February 27, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode of the L3 Leadership podcast, Mark Miller, the former VP of High-Performance Leadership at Chick-fil-A, joins us to reveal the core principles of "Uncommon Greatness."
About Mark Miller: Mark started over 40 years ago working as an hourly employee at a local Chick-fil-A. He has worked all across the business since then and currently serves as Vice President of High-Performance Leadership at Chick-fil-A. For the last 20 years, Mark has traveled the United States and the world focusing much of his time on serving leaders, helping them grow themselves, their teams, and their organizations.
4 Key Takeaways:
1. Mark shares how important vision casting is for individuals in leadership and entire organizations.
2. Mark walks us through the five fundamentals as outlined in his book that can transform your leadership approach.
3. He talks about aligning vision, results, and relationships, all while keeping your core values intact.
4. We discuss idea of servant leadership and how it helps create a caring atmosphere for people and for achieving goals.
Quotes From the Episode:
“If you don’t spend enough time thinking about the future, there may not be one for your or for your organization.”
“Uncommon leadership is the path to uncommon greatness.”
Resources Mentioned:
Call Mark at 678-612-8441
Preorder Uncommon Greatness
Connect with Mark:
Mark’s Website | Facebook | YouTube | Instagram | Twitter | LinkedIn
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Doug Smith (00:07):
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsand Beratung advisors.
We also recorded this live fromthe new Birgo Realty Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you will enjoy
(00:29):
our content and become asubscriber.
Know that you can also watchall of our episodes over on our
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And, as always, if you've beenlistening to the podcast for a
while and it's impacted yourlife, it would mean the world to
me.
If you leave us a rating andreview on Apple Podcasts or
Spotify or wherever you listento podcasts through, that really
does help us to grow ouraudience and reach more leaders,
so thank you in advance forthat.
(00:50):
While, leader, in today'sepisode you're going to hear my
conversation with the one andonly Mark Miller.
He is returning to the podcastfor the third time and if you
are unfamiliar with Mark, let mejust tell you a little bit
about him.
Mark started over 40 years agoworking as an hourly employee at
a local Chick-fil-A and he hasworked all across the business
since then and recently justretired as the vice president of
high performance leadership atChick-fil-A.
(01:11):
And for the last 20 years he'salso traveled the United States
and the world, focusing much ofhis time on serving leaders,
helping them grow themselves,their teams and their
organizations.
In this episode, we talk allabout his new book that's coming
out, called Uncommon GreatnessFive Fundamentals to Transform
your Leadership.
And again, if you've neverheard Mark or even if you have,
he had so much value in thisconversation you're going to
(01:33):
love it.
Before we dive in, just a fewannouncements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBeratung Advisors help educate
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atBeratungAdvisorscom that's
(01:54):
B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisorscom.
Securities and investmentproducts and services offered
through LPL Financial.
Member of FINRA and SIPC,Beratung Advisors, LPL Financial
and L3 Leadership are separateentities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jewelry earned by myfriend and mentor, John Henne,
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
(02:15):
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in engaged, they give them
a book to help them prepare formarriage, and we just love that
.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out HenneJewelers
.
com.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withMark Miller.
Mark Miller, welcome back forthe third time to the L3
(02:38):
Leadership Podcast.
We were just joking.
At this pace of you writingbooks, you'll be on every three
months.
It'll be beautiful.
You add so much value to ouraudience every time that you're
on.
So thanks again for joining us.
Mark Miller (02:48):
Well, it's my pleasure, my pleasure.
Doug Smith (02:51):
Yeah, and I want to dive into the book, but before
we do.
We were just talking, you know,catching up, and you mentioned
that you just attended yourfirst rodeo ever.
What was that like this weekend?
Mark Miller (03:00):
It was fantastic.
I was in Fort Worth and again,you know you always say well,
this is not my first rodeo, well, I was looking for a t-shirt
that said this is my first rodeo, but those men and women were
amazing.
I mean, I'd seen snippets of ithere and there on TV, but it
was, it was.
It was really cool being therein person?
Doug Smith (03:22):
Did you watch Yellowstone Like what made you
go to a rodeo?
Mark Miller (03:25):
Well, I've always wanted to go to one and we were
visiting some friends and familyout there and they knew I'd
never been, and it was thesemifinal weekend for the 137th
edition, I think, of the FortWorth, what they call it.
There was a show and rodeolivestock show.
(03:47):
So, yeah, we got.
We got the full experience.
I got to get through a rodeo.
Doug Smith (03:52):
Well, I want to dive into the book.
The new book is called uncommongreatness five fundamentals
that transform your leadership,and you've been adding value to
leaders for so long in so manydifferent ways.
Why this book?
Why now?
And what do you want leaders to?
Mark Miller (04:04):
get out of it.
Okay, there's a lot in thatfirst question.
So, as I, as I have shared withyou on previous episodes, we've
always tried to look three tofive years into the future in
almost every project we'veworked on for the last 25 years
to identify the emerging needsthat leaders might be facing.
(04:25):
And you know we look for thoseweak signals.
And we've done work onleadership effectiveness because
we saw leaders struggling.
We've worked on culture becausewe said we're hearing more and
more about culture, on and onand on.
We've done that many, manytimes.
This one is just a little bitdifferent because this was a
request from Chick-fil-A.
Some of your listeners know Ispent almost 45 years working
(04:46):
for Chick-fil-A and Chick-fil-Acame to me, I think probably for
several reasons One, realizingthat I was at some point going
to retire, and they said, hey,we've got a problem We'd like
you to help us solve.
And I said, well, okay, what?
You know what's on your mind.
And they said something some ofyour leaders might know, that
(05:06):
Ken Blanchard and I did a book25 years ago called the Secret.
It was actually my firstwriting project.
It was at his insistence thatwe do that and it was.
It was amazing.
But we decided back then thatour paradigm of leadership
resembled an iceberg, that about10% is above the waterline and
(05:26):
about 90% is below, and the 10%above represents the skills and
the 90% below represents yourheart and your character as a
leader.
Well, we decided that veryfirst book was about the skills,
because we felt like that was apressing need in the world to
outline some of those things,those competencies that every
(05:47):
leader needed.
And it wasn't just a few yearslater, the outcry was for us to
do something on the below thewaterline.
Well, ken had too many otherthings going on, so I did that
by myself, and it was a bookcalled the Heart of Leadership.
So back to the problem thatChick-fil-A identified.
(06:07):
They said our point of view onleadership is now contained in
two books.
And they said what we'verealized is we have some of our
people in the organization whohave read one book or the other
and therefore they have atruncated view of our point of
view.
And they said can you put ittogether in one book?
(06:29):
And so this was an opportunityto A do a traditional book.
Those were parables.
So we wanted a traditional bookand combine those two models
into one approachable paradigmthat leaders could put into
action today.
So that's a little differentbackstory than all the other
(06:52):
books, but that's how we gothere.
Doug Smith (06:54):
Yeah, I'm excited that I've been.
One thing that I did see when Ilooked through the book, though
you mentioned Ken Blanchard.
You dedicated the book to him.
You talked about how he changedyour life through co-authoring
the Secret With you, and justwhen you get to spend time being
mentored with someone like that, I'm just curious what is the
impact that he's had on yourlife, so much so that you
dedicated this book to him?
Mark Miller (07:11):
Well, I had never had aspirations to write.
In fact, I may have told thisstory on a previous episode as
well.
We had done some work atChick-fil-A about how to
accelerate leadershipdevelopment and we had what I
call a crisis of confidence.
We weren't quite sure we had itright.
I mean, we were in the chickenbusiness and this was our first
foray into trying to articulate,document a point of view that
(07:35):
we would potentially teach forgenerations.
And goodness, we've now beenteaching it at Chick-fil-A for a
quarter century, and so wedidn't know that we had it right
and I was gonna be with Ken thenext day.
You can decide if that was adivine appointment or a
coincidence, but I said hey, I'mgonna be with Ken Blanchard
tomorrow.
He was a friend of mine and Isaid let me, do you want me?
(07:56):
I asked the team that had beenworking on this for a couple of
years.
At that point I said do youwant me to share this with Ken?
And they said, sure, please.
Yeah, that'd be fantastic.
So I said, hey, ken, we've beenworking on how to accelerate
leadership development and Ibasically showed him the serve
model five bullet points on asingle sheet of paper and the
first thing out of his mouth wasthis has gotta be a book.
(08:16):
Well, I blew him off and I said, ken, everything looks like a
book to you, which is why he'sprobably sold 70 million books.
And he said no, no, no, no.
He said you don't understand.
He said you were trying toarticulate what Chick-fil-A
believes about leadership and hesaid what you've done is you
have articulated what has beentrue about leadership forever.
(08:37):
And he said it's gotta be abook.
So he is that quintessentialleader who believed in me before
I believed in myself.
And he said let's do a book.
And he persisted there's a lotof backstory there, but he and I
ultimately did that first bookand it was published about 20
years ago.
Doug Smith (08:57):
Wow, and so really, one of the first fundamental in
the book is seeing the future.
It's all about having a visionand I love how this ties in so
technically you can say withElkens' vision of what your work
could be released in the world.
We wouldn't have all the greatMark Miller books that we have
in print today and he could seethe unseen for sure and talk
(09:19):
more about what that means asleaders.
The other thing that inspiredme when I was reading through
the See the Vision chapter isyou were challenged, I believe,
by the leaders of Chick-fil-A,to go out and reach 100 million
leaders.
Is that correct?
Like, what is the power of avision due for someone?
Mark Miller (09:33):
Okay, Well, it's interesting, Let me.
Yes, and you and I've talkedabout this before and you are
absolutely correct.
The former CEO challenged me totry to figure out how to reach
10 million leaders, and that wasyears and years ago, you are
correct.
And then, now that I havetransitioned out of the chicken,
I've entered my second half,people said well, what are you
(09:54):
gonna do?
I said we're gonna find a wayto reach 100 million leaders and
I think, with technology, Ithink that's a reasonable goal.
So, yes, that was another casewhere we were trying to serve
predominantly the Chick-fil-Aleaders.
We were publishing our work,but we didn't really have
aspirations that were on thatscale.
(10:15):
And it was that senior leaderthat said hey, what if you found
a way to serve 10 millionleaders a year?
And I went back and shared thatwith the team and they said you
know, that is possible.
Now, this was obviously a fewyears back and I said okay, how
is that possible?
And they said have you heard ofsomething called the internet?
That's actually when I firststarted blogging, so I wrote
(10:39):
over four years.
I wrote over 600 blog posts.
I was doing three a week inorder to begin building a
platform and serving globalleaders, and so that's how we
took that next step was somebodywho could see something I
couldn't see.
Doug Smith (10:55):
Well, that's so good and you're really illustrating
the power of actually being ableto see the future, and
sometimes we need people in ourlives that see a bigger future
for our lives than we do, andthank God for that.
But why did you, why is this soimportant and you included as a
fundamental in the book forleaders to get really clear on
providing a clear vision of thefuture.
Mark Miller (11:11):
Yeah, leadership always begins with a picture of
the future.
Always, if you're not pursuingsomething, you're not leading.
Now I'm not throwing rocks, I'mnot trying to talk bad about
you, but if you're not pursuinganything, you're managing at
best, which is management isabout today, leadership is about
the future, and you may noteven be managing well if you
(11:34):
don't have any preconceivednotion about what you're trying
to accomplish and what you'retrying to achieve and who you're
trying to become.
And so people have asked me for25 years is this the most
important of the fundamentals?
And I would argue well, they'reall fundamental, but it's the
first among equals, because ifyou're not trying to accomplish
anything, then you don't evenneed the other fundamentals.
Doug Smith (11:57):
Yeah, so what can leaders do?
One even just to take time?
Like you said, management'sabout today, but even as leaders
who are visionary, it's so easyto get focused and boggle down
by the day to day that we reallydon't time, don't take time to
actually see a clear picture ofthe future.
What advice do you have forleaders on just taking time to
see the future?
Mark Miller (12:14):
Yeah, Well, let me let me quickly add I don't want
to paint that and I did, let me,let me let me reel that back in
just half a step.
I don't want to make it makethis too simplistic.
The best leaders are Areconstantly in a heads up, heads
down, heads up, heads down,because today does matter, but
they don't become encumbered bytoday, right, they don't let the
(12:34):
future be jeopardized by today.
So, ken and I actually wroteabout that a long, long time ago
that there is this tensionheads up, heads down.
Just, far too many leadersaren't spending enough time
heads up, they're not lookingtoward the future, and I would
argue that if you don't spendenough time thinking about the
future, there may not be one foryou or for your organization.
(12:55):
And so if I'm giving somebodyan advice, some advice, I would
say they need to be carving outsome time to think about the
future.
Because this, this fundamental,is really about weaving those
threads of what you know to betrue with what you know needs to
be true, and and painting acompelling picture that you can
(13:16):
rally others to join you,because you can't do it by
yourself.
By the way, if you can do it byyourself, it's not much.
I always tell leaders I hopeyou're trying to do something
that's going to require you,plus others, hmm, and this first
fundamental gives you somethingTo share with others, a vision
to cast.
Doug Smith (13:37):
Yeah, and so if you actually take the time to put
your head up and get the vision,then there's the challenge of
how do you actually cast that ina compelling enough way and
consistently enough throughoutthe organization I think about I
don't know so many employeesyou had at Chick-fil-A, but when
true it, or someone at the tophas this vision, what are some
keys for leaders to actuallycast, kade that vision down to
where it's reaching the?
(13:58):
The guy at the Chick-fil-Acounter saying my pleasure.
Mark Miller (14:01):
All right.
So this is a great opportunityfor me to offer my standard
disclaimer.
I would encourage your audiencenot to misinterpret the brevity
of my response with themagnitude of that question.
We could talk the rest of thisepisode on on this single topic,
because communicating visioncascading vision is is a huge,
(14:22):
huge Responsibility andchallenge for leaders, but let
me give you a couple of quicktips so that we can talk about
some of the other fundamentals.
The first thing I would say isyou need, you need to be able to
share your hopes and dreams ina, in a form and a fashion that
is simple, clear and repeatable,like now.
(14:43):
You may be able, and should beable to elaborate on that.
I had a leader call me not longago and he said hey, I want to
share my vision with you.
He was actually working on hisculture and he read me the most
eloquent, beautiful, wellthought out, just it was.
It was, it was beautiful.
(15:05):
And I said listen, we finished.
And I said you need to laminatethat.
And he said really.
I said it's fantastic.
I said, however, you need threemore versions because what he
read me was several minutes long, and I said that's great.
I said now you need to write anelevator speech, write a
paragraph that represents that.
(15:26):
I said that'll be your second.
And I said, while you're headedin that direction, then you
need to figure out how do yousay it in a sentence or a phrase
.
See, far too many leaders startwith the the phrase, and all
they're doing is sloganeering.
There's no meat, there's nosubstance, there's no passion,
there's no, there's no truththere, it's just.
(15:47):
It's just a catchy phrase.
But because this guy had donethat hard work first, then I
said get you something.
Peter Drucker, the latemanagement and leadership Guru,
said this a hundred years ago,probably not quite, but a long
time ago.
He said if you can't put it ona t-shirt, you don't have it.
Yet you, that's that.
That's that little pithy way tohelp people get it and
(16:08):
understand it.
And he said okay, what's thefourth way?
I said now go back and do afull keynote.
So when you can totally unpackthis because what you read for
me was two or three or fourminutes you're going to be able
to talk about this for an hourand give examples and
illustrations and nuance and soforth and so on.
And so I think you it has to atsome point, though, be clear,
(16:29):
simple and repeatable.
So that's a lot to say.
The only other thing I'll sayis you then have to go to your
inner circle.
Be sure those are around.
You Understand it, because whenyou start casting it publicly,
the first thing when people havequestions, they're not going to
call you.
If you're the point leader,they're going to call their boss
or their boss's boss, and youdon't want them to say, well, I
(16:51):
don't know.
I heard it the first time.
You heard it, we, you know,we're all in this together.
We don't know, and so that'swhy cascading is so powerful.
But if you skip that innercircle, you're setting yourself
up for grief.
Doug Smith (17:04):
And well, thank you for sharing that, Martha.
That's a masterclass in visioncasting and communication.
I want to hit a few otherfoundations of the new book.
One that I love is values,results and relationships.
What this is such attention, Ithink, for so many leaders.
I know I am, you know,recovering people, Pleaser.
I want to make everyone happy.
I care more about relationshipsthan results, but the reality
(17:25):
is, as leaders were responsiblefor both, why.
Why is this one of thefoundations?
Mark Miller (17:31):
Well, let me, let me say it for most leaders, it's
going to be the mostchallenging of the fundamentals,
and the reason I say that withconfidence is I believe that
most leaders have a natural bias.
You've confessed yours.
My natural bias is more towardresults.
Now, there's a really smallpercentage of leaders I've done
(17:52):
a non scientific study over thelast 25 years and I'm guessing
they're probably 5% of leadersthat value both without any
extraordinary effort.
I don't like those leadersbecause leadership is easier for
them, but for me and you and awhole lot of other leaders, we
have to find a way to value bothbecause there's there's
(18:15):
tremendous power in that tension.
Jim Collins coined the phrasethe genius of the, and he found
this in highly successfulorganizations Gosh, that was
probably 20 years ago and hewould use an example like Toyota
.
When they said we're going toproduce high quality cars at low
(18:36):
cost, it's like, well, thatdoesn't make sense.
Well, there's power when youcan, when you can pursue things
that on the surface and fromtime to time, actually are in
oppositions.
The genius of the and well,valuing results and
relationships is a perfectexample of that, and the reason
it matters so much is that if,if you focus exclusively on
(18:58):
relationships, you're going tosuboptimize results.
But, by the same token, if Ifocus exclusively on results,
I'm going to suboptimize results.
So the way you maximizeperformance which is why we lead
right, we're trying toaccomplish something.
The goal is not leadership, thegoals performance, and the way
you maximize it is to value both.
(19:20):
That's why it matters.
Doug Smith (19:22):
Yeah, and I'm curious.
You know you confessed you'remore on the results side.
How had you had to grow?
How did you have to grow overthe course of your career to be
more focused on people than theresults?
Mark Miller (19:33):
Well, it's not a, it's not more people than
results.
It's to value both at a veryhigh level.
Because, see, a lot of folkswill say, and you didn't say
this?
But a lot of folks will say,well, I'm just trying to be
right in the middle.
I said, well then, you'repretty mediocre on both.
You actually need to value both.
It's like can you, can you getpassionate about both?
(19:54):
You value both.
You may not change yourhardwiring and the way you see
the world, but I think for me,and I would say for you and for
all the folks listening, I thinkit's a two step process and I
love the fact it's a two stepprocess because that's simple, I
can get my head around it, onewhich you and I have already
taken.
This first step, it's to ownyour bias.
(20:14):
Don't don't make excuses, don'thide, Don't be ashamed, don't
wish you were like somebody else.
It's like no no, you areuniquely made to be who you are.
Okay.
So let's start by honoring ourbias and owning it and saying,
yep, this is who I am.
Step two in the process is themoney step, and that is when you
(20:37):
compensate.
And I liken it to a leader thatwears glasses.
You wouldn't look at a leaderwho wears glasses and say
they're a lesser leader becausethey wear glasses.
I think you might say they'repretty smart because they
realized there was somethingthey didn't do, naturally well,
and they found the properprescription to compensate.
(20:58):
And so I tell leaders if you'remore results oriented, then you
have to find ways to compensateon the relationship side and
vice versa.
It's like dialing in theappropriate prescription what
kind of systems, what kind ofhabits, what kind of people do
you need to bring around you?
So I would encourage you to besure there are some people who
(21:19):
see the world differently onyour leadership team.
If we're not careful, we'llselect people just like us.
You'll have a bunch ofrelationship people.
You need some folks who valueresults on your leadership team
and I need some people who valuerelationships on mine.
So that's probably the simplestway.
And then you just have tofigure out how much of a
prescription.
How much compensation do youneed so that you can actually
(21:43):
value both?
Yeah?
Doug Smith (21:45):
that's so good.
I know this was a huge growtharea for me.
I'm my early 30s.
I remember I had theopportunity to have a lunch with
John Maxwell and I was askinghim about this and he just said,
doug, you have to make thedecision that you'll always love
people but not depend on theirlove and, for whatever reason,
that that was the statement thatI needed.
That kind of made me value bothand then balance that attention
(22:06):
well, and every time I'm aboutto have a hard conversation
around results, I remind myselfof, hey, I'm loving this person
and actually I'm loving them bybeing honest with them and
valuing results.
That was huge for my growth,and so thank you for sharing a
little bit about your journey to.
Yeah so, and the otherfoundation is embody a leader's
heart.
I love this.
(22:27):
Why is this important?
Mark Miller (22:29):
Okay, this is.
I mentioned earlier we were, wewere pushing two models
together.
So anybody who's read thesecret might remember that the
last Fundamental was embody thevalues.
And we've now changed thatbecause they're five heart
Habits that we think areactually below the waterline if
you go back to our iceberg.
(22:50):
That represent a leader's heart.
Why it's important.
If your heart's not right, noone cares about your skills and
there's probably somebodylistening who's got the skills
and they wonder why people won'tfollow them Because they
probably don't trust your heart.
And I'm not talking about don'tlie, don't cheat, don't steal
(23:11):
that all matters.
I'm talking about thosedistinctive marks on a leader's
life.
Leaders are different.
Leaders hunger for wisdom.
Leaders expect the best.
Leaders accept responsibility.
You see where this is going.
Those are the heart habits andthere are a few more that
leaders must Pursue and andultimately Make progress so that
(23:39):
people will trust you enough tofollow you.
Doug Smith (23:44):
Yeah, that's so good .
I know you have an assessmentwith the book on all of these,
but I'm curious you know how, asa leader, do I determine
whether or not I'm a leaderworth following or Get feedback
around that?
Mark Miller (23:54):
Well, you kind of see if people are following you.
Yes, I mean, I got a quoteDrucker one more time.
He said there are two tests ofa leader do they get results and
do they have followers?
Doug Smith (24:07):
Hmm.
Mark Miller (24:08):
If nobody's following it, john, you talk,
john.
John said this a hundred yearsago If you, if you, if you're
leading and you look over yourshoulder and nobody's following
you, you're just out taking awalk, right?
So I think it'll be.
It'll be pretty obvious ifYou've got heart issues.
(24:29):
But the good news is, withintention and effort, you can
change your heart and and youcan become a leader people want
to follow.
Doug Smith (24:40):
Yeah, and you close the book, and I love this.
You close the book withchallenging leaders to always
serve, and you know Servingleadership is a big topic, but
why did you close the book thatway?
Mark Miller (24:50):
Well, you know that part of what we're trying to do
here is is tell folks Uncommonleadership is the path to
uncommon greatness.
We didn't talk about that inthis interview, which is fine,
but a lot of leaders let me letme go back there for a second a
lot of leaders are pursuingcommon greatness, in essence,
(25:11):
their lighters leaning againstthe wrong wall, and Most of them
will tell you that once theyget to the top, it's not
fulfilling like they thought itwould be, it's not sustainable,
it's, it's fleeting, it's, it'sfocused on them.
Uncommon greatness is focusedon others and it and it will
(25:31):
last and it elicits greatnessfrom others and when you're
pursuing that type of greatness,it makes all the difference in
the world.
The path is uncommon leadershipand You'll know those leaders
because they're the ones thatare willing to serve.
Doug Smith (25:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, can you talk more about?
You know, obviously, wherepeople can get the book, but
then also the assessment thatyou've provided.
Mark Miller (25:56):
Yes, there is an assessment.
If you would text Uncommon tosix, six, eight, six, six, there
you go, and it's not one ofthose assessments that, when you
finish it, you'll think, well,I just wasted ten minutes of my
life that I'll never get back.
It's not one of those.
It's behaviorally based,dependent on your responses, and
(26:19):
it'll say, okay, based on whatyou said, here's some things
that we think would help you,and I'm really excited about it.
The early feedback has beenpositive.
We started sharing theassessment months before the
book came out, and so justreally even in the development
phase, we were trying to buildthat.
I had a fantastic team of abunch of really smart people.
(26:42):
We did interviews with leadersto figure out what are the right
areas to probe and whatquestions would maybe not be.
The answers aren't reallyobvious, but they're telling and
help, cause we all have our ownbias, and so we were trying to
build something that would getthrough that and around that and
add value to leaders, and soit's free.
(27:02):
I hope you'll take it andbenefit from it.
Doug Smith (27:06):
Yeah, and Mark, I know we were joking that.
You know you write a new bookevery three months, but, man,
you have so much rich leadershipcontent and I know you're
always thinking into the future.
What's on your heart right nowfor leaders, as you think, even
beyond this book, like what areyou dreaming about?
What do you see being down thepipe?
Mark Miller (27:21):
I've got two more in the works.
Doug Smith (27:23):
Of course you do Well.
Mark Miller (27:25):
One we've already invested about $4 million on the
research, and it's onorganizational change.
Conventional wisdom is that 70%of organizational change
efforts fail.
I mean, think about the cost,the human cost, the energy, the
(27:45):
emotions, the financialimplications.
Seven out of 10 change effortsfail, and in reality it may be
more than that.
We've done a global survey,talked to leaders all over, a
lot of work on that, so therewill be a book on organizational
change coming Then.
One more I'm really excitedabout is we are building a
(28:08):
leadership operating system.
We're gonna provide a path forleaders with three anchors One,
how do you become a betterleader.
Two, how do you improve teamperformance.
And three, how do youstrengthen your organization.
And that work is underway andshould be published.
(28:29):
It'll be published before thechange book.
It's slated to come out in 25.
So a lot of fun stuff in thepipeline.
Doug Smith (28:37):
And Mark, I'd love to hear you just talk a little
bit more about your why.
I think it was the firstinterview I asked you.
Somehow charity or generositycame up and you said a lot of
your generosity goes towardsleadership development
organizations.
You just talked about spending$4 million on research that'll
help make leaders better Like.
Why are you giving your lifeaway towards this vision of
reaching 100 million leaders?
Why is that so important andcompelling to you?
Mark Miller (28:59):
Well, I feel it's my personal calling and, as I
mentioned earlier I think Imentioned that I've retired from
Chick-fil-A, which is great.
That happened just a few monthsago and it was a fantastic run
and I'm so thankful for so manythings.
We don't have time to get intoall of that, but here's my point
of view, and this is I'm notthrowing shade at anybody who
(29:21):
sees this differently, but Ithink you can retire from a job.
I don't think you can retirefrom a calling, and so my
calling is unchanged, I believe,as best I can discern, I'm on
the planet to encourage andequip leaders to change their
world, and so I don't work atthe chicken anymore.
(29:42):
But those are sort of mystanding orders and I'm gonna
keep working on that until Idiscern that I'm supposed to do
something different.
Doug Smith (29:51):
Yeah, and I guess I would ask what's your advice?
I try to do the same thingwhere I'm at.
We have a podcast conference,all these different things.
You mentioned this vision ofreaching 100 million leaders.
You've blogged, you have apodcast books.
What have you found thegreatest way to actually help
equip and train leaders tochange the world?
What's been most fruitful foryou?
Mark Miller (30:09):
Well, let me say I don't know the answer to that, I
mean, but my daddy used to outfish me and I think there were
many reasons he would out fishme, and one is he'd put more
lines in the water than I would.
And I think the world we live in, I think some people want a
podcast and some people want abook, and some people want a
computer assisted learningmodule and some people want an
(30:31):
app and some people want ajournal and some people it's
like.
So we're going, we're going toserve a bunch of leaders.
We're going to have to put alot of hooks in the water Now
because of the scale of ourvision.
It will have a huge technologycomponent and we're building a
platform right now, thatoperating system that I
mentioned.
It will be available in anonline academy so that people
(30:56):
who want that form of learningcan access it, and that will be
the ticket to scale.
I mean, I'll still stand up anddo keynotes, but you're not
going to reach a hundred millionpeople doing keynotes.
You're not going to reach ahundred million people writing
books.
So, because of the magnitude ofthat vision, we will build over
time what I believe will be arobust technology platform.
Doug Smith (31:21):
Yeah, I love that vision of getting a bunch of
lines in the water.
I love, love, love that, as weclose, open ended Anything else
you want to leave or challengeleaders with today.
Mark Miller (31:31):
Well, I guess a challenge and then a footnote.
You know what you do matters.
I want to remind you what youdo matters.
Everything rises and falls onleadership.
We quote John one more time.
I mean he got that rightChurches and schools and
hospitals and families andchicken restaurants, and
(31:52):
everything rises and falls onleadership.
We are the strategic lever toliterally change the world.
Wow.
And so I want to continue toencourage you.
I know it's hard.
I had a CEO just recently.
I'd done a keynote for her as aworkshop for her senior leaders
like 10 leaders in the room andI got through.
The CEO was the first to speakand she said what you're talking
(32:16):
about sounds hard.
And I said all of you signed upfor a hard job.
There are much easier ways tomake a living.
Doug Smith (32:28):
It is hard.
Mark Miller (32:28):
We want to make it doable.
Hard, not destructive.
Hard, that's another talk foranother day.
But it is hard, and so that'swhy I want to be one more voice,
not only encouraging you, but Iwant to equip you so that you
can be successful.
So the footnote and I did this,I think, on our last show I
want to give everybody my cellnumber in case they want to
(32:49):
reach out.
That number is 678-612-8441.
Doug Smith (32:57):
Wow, and we'll include a link to the book.
We'll include his cell phonenumber and everything else that
we discussed in the show notes,so make sure you check those out
, mark.
Thank you again.
The third interview waswonderful.
Thank you for adding value tome.
I'm one of the 100 million thatyou're impacting in.
Hopefully we'll do this againsoon.
Great, doug, thank you verymuch.
You're welcome.
Well, leader, thank you so muchfor listening to my
conversation with Mark.
(33:18):
I hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as I did.
You can find ways to connectwith him and links to everything
that we discussed in the shownotes at l3leadership.
org/411And, as always, leader, I like
to end every episode with aquote, and today I'll quote
Rosalind Carter, who said this aleader takes people where they
want to go.
A great leader takes peoplewhere they don't necessarily
want to go, but ought to be.
(33:38):
I love that.
Well, leader, I say it everyepisode, but know that my wife
Laura and I love you.
We believe in you and don'tquit.
Keep leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
Hey, leader, and welcome to another episode of
the L3 Leadership Podcast, wherewe are obsessed with helping
you grow to your maximumpotential and to maximize the
impact of your leadership.
My name is Doug Smith and I amyour host, and today's episode
is brought to you by my friendsand Beratung advisors.
We also recorded this live fromthe new Birgo Realty Studio.
If you're new to the podcast,welcome.
I'm so glad that you're hereand I hope that you will enjoy
(00:29):
our content and become asubscriber.
Know that you can also watchall of our episodes over on our
YouTube channel, so make sureyou're subscribed there as well.
And, as always, if you've beenlistening to the podcast for a
while and it's impacted yourlife, it would mean the world to
me.
If you leave us a rating andreview on Apple Podcasts or
Spotify or wherever you listento podcasts through, that really
does help us to grow ouraudience and reach more leaders,
so thank you in advance forthat.
(00:50):
While, leader, in today'sepisode you're going to hear my
conversation with the one andonly Mark Miller.
He is returning to the podcastfor the third time and if you
are unfamiliar with Mark, let mejust tell you a little bit
about him.
Mark started over 40 years agoworking as an hourly employee at
a local Chick-fil-A and he hasworked all across the business
since then and recently justretired as the vice president of
high performance leadership atChick-fil-A.
(01:11):
And for the last 20 years he'salso traveled the United States
and the world, focusing much ofhis time on serving leaders,
helping them grow themselves,their teams and their
organizations.
In this episode, we talk allabout his new book that's coming
out, called Uncommon GreatnessFive Fundamentals to Transform
your Leadership.
And again, if you've neverheard Mark or even if you have,
he had so much value in thisconversation you're going to
(01:33):
love it.
Before we dive in, just a fewannouncements.
This episode of the L3Leadership Podcast is sponsored
by Beratung Advisors.
The financial advisors atBeratung Advisors help educate
and empower clients to makeinformed financial decisions.
You can find out how BeratungAdvisors can help you develop a
customized financial plan foryour financial future by
visiting their website atBeratungAdvisorscom that's
(01:54):
B-E-R-A-T-U-N-G-Advisorscom.
Securities and investmentproducts and services offered
through LPL Financial.
Member of FINRA and SIPC,Beratung Advisors, LPL Financial
and L3 Leadership are separateentities.
I also want to thank our sponsor, Henne Jewelers.
They're a jewelry earned by myfriend and mentor, John Henne,
and my wife Laura and I got ourengagement and wedding rings
(02:15):
through Henne Jewelers and hadan incredible experience.
And not only do they have greatjewelry, but they also invest
in people.
In fact, for every couple thatcomes in engaged, they give them
a book to help them prepare formarriage, and we just love that
.
So if you're in need of a goodjeweler, check out HenneJewelers
.
com.
And with all that being said,let's dive right in.
Here's my conversation withMark Miller.
Mark Miller, welcome back forthe third time to the L3
(02:38):
Leadership Podcast.
We were just joking.
At this pace of you writingbooks, you'll be on every three
months.
It'll be beautiful.
You add so much value to ouraudience every time that you're
on.
So thanks again for joining us.
Mark Miller (02:48):
Well, it's my pleasure, my pleasure.
Doug Smith (02:51):
Yeah, and I want to dive into the book, but before
we do.
We were just talking, you know,catching up, and you mentioned
that you just attended yourfirst rodeo ever.
What was that like this weekend?
Mark Miller (03:00):
It was fantastic.
I was in Fort Worth and again,you know you always say well,
this is not my first rodeo, well, I was looking for a t-shirt
that said this is my first rodeo, but those men and women were
amazing.
I mean, I'd seen snippets of ithere and there on TV, but it
was, it was.
It was really cool being therein person?
Doug Smith (03:22):
Did you watch Yellowstone Like what made you
go to a rodeo?
Mark Miller (03:25):
Well, I've always wanted to go to one and we were
visiting some friends and familyout there and they knew I'd
never been, and it was thesemifinal weekend for the 137th
edition, I think, of the FortWorth, what they call it.
There was a show and rodeolivestock show.
(03:47):
So, yeah, we got.
We got the full experience.
I got to get through a rodeo.
Doug Smith (03:52):
Well, I want to dive into the book.
The new book is called uncommongreatness five fundamentals
that transform your leadership,and you've been adding value to
leaders for so long in so manydifferent ways.
Why this book?
Why now?
And what do you want leaders to?
Mark Miller (04:04):
get out of it.
Okay, there's a lot in thatfirst question.
So, as I, as I have shared withyou on previous episodes, we've
always tried to look three tofive years into the future in
almost every project we'veworked on for the last 25 years
to identify the emerging needsthat leaders might be facing.
(04:25):
And you know we look for thoseweak signals.
And we've done work onleadership effectiveness because
we saw leaders struggling.
We've worked on culture becausewe said we're hearing more and
more about culture, on and onand on.
We've done that many, manytimes.
This one is just a little bitdifferent because this was a
request from Chick-fil-A.
Some of your listeners know Ispent almost 45 years working
(04:46):
for Chick-fil-A and Chick-fil-Acame to me, I think probably for
several reasons One, realizingthat I was at some point going
to retire, and they said, hey,we've got a problem We'd like
you to help us solve.
And I said, well, okay, what?
You know what's on your mind.
And they said something some ofyour leaders might know, that
(05:06):
Ken Blanchard and I did a book25 years ago called the Secret.
It was actually my firstwriting project.
It was at his insistence thatwe do that and it was.
It was amazing.
But we decided back then thatour paradigm of leadership
resembled an iceberg, that about10% is above the waterline and
(05:26):
about 90% is below, and the 10%above represents the skills and
the 90% below represents yourheart and your character as a
leader.
Well, we decided that veryfirst book was about the skills,
because we felt like that was apressing need in the world to
outline some of those things,those competencies that every
(05:47):
leader needed.
And it wasn't just a few yearslater, the outcry was for us to
do something on the below thewaterline.
Well, ken had too many otherthings going on, so I did that
by myself, and it was a bookcalled the Heart of Leadership.
So back to the problem thatChick-fil-A identified.
(06:07):
They said our point of view onleadership is now contained in
two books.
And they said what we'verealized is we have some of our
people in the organization whohave read one book or the other
and therefore they have atruncated view of our point of
view.
And they said can you put ittogether in one book?
(06:29):
And so this was an opportunityto A do a traditional book.
Those were parables.
So we wanted a traditional bookand combine those two models
into one approachable paradigmthat leaders could put into
action today.
So that's a little differentbackstory than all the other
(06:52):
books, but that's how we gothere.
Doug Smith (06:54):
Yeah, I'm excited that I've been.
One thing that I did see when Ilooked through the book, though
you mentioned Ken Blanchard.
You dedicated the book to him.
You talked about how he changedyour life through co-authoring
the Secret With you, and justwhen you get to spend time being
mentored with someone like that, I'm just curious what is the
impact that he's had on yourlife, so much so that you
dedicated this book to him?
Mark Miller (07:11):
Well, I had never had aspirations to write.
In fact, I may have told thisstory on a previous episode as
well.
We had done some work atChick-fil-A about how to
accelerate leadershipdevelopment and we had what I
call a crisis of confidence.
We weren't quite sure we had itright.
I mean, we were in the chickenbusiness and this was our first
foray into trying to articulate,document a point of view that
(07:35):
we would potentially teach forgenerations.
And goodness, we've now beenteaching it at Chick-fil-A for a
quarter century, and so wedidn't know that we had it right
and I was gonna be with Ken thenext day.
You can decide if that was adivine appointment or a
coincidence, but I said hey, I'mgonna be with Ken Blanchard
tomorrow.
He was a friend of mine and Isaid let me, do you want me?
(07:56):
I asked the team that had beenworking on this for a couple of
years.
At that point I said do youwant me to share this with Ken?
And they said, sure, please.
Yeah, that'd be fantastic.
So I said, hey, ken, we've beenworking on how to accelerate
leadership development and Ibasically showed him the serve
model five bullet points on asingle sheet of paper and the
first thing out of his mouth wasthis has gotta be a book.
(08:16):
Well, I blew him off and I said, ken, everything looks like a
book to you, which is why he'sprobably sold 70 million books.
And he said no, no, no, no.
He said you don't understand.
He said you were trying toarticulate what Chick-fil-A
believes about leadership and hesaid what you've done is you
have articulated what has beentrue about leadership forever.
(08:37):
And he said it's gotta be abook.
So he is that quintessentialleader who believed in me before
I believed in myself.
And he said let's do a book.
And he persisted there's a lotof backstory there, but he and I
ultimately did that first bookand it was published about 20
years ago.
Doug Smith (08:57):
Wow, and so really, one of the first fundamental in
the book is seeing the future.
It's all about having a visionand I love how this ties in so
technically you can say withElkens' vision of what your work
could be released in the world.
We wouldn't have all the greatMark Miller books that we have
in print today and he could seethe unseen for sure and talk
(09:19):
more about what that means asleaders.
The other thing that inspiredme when I was reading through
the See the Vision chapter isyou were challenged, I believe,
by the leaders of Chick-fil-A,to go out and reach 100 million
leaders.
Is that correct?
Like, what is the power of avision due for someone?
Mark Miller (09:33):
Okay, Well, it's interesting, Let me.
Yes, and you and I've talkedabout this before and you are
absolutely correct.
The former CEO challenged me totry to figure out how to reach
10 million leaders, and that wasyears and years ago, you are
correct.
And then, now that I havetransitioned out of the chicken,
I've entered my second half,people said well, what are you
(09:54):
gonna do?
I said we're gonna find a wayto reach 100 million leaders and
I think, with technology, Ithink that's a reasonable goal.
So, yes, that was another casewhere we were trying to serve
predominantly the Chick-fil-Aleaders.
We were publishing our work,but we didn't really have
aspirations that were on thatscale.
(10:15):
And it was that senior leaderthat said hey, what if you found
a way to serve 10 millionleaders a year?
And I went back and shared thatwith the team and they said you
know, that is possible.
Now, this was obviously a fewyears back and I said okay, how
is that possible?
And they said have you heard ofsomething called the internet?
That's actually when I firststarted blogging, so I wrote
(10:39):
over four years.
I wrote over 600 blog posts.
I was doing three a week inorder to begin building a
platform and serving globalleaders, and so that's how we
took that next step was somebodywho could see something I
couldn't see.
Doug Smith (10:55):
Well, that's so good and you're really illustrating
the power of actually being ableto see the future, and
sometimes we need people in ourlives that see a bigger future
for our lives than we do, andthank God for that.
But why did you, why is this soimportant and you included as a
fundamental in the book forleaders to get really clear on
providing a clear vision of thefuture.
Mark Miller (11:11):
Yeah, leadership always begins with a picture of
the future.
Always, if you're not pursuingsomething, you're not leading.
Now I'm not throwing rocks, I'mnot trying to talk bad about
you, but if you're not pursuinganything, you're managing at
best, which is management isabout today, leadership is about
the future, and you may noteven be managing well if you
(11:34):
don't have any preconceivednotion about what you're trying
to accomplish and what you'retrying to achieve and who you're
trying to become.
And so people have asked me for25 years is this the most
important of the fundamentals?
And I would argue well, they'reall fundamental, but it's the
first among equals, because ifyou're not trying to accomplish
anything, then you don't evenneed the other fundamentals.
Doug Smith (11:57):
Yeah, so what can leaders do?
One even just to take time?
Like you said, management'sabout today, but even as leaders
who are visionary, it's so easyto get focused and boggle down
by the day to day that we reallydon't time, don't take time to
actually see a clear picture ofthe future.
What advice do you have forleaders on just taking time to
see the future?
Mark Miller (12:14):
Yeah, Well, let me let me quickly add I don't want
to paint that and I did, let me,let me let me reel that back in
just half a step.
I don't want to make it makethis too simplistic.
The best leaders are Areconstantly in a heads up, heads
down, heads up, heads down,because today does matter, but
they don't become encumbered bytoday, right, they don't let the
(12:34):
future be jeopardized by today.
So, ken and I actually wroteabout that a long, long time ago
that there is this tensionheads up, heads down.
Just, far too many leadersaren't spending enough time
heads up, they're not lookingtoward the future, and I would
argue that if you don't spendenough time thinking about the
future, there may not be one foryou or for your organization.
(12:55):
And so if I'm giving somebodyan advice, some advice, I would
say they need to be carving outsome time to think about the
future.
Because this, this fundamental,is really about weaving those
threads of what you know to betrue with what you know needs to
be true, and and painting acompelling picture that you can
(13:16):
rally others to join you,because you can't do it by
yourself.
By the way, if you can do it byyourself, it's not much.
I always tell leaders I hopeyou're trying to do something
that's going to require you,plus others, hmm, and this first
fundamental gives you somethingTo share with others, a vision
to cast.
Doug Smith (13:37):
Yeah, and so if you actually take the time to put
your head up and get the vision,then there's the challenge of
how do you actually cast that ina compelling enough way and
consistently enough throughoutthe organization I think about I
don't know so many employeesyou had at Chick-fil-A, but when
true it, or someone at the tophas this vision, what are some
keys for leaders to actuallycast, kade that vision down to
where it's reaching the?
(13:58):
The guy at the Chick-fil-Acounter saying my pleasure.
Mark Miller (14:01):
All right.
So this is a great opportunityfor me to offer my standard
disclaimer.
I would encourage your audiencenot to misinterpret the brevity
of my response with themagnitude of that question.
We could talk the rest of thisepisode on on this single topic,
because communicating visioncascading vision is is a huge,
(14:22):
huge Responsibility andchallenge for leaders, but let
me give you a couple of quicktips so that we can talk about
some of the other fundamentals.
The first thing I would say isyou need, you need to be able to
share your hopes and dreams ina, in a form and a fashion that
is simple, clear and repeatable,like now.
(14:43):
You may be able, and should beable to elaborate on that.
I had a leader call me not longago and he said hey, I want to
share my vision with you.
He was actually working on hisculture and he read me the most
eloquent, beautiful, wellthought out, just it was.
It was, it was beautiful.
(15:05):
And I said listen, we finished.
And I said you need to laminatethat.
And he said really.
I said it's fantastic.
I said, however, you need threemore versions because what he
read me was several minutes long, and I said that's great.
I said now you need to write anelevator speech, write a
paragraph that represents that.
(15:26):
I said that'll be your second.
And I said, while you're headedin that direction, then you
need to figure out how do yousay it in a sentence or a phrase
.
See, far too many leaders startwith the the phrase, and all
they're doing is sloganeering.
There's no meat, there's nosubstance, there's no passion,
there's no, there's no truththere, it's just.
(15:47):
It's just a catchy phrase.
But because this guy had donethat hard work first, then I
said get you something.
Peter Drucker, the latemanagement and leadership Guru,
said this a hundred years ago,probably not quite, but a long
time ago.
He said if you can't put it ona t-shirt, you don't have it.
Yet you, that's that.
That's that little pithy way tohelp people get it and
(16:08):
understand it.
And he said okay, what's thefourth way?
I said now go back and do afull keynote.
So when you can totally unpackthis because what you read for
me was two or three or fourminutes you're going to be able
to talk about this for an hourand give examples and
illustrations and nuance and soforth and so on.
And so I think you it has to atsome point, though, be clear,
(16:29):
simple and repeatable.
So that's a lot to say.
The only other thing I'll sayis you then have to go to your
inner circle.
Be sure those are around.
You Understand it, because whenyou start casting it publicly,
the first thing when people havequestions, they're not going to
call you.
If you're the point leader,they're going to call their boss
or their boss's boss, and youdon't want them to say, well, I
(16:51):
don't know.
I heard it the first time.
You heard it, we, you know,we're all in this together.
We don't know, and so that'swhy cascading is so powerful.
But if you skip that innercircle, you're setting yourself
up for grief.
Doug Smith (17:04):
And well, thank you for sharing that, Martha.
That's a masterclass in visioncasting and communication.
I want to hit a few otherfoundations of the new book.
One that I love is values,results and relationships.
What this is such attention, Ithink, for so many leaders.
I know I am, you know,recovering people, Pleaser.
I want to make everyone happy.
I care more about relationshipsthan results, but the reality
(17:25):
is, as leaders were responsiblefor both, why.
Why is this one of thefoundations?
Mark Miller (17:31):
Well, let me, let me say it for most leaders, it's
going to be the mostchallenging of the fundamentals,
and the reason I say that withconfidence is I believe that
most leaders have a natural bias.
You've confessed yours.
My natural bias is more towardresults.
Now, there's a really smallpercentage of leaders I've done
(17:52):
a non scientific study over thelast 25 years and I'm guessing
they're probably 5% of leadersthat value both without any
extraordinary effort.
I don't like those leadersbecause leadership is easier for
them, but for me and you and awhole lot of other leaders, we
have to find a way to value bothbecause there's there's
(18:15):
tremendous power in that tension.
Jim Collins coined the phrasethe genius of the, and he found
this in highly successfulorganizations Gosh, that was
probably 20 years ago and hewould use an example like Toyota
.
When they said we're going toproduce high quality cars at low
(18:36):
cost, it's like, well, thatdoesn't make sense.
Well, there's power when youcan, when you can pursue things
that on the surface and fromtime to time, actually are in
oppositions.
The genius of the and well,valuing results and
relationships is a perfectexample of that, and the reason
it matters so much is that if,if you focus exclusively on
(18:58):
relationships, you're going tosuboptimize results.
But, by the same token, if Ifocus exclusively on results,
I'm going to suboptimize results.
So the way you maximizeperformance which is why we lead
right, we're trying toaccomplish something.
The goal is not leadership, thegoals performance, and the way
you maximize it is to value both.
(19:20):
That's why it matters.
Doug Smith (19:22):
Yeah, and I'm curious.
You know you confessed you'remore on the results side.
How had you had to grow?
How did you have to grow overthe course of your career to be
more focused on people than theresults?
Mark Miller (19:33):
Well, it's not a, it's not more people than
results.
It's to value both at a veryhigh level.
Because, see, a lot of folkswill say, and you didn't say
this?
But a lot of folks will say,well, I'm just trying to be
right in the middle.
I said, well then, you'repretty mediocre on both.
You actually need to value both.
It's like can you, can you getpassionate about both?
(19:54):
You value both.
You may not change yourhardwiring and the way you see
the world, but I think for me,and I would say for you and for
all the folks listening, I thinkit's a two step process and I
love the fact it's a two stepprocess because that's simple, I
can get my head around it, onewhich you and I have already
taken.
This first step, it's to ownyour bias.
(20:14):
Don't don't make excuses, don'thide, Don't be ashamed, don't
wish you were like somebody else.
It's like no no, you areuniquely made to be who you are.
Okay.
So let's start by honoring ourbias and owning it and saying,
yep, this is who I am.
Step two in the process is themoney step, and that is when you
(20:37):
compensate.
And I liken it to a leader thatwears glasses.
You wouldn't look at a leaderwho wears glasses and say
they're a lesser leader becausethey wear glasses.
I think you might say they'repretty smart because they
realized there was somethingthey didn't do, naturally well,
and they found the properprescription to compensate.
(20:58):
And so I tell leaders if you'remore results oriented, then you
have to find ways to compensateon the relationship side and
vice versa.
It's like dialing in theappropriate prescription what
kind of systems, what kind ofhabits, what kind of people do
you need to bring around you?
So I would encourage you to besure there are some people who
(21:19):
see the world differently onyour leadership team.
If we're not careful, we'llselect people just like us.
You'll have a bunch ofrelationship people.
You need some folks who valueresults on your leadership team
and I need some people who valuerelationships on mine.
So that's probably the simplestway.
And then you just have tofigure out how much of a
prescription.
How much compensation do youneed so that you can actually
(21:43):
value both?
Yeah?
Doug Smith (21:45):
that's so good.
I know this was a huge growtharea for me.
I'm my early 30s.
I remember I had theopportunity to have a lunch with
John Maxwell and I was askinghim about this and he just said,
doug, you have to make thedecision that you'll always love
people but not depend on theirlove and, for whatever reason,
that that was the statement thatI needed.
That kind of made me value bothand then balance that attention
(22:06):
well, and every time I'm aboutto have a hard conversation
around results, I remind myselfof, hey, I'm loving this person
and actually I'm loving them bybeing honest with them and
valuing results.
That was huge for my growth,and so thank you for sharing a
little bit about your journey to.
Yeah so, and the otherfoundation is embody a leader's
heart.
I love this.
(22:27):
Why is this important?
Mark Miller (22:29):
Okay, this is.
I mentioned earlier we were, wewere pushing two models
together.
So anybody who's read thesecret might remember that the
last Fundamental was embody thevalues.
And we've now changed thatbecause they're five heart
Habits that we think areactually below the waterline if
you go back to our iceberg.
(22:50):
That represent a leader's heart.
Why it's important.
If your heart's not right, noone cares about your skills and
there's probably somebodylistening who's got the skills
and they wonder why people won'tfollow them Because they
probably don't trust your heart.
And I'm not talking about don'tlie, don't cheat, don't steal
(23:11):
that all matters.
I'm talking about thosedistinctive marks on a leader's
life.
Leaders are different.
Leaders hunger for wisdom.
Leaders expect the best.
Leaders accept responsibility.
You see where this is going.
Those are the heart habits andthere are a few more that
leaders must Pursue and andultimately Make progress so that
(23:39):
people will trust you enough tofollow you.
Doug Smith (23:44):
Yeah, that's so good .
I know you have an assessmentwith the book on all of these,
but I'm curious you know how, asa leader, do I determine
whether or not I'm a leaderworth following or Get feedback
around that?
Mark Miller (23:54):
Well, you kind of see if people are following you.
Yes, I mean, I got a quoteDrucker one more time.
He said there are two tests ofa leader do they get results and
do they have followers?
Doug Smith (24:07):
Hmm.
Mark Miller (24:08):
If nobody's following it, john, you talk,
john.
John said this a hundred yearsago If you, if you, if you're
leading and you look over yourshoulder and nobody's following
you, you're just out taking awalk, right?
So I think it'll be.
It'll be pretty obvious ifYou've got heart issues.
(24:29):
But the good news is, withintention and effort, you can
change your heart and and youcan become a leader people want
to follow.
Doug Smith (24:40):
Yeah, and you close the book, and I love this.
You close the book withchallenging leaders to always
serve, and you know Servingleadership is a big topic, but
why did you close the book thatway?
Mark Miller (24:50):
Well, you know that part of what we're trying to do
here is is tell folks Uncommonleadership is the path to
uncommon greatness.
We didn't talk about that inthis interview, which is fine,
but a lot of leaders let me letme go back there for a second a
lot of leaders are pursuingcommon greatness, in essence,
(25:11):
their lighters leaning againstthe wrong wall, and Most of them
will tell you that once theyget to the top, it's not
fulfilling like they thought itwould be, it's not sustainable,
it's, it's fleeting, it's, it'sfocused on them.
Uncommon greatness is focusedon others and it and it will
(25:31):
last and it elicits greatnessfrom others and when you're
pursuing that type of greatness,it makes all the difference in
the world.
The path is uncommon leadershipand You'll know those leaders
because they're the ones thatare willing to serve.
Doug Smith (25:49):
Yeah, I love that.
Well, can you talk more about?
You know, obviously, wherepeople can get the book, but
then also the assessment thatyou've provided.
Mark Miller (25:56):
Yes, there is an assessment.
If you would text Uncommon tosix, six, eight, six, six, there
you go, and it's not one ofthose assessments that, when you
finish it, you'll think, well,I just wasted ten minutes of my
life that I'll never get back.
It's not one of those.
It's behaviorally based,dependent on your responses, and
(26:19):
it'll say, okay, based on whatyou said, here's some things
that we think would help you,and I'm really excited about it.
The early feedback has beenpositive.
We started sharing theassessment months before the
book came out, and so justreally even in the development
phase, we were trying to buildthat.
I had a fantastic team of abunch of really smart people.
(26:42):
We did interviews with leadersto figure out what are the right
areas to probe and whatquestions would maybe not be.
The answers aren't reallyobvious, but they're telling and
help, cause we all have our ownbias, and so we were trying to
build something that would getthrough that and around that and
add value to leaders, and soit's free.
(27:02):
I hope you'll take it andbenefit from it.
Doug Smith (27:06):
Yeah, and Mark, I know we were joking that.
You know you write a new bookevery three months, but, man,
you have so much rich leadershipcontent and I know you're
always thinking into the future.
What's on your heart right nowfor leaders, as you think, even
beyond this book, like what areyou dreaming about?
What do you see being down thepipe?
Mark Miller (27:21):
I've got two more in the works.
Doug Smith (27:23):
Of course you do Well.
Mark Miller (27:25):
One we've already invested about $4 million on the
research, and it's onorganizational change.
Conventional wisdom is that 70%of organizational change
efforts fail.
I mean, think about the cost,the human cost, the energy, the
(27:45):
emotions, the financialimplications.
Seven out of 10 change effortsfail, and in reality it may be
more than that.
We've done a global survey,talked to leaders all over, a
lot of work on that, so therewill be a book on organizational
change coming Then.
One more I'm really excitedabout is we are building a
(28:08):
leadership operating system.
We're gonna provide a path forleaders with three anchors One,
how do you become a betterleader.
Two, how do you improve teamperformance.
And three, how do youstrengthen your organization.
And that work is underway andshould be published.
(28:29):
It'll be published before thechange book.
It's slated to come out in 25.
So a lot of fun stuff in thepipeline.
Doug Smith (28:37):
And Mark, I'd love to hear you just talk a little
bit more about your why.
I think it was the firstinterview I asked you.
Somehow charity or generositycame up and you said a lot of
your generosity goes towardsleadership development
organizations.
You just talked about spending$4 million on research that'll
help make leaders better Like.
Why are you giving your lifeaway towards this vision of
reaching 100 million leaders?
Why is that so important andcompelling to you?
Mark Miller (28:59):
Well, I feel it's my personal calling and, as I
mentioned earlier I think Imentioned that I've retired from
Chick-fil-A, which is great.
That happened just a few monthsago and it was a fantastic run
and I'm so thankful for so manythings.
We don't have time to get intoall of that, but here's my point
of view, and this is I'm notthrowing shade at anybody who
(29:21):
sees this differently, but Ithink you can retire from a job.
I don't think you can retirefrom a calling, and so my
calling is unchanged, I believe,as best I can discern, I'm on
the planet to encourage andequip leaders to change their
world, and so I don't work atthe chicken anymore.
(29:42):
But those are sort of mystanding orders and I'm gonna
keep working on that until Idiscern that I'm supposed to do
something different.
Doug Smith (29:51):
Yeah, and I guess I would ask what's your advice?
I try to do the same thingwhere I'm at.
We have a podcast conference,all these different things.
You mentioned this vision ofreaching 100 million leaders.
You've blogged, you have apodcast books.
What have you found thegreatest way to actually help
equip and train leaders tochange the world?
What's been most fruitful foryou?
Mark Miller (30:09):
Well, let me say I don't know the answer to that, I
mean, but my daddy used to outfish me and I think there were
many reasons he would out fishme, and one is he'd put more
lines in the water than I would.
And I think the world we live in, I think some people want a
podcast and some people want abook, and some people want a
computer assisted learningmodule and some people want an
(30:31):
app and some people want ajournal and some people it's
like.
So we're going, we're going toserve a bunch of leaders.
We're going to have to put alot of hooks in the water Now
because of the scale of ourvision.
It will have a huge technologycomponent and we're building a
platform right now, thatoperating system that I
mentioned.
It will be available in anonline academy so that people
(30:56):
who want that form of learningcan access it, and that will be
the ticket to scale.
I mean, I'll still stand up anddo keynotes, but you're not
going to reach a hundred millionpeople doing keynotes.
You're not going to reach ahundred million people writing
books.
So, because of the magnitude ofthat vision, we will build over
time what I believe will be arobust technology platform.
Doug Smith (31:21):
Yeah, I love that vision of getting a bunch of
lines in the water.
I love, love, love that, as weclose, open ended Anything else
you want to leave or challengeleaders with today.
Mark Miller (31:31):
Well, I guess a challenge and then a footnote.
You know what you do matters.
I want to remind you what youdo matters.
Everything rises and falls onleadership.
We quote John one more time.
I mean he got that rightChurches and schools and
hospitals and families andchicken restaurants, and
(31:52):
everything rises and falls onleadership.
We are the strategic lever toliterally change the world.
Wow.
And so I want to continue toencourage you.
I know it's hard.
I had a CEO just recently.
I'd done a keynote for her as aworkshop for her senior leaders
like 10 leaders in the room andI got through.
The CEO was the first to speakand she said what you're talking
(32:16):
about sounds hard.
And I said all of you signed upfor a hard job.
There are much easier ways tomake a living.
Doug Smith (32:28):
It is hard.
Mark Miller (32:28):
We want to make it doable.
Hard, not destructive.
Hard, that's another talk foranother day.
But it is hard, and so that'swhy I want to be one more voice,
not only encouraging you, but Iwant to equip you so that you
can be successful.
So the footnote and I did this,I think, on our last show I
want to give everybody my cellnumber in case they want to
(32:49):
reach out.
That number is 678-612-8441.
Doug Smith (32:57):
Wow, and we'll include a link to the book.
We'll include his cell phonenumber and everything else that
we discussed in the show notes,so make sure you check those out
, mark.
Thank you again.
The third interview waswonderful.
Thank you for adding value tome.
I'm one of the 100 million thatyou're impacting in.
Hopefully we'll do this againsoon.
Great, doug, thank you verymuch.
You're welcome.
Well, leader, thank you so muchfor listening to my
conversation with Mark.
(33:18):
I hope that you enjoyed it asmuch as I did.
You can find ways to connectwith him and links to everything
that we discussed in the shownotes at l3leadership.
org/411And, as always, leader, I like
to end every episode with aquote, and today I'll quote
Rosalind Carter, who said this aleader takes people where they
want to go.
A great leader takes peoplewhere they don't necessarily
want to go, but ought to be.
(33:38):
I love that.
Well, leader, I say it everyepisode, but know that my wife
Laura and I love you.
We believe in you and don'tquit.
Keep leading.
The world desperately needsyour leadership.
We'll talk to you next episode.
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