August 28, 2024 • 23 mins
Introducing Dr Natasha Davison, a high performance coach, psychologist and bestselling author. A very real chat about her vulnerability in her industry and making the change in her career.
Website: drnatashadavison.com.au
Facebook: natasha.davison
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Website: merilyn.com
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Merilyn (00:00):
Hello, welcome to the Merilyn Show.
If we've not met, hi, I'mMerilyn, and today I'm talking
with Dr.
Natasha Davison.
Natasha (00:10):
I felt so vulnerable and exposed and it was really a
scary thing for me to do.
Merilyn (00:17):
She's a psychologist based in Australia who has
recently tweaked her career.
She discovered that she lovedworking with the high
performers.
This is a very raw and realchat about her making that
change, but also what it mighttake for us to make those kinds
(00:41):
of changes in our lives.
Welcome to the show, Natasha.
Natasha (00:45):
Hi everyone, so lovely to be here and be with you all.
My flavour of psychology ishealth psychology.
So health psychology is reallyworking with people for me with
physical ailments.
So it might be chronic disease,it might be in their
rehabilitation, maybe in falls,they've had chronic pain.
(01:07):
So it's more around theirhealth issues and the
interaction between the healthand the mind.
So how the health issues mightinfluence someone's mindset or
their psychological well-being,and then vice versa, how
someone's psychologicalwell-being can influence their
healing or their processes inphysical health.
Merilyn (01:25):
Recently had two, well, I wanted to secure a clinical
psychologist for mental healthfor a family member.
And I'm thinking, oh yeah, I'lljust bring up and book in.
No, it's like a three to sixmonth wait.
Natasha (01:40):
Yes.
So uh I think particularlysince COVID.
And I think the other thing,not only COVID, and I the
impacts that that that has hadon people has been huge, I
think, and ongoing.
Um, I think we're just startingto see some of those even now
because even for myself, Inoticed there was the COVID and
(02:01):
you just survived and gotthrough and did what you had to
do.
Then there was the opening upyear, people did lots of things,
and I feel like it's only morerecently people starting to say,
actually, that was really big.
That had quite an impact on me.
Um, so I think there was it's acombination of COVID impacts.
I think there's also beenpeople not practicing as much.
(02:25):
So some people are saying, I'mburnt out from that time.
We were so busy, it was such astressful time.
Uh, and people re-evaluatingand reassessing who they are,
where they want to be, what theywant to do, and so shifting and
changing in their roles andeven how much work they do or
don't do now.
So I think all of those thingsare really contributing to that.
Merilyn (02:47):
Which you have been through a change too, haven't
you?
You know, and I think a lot ofpeople have done that.
They've they've been out ofwork from home, they've had a
lot more time, they've sat thereand they've gone, am I really
doing what I'm on this planetfor?
Or is it time for a change?
So what happened to you?
(03:07):
How did you get to that spot?
Natasha (03:09):
So mine look, mine's been an evolving journey over a
long period of time.
So probably over 30 years, I'vebeen involved in some kind of
personal development, evenpre-me doing psychology.
So I was a mature age goingback to psychology.
I did it initially.
Yeah, so I did my undergrad.
I actually did primary teachingto start with, then I did an
(03:30):
undergrad, then I put that onhold and went into the corporate
world for about eight or nineyears, uh, and then went back to
study and went and did my um uhgraduate diploma and did a
doctorate in health psychology.
So I'm a bit later to thescene.
Merilyn (03:46):
Which is good because you bring so much life
experience.
Natasha (03:50):
Yes, I feel like all of that has led me to where I need
to be.
So I'd done I'd always done alot of things, and so probably
about four or five years ago, uhI I went and did a coaching
course, and I went, oh mygoodness, I completely love
this.
This this is my next chapter,because I always have chapters.
(04:10):
I love chapters, right?
I'm like, I think this is mynext new chapter, and then
things like COVID hit, and thenthere's the business, lots of
things, and I think just kept itwas in the background.
I had coaching clients, but itwasn't a focus.
I didn't feel like it could beat that time, and then uh, but
never really getting out there,never really being able to put
(04:34):
the focus on that.
Yeah, there was a crunch pointlast year where I became quite
run down and exhausted, and andthe same, I think, as a lot of
people, you know, justre-evaluating and thinking, hang
on a minute, doing all of thisis not bringing me joy,
(04:56):
happiness, the energy that Italk about that I want for other
people.
So I need to do that for me tolead the way for others.
So just having to get realabout a few things, seeing some
old patterns and what was notworking.
Uh, and actually, I just had tostop.
I actually just stopped.
I'm in the position, I'm in thefortunate position I was of
(05:18):
being able to just stop andactually heal and take some time
and re have a rethink aboutwhere I was heading.
And where are you going?
Like, what are you doing?
I've had a little bit ofexperience in working with some
sports people and athletes, andjust notice that I just have
this burning desire and justthis excitement that I can't
(05:43):
even explain.
It's like palpable.
Uh, basically me bouncing offthe walls in working with
particularly high performancepeople in those high performing
industries, and thinking, Ithink this is my thing, I think
this is my new thing.
And being a health psych, Ireally like the interaction
between because I understand andknow about the body and the
(06:06):
interactions and mindset sort oftypes of things.
So I was just like, I thinkthis is a beautiful, you know,
when it kind of just comes toSynergy.
Synergy, that's the word I'mlooking for, a beautiful
synergy.
It's just like I've got allthose skills that I can now
bring in together.
Um, because I've been doing alot of training, I've trained in
(06:27):
EMDR and a lot of NLP andhypnosis work, so really moving
into that unconscious work withpeople and noticing how deep
that work is and how you can getchange quite quickly working in
that field as opposed to someof the other psychological
therapies that I've been workingwith in the past.
I kind of call those the olderwaves of psychology, these are
(06:50):
the like the new techniques, andthen just being trained in that
now and being able to bringchange to people quickly.
And of course, as highperforming people, like athletes
and sports people, you wantchange fast.
Merilyn (07:03):
What is it that high performing people, people that
are doing well, why would theyneed your help?
What is it?
Is it just to go faster,stronger, harder?
Or are they really flesh andbones like us and there's
self-doubt and procrastinationand all perfectionism?
Spill the beans, Natasha.
Natasha (07:26):
Absolutely, Merilyn.
Like me, like you, like all ofus, we're all flesh and bones,
and you know, those bumblinghuman beings in the end, um, who
have the same things as mostother people going on in the
background.
And in fact, it can be morebecause of, you know, they're in
often in high pressuresituations, the pressure to
(07:48):
perform, the pre pressure to dowell, or everyone has an
opinion, and often they'll haveteams of people.
And so there's a lot going onfor people.
And I think, yeah, they'rehumans, so they have everyday
lives, plus they have all thatgoing on.
What can happen sometimes isdeveloping sometimes they call
it the gips, or some issue comesup, like I could get the ball
(08:13):
in the hole before, and now Ican't.
Now I can't.
Um what's changed, and it's nota technique thing, but there's
some psychological block orissue that's going on that just
can't work out what's what'shappening.
So it's a range of things,sometimes even more so, because
of that high-pressureenvironment they're on.
Merilyn (08:35):
Those who are just listening to the audio version
won't see this.
Very high-lettered, like lotsof certificates.
Tell us the story behind thatand how has that helped or
hindered where you are today?
Natasha (08:49):
So I am a self-confessed learnaholic.
We would call this the Hall ofFame, but I'm now calling it the
Hall of Shame, but not really.
I am proud of my achievements.
However, yes, most of them arenecessary to, you know, they
were needed to lead me to whereI am to be able to be a
practicing psychologist.
(09:09):
And this is what I'm alwaysdriven by in all of my learning.
It's about can I learn more?
Can I get more?
Can I know more to be able tohelp people faster, better, with
less pain?
It's always about that for me.
I did the doctorate because I'mlike, well, I'll get an extra
year of learning, of workingunder a mentorship, and maybe
(09:33):
there'll be things there thatI'll be able to take.
Like I'm always open to whatelse is there?
How else can I help people?
Is there something better?
And I and while that's beenamazing and you know, gives me
an amazing tool bag uh formyself, because last year I had
four programs on the go, uh,which is probably what led me to
(09:56):
being run down.
You know, four programs plusthe business, plus seeing my own
private practice clients andcoaching clients.
It was a little bit too much.
So there we personally, therehas been a pattern around that,
which has, I wouldn't say it'shindered me, but it certainly
had me on a treadmill of notstopping and being able to go,
(10:20):
how can I implement this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In a big way that allows me tomake the biggest difference in
the world.
Because that's that's who I am.
You know, that's who I am.
I want to make a difference inthe world.
And me doing all of that mademe think, oh, I'm doing that
because I'm getting all thesethings, except I was never
really channeling it intosomething that could then expand
(10:41):
and come out to the world.
Merilyn (10:43):
I was watching myself the last week and people
recommend books.
So I get that book.
I sit down to work at mybusiness and they go, Oh no,
I'll just finish that book firstbecause that's going to give me
an answer.
And then you realize actuallyit didn't.
It was interesting.
I learned a lot, but it wasvery sophisticated, very
sophisticated way ofprocrastination.
Natasha (11:02):
Oh, yeah, we get really good at that, don't we?
Merilyn (11:04):
R eally good.
Natasha (11:05):
It's like it gets sneakier, it looks a little
different, it looks like no, no,that's really the truth.
Merilyn (11:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Natasha (11:12):
But it's not reality.
Merilyn (11:13):
Why do we do that as humans?
What do you think?
Natasha (11:16):
I wrote about the exact same thing in my book because I
said, Who am I to say anything?
I don't think I have anythingto say, even though I at that
point I've been practicing 10years, I'd done all these other
things, like I've done personaldevelopment for 30 years.
Like, how could I not havesomething to say or contribute?
And yet there I was exactly thesame as what you were talking
(11:37):
about, just going, what am Igonna write about?
What what have I got to say?
Like exactly the same, Marilyn.
Merilyn (11:45):
Tell us about your book.
What is it about?
Who's it for?
Natasha (11:48):
So that book, that book was probably one of the harder
things I've done in my life,actually.
And I oh, and I was so shockedand so surprised.
That's why I wanted to mentionit because here's why I think
this is my, you know, who knows,right?
But for me, I'd always written,like I've written millions of
(12:09):
words, millions and millions ofwords.
I like I really mean that, butit's always been in a scientific
way.
It's always been, you know,writing a paper, writing a
doctor, doing an assignment, andwhich has always got to be
based on other people's opinionsor other people's research or
other people's things, and youreference it all and you do all
(12:29):
that.
So it's not really me, right?
It's me just gatheringinformation and putting it
together.
And because when I went to dothat, because I'd been offered
to do the book, and I was like,I don't want it to be that
because it's not who I am, right?
I love just sitting andchatting with someone.
That's how I am in my sessionswith people.
(12:50):
We're like having a chat, I'm areal person, you're a real
person, you know, and I mighthave some things that can help.
So I wanted to write this bookin my way, no referencing, no
formal language pattern, no,just me having a chat.
So it's called Real Talk, RealChange.
And it's because I did it's myvoice, and I know my clients who
(13:13):
have bought it, they're like,oh, it's so great because when I
read it, it's like you're righthere with me.
And that's exactly how I wantedit.
But here's the problem withthat, right?
I wanted it to be that sopeople could easily just read
it.
It didn't feel hard, and theycould hopefully take some tools
and some strategies and somethings from that that they could
implement for themselves.
For me, it was about I then hadto be me.
(13:36):
I then had to show myself andbe my voice.
I I felt so vulnerable andexposed, and it was really a
scary thing for me to do.
And I it was it was one of thehardest things I've ever done,
Marilyn, to be honest.
It because it was about me.
And I shared a little bit ofpersonal things in there because
(13:58):
I wanted to show I'm a persontoo, you know, and I've gone
through some hard things aswell, and we can do it, you
know.
I I wanted it to be thatinformal voice.
It was hard, it was really hardbecause I'd been programmed
into that scientific, only basedon this research kind of way,
and not exposing who you are.
Merilyn (14:19):
Was it hard technically to write like that, or was it
just the vulnerability?
Natasha (14:25):
It was the vulnerability, it was the
feeling like I was exposed.
This was my voice, and they'renot even my ideas, and I say
this in the book, these are allbased on, and at that point,
this was pre-me doing a lot ofthe newer techniques like EMDR
and NLP and the hypnosis and thesubconscious kind of work that
I do.
This was the stuff before that.
(14:46):
So you might have heard of CBT,cognitive behavioural therapy
or acceptance commitmenttherapy.
So I was really based aroundthat and understanding the
stress response and how thatworks in the body.
Because I do think, and this iswhy I went into teaching points
too, because I think educationis really important, knowledge
is power, and particularly ifyou implement it.
So I'm always about, I want togive you the why here, I want to
(15:07):
give you the understanding, sothen you'll know why it's good
to do that breathing techniqueor to do this particular thing
or to go and exercise it.
So for me, I've always got tohave the understanding paired
with the idea or the strategy.
Um, so look, it's not mythings, it's based on all of
those amazing therapies, but Idon't reference it, I don't put
(15:30):
things behind it, I just talk asif you're sitting with me in
the room.
I speak that book like I wouldspeak to someone and explain it
in the room.
So, and I think just doing thatwithout all the referencing and
science, and it's a little bitagainst kind of how my
profession might present,sharing my own a couple of my
own personal experiences is notreally the thing to do.
(15:53):
So it's a lot of that.
Merilyn (15:55):
Where did you find the most pressure?
Was it the feeling of peerscriticism or..
It was peers, yeah.
And even stepping out into thenew business that I'm creating
now, there's that in thebackground as well.
So, yes, because I think aspsychologists, we're really it's
not it's not the identity ofbeing a psychologist for me.
(16:16):
I don't really care about that,but it's it's the programming
that I've had around becoming apsychologist and how you're
meant to be that has uh kept mein that box and being uh afraid
to step out and do things alittle differently.
Can you share with us one or two tips that you have
(16:39):
implemented for yourself inhelping you get out of that?
Because I can imagine there's alot of people sitting there
going, listening to you rightnow, going, I can resonate that.
I might not be a psychologist,but I'm in XYZ field.
We feel that.
What has worked for you?
Natasha (16:56):
I know this to be true.
It's being in a community,which is what I joined last
year.
I joined a beautiful community,the Business Incubator
community with Hayley Kelly, Dr.
Hayley Kelly, um, oflike-minded people who had that
background of understanding andwho were also wanting to achieve
the same kind of things, whowanted to break free, who wanted
(17:18):
to do things a littledifferently, who saw the world a
little differently.
Being surrounded by thatbeautiful community with a
coach, don't do it alone.
Find your people and besurrounded by those people who
are on the same path, who willhold you and support you and
give you the kick up the bum youneed to fulfill on what it is
(17:41):
that you're looking to do.
That's been the hugestdifference because I've done so
much work, like really, I'vedone a lot of work on myself.
But the thing that made thedifference was being that part
of that community who got it,who got the path and what it
would take, and was stillstanding beside me.
And I think Marilyn, your youruh your phrase, standing
(18:04):
shoulder to shoulder, movingforward together.
That just that and I've gotgoosebumps thinking about that
now, you know, because youpresented that image to me, and
it's just beautiful becausethat's exactly how it feels, and
with that support and communityin those people, I feel like I
can do it.
It's different now for me.
Merilyn (18:25):
That's something that not a lot of people point out,
is it?
It's something that we eithertake for granted and we don't
realize the impact on us, orwe're just not even conscious
about it.
Was there anything you workedwith in yourself apart from the
community that also worked foryou?
Natasha (18:41):
Well, certainly having a coach and being able to
uncover the old programming andpatterning that's unconscious,
right?
Because it's unconscious, youdon't know, right?
So it's not until you havesomeone who can work with you to
be able to uncover thatunconscious programming.
You're not even sure of thembecause it gets sneakier.
(19:03):
I think as we get better, itgets sneakier, it can hide and
looks like something else.
You're like, no, I've got thatnow, and then it's something
else.
So I think it's uncoveringthat.
And so the techniques that I'veused and I work with someone
around was um conversationalhypnosis and EMDR work was
really the things.
(19:24):
What is EMDR?
So EMDR is eye movement,desensitization and
reprocessing.
Um, it's been around quite along time, but it's only more
recently, and I'm talking in thelast few years, been accepted
in the psychology world.
Prior to that, it wasconsidered quackery.
Um, but it's now accepted andcan be used in even like TAC and
(19:50):
WorkSafe and governmentorganizations, which is amazing.
So, but it took them a longtime to get that recognized and
through.
Um, and it's just usingtechniques that help the person
to go into the unconscious anduncover what the the patterning
or the issue is, um, in a waythat the other techniques like
(20:13):
CBT and ACT and things likethat, just that they just can't
do that.
And once you can access it, anEMDR for me is a way to access
that, and conversationalhypnosis is another way to me.
It's just allowing that personto be able to go in.
And the brain, if we if we giveit space and we work with it in
the right way, can actuallyfind what we call a knot.
(20:36):
It's like where something gotpaired with something else at
some point, and it doesn't haveto make sense, and that's now
created you locked into acertain way of being.
So being able to get access andhave that unlock and open up,
then allows you the freedom ofchoice again.
So rather than I'm driven, ithas to be this way, I have to
perform, I have to do thatthing, it now opens it up.
(20:59):
It's like, oh, that's what,okay, I don't have to be that
way anymore.
I don't have to choose thatthing.
And and that's really what'shappened around my learning
stuff.
It's like I got, oh, that'swhat that was about.
It was about being useful, itwas about, you know, these
things.
And now it's like, oh, I don'thave to do that.
I don't have to be that.
And it doesn't feel, I thinkonce you get that on that
(21:22):
unconscious level and you'reable to untangle that, it
doesn't feel hard anymore.
It just feels like, oh, this isa natural progression for me.
I feel like it's easy now tomove forward.
I'm not pushing, trying sohard.
It's just here now, and I canactually just move into that
space with grace and ease.
Not saying there won't be timeswhere you come up against
(21:44):
things, but it's just, it feelslike, oh, this is right now.
Merilyn (21:48):
Ah, thank you so much for this dip into your world.
What would you like to beremembered for at the end of
your life?
Natasha (21:57):
I want to be remembered as someone who really cares.
Because that's that you know,that's who I am.
I I really care.
Um, that I'm a kind and caring,compassionate person.
Uh I'd like to be remembered assomeone who makes a difference
in people's worlds, whether it'ssmall or bigger.
I don't mind that I'vecontributed to them in some way.
(22:20):
I don't know, that I just gaveup my all, that I never gave up
and I just persisted and oh, I'mfeeling teary.
Because I I just I really wantto make a difference to other
people and I want them to knowthat you know more pain.
You can't avoid pain in life,but you can overcome suffering,
(22:41):
like you don't have to suffer.
Yeah, of course we're gonnahave pain, but you don't have to
suffer.
You don't need to suffer.
There's a way forward and thatyou can grow, you know, that we
can thrive in life and achieveamazing things and create
beautiful lives and fulfill ourdreams.
(23:03):
I know I just I want that forpeople because I know I've been
on that path and you know whatto do that for me, so I want to
help people, I want to rememberfor helping people do that, you
know, achieve the dreams or evenjust live their dreams.
Merilyn (23:16):
Oh, Natasha, thank you for your inspiration and for
your vulnerability and uh yourinsight into your world.
Thank you.
Well, that was inspiring andgrounding all at once.
If you would like to get Dr.
Natasha Davison's book, it'scalled Real Talk, Real Change,
and you can get that on Amazonand all good booksellers.
(23:40):
I'll see you on the next show.
Hello, welcome to the Merilyn Show.
If we've not met, hi, I'mMerilyn, and today I'm talking
with Dr.
Natasha Davison.
Natasha (00:10):
I felt so vulnerable and exposed and it was really a
scary thing for me to do.
Merilyn (00:17):
She's a psychologist based in Australia who has
recently tweaked her career.
She discovered that she lovedworking with the high
performers.
This is a very raw and realchat about her making that
change, but also what it mighttake for us to make those kinds
(00:41):
of changes in our lives.
Welcome to the show, Natasha.
Natasha (00:45):
Hi everyone, so lovely to be here and be with you all.
My flavour of psychology ishealth psychology.
So health psychology is reallyworking with people for me with
physical ailments.
So it might be chronic disease,it might be in their
rehabilitation, maybe in falls,they've had chronic pain.
(01:07):
So it's more around theirhealth issues and the
interaction between the healthand the mind.
So how the health issues mightinfluence someone's mindset or
their psychological well-being,and then vice versa, how
someone's psychologicalwell-being can influence their
healing or their processes inphysical health.
Merilyn (01:25):
Recently had two, well, I wanted to secure a clinical
psychologist for mental healthfor a family member.
And I'm thinking, oh yeah, I'lljust bring up and book in.
No, it's like a three to sixmonth wait.
Natasha (01:40):
Yes.
So uh I think particularlysince COVID.
And I think the other thing,not only COVID, and I the
impacts that that that has hadon people has been huge, I
think, and ongoing.
Um, I think we're just startingto see some of those even now
because even for myself, Inoticed there was the COVID and
(02:01):
you just survived and gotthrough and did what you had to
do.
Then there was the opening upyear, people did lots of things,
and I feel like it's only morerecently people starting to say,
actually, that was really big.
That had quite an impact on me.
Um, so I think there was it's acombination of COVID impacts.
I think there's also beenpeople not practicing as much.
(02:25):
So some people are saying, I'mburnt out from that time.
We were so busy, it was such astressful time.
Uh, and people re-evaluatingand reassessing who they are,
where they want to be, what theywant to do, and so shifting and
changing in their roles andeven how much work they do or
don't do now.
So I think all of those thingsare really contributing to that.
Merilyn (02:47):
Which you have been through a change too, haven't
you?
You know, and I think a lot ofpeople have done that.
They've they've been out ofwork from home, they've had a
lot more time, they've sat thereand they've gone, am I really
doing what I'm on this planetfor?
Or is it time for a change?
So what happened to you?
(03:07):
How did you get to that spot?
Natasha (03:09):
So mine look, mine's been an evolving journey over a
long period of time.
So probably over 30 years, I'vebeen involved in some kind of
personal development, evenpre-me doing psychology.
So I was a mature age goingback to psychology.
I did it initially.
Yeah, so I did my undergrad.
I actually did primary teachingto start with, then I did an
(03:30):
undergrad, then I put that onhold and went into the corporate
world for about eight or nineyears, uh, and then went back to
study and went and did my um uhgraduate diploma and did a
doctorate in health psychology.
So I'm a bit later to thescene.
Merilyn (03:46):
Which is good because you bring so much life
experience.
Natasha (03:50):
Yes, I feel like all of that has led me to where I need
to be.
So I'd done I'd always done alot of things, and so probably
about four or five years ago, uhI I went and did a coaching
course, and I went, oh mygoodness, I completely love
this.
This this is my next chapter,because I always have chapters.
(04:10):
I love chapters, right?
I'm like, I think this is mynext new chapter, and then
things like COVID hit, and thenthere's the business, lots of
things, and I think just kept itwas in the background.
I had coaching clients, but itwasn't a focus.
I didn't feel like it could beat that time, and then uh, but
never really getting out there,never really being able to put
(04:34):
the focus on that.
Yeah, there was a crunch pointlast year where I became quite
run down and exhausted, and andthe same, I think, as a lot of
people, you know, justre-evaluating and thinking, hang
on a minute, doing all of thisis not bringing me joy,
(04:56):
happiness, the energy that Italk about that I want for other
people.
So I need to do that for me tolead the way for others.
So just having to get realabout a few things, seeing some
old patterns and what was notworking.
Uh, and actually, I just had tostop.
I actually just stopped.
I'm in the position, I'm in thefortunate position I was of
(05:18):
being able to just stop andactually heal and take some time
and re have a rethink aboutwhere I was heading.
And where are you going?
Like, what are you doing?
I've had a little bit ofexperience in working with some
sports people and athletes, andjust notice that I just have
this burning desire and justthis excitement that I can't
(05:43):
even explain.
It's like palpable.
Uh, basically me bouncing offthe walls in working with
particularly high performancepeople in those high performing
industries, and thinking, Ithink this is my thing, I think
this is my new thing.
And being a health psych, Ireally like the interaction
between because I understand andknow about the body and the
(06:06):
interactions and mindset sort oftypes of things.
So I was just like, I thinkthis is a beautiful, you know,
when it kind of just comes toSynergy.
Synergy, that's the word I'mlooking for, a beautiful
synergy.
It's just like I've got allthose skills that I can now
bring in together.
Um, because I've been doing alot of training, I've trained in
(06:27):
EMDR and a lot of NLP andhypnosis work, so really moving
into that unconscious work withpeople and noticing how deep
that work is and how you can getchange quite quickly working in
that field as opposed to someof the other psychological
therapies that I've been workingwith in the past.
I kind of call those the olderwaves of psychology, these are
(06:50):
the like the new techniques, andthen just being trained in that
now and being able to bringchange to people quickly.
And of course, as highperforming people, like athletes
and sports people, you wantchange fast.
Merilyn (07:03):
What is it that high performing people, people that
are doing well, why would theyneed your help?
What is it?
Is it just to go faster,stronger, harder?
Or are they really flesh andbones like us and there's
self-doubt and procrastinationand all perfectionism?
Spill the beans, Natasha.
Natasha (07:26):
Absolutely, Merilyn.
Like me, like you, like all ofus, we're all flesh and bones,
and you know, those bumblinghuman beings in the end, um, who
have the same things as mostother people going on in the
background.
And in fact, it can be morebecause of, you know, they're in
often in high pressuresituations, the pressure to
(07:48):
perform, the pre pressure to dowell, or everyone has an
opinion, and often they'll haveteams of people.
And so there's a lot going onfor people.
And I think, yeah, they'rehumans, so they have everyday
lives, plus they have all thatgoing on.
What can happen sometimes isdeveloping sometimes they call
it the gips, or some issue comesup, like I could get the ball
(08:13):
in the hole before, and now Ican't.
Now I can't.
Um what's changed, and it's nota technique thing, but there's
some psychological block orissue that's going on that just
can't work out what's what'shappening.
So it's a range of things,sometimes even more so, because
of that high-pressureenvironment they're on.
Merilyn (08:35):
Those who are just listening to the audio version
won't see this.
Very high-lettered, like lotsof certificates.
Tell us the story behind thatand how has that helped or
hindered where you are today?
Natasha (08:49):
So I am a self-confessed learnaholic.
We would call this the Hall ofFame, but I'm now calling it the
Hall of Shame, but not really.
I am proud of my achievements.
However, yes, most of them arenecessary to, you know, they
were needed to lead me to whereI am to be able to be a
practicing psychologist.
(09:09):
And this is what I'm alwaysdriven by in all of my learning.
It's about can I learn more?
Can I get more?
Can I know more to be able tohelp people faster, better, with
less pain?
It's always about that for me.
I did the doctorate because I'mlike, well, I'll get an extra
year of learning, of workingunder a mentorship, and maybe
(09:33):
there'll be things there thatI'll be able to take.
Like I'm always open to whatelse is there?
How else can I help people?
Is there something better?
And I and while that's beenamazing and you know, gives me
an amazing tool bag uh formyself, because last year I had
four programs on the go, uh,which is probably what led me to
(09:56):
being run down.
You know, four programs plusthe business, plus seeing my own
private practice clients andcoaching clients.
It was a little bit too much.
So there we personally, therehas been a pattern around that,
which has, I wouldn't say it'shindered me, but it certainly
had me on a treadmill of notstopping and being able to go,
(10:20):
how can I implement this?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
In a big way that allows me tomake the biggest difference in
the world.
Because that's that's who I am.
You know, that's who I am.
I want to make a difference inthe world.
And me doing all of that mademe think, oh, I'm doing that
because I'm getting all thesethings, except I was never
really channeling it intosomething that could then expand
(10:41):
and come out to the world.
Merilyn (10:43):
I was watching myself the last week and people
recommend books.
So I get that book.
I sit down to work at mybusiness and they go, Oh no,
I'll just finish that book firstbecause that's going to give me
an answer.
And then you realize actuallyit didn't.
It was interesting.
I learned a lot, but it wasvery sophisticated, very
sophisticated way ofprocrastination.
Natasha (11:02):
Oh, yeah, we get really good at that, don't we?
Merilyn (11:04):
R eally good.
Natasha (11:05):
It's like it gets sneakier, it looks a little
different, it looks like no, no,that's really the truth.
Merilyn (11:11):
Yeah, yeah.
Natasha (11:12):
But it's not reality.
Merilyn (11:13):
Why do we do that as humans?
What do you think?
Natasha (11:16):
I wrote about the exact same thing in my book because I
said, Who am I to say anything?
I don't think I have anythingto say, even though I at that
point I've been practicing 10years, I'd done all these other
things, like I've done personaldevelopment for 30 years.
Like, how could I not havesomething to say or contribute?
And yet there I was exactly thesame as what you were talking
(11:37):
about, just going, what am Igonna write about?
What what have I got to say?
Like exactly the same, Marilyn.
Merilyn (11:45):
Tell us about your book.
What is it about?
Who's it for?
Natasha (11:48):
So that book, that book was probably one of the harder
things I've done in my life,actually.
And I oh, and I was so shockedand so surprised.
That's why I wanted to mentionit because here's why I think
this is my, you know, who knows,right?
But for me, I'd always written,like I've written millions of
(12:09):
words, millions and millions ofwords.
I like I really mean that, butit's always been in a scientific
way.
It's always been, you know,writing a paper, writing a
doctor, doing an assignment, andwhich has always got to be
based on other people's opinionsor other people's research or
other people's things, and youreference it all and you do all
(12:29):
that.
So it's not really me, right?
It's me just gatheringinformation and putting it
together.
And because when I went to dothat, because I'd been offered
to do the book, and I was like,I don't want it to be that
because it's not who I am, right?
I love just sitting andchatting with someone.
That's how I am in my sessionswith people.
(12:50):
We're like having a chat, I'm areal person, you're a real
person, you know, and I mighthave some things that can help.
So I wanted to write this bookin my way, no referencing, no
formal language pattern, no,just me having a chat.
So it's called Real Talk, RealChange.
And it's because I did it's myvoice, and I know my clients who
(13:13):
have bought it, they're like,oh, it's so great because when I
read it, it's like you're righthere with me.
And that's exactly how I wantedit.
But here's the problem withthat, right?
I wanted it to be that sopeople could easily just read
it.
It didn't feel hard, and theycould hopefully take some tools
and some strategies and somethings from that that they could
implement for themselves.
For me, it was about I then hadto be me.
(13:36):
I then had to show myself andbe my voice.
I I felt so vulnerable andexposed, and it was really a
scary thing for me to do.
And I it was it was one of thehardest things I've ever done,
Marilyn, to be honest.
It because it was about me.
And I shared a little bit ofpersonal things in there because
(13:58):
I wanted to show I'm a persontoo, you know, and I've gone
through some hard things aswell, and we can do it, you
know.
I I wanted it to be thatinformal voice.
It was hard, it was really hardbecause I'd been programmed
into that scientific, only basedon this research kind of way,
and not exposing who you are.
Merilyn (14:19):
Was it hard technically to write like that, or was it
just the vulnerability?
Natasha (14:25):
It was the vulnerability, it was the
feeling like I was exposed.
This was my voice, and they'renot even my ideas, and I say
this in the book, these are allbased on, and at that point,
this was pre-me doing a lot ofthe newer techniques like EMDR
and NLP and the hypnosis and thesubconscious kind of work that
I do.
This was the stuff before that.
(14:46):
So you might have heard of CBT,cognitive behavioural therapy
or acceptance commitmenttherapy.
So I was really based aroundthat and understanding the
stress response and how thatworks in the body.
Because I do think, and this iswhy I went into teaching points
too, because I think educationis really important, knowledge
is power, and particularly ifyou implement it.
So I'm always about, I want togive you the why here, I want to
(15:07):
give you the understanding, sothen you'll know why it's good
to do that breathing techniqueor to do this particular thing
or to go and exercise it.
So for me, I've always got tohave the understanding paired
with the idea or the strategy.
Um, so look, it's not mythings, it's based on all of
those amazing therapies, but Idon't reference it, I don't put
(15:30):
things behind it, I just talk asif you're sitting with me in
the room.
I speak that book like I wouldspeak to someone and explain it
in the room.
So, and I think just doing thatwithout all the referencing and
science, and it's a little bitagainst kind of how my
profession might present,sharing my own a couple of my
own personal experiences is notreally the thing to do.
(15:53):
So it's a lot of that.
Merilyn (15:55):
Where did you find the most pressure?
Was it the feeling of peerscriticism or..
It was peers, yeah.
And even stepping out into thenew business that I'm creating
now, there's that in thebackground as well.
So, yes, because I think aspsychologists, we're really it's
not it's not the identity ofbeing a psychologist for me.
(16:16):
I don't really care about that,but it's it's the programming
that I've had around becoming apsychologist and how you're
meant to be that has uh kept mein that box and being uh afraid
to step out and do things alittle differently.
Can you share with us one or two tips that you have
(16:39):
implemented for yourself inhelping you get out of that?
Because I can imagine there's alot of people sitting there
going, listening to you rightnow, going, I can resonate that.
I might not be a psychologist,but I'm in XYZ field.
We feel that.
What has worked for you?
Natasha (16:56):
I know this to be true.
It's being in a community,which is what I joined last
year.
I joined a beautiful community,the Business Incubator
community with Hayley Kelly, Dr.
Hayley Kelly, um, oflike-minded people who had that
background of understanding andwho were also wanting to achieve
the same kind of things, whowanted to break free, who wanted
(17:18):
to do things a littledifferently, who saw the world a
little differently.
Being surrounded by thatbeautiful community with a
coach, don't do it alone.
Find your people and besurrounded by those people who
are on the same path, who willhold you and support you and
give you the kick up the bum youneed to fulfill on what it is
(17:41):
that you're looking to do.
That's been the hugestdifference because I've done so
much work, like really, I'vedone a lot of work on myself.
But the thing that made thedifference was being that part
of that community who got it,who got the path and what it
would take, and was stillstanding beside me.
And I think Marilyn, your youruh your phrase, standing
(18:04):
shoulder to shoulder, movingforward together.
That just that and I've gotgoosebumps thinking about that
now, you know, because youpresented that image to me, and
it's just beautiful becausethat's exactly how it feels, and
with that support and communityin those people, I feel like I
can do it.
It's different now for me.
Merilyn (18:25):
That's something that not a lot of people point out,
is it?
It's something that we eithertake for granted and we don't
realize the impact on us, orwe're just not even conscious
about it.
Was there anything you workedwith in yourself apart from the
community that also worked foryou?
Natasha (18:41):
Well, certainly having a coach and being able to
uncover the old programming andpatterning that's unconscious,
right?
Because it's unconscious, youdon't know, right?
So it's not until you havesomeone who can work with you to
be able to uncover thatunconscious programming.
You're not even sure of thembecause it gets sneakier.
(19:03):
I think as we get better, itgets sneakier, it can hide and
looks like something else.
You're like, no, I've got thatnow, and then it's something
else.
So I think it's uncoveringthat.
And so the techniques that I'veused and I work with someone
around was um conversationalhypnosis and EMDR work was
really the things.
(19:24):
What is EMDR?
So EMDR is eye movement,desensitization and
reprocessing.
Um, it's been around quite along time, but it's only more
recently, and I'm talking in thelast few years, been accepted
in the psychology world.
Prior to that, it wasconsidered quackery.
Um, but it's now accepted andcan be used in even like TAC and
(19:50):
WorkSafe and governmentorganizations, which is amazing.
So, but it took them a longtime to get that recognized and
through.
Um, and it's just usingtechniques that help the person
to go into the unconscious anduncover what the the patterning
or the issue is, um, in a waythat the other techniques like
(20:13):
CBT and ACT and things likethat, just that they just can't
do that.
And once you can access it, anEMDR for me is a way to access
that, and conversationalhypnosis is another way to me.
It's just allowing that personto be able to go in.
And the brain, if we if we giveit space and we work with it in
the right way, can actuallyfind what we call a knot.
(20:36):
It's like where something gotpaired with something else at
some point, and it doesn't haveto make sense, and that's now
created you locked into acertain way of being.
So being able to get access andhave that unlock and open up,
then allows you the freedom ofchoice again.
So rather than I'm driven, ithas to be this way, I have to
perform, I have to do thatthing, it now opens it up.
(20:59):
It's like, oh, that's what,okay, I don't have to be that
way anymore.
I don't have to choose thatthing.
And and that's really what'shappened around my learning
stuff.
It's like I got, oh, that'swhat that was about.
It was about being useful, itwas about, you know, these
things.
And now it's like, oh, I don'thave to do that.
I don't have to be that.
And it doesn't feel, I thinkonce you get that on that
(21:22):
unconscious level and you'reable to untangle that, it
doesn't feel hard anymore.
It just feels like, oh, this isa natural progression for me.
I feel like it's easy now tomove forward.
I'm not pushing, trying sohard.
It's just here now, and I canactually just move into that
space with grace and ease.
Not saying there won't be timeswhere you come up against
(21:44):
things, but it's just, it feelslike, oh, this is right now.
Merilyn (21:48):
Ah, thank you so much for this dip into your world.
What would you like to beremembered for at the end of
your life?
Natasha (21:57):
I want to be remembered as someone who really cares.
Because that's that you know,that's who I am.
I I really care.
Um, that I'm a kind and caring,compassionate person.
Uh I'd like to be remembered assomeone who makes a difference
in people's worlds, whether it'ssmall or bigger.
I don't mind that I'vecontributed to them in some way.
(22:20):
I don't know, that I just gaveup my all, that I never gave up
and I just persisted and oh, I'mfeeling teary.
Because I I just I really wantto make a difference to other
people and I want them to knowthat you know more pain.
You can't avoid pain in life,but you can overcome suffering,
(22:41):
like you don't have to suffer.
Yeah, of course we're gonnahave pain, but you don't have to
suffer.
You don't need to suffer.
There's a way forward and thatyou can grow, you know, that we
can thrive in life and achieveamazing things and create
beautiful lives and fulfill ourdreams.
(23:03):
I know I just I want that forpeople because I know I've been
on that path and you know whatto do that for me, so I want to
help people, I want to rememberfor helping people do that, you
know, achieve the dreams or evenjust live their dreams.
Merilyn (23:16):
Oh, Natasha, thank you for your inspiration and for
your vulnerability and uh yourinsight into your world.
Thank you.
Well, that was inspiring andgrounding all at once.
If you would like to get Dr.
Natasha Davison's book, it'scalled Real Talk, Real Change,
and you can get that on Amazonand all good booksellers.
(23:40):
I'll see you on the next show.
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