October 8, 2025 • 72 mins
In this episode, I interview long-time river guide and Sage of the Lower Mississippi, John Ruskey. John has been guiding and living on the Mississippi for nearly 30 years, so I start by letting him describe the Lower Mississippi River that he knows. We talk about some of the river’s characteristics that make it a special place, including its vastness, its extreme variations from high water to low water, and the diversity of life it supports. Still, John emphasizes that to get to know the river, to learn its language, we have to be willing to slow down and look at the details around us. He offers ideas on how we can encourage more people to connect with the river, overcome their fears about it, and grow into stewards. He also offers a few observations about how the river has changed over time. John closes out the interview by singing an original song inspired by the river he knows so well.
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John Ruskey (00:00):
The Mississippi, you have, it's a kind of place
that you got to slow down andlook closer to see the spiral
forms in a snail, for instance,or in the way a leaf curls as it
(00:22):
dries, or in the way a flock ofred winged blackbirds move
across a landscape. And it's notthe kind of thing that's going
to like jump out at you andcause your eyes to pop out of
(00:43):
your head. It's the kind ofthing that you got to sit still
and, or be part of and, and thenit permeates you like a in a
way, and in a way that I thinkis deeper. Actually, I'm from
I get a deeper feel from naturehere in Mississippi than I do in
(01:08):
my home state of Colorado.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:31):
Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. I'm Dean Klinkenberg,and I've been exploring the deep
history and rich culture of thepeople and places along
America's greatest river, theMississippi, since 2007. Join me
as I go deep into the charactersand places along the river, and
occasionally wander into otherstories from the Midwest and
(01:51):
other rivers. Read the episodeshow notes and get more
information on the Mississippiat
MississippiValleyTraveler.com.
Let's get going. Welcome toEpisode 68 of the Mississippi
Valley Traveler podcast. In thisepisode, I have the chance to
interview and chat with longtimeriver guide and sage of the
(02:14):
Lower Mississippi, John Ruskey.
John has been guiding and livingon the Mississippi for nearly 30
years, and I've been luckyenough to go on, no, I think
probably four river trips withhim that really changed the way
I understood and felt about theLower Mississippi. So I wanted
to have a chance to go in depthand and help us see the river as
John sees it. I start by askingJohn to describe the Lower
(02:39):
Mississippi that he knows. Fromthere, we talked some about the
river's characteristics thatmake it a special place,
including its vastness, theextreme variations from high
water to low water, and thediversity of life the river
supports still. While Johnemphasizes that to really get to
know the river, to learn itslanguage, we have to be willing
(03:01):
to slow down and look at thedetails around us. He offers
some ideas on how we canencourage more people to connect
with the river, overcome theirfears about it, and maybe even
grow into stewards. John alsooffers a few observations about
how the river has changed overtime. And then we finish out
with a song. John is also asongwriter. He closes us out
(03:24):
with an original song he'srecently written that was
inspired by the river he knowsso well.
Thanks to all of you whocontinue to show me some love
through Patreon. I deeplyappreciate your support. You can
join the community for as littleas $1 a month, which gets you
early access to all of thesepodcasts. To find out more, go
(03:48):
to patreon.com/deanklinkenberg,and you can join the community
there. Don't want to do thePatreon thing, buy me a coffee.
You can go toMississippiValleyTraveler.
com/podcast, and from there, youcan find out how to just throw a
few bucks to support my caffeinehabit at that same link at
(04:08):
MississippiValleyTraveler.com/podcast.
You'll find a list of all theprevious 67 episodes along with
the show notes for each of thoseepisodes, including the show
notes for this one. So go thereand check it out, look at a few
pictures and and find out moreabout the the people that and
places we talked about on thispodcast. Let's get on with the
interview.
(04:40):
John Ruskey is a musician,painter and writer who lives in
Clarksdale and Gulfport,Mississippi. He founded the
Quapaw Canoe Company in 1998 toprovide guiding and outfitting
to the raw, wild power andbeauty of the Mississippi River
between St Louis and the Gulf ofMexico. That same year, he
founded the Mighty QuapawsApprenticeship Program for the
(05:01):
youth of the Mississippi Delta,most of whom come from severely
distressed neighborhoods. In2011 he founded the Lower
Mississippi River Foundation foraccess education and the
betterment of public outdoorrecreation on the Middle and
Lower Mississippi Rivers. Johnis the author of the "Wild
Mil (05:17):
Paddlers Guide to the Lower Mississippi River." He has
floated and written about manyof the major rivers of North
America, including theMississippi, the Colorado, Rio
Grande, the Arkansas, Platte,Columbia, Missouri, and most
recently, the Atchafalaya. Hisguiding philosophy come comes
from Thoreau's statement "Inwilderness is the preservation
(05:38):
of the world." His dedication tothe Mississippi River earned him
the Noel Polk LifetimeAchievement Award from the
Mississippi Institute of Artsand Letters and St John's
College Award of Merit fordistinguished and meritorious
service to the United States.
John, it's a pleasure to say,welcome to the podcast.
John Ruskey (05:59):
Great to be here, especially with you, my friend.
Dean Klinkenberg (06:03):
It's always a pleasure to talk with you, John,
even though we don't get to doit nearly as often as I would
like. So I appreciate you havingsome time today. I know you're
probably getting into your busypart of the year now, as the as
the weather supposedly starts tocool, even though it hasn't done
much of that yet for us.
John Ruskey (06:20):
Yeah, we're out on the river more often than not.
So if you're going to find me ormy team, Mark "River", Ceili
"Mayfly" and River Otter and andthe rest of the team, you're
going to have to get out on thewater.
Dean Klinkenberg (06:35):
That sounds like an invitation that's too
good to pass up. So I think, youknow, we all find a way to meet
you out on the water somewhere.
I thought maybe the place tostart today would be for just to
give you a chance to describethe Lower Mississippi River that
you've come to know. I'll justleave it open ended, however you
want to do it, but I'd love tohear in your own words a
(06:57):
description of the LowerMississippi?
John Ruskey (07:02):
Well, it's almost like a mythical kingdom that
flourishes within reach ofeveryone who lives in the deep
south. But I live inClarksville, Mississippi, and
(07:23):
along with the rest of my crewhere at Quapaw Canoe Company,
Mark "River" Peoples and CeiliHale, we call her "Mayfly" and
and, and Heather Crosse "RiverOtter" and Jay Smith, he's known
as Jack Rabbit, and everyonekind of feels like I do and and
(07:50):
that is kind of similar to whatHuckleberry Finn felt, you know,
several centuries ago. And thatis that town is full of
claustrophobia and confusion andand over there on the river in
(08:16):
the kingdom of the big river, orqueendom, I should say, because
we think of her like a queen,and we're her worker bees. Is
where the beauty and the graceand the balance exist. And in
(08:38):
fact, I feel like we're livingin kind of an unreal world, and
over there is where the realityis. And what I mean by that is
that we've created aunsustainable world on this side
(09:02):
of the levee and over there,nature is continuing to thrive
in the way that nature has spentmillions, billions of years,
excuse me, as long as life hasbeen evolving on planet Earth,
(09:25):
nature has fine tuned thisplanet that we all share, which
is kind of like a spaceship thatwe all exist on. And when I say
all I don't mean all humans, Imean, all creation, all 25
million species of us andcounting. You know, we know
(09:48):
definitely the existence ofabout 5 million species. And
biologists think that there areanother 10 million out there,
and maybe double that. So weshare this, this Great Mother
Earth, with 15 million otherspecies, and we're not doing a
(10:13):
very good job of keeping thebalance and living and and being
part of everything else, and ourleadership kind of way humans
have become that the ultimateapex predator. We're at the top
of the pyramid and but contraryto what many religions say in
(10:37):
including our own ChristianBible, that that that God put us
on the earth to take care ofthis garden, contrary to that we
are, have created something thatIs is ceasing to to develop in a
(11:01):
long term sustainable way, inharmony with the way it has in
the past several million yearsof human existence, anyway, and
and so what I'm getting at isthat the Lower Mississippi
(11:23):
River, by the nature of itsextreme rises and extreme falls,
has actually created her ownbiologic refuge in which and
(11:48):
even though there are tow boats,because we move most of
America's grains up and downthat river, as well as scrap
steel and coal and petrochem anda lot of other things. Even
though they're tow boats thatuse the waters, and there are
some notable populations alongthe way, even for all that, the
(12:12):
big river is so powerful and hassuch a stronghold through her
flooding and her drought, Ishould say droughts are part of
this cycle that she has exertedultimate power over what happens
(12:35):
on the other side of the levee,a unique landscape has been
created that runs from Cairo,Illinois at the junction of the
Ohio River, 954 miles down tothe Head of Passes where the
river splits off and all thedifferent passes out to the Gulf
(12:57):
of Mexico and The Bird's FootDelta and so when you go over
the levee, you enter a landscapethat we did not control. The
flooding dictates where you canbuild, where you can't build.
(13:18):
And then on the other side ofthe coin these extreme droughts
that we keep experiencing summerafter summer, and it seems like
we've entered another one thisfall, where we've edged all the
way down to zero on our localHelena Gauge, and it went down
(13:39):
to negative four a couple yearsago, which is as low as it ever
gets around here, negative fourjust means that it's that's the
certain mark on it doesn't meanthere's no water. It just means
that it's reached a certainplace on this scale called the
Helena Gauge. There's stillenough water for the fishes and
(14:01):
the turtles and canoes. But atthat point, it becomes touch and
go whether tow boats will beable to pass through or not,
because the shoals have becomeso shallow that the normal draft
for tow boats means that they'regoing to get stuck.
And several years ago, westarted a week long trip in
(14:27):
Memphis, Tennessee with a bunchof British adventures led by
Dave Cornthwaite. And there were1000 tow boats pulled over to
the bank on the LowerMississippi River that week, and
because water's gotten so low,they couldn't continue to
travel. And so it was kind offunny, we were out there and
(14:53):
carrying on with our expeditionand jumping off the canoe into
the river in the middle of theriver in the corridor of tow
boats that were pulled up alongthe bank and and within that,
within that long landscape,it's, it's like one of the long
(15:17):
landscapes that the biologistE.O. Wilson talks about that
connects major bio regions withother major bio regions, such as
connecting the Central Americanisthmus with Patagonia. And what
(15:43):
does that well, the Amazonrainforest does, and the Andes,
they're both long landscapesthat animals can travel long
distance through. And in NorthAmerica, we have the Rocky
Mountains on one side andAppalachia on the other, and
that creates a long landscapethat connects the important
(16:07):
bioregions of the south withthose of the North. You know the
the arboreal forest and theMississippi is one of those long
landscapes along which migratingsongbirds and waterfowl travel
(16:28):
and uses their pathway. It's themajor bird pathway in North
America, but so do all manyspecies of fish and crustaceans,
such as the the freshwatershrimp and eel, the American eel
(16:56):
travels up the River, andinsects also, such as a monarch
butterfly, which sometimestravels through three
generations of the family to getdown to the mountains of Mexico
and our our roadless MississippiRiver. The River is, is the only
(17:21):
road out there, and she's theultimate highway, of course, but
she's not for the she's adifferent kind of highway, and
she's open to all creation andand in, in in that when, when we
(17:44):
go on our long distance trips,and most often, we're doing it
with our clients, people whohave hired us as expert guides,
that's what we take them overthe levee and onto the river to
(18:08):
see and experience, becausethere's no way to describe it or
even photograph it or videotapeit. You can't see it in a movie.
Mud comes pretty close, butit's, it's a thing you got to be
there to experience and theAdventures of Huckleberry Finn
(18:31):
and Mark Twain's Life on theMississippi. They come pretty
close to to illustrating thesupreme peace and connection and
feeling of freedom that you getwhen you're on those big waters.
(18:55):
And for me personally, it's theclosest I've come to feeling
like I'm exactly where I need tobe in this world and the most
connected I've felt anywhere.
And by the way, I'm a RockyMountain boy. I was born and
raised 8500 feet in the ColoradoRockies, and so I should be
finding that up in the alpinemeadows or something. But no, I
(19:21):
found it down here in thismuddy, muddy.
Dean Klinkenberg (19:28):
In the hot, muddy bottoms of the Mississippi
backwaters and islands andchannels.
John Ruskey (19:34):
Exactly.
Dean Klinkenberg (19:35):
Yeah. So, as you know, like in the 19th
century, the particularly theEuropean travel writers that
came through were notparticularly impressed with the
scenic beauty of the LowerMississippi, in particular. It
was mile after mile of floodplain forests and trees. And I
guess, you know, maybe theynever got off those boats, or
barely got off the boats, anddid get a chance to really see
(19:57):
anything else besides that, or.
What, tell us more about thatworld of the Mississippi that
they missed? You know, what isit that those cranky travel
writers missed about the beautyin the world of the Mississippi
that you get to see andexperience it on a day to day
basis?
John Ruskey (20:13):
Yeah, well, that's exactly the strength of it is
that it is. It's a it's the samething over and over and over
again. Around each bend, you seethe same creatures and the same
shapes of sandbars, and the sameway the water flows around one
island. It flows pretty similararound the next island and the
next island and the island afterthat. And they're like 230
(20:37):
numbered islands between themouth of the Ohio in Baton
Rouge. And these are bigislands, like 100, 1000s of
acres of forest and and sand andgravel bars and mud and and and
thriving with with all of theanimals and birds and fishes and
(21:01):
everything else. When we go outthere, we're visitors in their
their home, and oftentimes wedon't see evidence of any of the
mammals. But when we wake up inthe morning and walk out on the
sandbar, we call it reading themorning paper, because you see
everything that's happened thatnight. And a lot of creatures
(21:24):
are nocturnal down here, you seeeverything that's happened the
night previous by the tracks onthe sandbar, because they leave
a literal record of the coyoteand the deer and and the bobcat.
We've been seeing a lot ofbobcat and sometimes black bear,
(21:47):
and then during the daytime, wedo see more river otter and
sometimes possum, armadillo,raccoon and all those. And then
at nighttime, also the beaver.
They they're nocturnalcreatures, and they like
climbing the the muddy bank andand cutting down their favorite
(22:09):
tree, which is the willow, andbringing it down to the water's
edge and chewing it down on thewater's edge at nighttime. And
the reason they do it at thewater's edge is because that's
their escape if coyote shows upor some other creature beaver
jumps in the water and thatthat's beaver's some. So the the
(22:34):
the beauty is not like going tothe Alps or, you know, seeing
Himalaya or or the Andes, youknow, Patagonia or something.
The beauty is in the seeminglyinfinite expanse of bottomland
(22:58):
hardwood forest, that's aparadise for all creation, and
it's a paradise for paddlers.
But we're just one out of the1000s of species that thrive in
the Lower Mississippi Valley,and you know, it's similar to
(23:26):
the Spanish conquistadors whocame into North America looking
for the fabled seven cities aCibola. They were looking for
the gold, and they failed torecognize that the gold is in
the mud and the millions ofnative people who lived here and
who lived in harmony with theenvironment here, and the
(23:51):
environment itself and all of itwas like, it was like the Garden
of Eden. It was a place wherethe earth it had evolved so far
forward that everything hadfound a harmony. And it was a
continually evolving it wasn't astatic thing or like something
(24:14):
in formaldehyde or behind glassin a museum, but ever evolving
thing. And, and, of course, isstill evolving, but in a much
different way now. But, and youknow that kind of, that kind of
(24:36):
monotony, what some people mightdescribe as monotony, you might
find that also, you know, likeon the Aleutian Peninsula or
traveling up the east coastalong the mountains, they all
look pretty similar as you'redriving along, you know, and tow
(24:57):
boat pilots, when they get downin this area, they call this
stretch of river, the squiggles.
And sometimes they call it thethe Land of the Lost. And they
kind of get that feeling too,and but so did the
conservationist, TeddyRoosevelt, who used to hunt bear
(25:21):
in the Mississippi Delta. And infact, it was here that he got
his nickname teddy bear, and hefailed to, well, I don't know.
He failed to recognize the theimportance in saving something
(25:44):
that seemed infinite. You know,he protected millions of acres
of hundreds of millions of acresof lands out West, created
national parks and and, but hedidn't save a single acre of the
biggest trees. What this is howhe described what he saw in our
(26:07):
forest here. He said they werethe biggest trees in North
America outside of the WestCoast. And so it's a some people
might get the same feeling outon the open ocean, you know, the
Pacific Ocean, like it all looksthe same, and you can, you can
(26:27):
sail for months across thePacific, and everything looks
the same, but the beauty is inthe life that it is flourishing
with.
Dean Klinkenberg (26:43):
Do you think that that similarity in the
landscape has worked againstconservation in a sense that,
like you said, you look at themountains, most people find it
pretty easy to appreciate thebeauty of mountains, but I think
with a lot of rivers, it seemslike people don't automatically
have that same visceral responseto appreciating the beauty of
(27:06):
the rivers, especially parts ofrivers that have that sort of
continuity, that sameness overmile after mile. Do you agree
with that idea, and if so, doyou think that has made it
harder to conserve riverriverine worlds?
John Ruskey (27:25):
Yeah, definitely, it doesn't have that kind of
striking beauty that anyone cansee when you see the crest stone
peaks in southern Colorado, orthe San Juan Mountains of
southern Colorado or the GrandCanyon, to use another natural
landscape metaphor, theMississippi you have. It's a
(27:52):
kind of place that you got toslow down and look closer to see
the spiral forms in a snail, forinstance, or in the way a well a
leaf curls as it dries, or inthe way a flock of red winged
(28:15):
blackbirds move across thelandscape. And it's not the kind
of thing that's gonna like, jumpout at you and cause your eyes
to pop out of your head. It'sthe kind of thing that you got
to sit still and or be part ofand, and then it permeates you
(28:41):
like a in a way, and in a waythat I think is deeper actually.
I'm from Colorado, and I get adeeper feel from nature here in
Mississippi than I do in my homestate of Colorado. So yeah, like
(29:01):
it comes through you in adifferent way. And it's almost
like swimming. You know, whenyou swim, you immediately enter
a whole different world, Iguess, and that has different
sounds and completely envelopsyou, like if you swim
underwater, especially. And thesame is true for walking over a
(29:25):
riverbank and sitting down onthe banks of the river, you're
immediately in a whole differentworld than the land above the
river bank.
Dean Klinkenberg (29:36):
So I could probably answer this for you,
but I'm not going to that. Sowhat do you tell people then to
prepare them when they're comingout on the river for the first
time? What do you do to helpthem prepare for the experience
of being in this world, and whatto look for and and how to sort
of immerse themselves in thatworld and see that beauty?
John Ruskey (29:56):
We pick out particular things. Um. Uh, some
of which I've already describedto you, others being like
crinoids or agates that wash upon the gravel bars of the river,
you know, the rivers carryingeverything from Montana to New
(30:17):
York State downstream with it,and that includes all the seeds
and pieces of wood and geologyfrom all over the country. And
so some of those geologicwonders are agate that comes
from a particular place in theYellowstone River of Montana,
(30:39):
for instance. But we also findpink granite and crinoids, which
come from the the geologic eraof the of the crinoids or not,
it's on the geologic area, butthere's an era in which the
crinoids ruled the world, andthey're an ocean creature, and
(31:01):
now we find their fossils, andthey're really striking,
circular segments that are thearms of these creatures that
were attached to the bottom ofthe ocean and and that the
remainders of which are like,it's like finding a gem or
something on the on the riverwhen you find one. But the some
(31:31):
of the we tried to describe, inparticular, the beauty that we
see and Mark Rivers is real goodat this too, and experience when
we're out there, such as thegeology or the splashing of a
beaver tail, or the passing overof a flock of 1000s of White
(31:57):
Pelicans and their annualmigration, or the singing of the
owls at nighttime, or therising, as we're seeing now, of
the Milky Way after dark is nowat Zenith above the our
(32:19):
campsites out on the river withScorpius and Sagittarius on
either side of the base of theMilky Way. And from our camp, we
just saw this last night, or twonights ago, I was out with a
bunch of sixth grade girls withan annual fall camp that we do
(32:40):
with a school, MississippiSchool, and looking downstream,
we were looking right down atSagittarius resting right down
on the face of the waterdownstream of the island we were
camped on. And when you look atSagittarius, you're looking at
(33:01):
the center of the universe. Imean, excuse me, the center of
the Milky Way galaxy. And risingout of that is the is the galaxy
itself, which is kind of flowslike a river in the sky, you
know. So we pick out thoseparticular things that not
(33:25):
everyone will see the first timethey go out, or on the first day
they go out. But as guides, it'svery helpful if we can share
something that they can focus inon and be amazed by. And you got
to look, and kind of kind of useyour imagination to a certain
(33:46):
extent. But then once you startdoing that, then you look at
other things. And you can justlook at the way the water flows,
or the shape of the mud and thesand forms on the islands. And
you start seeing and one littlepiece. Once you get one little
piece, it's like learning toread the grammar of the language
(34:08):
of the river and its landscape.
And once you start to see andonce you gain the gain a little
bit of understanding of thelanguage of the river, then you
see it all around you and you,and every day that you spend on
(34:29):
it afterwards, you see more andmore and more. And pretty soon,
the days pass away like a dreamand and and life on the river
becomes like life on the raftthat that Huck and Jim
experienced when they went downthe Mississippi. It was like the
river was the the ultimatefreedom and the the ultimate
(34:53):
place to be, and you forgetabout everything else back on
land.
Dean Klinkenberg (35:01):
Hey, Dean Klinkenberg here, interrupting
myself, just wanted to remindyou that if you'd like to know
more about the MississippiRiver, check out my books. I
write the Mississippi ValleyTraveler guide books for people
who want to get to know theMississippi better. I also write
the Frank Dodge mystery seriesthat is set in places along the
Mississippi. My newest book 'TheWild Mississippi,' goes deep
(35:25):
into the world of Old Man River.
Learn about the varied andcomplex ecosystems supported by
the Mississippi, the plant andanimal life that depends on
them. And where you can go toexperience it all find any of
these wherever books are sold.
So slowing down and payingattention to detail are not
(35:46):
exactly things that we'reencouraged to do in the modern
culture, but it sounds likethose are, of course, very
important things to do to reallyfully appreciate the the
Mississippi, the world ofMississippi. I've been lucky
enough to be out on the riverwith you a few times, and my my
whole view of the LowerMississippi was completely
(36:07):
overturned and shaped by thoseexperiences with you. And I'm
grateful, and consider myselflucky to have had that
opportunity, as we did have thatchance to just sort of slow down
and pay attention to detail. Itwas so helpful to have you and
River pointing out differentthings and helping me understand
that world. What I wonder,though, like not there are a
(36:30):
whole bunch of people who arenever really going to have the
opportunity to go out in a canoewith you. How do we help people
who can't get to the river, ormaybe can't spend much time next
to the river. How do we helpthem come to that same place to
appreciate the river in thatsame way?
John Ruskey (36:48):
Well, they will have to make time. There's no
way around it. It's notsomething you can do in a little
15 minute video yoga, you know,or something you have you have
got to set aside the hours orthe days and inside of that
little piece of time is, is theopportunity that each of us have
(37:16):
in our lives to just set aside alittle piece of time for
nurturing your soul. And youcould do that anywhere. But for
those of us who live on theriver, you absolutely have to
(37:37):
make the time to make it happen,because nature's not going to
come to you. You got to go tonature and and open your eyes
and your ears and turn off yourphone and a sketchbook and
writing is sometimes helpful forsome people. I'm one of those
(37:59):
kinds of people that helps mesee when, when, when I write
things down or sketch things.
But even those two can becometools to get in the way. But all
we have in this world is time.
We're born with nothing. We'regoing to leave with nothing when
we die, and all we have is thiscertain allotment of our lives,
(38:26):
and you're not going to find ituntil you travel to the banks of
the river and get out of yourcar and walk down the bank and
participate in the life alongthe river in some way. It
(38:48):
doesn't have to be with me or myteam in a canoe or or with any
other guide. It's pretty simple.
Just find the nearest landing orstate park or I know a good
guidebook written by a podcastleader to the wild places on the
on the Mississippi River. But ifyou just open your map and start
(39:09):
looking for places where theroad goes to the river, those
are almost always great placesto start.
Dean Klinkenberg (39:18):
I agree it's harder in some places to get to
the river than in others. Ireally find, like on the upper
part of the river, it seemslike, you know, you can't spit
when you're near the riverwithout, you know, finding
access to it. But you get southof St Louis in particular, and
access gets to be a littleharder. You almost need a boat
in little places. But I was kindof wondering, like, the the area
(39:43):
where your home base is, it'salso kind of famous for the
attitudes about the river beingthis big dangerous beast, and
what have you talked about theimportance of actually getting
to the river and it seems likethat's been sort of like a
historic obstacle for a lot ofpeople in the South who have you
(40:03):
know plenty of stories about araging Mississippi, wiping out
communities and killing peopleand wiping out crops. What have
you found as a good way to sortof reach past some of those
fears and and help more peopleactually get to the river and
see it in a new way?
John Ruskey (40:21):
Well, the experience for us, the once we
get someone in our canoe and andoftentimes it's like family
reunions, and so some people areorganizing it, and others are
just going along for the ride,you know, and the school trips
we do, and youth groups andsummer camps. And the the best,
(40:48):
the best way, is just toexperience a little taste of it,
and then you want more. And anexample of that happened this
weekend. We've been we've beenproviding a fall camp for sixth
graders at a Mississippi School,and it's become like a rite of
(41:10):
passage in the school curriculumfor fifth graders becoming sixth
graders in that passage that yougo through at that age when
you're learning about yourselfand the world and starting to
make more decisions foryourself, and the school decided
that they wanted a MississippiRiver Adventure to help their
(41:35):
students travel that passage.
And we've been doing that for 13years with the same school, and
so now they're kids coming intoit who grew up with siblings who
went with us 10 years ago andtold them about all the fun they
had getting sandy and muddy andrunning around the sandbar,
(41:58):
jumping in the river andswimming and and now the kids
that are coming to us, theyexpect to get in the river.
They're not afraid of it.
They've seen pictures and heardstories for years now. And when
(42:19):
they come with us, they'reexpecting to get immersed in in
those things that,unfortunately, we're taught to
fear and to try and stay awayfrom. Most parents do not want
their kids getting in a bigwater or getting in the mud or
getting in the sand in theMississippi River, because they
(42:40):
have these preconceived notionsthat it's mud, that it's
polluted or dirty or unsafe, andanything, any natural landscape
in this world, is unsafe, if youare foolhardy about it. But we
(43:00):
tell people again and again, andwe've been doing this for 27
years, and we annually take outone to three thousand people
every year, and we've beentelling people for years and
years the most dangerous aspectof any part of this trip is your
(43:22):
highway travel getting here,because once we get on the river
in our big canoes, we've beendoing it so long, we know what
to look out for and what towhere to go, where the good
places to swim are, and to campand what to avoid and, and it's
(43:47):
worked for 27 years.
Dean Klinkenberg (43:50):
So I think part of the secret to that
success, as you describe it, asI hear it, is that you have just
been present for 27 plus years.
You've had an opportunity tobuild relationships with people
in that area, you've had achance to get some publicity and
show people that you can go outon the river safely and try to
break through some of thosemisconceptions. And then you're
those early pioneers, in asense, who went out become
(44:14):
really good spreading word ofmouth to the ones coming behind
them. So there's no quick, easyanswer to any of this is it?
It's sort of that, that slow,gradual process of just finding
a few people and getting startedand getting them out there?
John Ruskey (44:30):
Yeah. I mean, we're talking about a river that
touches the lives of 66 millionpeople. You know, when you
include the tributaries, and isone of the seven biggest rivers
in the world and the biggestriver in North America. And it's
yeah, when you nothing about theMississippi River is small or
(44:51):
easy to define or put yourfinger on, but yeah, the it
shouldn't be that way. It shouldbe that every person has this
spark of curiosity and the builtin knowledge of you know how to
approach nature that they'velearned through their
(45:14):
upbringing. But we don't havethat anymore. We're we learn to
survive in a mechanized, humanmade world in our lives, and
very few people have a intimaterelationship with the workings
(45:37):
of nature.
Dean Klinkenberg (45:40):
So I know it's been important for you from the
beginning to develop riverstewards, people who care about
the river and will look out forit. I'm just kind of curious
your thoughts about what does itmean to be a steward of the
river today?
John Ruskey (45:58):
Well, this is something that the biologist
E.O. Wilson that I brought uphis name earlier, he talks about
in his 'Half Earth," where hesays, if we're going to save the
remaining 85% of species thatare living in this world, we're
going to have to set aside halfthe earth to for them to survive
(46:20):
in. But the other interestingthing that he pointed out is
where are wildernesses workingin the world? And he found out
that it's not the places thatwe've set aside in isolation
like we do in the Rocky MountainWest our wilderness areas, but
(46:43):
they're the places across theworld, and they're commonly
found in Africa and SoutheastAsia and South America. They're
places where indigenouscommunity communities actually
live in within or on theoutskirts of that environment
and and live it in harmony withit. You know, they make their
(47:05):
livings in some, somesustainable way that involves
that landscape. And so we in ourdevelopment of river stewards of
the Mississippi River, we triedto do something similar in
(47:27):
encouraging our youth and theadults we work with what we're
we don't limit this to anybody,anyone with any interest. We
have this thing called theMighty Quapaw Apprenticeship
Program. And anyone who has asincere interest in learning
(47:49):
canoe building and navigation onthe biggest river in North
America, we teach how to safelyand healthfully travel and exist
(48:14):
in the floodplain of our bigriver, and to and for us, our
connection is as guides. We wego and then we return, and we go
and we return, but every time wego, we are sharing knowledge,
and at the same time, we'remaking income that allows us and
(48:40):
our families and our staff tosurvive another season, you
know, on the river. And so it'sbecome a self sustaining kind of
thing that necessarily, very,very, necessarily involves this
landscape that we are connectedto, and that is the floodplain
(49:01):
of the big river, and the bigriver herself and all her wild
ways so and we are not in anyunique position here where we
are, there are countless bigrivers and small rivers and and
(49:25):
mountains and canyons and oceanscapes and landscapes of all,
all sorts all around this earththat are indecipherable for
those who do not have experiencewith them, but are integral to
(49:46):
the success of the whole. Andthe whole is Mother Earth, all
of us together, none of us aregoing to be able to do it alone,
but if we all work together,then then we will, and that's
all it takes. Is. Is a workingtogether and anyone, anywhere,
(50:06):
wherever you are in this world,you could find that place, that
you find that connection, and weencourage that with others who
come to visit us to find thatplace, it that inspires you and
that you you have some knowledgeof and share it and find a way
(50:29):
that you can make it better andit can become part of your
living and the way that you andyour family can continue on
forward in this world.
Dean Klinkenberg (50:43):
Amen.
I had a chance to travel aroundAfrica this summer. We were
there for six weeks in differentparts of the southern part of
the continent, and I did seefirsthand some of those
relationships with indigenouscommunities and the natural
(51:04):
world around them, and trying tofind that right balance where
people can still meet theirneeds and make a living, but
without sacrificing theenvironment around them. And I
have a feeling this would be agreat campfire conversation some
night to go deep into all ofthat and some of the ideas
bouncing around in my head fromthat time there, but I did feel
(51:25):
like, you know, at one point, wegot to spend three days on the
Tsiribihina River in Madagascar,and it was, it was almost
shocking to an American to seethe way the river was so
integrated into the daily livesof the people who lived there
villages right next to theriver. They would move
seasonally, during the rainyseason, and the water came up,
(51:47):
and they would come back as theriver went down. They fished,
they bathed, they washed theirclothes. They farmed in the
fertile floodplains that wererecharged or reinvigorated every
year after that seasonalflooding. It was, it was an
interesting sort of look back,in a sense, at the way people
have historically lived withrivers, and a shocking contrast
(52:08):
to a particularly with theMississippi these days, but the
Missouri River as well.
John Ruskey (52:13):
Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's the way the Mississippi
used to be pre Columbian.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:19):
Yeah, so you've been, you've been doing
this for 27 years as a guide.
Have, how has the river changedin that time? What have you seen
change in the Mississippi induring those 27 years?
John Ruskey (52:39):
I well, we've seen a continuous stream of plants
flowing through which is kind ofinteresting. You know, the river
is become is not only conveysmud and sand and gravel, but it
(53:03):
also is carrying all the seedsof all the plants that drop
their seeds into the watersomewhere upstream or get washed
off the bank, come down the bigriver and and wherever the
environment is right, the seedstake root and, and, and sprout.
(53:23):
And so the tumbleweed, forinstance, has come to take root
on some of the sandbars, which,if you're familiar with the
Mississippi River sandbar, someof them are like deserts. Feel
like deserts when you get out onthem. And sure enough, they have
(53:46):
a have had, had the the rightelements to make happy the seeds
that are washed down out of theGreat Plains and tumbleweeds
have taken root. And some yearswe see some, some years we see a
lot, you know, like in the fall,they start, they they break
loose of their roots and startblowing around. And they make
(54:10):
good fire starter, by the way.
Dean Klinkenberg (54:12):
I bet.
John Ruskey (54:13):
And other plants also have, have migrated
through. Some notables includestinging nettle and lamb's foot,
which I used to see in Coloradowhen I was growing up, and, and,
(54:38):
and, of course, our warmingclimate has had a influence on
that and created the environmentthat makes it possible for
Northern plants to migratesouth. We've seen an increase in
bald eagle and what else, ibis,ibis, bald eagle, have been
(55:09):
coming from the North. People nolonger shoot them categorically,
like they used to, and DDT is nolonger used as an insecticide
and and so they've they've madea comeback in the South. When I
(55:31):
first came here, I hardly sawany bald eagle, but now we see
him almost every day. The ibis,on the other hand, the American
Ibis have been pushing northwardfrom the Gulf of Mexico. They
historically stayed within 100miles of the Gulf, but land loss
(55:59):
and habitat loss down there havecaused them to stray to other
environments and look for otherlocations for habitat and they
found suitable locations in theLower Mississippi as far north
as we are, we've been seeing afew flocks of those. And
notably, this is the biggestexample of all, the snow geese
(56:23):
which flock by the hundreds of1000s out of the North and
traditionally went down to theGulf Coast for their winter
migration. And now because ofthe same factors, settle down in
(56:49):
the biggest flocks of birds thatwe see here in the Mississippi
Delta. We see some big ones anda lot of other bird species, but
the Canadian, excuse me, snowgeese are the single biggest and
and will sometimes take overentire soybean and corn fields
(57:10):
that are laying fallow, andthey'll spend months here in The
Mississippi Delta, January,February into March, and when
they land, they'll turn a fieldof 1000s of acres white or
sometimes peppered with fowl orgeese. And when they take off,
(57:36):
it sounds and looks likesomething that I've seen on
Planet Earth. You know, whenyou're watching a migration of
wildebeest or something inAfrica, it's that size of a of a
motion of animals, you know,like 10s of 1000s of geese all
(58:01):
taken off, all at once, andcircling around overhead and and
moving through the air.
Dean Klinkenberg (58:07):
Nice.
John Ruskey (58:08):
At the same time we've seen in the past 10 years
increasing extremes of drought.
And and flood. 2011 of course,was a notable flood. But we also
had a very high water. In 2019they opened up the Bonnet Carre
(58:34):
Spillway twice in one year in2019, which has never happened.
And 2011 was the highest watersince 1927 overall. And in some
places, like Natchez, it rosehigher than it did in 1927.
Meanwhile, the the flood wasfollowed by years of drought.
(58:59):
And 2012 was a drought year, andwe've had three drought years in
a row with low water extremes.
That looks like it's happeningagain this year, even though we
finally got some water in April,it came up to 47 on the Helena
(59:22):
Gauge. So I was telling youearlier, we're down around zero
right now on the Helena Gauge.
So it's, it's literally 47 feetlower today than it was in
April. You know, people have ahard. Our clients and anyone who
goes down to the river, have ahard time wrapping their mind
around the fact that there was50 feet of water over where
(59:44):
you're standing today, on thebanks of the river, you know,
which is something like a fivestory building.
Dean Klinkenberg (59:52):
Yeah, it's crazy.
John Ruskey (59:54):
And you know, that's one of the things about
being a guide. And this goesback to our earlier
conversation, because it adds awhole new significance to your
experience when you go out tothe river and your guide tells
you, well, a lot of people arewondering what the bottom of the
Mississippi River looks like.
Well, this is it. This is whatthe bottom of the Mississippi
(01:00:16):
River was. You know, five monthsago when we had floods, we've
seen some places get wilder,like some people abandon
building sites, but we've alsoseen a lot of encroachment of
(01:00:39):
new high end hunting camps beingbuilt down on the lower
Mississippi, and a lot of newindustry going on in
northeastern Arkansas,southeastern Missouri in
particular. And it's a littleconcerning the loss of woods and
(01:01:03):
bottomland, hardwood forestfloodplain, which is our richest
biota here in North America. Ithas, we have the highest rate of
sequestration in our bottomline, hardwood forest in North
America, because the soil is sorich, and when trees grow, they
(01:01:29):
grow to abundance here in thiswonderland because of the rich
soil and the flooding of theriver. So we we get concerned
anytime we have loss, and we allwe're kind of like the beaver.
(01:01:52):
We want more water and we wantmore wetlands, and seems like
we've lost some significant wildplaces in the last 30 years. At
the same time for the experiencefor a paddler on the lower
(01:02:13):
Mississippi is essentially thesame today as it was for me the
first time I went down the riverin 1982 on a 12 by 24 foot raft.
It's pretty similar experiencetoday, and I will testify to
this, the river is clean. I swimin it every time I go out, and
(01:02:39):
I'm out 100 to 300 days a year.
This this year is going to bemaybe in the 200 number of days
I'll be out there on the river.
And every day I go out, I'm aswimmer, so I have to get in the
water. It's just in my blood andand I've never encountered water
(01:03:00):
that was to whatever to swim in,and never gotten sick from
swimming.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:03:11):
That's great.
Well, I'm kind of mindful of thetime, and I'm going to have to
run to another call here in afew minutes. So why don't we
wrap it up with a couple thingstell people where they can find
out more about what you're doingif they want to know more about
the Quapaw Canoe Company, like,what are the what are the best
places to follow what JohnRuskey is up to?
John Ruskey (01:03:31):
Well, the very best is the newsletter that I write
and have been sharing for longerthan I've run the canoe company.
Actually, it goes back to the1990s when I first moved to
Clarksdale and started exploringthe river. I started sending out
letters and emails to my friendsand family, sharing what it was
(01:03:55):
that I was seeing out on theriver and and everyone was like,
"You're kidding me. You sawthat. Oh, my God, that's
beautiful. And what else did yousee? And tell me more." And so I
started sending out, likeregular emails, and it became an
email thing that I'd send outfor years and and that became a
newsletter that we call theLower Mississippi River
(01:04:17):
Dispatch. River Time is it'sshort name, and if you Google
"River Time," it'll come upRiver Time: The Lower
Mississippi River Dispatch. It'sa substack newsletter, and
that's the very best place.
Actually, you'll you'll seephotos and artwork and writing
(01:04:41):
from my pen and Mark "River"Peoples. He's, he's a talented
writer and naturalist and mychief guide also. And we have a
website for if you're interestedin getting out on the river. We
have a website that you can findat QuapawCanoeCompany.com and
(01:05:05):
I'm not very good at socialmedia stuff, but some of my
staff is
Dean Klinkenberg (01:05:19):
All right, I'll post links to all that in
the in the show notes forincluding the substack and the
QuapawCanoeCompany.com, andwhatever I can can find on the
social media stuff. And youmentioned you've got some new
songs, and I thought we wouldjust sort of take us out with
hearing John Ruskey play one ofhis new original songs, and as
(01:05:44):
always, deep gratitude. John,it's been a pleasure, as always,
to chat with you and I thank youfor your time and for sharing
your experiences and forcreating so many new river
stewards and breaking throughthose fears of the Mississippi.
So what do you have to play forus?
John Ruskey (01:06:10):
This is a song that comes from something I wrote
into a painting that I wasworking on like 20 years ago, of
the flow of the river and cloudsabove it curling away into the
distance. And I wrote the words,the sky is a river, that it
suddenly came to me. The sky isa river. The river is sky. Don't
(01:06:35):
ask me why. Let them flow on by.
You know, seeing the parallelthat so many others have seen
the way water moves and theatmosphere moves, but it was
just words in a painting, and acouple years ago, I was looking
at that painting and was like,that's kind of neat. That might
(01:06:58):
make a good song. Sounds like aditty and a song and so this,
this, this is an ever evolvingsong, but here's how it sounds
today.
Sky is a river the river a sky.
Don't ask me why let him flow.
(01:07:31):
Let him flow. Let him flow ondown. Don't ask me why. Let him
flow on byTrain is a river. The river a
train. Don't make me explain.
(01:08:01):
Let it rain, let it rain. Let itrain. Let it rain. Let it rain.
Let it rain. Don't make meexplain. Let it rain, let it
rain.
(01:08:26):
May fly's a river. Rivers mayfly. Don't ask me why. Don't let
her die. Let her fly. Let herfly. Let her fly. Let her fly.
(01:08:48):
Don't let her die. Let her fly.
Let her fly. Let her fly.
Milky Way's a River. And theRiver's Milky Way. Don't get in
(01:09:19):
the way. Let it pray, let itpray. Let it pray. Let it pray.
Let it pray. Let it pray. Don'tget in the way. Let it pray, let
it pray.
(01:09:44):
Boy is a river, and the river'sa boy. Who plays in the water.
It's a joy. It's a joy. It's ajoy, it's a joy, it's a joy,
(01:10:06):
it's a joy. Plays in the water.
It's a joy. It's a joy.
Girl is a river. And the river'sa girl. She flows through the
(01:10:42):
eddies, curls and uncurls. Shecurls and uncurls. She curls and
Time is a river. And the riveris time. Don't make it be mine.
(01:11:04):
Let it shine, let it shine, letit shine, let it shine, let it
uncurls. And she flows throughthe eddies she curls and uncurls.
shine, let it shine. Don't makeit be mine. Let it shine, let it
shine. And a journey sublime.
Let it shine, let it shine.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:11:41):
Awesome. Thank you so much, John, appreciate
it.
Thanks for listening. If youenjoyed this episode, subscribe
to the series on your favoritepodcast app so you don't miss
out on future episodes. I offerthe podcast for free, but when
you support the show with a fewbucks through Patreon to help
(01:12:01):
keep the program going, just goto patreon.com/deanklinkenberg,
if you want to know more aboutthe Mississippi River, check out
my books. I write theMississippi Valley Traveler
guide books for people who wantto get to know the Mississippi
better. I also write the FrankDodge mystery series that's set
in places along the river. Findthem wherever books are sold.
(01:12:22):
The Mississippi Valley Travelerpodcast is written and produced
by me Dean Klinkenberg. OriginalMusic by Noah Fence. See you
next time you.
The Mississippi, you have, it's a kind of place
that you got to slow down andlook closer to see the spiral
forms in a snail, for instance,or in the way a leaf curls as it
(00:22):
dries, or in the way a flock ofred winged blackbirds move
across a landscape. And it's notthe kind of thing that's going
to like jump out at you andcause your eyes to pop out of
(00:43):
your head. It's the kind ofthing that you got to sit still
and, or be part of and, and thenit permeates you like a in a
way, and in a way that I thinkis deeper. Actually, I'm from
I get a deeper feel from naturehere in Mississippi than I do in
(01:08):
my home state of Colorado.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:31):
Welcome to the Mississippi Valley Traveler
podcast. I'm Dean Klinkenberg,and I've been exploring the deep
history and rich culture of thepeople and places along
America's greatest river, theMississippi, since 2007. Join me
as I go deep into the charactersand places along the river, and
occasionally wander into otherstories from the Midwest and
(01:51):
other rivers. Read the episodeshow notes and get more
information on the Mississippiat
MississippiValleyTraveler.com.
Let's get going. Welcome toEpisode 68 of the Mississippi
Valley Traveler podcast. In thisepisode, I have the chance to
interview and chat with longtimeriver guide and sage of the
(02:14):
Lower Mississippi, John Ruskey.
John has been guiding and livingon the Mississippi for nearly 30
years, and I've been luckyenough to go on, no, I think
probably four river trips withhim that really changed the way
I understood and felt about theLower Mississippi. So I wanted
to have a chance to go in depthand and help us see the river as
John sees it. I start by askingJohn to describe the Lower
(02:39):
Mississippi that he knows. Fromthere, we talked some about the
river's characteristics thatmake it a special place,
including its vastness, theextreme variations from high
water to low water, and thediversity of life the river
supports still. While Johnemphasizes that to really get to
know the river, to learn itslanguage, we have to be willing
(03:01):
to slow down and look at thedetails around us. He offers
some ideas on how we canencourage more people to connect
with the river, overcome theirfears about it, and maybe even
grow into stewards. John alsooffers a few observations about
how the river has changed overtime. And then we finish out
with a song. John is also asongwriter. He closes us out
(03:24):
with an original song he'srecently written that was
inspired by the river he knowsso well.
Thanks to all of you whocontinue to show me some love
through Patreon. I deeplyappreciate your support. You can
join the community for as littleas $1 a month, which gets you
early access to all of thesepodcasts. To find out more, go
(03:48):
to patreon.com/deanklinkenberg,and you can join the community
there. Don't want to do thePatreon thing, buy me a coffee.
You can go toMississippiValleyTraveler.
com/podcast, and from there, youcan find out how to just throw a
few bucks to support my caffeinehabit at that same link at
(04:08):
MississippiValleyTraveler.com/podcast.
You'll find a list of all theprevious 67 episodes along with
the show notes for each of thoseepisodes, including the show
notes for this one. So go thereand check it out, look at a few
pictures and and find out moreabout the the people that and
places we talked about on thispodcast. Let's get on with the
interview.
(04:40):
John Ruskey is a musician,painter and writer who lives in
Clarksdale and Gulfport,Mississippi. He founded the
Quapaw Canoe Company in 1998 toprovide guiding and outfitting
to the raw, wild power andbeauty of the Mississippi River
between St Louis and the Gulf ofMexico. That same year, he
founded the Mighty QuapawsApprenticeship Program for the
(05:01):
youth of the Mississippi Delta,most of whom come from severely
distressed neighborhoods. In2011 he founded the Lower
Mississippi River Foundation foraccess education and the
betterment of public outdoorrecreation on the Middle and
Lower Mississippi Rivers. Johnis the author of the "Wild
Mil (05:17):
Paddlers Guide to the Lower Mississippi River." He has
floated and written about manyof the major rivers of North
America, including theMississippi, the Colorado, Rio
Grande, the Arkansas, Platte,Columbia, Missouri, and most
recently, the Atchafalaya. Hisguiding philosophy come comes
from Thoreau's statement "Inwilderness is the preservation
(05:38):
of the world." His dedication tothe Mississippi River earned him
the Noel Polk LifetimeAchievement Award from the
Mississippi Institute of Artsand Letters and St John's
College Award of Merit fordistinguished and meritorious
service to the United States.
John, it's a pleasure to say,welcome to the podcast.
John Ruskey (05:59):
Great to be here, especially with you, my friend.
Dean Klinkenberg (06:03):
It's always a pleasure to talk with you, John,
even though we don't get to doit nearly as often as I would
like. So I appreciate you havingsome time today. I know you're
probably getting into your busypart of the year now, as the as
the weather supposedly starts tocool, even though it hasn't done
much of that yet for us.
John Ruskey (06:20):
Yeah, we're out on the river more often than not.
So if you're going to find me ormy team, Mark "River", Ceili
"Mayfly" and River Otter and andthe rest of the team, you're
going to have to get out on thewater.
Dean Klinkenberg (06:35):
That sounds like an invitation that's too
good to pass up. So I think, youknow, we all find a way to meet
you out on the water somewhere.
I thought maybe the place tostart today would be for just to
give you a chance to describethe Lower Mississippi River that
you've come to know. I'll justleave it open ended, however you
want to do it, but I'd love tohear in your own words a
(06:57):
description of the LowerMississippi?
John Ruskey (07:02):
Well, it's almost like a mythical kingdom that
flourishes within reach ofeveryone who lives in the deep
south. But I live inClarksville, Mississippi, and
(07:23):
along with the rest of my crewhere at Quapaw Canoe Company,
Mark "River" Peoples and CeiliHale, we call her "Mayfly" and
and, and Heather Crosse "RiverOtter" and Jay Smith, he's known
as Jack Rabbit, and everyonekind of feels like I do and and
(07:50):
that is kind of similar to whatHuckleberry Finn felt, you know,
several centuries ago. And thatis that town is full of
claustrophobia and confusion andand over there on the river in
(08:16):
the kingdom of the big river, orqueendom, I should say, because
we think of her like a queen,and we're her worker bees. Is
where the beauty and the graceand the balance exist. And in
(08:38):
fact, I feel like we're livingin kind of an unreal world, and
over there is where the realityis. And what I mean by that is
that we've created aunsustainable world on this side
(09:02):
of the levee and over there,nature is continuing to thrive
in the way that nature has spentmillions, billions of years,
excuse me, as long as life hasbeen evolving on planet Earth,
(09:25):
nature has fine tuned thisplanet that we all share, which
is kind of like a spaceship thatwe all exist on. And when I say
all I don't mean all humans, Imean, all creation, all 25
million species of us andcounting. You know, we know
(09:48):
definitely the existence ofabout 5 million species. And
biologists think that there areanother 10 million out there,
and maybe double that. So weshare this, this Great Mother
Earth, with 15 million otherspecies, and we're not doing a
(10:13):
very good job of keeping thebalance and living and and being
part of everything else, and ourleadership kind of way humans
have become that the ultimateapex predator. We're at the top
of the pyramid and but contraryto what many religions say in
(10:37):
including our own ChristianBible, that that that God put us
on the earth to take care ofthis garden, contrary to that we
are, have created something thatIs is ceasing to to develop in a
(11:01):
long term sustainable way, inharmony with the way it has in
the past several million yearsof human existence, anyway, and
and so what I'm getting at isthat the Lower Mississippi
(11:23):
River, by the nature of itsextreme rises and extreme falls,
has actually created her ownbiologic refuge in which and
(11:48):
even though there are tow boats,because we move most of
America's grains up and downthat river, as well as scrap
steel and coal and petrochem anda lot of other things. Even
though they're tow boats thatuse the waters, and there are
some notable populations alongthe way, even for all that, the
(12:12):
big river is so powerful and hassuch a stronghold through her
flooding and her drought, Ishould say droughts are part of
this cycle that she has exertedultimate power over what happens
(12:35):
on the other side of the levee,a unique landscape has been
created that runs from Cairo,Illinois at the junction of the
Ohio River, 954 miles down tothe Head of Passes where the
river splits off and all thedifferent passes out to the Gulf
(12:57):
of Mexico and The Bird's FootDelta and so when you go over
the levee, you enter a landscapethat we did not control. The
flooding dictates where you canbuild, where you can't build.
(13:18):
And then on the other side ofthe coin these extreme droughts
that we keep experiencing summerafter summer, and it seems like
we've entered another one thisfall, where we've edged all the
way down to zero on our localHelena Gauge, and it went down
(13:39):
to negative four a couple yearsago, which is as low as it ever
gets around here, negative fourjust means that it's that's the
certain mark on it doesn't meanthere's no water. It just means
that it's reached a certainplace on this scale called the
Helena Gauge. There's stillenough water for the fishes and
(14:01):
the turtles and canoes. But atthat point, it becomes touch and
go whether tow boats will beable to pass through or not,
because the shoals have becomeso shallow that the normal draft
for tow boats means that they'regoing to get stuck.
And several years ago, westarted a week long trip in
(14:27):
Memphis, Tennessee with a bunchof British adventures led by
Dave Cornthwaite. And there were1000 tow boats pulled over to
the bank on the LowerMississippi River that week, and
because water's gotten so low,they couldn't continue to
travel. And so it was kind offunny, we were out there and
(14:53):
carrying on with our expeditionand jumping off the canoe into
the river in the middle of theriver in the corridor of tow
boats that were pulled up alongthe bank and and within that,
within that long landscape,it's, it's like one of the long
(15:17):
landscapes that the biologistE.O. Wilson talks about that
connects major bio regions withother major bio regions, such as
connecting the Central Americanisthmus with Patagonia. And what
(15:43):
does that well, the Amazonrainforest does, and the Andes,
they're both long landscapesthat animals can travel long
distance through. And in NorthAmerica, we have the Rocky
Mountains on one side andAppalachia on the other, and
that creates a long landscapethat connects the important
(16:07):
bioregions of the south withthose of the North. You know the
the arboreal forest and theMississippi is one of those long
landscapes along which migratingsongbirds and waterfowl travel
(16:28):
and uses their pathway. It's themajor bird pathway in North
America, but so do all manyspecies of fish and crustaceans,
such as the the freshwatershrimp and eel, the American eel
(16:56):
travels up the River, andinsects also, such as a monarch
butterfly, which sometimestravels through three
generations of the family to getdown to the mountains of Mexico
and our our roadless MississippiRiver. The River is, is the only
(17:21):
road out there, and she's theultimate highway, of course, but
she's not for the she's adifferent kind of highway, and
she's open to all creation andand in, in in that when, when we
(17:44):
go on our long distance trips,and most often, we're doing it
with our clients, people whohave hired us as expert guides,
that's what we take them overthe levee and onto the river to
(18:08):
see and experience, becausethere's no way to describe it or
even photograph it or videotapeit. You can't see it in a movie.
Mud comes pretty close, butit's, it's a thing you got to be
there to experience and theAdventures of Huckleberry Finn
(18:31):
and Mark Twain's Life on theMississippi. They come pretty
close to to illustrating thesupreme peace and connection and
feeling of freedom that you getwhen you're on those big waters.
(18:55):
And for me personally, it's theclosest I've come to feeling
like I'm exactly where I need tobe in this world and the most
connected I've felt anywhere.
And by the way, I'm a RockyMountain boy. I was born and
raised 8500 feet in the ColoradoRockies, and so I should be
finding that up in the alpinemeadows or something. But no, I
(19:21):
found it down here in thismuddy, muddy.
Dean Klinkenberg (19:28):
In the hot, muddy bottoms of the Mississippi
backwaters and islands andchannels.
John Ruskey (19:34):
Exactly.
Dean Klinkenberg (19:35):
Yeah. So, as you know, like in the 19th
century, the particularly theEuropean travel writers that
came through were notparticularly impressed with the
scenic beauty of the LowerMississippi, in particular. It
was mile after mile of floodplain forests and trees. And I
guess, you know, maybe theynever got off those boats, or
barely got off the boats, anddid get a chance to really see
(19:57):
anything else besides that, or.
What, tell us more about thatworld of the Mississippi that
they missed? You know, what isit that those cranky travel
writers missed about the beautyin the world of the Mississippi
that you get to see andexperience it on a day to day
basis?
John Ruskey (20:13):
Yeah, well, that's exactly the strength of it is
that it is. It's a it's the samething over and over and over
again. Around each bend, you seethe same creatures and the same
shapes of sandbars, and the sameway the water flows around one
island. It flows pretty similararound the next island and the
next island and the island afterthat. And they're like 230
(20:37):
numbered islands between themouth of the Ohio in Baton
Rouge. And these are bigislands, like 100, 1000s of
acres of forest and and sand andgravel bars and mud and and and
thriving with with all of theanimals and birds and fishes and
(21:01):
everything else. When we go outthere, we're visitors in their
their home, and oftentimes wedon't see evidence of any of the
mammals. But when we wake up inthe morning and walk out on the
sandbar, we call it reading themorning paper, because you see
everything that's happened thatnight. And a lot of creatures
(21:24):
are nocturnal down here, you seeeverything that's happened the
night previous by the tracks onthe sandbar, because they leave
a literal record of the coyoteand the deer and and the bobcat.
We've been seeing a lot ofbobcat and sometimes black bear,
(21:47):
and then during the daytime, wedo see more river otter and
sometimes possum, armadillo,raccoon and all those. And then
at nighttime, also the beaver.
They they're nocturnalcreatures, and they like
climbing the the muddy bank andand cutting down their favorite
(22:09):
tree, which is the willow, andbringing it down to the water's
edge and chewing it down on thewater's edge at nighttime. And
the reason they do it at thewater's edge is because that's
their escape if coyote shows upor some other creature beaver
jumps in the water and thatthat's beaver's some. So the the
(22:34):
the beauty is not like going tothe Alps or, you know, seeing
Himalaya or or the Andes, youknow, Patagonia or something.
The beauty is in the seeminglyinfinite expanse of bottomland
(22:58):
hardwood forest, that's aparadise for all creation, and
it's a paradise for paddlers.
But we're just one out of the1000s of species that thrive in
the Lower Mississippi Valley,and you know, it's similar to
(23:26):
the Spanish conquistadors whocame into North America looking
for the fabled seven cities aCibola. They were looking for
the gold, and they failed torecognize that the gold is in
the mud and the millions ofnative people who lived here and
who lived in harmony with theenvironment here, and the
(23:51):
environment itself and all of itwas like, it was like the Garden
of Eden. It was a place wherethe earth it had evolved so far
forward that everything hadfound a harmony. And it was a
continually evolving it wasn't astatic thing or like something
(24:14):
in formaldehyde or behind glassin a museum, but ever evolving
thing. And, and, of course, isstill evolving, but in a much
different way now. But, and youknow that kind of, that kind of
(24:36):
monotony, what some people mightdescribe as monotony, you might
find that also, you know, likeon the Aleutian Peninsula or
traveling up the east coastalong the mountains, they all
look pretty similar as you'redriving along, you know, and tow
(24:57):
boat pilots, when they get downin this area, they call this
stretch of river, the squiggles.
And sometimes they call it thethe Land of the Lost. And they
kind of get that feeling too,and but so did the
conservationist, TeddyRoosevelt, who used to hunt bear
(25:21):
in the Mississippi Delta. And infact, it was here that he got
his nickname teddy bear, and hefailed to, well, I don't know.
He failed to recognize the theimportance in saving something
(25:44):
that seemed infinite. You know,he protected millions of acres
of hundreds of millions of acresof lands out West, created
national parks and and, but hedidn't save a single acre of the
biggest trees. What this is howhe described what he saw in our
(26:07):
forest here. He said they werethe biggest trees in North
America outside of the WestCoast. And so it's a some people
might get the same feeling outon the open ocean, you know, the
Pacific Ocean, like it all looksthe same, and you can, you can
(26:27):
sail for months across thePacific, and everything looks
the same, but the beauty is inthe life that it is flourishing
with.
Dean Klinkenberg (26:43):
Do you think that that similarity in the
landscape has worked againstconservation in a sense that,
like you said, you look at themountains, most people find it
pretty easy to appreciate thebeauty of mountains, but I think
with a lot of rivers, it seemslike people don't automatically
have that same visceral responseto appreciating the beauty of
(27:06):
the rivers, especially parts ofrivers that have that sort of
continuity, that sameness overmile after mile. Do you agree
with that idea, and if so, doyou think that has made it
harder to conserve riverriverine worlds?
John Ruskey (27:25):
Yeah, definitely, it doesn't have that kind of
striking beauty that anyone cansee when you see the crest stone
peaks in southern Colorado, orthe San Juan Mountains of
southern Colorado or the GrandCanyon, to use another natural
landscape metaphor, theMississippi you have. It's a
(27:52):
kind of place that you got toslow down and look closer to see
the spiral forms in a snail, forinstance, or in the way a well a
leaf curls as it dries, or inthe way a flock of red winged
(28:15):
blackbirds move across thelandscape. And it's not the kind
of thing that's gonna like, jumpout at you and cause your eyes
to pop out of your head. It'sthe kind of thing that you got
to sit still and or be part ofand, and then it permeates you
(28:41):
like a in a way, and in a waythat I think is deeper actually.
I'm from Colorado, and I get adeeper feel from nature here in
Mississippi than I do in my homestate of Colorado. So yeah, like
(29:01):
it comes through you in adifferent way. And it's almost
like swimming. You know, whenyou swim, you immediately enter
a whole different world, Iguess, and that has different
sounds and completely envelopsyou, like if you swim
underwater, especially. And thesame is true for walking over a
(29:25):
riverbank and sitting down onthe banks of the river, you're
immediately in a whole differentworld than the land above the
river bank.
Dean Klinkenberg (29:36):
So I could probably answer this for you,
but I'm not going to that. Sowhat do you tell people then to
prepare them when they're comingout on the river for the first
time? What do you do to helpthem prepare for the experience
of being in this world, and whatto look for and and how to sort
of immerse themselves in thatworld and see that beauty?
John Ruskey (29:56):
We pick out particular things. Um. Uh, some
of which I've already describedto you, others being like
crinoids or agates that wash upon the gravel bars of the river,
you know, the rivers carryingeverything from Montana to New
(30:17):
York State downstream with it,and that includes all the seeds
and pieces of wood and geologyfrom all over the country. And
so some of those geologicwonders are agate that comes
from a particular place in theYellowstone River of Montana,
(30:39):
for instance. But we also findpink granite and crinoids, which
come from the the geologic eraof the of the crinoids or not,
it's on the geologic area, butthere's an era in which the
crinoids ruled the world, andthey're an ocean creature, and
(31:01):
now we find their fossils, andthey're really striking,
circular segments that are thearms of these creatures that
were attached to the bottom ofthe ocean and and that the
remainders of which are like,it's like finding a gem or
something on the on the riverwhen you find one. But the some
(31:31):
of the we tried to describe, inparticular, the beauty that we
see and Mark Rivers is real goodat this too, and experience when
we're out there, such as thegeology or the splashing of a
beaver tail, or the passing overof a flock of 1000s of White
(31:57):
Pelicans and their annualmigration, or the singing of the
owls at nighttime, or therising, as we're seeing now, of
the Milky Way after dark is nowat Zenith above the our
(32:19):
campsites out on the river withScorpius and Sagittarius on
either side of the base of theMilky Way. And from our camp, we
just saw this last night, or twonights ago, I was out with a
bunch of sixth grade girls withan annual fall camp that we do
(32:40):
with a school, MississippiSchool, and looking downstream,
we were looking right down atSagittarius resting right down
on the face of the waterdownstream of the island we were
camped on. And when you look atSagittarius, you're looking at
(33:01):
the center of the universe. Imean, excuse me, the center of
the Milky Way galaxy. And risingout of that is the is the galaxy
itself, which is kind of flowslike a river in the sky, you
know. So we pick out thoseparticular things that not
(33:25):
everyone will see the first timethey go out, or on the first day
they go out. But as guides, it'svery helpful if we can share
something that they can focus inon and be amazed by. And you got
to look, and kind of kind of useyour imagination to a certain
(33:46):
extent. But then once you startdoing that, then you look at
other things. And you can justlook at the way the water flows,
or the shape of the mud and thesand forms on the islands. And
you start seeing and one littlepiece. Once you get one little
piece, it's like learning toread the grammar of the language
(34:08):
of the river and its landscape.
And once you start to see andonce you gain the gain a little
bit of understanding of thelanguage of the river, then you
see it all around you and you,and every day that you spend on
(34:29):
it afterwards, you see more andmore and more. And pretty soon,
the days pass away like a dreamand and and life on the river
becomes like life on the raftthat that Huck and Jim
experienced when they went downthe Mississippi. It was like the
river was the the ultimatefreedom and the the ultimate
(34:53):
place to be, and you forgetabout everything else back on
land.
Dean Klinkenberg (35:01):
Hey, Dean Klinkenberg here, interrupting
myself, just wanted to remindyou that if you'd like to know
more about the MississippiRiver, check out my books. I
write the Mississippi ValleyTraveler guide books for people
who want to get to know theMississippi better. I also write
the Frank Dodge mystery seriesthat is set in places along the
Mississippi. My newest book 'TheWild Mississippi,' goes deep
(35:25):
into the world of Old Man River.
Learn about the varied andcomplex ecosystems supported by
the Mississippi, the plant andanimal life that depends on
them. And where you can go toexperience it all find any of
these wherever books are sold.
So slowing down and payingattention to detail are not
(35:46):
exactly things that we'reencouraged to do in the modern
culture, but it sounds likethose are, of course, very
important things to do to reallyfully appreciate the the
Mississippi, the world ofMississippi. I've been lucky
enough to be out on the riverwith you a few times, and my my
whole view of the LowerMississippi was completely
(36:07):
overturned and shaped by thoseexperiences with you. And I'm
grateful, and consider myselflucky to have had that
opportunity, as we did have thatchance to just sort of slow down
and pay attention to detail. Itwas so helpful to have you and
River pointing out differentthings and helping me understand
that world. What I wonder,though, like not there are a
(36:30):
whole bunch of people who arenever really going to have the
opportunity to go out in a canoewith you. How do we help people
who can't get to the river, ormaybe can't spend much time next
to the river. How do we helpthem come to that same place to
appreciate the river in thatsame way?
John Ruskey (36:48):
Well, they will have to make time. There's no
way around it. It's notsomething you can do in a little
15 minute video yoga, you know,or something you have you have
got to set aside the hours orthe days and inside of that
little piece of time is, is theopportunity that each of us have
(37:16):
in our lives to just set aside alittle piece of time for
nurturing your soul. And youcould do that anywhere. But for
those of us who live on theriver, you absolutely have to
(37:37):
make the time to make it happen,because nature's not going to
come to you. You got to go tonature and and open your eyes
and your ears and turn off yourphone and a sketchbook and
writing is sometimes helpful forsome people. I'm one of those
(37:59):
kinds of people that helps mesee when, when, when I write
things down or sketch things.
But even those two can becometools to get in the way. But all
we have in this world is time.
We're born with nothing. We'regoing to leave with nothing when
we die, and all we have is thiscertain allotment of our lives,
(38:26):
and you're not going to find ituntil you travel to the banks of
the river and get out of yourcar and walk down the bank and
participate in the life alongthe river in some way. It
(38:48):
doesn't have to be with me or myteam in a canoe or or with any
other guide. It's pretty simple.
Just find the nearest landing orstate park or I know a good
guidebook written by a podcastleader to the wild places on the
on the Mississippi River. But ifyou just open your map and start
(39:09):
looking for places where theroad goes to the river, those
are almost always great placesto start.
Dean Klinkenberg (39:18):
I agree it's harder in some places to get to
the river than in others. Ireally find, like on the upper
part of the river, it seemslike, you know, you can't spit
when you're near the riverwithout, you know, finding
access to it. But you get southof St Louis in particular, and
access gets to be a littleharder. You almost need a boat
in little places. But I was kindof wondering, like, the the area
(39:43):
where your home base is, it'salso kind of famous for the
attitudes about the river beingthis big dangerous beast, and
what have you talked about theimportance of actually getting
to the river and it seems likethat's been sort of like a
historic obstacle for a lot ofpeople in the South who have you
(40:03):
know plenty of stories about araging Mississippi, wiping out
communities and killing peopleand wiping out crops. What have
you found as a good way to sortof reach past some of those
fears and and help more peopleactually get to the river and
see it in a new way?
John Ruskey (40:21):
Well, the experience for us, the once we
get someone in our canoe and andoftentimes it's like family
reunions, and so some people areorganizing it, and others are
just going along for the ride,you know, and the school trips
we do, and youth groups andsummer camps. And the the best,
(40:48):
the best way, is just toexperience a little taste of it,
and then you want more. And anexample of that happened this
weekend. We've been we've beenproviding a fall camp for sixth
graders at a Mississippi School,and it's become like a rite of
(41:10):
passage in the school curriculumfor fifth graders becoming sixth
graders in that passage that yougo through at that age when
you're learning about yourselfand the world and starting to
make more decisions foryourself, and the school decided
that they wanted a MississippiRiver Adventure to help their
(41:35):
students travel that passage.
And we've been doing that for 13years with the same school, and
so now they're kids coming intoit who grew up with siblings who
went with us 10 years ago andtold them about all the fun they
had getting sandy and muddy andrunning around the sandbar,
(41:58):
jumping in the river andswimming and and now the kids
that are coming to us, theyexpect to get in the river.
They're not afraid of it.
They've seen pictures and heardstories for years now. And when
(42:19):
they come with us, they'reexpecting to get immersed in in
those things that,unfortunately, we're taught to
fear and to try and stay awayfrom. Most parents do not want
their kids getting in a bigwater or getting in the mud or
getting in the sand in theMississippi River, because they
(42:40):
have these preconceived notionsthat it's mud, that it's
polluted or dirty or unsafe, andanything, any natural landscape
in this world, is unsafe, if youare foolhardy about it. But we
(43:00):
tell people again and again, andwe've been doing this for 27
years, and we annually take outone to three thousand people
every year, and we've beentelling people for years and
years the most dangerous aspectof any part of this trip is your
(43:22):
highway travel getting here,because once we get on the river
in our big canoes, we've beendoing it so long, we know what
to look out for and what towhere to go, where the good
places to swim are, and to campand what to avoid and, and it's
(43:47):
worked for 27 years.
Dean Klinkenberg (43:50):
So I think part of the secret to that
success, as you describe it, asI hear it, is that you have just
been present for 27 plus years.
You've had an opportunity tobuild relationships with people
in that area, you've had achance to get some publicity and
show people that you can go outon the river safely and try to
break through some of thosemisconceptions. And then you're
those early pioneers, in asense, who went out become
(44:14):
really good spreading word ofmouth to the ones coming behind
them. So there's no quick, easyanswer to any of this is it?
It's sort of that, that slow,gradual process of just finding
a few people and getting startedand getting them out there?
John Ruskey (44:30):
Yeah. I mean, we're talking about a river that
touches the lives of 66 millionpeople. You know, when you
include the tributaries, and isone of the seven biggest rivers
in the world and the biggestriver in North America. And it's
yeah, when you nothing about theMississippi River is small or
(44:51):
easy to define or put yourfinger on, but yeah, the it
shouldn't be that way. It shouldbe that every person has this
spark of curiosity and the builtin knowledge of you know how to
approach nature that they'velearned through their
(45:14):
upbringing. But we don't havethat anymore. We're we learn to
survive in a mechanized, humanmade world in our lives, and
very few people have a intimaterelationship with the workings
(45:37):
of nature.
Dean Klinkenberg (45:40):
So I know it's been important for you from the
beginning to develop riverstewards, people who care about
the river and will look out forit. I'm just kind of curious
your thoughts about what does itmean to be a steward of the
river today?
John Ruskey (45:58):
Well, this is something that the biologist
E.O. Wilson that I brought uphis name earlier, he talks about
in his 'Half Earth," where hesays, if we're going to save the
remaining 85% of species thatare living in this world, we're
going to have to set aside halfthe earth to for them to survive
(46:20):
in. But the other interestingthing that he pointed out is
where are wildernesses workingin the world? And he found out
that it's not the places thatwe've set aside in isolation
like we do in the Rocky MountainWest our wilderness areas, but
(46:43):
they're the places across theworld, and they're commonly
found in Africa and SoutheastAsia and South America. They're
places where indigenouscommunity communities actually
live in within or on theoutskirts of that environment
and and live it in harmony withit. You know, they make their
(47:05):
livings in some, somesustainable way that involves
that landscape. And so we in ourdevelopment of river stewards of
the Mississippi River, we triedto do something similar in
(47:27):
encouraging our youth and theadults we work with what we're
we don't limit this to anybody,anyone with any interest. We
have this thing called theMighty Quapaw Apprenticeship
Program. And anyone who has asincere interest in learning
(47:49):
canoe building and navigation onthe biggest river in North
America, we teach how to safelyand healthfully travel and exist
(48:14):
in the floodplain of our bigriver, and to and for us, our
connection is as guides. We wego and then we return, and we go
and we return, but every time wego, we are sharing knowledge,
and at the same time, we'remaking income that allows us and
(48:40):
our families and our staff tosurvive another season, you
know, on the river. And so it'sbecome a self sustaining kind of
thing that necessarily, very,very, necessarily involves this
landscape that we are connectedto, and that is the floodplain
(49:01):
of the big river, and the bigriver herself and all her wild
ways so and we are not in anyunique position here where we
are, there are countless bigrivers and small rivers and and
(49:25):
mountains and canyons and oceanscapes and landscapes of all,
all sorts all around this earththat are indecipherable for
those who do not have experiencewith them, but are integral to
(49:46):
the success of the whole. Andthe whole is Mother Earth, all
of us together, none of us aregoing to be able to do it alone,
but if we all work together,then then we will, and that's
all it takes. Is. Is a workingtogether and anyone, anywhere,
(50:06):
wherever you are in this world,you could find that place, that
you find that connection, and weencourage that with others who
come to visit us to find thatplace, it that inspires you and
that you you have some knowledgeof and share it and find a way
(50:29):
that you can make it better andit can become part of your
living and the way that you andyour family can continue on
forward in this world.
Dean Klinkenberg (50:43):
Amen.
I had a chance to travel aroundAfrica this summer. We were
there for six weeks in differentparts of the southern part of
the continent, and I did seefirsthand some of those
relationships with indigenouscommunities and the natural
(51:04):
world around them, and trying tofind that right balance where
people can still meet theirneeds and make a living, but
without sacrificing theenvironment around them. And I
have a feeling this would be agreat campfire conversation some
night to go deep into all ofthat and some of the ideas
bouncing around in my head fromthat time there, but I did feel
(51:25):
like, you know, at one point, wegot to spend three days on the
Tsiribihina River in Madagascar,and it was, it was almost
shocking to an American to seethe way the river was so
integrated into the daily livesof the people who lived there
villages right next to theriver. They would move
seasonally, during the rainyseason, and the water came up,
(51:47):
and they would come back as theriver went down. They fished,
they bathed, they washed theirclothes. They farmed in the
fertile floodplains that wererecharged or reinvigorated every
year after that seasonalflooding. It was, it was an
interesting sort of look back,in a sense, at the way people
have historically lived withrivers, and a shocking contrast
(52:08):
to a particularly with theMississippi these days, but the
Missouri River as well.
John Ruskey (52:13):
Yeah, wow. Yeah, that's the way the Mississippi
used to be pre Columbian.
Dean Klinkenberg (52:19):
Yeah, so you've been, you've been doing
this for 27 years as a guide.
Have, how has the river changedin that time? What have you seen
change in the Mississippi induring those 27 years?
John Ruskey (52:39):
I well, we've seen a continuous stream of plants
flowing through which is kind ofinteresting. You know, the river
is become is not only conveysmud and sand and gravel, but it
(53:03):
also is carrying all the seedsof all the plants that drop
their seeds into the watersomewhere upstream or get washed
off the bank, come down the bigriver and and wherever the
environment is right, the seedstake root and, and, and sprout.
(53:23):
And so the tumbleweed, forinstance, has come to take root
on some of the sandbars, which,if you're familiar with the
Mississippi River sandbar, someof them are like deserts. Feel
like deserts when you get out onthem. And sure enough, they have
(53:46):
a have had, had the the rightelements to make happy the seeds
that are washed down out of theGreat Plains and tumbleweeds
have taken root. And some yearswe see some, some years we see a
lot, you know, like in the fall,they start, they they break
loose of their roots and startblowing around. And they make
(54:10):
good fire starter, by the way.
Dean Klinkenberg (54:12):
I bet.
John Ruskey (54:13):
And other plants also have, have migrated
through. Some notables includestinging nettle and lamb's foot,
which I used to see in Coloradowhen I was growing up, and, and,
(54:38):
and, of course, our warmingclimate has had a influence on
that and created the environmentthat makes it possible for
Northern plants to migratesouth. We've seen an increase in
bald eagle and what else, ibis,ibis, bald eagle, have been
(55:09):
coming from the North. People nolonger shoot them categorically,
like they used to, and DDT is nolonger used as an insecticide
and and so they've they've madea comeback in the South. When I
(55:31):
first came here, I hardly sawany bald eagle, but now we see
him almost every day. The ibis,on the other hand, the American
Ibis have been pushing northwardfrom the Gulf of Mexico. They
historically stayed within 100miles of the Gulf, but land loss
(55:59):
and habitat loss down there havecaused them to stray to other
environments and look for otherlocations for habitat and they
found suitable locations in theLower Mississippi as far north
as we are, we've been seeing afew flocks of those. And
notably, this is the biggestexample of all, the snow geese
(56:23):
which flock by the hundreds of1000s out of the North and
traditionally went down to theGulf Coast for their winter
migration. And now because ofthe same factors, settle down in
(56:49):
the biggest flocks of birds thatwe see here in the Mississippi
Delta. We see some big ones anda lot of other bird species, but
the Canadian, excuse me, snowgeese are the single biggest and
and will sometimes take overentire soybean and corn fields
(57:10):
that are laying fallow, andthey'll spend months here in The
Mississippi Delta, January,February into March, and when
they land, they'll turn a fieldof 1000s of acres white or
sometimes peppered with fowl orgeese. And when they take off,
(57:36):
it sounds and looks likesomething that I've seen on
Planet Earth. You know, whenyou're watching a migration of
wildebeest or something inAfrica, it's that size of a of a
motion of animals, you know,like 10s of 1000s of geese all
(58:01):
taken off, all at once, andcircling around overhead and and
moving through the air.
Dean Klinkenberg (58:07):
Nice.
John Ruskey (58:08):
At the same time we've seen in the past 10 years
increasing extremes of drought.
And and flood. 2011 of course,was a notable flood. But we also
had a very high water. In 2019they opened up the Bonnet Carre
(58:34):
Spillway twice in one year in2019, which has never happened.
And 2011 was the highest watersince 1927 overall. And in some
places, like Natchez, it rosehigher than it did in 1927.
Meanwhile, the the flood wasfollowed by years of drought.
(58:59):
And 2012 was a drought year, andwe've had three drought years in
a row with low water extremes.
That looks like it's happeningagain this year, even though we
finally got some water in April,it came up to 47 on the Helena
(59:22):
Gauge. So I was telling youearlier, we're down around zero
right now on the Helena Gauge.
So it's, it's literally 47 feetlower today than it was in
April. You know, people have ahard. Our clients and anyone who
goes down to the river, have ahard time wrapping their mind
around the fact that there was50 feet of water over where
(59:44):
you're standing today, on thebanks of the river, you know,
which is something like a fivestory building.
Dean Klinkenberg (59:52):
Yeah, it's crazy.
John Ruskey (59:54):
And you know, that's one of the things about
being a guide. And this goesback to our earlier
conversation, because it adds awhole new significance to your
experience when you go out tothe river and your guide tells
you, well, a lot of people arewondering what the bottom of the
Mississippi River looks like.
Well, this is it. This is whatthe bottom of the Mississippi
(01:00:16):
River was. You know, five monthsago when we had floods, we've
seen some places get wilder,like some people abandon
building sites, but we've alsoseen a lot of encroachment of
(01:00:39):
new high end hunting camps beingbuilt down on the lower
Mississippi, and a lot of newindustry going on in
northeastern Arkansas,southeastern Missouri in
particular. And it's a littleconcerning the loss of woods and
(01:01:03):
bottomland, hardwood forestfloodplain, which is our richest
biota here in North America. Ithas, we have the highest rate of
sequestration in our bottomline, hardwood forest in North
America, because the soil is sorich, and when trees grow, they
(01:01:29):
grow to abundance here in thiswonderland because of the rich
soil and the flooding of theriver. So we we get concerned
anytime we have loss, and we allwe're kind of like the beaver.
(01:01:52):
We want more water and we wantmore wetlands, and seems like
we've lost some significant wildplaces in the last 30 years. At
the same time for the experiencefor a paddler on the lower
(01:02:13):
Mississippi is essentially thesame today as it was for me the
first time I went down the riverin 1982 on a 12 by 24 foot raft.
It's pretty similar experiencetoday, and I will testify to
this, the river is clean. I swimin it every time I go out, and
(01:02:39):
I'm out 100 to 300 days a year.
This this year is going to bemaybe in the 200 number of days
I'll be out there on the river.
And every day I go out, I'm aswimmer, so I have to get in the
water. It's just in my blood andand I've never encountered water
(01:03:00):
that was to whatever to swim in,and never gotten sick from
swimming.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:03:11):
That's great.
Well, I'm kind of mindful of thetime, and I'm going to have to
run to another call here in afew minutes. So why don't we
wrap it up with a couple thingstell people where they can find
out more about what you're doingif they want to know more about
the Quapaw Canoe Company, like,what are the what are the best
places to follow what JohnRuskey is up to?
John Ruskey (01:03:31):
Well, the very best is the newsletter that I write
and have been sharing for longerthan I've run the canoe company.
Actually, it goes back to the1990s when I first moved to
Clarksdale and started exploringthe river. I started sending out
letters and emails to my friendsand family, sharing what it was
(01:03:55):
that I was seeing out on theriver and and everyone was like,
"You're kidding me. You sawthat. Oh, my God, that's
beautiful. And what else did yousee? And tell me more." And so I
started sending out, likeregular emails, and it became an
email thing that I'd send outfor years and and that became a
newsletter that we call theLower Mississippi River
(01:04:17):
Dispatch. River Time is it'sshort name, and if you Google
"River Time," it'll come upRiver Time: The Lower
Mississippi River Dispatch. It'sa substack newsletter, and
that's the very best place.
Actually, you'll you'll seephotos and artwork and writing
(01:04:41):
from my pen and Mark "River"Peoples. He's, he's a talented
writer and naturalist and mychief guide also. And we have a
website for if you're interestedin getting out on the river. We
have a website that you can findat QuapawCanoeCompany.com and
(01:05:05):
I'm not very good at socialmedia stuff, but some of my
staff is
Dean Klinkenberg (01:05:19):
All right, I'll post links to all that in
the in the show notes forincluding the substack and the
QuapawCanoeCompany.com, andwhatever I can can find on the
social media stuff. And youmentioned you've got some new
songs, and I thought we wouldjust sort of take us out with
hearing John Ruskey play one ofhis new original songs, and as
(01:05:44):
always, deep gratitude. John,it's been a pleasure, as always,
to chat with you and I thank youfor your time and for sharing
your experiences and forcreating so many new river
stewards and breaking throughthose fears of the Mississippi.
So what do you have to play forus?
John Ruskey (01:06:10):
This is a song that comes from something I wrote
into a painting that I wasworking on like 20 years ago, of
the flow of the river and cloudsabove it curling away into the
distance. And I wrote the words,the sky is a river, that it
suddenly came to me. The sky isa river. The river is sky. Don't
(01:06:35):
ask me why. Let them flow on by.
You know, seeing the parallelthat so many others have seen
the way water moves and theatmosphere moves, but it was
just words in a painting, and acouple years ago, I was looking
at that painting and was like,that's kind of neat. That might
(01:06:58):
make a good song. Sounds like aditty and a song and so this,
this, this is an ever evolvingsong, but here's how it sounds
today.
Sky is a river the river a sky.
Don't ask me why let him flow.
(01:07:31):
Let him flow. Let him flow ondown. Don't ask me why. Let him
flow on byTrain is a river. The river a
train. Don't make me explain.
(01:08:01):
Let it rain, let it rain. Let itrain. Let it rain. Let it rain.
Let it rain. Don't make meexplain. Let it rain, let it
rain.
(01:08:26):
May fly's a river. Rivers mayfly. Don't ask me why. Don't let
her die. Let her fly. Let herfly. Let her fly. Let her fly.
(01:08:48):
Don't let her die. Let her fly.
Let her fly. Let her fly.
Milky Way's a River. And theRiver's Milky Way. Don't get in
(01:09:19):
the way. Let it pray, let itpray. Let it pray. Let it pray.
Let it pray. Let it pray. Don'tget in the way. Let it pray, let
it pray.
(01:09:44):
Boy is a river, and the river'sa boy. Who plays in the water.
It's a joy. It's a joy. It's ajoy, it's a joy, it's a joy,
(01:10:06):
it's a joy. Plays in the water.
It's a joy. It's a joy.
Girl is a river. And the river'sa girl. She flows through the
(01:10:42):
eddies, curls and uncurls. Shecurls and uncurls. She curls and
Time is a river. And the riveris time. Don't make it be mine.
(01:11:04):
Let it shine, let it shine, letit shine, let it shine, let it
uncurls. And she flows throughthe eddies she curls and uncurls.
shine, let it shine. Don't makeit be mine. Let it shine, let it
shine. And a journey sublime.
Let it shine, let it shine.
Dean Klinkenberg (01:11:41):
Awesome. Thank you so much, John, appreciate
it.
Thanks for listening. If youenjoyed this episode, subscribe
to the series on your favoritepodcast app so you don't miss
out on future episodes. I offerthe podcast for free, but when
you support the show with a fewbucks through Patreon to help
(01:12:01):
keep the program going, just goto patreon.com/deanklinkenberg,
if you want to know more aboutthe Mississippi River, check out
my books. I write theMississippi Valley Traveler
guide books for people who wantto get to know the Mississippi
better. I also write the FrankDodge mystery series that's set
in places along the river. Findthem wherever books are sold.
(01:12:22):
The Mississippi Valley Travelerpodcast is written and produced
by me Dean Klinkenberg. OriginalMusic by Noah Fence. See you
next time you.
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