November 29, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode, I’m joined by Jem from Australia, a homeschooling mom of four navigating autism, ADHD, sensory needs, school refusal, and neurodivergent learning—and doing it all with honesty, humor, and so much heart.
Jem shares why her family left the traditional school system, how her kids went from daily meltdowns and sensory overwhelm to peaceful mornings and learning at their own pace, and why unschooling naturally became the approach that finally worked.
We talk about:
• What homeschooling looks like for autistic and ADHD learners
• Why school refusal isn’t “defiance”—it’s dysregulation
• The surprising benefits of late-morning starts, slow mornings, and interest-led learning
• How volunteering at an animal rescue farm completely changed her daughter’s confidence
• Creating sensory-friendly learning spaces at home
• Using fidgets, wobble seats, chewing tools, trampolines, and pets for regulation
• Transitioning out of curriculum and into a more intuitive, child-led rhythm
• How homeschooling reconnects families and helps kids thrive emotionally
• The differences between public school vs. homeschool in Australia
• What new homeschool parents REALLY need to hear before they begin
If you’re parenting a neurodivergent child, exploring unschooling, or wondering whether homeschooling can truly support special needs, this episode will give you encouragement, perspective, and a whole lot of validation.
✨ Connect with Jem:
Jem's Facebook
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Learn more about Green Ember: Helmer in the Dragon Tomb—the new prequel book from S. D. Smith—and explore the companion video game now available on Steam: sdsmith.com/helmer
Perfect for parents seeking meaningful, courage-building stories for kids ages 8–12.
*** A Connected Christmas Unit Study! Start making Christmas memories today!!
📘 The Homeschool How To Complete Starter Guide
Thinking about homeschooling but don’t know where to start? Cheryl created this comprehensive guide, compiling insights from interviews with over 120 homeschooling families across the country. From navigating state laws to balancing work and home life — this eBook covers it all. Stop feeling overwhelmed and start feeling confident on your homeschooling journey.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome.
And with us today, I have Jenfrom Australia.
Welcome, Jen.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker (00:05):
Thank you.
It's a delight.
I'm really privileged to besitting here with you and having
a chat.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Now, one of my guests from Australia told me before,
and I'll have to see if this istrue.
Australia was a place they usedto send criminals.
It's like an island that theyjust sent them to.
So everybody that's there nowis like uh some sort of relative
to a criminal that was just aconvict that used to call them.
Speaker (00:27):
Yeah.
Yes, that is very true.
Yeah, Botany Bay.
Do you how long ago do youknow?
Well, we did a a little bit ofa study at the beginning of the
year with the kids.
And I'd please don't quote mebecause I don't retain a lot of
information.
Um 1860, I think, was that whenit was.
(00:48):
But don't quote me on thatbecause I don't retain
information.
But yeah, just that journey.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Not that long ago when you think of the community
scheme of things.
So it's like a grandparent ortwo ago.
A couple of things.
I mean, I could be wrong.
Speaker (01:02):
It might be um more than that, but the just that
story of them coming over andwhy, you know, why convicts came
over?
You could have just beensomeone just providing for their
family and just, you know,taking an apple and then they're
on the ship over like and thenthey were basically slaves.
They were brought over and theybuilt the camp.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Okay, so how many kids do you have and what are
their ages?
Speaker (01:28):
Yeah, so I actually have four kids, um, all
different ages.
My oldest is 19 at the end ofthe year, so December, his
December baby.
Um, he is now working and he'sdoing a trade cabinetry and
joinery, um, and he's reallyenjoying that.
He's into his second year.
So we're not homeschooling him.
He's made his own way now andhis own journey, which is
(01:48):
fantastic.
Um, my next one is uh turning16 in a couple of weeks, um, and
he's in U10.
Well, what you call U10, and Ihave two girls, 13 and 10 as
well.
Oh awesome.
So when did you starthomeschooling?
So we started at the beginningof this year for many different
reasons, I guess.
(02:08):
The school system just wasn'tworking for the challenges that
they were facing with a nearlydiagnosis of.
So I've got two on thespectrum, plus possibly a third,
so the 10, the 13, and thenearly 16-year-old.
And the sis the school systemjust wasn't working for them,
even though we had lots ofsupport at school and we had
everything set up for them, itjust still wasn't working for
(02:30):
them.
So we just had to make thatchange for them.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I hear that very often.
Like I I can homeschool becausemy kids have special needs and
they moms especially feel likethey're not adequate enough.
Like they it's intimidating tothem to saying, I can do better
than all of these services thatthe state or government are
providing.
But obviously, you're seeingthe opposite that you are more
(02:58):
than capable, even than all ofthe different resources that
they're providing you,everything that was set up.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe benefits to homeschooling
when you do have a child withspecial needs?
Speaker (03:09):
Yeah, so obviously we were faced with um school cart
or school refusal.
I'm not sure if you know thoseterms.
It's basically where they justcan't get to school.
They want to be at school, butthey just can't get to school.
It was, you know, the kids werefacing difficulties with their
processing skills and that rushto get out the door, and then
(03:30):
that would lead to them to ameltdown because they didn't
have that time to get themselvesready and be at school by 9
a.m.
Um and now they just get tohave their flow morning, they
get up on their own, and they'reable to get look, we don't
start homeschooling probablytill about 11, but that that's
what's working for them, andthat's okay, and it could
(03:50):
change.
And I just want people to knowthat that's okay.
School does not have to bebetween nine and three.
You're right.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah.
What are some of the otherbenefits, like the one-on-one,
or have you changed curriculumseven?
Like to hey, this actuallyworks better for you than what
they were doing at school.
Speaker (04:08):
It's funny, you know.
I listened to a lot of yourinterviews and I was a bit in
the same mindset that, you know,do I have to follow a
curriculum?
Like, no, I don't.
And I did sort of at thebeginning say, okay, we went and
spent a bit of money on somebooks to work through, and very
quickly we found that that doesnot work in any way, shape, or
form.
Sitting down at a desk workingfrom a book or a computer
(04:30):
screen, however you want to dothat.
So we are sort of on the pathto unschooling, and that
happened very, very quickly andvery, very naturally.
And I think that one of thebenefits is that with that you
can cater to their interests andtheir needs and what their
goals are.
Um, I think this year for us itwas more about that that
decompression from school andlearning what their interests
(04:53):
are.
So my 13-year-old daughter,she's level two ASD and ADHD,
and she has this passion foranimals.
Like you could talk, she couldjust sit there all day and just
talk about animals and all thedifferent things about animals,
doesn't matter what it is.
It's just up there.
And she's quite obviously goingto go into that field when
she's older.
And so once a week we go outand volunteer out at a animal
(05:17):
rescue farm for her, and that'spart of her homeschooling, and
she can get hands-on with theseanimals.
And there was a sick cow outthere the other day, and I've
got a photo of her juststraddled over the back of this
cow holding its mouth and itshead so the people could
administer the medication.
And you know, they just don'tget that in in a school, that
hands-on experience, and that issuch an amazing learning
(05:38):
opportunity for her, instead ofsitting there and just reading
about it, and some like we don'tget me wrong, we still do that,
but this this is where she'slearning the most.
This is what she's gonna dolater on in her life, and that's
gonna just set her up forsuccess when she's older.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So I think you know, yeah, she's seeing like what
other jobs there are firsthand.
She's not like hearing about itas she's scrolling through what
college degree should I get,and you know, okay, that one
sounds good.
It's like, no, here she canview what that the veterinarian
or whatever it is, homesteaderdoes on a daily basis and say,
(06:18):
Oh, I think I would like to dothat, or a variation of that.
They're actually seeing it as ajob.
Speaker (06:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, like you know, I I don'tput any restrictions on what she
can and she can't achieve orany of the children, but you
know, she might not be able tomanage going and doing a further
education anyway.
So being connected to thepeople out there that don't have
have any of those skills, theyhaven't been to school, they
haven't done any furthereducation either.
So, you know, if she picks upall of that experience, those
(06:45):
hands-on experience and thoseskills and learn that way, she
won't need to go.
She won't need to go go do thathigher education because she'll
already have that those softskills and those hands-on
experiences and learn frompeople that are already she's
already connecting with.
So that's one of the benefits.
The other benefit is, you know,being having sensory overload
(07:06):
all of the time.
The kids can just learn attheir own pace.
They can go jump on my bed andtuck themselves in and read, and
they can well, this morning mydaughter was sitting here next
to me while I was setting uphere and just doing maths and
English and phonics and stuffthat we do do a little bit of
and we haven't had done forquite some time.
(07:27):
So I said today we're justgonna sit down, 20 minutes, just
read read your book and fillout your questions.
Nothing too difficult.
So they can find a space wherethey're comfortable, where they
feel at peace, and they can andthey can just be themselves and
learn.
And I think that if if theirwell-being is being met that
way, they're gonna learn,they're gonna thrive.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
How are the schools in Australia?
Like, what has been yourexperience with them?
Speaker (07:51):
So we have moved schools all around a little bit,
like we went to a public schoolkinda, which is um age five,
four to five.
I did that in a privateschooling, which was lovely, and
we just couldn't afford at thetime to send them all the way
through pu private schooling.
Um, that was amazing.
That was really hands-on.
(08:12):
They love that, but then I hadto send them to public school,
and I think that was just theworst decision ever, ever,
because um I saw that, you know,my son at the time wasn't
allowed to hold things in hishand.
The teacher said to me that,you know, it's distracting other
children from learning whocan't hold things in his hands,
who can't scribble on a notepad,eyes have to be up at the
(08:34):
board, and but he takes thingsin by sitting there and fiddling
with things and drawingscribbles, whatever.
But he'll he'll be listening,but the teacher doesn't think
he's listening.
So, you know, that was a bit ofan eye-opener, and all these
things sort of just startedshowing up in the in the public
school system.
Even when I address the issueof, you know, what have you
(08:58):
noticed about the kids atschool?
Like I'm beginning to see somebehaviors that aren't normal.
This is way before theirdiagnosis.
And they said, no, they'refine, they're they're fitting in
well, they're doing their work,you know.
Um, they're not behind, they'rejust there, they're just
plugging along, which to mewasn't true because I was seeing
(09:18):
a whole other picture when theycame home from school.
So that was my concern that,you know, they're just ticking
boxes, they're not really intune with the what is really
going on with the kids.
Look, you know, I give teachersso much credit because, you
know, they're looking after awhole class, you know, 33
children with one teacher.
So, you know, they're notalways going to be able to have
(09:40):
that relationship with each andevery child.
But when you when you go andask questions and they can't
give you the answers, it reallymakes you think about what are
they actually learning?
What are they actuallyachieving if the teachers don't
really know what what theirinterests are and how they're
actually functioning in theclassroom as a as a student?
(10:03):
But yeah, there's so many eyeopeners in the public school
system.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, and when you think of it about like, oh,
they're just chugging along andoh, they're just they're getting
by, it's like what kind ofchildhood is that?
I mean, they're just setting usup for that in adulthood,
right?
Like, oh, I I've got in acubicle for 16 years just
chugging along and just gettingby.
And now that I'm outside ofthat system, I'm like, oh my
(10:27):
gosh, there's so much to learnoutside of the walls.
I mean, the just going outsideand paying attention to, you
know, insect that you've neverseen before and looking it up,
and what is that?
And you know, watching birdsbuild a nest, Miriam, and you
know, other parts of that.
Or driving by a building, Isaid to my son today, I go this
(10:51):
building that we've been byhundreds of times.
I'm like, wow, that's a reallyold building.
Is it abandoned?
Is it not?
When was it built?
What was it here for?
And um, you know, I was like,we need to look that up.
And it's just back when I waslike rushing to school, rushing
to daycare, rushing to work, Inever would have stopped to
think rushing home to makedinner, you never would have
(11:13):
stopped to think about that.
And even if you did take aweekend car ride, like it's just
your mindset is not let's lookat the world around us.
It's just, you know, whatwhat's the next thing so that
you can get to the next thingand the next thing.
So it's like all of that startsfrom the school system and they
just make us think it's okay tojust get by.
Speaker (11:32):
The system is set up that we are busy all of the
time.
We don't have the opportunitiesto really explore and take
notice of things because we'rebusy running here and busy
running there, and get home, youknow, from school, homework,
dinner, bed, and you just repeatthat every single day.
And you know, the the benefitof homeschooling is that, you
(11:56):
know, you can just get in thecar like on Monday just gone.
We just I picked up the kidsfrom their dads and we just
said, Hey, we're gonna go to theMelbourne Aquarium and you
know, we stopped to havepancakes and have that family
connection time, which wewouldn't get anyway if we were
still in that school system andwe sat and the kids ordered like
(12:18):
their breakfast and well it wasbrunch really, but you know, I
said you know, part of learningtoday is that you guys are gonna
tell the waitress what it isthat you wanna eat and drink and
you know, because they're all abit um socially challenged with
their autism spectrum.
So they need those practiceskills.
They weren't comfortable doingit, but hey, they did it and I
(12:38):
was so proud of them.
You know, and we drove intoMelbourne and you know, the kids
were just, you know, goingthrough the tunnel.
We we got underground tunnels.
I don't know if you have thosein America, but underground
tunnels and you know, they'retrying to count we've got this
green light that goes along thewall of the tunnel, and um that
means you're going at the rightspeed as long as you don't pass
this green, green line that'sdriving in front of you.
(13:00):
And you know, they're countinghow many seconds we're away from
the green line and the car infront of us and all of that.
And then we like you said aboutan old building, Melbourne has
some really beautiful oldbuildings, and I said, Wow,
isn't that a beautiful building?
And they're just looking at melike it's not new and shiny and
tall, it's like made the thebricks are made by hand and
(13:23):
they're put together by peoplethat put brick on top of brick
and just the shape of thewindows are like curved and
round, and I'm like, Do you notsee how beautiful that is?
And then they stopped and theyhad a look, and I'm like, Yeah,
that's pretty.
How did they do that?
Like, you know, and then youknow, we spent a good 10 minutes
just looking at the corner ofthis building, just talking
about it, because we had thetime to do it.
(13:44):
We went in a hurry, and yeah,yeah, you know, because we we
weren't going to Melbourne tolook at buildings, we were going
to the clearing, and but hey,look at that, we just learned
something, we saw something inthe beauty that goes into hard
work.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You're so right.
And I remember last year we hadread a book around Christmas
time about like a woodworker,and it was a children's book, it
was a really a beautiful story.
And we were driving later thatday to a play date with friends,
and we passed somebody on theroad that was making like
figurines out of wood with hishands off just on the side of
(14:19):
the road.
And I was like, that's weird.
So I was like, let's stop andask him about you know what what
he's doing because that's justwhat homeschoolers do now,
right?
Fold over and he's like, No,I've been here for years.
And I'm like, well, there'sanother thing I must have passed
a million times and neverstopped to pay attention to a
man literally in the cold with afire flooding stuff.
(14:41):
He's making bears making eaglesand owls and all that stuff.
And so he's telling me like howthey wouldn't let him put a
building up because of codes andwhere we live and stuff.
And so he's like, well, yeah,I'm just gonna do it without the
building.
And how people on the way toVermont like stop on the
weekends and he sells out everyweekend.
So then on the way home, my sonand I are talking about like,
(15:03):
okay, well, if that was your joband you sold 300, and say it
takes you a week to make 40 ofthem, and you can sell them for
$300.
What's 300 times 40?
And we're figuring that out.
And okay, well, what does hemake a year?
And okay, well, that's a jobyou could do someday.
You know, so like you're soright.
Homeschooling gives you theopportunity to like really pay
(15:25):
attention to life around you andbe part of it.
Speaker (15:27):
Yeah.
And even I'm learning on the goas well.
I'm learning so much more thanI did when I was in school.
Obviously, I went to pub umpublic schooling and and you
know, school is hard for me.
I don't don't call myself avery educated person by any
means.
But yeah, so I'm learning alongwith the kids and you know,
education has changed.
(15:48):
If the kids came home fromschool with homework, there's
just no way I could help thembecause what we learnt is no
longer uh what's the right word?
Uh it's different.
It's relevant.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's no revel relevantand um the way they do things.
So, you know, my grade sixer isdoing work that I probably
would have done in year ninebecause it keeps evolving and I
(16:10):
I just couldn't help them withit.
Um and I said, Look, we'regonna have to connect with the
teachers to help you, whichmeant they they weren't handing
their working time working ontime and that was stressful for
them.
So yeah, I just very open awakenow in the way the school
system is.
My nearly 16-year-old, I guessthis is one of his strengths,
but it's also one of hisweaknesses as well.
(16:30):
He is the most awake 15, 16year old I've ever known.
And school, he would part ofhis resistance to go to school
was because he's learning thesame thing he's learning when he
was in grade three.
It's just a little bit of extratacked on the end.
And he goes, Mum, I know allthis, and his brain, because
he's um hype functioning, hisbrain already automatically does
(16:53):
it, and he he can work it outso quickly.
That add-ons of every year.
So he's already done it in hishead twelve months ago.
So and then the teachers wantit delivered a certain way, but
that's not how he worked it out.
But it's the same answer, butthey need it answered in a
certain way.
And he goes, Why?
Why do I have to do it thatway?
(17:13):
I already know the answer, I'vealready done it, like and so we
we really struggled with thatwith him towards the end.
And I think actually he was theone that made me more awake.
Like, you know, I was alreadyon that journey anyway, but that
really just pinpointed, Well,this just is not working, is it?
Just not working.
So this year we I actually forhim made my own curriculum with
(17:35):
the help of Chat GPT.
Um nice, yeah.
So that was a reallyresourceful tool to have,
especially because he's intogaming and learning about
YouTube channels and contentcreation and things like that.
Um I have no no knowledge inthat field at all.
(17:56):
So we were able to do a basicintroduction to content creation
and gaming for him for all ofthe first semester of this year,
basically half the year.
And he loved it.
And we were able to do justchunk sizes at a time because
getting him to sit down and doeven though he's in year ten,
like you know, that year tenlevel, he can't sit there for
(18:16):
six hours with small, you know,even small breaks.
So and he also struggles withdepression as well.
So just doing little chunksevery day and letting him
connect with his friends havebeen the most beneficial, most
beneficial things for him thisyear.
So that's another benefit ifthey're struggling, struggling
mentally as well.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Are there other like tips andtricks that you would have for
parents who do have childrenwith special needs that like you
mentioned before, havingsomething in his hands?
Are there certain things thatyou buy for them to be able to
fiddle with or other tricks thatyou have found?
Speaker (18:51):
Yeah, so so over here in Australia we have something
called the NDIS, which is um uhdon't ask me to figure out what
that actually means, butbasically you get their
diagnosis and the governmentfunds everybody with a
disability um for money to buythese things that would be
normally be out of our pocketthat we couldn't afford.
We we have lots of fidgets inour house, you know, and each
(19:14):
one of them are very different.
My oldest boy that's um 16, helikes to chew on things, and
obviously he was chewing onthings like tin cans and sticks
and things that are actuallyvery dangerous that could harm
him.
So we're able to purchase safechewing sticks and um heavy he
(19:35):
likes weight in his hands, sothings that are heavy in his
hands to hold.
We have a wobble seat on hisdesk chair, and he likes to move
around as well.
So a lot of the time you'llI'll just find him pacing back
and forth in his room, but he'llhave his headphones on and he
can do that and he'll belistening to a documentary while
he does that, pacing back andforth.
We have like an exercise ballthat they all use.
(19:59):
We use um desk chairs at thekitchen table so that they can
swivel on um to learn.
They go out on the trampolineand they sit on the trampoline
because one of my girls likesthat that deep therapy pressure
of bouncing.
So, you know, they were able tosupply a trampoline for us,
believe it or not, so to helpwith those needs.
(20:20):
So nothing is out of thequestion really when it comes to
being able to support your kidsat home because you have
everything here that they need.
The school, such as like whenwe were in private school when I
pulled them out, they werereally good on the welfare,
their welfare was amazing, theylooked after them so well, but
even with the IEPs and thestudent support plans they had
(20:41):
in place, it wasn't enough.
And the kids didn't want totake their own personal um
sensory items with them becauseyou know, the fear of being
judged basically.
So, yeah, they couldn't takethose supports with them to be
able to help them in theclassroom.
And my daughter obviouslyreally needed a support pet, a
support animal to go with her toschool, and we had the
(21:01):
opportunity to do that and takeher rabbit to school while she
was still in grade in middleschool, so grade five and six,
where they weren't going acrossfrom classroom, different
classroom to differentclassroom, and it could easily
just stay on her desk.
The rabbit just sat there forher and she could pat it
whenever she wanted to.
None of the other kids wereallowed to touch her, that was
the rule, it was just for heruse.
Um and she that year that shehad her rabbit there, she
(21:24):
thrived.
She absolutely thrived, even inher relationships with other
students and her work.
Um, but obviously she got toyear seven, and that's when
they're going to differentclassrooms and carrying all
their books and she couldn't shecouldn't process that movement
with having the rabbit with herand safely doing that, carry all
(21:45):
of her books and her laptops.
So once she couldn't do that,we saw a dramatic, a dramatic
drop in her attendance at schooland her work, she just couldn't
cope at school in the classroomenvironment at all.
I had days where yeah, I haddays where I just couldn't get
to work because I'd drive herbecause we live country, rule,
and so it was a 30-minute driveto school.
(22:07):
So it was like pulling teacherMahin to get her out of bed and
get her going and deal withthose meltdowns in the morning,
get to school and she justwouldn't get out of the car
because she just couldn't.
She couldn't like she was sooverstimulated and dregulated
that I would have to then say,ring up work and say, Hey, I'd
(22:27):
better take my daughter backhome and look after her now
because now she I'm going toneed to spend all day helping
her re-regulate.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You wonder how many parents would be like, Well,
let's get rid of that rabbit,because she's she's just missing
school because she wants to behome with that rabbit.
But yeah, it really issomething helping.
Speaker (22:43):
And and I am really sure some people thought that as
well.
Um but yeah, she took thatrabbit everywhere.
She she was taking it to OT.
She would take it to some.
We managed to get her to cutget it to get into Kmart
sometimes, which is a bit likeWalmart in America, but
depending who was depending whowas.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I grew up with a Kmart here, yeah.
We don't have them anymore.
Speaker (23:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So we just there's no, yeah, wedon't have a food section in
our Kmart anymore.
It used to be, it's justclothes and homewares.
But um yeah, I think theycottoned on that there was quite
a few people bringing theirpets in that unless it's a
service animal and has it ontheir little jacket, you can't
bring it in now.
So yeah, that was that and nowshe can just sit here at her
desk or on the floor, on thetrampoline with she's got three
(23:28):
dogs, you know, the dog next toher and putting his head on her
lap to keep her regulatedbecause of that deep pressure,
and she gets her work done.
And all the rabbits sitting onher desk with her on her bed,
you know, and she'll she'll beout of focus then and gets more
done.
But she's more of a hands-on, amore hands-on girl.
(23:48):
So, you know, I find that ifwe're outside in the veggie
garden or we're out at the farm,or we're down at the beach
looking in rock pools, or wherewe've got five minutes up the
road a little place calledCaldermead farm, and they have
animal nurseries and goats andlambs, and we're going out
there, and you can also view awhole milking a whole milking
(24:10):
what do you call it?
A milking farm.
It's uh open to everyone tocome and view.
So we go down there and wewatch the cows get milked and
all of that.
So just absolutely loves thatand she just learned so much.
So you've been having raw milkin Australia.
It's actually illegal inAustralia.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's illegal in my state too, isn't it?
So crazy.
Speaker (24:30):
Yeah, we can um the closest I can find is um
unhomogenized.
I don't even know if that'ssafe for you.
I haven't really done thatresearch, but how close that is
to raw milk, I guess is what I'mtrying to say.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Unreal.
Speaker (24:44):
We do yeah, and I really like I remember my mum
and dad, they had friends thatwere farmers, and every now and
then they just get like thesebig buckets of milk, and I was
pretty sure that was straightfrom the cow.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (24:59):
Yeah, still I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Everybody was probably healthier.
Speaker (25:02):
I was gonna say that was 42 years ago, so you know,
yes, I'm 42, so yeah, can't dothat now.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Now have you personally I know you haven't
been homeschooling too long, buthave you found even over the
years with the kids in school,are there certain curriculums or
styles of learning from thebook that are better for special
needs than that?
I know now you're kind ofleaning towards the unschooling,
so you're following theirinterests and learning through
(25:28):
that.
But is there for parents thatdo want to do a curriculum, or
is there anything that's betterthan something else?
Speaker (25:34):
I haven't really ventured into that.
Something I'm actually going tolook at for next year now that
we've had this whole year todecompress and find what their
interests are.
So I've actually just beenfollowing what your other guests
on here are doing.
So some of those things I'll belooking into, like maybe the
Waldorf, is it how I see that?
Wald off, walldoff education.
So uh yeah, something I want tolook more at.
(25:56):
I'd really like them to justreally explore more or give them
that confidence that they canlearn more than what they're
just learning now.
Because I feel like right nowwith this year, they're just you
know, we're just floatingbecause not not because it's
easy, but I just wanted to givethem that, you know, that space
(26:17):
to just breathe.
So yeah, gonna look into a bitup the ante a little bit and see
what what they're comfortablewith doing.
Maybe I will be making my owncurriculum again, who knows.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, no, I think you're doing it right by
starting out with kind of theunschooling approach and seeing
what their interests are.
Imagine if the teachers inschool actually asked us what
our interests were, and then wegot to like, I don't even know.
I went first so long up until Iwas like 41 years old.
Like, I don't think I have anyinterests.
I don't know.
I've just always been told whatto read, what to do, what to,
(26:52):
you know, what job to have, thatI didn't even you don't even
have the free time.
Like you might say, oh, okay, Ilike dance, but then that
you're in five dance classes,you know, you're doing dance
classes five nights a week andall of a sudden it's not fun
anymore because you know,everything's fun out of it.
Same thing with soccer, youknow, okay, practice five nights
a week and then games.
(27:12):
It's you know, it's so it's sointeresting.
And we you were talking aboutit earlier and how they just
make you so busy that one, it'sto not connect with your family,
same thing as changing the waythey do the math problems and
all that so that kids can't goto their parents.
They want to kind of sever thatbond.
But yeah, they also don't wantus figuring out what we really
(27:35):
like doing in life.
And like I recently was like,all right, let's start reading
before bed.
And I think I was going onvacation and I was like, Oh, I'd
like to have a book to read.
That would just be so nice if Ihad to read a little bit.
I mean, I got the two littlekids.
So it takes me a long time toget through a book, but now I'm
like, let's just read before bedfor even 10 minutes.
It doesn't matter if it's likethree pages, but just like I I
(27:59):
actually enjoy it and lookforward to it.
So I've got a book sittingbeside my bed right now.
Speaker (28:05):
It's a book I've started reading four times.
Just sitting next to my bedright now, and I'm like, okay, I
might have two minutes here orthere with a cup of tea, and I
might just pick it up and readtwo pages, and I'm like, okay,
we'll get through it eventually,but that's okay.
That's that's for me.
And I think that's important,especially when you've got kids
at home and especially withspecial needs, you don't have a
lot of downtime for yourselfbecause even when you're not
(28:26):
homeschooling, their needs areso high that you've got to spend
a lot of time, a lot of timewith them.
Um, I've got one girl who needssomebody with her all of the
time.
So just that for that emotionalsupport.
Um more than anything.
Yeah, that lack of time.
I think it's important thatespecially even even mums and
dads or guardians who have as ahomeschooling, you need that
(28:48):
time whether your kids arespecial needs or not.
Um, it's very, very importantto have that space.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
So that leads kind of to mynext question.
What do you do for yourself?
Because that, I mean, that is alot too.
Like my two kids are a lot.
And I have two dogs, and youjust said that you have three
and a rabbit.
So, like three dogs.
Sorry, two rabbits.
I can barely cool.
unknown (29:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
You know, I find it's oh my god, she's still got
she's still going on with theanimals they have and a
kangaroo.
Speaker (29:21):
Actually, they're straight across the grass at the
front of the house, a hundredof them in the reserve at front
of a house.
We're surrounded by animals andcats here anyway.
And we're getting adoptinganother rabbit.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Send me a picture of that.
I want to see that.
That's so cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not that I've heard.
Speaker (29:43):
Sorry, I lost track of what I was gonna say now.
Time for myself is what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
How do you not go insane because of just so many
people needing you all day long?
How do you do it?
Speaker (29:56):
So for me it's really, really difficult because I
struggle with my own Healthcondition, I have type 1
diabetes as well.
And I work a secular job aswell as um an online business.
Finding that time is very, veryhard.
But I think it what helps is,you know, my husband is amazing.
He tells me I need to stopsometimes and just take take
(30:17):
half a day, you know,homeschooling can wait, or but
also the fact that they go totheir dads as well.
So even though I do work mysecular job a lot on those weeks
that they're all those dayswhen they're with their dad, it
does give me the space just toto breathe or sit down and watch
a a movie or focus onsomething.
(30:38):
Like like you said, I don'thave a lot of interest myself
because we've been so we'vebrought up that way that we
don't haven't had that time toexplore our interests.
I struggle to pick up a bookand that's what something I'm
learning is to pick up a bookand just it's okay just to sit
and read for a while, or it'sokay to watch a movie and not do
anything else and to stop mybrain from overthinking
(30:59):
everything.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's so funny because I saw a reel today on
Instagram, and I have thought ofmaking this before too.
I'm just not like that good ofan actress.
But a mom, she had a camera onher, and she was just like
paused, and then it showed herin a different scene, paused,
and then she's the the captainis like, you finally get a
moment to yourself and you haveno idea what to do.
Speaker (31:21):
It's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The days going and everybody's like, mom, mom, mom.
You're like, oh my god, I have50 million things to do, and
then it's finally quiet, and youcan do one of those things, and
you're like, I have no idea.
I'd have no idea what to dowith my time right now.
Speaker (31:34):
Should I go have a bath?
Should I go for a walk?
Should I read a book?
I'm like, and by the timeyou've thought through all those
processes, then it's time to goand you know, you make dinner
or something like that.
And we actually haven't doneanything but overthink, but
yeah.
And you know, there's acupboard down the back of the
house somewhere that couldreally have a good
thought-through.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, I saw like uh bug spray, like an essential oil
bug spray that I got years agoyesterday leaking down the back
of my our brand new likethree-year-old pantry, and it
was just leaking all down thewalls and onto the wood.
And I'm like, uh, I shouldclean that, but the dog also got
sick in his crate and it wasall over my son's walls and
(32:17):
stuff.
Like, that's just not enough tomake it.
There are bigger like firesgoing on.
Speaker (32:24):
Correct.
Yes, correct.
I totally understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So, okay, as we round out here, are there any last
words that you kind of want togive as encouragement to
parents?
You know, because you're kindof at the start of your journey,
you're a year in.
So you've got that like freshmindset to people that are
probably listening, just likeyou.
You know, what what have youbeen listening to the podcast
and you're like, I wish somebodywould say this?
Speaker (32:48):
It's okay.
It's don't be scared.
Just take that plunge, really.
If it's something you'reconsidering on about doing, and
if it's been put sitting in theback of your mind about taking
that leap, but you don't knowwhere to start, you don't know
what to do, just do it.
You'll learn along the way.
You'll be able to create thosespaces for your kids and those
opportunities.
(33:09):
You can research the curriculumcurriculum as you go if that's
something you want to explore.
You know, everyone's childactually learns differently.
So you're gonna have to takethat time to explore those
interests and their needs andjust go with what you feel
right.
Don't worry about what otherpeople what other people think.
(33:29):
I think that's the biggestthing for me.
I was really worried about whatother people think about, you
know, they're not sitting andthey're not working from a
school book, not how our kidslearn.
So just do with what what youfeel right.
And I think I learned that alot from listening to um all of
your other guests.
Um I think I've listened tonearly every single one of them
before.
My husband was actually the onethat found you, and I said, I
(33:54):
don't know if this is gonna thispodcast is gonna be beneficial
because you know, we're inAustralia and uh, you know, I I
listened anyway and I've learnedso much, so much, and you know,
I'm so grateful that you havethis platform and you're able to
help so many people.
I encourage everyone to jump onand you know, you'll get yeah,
you'll want to listen to all ofyour podcasts.
(34:16):
Um I think that's their updatemost things.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, yeah.
But I've had a couple peoplefrom Australia on at like more
than any other country.
Speaker (34:29):
Yep, yep, yep.
I was actually really surprisedat one point in time that that
stuff is.
There's a guest from Australia,yeah.
And I think they're they weremore up New South Wales way,
which is a different state tous.
Um, but I'm like, yeah, thatand uh each state obviously has
their own what's the wordrequirements.
So we're pretty relaxed here inVictoria.
(34:50):
So as long as we're coveringthose um, you know, math
English, humanities, science,technologies, digital art, you
know, all the art, we can do ithowever we want to do it, as
long as we can provide evidencethat we're doing it.
So and we get I think we getthere's a ten percent chance
that you might get a phone callto say, hey, we're gonna come
and have a little chat with you,see where the kids are at, what
(35:12):
how you're providing theresources.
You're not gonna get in troubleif if you haven't done it a
certain way.
They're there to guide youbasically and say, Hey, have you
thought about doing it thisway?
They're not gonna say, Hey,you've got to send your kids
back to school or anything likethat.
They're just there to help andsupport.
But I like that.
Yeah, I think that's the fear.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Like here, I think in the states.
I think that's the fear.
People think, okay, if theystart putting these regulations
on, then what's next?
And then what's next?
Because our government hasproved to us if you give them a
little, they take a lot more.
So uh it is a slippery slope,but you know, and then I don't I
don't know the exactpercentage.
Are there kids that are abusedand neglected that are, you
(35:52):
know, they're not really gettinghomeschooled, they're just
parents not sending them toschool, you know.
Maybe do they how many areactually found out about that
way?
You know, I'd I'd love to knowthe numbers, but yeah.
Speaker (36:03):
Um I'm I'm sure there's a small, a small statistic of
um children that are beingneglected and aren't learning in
any way, shape, or form.
And then you've got that um thenew age now where yes, you're
you've got your kids home andthey're homeschooling, but they
sit on computers and devices allday.
They're not really learninganything.
They're just, you know, gaming.
I mean, there is a a learningexperience to gaming.
(36:25):
You know, my son does it, butwhen they're just there gaming
all day, all night, they're notyou know, there needs to there
needs to be a um a balancethere.
So I guess that's a new thingthat that's got to cater for as
well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, Jen, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Um, this has been sointeresting talking to you and
so informative and helpful toparents.
So I just thank you so much.
And I can even type up in thenotes like the little things
that you said that yourecommended so people don't have
to try to find a pen and paperand re-listen to that.
I'll just put that right in thenotes section because I think
(36:59):
that's gonna be super helpful.
Speaker (37:01):
Yeah, happy to um pop my link in for my profile for
Facebook.
I'm on Facebook and Instagram.
So if anyone's got anyquestions on, especially on the
the neurodiverse side of thingsum and sensory issues, I'm happy
to have a chat.
And I've got a few links in mybio there to to help create safe
spaces that our children are inthe most, um, being at home and
(37:24):
creating safe places for thatenvironment.
So yeah, feel free to click onthose links um and check that
out.
Awesome.
And yeah, happy to have a chat.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I'm gonna go on and hit follow right now because
sometimes I forget and uh I wantto make sure I see that stuff
too.
So thank you so much, Jam.
Have a wonderful evening.
It was really nice talking toyou today, Cheryl.
Thank you for having me on,it's been a privilege.
Welcome.
And with us today, I have Jenfrom Australia.
Welcome, Jen.
Thanks for being here.
Speaker (00:05):
Thank you.
It's a delight.
I'm really privileged to besitting here with you and having
a chat.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Now, one of my guests from Australia told me before,
and I'll have to see if this istrue.
Australia was a place they usedto send criminals.
It's like an island that theyjust sent them to.
So everybody that's there nowis like uh some sort of relative
to a criminal that was just aconvict that used to call them.
Speaker (00:27):
Yeah.
Yes, that is very true.
Yeah, Botany Bay.
Do you how long ago do youknow?
Well, we did a a little bit ofa study at the beginning of the
year with the kids.
And I'd please don't quote mebecause I don't retain a lot of
information.
Um 1860, I think, was that whenit was.
(00:48):
But don't quote me on thatbecause I don't retain
information.
But yeah, just that journey.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Not that long ago when you think of the community
scheme of things.
So it's like a grandparent ortwo ago.
A couple of things.
I mean, I could be wrong.
Speaker (01:02):
It might be um more than that, but the just that
story of them coming over andwhy, you know, why convicts came
over?
You could have just beensomeone just providing for their
family and just, you know,taking an apple and then they're
on the ship over like and thenthey were basically slaves.
They were brought over and theybuilt the camp.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Okay, so how many kids do you have and what are
their ages?
Speaker (01:28):
Yeah, so I actually have four kids, um, all
different ages.
My oldest is 19 at the end ofthe year, so December, his
December baby.
Um, he is now working and he'sdoing a trade cabinetry and
joinery, um, and he's reallyenjoying that.
He's into his second year.
So we're not homeschooling him.
He's made his own way now andhis own journey, which is
(01:48):
fantastic.
Um, my next one is uh turning16 in a couple of weeks, um, and
he's in U10.
Well, what you call U10, and Ihave two girls, 13 and 10 as
well.
Oh awesome.
So when did you starthomeschooling?
So we started at the beginningof this year for many different
reasons, I guess.
(02:08):
The school system just wasn'tworking for the challenges that
they were facing with a nearlydiagnosis of.
So I've got two on thespectrum, plus possibly a third,
so the 10, the 13, and thenearly 16-year-old.
And the sis the school systemjust wasn't working for them,
even though we had lots ofsupport at school and we had
everything set up for them, itjust still wasn't working for
(02:30):
them.
So we just had to make thatchange for them.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I hear that very often.
Like I I can homeschool becausemy kids have special needs and
they moms especially feel likethey're not adequate enough.
Like they it's intimidating tothem to saying, I can do better
than all of these services thatthe state or government are
providing.
But obviously, you're seeingthe opposite that you are more
(02:58):
than capable, even than all ofthe different resources that
they're providing you,everything that was set up.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe benefits to homeschooling
when you do have a child withspecial needs?
Speaker (03:09):
Yeah, so obviously we were faced with um school cart
or school refusal.
I'm not sure if you know thoseterms.
It's basically where they justcan't get to school.
They want to be at school, butthey just can't get to school.
It was, you know, the kids werefacing difficulties with their
processing skills and that rushto get out the door, and then
(03:30):
that would lead to them to ameltdown because they didn't
have that time to get themselvesready and be at school by 9
a.m.
Um and now they just get tohave their flow morning, they
get up on their own, and they'reable to get look, we don't
start homeschooling probablytill about 11, but that that's
what's working for them, andthat's okay, and it could
(03:50):
change.
And I just want people to knowthat that's okay.
School does not have to bebetween nine and three.
You're right.
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
Yeah.
What are some of the otherbenefits, like the one-on-one,
or have you changed curriculumseven?
Like to hey, this actuallyworks better for you than what
they were doing at school.
Speaker (04:08):
It's funny, you know.
I listened to a lot of yourinterviews and I was a bit in
the same mindset that, you know,do I have to follow a
curriculum?
Like, no, I don't.
And I did sort of at thebeginning say, okay, we went and
spent a bit of money on somebooks to work through, and very
quickly we found that that doesnot work in any way, shape, or
form.
Sitting down at a desk workingfrom a book or a computer
(04:30):
screen, however you want to dothat.
So we are sort of on the pathto unschooling, and that
happened very, very quickly andvery, very naturally.
And I think that one of thebenefits is that with that you
can cater to their interests andtheir needs and what their
goals are.
Um, I think this year for us itwas more about that that
decompression from school andlearning what their interests
(04:53):
are.
So my 13-year-old daughter,she's level two ASD and ADHD,
and she has this passion foranimals.
Like you could talk, she couldjust sit there all day and just
talk about animals and all thedifferent things about animals,
doesn't matter what it is.
It's just up there.
And she's quite obviously goingto go into that field when
she's older.
And so once a week we go outand volunteer out at a animal
(05:17):
rescue farm for her, and that'spart of her homeschooling, and
she can get hands-on with theseanimals.
And there was a sick cow outthere the other day, and I've
got a photo of her juststraddled over the back of this
cow holding its mouth and itshead so the people could
administer the medication.
And you know, they just don'tget that in in a school, that
hands-on experience, and that issuch an amazing learning
(05:38):
opportunity for her, instead ofsitting there and just reading
about it, and some like we don'tget me wrong, we still do that,
but this this is where she'slearning the most.
This is what she's gonna dolater on in her life, and that's
gonna just set her up forsuccess when she's older.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
So I think you know, yeah, she's seeing like what
other jobs there are firsthand.
She's not like hearing about itas she's scrolling through what
college degree should I get,and you know, okay, that one
sounds good.
It's like, no, here she canview what that the veterinarian
or whatever it is, homesteaderdoes on a daily basis and say,
(06:18):
Oh, I think I would like to dothat, or a variation of that.
They're actually seeing it as ajob.
Speaker (06:22):
Yeah.
Yeah, like you know, I I don'tput any restrictions on what she
can and she can't achieve orany of the children, but you
know, she might not be able tomanage going and doing a further
education anyway.
So being connected to thepeople out there that don't have
have any of those skills, theyhaven't been to school, they
haven't done any furthereducation either.
So, you know, if she picks upall of that experience, those
(06:45):
hands-on experience and thoseskills and learn that way, she
won't need to go.
She won't need to go go do thathigher education because she'll
already have that those softskills and those hands-on
experiences and learn frompeople that are already she's
already connecting with.
So that's one of the benefits.
The other benefit is, you know,being having sensory overload
(07:06):
all of the time.
The kids can just learn attheir own pace.
They can go jump on my bed andtuck themselves in and read, and
they can well, this morning mydaughter was sitting here next
to me while I was setting uphere and just doing maths and
English and phonics and stuffthat we do do a little bit of
and we haven't had done forquite some time.
(07:27):
So I said today we're justgonna sit down, 20 minutes, just
read read your book and fillout your questions.
Nothing too difficult.
So they can find a space wherethey're comfortable, where they
feel at peace, and they can andthey can just be themselves and
learn.
And I think that if if theirwell-being is being met that
way, they're gonna learn,they're gonna thrive.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
How are the schools in Australia?
Like, what has been yourexperience with them?
Speaker (07:51):
So we have moved schools all around a little bit,
like we went to a public schoolkinda, which is um age five,
four to five.
I did that in a privateschooling, which was lovely, and
we just couldn't afford at thetime to send them all the way
through pu private schooling.
Um, that was amazing.
That was really hands-on.
(08:12):
They love that, but then I hadto send them to public school,
and I think that was just theworst decision ever, ever,
because um I saw that, you know,my son at the time wasn't
allowed to hold things in hishand.
The teacher said to me that,you know, it's distracting other
children from learning whocan't hold things in his hands,
who can't scribble on a notepad,eyes have to be up at the
(08:34):
board, and but he takes thingsin by sitting there and fiddling
with things and drawingscribbles, whatever.
But he'll he'll be listening,but the teacher doesn't think
he's listening.
So, you know, that was a bit ofan eye-opener, and all these
things sort of just startedshowing up in the in the public
school system.
Even when I address the issueof, you know, what have you
(08:58):
noticed about the kids atschool?
Like I'm beginning to see somebehaviors that aren't normal.
This is way before theirdiagnosis.
And they said, no, they'refine, they're they're fitting in
well, they're doing their work,you know.
Um, they're not behind, they'rejust there, they're just
plugging along, which to mewasn't true because I was seeing
(09:18):
a whole other picture when theycame home from school.
So that was my concern that,you know, they're just ticking
boxes, they're not really intune with the what is really
going on with the kids.
Look, you know, I give teachersso much credit because, you
know, they're looking after awhole class, you know, 33
children with one teacher.
So, you know, they're notalways going to be able to have
(09:40):
that relationship with each andevery child.
But when you when you go andask questions and they can't
give you the answers, it reallymakes you think about what are
they actually learning?
What are they actuallyachieving if the teachers don't
really know what what theirinterests are and how they're
actually functioning in theclassroom as a as a student?
(10:03):
But yeah, there's so many eyeopeners in the public school
system.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Well, and when you think of it about like, oh,
they're just chugging along andoh, they're just they're getting
by, it's like what kind ofchildhood is that?
I mean, they're just setting usup for that in adulthood,
right?
Like, oh, I I've got in acubicle for 16 years just
chugging along and just gettingby.
And now that I'm outside ofthat system, I'm like, oh my
(10:27):
gosh, there's so much to learnoutside of the walls.
I mean, the just going outsideand paying attention to, you
know, insect that you've neverseen before and looking it up,
and what is that?
And you know, watching birdsbuild a nest, Miriam, and you
know, other parts of that.
Or driving by a building, Isaid to my son today, I go this
(10:51):
building that we've been byhundreds of times.
I'm like, wow, that's a reallyold building.
Is it abandoned?
Is it not?
When was it built?
What was it here for?
And um, you know, I was like,we need to look that up.
And it's just back when I waslike rushing to school, rushing
to daycare, rushing to work, Inever would have stopped to
think rushing home to makedinner, you never would have
(11:13):
stopped to think about that.
And even if you did take aweekend car ride, like it's just
your mindset is not let's lookat the world around us.
It's just, you know, whatwhat's the next thing so that
you can get to the next thingand the next thing.
So it's like all of that startsfrom the school system and they
just make us think it's okay tojust get by.
Speaker (11:32):
The system is set up that we are busy all of the
time.
We don't have the opportunitiesto really explore and take
notice of things because we'rebusy running here and busy
running there, and get home, youknow, from school, homework,
dinner, bed, and you just repeatthat every single day.
And you know, the the benefitof homeschooling is that, you
(11:56):
know, you can just get in thecar like on Monday just gone.
We just I picked up the kidsfrom their dads and we just
said, Hey, we're gonna go to theMelbourne Aquarium and you
know, we stopped to havepancakes and have that family
connection time, which wewouldn't get anyway if we were
still in that school system andwe sat and the kids ordered like
(12:18):
their breakfast and well it wasbrunch really, but you know, I
said you know, part of learningtoday is that you guys are gonna
tell the waitress what it isthat you wanna eat and drink and
you know, because they're all abit um socially challenged with
their autism spectrum.
So they need those practiceskills.
They weren't comfortable doingit, but hey, they did it and I
(12:38):
was so proud of them.
You know, and we drove intoMelbourne and you know, the kids
were just, you know, goingthrough the tunnel.
We we got underground tunnels.
I don't know if you have thosein America, but underground
tunnels and you know, they'retrying to count we've got this
green light that goes along thewall of the tunnel, and um that
means you're going at the rightspeed as long as you don't pass
this green, green line that'sdriving in front of you.
(13:00):
And you know, they're countinghow many seconds we're away from
the green line and the car infront of us and all of that.
And then we like you said aboutan old building, Melbourne has
some really beautiful oldbuildings, and I said, Wow,
isn't that a beautiful building?
And they're just looking at melike it's not new and shiny and
tall, it's like made the thebricks are made by hand and
(13:23):
they're put together by peoplethat put brick on top of brick
and just the shape of thewindows are like curved and
round, and I'm like, Do you notsee how beautiful that is?
And then they stopped and theyhad a look, and I'm like, Yeah,
that's pretty.
How did they do that?
Like, you know, and then youknow, we spent a good 10 minutes
just looking at the corner ofthis building, just talking
about it, because we had thetime to do it.
(13:44):
We went in a hurry, and yeah,yeah, you know, because we we
weren't going to Melbourne tolook at buildings, we were going
to the clearing, and but hey,look at that, we just learned
something, we saw something inthe beauty that goes into hard
work.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You're so right.
And I remember last year we hadread a book around Christmas
time about like a woodworker,and it was a children's book, it
was a really a beautiful story.
And we were driving later thatday to a play date with friends,
and we passed somebody on theroad that was making like
figurines out of wood with hishands off just on the side of
(14:19):
the road.
And I was like, that's weird.
So I was like, let's stop andask him about you know what what
he's doing because that's justwhat homeschoolers do now,
right?
Fold over and he's like, No,I've been here for years.
And I'm like, well, there'sanother thing I must have passed
a million times and neverstopped to pay attention to a
man literally in the cold with afire flooding stuff.
(14:41):
He's making bears making eaglesand owls and all that stuff.
And so he's telling me like howthey wouldn't let him put a
building up because of codes andwhere we live and stuff.
And so he's like, well, yeah,I'm just gonna do it without the
building.
And how people on the way toVermont like stop on the
weekends and he sells out everyweekend.
So then on the way home, my sonand I are talking about like,
(15:03):
okay, well, if that was your joband you sold 300, and say it
takes you a week to make 40 ofthem, and you can sell them for
$300.
What's 300 times 40?
And we're figuring that out.
And okay, well, what does hemake a year?
And okay, well, that's a jobyou could do someday.
You know, so like you're soright.
Homeschooling gives you theopportunity to like really pay
(15:25):
attention to life around you andbe part of it.
Speaker (15:27):
Yeah.
And even I'm learning on the goas well.
I'm learning so much more thanI did when I was in school.
Obviously, I went to pub umpublic schooling and and you
know, school is hard for me.
I don't don't call myself avery educated person by any
means.
But yeah, so I'm learning alongwith the kids and you know,
education has changed.
(15:48):
If the kids came home fromschool with homework, there's
just no way I could help thembecause what we learnt is no
longer uh what's the right word?
Uh it's different.
It's relevant.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's no revel relevantand um the way they do things.
So, you know, my grade sixer isdoing work that I probably
would have done in year ninebecause it keeps evolving and I
(16:10):
I just couldn't help them withit.
Um and I said, Look, we'regonna have to connect with the
teachers to help you, whichmeant they they weren't handing
their working time working ontime and that was stressful for
them.
So yeah, I just very open awakenow in the way the school
system is.
My nearly 16-year-old, I guessthis is one of his strengths,
but it's also one of hisweaknesses as well.
(16:30):
He is the most awake 15, 16year old I've ever known.
And school, he would part ofhis resistance to go to school
was because he's learning thesame thing he's learning when he
was in grade three.
It's just a little bit of extratacked on the end.
And he goes, Mum, I know allthis, and his brain, because
he's um hype functioning, hisbrain already automatically does
(16:53):
it, and he he can work it outso quickly.
That add-ons of every year.
So he's already done it in hishead twelve months ago.
So and then the teachers wantit delivered a certain way, but
that's not how he worked it out.
But it's the same answer, butthey need it answered in a
certain way.
And he goes, Why?
Why do I have to do it thatway?
(17:13):
I already know the answer, I'vealready done it, like and so we
we really struggled with thatwith him towards the end.
And I think actually he was theone that made me more awake.
Like, you know, I was alreadyon that journey anyway, but that
really just pinpointed, Well,this just is not working, is it?
Just not working.
So this year we I actually forhim made my own curriculum with
(17:35):
the help of Chat GPT.
Um nice, yeah.
So that was a reallyresourceful tool to have,
especially because he's intogaming and learning about
YouTube channels and contentcreation and things like that.
Um I have no no knowledge inthat field at all.
(17:56):
So we were able to do a basicintroduction to content creation
and gaming for him for all ofthe first semester of this year,
basically half the year.
And he loved it.
And we were able to do justchunk sizes at a time because
getting him to sit down and doeven though he's in year ten,
like you know, that year tenlevel, he can't sit there for
(18:16):
six hours with small, you know,even small breaks.
So and he also struggles withdepression as well.
So just doing little chunksevery day and letting him
connect with his friends havebeen the most beneficial, most
beneficial things for him thisyear.
So that's another benefit ifthey're struggling, struggling
mentally as well.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Yeah.
Are there other like tips andtricks that you would have for
parents who do have childrenwith special needs that like you
mentioned before, havingsomething in his hands?
Are there certain things thatyou buy for them to be able to
fiddle with or other tricks thatyou have found?
Speaker (18:51):
Yeah, so so over here in Australia we have something
called the NDIS, which is um uhdon't ask me to figure out what
that actually means, butbasically you get their
diagnosis and the governmentfunds everybody with a
disability um for money to buythese things that would be
normally be out of our pocketthat we couldn't afford.
We we have lots of fidgets inour house, you know, and each
(19:14):
one of them are very different.
My oldest boy that's um 16, helikes to chew on things, and
obviously he was chewing onthings like tin cans and sticks
and things that are actuallyvery dangerous that could harm
him.
So we're able to purchase safechewing sticks and um heavy he
(19:35):
likes weight in his hands, sothings that are heavy in his
hands to hold.
We have a wobble seat on hisdesk chair, and he likes to move
around as well.
So a lot of the time you'llI'll just find him pacing back
and forth in his room, but he'llhave his headphones on and he
can do that and he'll belistening to a documentary while
he does that, pacing back andforth.
We have like an exercise ballthat they all use.
(19:59):
We use um desk chairs at thekitchen table so that they can
swivel on um to learn.
They go out on the trampolineand they sit on the trampoline
because one of my girls likesthat that deep therapy pressure
of bouncing.
So, you know, they were able tosupply a trampoline for us,
believe it or not, so to helpwith those needs.
(20:20):
So nothing is out of thequestion really when it comes to
being able to support your kidsat home because you have
everything here that they need.
The school, such as like whenwe were in private school when I
pulled them out, they werereally good on the welfare,
their welfare was amazing, theylooked after them so well, but
even with the IEPs and thestudent support plans they had
(20:41):
in place, it wasn't enough.
And the kids didn't want totake their own personal um
sensory items with them becauseyou know, the fear of being
judged basically.
So, yeah, they couldn't takethose supports with them to be
able to help them in theclassroom.
And my daughter obviouslyreally needed a support pet, a
support animal to go with her toschool, and we had the
(21:01):
opportunity to do that and takeher rabbit to school while she
was still in grade in middleschool, so grade five and six,
where they weren't going acrossfrom classroom, different
classroom to differentclassroom, and it could easily
just stay on her desk.
The rabbit just sat there forher and she could pat it
whenever she wanted to.
None of the other kids wereallowed to touch her, that was
the rule, it was just for heruse.
Um and she that year that shehad her rabbit there, she
(21:24):
thrived.
She absolutely thrived, even inher relationships with other
students and her work.
Um, but obviously she got toyear seven, and that's when
they're going to differentclassrooms and carrying all
their books and she couldn't shecouldn't process that movement
with having the rabbit with herand safely doing that, carry all
(21:45):
of her books and her laptops.
So once she couldn't do that,we saw a dramatic, a dramatic
drop in her attendance at schooland her work, she just couldn't
cope at school in the classroomenvironment at all.
I had days where yeah, I haddays where I just couldn't get
to work because I'd drive herbecause we live country, rule,
and so it was a 30-minute driveto school.
(22:07):
So it was like pulling teacherMahin to get her out of bed and
get her going and deal withthose meltdowns in the morning,
get to school and she justwouldn't get out of the car
because she just couldn't.
She couldn't like she was sooverstimulated and dregulated
that I would have to then say,ring up work and say, Hey, I'd
(22:27):
better take my daughter backhome and look after her now
because now she I'm going toneed to spend all day helping
her re-regulate.
Speaker 1 (22:35):
You wonder how many parents would be like, Well,
let's get rid of that rabbit,because she's she's just missing
school because she wants to behome with that rabbit.
But yeah, it really issomething helping.
Speaker (22:43):
And and I am really sure some people thought that as
well.
Um but yeah, she took thatrabbit everywhere.
She she was taking it to OT.
She would take it to some.
We managed to get her to cutget it to get into Kmart
sometimes, which is a bit likeWalmart in America, but
depending who was depending whowas.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I grew up with a Kmart here, yeah.
We don't have them anymore.
Speaker (23:06):
Yeah, yeah.
So we just there's no, yeah, wedon't have a food section in
our Kmart anymore.
It used to be, it's justclothes and homewares.
But um yeah, I think theycottoned on that there was quite
a few people bringing theirpets in that unless it's a
service animal and has it ontheir little jacket, you can't
bring it in now.
So yeah, that was that and nowshe can just sit here at her
desk or on the floor, on thetrampoline with she's got three
(23:28):
dogs, you know, the dog next toher and putting his head on her
lap to keep her regulatedbecause of that deep pressure,
and she gets her work done.
And all the rabbits sitting onher desk with her on her bed,
you know, and she'll she'll beout of focus then and gets more
done.
But she's more of a hands-on, amore hands-on girl.
(23:48):
So, you know, I find that ifwe're outside in the veggie
garden or we're out at the farm,or we're down at the beach
looking in rock pools, or wherewe've got five minutes up the
road a little place calledCaldermead farm, and they have
animal nurseries and goats andlambs, and we're going out
there, and you can also view awhole milking a whole milking
(24:10):
what do you call it?
A milking farm.
It's uh open to everyone tocome and view.
So we go down there and wewatch the cows get milked and
all of that.
So just absolutely loves thatand she just learned so much.
So you've been having raw milkin Australia.
It's actually illegal inAustralia.
Speaker 1 (24:27):
It's illegal in my state too, isn't it?
So crazy.
Speaker (24:30):
Yeah, we can um the closest I can find is um
unhomogenized.
I don't even know if that'ssafe for you.
I haven't really done thatresearch, but how close that is
to raw milk, I guess is what I'mtrying to say.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Unreal.
Speaker (24:44):
We do yeah, and I really like I remember my mum
and dad, they had friends thatwere farmers, and every now and
then they just get like thesebig buckets of milk, and I was
pretty sure that was straightfrom the cow.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
Yeah.
Speaker (24:59):
Yeah, still I think that's it.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Everybody was probably healthier.
Speaker (25:02):
I was gonna say that was 42 years ago, so you know,
yes, I'm 42, so yeah, can't dothat now.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Now have you personally I know you haven't
been homeschooling too long, buthave you found even over the
years with the kids in school,are there certain curriculums or
styles of learning from thebook that are better for special
needs than that?
I know now you're kind ofleaning towards the unschooling,
so you're following theirinterests and learning through
(25:28):
that.
But is there for parents thatdo want to do a curriculum, or
is there anything that's betterthan something else?
Speaker (25:34):
I haven't really ventured into that.
Something I'm actually going tolook at for next year now that
we've had this whole year todecompress and find what their
interests are.
So I've actually just beenfollowing what your other guests
on here are doing.
So some of those things I'll belooking into, like maybe the
Waldorf, is it how I see that?
Wald off, walldoff education.
So uh yeah, something I want tolook more at.
(25:56):
I'd really like them to justreally explore more or give them
that confidence that they canlearn more than what they're
just learning now.
Because I feel like right nowwith this year, they're just you
know, we're just floatingbecause not not because it's
easy, but I just wanted to givethem that, you know, that space
(26:17):
to just breathe.
So yeah, gonna look into a bitup the ante a little bit and see
what what they're comfortablewith doing.
Maybe I will be making my owncurriculum again, who knows.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, no, I think you're doing it right by
starting out with kind of theunschooling approach and seeing
what their interests are.
Imagine if the teachers inschool actually asked us what
our interests were, and then wegot to like, I don't even know.
I went first so long up until Iwas like 41 years old.
Like, I don't think I have anyinterests.
I don't know.
I've just always been told whatto read, what to do, what to,
(26:52):
you know, what job to have, thatI didn't even you don't even
have the free time.
Like you might say, oh, okay, Ilike dance, but then that
you're in five dance classes,you know, you're doing dance
classes five nights a week andall of a sudden it's not fun
anymore because you know,everything's fun out of it.
Same thing with soccer, youknow, okay, practice five nights
a week and then games.
(27:12):
It's you know, it's so it's sointeresting.
And we you were talking aboutit earlier and how they just
make you so busy that one, it'sto not connect with your family,
same thing as changing the waythey do the math problems and
all that so that kids can't goto their parents.
They want to kind of sever thatbond.
But yeah, they also don't wantus figuring out what we really
(27:35):
like doing in life.
And like I recently was like,all right, let's start reading
before bed.
And I think I was going onvacation and I was like, Oh, I'd
like to have a book to read.
That would just be so nice if Ihad to read a little bit.
I mean, I got the two littlekids.
So it takes me a long time toget through a book, but now I'm
like, let's just read before bedfor even 10 minutes.
It doesn't matter if it's likethree pages, but just like I I
(27:59):
actually enjoy it and lookforward to it.
So I've got a book sittingbeside my bed right now.
Speaker (28:05):
It's a book I've started reading four times.
Just sitting next to my bedright now, and I'm like, okay, I
might have two minutes here orthere with a cup of tea, and I
might just pick it up and readtwo pages, and I'm like, okay,
we'll get through it eventually,but that's okay.
That's that's for me.
And I think that's important,especially when you've got kids
at home and especially withspecial needs, you don't have a
lot of downtime for yourselfbecause even when you're not
(28:26):
homeschooling, their needs areso high that you've got to spend
a lot of time, a lot of timewith them.
Um, I've got one girl who needssomebody with her all of the
time.
So just that for that emotionalsupport.
Um more than anything.
Yeah, that lack of time.
I think it's important thatespecially even even mums and
dads or guardians who have as ahomeschooling, you need that
(28:48):
time whether your kids arespecial needs or not.
Um, it's very, very importantto have that space.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah.
So that leads kind of to mynext question.
What do you do for yourself?
Because that, I mean, that is alot too.
Like my two kids are a lot.
And I have two dogs, and youjust said that you have three
and a rabbit.
So, like three dogs.
Sorry, two rabbits.
I can barely cool.
unknown (29:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
You know, I find it's oh my god, she's still got
she's still going on with theanimals they have and a
kangaroo.
Speaker (29:21):
Actually, they're straight across the grass at the
front of the house, a hundredof them in the reserve at front
of a house.
We're surrounded by animals andcats here anyway.
And we're getting adoptinganother rabbit.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Send me a picture of that.
I want to see that.
That's so cool.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Not that I've heard.
Speaker (29:43):
Sorry, I lost track of what I was gonna say now.
Time for myself is what you'redoing.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
How do you not go insane because of just so many
people needing you all day long?
How do you do it?
Speaker (29:56):
So for me it's really, really difficult because I
struggle with my own Healthcondition, I have type 1
diabetes as well.
And I work a secular job aswell as um an online business.
Finding that time is very, veryhard.
But I think it what helps is,you know, my husband is amazing.
He tells me I need to stopsometimes and just take take
(30:17):
half a day, you know,homeschooling can wait, or but
also the fact that they go totheir dads as well.
So even though I do work mysecular job a lot on those weeks
that they're all those dayswhen they're with their dad, it
does give me the space just toto breathe or sit down and watch
a a movie or focus onsomething.
(30:38):
Like like you said, I don'thave a lot of interest myself
because we've been so we'vebrought up that way that we
don't haven't had that time toexplore our interests.
I struggle to pick up a bookand that's what something I'm
learning is to pick up a bookand just it's okay just to sit
and read for a while, or it'sokay to watch a movie and not do
anything else and to stop mybrain from overthinking
(30:59):
everything.
Speaker 1 (31:00):
It's so funny because I saw a reel today on
Instagram, and I have thought ofmaking this before too.
I'm just not like that good ofan actress.
But a mom, she had a camera onher, and she was just like
paused, and then it showed herin a different scene, paused,
and then she's the the captainis like, you finally get a
moment to yourself and you haveno idea what to do.
Speaker (31:21):
It's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
The days going and everybody's like, mom, mom, mom.
You're like, oh my god, I have50 million things to do, and
then it's finally quiet, and youcan do one of those things, and
you're like, I have no idea.
I'd have no idea what to dowith my time right now.
Speaker (31:34):
Should I go have a bath?
Should I go for a walk?
Should I read a book?
I'm like, and by the timeyou've thought through all those
processes, then it's time to goand you know, you make dinner
or something like that.
And we actually haven't doneanything but overthink, but
yeah.
And you know, there's acupboard down the back of the
house somewhere that couldreally have a good
thought-through.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
Yeah, I saw like uh bug spray, like an essential oil
bug spray that I got years agoyesterday leaking down the back
of my our brand new likethree-year-old pantry, and it
was just leaking all down thewalls and onto the wood.
And I'm like, uh, I shouldclean that, but the dog also got
sick in his crate and it wasall over my son's walls and
(32:17):
stuff.
Like, that's just not enough tomake it.
There are bigger like firesgoing on.
Speaker (32:24):
Correct.
Yes, correct.
I totally understand that.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:27):
So, okay, as we round out here, are there any last
words that you kind of want togive as encouragement to
parents?
You know, because you're kindof at the start of your journey,
you're a year in.
So you've got that like freshmindset to people that are
probably listening, just likeyou.
You know, what what have youbeen listening to the podcast
and you're like, I wish somebodywould say this?
Speaker (32:48):
It's okay.
It's don't be scared.
Just take that plunge, really.
If it's something you'reconsidering on about doing, and
if it's been put sitting in theback of your mind about taking
that leap, but you don't knowwhere to start, you don't know
what to do, just do it.
You'll learn along the way.
You'll be able to create thosespaces for your kids and those
opportunities.
(33:09):
You can research the curriculumcurriculum as you go if that's
something you want to explore.
You know, everyone's childactually learns differently.
So you're gonna have to takethat time to explore those
interests and their needs andjust go with what you feel
right.
Don't worry about what otherpeople what other people think.
(33:29):
I think that's the biggestthing for me.
I was really worried about whatother people think about, you
know, they're not sitting andthey're not working from a
school book, not how our kidslearn.
So just do with what what youfeel right.
And I think I learned that alot from listening to um all of
your other guests.
Um I think I've listened tonearly every single one of them
before.
My husband was actually the onethat found you, and I said, I
(33:54):
don't know if this is gonna thispodcast is gonna be beneficial
because you know, we're inAustralia and uh, you know, I I
listened anyway and I've learnedso much, so much, and you know,
I'm so grateful that you havethis platform and you're able to
help so many people.
I encourage everyone to jump onand you know, you'll get yeah,
you'll want to listen to all ofyour podcasts.
(34:16):
Um I think that's their updatemost things.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, yeah.
But I've had a couple peoplefrom Australia on at like more
than any other country.
Speaker (34:29):
Yep, yep, yep.
I was actually really surprisedat one point in time that that
stuff is.
There's a guest from Australia,yeah.
And I think they're they weremore up New South Wales way,
which is a different state tous.
Um, but I'm like, yeah, thatand uh each state obviously has
their own what's the wordrequirements.
So we're pretty relaxed here inVictoria.
(34:50):
So as long as we're coveringthose um, you know, math
English, humanities, science,technologies, digital art, you
know, all the art, we can do ithowever we want to do it, as
long as we can provide evidencethat we're doing it.
So and we get I think we getthere's a ten percent chance
that you might get a phone callto say, hey, we're gonna come
and have a little chat with you,see where the kids are at, what
(35:12):
how you're providing theresources.
You're not gonna get in troubleif if you haven't done it a
certain way.
They're there to guide youbasically and say, Hey, have you
thought about doing it thisway?
They're not gonna say, Hey,you've got to send your kids
back to school or anything likethat.
They're just there to help andsupport.
But I like that.
Yeah, I think that's the fear.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
Like here, I think in the states.
I think that's the fear.
People think, okay, if theystart putting these regulations
on, then what's next?
And then what's next?
Because our government hasproved to us if you give them a
little, they take a lot more.
So uh it is a slippery slope,but you know, and then I don't I
don't know the exactpercentage.
Are there kids that are abusedand neglected that are, you
(35:52):
know, they're not really gettinghomeschooled, they're just
parents not sending them toschool, you know.
Maybe do they how many areactually found out about that
way?
You know, I'd I'd love to knowthe numbers, but yeah.
Speaker (36:03):
Um I'm I'm sure there's a small, a small statistic of
um children that are beingneglected and aren't learning in
any way, shape, or form.
And then you've got that um thenew age now where yes, you're
you've got your kids home andthey're homeschooling, but they
sit on computers and devices allday.
They're not really learninganything.
They're just, you know, gaming.
I mean, there is a a learningexperience to gaming.
(36:25):
You know, my son does it, butwhen they're just there gaming
all day, all night, they're notyou know, there needs to there
needs to be a um a balancethere.
So I guess that's a new thingthat that's got to cater for as
well.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Yeah, that makes sense.
Well, Jen, thank you so muchfor joining me today.
Um, this has been sointeresting talking to you and
so informative and helpful toparents.
So I just thank you so much.
And I can even type up in thenotes like the little things
that you said that yourecommended so people don't have
to try to find a pen and paperand re-listen to that.
I'll just put that right in thenotes section because I think
(36:59):
that's gonna be super helpful.
Speaker (37:01):
Yeah, happy to um pop my link in for my profile for
Facebook.
I'm on Facebook and Instagram.
So if anyone's got anyquestions on, especially on the
the neurodiverse side of thingsum and sensory issues, I'm happy
to have a chat.
And I've got a few links in mybio there to to help create safe
spaces that our children are inthe most, um, being at home and
(37:24):
creating safe places for thatenvironment.
So yeah, feel free to click onthose links um and check that
out.
Awesome.
And yeah, happy to have a chat.
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I'm gonna go on and hit follow right now because
sometimes I forget and uh I wantto make sure I see that stuff
too.
So thank you so much, Jam.
Have a wonderful evening.
It was really nice talking toyou today, Cheryl.
Thank you for having me on,it's been a privilege.
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