September 15, 2025 • 55 mins
What happens when your body can no longer endure the crushing weight of corporate expectations? For Nanako Aramaki, a Japanese-Canadian marketing executive in Tokyo, the answer came through panic attacks, hives, hair loss, and finally, a complete inability to function at work. Diagnosed with "adjustment disorder"—a condition so common in Japan it has its own term—she found herself at a crossroads that would ultimately lead to transformation.
Nanako's story weaves through continents and careers, from her childhood in Canada to her years as a professional flamenco dancer touring Europe, before returning to her birth country of Japan. Her journey reveals the stark contrast between Japan's beautiful cultural concepts like "ikigai" (life purpose) and the harsh reality of its modern work culture where "karoshi" (death from overwork) has become normalized. "Had I continued for another six months," she reflects, "I think I would have been close to dying."
During her recovery, Nanako discovered the healing power of Tibetan singing bowls—metal instruments that produce vibrations capable of inducing theta brainwave states similar to deep meditation. Unlike traditional therapy that requires verbal processing, sound therapy offered a non-invasive approach that resonated deeply with her. The vibrations penetrate muscles, organs, and bones, helping release emotions stored within the body. For a society where openly discussing mental health remains stigmatized, this approach provides a culturally compatible entry point to healing.
Now armed with twenty singing bowls and a newfound purpose, Nanako has dedicated herself to bringing this healing modality to Japan's stressed workforce. "I've always felt like there must be a way that I can help Japanese people work less or help them find their purpose," she shares. Her unique positioning as both culturally Japanese yet influenced by Western perspectives allows her to bridge worlds and create safe spaces for transformation.
Ready to experience the healing power of sound? Connect with Nanako on social media @zensowellnesstherapy or visit zenso-wellness.com to learn how ancient vibrations might be the key to modern wellness.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Sound therapy is when you use the frequency of sound
and specifically in my case, thevibrations coming off of the
Tibetan metal singing bowls.
It works with your nervoussystem and your brainwaves so
(00:21):
that it puts you in a veryrelaxed, calm, beta brainwave
state.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
My guest today on the Ikigai podcast is Nanako
Aramaki, a Japanese-Canadianliving in Japan using sound.
Nanako has had a pretty uniquelife journey thus far, being
born in Japan.
Nanako has had a pretty uniquelife journey thus far, being
born in Japan, raised in Canadaand, along the way, been a
flamenco dancer in Europe, chiefOperating Officer of a content
(00:52):
marketing agency that randigital marketing campaigns for
the Japanese andEnglish-speaking markets, she
recently found her purpose,which we will talk about in this
episode.
Thank you for joining me today,nanako.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thanks for having me here, Nick.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
My pleasure.
We had a great chat last week.
As I said, your life journeyhas been pretty interesting, so
do you want to share somehistory?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Sure Shall, I start from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Please.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, so I was born in Tokyo and when I was three my
family immigrated to Canada.
So I grew up in Canada.
I lived in Canada most of mylife until my late 20s and then
between I did study in Spain forflamenco for a year and that's
(01:41):
something that I was kind ofdoing on the side.
I had a marketing career inVancouver and then I burnt out.
I wanted to leave the corporateworld, so I moved to Berlin and
there I was doing marketingpart-time and flamenco dancing
part-time and it was such agreat time in my life because
(02:03):
that's where I found my peopleand other fellow artists.
Everyone was international andI was able to tour Germany.
I created a company, I wasteaching and it was a great time
.
But then in 2000, and when wasit 14?
(02:24):
I moved to London and I endedup staying in London for six
years because, well, first mysister was there and I really
wanted to spend time with herbecause I had left Canada quite
early on and she was youngerthan me.
So we never really got to buildthat bond.
So we had that special momentin London and then I just kind
(02:46):
of ended up staying.
I got an exceptional talentvisa as a flamenco dancer.
So I was also living an artistslash marketer's life in London
and touring the world, and thenI injured myself and realized
that I couldn't do flamencofull-time just due to the
tendonitis in my foot, and so Ihad to make a hard decision to
(03:09):
leave that and go back tomarketing full-time.
That's when I first usedJapanese for work, and since
then I met a Japanese man,married him, came to Japan and
burnt out again.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Two major burnouts.
That's quite an interestinglife.
It's like, wow, you've livedand worked in all these
countries, explored this amazingtype of dance.
As I mentioned, I dabbled alittle bit in guitar and I just
always thought oh well, flamencois so full of energy and life
and exotic and it's so authentic.
It's all natural sounds.
(03:46):
I love electric guitar, butyeah, there's something about
flamenco.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Sense of community almost in the music.
Yeah, there's just so muchhistory and it's very difficult
because it's folk art.
So you have to understand thehistory and the complicated
nuances to really fullyunderstand it and express it,
which is why it takes a lifetimeto learn flamenco, they say.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I'm sure it does.
So what was the journey todancing flamenco?
Why did you take it up?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So I don't know if you're aware of this, nick, but
Japan has the largest market forflamenco.
Like, why did you take it up?
So I don't know if you're awareof this, nick, but Japan has
the largest market for flamencoin the world.
It has more flamenco clubs andflamenco academies than in Spain
and probably the rest of theworld combined, just in Tokyo.
It's really incredible.
So it's not as popular as itused to be in like the 80s and
(04:43):
90s, but my mom always wanted totake up flamenco.
She was a dancer her entirelife but then, because we moved
to Canada, she never really hadthe opportunity and she had
three kids.
When she was a bit older, shefound my mentor, who is the
Rosario answer, and she's aMexican lady living in Vancouver
answer, and she's a Mexicanlady living in Vancouver.
(05:08):
She basically taught meeverything until I had to go to
Spain and learn more and my momwas learning from her and she
was like Nanako, I know you'redancing ballet and jazz and you
think hip hop is cool, because Iwas a teenager and she was like
I just think that you would bea great flamenco dancer, I want
you to take it.
And I was not into it.
I didn't start flamenco becauseI was interested in it.
(05:31):
I was kind of forced into it,but then, once I started, it was
so difficult that I stayed.
Of course now I love it, butthat was the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So how about Spanish?
Did you learn that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I took it in high school and in university, but I
only really became fluent, noteven when I lived in Sevilla.
It was when I lived in Berlin,because I had to communicate
with my Spanish musicians inAndalusian Spanish.
My German is not so great and alot of Spanish people don't
(06:07):
speak fluent English, so theonly common language was Spanish
, and then I became fluent inGermany.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Wow, and do you still dance or are you still part of
the flamenco community in Japan?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, so I only really like dabbled my feet in
flamenco in Tokyo because I wasworking so much and towards the
end I was COO of Tamlo and so mypriority was there.
So I haven't performed in overa year, but there was a good
couple years where I was dancing, maybe once or twice a month.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Nice.
I remember my mother took me toMadrid when I was 16.
It was really weird.
I could go and see a bullfightand see these bulls getting
killed, but I couldn't go into abar or a restaurant to see
flamenco dancing and guitar andI was really disappointed.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So I'll have to go back.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
You'll have to take me somewhere in Tokyo.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, unfortunately a few of the tablaos closed down,
but there's still lots offlamenco here.
So, yeah, definitely hit me upwhen you're here, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So let's talk about Japan.
So you were born in Japan andleft at the age of three, so how
much did Japanese culture playa part of your life when you
were growing up in Canada?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Great question.
I think it was a huge part ofmy life, but at the time,
because I lived in Canada,especially in Vancouver, where
it's very multicultural, Ididn't realize how big that was,
because it was so normal to bespeaking a second language or
your mother tongue at home andhave a completely different
(07:52):
culture at home.
But then you'd all go to schooland meet with friends and be
Canadians and we were allCanadian.
I didn't realize how Japanese Iwas until I moved to Europe
where people are like where areyou really from or why are you
Japanese, but Canadian dancingflamenco in Germany.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, pretty pretty rare combination yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah.
So that's when I started tothink about my identity and I
didn't really have an issue.
And I still don't really havean issue with my identity, but
it's just more like when I livedin London Again, very
multicultural, veryinternational.
And then living in Japan hasbeen a game changer.
For the first time I am themajority I have never been the
(08:43):
majority population and so Iblend in.
People think I'm Japanese.
I improve my Japanese enoughfor people to think that I grew
up here.
That's been a reallyinteresting experience living in
Japan as a Japanese woman,because I don't think you can do
that, looking like a foreigner,but I have these foreign
perspectives.
So it's been very interesting,to say the least.
(09:05):
But I think I've realized thatI was raised with Japanese
values.
My grandparents lived with mehalf the year and so I had to
speak in Japanese at home and mymom would always tell me like,
don't throw the books, they havea spirit, they're sad when you
throw the books.
So a lot of Shinto values andthings like that and Japanese
(09:28):
food wonderful.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I guess you're really fortunate because you often
hear stories of people fromChina or wherever move to a
country like Australia and theydon't learn their parents
Malatang.
Maybe they're born here andthen later they go back to their
roots and kind of regret notbeing able to speak the language
.
So it must be wonderful for youto be able to freely
(09:53):
communicate in several languages.
And it's kind of weird.
You feel like part of themajority in Japan, but I guess
you felt that too in Canada.
You grew up in Canada, so youprobably have vague memories of
Japan.
But I guess you felt that tooin Canada.
You grew up in Canada, so youprobably have vague memories of
Japan up until the age of three.
But you'd probably say well,most of my childhood memories,
(10:15):
my teenage memories, are all inCanada.
But did you ever feel like aforeigner in Canada, or just
felt like Canadian, like aforeigner in Canada, or?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
just felt like Canadian.
That's interesting.
I never felt like a foreignerin Canada.
I was really fortunate to havebeen raised in a city where
there's very little racism, or Ididn't face any.
You know, it was really rareI'd have to go into like a small
town and then I was refusedservice at a pub once and they
couldn't give a reason, but thatwas about it.
(10:47):
Maybe one other time, when I wasstill maybe like 10 and my
sister and I with my mom, wewere speaking in Japanese in a
pet store and there was an oldlady, I think she's got a
British background, and she waslike, why don't you speak
English?
I don't remember my momresponding, but apparently she
(11:10):
said can you speak Japanese?
What other languages do youspeak?
And apparently that shut her up.
But that's like the level ofracism that I face, which is
very minimal, and I'm very luckybecause I hear about similar
people growing up in the States,for example in the US, and you
(11:31):
know they feel like they're notAmerican enough there and then
they come to Japan and theydon't feel Japanese enough.
I didn't have that experience.
I don't have that trauma.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Nice, well, that's good.
Well, what brought you back toJapan?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Nick, I moved here during the pandemic.
It was really wild.
So I met my husband while I wastouring Japan, and it was long
distance and the plan was forhim to live with me in London.
But when we were supposed toget married, the pandemic hit
and we got stuck in London.
But when we were supposed toget married, the pandemic hit
and we got stuck in London andwe were supposed to have a
(12:09):
wedding in Japan.
So we had to make the harddecision to.
Well, it wasn't that hard,because the world stopped and I
had one grandmother who wasmaybe 89 or 90 at the time and
she was alone just outside ofTokyo and my parents having only
Canadian passports, it wouldhave been a bit complicated for
(12:32):
them to be flown into Japan ifthere was an emergency, and so I
thought it would be great if Icould find a way to just be here
in case anything happened, justto be close to her, because she
must have been very lonelybeing alone.
And although Japan wasn't lockeddown like it was, in London
people are very abiding of rules, so a lot of people really
(12:56):
avoided meeting people in publicor even going over to other
people's homes.
That was a really beautifultime, a couple of years that I
got to spend with my grandmother, nice.
So that was the main reason andI always wanted to live in
Japan.
I've only lived here duringsummer breaks in middle school,
high school or as a child, andnever as an adult just visiting.
(13:19):
But I wanted to live and workhere, so living my dream, which
sort of turned into a bit of anightmare.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So let's talk about this LinkedIn post that caught
my eye and you put this onvarious social media and why I
reached out to you.
Here we go Imagine experiencingpanic attacks, hives, eczema,
hair loss, insomnia anddigestive issues.
I developed all of thosesymptoms over five months as a
(13:48):
result of severe burnout I wentthrough last year.
Then one Monday morning inNovember I opened up my laptop
and froze.
The sheer number of tasks feltlike a brick wall collapsing on
me.
I couldn't move, I couldn'trespond to a single email and I
couldn't stop crying.
The next day, the doctor toldme this is adjustment disorder.
(14:10):
It's common in Japan and itusually gets better with six
months away from work.
So I think it's really brave ofyou to put that out there and
share that.
You also wrote about whatadjustment disorder is and I
hadn't heard about it, eventhough it's quite common in
Japan.
So if you want to explain whatadjustment disorder is or if you
(14:34):
want to touch on thatexperience before you do, please
feel free to do so.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sure, so it's not something that I shared publicly
until that post because Iwasn't feeling well enough to go
there.
But basically I had beenoverworked and burnout for
several months at work and it'snot the company's fault.
Like, I was part of managementand we were just having a really
(15:01):
difficult time hiring the rightpeople with the right skills,
were just having a reallydifficult time hiring the right
people with the right skills andI think most of it was to do
with my personality of not beingable to say no and not asking
for help.
And, as I told you, I've burntout in Canada and actually in
London a little bit as well, andit's just a pattern.
Basically, my body was tellingme to stop and I finally stopped
(15:24):
when it was impossible to work.
And I was really surprised atwhat the doctor said, because
apparently it's what Empress,mas're exposed to extreme
amounts of stress, that it kindof becomes trauma, and when
(15:50):
you're put in a situation thatcaused the trauma in my case, I
was having anxiety and panicattacks.
So my doctor told me to stopworking and do nothing, which I
am terrible at doing.
So I tried my best, but thenevery time I found myself in
(16:10):
like a stressful situation whereit wasn't going the way that I
wanted to or I had to planseveral different things within
a certain time frame during theday.
It was very similar to what Ihad to deal with at work and I
would have a panic attack andthat wouldn't go away until I
officially resonated from myposition.
But I'm totally fine now.
(16:31):
It's just very much associatedwith work, which is different
from having chronic anxiety ordepression, which is not only
related to work.
It's like every other aspect ofyour life, but for me it was
just triggered by work.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thank you for sharing that.
What did the doctor recommend?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I actually chose this doctor because I saw on the
website that they offeralternative modalities like
kampo, traditional Chinesemedicine, which I would have
preferred.
But when I went to actuallyspeak to the doctor he was like
kampo doesn't really work,really work, and if you're this
(17:46):
sick, I recommend that you takethese anti-anxiety pills,
sleeping pills and digestionpills for your stomach issues.
I think that was it at the time, but it was already enough that
it kind of put me off.
I was like there surely must besome other ways to treat
(18:08):
adjustment disorder.
Because I looked it up, I did aGoogle search in English and it
said almost always it must beaccompanied by talk therapy,
some kind of counseling on topof medication in the beginning.
But it's not a permanentsolution.
But it seems in Japan the onlyoption that they provide is the
(18:31):
medication, or at least thedoctor that I went to see and I
don't think it's his fault he'sa really lovely doctor.
He's been very helpful.
He's just not a trainedpsychologist, so he can only
prescribe TILS trainedpsychologist so he can only
(18:51):
prescribe TILS.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Sure, there is something called Mordicter
therapy.
When someone is going throughextreme anxiety and they can't
function.
They basically say, do nothingfor a number of weeks and kind
of live with your anxiety.
But they take you to somewherein nature, like you'll be living
in some accommodation in nature, and then slowly they get you
back into doing small tasks andthen daily chores, talk therapy,
(19:15):
I guess, and then over time youkind of just heal or get better
.
But I guess then after that youhave to make sort of a better
lifestyle choice.
So what you experienced, Ithink, is called teki or shougai
.
Yes, so it's common enough inJapan to have a word.
I've never heard adjustmentdisorder ever.
So I think it speaks to howworkplace stress is so common in
(19:38):
Japan that it's oh, it's justadjustment disorder.
Take six months off and thencome back to work.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Is that how it felt?
Well, that's what the doctorsaid.
He's like oh, it's just tiki oshogai.
I've had many, many clients,patients that they recover after
three to six months away fromwork and then you just gradually
go back like you will be finewith time, and I was like, oh
wow, that's terrible, that it'scommon.
(20:06):
I was also really not surprisedand, for those who are unaware,
karoshi is a thing in Japanwhere people die from
overworking and honestly I don'twant to freak anybody out,
especially people at my company,but had I continued for another
(20:27):
six months, I think I wouldhave been close to dying because
it's just so unhealthy to beunder that much stress and to
think that the entire societyhere in Japan works like that.
Not everybody, but a lot ofpeople feel like that's their
only option and that's howthey're living day to day.
(20:51):
I can't imagine having continuedthe way I was working and
that's why I wanted to helppeople, and a part of that has
to do with me becoming a littlebit too Japanese.
Like when I moved here, Ireally wanted to become a good
(21:12):
Japanese citizen and, you know,really take on the customs.
I take pride in the fact thatpeople think that I'm Japanese
when I'm here and I don't havean accent and you know I have
the mannerisms, but I alsopicked up the behavioralisms and
it's too much to work that wayand to always be people pleasing
.
I still express myself freely,but it's more than that.
(21:33):
I think we need to change thementality, but also the way the
community thinks here.
That, I think, is a biggerchallenge, because it's actually
what makes Japan beautiful andI don't think changing that is
the solution.
I think that we just need tonormalize talking about these
(21:54):
kinds of mental health issuesand trying to minimize the
stigma around getting help whenyou have something like that.
I think even that is a goodstart.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I do too.
It's interesting.
You have this cultural value oflike gaman, you know gaman sudu
.
To some degree it can behelpful, but then, once it's
getting to this point whereyou're physically suffering from
it like you did, it's just nothealthy for you and then
(22:25):
eventually you have to take timeoff work, so it's not good for
the company and all that sort ofthing.
So there's always been this ideaof japan has all these social
customs or norms of like maywork, a cuckoo idea, like
consider others, don't causetrouble, which can be beautiful.
And you see that on publictransportation, no one's on
their phone, everyone's sociallyaware.
(22:47):
But then when it's to theextreme and they can't freely
express themselves, so theycan't on public transportation,
no one's on their phone,everyone's socially aware.
But then when it's to theextreme and they can't freely
express themselves or they can'ttalk about their problems, then
it must be such a burden.
But then it's kind of alsonormal.
It's really kind of weird.
So I struggle with it.
I see it in my Japanese family.
In Japan they have issues.
I see it with some of myfriends.
One of my friends' son sufferedfrom mutism and the father
(23:12):
didn't know that.
He was just not talking atschool.
The parents didn't know becausethe school didn't tell them.
And then one day at a festivalthey bumped into one of his
friends and they'd gone like, ohhey, you should speak more at
school.
And then my friends thinking,well, my son's not speaking at
(23:33):
school.
And then he contacted theschool and then they were like,
oh no, he's just really reallyshy, isn't he?
And outside of school he wasn't.
But yeah, he had this mutismand then he would go to school
and study in the sick bay and hewouldn't participate in classes
.
But I don't think they got himany professional help.
(23:56):
And now I think he's sociallyvery, very awkward and has no
friends, and now he's like auniversity student.
And so I think if that happenedhere in Australia or maybe in
Canada, it would be handled verydifferently.
So it's almost this passive wayof handling problems, in sort
of the hope it'll eventually getbetter over time, and that it
(24:19):
usually doesn't.
So I found it really hard whenI saw it in Japan.
I was like, oh, like, shouldn'tyou get some counselling, or
shouldn't you go as a wholefamily and get some counselling
or do something?
So how did you end uprecovering?
Because your burnout wasextreme.
And then here you are.
Now you're looking happy andradiant.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So better than my old self yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
How did I recover?
So I stopped working and I wastraveling because a part of me
felt like maybe I just need toleave Japan to feel more free
and myself which I do feel morelike myself when I'm abroad.
And I went to a yoga retreat inBali and that was nice, but it
(25:10):
was actually quite the schedule.
I wouldn't say I burnt out fromthe yoga, but I'm just very
terrible at not doing anything.
But the Bali trip was greatbecause that's where I found
sound baths and sound therapyand where I got the idea to do
Japanese sound baths in Japan.
(25:31):
My husband's a taiko drummer soI thought if we team up we
could do a Japanese version.
So that was great for thatideation.
And then I went to Spain forover a month.
That was for flamenco, but alsoto visit my friends, because a
part of me always felt like Iwent to Spain for over a month,
that was for flamenco, but alsoto visit my friends, because a
part of me always felt like Iwanted to move back to Spain,
(25:53):
this time living in maybe Madridor like in the countryside, and
I had several different friendsliving across the country,
having very different lives, andso I kind of wanted to see them
and see how it was to live inSpain today.
It was a great trip but again Iwas really tired.
(26:14):
Afterwards I came back withperspective that it's tough to
live in Europe right now.
And it was a great trip becauseit made me realize that I
should be in Japan, that I'mprobably meant to be in Japan
right now Because I've alwayswanted to help people.
I actually wanted to studypsychology in university and I
(26:36):
switched because I'm veryimpatient and I didn't want to
study for eight years to becomea therapist.
But I was always interested incounseling and therapy and
helping people and I realizedthat during my break it was
really difficult for me to goback to work and that was what
was stopping me and wascontinuing to give me anxiety.
(27:00):
So every month I had to make adecision to go back to work and
every month I would have ananxiety attack because I felt
like I wasn't ready to go backto work.
And every month I would have ananxiety attack because I felt
like I wasn't ready to go backto work.
And so finally, the company islike we can't wait for you
anymore, like this is themaximum amount of time that we
can wait for you and we'd behappy to discuss different ways
(27:21):
of working with you after that,but you can no longer be a full
time employee.
The decision was very difficultbecause I love the company and
I love all my colleagues.
We were like family and I wasreally working there as if it
was my own company.
It was really difficult to cometo that decision, but when I
did make that decision it justwent away.
(27:44):
The adjustment disorder just100% disappeared.
Oh nice, just gone.
So that's how I recovered.
It was through quitting, but notjust that.
If I remained to be the sameperson that I was when I got
adjustment disorder, I think Iwould have gone back to work.
I would have been the sameresponsible Nanako, going back
(28:07):
to work and pleasing everybodyand saying yes to everybody.
But because I recognized thosepatterns and the programming in
me that I wanted to change, Imade that really difficult
decision and I overcame sometraumas as well.
I overcame some traumas as well.
I did have a coach, so shehelped me a bit, but a lot of it
(28:29):
.
I did some shadow work myself,and then these trips to like
Bali, and then I went to ChiangMai to study sound therapy.
All of those trips were sohealing for me in terms of
(28:50):
facing my programming and sortof traumas.
I think that's necessary toimprove and recover.
Otherwise you're going toprobably fall back into the same
pattern.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It sounds like you kind of knew that you couldn't
go back.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I did, but I was really hard set on going
back.
Even until April I was like I'mdefinitely going back, I just
need one more month.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So if we talk about your life now, you're in this
niche of the wellness space withsound therapy.
So what is sound therapy?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Sound therapy is when you use the frequency of sound
and specifically, in my case,the vibrations coming off of the
Tibetan metal singing bowls andyour brainwaves, so that it
(29:52):
puts you in a very relaxed, calm, theta brainwave state, which
helps with overthinking If youhave anxiety or you just need to
relax.
You're too stressed, you havetoo much in your head and you
need to clear that.
This really helps.
And it also works with yournervous system, especially the
metal balls that you do on body.
(30:13):
It penetrates deep into yourmuscles and into your organs and
even into your bones, and soit's really tangible.
The effects and the clients thatI've been helping so far, the
clients that I've been helpingso far, they say that it's
better than a massage.
(30:38):
Or I've had people who havereleased emotions that they've
kept inside their bodies foryears.
Some people cry because that'swhat happens when things get
released from your body, youknow.
So I just thought it was agreat method when compared to
something like therapy, whereyou have to speak, and when you
speak you have to have anacknowledgement of what's going
(31:01):
on, what your traumas are, andyou have to verbalize these
things, which can be a bighurdle for some people who are
maybe not ready to face thosethings, but with sound it's so
non-invasive, like all you haveto do is lie down, let the bowls
do the work and if things comeup, then that's where I would
(31:24):
bring in my coaching and I canprovide a safe space for people
to talk about it or not, likeyou can just treat it like a
relaxation massage and then gohome and sleep really, really
well.
So there are so many differentlevels that I thought was really
great and accessible bydifferent walks of life.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Nice, I did see one of your Insta videos.
You had like a small ball onsomeone's calf and you were I
was like wow, I was like, oh, Ididn't know, you could actually
massage the body with thevibrations of the ball, so that
was really interesting.
So how did you stumble upon itand what attracted you about it?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I told you about the sound bath in Bali, but that
was not the thing where I waslike I really want to study this
.
I met my mentor, ali Young,from Chiang Mai Holistic in
Tokyo.
He was here with his team togive a sound bath and he was
actually giving training here,but it was in Japanese and so I
(32:34):
really liked his sound bath.
I just didn't feel any ego fromhim.
I think you need to stay awayfrom wellness people who sort of
coined themselves as guru.
They don't exist.
You know it's not real.
It's not real.
But this guy was just soselfless and just had great
energy.
You can sense these people andhe was just doing it out of love
(32:58):
of these bowls and helpingpeople.
I really appreciated that and Igot a one-on-one session with
him and I really liked thatone-on-one session.
He put bowls on top of my bodyand was like releasing energy
from my body and I just reallyliked it.
And so I just decided to go andstudy in Chiang Mai and I did
(33:20):
that a couple of months ago andit was such a great experience.
I didn't realize that it wouldbe so healing for me experience.
I didn't realize that it wouldbe so healing for me.
I thought I would be learningtechniques and walking away just
learning how to do it on otherpeople, but I walked away like a
new person and so manyrevelations about myself.
(33:41):
So I really highly recommend itif that's what you're looking
for, like if you're in atransformative phase in your
life, you're looking for answersand you're stressed out.
Even if you're just stressedout, it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
That could be me.
I mean, even when you pursuework that really inspires you or
work you really want to do, youtend to overwork because you
enjoy the work and then you doget stressed.
I think I was pretty close tocoming to burnout a few months
ago because I was finishing abook.
I'd written a book and I wasmeant to do a launch, and then I
(34:20):
was in Japan preparing andrecording content for my retreat
and I felt like I'm not doingany of these things properly.
I'm sort of taking too much onagain.
So I didn't really enjoy thetrip in Japan.
I was having a good time, likeI was going out and meeting
everyone and then end up sort ofdrinking almost every day.
(34:41):
So that took a toll.
Sort of in the back of my mindit's like oh, I've got this book
, I still need to write.
I've got this other book I'velaunched and I've finished, but
I'm not really launching it.
And I kind of had thisreflection like you always do
this, you always take on toomuch work.
It's probably similar to you.
(35:01):
I just can't help myself andthen I don't really have any
self-care practice.
It sounds like something likethis, where you're fully allowed
to surrender yourself tosomething and it's healing.
It sounds so interestingbecause he's got the beautiful
sound of the balls and then thevibration.
It's obviously got a prettylong history.
(35:23):
It's like one of those types ofhealing that the West will then
research and then validatehundreds of years later and go
oh yeah, this actually works.
So we were exchanging DMs and Iasked if you had discovered
your ikigai through learningsound therapy, but you replied
that it was shime, your purpose,sort of finding a purpose
(35:46):
finding your purpose.
So do you want to speak on that?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Sure, I think the reason why I couldn't go back to
work and do marketing wasbecause I never felt like
marketing was my purpose.
I didn't feel any ikigai fromdoing marketing.
But the part that I loved aboutmy job that I felt was my
ikigai was the people helpingpart.
I loved to help my clients.
(36:13):
I helped the global teamsbecome closer to their Japanese
teams.
Maybe in the past they weremisunderstood, but I would come
in and, with my fluent English,convince them no, this is really
how it is in Japan, and so I'dbe like vouching for the Team
(36:34):
Japan.
So they were happy and Global'shappy and everyone was happy
and I really liked to do that.
I was looking for ways to findmy purpose in the marketing, but
it wasn't the marketing and Istill felt like it wasn't
directly helping people enough,like it was too indirect for me,
and so when I discovered soundtherapy, what I loved about it
(36:58):
was that I get to work withpeople, even if it's one-on-one
or five to 50 people in a room.
I am directly helping thesepeople become more relaxed or
happier, and that's what I'vealways wanted to do.
In these little moments Ireally do feel like it's my
(37:22):
shimei, like I was born to dothis to help people.
I'm not saying that I'm reallygood at it yet, but I think I'm
on the right path well, that'swonderful and that should be
celebrated.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
When you do think you've found oh, this just fits
me, this is what I want to do,this is my purpose.
There's always a social elementto it, but it sounds very
intimate.
What you you're doing, you'rewith the person, you're sort of
healing them with sound, so itmust be very fulfilling and
rewarding.
So that's wonderful.
And now I'm going to quote youagain.
(37:57):
You wrote Now, with my 20singing balls, I'm ready to
soundbath the shit out of thiscountry.
So is your bigger purpose?
Is it to help Japanese peoplewith burnout and to prevent
burnout with sound therapy andwellness coaching?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, thank you for putting it all together,
wrapping it up nicely.
I've always felt like theremust be a way that I can help
Japanese people work less orhelp them find their purpose,
because I feel like a lot ofpeople here feel there's no
(38:40):
other option, like everyone'ssuffering together so there's no
other way out, or it's normalto do a job that you hate.
You just go home and do thestuff you love at home when you
have no time.
In terms of Japan, I alwaysfelt like if we can help to let
(39:01):
these people see there isanother way, or if they could
just find the confidence tobelieve in themselves, to have
better role models, then maybethey can step out of the box.
And for years I was like, oh, Iwanted to become a coach, but
(39:21):
is that really going to helpJapanese people?
And so I never really took thatstep because I didn't think
that it would be effective interms of impacting the masses.
Of course, there are reallyopen-minded Japanese people who
are already taking coaching andtherapy and stuff like that, for
sure.
But if we're talking about like, the average salary, man or
(39:45):
woman, I just thought soundtherapy is a nice way in,
because it doesn't force them totalk about anything, and there
are people who are looking forways to relax, and so it's a
little bit more accessible.
But yeah, I feel like with mycultural background and my
communication skills, people maybe having less of a hurdle to
(40:08):
approach me because I amJapanese.
Then that's what it is.
That's what my purpose is is tohelp the Japanese people.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, this is really good because it's touching on
not just purpose.
You have this role and it'slike a role you've kind of
created or you've brought tolife through your experiences of
burnout and then discoveringsound therapy and this desire to
help people.
So I think we find our purposewhen we create this role, where
(40:40):
we can fully express ourselves.
There is some uniqueness to itand it helps others.
Do you see it also as like oh,this is my role to offer society
or to offer others, or have younever thought it in that way?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I've just started, so I don't know how it's going to
turn out, and I don't know ifrole is the right term, but I
definitely would like to becomea leader in the space or a role
model that helps people torealize that you don't have to
be a corporate slave at a jobthat you hate in order to
(41:20):
survive in Japan.
There are other ways, and I'vemet lots of amazing Japanese
people that have found a way tosurvive in this society.
Yeah, and a lot of them arefreelancers.
They're incredible people.
I think if we start tonormalize living a different way
, like these incredible peoplethat I've met, then maybe there
(41:41):
will be others who are sufferingwho will realize that, okay,
there is an option, there is adifferent way to still make a
living and be accepted bysociety and be happy.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's interesting you say that because of all my
Japanese friends, the ones whoare happiest and free and
fulfilled are all freelance orthey will have their own
business.
But it is interesting.
I've often thought, wow, youknow, japan has all these
(42:17):
beautiful cultural concepts orvalues harmony, ikigai, this
idea of utori like space and yettheir modern culture is so
stressed.
And how can they have a wordlike utori or ikigai and then
have a word like karoshi orhikikomori, where they're either
dying at work or they don'twant to participate in society,
(42:41):
so they basically lockthemselves away for years?
So it's like they have theanswers in their own culture.
But I don't want to say likeWestern influence, but just
capitalism.
There's a price to pay, like ifwe want to prosper
materialistically, and weprobably have to accept some
(43:01):
people will prosper and otherswill suffer.
So I almost think the answer toJapan's problems is within their
culture.
It's just so normal for them.
It's something they wouldn'teven think about turning to.
So I almost think, oh, I shouldgo back to Japan and do I need
to work with someone to say, hey, you guys are forgetting this
(43:23):
one concept that really matters?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of Japanesedo have their ikigai and it's
often a coping mechanism forthem.
It can be healthy or unhealthy,so it could be the beer at the
end of the day for a salary man,or it could be someone's pet or
anime or gaming, but I think itreally matters when it's tied
(43:44):
to your social world and you'repart of community and you feel
like you have a role or maybe asense of belonging, and that
doesn't really exist in Japan,in in a city like Tokyo yeah, in
Tokyo, the sense of communityis definitely lost in a lot of
(44:04):
the areas.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So it's not just foreigners that feel lonely in
Tokyo, it's everyone who livesin Tokyo that feels lonely.
And what you said was sosignificant because I think a
lot of Japanese people have losttouch with their roots.
All of these beautiful conceptsthat the West have taken, it's
(44:27):
from here.
You know why aren't wepracticing it here?
And it's almost likeGyakuryu-nyu, brought back,
imported back into Japan fromthe West and is made cool and
trendy, and that's why somepeople are realizing those
things again.
But I think that we need tobring it back and take ownership
(44:55):
of all of these tools thatoriginated from Japan.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
For sure.
Well, let's talk about thissound therapy, which is a tool
you're using, so I know youbriefly mentioned you would also
hope it could open the door foryou to have discussions with
your clients on their mentalhealth and well-being.
So have you had that happen yet?
Has someone been comfortabletalking about their well-being
and issues?
Speaker 1 (45:21):
It depends on the person.
But if they're open to it andthere are underlying issues that
have been brought up orhighlighted during the sessions,
then I have had people who haveopened up and have talked about
it Through discussions.
(45:42):
I would understand sort ofwhere we need to focus on.
Would understand sort of wherewe need to focus on and it's not
always just me analyzing thedata, but the bulls also speak.
(46:03):
So when you put the bull onyour body and it absorbs the
sound really fast, it means youhave a blockage there.
It's really crazy because it'sthe same bull, same person,
different area of the body andof course there are softer areas
, harder areas that can affectit.
But sometimes it's like and thesound disappears immediately,
and other times it's like and itjust stays.
(46:27):
So then that gives me a reasonto focus on that energy point.
But not everyone's ready totalk about that kind of stuff.
That's something where I use mysensor and just use my
discretion.
If they are seem open and havegiven me information, then I'm
(46:51):
there to listen and provideadvice if they ask for it.
If not, I just hit the bulls.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Well, let's summarize the benefits of sound therapy
again, because maybe someone'sin Tokyo listening to this and
maybe they might want to havesound bath with you.
So how do they help you?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
So the sound waves from the bowls put your brain in
a theta brainwave state, whichis a relaxed state.
It's what your brain is goingthrough during meditation, so it
almost forces you into thismeditative state, which is great
for those who are not so greatat meditation.
(47:35):
I used to be like this.
I needed help from music to gointo this state.
This is essentially doing thatfor you, and when you're in that
state, your body is relaxed,your nervous system gets a reset
and your body is in a statewhere it can improve its natural
(47:55):
ability to heal, and that'sphysical and emotional healing.
So that's a big benefit.
And then the other one is thatit balances your energy and your
mind.
Your mind and body both getbalanced out through the sound
(48:15):
waves.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
It also sounds like it helps with insomnia.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Thank you for bringing that up.
Yes, so I've had a friend I onlydid it for like 20 minutes on
her had a friend I only did itfor like 20 minutes on her and
she told me that the next day,like, wow, Nanako, I slept for
14 hours last night.
And I've had other people whohave been suffering from
insomnia, like severe insomnia,for months, and the night that I
(48:44):
performed the Sambath he sleptreally well.
So, yeah, if you're havingtrouble sleeping or if you have
issues with overthinkingespecially for those who are
working too much with books towrite and people to coach and
multiple projects and family andfriends and everything and you
(49:05):
have so much to think about itputs you in a state where the
sound actually makes you stopthinking.
I feel like it's helpfulbecause you just go there and
then it happens like you juststop thinking, Whereas, like, if
you try to follow a meditationroutine and you're like, okay,
I'm going to not think now for10 minutes, Do you really not
(49:28):
think for 10 minutes?
Because I used to try tomeditate while I was working in
marketing and I would end upmaking like a to-do list All the
things that I haven't finished,but it gave me the time to
organize my thoughts.
It was still effective in thatsense, but it was not meditation
(49:48):
.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It was still effective in that sense, but it
was not meditation.
Well, that's an interestingthing because I had a recent
guest, a Zen priest His name isTose Ishinabe, and I had the
same assumption as you.
It's like you're trying toclear your mind and blah, blah,
blah right, and he's going.
No, you pick something to focuson and think about the problem
(50:13):
and you exhaust all the answers.
I was like you got to bekidding me.
He's going.
No, like you cannot not thinkright.
So you choose something tocontemplate, something that's on
your mind, and you just kind of, in some sort of open-minded,
relaxed way, you justcontemplate on that concern or
issue or could even probably bea positive thing, and then you
bring yourself back to it if youstray away.
(50:35):
And I couldn't believe it.
I was like, well, that's likethe opposite of what we're told
in the west.
The west is like, oh, you'vegot to clear your mind and as a
thought comes, you kind of letit pass and let it pass.
There's definitely differentschools on meditation.
But I I was like, wow, is thatwhat Zen is Like?
Oh, okay, that certainly wasn'twhat I was expecting.
All right, before you give me aZoom sound bath, how can people
(51:00):
reach out to you?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I guess if you are on LinkedIn, you can connect with
me.
I post wellness tips every weekand I have my Instagram, which
is great if that's more of yourway of consuming content,
because I post real videos andshorter content that's
consumable.
And I just started TikTok too,so I'm on there as well, and now
(51:29):
I have Facebook as well.
You can find me at atzensowellnesstherapy on all of
those platforms, or you can goto my website, zenso-wellnesscom
.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Awesome.
We will put your website andthe links to the socials in the
show notes.
So, yeah, it's been funconnecting and can you help me
with my insomnia?
And?
Speaker 1 (51:59):
my anxiety.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Give me a soundbar, please.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, thanks for having me here, nick.
I'd be happy to give you a minisound bath, okay All right,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Real joy to connect.
So what we're going to do nowis you're going to move to a
little what would you call it,your little e-bash on.
My sound tatami room and we'llend with this wonderful soundbar
.
Thank you.
Sound therapy is when you use the frequency of sound
and specifically in my case, thevibrations coming off of the
Tibetan metal singing bowls.
It works with your nervoussystem and your brainwaves so
(00:21):
that it puts you in a veryrelaxed, calm, beta brainwave
state.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
My guest today on the Ikigai podcast is Nanako
Aramaki, a Japanese-Canadianliving in Japan using sound.
Nanako has had a pretty uniquelife journey thus far, being
born in Japan.
Nanako has had a pretty uniquelife journey thus far, being
born in Japan, raised in Canadaand, along the way, been a
flamenco dancer in Europe, chiefOperating Officer of a content
(00:52):
marketing agency that randigital marketing campaigns for
the Japanese andEnglish-speaking markets, she
recently found her purpose,which we will talk about in this
episode.
Thank you for joining me today,nanako.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thanks for having me here, Nick.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
My pleasure.
We had a great chat last week.
As I said, your life journeyhas been pretty interesting, so
do you want to share somehistory?
Speaker 1 (01:16):
Sure Shall, I start from the beginning.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Please.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Okay, so I was born in Tokyo and when I was three my
family immigrated to Canada.
So I grew up in Canada.
I lived in Canada most of mylife until my late 20s and then
between I did study in Spain forflamenco for a year and that's
(01:41):
something that I was kind ofdoing on the side.
I had a marketing career inVancouver and then I burnt out.
I wanted to leave the corporateworld, so I moved to Berlin and
there I was doing marketingpart-time and flamenco dancing
part-time and it was such agreat time in my life because
(02:03):
that's where I found my peopleand other fellow artists.
Everyone was international andI was able to tour Germany.
I created a company, I wasteaching and it was a great time
.
But then in 2000, and when wasit 14?
(02:24):
I moved to London and I endedup staying in London for six
years because, well, first mysister was there and I really
wanted to spend time with herbecause I had left Canada quite
early on and she was youngerthan me.
So we never really got to buildthat bond.
So we had that special momentin London and then I just kind
(02:46):
of ended up staying.
I got an exceptional talentvisa as a flamenco dancer.
So I was also living an artistslash marketer's life in London
and touring the world, and thenI injured myself and realized
that I couldn't do flamencofull-time just due to the
tendonitis in my foot, and so Ihad to make a hard decision to
(03:09):
leave that and go back tomarketing full-time.
That's when I first usedJapanese for work, and since
then I met a Japanese man,married him, came to Japan and
burnt out again.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Two major burnouts.
That's quite an interestinglife.
It's like, wow, you've livedand worked in all these
countries, explored this amazingtype of dance.
As I mentioned, I dabbled alittle bit in guitar and I just
always thought oh well, flamencois so full of energy and life
and exotic and it's so authentic.
It's all natural sounds.
(03:46):
I love electric guitar, butyeah, there's something about
flamenco.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Sense of community almost in the music.
Yeah, there's just so muchhistory and it's very difficult
because it's folk art.
So you have to understand thehistory and the complicated
nuances to really fullyunderstand it and express it,
which is why it takes a lifetimeto learn flamenco, they say.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I'm sure it does.
So what was the journey todancing flamenco?
Why did you take it up?
Speaker 1 (04:23):
So I don't know if you're aware of this, nick, but
Japan has the largest market forflamenco.
Like, why did you take it up?
So I don't know if you're awareof this, nick, but Japan has
the largest market for flamencoin the world.
It has more flamenco clubs andflamenco academies than in Spain
and probably the rest of theworld combined, just in Tokyo.
It's really incredible.
So it's not as popular as itused to be in like the 80s and
(04:43):
90s, but my mom always wanted totake up flamenco.
She was a dancer her entirelife but then, because we moved
to Canada, she never really hadthe opportunity and she had
three kids.
When she was a bit older, shefound my mentor, who is the
Rosario answer, and she's aMexican lady living in Vancouver
answer, and she's a Mexicanlady living in Vancouver.
(05:08):
She basically taught meeverything until I had to go to
Spain and learn more and my momwas learning from her and she
was like Nanako, I know you'redancing ballet and jazz and you
think hip hop is cool, because Iwas a teenager and she was like
I just think that you would bea great flamenco dancer, I want
you to take it.
And I was not into it.
I didn't start flamenco becauseI was interested in it.
(05:31):
I was kind of forced into it,but then, once I started, it was
so difficult that I stayed.
Of course now I love it, butthat was the beginning.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So how about Spanish?
Did you learn that?
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I took it in high school and in university, but I
only really became fluent, noteven when I lived in Sevilla.
It was when I lived in Berlin,because I had to communicate
with my Spanish musicians inAndalusian Spanish.
My German is not so great and alot of Spanish people don't
(06:07):
speak fluent English, so theonly common language was Spanish
, and then I became fluent inGermany.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Wow, and do you still dance or are you still part of
the flamenco community in Japan?
Speaker 1 (06:22):
Yeah, so I only really like dabbled my feet in
flamenco in Tokyo because I wasworking so much and towards the
end I was COO of Tamlo and so mypriority was there.
So I haven't performed in overa year, but there was a good
couple years where I was dancing, maybe once or twice a month.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Nice.
I remember my mother took me toMadrid when I was 16.
It was really weird.
I could go and see a bullfightand see these bulls getting
killed, but I couldn't go into abar or a restaurant to see
flamenco dancing and guitar andI was really disappointed.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
So I'll have to go back.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
You'll have to take me somewhere in Tokyo.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, unfortunately a few of the tablaos closed down,
but there's still lots offlamenco here.
So, yeah, definitely hit me upwhen you're here, awesome.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
So let's talk about Japan.
So you were born in Japan andleft at the age of three, so how
much did Japanese culture playa part of your life when you
were growing up in Canada?
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Great question.
I think it was a huge part ofmy life, but at the time,
because I lived in Canada,especially in Vancouver, where
it's very multicultural, Ididn't realize how big that was,
because it was so normal to bespeaking a second language or
your mother tongue at home andhave a completely different
(07:52):
culture at home.
But then you'd all go to schooland meet with friends and be
Canadians and we were allCanadian.
I didn't realize how Japanese Iwas until I moved to Europe
where people are like where areyou really from or why are you
Japanese, but Canadian dancingflamenco in Germany.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, pretty pretty rare combination yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah.
So that's when I started tothink about my identity and I
didn't really have an issue.
And I still don't really havean issue with my identity, but
it's just more like when I livedin London Again, very
multicultural, veryinternational.
And then living in Japan hasbeen a game changer.
For the first time I am themajority I have never been the
(08:43):
majority population and so Iblend in.
People think I'm Japanese.
I improve my Japanese enoughfor people to think that I grew
up here.
That's been a reallyinteresting experience living in
Japan as a Japanese woman,because I don't think you can do
that, looking like a foreigner,but I have these foreign
perspectives.
So it's been very interesting,to say the least.
(09:05):
But I think I've realized thatI was raised with Japanese
values.
My grandparents lived with mehalf the year and so I had to
speak in Japanese at home and mymom would always tell me like,
don't throw the books, they havea spirit, they're sad when you
throw the books.
So a lot of Shinto values andthings like that and Japanese
(09:28):
food wonderful.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
I guess you're really fortunate because you often
hear stories of people fromChina or wherever move to a
country like Australia and theydon't learn their parents
Malatang.
Maybe they're born here andthen later they go back to their
roots and kind of regret notbeing able to speak the language
.
So it must be wonderful for youto be able to freely
(09:53):
communicate in several languages.
And it's kind of weird.
You feel like part of themajority in Japan, but I guess
you felt that too in Canada.
You grew up in Canada, so youprobably have vague memories of
Japan.
But I guess you felt that tooin Canada.
You grew up in Canada, so youprobably have vague memories of
Japan up until the age of three.
But you'd probably say well,most of my childhood memories,
(10:15):
my teenage memories, are all inCanada.
But did you ever feel like aforeigner in Canada, or just
felt like Canadian, like aforeigner in Canada, or?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
just felt like Canadian.
That's interesting.
I never felt like a foreignerin Canada.
I was really fortunate to havebeen raised in a city where
there's very little racism, or Ididn't face any.
You know, it was really rareI'd have to go into like a small
town and then I was refusedservice at a pub once and they
couldn't give a reason, but thatwas about it.
(10:47):
Maybe one other time, when I wasstill maybe like 10 and my
sister and I with my mom, wewere speaking in Japanese in a
pet store and there was an oldlady, I think she's got a
British background, and she waslike, why don't you speak
English?
I don't remember my momresponding, but apparently she
(11:10):
said can you speak Japanese?
What other languages do youspeak?
And apparently that shut her up.
But that's like the level ofracism that I face, which is
very minimal, and I'm very luckybecause I hear about similar
people growing up in the States,for example in the US, and you
(11:31):
know they feel like they're notAmerican enough there and then
they come to Japan and theydon't feel Japanese enough.
I didn't have that experience.
I don't have that trauma.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Nice, well, that's good.
Well, what brought you back toJapan?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Nick, I moved here during the pandemic.
It was really wild.
So I met my husband while I wastouring Japan, and it was long
distance and the plan was forhim to live with me in London.
But when we were supposed toget married, the pandemic hit
and we got stuck in London.
But when we were supposed toget married, the pandemic hit
and we got stuck in London andwe were supposed to have a
(12:09):
wedding in Japan.
So we had to make the harddecision to.
Well, it wasn't that hard,because the world stopped and I
had one grandmother who wasmaybe 89 or 90 at the time and
she was alone just outside ofTokyo and my parents having only
Canadian passports, it wouldhave been a bit complicated for
(12:32):
them to be flown into Japan ifthere was an emergency, and so I
thought it would be great if Icould find a way to just be here
in case anything happened, justto be close to her, because she
must have been very lonelybeing alone.
And although Japan wasn't lockeddown like it was, in London
people are very abiding of rules, so a lot of people really
(12:56):
avoided meeting people in publicor even going over to other
people's homes.
That was a really beautifultime, a couple of years that I
got to spend with my grandmother, nice.
So that was the main reason andI always wanted to live in
Japan.
I've only lived here duringsummer breaks in middle school,
high school or as a child, andnever as an adult just visiting.
(13:19):
But I wanted to live and workhere, so living my dream, which
sort of turned into a bit of anightmare.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
So let's talk about this LinkedIn post that caught
my eye and you put this onvarious social media and why I
reached out to you.
Here we go Imagine experiencingpanic attacks, hives, eczema,
hair loss, insomnia anddigestive issues.
I developed all of thosesymptoms over five months as a
(13:48):
result of severe burnout I wentthrough last year.
Then one Monday morning inNovember I opened up my laptop
and froze.
The sheer number of tasks feltlike a brick wall collapsing on
me.
I couldn't move, I couldn'trespond to a single email and I
couldn't stop crying.
The next day, the doctor toldme this is adjustment disorder.
(14:10):
It's common in Japan and itusually gets better with six
months away from work.
So I think it's really brave ofyou to put that out there and
share that.
You also wrote about whatadjustment disorder is and I
hadn't heard about it, eventhough it's quite common in
Japan.
So if you want to explain whatadjustment disorder is or if you
(14:34):
want to touch on thatexperience before you do, please
feel free to do so.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
Sure, so it's not something that I shared publicly
until that post because Iwasn't feeling well enough to go
there.
But basically I had beenoverworked and burnout for
several months at work and it'snot the company's fault.
Like, I was part of managementand we were just having a really
(15:01):
difficult time hiring the rightpeople with the right skills,
were just having a reallydifficult time hiring the right
people with the right skills andI think most of it was to do
with my personality of not beingable to say no and not asking
for help.
And, as I told you, I've burntout in Canada and actually in
London a little bit as well, andit's just a pattern.
Basically, my body was tellingme to stop and I finally stopped
(15:24):
when it was impossible to work.
And I was really surprised atwhat the doctor said, because
apparently it's what Empress,mas're exposed to extreme
amounts of stress, that it kindof becomes trauma, and when
(15:50):
you're put in a situation thatcaused the trauma in my case, I
was having anxiety and panicattacks.
So my doctor told me to stopworking and do nothing, which I
am terrible at doing.
So I tried my best, but thenevery time I found myself in
(16:10):
like a stressful situation whereit wasn't going the way that I
wanted to or I had to planseveral different things within
a certain time frame during theday.
It was very similar to what Ihad to deal with at work and I
would have a panic attack andthat wouldn't go away until I
officially resonated from myposition.
But I'm totally fine now.
(16:31):
It's just very much associatedwith work, which is different
from having chronic anxiety ordepression, which is not only
related to work.
It's like every other aspect ofyour life, but for me it was
just triggered by work.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
Thank you for sharing that.
What did the doctor recommend?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I actually chose this doctor because I saw on the
website that they offeralternative modalities like
kampo, traditional Chinesemedicine, which I would have
preferred.
But when I went to actuallyspeak to the doctor he was like
kampo doesn't really work,really work, and if you're this
(17:46):
sick, I recommend that you takethese anti-anxiety pills,
sleeping pills and digestionpills for your stomach issues.
I think that was it at the time, but it was already enough that
it kind of put me off.
I was like there surely must besome other ways to treat
(18:08):
adjustment disorder.
Because I looked it up, I did aGoogle search in English and it
said almost always it must beaccompanied by talk therapy,
some kind of counseling on topof medication in the beginning.
But it's not a permanentsolution.
But it seems in Japan the onlyoption that they provide is the
(18:31):
medication, or at least thedoctor that I went to see and I
don't think it's his fault he'sa really lovely doctor.
He's been very helpful.
He's just not a trainedpsychologist, so he can only
prescribe TILS trainedpsychologist so he can only
(18:51):
prescribe TILS.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Sure, there is something called Mordicter
therapy.
When someone is going throughextreme anxiety and they can't
function.
They basically say, do nothingfor a number of weeks and kind
of live with your anxiety.
But they take you to somewherein nature, like you'll be living
in some accommodation in nature, and then slowly they get you
back into doing small tasks andthen daily chores, talk therapy,
(19:15):
I guess, and then over time youkind of just heal or get better
.
But I guess then after that youhave to make sort of a better
lifestyle choice.
So what you experienced, Ithink, is called teki or shougai
.
Yes, so it's common enough inJapan to have a word.
I've never heard adjustmentdisorder ever.
So I think it speaks to howworkplace stress is so common in
(19:38):
Japan that it's oh, it's justadjustment disorder.
Take six months off and thencome back to work.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Is that how it felt?
Well, that's what the doctorsaid.
He's like oh, it's just tiki oshogai.
I've had many, many clients,patients that they recover after
three to six months away fromwork and then you just gradually
go back like you will be finewith time, and I was like, oh
wow, that's terrible, that it'scommon.
(20:06):
I was also really not surprisedand, for those who are unaware,
karoshi is a thing in Japanwhere people die from
overworking and honestly I don'twant to freak anybody out,
especially people at my company,but had I continued for another
(20:27):
six months, I think I wouldhave been close to dying because
it's just so unhealthy to beunder that much stress and to
think that the entire societyhere in Japan works like that.
Not everybody, but a lot ofpeople feel like that's their
only option and that's howthey're living day to day.
(20:51):
I can't imagine having continuedthe way I was working and
that's why I wanted to helppeople, and a part of that has
to do with me becoming a littlebit too Japanese.
Like when I moved here, Ireally wanted to become a good
(21:12):
Japanese citizen and, you know,really take on the customs.
I take pride in the fact thatpeople think that I'm Japanese
when I'm here and I don't havean accent and you know I have
the mannerisms, but I alsopicked up the behavioralisms and
it's too much to work that wayand to always be people pleasing
.
I still express myself freely,but it's more than that.
(21:33):
I think we need to change thementality, but also the way the
community thinks here.
That, I think, is a biggerchallenge, because it's actually
what makes Japan beautiful andI don't think changing that is
the solution.
I think that we just need tonormalize talking about these
(21:54):
kinds of mental health issuesand trying to minimize the
stigma around getting help whenyou have something like that.
I think even that is a goodstart.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
I do too.
It's interesting.
You have this cultural value oflike gaman, you know gaman sudu
.
To some degree it can behelpful, but then, once it's
getting to this point whereyou're physically suffering from
it like you did, it's just nothealthy for you and then
(22:25):
eventually you have to take timeoff work, so it's not good for
the company and all that sort ofthing.
So there's always been this ideaof japan has all these social
customs or norms of like maywork, a cuckoo idea, like
consider others, don't causetrouble, which can be beautiful.
And you see that on publictransportation, no one's on
their phone, everyone's sociallyaware.
(22:47):
But then when it's to theextreme and they can't freely
express themselves, so theycan't on public transportation,
no one's on their phone,everyone's socially aware.
But then when it's to theextreme and they can't freely
express themselves or they can'ttalk about their problems, then
it must be such a burden.
But then it's kind of alsonormal.
It's really kind of weird.
So I struggle with it.
I see it in my Japanese family.
In Japan they have issues.
I see it with some of myfriends.
One of my friends' son sufferedfrom mutism and the father
(23:12):
didn't know that.
He was just not talking atschool.
The parents didn't know becausethe school didn't tell them.
And then one day at a festivalthey bumped into one of his
friends and they'd gone like, ohhey, you should speak more at
school.
And then my friends thinking,well, my son's not speaking at
(23:33):
school.
And then he contacted theschool and then they were like,
oh no, he's just really reallyshy, isn't he?
And outside of school he wasn't.
But yeah, he had this mutismand then he would go to school
and study in the sick bay and hewouldn't participate in classes
.
But I don't think they got himany professional help.
(23:56):
And now I think he's sociallyvery, very awkward and has no
friends, and now he's like auniversity student.
And so I think if that happenedhere in Australia or maybe in
Canada, it would be handled verydifferently.
So it's almost this passive wayof handling problems, in sort
of the hope it'll eventually getbetter over time, and that it
(24:19):
usually doesn't.
So I found it really hard whenI saw it in Japan.
I was like, oh, like, shouldn'tyou get some counselling, or
shouldn't you go as a wholefamily and get some counselling
or do something?
So how did you end uprecovering?
Because your burnout wasextreme.
And then here you are.
Now you're looking happy andradiant.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
So better than my old self yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:47):
How did I recover?
So I stopped working and I wastraveling because a part of me
felt like maybe I just need toleave Japan to feel more free
and myself which I do feel morelike myself when I'm abroad.
And I went to a yoga retreat inBali and that was nice, but it
(25:10):
was actually quite the schedule.
I wouldn't say I burnt out fromthe yoga, but I'm just very
terrible at not doing anything.
But the Bali trip was greatbecause that's where I found
sound baths and sound therapyand where I got the idea to do
Japanese sound baths in Japan.
(25:31):
My husband's a taiko drummer soI thought if we team up we
could do a Japanese version.
So that was great for thatideation.
And then I went to Spain forover a month.
That was for flamenco, but alsoto visit my friends, because a
part of me always felt like Iwent to Spain for over a month,
that was for flamenco, but alsoto visit my friends, because a
part of me always felt like Iwanted to move back to Spain,
(25:53):
this time living in maybe Madridor like in the countryside, and
I had several different friendsliving across the country,
having very different lives, andso I kind of wanted to see them
and see how it was to live inSpain today.
It was a great trip but again Iwas really tired.
(26:14):
Afterwards I came back withperspective that it's tough to
live in Europe right now.
And it was a great trip becauseit made me realize that I
should be in Japan, that I'mprobably meant to be in Japan
right now Because I've alwayswanted to help people.
I actually wanted to studypsychology in university and I
(26:36):
switched because I'm veryimpatient and I didn't want to
study for eight years to becomea therapist.
But I was always interested incounseling and therapy and
helping people and I realizedthat during my break it was
really difficult for me to goback to work and that was what
was stopping me and wascontinuing to give me anxiety.
(27:00):
So every month I had to make adecision to go back to work and
every month I would have ananxiety attack because I felt
like I wasn't ready to go backto work.
And every month I would have ananxiety attack because I felt
like I wasn't ready to go backto work.
And so finally, the company islike we can't wait for you
anymore, like this is themaximum amount of time that we
can wait for you and we'd behappy to discuss different ways
(27:21):
of working with you after that,but you can no longer be a full
time employee.
The decision was very difficultbecause I love the company and
I love all my colleagues.
We were like family and I wasreally working there as if it
was my own company.
It was really difficult to cometo that decision, but when I
did make that decision it justwent away.
(27:44):
The adjustment disorder just100% disappeared.
Oh nice, just gone.
So that's how I recovered.
It was through quitting, but notjust that.
If I remained to be the sameperson that I was when I got
adjustment disorder, I think Iwould have gone back to work.
I would have been the sameresponsible Nanako, going back
(28:07):
to work and pleasing everybodyand saying yes to everybody.
But because I recognized thosepatterns and the programming in
me that I wanted to change, Imade that really difficult
decision and I overcame sometraumas as well.
I overcame some traumas as well.
I did have a coach, so shehelped me a bit, but a lot of it
(28:29):
.
I did some shadow work myself,and then these trips to like
Bali, and then I went to ChiangMai to study sound therapy.
All of those trips were sohealing for me in terms of
(28:50):
facing my programming and sortof traumas.
I think that's necessary toimprove and recover.
Otherwise you're going toprobably fall back into the same
pattern.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
It sounds like you kind of knew that you couldn't
go back.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, I did, but I was really hard set on going
back.
Even until April I was like I'mdefinitely going back, I just
need one more month.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So if we talk about your life now, you're in this
niche of the wellness space withsound therapy.
So what is sound therapy?
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Sound therapy is when you use the frequency of sound
and specifically, in my case,the vibrations coming off of the
Tibetan metal singing bowls andyour brainwaves, so that it
(29:52):
puts you in a very relaxed, calm, theta brainwave state, which
helps with overthinking If youhave anxiety or you just need to
relax.
You're too stressed, you havetoo much in your head and you
need to clear that.
This really helps.
And it also works with yournervous system, especially the
metal balls that you do on body.
(30:13):
It penetrates deep into yourmuscles and into your organs and
even into your bones, and soit's really tangible.
The effects and the clients thatI've been helping so far, the
clients that I've been helpingso far, they say that it's
better than a massage.
(30:38):
Or I've had people who havereleased emotions that they've
kept inside their bodies foryears.
Some people cry because that'swhat happens when things get
released from your body, youknow.
So I just thought it was agreat method when compared to
something like therapy, whereyou have to speak, and when you
speak you have to have anacknowledgement of what's going
(31:01):
on, what your traumas are, andyou have to verbalize these
things, which can be a bighurdle for some people who are
maybe not ready to face thosethings, but with sound it's so
non-invasive, like all you haveto do is lie down, let the bowls
do the work and if things comeup, then that's where I would
(31:24):
bring in my coaching and I canprovide a safe space for people
to talk about it or not, likeyou can just treat it like a
relaxation massage and then gohome and sleep really, really
well.
So there are so many differentlevels that I thought was really
great and accessible bydifferent walks of life.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Nice, I did see one of your Insta videos.
You had like a small ball onsomeone's calf and you were I
was like wow, I was like, oh, Ididn't know, you could actually
massage the body with thevibrations of the ball, so that
was really interesting.
So how did you stumble upon itand what attracted you about it?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
So I told you about the sound bath in Bali, but that
was not the thing where I waslike I really want to study this
.
I met my mentor, ali Young,from Chiang Mai Holistic in
Tokyo.
He was here with his team togive a sound bath and he was
actually giving training here,but it was in Japanese and so I
(32:34):
really liked his sound bath.
I just didn't feel any ego fromhim.
I think you need to stay awayfrom wellness people who sort of
coined themselves as guru.
They don't exist.
You know it's not real.
It's not real.
But this guy was just soselfless and just had great
energy.
You can sense these people andhe was just doing it out of love
(32:58):
of these bowls and helpingpeople.
I really appreciated that and Igot a one-on-one session with
him and I really liked thatone-on-one session.
He put bowls on top of my bodyand was like releasing energy
from my body and I just reallyliked it.
And so I just decided to go andstudy in Chiang Mai and I did
(33:20):
that a couple of months ago andit was such a great experience.
I didn't realize that it wouldbe so healing for me experience.
I didn't realize that it wouldbe so healing for me.
I thought I would be learningtechniques and walking away just
learning how to do it on otherpeople, but I walked away like a
new person and so manyrevelations about myself.
(33:41):
So I really highly recommend itif that's what you're looking
for, like if you're in atransformative phase in your
life, you're looking for answersand you're stressed out.
Even if you're just stressedout, it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
That could be me.
I mean, even when you pursuework that really inspires you or
work you really want to do, youtend to overwork because you
enjoy the work and then you doget stressed.
I think I was pretty close tocoming to burnout a few months
ago because I was finishing abook.
I'd written a book and I wasmeant to do a launch, and then I
(34:20):
was in Japan preparing andrecording content for my retreat
and I felt like I'm not doingany of these things properly.
I'm sort of taking too much onagain.
So I didn't really enjoy thetrip in Japan.
I was having a good time, likeI was going out and meeting
everyone and then end up sort ofdrinking almost every day.
(34:41):
So that took a toll.
Sort of in the back of my mindit's like oh, I've got this book
, I still need to write.
I've got this other book I'velaunched and I've finished, but
I'm not really launching it.
And I kind of had thisreflection like you always do
this, you always take on toomuch work.
It's probably similar to you.
(35:01):
I just can't help myself andthen I don't really have any
self-care practice.
It sounds like something likethis, where you're fully allowed
to surrender yourself tosomething and it's healing.
It sounds so interestingbecause he's got the beautiful
sound of the balls and then thevibration.
It's obviously got a prettylong history.
(35:23):
It's like one of those types ofhealing that the West will then
research and then validatehundreds of years later and go
oh yeah, this actually works.
So we were exchanging DMs and Iasked if you had discovered
your ikigai through learningsound therapy, but you replied
that it was shime, your purpose,sort of finding a purpose
(35:46):
finding your purpose.
So do you want to speak on that?
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Sure, I think the reason why I couldn't go back to
work and do marketing wasbecause I never felt like
marketing was my purpose.
I didn't feel any ikigai fromdoing marketing.
But the part that I loved aboutmy job that I felt was my
ikigai was the people helpingpart.
I loved to help my clients.
(36:13):
I helped the global teamsbecome closer to their Japanese
teams.
Maybe in the past they weremisunderstood, but I would come
in and, with my fluent English,convince them no, this is really
how it is in Japan, and so I'dbe like vouching for the Team
(36:34):
Japan.
So they were happy and Global'shappy and everyone was happy
and I really liked to do that.
I was looking for ways to findmy purpose in the marketing, but
it wasn't the marketing and Istill felt like it wasn't
directly helping people enough,like it was too indirect for me,
and so when I discovered soundtherapy, what I loved about it
(36:58):
was that I get to work withpeople, even if it's one-on-one
or five to 50 people in a room.
I am directly helping thesepeople become more relaxed or
happier, and that's what I'vealways wanted to do.
In these little moments Ireally do feel like it's my
(37:22):
shimei, like I was born to dothis to help people.
I'm not saying that I'm reallygood at it yet, but I think I'm
on the right path well, that'swonderful and that should be
celebrated.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
When you do think you've found oh, this just fits
me, this is what I want to do,this is my purpose.
There's always a social elementto it, but it sounds very
intimate.
What you you're doing, you'rewith the person, you're sort of
healing them with sound, so itmust be very fulfilling and
rewarding.
So that's wonderful.
And now I'm going to quote youagain.
(37:57):
You wrote Now, with my 20singing balls, I'm ready to
soundbath the shit out of thiscountry.
So is your bigger purpose?
Is it to help Japanese peoplewith burnout and to prevent
burnout with sound therapy andwellness coaching?
Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yeah, thank you for putting it all together,
wrapping it up nicely.
I've always felt like theremust be a way that I can help
Japanese people work less orhelp them find their purpose,
because I feel like a lot ofpeople here feel there's no
(38:40):
other option, like everyone'ssuffering together so there's no
other way out, or it's normalto do a job that you hate.
You just go home and do thestuff you love at home when you
have no time.
In terms of Japan, I alwaysfelt like if we can help to let
(39:01):
these people see there isanother way, or if they could
just find the confidence tobelieve in themselves, to have
better role models, then maybethey can step out of the box.
And for years I was like, oh, Iwanted to become a coach, but
(39:21):
is that really going to helpJapanese people?
And so I never really took thatstep because I didn't think
that it would be effective interms of impacting the masses.
Of course, there are reallyopen-minded Japanese people who
are already taking coaching andtherapy and stuff like that, for
sure.
But if we're talking about like, the average salary, man or
(39:45):
woman, I just thought soundtherapy is a nice way in,
because it doesn't force them totalk about anything, and there
are people who are looking forways to relax, and so it's a
little bit more accessible.
But yeah, I feel like with mycultural background and my
communication skills, people maybe having less of a hurdle to
(40:08):
approach me because I amJapanese.
Then that's what it is.
That's what my purpose is is tohelp the Japanese people.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
Yeah, this is really good because it's touching on
not just purpose.
You have this role and it'slike a role you've kind of
created or you've brought tolife through your experiences of
burnout and then discoveringsound therapy and this desire to
help people.
So I think we find our purposewhen we create this role, where
(40:40):
we can fully express ourselves.
There is some uniqueness to itand it helps others.
Do you see it also as like oh,this is my role to offer society
or to offer others, or have younever thought it in that way?
Speaker 1 (40:58):
I've just started, so I don't know how it's going to
turn out, and I don't know ifrole is the right term, but I
definitely would like to becomea leader in the space or a role
model that helps people torealize that you don't have to
be a corporate slave at a jobthat you hate in order to
(41:20):
survive in Japan.
There are other ways, and I'vemet lots of amazing Japanese
people that have found a way tosurvive in this society.
Yeah, and a lot of them arefreelancers.
They're incredible people.
I think if we start tonormalize living a different way
, like these incredible peoplethat I've met, then maybe there
(41:41):
will be others who are sufferingwho will realize that, okay,
there is an option, there is adifferent way to still make a
living and be accepted bysociety and be happy.
Speaker 2 (41:56):
It's interesting you say that because of all my
Japanese friends, the ones whoare happiest and free and
fulfilled are all freelance orthey will have their own
business.
But it is interesting.
I've often thought, wow, youknow, japan has all these
(42:17):
beautiful cultural concepts orvalues harmony, ikigai, this
idea of utori like space and yettheir modern culture is so
stressed.
And how can they have a wordlike utori or ikigai and then
have a word like karoshi orhikikomori, where they're either
dying at work or they don'twant to participate in society,
(42:41):
so they basically lockthemselves away for years?
So it's like they have theanswers in their own culture.
But I don't want to say likeWestern influence, but just
capitalism.
There's a price to pay, like ifwe want to prosper
materialistically, and weprobably have to accept some
(43:01):
people will prosper and otherswill suffer.
So I almost think the answer toJapan's problems is within their
culture.
It's just so normal for them.
It's something they wouldn'teven think about turning to.
So I almost think, oh, I shouldgo back to Japan and do I need
to work with someone to say, hey, you guys are forgetting this
(43:23):
one concept that really matters?
Yeah, I mean, a lot of Japanesedo have their ikigai and it's
often a coping mechanism forthem.
It can be healthy or unhealthy,so it could be the beer at the
end of the day for a salary man,or it could be someone's pet or
anime or gaming, but I think itreally matters when it's tied
(43:44):
to your social world and you'repart of community and you feel
like you have a role or maybe asense of belonging, and that
doesn't really exist in Japan,in in a city like Tokyo yeah, in
Tokyo, the sense of communityis definitely lost in a lot of
(44:04):
the areas.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
So it's not just foreigners that feel lonely in
Tokyo, it's everyone who livesin Tokyo that feels lonely.
And what you said was sosignificant because I think a
lot of Japanese people have losttouch with their roots.
All of these beautiful conceptsthat the West have taken, it's
(44:27):
from here.
You know why aren't wepracticing it here?
And it's almost likeGyakuryu-nyu, brought back,
imported back into Japan fromthe West and is made cool and
trendy, and that's why somepeople are realizing those
things again.
But I think that we need tobring it back and take ownership
(44:55):
of all of these tools thatoriginated from Japan.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
For sure.
Well, let's talk about thissound therapy, which is a tool
you're using, so I know youbriefly mentioned you would also
hope it could open the door foryou to have discussions with
your clients on their mentalhealth and well-being.
So have you had that happen yet?
Has someone been comfortabletalking about their well-being
and issues?
Speaker 1 (45:21):
It depends on the person.
But if they're open to it andthere are underlying issues that
have been brought up orhighlighted during the sessions,
then I have had people who haveopened up and have talked about
it Through discussions.
(45:42):
I would understand sort ofwhere we need to focus on.
Would understand sort of wherewe need to focus on and it's not
always just me analyzing thedata, but the bulls also speak.
(46:03):
So when you put the bull onyour body and it absorbs the
sound really fast, it means youhave a blockage there.
It's really crazy because it'sthe same bull, same person,
different area of the body andof course there are softer areas
, harder areas that can affectit.
But sometimes it's like and thesound disappears immediately,
and other times it's like and itjust stays.
(46:27):
So then that gives me a reasonto focus on that energy point.
But not everyone's ready totalk about that kind of stuff.
That's something where I use mysensor and just use my
discretion.
If they are seem open and havegiven me information, then I'm
(46:51):
there to listen and provideadvice if they ask for it.
If not, I just hit the bulls.
Speaker 2 (47:00):
Well, let's summarize the benefits of sound therapy
again, because maybe someone'sin Tokyo listening to this and
maybe they might want to havesound bath with you.
So how do they help you?
Speaker 1 (47:13):
So the sound waves from the bowls put your brain in
a theta brainwave state, whichis a relaxed state.
It's what your brain is goingthrough during meditation, so it
almost forces you into thismeditative state, which is great
for those who are not so greatat meditation.
(47:35):
I used to be like this.
I needed help from music to gointo this state.
This is essentially doing thatfor you, and when you're in that
state, your body is relaxed,your nervous system gets a reset
and your body is in a statewhere it can improve its natural
(47:55):
ability to heal, and that'sphysical and emotional healing.
So that's a big benefit.
And then the other one is thatit balances your energy and your
mind.
Your mind and body both getbalanced out through the sound
(48:15):
waves.
Speaker 2 (48:18):
It also sounds like it helps with insomnia.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Thank you for bringing that up.
Yes, so I've had a friend I onlydid it for like 20 minutes on
her had a friend I only did itfor like 20 minutes on her and
she told me that the next day,like, wow, Nanako, I slept for
14 hours last night.
And I've had other people whohave been suffering from
insomnia, like severe insomnia,for months, and the night that I
(48:44):
performed the Sambath he sleptreally well.
So, yeah, if you're havingtrouble sleeping or if you have
issues with overthinkingespecially for those who are
working too much with books towrite and people to coach and
multiple projects and family andfriends and everything and you
(49:05):
have so much to think about itputs you in a state where the
sound actually makes you stopthinking.
I feel like it's helpfulbecause you just go there and
then it happens like you juststop thinking, Whereas, like, if
you try to follow a meditationroutine and you're like, okay,
I'm going to not think now for10 minutes, Do you really not
(49:28):
think for 10 minutes?
Because I used to try tomeditate while I was working in
marketing and I would end upmaking like a to-do list All the
things that I haven't finished,but it gave me the time to
organize my thoughts.
It was still effective in thatsense, but it was not meditation
(49:48):
.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
It was still effective in that sense, but it
was not meditation.
Well, that's an interestingthing because I had a recent
guest, a Zen priest His name isTose Ishinabe, and I had the
same assumption as you.
It's like you're trying toclear your mind and blah, blah,
blah right, and he's going.
No, you pick something to focuson and think about the problem
(50:13):
and you exhaust all the answers.
I was like you got to bekidding me.
He's going.
No, like you cannot not thinkright.
So you choose something tocontemplate, something that's on
your mind, and you just kind of, in some sort of open-minded,
relaxed way, you justcontemplate on that concern or
issue or could even probably bea positive thing, and then you
bring yourself back to it if youstray away.
(50:35):
And I couldn't believe it.
I was like, well, that's likethe opposite of what we're told
in the west.
The west is like, oh, you'vegot to clear your mind and as a
thought comes, you kind of letit pass and let it pass.
There's definitely differentschools on meditation.
But I I was like, wow, is thatwhat Zen is Like?
Oh, okay, that certainly wasn'twhat I was expecting.
All right, before you give me aZoom sound bath, how can people
(51:00):
reach out to you?
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I guess if you are on LinkedIn, you can connect with
me.
I post wellness tips every weekand I have my Instagram, which
is great if that's more of yourway of consuming content,
because I post real videos andshorter content that's
consumable.
And I just started TikTok too,so I'm on there as well, and now
(51:29):
I have Facebook as well.
You can find me at atzensowellnesstherapy on all of
those platforms, or you can goto my website, zenso-wellnesscom
.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
Awesome.
We will put your website andthe links to the socials in the
show notes.
So, yeah, it's been funconnecting and can you help me
with my insomnia?
And?
Speaker 1 (51:59):
my anxiety.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
Give me a soundbar, please.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, thanks for having me here, nick.
I'd be happy to give you a minisound bath, okay All right,
let's do it.
Speaker 2 (52:12):
Real joy to connect.
So what we're going to do nowis you're going to move to a
little what would you call it,your little e-bash on.
My sound tatami room and we'llend with this wonderful soundbar
.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.