
But for me, giving uh virtuallyright it for you know the price
of a dreaming event, right, isan incredible opportunity.
So that's something.
And then I have my little bookhere, right?
I got it from Mealsoft, and I'mgonna call out a few other
really fun things that arehappening.
If you're in the nonprofitspace, right, we do have

(34:07):
nonprofit dreaming.
It is coming up in Charlotte onMarch 25th, 27th.
And here's a little tidbit.
If you happen to be going there,I have a really good friend,
right, that would love to meeteverybody.
Her name is Melissa Hildees.
She has a heart of gold.
She's fantastic, and she is justincredible.
You might have seen me onlinecalling out um Rise with Voice

(34:29):
Next Boot Camp.
That is happening on March 10thand 12th, 6 p.m.
Eastern.
And you can sign up for thatboot camp on our website, rise
with voice.com.
There's a link.
And then release readiness,right?
There is a lot of incredibleright material, right?
And I put the link right off ofmy post there of where you can

(34:51):
watch some videos.
I I love to read a lot of thecontent, but sometimes it's fun
just to you know catch a littleenergy from somebody.
They're excited about the newrelease, they bring that to you
rather than just reading throughall of the material.
So that's what I think is reallyexcited.
And definitely make sure thatyou guys take a minute, right?
Even if you don't nominatesomebody, take a minute and

(35:13):
think, hey, who has reallyinspired me?
Who has really been generousthis year, right?
And then right say, hey, that'swhat I want to do.
And then follow through, right?
And just nominate somebody foran MVP, right?
It makes a difference to them,right?
And then it inspires all of us.

SPEAKER_00 (35:30):
Fantastic.
Thank you, Scott.
I love it.
I love it.
And I've also just pasted intothe LinkedIn chat here a link to
last week or two weeks ago, alink to our last episode.
You can find it at youtube.comforward slash at Josh Force.
One word.
Okay.
And if you're checking this outon live and you'd like some

(35:52):
additional information, we'renot wrapping the show up just
yet, guys.
So I know this sounds likeclosing credits.
Let's get out of here.
Be sure to check out thepodcast.
There's over a hundred hours ofcontent, some of it under the
moniker of the Salesforce CareerShow, some of it under the
hiring edge, some of it withScott, some of it with Vanessa
Grant, some of it with a lot ofdifferent friends and guests
that we've had over the, Ithink, four years now or
something like that, five years.

(36:13):
I don't even remember.
It's been a long time.
But do check out last week'sepisode.
It's on YouTube.
It's about 50 minutes long.
It is Salesforce Jobs in 2026,all about the market, and really
more about how to protectyourself from layoffs.
And that leads me to sort of atopical event.
Scott, you'd brought up a littlebit about noticing that, oh,

(36:34):
yeah, Salesforce just laid offapproximately a thousand more
people.
We're going to hear about that,I'm sure, right?
Like people love to talk aboutSalesforce layoffs, but they
don't always talk aboutSalesforce hiring.
So I did a little bit ofresearch, and I could be wrong,
but I do believe that Salesforcehas actually sort of netted

(36:56):
about 2,500 or so more employeesyear over year.
Right.
So we had 4,000 layoffs thissummer.
They're nearing about a thousandor so layoffs in this past uh
week, or at least announcing it,or as the article put it,
quietly, quietly announcingwhatever that means.
And I just want people to know,like, no, they're growing.

(37:17):
Okay, everyone calm down.
Right.
They're growing.
So, do you have any thoughts onthat?
Anything you want to share aboutthat, Scott?

SPEAKER_01 (37:24):
Yeah, I really like how you pointed out quietly,
right?
It's it's not quietly.
We all know what's going on,right?
Jobs are changing.
We know, right?
And some jobs are beingtransitioned out.
But as you you said, netpositive, right?
You've already gone over, right?
It's the AI wave, right?
You need to start using it.
You need to think about it fromboth perspectives, right?

(37:46):
And then get excited about itbecause some jobs will phase
out.
They're we're gonna have a lotof transition.
But overall, this is a reallyexciting time to be alive,
right?
Lots of opportunity out there.

SPEAKER_00 (37:57):
It's super dope.
It's super dope.
I was thinking about like beinga kid.
And back when I was a kid, youknow, milk cost five cents at
school, and you, you know, youhad uh uh, you know, you could
put a dime to make a phone callin a machine.
There's a phone on every singlecorner.
We did get 13 channels of shiton the TV to choose from.
Thanks, Pink Floyd, for bringingthat to our attention.
But yeah, we were very aware ofit back then.

(38:19):
And uh, you know, it's such adifferent, to different life.
I love being able to sort ofgrow up in kind of that tail end
of what I don't want to say anage of innocence, but partly,
you know, age of lowinformation, right?
And uh not to like highoverwhelm information, but it's
it's pretty dope.
I can't wait to get a robot.

SPEAKER_01 (38:39):
And now the the question I have for you is would
you ever get a robot for yourpuppy?
I just saw that.
You can now get robots, right,that are pet companions.

SPEAKER_00 (38:49):
Okay.
Yeah.
No, I'm not hard up like that,man.
Good luck with that.

SPEAKER_01 (38:53):
No thanks.
I'm actually with Gabby.
I'm really excited to see apicture of this uh new family
member.

SPEAKER_00 (38:59):
But yeah, okay.
Let me see if I can.
Why don't you talk about stuff?
Let me see if I can.
Can I just drop a photo in here?
Maybe I can.
Maybe I can.

SPEAKER_01 (39:07):
You definitely got to post one right on your um
LinkedIn page too, in case.

SPEAKER_00 (39:11):
Yeah, I could I could probably do that.
I'll do that right now.
Here we go.
Select more photos.

SPEAKER_01 (39:18):
I didn't mean to put you on the spot, Josh.

SPEAKER_00 (39:20):
I mean, no, it's okay.
Let's do it.
Let's check out this littlepuppy.
Let's check her out.
Okay, here we go.
Adding them.
Next.
Okay.
Okay.
All right.
Meet Zuka.
You know, I want to ask you.
Uh, it should just be on my mainon my main LinkedIn page.

SPEAKER_01 (39:41):
Oh, she wants them on the podcast.
I'm not sure the puppies.

SPEAKER_00 (39:44):
I don't even know how to do that.
Whatever.
I don't know how to do that.
Um, okay.
What's up, buddy?

SPEAKER_01 (39:49):
Yeah.
One question I would like topose is there's a lot of people
that are hearing that negativenews.
And do you have any tips, right,to help people to reframe
things?
You've gave us one reallyincredible tip is yeah, when
you're doing an interview,actually, you know, question
your own bias, right?
And then with that, right now,you'll think about our world.

(40:10):
You're hearing job layoffs, andeverybody was talking about it.
And then you quickly pointedout, hey, there's actually net
hiring.
Do you have any tips for forpeople out there that that are
listening to the negative,whatever you want to call it,
BS, right?
To actually reframe things.

SPEAKER_00 (40:26):
Yeah, guys, negative news sells.
I think I said this two weeksago.
Like, you're gonna get all up inarms about what some
billionaire, you know, chairmanof the board founder says, and
forget that they're beingconstantly followed and
scrutinized by news media allover the world all the time.

(40:49):
I mean, have someself-reflection.
I say stuff multiple times a daythat would probably get me
canceled.
Like that's the reality.
Like, I just I do.
It doesn't mean that I'm, youknow, there's any reason to
cancel me.
It's just me sort of ventingsteam or expressing an opinion
to a friend or the person I'mtalking to actually is
understanding the context thatI'm talking in, right?

(41:12):
Get over it.
Wake up.
Come on, get over it.
Let's uh let's remember howglass our houses are.
Do you know what I'm saying?
And be a little bit more gentlein understanding of people that
have to face uh fame and publicscrutiny.
Well, you should have thought ofthat about that before became a
billionaire.
It's like, you're an idiot.

(41:33):
Just you're an idiot.
So, one, I would let go of allof that stuff.
Two, as far as all of thenegative news, again, negative
news sells.
I just saw, I'm trying to findthis one post, this this uh poor
fella.
Oh, yeah, here we go.
So I saw this incredible postthe other day.

(41:53):
He's got 1,264 likes, 216comments, 378 reposts.
Daniel Corbin, accountexecutive, his his deep
frustration and frankly fearbecause he's he's not been able
to find a job.
Um that's Daniel Corbin, accountexecutive at your Y-E-R-H-R

(42:17):
solutions.
And he's been in the industryfor seven years, applying every
day, honestly feeling theanxiety like he never has
before, crying every day.
He's worried about his abilityto support his family.
I love his vulnerability.
I love that he put it out there.
And boy, did did people respond.
I responded.
I don't know if people like whatI said, but um, people respond

(42:38):
like crazy.
You're open to my network.
Hey, apply here, check this out,we're hiring.
And, you know, I don't know,man.
I feel really conflicted aboutthis because I saw this and I
thought, how brave for Daniel toget out there and just put it
out there.
And my guess is he's gonna get ajob because of this post.
Like I really do think that hethat he's going to get a job.

(42:59):
But if anyone approached me toget hired for my team, they
approached me in the way thatDaniel did.
I wouldn't hire him.
There's no way I would hirethem.
Right?
Because it's more of like hiringbecause of someone's having a
hard time.
It's appealing to theiremotional desire of a young man
looking out for his family andfeeling frustration.
That's not a reason to hiresomeone, I don't think, because

(43:21):
that's that's goodwill, that'scharity.
Um, I'm sure he works hard andI'm sure he's very good at what
he does, but I felt reallyconflicted reading that post
because it is absolutely theopposite of what we talked about
on our last show, which was tolike not get negative about your
job search online.

(43:41):
Now, apparently it works.
So I'm proven wrong.
Apparently it works.
Even people I know, good peopleI know, like Jeff Walinsky, were
like, hey man, I saw this onJosh's post.
Like, check out my network,happy to help.
But from where I stand, I think,okay, you're in sales and you're
in recruiting.
And you're appealing to themasses that you can't find a

(44:02):
job.
I just think, how good are youat accounting or excuse me, at
sales and at recruiting?
If that's your strategy to get anew job.
Now, I'm not trying to bag onDaniel because I think that what
he did came from a real place ofheart and desperation.
I've been there, I know whatthat's like.
It's so horrible.
It's really difficult forrecruiters right now.

(44:22):
If you are not in the top 10,20, 30, 40, 50 percent of
recruiters, you're probably, youknow, not gonna find it easy to
get employed.
AI is coming for our jobsprobably more than the typical
entry-level, entry to mid-levelSalesforce administrator.
I mean, trust me, we feel it.

(44:43):
You know, that's why I'mscrambling.
Like I'm a recruitingorchestrator.
Yeah, I have to be.
I'm adapting and rolling withthe punches, just like everybody
else in the Salesforce ecosystemthat wants to survive.
Now, I love, again, I love hisbravery.
I hope I'm not coming across ascold.
It's not cold.
I think it's a reality, which isyou want to, you know, if you

(45:04):
were gonna go buy um a car, yougo to a car lot, go to two car
lots, and one person sells youthe car that you want, and
another person wants you, youbuy a car from someone because
he really needs to pay hisbills.
Well, we're just talking about acar.
We're not talking about a$70,$80,000,$100,000 a year based
salary job that's gonna go fortwo or three or four or five or

(45:24):
10 years.
Right?
Like put it into perspective.
When you're making a decision onwho to hire, it better be for
all the right reasons and notbecause of your emotional
response.
Again, we're humans.
We're wired to feel this.
We're wired to go ooh and ahwhen we see a puppy, cry at some
heartbreaking story, right?

(45:46):
Have our heart be overwhelmedwhen we see someone overcome
great adversity and achieveincredible success, which we see
a lot of during the WinterOlympics and all of the Olympics
and lots of different sportscompetitions and in personal,
personal stories that we see onLinkedIn.
So, like we're wired for it.
But let's just calm the you knowwhat down and ask ourselves, is

(46:09):
this who I want on my team?
Like you'll notice through thethreads, I don't think anyone
was like, you're hired.
It's like, you're welcome to mynet network or you're welcome to
apply.
You know, he's already applied2,400 times, 2,400 times.
And I just basically said, look,you're applying to jobs like an
uncontrolled machine gun, be asniper, right?
Become a pro at prompting,exercise, move your body,

(46:32):
that'll help with the emotions,right?
Listen to my show with Scott,you know.
There's other things that we cando.
I just don't want anybody caughtup in this because people, it's
coming, and I think it stands torepeat.
But one of the things that wetalked about last week is to not
be shocked when there arelayoffs going on.
It's rarely, and you know, whatyou'll see is like, oh, they're

(46:54):
hiring 2,000 new workers at thisnew Tesla plant.
It's like, okay, no one cares.
But when you hear, oh, Tesla'sfiring 2,000 people, everyone's
like, can you believe it?

SPEAKER_01 (47:06):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (47:07):
Because it doesn't make your feed, man, because you
don't want to see all thatstuff.
You want the sad stuff, you wantthe bad news.
You you do.
You do, you know?
I mean, once in a while you wanta great story.
Think about this poornewscaster's mother who's
disappeared.
I mean, this is a horriblefascinating the news.

(47:27):
They interrupt the Olympics forupdates on this.
The Olympics, the WorldOlympics, it's updated for the
search for one little lady.
It's a horrible story.
It's emotional, it sells, itkeeps people glued to their TV
feeds, it keeps people glued tothe news.
Is it going to change your life?
I promise you it will not.
It will not change your life atall.
It will not affect you.
It doesn't affect you.
You're interested in the story.

(47:48):
The same way we all followed OJback in the day and every other
story like that.
You know, so just I just wantpeople to be aware that they
are, they have a sympatheticnervous system that is
wonderful.
That's what brings peopletogether, but it can F you up
when it comes to your career.
Do you understand?
If you don't understand whyyou're responding in certain

(48:09):
ways to people, why you're notresponding in certain ways to
people who are interviewing you,why you're responding in certain
ways to people that you'reinterviewing, if you don't
understand what's happeninginside your body, right?
You've got a problem.
And I said, I said this to myfriend just, I think it was
yesterday we were talking, theone who's got this great boss
and a great job, you know.

(48:31):
And I said, You have a feelingin your body, don't you?
It's an uncomfortable feelingwhen you think about what it
might mean to stay here.
And he said, Yes.
Like that's just a feeling.
It's not truth.
It's literally a cocktail ofchemicals that your brain is
sending out because it'sunfamiliar.

(48:51):
It's not the way forward.
You'll just get more of the sameif you follow those turn left,
turn right guidelines that yourbody is sending out.
This feels good.
I turn right, this feels bad, Iturn left.
Right.
Good feeling, bad feeling, goodfeeling, bad feeling.
Oh, look where I am.
Same freaking place I was lastyear.
What happened?
It's like I know.

(49:12):
Because you kept making a rightand a left and a right and a
left, or you just kept making amillion rights and you wound up
exactly where you were.
If you want to get better.
And guys, I want to just makesure everybody understands this.
We hire the top 10% of people inthe ecosystem.
We don't hire the bottom 90%.
So when I talk about this stuff,I'm talking about it like that.
This isn't a show about how toget a job.

(49:33):
This is a show, isn't a showabout how to hire a person.
This is a show about how to hirethe best people.
This is a show about high how toget the best job.
This is a high performance,high, it's not even high stakes,
just high performance, high umhigh standards for employment,
for your career, for your life,for the kind of life that you

(49:54):
want to have, the kind of teamthat you want to have, the
career that you want to have.
Look, this isn't like youraverage, yeah, this is how you
get a job, put this on yourresume.
That's all good.
Other people can tell you how todo that.
So when I tell you that youremotions are messing you up and
keeping you stuck, I promise youthey are.
You can Google it, you can chatGPT it, have a conversation,

(50:15):
learn about yourself.
Get really deep, deep, deep.
Because if you don't solve thechallenges that are preventing
you from being in that top 10%or from having the career of
your dreams, or what this youngman is struggling with, Daniel
Corbin, if you can't reallyunderstand what is driving these
decisions, then you're you're ata loss.
You're not going to be in thetop 10%.

(50:37):
And I'll tell you somethingelse.
Can you tell you how coffee,Scott?
I'll tell you something else.
The reality is, is like if wekeep looking at the market, and
I said this two weeks ago, if wekeep looking at the market and
we think it's the market'sfault, we've missed the whole
damn point.
The market affects us, but howhave we adapted?

(50:57):
What in the last five monthshave you done to make sure that
you've learned a skill, adapteda skill, improved an ability to
interview a improve, like howabout look at yourself?
Like, you know what?
I looked and I realized thatI've had X number of jobs in X
number of years.
And I used to think that it wasalways their fault.
And now I realize it's actuallya lot of it had to do, uh, a lot

(51:20):
of it had to do with me.
Yeah, I'm looking at, yeah, I'mlooking at some people here
online, and it's like, yeah, ayear here, 10 months there, five
months there.
It's like, that is not themarket, guys.
That is the you people.
That's you.
And maybe it's just you don'tknow how to make a good decision

(51:41):
on who to apply to or who to sayyes to for a job.
That's a possibility.
Clearly, you can tell I'm allabout personal responsibility,
and I know half the worlddoesn't feel that way.
So if this but this reallyresonates feels funny, that's
fine.

SPEAKER_01 (51:56):
Yeah, I mean, because you're all about your
locus of control.
I mean, when you were evensaying that, I was thinking, is
it even right for you people tojust go out when they have a
negative experience, right?
And then shed it out to theworld.
You're affecting other people,right?
Deal with it yourself, right?
You know, and then make a changein yourself.
Even if the hiring is was reallybad at one time, somebody's

(52:18):
gonna get a job, right?
There's opportunity always inthe world when you take
ownership, right, of your owndecisions, your own actions.
And then also just the own theonly way you approach life,
right?
Approach life, right, with witha positive mindset, right?
And then be honest withyourself.
You know, I think that oneperson that you said he's

(52:39):
probably gonna get a job.
Yeah, he probably will get ajob, but I'm not sure that he
trained himself the right wayfor life.
He's probably gonna get a joband probably lose it, right?
Because he has a negativeoutlook on life.

SPEAKER_00 (52:50):
Look, I I looked, he's he's had a successful
career.
He's spent four and a half yearsat a single company during a
time when hiring was difficult.
So I don't believe that at all.
I think he's gonna have a verysuccessful career.
And I don't, I the last thing Iwant to do is ever put kind of
some expectation that someone'snot gonna do well because they
can hear this program or theycan connect with all of these
hundreds of people that havereached out to him and grow from

(53:12):
that.
So I have every belief that thisyoung man is gonna do an amazing
job.
I think he's gonna get a job, Ithink he's gonna have a
wonderful career, wonderfulfamily, and find stability.
But you are right that the hopeis that he or anyone else like
him, I mean, he's a reallystandout case.
You've got to have some cojonesto put that out there.
I mean, if I put out on LinkedInthat I was crying every day

(53:33):
because of my stress aroundthis, like, I don't know.
Like, I don't think I would dothat.
And I I'm fine being vulnerable.
And guess what?
I've had times in my life whereI did cry every day.
I, of course, have, right?
Like I got through some shit,man.
You know that.
Like, of course, you know, so Ilike I want to applaud him for
his bravery to do this.
And I think it will actuallyhave solved his problem.

(53:55):
I don't want that to be abenchmark for everyone else
listening to this program,though.
I want them to approach thiswhere it's like, you never want
to get hired because of yourhard story, your hard done by
story.
You want to get hired becauseyou kick ass and bring value,
period.
That's it.
That's really powerful too, toactually think about it, right?

SPEAKER_01 (54:13):
What is from your own perspective, right?
Like, what do you want to behired for?
Right.
And I think I can reallyresonate.
We've all had cry cry time,right?
I was actually, believe it ornot, talking to Vanessa Grant
last night.
And she's like, Yeah, I've hadsome hard times.
I'm like, I think all humans,right?
The older you get, you go, yeah,you live through some good times
and you live through some hardtimes, right?

(54:35):
But it's how do you actuallyapproach those times that makes
the difference?

SPEAKER_00 (54:40):
Yeah.
You know, look, everyone shouldknow already that you learn from
the hard stuff.
You learn from the hard stuff.
All right, guys.
Thank you so much, everybody,for listening to this program.
I know I can talk a little bitfast sometimes.
Sometimes I can rant for alittle bit, and sometimes you
can take a quote of mine, andI'll sound like a real jerk on
the outside.
Uh, that's okay.
Don't worry about it.
Hopefully you got some goodnugget out of this program.

(55:02):
I can't thank Scott Staffordenough for being so committed.
I think he got up at 5 a.m.
to make sure that he could skipthe snow and get to a place
where the internet was good andwasn't gonna get blown out by
the snowstorm.
That was kind of you, Scott, todo that and to be ever present,
ever ready with our listeningaudience.
We'll be back in two weeks.
I don't even know what we'regonna talk about, but I'm sure

(55:23):
I'll let you know on LinkedIn.
If you're not following me nowor Scott, please do so.

SPEAKER_01 (55:30):
Thanks, everybody, right?
Being able to have this live andsee some questions and react
really is incredible.
So make sure that everybodykeeps asking those questions.
And then also, right, thank you,Josh.
I'm sure your your knowledgethat you're sharing with
everybody, right, is making adifference, right?
So thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 (55:47):
Thanks, man.
Yeah, and hi to all our friends.
It's so good to see Anarog andGabby and uh see Kay and Ashley
and uh Bunting.
Uh, I know that you wanted tomake it.
I'm glad that you did.
That's fantastic, and so manyothers.
So thanks everybody for showingup for this live program.
Okay, bye for now.
Have a good have a great week.
All right, thanks again, Scott.
Bye for now.