June 17, 2025 • 35 mins
"He put me here to take care of them. This is what He wants me to do." These words capture the essence of Joann Gromowski's profound caregiving journey spanning nearly two decades as she cared for her father, aunt, and mother through various stages of illness and decline.
What does it truly mean to become a caregiver for aging parents? In this deeply moving conversation, Joann shares the raw realities of her experiences, from the practical challenges of managing dementia to the spiritual strength that sustained her through countless sleepless nights. Her story reveals how each caregiving situation demanded different approaches—her father with his heart condition, her aunt with multiple health issues including cancer and diabetes, and finally her mother with Alzheimer's.
The most illuminating insights come from Joann's hard-won wisdom about dementia care. Unlike children who build knowledge progressively, those with dementia lose capabilities in reverse. "You have to meet them where they're at and become part of their reality," she explains, rather than frustrating both yourself and your loved one by insisting on what used to be true. This profound shift in perspective transforms caregiving from a battle into an act of compassion.
Joann doesn't shy away from discussing the practical aspects either—the importance of having proper legal documents in place before they're needed, knowing where to find resources, and her number one regret: not asking for help sooner. For those currently navigating the caregiving journey or those who see it on their horizon, her advice serves as both comfort and practical guide.
Beyond the practical, this conversation explores how caregiving shapes us as people. Joann reflects on how God's purpose became clear through her service to family, even though she—a busy attorney with her own practice—was perhaps the least likely sibling to take on this role. The experience revealed strengths she didn't know she possessed and deepened her faith in profound ways.
What's your caregiving story? Whether you're currently supporting a loved one or preparing for that possibility, this episode offers both practical guidance and spiritual encouragement for one of life's most challenging yet meaningful journeys.
SHOW NOTES:
CLR’s website has a collection of articles on dementia and Alzheimer’s disease here: https://christianliferesources.com/medical-concerns/dementia-alzheimers-disease/
CLR also has a carefully curated Pro-Life 101 section on caregiving here: https://christianliferesources.com/caregiving/
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us Saturday, September 13, at Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School in Jackson, Wisconsin, for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic te
Find strength and courage in your faith at this year’s FEARLESS FAITH Conference. Inspired by Joshua 1:9, “Be strong and courageous,” join us Saturday, September 13, at Kettle Moraine Lutheran High School in Jackson, Wisconsin, for presentations on navigating life’s storms, understanding God’s peace, and engaging in crucial conversations about euthanasia, anorexia, abortion, prenatal genetic testing, and more. Hear powerful journeys of faith through loss and hope. Don’t miss this empowering event! $50 in person or $40 virtual. Register now: https://christianliferesources.com/resources/events/2025-conference/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
On today's episode put me here at this time.
He put me here to take care ofthem.
This is what he wants me to do.
I probably would have ran inthe other direction.
I would have been like I amgone.
You know I have other familymembers that could take care of
this, but knowing that Godtrusted me to do it played a
huge role.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
Welcome to the Life Challengespodcast from Christian Life
Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues, and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz, and I'mhere today with Pastor Bob
Fleischman, and today we have aspecial guest with us.
We have Joanne Gromowski withus.
Welcome, joanne.
Thank you for having me heretoday.
Well, we have you on today totalk about the role of a
caregiver and specifically,we're going to do an episode
(01:28):
today on the role of caregivingas it pertains to parents, but
really this topic can be used ina lot of different contexts too
.
Probably and we've touched onsome of these as well caretaking
for a disabled child and so onDo you want to tell us a little
(01:49):
bit about yourself and your roleas a caregiver?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, so I was a caregiver for both my mom and my
dad not as long for my dad butlonger for my mom.
I also was a caregiver for myaunt, who is my mom's twin
sister, so I had a lot ofexperience throughout the years.
Each case was so different.
My dad needed more help becausehe had a leaky heart valve, and
(02:18):
so I had to start taking moreof the role of mowing the lawn,
doing some of the heavy work,doing the snow shoveling for him
.
Once in a while it was moretaking the car keys away from
him because he would have anepisode while he was driving.
So it was stepping into thesedifferent roles that I was not
(02:41):
used to whatsoever.
After he passed away, I tookover for my aunt, and she was
completely different because shehad problems with diabetes, she
had cancer, she couldn't walk,she couldn't see, she couldn't
hear, and then dementia set in.
So there was a lot of extrawork with her, a lot of learning
(03:02):
that I had to do.
It kind of blindsided me,actually, the stuff that I could
not even imagine because itchanged from day to day.
And then, probably five yearsafter my aunt passed away, my
mom started having Alzheimer's.
She also had heart problems anddiabetes.
All of them were verystrong-willed, so trying to get
(03:25):
them to change their habits wasvery difficult.
With my mom, she was the typeof person that could never sit
down.
She never wanted anyone to helpher.
So trying to take things away,just little things like don't
iron anymore, because you leavethe ironing board on, you could
start a fire.
Don't cook Little things likethat that was her whole life.
(03:48):
It was very difficult trying totake things over from her.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So when you were in this role as a caregiver then
you said you took care of yourdad and then your aunt and then
your mom, so it was always justone person kind of at a time,
and then your mom.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So it was always just one person kind of at a time.
Yes, always just one person ata time.
So with my dad I always had mymom.
With my aunt I had my mom, butthen when it was just my mom, I
needed that extra help.
So I did enlist my daughter,who was old enough at the time,
and two of my brothers alsohelped a lot with my mom.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Did your aunt live with you or did you live with
your aunt?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yes, all three of us lived together at one point or
another my mom and dad at thesame time, and then my aunt
moved in after my dad passedaway.
So it was a lot easier that waythan trying to go back and
forth between houses and takecare of two houses at once
rather than just one house.
(04:49):
Plus, I was also a single momby the time my aunt needed help.
I think it makes it easier whenyou live with the person.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, you talked about some of the challenges you
had with the I guess,strong-willed people that you
were taking care of.
I'm sure it's a family trait,though, so I'm sure you're also
very strong-willed.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
No, I could vouch for that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But what were some of the other challenges that you
experienced, or some of maybethe most challenging things that
you didn't really think ofbefore you started taking on
this role?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
you didn't really think of before you started
taking on this role.
I think I didn't know muchabout dementia, on Alzheimer's,
so that was a big challenge justseeing the personality traits
change.
And the biggest thing that Ilearned from my aunt was you're
not going to change her opinion,you have to meet her where
she's at.
We talk about that a lot withNew Beginnings, but you have to
meet her where she's at andbecome part of her opinion.
You have to meet her whereshe's at.
We talk about that a lot withNew Beginnings, but you have to
(05:45):
meet her where she's at andbecome part of her reality.
And I think that was a problemfor my mom helping take care of
hers, because my mom, being hertwin sister, could not accept.
You know, hey, you're alwayswrong.
You're not seeing this the wayit is when I was more like okay,
so there's people in yourbedroom right now and that's why
(06:07):
you can't go to sleep.
Okay, well, let's try sleepingout here in the chair, the
recliner chair, and justwhatever she wanted to tell me.
I just listened like it was anice story going on, but I
wasn't going to tell her she'swrong.
And I was lucky with herbecause she couldn't walk, being
so strong will.
(06:28):
She really wanted to leave, andI know that's a huge problem
even in nursing homes, whereindividuals don't understand
that they have something wrongand they just want to get up and
leave and do what they want.
So in some sense having some ofthe disabilities that my aunt
had helped, because otherwise Iwould have been chasing her down
the street Learning just toaccept them where their reality
(06:53):
was was a big one.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And did you learn this stuff trial and error, or
were you also trying to consumeI don't know information on
websites or books, or how wereyou gaining the information you
got?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
With my aunt, I started reaching out to
different organizations.
So I would reach out to thediabetes, I'd reach out to
cancer, I'd reach out to thedementia and I would see what
kind of information that theyhad, what kind of groups that
they had.
I was also lucky because aspart of my job I also handle
(07:29):
elder law, so I got a lot ofinformation just from my clients
what was going on.
Also, aging and disabilityorganization with the government
.
They have a lot of informationtoo that I was very impressed
with because for me it wasalways okay I'm helping someone
file a Medicaid application.
(07:49):
I didn't realize how muchinformation they had out there
at the government level to helpindividuals, even if it's just
local organizations that gottogether.
Also, senior centers I startedgiving seminars at senior
centers and I didn't realize howmuch information they and
seeing how many organizationsthey have of meetings with
(08:29):
Facebook they might have Zoom orjust having people talk about
the different issues that theirfamilies have.
So that's kind of nice, even ifyou can't get out that, you can
get this information in yourhouse or have a meeting or just
to get together.
You know everyone's sittingaround their computer drinking
coffee, just talking to eachother.
So there's a ton oforganizations out there now
(08:52):
that's willing to help, nomatter what type of disability
that you have.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
When we get inquiries at the national office for CLR
on somebody having to do eldercare, the first thing we always
send them to is their countydepartment of aging, because
that's usually a good place tostart.
We are here in WashingtonCounty, you're in Dodge, right?
I'm in Dodge and I'm in Fond duLac too, Okay, so I don't know
what they're like, but theWashington County one is a very
(09:18):
good one here in Wisconsin but Iknow it changes or it varies
around the United States.
But we always tell them to gothere and to the senior center.
Those are the two that, andusually you find somebody there
who then gives you the tentaclesto reach out into other.
Because one of the problemsthat we get is usually the
inquiry comes to us by phonecall, which means they don't use
(09:40):
email, they don't use theinternet.
Joanne and I have talkedsometimes about in our work as
an attorney with your clientsand how some of them aren't on
the Internet.
That's kind of what they haveto rely on.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You mentioned being a single mom, and you mentioned a
little bit about work and stufftoo.
So how does one balance all ofthat?
Does one balance all of that?
Your?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
own family, parenting kids and a job and taking care
of someone, yeah.
So I would say I'm lucky justbecause I do work for myself so
I can make the hours that I needto make.
And that was part of startingup my law firm again was I was
taking over this role where Iknew if I was working for a
different employer it would notwork.
There was no way that they weregiving me off all those hours
that I would need and letting mekind of schedule things the way
(10:33):
I needed it.
So that part worked out verywell.
It was again great to haveeveryone in the same household.
It also opened up the fact thatI could schedule things to go
ahead and be at every activitythat my daughter had when she
was younger and I want to sayit's very difficult for other
individuals that don't have thattrying to balance everything
(10:56):
With my mom though you knowlater on it was more taking her
out for a walk in the wheelchair, you know, down the block or
something like that.
That helped me get out kind ofclear my mind, where I knew she
was just sitting there and Ididn't have to go run here, run
there If she was into something.
I had to watch her.
She was right there in front ofme but I got to go take her for
(11:18):
a walk down the street.
So just trying to adjust littlethings and also making sure
that the family is involved.
With my mom, as I said, I had mybrothers two of them and I had
my daughter also helping.
So we all kind of took time andif I knew I was having a bad
day or I knew I had a lot ofwork going on, it was like the
(11:40):
first thing I did was say I needhelp.
And that's one of the things Iregret with my aunt is not
seeking out more help at thetime, because, with her being up
all night and trying to workduring the day and take my
daughter to school andeverything else, I was exhausted
.
I just took cat naps all thetime.
I would purposely go pick mydaughter up 10 minutes early so
(12:01):
I could just sleep in the carfor 10 minutes.
That's that's how it was, youknow, and I was doing work in
the middle of night.
So I think the biggest thing ismaking sure that you take care
of yourself, finding time foryourself just to get your mind,
your emotions, all that settledbefore taking care of someone
else too, and counting on peopleI mean people that I didn't
(12:24):
even think to even ask theneighbors would come over and
cut the lawn for me, littlethings like that.
It makes a huge difference.
And I think also, if I didn'tgo out and ask my brothers, they
were under that assumption that, oh, everything's okay when she
asks, that's when she needshelp.
Where beginning, I was like whyare they not just helping me?
(12:49):
They should know this alreadyand they don't.
Again, I was lucky enough tohave one of my brothers live
with us for a couple monthsbecause he used to travel around
the country and he was movinginto a new place and he's like,
oh, I need a place to stay for awhile.
I'm like, oh, you just upstairs.
We got another room and I thinkthat was it.
He was like, wow, I did notknow how tough it was or how
(13:12):
much you had to do, so when hefound out, he started talking to
my other brother, saying, yeah,I think I need to move back to
Wisconsin and just help, and Ithink that's it is just getting
the family in there to help youright away or whatever you need.
Asking for help sometimes isthe hardest but, it is the best
(13:32):
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
That's such an interesting perspective too,
that you have, having gonethrough it with maybe wishing
okay, I should have asked formore help, and then going
through it where you got morehelp and seeing the difference
that that makes Because I thinkthat would be true for a lot of
people that you kind of wouldjust sit there and be like why
is no one helping me?
(13:54):
And you maybe want to ask, butyou maybe don't know how well it
would be received either.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Well, and then a lot of times people will offer to
help and there are times whenyou don't need it and then they
may misunderstand it as well.
You know, she just wants to doher thing.
You know, and I mean I get thata lot because I'm a tad on the
OCD side and so a certain way Iload the dishwasher, a certain
way I clean the kitchen, acertain way I do the laundry,
and so when people offer to helpit's kind of like no, no, don't
help me.
I got this.
But my mother of course mothershave the way of getting it best
(14:28):
figured out and my mother justturned 87 and she's my number
one helper in caring for Diane.
Because my mom will always sayyou need me, just tell me and
I'll drop everything, come over,and it helps that she lives
next door.
So that works.
But it is important.
But I think my problem was Isometimes telegraphed the signal
(14:49):
that I don't want help.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
What would your advice be to somebody who maybe
does need some help but doesn'tknow how to ask for it?
Maybe knows that they need help, but maybe doesn't understand
what help they need?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, that's a good question.
For me it was trying to give uplittle things for people to do
because I kept thinking, oh, Ican handle it all, I don't need
the help and stuff like that.
And then when I realized it,that was it.
I'm like, well, what do I needhelp doing?
Okay, well, I just might needyou to take them to a doctor's
appointment, that's it.
(15:26):
I can be on the phone with youwhile you're at the doctor so I
can hear everything.
But I just need that little bit.
Or I just need an hour for meto just go out and walk or go
shopping.
Sometimes it's just the babysteps first, you know not I need
24-hour care.
Sometimes it's just makinglittle baby steps, you know, and
(15:47):
seeing, yeah, I do need someoneto cut the lawn because then I
can do this, I don't have toworry about it.
It's just that first step ofjust finding maybe the small
things that someone can help youwith and then kind of just
letting it grow on there,because as time goes on, you're
going to be spending so muchmore time doing the caretaking
part that you probably will needhelp more and more of what you
(16:10):
normally do, even as it gets tolater on where I needed help
lifting my mom up sometimes orjust getting her into the shower
and out and maybe it was my twobrothers.
After she had her last hipsurgery they were like, yeah,
she can't get into the bathtub,we cannot keep lifting her in
(16:33):
and out of these chairs.
We're coming in and we'reredoing your whole bathroom for
you.
So I mean it kind of just grew,what do you need help with?
And it would just be littlethings.
And then it just kind of keptgrowing bigger and bigger.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
You became quite veteran by the time you were
taking on your mom.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I did, I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I met Joanne when you worked the caregiver for your
mother.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I met her once the first time you brought her in
the car and I met her the onetime there.
But you and I talked a lot onthe phone and you would talk
about some of that.
I mean, I always was impressedtalking with you because you
took it in stride.
One of the problems that youhave with your job, I would
imagine, is it's hard to getsomebody to help you at your job
(17:19):
.
You know, at least I have theadvantage at CLR my staff pulls
together for me.
I mean there's kind of like acircle, an impenetrable circle
around me that they try to makesure only the important calls,
the very important calls, getthrough and stuff, and so that
works very well.
But you didn't have that,because I remember you would
tell me that you always blockedout Friday.
(17:41):
It was your day to you knowoffices closed on Friday, but
then it never really was.
So that's always the problemyou have when you're by yourself
, even in that position.
But I was always impressed.
You're always wonderfully calm.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You know, that's one of the things.
You've got to kind of stay calm, because you know that the
person that you're taking careof, if they feel you're frazzled
and stuff like that, theyeasily get frazzled, which makes
your job even harder to takecare of them you start to think,
okay, I am getting frazzled, Ijust need to walk out in the
back deck right now, just take amoment, take a breath and go.
(18:18):
Okay, what's really important?
Let's just focus on that andcome back and look at a new
strategy, because one of thethings that you learned, at
least with dementia, is thatyou're so used to like children
who start building on theirknowledge, and with dementia,
it's the other way around.
They're losing their knowledgeso something that they knew how
(18:40):
to do an hour ago.
They now they're losing theirknowledge so something that they
knew how to do an hour ago,they now don't know how to do.
And sometimes that just you'rejust like but you knew it, you
knew this an hour ago, you know,we just talked about it and you
got to realize that no, they'renot like a little kid where
every day, their knowledge isgetting better.
It's the opposite.
So then you just accept thatand you go okay, yep, just
(19:05):
remember.
They don't remember that.
They don't remember how to doit.
They're not doing it to get youmad or because they don't want
to.
It's truly that they just don'thave that knowledge anymore.
And every day was kind of thathurdle where you just go okay,
what are they going to know,what are they not going to know?
Even just little things liketrying to get to the doctor's
appointments.
The time it took from thebeginning was pretty short.
(19:25):
You know, let's get dressed,let's get going.
The time that at the end it waslike I could start two hours in
advance and I still might befive minutes late, when I might
have left 15, 20 minutes earlierthan what I normally do.
I still could be five minuteslate because of just what they
could or could not do, or got tostop for the bathroom 10 times
(19:48):
before you get to the doctor.
Lots of different things.
So, yeah, you just got to keeptaking it as it is and accept it
and say, okay, this is how itis, this is reality and just go
with it.
You can't say, but it was ishow it is, this is reality and
just go with it.
You can't say, but it was likethis yesterday.
It was much better.
No, this is what today givesyou.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
In working with your clients, because I know you have
a number of retired elderclients.
What did you learn from them?
I mean, did you oftentimes goto visit somebody and you can
see, wow, that's really working?
I'm going to have to try that,or that's a train wreck.
I'm staying away from makingthat mistake.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know I did learn a lot.
Sometimes it was just when Isee the client's child argue
with them and I'm like, hey, youknow, I would just talk to them
and say you need to just kindof step back and take it how it
is.
They're not trying to get youmad about this.
But I did learn more from theparents themselves that just
(20:52):
started to go through it, likelittle things that they would
say you know, this is workingfor me.
I know that I'm losing mymemory and this is how I do
things to help myself out.
Maybe it was having a list,like a piece of paper, for them
to write down things that theywanted to remember during the
day.
Or note this is where I keep mycar keys.
(21:16):
There'd be a board Okay, thisis where I put my car keys last,
or something like that.
Not that you want to use carkeys as an example.
If they're that bad, youprobably want to start taking
the car keys away.
But I think that was one of themost interesting things was just
having this sheet of paper thatthey could write on questions
(21:37):
that might go through the day,or they really wanted to watch
this TV show.
It kind of helped them organizeit too.
So I did use that with my mom,where she kept her own notebook
and would write things down asthe day went on.
And my mom was very differenttoo though A lot of people with
dementia don't know that they'rehaving it where my mom was
(21:59):
always like my mind isn'tworking and I don't know why, so
that's kind of the hardestthing to explain where other
people they just they don't knowthat they have an issue.
But that notebook, I think thatwas one of the lifesavers with
my mom, so she could write itdown and I never would have
thought of that.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
How important Joanne was routine, doing everything
the same.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Not so much with my mom.
When she got dementia more intoit her attitude completely
changed.
Where she used to love routineI mean she was a housekeeper,
homemaker for all of us kids andshe went opposite.
She was like I want to travel,I want to do this and that, and
(22:47):
it was just like every day itwas something different.
My aunt routine was veryimportant.
For a long time we had to havechicken every single day because
that was a routine.
And then one day she decidedshe didn't like chicken.
She never liked chicken, buthers was definitely morning.
You got to get her up at thistime.
She has to watch these shows,she has to eat certain foods by
(23:10):
her choice.
So she was very much rigidroutine.
My mom not so much.
She'd be like I want to stay uptill two o'clock and watch TV
and then the next day she's likeI want to go to bed at 10.
So just different.
Each person was so different.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah, it really sounds like that, that there's
so much difference there, and sowhat would your advice be to
somebody who's going to take on,or maybe considering taking on,
this role of caregiving?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I would seek out a lot of advice, whatever
disability they have.
I would research that andcontact organizations before you
ever consider it.
Talk to people that are doingcaretaking.
Talk to the doctors and nurses.
Ask a lot of questions.
Go talk to Aging and Disabilityor Health and Human Services.
(24:08):
Talk to the Senior Center.
I'd say get as much advice aspossible before you decide.
Yes, I know sometimes you don'thave that time, you don't have
the luxury to make that decision.
But also make sure that youhave people there already in
place that are going to help you.
Talk to your siblings or hiresomeone or neighbors, whatever
(24:33):
it is.
Make sure you have that groupin place for you ahead of time
and asking questions.
One of the things that Irecently have been telling my
clients I should say the lastfew years is make sure that you
have your legal documents inplace, because once they no
longer can sign for their powersof attorney for finance or
(24:56):
healthcare or the HIPAA law,that just means that you're
going to have to go to court andbecome the guardian and you
don't want to have to go tocourt to make those decisions.
So make sure they haveeverything in place ahead of
time, especially the HIPAA one.
Normally that falls in thehealthcare power of attorney,
but I've been telling people toget that separately, now only
(25:18):
because maybe the healthcarepower of attorney doesn't need
to be activated, maybe they arestill capacitated.
But that HIPAA document if yousign a separate one that will
allow the caretaker to talk tothe doctors, get information,
make appointments, all thatstuff without having a health
care power of attorney activated, because by law they don't have
(25:40):
to do that, they don't have totalk to you.
If there's a reaction to themedication, they don't have to
talk to you about it because thehealthcare hasn't been
activated, but with the HIPAAthey're allowed to.
So that's one of the documentsthat I've added to my list that
definitely should have separatethan the healthcare power of
attorney.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Well, and that HIPAA thing, I mean it's amazing how
many people think well, becauseyou're a spouse, you know, and
that isn't.
You know.
I should know.
You know we have the Christianmedical directive here, and yet
when I had to take over more ofDiane's care and I would ask
them about something, they wouldgo.
We don't have anything herethat shows, and you know,
(26:22):
fortunately Diane can still makesome decisions.
So then we got that taken careof, but it caught me off guard
and of course you grow to hateHIPAA, you know when you're
trying to get something done,you know and you can't, but
that's incredibly valuable, Ithink, to get that taken care of
early on.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
What role has your faith played in caregiving?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Huge.
When I would go outside and Ineeded my moments, that was the
one thing I'm doing.
I was like, okay, god, give mesome patience, direct me what
I'm supposed to be doing.
Where should I be going?
What should I be saying?
I was always talking, I think,without having faith in God,
knowing that, hey, he put mehere at this time.
(27:07):
He put me here to take care ofthem.
This is what he wants me to do.
I probably would have ran inthe other direction.
I would have been like I amgone.
I have other family membersthat could take care of this,
but knowing that God trusted meto do it played a huge role.
Knowing that, yep, he's righthere with me through this whole
(27:28):
thing.
I have someone to talk to.
He's answering me in differentways, but, yeah, I can't imagine
people that don't have God intheir life.
What are they thinking?
Who do they depend on?
When I needed help, I was justlike, okay, I need help, god,
yeah, he would send a neighborover to cut the grass.
I was like, okay, so, yeah,having God is very important.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
How many years total were you a caregiver?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
With my dad.
I want to say 2002 to 2005.
My aunt was probably 2006 to2014.
My mom was around 2018 to 2024.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Wow, that's a long time.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And they're all different.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, well, here's a question I don't think I've ever
asked on the podcast before,but I mean, do you regret it at?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
all.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
No, and would you have done anything differently?
I would have asked for helpsooner.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
That would probably be my one big thing.
I think with my aunt I probablywould have took off a little
bit more time for myself.
I think you really appreciatethings.
I think I appreciated my familymore.
It brought our family togethermore, especially with my mom, so
that was very nice.
(28:57):
It also taught me a lot, sothat I could teach my clients
things and tell them therereally wasn't anything other
than asking for help more.
There really wasn't anythingother than asking for help more.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
When you were younger , joanne, did you see yourself
as a caregiver someday?
I mean, was it the kind ofthing that?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
No, no, so if you look at my family, I have four
brothers.
One is a nurse and then I'm alawyer.
One did more like buildinghouses, things like that.
He had his own business.
One worked at the post officeand one fixes stuff for hospital
(29:36):
machinery and stuff like that.
So if you look at all five ofus, the first person they would
say is the nurse.
The nurse would be the personright, that would be the brother
.
They would do it.
He was the last one actuallythat could do this, and part of
(29:56):
it was I don't think he couldjust do it for his parents, he
could do it as a profession.
But that was it.
But everyone else would havesaid you as a lawyer would be
the last person, even though I'mfemale lawyer would be the last
person, even though I'm female.
They would be like oh, you'retoo business orientated, you're
working 60 hours a week.
This is not your cup of teakind of thing and I probably
(30:17):
would have agreed with them.
So for me to take over it wasdefinitely different.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
What did you learn about yourself doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
What did you learn about yourself doing this?
That I could do it?
I have gag reflexes when itcomes to bodily fluids.
I'm not going to tell you I hadto get past that.
Like that was probably thebiggest thing where it was just
like I can't do that.
Like I cannot clean someone up,I can't give them a shot for
(30:51):
their diabetes, like it was justall sorts of different things.
I mean.
That's why I didn't go tomedical school.
I can't do any of that.
So that was the thing that Ilearned I actually could do it,
I actually have patience, andjust God gave me all that along
the way, because I don't think Ihad it before I started.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You learn what it means to be committed to someone
, even when it's not always funand I think people have to.
You know it's sometimes hard.
You know when I talk about likefrom a husband and wife
relationship or a parental childrelationship.
You know we always talk aboutaffection as being kind of a
rewarding experience.
(31:29):
You know I love you, you loveme, I say please, you say thank
you.
So what happens with dementiaor something like that, where
you don't get the responses backor signs of affection, and then
you find out that kind of moreof the agape love, you know that
my love for you is also one ofcommitment.
It doesn't have to always berewarding or fun, but in that
(31:51):
process, at least for me, Ithink it made me a better person
.
I haven't met a caregiver thatdidn't seem better after the
experience.
They were all worn out for awhile, but they were better.
I mean better people.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
How was it?
I mean the transition foryourself, like caregiving for so
many years, to now not doing it.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah.
So after my mom passed away, Iwas kind of just.
I was like, wow, I have no oneto take care of anymore.
My daughter moved out, my mompassed away.
I'm like, what do I do withmyself?
I think that was the firstthing.
It was just like, okay, nowwhat do I do with myself?
(32:40):
And of course God filled thatin for me right away.
But it is.
It's kind of hard.
I think the other part that'shard is, you know, I was so used
to being able to have my momthere all those years, you know,
and you want to come home andbe like, hey, you know, this
happened today.
That happened today.
And I'm like, well, I guess I'mtelling the dog the story,
(33:02):
because you know it's a hugechange and I want to say like it
was a weight off my shouldersor anything like that, because
it really wasn't, but it wasjust a different change, a
different season of life that Ihad to get used to.
Now you don't think about it.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
The after part I think yeah, I can definitely see
that, because when you're in it.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's probably so taxing at times that and
consuming that you don't thinkabout what it would be like
without it.
I've enjoyed the benefit of youbeing well-seasoned in all this
, joanne, because on occasionI've had to cry on her shoulder
about things I'm doing and shejust would always say, oh yeah,
I've been there, done that.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you.
It sounds like you have awealth of knowledge on this
topic and we really appreciateyou sharing with us today about
this.
Oh thank you for having me andwe thank all of our listeners
for joining us, and if you haveany questions on this topic or
any others, you can reach us atlifechallengesus and we look
(34:09):
forward to having you back nexttime.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life
Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
you to know we're here to help.
(34:35):
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(34:56):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
On today's episode put me here at this time.
He put me here to take care ofthem.
This is what he wants me to do.
I probably would have ran inthe other direction.
I would have been like I amgone.
You know I have other familymembers that could take care of
this, but knowing that Godtrusted me to do it played a
huge role.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Life Challenges podcast from
Christian Life Resources.
Welcome to the Life Challengespodcast from Christian Life
Resources.
People today face manyopportunities and struggles when
it comes to issues of life anddeath, marriage and family,
health and science.
We're here to bring a freshbiblical perspective to these
issues, and more.
Join us now for Life Challenges.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Hi and welcome back.
I'm Krista Potratz, and I'mhere today with Pastor Bob
Fleischman, and today we have aspecial guest with us.
We have Joanne Gromowski withus.
Welcome, joanne.
Thank you for having me heretoday.
Well, we have you on today totalk about the role of a
caregiver and specifically,we're going to do an episode
(01:28):
today on the role of caregivingas it pertains to parents, but
really this topic can be used ina lot of different contexts too
.
Probably and we've touched onsome of these as well caretaking
for a disabled child and so onDo you want to tell us a little
(01:49):
bit about yourself and your roleas a caregiver?
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, so I was a caregiver for both my mom and my
dad not as long for my dad butlonger for my mom.
I also was a caregiver for myaunt, who is my mom's twin
sister, so I had a lot ofexperience throughout the years.
Each case was so different.
My dad needed more help becausehe had a leaky heart valve, and
(02:18):
so I had to start taking moreof the role of mowing the lawn,
doing some of the heavy work,doing the snow shoveling for him
.
Once in a while it was moretaking the car keys away from
him because he would have anepisode while he was driving.
So it was stepping into thesedifferent roles that I was not
(02:41):
used to whatsoever.
After he passed away, I tookover for my aunt, and she was
completely different because shehad problems with diabetes, she
had cancer, she couldn't walk,she couldn't see, she couldn't
hear, and then dementia set in.
So there was a lot of extrawork with her, a lot of learning
(03:02):
that I had to do.
It kind of blindsided me,actually, the stuff that I could
not even imagine because itchanged from day to day.
And then, probably five yearsafter my aunt passed away, my
mom started having Alzheimer's.
She also had heart problems anddiabetes.
All of them were verystrong-willed, so trying to get
(03:25):
them to change their habits wasvery difficult.
With my mom, she was the typeof person that could never sit
down.
She never wanted anyone to helpher.
So trying to take things away,just little things like don't
iron anymore, because you leavethe ironing board on, you could
start a fire.
Don't cook Little things likethat that was her whole life.
(03:48):
It was very difficult trying totake things over from her.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
So when you were in this role as a caregiver then
you said you took care of yourdad and then your aunt and then
your mom, so it was always justone person kind of at a time,
and then your mom.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
So it was always just one person kind of at a time.
Yes, always just one person ata time.
So with my dad I always had mymom.
With my aunt I had my mom, butthen when it was just my mom, I
needed that extra help.
So I did enlist my daughter,who was old enough at the time,
and two of my brothers alsohelped a lot with my mom.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Did your aunt live with you or did you live with
your aunt?
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Yes, all three of us lived together at one point or
another my mom and dad at thesame time, and then my aunt
moved in after my dad passedaway.
So it was a lot easier that waythan trying to go back and
forth between houses and takecare of two houses at once
rather than just one house.
(04:49):
Plus, I was also a single momby the time my aunt needed help.
I think it makes it easier whenyou live with the person.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Yeah, you talked about some of the challenges you
had with the I guess,strong-willed people that you
were taking care of.
I'm sure it's a family trait,though, so I'm sure you're also
very strong-willed.
Speaker 4 (05:08):
No, I could vouch for that.
Speaker 3 (05:13):
But what were some of the other challenges that you
experienced, or some of maybethe most challenging things that
you didn't really think ofbefore you started taking on
this role?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
you didn't really think of before you started
taking on this role.
I think I didn't know muchabout dementia, on Alzheimer's,
so that was a big challenge justseeing the personality traits
change.
And the biggest thing that Ilearned from my aunt was you're
not going to change her opinion,you have to meet her where
she's at.
We talk about that a lot withNew Beginnings, but you have to
meet her where she's at andbecome part of her opinion.
You have to meet her whereshe's at.
We talk about that a lot withNew Beginnings, but you have to
(05:45):
meet her where she's at andbecome part of her reality.
And I think that was a problemfor my mom helping take care of
hers, because my mom, being hertwin sister, could not accept.
You know, hey, you're alwayswrong.
You're not seeing this the wayit is when I was more like okay,
so there's people in yourbedroom right now and that's why
(06:07):
you can't go to sleep.
Okay, well, let's try sleepingout here in the chair, the
recliner chair, and justwhatever she wanted to tell me.
I just listened like it was anice story going on, but I
wasn't going to tell her she'swrong.
And I was lucky with herbecause she couldn't walk, being
so strong will.
(06:28):
She really wanted to leave, andI know that's a huge problem
even in nursing homes, whereindividuals don't understand
that they have something wrongand they just want to get up and
leave and do what they want.
So in some sense having some ofthe disabilities that my aunt
had helped, because otherwise Iwould have been chasing her down
the street Learning just toaccept them where their reality
(06:53):
was was a big one.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
And did you learn this stuff trial and error, or
were you also trying to consumeI don't know information on
websites or books, or how wereyou gaining the information you
got?
Speaker 1 (07:08):
With my aunt, I started reaching out to
different organizations.
So I would reach out to thediabetes, I'd reach out to
cancer, I'd reach out to thedementia and I would see what
kind of information that theyhad, what kind of groups that
they had.
I was also lucky because aspart of my job I also handle
(07:29):
elder law, so I got a lot ofinformation just from my clients
what was going on.
Also, aging and disabilityorganization with the government
.
They have a lot of informationtoo that I was very impressed
with because for me it wasalways okay I'm helping someone
file a Medicaid application.
(07:49):
I didn't realize how muchinformation they had out there
at the government level to helpindividuals, even if it's just
local organizations that gottogether.
Also, senior centers I startedgiving seminars at senior
centers and I didn't realize howmuch information they and
seeing how many organizationsthey have of meetings with
(08:29):
Facebook they might have Zoom orjust having people talk about
the different issues that theirfamilies have.
So that's kind of nice, even ifyou can't get out that, you can
get this information in yourhouse or have a meeting or just
to get together.
You know everyone's sittingaround their computer drinking
coffee, just talking to eachother.
So there's a ton oforganizations out there now
(08:52):
that's willing to help, nomatter what type of disability
that you have.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
When we get inquiries at the national office for CLR
on somebody having to do eldercare, the first thing we always
send them to is their countydepartment of aging, because
that's usually a good place tostart.
We are here in WashingtonCounty, you're in Dodge, right?
I'm in Dodge and I'm in Fond duLac too, Okay, so I don't know
what they're like, but theWashington County one is a very
(09:18):
good one here in Wisconsin but Iknow it changes or it varies
around the United States.
But we always tell them to gothere and to the senior center.
Those are the two that, andusually you find somebody there
who then gives you the tentaclesto reach out into other.
Because one of the problemsthat we get is usually the
inquiry comes to us by phonecall, which means they don't use
(09:40):
email, they don't use theinternet.
Joanne and I have talkedsometimes about in our work as
an attorney with your clientsand how some of them aren't on
the Internet.
That's kind of what they haveto rely on.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
You mentioned being a single mom, and you mentioned a
little bit about work and stufftoo.
So how does one balance all ofthat?
Does one balance all of that?
Your?
Speaker 1 (10:10):
own family, parenting kids and a job and taking care
of someone, yeah.
So I would say I'm lucky justbecause I do work for myself so
I can make the hours that I needto make.
And that was part of startingup my law firm again was I was
taking over this role where Iknew if I was working for a
different employer it would notwork.
There was no way that they weregiving me off all those hours
that I would need and letting mekind of schedule things the way
(10:33):
I needed it.
So that part worked out verywell.
It was again great to haveeveryone in the same household.
It also opened up the fact thatI could schedule things to go
ahead and be at every activitythat my daughter had when she
was younger and I want to sayit's very difficult for other
individuals that don't have thattrying to balance everything
(10:56):
With my mom though you knowlater on it was more taking her
out for a walk in the wheelchair, you know, down the block or
something like that.
That helped me get out kind ofclear my mind, where I knew she
was just sitting there and Ididn't have to go run here, run
there If she was into something.
I had to watch her.
She was right there in front ofme but I got to go take her for
(11:18):
a walk down the street.
So just trying to adjust littlethings and also making sure
that the family is involved.
With my mom, as I said, I had mybrothers two of them and I had
my daughter also helping.
So we all kind of took time andif I knew I was having a bad
day or I knew I had a lot ofwork going on, it was like the
(11:40):
first thing I did was say I needhelp.
And that's one of the things Iregret with my aunt is not
seeking out more help at thetime, because, with her being up
all night and trying to workduring the day and take my
daughter to school andeverything else, I was exhausted
.
I just took cat naps all thetime.
I would purposely go pick mydaughter up 10 minutes early so
(12:01):
I could just sleep in the carfor 10 minutes.
That's that's how it was, youknow, and I was doing work in
the middle of night.
So I think the biggest thing ismaking sure that you take care
of yourself, finding time foryourself just to get your mind,
your emotions, all that settledbefore taking care of someone
else too, and counting on peopleI mean people that I didn't
(12:24):
even think to even ask theneighbors would come over and
cut the lawn for me, littlethings like that.
It makes a huge difference.
And I think also, if I didn'tgo out and ask my brothers, they
were under that assumption that, oh, everything's okay when she
asks, that's when she needshelp.
Where beginning, I was like whyare they not just helping me?
(12:49):
They should know this alreadyand they don't.
Again, I was lucky enough tohave one of my brothers live
with us for a couple monthsbecause he used to travel around
the country and he was movinginto a new place and he's like,
oh, I need a place to stay for awhile.
I'm like, oh, you just upstairs.
We got another room and I thinkthat was it.
He was like, wow, I did notknow how tough it was or how
(13:12):
much you had to do, so when hefound out, he started talking to
my other brother, saying, yeah,I think I need to move back to
Wisconsin and just help, and Ithink that's it is just getting
the family in there to help youright away or whatever you need.
Asking for help sometimes isthe hardest but, it is the best
(13:32):
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
That's such an interesting perspective too,
that you have, having gonethrough it with maybe wishing
okay, I should have asked formore help, and then going
through it where you got morehelp and seeing the difference
that that makes Because I thinkthat would be true for a lot of
people that you kind of wouldjust sit there and be like why
is no one helping me?
(13:54):
And you maybe want to ask, butyou maybe don't know how well it
would be received either.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
Well, and then a lot of times people will offer to
help and there are times whenyou don't need it and then they
may misunderstand it as well.
You know, she just wants to doher thing.
You know, and I mean I get thata lot because I'm a tad on the
OCD side and so a certain way Iload the dishwasher, a certain
way I clean the kitchen, acertain way I do the laundry,
and so when people offer to helpit's kind of like no, no, don't
help me.
I got this.
But my mother of course mothershave the way of getting it best
(14:28):
figured out and my mother justturned 87 and she's my number
one helper in caring for Diane.
Because my mom will always sayyou need me, just tell me and
I'll drop everything, come over,and it helps that she lives
next door.
So that works.
But it is important.
But I think my problem was Isometimes telegraphed the signal
(14:49):
that I don't want help.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
What would your advice be to somebody who maybe
does need some help but doesn'tknow how to ask for it?
Maybe knows that they need help, but maybe doesn't understand
what help they need?
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Yeah, that's a good question.
For me it was trying to give uplittle things for people to do
because I kept thinking, oh, Ican handle it all, I don't need
the help and stuff like that.
And then when I realized it,that was it.
I'm like, well, what do I needhelp doing?
Okay, well, I just might needyou to take them to a doctor's
appointment, that's it.
(15:26):
I can be on the phone with youwhile you're at the doctor so I
can hear everything.
But I just need that little bit.
Or I just need an hour for meto just go out and walk or go
shopping.
Sometimes it's just the babysteps first, you know not I need
24-hour care.
Sometimes it's just makinglittle baby steps, you know, and
(15:47):
seeing, yeah, I do need someoneto cut the lawn because then I
can do this, I don't have toworry about it.
It's just that first step ofjust finding maybe the small
things that someone can help youwith and then kind of just
letting it grow on there,because as time goes on, you're
going to be spending so muchmore time doing the caretaking
part that you probably will needhelp more and more of what you
(16:10):
normally do, even as it gets tolater on where I needed help
lifting my mom up sometimes orjust getting her into the shower
and out and maybe it was my twobrothers.
After she had her last hipsurgery they were like, yeah,
she can't get into the bathtub,we cannot keep lifting her in
(16:33):
and out of these chairs.
We're coming in and we'reredoing your whole bathroom for
you.
So I mean it kind of just grew,what do you need help with?
And it would just be littlethings.
And then it just kind of keptgrowing bigger and bigger.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
You became quite veteran by the time you were
taking on your mom.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
I did, I mean.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
I met Joanne when you worked the caregiver for your
mother.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
And.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
I met her once the first time you brought her in
the car and I met her the onetime there.
But you and I talked a lot onthe phone and you would talk
about some of that.
I mean, I always was impressedtalking with you because you
took it in stride.
One of the problems that youhave with your job, I would
imagine, is it's hard to getsomebody to help you at your job
(17:19):
.
You know, at least I have theadvantage at CLR my staff pulls
together for me.
I mean there's kind of like acircle, an impenetrable circle
around me that they try to makesure only the important calls,
the very important calls, getthrough and stuff, and so that
works very well.
But you didn't have that,because I remember you would
tell me that you always blockedout Friday.
(17:41):
It was your day to you knowoffices closed on Friday, but
then it never really was.
So that's always the problemyou have when you're by yourself
, even in that position.
But I was always impressed.
You're always wonderfully calm.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
You know, that's one of the things.
You've got to kind of stay calm, because you know that the
person that you're taking careof, if they feel you're frazzled
and stuff like that, theyeasily get frazzled, which makes
your job even harder to takecare of them you start to think,
okay, I am getting frazzled, Ijust need to walk out in the
back deck right now, just take amoment, take a breath and go.
(18:18):
Okay, what's really important?
Let's just focus on that andcome back and look at a new
strategy, because one of thethings that you learned, at
least with dementia, is thatyou're so used to like children
who start building on theirknowledge, and with dementia,
it's the other way around.
They're losing their knowledgeso something that they knew how
(18:40):
to do an hour ago.
They now they're losing theirknowledge so something that they
knew how to do an hour ago,they now don't know how to do.
And sometimes that just you'rejust like but you knew it, you
knew this an hour ago, you know,we just talked about it and you
got to realize that no, they'renot like a little kid where
every day, their knowledge isgetting better.
It's the opposite.
So then you just accept thatand you go okay, yep, just
(19:05):
remember.
They don't remember that.
They don't remember how to doit.
They're not doing it to get youmad or because they don't want
to.
It's truly that they just don'thave that knowledge anymore.
And every day was kind of thathurdle where you just go okay,
what are they going to know,what are they not going to know?
Even just little things liketrying to get to the doctor's
appointments.
The time it took from thebeginning was pretty short.
(19:25):
You know, let's get dressed,let's get going.
The time that at the end it waslike I could start two hours in
advance and I still might befive minutes late, when I might
have left 15, 20 minutes earlierthan what I normally do.
I still could be five minuteslate because of just what they
could or could not do, or got tostop for the bathroom 10 times
(19:48):
before you get to the doctor.
Lots of different things.
So, yeah, you just got to keeptaking it as it is and accept it
and say, okay, this is how itis, this is reality and just go
with it.
You can't say, but it was ishow it is, this is reality and
just go with it.
You can't say, but it was likethis yesterday.
It was much better.
No, this is what today givesyou.
Speaker 4 (20:08):
In working with your clients, because I know you have
a number of retired elderclients.
What did you learn from them?
I mean, did you oftentimes goto visit somebody and you can
see, wow, that's really working?
I'm going to have to try that,or that's a train wreck.
I'm staying away from makingthat mistake.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You know I did learn a lot.
Sometimes it was just when Isee the client's child argue
with them and I'm like, hey, youknow, I would just talk to them
and say you need to just kindof step back and take it how it
is.
They're not trying to get youmad about this.
But I did learn more from theparents themselves that just
(20:52):
started to go through it, likelittle things that they would
say you know, this is workingfor me.
I know that I'm losing mymemory and this is how I do
things to help myself out.
Maybe it was having a list,like a piece of paper, for them
to write down things that theywanted to remember during the
day.
Or note this is where I keep mycar keys.
(21:16):
There'd be a board Okay, thisis where I put my car keys last,
or something like that.
Not that you want to use carkeys as an example.
If they're that bad, youprobably want to start taking
the car keys away.
But I think that was one of themost interesting things was just
having this sheet of paper thatthey could write on questions
(21:37):
that might go through the day,or they really wanted to watch
this TV show.
It kind of helped them organizeit too.
So I did use that with my mom,where she kept her own notebook
and would write things down asthe day went on.
And my mom was very differenttoo though A lot of people with
dementia don't know that they'rehaving it where my mom was
(21:59):
always like my mind isn'tworking and I don't know why, so
that's kind of the hardestthing to explain where other
people they just they don't knowthat they have an issue.
But that notebook, I think thatwas one of the lifesavers with
my mom, so she could write itdown and I never would have
thought of that.
Speaker 4 (22:18):
How important Joanne was routine, doing everything
the same.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Not so much with my mom.
When she got dementia more intoit her attitude completely
changed.
Where she used to love routineI mean she was a housekeeper,
homemaker for all of us kids andshe went opposite.
She was like I want to travel,I want to do this and that, and
(22:47):
it was just like every day itwas something different.
My aunt routine was veryimportant.
For a long time we had to havechicken every single day because
that was a routine.
And then one day she decidedshe didn't like chicken.
She never liked chicken, buthers was definitely morning.
You got to get her up at thistime.
She has to watch these shows,she has to eat certain foods by
(23:10):
her choice.
So she was very much rigidroutine.
My mom not so much.
She'd be like I want to stay uptill two o'clock and watch TV
and then the next day she's likeI want to go to bed at 10.
So just different.
Each person was so different.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
Yeah, it really sounds like that, that there's
so much difference there, and sowhat would your advice be to
somebody who's going to take on,or maybe considering taking on,
this role of caregiving?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
I would seek out a lot of advice, whatever
disability they have.
I would research that andcontact organizations before you
ever consider it.
Talk to people that are doingcaretaking.
Talk to the doctors and nurses.
Ask a lot of questions.
Go talk to Aging and Disabilityor Health and Human Services.
(24:08):
Talk to the Senior Center.
I'd say get as much advice aspossible before you decide.
Yes, I know sometimes you don'thave that time, you don't have
the luxury to make that decision.
But also make sure that youhave people there already in
place that are going to help you.
Talk to your siblings or hiresomeone or neighbors, whatever
(24:33):
it is.
Make sure you have that groupin place for you ahead of time
and asking questions.
One of the things that Irecently have been telling my
clients I should say the lastfew years is make sure that you
have your legal documents inplace, because once they no
longer can sign for their powersof attorney for finance or
(24:56):
healthcare or the HIPAA law,that just means that you're
going to have to go to court andbecome the guardian and you
don't want to have to go tocourt to make those decisions.
So make sure they haveeverything in place ahead of
time, especially the HIPAA one.
Normally that falls in thehealthcare power of attorney,
but I've been telling people toget that separately, now only
(25:18):
because maybe the healthcarepower of attorney doesn't need
to be activated, maybe they arestill capacitated.
But that HIPAA document if yousign a separate one that will
allow the caretaker to talk tothe doctors, get information,
make appointments, all thatstuff without having a health
care power of attorney activated, because by law they don't have
(25:40):
to do that, they don't have totalk to you.
If there's a reaction to themedication, they don't have to
talk to you about it because thehealthcare hasn't been
activated, but with the HIPAAthey're allowed to.
So that's one of the documentsthat I've added to my list that
definitely should have separatethan the healthcare power of
attorney.
Speaker 4 (25:59):
Well, and that HIPAA thing, I mean it's amazing how
many people think well, becauseyou're a spouse, you know, and
that isn't.
You know.
I should know.
You know we have the Christianmedical directive here, and yet
when I had to take over more ofDiane's care and I would ask
them about something, they wouldgo.
We don't have anything herethat shows, and you know,
(26:22):
fortunately Diane can still makesome decisions.
So then we got that taken careof, but it caught me off guard
and of course you grow to hateHIPAA, you know when you're
trying to get something done,you know and you can't, but
that's incredibly valuable, Ithink, to get that taken care of
early on.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
What role has your faith played in caregiving?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Huge.
When I would go outside and Ineeded my moments, that was the
one thing I'm doing.
I was like, okay, god, give mesome patience, direct me what
I'm supposed to be doing.
Where should I be going?
What should I be saying?
I was always talking, I think,without having faith in God,
knowing that, hey, he put mehere at this time.
(27:07):
He put me here to take care ofthem.
This is what he wants me to do.
I probably would have ran inthe other direction.
I would have been like I amgone.
I have other family membersthat could take care of this,
but knowing that God trusted meto do it played a huge role.
Knowing that, yep, he's righthere with me through this whole
(27:28):
thing.
I have someone to talk to.
He's answering me in differentways, but, yeah, I can't imagine
people that don't have God intheir life.
What are they thinking?
Who do they depend on?
When I needed help, I was justlike, okay, I need help, god,
yeah, he would send a neighborover to cut the grass.
I was like, okay, so, yeah,having God is very important.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
How many years total were you a caregiver?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
With my dad.
I want to say 2002 to 2005.
My aunt was probably 2006 to2014.
My mom was around 2018 to 2024.
Speaker 4 (28:16):
Wow, that's a long time.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
And they're all different.
Speaker 3 (28:21):
Yeah, well, here's a question I don't think I've ever
asked on the podcast before,but I mean, do you regret it at?
Speaker 1 (28:30):
all.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
No, and would you have done anything differently?
I would have asked for helpsooner.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
That would probably be my one big thing.
I think with my aunt I probablywould have took off a little
bit more time for myself.
I think you really appreciatethings.
I think I appreciated my familymore.
It brought our family togethermore, especially with my mom, so
that was very nice.
(28:57):
It also taught me a lot, sothat I could teach my clients
things and tell them therereally wasn't anything other
than asking for help more.
There really wasn't anythingother than asking for help more.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
When you were younger , joanne, did you see yourself
as a caregiver someday?
I mean, was it the kind ofthing that?
Speaker 1 (29:15):
No, no, so if you look at my family, I have four
brothers.
One is a nurse and then I'm alawyer.
One did more like buildinghouses, things like that.
He had his own business.
One worked at the post officeand one fixes stuff for hospital
(29:36):
machinery and stuff like that.
So if you look at all five ofus, the first person they would
say is the nurse.
The nurse would be the personright, that would be the brother
.
They would do it.
He was the last one actuallythat could do this, and part of
(29:56):
it was I don't think he couldjust do it for his parents, he
could do it as a profession.
But that was it.
But everyone else would havesaid you as a lawyer would be
the last person, even though I'mfemale lawyer would be the last
person, even though I'm female.
They would be like oh, you'retoo business orientated, you're
working 60 hours a week.
This is not your cup of teakind of thing and I probably
(30:17):
would have agreed with them.
So for me to take over it wasdefinitely different.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
What did you learn about yourself doing this?
Speaker 1 (30:27):
What did you learn about yourself doing this?
That I could do it?
I have gag reflexes when itcomes to bodily fluids.
I'm not going to tell you I hadto get past that.
Like that was probably thebiggest thing where it was just
like I can't do that.
Like I cannot clean someone up,I can't give them a shot for
(30:51):
their diabetes, like it was justall sorts of different things.
I mean.
That's why I didn't go tomedical school.
I can't do any of that.
So that was the thing that Ilearned I actually could do it,
I actually have patience, andjust God gave me all that along
the way, because I don't think Ihad it before I started.
Speaker 4 (31:08):
You learn what it means to be committed to someone
, even when it's not always funand I think people have to.
You know it's sometimes hard.
You know when I talk about likefrom a husband and wife
relationship or a parental childrelationship.
You know we always talk aboutaffection as being kind of a
rewarding experience.
(31:29):
You know I love you, you loveme, I say please, you say thank
you.
So what happens with dementiaor something like that, where
you don't get the responses backor signs of affection, and then
you find out that kind of moreof the agape love, you know that
my love for you is also one ofcommitment.
It doesn't have to always berewarding or fun, but in that
(31:51):
process, at least for me, Ithink it made me a better person
.
I haven't met a caregiver thatdidn't seem better after the
experience.
They were all worn out for awhile, but they were better.
I mean better people.
Speaker 3 (32:10):
How was it?
I mean the transition foryourself, like caregiving for so
many years, to now not doing it.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah.
So after my mom passed away, Iwas kind of just.
I was like, wow, I have no oneto take care of anymore.
My daughter moved out, my mompassed away.
I'm like, what do I do withmyself?
I think that was the firstthing.
It was just like, okay, nowwhat do I do with myself?
(32:40):
And of course God filled thatin for me right away.
But it is.
It's kind of hard.
I think the other part that'shard is, you know, I was so used
to being able to have my momthere all those years, you know,
and you want to come home andbe like, hey, you know, this
happened today.
That happened today.
And I'm like, well, I guess I'mtelling the dog the story,
(33:02):
because you know it's a hugechange and I want to say like it
was a weight off my shouldersor anything like that, because
it really wasn't, but it wasjust a different change, a
different season of life that Ihad to get used to.
Now you don't think about it.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
The after part I think yeah, I can definitely see
that, because when you're in it.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
It's probably so taxing at times that and
consuming that you don't thinkabout what it would be like
without it.
I've enjoyed the benefit of youbeing well-seasoned in all this
, joanne, because on occasionI've had to cry on her shoulder
about things I'm doing and shejust would always say, oh yeah,
I've been there, done that.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you.
It sounds like you have awealth of knowledge on this
topic and we really appreciateyou sharing with us today about
this.
Oh thank you for having me andwe thank all of our listeners
for joining us, and if you haveany questions on this topic or
any others, you can reach us atlifechallengesus and we look
(34:09):
forward to having you back nexttime.
Thanks a lot, bye.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Life
Challenges podcast fromChristian Life Resources.
Please consider subscribing tothis podcast, giving us a review
wherever you access it andsharing it with friends.
We're sure you have questionson today's topic or other life
issues.
Our goal is to help you throughthese tough topics and we want
you to know we're here to help.
(34:35):
You can submit your questions,as well as comments or
suggestions for future episodes,at lifechallengesus or email us
at podcast atchristianliferesourcescom.
In addition to the podcasts, weinclude other valuable
information at lifechallengesus,so be sure to check it out.
(34:56):
For more about our parentorganization, please visit
christianliferesourcescom.
May God give you wisdom, love,strength and peace in Christ for
every life challenge.
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