September 19, 2025 • 52 mins
In this episode of The Intertwined Life podcast, I’m speaking with Elena Huggins, author of 'Untwist Me'. We discuss the challenges of mental and emotional health, and the journey of healing through trust in God. Elena shares her personal experiences with trauma, the role of therapy, and the significance of developing a personal relationship with God. She emphasizes the need for simplicity in faith and healing, and provides practical tips for listeners to navigate their struggles and find freedom.
Get all the Scripture references in this episode: www.jennyzentz.com/podcast-elena-huggins
Resources mentioned in this episode:
-Get a copy of Untwist Me: https://amzn.to/4nxonmO
- Learn more about Elena here: https://www.elenahuggins.com/
And please don’t forget to subscribe, share, rate, and review. Together we can help more women discover practical ways to apply the power of God’s Word to our everyday stuff!
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(00:00):
I think first first step is cometo Jesus, ask him to show you
what to do and and ask him to lead you to the right person to
do it. I think we often miss this step
in general. I know I did, I did and still do
sometimes where I like go to other resources world because I
like to get things done, you know, and God has been really
(00:22):
stripping me and I feel like every hard season it's always
like more and more stripping where I become much more
flexible. So I would say if you can get
into a place where you do it first, you're going to save
yourself so much heartache and many people who go to so many
routes and don't go to Jesus 1stand they prolong their recovery.
(00:48):
Welcome to the Intertwined Life podcast.
I'm your host, Jenny Zenz. I am a wife and a mom on a
mission. I've got a passion to help women
discover practical ways to applythe power of God's word to our
everyday stuff. I truly believe that our walks
with the Lord should be seamlessly intertwined with our
everyday lives. It should affect every move we
(01:09):
make and every breath we take. So come on, let's do life
together. You've got this because he's got
you. Hey friends, welcome to episode
125 of the Intertwined Life podcast.
Today I'm bringing you a great interview with an amazing woman.
Her name is Elena Huggins. She's a passionate communicator
(01:31):
and she desires to inspire and challenge and empower her
audience to make changes that they need to live better lives.
She loves Jesus and she has beenthrough some stuff and she's
willing to talk about the hard things and her experience
through trauma, PTSD, anxiety, depression are the launching off
point for her book, Untwist Me. I love that title, Untwist Me,
(01:55):
who hasn't felt that way. So we're going to be talking
about her book, but we're also going to be talking about the
power and the practical ways of approaching mental and spiritual
health as a whole. I know you're going to love this
interview. And also real quick, before we
head into it, don't forget if you go to jennyzense.com right
now, my printable 52 pack of scripture cards is available for
(02:16):
free if you use the code intertwined.
So I'll link to that in the shownotes.
Be sure you head there and get your 52 pack of printable
scripture cards that you can useall around your home in your
kids lunch or buses, whatever you want to do to encourage
yourself and grow deeper in yourknowledge of the word of God.
All right, friends, enjoy this interview with Elena Huggins.
(02:37):
Good morning, Miss Elena Huggins.
Welcome to the Intertwined Life podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.I'm excited to be here.
I'm excited to have you here. I when I saw the title of your
book Untwist me, I'm like, not only yes, but the fact that you
kind of talk the same way I do. We just make up, right?
It's like that's the only way toexplain it.
(02:57):
I just thought that was so genius.
Let me before we just jump into your book and all those things,
why don't you take a second and just share with our listeners
who you are a little bit about yourself and what brought you to
this point in your journey. Yeah, sure.
So I am an entrepreneur. So I kind of started in that
vein, love starting businesses. I'm a single mom, so I've been
(03:21):
doing that for a long, long time.
And I definitely like my background.
I've I've worked a lot in ministry and pastoral care.
You know, I worked at a Rape Crisis center.
I worked with trafficked kids, never in spending really to get
involved in the mental and emotional health space.
I actually didn't like that space at all.
(03:41):
I prefer to like, you know, encourage people to, you know,
I'd like to talk about all the other stuff.
But what I found was that I was always kind of in that world
helping people. And then of course, you know,
with my own personal journey, I definitely, you know, went
through some trauma as a child and then I got married and had a
(04:02):
really traumatic kind of marriage and divorce.
And it definitely led me down a dark path.
And I never, you know, intended to write a book or even be in
that space. But what I kept, you know,
finding was I feel like a lot ofpeople are just so overwhelmed
by the whole thing of mental andemotional health and like where
(04:22):
the church is with it, how Christians feel about it.
They're usually either one way or the other.
And so it kind of just really the book God just dropped it in
my spirit. Like I literally woke up from a
dream with the title, with all of things that I was going to
write because there's there's somany subjects that I cover in
the book and had no intention todo.
(04:43):
It felt like God dropped it in my heart.
And really it's it was 15 years in the making.
Well, 18 at this point of just what I've observed, experienced
walkthrough helped and so that'show I came to be here.
Gotcha, gotcha. I'm, I'm excited to get into
that aspect of it because I feellike there's so often this
tension in the church, you know,with the whole mind, body of
(05:05):
spirit. Well, I mean, that's a thing,
you know, it's a Trinity. There's the, you know, the
father of the Son, the Holy Spirit.
But a lot of times we feel like that's something the world or
new age he has taken off in a direction.
And so many times people within the church are leery of when we
talk about the whole person, youknow, I mean, I'm sure you found
that we'll get into that a little bit more.
(05:25):
But I'm that for my own self, that was part of my journey with
dealing with the anxiety and depression.
And it was so long, so long before I finally found a
counselor and reached out. And it has been life changing
for my family, my parenting, my marriage, everything.
So much freedom in that. And she's an amazing Christian
(05:48):
woman. But it even though I was like,
Oh yeah, I encourage people to seek counseling.
It took so long for me myself totake that step and I'm so glad I
did. But I know sitting with the
word, sitting with the Lord be like, well, I know all this
stuff. So why can't I just make this
breakthrough without airing my dirty laundry, you know, or
(06:09):
whatever? So I am excited for you to share
a little bit of that. But let's talk about your book,
Untwist Me. What's the story behind the
dream or whatever? Like you shared a lot of it, but
where did that? Where'd that come from?
I know you talk about a little bit of your journey.
You can share as much of your story or as little of your of
your story as you'd like to. Yeah, I mean, I'm a, I'm an open
(06:30):
book, so I I don't mind sharing any of it, but but yeah, it came
from the dream. And really it was in a season
where like I was running a business and it was growing and
then I ended up having a car accident where I couldn't
physically work. Like I was pretty much bedridden
for months. And so I was like, you know, and
(06:53):
so funny, like I at that point with my walk with the Lord, I've
kind of learned to like take difficulty and strides and I'm
like, OK, God, what do you want in this season?
It came out of a fast. And then I had this dream and I
was like, no, I don't want to write this book.
I think it was because so anybody who's struggled with
mental and emotional health, especially when you have done
(07:16):
the work and kind of are on the other side of it, like nobody
wants to talk about that. You know, I always question
people who really talk all abouttheir like traumas all the time.
And I'm like, who wants to talk about that?
I didn't want to talk about it. And so I think that was
definitely a factor of like, man, if I'm going to open this
door, like I got to go into my own story and I wrestled with it
(07:39):
for a while, but I felt so convicted to do it that I did.
I probably wrote it in a span oftwo months.
It was really quick, but it had been, you know, like I said, 15
years in the OR 18 years in the making where I've taken so much
of my research and all the things that I've observed.
(08:00):
And I really what I have done isI've taken the mental, the
scientific and biblical truths and I've, I've collaborated them
and combined them because a lot of things that science proves or
that studies show, you can find a lot in Scripture.
(08:21):
Huge connection. And most people don't tackle
that connection. They feel like they have to be
in one lane or the other. So I really wrote it for the
person who struggles with mentaland emotional health, but also
if somebody is like knows someone who struggles or is in
pastoral care, that they would know how to help a person
because they really take all this stuff.
(08:42):
And I simplify it because I think the way our culture does
it is we complicate everything all the time.
And if we don't, we don't see freedom because everything is so
complicated. And So what I've done is I've
just simplified it because if it's simple, that means I can do
something about it. If it's complicated, then I
don't understand it, so therefore I can do nothing about
it. Yeah, yeah.
(09:04):
So talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
I know that you talk about the fact that you've simplified
healing from trauma. That sounds like a really tall
order, but it sounds great because trauma is such a big,
you know, big word. It's a big thing.
And it's a hard place to start from and sometimes to even admit
you've had and see what does classify as trauma?
People don't always, you know, know those classifications as
(09:25):
well. But can you break down a little
bit for us how you how you simplify that, how you identify
it? And what are some of those
practical steps to help people who aren't in the science world,
you know, or in the mental health areas to identify with
their own things? And how did we begin?
What are those simple steps? Yeah, so I think first is
(09:47):
identifying what trauma is, because I do believe we're in a
culture in a day where we glamorize victimization, we call
everything trauma when some things are just not.
And I and I definitely ran into that.
So when I worked with like the Rape Crisis center, I remember
and it was not a Christian, you know, place, but they pretty
(10:10):
much identified. If it feels like a trauma to
you, then it is trauma. And I really hate that because
for people who have gone throughtrauma, when you label
everything as trauma, you minimize real trauma.
So I worked with traffic kids. So for me, someone saying that
someone hit on me and, you know,did a cat call her a whistle?
(10:30):
You know, that's trauma. And I'm like working with a
trafficked child and I'm like, Oh no, those are not two in the
same label. Everything as that we minimize
when it really is that. So that's good.
So I think the first identification of trauma is it's
it basically is when you're in asituation, something is
(10:51):
happening to you or you're a witness of something that is so
traumatizing that your brain can't even process what's
happening. So it's actually a physical
response. It's like a braining.
So what happens is that it it like arrests you in that moment.
And sometimes people kind of stay there and they call that
(11:12):
Arrested Development. But what happens is something
locks up in you. And then there's, it's almost
like you always have this heaviness in your life.
And so you're reactive to things.
You struggle to process things and you don't really know where
it's coming from. Sometimes you do know, but
sometimes you don't. And so I, I'm really a huge
believer of not digging. I know a lot of times, and this
(11:36):
may not be a popular opinion, but yeah, a lot of times in
counseling, they're like, let's go back to your childhood.
And there is a time and place for that.
But what I really believe, especially as Christians, I
believe when it's time, the HolySpirit starts bringing stuff up
to the surface. You start remembering it's, it
starts becoming really heavy. And that means you're you're
(11:57):
ready to deal with it. Because sometimes we can go
digging and we're not ready to process, we're not ready to
heal. And all it does is it makes us
deepen and go further into the mess that we're trying to sort
through. So yeah.
Interesting. Yeah, you're right.
I mean, it, it, it is. There's different schools of
thought on all of that. And I like that.
(12:19):
I don't know, I think every one way doesn't work for every
single person, you know? And for some people, maybe
that's where they are or they need to dig.
But then like you're saying, some people maybe it's going to
extra traumatize, you know, until they're ready for pulling
that up. I'm definitely a fan of like
probing. Let let's start talking.
But there's people who who keep digging and it's like, if it's
(12:40):
not ready, it doesn't come up and then you dig yourself a
hole. Like I'm, I watched people in in
therapy. I've watched that happen to them
where then they just feel like almost like paralyzed by Oh my
gosh, I forgot about that or didn't realize that.
And then they, you know what I mean?
So have to measure things, you know, correctly.
(13:02):
And then also I think there's like that, there's like a
balance. So with therapy, I'm a huge fan
of it, believe in it, of course,like you and I definitely did my
therapy, you know, for years anddid the inner work.
But I do believe there is a timewhere once and, and to be
honest, therapy is God's idea. The Bible says in a multitude of
(13:24):
counsel, there is wisdom. It says, you know, bear your
burdens with one another. It says confess your sins to one
another so you can be healed. That's, you know, sins committed
against you or that you committed because those things
when you, as you talk about them, you heal and you process
and you need to do that for as long as you need to do it.
But then there's the point in everybody's journey where you
(13:47):
have to divorce that thing. Because what I've noticed in the
therapy world, and, and there's amazing therapists, and maybe
I'm even speaking more in the context of not Christian
therapists, but there's a lot oftherapists who almost make the
situation worse. So if you really peel back all
the layers and you think about it, you go to your therapist
(14:09):
office, you talk about your trauma.
You know, often they'll write you a prescription.
You know, you kind of do the whole thing.
And then you come the next week and we talk about it again, and
then the next week and then before you know it, you've been
doing this for 10 years. So every time we talk about our
past or our trauma or our pain, we resurrect it, we relive it,
(14:30):
we re feel it. And if you know anything about
mind, body, soul connection, your subconscious doesn't know
if it's happening again real time or it's your imagining.
So when you understand that dynamic, you're reliving this
trauma, is it a wonder that you have people sitting in therapy
for a decade or more dealing with the same issue and they
(14:54):
will never seem to get past it? And of process, figure out the
dynamics, which is wonderful with a counselor, understanding
how you're responding, the wounds, all the things, do the
work, but then you've done it. There's a point where you have
to draw a hard line and you got to divorce yourself from it.
Otherwise, that's going to be your MO.
(15:16):
That's going to be who you are. It's yes, yes, I love what
you're saying because, you know,my therapist has often said,
hey, you know, I want to work myself out of a job, you know,
and some just wanted, let's justkeep in there, you know?
Yeah. But her the the goal is we talk
about things, we identify the source of this, of the trauma of
the struggle. But then, OK, what is our self
(15:38):
talk? What is our next step?
How do we therapize ourselves, you know, And so let me give you
tools to be healthy and how to handle, how to take those
thoughts captive, you know, as the Scripture says.
And so I love that. I think that is amazing.
And I like what you're saying. Can you give people a little bit
of, I don't know, some guidelines if people are looking
(16:01):
for a counselor, a therapist forthe first time and they don't
know what to look for, where to even start?
Are there certain things you'd say, hey, look, look for this,
avoid this, you know, does that make sense?
Yes. So first of all, I, I don't
believe that you need to go to acounselor.
I think some people in your lifecould be a friend.
I think the main thing is go to someone who reveres the
(16:25):
Scripture, not calls themselves Christians, but then is an open
door for everything because the counselor you're going to get
from that person is going to be very different.
So you if you hold like for me as a Christian, the Bible is the
highest esteem. So if, if something goes against
the scriptures, I don't want to,you know, play with that.
So I think definitely going to aChristian person, if it depends,
(16:49):
I think also on the level of trauma that you have, I think if
you had some extreme trauma, youwant to go to somebody who
understands that trauma, who's worked in that space before.
If you feel like you cannot finda good Christian counselor, then
I would recommend maybe going toa trauma specialist to
understand and then really getting deeper counsel from
(17:10):
somebody godly because the goal is to understand and then allow
the Lord into that space so you can be free, not just to heal
and cope, which is often what therapy does.
It puts a Band-Aid and you just live in the land of coping and
management, the way the Lord loves to heal people as he to
set them free and free indeed. And so I definitely think that
(17:33):
it doesn't have to be a licensedperson.
It's got to be somebody that youtrust that you like know their
lives, you watch their lives andthat you feel like they could
really help you. I think if it's a it's a deeper
trauma, go to specialist. And then I think also pray and
seek the Lord because I think there is a point where God's
(17:54):
going to kind of show you like, OK, whatever that person came
into your life to do, they've they've helped you.
I mean, it's not like a journey that you have to be on for a
decade. Maybe for some people it's going
to be an off and on decade. Like I don't believe in, you
know what, one size doesn't fit all for everybody.
Eventually, you know, there willbe a turning point.
(18:15):
And I think you just got to really walk with God when it
comes to that, because sometimesa person can take you only so
far, and then you either go to somebody else or you just lock
up in a secret place and let Goddeliver you.
Like, there's definitely a lot of space for the supernatural
component of what God does in a person and how he heals them.
(18:35):
Yeah, well, I think, you know, with everything in our lives,
the only way to truly know is tokeep developing your own
personal walk with the Lord. Because I can tell you what I'm
kind of feeling and thinking and, you know, and give you some
wisdom that God showed me in a similar situation and all of
that. But at some point you cannot
(18:58):
tell, like we cannot tell personexactly what they're right.
Next step is the Holy Spirit is going to lead some people to
counselor some people to a scripture that's going to break
it off of, you know what I mean?Our path is different, but
without developing our own personal walk with the Lord
just, and that just means showing up, just spending time
(19:21):
regularly in the word and takingtime to pray and then actually
kind of like, listen, you know, don't just share everything and
run away, but take time to be still.
You know, we can't give you exact steps, but God can.
But we have to be still in that relationship so that when he
nudges and when he brings things, we notice them because
he's always at work in our lives.
(19:41):
But if we're not paying attention to him regularly, we
may not notice that. And so each journey, each
person's path is different, you know, depending on how God wants
to work in their lives and who he puts in their lives.
But also, like you said, we haveto be like praying practically,
you know, God if you want me. To have another person on this
(20:02):
healing journey with me, bring that person into my life, bring
them up in my mind, you know, create those relationships and
those opportunities because he will.
We'd have to be noticing, you know, I keep doing this.
I don't know what this is, but Ithink.
If you seek, you'll find. So if you're speaking and you're
not finding, start knocking thenthe door.
But you know what I mean. It's like there's ask seeking
(20:25):
and start knocking. So if you're searching, you'll
find and that is the 100% the, the truth.
And I, and I think, you know, like to be honest, like even for
myself, like I didn't believe God could actually help me.
Like, so I, my journey was such that like I got radically saved
at 18. I didn't even realize like
(20:47):
trauma until I was in college. And then I ended up seeing a
therapist for the first time in college and kind of dealing with
some, some I was like a victim of essay and you know, and then
when. But for me, I grew up in like a
reformed Russian Orthodox. Can you tell SAA victim of SA?
Yeah. Sexual abuse and so but so I had
(21:09):
that baggage. But then on top of that, like I
grew up in this staunch kind of reformed Orthodox, I was
becoming Protestant Church. So when I got saved, I became a
problem for that church and I was evangelizing ended up they
were like God is not happy with what you're doing.
So then I was like, Oh my gosh, this Christian thing is so hard
(21:30):
because I like literally read the scriptures, read about
Jesus, met him on the stairs andI didn't have like a grid for
sinner's prayer. I just said if this is Jesus, I
want this, you know, Amen. Long story short, went to Bible
college, started serving Jesus radically met my ex-husband on
the worship team. You know, we dated for about,
(21:51):
you know, almost two years. We got married, found out he had
this whole hidden world. Yeah, there's massive addiction,
You know, all these psychological issues put me and
my kids through a lot of trauma during our relationship.
And then I found myself divorcedand just angry with God, raging
(22:13):
and angry. And then here I was.
My mind was such a mess. Like, I felt like all of, like I
just. I remember like I wanted to die
all the time, like I just was inthe, you know, rock bottom.
And I was like, God, how could you allow this to happen?
I served you. And so that hardened my heart.
(22:35):
And it's an interesting thing when we have pain and
disappointment, the natural response is to embrace the
disappointment and to harden your heart against God.
But the healing response is softening your heart, your heart
towards God and hardening to thedisappointment, to the
expectations that we're not mad or whatever it is.
(22:58):
And so I ended up seeking gurus.I did all the mental work.
I went and did new age practicesbecause I, I went to therapy
because I really felt like, you know, God couldn't help me.
And I was like, no, I already did the Christian thing and look
where I am. Yes.
(23:18):
And I, you know, and I have, I had PTSD and anxiety,
depression, I had panic attacks all the time and I didn't sleep
for like 10 months. And it was just, I just was in
hell. And anyway, and what I found is
like I, I did get healed throughall these practices, right?
And I felt like, OK, I'm, I'm pretty healthy, but I was
(23:41):
managing, I was trolling and I felt like I could, I could go
off the deep end at any point. And then what I didn't realize
is I finally did a fast. I fasted for 21 days.
I prayed. And I, and I want to insert this
because I think sometimes when with the mental and mental
health space, we do the practical things and I'm a fan
(24:02):
of all of that, but there has tobe room where you allow the
spirit of the living God to encounter you.
I and we don't talk about fasting.
We don't talk about any of thosethings.
And I fasted, I prayed, and thenon the 21st day, the presence of
God, like I was praying and worshiping and the presence of
(24:24):
God came into my living room andit was tangible and it was
weighty. And I just remember like, you
know, just weeping, like, and, and all this heaviness that I
was holding, yeah, is lifted andI, I was set free at that
moment. And So what my journey from that
(24:45):
point was in my healing. So like you have to process.
Process is ugly. And when God, a lot of things
God can do supernaturally, he can reveal something to you.
And I found that a lot in my healing journey, like he would
drop a revelation of this pattern began at this point.
And you've been doing this for 10 years.
And This is why you're stuck like in two seconds, God would
(25:07):
reveal something that would havetaken me 10 years in therapy to
figure out. So God really loves to do that
in your life. And then some things he wants
you to process them. And we often don't, we don't
like to we we talk about doing the inner work, but really that
is like a wilderness suffering season.
(25:28):
And for anybody who's in the thick of mental and emotional
struggle, think the first thing is you're going to hate it for a
while. You're going to hate healing.
You're going to everything in you is going to want to go back
to old patterns, old ways, old people, old everything, because
so much more comfortable there. We know that space well.
And it's like, I think we don't often set people up even in
(25:51):
therapy. We're like, yeah, you know, we,
we talk about certain things and, and in the Christian world,
we make it sound beautiful, like, Oh yeah, Jesus is going to
come and save you. But the reality is, is like the
first thing you do when you become a Christian, you have
this revelation, you have this moment, and then you go into
suffering, into wilderness, intodesert.
You know, Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days before he
(26:13):
ever did a thing. And we don't often address that.
Without wilderness, freedom can never come.
Because what happens in wilderness when you're like
struggling so much, if you allowyour heart to soften in
humility, you seek the Lord. Like I remember, like I went to
Bible class, so I knew theology and I had a degree in all this
(26:35):
stuff and I had to come to God and be like God.
I know nothing teach me, I am nothing, I have nothing.
And like it was, I had to almostundo everything I knew about
God, how he worked, what he did and come to him openly and then
allow myself into that sufferingplace.
(26:56):
And then the beautiful thing in that journey is like there are
things God will bring you through a counselor, you'll see
something. But there's some things God just
wants to take it off of you where you don't have to battle
to have that victory, where thispattern of behavior, he wants to
free you from it. And then there's other things he
wants to teach you how to walk in freedom, where it's a
process. So you miss that.
(27:18):
We're like, it's you want to be healed, yay.
And you're like, no, you're going to hate it.
Just prepare that I hate it. Just prepare that you're going
to want to give up. You know, I mean, I raged with
God a lot like, and I didn't know at the time.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I said alot of four letter words to God.
I was so mad and and, but I didn't realize that I was
(27:42):
actually involving him in my pain.
Because in the Christian world, we love to compartmentalize and
separate. Yes.
Like that's not what he wants. He wants, he wants you to
understand how he wired you and because he wants to heal the
full you mind, body, soul, spirit.
And so we can kind of tack into the mind, body, soul, spirit
thing. But the whole you, all of you,
(28:04):
you're going to hate it. It's like be prepared for that,
but it's good on the other side.There is victory on the other
side. There is change on the other
side. Yeah.
Oh, that's so good. That's so good.
And it's right. I just often one of the in the
middle of a hard time for me, one of the thoughts that the
Lord laid on my heart was don't let it be in vain.
(28:25):
You know, I can I can go throughthis hard time and shove it over
there or curl up in a corner andlick my wounds and keep it to
myself. Or I can say, God, here, here
are these broken pieces. Here is this hurt.
Here is this mess. If if you can use this somehow
take it. And then our lives, even our
trauma has so much purpose and so much power when we just give
(28:48):
those broken pieces back to him and let him enter that space.
He wants to meet us right where we are.
And like you're saying, the way you talk when you, when you were
angry and you were frustrated. I mean, good grief, if we're in
the Bible, look at David, some of the things he said to the
Lord and we have to know. I always tell people, tell God
exactly how you feel. He already knows, you know, if
we come to him and we're like, Oh, praise you, Jesus.
(29:10):
And I'm worshiping. And then I go about my life and
I'm stewing and spinning in my anger and my frustration and my
hurt and my doubts and my questions.
And I'm not inviting God into that space where he can actually
do some work, you know, So I, I love that.
And everything you said there isjust beautiful.
(29:30):
Let's talk about reaching out for help and finding the right
combination of like the clinicaland the spiritual, because talk
about the mind, body, spirit connection.
And you can go however you want there because a lot of times,
and let me just ask you, you know, why does Christian culture
sometimes resist the whole person healing that mind, body,
(29:51):
spirit, emotions? How does the wholeness lead to a
more authentic, healthy church? Because I know you mentioned
that, but how does approaching healing from a whole person
perspective lead to a healthier Christian in general and a more
authentic life? Yeah, that's the great question.
(30:11):
I believe the biggest problem isthat we do not read the
Scriptures. I think view this like the
culture views it. The church does things often how
the culture does it. So with having that said, why we
don't embrace full mind by soul spirit is because the world
(30:34):
doesn't. You go to the doctor, they will
treat the physical problem. They don't talk about lifestyle,
they don't talk about food, theydon't talk about mental
emotional dynamics. We just treat the physical
problem. You go to the therapist, they're
going to give you something for the mental problem.
They don't talk about your emotions.
What leads you to this thinking,what you went through, what kind
(30:56):
of food you're eating? We, we separate them.
So the church, instead of going into scripture and adapting the
Kingdom way, we've adapted the world's way.
And we do this in a lot of ways,not just in this space, but we
do it overall. And so I think that's why for
me, God, God kind of was openingstuff up and just showing me
(31:19):
like you have to unlearn everything you thought you knew.
So when I I grew from a God who wanted to send me to hell or as
a teenager, I was like, just send me there.
Let's go. I'm done trying to make you
happy. That was my God.
It was very sin. Hell, you know, pay penance, do
all the things to then Western Christianity that was like
(31:41):
follow Jesus and he's going to make your dreams come true.
You, you're going to sow what you reap.
And then I find found myself in a theological crisis where all I
sowed was good, I did everythingright.
I followed Jesus and I was in the pit of hell.
And so that was really messing me up.
And then so in my Christian journey, I realized I don't, I
(32:04):
need to know Old Testament, New Testament God.
So we have this idea that when I'm in crisis, I go to the
scripture and I get a scripture verse and that's going to help
me and I'm going to put it on mywall and Facebook it and do all
the things and and God is supposed to speak to me.
But actually the scripture, yes,God speaks to you, but that's
not what it's designed for. You read the scriptures to know
(32:26):
the Lord to know how he operates, how he works, how he
moves. So when you're situation, you're
not searching for the Scripture,you know the nature of God, you
know the character of God. He does allow suffering because
he's doing something deeper because he did this with the
Israelites or you know, when, when this happened, that
(32:48):
happened, you Start learning hisnature.
And so a lot of times people go to the Bible in the wrong
context and really you fill and you fill and you fill.
Not for crisis, not for when youneed God desperately, you feel.
So when you are in crisis, what comes out of you is life.
Amen. Amen.
(33:09):
So I know the scripture, I'm like, no, that's not my
diagnosis. I'm I'm going to do what I know
to do to, to be better, but I'm not going to embrace the
sickness. And I think what we often do is
we just embrace, we take, we don't know the scripture.
So if the doctor says, hey, you have anxiety, here's medication.
We're like, OK, I have anxiety, I have medication.
(33:29):
That's it. We don't question things.
We don't take it through the filter of scripture to be like,
OK, I hear what this doctor is saying.
God, what do you think of this? I think so often in our
recovery, if we just waited on God instead of rushing to do do
something or make a decision or embrace the diagnosis, we would
(33:51):
actually find a path forward instead of walking on a path and
then often paying a price in that path.
And so I think as a church, we've embraced culture's way.
So we're getting culture results.
If you do what the world does, you get what the world has, you
know, So I, I think the more we start reading Scripture, we
understand. Like for me, it was like I had
(34:15):
heard certain things like from gurus and from people that you
know, and then I would read scripture and I remember one
time God speaking, I was like listening to this guru and this
is when I was even wasn't even walking with him.
I was mad at that time and he said something and because I had
read scripture in the past, I heard the Lord just feel like I
said that first. They stole that from me.
(34:38):
They just have a different language.
Do it, you know, And it's like when you start reading
scripture, you're like, Oh my goodness, like even the earth,
like with the Sabbath, for example, like the the Sabbath
was put in place not for the times where you're like, I need
a vacation. I'm dying.
It was to prevent you from needing a vacation if you're
(35:00):
with it. And then even the Earth took a
sabbatical after seven years. And it's like, if we only only
followed those principles, like we would see massive change.
Like it, it like a huge, it's, it's been so interesting to be
like, oh, I see. So and even like scientifically
you observe. So if your gut is not healthy,
(35:24):
it actually feeds anxiety and depression.
And though it's a physical problem, it's affected mind, you
know, and it's like, and even like stress and anxiety creates
tumors in the body that's producing cancer.
Yeah. And so it's like, just pay
attention to how God created your body.
That's why he says think on things that are noble, true,
(35:47):
pure, good, because your thoughts, they start dictating
everything else. So if we actually read
scriptures, we wouldn't separate.
Is that the big thing you know? Yes.
Oh, that's so good and it's so true.
And I love what you're saying. It's it's so true that the
science is constantly proving scripture.
You know, there's so much that'slike, oh, yeah.
(36:08):
Well, my thoughts affect my body.
Yeah. The scripture told us that,
like, worry was like rottenness to our bones.
He wasn't kidding, you know, I mean, they know laughter is good
medicine because our physical bodies actually experienced
healing when we have joy, you know, I mean, there's so much
that is right there, even down to, like you're saying, how to
make the earth produce. Well, you know, I mean, it's
(36:31):
amazing. And so I I love that because
you're 100% right. And I absolutely love what
you're saying. We should go to the Scripture
seeking to know God, not seekingto find out what to do.
Now, in knowing God, in knowing his ways, the Holy Spirit will
often make clear to us the path that we should walk in.
And that is in Scripture as well.
But it's when we delight ourselves in the Lord, it's when
(36:53):
we seek first his Kingdom that all these other things are
added. And so Jen Wilkin, she's does a
lot of Bible teaching and she talks a lot about that, like we
should go to Scripture learning about our God.
And then that transforms how we view everything around us and
gives us, like you're saying, the confidence that when we bump
up against something, well, yes,this is a hard place.
(37:15):
But if we think about God, I know what you did with the
children of Israel, and I know when they were between the army
and the ocean, you just parted the seas.
I know that you can do anything.So I find myself in this spot.
But I know who you are and I know your character.
I know what you've done. So I can stand firm even in the
midst of this really hard place.Not because I know the Bible and
(37:35):
because I quote Scripture. Everything's going to be OK.
You know, Jesus himself said in this world you will have
trouble, but take heart. I've overcome it, you know.
And so it's where is our faith? What are we going when we go to
Scripture, when we go to counseling, when we go in
prayer, are we just seeking whatcan fix me or am I seeking him
first? And in doing that, the dominoes,
(37:58):
you know, start to fall and goodstuff, good stuff.
I was just going to add to that.I think in theory for many
people, because I remember people talking about that and I
felt like I don't really want toread Scripture.
I'm I'm busy. And I would just say like, it
sounds beautiful and there's truth in it.
And I would just say, like, The thing is, ask God to give you a
(38:22):
hunger for scripture, You know, ask them to give you the hunger
because we're, we're sinful beings.
It's like anytime we're in a difficulty or in a crisis, we
never want to do what's good forus.
That's our nature. You know what I mean?
God to give you hunger. And I would always tell people
like, just like when you're reading scripture, you don't
(38:42):
have to have like an hour, like whatever time you have just fill
because the more you eat, the more we're hungry.
So in the world it's like you, you eat and then you're full.
But in the spiritual world, the more you eat, the more hungry
you become. And I would definitely ask you
if you're not hungry. Look at that.
(39:04):
Because when you're not hungry and the natural, that means
you're sick. If you're not hungry for the
Lord, then you're sick. There's something wrong, so
start diving into that and just say, God, I'm not hungry.
Like it was a struggle for me toI never understood being in the
secret place or, you know, theseare things that I didn't grow up
(39:25):
with. The Lord was kind of showing me
and I would then would God, you know, obviously locked into my
secret place and spent time withGod.
But in the beginning I didn't want to do it.
I was like, I'm tired. I don't, you know, you know, I
don't want to stay here with God.
You know, I felt like that, but then I just, I just kept at it.
If I'd skip a day or two or three, then I would just get
back in the word 5 minutes. I did it for 5 minutes.
(39:47):
If I had 10, I did it for 10. Like, you know, just just to
encourage anybody who, who's listening, who's like, yeah,
that sounds beautiful. But I, I feel bored with it.
That's an honest thing. You bored when you don't dive
in. And it's one of those things,
ask the Lord to give you a hunger, hunger and just start a
little bit every day. Start talking to him more, start
consulting with him. Because if you never consult
(40:09):
with the Lord, you're not going to have counsel from Him.
So start like a little bit out of time, catch yourself, be
like, OK, I OK, I have 5 minutes.
OK, listen to it when you're driving to work, like get the
word in you because it's going to produce hunger and it will
produce results. Amen.
So good. So, so true.
So for the person listening right now.
(40:29):
And she just feels like she's drowning in her pain, in her
struggle, in her depression, whatever it is in this space, in
just life in general. What's our first step?
Where, where does someone begin if they come to you and they're
like, I'm overwhelmed and I'm hurting or I'm angry?
Like step #1 simplify that firststep.
(40:51):
I think first the first step is come to Jesus.
Come to Jesus because especiallyif you have a well, like come to
God and ask him to show you whatto do and, and ask him to lead
you to the right person to do it.
If you're like needing counseling.
(41:13):
I think, I think we often miss this step in general.
I know I did. I did and still do sometimes
where I like go to other resources because I like to get
things done, you know, and God has been like really like
stripping me. And I feel like every hard
season, it's always like more and more stripping where I
become much more flexible. So I would say the first thing
(41:35):
is if you can, if you can get into a place where you do it
first, you're going to save yourself so much heartache.
And many people who go to so many routes and don't go to
Jesus 1st and they prolong theirrecovery.
They prolong the feeling when God wants to.
God is efficient. He knows when He's got to take
(41:56):
you deeper. He knows how deep to go because
He always heals. You heal in layers.
You don't heal. Like don't think about all of
the problems that you have first.
Take all of that's in your mind,release it to the Lord, and then
take a step back and just say, what is one thing I can do?
Just one thing. Just tackle one thing.
(42:19):
The most imminent thing that youfeel like you're struggling, try
to try to try to tackle that. So if it's like stuff that's
coming up or if it's a situationthat's toxic, if you can take
that and just bring it down to the bare bones of what it is,
it'll help you navigate that. One thing that you can do that's
realistic because you're not going to be able to do it all at
(42:40):
once. Just the just one thing, one
thing that you can do. Nice.
Yeah, Yeah, I like that. Just it's more realistic when
you can bring it down to that one thing.
And and Speaking of that, I knowthat a lot of what I've read
about you is you like to offer uncomplicated life hacks for
mental and emotional liberation.Do you have like a top one or
two that really is like your go to uncomplicated life hack for
(43:03):
this freedom? I love that.
There is probably 2 that I feel like helped me the most.
One was when I was in my pit. So I realized that I, I couldn't
sleep and I had this whole issue, but I realized with
myself that I would think about all of the horrible things that
had happened to me for 35 years and that's why I couldn't sleep,
(43:26):
right? So I did that for many, many
years and then I was like, well,no wonder I don't sleep.
So when I was tackling that, what I learned is in my pain, I
would sit with it for 5 minutes.So there's times where we don't
want to get up and it's like feel all of those feelings.
There's nothing wrong. People in the Christian world
(43:46):
feel like, oh, you can't feel negative or there's like the
reverse where is like, I'm just going to be in bed all day.
So I would recommend like what Idid was I just sat with it and I
would give myself time limits. Today I'm just going to sit in
bed. I'm going to feel sorry for
myself. I'm going to pity myself for 5
minutes or 5 minutes and then I'm going to get up and be
(44:07):
productive. And so that's how I started
navigating that part. I would just give myself small
fractions of time where I would feel what I needed to feel.
I would process in that moment and then I'd get up and do
something productive. And then that was, that was so
huge as I transitioned from my pit into recovery.
And then the second thing that Idid is I, I would create a list
(44:29):
of when I was feeling my absolute best, what was I doing?
So I made a list of like. I've done that too.
I love that. So I would like exercise.
I was at peace with my relationships.
I was eating well and eating clean.
I felt productive in my business.
I was spending time with the Lords.
I would make this detailed list and then when I was in my pit,
(44:52):
go back to that list and be like, what am I doing wrong?
Why do I feel this way? I hate how I feel.
I don't. I don't know why that makes me
cry, but I love that because I've done that and I've said
that to a few people, but I've never heard anyone else say it
like that. But make your list of when you
feel your best. What are those things?
And sometimes one of my rules isif I think, should I wash my
(45:15):
hair today? Just do it Like I feel better
when I am fully clean. You know, like things like that,
right? She's like, those are like, you
know, first. Yeah, I, I mean, I went like
that detail too. And then and it was so helpful,
you know, obviously. And anything you do with time
becomes more like second nature.But in the beginning, man, I
(45:36):
pulled out that list all the time.
I'm like, oh, I haven't been sleeping.
This is why I feel like crazy. This is why I'm depressed or I'm
overworked or I haven't spent time with my kids, whatever it
is. And so that really helped me
kind of get back on track as I was recovering.
And so like for me, like those two things were just super
helpful when I was in my pit andthen when I was in the healing
(45:59):
process. I love that.
I love that. I love that everybody got your
homework. Make your list.
I mean, one of those is like making my bed, you know, if I
get up and my bed is made, like I can think clearer, you know,
clean off your kitchen counters,whatever it is.
I mean, there's so many things that lighten our our mood and
our feeling and help us move outof that pit.
I love that. I love that it can be so
practical. All right, so I end every
(46:20):
episode with a few same questions that I give to
everyone. And I would love to know from
you, do you have a life verse orverse that is especially
bringing you life right now? There is one and it's and I
forget where it is 'cause I havelike 4, but there is one that
says this is the year of my redemption.
(46:41):
That's been my verse for this year 'cause I would say that the
last 10 years have been a lot ofprice paid, a lot of difficulty,
one after the other with no breaks.
So, so I've just been really camping on like, this is my year
of redemption. God, I'm just gonna surrender
that. And then there's one more I'll
(47:03):
share in Job. And it says there's no plan of
the Lord that can be thwarted. And so I've stood on that to be
like, you know, even if everything looks like it's going
down, like if your plan is there, nothing can change that.
And so those have been the kind of the two that I've danced
between. I love those, I love those.
How old are your girls? My girls they are 11 and 12 so
(47:28):
my clothes just taking all my stuff.
My my first born is taller than me.
Yep, the second. One is catching up quick, but
yeah, it's it's a really fun age.
I'm really. No, that's awesome.
My daughter's 16, got her license a few weeks ago.
And yeah, it's awesome. She's she's amazing.
But she is five inches taller than me and has been since she
(47:49):
was about 11. And my son is 13 and he just
passed me in height about two weeks ago, just like, you know,
so he's about to hit his thing, you know, but it's so funny just
watching our kids grow, you know, and and those life sages.
But I know what you mean. But here's what's really fun.
We had this season where my daughter was taking my clothes.
But now when she outgrows thingsor gets tired of things, I go
(48:11):
through them and take her hand me down.
I love that. So that's.
What I have to look forward? To that, yeah, it is fun.
It is fun. All right, So what is 1 simple
practical tip? I feel like you've already given
so many of these that you would share with the listener about
intertwining our walks of the Lord and our everyday life.
I think my biggest tip would be keep it simple.
(48:36):
Yeah, I think what I have noticed over the years and all
the people I've helped, those who recover well, those who do
lifeboat marriage, well, they keep it simple.
The moment you complicate it, the more problems you start
having. And I think that's what we see a
lot in our world. There's so many problems because
(48:56):
we complicate way too much. So when it comes to your walk
with the Lord, keep it simple. The gospel is simple, like the
moment you complicate Jesus and you, the moment you, I mean
Jesus was deep, but he was. So the moment you complicate
that, it starts getting muddied and messy instead of keeping to
the purity of what it is. The same for mental emotional
(49:18):
health. Keep it simple.
Like try to simplify, even if itfeels layered, if we can as much
as possible, simplify that situation or your marriage,
whatever conflicts you're having, get rid of all the noise
around it and get simple. I'm not, I'm not communicating
whatever, you know what I mean? If we simplify it, we're going
(49:41):
to find that we can in and we'llbe more aware of ourselves
because, you know, having emotional intelligence is very
important. The more simpler you become, you
start feeling when things are off and you can connecting
different dots and being like, oh, OK, let me, let me go, let
me bring this down. I'm not spending enough time
with my kids. That's what they're acting out
(50:02):
or whatever your dynamic is. It's simple.
Simplify, simplify, simplify. There's from that.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right, so where do we send
people to get your book? It's on Amazon, you can go
either to Amazon. It's available, you know,
paperback, hard copy, copy, Kindle and Audible.
(50:24):
So if you just want to let them that as well.
So you can either go through Amazon.
Also my website elenahuggins.com, my social
media link links are up there aswell.
Whatever is good for you. All right, great.
That was my last question is where can people find you?
So if they head to elenahuggins.com, they can find
your social links and all the good things there.
Get on your mailing list, I'm assuming, and, and all of that
(50:45):
to get all your practical and deep advice for being set free
from home of this emotional baggage we all struggle with,
right? And like I know you mentioned a
lot, you're willing to go, and that's kind of how I like to
roll. Go where no one else is willing
to go. Just talk about it, bring it
into the light. And that's what you're doing for
so many. So thank you for the work that
(51:05):
you're doing and the freedom that you're allowing the Lord to
use you to help bring into people's lives.
Thank. You so much.
You're so welcome. I'm so glad we did this.
Thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me, it
has been such a such a pleasure.There's so much you said that
I'm like, yes, yeah, it's awesome.
Kindred spirit there for sure. You're like, I know exactly what
(51:27):
you're saying. I feel the same way.
Well, you know, when you go through and you do some of the
work and you have to arrive at things the hard ways.
But I do love the fact that you said the list.
It's like, yes, that's literally.
And I've even told my kids that,you know, like sit down, make a
list of when you feel your best.And it's like you're saying,
what am I eating? What am I doing?
(51:47):
Am I, am I going for walks? Am I getting sunshine?
And you know, whatever it is so good, so good, so good, so good.
Hey friend, if you enjoyed this episode and you got some good
stuff out of it, there's a few options.
You have 1 you could click that little subscribe button.
And also, if you would review this podcast, Oh my gosh, if you
(52:10):
like what you heard, get on there.
Give it a five star review. If you didn't like what you
heard, just pretend it never happened.
OK, but if you would do a reviewfor me, just take a couple
seconds and do that. Not only would I be crazy
excited, but also, so it would just be a great way for us to
partner together, for you to help this podcast be seen by
more women out there. And you could be a part of
(52:33):
helping more women discover these practical ways to apply
God's word to just everyday stuff.
So I would love it, love it, love it if you could help me out
in one of those two ways.
I think first first step is cometo Jesus, ask him to show you
what to do and and ask him to lead you to the right person to
do it. I think we often miss this step
in general. I know I did, I did and still do
sometimes where I like go to other resources world because I
like to get things done, you know, and God has been really
(00:22):
stripping me and I feel like every hard season it's always
like more and more stripping where I become much more
flexible. So I would say if you can get
into a place where you do it first, you're going to save
yourself so much heartache and many people who go to so many
routes and don't go to Jesus 1stand they prolong their recovery.
(00:48):
Welcome to the Intertwined Life podcast.
I'm your host, Jenny Zenz. I am a wife and a mom on a
mission. I've got a passion to help women
discover practical ways to applythe power of God's word to our
everyday stuff. I truly believe that our walks
with the Lord should be seamlessly intertwined with our
everyday lives. It should affect every move we
(01:09):
make and every breath we take. So come on, let's do life
together. You've got this because he's got
you. Hey friends, welcome to episode
125 of the Intertwined Life podcast.
Today I'm bringing you a great interview with an amazing woman.
Her name is Elena Huggins. She's a passionate communicator
(01:31):
and she desires to inspire and challenge and empower her
audience to make changes that they need to live better lives.
She loves Jesus and she has beenthrough some stuff and she's
willing to talk about the hard things and her experience
through trauma, PTSD, anxiety, depression are the launching off
point for her book, Untwist Me. I love that title, Untwist Me,
(01:55):
who hasn't felt that way. So we're going to be talking
about her book, but we're also going to be talking about the
power and the practical ways of approaching mental and spiritual
health as a whole. I know you're going to love this
interview. And also real quick, before we
head into it, don't forget if you go to jennyzense.com right
now, my printable 52 pack of scripture cards is available for
(02:16):
free if you use the code intertwined.
So I'll link to that in the shownotes.
Be sure you head there and get your 52 pack of printable
scripture cards that you can useall around your home in your
kids lunch or buses, whatever you want to do to encourage
yourself and grow deeper in yourknowledge of the word of God.
All right, friends, enjoy this interview with Elena Huggins.
(02:37):
Good morning, Miss Elena Huggins.
Welcome to the Intertwined Life podcast.
Thank you so much for having me.I'm excited to be here.
I'm excited to have you here. I when I saw the title of your
book Untwist me, I'm like, not only yes, but the fact that you
kind of talk the same way I do. We just make up, right?
It's like that's the only way toexplain it.
(02:57):
I just thought that was so genius.
Let me before we just jump into your book and all those things,
why don't you take a second and just share with our listeners
who you are a little bit about yourself and what brought you to
this point in your journey. Yeah, sure.
So I am an entrepreneur. So I kind of started in that
vein, love starting businesses. I'm a single mom, so I've been
(03:21):
doing that for a long, long time.
And I definitely like my background.
I've I've worked a lot in ministry and pastoral care.
You know, I worked at a Rape Crisis center.
I worked with trafficked kids, never in spending really to get
involved in the mental and emotional health space.
I actually didn't like that space at all.
(03:41):
I prefer to like, you know, encourage people to, you know,
I'd like to talk about all the other stuff.
But what I found was that I was always kind of in that world
helping people. And then of course, you know,
with my own personal journey, I definitely, you know, went
through some trauma as a child and then I got married and had a
(04:02):
really traumatic kind of marriage and divorce.
And it definitely led me down a dark path.
And I never, you know, intended to write a book or even be in
that space. But what I kept, you know,
finding was I feel like a lot ofpeople are just so overwhelmed
by the whole thing of mental andemotional health and like where
(04:22):
the church is with it, how Christians feel about it.
They're usually either one way or the other.
And so it kind of just really the book God just dropped it in
my spirit. Like I literally woke up from a
dream with the title, with all of things that I was going to
write because there's there's somany subjects that I cover in
the book and had no intention todo.
(04:43):
It felt like God dropped it in my heart.
And really it's it was 15 years in the making.
Well, 18 at this point of just what I've observed, experienced
walkthrough helped and so that'show I came to be here.
Gotcha, gotcha. I'm, I'm excited to get into
that aspect of it because I feellike there's so often this
tension in the church, you know,with the whole mind, body of
(05:05):
spirit. Well, I mean, that's a thing,
you know, it's a Trinity. There's the, you know, the
father of the Son, the Holy Spirit.
But a lot of times we feel like that's something the world or
new age he has taken off in a direction.
And so many times people within the church are leery of when we
talk about the whole person, youknow, I mean, I'm sure you found
that we'll get into that a little bit more.
(05:25):
But I'm that for my own self, that was part of my journey with
dealing with the anxiety and depression.
And it was so long, so long before I finally found a
counselor and reached out. And it has been life changing
for my family, my parenting, my marriage, everything.
So much freedom in that. And she's an amazing Christian
(05:48):
woman. But it even though I was like,
Oh yeah, I encourage people to seek counseling.
It took so long for me myself totake that step and I'm so glad I
did. But I know sitting with the
word, sitting with the Lord be like, well, I know all this
stuff. So why can't I just make this
breakthrough without airing my dirty laundry, you know, or
(06:09):
whatever? So I am excited for you to share
a little bit of that. But let's talk about your book,
Untwist Me. What's the story behind the
dream or whatever? Like you shared a lot of it, but
where did that? Where'd that come from?
I know you talk about a little bit of your journey.
You can share as much of your story or as little of your of
your story as you'd like to. Yeah, I mean, I'm a, I'm an open
(06:30):
book, so I I don't mind sharing any of it, but but yeah, it came
from the dream. And really it was in a season
where like I was running a business and it was growing and
then I ended up having a car accident where I couldn't
physically work. Like I was pretty much bedridden
for months. And so I was like, you know, and
(06:53):
so funny, like I at that point with my walk with the Lord, I've
kind of learned to like take difficulty and strides and I'm
like, OK, God, what do you want in this season?
It came out of a fast. And then I had this dream and I
was like, no, I don't want to write this book.
I think it was because so anybody who's struggled with
mental and emotional health, especially when you have done
(07:16):
the work and kind of are on the other side of it, like nobody
wants to talk about that. You know, I always question
people who really talk all abouttheir like traumas all the time.
And I'm like, who wants to talk about that?
I didn't want to talk about it. And so I think that was
definitely a factor of like, man, if I'm going to open this
door, like I got to go into my own story and I wrestled with it
(07:39):
for a while, but I felt so convicted to do it that I did.
I probably wrote it in a span oftwo months.
It was really quick, but it had been, you know, like I said, 15
years in the OR 18 years in the making where I've taken so much
of my research and all the things that I've observed.
(08:00):
And I really what I have done isI've taken the mental, the
scientific and biblical truths and I've, I've collaborated them
and combined them because a lot of things that science proves or
that studies show, you can find a lot in Scripture.
(08:21):
Huge connection. And most people don't tackle
that connection. They feel like they have to be
in one lane or the other. So I really wrote it for the
person who struggles with mentaland emotional health, but also
if somebody is like knows someone who struggles or is in
pastoral care, that they would know how to help a person
because they really take all this stuff.
(08:42):
And I simplify it because I think the way our culture does
it is we complicate everything all the time.
And if we don't, we don't see freedom because everything is so
complicated. And So what I've done is I've
just simplified it because if it's simple, that means I can do
something about it. If it's complicated, then I
don't understand it, so therefore I can do nothing about
it. Yeah, yeah.
(09:04):
So talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
I know that you talk about the fact that you've simplified
healing from trauma. That sounds like a really tall
order, but it sounds great because trauma is such a big,
you know, big word. It's a big thing.
And it's a hard place to start from and sometimes to even admit
you've had and see what does classify as trauma?
People don't always, you know, know those classifications as
(09:25):
well. But can you break down a little
bit for us how you how you simplify that, how you identify
it? And what are some of those
practical steps to help people who aren't in the science world,
you know, or in the mental health areas to identify with
their own things? And how did we begin?
What are those simple steps? Yeah, so I think first is
(09:47):
identifying what trauma is, because I do believe we're in a
culture in a day where we glamorize victimization, we call
everything trauma when some things are just not.
And I and I definitely ran into that.
So when I worked with like the Rape Crisis center, I remember
and it was not a Christian, you know, place, but they pretty
(10:10):
much identified. If it feels like a trauma to
you, then it is trauma. And I really hate that because
for people who have gone throughtrauma, when you label
everything as trauma, you minimize real trauma.
So I worked with traffic kids. So for me, someone saying that
someone hit on me and, you know,did a cat call her a whistle?
(10:30):
You know, that's trauma. And I'm like working with a
trafficked child and I'm like, Oh no, those are not two in the
same label. Everything as that we minimize
when it really is that. So that's good.
So I think the first identification of trauma is it's
it basically is when you're in asituation, something is
(10:51):
happening to you or you're a witness of something that is so
traumatizing that your brain can't even process what's
happening. So it's actually a physical
response. It's like a braining.
So what happens is that it it like arrests you in that moment.
And sometimes people kind of stay there and they call that
(11:12):
Arrested Development. But what happens is something
locks up in you. And then there's, it's almost
like you always have this heaviness in your life.
And so you're reactive to things.
You struggle to process things and you don't really know where
it's coming from. Sometimes you do know, but
sometimes you don't. And so I, I'm really a huge
believer of not digging. I know a lot of times, and this
(11:36):
may not be a popular opinion, but yeah, a lot of times in
counseling, they're like, let's go back to your childhood.
And there is a time and place for that.
But what I really believe, especially as Christians, I
believe when it's time, the HolySpirit starts bringing stuff up
to the surface. You start remembering it's, it
starts becoming really heavy. And that means you're you're
(11:57):
ready to deal with it. Because sometimes we can go
digging and we're not ready to process, we're not ready to
heal. And all it does is it makes us
deepen and go further into the mess that we're trying to sort
through. So yeah.
Interesting. Yeah, you're right.
I mean, it, it, it is. There's different schools of
thought on all of that. And I like that.
(12:19):
I don't know, I think every one way doesn't work for every
single person, you know? And for some people, maybe
that's where they are or they need to dig.
But then like you're saying, some people maybe it's going to
extra traumatize, you know, until they're ready for pulling
that up. I'm definitely a fan of like
probing. Let let's start talking.
But there's people who who keep digging and it's like, if it's
(12:40):
not ready, it doesn't come up and then you dig yourself a
hole. Like I'm, I watched people in in
therapy. I've watched that happen to them
where then they just feel like almost like paralyzed by Oh my
gosh, I forgot about that or didn't realize that.
And then they, you know what I mean?
So have to measure things, you know, correctly.
(13:02):
And then also I think there's like that, there's like a
balance. So with therapy, I'm a huge fan
of it, believe in it, of course,like you and I definitely did my
therapy, you know, for years anddid the inner work.
But I do believe there is a timewhere once and, and to be
honest, therapy is God's idea. The Bible says in a multitude of
(13:24):
counsel, there is wisdom. It says, you know, bear your
burdens with one another. It says confess your sins to one
another so you can be healed. That's, you know, sins committed
against you or that you committed because those things
when you, as you talk about them, you heal and you process
and you need to do that for as long as you need to do it.
But then there's the point in everybody's journey where you
(13:47):
have to divorce that thing. Because what I've noticed in the
therapy world, and, and there's amazing therapists, and maybe
I'm even speaking more in the context of not Christian
therapists, but there's a lot oftherapists who almost make the
situation worse. So if you really peel back all
the layers and you think about it, you go to your therapist
(14:09):
office, you talk about your trauma.
You know, often they'll write you a prescription.
You know, you kind of do the whole thing.
And then you come the next week and we talk about it again, and
then the next week and then before you know it, you've been
doing this for 10 years. So every time we talk about our
past or our trauma or our pain, we resurrect it, we relive it,
(14:30):
we re feel it. And if you know anything about
mind, body, soul connection, your subconscious doesn't know
if it's happening again real time or it's your imagining.
So when you understand that dynamic, you're reliving this
trauma, is it a wonder that you have people sitting in therapy
for a decade or more dealing with the same issue and they
(14:54):
will never seem to get past it? And of process, figure out the
dynamics, which is wonderful with a counselor, understanding
how you're responding, the wounds, all the things, do the
work, but then you've done it. There's a point where you have
to draw a hard line and you got to divorce yourself from it.
Otherwise, that's going to be your MO.
(15:16):
That's going to be who you are. It's yes, yes, I love what
you're saying because, you know,my therapist has often said,
hey, you know, I want to work myself out of a job, you know,
and some just wanted, let's justkeep in there, you know?
Yeah. But her the the goal is we talk
about things, we identify the source of this, of the trauma of
the struggle. But then, OK, what is our self
(15:38):
talk? What is our next step?
How do we therapize ourselves, you know, And so let me give you
tools to be healthy and how to handle, how to take those
thoughts captive, you know, as the Scripture says.
And so I love that. I think that is amazing.
And I like what you're saying. Can you give people a little bit
of, I don't know, some guidelines if people are looking
(16:01):
for a counselor, a therapist forthe first time and they don't
know what to look for, where to even start?
Are there certain things you'd say, hey, look, look for this,
avoid this, you know, does that make sense?
Yes. So first of all, I, I don't
believe that you need to go to acounselor.
I think some people in your lifecould be a friend.
I think the main thing is go to someone who reveres the
(16:25):
Scripture, not calls themselves Christians, but then is an open
door for everything because the counselor you're going to get
from that person is going to be very different.
So you if you hold like for me as a Christian, the Bible is the
highest esteem. So if, if something goes against
the scriptures, I don't want to,you know, play with that.
So I think definitely going to aChristian person, if it depends,
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I think also on the level of trauma that you have, I think if
you had some extreme trauma, youwant to go to somebody who
understands that trauma, who's worked in that space before.
If you feel like you cannot finda good Christian counselor, then
I would recommend maybe going toa trauma specialist to
understand and then really getting deeper counsel from
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somebody godly because the goal is to understand and then allow
the Lord into that space so you can be free, not just to heal
and cope, which is often what therapy does.
It puts a Band-Aid and you just live in the land of coping and
management, the way the Lord loves to heal people as he to
set them free and free indeed. And so I definitely think that
(17:33):
it doesn't have to be a licensedperson.
It's got to be somebody that youtrust that you like know their
lives, you watch their lives andthat you feel like they could
really help you. I think if it's a it's a deeper
trauma, go to specialist. And then I think also pray and
seek the Lord because I think there is a point where God's
(17:54):
going to kind of show you like, OK, whatever that person came
into your life to do, they've they've helped you.
I mean, it's not like a journey that you have to be on for a
decade. Maybe for some people it's going
to be an off and on decade. Like I don't believe in, you
know what, one size doesn't fit all for everybody.
Eventually, you know, there willbe a turning point.
(18:15):
And I think you just got to really walk with God when it
comes to that, because sometimesa person can take you only so
far, and then you either go to somebody else or you just lock
up in a secret place and let Goddeliver you.
Like, there's definitely a lot of space for the supernatural
component of what God does in a person and how he heals them.
(18:35):
Yeah, well, I think, you know, with everything in our lives,
the only way to truly know is tokeep developing your own
personal walk with the Lord. Because I can tell you what I'm
kind of feeling and thinking and, you know, and give you some
wisdom that God showed me in a similar situation and all of
that. But at some point you cannot
(18:58):
tell, like we cannot tell personexactly what they're right.
Next step is the Holy Spirit is going to lead some people to
counselor some people to a scripture that's going to break
it off of, you know what I mean?Our path is different, but
without developing our own personal walk with the Lord
just, and that just means showing up, just spending time
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regularly in the word and takingtime to pray and then actually
kind of like, listen, you know, don't just share everything and
run away, but take time to be still.
You know, we can't give you exact steps, but God can.
But we have to be still in that relationship so that when he
nudges and when he brings things, we notice them because
he's always at work in our lives.
(19:41):
But if we're not paying attention to him regularly, we
may not notice that. And so each journey, each
person's path is different, you know, depending on how God wants
to work in their lives and who he puts in their lives.
But also, like you said, we haveto be like praying practically,
you know, God if you want me. To have another person on this
(20:02):
healing journey with me, bring that person into my life, bring
them up in my mind, you know, create those relationships and
those opportunities because he will.
We'd have to be noticing, you know, I keep doing this.
I don't know what this is, but Ithink.
If you seek, you'll find. So if you're speaking and you're
not finding, start knocking thenthe door.
But you know what I mean. It's like there's ask seeking
(20:25):
and start knocking. So if you're searching, you'll
find and that is the 100% the, the truth.
And I, and I think, you know, like to be honest, like even for
myself, like I didn't believe God could actually help me.
Like, so I, my journey was such that like I got radically saved
at 18. I didn't even realize like
(20:47):
trauma until I was in college. And then I ended up seeing a
therapist for the first time in college and kind of dealing with
some, some I was like a victim of essay and you know, and then
when. But for me, I grew up in like a
reformed Russian Orthodox. Can you tell SAA victim of SA?
Yeah. Sexual abuse and so but so I had
(21:09):
that baggage. But then on top of that, like I
grew up in this staunch kind of reformed Orthodox, I was
becoming Protestant Church. So when I got saved, I became a
problem for that church and I was evangelizing ended up they
were like God is not happy with what you're doing.
So then I was like, Oh my gosh, this Christian thing is so hard
(21:30):
because I like literally read the scriptures, read about
Jesus, met him on the stairs andI didn't have like a grid for
sinner's prayer. I just said if this is Jesus, I
want this, you know, Amen. Long story short, went to Bible
college, started serving Jesus radically met my ex-husband on
the worship team. You know, we dated for about,
(21:51):
you know, almost two years. We got married, found out he had
this whole hidden world. Yeah, there's massive addiction,
You know, all these psychological issues put me and
my kids through a lot of trauma during our relationship.
And then I found myself divorcedand just angry with God, raging
(22:13):
and angry. And then here I was.
My mind was such a mess. Like, I felt like all of, like I
just. I remember like I wanted to die
all the time, like I just was inthe, you know, rock bottom.
And I was like, God, how could you allow this to happen?
I served you. And so that hardened my heart.
(22:35):
And it's an interesting thing when we have pain and
disappointment, the natural response is to embrace the
disappointment and to harden your heart against God.
But the healing response is softening your heart, your heart
towards God and hardening to thedisappointment, to the
expectations that we're not mad or whatever it is.
(22:58):
And so I ended up seeking gurus.I did all the mental work.
I went and did new age practicesbecause I, I went to therapy
because I really felt like, you know, God couldn't help me.
And I was like, no, I already did the Christian thing and look
where I am. Yes.
(23:18):
And I, you know, and I have, I had PTSD and anxiety,
depression, I had panic attacks all the time and I didn't sleep
for like 10 months. And it was just, I just was in
hell. And anyway, and what I found is
like I, I did get healed throughall these practices, right?
And I felt like, OK, I'm, I'm pretty healthy, but I was
(23:41):
managing, I was trolling and I felt like I could, I could go
off the deep end at any point. And then what I didn't realize
is I finally did a fast. I fasted for 21 days.
I prayed. And I, and I want to insert this
because I think sometimes when with the mental and mental
health space, we do the practical things and I'm a fan
(24:02):
of all of that, but there has tobe room where you allow the
spirit of the living God to encounter you.
I and we don't talk about fasting.
We don't talk about any of thosethings.
And I fasted, I prayed, and thenon the 21st day, the presence of
God, like I was praying and worshiping and the presence of
(24:24):
God came into my living room andit was tangible and it was
weighty. And I just remember like, you
know, just weeping, like, and, and all this heaviness that I
was holding, yeah, is lifted andI, I was set free at that
moment. And So what my journey from that
(24:45):
point was in my healing. So like you have to process.
Process is ugly. And when God, a lot of things
God can do supernaturally, he can reveal something to you.
And I found that a lot in my healing journey, like he would
drop a revelation of this pattern began at this point.
And you've been doing this for 10 years.
And This is why you're stuck like in two seconds, God would
(25:07):
reveal something that would havetaken me 10 years in therapy to
figure out. So God really loves to do that
in your life. And then some things he wants
you to process them. And we often don't, we don't
like to we we talk about doing the inner work, but really that
is like a wilderness suffering season.
(25:28):
And for anybody who's in the thick of mental and emotional
struggle, think the first thing is you're going to hate it for a
while. You're going to hate healing.
You're going to everything in you is going to want to go back
to old patterns, old ways, old people, old everything, because
so much more comfortable there. We know that space well.
And it's like, I think we don't often set people up even in
(25:51):
therapy. We're like, yeah, you know, we,
we talk about certain things and, and in the Christian world,
we make it sound beautiful, like, Oh yeah, Jesus is going to
come and save you. But the reality is, is like the
first thing you do when you become a Christian, you have
this revelation, you have this moment, and then you go into
suffering, into wilderness, intodesert.
You know, Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days before he
(26:13):
ever did a thing. And we don't often address that.
Without wilderness, freedom can never come.
Because what happens in wilderness when you're like
struggling so much, if you allowyour heart to soften in
humility, you seek the Lord. Like I remember, like I went to
Bible class, so I knew theology and I had a degree in all this
(26:35):
stuff and I had to come to God and be like God.
I know nothing teach me, I am nothing, I have nothing.
And like it was, I had to almostundo everything I knew about
God, how he worked, what he did and come to him openly and then
allow myself into that sufferingplace.
(26:56):
And then the beautiful thing in that journey is like there are
things God will bring you through a counselor, you'll see
something. But there's some things God just
wants to take it off of you where you don't have to battle
to have that victory, where thispattern of behavior, he wants to
free you from it. And then there's other things he
wants to teach you how to walk in freedom, where it's a
process. So you miss that.
(27:18):
We're like, it's you want to be healed, yay.
And you're like, no, you're going to hate it.
Just prepare that I hate it. Just prepare that you're going
to want to give up. You know, I mean, I raged with
God a lot like, and I didn't know at the time.
I mean, I'm pretty sure I said alot of four letter words to God.
I was so mad and and, but I didn't realize that I was
(27:42):
actually involving him in my pain.
Because in the Christian world, we love to compartmentalize and
separate. Yes.
Like that's not what he wants. He wants, he wants you to
understand how he wired you and because he wants to heal the
full you mind, body, soul, spirit.
And so we can kind of tack into the mind, body, soul, spirit
thing. But the whole you, all of you,
(28:04):
you're going to hate it. It's like be prepared for that,
but it's good on the other side.There is victory on the other
side. There is change on the other
side. Yeah.
Oh, that's so good. That's so good.
And it's right. I just often one of the in the
middle of a hard time for me, one of the thoughts that the
Lord laid on my heart was don't let it be in vain.
(28:25):
You know, I can I can go throughthis hard time and shove it over
there or curl up in a corner andlick my wounds and keep it to
myself. Or I can say, God, here, here
are these broken pieces. Here is this hurt.
Here is this mess. If if you can use this somehow
take it. And then our lives, even our
trauma has so much purpose and so much power when we just give
(28:48):
those broken pieces back to him and let him enter that space.
He wants to meet us right where we are.
And like you're saying, the way you talk when you, when you were
angry and you were frustrated. I mean, good grief, if we're in
the Bible, look at David, some of the things he said to the
Lord and we have to know. I always tell people, tell God
exactly how you feel. He already knows, you know, if
we come to him and we're like, Oh, praise you, Jesus.
(29:10):
And I'm worshiping. And then I go about my life and
I'm stewing and spinning in my anger and my frustration and my
hurt and my doubts and my questions.
And I'm not inviting God into that space where he can actually
do some work, you know, So I, I love that.
And everything you said there isjust beautiful.
(29:30):
Let's talk about reaching out for help and finding the right
combination of like the clinicaland the spiritual, because talk
about the mind, body, spirit connection.
And you can go however you want there because a lot of times,
and let me just ask you, you know, why does Christian culture
sometimes resist the whole person healing that mind, body,
(29:51):
spirit, emotions? How does the wholeness lead to a
more authentic, healthy church? Because I know you mentioned
that, but how does approaching healing from a whole person
perspective lead to a healthier Christian in general and a more
authentic life? Yeah, that's the great question.
(30:11):
I believe the biggest problem isthat we do not read the
Scriptures. I think view this like the
culture views it. The church does things often how
the culture does it. So with having that said, why we
don't embrace full mind by soul spirit is because the world
(30:34):
doesn't. You go to the doctor, they will
treat the physical problem. They don't talk about lifestyle,
they don't talk about food, theydon't talk about mental
emotional dynamics. We just treat the physical
problem. You go to the therapist, they're
going to give you something for the mental problem.
They don't talk about your emotions.
What leads you to this thinking,what you went through, what kind
(30:56):
of food you're eating? We, we separate them.
So the church, instead of going into scripture and adapting the
Kingdom way, we've adapted the world's way.
And we do this in a lot of ways,not just in this space, but we
do it overall. And so I think that's why for
me, God, God kind of was openingstuff up and just showing me
(31:19):
like you have to unlearn everything you thought you knew.
So when I I grew from a God who wanted to send me to hell or as
a teenager, I was like, just send me there.
Let's go. I'm done trying to make you
happy. That was my God.
It was very sin. Hell, you know, pay penance, do
all the things to then Western Christianity that was like
(31:41):
follow Jesus and he's going to make your dreams come true.
You, you're going to sow what you reap.
And then I find found myself in a theological crisis where all I
sowed was good, I did everythingright.
I followed Jesus and I was in the pit of hell.
And so that was really messing me up.
And then so in my Christian journey, I realized I don't, I
(32:04):
need to know Old Testament, New Testament God.
So we have this idea that when I'm in crisis, I go to the
scripture and I get a scripture verse and that's going to help
me and I'm going to put it on mywall and Facebook it and do all
the things and and God is supposed to speak to me.
But actually the scripture, yes,God speaks to you, but that's
not what it's designed for. You read the scriptures to know
(32:26):
the Lord to know how he operates, how he works, how he
moves. So when you're situation, you're
not searching for the Scripture,you know the nature of God, you
know the character of God. He does allow suffering because
he's doing something deeper because he did this with the
Israelites or you know, when, when this happened, that
(32:48):
happened, you Start learning hisnature.
And so a lot of times people go to the Bible in the wrong
context and really you fill and you fill and you fill.
Not for crisis, not for when youneed God desperately, you feel.
So when you are in crisis, what comes out of you is life.
Amen. Amen.
(33:09):
So I know the scripture, I'm like, no, that's not my
diagnosis. I'm I'm going to do what I know
to do to, to be better, but I'm not going to embrace the
sickness. And I think what we often do is
we just embrace, we take, we don't know the scripture.
So if the doctor says, hey, you have anxiety, here's medication.
We're like, OK, I have anxiety, I have medication.
(33:29):
That's it. We don't question things.
We don't take it through the filter of scripture to be like,
OK, I hear what this doctor is saying.
God, what do you think of this? I think so often in our
recovery, if we just waited on God instead of rushing to do do
something or make a decision or embrace the diagnosis, we would
(33:51):
actually find a path forward instead of walking on a path and
then often paying a price in that path.
And so I think as a church, we've embraced culture's way.
So we're getting culture results.
If you do what the world does, you get what the world has, you
know, So I, I think the more we start reading Scripture, we
understand. Like for me, it was like I had
(34:15):
heard certain things like from gurus and from people that you
know, and then I would read scripture and I remember one
time God speaking, I was like listening to this guru and this
is when I was even wasn't even walking with him.
I was mad at that time and he said something and because I had
read scripture in the past, I heard the Lord just feel like I
said that first. They stole that from me.
(34:38):
They just have a different language.
Do it, you know, And it's like when you start reading
scripture, you're like, Oh my goodness, like even the earth,
like with the Sabbath, for example, like the the Sabbath
was put in place not for the times where you're like, I need
a vacation. I'm dying.
It was to prevent you from needing a vacation if you're
(35:00):
with it. And then even the Earth took a
sabbatical after seven years. And it's like, if we only only
followed those principles, like we would see massive change.
Like it, it like a huge, it's, it's been so interesting to be
like, oh, I see. So and even like scientifically
you observe. So if your gut is not healthy,
(35:24):
it actually feeds anxiety and depression.
And though it's a physical problem, it's affected mind, you
know, and it's like, and even like stress and anxiety creates
tumors in the body that's producing cancer.
Yeah. And so it's like, just pay
attention to how God created your body.
That's why he says think on things that are noble, true,
(35:47):
pure, good, because your thoughts, they start dictating
everything else. So if we actually read
scriptures, we wouldn't separate.
Is that the big thing you know? Yes.
Oh, that's so good and it's so true.
And I love what you're saying. It's it's so true that the
science is constantly proving scripture.
You know, there's so much that'slike, oh, yeah.
(36:08):
Well, my thoughts affect my body.
Yeah. The scripture told us that,
like, worry was like rottenness to our bones.
He wasn't kidding, you know, I mean, they know laughter is good
medicine because our physical bodies actually experienced
healing when we have joy, you know, I mean, there's so much
that is right there, even down to, like you're saying, how to
make the earth produce. Well, you know, I mean, it's
(36:31):
amazing. And so I I love that because
you're 100% right. And I absolutely love what
you're saying. We should go to the Scripture
seeking to know God, not seekingto find out what to do.
Now, in knowing God, in knowing his ways, the Holy Spirit will
often make clear to us the path that we should walk in.
And that is in Scripture as well.
But it's when we delight ourselves in the Lord, it's when
(36:53):
we seek first his Kingdom that all these other things are
added. And so Jen Wilkin, she's does a
lot of Bible teaching and she talks a lot about that, like we
should go to Scripture learning about our God.
And then that transforms how we view everything around us and
gives us, like you're saying, the confidence that when we bump
up against something, well, yes,this is a hard place.
(37:15):
But if we think about God, I know what you did with the
children of Israel, and I know when they were between the army
and the ocean, you just parted the seas.
I know that you can do anything.So I find myself in this spot.
But I know who you are and I know your character.
I know what you've done. So I can stand firm even in the
midst of this really hard place.Not because I know the Bible and
(37:35):
because I quote Scripture. Everything's going to be OK.
You know, Jesus himself said in this world you will have
trouble, but take heart. I've overcome it, you know.
And so it's where is our faith? What are we going when we go to
Scripture, when we go to counseling, when we go in
prayer, are we just seeking whatcan fix me or am I seeking him
first? And in doing that, the dominoes,
(37:58):
you know, start to fall and goodstuff, good stuff.
I was just going to add to that.I think in theory for many
people, because I remember people talking about that and I
felt like I don't really want toread Scripture.
I'm I'm busy. And I would just say like, it
sounds beautiful and there's truth in it.
And I would just say, like, The thing is, ask God to give you a
(38:22):
hunger for scripture, You know, ask them to give you the hunger
because we're, we're sinful beings.
It's like anytime we're in a difficulty or in a crisis, we
never want to do what's good forus.
That's our nature. You know what I mean?
God to give you hunger. And I would always tell people
like, just like when you're reading scripture, you don't
(38:42):
have to have like an hour, like whatever time you have just fill
because the more you eat, the more we're hungry.
So in the world it's like you, you eat and then you're full.
But in the spiritual world, the more you eat, the more hungry
you become. And I would definitely ask you
if you're not hungry. Look at that.
(39:04):
Because when you're not hungry and the natural, that means
you're sick. If you're not hungry for the
Lord, then you're sick. There's something wrong, so
start diving into that and just say, God, I'm not hungry.
Like it was a struggle for me toI never understood being in the
secret place or, you know, theseare things that I didn't grow up
(39:25):
with. The Lord was kind of showing me
and I would then would God, you know, obviously locked into my
secret place and spent time withGod.
But in the beginning I didn't want to do it.
I was like, I'm tired. I don't, you know, you know, I
don't want to stay here with God.
You know, I felt like that, but then I just, I just kept at it.
If I'd skip a day or two or three, then I would just get
back in the word 5 minutes. I did it for 5 minutes.
(39:47):
If I had 10, I did it for 10. Like, you know, just just to
encourage anybody who, who's listening, who's like, yeah,
that sounds beautiful. But I, I feel bored with it.
That's an honest thing. You bored when you don't dive
in. And it's one of those things,
ask the Lord to give you a hunger, hunger and just start a
little bit every day. Start talking to him more, start
consulting with him. Because if you never consult
(40:09):
with the Lord, you're not going to have counsel from Him.
So start like a little bit out of time, catch yourself, be
like, OK, I OK, I have 5 minutes.
OK, listen to it when you're driving to work, like get the
word in you because it's going to produce hunger and it will
produce results. Amen.
So good. So, so true.
So for the person listening right now.
(40:29):
And she just feels like she's drowning in her pain, in her
struggle, in her depression, whatever it is in this space, in
just life in general. What's our first step?
Where, where does someone begin if they come to you and they're
like, I'm overwhelmed and I'm hurting or I'm angry?
Like step #1 simplify that firststep.
(40:51):
I think first the first step is come to Jesus.
Come to Jesus because especiallyif you have a well, like come to
God and ask him to show you whatto do and, and ask him to lead
you to the right person to do it.
If you're like needing counseling.
(41:13):
I think, I think we often miss this step in general.
I know I did. I did and still do sometimes
where I like go to other resources because I like to get
things done, you know, and God has been like really like
stripping me. And I feel like every hard
season, it's always like more and more stripping where I
become much more flexible. So I would say the first thing
(41:35):
is if you can, if you can get into a place where you do it
first, you're going to save yourself so much heartache.
And many people who go to so many routes and don't go to
Jesus 1st and they prolong theirrecovery.
They prolong the feeling when God wants to.
God is efficient. He knows when He's got to take
(41:56):
you deeper. He knows how deep to go because
He always heals. You heal in layers.
You don't heal. Like don't think about all of
the problems that you have first.
Take all of that's in your mind,release it to the Lord, and then
take a step back and just say, what is one thing I can do?
Just one thing. Just tackle one thing.
(42:19):
The most imminent thing that youfeel like you're struggling, try
to try to try to tackle that. So if it's like stuff that's
coming up or if it's a situationthat's toxic, if you can take
that and just bring it down to the bare bones of what it is,
it'll help you navigate that. One thing that you can do that's
realistic because you're not going to be able to do it all at
(42:40):
once. Just the just one thing, one
thing that you can do. Nice.
Yeah, Yeah, I like that. Just it's more realistic when
you can bring it down to that one thing.
And and Speaking of that, I knowthat a lot of what I've read
about you is you like to offer uncomplicated life hacks for
mental and emotional liberation.Do you have like a top one or
two that really is like your go to uncomplicated life hack for
(43:03):
this freedom? I love that.
There is probably 2 that I feel like helped me the most.
One was when I was in my pit. So I realized that I, I couldn't
sleep and I had this whole issue, but I realized with
myself that I would think about all of the horrible things that
had happened to me for 35 years and that's why I couldn't sleep,
(43:26):
right? So I did that for many, many
years and then I was like, well,no wonder I don't sleep.
So when I was tackling that, what I learned is in my pain, I
would sit with it for 5 minutes.So there's times where we don't
want to get up and it's like feel all of those feelings.
There's nothing wrong. People in the Christian world
(43:46):
feel like, oh, you can't feel negative or there's like the
reverse where is like, I'm just going to be in bed all day.
So I would recommend like what Idid was I just sat with it and I
would give myself time limits. Today I'm just going to sit in
bed. I'm going to feel sorry for
myself. I'm going to pity myself for 5
minutes or 5 minutes and then I'm going to get up and be
(44:07):
productive. And so that's how I started
navigating that part. I would just give myself small
fractions of time where I would feel what I needed to feel.
I would process in that moment and then I'd get up and do
something productive. And then that was, that was so
huge as I transitioned from my pit into recovery.
And then the second thing that Idid is I, I would create a list
(44:29):
of when I was feeling my absolute best, what was I doing?
So I made a list of like. I've done that too.
I love that. So I would like exercise.
I was at peace with my relationships.
I was eating well and eating clean.
I felt productive in my business.
I was spending time with the Lords.
I would make this detailed list and then when I was in my pit,
(44:52):
go back to that list and be like, what am I doing wrong?
Why do I feel this way? I hate how I feel.
I don't. I don't know why that makes me
cry, but I love that because I've done that and I've said
that to a few people, but I've never heard anyone else say it
like that. But make your list of when you
feel your best. What are those things?
And sometimes one of my rules isif I think, should I wash my
(45:15):
hair today? Just do it Like I feel better
when I am fully clean. You know, like things like that,
right? She's like, those are like, you
know, first. Yeah, I, I mean, I went like
that detail too. And then and it was so helpful,
you know, obviously. And anything you do with time
becomes more like second nature.But in the beginning, man, I
(45:36):
pulled out that list all the time.
I'm like, oh, I haven't been sleeping.
This is why I feel like crazy. This is why I'm depressed or I'm
overworked or I haven't spent time with my kids, whatever it
is. And so that really helped me
kind of get back on track as I was recovering.
And so like for me, like those two things were just super
helpful when I was in my pit andthen when I was in the healing
(45:59):
process. I love that.
I love that. I love that everybody got your
homework. Make your list.
I mean, one of those is like making my bed, you know, if I
get up and my bed is made, like I can think clearer, you know,
clean off your kitchen counters,whatever it is.
I mean, there's so many things that lighten our our mood and
our feeling and help us move outof that pit.
I love that. I love that it can be so
practical. All right, so I end every
(46:20):
episode with a few same questions that I give to
everyone. And I would love to know from
you, do you have a life verse orverse that is especially
bringing you life right now? There is one and it's and I
forget where it is 'cause I havelike 4, but there is one that
says this is the year of my redemption.
(46:41):
That's been my verse for this year 'cause I would say that the
last 10 years have been a lot ofprice paid, a lot of difficulty,
one after the other with no breaks.
So, so I've just been really camping on like, this is my year
of redemption. God, I'm just gonna surrender
that. And then there's one more I'll
(47:03):
share in Job. And it says there's no plan of
the Lord that can be thwarted. And so I've stood on that to be
like, you know, even if everything looks like it's going
down, like if your plan is there, nothing can change that.
And so those have been the kind of the two that I've danced
between. I love those, I love those.
How old are your girls? My girls they are 11 and 12 so
(47:28):
my clothes just taking all my stuff.
My my first born is taller than me.
Yep, the second. One is catching up quick, but
yeah, it's it's a really fun age.
I'm really. No, that's awesome.
My daughter's 16, got her license a few weeks ago.
And yeah, it's awesome. She's she's amazing.
But she is five inches taller than me and has been since she
(47:49):
was about 11. And my son is 13 and he just
passed me in height about two weeks ago, just like, you know,
so he's about to hit his thing, you know, but it's so funny just
watching our kids grow, you know, and and those life sages.
But I know what you mean. But here's what's really fun.
We had this season where my daughter was taking my clothes.
But now when she outgrows thingsor gets tired of things, I go
(48:11):
through them and take her hand me down.
I love that. So that's.
What I have to look forward? To that, yeah, it is fun.
It is fun. All right, So what is 1 simple
practical tip? I feel like you've already given
so many of these that you would share with the listener about
intertwining our walks of the Lord and our everyday life.
I think my biggest tip would be keep it simple.
(48:36):
Yeah, I think what I have noticed over the years and all
the people I've helped, those who recover well, those who do
lifeboat marriage, well, they keep it simple.
The moment you complicate it, the more problems you start
having. And I think that's what we see a
lot in our world. There's so many problems because
(48:56):
we complicate way too much. So when it comes to your walk
with the Lord, keep it simple. The gospel is simple, like the
moment you complicate Jesus and you, the moment you, I mean
Jesus was deep, but he was. So the moment you complicate
that, it starts getting muddied and messy instead of keeping to
the purity of what it is. The same for mental emotional
(49:18):
health. Keep it simple.
Like try to simplify, even if itfeels layered, if we can as much
as possible, simplify that situation or your marriage,
whatever conflicts you're having, get rid of all the noise
around it and get simple. I'm not, I'm not communicating
whatever, you know what I mean? If we simplify it, we're going
(49:41):
to find that we can in and we'llbe more aware of ourselves
because, you know, having emotional intelligence is very
important. The more simpler you become, you
start feeling when things are off and you can connecting
different dots and being like, oh, OK, let me, let me go, let
me bring this down. I'm not spending enough time
with my kids. That's what they're acting out
(50:02):
or whatever your dynamic is. It's simple.
Simplify, simplify, simplify. There's from that.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. All right, so where do we send
people to get your book? It's on Amazon, you can go
either to Amazon. It's available, you know,
paperback, hard copy, copy, Kindle and Audible.
(50:24):
So if you just want to let them that as well.
So you can either go through Amazon.
Also my website elenahuggins.com, my social
media link links are up there aswell.
Whatever is good for you. All right, great.
That was my last question is where can people find you?
So if they head to elenahuggins.com, they can find
your social links and all the good things there.
Get on your mailing list, I'm assuming, and, and all of that
(50:45):
to get all your practical and deep advice for being set free
from home of this emotional baggage we all struggle with,
right? And like I know you mentioned a
lot, you're willing to go, and that's kind of how I like to
roll. Go where no one else is willing
to go. Just talk about it, bring it
into the light. And that's what you're doing for
so many. So thank you for the work that
(51:05):
you're doing and the freedom that you're allowing the Lord to
use you to help bring into people's lives.
Thank. You so much.
You're so welcome. I'm so glad we did this.
Thanks for being here. Thanks so much for having me, it
has been such a such a pleasure.There's so much you said that
I'm like, yes, yeah, it's awesome.
Kindred spirit there for sure. You're like, I know exactly what
(51:27):
you're saying. I feel the same way.
Well, you know, when you go through and you do some of the
work and you have to arrive at things the hard ways.
But I do love the fact that you said the list.
It's like, yes, that's literally.
And I've even told my kids that,you know, like sit down, make a
list of when you feel your best.And it's like you're saying,
what am I eating? What am I doing?
(51:47):
Am I, am I going for walks? Am I getting sunshine?
And you know, whatever it is so good, so good, so good, so good.
Hey friend, if you enjoyed this episode and you got some good
stuff out of it, there's a few options.
You have 1 you could click that little subscribe button.
And also, if you would review this podcast, Oh my gosh, if you
(52:10):
like what you heard, get on there.
Give it a five star review. If you didn't like what you
heard, just pretend it never happened.
OK, but if you would do a reviewfor me, just take a couple
seconds and do that. Not only would I be crazy
excited, but also, so it would just be a great way for us to
partner together, for you to help this podcast be seen by
more women out there. And you could be a part of
(52:33):
helping more women discover these practical ways to apply
God's word to just everyday stuff.
So I would love it, love it, love it if you could help me out
in one of those two ways.
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