September 4, 2026 • 19 mins
A patient once walked into Melanie Weller's clinic with a suicide planned for that night.
She had no protocol for what he was living through. She had herself.
Melanie is a physical therapist, a nervous system expert, and something she calls a neurotheologist - a word she'd been looking for long before she found it.
This isn't really a conversation about neuroscience.
It's about what happens when you stop leaving parts of yourself at the door.
In this episode, we unpack:
- Why hiding parts of yourself creates stress.
- The difference between expertise and intuition.
- What "Fearless Presence" really means - and why so many high performers are missing it.
- Why your body may know before your mind does.
- A simple breathing practice to calm your nervous system.
This episode is part of I Never Released These... The Lost Tapes, a special 12-part series featuring interviews I recorded between 2022 and 2024 that never made it into the world... until now.
Follow Melanie:
Website: melanieweller.com
Instagram: @embodyyourstar
Facebook: @WellerWorld
Follow Merilyn:
Instagram: @merilyn
Website: merilyn.com
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Merilyn (00:00):
Hello, welcome back to 12 Conversations.
I'm calling the Lost Tapes.
These were recorded a few yearsago and I never released them.
Completely, my bad.
I've got with me today MelanieWeller.
She's one of the most originalthinkers I've ever met.
She's a physical therapist andnervous system expert, and
(00:20):
you'll hear her describe herselfas a neurotheologist.
Hmm.
But that's not why I wanted youto meet her.
Let's start with the story ofwhat happened the day a patient
walked into her clinic planningto end his life.
Melanie (00:36):
My catapult into my own fearless presence after
collecting credentials like finewines and studying with
nationally and internationallyrenowned experts was in the
throes of my own midlife crisisin my early 40s.
And I had a health crisis, amarriage crisis, and a lawsuit
crisis basically all at the sametime.
(00:56):
And it was very obvious thatsomething needed to change.
And one day a patient walkedinto my office who had a suicide
planned for that night.
And he was living in anightmare of a hallucination
where everyone's faces weremelting.
And that was not in mywheelhouse.
That's not something I hadworked with previously.
Um, I didn't know that was thesituation when made the
(01:19):
appointment.
And so I made sure that he hadplaces to go.
But I also knew in my heartthat I couldn't just turn him
away and say, I can't help you.
So I thought, well, all right,I'll decompress his vagus nerve.
I'll just do what I do and makesure that he has somewhere to
go.
And 90 minutes later, he walkedout 90% better.
And I had brought all of myselfto the table.
(01:40):
I brought my intuition, Ibrought my heart, I brought all
of my clinical skills.
I showed up fully and a miraclehappened.
And we really saved each otherthat day because since then,
I've been on this mission tohelp others find their fearless
presence.
The most amazing thing thathappened last year, I got
(02:02):
invited to co-lead a MaryMagdalene retreat.
What has happened since hasbeen this really incredible
unfolding of events.
The most tangible was comingacross the field of
neurotheology and that it's anarea of academic research at
some major universities.
What happens in our brains andin our nervous systems with
spiritual experiences.
(02:23):
And when I saw that, I said,that's what I've been doing,
like for at least a decade,maybe longer.
And I have really struggled inthe way that I connect the vagus
nerve and neuroscience andanatomy with the Vedas and
medical astrology.
And I do it in a way that's notconventional, very solid
grounded, or what I think is areally solid grounded sort of
(02:46):
way.
And saying that I'm a physicaltherapist doesn't really do what
I do justice.
If I introduce myself as aphysical therapist, it's very
hard for people to hear any ofthe other interesting things
that I might say after that.
But when I can introduce myselfas a neurotheologist, that has
a curiosity.
And it's just so who I am.
It communicates my credentialsand my knowledge in a really
(03:08):
legitimate way because I have alot of nervous system knowledge
and body knowledge.
I've got a string ofprofessional credentials after
my name and gives me the spaceto really bring in the belief
system perspectives.
I've been really wanting thisword for a long time.
So it was very exciting to seeit and learn that it's a field
(03:29):
of research that physicians andneuroscientists are researching
at major universities that has aname made me feel like I have a
name now.
So I have a unique spin onneurotheology where I'm not just
looking at the brain, but I'mreally thinking about how the
body is affecting the brain, howthe body is driving those
belief systems and where thosebelief systems really live quite
precisely in your body, thatit's not just about is it your
(03:52):
vestibular system or your visualsystem or your sensory system?
But what beliefs do we keep inour feet?
Because my background inworking with patients for 30
years now, there were so manypatterns.
And it was so obvious to methat there was something else
happening here.
We know medically that stressis 75 to 90% of all disease and
(04:13):
dysfunction, but we don't talkreally specifically about what
stress really is and what thatmeans.
So that's what I what I haveloved doing for years.
You can use this information toreally take people that are
performing well and take that toanother level.
And our leaders really needperformance help because at
least 50% of them are depressed.
50% of executives aredepressed.
(04:35):
They're high functioning anddepressed.
Merilyn (04:38):
Wow.
Melanie (04:40):
And so a lot of the people that we see out in the
world that seem like they arerocking it on the inside are
depressed.
So when I talk about fearlesspresence, which is the name of
my podcast and my brand, it'sreally bringing your internal
data and external data together.
Research is great and medicineis great.
But if you have all of thisexternal data and it doesn't
(05:03):
match your internal data, it'snot helpful.
And bringing who you are on theinside in alignment with how
you're showing up on the outsideis really where the magic is
and bringing your intuition andyour expertise together.
I lived for years just runningon my credentials, but not
letting out who like my innerbeing, my inner being and my my
(05:23):
inner wow.
Yes, my inner, my intuition.
Or if I did, I would like Isecretly let it out.
It was not an open situation.
So really being able to bringyour expertise and intuition
together and not have toseparate yourself.
You know, healthcareprofessionals, licensed
professionals, we're all reallytaught to stay in our lane, or
that you go to work and youbring your work self to work,
(05:43):
but you leave your home self athome.
And that's stressful and that'skilling us.
Merilyn (05:48):
I think this works with all professions.
We have this experience, wehave this expertise, we have
this area of excellence, and yetwe're hungering to find that
intuitive piece or what I mightcall that wow piece.
Melanie (06:01):
Yeah.
I've worked a lot with a lot ofpeople who are afraid of
letting out the fullness of whothey are for a variety of
reasons, that it might scarepeople around them or they might
lose friends or lose family.
That's a huge threat to ournervous system, a huge threat to
our sense of survival.
And yet, almost all of the timewhen we do that, the reaction
(06:22):
is me too, or that's amazing, orthank you for telling me, or we
love you.
We're so glad you felt safeenough to share this with us.
And it's really stressful notto show up fully.
At the end of the day, that'sreally what it is.
When you have to stuff yourselfinto a box or fit yourself in a
shape that doesn't work, andmaybe you can do it for a little
(06:45):
while, but to do it every dayon an ongoing basis is
exhausting and it reallydeprives the world of the gift
that you actually are.
And the reason that some of usmay have letters after our name
that allow us to wield a scalpelor work with others in a
variety of ways, the reason ourtechniques work, and I've
(07:06):
treated these these people, so Iknow I know this, that the
reason your techniques work,it's not just because of what
you know, but it's who you are.
It's how you show up with thosetechniques.
I have treated the doctors thathave reputations for getting
all the cancer when they dosurgery.
And many of them have a arelationship with spirits or
(07:26):
they have a relationship withtheir intuition or with the god
of their understanding thathelps them, but they don't tell
their peers about that becauseat least here in the US, they
really could get reported to aboard and get in trouble with
their license for talking aboutthat.
I want to normalize thisconversation about our intuition
and this internal data thatwe're collecting.
(07:48):
And while we're in this era ofartificial intelligence and
we're seeing that really blow upeverywhere, we need to know
that we are real intelligenceand that we have our internal
data does the that exact samething that all the artificial
intelligence is doing.
Our nervous systems areexposed to something like 400
billion pieces of informationevery second.
(08:09):
Now we can't, we don't take inall of that.
Our nervous systems filter allof that.
Our conscious thought operatesat about 40 bits per second.
Our subconscious thought, ourbodies, operate at 11 million
bits per second.
Like that's a pretty fastcomputer.
You know, and I think reallyjust honoring the technology
that we are.
And when we don't have a goodmap in our brain of what's
(08:31):
happening inside of us, we feelthreat.
And when you get that mapclear, then your intuition, that
extra sixth sense about thingsreally guides you in some
amazing ways.
One of our students, she andher husband were on a road trip
and her husband started to havea stroke, and he was just
getting kind of tired.
And it would have been reallyeasy to say, oh, well, I'm gonna
drive, and you just sit in thepassenger seat and relax.
(08:53):
But she recognized, like hergut was like, No, this is not
right.
Because it wasn't the superclassic stroke presentation
where one side, one side of hisbody stopped working.
It was more subtle than that.
But they were able to get himto the hospital and get the
intervention in time.
All of that led her to make areally a life-saving decision.
And now he has no residualsymptoms.
(09:15):
And that decision processdidn't come exclusively from her
logical brain.
She's an engineer, she's got alot of logic skills.
It was this gut feeling thatlike something else is happening
here and taking the minute tobe really present with it so
that she could make the decisionto go to the hospital versus
the decision to say, I'm gonnadrive, and you can just sleep in
(09:35):
the passenger seat.
Merilyn (09:36):
Can you give us one thing we could put into practice
ourselves that you use on aregular basis now that we could
we could try?
Melanie (09:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I have a whole system onevaluating and treating the
vagus nerve in the body.
Your vagus nerve is your bigstress and pleasure mediating
pathway.
And it does it does a lot ofthings.
And your vagus nerve getstrapped in certain places
mechanically.
And one of the places that ourvagus nerve often needs to be
freed from is in the back sideof our hearts.
We carry a lot of tension inour shoulder blades when you sit
(10:06):
at a desk or whatever, and yourneck is tight and you've got
that knot in your shoulderblade.
And we store certain kinds ofinflammation on the back side of
our hearts as well.
The simplest thing you can dois to inhale into the back side
of your heart.
And just try to expand your ribcage to practice like inhaling
into the back side of your heartand then a full exhale.
Merilyn (10:28):
How long do you do it for?
Melanie (10:29):
Really, you don't need to do more than five or ten
repetitions.
It's just a little reset.
And so, like, there are moreadvanced ways to set up your
posture to and your yourpositioning to get a bigger
result.
But most people don't breatheinto the back side of their rib
cage at all.
All of the movement happens onthe front and on the top of the
(10:50):
rib cage.
And what that does is it tellsyour brain that you're running
away from something.
That there's a that tells yourbrain there's danger.
And so when you can get themobility into the back side of
your heart, it drops it down.
And with my clients, I'll throwin an Andean proverb that says
your future is behind you,propelling you forward.
And your past is in front ofyou, waiting for you to make
(11:12):
peace with it and clear yourway.
So when you breathe into theback side of your heart, you're
connecting with your good futureand the support of the universe
that and the support of the godof your understanding, the
support of your beliefs thathave your back.
Merilyn (11:26):
Wow.
What happens when you do that?
What what what results?
Melanie (11:30):
So physical pain can shift anxiety, mood, even
depression, sometimes grief.
Sometimes it can be a littleemotional, but definitely the
physical pain and anxiety areprobably the two big things that
that will shift quite quickly.
And the reason I throw in theproverb is because we're really
not wired for facts, we're wiredfor stories.
(11:50):
The neurotransmitter sequencesthat we need to change as humans
that create change are the sameneurotransmitter sequences a
good story takes us through.
And so it's really important tome to use imagery and story and
words in a way to help peoplemove through that cycle of the
nervous system, even if thetechnique is really good applied
(12:14):
anatomy and evidence-based andblah, blah, blah, all of that
kind of stuff.
It's just gargantuanly morepowerful to throw in a little
story about it and to throw insome imagery with it.
I find that fascinating because I broke through ribs in January. Knowingthat information, can you have
a stab?
We've not rehearsed it.
What would that mean for mynervous system?
(12:35):
And what is there a message inthere?
Because that that parable, thatproverb that you just read was
just, whoa, I wonder if there'ssome symbolism there for me.
Well, if our futures are at the back side of our
hearts propelling us forward, Iwill say a lot of us tend to run
from our future like it's apredator rather than letting it
catch us.
And in shamanic traditions, thesign of going from an ordinary
(13:00):
life to one of a shaman is adream about being eaten by a
large cat or, you know, or alarge animal.
And so I think sometimes we getknocked down so that our future
can actually catch us, so wecan line up with it.
So in astrology, medicalastrology, like the heart is
associated with Leo, which isthe story of the Nimeon lion.
(13:22):
And our hearts, our aorticarches are the same shape as the
symbol for Leo.
So we've got the male lion inour hearts.
And the rib cage and breastsare associated with Cancer,
which is the motheringconstellation.
So there could be a little bitof mothering yourself kind of a
message in that as well.
But in Paleolithic times, theCancer constellation was
(13:44):
represented by leopards orfemale lions.
For many years, it's beenrepresented by a crab or a
lobster crustacean.
But human mothers don't motherlike crabs.
We mother like lionesses.
The lioness is the huntress.
They get the food for the prideand they raise the children.
(14:05):
And I love the idea of havingyour male and female lion
together in your chest cominginto relationship.
I would say it's not abouthaving a partner.
It's your fearless presence.
It's you being in all of yourfullness that you get to have
that masculine feminine presencewithin you and you can use it
to show up with whatever youridentity is and however that
alchemically shows up, but thatyou get to have all of it, that
(14:28):
it's not minimized or I don'tlove this word, but like the
balance of it is there.
Because I think, and the reasonI don't like the word balance,
because I think at the end ofthe day, people don't really
want balance.
They want justice forthemselves.
When people are struggling withbalance, it's often or it can
be very poignant.
I say, well, like what isjustice for you?
Let's not talk about balance,but like tell me what justice
for you looks like in your life.
(14:49):
And then they start to find thebalance or find the things that
that will get them there.
Balance is just some level isjust being in your power
wherever you are.
It's being in your fearlesspresence.
Merilyn (15:01):
So it's breaking a rib, reminding me of that or warning
me of that, or..
I wouldn't think it as a as awarning.
In metaphysics, bones,crystals, and rocks hold our
oldest memories.
And there's a hormone in ourbones called osteocalcin.
Like our stress responsesactually start in our bones.
They don't start in our adrenalglands with the fight or
flight.
You have to have theosteocalcin from your bones to
(15:22):
trigger your adrenal glands torelease cortisol.
And osteocalcin is also tied tomemory.
And so bones are really areabout memory.
So remembering your power,remembering your fearless
presence, remembering the fiercelioness within you, or
remembering the spotlight.
You are the star in your life,like in remembering that and
(15:44):
really stepping into your ownspotlight is all part of that
part of the body.
So stepping into your spotlightthat's been part of your life,
pushing you to go show off, orletting go, getting those
memories that have been in yourway.
I broke my foot about fiveyears ago.
And at the time I was reallyworking on stillness and
meditating and stuff.
And as soon as I fell, my firstthought was, Well, I guess I
(16:06):
haven't been still enough.
And I could write a book on myfeet between the problems and
the path that they've taken meon.
And I think there is some truthin there and that I was not
being still enough at the time.
I also storied the whole thingfor myself that I just had
memories that were literallytripping me up in my bones.
And breaking my bone allowedthose memories to leave to exit
(16:29):
my bone tissue so that so thatthey weren't tripping me up
anymore.
The doctor that saw me, shesaid, Melanie, you're the
happiest person with a fracturethat we've ever seen.
I wasn't in any significantpain.
I told her I'm a vagus nerveexpert and she said, Oh, I got
it.
So I was able to stay calm inthe moment of it all.
But I storied it in a way thatworked for me rather than seeing
(16:50):
it as an as an obstacle.
Fearless presence, I just love that phrase.
Let's close by giving us acouple of examples of people who
you feel are naturally in theirfearless presence.
So just to give us a bit of ataste of what you mean by that.
Melanie (17:05):
Well, the first person that always comes to mind is for
me is Elton John.
He's such an incredible exampleof fearless presence.
My LGBTQ friends have beenincredibly inspiring to me over
the years because they are somuch more in their fearless
presence than I was for a longtime.
Like they really live that at alevel that's so exciting to me.
(17:27):
In the midst of my incredibleMary Magdalene story, I had a
very vivid dream about Americancomedian Leslie Jones, who was
on Saturday Night Live for manyyears.
And she's another great exampleof fearless presence.
Like she's not afraid to saywhat she thinks.
And I think comedians are alsoreally great examples of that.
(17:50):
Since the dream, I have had aparade of amazing black women
through my life, one of whomI've known for many years, but
were collaborating on somethingnew, and I've had new ones come
through.
For me, the idea of bringing mynervous system regulation and
vagus nerve work into thediversity, equity, and inclusion
space is super exciting to me.
But yeah, those are probablythe two whose fearless presence
(18:13):
I really get and really enjoy.
And, you know, the Elton Johnsbiopic really moved me in that,
in that way, seeing him comecome into his fearless presence.
It really hit me in anemotional spot.
And even though my story's verydifferent than his, there's
those archetypal elements thatwe often share in feeling like
we have to stay hiding in acloset of whatever that is.
Merilyn (18:34):
Love it.
Love it.
Anything else you want tofinish off with?
Melanie (18:37):
For women especially, don't settle, don't compromise.
Whatever we life you're living,there's so much potential for
change.
And that change really canhappen so quickly through
working with the nervous system.
We don't know how good we canfeel and how good our lives can
get because we settle forsomething that everybody else
told us was the maximum ofwhat's possible.
(19:00):
My friend made a post recentlyon her social media that was,
"Do you remember who you werebefore the world told you who
you should be?" And we're allhere to remember who we are in
our bones.
Like to really remember thosedeepest, oldest, truest memories
about ourselves.
And you don't have tocompromise that.
Merilyn (19:21):
Melanie, thank you.
I go deeper, deeper, deeperinto myself whenever I have a
conversation with you.
Melanie (19:27):
I absolutely adore chatting with you, Marilyn.
Thank you for having me.
You know I could talk to youevery day, and we would have a
never ending bucket of amazingthings to discuss.
We would.
Merilyn (19:37):
Awesome.
Thank you.
Hello, welcome back to 12 Conversations.
I'm calling the Lost Tapes.
These were recorded a few yearsago and I never released them.
Completely, my bad.
I've got with me today MelanieWeller.
She's one of the most originalthinkers I've ever met.
She's a physical therapist andnervous system expert, and
(00:20):
you'll hear her describe herselfas a neurotheologist.
Hmm.
But that's not why I wanted youto meet her.
Let's start with the story ofwhat happened the day a patient
walked into her clinic planningto end his life.
Melanie (00:36):
My catapult into my own fearless presence after
collecting credentials like finewines and studying with
nationally and internationallyrenowned experts was in the
throes of my own midlife crisisin my early 40s.
And I had a health crisis, amarriage crisis, and a lawsuit
crisis basically all at the sametime.
(00:56):
And it was very obvious thatsomething needed to change.
And one day a patient walkedinto my office who had a suicide
planned for that night.
And he was living in anightmare of a hallucination
where everyone's faces weremelting.
And that was not in mywheelhouse.
That's not something I hadworked with previously.
Um, I didn't know that was thesituation when made the
(01:19):
appointment.
And so I made sure that he hadplaces to go.
But I also knew in my heartthat I couldn't just turn him
away and say, I can't help you.
So I thought, well, all right,I'll decompress his vagus nerve.
I'll just do what I do and makesure that he has somewhere to
go.
And 90 minutes later, he walkedout 90% better.
And I had brought all of myselfto the table.
(01:40):
I brought my intuition, Ibrought my heart, I brought all
of my clinical skills.
I showed up fully and a miraclehappened.
And we really saved each otherthat day because since then,
I've been on this mission tohelp others find their fearless
presence.
The most amazing thing thathappened last year, I got
(02:02):
invited to co-lead a MaryMagdalene retreat.
What has happened since hasbeen this really incredible
unfolding of events.
The most tangible was comingacross the field of
neurotheology and that it's anarea of academic research at
some major universities.
What happens in our brains andin our nervous systems with
spiritual experiences.
(02:23):
And when I saw that, I said,that's what I've been doing,
like for at least a decade,maybe longer.
And I have really struggled inthe way that I connect the vagus
nerve and neuroscience andanatomy with the Vedas and
medical astrology.
And I do it in a way that's notconventional, very solid
grounded, or what I think is areally solid grounded sort of
(02:46):
way.
And saying that I'm a physicaltherapist doesn't really do what
I do justice.
If I introduce myself as aphysical therapist, it's very
hard for people to hear any ofthe other interesting things
that I might say after that.
But when I can introduce myselfas a neurotheologist, that has
a curiosity.
And it's just so who I am.
It communicates my credentialsand my knowledge in a really
(03:08):
legitimate way because I have alot of nervous system knowledge
and body knowledge.
I've got a string ofprofessional credentials after
my name and gives me the spaceto really bring in the belief
system perspectives.
I've been really wanting thisword for a long time.
So it was very exciting to seeit and learn that it's a field
(03:29):
of research that physicians andneuroscientists are researching
at major universities that has aname made me feel like I have a
name now.
So I have a unique spin onneurotheology where I'm not just
looking at the brain, but I'mreally thinking about how the
body is affecting the brain, howthe body is driving those
belief systems and where thosebelief systems really live quite
precisely in your body, thatit's not just about is it your
(03:52):
vestibular system or your visualsystem or your sensory system?
But what beliefs do we keep inour feet?
Because my background inworking with patients for 30
years now, there were so manypatterns.
And it was so obvious to methat there was something else
happening here.
We know medically that stressis 75 to 90% of all disease and
(04:13):
dysfunction, but we don't talkreally specifically about what
stress really is and what thatmeans.
So that's what I what I haveloved doing for years.
You can use this information toreally take people that are
performing well and take that toanother level.
And our leaders really needperformance help because at
least 50% of them are depressed.
50% of executives aredepressed.
(04:35):
They're high functioning anddepressed.
Merilyn (04:38):
Wow.
Melanie (04:40):
And so a lot of the people that we see out in the
world that seem like they arerocking it on the inside are
depressed.
So when I talk about fearlesspresence, which is the name of
my podcast and my brand, it'sreally bringing your internal
data and external data together.
Research is great and medicineis great.
But if you have all of thisexternal data and it doesn't
(05:03):
match your internal data, it'snot helpful.
And bringing who you are on theinside in alignment with how
you're showing up on the outsideis really where the magic is
and bringing your intuition andyour expertise together.
I lived for years just runningon my credentials, but not
letting out who like my innerbeing, my inner being and my my
(05:23):
inner wow.
Yes, my inner, my intuition.
Or if I did, I would like Isecretly let it out.
It was not an open situation.
So really being able to bringyour expertise and intuition
together and not have toseparate yourself.
You know, healthcareprofessionals, licensed
professionals, we're all reallytaught to stay in our lane, or
that you go to work and youbring your work self to work,
(05:43):
but you leave your home self athome.
And that's stressful and that'skilling us.
Merilyn (05:48):
I think this works with all professions.
We have this experience, wehave this expertise, we have
this area of excellence, and yetwe're hungering to find that
intuitive piece or what I mightcall that wow piece.
Melanie (06:01):
Yeah.
I've worked a lot with a lot ofpeople who are afraid of
letting out the fullness of whothey are for a variety of
reasons, that it might scarepeople around them or they might
lose friends or lose family.
That's a huge threat to ournervous system, a huge threat to
our sense of survival.
And yet, almost all of the timewhen we do that, the reaction
(06:22):
is me too, or that's amazing, orthank you for telling me, or we
love you.
We're so glad you felt safeenough to share this with us.
And it's really stressful notto show up fully.
At the end of the day, that'sreally what it is.
When you have to stuff yourselfinto a box or fit yourself in a
shape that doesn't work, andmaybe you can do it for a little
(06:45):
while, but to do it every dayon an ongoing basis is
exhausting and it reallydeprives the world of the gift
that you actually are.
And the reason that some of usmay have letters after our name
that allow us to wield a scalpelor work with others in a
variety of ways, the reason ourtechniques work, and I've
(07:06):
treated these these people, so Iknow I know this, that the
reason your techniques work,it's not just because of what
you know, but it's who you are.
It's how you show up with thosetechniques.
I have treated the doctors thathave reputations for getting
all the cancer when they dosurgery.
And many of them have a arelationship with spirits or
(07:26):
they have a relationship withtheir intuition or with the god
of their understanding thathelps them, but they don't tell
their peers about that becauseat least here in the US, they
really could get reported to aboard and get in trouble with
their license for talking aboutthat.
I want to normalize thisconversation about our intuition
and this internal data thatwe're collecting.
(07:48):
And while we're in this era ofartificial intelligence and
we're seeing that really blow upeverywhere, we need to know
that we are real intelligenceand that we have our internal
data does the that exact samething that all the artificial
intelligence is doing.
Our nervous systems areexposed to something like 400
billion pieces of informationevery second.
(08:09):
Now we can't, we don't take inall of that.
Our nervous systems filter allof that.
Our conscious thought operatesat about 40 bits per second.
Our subconscious thought, ourbodies, operate at 11 million
bits per second.
Like that's a pretty fastcomputer.
You know, and I think reallyjust honoring the technology
that we are.
And when we don't have a goodmap in our brain of what's
(08:31):
happening inside of us, we feelthreat.
And when you get that mapclear, then your intuition, that
extra sixth sense about thingsreally guides you in some
amazing ways.
One of our students, she andher husband were on a road trip
and her husband started to havea stroke, and he was just
getting kind of tired.
And it would have been reallyeasy to say, oh, well, I'm gonna
drive, and you just sit in thepassenger seat and relax.
(08:53):
But she recognized, like hergut was like, No, this is not
right.
Because it wasn't the superclassic stroke presentation
where one side, one side of hisbody stopped working.
It was more subtle than that.
But they were able to get himto the hospital and get the
intervention in time.
All of that led her to make areally a life-saving decision.
And now he has no residualsymptoms.
(09:15):
And that decision processdidn't come exclusively from her
logical brain.
She's an engineer, she's got alot of logic skills.
It was this gut feeling thatlike something else is happening
here and taking the minute tobe really present with it so
that she could make the decisionto go to the hospital versus
the decision to say, I'm gonnadrive, and you can just sleep in
(09:35):
the passenger seat.
Merilyn (09:36):
Can you give us one thing we could put into practice
ourselves that you use on aregular basis now that we could
we could try?
Melanie (09:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I have a whole system onevaluating and treating the
vagus nerve in the body.
Your vagus nerve is your bigstress and pleasure mediating
pathway.
And it does it does a lot ofthings.
And your vagus nerve getstrapped in certain places
mechanically.
And one of the places that ourvagus nerve often needs to be
freed from is in the back sideof our hearts.
We carry a lot of tension inour shoulder blades when you sit
(10:06):
at a desk or whatever, and yourneck is tight and you've got
that knot in your shoulderblade.
And we store certain kinds ofinflammation on the back side of
our hearts as well.
The simplest thing you can dois to inhale into the back side
of your heart.
And just try to expand your ribcage to practice like inhaling
into the back side of your heartand then a full exhale.
Merilyn (10:28):
How long do you do it for?
Melanie (10:29):
Really, you don't need to do more than five or ten
repetitions.
It's just a little reset.
And so, like, there are moreadvanced ways to set up your
posture to and your yourpositioning to get a bigger
result.
But most people don't breatheinto the back side of their rib
cage at all.
All of the movement happens onthe front and on the top of the
(10:50):
rib cage.
And what that does is it tellsyour brain that you're running
away from something.
That there's a that tells yourbrain there's danger.
And so when you can get themobility into the back side of
your heart, it drops it down.
And with my clients, I'll throwin an Andean proverb that says
your future is behind you,propelling you forward.
And your past is in front ofyou, waiting for you to make
(11:12):
peace with it and clear yourway.
So when you breathe into theback side of your heart, you're
connecting with your good futureand the support of the universe
that and the support of the godof your understanding, the
support of your beliefs thathave your back.
Merilyn (11:26):
Wow.
What happens when you do that?
What what what results?
Melanie (11:30):
So physical pain can shift anxiety, mood, even
depression, sometimes grief.
Sometimes it can be a littleemotional, but definitely the
physical pain and anxiety areprobably the two big things that
that will shift quite quickly.
And the reason I throw in theproverb is because we're really
not wired for facts, we're wiredfor stories.
(11:50):
The neurotransmitter sequencesthat we need to change as humans
that create change are the sameneurotransmitter sequences a
good story takes us through.
And so it's really important tome to use imagery and story and
words in a way to help peoplemove through that cycle of the
nervous system, even if thetechnique is really good applied
(12:14):
anatomy and evidence-based andblah, blah, blah, all of that
kind of stuff.
It's just gargantuanly morepowerful to throw in a little
story about it and to throw insome imagery with it.
I find that fascinating because I broke through ribs in January. Knowingthat information, can you have
a stab?
We've not rehearsed it.
What would that mean for mynervous system?
(12:35):
And what is there a message inthere?
Because that that parable, thatproverb that you just read was
just, whoa, I wonder if there'ssome symbolism there for me.
Well, if our futures are at the back side of our
hearts propelling us forward, Iwill say a lot of us tend to run
from our future like it's apredator rather than letting it
catch us.
And in shamanic traditions, thesign of going from an ordinary
(13:00):
life to one of a shaman is adream about being eaten by a
large cat or, you know, or alarge animal.
And so I think sometimes we getknocked down so that our future
can actually catch us, so wecan line up with it.
So in astrology, medicalastrology, like the heart is
associated with Leo, which isthe story of the Nimeon lion.
(13:22):
And our hearts, our aorticarches are the same shape as the
symbol for Leo.
So we've got the male lion inour hearts.
And the rib cage and breastsare associated with Cancer,
which is the motheringconstellation.
So there could be a little bitof mothering yourself kind of a
message in that as well.
But in Paleolithic times, theCancer constellation was
(13:44):
represented by leopards orfemale lions.
For many years, it's beenrepresented by a crab or a
lobster crustacean.
But human mothers don't motherlike crabs.
We mother like lionesses.
The lioness is the huntress.
They get the food for the prideand they raise the children.
(14:05):
And I love the idea of havingyour male and female lion
together in your chest cominginto relationship.
I would say it's not abouthaving a partner.
It's your fearless presence.
It's you being in all of yourfullness that you get to have
that masculine feminine presencewithin you and you can use it
to show up with whatever youridentity is and however that
alchemically shows up, but thatyou get to have all of it, that
(14:28):
it's not minimized or I don'tlove this word, but like the
balance of it is there.
Because I think, and the reasonI don't like the word balance,
because I think at the end ofthe day, people don't really
want balance.
They want justice forthemselves.
When people are struggling withbalance, it's often or it can
be very poignant.
I say, well, like what isjustice for you?
Let's not talk about balance,but like tell me what justice
for you looks like in your life.
(14:49):
And then they start to find thebalance or find the things that
that will get them there.
Balance is just some level isjust being in your power
wherever you are.
It's being in your fearlesspresence.
Merilyn (15:01):
So it's breaking a rib, reminding me of that or warning
me of that, or..
I wouldn't think it as a as awarning.
In metaphysics, bones,crystals, and rocks hold our
oldest memories.
And there's a hormone in ourbones called osteocalcin.
Like our stress responsesactually start in our bones.
They don't start in our adrenalglands with the fight or
flight.
You have to have theosteocalcin from your bones to
(15:22):
trigger your adrenal glands torelease cortisol.
And osteocalcin is also tied tomemory.
And so bones are really areabout memory.
So remembering your power,remembering your fearless
presence, remembering the fiercelioness within you, or
remembering the spotlight.
You are the star in your life,like in remembering that and
(15:44):
really stepping into your ownspotlight is all part of that
part of the body.
So stepping into your spotlightthat's been part of your life,
pushing you to go show off, orletting go, getting those
memories that have been in yourway.
I broke my foot about fiveyears ago.
And at the time I was reallyworking on stillness and
meditating and stuff.
And as soon as I fell, my firstthought was, Well, I guess I
(16:06):
haven't been still enough.
And I could write a book on myfeet between the problems and
the path that they've taken meon.
And I think there is some truthin there and that I was not
being still enough at the time.
I also storied the whole thingfor myself that I just had
memories that were literallytripping me up in my bones.
And breaking my bone allowedthose memories to leave to exit
(16:29):
my bone tissue so that so thatthey weren't tripping me up
anymore.
The doctor that saw me, shesaid, Melanie, you're the
happiest person with a fracturethat we've ever seen.
I wasn't in any significantpain.
I told her I'm a vagus nerveexpert and she said, Oh, I got
it.
So I was able to stay calm inthe moment of it all.
But I storied it in a way thatworked for me rather than seeing
(16:50):
it as an as an obstacle.
Fearless presence, I just love that phrase.
Let's close by giving us acouple of examples of people who
you feel are naturally in theirfearless presence.
So just to give us a bit of ataste of what you mean by that.
Melanie (17:05):
Well, the first person that always comes to mind is for
me is Elton John.
He's such an incredible exampleof fearless presence.
My LGBTQ friends have beenincredibly inspiring to me over
the years because they are somuch more in their fearless
presence than I was for a longtime.
Like they really live that at alevel that's so exciting to me.
(17:27):
In the midst of my incredibleMary Magdalene story, I had a
very vivid dream about Americancomedian Leslie Jones, who was
on Saturday Night Live for manyyears.
And she's another great exampleof fearless presence.
Like she's not afraid to saywhat she thinks.
And I think comedians are alsoreally great examples of that.
(17:50):
Since the dream, I have had aparade of amazing black women
through my life, one of whomI've known for many years, but
were collaborating on somethingnew, and I've had new ones come
through.
For me, the idea of bringing mynervous system regulation and
vagus nerve work into thediversity, equity, and inclusion
space is super exciting to me.
But yeah, those are probablythe two whose fearless presence
(18:13):
I really get and really enjoy.
And, you know, the Elton Johnsbiopic really moved me in that,
in that way, seeing him comecome into his fearless presence.
It really hit me in anemotional spot.
And even though my story's verydifferent than his, there's
those archetypal elements thatwe often share in feeling like
we have to stay hiding in acloset of whatever that is.
Merilyn (18:34):
Love it.
Love it.
Anything else you want tofinish off with?
Melanie (18:37):
For women especially, don't settle, don't compromise.
Whatever we life you're living,there's so much potential for
change.
And that change really canhappen so quickly through
working with the nervous system.
We don't know how good we canfeel and how good our lives can
get because we settle forsomething that everybody else
told us was the maximum ofwhat's possible.
(19:00):
My friend made a post recentlyon her social media that was,
"Do you remember who you werebefore the world told you who
you should be?" And we're allhere to remember who we are in
our bones.
Like to really remember thosedeepest, oldest, truest memories
about ourselves.
And you don't have tocompromise that.
Merilyn (19:21):
Melanie, thank you.
I go deeper, deeper, deeperinto myself whenever I have a
conversation with you.
Melanie (19:27):
I absolutely adore chatting with you, Marilyn.
Thank you for having me.
You know I could talk to youevery day, and we would have a
never ending bucket of amazingthings to discuss.
We would.
Merilyn (19:37):
Awesome.
Thank you.
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